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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Harotak
THE FINAL STAND
The Final Stand.
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Posted - 2009.09.12 17:45:00 -
[181]
Edited by: Harotak on 12/09/2009 17:49:58
 Originally by: Verlokiraptor
Easy way to factor in 25% resists = check shield ehp or recharge in eft, stick it into calculator and divide by 3. Then add that.
Or simply divide by .75
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
But the Ashimmu lost two slots :(
I still has a slot on the Phantasm though, not to mention more effective turrets, and extra bonuses for neuts and webs.
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Master Akira
Child Head Injury and Laceration Doctors
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Posted - 2009.09.12 17:48:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Ferocious FeAr
Originally by: Master Akira
You can easily get a +1000 dps passive tank or a 250+k EHP buffer on a rattlesnake now without much :effort:. Haven't run the numbers, but with a 7th mid and a 25% resist bonus it will be pretty awesome.
I don't share the "BWWHAAAA GIVE IT ROF BONUS" cries but I'd like a 5th launcher hardpoint to kinda guarantee it will have at least torp raven dps ;)
Why buy the rattlesnake, the CNR will be cheaper and can pump out 1.2k without any issues. You can get the same type of EHP on the CNR.
Ehmm not exactly, you lack slots and base shields to get to the same level. Also, AFTER the changes, the Rattlesnake will get even MORE ehp and/or tank, just not sure if it will come close to the 500k ehp/2000 dps they are mentioning above.
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Ferocious FeAr
THE FINAL STAND
The Final Stand.
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Posted - 2009.09.12 17:55:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Master Akira
Originally by: Ferocious FeAr
Originally by: Master Akira
You can easily get a +1000 dps passive tank or a 250+k EHP buffer on a rattlesnake now without much :effort:. Haven't run the numbers, but with a 7th mid and a 25% resist bonus it will be pretty awesome.
I don't share the "BWWHAAAA GIVE IT ROF BONUS" cries but I'd like a 5th launcher hardpoint to kinda guarantee it will have at least torp raven dps ;)
Why buy the rattlesnake, the CNR will be cheaper and can pump out 1.2k without any issues. You can get the same type of EHP on the CNR.
Ehmm not exactly, you lack slots and base shields to get to the same level. Also, AFTER the changes, the Rattlesnake will get even MORE ehp and/or tank, just not sure if it will come close to the 500k ehp/2000 dps they are mentioning above.
lol....you obviously aren't fitting it corretly, I get 300k EHP without vulture/tengu in gang. I also get 1750 overloaded DPS. Again, why should I be flying a severly overpriced dom...rattlesnake when the CNR costs less and does more volley damage MIND YOU, the DPS can't be killed unlike the Rattlesnake that is going to fully depend on its drones for its damage.
Right, anyone here that thinks that the rattlesnake has got buffed is out of their mind.
__________________
Built like a Rokh |
Anathema Matou
Moonmaiden Ltd.
Avateas Blessed
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Posted - 2009.09.12 17:59:00 -
[184]
Hey, it's a Gurista boat... missiles? Never heard of that, let's give them drones!
So yea, I do have some trouble following the reasoning behind the proposed new Rattlesnake. Will Gurista commanders start using drones post-Dominion?
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Verlokiraptor
All Around Research Inc
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Posted - 2009.09.12 17:59:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Harotak
Edited by: Harotak on 12/09/2009 17:49:58
Originally by: Verlokiraptor
Easy way to factor in 25% resists = check shield ehp or recharge in eft, stick it into calculator and divide by 3. Then add that.
Or simply divide by .75
Doesn't work for total ehp though, then you have to re-add the armor and hull. Might be kinda irrelevant depending on the fit, but it still counts.
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.12 18:02:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Ferocious FeAr
Right, anyone here that thinks that the rattlesnake has got buffed is out of their mind.
Originally by: CCP
ò Bonuses: pirate: 50% to cruise and torpedo missile velocity, Caldari battleship: +5% to all shield resistances per level, Gallente battleship: +10% to drone damage and hitpoints per level
IMO, pirate bonus needs to goto 50% ROF, and leave it with 4 launchers (and no range bonus). Well, a 5th launcher would make it really nice... def not OP next to the other ships mentioned here.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Arec Bardwin
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Posted - 2009.09.12 18:05:00 -
[187]
epic boost patch 
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.12 18:06:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
IMO, pirate bonus needs to goto 50% ROF, and leave it with 4 launchers (and no range bonus). Well, a 5th launcher would make it really nice... def not OP next to the other ships mentioned here.
-Liang
50% rof = 8 effective laucnhers (same as normal raven). This means around 1000dps with torps plus another 480 dps from ogres. Umm... yeah.
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LtDan IceCream
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Posted - 2009.09.12 18:08:00 -
[189]
please give the nightmare either an extra high-utility slot or a 125m3 drone bay/125 drone bandwidth to keep it in line with the very nice, new BR ships.
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L0nz0p
Insurgent New Eden Tribe
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.09.12 18:09:00 -
[190]
why nerf the hp of the phantasm?
i hate you ccp! >_<
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Lili Lu
Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships
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Posted - 2009.09.12 18:10:00 -
[191]
Gurista ships too powerful, especially for pve. Drones and missiles? Bigger drones bay than a domi?
Just wow! Who did your balancing on this. Hopefully this is not one of those changes that will not be adjusted like you like to do.
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Harotak
THE FINAL STAND
The Final Stand.
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Posted - 2009.09.12 18:13:00 -
[192]
Edited by: Harotak on 12/09/2009 18:14:55
Nightmare and Phantasm both need an extra med slot and a shield resist bonus instead of a tracking bonus. They are supposed to be caldari amarr hybrids after all. Even with those changes a vindy or bhaal would still **** all over the nightmare 1v1.
Originally by: L0nz0p
why nerf the hp of the phantasm?
i hate you ccp! >_<
Especially when the Ashimu will get MORE turret damage, a hugely overpowering web bonus, and a neut bonus, while the phanasm is stuck with all turret bonuses (and still having less effective turrets) and one less module slot.
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Lili Lu
Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships
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Posted - 2009.09.12 18:18:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Ferocious FeAr
Right, anyone here that thinks that the rattlesnake has got buffed is out of their mind.
YES
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: CCP
ò Bonuses: pirate: 50% to cruise and torpedo missile velocity, Caldari battleship: +5% to all shield resistances per level, Gallente battleship: +10% to drone damage and hitpoints per level
IMO, pirate bonus needs to goto 50% ROF, and leave it with 4 launchers (and no range bonus). Well, a 5th launcher would make it really nice... def not OP next to the other ships mentioned here.
-Liang
And Liang has lost his mind. But then we knew that anyway  
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Harotak
THE FINAL STAND
The Final Stand.
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Posted - 2009.09.12 18:22:00 -
[194]
Lose the resist bonus on the Rattler and add a 20% per level bonus to kinetic missile damage.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.09.12 18:22:00 -
[195]
Really fun stuff. Overall I think that it's a solid start. Not much to say that hasn't already been said before at the moment. The Bhaalgorn and Rattlesnake look really impressive. I know I'll be buying one of each for sure. The Mach is a little light IMO but if you give it BC level scan res then you'd effectively have a BC with respect to speed/agility/lock speed while having BS level DPS/tank/cap, which would make it pretty unique and fun to use.
The Vindicator? I'm just not that impressed. It doesn't do anything that my Hype/Kronos doesn't already do. It's a Kronos with no tank but has it's sensor strength returned. 8 guns are nice, but you're looking at twice the cap use per second when compared to the Kronos, plus twice the ammo consumption. Is the Vindi better than it is currently? Yes. It it as impressive and the Bhaal or Rattlesnake? No.
Cruisers- wow. Gila is insane. 400m3? Really? Keep it, I'll be buying one. Ashimmu is looking really good. Daredevil looks epic.
I'm looking forward to the Vindicator being buffed a bit more. If a damage bonus replaced the tracking bonus, I think it'd be set. The Sansha stuff looks really good. The Nightmare buff is pretty awesome. TBH I'm not expecting much with respect to the Vindi being as good as the rest of the BS, but we'll see. The Bhaal will be awesome, as will the Rattlesnake and Nightmare.
--
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tier 5 Battleships
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.09.12 18:28:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: Manu Hermanus
Originally by: Lijhal
why does the Vindicator and the Machariel (both 8/5/7) have 20 slots overall and the bhaalgorn (7/5/7) and rattlesnake (6/7/6) only 19 ?
all other frigs (10) and cruiser (15) have the same amount of slots, so why not the battleships ?
the rattlesnake has a large drone bay and drone damage bonus -1 slot
the bhaal gets a 100% damage bonus so -1 slot
But the Ashimmu lost two slots :(
that doesn't have much to do with anything I said.
Not an ashummu fan, wrote it off as hard to fit/expensive death trap a while back. although it did gain a 100% damage bonus so -1 slot, as for the other slot not sure why it lost that.
and the navy domi is fine as is, 6 turrets + 4 slot shield tank + 2 navy omnis + 7 lows for damage mods, tracking mods, and/or cap mods. or can be armor tanked with 3 omnis + slots for tracking comps/target painters. although the rig calibration is a bit meh, but that is what you get with faction ships. if you need a better afk ship then a domi/ishtar you are just asking for too much. tbh I would really really love a 1k dps domi with 5 garde IIs but can you say op?
although I would kinda like to see they myrm and eos get their drone bays back.
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Harotak
THE FINAL STAND
The Final Stand.
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Posted - 2009.09.12 18:29:00 -
[197]
Edited by: Harotak on 12/09/2009 18:30:13
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
I'm looking forward to the Vindicator being buffed a bit more. If a damage bonus replaced the tracking bonus, I think it'd be set.
Ohhhh... YES PLEASE!
I'll take one Vindy, a Gist-X X-L, an officer Invuln, and a side of blue pill please. The QQ from Amarr will be heard all the way to Decon.
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Master Akira
Child Head Injury and Laceration Doctors
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Posted - 2009.09.12 18:31:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Ferocious FeAr
lol....you obviously aren't fitting it corretly, I get nearly 350k EHP overloaded without vulture/tengu in gang. I also get 1750 overloaded DPS. Again, why should I be flying a severly overpriced dom...rattlesnake when the CNR costs less and does more volley damage MIND YOU, the DPS can't be killed unlike the Rattlesnake that is going to fully depend on its drones for its damage.
Right, anyone here that thinks that the rattlesnake has got buffed is out of their mind.
Lol u mad?
I know what kind of setup you used for the 350k EHP figure. No MWD, no tackle and overheating. That gives like 385k EHP for the actual Rattlesnake.
Now try to use that same setup on the proposed rattlesnake, with a 7th mid and 25% more resists, tell me if the CNR can have that EHP. Yeah, you lose some dps from no ROF bonus and less launchers, but still should be like 1000 dps AND able to fit a couple of heavy neuts.
On a less fail fitting with MWD and tackle, it still should have great amounts of buffer.
Also, maybe some ppl is out of their minds for thinking this is a buff for the rattle, but only fools fail to adapt ;)
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RedSplat
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Posted - 2009.09.12 18:32:00 -
[199]
Edited by: RedSplat on 12/09/2009 18:37:07
Some Dev must own several hundred Gilas!
Rattler is now the ultimate care bear boat.
If you want to improve it, change the Pirate Bonus to a mixed explosion velocity and sig radius factor bonus and undo some of the missile nerf for that ship.
Dont give it a torp damage increase for christs sake, 5 Bonus'd heavy drones and a tank like that with the jump in damage output would be seriously op (like the Gila )
Machariel probably needs a serious increase in agility and speed/decreased Hull mass if you don't want to give it an 8th turret. Keep the falloff Bonus, Minmatar really need it thanks to the ****ty hit degradation in falloff that needs tweaking.
Vindicator: 7.5% tracking when you already have a web strength bonus? Seems really off to me, its not like you have trouble hitting things with Electrons and a 7.5% tracking bonus. 
LOVE the New Ashimmu, one hell of a change from its previous state.
Leave the Phantasm alone :(
Not sure about the Bhaalgorn.
Originally by: Endless Subversion
I really, really think reintroducing 90% webs on like 5 ships isn't a good idea.
Otherwise it's nice to see some really cool changes
That i don't mind- you aren't going to see many of them around and prices will probably stabilize around 40 mil for the frigates alone.
HOWEVER,
CCP just made the Hyena redundant.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep.
I am always here.
Watching.
Waiting.
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T Pain
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Posted - 2009.09.12 18:32:00 -
[200]
Edited by: T Pain on 12/09/2009 18:34:58
ok i like the gila but i mean come on it gets a bigger drone bay then the myrmidon more drone bandwidth and such. its stupid imo. the gila should get the 75m bandwidth and the myrmidon get 125 bandwidth and the 400m3 drone bay since its a DRONE DEPENDABLE ship w/ drone damage bonus. and yes i know the gila gets the drone bonus stuff but give it like a 200m3 drone bay so it doesnt match the rattler since its a cruiser
thats my thought
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Endless Subversion
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.09.12 18:33:00 -
[201]
I really, really think reintroducing 90% webs on like 5 ships isn't a good idea.
Otherwise it's nice to see some really cool changes
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Harotak
THE FINAL STAND
The Final Stand.
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Posted - 2009.09.12 18:35:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Master Akira
I know what kind of setup you used for the 350k EHP figure. No MWD, no tackle and overheating. That gives like 385k EHP for the actual Rattlesnake.
Now try to use that same setup on the proposed rattlesnake, with a 7th mid and 25% more resists, tell me if the CNR can have that EHP. Yeah, you lose some dps from no ROF bonus and less launchers, but still should be like 1000 dps AND able to fit a couple of heavy neuts.
Oh wow, a whole 1k dps. That extra eHP just means you get a couple more minutes for your multi billion isk loss to sink in before it explodes because you cant kill the people killing you first.
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Glach Duwat
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Posted - 2009.09.12 18:36:00 -
[203]
CCP - Love the changes.
The philosophy with Faction ships is that they are expensive toys. These are not going to become FOTM for your average Roam. So just because they may be significantly better than T1 counterparts, and for the most part better than their T2 counterparts, does not necessarily mean that T1 and T2 are obsolete. They will still get plenty of flight time.
Secondly. They are a huge target. Most pvp'rs see faction ships on scan and start salivating. Rightly so. Ganking Faction ships is great fun.
The boosts mean that now you have a good chance to actually use this in PvP and get out alive, or at least give it the potential to be good enough to be worth the risk.
Unless CCP suddenly decide to add Pirate Factions to FW, and then add an LP store that makes pirate ship enthusiasts cream themselves, I do not think these will become cheap.
These ships will remain to be an isk sink for the rich. At least now, they have some bite to go with their bark.
The biggest downside is, Powerful alliances that populate NPC space, particularly GoonSwarm and Pandemic Legion (due to holding sov atm) will get a boost to their already significantly rich space.
This may be balanced by the changing sov system. Also, this gives Mission Running carebears a place in alliances. More so than they are already. Which is a boost to Guerilla 0.0 warfare.
Everyone loves sending Recon gangs to gank other alliances Carebears. 
I would think that the changes should be welcomed.
Though 90% webs make my nano F*gging ships cringe at the thought of overheated faction webs... But acceptable risk.
As to the pirate ships overtaking the empire faction ships... Keep in mind access to empire faction ships is significantly higher than access to pirate ships. Fleet Firetails will be easier to get your hands on than a Dramiel. Etc etc etc.
<3 the changes, <3 CCP. Don't stop believin' in yourselves.
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.09.12 18:38:00 -
[204]
Originally by: RedSplat
Edited by: RedSplat on 12/09/2009 18:37:07
Some Dev must own several hundred Gilas!
No I'm guessing some csm guy owns about several hundred gilas
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RedSplat
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Posted - 2009.09.12 18:39:00 -
[205]
Edited by: RedSplat on 12/09/2009 18:40:15
Originally by: Harotak
Oh wow, a whole 1k dps. That extra eHP just means you get a couple more minutes for your multi billion isk loss to sink in before it explodes because you cant kill the people killing you first.
The only people using these BS will be either Missionrunners or people fighting off station or gate in Empire.
You know this is the likely scenario.
Originally by: Manu Hermanus
No I'm guessing some csm guy owns about several hundred gilas
I cant discuss the nature of his transgressions here but i think you will find that is not the case if you start digging where CCP cant censor and ban people discussing Larks naughty acts.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep.
I am always here.
Watching.
Waiting.
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.12 18:39:00 -
[206]
Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 12/09/2009 18:46:08
Just one question - who in their right mind figured it'd be a good idea to give a Gila a bigger drone bay than a Dominix (or equivalent to a Navy Domi IIRC), and why aren't they boosting ships like the Navy Vexor, Myrmidon, and Dominix with Drone Bays of the Gods? (And don't give the "it's a rare piwat ship bla bla bla" - the fact of the matter is it's a cruiser with a marginally better drone ability than the current target of drone whinage the Ishtar. Cost is a balancing factor, but not enough of one to counteract that ...)
(Also on that note, if it's meant to mimic an Ishtar, fine, but then why isn't it using a bonus on drone bay like the Ishtar, Worm, and Ishkur, and why does it have a good deal more CPU than an Ishtar? Screw missiles, I might just get one as a sentry sniping platform ...)
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.09.12 18:42:00 -
[207]
/me suspects a CCP experiment to show us what insanely overpowered ships are required to please us -.-
and then there's the machariel
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putting the gist back into logistics |
RedSplat
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Posted - 2009.09.12 18:47:00 -
[208]
Edited by: RedSplat on 12/09/2009 18:47:06
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
Just one question - who in their right mind figured it'd be a good idea to give a Gila a bigger drone bay than a Dominix (or equivalent to a Navy Domi IIRC), and why aren't they boosting ships like the Navy Vexor, Myrmidon, and Dominix with Drone Bays of the Gods?
Comparing it to the Myrmidon its pretty farcical imo; esp considering the moronic bandwidth of the Myrm.
Oh and also,
Why is it, AGAIN, Minmatar have the least promising ships?
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep.
I am always here.
Watching.
Waiting.
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.12 18:48:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
50% rof = 8 effective laucnhers (same as normal raven). This means around 1000dps with torps plus another 480 dps from ogres. Umm... yeah.
CNR has 9.33 eff launchers + 160 DPS from drones (I don't believe in 2/2/1).
Raven has 8 eff launchers + 160 DPS from drones.
Rattler 8 eff launchers + 475 DPS from drones.
I'm just not seeing a problem here.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.09.12 18:50:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
50% rof = 8 effective laucnhers (same as normal raven). This means around 1000dps with torps plus another 480 dps from ogres. Umm... yeah.
CNR has 9.33 eff launchers + 160 DPS from drones (I don't believe in 2/2/1).
Raven has 8 eff launchers + 160 DPS from drones.
Rattler 8 eff launchers + 475 DPS from drones.
I'm just not seeing a problem here.
-Liang
You are not, CCP will. Read this as: wishful thinking.
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