I'm not going to get into a "referendum vs democratically elected representative" debate, but I would suggest that if your concerns are:

a) Goon influence
b) Misrepresentation of people who don't come to the forums

Then you'd be naive to think asking people to vote on issues would be conducive to that aim. If you don't think GSF could get a landslide victory on every vote they want pushed then you need to look at the CSM elections.

Sorry mate but you are missing a trick here - its not about forcing fairness through mechanics, its about not PREVENTING the defender from evening the odds itself. Its absolutely in keeping with the Eve sandbox philosophy that the outcome of a war is down to player actions, metagaming (i.e. finding the right allies, paying them, etc) rather than incredibly restrictive mechanics that FORCE the defender to fight vastly outnumbered or stump up enormous amounts of cash.

You arent introducing forced fairness by implementing Jade's proposals, you are giving the players the tools needed to ensure fairness or unfairness as they see fit. Most, maybe even all empire corporations wont have the allies or isk to buy them necessary to match, say, Goonswarm's numbers man for man - there aren't many situations where this will make things "fair" but what it will do is stop actively forcing them to accept the unfair position (i.e. that they cant bring in more allies or have their friends wardec back because the mechanics make it prohibitively expensive to do so).

Basically the way you are proposing it means a large alliance can wardec whichever small entities they want and are protected from being wardecced back or from allies joining the fight. The numbers restrictions only hurt the defending side!


There isn't really any real risk for a 5000 man alliance wardeccing a 50 man corp. Even if they punch 10x harder than expected this is still a drop in the ocean to the 5000 man alliance. Meanwhile the 50 man corp can neither bring in significant numbers of allies (unless it just invites in one super-massive ally), nor can it get its friends to wardec the 5000 man alliance withou incurring what will be a prohibitively high cost for most small entities.

Ok just one thing

A lot of you seem to think that goonswarms numbers are somehow unfair.

Well they are not, they weren't given those numbers, they accuired those numbers through a lot of work. Its not easy to hold an alliance like that together.

The basic idea that a 50 man corp should be able to fight a 5000 man alliance is just silly.. They will and SHOULD get crushed in any normal fight. They could however manage to get a very high kill/loss ratio with some clever tactics and guerrilla warfare..


Eve isn't fair, Its not supposed to be fair. The goons have massed thousands of players together and now they reap the benefits from that achievement, Deal with it?

Nothing unfair about it. Nothing unfair about bringing in 5000 of your bestest buds either... Wardec'ing Bloggers because they posted things about mittens during the election?

Guess GSF / CFC is taking Eve pretty seriously nowadays...

Nope, nothing unfair about that either.. Its not nice..

But not unfair.

Yes it is, otherwise they wouldn't be changing it. It's not fair that you and all of your closest supporters can dog-pile and cause an unexpected punch to the groin that was completely unsuspecting and caught the aggressor completely unaware because it was completely unintended. That's why they're changing it, it's not fair that they get in for free.

Hence, yanno, the billions of isk they're now going to have to pay -every two weeks- where as the aggressor will never have to pay more than half a billion. Makes -total- sense now and it's completely fair and balanced.

If you haven't figured it out now this entire response is entirely sarcasm.

Ok just one thing

A lot of you seem to think that goonswarms numbers are somehow unfair.

Well they are not, they weren't given those numbers, they accuired those numbers through a lot of work. Its not easy to hold an alliance like that together.

The basic idea that a 50 man corp should be able to fight a 5000 man alliance is just silly.. They will and SHOULD get crushed in any normal fight. They could however manage to get a very high kill/loss ratio with some clever tactics and guerrilla warfare..


Eve isn't fair, Its not supposed to be fair. The goons have massed thousands of players together and now they reap the benefits from that achievement, Deal with it?

Yet one of the stated reasons for nerfing the Inferno allies for free "dogpile" was because it wasn't FAIR (on mercs and large alliances). So by the logic of the developers it should be perfect right?

Why would you want to balance a fight.? Fair question, let me answer.

ANYONE with ANY knowledge of war, or warfare ( being different from a " fight", singular) knows that when 2 forces are fairly evenly balanced, they fight. when they are not, they do not fight.It's very simple, really.

Armies just don't meet, look at each other and say "Yeah, this looks fair" and go at it. They make camp and try to figure out what to do to make the odds favor them a bit more.

...What the CSM has been hiding is that Trebor Daehdoow is actually "Future Mittani" - sent back through a wormhole in order to rewrite history...

I am very impressed that we managed to get from trolling to serious Sun Tzu quotes. Long may it last! Here's one that I apply in wormholes but I hear also works in Nullsec

GÇ£The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.GÇ¥

I am very impressed that we managed to get from trolling to serious Sun Tzu quotes. Long may it last! Here's one that I apply in wormholes but I hear also works in Nullsec

GÇ£The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.GÇ¥

How can you AFK cloak without local?!

Nothing unfair about it. Nothing unfair about bringing in 5000 of your bestest buds either... Wardec'ing Bloggers because they posted things about mittens during the election?

Pretty certain no changes would've been made to the system if literally every hisec griefing corp hadn't dogpiled into every hisec war they could dogpile into.

Just sayin'.

Still don't see the problem with it. War isn't supposed to be fair or balanced, long as it's unfair for them.

How can you AFK cloak without local?!

Come on Jade, being able to lock allies into mutual wars is clearly a really bad idea. Right now, I could form two alt corps, have them wardec each other, and then grab a bunch of free allies or even paid mercs, make the war mutual and never let them out. This is a bad thing, and these changes go a long way towards fixing that problem.

Limits on allies are not just about Goons, why would *any* corp wardec anyone else right now? If you do so, you are subjecting yourself to a possibly unlimtied number of allies. You talk about 9000 vs 100, but what about a 20 vs 20 wardec. Right now, the defender can pull in many hundreds or even thousands of allies, and there is no way a small corp would be able to deal with that.

Too bad that the wardec mechanics don't allow aggressors to get allies.
So much for the CSM knowing anything about this feature.

******* hell.

Edit: CCP, the defender might have been too powerful, but now everything is in control of the agressor.
"Oh my, too many allies. I better opt out now."
Bullshit.