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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Myrkala
Minmatar Aurora Acclivitous
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Posted - 2009.11.22 01:24:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Seishi Maru Bringing this up. Because if CCP tough that the old naglfar rants and whines were a lot. ... they better get ready to what will come from the comunity every frickign day even after dominion is deployed until this is solved!
The because of falcon Meme will sound like a joke compared to what will happen.
Because of Nozh(fail)?
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.11.22 11:08:00 -
[152]
Edited by: Seishi Maru on 22/11/2009 11:09:42 I therefor declare open the new meme of DOMINION!
BECAUSE OF NOZH!
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.22 14:13:00 -
[153]
it will be fun watching it all Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Cpt AngelNova
Amarr Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.22 19:42:00 -
[154]
Edited by: Cpt AngelNova on 22/11/2009 19:44:41
Originally by: Linas IV
Originally by: Hun Jakuza
Naglfar was unbalanced? Ok Keep the 7.5% dual bonus and REMOVE 1 missile launcher. EVEN BOTH. Because the real focused weapon system on the ship was the ONLY useful part!
QFT
Really throw away the Launchers and increase the Projectile Bonuses FINALY that its two Turrets can compare with the three on other dreads.
The new Citadel Torps/Cruises are utterly trash for nearly every purpose, and No TPs aren't the Way to go to fix them!
To quote it again for importance: Originally by: Hun Jakuza Really throw away the Launchers and increase the Projectile Bonuses FINALY that its two Turrets can compare with the three on other dreads.
One has to ask then. Why not just do away with the 2 launchers compleatly then and give it a 3rd turret, thus making it a 3 turret dread like the Revelation / Moros ?
In another tread its been talked about how weak the Naglfar is interms of staying power
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1217073&page=52 Posts: 1533 or 1550
With a 3 turret weapon system it can then get a bonus to its weapons, say... RoF for example and the 2nd bonus goes to its staying power, be it a 5% HP increase or 5% resists bonus per skill level.... or move the extra high to the medslots, depending if CCP wants it to be shield tanked or armor tanked
atm i can only come up with 2 issues regarding making the Naglfar a single weapon system
1. after this ONLY 2 ships in the whole of EvE will use capital missiles the phoenix and Leviathan 2. People might complain about having torps L5 already, though if the buff to the naglfar is enough, i doubt it...and there is always the 5 launcher typhoon after dominion
though this is just my opinion, making it a turret only dread like a revelation will also fix the skill training issue and bring it inline, as things stand now.. having to train 3 weapons systems for 1 dread is a little heavy (torps, cruise,Projectile turret)
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Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.22 22:26:00 -
[155]
the Nags model cant support 3 turrets due to design issues, thats why originally they made it so the bonuses were more aimed at the 2 turrets and not at all at the missiles.
The Nag will primarily be using Cruise missiles- frankly if a Rev at lvl 4/5 does more damage than a max skilled Nag at lvl 4/5 dread with the new bonuses, CCP devs have made a huge failing- that a ship requiring 2 weapon upgrade types, has 4 cap weapons in highs somehow still doesnt do the most damage.
Pos engagements happen 45km-50km from the tower CCP, that gives 15-20km with bumpage so you dont get stuck on pos shields. Torps cannot hit that far nor can they do max damage to the targets anyway with the REDICULOUS EXPLOSION RADIUS. |
HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.23 02:23:00 -
[156]
and so it will be Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Jack Coutu
Gallente Duty.
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Posted - 2009.11.23 04:23:00 -
[157]
FIRE NOZH
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.23 05:51:00 -
[158]
embrace change, ok sure no one will fly the nag but who cares Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Ramson
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.23 06:34:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
Originally by: Ernst Ra'Kun I had planned and invested quite a lot to training for the naglfar. I was quite happy with the boost they gave but now.... sigh...
is there any way this can be a good ship still or do i just train for amarr?
if the hel remains to be the only mom with an explosion radius bonus to fighter bombers, it could very well be the only minnie capital with an edge.
Now the Hel is going to be nerfed too ... you couldnt keep quiet.. could you -------
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Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.11.23 06:37:00 -
[160]
....
i really hate to say this... but I'm considering setting a long skill training and joining wow.
Eve is just so porely balanced and at best it's in a perpetual state of half finishedness. ------------------------------
Just a crazy inventor ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
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Exordium8
Minmatar Royal Hiigaran Navy Maru Ka'ge
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Posted - 2009.11.23 10:17:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Jack Coutu FIRE NOZH
CCP, when will you listen to the players demands? Fire Nozh and push dominion back until this is all sorted out. Also, please don't censor your playerbase. If you took the criticism and made the game better because of it, im sure the playerbase wouldn't care about moving dominion back a little while. --------------------------------- Pillage, then burn. Everything is air-droppable at least once. There is no 'overkill.' There is only 'open fire' and 'time to reload. When the going gets tou |
HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.23 10:30:00 -
[162]
actualy ignore the 00 whiners and go with the balance. Put dominions thro and have a mini patch with mothership changes to make em adapt or die more Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Slayerofthecarebears
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Posted - 2009.11.23 10:46:00 -
[163]
Originally by: HeliosGal actualy ignore the 00 whiners and go with the balance. Put dominions thro and have a mini patch with mothership changes to make em adapt or die more
Yes, completely unbalance ships and unbalance caps until they're unusuable. After all, im a carebear and i can't use caps in hisec, so why should i care? Doesnt affect me.
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Elaron
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.11.23 14:07:00 -
[164]
Originally by: HeliosGal actualy ignore the 00 whiners and go with the balance. Put dominions thro and have a mini patch with mothership changes to make em adapt or die more
I wouldn't have minded a reduction in the Naglfar's bonuses for balance, but returning the ship to having a split weapon bonus is asinine and insulting.
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Ryuzaki Lawliet
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.23 14:18:00 -
[165]
First, I can't fly any caps, nor do I plan to anytime soon.
But deteriorating the Nag as much as you have, via a tertiary weapon system, and then making the missile properties horrendous, you have effectively cut Minmatar out of the capital field.
Congratulations on removing pretty much the last thing that Minmatar had going for them. Makes my skills in Minmatar ships feel completely wasted. Think you can refund me those SP so I can train something that is at least useful for PvP?
Originally by: Vabjekf
Once you have 12 decillion skill points you can equip smaller ships in your slots and shoot rifters at people
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Myrkala
Minmatar Aurora Acclivitous
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Posted - 2009.11.23 15:04:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Elaron
Originally by: HeliosGal actualy ignore the 00 whiners and go with the balance. Put dominions thro and have a mini patch with mothership changes to make em adapt or die more
I wouldn't have minded a reduction in the Naglfar's bonuses for balance, but returning the ship to having a split weapon bonus is asinine and insulting.
Words practically stolen out of my mouth.
I want it to be balanced, adequate along side the other dreads and having its own flavor.
Split weapons suck CCP! You're making two different damage mods do the same thing as ONE on the other dreads. Fit one and you are only boosting damage to half of your weapons, fit two and you finally get to boost all of them... it's like a built in penalty for being minmatar.
While the other dreads happily boost their full rack of weapons with just one damage module, and then even more by fitting two. To achieve the same kind of boost of damage the Naglfar has to have FOUR (2xGyros/2xBCS) damage modules fitted, only then is the damage potential a smidgen higher. Meaning you're doing practically the same thing, only using double the amount of slots to do it.
Now add the fact you have to train more skills for it to even work.
Training more only to waste slots is stupid.
It's pretty appalling that you need to train two capital skills to use Capital Torps and Cruises when you only need one skill for both long and short range turrets. What is the reasoning behind this?
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.23 15:43:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Myrkala
Split weapons suck CCP!
The ironic thing is that the devs said so themselves in the Faction/Pirate ship balance threads. I wish I knew where to dig it up, but the sentiment was, "We've learned that split weapon systems are a very bad idea over the years..."
And then they did this. It's surgery with a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.
For the love of all things rusty, change it back to double projectile bonuses and reduce them!
Please read this post by Mioelnir for why these bonus changes are sensible.
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Myrkala
Minmatar Aurora Acclivitous
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Posted - 2009.11.23 15:56:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Seriously Bored
Originally by: Myrkala
Split weapons suck CCP!
The ironic thing is that the devs said so themselves in the Faction/Pirate ship balance threads. I wish I knew where to dig it up, but the sentiment was, "We've learned that split weapon systems are a very bad idea over the years..."
And then they did this. It's surgery with a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.
For the love of all things rusty, change it back to double projectile bonuses and reduce them!
Please read this post by Mioelnir for why these bonus changes are sensible.
Hah, yeah. I bet we can find it somewhere.
And that post by Mioelnir was great, and it also proved that the change was either "a jump to conlusions" change, due to laziness or just plain out of spite.
The drop from one of the bonuses from 7,5% to 5% was pretty obvious once you research it a bit, I saw it coming in the post. And it's such a simple solution too, we should lobby it. -
NO SPLIT WEAPON BONUSES ON THE NAGLFAR PLEASE! |
Linas IV
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Posted - 2009.11.23 16:34:00 -
[169]
Well, after visiting Sisi Today and noticing that nothing on this topic has change yet, I re-red Nozh's Devblog and tried now to imagine an alternative that should make most people happy (hopefully...)
Quote: Naglfar: Final Edition
Slot Layout: 4 / 6 / 6 2x Turrets / 1x Missile-launcher (one less Highslot and ML, reduce PG accordingly)
Bonuses: 5% XL-Projectile Rof per level 7,5% XL-Projectile Falloff per level
Role Bonus: 50% XL-Projectile Damage
Results: (with the new weapon changes)
-3 Effective bonused Weapons (Turrets) finaly!! => same as all other dreads. -Still the weakest Tank. -Closerange Turret-Damage slightly below Rev-Level, a bit above when using the aditional Torp Launcher. (but still well below Moros with Ions + Sentries) -Reasonably able to hit Towers with ACs. (due to Falloff-Bonus) -Longrange Turret-Damage on par with the Moros, a bit more range due to higher Falloff, but still a lot less dmg than a Rev. -Added Damage for additional skill time (1x Cit-Torp/Cruise) but not necessary.
=> Fixed Naglfar
So please try to consider it at least.
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.23 18:47:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Linas IV
=> Fixed Naglfar
So please try to consider it at least.
That's more powerful that the original 7.5%/7.5% Nag bonuses man...
Mioelnir made a very good case that 7.5% Damage/5% ROF would be right on the money. I just hope the folks on the balance team wake up and see how incredibly extreme the changes are considering there was word ZERO until a few days ago.
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Linas IV
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Posted - 2009.11.23 18:57:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Seriously Bored That's more powerful that the original 7.5%/7.5% Nag bonuses man...
No it isn't because of the one Laucher less. Calculate it for yourself.
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Marmios
Elite Aeronautic Developer Syndicate Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.23 22:16:00 -
[172]
Edited by: Marmios on 23/11/2009 22:16:34 Eh whats going on this sissi shot?
my ROF on TQ with Cit Torps is 23.97 actually...
hidden phoenix and nag boost?
btw ive tested it, its not just a typo. The rof is real.
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Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.23 23:24:00 -
[173]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 23/11/2009 23:26:00 It is not hidden, the dev blog stated about it (will do more damage etc...).
But the Torp range, his Explosion Velocity and his Explosion Radius has been nerfed. It becomes a close range weapon who don't do good damage against POSes. At this day, CCP still hasn't ½ increase the signature radius of the larger structures +, same if the dev blog promised it. _______ With the NGE, I''m sorry about the mistake we made. We screwed up and didn''t listen to the fans when we should have, and it''s not a mistake we''re going to make again.
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Marmios
Elite Aeronautic Developer Syndicate Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.23 23:43:00 -
[174]
Well its double the damage as before...
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Norris Packard
Wings of Redemption Black Flag Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.24 02:29:00 -
[175]
I am astonished that there has been no response from CCP about this butchering of the Nag.
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BanMeAgainPlz
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Posted - 2009.11.24 02:54:00 -
[176]
They've gone into full stealth "we don't give a **** mode" and are going to do whatever they want regardless of what the playerbase says. It's plainly obvious from the fact that the devblog thread has been ignored since the day it was posted and this thread has never gotten a dev reply while I watch new threads get a dev reply within hours of being posted. What a shock.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.11.24 03:00:00 -
[177]
Originally by: BanMeAgainPlz They've gone into full stealth "we don't give a **** mode" and are going to do whatever they want regardless of what the playerbase says.
I'm not really aware of ccp ever operating in any other fashion. Yes they ask for opinions and often will impliment them if they make sense but I can't ever recall a time ccp did something against their will from player intervention(read:threadnaught whinges) and that hilarious carrier fighter nerf troll ccp did way back to annoy all the forum whingers doesn't count.
Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
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Myrkala
Minmatar Aurora Acclivitous
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Posted - 2009.11.24 05:19:00 -
[178]
Yeah, I would really, really, really... like to get an explanation as to WHY it was changed back to focus on a split weapon system. I don't like it one bit, the current TQ Naglfar is the way it should be. Just tweak the bonuses! -
NO SPLIT WEAPON BONUSES ON THE NAGLFAR PLEASE! |
Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.24 06:14:00 -
[179]
Originally by: BanMeAgainPlz They've gone into full stealth "we don't give a **** mode" and are going to do whatever they want regardless of what the playerbase says. It's plainly obvious from the fact that the devblog thread has been ignored since the day it was posted and this thread has never gotten a dev reply while I watch new threads get a dev reply within hours of being posted. What a shock.
The thread got two replies to my knowledge...
Not to keep bashing a certain dev (who is getting far more than his share of the blame), but the first reply tried to demonstrate that cap torps were overpowered on Moms that use 5x Drone Control Units and 3x Target Painters against un-seiged Dreads. The second reply was Hammer saying that entire balance team acts as a unit, and no one changes anything without it being agreed on.
I wish any part of the above were an exaggeration.
Come on CCP. You know there are better options. Don't double gimp the Nag...
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BanMeAgainPlz
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Posted - 2009.11.24 08:07:00 -
[180]
Edited by: BanMeAgainPlz on 24/11/2009 08:09:57
Originally by: Seriously Bored
The thread got two replies to my knowledge...
Not to keep bashing a certain dev (who is getting far more than his share of the blame), but the first reply tried to demonstrate that cap torps were overpowered on Moms that use 5x Drone Control Units and 3x Target Painters against un-seiged Dreads. The second reply was Hammer saying that entire balance team acts as a unit, and no one changes anything without it being agreed on.
I wish any part of the above were an exaggeration.
Come on CCP. You know there are better options. Don't double gimp the Nag...
I was referring to it being ignored since Hammerhead tried to do damage control. No new replies since from CCP as far as I can see and plenty of constructive post deletion to be had.
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