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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
T'Karr Minmatar Quam Singulari	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:19:00 - [901] Originally by: Joe Goon Dear CCP, You'd probably have a lot more constructive posts if some of you guys would actually reply in this thread and move the discussion forward. It'd probably take less time than deleting the "unconstructive" ones. This is called a "dialog" and requires more than one party. If you don't actually want to discuss what you post in your blogs, why do you even bother opening threads about them? At the very least a post from Nozh (OK, a new blog would be better because it really would be like marching him out into a firing squad right now) detailing exactly what he thought was wrong with Abathur's implementation and needed fixing in the first place. This would give us a basis to further the discussion. Please take that on board. Now I'm going to wait an hour or so, and when I realise that I'm writing reasonably and calmly for an audience that doesn't exist, I'm going to come back to this thread and do the posting equivalent of taking a gigantic **** on the floor. Thanks for reading, CCP. I hope. THIS
Eniy Oh Gallente United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:22:00 - [902] CCP, a word of advice. Besides appointing forum staff that seems to do nothing else than delete real critique leveled at you, consider hiring some COMMUNICATION EXPERTS whose sole task will be to read the forums and reply to them with as much as openness as possible. You may think we're angry because we don't like the proposed changes. You may think this our anger is of a typical pattern that happens every time around the release of an expansion. You may think there's nothing you can do to stop this pattern. I can tell you this is not true. You need to engage in MEANINGFUL DIALOGUE with your player base. You need not think that we can't help you improve this game. You need not think that we will always attack you for your proposed changes. You just need to remember that being ignored, lied to, marginalized... Is exactly what caused Star Wars Galaxies to fail! Take this seriously, or you will fail too! Originally by: Doc Imp Well I'm happy with the changes, now my bellicose will have a place in fleet warfare! With my uber painting bonus I can help my cap buddies do full damage to anything bigger than a moon that isn't moving. Target painters do work on most capitals, right? Let me use my great understanding of humans to help you understand why there may be some player anger. You disregarded everything that was worked on and talked about. You gave absolutely no real information why you did this. You made capricious and arbitrary statements calling your knowledge on the topic you claim to know about into serious doubt. You did this repeatedly in fact. (we'll just let moms dock, use target painters you scrubs) You unleashed the moderators to bury the dissent and natural reaction of your players who thought they had an understanding with you about the direction this was going. You stopped talking, and have offered nothing more on the topic. Quoting for truth. Originally by: Loco Eve Originally by: Eniy Oh Navigator: thanks for at least showing you've deleted part of my post. Though I'd like to state here that the first part of my post contained my expressed disgust about the fact posts are being deleted at all. LOL, freedoom of speach doesn't not apply to ccp forom threads. Quoting because this is proof you've engaged into censorship, a very despicable act which WILL backfire on you. I'm not your only victim. Originally by: mkmin Dear CCP: The last time I've knowingly bought anything made by Sony(R) was Star Wars Galaxies{TM} around launch. "Threadnaughts" with little to no dev response was the primary reason I got out of SWG{TM} several months before it failed. I saw it as a sign of the devs caring more about the fantasies in their heads than the realities of what had been created. I felt that I, a paying customer, took a back seat. I regret having not gotten out of SWG(TM) a few months earlier than I did, especially because it turned out I was right. With Dominion I'm seeing plenty of SOE syndrome. If it's not corrected, I won't expect EVE to survive another year. If you let EVE die, I would advise you not to expect any repeat business. I don't believe Dust or any further CCP products will stand on it's own without the current EVE player base supporting it. If you don't support them I don't see why they'd support you. For now, my skill plan has less than 2 months in it. In the mean time I'm going to continue to watch for traces of SOE syndrome. Considering I only feel there's about a 30% chance of this post not getting deleted, I'm less than optimistic about EVE and CCP's future, and even less optimistic about my place in it. Quoting because this sums up pretty nicely what most of us are feeling... CCP, This is not the nth treadnought. This is not "the same whining as with every nerf" What you're seeing here is all EVE players of ALL different corps and alliances are UNITING. CCP, we are united here to tell you, that YOU need to LISTEN. Listen, before it's too late. --- The one whose ship names don't pass the sanity test while the rest of him is rather sane
Julio Torres Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:23:00 - [903] How about Titans? Would be only fair to cancel the horrible changes to them as well.
Battle Tested Shiva	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:25:00 - [904] You know if fighterbomber lag is the whole issue because of the graphics lag it causes when exploding, why not just remove the graphics from them? they would still do correct dps (if you fix the explosion radius and explosion velocity) and no lag caused from it. Give them the HP boost as all agreed on, no docking (if you must make it an expensive outpost upgrade that has a docking/undocking timer for supercarrier/motherships), and make them original build cost/requirements minus the clone vat bay. How difficult is this to fathom? You are removing a ship that upon its original release was a ship that many oooh'd and ahhhh'd over and planned on getting, to some is it like the endgame, an achievement to be proud of. To others it is a symbol of strength and superiority much like the American Nimitz class carriers of today's Navy. How difficult is it to agree on proposed changes to a ship that you yourselves at CCP have agreed is broken in today's capital fleet battles? You were looking in the right direction with Abathur's proposed and tested release. If the fighterbombers are broken, dont just throw it all away and make us that have invested so much time and isk into the mothership a total waste. We all want to see these ships have a proper use on the battlefield. If the fighterbombers are broken then scrap them, dont scrap the mothership. Create a new SuperFighter or something that doesnt use torpedoes/missiles, just give them enhanced guns that you can easily code to acceptable levels of dps.
Soldur Helljumpers	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:26:00 - [905] what a piece of $HIT patch is anything good auctually happening anymore with this patch. I guess its just the changes to pirate battleships....meh lets change the ships that get flown the least and screw the ones that get used all the time...I'm so confused
Predator Irl Caldari Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:27:00 - [906] What happened to Seleene? Things were looking good until this new scrub came along!
Venetian Tar United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:28:00 - [907] Originally by: Julio Torres How about Titans? Would be only fair to cancel the horrible changes to them as well. Not really, I think people are agreeing that Titan changes are ok (Yeah, don't flame me if I'm wrong on that point) It seems most of the rage is at Supercarriers and the Naglfar changes. Censorship only shows we are right, by the way. They don't like what we're saying, and they never will because they know we are right. If this post gets nuked, and I get banned. I love you guys. Even the Atlas guys, in a weird form.
Black Munkie	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:29:00 - [908] Nice! Just as CCP look like they are getting their ** together, they go and pull this **. I know, lets just break Eve, 0.0 and give it all to the carebears!
T'Karr Minmatar Quam Singulari	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:29:00 - [909] Dreads Own Moms If Nozh Isnt Overturned Now
Julio Torres Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:33:00 - [910] Originally by: Venetian Tar Originally by: Julio Torres How about Titans? Would be only fair to cancel the horrible changes to them as well. Not really, I think people are agreeing that Titan changes are ok (Yeah, don't flame me if I'm wrong on that point) It seems most of the rage is at Supercarriers and the Naglfar changes. Censorship only shows we are right, by the way. They don't like what we're saying, and they never will because they know we are right. If this post gets nuked, and I get banned. I love you guys. Even the Atlas guys, in a weird form. The way Titans currently are. We have 2 roles 1) Mobile Stargate 2) Cynogen Jump Freighter/Rorqual Gank-mobile There is no incentive to put us on the battlefield. We are just a even bigger liability now. Like what moms are today.
Venetian Tar United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:36:00 - [911] Originally by: Julio Torres The way Titans currently are. We have 2 roles 1) Mobile Stargate 2) Cynogen Jump Freighter/Rorqual Gank-mobile There is no incentive to put us on the battlefield. We are just a even bigger liability now. Like what moms are today. What would your ideas be to change the current Titan system then? So is everyone in agreement that Titans also suck? Christ, CCP. You've really screwed up this time...
Aequitas Veritas Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:37:00 - [912] Titans arent fine with their current damage, since there is no reason to keep them on the field when they only do the damage of one dread... Remember that they get 500% total bonus to guns on 6 guns. While a dread has 3 guns, rof/dmg bonus and damage mods and 625% bonus to damage from siege module. Titans will continue to be sitting at poses doing nothing but bridge ppl about... "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Severion Atarkos	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:38:00 - [913] Edited by: Severion Atarkos on 20/11/2009 13:39:33 Edited by: Severion Atarkos on 20/11/2009 13:39:09 Edited by: Severion Atarkos on 20/11/2009 13:38:16 Originally by: Eniy Oh Edited by: Eniy Oh on 20/11/2009 07:53:13 Quote: Admit your mistakes and DELAY DOMINION. Do not let stubborn pride force you to rush out an obviously unfinished expansion just to meet an arbitrary deadline. Why oh why would you put someone in charge of ships they know nothing about CCP? You need to remember something...we are your customers and you have been falsy advertising an expansion for months and all of a sudden decide moms/titans aren't supposed to be worth the risk anymore? WTF is wrong with you? WE DESERVE AN ANSWER FROM A SENIOR CCP MEMBER NOT THIS ** WHO IS GOING TO DRIVE AWAY YOUR CUSTOMERS AND PUT EVE THE SAME ROUTE SWG WENT
Battle Tested Shiva	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:42:00 - [914] Originally by: Severion Atarkos WE DEMAND AN ANSWER FROM A SENIOR CCP MEMBER NOT THIS ** WHO IS GOING TO DRIVE AWAY YOUR CUSTOMERS AND PUT EVE THE SAME ROUTE SWG WENT fixed
Ejderdisi Caldari Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:43:00 - [915] To fix moms and keep them with their bombers and HP just remove RR capabilities. RR on a EW resistant ship which can kill dreads and make perfect combo with titans are game breaking
Tharrn Amarr Epitoth Guard Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:44:00 - [916] On a more serious note I guess they need to be given some time to scratch their heads, have some meetings and decide what to say/do. It's what people here say they expect: a plan. And formulating a plan might take some time. I'd wager they got the message that people are unhappy. Maybe I am just naive though :P -----
Lord Milton Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:44:00 - [917] Edited by: Lord Milton on 20/11/2009 13:44:11 buttes
Soldur Helljumpers	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:45:00 - [918] Edited by: Soldur on 20/11/2009 13:45:46 Originally by: Battle Tested Originally by: Severion Atarkos [size=8]WE DEMAND AN ANSWER FROM A SENIOR CCP MEMBER NOT THIS ** WHO IS GOING TO DRIVE AWAY YOUR CUSTOMERS AND PUT EVE THE SAME ROUTE SWG WENT[/size=8] fixed quoted cause this is some big text
Julio Torres Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:46:00 - [919] Originally by: Venetian Tar Originally by: Julio Torres The way Titans currently are. We have 2 roles 1) Mobile Stargate 2) Cynogen Jump Freighter/Rorqual Gank-mobile There is no incentive to put us on the battlefield. We are just a even bigger liability now. Like what moms are today. What would your ideas be to change the current Titan system then? So is everyone in agreement that Titans also suck? Christ, CCP. You've really screwed up this time... De-nanofy Titans. Its all about Risk vs Reward, currently deploying a Titan has no risk.
T'Karr Minmatar Quam Singulari	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:46:00 - [920] Edited by: T''Karr on 20/11/2009 13:47:21 CCP... when are you going to start replying to us, its making us more frustrated. This complete U-Turn is starting to cause a lot of unrest and the community are getting sick of their posts being deleted just because they are "passionate" should we say... If we start getting responses then we will start getting more constructive if we can actually move this forward. At the end of the day, 95% of people on this thread want the Abathur changes.... They were amazing and kept the faith in CCP creating amazing expansions..... If Nozh's ideas are put through then cap warfare will be worsened. Motherships will have longer to wait for a ship that they can actually use. And the community will lose faith in what we all hoped would be the best expansion to date... good luck trying to rectify this "mistake" and satisfying the community. But you have to overturn this change... its just not acceptable, the manner it was imposed and the way that it was delivered to us.
Mioelnir Minmatar Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:47:00 - [921] Oh, and, something I missed earlier when I made that rather long math posting about a better adaption of the Naglfar. Nozh, in your graph, you have the base weapon dps of the Quad 3500mm Artillery on TQ shown in the graph at roughly 35 DPS. Going with the highest damage ammo available on TQ, EMP XL, we get 88 damage * 12.075 / 35.44 seconds = 29.98 damage/second. Now, I am hesitant to ask, but could the fact that in your calculations the Naglfar became such a monster be attributed to the fact that your base numbers were off by the slight margin of +16.7%? Because there really is no way that a Quad 3500mm Artillery achieves a base performance of 35 DPS on Tranquility.
STRICKERO Les chevaliers de l'ordre Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:48:00 - [922] Dear CCP, Since it seem you dont know "what to do" with titans, here is a tips : why not giving titan class ship a capital command ship role ? Just give titan a huge command bonus, like a 20% bonus to effectiveness of gang links command modules per titan skill level. So, it give titan a real job in fleet, and a reason to bring such an expensive ship onto the battlefield and stay ! In order to do so, you'll have to reduce their gun / missiles slot numbers, so the command modules and titan module can be fitted without using guns slot. In the end, it will be something like : 4 guns / missiles, 1 dd, 1 jpg, 2 command modules. You can, at your convenience, re-adjust the damage bonus a bit if that matter to you, i dont care to be honest. However, what i care, like most titans pilots, is that we dont want to fly "the ultimate Pwn mobile" ship, nor be "useless". We want to be able to come on the field, straight into the middle of a fight, and be USEFULL ! ------------------------------- "Success is never final. Failure is never fatal. It is courage that counts." -- Winston Churchill
Zeveron Destructive Influence IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:51:00 - [923] Edited by: Zeveron on 20/11/2009 13:51:59 Quote: What would your ideas be to change the current Titan system then? Stick with the initial changes seleene suggested. If the 5 min rof on DD is to much, give the titans back their AoE and force them to stay on the field after they fired the DD. Give them the capital weapons bonus and the hp boost though. Multiple titan fire fixed. Great battles to kill titans will occur. As for the MSs, the initial implementation was just fine. ________________________________________________
Nye Jaran	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:53:00 - [924] Thank you for postponing some of the proposed changes in order to further develop and refine them.
Ookami Omoi	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:53:00 - [925] before we start i'm in a corp that lives in high sec, we don't have any moms or dreads got a few carriers. i think you should all be greatfull for having ccp nozh, here is a dev that is changing the game and it machanics with tp that will will work on pos and super capitals, he know that we never have capital fights that are right on top of one and other no we alway use range and dreads never have to fight bs. we should all worship this dev he is the greatest dev we have i mean think about it he change the ms and when everyone told him it was no good he just removed all changes. he kind of reminds me of the eric cartmen from southpark "screw you guys i'm going home" when he didn't get his way. the changes that where on sisi before he touched them for moms where fine, ccp should deploy dominion with them and also change the dreads back as most dread fight at point blank range when fighting other capitals. also i don't blame nozh's on his own on these changes i blame ccp as a whole they could have said to him no look the players are happy lets put it in then nerf it if need be but no the backed his changes over the ones that the players spent time testing
Jack Gilligan THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:57:00 - [926] Looks like I definitely picked the right month to decide to quit EVE. All the signs are there that this game is being developed in an incompetent SOE like manner and it's being NGE'd ahead of this "konsole kiddz" addition of Dust514. We have a developer in charge of revamping capital ships who clearly has not only never flown one in a fight, but has never SEEN one in a fight. The statement that capital fights rarely happen at close range proves it. EVERY cap fight happens at close range! And to add a suggestion that people use target painters on ships that are immune to all electronic warfare (titans, moms, and sieges dreads) as a way to mitigate a nerf to capital weapons just puts the icing on the cake. Clearly this game is moving in a direction that is not good. So I am removing my support from it to the tune of 4 subscriptions until at the very least this Nozh idiot is removed and replaced in his capacity with someone with one iota of clue.
Elphy Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.20 14:00:00 - [927] Edited by: Elphy on 20/11/2009 14:00:35 Originally by: Yet another angry customer WE DEMAND AN ANSWER FROM A SENIOR CCP MEMBER NOT THIS ** WHO IS GOING TO DRIVE AWAY YOUR CUSTOMERS AND PUT EVE THE SAME ROUTE SWG WENT not empty-quoting - this chap has a valid point What?
Spiffing1	Posted - 2009.11.20 14:07:00 - [928] Another "Hilarious Forum Troll from CCP" Well done, you've had your laughs, now tell us you were joking and we can all go back to what we were doing WTB Response from a dev ASAP
Indigo Johnson Minmatar	Posted - 2009.11.20 14:13:00 - [929] WTB CCP reply, pwetty please
Pedron Niaal Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.20 14:13:00 - [930] If motherships dont get the HP change, they will NOT be used till you bring out a patch that brings them into line with the other capitals. The Titanss new designed doomsday weapon is not at all balanced versus the Weak effective Hitpoints stats of motherships. The dreadnoughts new weapons are in no way balanced, (im not a fan of caldari or missiles but their range is WAY below guns, so they have no real reason to fly these ships into combat as a battleship can hit further) The tracking means that titans are not able to hit battleships, which it should (its a huge combat/logistic station) nor will it be very effective in doing anything but the casual 10 minute drive by doomsday... (like it is now just with 1 dead target). the close range weapon systems are still a joke and the naglfar is nerfed to death after being useless for years, and some short months of glory. thanks ccp for still not knowing whats good...

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