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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
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CCP Fallout
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:12:00 -
[1]
What will happen to capital ships with EVE Online: Dominion? Get the skinny from CCP Nozh's newest dev blog.
Fallout
Associate Community Manager
CCP Hf, EVE Online
Contact us |
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Nightbird
SiN. Corp
Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:18:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Nightbird on 19/11/2009 22:22:58
FIRST (*first time ever!!!!)
And might i say WEAK on the pushback of fighter bombers. If nothing else, keep MS the same, but include the fighter-bomber.
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Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:22:00 -
[3]
Hmm, so no changes at all for the MS then? Well better luck next time.
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Undertow Latheus
Minmatar
Monolithic.
Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:24:00 -
[4]
awaiting the ****storm from mom pilots, since you guys are just letting moms and af's sit and rot for another 6 months. nice.
the short range turret changes look good, revelation won't be the only dread able to realistically use short range weapons. One thing im curious about though, what's with the stealth nerf to the naglfar of giving it 5% to turret dmg and 5% to missile RoF instead of its two 7.5% turret dps bonuses?
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Ranko
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:25:00 -
[5]
So those ex-Mom pilots who sold their moms a few days ago for 6 bill per ship... *ouch*
hahahahahhaaha 
Anyway, glad they are not being altered.
---
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Bahamir
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:25:00 -
[6]
CooL!
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Shnitz
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:30:00 -
[7]
Sweet
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something somethingdark
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:32:00 -
[8]
Thanks for listening and saving the mom for now
Citadel changes are a just a nerf
hint : small pos signature radius
Titan changes in the current iteration make it a mobile jumpbridge thats it
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Lolion Reglo
Demio's Corporation
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:38:00 -
[9]
Wow im on the first page o.0?....
Anyway, I'm honestly glad CCP is taking this off the docket for Dominion. IT proves they saw they bit off more than they could chew and instead of destroying a ship class in the game they are only postponing the changes the class needs. Yeah sucks it wont be in this release but i look forward to when you get it right and that is not to say it has to be 6 months from ow in then ext expansion. I mean after all they released the change to rigs in a single down time in between expansions.... whats to say they cant do the same with Moms?
But to get more onto the details pertaining to the mother ship... i head the bonus of launching 3 more fighter per level was getting the axe because of the fighter bombers? I say this is a bad call as if you were going to change Moms to super carriers you should retain the ability to launch more fighters than a carrier but make it so you only get a finite amount of bombers if your concerned about DPS. Super carriers should have the distinct difference in terms of fighter support their small carrier cousins have to justify the x6 price difference.
Don't know if what i said was a groundless rumor but hey... thought id throw my 2 cents in from an aspiring mom pilot myself....hehe
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Soleil Fournier
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:42:00 -
[10]
Thank you for not pushing out the ill-advised change in design on the moms. That is a great decision.
I hope that we don't have to wait another year or two to be fixed.
Thanks
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Aqua Tarkus
ZER0.
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:42:00 -
[11]
This was fun actually:
 Quote:
...but history has taught us that balancing by price is never a good idea.
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Mookuh
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:43:00 -
[12]
my .02 ISK:
Put Motherships into the "logistical backbone of the fleet" role, so you can keep the old name, and give the fighter-bombers to... something else? Or make them remote-assignable but really expensive so it's worthy shooting them on the field.
Give moms the gang bonuses Titans currently give, and take away some of their pure damage potential when introducing the bombers, enlarge ship array, let 'em keep the clone vat bay etc.
Titans should instead be combat juggernauts... especially if you want to see them on the field more often, because if their main job is to be the logistical backbone of a fleet, chances are they won't be warping onto the battlefield.
On another note:
If motherships won't get changed for Dominion, will their HP also not be boosted? Meaning 2 Titans can insta-DD a mothership?
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Terry 'Mookuh' Hijakosji
CAIN Public Relations |
Seth Rock
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:43:00 -
[13]
Thanks for at least listening to us and realizing that the changes would have broke them even more.
I can think of an easy solution that has been suggested a few times to fix the issue with fighterbombers.
-reduce the bandwith of them
-keep the 20 fighters and drones
-"maybe" include a type of dcu for fighterbombers to where if the pilot wants more they would have to lose a highslot fitting the dcu.
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SuperSarge
Dark Knights of Deneb
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:43:00 -
[14]
Won't Moms get killed by a single(or maybe 2) titans? Give hp boost at least :/
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The Mittani
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:44:00 -
[15]
The playerbase tested the new motherships over several weeks on SiSi and found them good.
Some genius put you in charge of Abathur's good work, and now you've not only screwed up all the effort that went into testing those ships, now there's to be no improvement at all.
Where is your credibility on caps? Who are you? Have you fought in a supercapital, lost a supercapital on the field?
Is this the new CCP, or the old CCP rearing its terrible, incompetent head?
Sins of a Solar Spymaster: my ~fair and balanced~ column
TheMittani @ Twitter
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Fogy
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:44:00 -
[16]
1 word. FAIL.
CCP Nozh... i repeat my initial comment from the last thread..
GO AWAY !
Cheers!
Fogy
PS. FREE ABATHUR!
![]()
"EVE Online: Shenanigans"
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Princess Xenia
Caldari
Scion Innovations
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:47:00 -
[17]
How to make better graphs:
Use same colour theme.
Maybe construct 'new values' graphs including BOTH old and the upcoming changes. (dotted / slashed / solid lines?)
Makes for easier interpretation.
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Amber Bock
The Hull Miners Union
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:48:00 -
[18]
How about you use the original mothership changes instead of "were looking into it."
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Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:49:00 -
[19]
So the motherships stay stored away for another year it seems. |
Darius JOHNSON
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:49:00 -
[20]
"Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances. "
I don't know what game you're talking about but in the internet spaceship game Eve Online this statement is patently false.
Originally by: Iroku Mata
Darius is time to STFU and make your GSM place free for someone who got the humildity to have the job you claim and failled!
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:50:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 19/11/2009 22:50:57
Oddly, my post saying how much of a FAILURE this is gets deleted. Yet the people posting one-word replies of "cool!" and "sweet!" get to stay. Remember, you're CCP, not CCCP. 
-Motherships are back to being in the "land of the forgotten" with AFs, deimos, rockets, nag, etc.
-Nag goes back to split weapon suckage, almost immediately after it became worthwhile as a result of MASSIVE player petitions and interaction with YOUR balancing staff.
-titan goes from driveby subcap gang killer to doing nothing but jump bridging and instaganking carriers and dreads aggrod on stations. Because let's be honest: in a major cap fight (on that might bring titans), killing a dread every 10 minutes means nothing and doing just over dread dps from regular weapons will never get a dread to stay on the field.
All in all, BRAVO!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Kieselguhr Kid
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:50:00 -
[22]
Quote:
Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances.
next time, please put this in the first sentence of the OP so I can stop reading there
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Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:50:00 -
[23]
i said this one already but-- ccp nozh, in fixing what isnt broken until it is broken and stomping on what is broken until its fragile amber crystals are pulverized into a shimmering power, will accomplish what we failed to do in four years of trying
he will destroy the game
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Esna Pitoojee
Amarr
TalCorp Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:51:00 -
[24]
Abathur seemed to have this all worked out and all under control.
Can someone honestly explain to me why this was taken away from Abathur? The delays, redesign after redesign, and general levels of unhappyness displayed by the playerbase should have said something about that choice.
(All fairness to CCP here - putting Abathur on the Sov mechanics project was a good idea, given Abathur's past. Still doesn't explain why he was taken off this, though.)
----------------------------------------------
Say "Amarr ships suk, lol." I dare you.
My statments do not represent the opinions, views, or actions of my corp. |
Zxmagus
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:51:00 -
[25]
He's missing the whole damn point about the risk rewards of short range fights, they should be encouraging hot dropping at face love range, stop forcing every fight to sniper ranges and give us more tactical options.
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Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:51:00 -
[26]
Did he just say most capital fights don't happen at short range?
For god sake...CCP, get developers that play your game and have even a little bit of a clue. Just a little bit would be nice. Glad I didn't save up any cash for an MS and just sold my capital pilot, because you people wouldn't have a clue what to do with capital ships if a good idea walked up and slapped you in the head.
Seriously, the level of incompetence this takes is astounding.
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Sophie Daigneau
CAPITAL Assistance in Destruction Society
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:53:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Sophie Daigneau on 19/11/2009 22:52:53
CCP has finally done what Jimmy Carter, Al Gore, and Barrack Obama have all tried to do...united the entire world behind a single cause.
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Telender
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:54:00 -
[28]
The mothership changes were literally the ONLY THING I was looking forward to for this patch. Luckily this blog came out just hours before I threw 5 billion isk worth of minerals into the cooker. I should have known that the CCP that deleted my boot.ini would be equally as incompetent in implementing last minute changes to their patch.
Quote:
Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances.
That is a quote from the devblog where you apparently think that people only have capital fights at range 80 or 100 or something. Point blank capital fights happen ALL THE TIME. You need to go back to the days where your developers actually belong to alliances that use these ships and PLAY THE GAME (clearly with tighter controls on who is doing what cause, heh, T20).
Anyway...back to your awesome plan where 15 billion isk motherships can be alpha'd by your new titan doomsdays weapons.
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afrobus
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:55:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Esna Pitoojee
(All fairness to CCP here - putting Abathur on the Sov mechanics project was a good idea, given Abathur's past. Still doesn't explain why he was taken off this, though.)
obviously he just wasnt incompetent enough.
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The Slayer
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:55:00 -
[30]
Edited by: The Slayer on 19/11/2009 22:55:09
Where the hell did Seleene go, he listened to us and his ideas were fantastic, this nozh guy is an utter scrub.
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Aprudena Gist
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:55:00 -
[31]
man i cant wait to two shot a nyx
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Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:55:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Battle Tested on 19/11/2009 22:59:43
If a MS is on the field, it WILL get instapopped by Titans...at least give the hitpoint boost and work on fixing the fighterbombers for another patch. |
The Mittani
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:55:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
"Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances. "
I don't know what game you're talking about but in the internet spaceship game Eve Online this statement is patently false.
This is pretty horrific. We go from a dev who had used supercaps, lost supercaps, killed supercaps - to some guy who doesn't even know how basic capfights in nullsec work.
This is just shameful. Shameful. I thought things were bad for us when you unironically suggested allowing motherships to dock, not a few days ago. Now this? My god.
Sins of a Solar Spymaster: my ~fair and balanced~ column
TheMittani @ Twitter
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Gorfob
Minmatar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:56:00 -
[34]
Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances.
_________/
Image removed. Zymurgist
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Random Womble
Minmatar
Emo Rangers
Electric Monkey Overlords
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:56:00 -
[35]
got to love the "with 1 gyro 6x2500mm repeating art can outdamage the siege ion blaster" then later saying you changing the nag back to split weapons so generally at most the nag will be fitted with 1 gyro where as a moros would normally be fitted with 2 mag stabs since it does not need split damage mods completely nullifying the point you made earlier and infact increasing the advantage of blasters (and every other dreads weapon systems) if you ignore damage mods all together your point is invalid anyway.
The other thing is not only did you revert to the useless split bonus you then made the bonus worse than before. The cap use of the guns BTW for dreads is normally irrelevant since in large engagements dreads active tanks are useless.
There was a good reason why the split weapons bonus was removed now if things would be slightly overpower with the bonus as it currently is use your brain and just tweak the numbers dont go back to what was rubbish before and was rightly moved away from.
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Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:56:00 -
[36]
seriously ccp you have managed to take every worthwhile idea you had for dominion and either mangle it into something foul and unrecognizable or discard it entirely
this is some flowers for algernon ****
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Monkey M3n
Beyond Divinity Inc
Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:57:00 -
[37]
lol way to backpedal because people do not approve
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Vuk Lau
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:57:00 -
[38]
I am speechless.
You Sir are clueless.
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Zastrow
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:57:00 -
[39]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances.
Nozh do you see this post i made for soundwave and abathur here? http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1216357&page=7#193
read the first sentences carefully because nobody will ever say this to you. ever.
please stop posting forever
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:58:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Kayl Breinhar on 19/11/2009 22:58:41
I'm with the rest of my corp and soon to be the rest of the capital-flying public of EVE when I say that you shouldn't be pulling this **** on us *this* close to launch day. Are you out of your collective ****ing minds?
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Fire Hawk
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:58:00 -
[41]
CCP you weent from exiting everyone about your patch to making everyone ****ed.
You just complete **** up the most important ship calse in the game, a useless jump portal with a rediculous range. You want to make them a logistical role, boost their logistic capacity dont just nerf the rest.
___
Fear the french touch.
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Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:58:00 -
[42]
I can see his thought process now: "Well, most Dreads use long range weapons, so Dread fights must happen at long range! That must be it guys, otherwise why would they use long range weapons? It couldn't be because the short range ones suck, right? No, it must be because they don't fight close up".
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Sarah Meow
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:59:00 -
[43]
Thank you CCP, now I am stuck in a useless ship for at least 6 months. With the changes applied to titans, MS are even more worthless than before. Will all MS pilots get 6 plexes as reimbursement?
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Alexander Knott
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:00:00 -
[44]
You said:
Quote:
The new version of the Citadel Torpedo follows the same trend as other unguided missiles. The explosion velocity is slightly higher than that of the Citadel Cruise Missiles (or 2250) which means target painters will have to be utilized in many situations to achieve full damage potential. They do considerably more damage than their missile counterparts, with reduced range and velocity.
I think you meant:
Quote:
The new version of the Citadel Torpedo follows the same trend as other unguided missiles. The explosion radius is slightly higher than that of the Citadel Cruise Missiles (or 2250) which means target painters will have to be utilized in many situations to achieve full damage potential. They do considerably more damage than their cruise missile counterparts, with reduced range and velocity.
Things that can not be target painted:
- Supercaps
- POS Modules
- Dreads in siege
- Carriers in triage
Supercaps and Carriers aren't terribly important, but dreads certainly are.
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Duckbar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:00:00 -
[45]
I for one can't wait for titan's to effectively oneshot people dumb enough to log in to their unchanged motherships.
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Tar'an Tula
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:00:00 -
[46]
i can't believe that dominion is about to go live in 2 weeks... ccp needs to delay the whole patch until they know what is going on. dominion is simply not ready. with 2 weeks to go we're completely taking the MS revisions off the table? the sov system has been tested by random groups of players who generally are not involved in 0.0 warfare for only a few days, and CCP generally has no idea if this **** is all going to work in a positive way, yet they are still going ahead with the patch? amazing.
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Sealclubber Jones
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:01:00 -
[47]
Goons and IT agreeing on something. This should tell you it's bad.
Also, I enjoy how you posted this on a Thursday so you could ignore the outrage for 3 days before having to deal with it on Monday morning. |
Toman Torax
Rage For Order
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:01:00 -
[48]
I really just don't get it...
The changes proposed by Abathur were tested, and overall well accepted. Why did you feel the need to screw with that? You basically erased months worth of ideas, work and testing.
What was the point?
Now you're back to square one. Can we at least go back to Abathur's ideas, and discuss why you felt those changes wouldn't have worked - or better yet, USE THEM?
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Darius JOHNSON
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:01:00 -
[49]
Pro Tip: A calculator should be only ONE of the tools in the ol' toolbox.
Originally by: Iroku Mata
Darius is time to STFU and make your GSM place free for someone who got the humildity to have the job you claim and failled!
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Irongut
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:02:00 -
[50]
So everything that was good in Dominion has now been canceled and all we're left with is the crap? Good job CCP.
If you can't get it finished for 1st Dec you should have put the release date back a month, or more if necessary. There would be nothing wrong with that. While you're at it sack Nozh and put Abathur back in charge of the supercap changes, at least he knows what he's doing.
--
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The Mittani
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:02:00 -
[51]
At first I wanted Nozh's head - get him away from the capital portfolio, since he apparently knows nothing about 1. supercaps 2. the weeks of testing before he came on the scene 3. how capfights even work
Now, however - after the 'docking motherships' hilarity, and this blog? I want to know who is responsible for hiring Nozh, and putting him in charge of capitals. Who is to blame for this gross act of negligence?
Oh, by the way, you talked about painters in your blog, Nozh. You may not know this, but you can't paint a sieged dread, mothership or Titan. Hope this helps.
Sins of a Solar Spymaster: my ~fair and balanced~ column
TheMittani @ Twitter
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Telender
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:02:00 -
[52]
Why is it that every blog is written by someone different for Dominion and each one is radically different? Do you guys roshambo for whose ideas you will pretend to be coding each week?
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Alice Celadon
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:03:00 -
[53]
First CCP Nozh talked about caps speed-tanking fighter bombers.
Now he thinks cap fights never go close range.
Also, yet to be pointed out:
"The new version of the Citadel Torpedo follows the same trend as other unguided missiles. The explosion velocity is slightly higher than that of the Citadel Cruise Missiles (or 2250) which means target painters will have to be utilized in many situations to achieve full damage potential."
Ahem. Ahem.
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Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:03:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Blane Xero on 19/11/2009 23:02:50
Second page :(. Also bring back the abathur changes, screw delays upon delays.
_____________________________________
Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout
:facepalm:
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sue denim
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:05:00 -
[55]
WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO CAPITAL PROJECTILES
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Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:06:00 -
[56]
JUST PUT SUPERCARRIERS BACK TO WHAT ABATHUR HAD THEM AS YOU CAN NERF EM IF IT DONT WORK BUT PLAYERS ARE SAYING IT WILL.
If not CCP please take sov somewhere so AAA , Atlas , Goons , NC , PL can make a jooint campaign to come siege you into the darkage.
______________________________
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Erestas Drake
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:06:00 -
[57]
Well, the front page graphic surely needs some attention now. |
Barqs
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:06:00 -
[58]
Itll be a cold day in hell before my titan sits on a battlefield filled with dreads doing no dps.
Also if you think this is going to bring more titans on the field you guys truly are idiots.
Barqs-
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Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:07:00 -
[59]
CCP: Guys, don't worry, the new missiles will rock, because you can just target paint your target.
Us: CCP, you can't target paint sieged dreads, triaged carriers, MS, titans or POS mods, and capital fights do actually happen at close range
CCP: Oh poppy****, we know exactly how capital ships work, we wrote the code after all
Us: Have you ever flown an actually Dreadnought in a fight not on SiSi?
CCP: Well obviously not, why would we need to do that? We have access to all the code and data! Our spreadsheets tell us it is so!
Us: Uhhh, yah...
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Coranor
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:08:00 -
[60]
I have to say it.
This expansion could have been fantastic. But you have succeeded in completely turning around the spirit that was there when all the new features were announced.
You're balancing the sovereignty far too much in favour of the defender with this 2 hour variance **** for the reinforcement timers. May as well not have a variance at all if thats the case. At least with pos there was potential for human error ****ing up the stront timer or we could kite them. The new system doesn't open up 0.0 it closes it off even more. Only difference now is that you don't need to fuel pos.
You had the mom changes bang on and then ****ed it up and now you obviously just can't stop arguing about it. Nozh you need to pull your head out of your arse and listen to those who've actually played the ****ing game. The rest of you actually need to get out and play the game again yourselves too. I don't mean out in empire in small corps, you really need to get out into the big alliances. Hell you can all go play with goons for all i care but ****ing get out there so you can see how it all works at the basic level. If you don't do that then all you're doing is guessing.
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Arramis
Minmatar
ROMANIA Renegades
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:08:00 -
[61]
Nozh...my man...you "HAS" NO CLUE i mean "IS" CLUELESS when we talk about, caps and cap fights. PLEASE tell us how many times did you fly the Naglfar( for example) or how many times did you join a cap fight...to bring back the dual weapon bonuces after a ****ing nightmare debate to make it a COMPETITIVE (not GOOD, not THE BEST) dread on the battlefield, becouse it already lacks of TANK..becouse -1 med or low slot..compared to other dreads(this is a small insignifiant example).
ASK kittens here (the Mittani)..why the **** Naglfar get`s primaried allways in battles (is a verry simple answer) for example and what`s the average distance where CAP fights take place. And if you ask who is kittens in the first place...there you should resign and let Abathur do the job...he was really good..and I BET he`s playng EVE.
Please let us enjoy the game...and not hate the time and isk we invested in our capitals...THANKS!.
------------------------------------------
Manelele`s expresia clara a prostiei si inculturii romanesti. |
The Mittani
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:09:00 -
[62]
I don't even log into eve-online, a game about spaceships, and yet I know that you can't target paint supercaps or sieged dreads.
I also know, despite not being a player, that cap fights often take place within ridiculously short range.
Welp, this makes next week's column an easy topic. "New CCP vs Old CCP," something about how the older class of 'dev who doesn't know anything about the game' is managing to force out the newer, former-player devs with actual experience.
Sins of a Solar Spymaster: my ~fair and balanced~ column
TheMittani @ Twitter
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Glassback
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:10:00 -
[63]
What a complete and utter waste of time and resources.
Nozh, you should be ashamed of yourself. But at least you haven't made your original changes.
Now, just make the "I mucked it all up, sorry" and "Lets go with Abathers changes instead" post and go fishing for the next decade.
Regards
Glassback.
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Cera Minos
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:12:00 -
[64]
Seriously, what are you doing?
So basically, the only worthwhile change in this patch now is the projectile guns? A few weeks ago, everyone was looking forward to the mothership changes, then you post a frankly ridiculous list of changes which everyone hates, and your reaction is to basically go 'well, if you don't want the new changes, you're not getting anything'?
Did you forget to check the original changes into source control or something, and just don't want to admit to it?
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c0rn1
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:12:00 -
[65]
Originally by: The Mittani
The playerbase tested the new motherships over several weeks on SiSi and found them good.
Some genius put you in charge of Abathur's good work, and now you've not only screwed up all the effort that went into testing those ships, now there's to be no improvement at all.
Where is your credibility on caps? Who are you? Have you fought in a supercapital, lost a supercapital on the field?
Is this the new CCP, or the old CCP rearing its terrible, incompetent head?
WoW, I never thought in my whole eve-life I'd quote Mittani for good but here we go.
This man has it right!
cheers
c0rn1
P.S.: And trust me, this cost me quite an effort.
x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
Life's a waste of time ...
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Pringlescan
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:13:00 -
[66]
Don't worry I'm sure they will manage to work into their patch 6 months from now. Hope you guys are willing to wait!
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EvilweaselFinance
Weasel Enterprises Ltd
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:13:00 -
[67]
thats funny my comment seems to have dissapeared because some idiot doesn't know how to mod a forum
nozh: go back to whatever bar you stumbled out of this morning and get back to drinking without bothering anyone else
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Mikel Banks
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:13:00 -
[68]
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ you can lokta.org our posts but the little dude knows you are wrong.
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Battle Tested
Shiva
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:14:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Manfred Sideous
JUST PUT SUPERCARRIERS BACK TO WHAT ABATHUR HAD THEM AS YOU CAN NERF EM IF IT DONT WORK BUT PLAYERS ARE SAYING IT WILL.
If not CCP please take sov somewhere so AAA , Atlas , Goons , NC , PL can make a jooint campaign to come siege you into the darkage.
<3 this response....EVE Playerbase vs CCP |
Alice Celadon
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:14:00 -
[70]
Gosh. I'm beginning to worry about Nozh's emotional well-being. (Seriously) It's obvious he was misappropriated by someone in charge.
FIRE CCP NOZH'S BOSS!!!
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Toman Torax
Rage For Order
Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:14:00 -
[71]
Now deleting posts?
oh Marone a mi
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Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:14:00 -
[72]
just to ensure the points have been adequately made:
-the targets citadel missiles commonly engage cannot be target painted and thus the whole 'just target paint' thing is balderdash
-i have personally been in capfights where dreads have bounced off the opposing capital fleets while jumping in
-everybody hates the old split bonus naglfar what are you doing
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particle9
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:15:00 -
[73]
"deliberate more (with your help)"
how are you going to do that when we're all saying the same thing and you don't listen? by deleting almost half a page worth of posts in here? i'm glad i'm not you guys right now oh ho boy
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Angry Poster
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:15:00 -
[74]
Good call on not nerfing moms to hell and pushing back the release of the changes to that ship class. Now I only hope the system upgrades hold what they promise and I think dominion could work out quite well.
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Ilsea
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:15:00 -
[75]
As a previous mothership pilot, I was very excited that the ship class was finally going to be fixed so that a 30 billion isk sink that died in 2 min would in fact actually be useful. I dont know how many people had planned on actually buying and using super carriers post patch and using dreads/carriers to fight these ships.
As it stands right now you have done everything in which was wrong with the game when I first joined it. TITANS are now the most deadly ship in the game, they will kill any non expensively fit ms in 1 go. Dreads and carriers will melt to 5-6 titans being on the field at one time and without an alliance being able to field more then 5+ titans, you wont be taking space from people who do (pro tip: titans will **** gate disruptors without worry of dying to a hand full of dreads).
Motherships will get moth balled, as it stands right now in dominion as it plans to come out you have basically nerfed dread fights, ignored the mothership, and brought the titan back to its fame as the only class of ship to be used in a capital fight, pos siege or station camping.
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Capataz
Amarr
Oberon Incorporated
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:15:00 -
[76]
No comment just sucks...wts nyx and aeon...realy no words...oh wait..nah lol
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Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:16:00 -
[77]
Nozh doesn't need credentials, because some idiot manager at CCP put him in charge of things he doesn't even begin to understand. The fact that he stuck his foot so far down his throat that he's now sitting on it with his obvious "I've never flown a dread in a real fight in my life" comment is pretty telling.
I am so glad I sold my capital char yesterday, because CCP continues to put people in charge of game systems they don't have the foggiest clue about.
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The Mittani
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:16:00 -
[78]
Originally by: c0rn1
Originally by: The Mittani
The playerbase tested the new motherships over several weeks on SiSi and found them good.
Some genius put you in charge of Abathur's good work, and now you've not only screwed up all the effort that went into testing those ships, now there's to be no improvement at all.
Where is your credibility on caps? Who are you? Have you fought in a supercapital, lost a supercapital on the field?
Is this the new CCP, or the old CCP rearing its terrible, incompetent head?
WoW, I never thought in my whole eve-life I'd quote Mittani for good but here we go.
This man has it right!
cheers
c0rn1
P.S.: And trust me, this cost me quite an effort.
Since Nozh probably has no idea who c0rn1, Manfred, myself or Coranor is, we'll simply have to wait for the other devs and the community folks to recognize how deeply messed up you must be to have all of us nullsec people united in our condemnation of these changes.
We cannot agree about the color of the sky, yet we agree that Nozh has displayed a frightening incomprehension of the basic aspects of capital warfare in EVE, yet he's now in charge of it. We also agree that we liked Abathur's version of the mothership.
First time for everything.
Sins of a Solar Spymaster: my ~fair and balanced~ column
TheMittani @ Twitter
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Slapdash McGinty
Pronger Physics Research Dept.
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:16:00 -
[79]
This is amazing, the complete dismantling of anything positive gained on Sisi, with 2 WEEKS TO GO BEFORE LAUNCH!
Before you damage this game any furthur with your bumbling, you should push back release for a least a couple of weeks. s it stands right now the public backlash you'll receive from releasing this expansion in the shape it is now will by far outweigh the criticism you'll receive over a missed date. |
Hertford
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:17:00 -
[80]
Nozh, I hate to undermine your role model, but anything Zulupark suggests is probably not a good idea. |
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Pringlescan
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:18:00 -
[81]
Also not getting the hp boost and at the very least a bonus to fighter damage in the mean time is just the final insult to injury.
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CynoNet Two
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:18:00 -
[82]
Apologies to all the mothership producers who are currently building ships without yet taking payment. Nozh just screwed you out of billions that will be blown up thanks to the lack of Sov4 CSAA's and lack of people to buy these worthless space coffins.
But it's great you kept in the the Doomsday to 1-shot any mothership pilots who didn't read this blog! At least everyone gets ****ed over equally!
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Pattern Clarc
Blue Republic
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:19:00 -
[83]
What becomes of the Nag's bonuses?
____
Minmatar ship fixes... |
Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:20:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
What becomes of the Nag's bonuses?
5% projectile damage, 5% missile rof
so its actually worse than it was pre-update
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Zenst
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:21:00 -
[85]
Originally by: c0rn1
Originally by: The Mittani
The playerbase tested the new motherships over several weeks on SiSi and found them good.
Some genius put you in charge of Abathur's good work, and now you've not only screwed up all the effort that went into testing those ships, now there's to be no improvement at all.
Where is your credibility on caps? Who are you? Have you fought in a supercapital, lost a supercapital on the field?
Is this the new CCP, or the old CCP rearing its terrible, incompetent head?
WoW, I never thought in my whole eve-life I'd quote Mittani for good but here we go.
This man has it right!
cheers
c0rn1
P.S.: And trust me, this cost me quite an effort.
No effort here to agree totaly. Think thisvideo (very very work safe and short) sums up things.
But at the very least CCP should at least give the MOM's some EHP love if your changing damage dealing capitals, surely all that testing showed that was needed and worked. Slowly slowly catch the monkey; Totaly agree. Also better to release things working closer to ideal than being adrift and needing couple of patch's, I can respect that. But the EHP, c'mon. Bit of jump range love be nice as well, make them special.
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Rex Hargrove
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:21:00 -
[86]
This is a worse idea than walking in stations. I guess if you plan on ruining 0.0, it's time to start putting 100+ suicide BS in motsu and the other L4 mission running hubs.
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Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:22:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Vadinho
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
What becomes of the Nag's bonuses?
5% projectile damage, 5% missile rof
so its actually worse than it was pre-update
No way dude, you can just target paint stuff to make the new citadel torps do more damage! Ignoring the fact that over half of what a Naglfar normally shoots at can't be target painted because it's EWar immune.
But who are we to question Nozh, who knows so much about capital ships that he has informed us they actually don't fight at close range, and supposedly can be target painted in their primary fight modes.
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lydiazy
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:23:00 -
[88]
So one Blog says you want to see titans on the battlefield, the next says they are an 80bill logistics ship.
CCP you are a joke.
At least make a ship of that size/cost uber at one thing or the other(when you finaly make your idiotic minds up).
Not **** at both.
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Zardock
Reikoku
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:23:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Vuk Lau
I am speechless.
You Sir are clueless.
Indeed. Nozh seems to be taking the place of Funcom's Gaute.
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Shigsy
Ignition.
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:23:00 -
[90]
If you don't go through with the mom changes, then don't go through with the titan changes, or else you have just made 500ish vet accounts sit in a ship they can't use for 6 months without being instapopped.
Inappropriate language removed. Zymurgist
Join "C&P" ingame! |
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Battle Tested
Shiva
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:24:00 -
[91]
The one thing everyone agreed on with the mothership is survivability, at least give them the hp boost and work on fixing it's role/dps in a different patch. The first sighting of a MS will cause it to be hotdropped by titans and get instapopped. |
Serena Ku
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:24:00 -
[92]
Here goes another couple years with our motherships unchanged...
At least it's not changed into some cheap silly T2 lolcarrier.
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Toman Torax
Rage For Order
Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:24:00 -
[93]
Deleting posts is not helping, here. I think people have a right to be angry over something that was tested, deemed FINE, then you decided to throw it all away and start over.
So now we're not allowed to be upset over it? Using broad strokes and deleting posts you don't like isn't helping YOUR PAYING CUSTOMER'S perceptions that YOU GUYS screwed up and now are just trying to smooth it over the best you can.
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Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:25:00 -
[94]
Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: c0rn1
Originally by: The Mittani
The playerbase tested the new motherships over several weeks on SiSi and found them good.
Some genius put you in charge of Abathur's good work, and now you've not only screwed up all the effort that went into testing those ships, now there's to be no improvement at all.
Where is your credibility on caps? Who are you? Have you fought in a supercapital, lost a supercapital on the field?
Is this the new CCP, or the old CCP rearing its terrible, incompetent head?
WoW, I never thought in my whole eve-life I'd quote Mittani for good but here we go.
This man has it right!
cheers
c0rn1
P.S.: And trust me, this cost me quite an effort.
Since Nozh probably has no idea who c0rn1, Manfred, myself or Coranor is, we'll simply have to wait for the other devs and the community folks to recognize how deeply messed up you must be to have all of us nullsec people united in our condemnation of these changes.
We cannot agree about the color of the sky, yet we agree that Nozh has displayed a frightening incomprehension of the basic aspects of capital warfare in EVE, yet he's now in charge of it. We also agree that we liked Abathur's version of the mothership.
First time for everything.
Fistbumps Mittens
______________________________
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Grimpak
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:25:00 -
[95]
in my nearly 6 years of EVE, this must be the biggest, greatest back-pedalling I ever saw from CCP.
weeks of testing, feedback and whatnot, and the only thing that sucked on the supercarriers was the name itself.
changes on the titans to *finally* make them use more than just the DD in drive-bys and the jump portal, and reshuffling and balancing XL turrets, changes that were extensively tested and generally approved by everyone so that all of the sudden someone comes and "oh hey, this isn't good." and you axe pretty much a third of the new features of Dominion.
Really liked how you handled the Naglfar and pretty much reverted it to a worse state than before the changes that everyone asked.
also love how the phoenix will be able to do maximum damage to stuff no bigger than a medium control tower (honestly... )
and love how the titans will be brought as they are in test server while the other supercap class will be relegated to collection ships, parked somewhere in someone's parking alt logged off in space for 6 months more.
at least the projectile changes are in, altho it's still somewhat of a half-assed atempt to fix them.
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Aprudena Gist
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:25:00 -
[96]
I love how you continue to delete posts about things because one of your developers is a incompetent slobber drooling moron who couldn't get balance changes right if they were his job ( oh wait they are and he has no idea what he's doing )
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Tinator
Exile Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:26:00 -
[97]
CCP Nozh, EVE community demands your resignation...
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EvilweaselFinance
Weasel Enterprises Ltd
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:26:00 -
[98]
we have endless posts
nozh stumble back to the bar and drink your crippling idioticy away alone without ****ing anything up
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falcoon24
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:28:00 -
[99]
You can't be serious. Titans instapopping a 10b-ISK ship is just hilarious. Even with EHP-Buff MOMs would be quite useless. Without EHP-Buff they are just prisons for their owners. A few hundred people can now stay logged off for like 6 months.
If you had at least not removed ghost skilling...
What kind of evil plan is this?
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LoveKebab
Caldari
Shut Up And Play
WE FORM VOLTRON
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:28:00 -
[100]
Edited by: LoveKebab on 19/11/2009 23:30:37
lmao, 2 titans = dead ms - die in a fire whoever came up with those changes in 1st place...
Originally by: Saul Reaver
That's it. I've had it with this game. 
they saved ur mothership 09 tho :P
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
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ElvenLord
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:29:00 -
[101]
WTF? (I know I'm repeating myself)
but seriously, leaving MS as they are for 6 more months with all changes you made. What are the plans on compensating MS pilots for this and wtf are you doing?
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Irongut
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:29:00 -
[102]
Here's a new idea for Dominion... Nerf CCP so they can't screw up the game any further.
The fact that AAA, Goons, NC and IT are all in agreement that Dominion has gone down the toilet should give you a little hint that you've screwed it. Delay the patch, go back to the drawing board and figure out how to make your previous ideas work.
--
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Zenst
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:29:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Rex Hargrove
This is a worse idea than walking in stations. I guess if you plan on ruining 0.0, it's time to start putting 100+ suicide BS in motsu and the other L4 mission running hubs.
Maybe its CCP's plan to get people into 0.0 by having current 0.0 band together and circle then squeeze low-sec into the new 0.0.
A cunning plan to a conning problem.
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Bodega Cat
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:30:00 -
[104]
Where is the workflow pipeline for CCP's design department published?
I want to know why everyone keeps talking about these developer posts like we know who they are and what they really do at CPP. How do we even know the internet forum avatar Nozh can't log in as anyone he wants. How do we know that Nozh isn't actually just a doosher community manager dude who just publishes what someone from the design department emailed him this morning?
Trust me, no one in that industry just hands over the entire cap ship initiative to a different guy days before launch and lets him mess it all up.
I don't mean to confuse the issue here but i wish everyone would stop refering to these forum icons and the affiliated names as the singular parties responsible for the tripe presented.
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Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:31:00 -
[105]
It's pretty amazing that the thread is still moving forward despite your attempts to delete.. well.. pretty much every post made on the subject. Turn that deletion tool up to 11.
PS: No Nozh's.
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LoveKebab
Caldari
Shut Up And Play
WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:31:00 -
[106]
so what now ? :D wts Hel - 16bil ? :D
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
marxist revolutionary
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:31:00 -
[107]
Sounds like some great changes. Keep it up CCP!
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White Aero
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:32:00 -
[108]
WOW,
This is amazing. You finally do something that gets a lot of us old bitter eve vets all hot and bothered with the mothership changes and you completly screw it up. You have to know that many dozens of motherships/"supercarriers" are being built frantically before patch day. If I had wanted the same old crappy mothership I would have built one a long time ago. Yes I am emo, as I know many others are. Go back to the original plan that we all spent weeks testing and providing feedback on. Get your life sorted. And Nozh, I am sending Dastomy to your house!!!!!
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Zintrex
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:32:00 -
[109]
First of all i want to thank you for ruining my day completely CCP.
I was saving up and working like a mad man to get me a mom... but i guess thats not gonna happen.
then over to more constructive tyipng.
you say that the titans is the logistical backbone of the fleet.
well a titan is usualy NOT on the field,
and they will become primaly a anti cap weapons.
so what do we lack in the capital fleets?
They are named Motherships.
what can they do?
carry about dubble the ammount of ships compared to a carrier.
they can lauch some more drones,
and they have bonuses for gang support.
why not inprove on what they actualy are.
they are a MOTHERSHIP
give the moms better clone bays, bigger ship mainenance bays,
and give them some gang bonuses that cannot be done in cheaper ships like command ships,
maybe introduce gang modules that can help the dreads and carriers on the field.
example: a gang mod that gives all caps on grid a armor resist boost.
(exluding super caps ofcorse)
that way you get them on the battle field and they will be worth taking out.
we dont need a omfg dps super cap killer. we need a functioning Capital GANG support ship.
and ofcorse a waay better tank.
you will not get them on the field if they can be wiped out easy.
lastly a example on what i think shoud be possible with a Mothership.
we have a battle betwen 2 large capital fleets and their support fleets.
on one side we have lost a total of 9 dread so far and the support has lost a total of 7 battleships,
the mothership pilot in this fleet has a clone bay fitted and does have a total of 8 battleships and some smaller ships in his ship bay.
he activates his clone bay and lets the pilots that has already lost their primary ship in the battle clone jump to him,
yes the mothership will be forced to stay a while on the battlefield,
BUT he can help his side get inn vital reinforcements and maybe save a part of his fleet.
i know a lot of ppl dont like this idea, but i posted what I think shoud be done with a currently USELESS overpriced ship. |
ovenproofjet
Caldari
hirr
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:32:00 -
[110]
Seriously....I'm putting Abathur incharge of everything 0.0 He and he alone is the only one allowed to look at any changes relating to capitals, supercaps, captial weapons and sov.
Thank you, have a happy Abathur Day!
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CCP Zymurgist
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:32:00 -
[111]
Please keep your replies on topic. Remember, posting something that is not constructive will be removed.
Zymurgist
Community Representative
CCP Hf, EVE Online
Contact us |
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:33:00 -
[112]
You know, in the original 100+ page thread I made a comment that I viewed the original Dominion blog as a "punishment" for all the work 0.0 entities have forced CCP to do for lesser gain and benefit than developing stuff to keep the Empire dwellers happy and subscribed. Was I right, CCP? Sure seems that way now.
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Hazecat
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:33:00 -
[113]
CCP should really look at connecting Jove space so we can show them why they are so wrong.
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Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:33:00 -
[114]
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Please keep your replies on topic. Remember, posting something that is not constructive will be removed.
Then can you please explain the dozens of devblogs that are being reversed by some moron at YOUR company?
It's not my company being stupid, it's yours. If you don't like the backlash for YOUR customers I suggest you listen to them for a change.
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Hatsumi Kobayashi
Point Blank.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:34:00 -
[115]
You know, I think a lot of people were looking forward to Dominion.
See how I used the past tence here? Yeah.
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Kushmir
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:34:00 -
[116]
It is time for all of 0.0 too use those 5.0 sec status ratting characters to get into a t1 battleship and start jihading motsu and every other mission hub in high-sec.
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Rex Hargrove
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:34:00 -
[117]
Aprudena Gist
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:25:00 - [88] - Quote
Report
I love how you continue to delete posts about things because one of your developers is a incompetent slobber drooling moron who couldn't get balance changes right if they were his job ( oh wait they are and he has no idea what he's doing )
Reposting a post that has been deleted (and my post that was deleted).
I got copy past going right now, I can do this all day. I got definete proof above that you're deleting posts. <3
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Aeronith
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:34:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Zintrex
:words:
See? These changes are even making the pubbiest of pubbies cry.
Just don't delete his post, he obv. put a lot of effort into it.
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Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:34:00 -
[119]
Originally by: The Slayer
apparently this is no longer eveonline.com it is now lokta.org. How about having a discussion about stuff instead of just deleting posts CCP?
i dont even know whyre paying a moderator to delete disapproving posts when they could just walk outside and stick their heads in the snow and shout 'lalalala' for maybe half the price
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Aprudena Gist
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:35:00 -
[120]
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Please keep your replies on topic. Remember, posting something that is not constructive will be removed.
Can you please delete CCP Nozh's Blog post then. tyia.
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Brennah
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:35:00 -
[121]
Can you please just go ahead and teleport all the people telling you how horrible these changes are to jove space with no way back and then your conversion into being Sony Jr will be complete.
Also, rename Dominion NGE
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Telender
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:35:00 -
[122]
Quote:
(4:31:59 PM) jm24: wordwall posted
(4:32:04 PM) jm24: countdown to deletion
(4:32:09 PM) jm24: 10s
(4:32:26 PM) pony_on_the_porch: they deleted my post :(
(4:32:32 PM) jm24: they deleted 5 of mine
(4:32:33 PM) Aeronith: jesus **** that post
(4:32:39 PM) jm24: just keep posting
(4:32:43 PM) pony_on_the_porch: oh wait it's back
(4:32:52 PM) pony_on_the_porch: okay my post was #102
(4:32:55 PM) pony_on_the_porch: now its #96
(4:32:57 PM) SavageBastard: I have some pretty harsh posts early on that havent gotten deleted so far
(4:33:06 PM) rex_hargrove: so i'm copy pasting the deleted posts
(4:33:12 PM) rex_hargrove: i'll do this all night
Nobody is deleting anything guys nothing to see here move along.
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Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:35:00 -
[123]
TO THE THREADNAUGHT
TO THE THREADNAUGHT
TO THE THREADNAUGHT
TO THE THREADNAUGHT
TO THE THREADNAUGHT
TO THE THREADNAUGHT
TO THE THREADNAUGHT
TO THE THREADNAUGHT
TO THE THREADNAUGHT
TO THE THREADNAUGHT
TO THE THREADNAUGHT
TO THE THREADNAUGHT
TO THE THREADNAUGHT
TO THE THREADNAUGHT
TO THE THREADNAUGHT
TO THE THREADNAUGHT
TO THE THREADNAUGHT
TO THE THREADNAUGHT
TO THE THREADNAUGHT
TO THE THREADNAUGHT
TO THE THREADNAUGHT
TO THE THREADNAUGHT
RAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGEEEEEEE
______________________________
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Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:35:00 -
[124]
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Please keep your replies on topic. Remember, posting something that is not constructive will be removed.
Yes, completely ignoring the fact that we spent months posting constructive ideas on the subject, only to have the brilliant Nozh here tell us they are all crap and he is throwing away what was considered excellent work by the devs and community alike.
So yah, we definitely need to post MORE constructive stuff that you will ignore and/or lotka.org delete.
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Karbowiak
Caldari
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:35:00 -
[125]
Deleting posts ain't helping.
Motherships wont be anything but big, flashy suicide ships now.. show up in a Mothership in lowsec, and you have personally alerted any big alliance in 50 jump radius, and if you arent carefull - OH SNAP.. Dead Mom..
Atleast give the mothership its eHP bonus, then sort out the fighterbombers and such later...
In all honesty tho, why change what was so good? it makes no sense at all...
Co-Owner and Creator of EVSCO |
Katsura Kotonoha
Caldari
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:35:00 -
[126]
Why you gotta **** on my mommy ccp
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The Slayer
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:36:00 -
[127]
Heres something constructive then : Why were these changes reversed when the majority of the playerbase was happy with the changes suggested at fanfest and tested pre dominion? Why was Abathur removed from being in charge of this when he seemed to know what he was talking about?
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Tappits
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:38:00 -
[128]
Right So let me get this right you Nerf? Titans so thay have a anti cap DD mod
then you boosted supper carriers HP so thay can last longer and not be insta poped by 2-3 titans
then you renerf MoMs and say your not doing anything but are leaveng an anti mothership guns+DD on titans but no HP boost on MoMs mmm yer good plan ?????
whos going to be 1st to DD a mom then come pach time????
Realy CCP you need to start thinking about things first.
----------------------------------------------
Pro BOB?????
I fail At forums |
Minmatar citizen4561451
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:38:00 -
[129]
so...lemme get this right. A FOUR HUNDRED page thread when the nano nerf was about to hit wasnt enough to change your minds about that game change, but a FORTY page thread with FOUR HUNDRED (a fraction of your paying users) pilots crying for a non-change is?
Nice priorities CCP, nice priorities.
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Aeronith
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:39:00 -
[130]
A competent design decision from Nozh
__OR__
This thread reaching, and staying at page 5
Neither of these things are likely to happen, but I'd bet on the latter first
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CobraStylez
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:39:00 -
[131]
Edited by: CobraStylez on 19/11/2009 23:44:45
Originally by: Jack Gates
[Quote=CCP Zymurgist]Please keep your replies on topic. Remember, posting something that is not constructive will be removed.
you mean posting things that don't point out how ccp screwed up isn't "on topic," even though that's very much the topic, and you guys are only trying to give it some kind of healthy spin. You don't want to deal with the backlash, it's plainly obvious, so don't **** on my leg and tell me it's raining.
I am very disappointed in this, hopefully someone can review this before Dec 1.
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skidoo
Amarr
Macabre Votum
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:40:00 -
[132]
Well, at least now i know why only CCP has access to the 'Jove' ships. Cause at this very moment with IT and Goonswarm + other big name alliances agreeing on one thing... CCP is going to need em before we take over the game 0_o
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Irongut
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:40:00 -
[133]
Thanks for deleting my posts CCCP, good job I made a copy of them first...
So everything that was good in Dominion has now been canceled and all we're left with is the crap? Good job CCP.
If you can't get it finished for 1st Dec you should have put the release date back a month, or more if necessary. There would be nothing wrong with that. While you're at it sack Nozh and put Abathur back in charge of the supercap changes, at least he knows what he's doing.
--
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LoveKebab
Caldari
Shut Up And Play
WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:40:00 -
[134]
hmm i wonder about 1 thing tho...
Is Hel gonna stay with that ****ed up bonus ? (-5% rr/r-shield cycle per lvl?) - cuz it's kinda fail, u could at least change that bonus to whatever it was supose to be after dominion - fighters HP or something like that ..
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Telender
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:40:00 -
[135]
AAA, Tri, IT and Goonswarm all agreeing both in tone and substance. Obviously this is just some Goon ploy to be obstructionist jerks and not angry responses from customers who actively play your game and apparently understand it a little better than you do.
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Deva Blackfire
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:40:00 -
[136]
lol this is even funnier than i imagined
tho shame,id love to have pocket mothership that can dock (aka imbamobile)
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Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:40:00 -
[137]
Originally by: casai
i think its time to get a live Q&A between the devs and the CSM soo we can all watch
If this incident doesn't prove to you that the CSM is a total farce that will be ignore the first time a dev that has no clue what he's talking about decides he wants to make a pet change, nothing will.
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Lilly Tigress
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:41:00 -
[138]
sometimes im wondering if you devs actually have a clue of the current gameplay, reading the devblog now just gave me the fact you dont...
seriously are you all on crack and eating caviar all day long instead of using the money we customers throw on you month for month?
keeping moms like they are is just plain stupid as well as changing titans the way they are now on sisi, a 80 bill coffin not able to do **** is excellent isk sink mechanics, thank you for that
hopefully nozh gets fired and dwells like a bum the rest of his life.
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Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:42:00 -
[139]
Wow CCP so titans with the dps of a dread. RF timers with 2 hour variance. Now like terrible terrible deving on the MOM. Has CCP thought about a drug abuse policy or drug testing? I might be able to point someone out who needs some testing.
Motherships will now be 1 shotted by TITANS are you understanding this?
So now they have 0 chance of doing anything other than sitting in a pos.
You are a failure at game development Nozh. Play the game and learn about what you are actually impacting before you try to play in a sandbox you dont have a clue about.
______________________________
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Drac Retsam
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:42:00 -
[140]
Has Nozh ever played eve-online before?? Maybe he can paint new warp trails or something instead of ruining ships.
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Kernok
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:42:00 -
[141]
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Please keep your replies on topic. Remember, posting something that is not constructive will be removed.
mebbe you could remove all the posts regarding dominion then
kthx for exodus II
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Greg DaimYo
Caldari
Biotronics Inc.
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:43:00 -
[142]
I got scammed by CCP. :sadface:
Will skill the necessary skills like JDC 5 and park the char at a deep safe and wait for better days.
Thanks and good night,
Greg
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scrapironfish
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:43:00 -
[143]
Quote:
we need to do is take a few steps back, deliberate more (with your help), go through more testing (also with your help) and really perfect the Mothership redesign.
We are trying to help...
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Mr Adebisi
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:43:00 -
[144]
To think I was saving all those iskies to get my toon in a mommyship.
WTS officer smarties 
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CobraStylez
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:44:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Jack Gates
[Quote=CCP Zymurgist]Please keep your replies on topic. Remember, posting something that is not constructive will be removed.
you mean posting things that don't point out how ccp screwed up isn't "on topic," even though that's very much the topic, and you guys are only trying to give it some kind of healthy spin. You don't want to deal with the backlash, it's plainly obvious, so don't **** on my leg and tell me it's raining.
I am very disappointed in this, hopefully someone can review this before Dec 1.
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jm24
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:44:00 -
[146]
These changes do nothing to address the previously stated problems with the OP's arguements. The new changes were exciting and being well received but somehow someone made the call to totally revamp what was already being tested.
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bloody johnroberts
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:44:00 -
[147]
lol motherships no changes no fighterbombers
change to sov no more pos warfare lol just shoot the flag instead no difference
can we change the name from dominion to dust as it seems they will be just as bad
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Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:45:00 -
[148]
**** you guys - My motherships jumping a shark on a motorcycle post was awesome and you guys ruined it. This is even more insulting than your blatant pandering to the people who make the ships over the people who fly them.
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Ikoma Sunblazer
Caldari
Einherjar Rising
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:45:00 -
[149]
CCP mods received a CTA from the higher ups informing them of the upcoming devblog, I think they are losing the battle of eve community vs ccp
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Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:46:00 -
[150]
Remember boys and girls, posting how terrible these changes are is not "on topic". Only posts that tell Nozh and CCP how awesome they, and these changes, are will be accepted. Thank you for your time.
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EvilweaselFinance
Weasel Enterprises Ltd
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:46:00 -
[151]
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Please keep your replies on topic. Remember, posting something that is not constructive will be removed.
posts for the post throne
delete this
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Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:46:00 -
[152]
Never stop posting
Never stop, umm, not doing anything at all CCP, WTG chaps!
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Ka'lorn Font'a
Amarr
Reikoku
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:50:00 -
[153]
Edited by: Ka''lorn Font''a on 19/11/2009 23:53:45
Good job Nozh! 18b on the market for a ship that can now be instapopped by 2-3 Titans.
Seriously Nozh, get out of our internet spaceships and get yourself a clue on game design/balance. Put Seleene back in charge of sorting this **** out. He actually has a semblence of a clue.
Whilst your at it, take whoever your Supervisor is with you. Whoever approved these changes for release is ******ed too.
Accounts: Cancelled until you sort this **** out.
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LoveKebab
Caldari
Shut Up And Play
WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:50:00 -
[154]
Why in the world cant u make some normal changes?! Is that so ****ing hard ?!
- Fighters bandwidth - 25mbit/sec
- Bombers bandwidth - 50mbit/sec
- Give them HP boost - it's a ****ing supercapital, same as goddamn titan...
- Keep them in space - it's a ****ing supercapital, same as goddamn titan...
- Leave the current build cost, or lower it SLIGHTLY to compensate the removing (if u actually gonna remove it at any point) the ECM Burst...
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Rex Hargrove
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:50:00 -
[155]
Another deleted post. I feel special. Seriously, any time most of 0.0 can quit their bickering and agree that something is bad, CCP should probably listen. It's not like we play the game or drive the bad ass stories of wide scale warfare that give you free publicity. Clearly we know nothing about combat in eve.
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Lilly Tigress
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:50:00 -
[156]
Edited by: Lilly Tigress on 19/11/2009 23:51:07
seriously im displeased with that changes in any form
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scrapironfish
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:50:00 -
[157]
So back on topic.
Quote:
Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances.
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Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:51:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Manfred Sideous
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Please keep your replies on topic. Remember, posting something that is not constructive will be removed.
Didn't want those subscribers anyway
It's part of their strategy for handling the feedback to this thread - If there are no subscribers there can be no feedback.
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Epofhis
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:51:00 -
[159]
This is not the change we were looking for. I was looking foward to finally starting to use that MS blueprint I've been sitting on for a while. *Blows off dust, throws BP in garbage.*
Other than that, some of the changes in Dominion are great. If you own a titan.
WTB: Titan.
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Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:51:00 -
[160]
It's a good thing CCP isn't a shareholding company |
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Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:51:00 -
[161]
Quote:
we need to do is take a few steps back, deliberate more (with your help), go through more testing (also with your help) and really perfect the Mothership redesign.
Right cause you have proved in the past your willing to listen to any group of your players, aside from isk farmers, and empire dwellers. You listened to well the first time around, let's do it again.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result from the last time.
Screw you, you have our feedback now fire that tard, and then start using it.
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Karbowiak
Caldari
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:51:00 -
[162]
'The Titans primary value should be as a fleet's logistical backbone. Although this vision has not been fully realized, it continues to be the goal. They shouldn't become the ultimate choice when it comes to direct damage, a seat already occupied by Dreadnoughts'
So.. A Titan should not rival a dreadnought in firepower ?..
Well, Pwnray (OMG Laser, whatever you wanna call it) + the 500% bonus to capital guns isn't out damaging a Dread?.. well **** me..
A Titan doesnt even get the siege penalty a dread gets, and it gets a 500% gun dmg. bonus.. GJ ^^
Co-Owner and Creator of EVSCO |
Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:52:00 -
[163]
Originally by: scrapironfish
So back on topic.
Quote:
Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances.
He's right you know, they never happen at close range. Ever. No, really. Why are you laughing at me? I am serious.
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EvilweaselFinance
Weasel Enterprises Ltd
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:52:00 -
[164]
nozh I sincerely hope you didn't quit your day job for this
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ovenproofjet
Caldari
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:52:00 -
[165]
Listen to YOUR CUSTOMERS!
That is all for now....
P.S FREE ABATHUR
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Jenna Mai
Omega Technology
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:52:00 -
[166]
I am seriously wondering if Nozh is living in the same world we are. Cap fleet fights rarely if ever happen at close range?? I never been in a cap fleet battle that didn't!! And by bringing in the new DD but leaving out the MS hitpoint increase you have just guaranteed they will never be used I mean what nutter would take out a 15 billion isk ship that can be one shot instapopped by a Titan!! At least use SOME common sense and leave out the Titan change until you decide to buff the MS's hitpoint. I'm frankly disgusted by the lack of knowledge or foresight CCP is showing here.
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Davy Vain
Gallente
H A V O C
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:52:00 -
[167]
:( Wish I didnt pay up my alt account so far.
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Severion Atarkos
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:52:00 -
[168]
Edited by: Severion Atarkos on 19/11/2009 23:53:44
Wow, can you backpedal any faster? Thanks for at least not ruining the ships even more then you were.
Now who are you and why are you in charge of the supercap project? You can't paint a seiged dread or supercap. The fact that you made that priceless qutoe ~Capital fights rarely happen at close range~ is an alarm to CCP that you are infact clueless and should be removed from ruining the game anymore.
Bring back sel and abathurs changes because they will actually work. Don't put off the changes for another 6-12 months. If abathurs changes don't work then just patch it and put it back to its current changes.
You took something that was very exciting and stepped on it, and now you just ****ed on it and lite it on fire.
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Tinator
Exile Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:53:00 -
[169]
Really, all I would ask is 150-200% hitpoint boost for moms, and 20% fighter damage per level (25% nyx) - so they would be atleast somewhat useful... instead of going "oh look titans, *pop*"
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Agent Known
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:53:00 -
[170]
Wait...you'll have to use target painters to hit stuff with citadel torps? Last I checked TPs are e-war, and all capitals in siege/triage aside from titan/mom are immune...so...
On another note, I also have an annoying sig.
inaftertimeflux |
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Verlai
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:53:00 -
[171]
Quote:
Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances.
Well of course they didn't, short range XL guns couldn't hit POSes!
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
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Jack Gates
Gallente
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:53:00 -
[172]
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ CCP is some rude dudes ~ li'l dude, 2009
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Moon Kitten
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:53:00 -
[173]
Keep up the good work CCP. Don't listen to all the whiners in this thread. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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Ntrails
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:53:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Xessej
Strongly suggest a roll back to the supercap designs of 3 or 4 weeks ago or delay the patch till new and improved improvements (not stealth nerfs labeled improvements) can be tested and delivered.
Roll back the whole expansion for a while, and get a complete, effective package.
Oh, and put someone who knows something about null-sec cap warfare in charge of it.
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ is pretty worried at the moment.
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Mikel Banks
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:53:00 -
[175]
jm24
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:52:00 - [169] - Quote
Report
stop deleting the little guy ٩๏̯͡๏)۶
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Hertford
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:54:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Moon Kitten
Keep up the good work CCP. Don't listen to all the whiners in this thread. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
And if it is broke... oh wait |
Spifflonius
BoB Enterprises
Veni Vidi Vici
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:54:00 -
[177]
Originally by: The Mittani
Oh, by the way, you talked about painters in your blog, Nozh. You may not know this, but you can't paint a sieged dread, mothership or Titan. Hope this helps.
Quoting Goonswarm!
Can I ask the devs working on capital balancing to go and do some homework and work out BASIC capital ship mechanics.
Only thing on a capital battlefield that could be painted is a carrier (lets assume the dreads are seiged when they are shooting other capitals ok?) and carriers are the minority on the modern capital battlefield so this entire thing of "needing" to use painters to make Citadel Torpedos effective is completely ridiculous.
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Natas Ignis
Caldari
Bene Dominus Knights
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:54:00 -
[178]
Not that anyone is likely to read this at the rate this thread is building, but my impression is that a high group in ccp has decided they don't like the entire idea of tier 2 carriers, and so they started looking at going in a different direction.
Sure, from our point of view it looks random and messy, but to them it could be as simple as a single board meeting.
I don't like this wishy washy-ness any better than anyone else, but i do think that ccp is trying to do what is best for the game, but also trying to keep it congruent with their ideal of things.
Also to throw something at people *****ing about the XL gun changes, remember that they made short range guns BETTER. I think if you re-read what they were typing about (like the now infamous short range cap fight comment) its likely they were implying that people don't use short range GUNS in cap fights, they always fit the long range guns. They fixed that, so I fail to see what the issue is there.
Missiles though are a problem, on Battleship hulls torps work because you can target paint your targets. Without that capability, XL torps will fail.
Using bad missile changes before tests as the basis for the naglfar nurf is a bad idea.
----To long, so to recap ----
-CCP loves eve, even when they drop the ball.
-tier 2 carriers not what they intended.
-XL guns, especially short range ones better now, so stop *****ing about the way he phrased the comment
-XL missiles, bad idea
-leave the naglfar alone
-MoM ehp boost of like 30-40% in the mean time is a good idea
-if you read this, you are either angry or bored.
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Scouty McScoutersen
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:54:00 -
[179]
these changes rule! resubbing my main because of this :D
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John Zorg
Caldari
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:54:00 -
[180]
I better get reimbursed if I lose my "Super Mothership" to a Double Titan Doomsday. You guys had great changes to start with and now you guys pull out of it? What is this game really for you developers??? It's all about the money clearly. Us players that have reached end game just get skrewed over time and again.
Pathetic...
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Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:55:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
Nozh: Does marketing know that you're ****ing up all their good work with your terrible posting?
seriously the marketing division of ccp should go start their own company called 'the not-****ty part of ccp, ltd.' theyd be a smashadillo
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Slapdash McGinty
Pronger Physics Research Dept.
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:55:00 -
[182]
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ says that he doesn't approve of these changes as his mothership pilot will have to go back to his carrier if he wants to do anything.
Frankly I think he plays too much EVE but I'm not going to disagree with him on this.
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Jackson Brown
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:55:00 -
[183]
I really like the XL turrent changes as well as the new citadel cruise and torp changes. Can't say I care about Motherships either way.
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Katsura Kotonoha
Caldari
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:55:00 -
[184]
Quote:
This means NO CHANGES WILL BE MADE IN DOMINION. Since they are part of the original rebalancing effort, the DEPLOYMENT OF ALL IDEAS WILL BE POSTPONED.
____/
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
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mjed mazga
Epiphyte Mining and Exploration
Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:55:00 -
[185]
CCP wants EVE to get smaller, by ****ing off as many of their active, spending member base as possible. This is the only way to get 0.0 more populated, which is their stated goal with Dominion. Riiiiight...
Thanks CCP for the big **** you to the entire player base. Keep it coming!
*waits for the entire dominion patch to get delayed/nerfed/reworked*
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kossaw
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:55:00 -
[186]
Edited by: kossaw on 19/11/2009 23:58:04
Quote:
However, we are going to continue refining their schematics, keep our welding torches hot and you should see them undocking from the shipyards again once we and the community are happy with their balancing.
The community and the original CCP designers were perfectly happy with the proposed S-C changes so this statement makes no sense.
Just delete this dev blog instead and put S-C's back they way they were on SiSi 3 weeks ago
Edit: spelling. I'm just so emo that I can't even get these few words right
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Ka'lorn Font'a
Amarr
Reikoku
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:56:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
Originally by: ovenproofjet
Listen to YOUR CUSTOMERS!
That is all for now....
P.S FREE ABATHUR
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME
Posting to agree with a Goon. What the **** is the world coming too?
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DeTox MinRohim
Madhatters Inc.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:56:00 -
[188]
Little dude says...
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ "Oups?"
Bad mom -> Good mom -> Fail Mom -> Bad mom...
So hum... When is the "Good mom" coming back?
------
This sig space is Read-only !
omgalink - Online Skillsheet |
Katerina M
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:56:00 -
[189]
Excellent changes to motherships, how many LPs to get one Nozh?
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Serena Ku
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:56:00 -
[190]
Oh about the statement "capital fights rarely if ever happen at short range", I think someone watched one too many "picture perfect" EVE battle movies and not actual in-game capital fights.
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jm24
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:56:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Mikel Banks
jm24
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:52:00 - [169] - Quote
Report
stop deleting the little guy ٩๏̯͡๏)۶
We are telling you the changes are bad, you should take heed and listen. Shredding the comment box is not exactly customer service
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Evion
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:57:00 -
[192]
If I were a MOM pilot I would go kill myself. Luckily I am not. Do you try to get rid of lag by getting rid of your players (I guess, most MOM pilots are at least dual-boxing...).
But well, If you ruin your company, you can still ask your government for money... Oh wait... (only works for banks and car companies)
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Aeronith
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:57:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Moon Kitten
Keep up the good work CCP. Don't listen to all the whiners in this thread. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
So this is where you learned to moderate, I see.
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Rex Hargrove
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:57:00 -
[194]
Edited by: Rex Hargrove on 19/11/2009 23:57:55
HAY GUYS, YOU'LL FORGET ALL ABOUT THIS WHEN YOU'RE PLAYING DUST514 ON YOUR XBOX 360!
WALKING IN STATIONS!!!
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Hertford
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:57:00 -
[195]
Edited by: Hertford on 20/11/2009 00:03:41
Originally by: The Mittani
Oh, by the way, you talked about painters in your blog, Nozh. You may not know this, but you can't paint a sieged dread, mothership or Titan. Hope this helps.
In case you just go around deleting posts without reading them, I've used a yellow Target Painter in the vain hope one of your game design team reads that sentence before the lokta.org happens. |
Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:58:00 -
[196]
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME
PS: You can delete this but I can just repost it over and over. You can ban this account but I have others. 
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Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:58:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Agent Known
Wait...you'll have to use target painters to hit stuff with citadel torps? Last I checked TPs are e-war, and all capitals in siege/triage aside from titan/mom are immune...so...
Hey, hey. Watch it now mister. Bringing up the actual facts of how the game plays is not on topic, or constructive. If Nozh tells us cap fights never happen at closer range, and super caps + sieged/traiged caps can be target painted, it's because it's true.
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Hatsumi Kobayashi
Point Blank.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:58:00 -
[198]
With the only welcome features being the removal of the AoE doomsday and the faction ship boost, i'm amazed you can even refer to Dominion as an expansion.
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Nongbong Fongrong
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:59:00 -
[199]
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ this little dude does not agree with these changes one bit and neither do I
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Jack Gates
Gallente
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.19 23:59:00 -
[200]
Edited by: Jack Gates on 19/11/2009 23:59:54
Originally by: DeTox MinRohim
Little dude says...
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ "Oups?"
Bad mom -> Good mom -> Fail Mom -> Bad mom...
So hum... When is the "Good mom" coming back?
ccp, please delete this asap as it isn't constructive and if pubbies get ahold of li'l dude, he will be ruined forever
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ OH GOD SAVE ME li'l dude 2009
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Ntrails
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:00:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Nongbong Fongrong
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ this little dude does not agree with these changes one bit and neither do I
Could that be cause ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ has seen more actual cap-fleet action than the person currently making a hash of the whole thing?
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Slap Chop
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:01:00 -
[202]
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ thinks this is an outrage!
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Moon Kitten
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:01:00 -
[203]
Edited by: Moon Kitten on 20/11/2009 00:04:06
If the choice is between mother ships with 60 million hp that could play undock games and mother ships remaining the same no change is the better alternative. Lets not repeat the mistake of adding something as unbalanced as remote cyno doomsday titans again. You know in your heart of hearts that I'm right.
CCP Nozh, stay strong you've made the right decision.
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Nongbong Fongrong
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:01:00 -
[204]
I've actually seen ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ in local when cap fights were happening. trufax
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Yuhna
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:01:00 -
[205]
I was hoping for HOT MOMS !! bastards.
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Manfred Rickenbocker
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:01:00 -
[206]
Ok, looking at the damage graphs for long range weapons, you nerfed Rails a bit too much:
1) The damage nerf was too much compared to Giga-Lasers. You lack factoring in that hybrid weapons have to reload. While good for short engagements, capital engagements rarely are, so the current difference is rendered moot. Give them back their damage.
2) You nerfed their range by 10km (101 to 91) while leaving Giga-Lasers at their 121km optimal. This is BAD. If we switch to longer-range ammo to reach targets on the battlefield, the damage advantage is destroyed more so than we gain in range. (I wont discuss projectiles because Ill leave this for the last point).
3) The falloff on Rails matches Beams... this is BAD. Rails always have more falloff than Lasers. Rails are supposed to be the longest range option which is now heartily stolen by projectiles. Rails Optimal + Falloff should be greater than that of the Beams Optimal + Falloff, even if damage get lower quicker.
4) Under no circumstances does it seem like you should use something other than Projectiles now in long range combat. DREADS CANT MOVE IN SIEGE! If you are outside your range, tough nuts because you cant reposition for 15 minutes. And if the sides decide to go for a super-long-range battle, the only competitive weapons will be Projectiles. Even Cruises cant hit past 150 in the new system (baseline values). If you position your dread fleet before a fleet of Naggles, they will just sit outside range AND outdamage you at that range, giving them 15 minutes of free shooting at you. This is stupid and overpowered.
------------------------
Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times. |
Galler FLAke
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:02:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Jack Gates
Edited by: Jack Gates on 19/11/2009 23:59:54
Originally by: DeTox MinRohim
Little dude says...
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ "Oups?"
Bad mom -> Good mom -> Fail Mom -> Bad mom...
So hum... When is the "Good mom" coming back?
ccp, please delete this asap as it isn't constructive and if pubbies get ahold of li'l dude, he will be ruined forever
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ OH GOD SAVE ME li'l dude 2009
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
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DeTox MinRohim
Madhatters Inc.
The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:02:00 -
[208]
Edited by: DeTox MinRohim on 20/11/2009 00:02:16
Originally by: Jack Gates
Edited by: Jack Gates on 19/11/2009 23:59:54
Originally by: DeTox MinRohim
Little dude says...
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ "Oups?"
Bad mom -> Good mom -> Fail Mom -> Bad mom...
So hum... When is the "Good mom" coming back?
ccp, please delete this asap as it isn't constructive and if pubbies get ahold of li'l dude, he will be ruined forever
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ OH GOD SAVE ME li'l dude 2009
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ is SHOCKED!!! that you think my post isn't constructive......
....
.......... he he...
------
This sig space is Read-only !
omgalink - Online Skillsheet |
EvilweaselFinance
Weasel Enterprises Ltd
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:02:00 -
[209]
more posts for the post throne
you can't delete them all
fire nozh
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Mikel Banks
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:02:00 -
[210]
z
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Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:02:00 -
[211]
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Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:02:00 -
[212]
I've.. seen things.. you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. Well thought out and implemented changes made by CCP with the informed consent of their player... gahahaha..
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
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Hertford
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:02:00 -
[213]
0
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CobraStylez
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:02:00 -
[214]
Edited by: CobraStylez on 20/11/2009 00:04:27
r we going to see any comment from our dear Devs on any of these concerns?
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ " " " ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿̿̿̿̿̿̿'̿'\̵͇̿̿\=((ò̪●))=/̿̿& |
Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:03:00 -
[215]
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ wants to walk in his Mothership since he wont be putting it on the battlefield to get instapopped by titans |
Aprudena Gist
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:03:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Aprudena Gist
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Please keep your replies on topic. Remember, posting something that is not constructive will be removed.
Can you please delete CCP Nozh's Blog post then. tyia.
quoting myself cause i'm like that
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:03:00 -
[217]
Originally by: Mikel Banks
z
0
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Aeronith
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:03:00 -
[218]
r
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Br0ke
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:03:00 -
[219]
R
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EvilweaselFinance
Weasel Enterprises Ltd
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:03:00 -
[220]
0
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jm24
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:03:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Mikel Banks
z
o
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Scelestus Vereor
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:03:00 -
[222]
Wow. It's kind of surprising, really. After all the huge amounts of change promised for this expansion, in the end we get some new planets, a new IGB, and a new evemail client.
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Slapdash McGinty
Pronger Physics Research Dept.
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:03:00 -
[223]
z
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EvilweaselFinance
Weasel Enterprises Ltd
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:04:00 -
[224]
0
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:04:00 -
[225]
any word on the naglfar returning to prehistoric ****tyness?
-
putting the gist back into logistics |
White Aero
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:04:00 -
[226]
Please don't remove my image. This is my interpritation of the new "supercarriers". How is this NOT constructive....
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Mikel Banks
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:04:00 -
[227]
r
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Rex Hargrove
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:04:00 -
[228]
Edited by: Rex Hargrove on 20/11/2009 00:04:14
z
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Ilsea
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:04:00 -
[229]
0
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EvilweaselFinance
Weasel Enterprises Ltd
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:04:00 -
[230]
r
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Jack Gates
Gallente
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:04:00 -
[231]
Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: c0rn1
Originally by: The Mittani
The playerbase tested the new motherships over several weeks on SiSi and found them good.
Some genius put you in charge of Abathur's good work, and now you've not only screwed up all the effort that went into testing those ships, now there's to be no improvement at all.
Where is your credibility on caps? Who are you? Have you fought in a supercapital, lost a supercapital on the field?
Is this the new CCP, or the old CCP rearing its terrible, incompetent head?
WoW, I never thought in my whole eve-life I'd quote Mittani for good but here we go.
This man has it right!
cheers
c0rn1
P.S.: And trust me, this cost me quite an effort.
Since Nozh probably has no idea who c0rn1, Manfred, myself or Coranor is, we'll simply have to wait for the other devs and the community folks to recognize how deeply messed up you must be to have all of us nullsec people united in our condemnation of these changes.
We cannot agree about the color of the sky, yet we agree that Nozh has displayed a frightening incomprehension of the basic aspects of capital warfare in EVE, yet he's now in charge of it. We also agree that we liked Abathur's version of the mothership.
First time for everything.
٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶ SMOKE WEED ٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶ EVERY DAY ٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶ 420420420420420420420 ٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶ 420 SMOKE WEED ٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶
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AJ Regard
FinFleet
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:05:00 -
[232]
I think it was a very good blog for numerous reasons.
The way they were headed with motherships was just silly.
The whole point as they said themselves was to define the class of each capital ship more, and making it an uber tanked capital killer just doesn't make any sense no matter how you look at it.
Realizing they ****ed it up this close to patch day, and starting over was the right decision, so kudos for doing it.
The way dreads are functioning now is also kinda ******ed.
Dropping a cap fleet (even without carriers) into battleship fight is pretty much instant win.
Out of siege dreads shoot bs's quite well.
With these changes that means dropping dreads in a bs fight wont matter squad.
Together with the removal of DD in its current form, this will make fleet fights more enjoyable imo, and open up ways for new tactics.
I am happy they changed the titans to 100% bonus damage only.
Having the changed DD and 200% on turrets would just be to insane if you dropped for example 5+ **** on a field.
Especially considering the increased ehp.
Sum up: stop whining, they ****ed up with the mom, the rest is fine, get over it!
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Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:05:00 -
[233]
Great work CCP, your excessive deleting drove this thread to the point where the only constructive criticism we can make is z0r cha-
z
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Slapdash McGinty
Pronger Physics Research Dept.
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:05:00 -
[234]
z
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Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:05:00 -
[235]
Originally by: Scelestus Vereor
Wow. It's kind of surprising, really. After all the huge amounts of change promised for this expansion, in the end we get some new planets, a new IGB, and a new evemail client.
And a new sov system that's not even remotely close to what they promised us and mostly reviled by actual nullsec entities, most of which feel they got a bait and switch.
Like I said earlier, I'm sure glad I cashed out on my capital character yesterday, before you posted this terrible blog. I got top dollar before capital pilots EVE wide realized you guys were going to screw up capital ships to the nth degree. Thanks for at least waiting a day to post this.
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Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:05:00 -
[236]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
any word on the naglfar returning to prehistoric ****tyness?
well the bad part is its split weapons bonuses are now worse than they were before it just had a turret bonus, but on the plus side, now you get to train three seperate weapon skills (large projectile, torpedoes, cruises) to five to be less effective than any other given dread
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Aphrodite Whiterose
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:06:00 -
[237]
God damnit CCP nearly everyone said the original mom changes were the best there was no need to change them back to how they are now. You have made them useful and then ruined them once again to the point they are a completely useless ship.
At least give them the HP buff ffs.
-----------------------------------------------
Amarr - Playing EVE in Hardcore Mode since 2007 |
Isaac Starstriker
Amarr
The Confederate Navy
Forever Unbound
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:06:00 -
[238]
*fake edit* Never mind, there is no point in defending CCP against you guys as you won't listen. I really hope all of you emo-rage-quit. It'll sure be nicer to read forums that don't contain so much hate and anger. Seriously, get over yourselves. Your not CCP, your not their Devs, I am happy they decided to postpone the changes even if I don't own one. While the original implementation may have been a "great idea" to you guys, obviously CCP found something that didn't fit right.
Oh and the "I am a paying customer" is so bullcrap. If you truly are, quit in defiance. There are a bunch of other MMOs out there, you don't have to stay. The obligatory: "Can I haz your stuffs?"
"You can be late a little while, but you can suck forever". Apparently CCP subscribes to this theory. You guys should too.
To CCP. Thank you for informing us of what your thoughts are behind the capital changes. Its a pity your not changing the MOM now, but I will be ever awaiting what you truly do change in the future. Just so you know, there are people that do care about quality and can wait for these changes. They will be awesome when you figure it out. As this expansion will prove to be.
--Isaac
Signature is now under construction: check back in a couple weeks. Or months....
AMAAR VICTOR!
"You just can't fix stupid"
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marxist revolutionary
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:06:00 -
[239]
Originally by: AJ Regard
I think it was a very good blog for numerous reasons.
The way they were headed with motherships was just silly.
The whole point as they said themselves was to define the class of each capital ship more, and making it an uber tanked capital killer just doesn't make any sense no matter how you look at it.
Realizing they ****ed it up this close to patch day, and starting over was the right decision, so kudos for doing it.
The way dreads are functioning now is also kinda ******ed.
Dropping a cap fleet (even without carriers) into battleship fight is pretty much instant win.
Out of siege dreads shoot bs's quite well.
With these changes that means dropping dreads in a bs fight wont matter squad.
Together with the removal of DD in its current form, this will make fleet fights more enjoyable imo, and open up ways for new tactics.
I am happy they changed the titans to 100% bonus damage only.
Having the changed DD and 200% on turrets would just be to insane if you dropped for example 5+ **** on a field.
Especially considering the increased ehp.
Sum up: stop whining, they ****ed up with the mom, the rest is fine, get over it!
I agree with noted intellectual and clear thinker AJ Regard
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EvilweaselFinance
Weasel Enterprises Ltd
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:06:00 -
[240]
man am I glad I never wanted a mothership
and that I don't have hiring nozh on my resume
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Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:07:00 -
[241]
Originally by: AJ Regard
Sum up: stop whining, they ****ed up with the mom, the rest is fine, get over it!
If CCP hadn't deleted all of the initial posts, you'd know that we're COMPLAINING about the mom changes. I can understand why you'd think we were complainin about the whole blog but the whitewashing goahluahlauaulrualtrualaurlaulahualgualugalg
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
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Slapdash McGinty
Pronger Physics Research Dept.
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:07:00 -
[242]
z
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Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:07:00 -
[243]
FREE ABATHUR
These changes or lack of changes are insulting. Seriously Nozh what was the problem with Abathur original blog?
PS. I just visited Mrs Nozh at the pleasure hub in the station. I took some rage out on her but I did tip 2 isk.
Sorry Nozh a think a line is forming to pay her some regards gonna be like a hotdog in a hallway for you for awhile.
______________________________
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CobraStylez
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:07:00 -
[244]
r these changes an indication of how Dominion is going to be?
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ " " " ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿̿̿̿̿̿̿'̿'\̵͇̿̿\=((ò̪●))=/̿̿& |
Hrin
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:07:00 -
[245]
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
IS ANGRY
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Kesper North
Caldari
Epiphyte Mining and Exploration
Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:07:00 -
[246]
Originally by: The Mittani
Oh, by the way, you talked about painters in your blog, Nozh. You may not know this, but you can't paint a sieged dread, mothership or Titan. Hope this helps.
Just in case anyone, you know, MISSED THIS the first time.
--
Killed me? Read about it in my blog! Northern Lights: Solo PVP in EVE Online
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ovenproofjet
Caldari
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:08:00 -
[247]
I'm posting to show my support for all Goon comments in this thread
Also....FREE ABATHUR
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Mikel Banks
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:08:00 -
[248]
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ Capswarm leak
(7:06:48 PM) CCP Nozh: shut up goonies
(7:07:10 PM) rex_hargrove: HE'S CONTROLLING MY JABBER
(7:07:12 PM) CCP Nozh: im good at what i do ok
(7:07:19 PM) zemi_dahut: making tacos?
(7:07:23 PM) CCP Nozh: yes.
Free the old developer
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Valtis Thermalion
Caldari
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:08:00 -
[249]
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
Its a pity your not changing the MOM now, but I will be ever awaiting what you truly do change in the future.
--Isaac
Hopefully you realize that with current hp values, mothership dies to 2 - 3 doomsdays, which can be fired even in low sec. Until motherships are boosted, they are nothing more than 16 billion pos ornaments. Given the speed or even competence of ccp balancing, I'm not too hopeful myself.
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Fuujin
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:09:00 -
[250]
Nozh, Abathur, whichever monkey is flinging the poo/ideas at the wall today...
Dreads in siege CANNOT be target painted. Supercapitals CANNOT be target painted. Towers/guns CANNOT be target painted.
The explosion VELOCITY of the citadel weapons, coupled with the much smaller sig radius of most every subcap, made them relatively ineffective to subcaps as long as the subcaps were moving.
The explosion RADIUS of the citadel weapons made them the lone capital weapons unable to be used against most stationary objects in space.
Now even a medium tower can sigtank a citadel missile.
Reduce the explosion radius of all citadel missiles by 500m, and let the Guided Missile Precision skill affect the cruise missiles.
The Naglfar might be a loldread, but at least it can hit stuff and damage it. If its not a shield-rigged Leviathan, the phoenix can barely hope to do even that.
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:09:00 -
[251]
I can see how with its current damage bonuses, the Nagfar would become a ridiculous beast.
However turning it back into a mandatory dual-weapon system ship, and throwing another level 5 skill on top of it (Cruise Missiles V) is an incredible nerf.
The Naglfar's bonuses should both remain turret based, but those bonuses should be balanced accordingly.
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Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:09:00 -
[252]
Originally by: EvilweaselFinance
man am I glad I never wanted a mothership
and that I don't have hiring nozh on my resume
I once hired someone who was a bad poster. But on the other hand, at least I'm not CCP.
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
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Nongbong Fongrong
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:09:00 -
[253]
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ . o O( If I don't speak up against bad decisions CCP will lose customers. Why do they delete my thoughts? I'm just trying to help them make money )
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Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:09:00 -
[254]
٩ ͡๏̯͡๏۶ Lil guy is not amused. Go back to the Abathur changes already, we can't give you better feedback. Deleting posts claiming they lack feedback when they are infact giving you feedback, (I,e Revert to the pre-catastrophe supercarriers) is not good show.
_____________________________________
Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout
:facepalm:
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Jack Gates
Gallente
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:09:00 -
[255]
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
*fake edit* Never mind, there is no point in defending CCP against you guys as you won't listen. I really hope all of you emo-rage-quit. It'll sure be nicer to read forums that don't contain so much hate and anger. Seriously, get over yourselves. Your not CCP, your not their Devs, I am happy they decided to postpone the changes even if I don't own one. While the original implementation may have been a "great idea" to you guys, obviously CCP found something that didn't fit right.
Oh and the "I am a paying customer" is so bullcrap. If you truly are, quit in defiance. There are a bunch of other MMOs out there, you don't have to stay. The obligatory: "Can I haz your stuffs?"
"You can be late a little while, but you can suck forever". Apparently CCP subscribes to this theory. You guys should too.
To CCP. Thank you for informing us of what your thoughts are behind the capital changes. Its a pity your not changing the MOM now, but I will be ever awaiting what you truly do change in the future. Just so you know, there are people that do care about quality and can wait for these changes. They will be awesome when you figure it out. As this expansion will prove to be.
--Isaac
"I don't know anything about motherships and I don't live in 0.0, but-"
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Evlyna
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:09:00 -
[256]
Originally by: Scelestus Vereor
Wow. It's kind of surprising, really. After all the huge amounts of change promised for this expansion, in the end we get some new planets, a new IGB, and a new evemail client.
Coud've been worse, we coud've had fighters carrying bombs... no wait...
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ ARG!!!
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Puss Bag
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:09:00 -
[257]
Edited by: Puss Bag on 20/11/2009 00:12:47
WOW! Thanks for ruining 6 months of training CCP Nozh! I really appreciate all of your *astute* observations on capital warfare, it seems that you have a strong grasp on nullsec fleet battles and how capital ships work.
Seriously, have you ever played this game before?
EDIT: ٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶
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Verlai
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:10:00 -
[258]
Maybe the front page image can be the new IGB now. ٩๏̯͡๏)۶
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Ilsea
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:10:00 -
[259]
Edited by: Ilsea on 20/11/2009 00:10:33
Originally by: Mikel Banks
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ Capswarm leak
(7:06:48 PM) CCP Nozh: shut up goonies
(7:07:10 PM) rex_hargrove: HE'S CONTROLLING MY JABBER
(7:07:12 PM) CCP Nozh: im good at what i do ok
(7:07:19 PM) zemi_dahut: making tacos?
(7:07:23 PM) CCP Nozh: yes.
Free the old developer
Page 9 SNIPER!
EDIT: Z
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Rex Hargrove
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:11:00 -
[260]
I don't even have a mom, I'm just saying there's no reason for 2 titans to be able to kill 18bil isk in 1 shot a piece. Doomsdays and remote doomsdays were already broken, but wow.
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White Aero
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:11:00 -
[261]
From Dastommy..
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Moon Kitten
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:11:00 -
[262]
The mother ship pilots spamming this thread because they didn't get an nber solo pwn mobile proves Nozh's point that the planned changes wasn't going to result in a balanced ship. |
Pyrhus Taavi
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:11:00 -
[263]
Edited by: Pyrhus Taavi on 20/11/2009 00:11:26
HAHA there were 11 posts on this page when I hit reply, they were all gone when the message appeared
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Sally Bestonge
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:11:00 -
[264]
fire CCP Nozh
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Ilsea
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:12:00 -
[265]
٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶
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Serena Ku
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:12:00 -
[266]
At LEAST give Motherships/Supercarriers a HP boost ffs.
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Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:12:00 -
[267]
Originally by: Sally Bestonge
fire CCP Nozh
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Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:12:00 -
[268]
Originally by: Moon Kitten
The mother ship pilots spamming this thread because they didn't get an nber solo pwn mobile proves Nozh's point that the planned changes wasn't going to result in a balanced ship.
Yes, because making them be one shot by the super titan they AREN'T going to pull (which is far more unbalanced than anything they planned to do with motherships) is definitely a great, Einstein-esque, plan.
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Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:12:00 -
[269]
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
PS: Ban Nozh (and stucks)
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razzo
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:12:00 -
[270]
Ok, this sucks bigtime.
Posting a remake of the MS and tells eveyone how great it will be.
Making people invest in a MS before dominion so they wont have a problem with the
production when the new sov hits the systems.
Waiting a few weeks.... posting a **** blog about changing the stats and then come up with the idea to remove the MS totaly from the patch.
So CCP Nozh, can i send you a bill with 20bn is for the MS i just built and fitted?
You can transfer the ISK to my account and you can come and pick up the MS when ever you want. |
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Toman Torax
Rage For Order
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:13:00 -
[271]
Deleting posts is not helping, here. I think people have a right to be angry over something that was tested, deemed FINE, then you decided to throw it all away and start over.
So now we're not allowed to be upset over it? Using broad strokes and deleting posts you don't like isn't helping YOUR PAYING CUSTOMER'S perceptions that YOU GUYS screwed up and now are just trying to smooth it over the best you can.
Delete some more... you guys are ****ing CLUELESS.
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Drave McClay
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:13:00 -
[272]
٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶ SMOKE WEED ٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶ EVERY DAY ٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶ 420420420420420420420 ٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶ 420 SMOKE WEED ٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶
fire ccp nozh
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Slapdash McGinty
Pronger Physics Research Dept.
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:13:00 -
[273]
Ban Major Danger and CCP Nozh
_____/
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
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Telender
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:13:00 -
[274]
Originally by: AJ Regard
I think it was a very good blog for numerous reasons.
The way they were headed with motherships was just silly.
The whole point as they said themselves was to define the class of each capital ship more, and making it an uber tanked capital killer just doesn't make any sense no matter how you look at it.
Realizing they ****ed it up this close to patch day, and starting over was the right decision, so kudos for doing it.
The way dreads are functioning now is also kinda ******ed.
Dropping a cap fleet (even without carriers) into battleship fight is pretty much instant win.
Out of siege dreads shoot bs's quite well.
With these changes that means dropping dreads in a bs fight wont matter squad.
Together with the removal of DD in its current form, this will make fleet fights more enjoyable imo, and open up ways for new tactics.
I am happy they changed the titans to 100% bonus damage only.
Having the changed DD and 200% on turrets would just be to insane if you dropped for example 5+ **** on a field.
Especially considering the increased ehp.
Sum up: stop whining, they ****ed up with the mom, the rest is fine, get over it!
Dropping a fleet of dreads into a battleship fight means you lose a fleet of dreads with these changes. It doesn't mean "nothing," that's just dumb. If you drop a bunch of BS into the middle of a cruiser fight the cruisers all die....why the hell wouldn't that be true as you class up the ships? If they want to make them less effective fine, but making dreads completely defenseless against battleships is really dumb.
If motherships aren't capital killers than what are they? Currently they will simply be what they have always been...totally useless. They would have been overpowered but you could have simply made them not able to dock and you would have taken care of a good chunk of that problem.
The way motherships were going was indeed broken. The problem is that CCP insists on declaring these dramatic changes with little or no qualification about how firm they are. They decide last minute to make motherships uberpowerful beyond belief and then even more last minute roll everything back, but leaving just enough changed to make the current situation even worse. By rolling MS back and leaving the titan changes as is they have nerfed motherships. If being this terrible at planning deserves "kudos" from one of IT's premiere fleet commanders I can see why you guys are still living in empire.
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Saul Reaver
Caldari
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:13:00 -
[275]
Originally by: LoveKebab
Edited by: LoveKebab on 19/11/2009 23:30:37
lmao, 2 titans = dead ms - die in a fire whoever came up with those changes in 1st place...
Originally by: Saul Reaver
That's it. I've had it with this game.
they saved ur mothership 09 tho :P
How ironic, Looks like they saved yours too. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1217106
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Somal Thundir
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:14:00 -
[276]
this sucks
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
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Kushmir
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:14:00 -
[277]
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
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Tango Zulu
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:14:00 -
[278]
Someone said that this was posted on a Thursday so they could avoid the inevitable rage that would follow. I think seeing as they're not actually working on capitals they just wanted to see if they could cause and impede a potential threadnaught.
This is just a joke right? Nozh doesn't actually exist does he right? Does Iceland have a version of America's April fool's day in late November I've never heard of?
Clever guys, clever. You can change it back now though, all the surprise balloons floated off.
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:14:00 -
[279]
Quote:
The new version of the Citadel Torpedo follows the same trend as other unguided missiles. The explosion velocity is slightly higher than that of the Citadel Cruise Missiles (or 2250) which means target painters will have to be utilized in many situations to achieve full damage potential. They do considerably more damage than their missile counterparts, with reduced range and velocity.
The explosion radius of Citadel Cruise Missiles will be set to 1500, which differs from the current 1000 explosion radius of Citadel Torpedoes on Tranquility. This value has remained the same throughout many capital ship changes since capital ships were introduced with a signature radius of 1000, causing imbalances with the weapon system.
Aside from your complete failure in understanding how your mechanics work ( EWAR on EWAR-immune targets, WTF CCP ), please explain that last sentance?!?
Torps are somehow overpowered and need to have their explosion radius increased? And why the hell is the there no velocity modifier for the missile DPS graph?
Who is even responsible for missiles at CCP? That blog is a complete cluster**** as far as missiles go.
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Minto Took
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:15:00 -
[280]
Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
PS: Ban Nozh (and stucks)
Nozh is horrible. Fire Nozh.
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Fire Hawk
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:15:00 -
[281]
CCP: FYI the jump portal main utility was to bridge ppl to a pos so they wouldnt get Doomsday on the jump in. Having remove the DD you have now decrease the overall utility on the jump portal all together however you are happy to justify 80b ship on that point?
Seriously leave the motherships like they were, leave the titans with 200% damage and 10 mins capital beam.
Stop ****ing up seriously
___
Fear the french touch.
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Battle Tested
Shiva
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:15:00 -
[282]
Originally by: razzo
Ok, this sucks bigtime.
Posting a remake of the MS and tells eveyone how great it will be.
Making people invest in a MS before dominion so they wont have a problem with the
production when the new sov hits the systems.
Waiting a few weeks.... posting a **** blog about changing the stats and then come up with the idea to remove the MS totaly from the patch.
So CCP Nozh, can i send you a bill with 20bn is for the MS i just built and fitted?
You can transfer the ISK to my account and you can come and pick up the MS when ever you want.
/signed...can we get a response as to how to get reimbursement on these new paperweights? |
Central Scrutinizer
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:15:00 -
[283]
Haha, wow. How can a company which has been designing this game for the better part of a decade still be so stunningly incompetent?
What kind of character does Nozh spend his time in? I'm guessing a 5.5 sec status golem pilot in a high-sec mission hub, cause he sure as hell doesn't play in 0.0.
*signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link) - Jacques([email protected]) |
CobraStylez
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:15:00 -
[284]
CCP Nozh is trolling us, right?
Right?
Guys?
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ " " " ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿̿̿̿̿̿̿'̿'\̵͇̿̿\=((ò̪●))=/̿̿& |
Dimitryy
Gallente
Ever Flow
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:15:00 -
[285]
Station Ornament > Change.
------------------------------------------
Jack Blackstone > Dimitryy I hope you die. |
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:16:00 -
[286]
CCP you realize all mothership producers are now out of business. Nobody is gonna buy a mothership now because:
1) They are complete crud now
2) They will have no confidence that you will actually make a change that wont result with them holding the short end of the stick.
______________________________
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William Caldon
Caldari
Golden Cross Enterprises
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:22:00 -
[287]
Edited by: William Caldon on 20/11/2009 00:22:21
Because allowing Goonswarm, -A-, SYSCHAOS (w/e it is..), and all the other egotistical jerks continue to post S*** is the right thing to do.
Your so cute. (all the goonies)
|
Rex Hargrove
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:22:00 -
[288]
Originally by: Toman Torax
All the post deleting in this thread is hysterical.
The more you do it, the angrier you are making people, and the more they want to post crap rather than helpful "comments".
Ah who am I kidding, this post, too, will be deleted.
I am agreeing with, and quoting a sys K guy. Kill me now.
|
Aprudena Gist
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:22:00 -
[289]
Originally by: Aprudena Gist
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Please keep your replies on topic. Remember, posting something that is not constructive will be removed.
Can you please delete CCP Nozh's Blog post then. tyia.
quoting myself cause i'm like that
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Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:23:00 -
[290]
Originally by: Toman Torax
All the post deleting in this thread is hysterical.
The more you do it, the angrier you are making people, and the more they want to post crap rather than helpful "comments".
Ah who am I kidding, this post, too, will be deleted.
All these posts will be lost in time.. like tears.. in rain.
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Ban CCP Nozh (and stucks)
|
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Slapdash McGinty
Pronger Physics Research Dept.
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:23:00 -
[291]
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ is less than happy with CCP, and he's seen a lot. Including some videos including a cup, a girl, and another girl that were more appetizing than having "supercarriers" as fodder for titan pilots to pad their killboard.
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Minto Took
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:23:00 -
[292]
Originally by: William Caldon
Edited by: William Caldon on 20/11/2009 00:22:21
Because allowing Goonswarm, -A-, SYSCHAOS (w/e it is..), and all the other egotistical jerks continue to post S*** is the right thing to do.
Your so cute. (all the goonies)
u mad?
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Ban CCP Nozh (and stucks) |
Puss Bag
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:23:00 -
[293]
HAY, WHERE'D ALL THE POSTS GO? ٩๏̯͡๏)۶
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Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:23:00 -
[294]
Originally by: William Caldon
Edited by: William Caldon on 20/11/2009 00:22:21
Because allowing Goonswarm, -A-, SYSCHAOS (w/e it is..), and all the other egotistical jerks continue to post S*** is the right thing to do.
Your so cute. (all the goonies)
We weren't posting **** until they deleted the non-****. And then the anger about the deleting of the non-****.
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Ban CCP Nozh (and stucks)
|
Zeturi
Caldari
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:24:00 -
[295]
Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
This.
Terrible sov changes are terrible. Terrible cap changes are terrible.
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Pnuka
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:24:00 -
[296]
PS, make target painters effect pos modules/stations/ICBU thingamjits.
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Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:24:00 -
[297]
Originally by: William Caldon
Edited by: William Caldon on 20/11/2009 00:22:21
Because allowing Goonswarm, -A-, SYSCHAOS (w/e it is..), and all the other egotistical jerks continue to post S*** is the right thing to do.
Your so cute. (all the goonies)
Yes, us egotistical jerks...the alliances that actually have the capability to build and use these ships. Our thoughts on the matter are obviously not nearly as important as some empire pubbie. I bet the only mothership you've seen is the one CCP ran in to a station for some crappy RP event.
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Katsura Kotonoha
Caldari
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:25:00 -
[298]
Don't listen to these ass hats Nozh, you are doing the right thing.
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Meno Theaetetus
Wildly Inappropriate
Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:25:00 -
[299]
I wish CCP was as quick to make good on its promises as it is to back out of them. At this rate by the time we get ambulations were going to be living in space anyway. What a waste of 2-3 months of development.
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Halaxi
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:25:00 -
[300]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
I accidently the whole mothership idea....
So many good ideas from the player base and CCP themselves, then so much nerfdom...
Good job this ISK has went on spiced wine and hookers.
Hal.
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:25:00 -
[301]
Okay, since you deleted my post. Let me phrase it in another way;
CCP, what version of target painters will allow me to target paint sieged dreads, motherships and structures?
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B0bby Atlas
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:25:00 -
[302]
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Minto Took
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:26:00 -
[303]
Originally by: William Caldon
Edited by: William Caldon on 20/11/2009 00:22:21
Because allowing Goonswarm, -A-, SYSCHAOS (w/e it is..), and all the other egotistical jerks continue to post S*** is the right thing to do.
Your so cute. (all the goonies)
Also, someone is mad his favorite mission hub isn't getting buffed.
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Ban CCP Nozh (and stucks) |
Ntrails
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:29:00 -
[304]
Edited by: Ntrails on 20/11/2009 00:28:54
Originally by: Crammed Full
Seriously, guys, all of 0.0 has united against you in this. I know you guys sit around at the office like "Who cares, really? I mean if all of 0.0 stopped playing we'd still get plenty of money. It's all the carebears in highsec that get us paid anyway." But it's not the guys running missions 23x7 that get you new customers.
If you're going to screw with the ships that only get to be used in 0.0 you should probably listen to the people who have actually used them and not some poor noobie dev that didn't realize what he just walked into.
Even ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ can see this fella is talking sense....
P11 snype?
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Graalum
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:29:00 -
[305]
Originally by: B0bby Atlas
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ShadowandLight
Amarr
Hammer Of Light
Aegis Militia
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:29:00 -
[306]
Weak weak weak.
CCP has had months to get motherships redesigned to be useful, the bombers was a good step ( adding more space to transport combat ships is also needed )
Get on it CCP, throwing up a white flag is not the answer.
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Hertford
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:29:00 -
[307]
Originally by: Hatsumi Kobayashi
With the only welcome features being the removal of the AoE doomsday and the faction ship boost, i'm amazed you can even refer to Dominion as an expansion.
To be fair, having "Titans no longer have an area of effect Doomsday" in the patch notes and nothing else whatsoever would definitely be worthy of being called an expansion. DD's were a copulating stupid idea. |
Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:29:00 -
[308]
Quote:
This means NO CHANGES WILL BE MADE TO MOTHERSHIPS IN DOMINION. Since they are part of the original rebalancing effort, the DEPLOYMENT OF FIGHTER BOMBERS WILL ALSO BE POSTPONED.
I suggest going forward with the latest changes. Simply make it so that uber carebears(sec status of 5.5 or higher, faction standing of 9.5 or higher) can purchase them and move them to highsec to run missions in.
WTB nyx that can dock and field 15 drones and move around in highsec for mission running.
------------------------
To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe.
------------------------
Life sucks and then you get podded. |
The Slayer
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:30:00 -
[309]
FREE ABATHUR
|
Cuchulin
DEFCON.
The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:30:00 -
[310]
hm every time i refresh a few posts are gone while a few new bullcrapposts are here...since we are still on page 10 I would say we tank the moderators atm....^^
also and more on topic:
Motherships getting easily instapoppt by two titans (fyi there are things called double and triple dds atm in game that are very common.....) is more then a little flawed...
Cuchulin
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Moon Kitten
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:30:00 -
[311]
Originally by: Rex Hargrove
Edited by: Rex Hargrove on 20/11/2009 00:28:37
Quote:
You guys are assuming that everywhere mother ships go there will be 10 titans ready to ambush them but that's simply not true. Titans are now even more vulnerable to subcapital ships than they were before so people will be even more weary to deploy them since the old doomsday is gone.
Meh, maybe you've never seen quick hot drops on a JF? Your MS could be the next to jump into a system with a cloaked hictor, 2 titans jump in, nuke 18bil isk, and then warp to a SS, cloak, and then cyno out once they have the cap. It's not like people have a 50man gang ready at all times.
if you are not dumb you scout the system before you jump into it hope this helps
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:30:00 -
[312]
Originally by: The Mittani
The playerbase tested the new motherships over several weeks on SiSi and found them good.
Some genius put you in charge of Abathur's good work, and now you've not only screwed up all the effort that went into testing those ships, now there's to be no improvement at all.
Where is your credibility on caps? Who are you? Have you fought in a supercapital, lost a supercapital on the field?
Is this the new CCP, or the old CCP rearing its terrible, incompetent head?
I can't believe I'm actually QFT-ing a Goon, but this sums it up perfectly.
Why the hell would you throw away Abathur's initial changes, changes that the players all agreed were a good idea?
Drop this lame excuse of "we can't finish it in time." The changes are done. Put them back where they belong, and put Nozh in charge of something that isn't PvP ship balance.
-----------
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Saul Reaver
Caldari
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:31:00 -
[313]
Originally by: Sally Bestonge
hi my post was deleted
I think these reversions are terrible and that whoever came up with them has played the game even less than I 
convince me why I should keep paying to play
Quoting this as i'm down with it. Also why do you keep deleting the posts of players you have annoyed once again? You should listen to the feelings of the playerbase instead of ignoring them.
|
Battle Tested
Shiva
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:31:00 -
[314]
Originally by: Katsura Kotonoha
Don't listen to these ass hats Nozh, you are doing the right thing.
LMAO @ posting something that won't get deleted
P.S. quit kissing ass |
B0bby Atlas
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:31:00 -
[315]
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Ban CCP Nozh (and stucks)
|
Gergragda
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:31:00 -
[316]
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Please keep your replies on topic. Remember, posting something that is not constructive will be removed.
Disagreement should not be considered "not constructive"
Deleting posts, however, is not constructive.
You can have a discussion or you can censorship. They are mutually exclusive.
|
Fuujin
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:31:00 -
[317]
Supercapitals are immune to ewar, yet they can be neuted/nos'd. Why not painted?
Why can't structures be target painted?
CCP, you have a choice: fix your code to enable the above, or cut the explosion radius on all citadel missiles by 500m (at least).
And get a dev who actually knows what capitals do to manage capital development.
|
Grimpak
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:32:00 -
[318]
Originally by: Arkady Sadik
2) If the 7.5/7.5 dual projectile bonus was too strong with the new XL projectiles - which is quite possible - how about you reduce them to 5/5 and adjust more from there? Too easy?
CCP's school of thought about nerfing is something called "sledgehammer approach". Forget about fine-tuning, hitting something with a sledgehammer is the best way to nerf something.
and now I expect this to be deleted, heh.
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Katsura Kotonoha
Caldari
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:32:00 -
[319]
Hey Nozh, motherships can't go into wormholes. This is outrageous! Please make it so.
|
ovenproofjet
Caldari
hirr
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:32:00 -
[320]
Originally by: B0bby Atlas
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Ban CCP Nozh (and stucks)
|
|
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R0ze
Exile Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:33:00 -
[321]
Slightly more dps on a titan than a dread to "wreak havoc"? .. give me a break..
|
Aprudena Gist
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:33:00 -
[322]
Originally by: Aprudena Gist
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Please keep your replies on topic. Remember, posting something that is not constructive will be removed.
Can you please delete CCP Nozh's Blog post then. tyia.
quoting myself cause i'm like that
|
Emily Elderburry
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:33:00 -
[323]
Roll back TQ to Exodus. Problem solved.
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Minto Took
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:33:00 -
[324]
Originally by: William Caldon
Originally by: Minto Took
Originally by: William Caldon
Edited by: William Caldon on 20/11/2009 00:22:21
Because allowing Goonswarm, -A-, SYSCHAOS (w/e it is..), and all the other egotistical jerks continue to post S*** is the right thing to do.
Your so cute. (all the goonies)
Also, someone is mad his favorite mission hub isn't getting buffed.
*snorts milk out his nose*
whahahahahahahahahahahahah.
As if my nissiom buh need buffed. Seriously, your all egos that assume that anyone that doesn't agree with you is a high-sec-carebear.
"nissom buh [sic]"
"high-sec-carebear"
Oh ****, guys. I just got trolled.
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Ban CCP Nozh (and stucks) |
Toman Torax
Rage For Order
Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:33:00 -
[325]
Originally by: Toman Torax
I really just don't get it...
The changes proposed by Abathur were tested, and overall well accepted. Why did you feel the need to screw with that? You basically erased months worth of ideas, work and testing.
What was the point?
Now you're back to square one. Can we at least go back to Abathur's ideas, and discuss why you felt those changes wouldn't have worked - or better yet, USE THEM?
QUOTING MYSELF!
What, exactly, do you want in this thread, now? For all of us to hold hands and sing kumbaya, in ignorant bliss?
Abathur proposed some nice changes. They were pretty fair and balanced. We tested them. We approved. Then YOU GUYS basically turned around and said "ah screw you guys, we're gonna do THIS instead, and we don't care what you guys think!"
How the hell did you expect us to react?
And now, after you scrap all that hard work, and throw out some ridiculous changes by someone who OBVIOUSLY DOESN'T ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME HE WORKS ON, and get extreme backlash over it, how the hell do you expect us to react NOW?
Serious question: are you guys REALLY this clueless?
|
Rex Hargrove
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:33:00 -
[326]
Originally by: Moon Kitten
Originally by: Rex Hargrove
Edited by: Rex Hargrove on 20/11/2009 00:28:37
Quote:
You guys are assuming that everywhere mother ships go there will be 10 titans ready to ambush them but that's simply not true. Titans are now even more vulnerable to subcapital ships than they were before so people will be even more weary to deploy them since the old doomsday is gone.
Meh, maybe you've never seen quick hot drops on a JF? Your MS could be the next to jump into a system with a cloaked hictor, 2 titans jump in, nuke 18bil isk, and then warp to a SS, cloak, and then cyno out once they have the cap. It's not like people have a 50man gang ready at all times.
if you are not dumb you scout the system before you jump into it hope this helps
Fine, they catch you while you're repping a pos or station services at some crappy hour. Doesn't change the fact that you can lose billions of isks to less than 10 mouse clicks.
|
Caladain Barton
Navy of Xoc
Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:34:00 -
[327]
Originally by: B0bby Atlas
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Ban CCP Nozh (and stucks)
|
Telender
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:34:00 -
[328]
Originally by: William Caldon
Edited by: William Caldon on 20/11/2009 00:22:21
Because allowing Goonswarm, -A-, SYSCHAOS (w/e it is..), and all the other egotistical jerks continue to post S*** is the right thing to do.
Your so cute. (all the goonies)
Thanks for this amazingly substantive and grammatically incorrect post. We look forward to your contributions in the future. <3
|
Julian Kirov
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:35:00 -
[329]
Edited by: Julian Kirov on 20/11/2009 00:35:44
What the heck CCP, why the 11th hour changes on one of the few facets of dominion that almost all the entities in 0.0 actually agreed with?! The Nag alone suffers from having to train up dual weapon systems and now you're determined to make it the weakest dread out there? I fly gallente and even think that's a terrible idea.
You guys are seriously screwing this patch up more and more as release gets closer.
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
|
Minto Took
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:35:00 -
[330]
Originally by: Gergragda
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Please keep your replies on topic. Remember, posting something that is not constructive will be removed.
Disagreement should not be considered "not constructive"
Deleting posts, however, is not constructive.
You can have a discussion or you can censorship. They are mutually exclusive.
EVE-O is the new Lotka.org.
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Ban CCP Nozh (and stucks) |
|
|
White Aero
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:35:00 -
[331]
Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
PS: Ban Nozh (and stucks)
|
Karlemgne
Tides Of War
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:35:00 -
[332]
AHAHAHAHAHA... I hope you emo-rich got what you wanted. You complained enough that they aren't changing MoMs at all. :D
My sig don't fracking work. |
Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:36:00 -
[333]
Originally by: Caladain Barton
Originally by: B0bby Atlas
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Ban CCP Nozh (and stucks)
|
Mioelnir
Minmatar
Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:36:00 -
[334]
- having an anti-capital weapon system rely on target painting when the majority of targets can not be target painted is just hilarious
- everyone understands that with the changes to XL weapons, the bandaid-type bonuses the Naglfar got with Apocrypha need to be looked at again. BUT FOR THE LOVE OF WHICHEVER DEITY YOU WORSHIP, DO NOT REINTRODUCE THE SPLIT WEAPON BONUS! Reduce the double damage bonus from 7.5%/7.5% to 5%/5% or something.
But keep those god forsaken split weapon system bonuses away from us. They NEVER worked, except on the Typhoon because its peak dps output far exceeds every other comparable ship. Unless you are willing to buff the Naglfars base dps output to a level where the reduced effectiveness of damage mods is countered by a lower damage mod need (and monster dps if you put the same amount on), IT WILL NOT WORK.
|
LoveKebab
Caldari
Shut Up And Play
WE FORM VOLTRON
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:36:00 -
[335]
Hel bonus any1 ?
FREE ABATHUR !!!
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:37:00 -
[336]
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Ban CCP Nozh (and stucks)
|
GHOST TIMMER
Thundercats
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:37:00 -
[337]
ship worth over 60-80 bill isk sould do damage and as for the ms they were ok ppl never used them anyway why make them worse then that so they wont never build them eather maby?
[IMG]http://eve-files. com/dl/161206 |
Battle Tested
Shiva
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:38:00 -
[338]
Originally by: Karlemgne
AHAHAHAHAHA... I hope you emo-rich got what you wanted. You complained enough that they aren't changing MoMs at all. :D
Delete this idiot's post for not being constructive...TY |
CootBoot
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:39:00 -
[339]
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
Is there any truth at all to the rumors that CCP Nozh ****d and murdered a girl in 1990?
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
|
Halaxi
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:39:00 -
[340]
Edited by: Halaxi on 20/11/2009 00:40:17
Hal.
|
|
|
Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:39:00 -
[341]
CCP, I think the Goons and 4chan have a thing to learn about trolling from you all. I have never seen such an expertly executed troll of a devoted fanbase in my years on the Internet as Dominion is to Eve. Bravo.
|
Karbowiak
Caldari
D00M.
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:40:00 -
[342]
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
CCP, I think the Goons and 4chan have a thing to learn about trolling from you all. I have never seen such an expertly executed troll of a devoted fanbase in my years on the Internet as Dominion is to Eve. Bravo.
Oh if only my good friend, if only it was true.. 
I hope it is however
Co-Owner and Creator of EVSCO |
Dramaticus
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:40:00 -
[343]
maybe ccp nozh should got join EVE University or something i dunno because hes pretty much a ******
___/
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Aprudena Gist
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:41:00 -
[344]
Originally by: Aprudena Gist
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Please keep your replies on topic. Remember, posting something that is not constructive will be removed.
Can you please delete CCP Nozh's Blog post then. tyia.
quoting myself cause i'm like that
|
Allan Corday
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:42:00 -
[345]
CPP Nozh-Nothing about capital ships
|
Minto Took
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:42:00 -
[346]
Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Ban CCP Nozh (and stucks)
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Ban CCP Nozh (and stucks) |
Hanabi Kazan
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:42:00 -
[347]
If Nozh is the fall guy cause the changes are nowhere near ready, please just say so and save the guy some face.
|
Impolite Andevil
The Shadow Knights
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:42:00 -
[348]
So now we get the long-awaited blog. First, it is complete confirmation of our suspicions that Nohz in fact has no idea what the hell he is doing, didn't have an actual, thought-out plan in the first place for throwing motherships, titans, and dreads into disarray, and STILL DOESN'T HAVE A REASON FOR SCRAPPING CCP ABATHUR'S CHANGES!
We tested them. We liked them. Titans and Moms would have seen combat. Nobody was complaining about them. Then, out of the blue, Abathur is gone and Nohz (perhaps with a team?) scraps what wasn't broken, only to hand out this nonsense.
Titans - Let's just call those super-black ops ships now. Just like a black ops ship, they will never see combat since they are not capable of making a meaningful contribution to a fight, and cost far too much to risk for such an insignificant combat capability. Just like black ops, these will now spend their time cloaked or offline except for when it's time to bridge some ships around. That's it. Abathur's design would have seen them in combat and would have seen them blowing up. This... Just fails.
Moms - I am actually happier to see no change at all that the abortion you had originally laid out on the test server. However, you have yet to explain what was wrong with Abathur's concept. WE ALL LIKED IT. IT WAS BALANCED. Surely it wouldn't be that hard to pull that code from SVN or CVS or whatever you guys use and put those changes back in play?
Dreads - I fly the rev and the moros, which seem to have gotten off much better than the rest, with the moros getting drone ner***e, but the rev coming through fine. However, my corpmates in phoenix's and fellow gamers in nag's are getting completely screwed. First, go read the players guide on missile mechanics so you can understand the concepts of sig radius and explosion radius. Then go hop on SiSi, put together a a phoenix and fire it at a sieged dread. Record your damage. Then put a rapier with a full rack of bonused target painters on the sieged dread, and fire again. Notice the incredible damage difference! Can you honestly tell me that a dread's primary weapon system shouldn't be able to do full damage to other dreads in siege or to small POSs? Or is it just that you have no clue that target painters can't be used on most of the targets for a dread, even though we have been telling you that for over a week now if you would bother to read our feedback? Speaking of feedback and boneheaded changes, what possible reason could you have for not only undoing the changes to the nag that the CSM and playerbase worked so hard for, but actually making it worse that it was originally? REMOVE THE SPLIT BONUSES! If you have to adjust the bonus level to give it damage output at a reasonable level, fine, but at least let the nag pilots use the same type of fit everyone else does. Again, the fact that you even proposed these changes shows an incredible lack of understanding of cap warfare in general, and is a slap in the face of everyone who worked to get the nag fixed just a few months ago! Also, speaking as a pilot who flies two competing dreads and doesn't even have any nags in my corp, I don't see a problem with the dread that takes by far the most training to have the best damage, especially since it has 4 weapon slots up top. Cap use is an incredibly minor factor when looking at the guns. Again, have you ever flown a dread, let alone flown one in combat? I doubt it.
|
Minto Took
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:42:00 -
[349]
Originally by: Allan Corday
CPP Nozh-Nothing about capital ships
This is a pro post right here.
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Ban CCP Nozh (and stucks) |
Allan Corday
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:42:00 -
[350]
lil dude will save us from horrible ideas ٩๏̯͡๏)۶
|
|
|
Pnuka
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:43:00 -
[351]
*CCP Noah reads this thread and types out a quick intercompany memo*
CCP Noah : Well, that explains the outrage over the Moros nerf, caps seem to fight at short range!!
|
Crias Taylor
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:43:00 -
[352]
There is no reason to nuke this post. I just think the dev blog is terriable.
|
Central Scrutinizer
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:43:00 -
[353]
Originally by: CootBoot
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
Is there any truth at all to the rumors that CCP Nozh ****d and murdered a girl in 1990?
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
As far as I know he's never denied that he ****d and murdered a girl in 1990.
*signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link) - Jacques([email protected]) |
Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:43:00 -
[354]
Originally by: Minto Took
Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Ban CCP Nozh (and stucks)
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Ban CCP Nozh (and stucks)
|
Kearl
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:44:00 -
[355]
For a company that seems to listen to their userbase pretty well I have a hard time understanding how the person currently in charge of MS changes still has a job working on them.
Squeaky wheel and all that jazz I sure hope you CCP harden up and do something about this.
He may be a nice guy or high up the food chain , but he has no real eve experience and it shows..
|
Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:44:00 -
[356]
it looks like the only thing dominion is adding thats worth a **** are the new planet graphics
youre literally trying to distract us with pretty baubles
|
Hertford
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:44:00 -
[357]
Dear Nozh,
you can't target paint a sieged dread, mothership or Titan
You now know one thing about capitals. Go you! |
Sally Bestonge
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:45:00 -
[358]
Originally by: Impolite Andevil
Dreads - I fly the rev and the moros, which seem to have gotten off much better than the rest, with the moros getting drone ner***e, but the rev coming through fine. However, my corpmates in phoenix's and fellow gamers in nag's are getting completely screwed. First, go read the players guide on missile mechanics so you can understand the concepts of sig radius and explosion radius. Then go hop on SiSi, put together a a phoenix and fire it at a sieged dread. Record your damage. Then put a rapier with a full rack of bonused target painters on the sieged dread, and fire again. Notice the incredible damage difference! Can you honestly tell me that a dread's primary weapon system shouldn't be able to do full damage to other dreads in siege or to small POSs? Or is it just that you have no clue that target painters can't be used on most of the targets for a dread, even though we have been telling you that for over a week now if you would bother to read our feedback? Speaking of feedback and boneheaded changes, what possible reason could you have for not only undoing the changes to the nag that the CSM and playerbase worked so hard for, but actually making it worse that it was originally? REMOVE THE SPLIT BONUSES! If you have to adjust the bonus level to give it damage output at a reasonable level, fine, but at least let the nag pilots use the same type of fit everyone else does. Again, the fact that you even proposed these changes shows an incredible lack of understanding of cap warfare in general, and is a slap in the face of everyone who worked to get the nag fixed just a few months ago! Also, speaking as a pilot who flies two competing dreads and doesn't even have any nags in my corp, I don't see a problem with the dread that takes by far the most training to have the best damage, especially since it has 4 weapon slots up top. Cap use is an incredibly minor factor when looking at the guns. Again, have you ever flown a dread, let alone flown one in combat? I doubt it.
I like what you're saying but you, like CCP NOZH, do not realize that you can't Target Paint a Sieged Dread
|
Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:45:00 -
[359]
The best idea I've seen so far is renaming Dominion to NGE, because that's exactly what it's become. A bunch of bait and switch changes the players don't want after being told they would get some changes they did want.
|
Allan Corday
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:46:00 -
[360]
420 target paint motherships, titans, and sieged dreads erryday.
CCP Nozh-nuthin 'bout spaceships.
|
|
|
Ntrails
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:46:00 -
[361]
Originally by: Impolite Andevil
So now we get the long-awaited blog. First, it is complete confirmation of our suspicions that Nohz in fact has no idea what the hell he is doing, didn't have an actual, thought-out plan in the first place for throwing motherships, titans, and dreads into disarray, and STILL DOESN'T HAVE A REASON FOR SCRAPPING CCP ABATHUR'S CHANGES!
We tested them. We liked them. Titans and Moms would have seen combat. Nobody was complaining about them. Then, out of the blue, Abathur is gone and Nohz (perhaps with a team?) scraps what wasn't broken, only to hand out this nonsense.
Titans - Let's just call those super-black ops ships now. Just like a black ops ship, they will never see combat since they are not capable of making a meaningful contribution to a fight, and cost far too much to risk for such an insignificant combat capability. Just like black ops, these will now spend their time cloaked or offline except for when it's time to bridge some ships around. That's it. Abathur's design would have seen them in combat and would have seen them blowing up. This... Just fails.
Moms - I am actually happier to see no change at all that the abortion you had originally laid out on the test server. However, you have yet to explain what was wrong with Abathur's concept. WE ALL LIKED IT. IT WAS BALANCED. Surely it wouldn't be that hard to pull that code from SVN or CVS or whatever you guys use and put those changes back in play?
Dreads - I fly the rev and the moros, which seem to have gotten off much better than the rest, with the moros getting drone ner***e, but the rev coming through fine. However, my corpmates in phoenix's and fellow gamers in nag's are getting completely screwed. First, go read the players guide on missile mechanics so you can understand the concepts of sig radius and explosion radius. Then go hop on SiSi, put together a a phoenix and fire it at a sieged dread. Record your damage. Then put a rapier with a full rack of bonused target painters on the sieged dread, and fire again. Notice the incredible damage difference! Can you honestly tell me that a dread's primary weapon system shouldn't be able to do full damage to other dreads in siege or to small POSs? Or is it just that you have no clue that target painters can't be used on most of the targets for a dread, even though we have been telling you that for over a week now if you would bother to read our feedback? Speaking of feedback and boneheaded changes, what possible reason could you have for not only undoing the changes to the nag that the CSM and playerbase worked so hard for, but actually making it worse that it was originally? REMOVE THE SPLIT BONUSES! If you have to adjust the bonus level to give it damage output at a reasonable level, fine, but at least let the nag pilots use the same type of fit everyone else does. Again, the fact that you even proposed these changes shows an incredible lack of understanding of cap warfare in general, and is a slap in the face of everyone who worked to get the nag fixed just a few months ago! Also, speaking as a pilot who flies two competing dreads and doesn't even have any nags in my corp, I don't see a problem with the dread that takes by far the most training to have the best damage, especially since it has 4 weapon slots up top. Cap use is an incredibly minor factor when looking at the guns. Again, have you ever flown a dread, let alone flown one in combat? I doubt it.
This is constructive. ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ likes it.
Originally by: Allan Corday
CPP Nozh-Nothing about capital ships
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
|
no pants
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:48:00 -
[362]
Quote:
While the 6x2500mm Repeating artillery might look poor, the fact that it doesn't consume any capacitor must be taken into consideration.
that's rediculous. what about the no ammo changing/carrying for laser ships? is that taken into account? no
what about no capacitor consumption for missiles? is that taken into account? no
|
Verlai
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:48:00 -
[363]
I need to get myself to manufacturing Rapiers and Huginns.
|
Terisan
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:48:00 -
[364]
"I really have no idea about how capital ships are currently used on the field"
"Sisi testing? Irrelevant! Prepare to receive my vague and ill-informed opinion."
- CCP Nozh, November 2009 |
Allan Corday
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:49:00 -
[365]
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
"Why can't I warp scramble this dreadnaught? Oh yeah, sieged dreads, like motherships and titans, have ewar immunity" - 2 day old Goonfleet newbee in a Rifter
"I develop your game. 4/20 Target paint titans, motherships, triage carriers, and sieged dreadnaughts erryday." - CCP Nozh-nothin bout spaceships.
|
Minto Took
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:49:00 -
[366]
Edited by: Minto Took on 20/11/2009 00:49:14
"I really have no idea about how capital ships are currently used on the field"
"Sisi testing? Irrelevant! Prepare to receive my vague and ill-informed opinion."
- CCP Nozh, November 2009
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Ban CCP Nozh (and stucks) |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:50:00 -
[367]
Originally by: The Mittani
The playerbase tested the new motherships over several weeks on SiSi and found them good.
Some genius put you in charge of Abathur's good work, and now you've not only screwed up all the effort that went into testing those ships, now there's to be no improvement at all.
Where is your credibility on caps? Who are you? Have you fought in a supercapital, lost a supercapital on the field?
Is this the new CCP, or the old CCP rearing its terrible, incompetent head?
next week they are probably going to say the faction bs changes weren't thought out enough either and say they aren't doing them either.
|
Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:50:00 -
[368]
"I've never played the game myself, but let me tell you how it should be played."
-Nozh during CCP job interview
|
Katsura Kotonoha
Caldari
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:50:00 -
[369]
Originally by: Pnuka
*CCP Noah reads this thread and types out a quick intercompany memo*
CCP Noah : Well, that explains the outrage over the Moros nerf, caps seem to fight at short range!!
Blammo
|
R0ze
Exile Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:50:00 -
[370]
Originally by: Hertford
Dear Nozh,
you can't target paint a sieged dread, mothership or Titan
You now know one thing about capitals. Go you!
Quoting as funny part here..
|
|
|
Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:50:00 -
[371]
Poor Nozh, yes I agree the changes were a bad idea, but given the amount of flak he and CCP got in the last thread I dont think we need a repeat. You got what you wanted, the changes are on hold be happy. You will probably get more respect and agreements from CCP if you whine first and then (and I know this is alien to a huge chunk of EvE forum jockeys) thank them for listening to us.
If you dont like the way CCP run things then there are plenty of other games with different developers you could try, but I doubt any will let you get anywhere near this much involvement in the development of pre-release alterations.
My suggestion:
Keep moms as they are
give them fighter bombers
trade the extra fire-power for the current HP stats and the inability to delegate fighter bombers
Thank CCP for listening
Thank you for such a fantastic game
and apologies to Nozh for all the A***s that want to make your life hell.
|
Zaisig Murakk
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:51:00 -
[372]
Originally by: no pants
Quote:
While the 6x2500mm Repeating artillery might look poor, the fact that it doesn't consume any capacitor must be taken into consideration.
that's rediculous. what about the no ammo changing/carrying for laser ships? is that taken into account? no
what about no capacitor consumption for missiles? is that taken into account? no
Listen to this man
|
Gergragda
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:51:00 -
[373]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
The new version of the Citadel Torpedo follows the same trend as other unguided missiles. The explosion velocity is slightly higher than that of the Citadel Cruise Missiles (or 2250) which means target painters will have to be utilized
Target painters do not work on ships in siege, pos modules, or super capitals. What other situation do you believe Citadel torpedos should be used?
Originally by: CCP Nozh
The Titans primary value should be as a fleet's logistical backbone
This idea is not even worth my time.
Originally by: CCP Nozh
We decided that the short-range XL Turrets needed to have better range and a higher damage output to make them a viable choice for the combat situations pilots actually engage in.
Are you saying short range slug fests do not occur? How many capital fights have you been in?
As a capital pilot I'm afraid that someone who has no idea about actual game mechanics (Target painters!) has been put in charge of capital ships. Before posting your next devblog do at least some minimal homework into how this game works before showing us how dumb you are.
|
Impolite Andevil
The Shadow Knights
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:52:00 -
[374]
Originally by: Sally Bestonge
Originally by: Impolite Andevil
Dreads - I fly the rev and the moros, which seem to have gotten off much better than the rest, with the moros getting drone ner***e, but the rev coming through fine. However, my corpmates in phoenix's and fellow gamers in nag's are getting completely screwed. First, go read the players guide on missile mechanics so you can understand the concepts of sig radius and explosion radius. Then go hop on SiSi, put together a a phoenix and fire it at a sieged dread. Record your damage. Then put a rapier with a full rack of bonused target painters on the sieged dread, and fire again. Notice the incredible damage difference! Can you honestly tell me that a dread's primary weapon system shouldn't be able to do full damage to other dreads in siege or to small POSs? Or is it just that you have no clue that target painters can't be used on most of the targets for a dread, even though we have been telling you that for over a week now if you would bother to read our feedback? Speaking of feedback and boneheaded changes, what possible reason could you have for not only undoing the changes to the nag that the CSM and playerbase worked so hard for, but actually making it worse that it was originally? REMOVE THE SPLIT BONUSES! If you have to adjust the bonus level to give it damage output at a reasonable level, fine, but at least let the nag pilots use the same type of fit everyone else does. Again, the fact that you even proposed these changes shows an incredible lack of understanding of cap warfare in general, and is a slap in the face of everyone who worked to get the nag fixed just a few months ago! Also, speaking as a pilot who flies two competing dreads and doesn't even have any nags in my corp, I don't see a problem with the dread that takes by far the most training to have the best damage, especially since it has 4 weapon slots up top. Cap use is an incredibly minor factor when looking at the guns. Again, have you ever flown a dread, let alone flown one in combat? I doubt it.
I like what you're saying but you, like CCP NOZH, do not realize that you can't Target Paint a Sieged Dread
The suggestion to check the damage before and after putting a full rack of fully bonuses TP's on a sieged dread was to point out exactly that, since apparently he won't take our word for it.
|
Admiral Goberius
Amarr
eXceed Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:52:00 -
[375]
ahah awesome
- Gob
________
Alt of Goberth Ludwig |
Damian Vilsalant
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:52:00 -
[376]
Edited by: Damian Vilsalant on 20/11/2009 00:55:27
Frankly
Quote:
For a company that seems to listen to their userbase pretty well I have a hard time understanding how the person currently in charge of MS changes still has a job working on them.
^this.
Back, forth, boost, nerf... is this some kind of mean joke?
Someone on TS said it best today: let me grab my "tweaking mallet" really quick and whack some things to pieces.
Also: FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
|
Carai an'Caldazar
Amarr
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:53:00 -
[377]
Here's to hoping they pull their collective heads out of their arse and make the following changes...
-----------------------------------
1) Delay the expansion for a few more weeks to give 0.0 alliances time to actually figure out how Sovereignty will change their way of life (and allow them some breathing room in actually fixing below)
2) Put Mothership changes back on the table and start experimenting... rolling the ships back to 12.5 Billion, full complement of fighter bombers capable of approximately 12,000 DPS with max skills AND START CHANGING FROM THERE!
3) Fix the Naglfar to be a completely turret based bonuses (again)... albeit with lower bonuses than it enjoys now for balance sake (5% each sounds reasonable?)
4) Fix Citadel Torpedoes and Citadel Cruise Missiles to not totally suck against POS's, Dreadnoughts in siege, and moving Carriers/Titans/Motherships... ~Thanks!
5) If you have some time to kill for those who finished their updates in time to actually make the Dominion release date, would love if they could be re-assigned to Assault Frigates, Rockets, Alliances not being disbanded with the push of a button, and maybe fixing docking games too (in the hopes that the idea of 0.0 alliances can upgrade stations to allow docking mom's one day!)
Hope that list helps...
Cheers!
~Carai an'Caldazar~
~Carai an'Ellisande~
-- Dawn of a new Empire --
|
Mioelnir
Minmatar
Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:53:00 -
[378]
Ah, I forgot in my other post.
Why not give the Naglfar 10% projectile rof and 7.5% target painter effectiveness per level?
It would quite probably be still more useful than the split weapon crap that is on Sisi now (haven't done any numbers). Which is sad.
|
Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:53:00 -
[379]
Originally by: Rainus Max
Poor Nozh, yes I agree the changes were a bad idea, but given the amount of flak he and CCP got in the last thread I dont think we need a repeat. You got what you wanted, the changes are on hold be happy. You will probably get more respect and agreements from CCP if you whine first and then (and I know this is alien to a huge chunk of EvE forum jockeys) thank them for listening to us.
If you dont like the way CCP run things then there are plenty of other games with different developers you could try, but I doubt any will let you get anywhere near this much involvement in the development of pre-release alterations.
My suggestion:
Keep moms as they are
give them fighter bombers
trade the extra fire-power for the current HP stats and the inability to delegate fighter bombers
Thank CCP for listening
Thank you for such a fantastic game
and apologies to Nozh for all the A***s that want to make your life hell.
Yes, poor Nozh, for posting a glob full of things so inept, that it proves he doesn't play the game. That's totally our fault for being uncouth barbarians who think his ideas are terrible, especially since they obviously come from someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.
Or do you pubbies actually think that dreads don't fight at short range or that things he says can be target painted actually can be target painted? It wouldn't surprise me, as you live your whole life in empire and probably have never seen a capital ship.
|
Xunasy
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:54:00 -
[380]
Edited by: Xunasy on 20/11/2009 00:54:42
I thought with CCP making huge improvements on lag and things in general and we wouldn't be returning to the old days where the devs were completely off phase with the player base but then I see blogs like this and realize that they still have a long way to go.
|
|
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z0186
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:54:00 -
[381]
This is all just a giant CCP troll, right? Because, it cant be... well... yes it can. :CCP:
Hey, I know some people who don't play EVE either, should i have them put in an application?
|
LoveKebab
Caldari
Shut Up And Play
WE FORM VOLTRON
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:54:00 -
[382]
didnt u hear about self-painting titans ? most of them uses mwd anyway :P
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Bobbechk
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:55:00 -
[383]
|
Allan Corday
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:55:00 -
[384]
I don't think CPP gets the message yet, so allow me to phase it in a way they are accustomed to "taking community input" ...
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ CCP Nozh buff mummyships so i can fit smarties for my toon plox o/o/o/o/o/o7o7o7o7o7   ٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶
|
Minto Took
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:56:00 -
[385]
It's like CCP wants all of 0.0 to go play Aion or WoW instead.
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Ban CCP Nozh (and stucks) |
Terrible Poster
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:58:00 -
[386]
lookit that fukken backpedal
|
Hertford
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:58:00 -
[387]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
The decision to not change Motherships was the correct one. But the changes you're making to Titans are equally arbitrary and pointless.
Neither Titan nor Mothership have ever come close to serving their original intended purpose.
The only notable difference is that Titans had a completely separate function that made them popular (glass cannon), while Motherships did not.
You could revert the changes to Titans and it would not solve the problem of having 300+ Titans in the game which are little more than rich boys' toys. In my opinion, removing AOE seems more like an attempt to curb their proliferation. It does this by moving Titans further away from being strategic alliance assets and closer to being oversized pwnmobiles.
But I have my reservations. For every alliance you dissuade from building a Titan, there will be 5 rich carebears who will lust for pixels harder than ever. There will be 100+ Titan builds in 2010, especially now that losing sov doesn't abort the ship.
You're trying to explain capital ship game mechanics and balancing to someone who thinks target painters work on sieged dreadnoughts, motherships, and titans. I wish you luck in your long journey! |
Himo Amasacia
Minmatar
Ultrapolite Socialites
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:58:00 -
[388]
Hell time to Sell game time cards for the titan skillzors
"Constant practice devoted to one subject often outdoes both intelligence and skill." -Cicero |
Duhomard Quinquina
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:59:00 -
[389]
Originally by: The Mittani
The playerbase tested the new motherships over several weeks on SiSi and found them good.
Some genius put you in charge of Abathur's good work, and now you've not only screwed up all the effort that went into testing those ships, now there's to be no improvement at all.
Where is your credibility on caps? Who are you? Have you fought in a supercapital, lost a supercapital on the field?
Is this the new CCP, or the old CCP rearing its terrible, incompetent head?
Quoting this.
|
Undertow Latheus
Minmatar
Monolithic.
Dead Terrorists
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:59:00 -
[390]
Hahaha, i tried to refresh the page while on page 13... and got this
"No Thread with this ID
This thread does not exist."
CCP has been deleting so much criticism of this hilariously bad devblog that the thread went back a page, instantly
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z0186
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 00:59:00 -
[391]
CCP Fallout was a pretty aptly chosen choice of names for the OP.
What an abortion this is.
|
Nicholas Dampier
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:00:00 -
[392]
Its me, I'm the ******* who wants to make your life hell.
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ImnotwearingUnderwear
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:00:00 -
[393]
lol@ post deletions.
you know what marketing concept doesn't work?
****ing on your customers
|
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:00:00 -
[394]
Edited by: Pohbis on 20/11/2009 01:02:22
Originally by: no pants
what about no capacitor consumption for missiles? is that taken into account? no
If you look at the proposed changes for torps, and the new cruise missiles, I think you'll see that they've more than taken that into account. They didn't even have to, missiles have 2 other attributes CCP knows nothing about, velocity and flight time. That's enough of a disadvantage for Phoenixes.
I'll be sitting in my Phoenix, waiting for the other dreads to recharge cap to jump, telling everyone how awesome my dread is and how I could, like, totally jump out alone... if that made any ****ing sense in dread-warfare
Then I'd start asking why all the Rev pilots never have to reload or buy ammo, and always seem to do so good in laggy fights, and I'd be like, meh, I gotz ze cap!
.. then everyone will start laughing when they see my lossmail and the 1 mid I had to give up for a targetpainter, and I'd be like "Wuutz, Moros no fit webs?one!"
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Allan Corday
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:01:00 -
[395]
*knows nothing about alliance capital ship warfare*
*claims you can target paint ships with ewar immunity*
*posts outrageous changes to endgame ships 2 weeks before expansion launch*
*encourages 'community input' to discuss imminent changes*
*deletes constructive criticism of design changes*
*is literally lotka dot org*
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Gergragda
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:01:00 -
[396]
Dear Nozh,
you can't target paint a sieged dread, mothership or Titan
Sincerely,
Someone who has actually played this game beyond the tutorial.
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Kushmir
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:01:00 -
[397]
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
|
Strabo44
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:01:00 -
[398]
Originally by: Pointfive
When nearly every blog you release is receiving constant outrage at your lack of understanding of your game. Maybe you would at least try to verify things before trying again. But no.
Let me go target paint some sieged dreads, and then maybe ill do sweet damage with my nerfed naglfar that requires more training than any other dread. Hell yeah.
Free abathur!
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Moon Kitten
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:01:00 -
[399]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
The decision to not change Motherships was the correct one. But the changes you're making to Titans are equally arbitrary and pointless.
Neither Titan nor Mothership have ever come close to serving their original intended purpose.
The only notable difference is that Titans had a completely separate function that made them popular (glass cannon), while Motherships did not.
You could revert the changes to Titans and it would not solve the problem of having 300+ Titans in the game which are little more than rich boys' toys. In my opinion, removing AOE seems more like an attempt to curb their proliferation. It does this by moving Titans further away from being strategic alliance assets and closer to being oversized pwnmobiles.
The primary issue with titans wasn't the number of titans in existence. It was the unbalanced Area of Effect weapon, the Doomsday that was the problem.
CCP made the right choice to remove the unbalanced doomsday weapon from the game. |
Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:01:00 -
[400]
I find it ironic that on the day Steam put up Star Wars Galaxies: Complete Edition for 9.95, CCP would post this. The game that coined the derogatory term "NGE" goes up for 10 bucks on Steam the day that CCP proves they were taking notes when Sony did it.
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Halaxi
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:02:00 -
[401]
CCP, found this message that might apply to those who ignore player sugestions.
Hal.
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Fuujin
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:02:00 -
[402]
ahem,
Target Painters
***Do NOT Work***
on Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps
Thank you!
|
Abernie
Intolerable Tyranny
Exquisite Malevolence
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:02:00 -
[403]
Heck I don't have anything to do with capital ships and probably never will but the utter lack of caring what the player base says is almost enough to get me to never log back on...
I feel bad for the people who have to spend their weekend clearing this thread...
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Allan Corday
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:03:00 -
[404]
Originally by: z0186
CCP Fallout was a pretty aptly chosen choice of names for the OP.
What an abortion this is.
i wish CCP would abort your posting.
oh yeah, they already are.
|
Himo Amasacia
Minmatar
Ultrapolite Socialites
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:03:00 -
[405]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
The decision to not change Motherships was the correct one.
Feck sake Digitalcommunist thinks something this guy has done is good. If that's not a mile high clue about this guys ineptness I don't know what to say
"Constant practice devoted to one subject often outdoes both intelligence and skill." -Cicero |
Mioelnir
Minmatar
Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:03:00 -
[406]
Oh, and since the XL Autocannons now receive all their tradeoffs directly in the form of reduced DPS output and range, does this mean the Naglfar gets an increased capacitor size and improved capacitor recharge to be on par with the other dreads, since these are no longer necessary?
Or are we still at Minmatar double penalty on 5?
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Hertford
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:03:00 -
[407]
Edited by: Hertford on 20/11/2009 01:04:08
Though it would appear that you can target paint posts. But not superposts, nor sieged posts.
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
Big dude is worried. |
Strabo44
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:03:00 -
[408]
Seriously though this is completely terrible have you ever played the game.
|
Minto Took
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:04:00 -
[409]
Originally by: Himo Amasacia
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
The decision to not change Motherships was the correct one.
Feck sake Digitalcommunist thinks something this guy has done is good. If that's not a mile high clue about this guys ineptness I don't know what to say
DigitalCommunist posts have always been garbage.
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Ban CCP Nozh (and stucks) |
Papa Digger
OEG
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:05:00 -
[410]
GIVE NAGLFAR BONUS TO TARGET PAINTERS!! AND RAGNAROKS DD deliver 30000000% to enemy ships signature! IT WILL BE SOOOOO NOZHHHHHHH...
----
ex-CEO. |
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Verlai
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:05:00 -
[411]
Originally by: Hertford
Edited by: Hertford on 20/11/2009 01:04:08
Though it would appear that you can target paint posts. But not superposts, nor sieged posts.
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
Big dude is worried.
It's a shame every post we make is a superpost, then. ٩๏̯͡๏)۶
|
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CCP Navigator
C C P
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:08:00 -
[412]
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
Navigator
Senior Community Representative
CCP Hf, EVE Online
|
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Mrs Trzzbk
Mothership Connection Inc.
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:09:00 -
[413]
I would be embarrassed to be a CCP employee right now. This is just pathetic.
_________________________________________________________
it's good to have land
Trust me, I'm a Spacebert. |
Fuujin
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:09:00 -
[414]
With these changes Dominion is going to be a great New Game Experience for all the players in 0.0!!
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Shankymcstab
Minmatar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:09:00 -
[415]
Edited by: Shankymcstab on 20/11/2009 01:09:54
Dear Nozh,
you can't target paint a sieged dread, mothership or Titan
Sincerely,
Someone who has actually played this game beyond the tutorial.
|
Ice Fist
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:11:00 -
[416]
Thanks CCP, you guys are pioneers of the gaming industry. After introducing a pair of ship classes that were either hilariously unbalanced or entirely useless your proposed changes to those ships amplify your initial mistakes ten fold. Now since titans don't have AOE DD's (not at all a bad idea originally) you nerf everything else so that they will sit collecting dust until the time that someone needs to use a 70+ billion isk jump portal to shoot subcapital fleets around eve. Even better you take the MS, which is on the field of battle even less than titans, propose changes that would finally give pilots an incentive to use them, and then take them away again, keeping them useless and off the field until such time as your balls drop.
Who the hell are you catering to? Who is your target audience with those capital changes? Its not carebears, since capitals can't be flown in highsec. Its not lowsec either since even though pirate corporations can use caps in space they don't have very many targets for their use. It has to be 0.0 and yet the general amount of stupidity you've shown sheds light on the fact that your purpose is not to cater to ANYBODY. Quit making these paper tigers that make you smile and feel good as you sit around a conference room whiteboard making dps graphs and start fixing the crap that is so conceptually broken that hardly anybody bothers to drop them on a grid with more than 50 hostiles.
Seriously. Not only do you have the people who can CURRENTLY fly caps getting upset over this, but also the people like me who are on the brink of TRAINING into a cap of their choice. Where are the massive capital slugfests you promised, with motherships and titans on the field along with dreadnaughts and carriers? How can you NOT possibly see that these ships are terrible and serve little more than an ego booster for a rich alliance or pilot?
Your short-sightedness on matters like these is totally disturbing.
|
Arramis
Minmatar
ROMANIA Renegades
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:11:00 -
[417]
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
ASK ABATHUR...HE HAS SOME FEEDBACK!!!
------------------------------------------
Manelele`s expresia clara a prostiei si inculturii romanesti. |
Lhyda Souljacker
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:11:00 -
[418]
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
I don't think you get it. Nozh needs to be removed from ever touching capitals again (see his target painter comments which obviously underscores his complete lack of understanding of the mechanics of said ships) and then maybe things would calm down.
|
Reapeat Offender
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:11:00 -
[419]
I don't think its too much to ask to have a developer assigned to capital ship balance that has at a least a slight clue how they operate. Bring back Abathur. ٩๏̯͡๏)۶
-----------------------------------------------
Are GoonSwarm ever going to be allowed to build up in any way in 0.0 space again?
No.
-DB Preacher |
Pointfive
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:11:00 -
[420]
Hey i wonder what kinda dps these new missles will do to sieged dreads.
*Does not log on test server
*Does not attempt any form of test
*Loads up excel and becomes worlds best game designer
I wonder if people have close range dread fights? Sounds dumb to me.
*Does not ask any players
*Does not monitor in game battles
*continues to balance in a vacuum
I am nearly convinced nozh has an excel sheet on his desktop labeled eve.exe and all his design choices are made in this vacuum.
|
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Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:12:00 -
[421]
Edited by: Vadinho on 20/11/2009 01:13:13
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
okay 
every conclusion reached in that dev blog it false and the person who wrote it has no experience of frame of reference as to what he's writing about
well take care
|
Yussef
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:12:00 -
[422]
Hey guys I had a question and decided to pick a random thread in which to ask it: can you target paint a dread, mothership, or titan?
|
Grimpak
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:12:00 -
[423]
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
deleting posts like there was no tomorrow didn't help, and the more you delete, the more of a whiplash you get
not discussing, just pointing out the obvious.
also, with such a backpedalling, what did you expect? hugs and kisses?
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Reapeat Offender
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:12:00 -
[424]
Restore sanity...remove Nozh. ٩๏̯͡๏)۶
-----------------------------------------------
Are GoonSwarm ever going to be allowed to build up in any way in 0.0 space again?
No.
-DB Preacher |
Epofhis
hirr
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:12:00 -
[425]
Heh. This thread is starting to look like local in 49- a few months ago.
Keep it up Goon brothers. o7
|
Gehena Valheru
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:13:00 -
[426]
This abomination of a patch continues to amaze me. I fly capitals. That's all this character was designed to do. 67M skillpoints later, I've acquired Caldari Carrier V, Caldari Dreadnought V, Fighters V, and Citadel Torps V among countless other skills.
I had trained Carrier V and Fighters V to ultimately fly a Wyvern, but now, it would be a complete waste of my time to jump into an 18B isk flying coffin.
I trained Caldari Dreadnought V and Citadel Torps V so I could do excellent DPS on the capital battlefield in my Phoenix. Now, I'm having to train Cruise Missiles to V and likely Citadel Cruise Missles to IV or V in order to maintain the fitting on my dreadnought.
This means I will be out of commission for combat for the next TWO MONTHS.
I know that CCP in its infinite wisdom thinks that all missile skill chains should be independent, but consider this:
Training Large Hybrid/Energy/Projectile Turret V allows you to use BOTH close and long range capital turrets.
I think it's stupid that you are forcing missile using capital pilots to train Cruise V/Citadel Cruise Launchers. I feel terrible for Nag pilots.
The simple solution is to simply change the skill to Capital Citadel Launchers or something similar and allow it to be the prerequisite for both Citadel Torp and Cruise launchers. This way, Phoenix and Nag pilots still have to commit to long/short in fitting, but aren't forced to undergo another capital weapon grind other capital pilots aren't reqired to simply to be able to use their ship.
Oh and even after that grind is finished we're stuck doing half damage either by using cruises or torpedos without painters (which DONT WORK)!
Please, CCP, stop infuriating your veteran players and make this patch worthwhile.
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
PS: Just reinstate Abathar's Titan/Mothership changes; they looked really fun to try, the players liked them generally, and it would certainly thin the overpopulation of supercapitals
|
Strabo44
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:13:00 -
[427]
Originally by: Ice Fist
Thanks CCP, you guys are pioneers of the gaming industry. After introducing a pair of ship classes that were either hilariously unbalanced or entirely useless your proposed changes to those ships amplify your initial mistakes ten fold. Now since titans don't have AOE DD's (not at all a bad idea originally) you nerf everything else so that they will sit collecting dust until the time that someone needs to use a 70+ billion isk jump portal to shoot subcapital fleets around eve. Even better you take the MS, which is on the field of battle even less than titans, propose changes that would finally give pilots an incentive to use them, and then take them away again, keeping them useless and off the field until such time as your balls drop.
Who the hell are you catering to? Who is your target audience with those capital changes? Its not carebears, since capitals can't be flown in highsec. Its not lowsec either since even though pirate corporations can use caps in space they don't have very many targets for their use. It has to be 0.0 and yet the general amount of stupidity you've shown sheds light on the fact that your purpose is not to cater to ANYBODY. Quit making these paper tigers that make you smile and feel good as you sit around a conference room whiteboard making dps graphs and start fixing the crap that is so conceptually broken that hardly anybody bothers to drop them on a grid with more than 50 hostiles.
Seriously. Not only do you have the people who can CURRENTLY fly caps getting upset over this, but also the people like me who are on the brink of TRAINING into a cap of their choice. Where are the massive capital slugfests you promised, with motherships and titans on the field along with dreadnaughts and carriers? How can you NOT possibly see that these ships are terrible and serve little more than an ego booster for a rich alliance or pilot?
Your short-sightedness on matters like these is totally disturbing.
Holy **** a btls post worth reading.
|
LoveKebab
Caldari
Shut Up And Play
WE FORM VOLTRON
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:13:00 -
[428]
Edited by: LoveKebab on 20/11/2009 01:14:05
What about fail Hel bonus? Is it gonna stay?!
every ms exept hel has some decent bonus, resists, dmg but minmatar got lol-rr...
xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Undertow Latheus
Minmatar
Monolithic.
Dead Terrorists
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:13:00 -
[429]
Edited by: Undertow Latheus on 20/11/2009 01:14:07
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
everything i've seen has been constructive, because it's voicing the community's outrage at such idiotic changes, or rather lack thereof.
|
EvilweaselSA
Weasel Enterprises Ltd
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:14:00 -
[430]
٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶
these changes are really bad and if you hadn't kept deleting posts to that effect little dude wouldn't need to explain it
|
|
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Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:14:00 -
[431]
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
This is not on topic and already covered elsewhere on the forum, please delete this obvious spam post and fire Nozh.
Or you could just fire Nozh, reverse his wonderfully braindead unchanges, and leave your post.
Either or, just fire the **t*rd
|
The Slayer
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:14:00 -
[432]
Edited by: The Slayer on 20/11/2009 01:15:08
Edited by: The Slayer on 20/11/2009 01:14:51
"٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur"
Dear Nozh,
you can't target paint a sieged dread, mothership or Titan
Sincerely,
Someone who has actually played this game beyond the tutorial.
|
Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:14:00 -
[433]
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
Why do you hate Abathur - WE DESERVE AN ANSWER!
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD IDEAS ABOUT 0.0 IS NOT A CRIME.
|
Battle Tested
Shiva
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:15:00 -
[434]
Maybe we should contact all the gaming magazinzes, gaming critics and other gaming entities out there and inform them about the true CCP, you know the CCP that refuses to listen to it's playerbase, the one that hires dumbasses who dont even know how this game is played. CCP announced this huge expansion to get more subscriptions and to get people to reactivate their Mothership accounts. Once people did then they threw the whole works of CCP Abathur into file 13. Then dont even do any PR for fear of ****ing off the community which all it did was create an uproar of their most loyal customers. I'd like to see who they put in charge of damage control once their subscriptions take a drastic dive. I believe it will be too little too late and any new MMO spaceship game out there will flourish with new subscriptions because of a lack of judgement on the part of CCP higherups. Props to CCP for having a great game up to this point and for making it last so long, my deepest sympathy also goes out to CCP for implementing a bunch of "****" and losing the luster this game once had to a failed attempt at fixing what the playerbase has been wanting. |
Reapeat Offender
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:15:00 -
[435]
Dear Nozh,
You can't target paint a sieged dread, mothership or Titan.
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
-----------------------------------------------
Are GoonSwarm ever going to be allowed to build up in any way in 0.0 space again?
No.
-DB Preacher |
Pnuka
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:15:00 -
[436]
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
It felt good typing those though didn't it, it's ok you can admit it you are among friends.
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SamtheDog
EVIL ALTS
Talon Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:15:00 -
[437]
I think the damage created by the negative publicity and mistreatment and mere dismissal of the player base has reached the point that it cannot be removed, deleted or waived away. I've played this game for 6 years and this was the only patch that I have been truly looking forward to. The fact that some forum moderators have decided to remove postings may play well here under their rules, but won't be so easily removed on other gaming sites.
The mothership was fantastic and now is far too vulnerable to even consider fielding due to being destroyed instantly in 0.0. Hence they are no longer part of the equation in 0.0 space since they are not receiving an EHP boost. They will be kept logged off indefinately. Nohz's turnabout is not only not very well thought out, but his reaction shows that he is suffering a great deal of stress from these forum postings. His past suggests that he doesn't care much about player sentiment, but his reversal is uncharacteristically strong. No employer wants to keep any employee that brings bad and very negative publicity to CCP. I would sense that his continued employemnt will not last for long.
Eve has been essentially turned inot a game of 'capture the flag', which fewer tactics and strategiies. Time will tell, but the game has become less fun and the gaming blogs and forums will represent this. Good graphcis can only hold people for so lonng, it's the gameplay of fantastic games like 'Starcraft' that keep players playying even do this day.
We will see in the end.
Sam
"Never underestimate greed or stupidity...you can always see it emerge in the end" |
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:17:00 -
[438]
Originally by: Pointfive
I am nearly convinced nozh has an excel sheet on his desktop labeled eve.exe and all his design choices are made in this vacuum.
Confirming EVE is Excel in space
|
iudex
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:17:00 -
[439]
Quote:
This means NO CHANGES WILL BE MADE TO MOTHERSHIPS IN DOMINION. Since they are part of the original rebalancing effort, the DEPLOYMENT OF FIGHTER BOMBERS WILL ALSO BE POSTPONED.
Can you give us the warrant, that once you are going to change them, the manufacturing costs (amount of material) will remain the same - or if not, that mothership owners will get a compensation in case you do change the manufacturing costs ?
Otherwise there will be a chaos or collapse in the MS manufacture / trade.
_____________________________________________________
My skills // Faction Standings: Serpentis +8.02 / Angel Cartel +9.24 / Gallente Federation -10.00 |
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:17:00 -
[440]
RELEASE ABATHUR / SET ABATHUR FREE / PARDON ABATHUR
better?
______________________________
|
|
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Vile rat
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:18:00 -
[441]
Edited by: Vile rat on 20/11/2009 01:19:01
I would like to present an alternative solution to this problem. It involves no coding, game balancing, or even playtesting.
All it requires is a post and I've even written it for you. Feel free to copy/paste it in your next Devblog, I don't even ask you cite me.
"Dear Eve community:
In our effort to bring cool new content that we felt players would enjoy we fell into the same trap that numerous other game development companies have fallen into and for this we apologize. We came up with capital ships and they were clearly popular with the playerbase but we made a slight miscalculation when we introduced the concept of an alliance level supercapital ship. You see we never actually tested the effect that these originally invincible monsters would have on overall gameplay and we freely admit our rookie mistake. In our misguided attempt to balance the cost vs utility of these items we quickly realized that to make them worthwhile is to have a game breaking platform that ruined overall gameplay and destroyed any chance of mass alliance vs alliance warfare that is anything remotely close to fun.
Whoops!
We've realized that there is no way to introduce these broken items in any form into the game without making everybody unhappy so we are going to reimburse all owners of these items to their build cost and we will not introduce them into the game again.
Sorry for any inconvenience and we'll strive not to make such a mistake again. Also ignore any of our attempt to try and duct tape this broken concept into semi usefulness, that was just the effort of a few misguided dev's who while meaning well, didn't know when to just say 'ok this whole concept is dumb and we're cutting our losses'.
Best regards,
Your dev team"
No need to thank me, I can see the gratitude in your hearts.
Love,
Vile rat
xoxoxo
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Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:18:00 -
[442]
Originally by: Arramis
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
ASK ABATHUR...HE HAS SOME FEEDBACK!!!
I'm going to give you personal +10 for this post. Because. It is the best post.
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD IDEAS ABOUT 0.0 IS NOT A CRIME
|
Allan Corday
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:19:00 -
[443]
Originally by: CCP Navigator
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
Free ٩๏̯͡๏)۶
What am I going to do with this Minmatar BS V character now? The Hel is stupid and the Naglfar bonuses are terrible.
I know, maybe I will unsubscribe it.
|
Reapeat Offender
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:19:00 -
[444]
Please assign a competent Dev to Capital ship balance. TIA
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
-----------------------------------------------
Are GoonSwarm ever going to be allowed to build up in any way in 0.0 space again?
No.
-DB Preacher |
ImnotwearingUnderwear
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:19:00 -
[445]
Edited by: ImnotwearingUnderwear on 20/11/2009 01:21:20
lol this reminds me when coca cola scrapped its original recipe for new coke.
here are some constructive comments:
don't make a live change to anything if it is not tested thoroughly and is horribly screwed up. if you had to backpedal on a major issue then you should be adding several weeks/months to your development time of the patch. another thing is having somebody in charge of something but does not understand the basic concept of what they are in charge of, is generally a very bad idea.
imagine if a car company put a marketing guy in charge of production, kiss several billion dollars (not isk) goodbye.
also please have somebody proof read dev blogs so they are not horribly bad
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WarDecEvading NPCCorpAlt
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Posted - 2009.11.20 01:19:00 -
[446]
Not using cap is a pretty weak justification for subpar performance on capital projectiles considering capital shield boosters use A LOT of cap.
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razzo
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:20:00 -
[447]
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
What is it to discuss about?
It wont change so there is no point discuss about something you wont change. |
coeathal vega
Gallente
Reikoku
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:20:00 -
[448]
jesus christ, what the **** is that... and what did you do with someone that actually had a GOOD IDEA OF HOW EVE WORKS ?
FREE SELEENE
----
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z0186
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:20:00 -
[449]
Free ٩๏̯͡๏)۶
Free Abathur.
Dont put incompetant people in charge of things that will polarize your player base against you.
That would be a start.
|
Epofhis
hirr
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:21:00 -
[450]
I'm getting the feeling that water cooler/fishtank talks are going to be interesting at CCP HQ tomorrow... c/d?
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|
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Reapeat Offender
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:21:00 -
[451]
I'd feel better about your decision to scrap all mother ship changes planned for Dominion if it had been made by someone who knew that target painters cannot be used on sieged dreads, motherships, and Titans.
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
-----------------------------------------------
Are GoonSwarm ever going to be allowed to build up in any way in 0.0 space again?
No.
-DB Preacher |
Minto Took
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:22:00 -
[452]
Where is CCP Soundwave? Only then will I believe this dev blog is not a troll.
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Ban CCP Nozh (and stucks) |
Queldonus
Minmatar
Body Count Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:22:00 -
[453]
How many more years do we have to wait for you to change moms?
Don't take me wrong, but I am glad you listened, and are not implementing the changes.
Please do NOT take another 2 years to do something with this ship class.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:22:00 -
[454]
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
CCP Navigator;
This wouldn't be as hot a topic if we could get an explanation as to why CCP Abathur's very well received ideas were discarded two and a half weeks before Dominion, without announcement (somebody noticed it on Sisi), and have been replaced by CCP Nozh with very.... different... ideas.
The fact that the ideas that CCP Nozh has presented are as far as I can tell idiotic is only a small part of the problem; the larger problem is that they were introduced with no input from the players and with no explanation as to why CCP Abathur's changes were removed.
This is without even considering the effects that repeated announcements have had on the Mothership/supercarrier market.
Let's break it down:
CCP Abathur and players: extensive testing and balancing on sisi with supercarriers and titans. Result: well-received changes, ships were finally good enough to be worth using for their price. All signs point to these changes going to TQ.
- one week passes -
CCP Nozh: I am changing pretty much everything and giving no shred of an explanation why.
Players: WTF.
CCP Nozh: okay i guess those changes were bad, I'll give them an additional fighter and let them dock.
Players: DOUBLEYEW TEE EFF
- threadnaught occurs -
CCP Nozh: Well clearly since those ideas weren't well received we won't be doing anything to motherships at all. Also, you can totally target paint ships that are immune to electronic warfare.
Players: WHAT NONSENSE IS THIS
Even as someone without a direct interest in the state of motherships, the way this has panned out is frankly appalling and makes me feel betrayed.
Most of all, though,
Originally by: CCP Nozh
As designers we need to do is take a few steps back, deliberate more (with your help), go through more testing (also with your help) and really perfect the Mothership redesign.
The deliberation and testing was already done. CCP Abathur did it. Please explain why they were undone.
FREE ABATHUR
________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito
PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
|
EvilweaselSA
Weasel Enterprises Ltd
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:22:00 -
[455]
i love posting
post away, little dude, let them know how badly they screwed up
٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶
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Bihila
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:23:00 -
[456]
CCP, I never post, I never whine, I just enjoy the game like it is.
BUT THIS... IS A SHAME!!!
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Reapeat Offender
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:24:00 -
[457]
I heard this was the thread where a horrible decision by CCP was being discussed. ٩๏̯͡๏)۶
-----------------------------------------------
Are GoonSwarm ever going to be allowed to build up in any way in 0.0 space again?
No.
-DB Preacher |
Allan Corday
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:24:00 -
[458]
Rotten shark is high in mercury content. It is to be consumed with caution. Mercury poising may lead to temporary insanity, and failure to recall basic facts; for example, the idea that target painters work on sieged dreads.
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Sigras
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:24:00 -
[459]
here's the problem i see; now motherships are going to be destroyed in two volleys by a doomsday weapon.
Honestly, i see the need for a super long range capital logistics ship something like
150% bonus to Capital Shield and Armor transfer range per level
That would put the mothership far enough out of the fight as to not be easily ganked by the massive dreadnought fleets.
That plus a large HP increase would really give this ship a role.
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Zaisig Murakk
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:24:00 -
[460]
Good work on deciding to once again break the naglfar and make it worthless in 90% of situations. Just kidding. That was a horrible idea.
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Evelgrivion
Ignatium.
Aggressive Dissonance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:25:00 -
[461]
Abathur comes out with the original Mothership changes proposed for Dominion. As far as I am aware, everyone was happy with the preliminary numbers, and player testing didn't reveal any particularly horrific flaws.
Suddenly, the entire suite of changes was thrown out the window for a set that completely changed the mothership mechanic in a way that ticked off the majority of New Eden. Amidst the backlash, now all of the Mothership/Supercarrier changes have been thrown out the window.
What happened?
What was wrong with the first version of Supercarriers?
|
Ice Fist
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:25:00 -
[462]
Edited by: Ice Fist on 20/11/2009 01:26:28
Originally by: Epofhis
I'm getting the feeling that water cooler/fishtank talks are going to be interesting at CCP HQ tomorrow... c/d?
Are you joking? Interesting watercooler talks means that our complaints would actually be reaching through their egotistical, thick skulls. Since our opinions don't really have much of an effect on them I would think that water cooler chat would be ohhh... the weather? the state of world economics? the hot receptionist downstairs? Anything but the game they're paid to make cool for us.
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Minto Took
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:25:00 -
[463]
Originally by: coeathal vega
jesus christ, what the **** is that... and what did you do with someone that actually had a GOOD IDEA OF HOW EVE WORKS ?
FREE SELEENE
When Goons and former-BoB agree on something, you know that something is horrifically wrong.
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Ban CCP Nozh (and stucks) |
Toman Torax
Rage For Order
Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:26:00 -
[464]
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
Originally by: Toman Torax
What, exactly, do you want in this thread, now? For all of us to hold hands and sing kumbaya, in ignorant bliss?
Abathur proposed some nice changes. They were pretty fair and balanced. We tested them. We approved. Then YOU GUYS basically turned around and said "ah screw you guys, we're gonna do THIS instead, and we don't care what you guys think!"
How the hell did you expect us to react?
And now, after you scrap all that hard work, and throw out some ridiculous changes by someone who OBVIOUSLY DOESN'T ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME HE WORKS ON, and get extreme backlash over it, how the hell do you expect us to react NOW?
Serious question: are you guys REALLY this clueless?
One of your DEVS proposed that we use target painters on ships that CAN'T BE TARGET PAINTED!
Do I really need to say anything more?
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Yussef
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:26:00 -
[465]
Is this all a plot to turn MoMs into some kind of target painting super weapon?
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Telender
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:27:00 -
[466]
Edited by: Telender on 20/11/2009 01:28:20
Why is December 1st such an incredibly holy date? Why not simply admit that you guys are having a hard time putting everything together the way it needs to be and push the date back? The only thing the players care about are quality changes, and you guys act like the only thing that matters is meeting an arbitrary implementation deadline.
pr0tip: Stop making your devblogs have the tone of "THIS IS WHAT IS GOING TO CHANGE" because we keep making the idiotic mistake of BELIEVING YOU. If you're just kicking around some ideas then just kick them around.
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Baaldor
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:27:00 -
[467]
Edited by: Baaldor on 20/11/2009 01:28:15
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
This would not be a "Hot Topic" if CCP actually had someone working on these changes that had the slightest clue of what they are talking about.
|
Reapeat Offender
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:28:00 -
[468]
Why don't we just scrap the whole expansion since you've decided to remove one of the only things in it that you had gotten right.
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
-----------------------------------------------
Are GoonSwarm ever going to be allowed to build up in any way in 0.0 space again?
No.
-DB Preacher |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:29:00 -
[469]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
CCP Navigator;
This wouldn't be as hot a topic if we could get an explanation as to why CCP Abathur's very well received ideas were discarded two and a half weeks before Dominion, without announcement (somebody noticed it on Sisi), and have been replaced by CCP Nozh with very.... different... ideas.
The fact that the ideas that CCP Nozh has presented are as far as I can tell idiotic is only a small part of the problem; the larger problem is that they were introduced with no input from the players and with no explanation as to why CCP Abathur's changes were removed.
This is without even considering the effects that repeated announcements have had on the Mothership/supercarrier market.
Let's break it down:
CCP Abathur and players: extensive testing and balancing on sisi with supercarriers and titans. Result: well-received changes, ships were finally good enough to be worth using for their price. All signs point to these changes going to TQ.
- one week passes -
CCP Nozh: I am changing pretty much everything and giving no shred of an explanation why.
Players: WTF.
CCP Nozh: okay i guess those changes were bad, I'll give them an additional fighter and let them dock.
Players: DOUBLEYEW TEE EFF
- threadnaught occurs -
CCP Nozh: Well clearly since those ideas weren't well received we won't be doing anything to motherships at all. Also, you can totally target paint ships that are immune to electronic warfare.
Players: WHAT NONSENSE IS THIS
Even as someone without a direct interest in the state of motherships, the way this has panned out is frankly appalling and makes me feel betrayed.
Most of all, though,
Originally by: CCP Nozh
As designers we need to do is take a few steps back, deliberate more (with your help), go through more testing (also with your help) and really perfect the Mothership redesign.
The deliberation and testing was already done. CCP Abathur did it. Please explain why they were undone.
FREE ABATHUR
well said
|
z0186
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:29:00 -
[470]
Originally by: Yussef
Is this all a plot to turn MoMs into some kind of target painting super weapon?
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!
Unfortunately: Yes.
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Mioelnir
Minmatar
Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:29:00 -
[471]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
As designers we need to do is take a few steps back, deliberate more (with your help), go through more testing (also with your help) and really perfect the Mothership redesign.
Given that so far the playerbase hasn't been given even one single word on why the thousands of hours of playtesting of Abathur's changes on Sisi were thrown in the trash by another developer without any warning or explanation, what exactly makes you even consider that any player is still willing to volunteer his time to constructively test new ship designs? Just to maybe have them thrown out 2 weeks before deployment again?
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Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:29:00 -
[472]
Originally by: Baaldor
This would not be a "Hot Topic" if CCP actually had someone working on these changes that had the slightest clue on what they are talking about.
yeah really the 'hot topic' isnt that there are changes its that theyre all terrible and not thought out at all and this is coming out in under two weeks
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William Romeo
Caldari
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:30:00 -
[473]
This is so weak. CCP, don't let this fool ruin everything.
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Battle Tested
Shiva
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:30:00 -
[474]
FREE LITTLE DUDE ٩๏̯͡๏)۶
CCP ABATHUR MUST BE HEARD!!! |
Kushmir
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:30:00 -
[475]
٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶
|
Katsura Kotonoha
Caldari
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:30:00 -
[476]
Originally by: Telender
Edited by: Telender on 20/11/2009 01:28:20
Why is December 1st such an incredibly holy date? Why not simply admit that you guys are having a hard time putting everything together the way it needs to be and push the date back? The only thing the players care about are quality changes, and you guys act like the only thing that matters is meeting an arbitrary implementation deadline.
pr0tip: Stop making your devblogs have the tone of "THIS IS WHAT IS GOING TO CHANGE" because we keep making the idiotic mistake of BELIEVING YOU. If you're just kicking around some ideas then just kick them around.
It's a holy day for Iceland.
|
Dealer Dan
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:30:00 -
[477]
why did you break the phoenix again
|
Hertford
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:30:00 -
[478]
Dear CCP,
Your Capital Ships Game Designer, Nozh, thinks that titans, motherships, sieged dreads and anchored POS modules can be target painted.
Unironically, look at how stupid you are. |
Henglar
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:30:00 -
[479]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 20/11/2009 01:03:43
Target Painters
***Do NOT Work***
on Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps
this.
And thanx for nerfing the phoenix even more!
|
Allan Corday
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:31:00 -
[480]
Seriously, CCP Navigator, what's wrong with lil dude ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ ?
If CCP encourages player-driven and community storytelling, why do you discourage additions to the player lexicon?
|
|
|
Aprudena Gist
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:31:00 -
[481]
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
Then tell CCP Nozh to stop being and idiot and changing thing he knows nothing about and that were fine.
|
coeathal vega
Gallente
Reikoku
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:31:00 -
[482]
Edited by: coeathal vega on 20/11/2009 01:31:48
Originally by: Minto Took
Originally by: coeathal vega
jesus christ, what the **** is that... and what did you do with someone that actually had a GOOD IDEA OF HOW EVE WORKS ?
FREE SELEENE
When Goons and former-BoB agree on something, you know that something is horrifically wrong.
having that said :brofist:, no matter how many threadnaughts there will be, CCP will do whatever the **** they want - as in whatever brings in the more revenue.
This dev blog should be renamed to "Dev Blog : Capital ships in Domhahahhahahahahahahahaha"
Aaaaaaaaand I'm spent.
----
|
gobbloc
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:32:00 -
[483]
BANANAS ARE TOTALLY UNRELIABLE |
Ice Fist
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:32:00 -
[484]
Originally by: coeathal vega
Originally by: Minto Took
Originally by: coeathal vega
jesus christ, what the **** is that... and what did you do with someone that actually had a GOOD IDEA OF HOW EVE WORKS ?
FREE SELEENE
When Goons and former-BoB agree on something, you know that something is horrifically wrong.
having that said :brofist:, no matter how many threadnaughts there will be, CCP will do whatever the **** they want - as in whatever brings in the more revenue.
This dev blog should be renamed to "Dev Blod : Capital ships in Domhahahhahahahahahahahaha"
This made me burst out laughing in the middle of a dead silent (see boring) computer science lecture.
|
Brynn Aeon
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:33:00 -
[485]
/me checks calendar, sees its not April first.
I have this mental image of Abathur sitting in his office, feet on his desk, arms behind his head, with a giant banner running wall to wall behind him.
On that banner are the words:
I TOLD YOU SO!!!
|
ImnotwearingUnderwear
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:34:00 -
[486]
Originally by: Telender
Edited by: Telender on 20/11/2009 01:28:20
Why is December 1st such an incredibly holy date? Why not simply admit that you guys are having a hard time putting everything together the way it needs to be and push the date back? The only thing the players care about are quality changes, and you guys act like the only thing that matters is meeting an arbitrary implementation deadline.
pr0tip: Stop making your devblogs have the tone of "THIS IS WHAT IS GOING TO CHANGE" because we keep making the idiotic mistake of BELIEVING YOU. If you're just kicking around some ideas then just kick them around.
there is a good reason EA games is known for being a pile of crap, its called rushing a release date. this is the reason why people just pirate their games if they want to play them because there is a 75% chance it is going to be a piece of crap. ccp please do not become EA games rushing half assed changes to meet a due date
|
Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:35:00 -
[487]
Originally by: Brynn Aeon
/me checks calendar, sees its not April first.
I have this mental image of Abathur sitting in his office, feet on his desk, arms behind his head, with a giant banner running wall to wall behind him.
On that banner are the words:
I TOLD YOU SO!!!
i see him more impoverished and tattered, chained up in ccp's basement with all the other good ideas left to die
|
WrathOfOprah
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:35:00 -
[488]
Im going to quote the great Scott "Lum" Jennings:
"At some point someone - your producer, probably, that being his job and all - should have sat everyone down and said "you. can't. do. that." Those 200,000 customers - customers - you blithely dismiss as "dregs" and "weirdos" - are paying your salary. You can't just blow them off for the mythical millions of people looking for a better game."
|
Minto Took
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:35:00 -
[489]
Edited by: Minto Took on 20/11/2009 01:35:25
Originally by: ImnotwearingUnderwear
Originally by: Telender
Edited by: Telender on 20/11/2009 01:28:20
Why is December 1st such an incredibly holy date? Why not simply admit that you guys are having a hard time putting everything together the way it needs to be and push the date back? The only thing the players care about are quality changes, and you guys act like the only thing that matters is meeting an arbitrary implementation deadline.
pr0tip: Stop making your devblogs have the tone of "THIS IS WHAT IS GOING TO CHANGE" because we keep making the idiotic mistake of BELIEVING YOU. If you're just kicking around some ideas then just kick them around.
there is a good reason EA games is known for being a pile of crap, its called rushing a release date. this is the reason why people just pirate their games if they want to play them because there is a 75% chance it is going to be a piece of crap. ccp please do not become EA games rushing half assed changes to meet a due date
Counterpoint: Look at all the delays the Half-Life series had. And those games were amazing.
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Ban CCP Nozh (and stucks) |
Allan Corday
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:36:00 -
[490]
Dominion is a lie, just like Icelandic Sovereignty on December 1st 1918 is a lie.
Was Iceland sovereign in December 1940? What did Iceland do about all the British and American troops occupying their "sovereign" territory between 1940 and 2006?
Where is Iceland's banking system without a bailout from the International Monetary Fund?
Dominion is a lie, just like Icelandic Sovereignty is a lie.
|
|
|
Baaldor
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:37:00 -
[491]
Target Painters
***Do NOT Work***
on Supercaps,
Structures,
or Sieged Caps
|
Pointfive
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:38:00 -
[492]
Abathur when you get in to work tomorrow please go up to you boss and see if he wants you look at the capital ship changes real quick.
|
Kais Fiddler
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:39:00 -
[493]
You cannot be serious. All the changes that were tested for so long on Sisi are being rolled back, by a guy thta doesn't seem to understand caps or cap fights at all. How about you keep the mothership changes and work off of them to balance as required instead of scrapping the carefully reviewed ideas that plenty of players looked over. Even better how about you replace Nozh with someone competent and experienced in capital warfare, since he obviously is not.
I wonder how many of the large 0.0 alliances agree with your assessment Nohz, cause damn you don't seem to have much support in this thread.
|
Mynas Atoch
UK Corp
Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:39:00 -
[494]
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
Understood. I was so tempted to post one of the above prohibited symbols, but as you have explained, that would be WRONG.
Would it be possible for you to clarify how I use the target painter on my phoenix while shooting POS and when shooting my naglfar? I tried it on sisi earlier, but don't seem to be able to get it to work. Can we take it from this that you are announcing a new Capital Target Painter module, able to resist the effects of siege, negate the mechanics of POS modules and counter the properties of supercaps?
Please do NOT free Abathur till post Dominion 1.0 ... make him finish sov upgrades and warfare and stuff first. Then ask him very nicely to come back and fix this ̯bloomin' mess, kthx.
Also, please instead of sending CCP Nozh nothing's devblogs to someone in the community team to spell check, instead send them to QA to sanity check. Decent QA teams catch defects in design and documentation too, you know. ٩๏̯͡๏)۶
Myn
![]() |
Chalion
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:40:00 -
[495]
Edited by: Chalion on 20/11/2009 01:40:42
"At some point someone - your producer, probably, that being his job and all - should have sat everyone down and said "you. can't. do. that." Those 200,000 customers - customers - you blithely dismiss as "dregs" and "weirdos" - are paying your salary. You can't just blow them off for the mythical millions of people looking for a better game."
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
|
Battle Tested
Shiva
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:40:00 -
[496]
On a serious note....How can you, after admitting the mothership was broken in today's capital warfare, go back to it's original stats? How can you sit back and let people go into mass production after the well accepted and playerbase approved CCP Abathur changes to only change them to crap and then back to worse crap? Then, upon our dissaproval tell us we can't express our feelings of how you deceived us and how you are ruining the game that we have invested so much time and money into. This is bull****, straight up bull****. Just like SGE...EVE will be a thing of the past, and there is no fixing it once you push away your customers. |
Ilsea
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:41:00 -
[497]
Originally by: Baaldor
Target Painters
***Do NOT Work***
on Supercaps,
Structures,
or Sieged Caps
|
Pnuka
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:41:00 -
[498]
target painters? is the new enchantments?
|
Zedone
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:42:00 -
[499]
Thanks for totally ignoring all of the titan pilots who voiced their dislike of these horrible changes. I don't think there was a single titan pilot who favored this excessive nerf. Not one response was given to us on the titan feedback thread after the last major change. Why even ask us what we think? Seems you only listen if half of eve threatens to emoragewtfbbqquit..
The original idea was good and we responded that we liked the changes. We would've seen titan pilots joining the battlefield in combat. Then all of a sudden you pretty much shove us down a hole and carry on with your own joke of a balance nerf. Now this jump portal u call a titan, is a freaking joke.
Originally by: CCP Nozh
The Titans primary value should be as a fleet's logistical backbone
To sit at a pos, hand out fuel and jump people around? oh boy what a scarry ship that is.
It looks like we truly are just large dildos to you guys, that u seem to like to tease, and then walk away in laughter.
You really don't seem to care about your older(ingame) players.
Hire me for a couple weeks if you need, I live 5mins away from the HQ. I'll help u fix your problem if you're truly lacking people who actually play the game, and know that you can't target paint a sieged dread.
I've never said this about any eve patch before, but.. This is pure Fail. What a waste :(... Have a nice day.
___________________
|
the SNEEP
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:49:00 -
[500]
Originally by: Ralph42nd
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
Please keep silencing your customers because we disagree with you and yours. This tactic cannot possibly come back to bite you in the ***, or ***, or eve in your ***.
Oh dear if only EVERY other company in the world could get away with silencing their unhappy customers, oh wait ... no they can't.
Every new player heard about t20 pretty quickly. Everyone will hear about this too.
If you would simply answer our questions and LISTEN to the FEEDBACK we HAVE provided YOU, this would be water under the bridge.
You have a drooling idiot employed to balance the largest, most expensive ships in the game and he has ZERO (0, none, nadda, not a) clue how the game actually works. Can you explain to me why this is the case? Can you explain to me after the hundreds and potentially thousands of complaints you have received in this thread and other you have chosen to ignore us? Have your reprimanded this idiot in anyway?
Can you explain in clear concise english :words: why you are having issues pushing forward the changes the player base said was cool and wanted? Can you explain rationally why all these changes are being undone? Are we to believe you are going to change nothing about dominion aside from making 0.0 space less worth keeping and more worth quiting over? Also taking AOE DD's away from titans without an appropriate back up (what mom's would have been amiright) will see titans less used in battle than ever before, is there a reason behind this design decision?
All your ideas are stupid, childish, idiotic and shameful. At one point I as well as thousands of other players were looking forward to the big game changing patch, now we have to think about if it's worth resubbing for or not, and you don't care because we are saying bad stuff about you on your forum and your clearly in a PR stance of ignore it and maybe it will go away. Did the T20 threadnaught go away? Have your past ******ed blemishes gone away?
This thread has moved from it original topic to a demand for accountability at CCP Games, and if you can ****ing deal with that perhaps you should harden the **** up, and learn to play your own game, because you'll be the only people on the planet with a copy of it on your computers.
Fire that ****** Nozh, implement the changes the players tested and said were cool and were working. Else explain why not.
And don't post in this thread again with a warning about trolling and spamming when you won't answer what you have been asked.
TDLR : Fire Nozh, 'splain yourselves, STFU about people being ****ed off.
|
|
|
Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:52:00 -
[501]
Originally by: Ralph42nd
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
Please keep silencing your customers because we disagree with you and yours. This tactic cannot possibly come back to bite you in the ***, or ***, or eve in your ***.
Oh dear if only EVERY other company in the world could get away with silencing their unhappy customers, oh wait ... no they can't.
Every new player heard about t20 pretty quickly. Everyone will hear about this too.
If you would simply answer our questions and LISTEN to the FEEDBACK we HAVE provided YOU, this would be water under the bridge.
You have a drooling idiot employed to balance the largest, most expensive ships in the game and he has ZERO (0, none, nadda, not a) clue how the game actually works. Can you explain to me why this is the case? Can you explain to me after the hundreds and potentially thousands of complaints you have received in this thread and other you have chosen to ignore us? Have your reprimanded this idiot in anyway?
Can you explain in clear concise english :words: why you are having issues pushing forward the changes the player base said was cool and wanted? Can you explain rationally why all these changes are being undone? Are we to believe you are going to change nothing about dominion aside from making 0.0 space less worth keeping and more worth quiting over? Also taking AOE DD's away from titans without an appropriate back up (what mom's would have been amiright) will see titans less used in battle than ever before, is there a reason behind this design decision?
All your ideas are stupid, childish, idiotic and shameful. At one point I as well as thousands of other players were looking forward to the big game changing patch, now we have to think about if it's worth resubbing for or not, and you don't care because we are saying bad stuff about you on your forum and your clearly in a PR stance of ignore it and maybe it will go away. Did the T20 threadnaught go away? Have your past ******ed blemishes gone away?
This thread has moved from it original topic to a demand for accountability at CCP Games, and if you can ****ing deal with that perhaps you should harden the **** up, and learn to play your own game, because you'll be the only people on the planet with a copy of it on your computers.
Fire that ****** Nozh, implement the changes the players tested and said were cool and were working. Else explain why not.
And don't post in this thread again with a warning about trolling and spamming when you won't answer what you have been asked.
TDLR : Fire Nozh, 'splain yourselves, STFU about people being ****ed off.
i say damn
|
Coconut Bee
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:52:00 -
[502]
Originally by: Zedone
Thanks for totally ignoring all of the titan pilots who voiced their dislike of these horrible changes. I don't think there was a single titan pilot who favored this excessive nerf. Not one response was given to us on the titan feedback thread after the last major change. Why even ask us what we think? Seems you only listen if half of eve threatens to emoragewtfbbqquit..
Originally by: CCP Nozh
The Titans primary value should be as a fleet's logistical backbone
To sit at a pos, hand out fuel and jump people around? oh boy what a scarry ship that is.
/signed
This terrble idea of 'mobile JBs worth 60+ bill that will never leave the POS field' simply trashes tons of man-hours building it, not to mention that was the only opportunity to counter blobs.
Call this patch 'Blobinion', really.
|
Konoch
Caldari
Azriel's Legion
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:52:00 -
[503]
This situation is why i am more intrested in command ships.
|
Severion Atarkos
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:53:00 -
[504]
Edited by: Severion Atarkos on 20/11/2009 01:54:39
Dear Nozh,
you can't target paint a sieged dread, mothership or Titan
Sincerely,
Someone who has actually played this game beyond the tutorial.
|
Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:53:00 -
[505]
Does this mean Motherships also wont be getting the increased jump range? |
Etien Aldragoran
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:54:00 -
[506]
Wow, mothership pilots have no reason to log in right now because a cyno HIC can get two titans hot dropped and insta-pop the mothership.
"Hey guys, CCP here, we're not happy with the Sov system because it's sort of something that's just happened as we slowly add things over the years, so we're redoing it. We're also not happy with capital ships as they too have just sort of happened over the years, so we're redoing them too. However, we're not redoing all of them because that would just be silly."
|
Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:54:00 -
[507]
Edited by: Sertan Deras on 20/11/2009 01:54:54
Count down until CCP announces target painters are no longer considered ewar, and now effect POS's, POS mods, titans and motherships, just to cover up Nozh's complete lack of knowledge.
3...2...1...
|
White Aero
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:54:00 -
[508]
Originally by: Battle Tested
On a serious note....How can you, after admitting the mothership was broken in today's capital warfare, go back to it's original stats? How can you sit back and let people go into mass production after the well accepted and playerbase approved CCP Abathur changes to only change them to crap and then back to worse crap? Then, upon our dissaproval tell us we can't express our feelings of how you deceived us and how you are ruining the game that we have invested so much time and money into. This is bull****, straight up bull****.
Quoting for truth
|
Hk93g3
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:54:00 -
[509]
Gj ruining one of the best parts about this game.
/me looks for another game on the market.
|
Battle Tested
Shiva
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:55:00 -
[510]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Does this mean Motherships also wont be getting the increased jump range?
this means your 20+ bill investment is still a worthless trophy |
|
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Ice Fist
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:55:00 -
[511]
Holy God are you serious? You're sitting there deleting anything that sheds a negative light on your company? What on Earth is wrong with you people? Don't you have any respect for players outside of empire space?
You guys are a joke, and I didn't think this before today. But it's true. I hope you figure this out so I don't have to wait until a more competent company makes a new spaceship game that is as fun as this one has been so far. Right now I'm getting the "I don't have much more to look forward to" feeling that makes me get game ADD and leave you and the money I spend on you guys behind.
|
Sooshie
Insidious Existence
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:56:00 -
[512]
QUICK advertise Eve on more torrent sites because a lot of mothership characters will be turned off.. NEED to return that revenue stream!
|
Tamir Lenk
Caldari
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:56:00 -
[513]
Originally by: Vadinho
Originally by: Ralph42nd
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
Please keep silencing your customers because we disagree with you and yours. This tactic cannot possibly come back to bite you in the ***, or ***, or eve in your ***.
Oh dear if only EVERY other company in the world could get away with silencing their unhappy customers, oh wait ... no they can't.
Every new player heard about t20 pretty quickly. Everyone will hear about this too.
If you would simply answer our questions and LISTEN to the FEEDBACK we HAVE provided YOU, this would be water under the bridge.
You have a drooling idiot employed to balance the largest, most expensive ships in the game and he has ZERO (0, none, nadda, not a) clue how the game actually works. Can you explain to me why this is the case? Can you explain to me after the hundreds and potentially thousands of complaints you have received in this thread and other you have chosen to ignore us? Have your reprimanded this idiot in anyway?
Can you explain in clear concise english :words: why you are having issues pushing forward the changes the player base said was cool and wanted? Can you explain rationally why all these changes are being undone? Are we to believe you are going to change nothing about dominion aside from making 0.0 space less worth keeping and more worth quiting over? Also taking AOE DD's away from titans without an appropriate back up (what mom's would have been amiright) will see titans less used in battle than ever before, is there a reason behind this design decision?
All your ideas are stupid, childish, idiotic and shameful. At one point I as well as thousands of other players were looking forward to the big game changing patch, now we have to think about if it's worth resubbing for or not, and you don't care because we are saying bad stuff about you on your forum and your clearly in a PR stance of ignore it and maybe it will go away. Did the T20 threadnaught go away? Have your past ******ed blemishes gone away?
This thread has moved from it original topic to a demand for accountability at CCP Games, and if you can ****ing deal with that perhaps you should harden the **** up, and learn to play your own game, because you'll be the only people on the planet with a copy of it on your computers.
Fire that ****** Nozh, implement the changes the players tested and said were cool and were working. Else explain why not.
And don't post in this thread again with a warning about trolling and spamming when you won't answer what you have been asked.
TDLR : Fire Nozh, 'splain yourselves, STFU about people being ****ed off.
i say damn
Not emptyquoting this.
Post-Dominion Titans = Jumpbridges that someone pays a monthly subscription to maintain.
|
Toman Torax
Rage For Order
Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:56:00 -
[514]
Originally by: Ralph42nd
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
Please keep silencing your customers because we disagree with you and yours. This tactic cannot possibly come back to bite you in the ***, or ***, or eve in your ***.
Oh dear if only EVERY other company in the world could get away with silencing their unhappy customers, oh wait ... no they can't.
Every new player heard about t20 pretty quickly. Everyone will hear about this too.
If you would simply answer our questions and LISTEN to the FEEDBACK we HAVE provided YOU, this would be water under the bridge.
You have a drooling idiot employed to balance the largest, most expensive ships in the game and he has ZERO (0, none, nadda, not a) clue how the game actually works. Can you explain to me why this is the case? Can you explain to me after the hundreds and potentially thousands of complaints you have received in this thread and other you have chosen to ignore us? Have your reprimanded this idiot in anyway?
Can you explain in clear concise english :words: why you are having issues pushing forward the changes the player base said was cool and wanted? Can you explain rationally why all these changes are being undone? Are we to believe you are going to change nothing about dominion aside from making 0.0 space less worth keeping and more worth quiting over? Also taking AOE DD's away from titans without an appropriate back up (what mom's would have been amiright) will see titans less used in battle than ever before, is there a reason behind this design decision?
All your ideas are stupid, childish, idiotic and shameful. At one point I as well as thousands of other players were looking forward to the big game changing patch, now we have to think about if it's worth resubbing for or not, and you don't care because we are saying bad stuff about you on your forum and your clearly in a PR stance of ignore it and maybe it will go away. Did the T20 threadnaught go away? Have your past ******ed blemishes gone away?
This thread has moved from it original topic to a demand for accountability at CCP Games, and if you can ****ing deal with that perhaps you should harden the **** up, and learn to play your own game, because you'll be the only people on the planet with a copy of it on your computers.
Fire that ****** Nozh, implement the changes the players tested and said were cool and were working. Else explain why not.
And don't post in this thread again with a warning about trolling and spamming when you won't answer what you have been asked.
TDLR : Fire Nozh, 'splain yourselves, STFU about people being ****ed off.
Porco dio... I am quoting and agreeing with a Goon.
|
ImnotwearingUnderwear
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:57:00 -
[515]
Originally by: Ice Fist
Holy God are you serious? You're sitting there deleting anything that sheds a negative light on your company? What on Earth is wrong with you people? Don't you have any respect for players outside of empire space?
You guys are a joke, and I didn't think this before today. But it's true. I hope you figure this out so I don't have to wait until a more competent company makes a new spaceship game that is as fun as this one has been so far. Right now I'm getting the "I don't have much more to look forward to" feeling that makes me get game ADD and leave you and the money I spend on you guys behind.
obviously they don't care, this is supposed to be world of warcraft in space. now start grinding l4 missions
|
Fuujin
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:57:00 -
[516]
Originally by: Ice Fist
Holy God are you serious? You're sitting there deleting anything that sheds a negative light on your company? What on Earth is wrong with you people?
If this was true they would have deleted the dev blog by now.
|
Ash Donai
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:57:00 -
[517]
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Remember, posting something that is not constructive will be removed.
To be perfectly honest, you should start applying this standard to your own people, starting with the blog that's causing this s***storm.
It's seems like there are no internal controls at CCP, a dev can just wake up one day and post severely unbalancing changes without that anyone else on the team has another look at it or considers the consequences.
I am embarrassed for CCP. :(
Also, target painters do not work on ..., free Abathur, yadda yadda yadda ... |
Johli
Caldari
Thundercats
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:58:00 -
[518]
Here are awesome fighter bombers!
Here are new functions for your massive superexpensive ships!
nvm, maybe later
|
Mrs Trzzbk
Mothership Connection Inc.
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:59:00 -
[519]
All that I can take away from these rollbacks is that the Sov system in Dominion is still not actually ready to ship and they need everybody to get it into at least some form of "working" before Patch day.
_________________________________________________________
it's good to have land
Trust me, I'm a Spacebert. |
Behn Bhagvat
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:59:00 -
[520]
Kind of a waste of time and effort testing anything then eh? so its kinda just like lets just do THIS then... mmmmkay.....
|
|
|
Severion Atarkos
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:59:00 -
[521]
Edited by: Severion Atarkos on 20/11/2009 01:59:58
Seriously CCP, Don't let nozh ruin this game. The sc changes were fine two weeks ago until somehow he got assigned to it.
FFS nozh is trying to say that you can paint a seiged dread, mom, titan and that cap fights rarely happen at close range. HE DOESN'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT THE SHIPCLASSES YOU ARE LETTING HIM RUIN.
wake the **** up jesus christ
Sincerely,
Someone who has actually played this game beyond the tutorial.
|
Pnuka
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 01:59:00 -
[522]
Originally by: Sertan Deras
Edited by: Sertan Deras on 20/11/2009 01:54:54
Count down until CCP announces target painters are no longer considered ewar, and now effect POS's, POS mods, titans and motherships, just to cover up Nozh's complete lack of knowledge.
3...2...1...
Nah, if they do this then they have to un-nerf torps to they actually have the range to hit a large tower without max skills or rigs.
|
Battle Tested
Shiva
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:00:00 -
[523]
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ targetpaints CCP Abathur so he can be freed quicker!! |
Ice Fist
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:00:00 -
[524]
Originally by: Fuujin
Originally by: Ice Fist
Holy God are you serious? You're sitting there deleting anything that sheds a negative light on your company? What on Earth is wrong with you people?
If this was true they would have deleted the dev blog by now.
I stand corrected.
|
Hk93g3
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:01:00 -
[525]
CCP is the new Sony? EVE is the new SWG? C/D?
|
sorrotus
Thundercats
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:03:00 -
[526]
Originally by: Hk93g3
CCP is the new Sony? EVE is the new SWG? C/D?
C
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
Free Tibet!
|
Toman Torax
Rage For Order
Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:03:00 -
[527]
Serious and simple question - CCP PLEASE ANSWER THIS:
What was wrong with the changes Abathur proposed, which were tested, seemed fair and balanced, and were generally accepted?
|
Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:04:00 -
[528]
Originally by: Hk93g3
CCP is the new Sony? EVE is the new SWG? C/D?
i was there when sony released the details for the nge to their playerbase. i can remember watching them deleting waves of posts on their forums from their players warning them how bad of an idea the changes were, and i thought, how could a company be so stupid
how could a company be so stupid
|
Kasent
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:04:00 -
[529]
Originally by: Ralph42nd
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
Please keep silencing your customers because we disagree with you and yours. This tactic cannot possibly come back to bite you in the ***, or ***, or eve in your ***.
Oh dear if only EVERY other company in the world could get away with silencing their unhappy customers, oh wait ... no they can't.
Every new player heard about t20 pretty quickly. Everyone will hear about this too.
If you would simply answer our questions and LISTEN to the FEEDBACK we HAVE provided YOU, this would be water under the bridge.
You have a drooling idiot employed to balance the largest, most expensive ships in the game and he has ZERO (0, none, nadda, not a) clue how the game actually works. Can you explain to me why this is the case? Can you explain to me after the hundreds and potentially thousands of complaints you have received in this thread and other you have chosen to ignore us? Have your reprimanded this idiot in anyway?
Can you explain in clear concise english :words: why you are having issues pushing forward the changes the player base said was cool and wanted? Can you explain rationally why all these changes are being undone? Are we to believe you are going to change nothing about dominion aside from making 0.0 space less worth keeping and more worth quiting over? Also taking AOE DD's away from titans without an appropriate back up (what mom's would have been amiright) will see titans less used in battle than ever before, is there a reason behind this design decision?
All your ideas are stupid, childish, idiotic and shameful. At one point I as well as thousands of other players were looking forward to the big game changing patch, now we have to think about if it's worth resubbing for or not, and you don't care because we are saying bad stuff about you on your forum and your clearly in a PR stance of ignore it and maybe it will go away. Did the T20 threadnaught go away? Have your past ******ed blemishes gone away?
This thread has moved from it original topic to a demand for accountability at CCP Games, and if you can ****ing deal with that perhaps you should harden the **** up, and learn to play your own game, because you'll be the only people on the planet with a copy of it on your computers.
Fire that ****** Nozh, implement the changes the players tested and said were cool and were working. Else explain why not.
And don't post in this thread again with a warning about trolling and spamming when you won't answer what you have been asked.
TDLR : Fire Nozh, 'splain yourselves, STFU about people being ****ed off.
|
Kieselguhr Kid
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:05:00 -
[530]
free Nozh from the shackles of CCP employment
|
|
|
Battle Tested
Shiva
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:06:00 -
[531]
Originally by: Hk93g3
CCP is the new Sony? EVE is the new SWG? C/D?
Confirmed if CCP Nozh has anything to do with it.
Has anyone checked Nozh's application to see if he used to be on the Sony game developement team? |
Kieselguhr Kid
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:06:00 -
[532]
free Eve Online from the shackles of widely used motherships
|
Shiv Katall
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:06:00 -
[533]
Originally by: the SNEEP
Originally by: Ralph42nd
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
Please keep silencing your customers because we disagree with you and yours. This tactic cannot possibly come back to bite you in the ***, or ***, or eve in your ***.
Oh dear if only EVERY other company in the world could get away with silencing their unhappy customers, oh wait ... no they can't.
Every new player heard about t20 pretty quickly. Everyone will hear about this too.
If you would simply answer our questions and LISTEN to the FEEDBACK we HAVE provided YOU, this would be water under the bridge.
You have a drooling idiot employed to balance the largest, most expensive ships in the game and he has ZERO (0, none, nadda, not a) clue how the game actually works. Can you explain to me why this is the case? Can you explain to me after the hundreds and potentially thousands of complaints you have received in this thread and other you have chosen to ignore us? Have your reprimanded this idiot in anyway?
Can you explain in clear concise english :words: why you are having issues pushing forward the changes the player base said was cool and wanted? Can you explain rationally why all these changes are being undone? Are we to believe you are going to change nothing about dominion aside from making 0.0 space less worth keeping and more worth quiting over? Also taking AOE DD's away from titans without an appropriate back up (what mom's would have been amiright) will see titans less used in battle than ever before, is there a reason behind this design decision?
All your ideas are stupid, childish, idiotic and shameful. At one point I as well as thousands of other players were looking forward to the big game changing patch, now we have to think about if it's worth resubbing for or not, and you don't care because we are saying bad stuff about you on your forum and your clearly in a PR stance of ignore it and maybe it will go away. Did the T20 threadnaught go away? Have your past ******ed blemishes gone away?
This thread has moved from it original topic to a demand for accountability at CCP Games, and if you can ****ing deal with that perhaps you should harden the **** up, and learn to play your own game, because you'll be the only people on the planet with a copy of it on your computers.
Fire that ****** Nozh, implement the changes the players tested and said were cool and were working. Else explain why not.
And don't post in this thread again with a warning about trolling and spamming when you won't answer what you have been asked.
TDLR : Fire Nozh, 'splain yourselves, STFU about people being ****ed off.
Agreeing with this post.
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ FREE Abathur you can go ahead and ban me.
|
Hk93g3
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:07:00 -
[534]
Originally by: Behn Bhagvat
Kind of a waste of time and effort testing anything then eh? so its kinda just like lets just do THIS then... mmmmkay.....
QFT
|
Kieselguhr Kid
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:07:00 -
[535]
free CCP from the shackles of an 0.0 playerbase
|
Chalion
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:07:00 -
[536]
Originally by: Shiv Katall
Originally by: the SNEEP
Originally by: Ralph42nd
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
Please keep silencing your customers because we disagree with you and yours. This tactic cannot possibly come back to bite you in the ***, or ***, or eve in your ***.
Oh dear if only EVERY other company in the world could get away with silencing their unhappy customers, oh wait ... no they can't.
Every new player heard about t20 pretty quickly. Everyone will hear about this too.
If you would simply answer our questions and LISTEN to the FEEDBACK we HAVE provided YOU, this would be water under the bridge.
You have a drooling idiot employed to balance the largest, most expensive ships in the game and he has ZERO (0, none, nadda, not a) clue how the game actually works. Can you explain to me why this is the case? Can you explain to me after the hundreds and potentially thousands of complaints you have received in this thread and other you have chosen to ignore us? Have your reprimanded this idiot in anyway?
Can you explain in clear concise english :words: why you are having issues pushing forward the changes the player base said was cool and wanted? Can you explain rationally why all these changes are being undone? Are we to believe you are going to change nothing about dominion aside from making 0.0 space less worth keeping and more worth quiting over? Also taking AOE DD's away from titans without an appropriate back up (what mom's would have been amiright) will see titans less used in battle than ever before, is there a reason behind this design decision?
All your ideas are stupid, childish, idiotic and shameful. At one point I as well as thousands of other players were looking forward to the big game changing patch, now we have to think about if it's worth resubbing for or not, and you don't care because we are saying bad stuff about you on your forum and your clearly in a PR stance of ignore it and maybe it will go away. Did the T20 threadnaught go away? Have your past ******ed blemishes gone away?
This thread has moved from it original topic to a demand for accountability at CCP Games, and if you can ****ing deal with that perhaps you should harden the **** up, and learn to play your own game, because you'll be the only people on the planet with a copy of it on your computers.
Fire that ****** Nozh, implement the changes the players tested and said were cool and were working. Else explain why not.
And don't post in this thread again with a warning about trolling and spamming when you won't answer what you have been asked.
TDLR : Fire Nozh, 'splain yourselves, STFU about people being ****ed off.
Agreeing with this post.
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ FREE Abathur you can go ahead and ban me.
agreeing with the agree about agreeing.
|
Commander Tigre
Minmatar
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:07:00 -
[537]
Originally by: Ralph42nd
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
Please keep silencing your customers because we disagree with you and yours. This tactic cannot possibly come back to bite you in the ***, or ***, or eve in your ***.
Oh dear if only EVERY other company in the world could get away with silencing their unhappy customers, oh wait ... no they can't.
Every new player heard about t20 pretty quickly. Everyone will hear about this too.
If you would simply answer our questions and LISTEN to the FEEDBACK we HAVE provided YOU, this would be water under the bridge.
You have a drooling idiot employed to balance the largest, most expensive ships in the game and he has ZERO (0, none, nadda, not a) clue how the game actually works. Can you explain to me why this is the case? Can you explain to me after the hundreds and potentially thousands of complaints you have received in this thread and other you have chosen to ignore us? Have your reprimanded this idiot in anyway?
Can you explain in clear concise english :words: why you are having issues pushing forward the changes the player base said was cool and wanted? Can you explain rationally why all these changes are being undone? Are we to believe you are going to change nothing about dominion aside from making 0.0 space less worth keeping and more worth quiting over? Also taking AOE DD's away from titans without an appropriate back up (what mom's would have been amiright) will see titans less used in battle than ever before, is there a reason behind this design decision?
All your ideas are stupid, childish, idiotic and shameful. At one point I as well as thousands of other players were looking forward to the big game changing patch, now we have to think about if it's worth resubbing for or not, and you don't care because we are saying bad stuff about you on your forum and your clearly in a PR stance of ignore it and maybe it will go away. Did the T20 threadnaught go away? Have your past ******ed blemishes gone away?
This thread has moved from it original topic to a demand for accountability at CCP Games, and if you can ****ing deal with that perhaps you should harden the **** up, and learn to play your own game, because you'll be the only people on the planet with a copy of it on your computers.
Fire that ****** Nozh, implement the changes the players tested and said were cool and were working. Else explain why not.
And don't post in this thread again with a warning about trolling and spamming when you won't answer what you have been asked.
TDLR : Fire Nozh, 'splain yourselves, STFU about people being ****ed off.
/signed
/stamped
/verified
/notarized
"We Choose to listen to the lies we don't want to hear. The truth is, you're already dead." |
ToyD
Minmatar
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:08:00 -
[538]
Edited by: ToyD on 20/11/2009 02:08:26
Originally by: Kasent
Originally by: Ralph42nd
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
Please keep silencing your customers because we disagree with you and yours. This tactic cannot possibly come back to bite you in the ***, or ***, or eve in your ***.
Oh dear if only EVERY other company in the world could get away with silencing their unhappy customers, oh wait ... no they can't.
Every new player heard about t20 pretty quickly. Everyone will hear about this too.
If you would simply answer our questions and LISTEN to the FEEDBACK we HAVE provided YOU, this would be water under the bridge.
You have a drooling idiot employed to balance the largest, most expensive ships in the game and he has ZERO (0, none, nadda, not a) clue how the game actually works. Can you explain to me why this is the case? Can you explain to me after the hundreds and potentially thousands of complaints you have received in this thread and other you have chosen to ignore us? Have your reprimanded this idiot in anyway?
Can you explain in clear concise english :words: why you are having issues pushing forward the changes the player base said was cool and wanted? Can you explain rationally why all these changes are being undone? Are we to believe you are going to change nothing about dominion aside from making 0.0 space less worth keeping and more worth quiting over? Also taking AOE DD's away from titans without an appropriate back up (what mom's would have been amiright) will see titans less used in battle than ever before, is there a reason behind this design decision?
All your ideas are stupid, childish, idiotic and shameful. At one point I as well as thousands of other players were looking forward to the big game changing patch, now we have to think about if it's worth resubbing for or not, and you don't care because we are saying bad stuff about you on your forum and your clearly in a PR stance of ignore it and maybe it will go away. Did the T20 threadnaught go away? Have your past ******ed blemishes gone away?
This thread has moved from it original topic to a demand for accountability at CCP Games, and if you can ****ing deal with that perhaps you should harden the **** up, and learn to play your own game, because you'll be the only people on the planet with a copy of it on your computers.
Fire that ****** Nozh, implement the changes the players tested and said were cool and were working. Else explain why not.
And don't post in this thread again with a warning about trolling and spamming when you won't answer what you have been asked.
TDLR : Fire Nozh, 'splain yourselves, STFU about people being ****ed off.
Not emptyquoting a reasonable request for an explanation about a HUGE change at the 11th hour.
|
Shoukei
Caldari
Boobs Ahoy
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:10:00 -
[539]
Thank you CCP and Nozh for this brilliant thread. Looking forward to reading another 40 pages when i wake up!
|
fezfez
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:11:00 -
[540]
Originally by: Ralph42nd
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
Please keep silencing your customers because we disagree with you and yours. This tactic cannot possibly come back to bite you in the ***, or ***, or eve in your ***.
Oh dear if only EVERY other company in the world could get away with silencing their unhappy customers, oh wait ... no they can't.
Every new player heard about t20 pretty quickly. Everyone will hear about this too.
If you would simply answer our questions and LISTEN to the FEEDBACK we HAVE provided YOU, this would be water under the bridge.
You have a drooling idiot employed to balance the largest, most expensive ships in the game and he has ZERO (0, none, nadda, not a) clue how the game actually works. Can you explain to me why this is the case? Can you explain to me after the hundreds and potentially thousands of complaints you have received in this thread and other you have chosen to ignore us? Have your reprimanded this idiot in anyway?
Can you explain in clear concise english :words: why you are having issues pushing forward the changes the player base said was cool and wanted? Can you explain rationally why all these changes are being undone? Are we to believe you are going to change nothing about dominion aside from making 0.0 space less worth keeping and more worth quiting over? Also taking AOE DD's away from titans without an appropriate back up (what mom's would have been amiright) will see titans less used in battle than ever before, is there a reason behind this design decision?
All your ideas are stupid, childish, idiotic and shameful. At one point I as well as thousands of other players were looking forward to the big game changing patch, now we have to think about if it's worth resubbing for or not, and you don't care because we are saying bad stuff about you on your forum and your clearly in a PR stance of ignore it and maybe it will go away. Did the T20 threadnaught go away? Have your past ******ed blemishes gone away?
This thread has moved from it original topic to a demand for accountability at CCP Games, and if you can ****ing deal with that perhaps you should harden the **** up, and learn to play your own game, because you'll be the only people on the planet with a copy of it on your computers.
Fire that ****** Nozh, implement the changes the players tested and said were cool and were working. Else explain why not.
And don't post in this thread again with a warning about trolling and spamming when you won't answer what you have been asked.
TDLR : Fire Nozh, 'splain yourselves, STFU about people being ****ed off.
Agreeing with this again.
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩๏̯͡๏)۶
FREE Abathur
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Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:12:00 -
[541]
Atlas are going to Rule 0.0 with our Invincable Cap Fleet now! The Halo Implants Angels Drop means enemy Nags and Phoenix will do virtually No damage! muhahahaha!
Halos the new Slaves c/d?
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Sajeera
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:12:00 -
[542]
Must give the props to Nozh for achieving something that many great leaders failed at:
To unite all 0.0 ...... against himself 
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Puss Bag
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:12:00 -
[543]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
CCP Navigator;
This wouldn't be as hot a topic if we could get an explanation as to why CCP Abathur's very well received ideas were discarded two and a half weeks before Dominion, without announcement (somebody noticed it on Sisi), and have been replaced by CCP Nozh with very.... different... ideas.
The fact that the ideas that CCP Nozh has presented are as far as I can tell idiotic is only a small part of the problem; the larger problem is that they were introduced with no input from the players and with no explanation as to why CCP Abathur's changes were removed.
This is without even considering the effects that repeated announcements have had on the Mothership/supercarrier market.
Let's break it down:
CCP Abathur and players: extensive testing and balancing on sisi with supercarriers and titans. Result: well-received changes, ships were finally good enough to be worth using for their price. All signs point to these changes going to TQ.
- one week passes -
CCP Nozh: I am changing pretty much everything and giving no shred of an explanation why.
Players: WTF.
CCP Nozh: okay i guess those changes were bad, I'll give them an additional fighter and let them dock.
Players: DOUBLEYEW TEE EFF
- threadnaught occurs -
CCP Nozh: Well clearly since those ideas weren't well received we won't be doing anything to motherships at all. Also, you can totally target paint ships that are immune to electronic warfare.
Players: WHAT NONSENSE IS THIS
Even as someone without a direct interest in the state of motherships, the way this has panned out is frankly appalling and makes me feel betrayed.
Most of all, though,
Originally by: CCP Nozh
As designers we need to do is take a few steps back, deliberate more (with your help), go through more testing (also with your help) and really perfect the Mothership redesign.
The deliberation and testing was already done. CCP Abathur did it. Please explain why they were undone.
FREE ABATHUR
booooooooooosh.
Seriously CCP Nozh, I want to know, did you just get out of online video game school, somehow get hired by CCP, and just monkey**** your way into redoing motherships?
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ep1k
Minmatar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:12:00 -
[544]
It only took them 2 weeks to respond to the sovereignty issues with an update. Plenty of time for them to get this settled before dominion.
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Minto Took
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:13:00 -
[545]
Every 0.0 alliance should wardec CCP Alliance.
Just a thought.
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Ban CCP Nozh (and stucks) |
Hratli Smirks
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:14:00 -
[546]
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
Target painting? Seriously? You're gonna target paint that sieged dread?
Seriously I kind of think "CCP Nozh" is some kind of communal posting account that's being used to grief cap pilots which I think is great because honestly a real human being cannot seriously be in charge of balancing things when he knows less about capital ships than I do (a three month old player.)
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
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Rascael
Rascaels
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:15:00 -
[547]
Whine, *****, and Moan, Now you get what you want.
Too bad everyone that whined about the drop in price, loss of drones, and docking capabilities for the mom's they have cooking, will now whine that they are staying the same.
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Fire Hawk
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:15:00 -
[548]
Actually just spent some time on SISI looking at the dps of turrets on the Erebus VS Moros. with all skill at 5 a moros will out DPS an erebus purely becuase of the Base fitting of a dread ( most of them if not all have 3*damage mods and therefore increase the rate of fire). The erebus or the avatar under current game mechanics can not sacrifice those slots.
Under current game mechanics if a Titan gets tackle in a capital fight and remains tackle it would die in 3.5 minutes to a dread fleet, just like the one IT had running under 2 hours ago in a regular op.
Now CCP my questions are the following:
1) You claim you want the titan to be logistic ship, yet instead of boosting the logistic capabilities you just blaime the player base for not realising their role in the last 2+ years. Now do you really believe the player based community is too dum to realise the potential you claim? or wouldnt it be more logical that you CCP have infact undermined the role of the titan all together and have a wrong appreciation of their real value?
2) You say the titans will be able and I quote " to cause havock in a capital fight", may we the player base find out what facts you are baising this statement on? and no the number of HP is not that relevant when you see cap fights involving 300 dreads, where a pos is put in reinforce in under 3 minutes.
3) Every name you have choosen for the titans are based on legends or greek heroes... which represents death and suffering, how is that represented in your game mechanics? By being logistical beast? which by the way they arent, they just save you from doing a few jumps for lazzy ppl.
4)In an Economical " hypathetic" what is the return an alliance gets by building one titan (45 billion mins + BPC/BPO) over building lets say 30 dreads ( 750 million+BPC/BPO), the dreads will represent rafly 15 times more kills (even including new DD) and represent 3 to 4 more times more HP on the battle field.
5) By nerfing the titans and motherships so much, how do you justify the amount of hours spent by most 0.0 alliance over the last 2 years in the production of those mentioned super capitals.
6)By delaying the release of motherships based on your unhappyness with the changes and at the same time admitting the ship has no real purpuse, What you would say to current mothership pilots for them to keep paying their suscription for another 6 month? or do you actually expect them to just sit quietly and not moan?
7) How do you justify the change of development leadership over the last 2 weeks? Do you think those changes will affect your credibility?
8) as stated nultiple times in this thread that target painters dont work on the intended targets, How do you plan to implement new "effective chances" if you dev team does not seem to understand game mechanics in the firts place?
There are some many more questions is unfunny and tbh i¦d be already extremely surprise if you actually answer any question raised in this thread let alone one of mine.
___
Fear the french touch.
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Etien Aldragoran
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:17:00 -
[549]
O_______o
you're kidding......
target painting to boost capital missile damage.....
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:23:00 -
[550]
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Please keep your replies on topic. Remember, posting something that is not constructive will be removed.
Originally by: Bahamir
CooL!
^this is a constructive post.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
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Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:25:00 -
[551]
Any word on the suggested changes to address the 'slaves vs broken-crystal' implant issue that was mentioned a month ago and no one has heard anything about since? |
Lil Maniac
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:25:00 -
[552]
Originally by: Tamar Kaiz
Originally by: The Mittani
The playerbase tested the new motherships over several weeks on SiSi and found them good.
Some genius put you in charge of Abathur's good work, and now you've not only screwed up all the effort that went into testing those ships, now there's to be no improvement at all.
Where is your credibility on caps? Who are you? Have you fought in a supercapital, lost a supercapital on the field?
Is this the new CCP, or the old CCP rearing its terrible, incompetent head?
//Signed//
Get someone that know what they are doing in charge of this!!!
//Signed//
get a new Dev incharge of this!!!
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Conal Orion
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:26:00 -
[553]
Fact, regarding about 95% of current MMOs: customer service/relations really don't exist, despite fan convention seminars and testimonials otherwise.
Threats to suspend accounts and quit playing are generally disregarded, because all players are presumed to be hopeless, drooling addicts, who will never quit their current time and money investment. The only ones you really want to care about are new blood, because if you have enough new players replacing the ones that quit, you maintain enough market share, without having to provide any customer satisfaction-- spend the money on advertising, instead. Moreover, to new players, all your old content seems new and shiny.
Even if owners believe that some may quit, they generally presume that it will be a minority and that they'll still replace them, or make enough money.
Underestimating player discontent killed Warhammer Online recently.
If the playerbase actually does tough up, and enough quit to make the owners wake up, it may be too late for the game unless people are poised to re-up, and the owners know it.
Finally: not listening to players does have a reason behind it. Many players do not truly care about game balance (or even understand it), they just want more benefits for what they want to play. Therefore, management reasons, bowing to player pressure will ultimately kill the game anyway.
Obviously, going too far in either direction-- kowtowing to players or disregarding them-- is an error.
That said, there are veteran players here that CCP has, in the past, said that they listen to.
What it comes down to is this: if they don't listen, what will you do about it? If this is all emo-rage, with no follow up, then you simply prove that you have no clout. Empty threats don't accomplish very much. Spamming platitudes doesn't accomplish very much.
Are you actually prepared to suspend subs to make your point?
Ultimately, the paying consumer has only ONE tool when people stop listening to them. Stop paying. Never draw a line in the sand, unless you're willing to back it up.
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Cpt Underpants
Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:27:00 -
[554]
Originally by: The Mittani
The playerbase tested the new motherships over several weeks on SiSi and found them good.
Some genius put you in charge of Abathur's good work, and now you've not only screwed up all the effort that went into testing those ships, now there's to be no improvement at all.
Where is your credibility on caps? Who are you? Have you fought in a supercapital, lost a supercapital on the field?
Is this the new CCP, or the old CCP rearing its terrible, incompetent head?
/Signed
Also...
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 20/11/2009 01:03:43
Target Painters
***Do NOT Work***
on Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps
NOBODY who has this little knowledge of game mechanics should be handed such an important job.
Supercaps are the "end game" for many players and few ever reach that goal. You are effectively taking their love of your game, dropping your pants and taking a big fat dump on our respective foreheads.
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Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:28:00 -
[555]
Originally by: Battle Tested
On a serious note....How can you, after admitting the mothership was broken in today's capital warfare, go back to it's original stats? How can you sit back and let people go into mass production after the well accepted and playerbase approved CCP Abathur changes to only change them to crap and then back to worse crap? Then, upon our dissaproval tell us we can't express our feelings of how you deceived us and how you are ruining the game that we have invested so much time and money into. This is bull****, straight up bull****. Just like SGE...EVE will be a thing of the past, and there is no fixing it once you push away your customers.
WTB: legitimate response from CCP |
Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:28:00 -
[556]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Any word on the suggested changes to address the 'slaves vs broken-crystal' implant issue that was mentioned a month ago and no one has heard anything about since?
Woh there cowboy. They are still figuring out that capital fights happen at close range and that there are actually things that can't be target painted, lets slow our roll here. They'll get to really complicated stuff like completely broken implant sets when they figure out the basics. Lets give them some time.
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Ice Fist
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:29:00 -
[557]
This entire debacle is like promising people a ride in a first-class ocean-liner complete with alcohol, strippers, and good weather, and setting us in the middle of the north atlantic in a rowboat without a paddle with 20 foot swells on all sides.
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VonKaplanek III
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:29:00 -
[558]
I remember a few years back Mittens ordered a timely threadnaught to shame ccp into doing something. I don't agree with what they did but I remember the response from CCP. There was talk about bans and court proceedings etc etc etc.
Now CCP orcastrates the most explosive threadnaught ever 18 pages in just a shot period of time and climbing. So who are they going to ban and blame this time?
Mittens, Remedial and Darius, you can stop trying to ruin the game, CCP is doing just fine on their own.
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Puncher
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:31:00 -
[559]
:headshot:
Nozh single-handedly kills all of the most anticipated changes in your upcoming expansion.
hirr
Tribute: Welcome to the 'Nam. |
Etien Aldragoran
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:31:00 -
[560]
Guys, dont be fooled, this is just another part of CCP's Unholy Rage campaign to stop RMT.
Seriously, characters and ISK will be worthless when this stuff goes through.
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Jim Eat
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:32:00 -
[561]
Edited by: Jim Eat on 20/11/2009 02:35:34
CCP thanks for letting me waste all that time training up for a ship I don't even want to use anymore.
Why don't you figure out a way to let me convert all those skill points into something you haven't totaly screwed up yet?
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Mikel Banks
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:32:00 -
[562]
Originally by: VonKaplanek III
Mittens, Remedial and Darius, you can stop trying to ruin the game, CCP is doing just fine on their own.
blammo
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Headwires
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:33:00 -
[563]
Originally by: VonKaplanek III
I remember a few years back Mittens ordered a timely threadnaught to shame ccp into doing something. I don't agree with what they did but I remember the response from CCP. There was talk about bans and court proceedings etc etc etc.
Now CCP orcastrates the most explosive threadnaught ever 18 pages in just a shot period of time and climbing. So who are they going to ban and blame this time?
Mittens, Remedial and Darius, you can stop trying to ruin the game, CCP is doing just fine on their own.
our work here is done boys, time to go back to second life :smug:
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Johndalar
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:34:00 -
[564]
Don't roll out any of the Projectile changes! They are all half-ass'd and out of all the "feedback" you say you want you don't listen to any of it. My god your arty "alpha" fix works better on Ammar ships. I though CCP was a company that actually played the game and were a part of the community, thats what I was told anyway but thank you for showing me your not any different from Sony or Microsoft. Mark my words employees of CCP if this is how you company is going to run you will all be looking for new job by next year. and from what I hear it is kind of hard to GET a job in Iceland these days.....
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Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:34:00 -
[565]
Originally by: Jim Eat
CCP thanks for letting me waste all that time training up for a ship I don't even want to use anymore.
Why don't figure out a way to let me convert all those skill points into something you haven't totaly screwed up yet?
the only thing they havent screwed up is faction BS's for the lvl 4 empire mission runners....go figure? Good Luck in Motsu Jim |
Vanija
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:36:00 -
[566]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 20/11/2009 01:03:43
Target Painters
***Do NOT Work***
on Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps
CCP Nozh ^^ read that it provides valuable information.
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William Caldon
Caldari
Golden Cross Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:36:00 -
[567]
Edited by: William Caldon on 20/11/2009 02:39:51
Originally by: Ralph42nd
lots of rage, rage, I need to get out and see sunshine, etc
Wow, lots of rage there. You realize that trolling is against CCP's forum policy right? Thus they are in the right. Go on, keep being righteous...your not.
Also, I've noticed that 90% of all this feedback is basically trolling from Goons. Thus 90% is actually worthless. Go figure. Oh and keep flaming, it totally impresses your alliance, your corp and yourself. (In other words, you could be mature, but your not, thus making it hard for people like CCP and myself to take you seriously) Also, CCP has fully explained their actions. Why can't you figure that out?
@Minto: you have no idea what I do.
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Syno Ahlt
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:37:00 -
[568]
Edited by: Syno Ahlt on 20/11/2009 02:37:34
I normally don't post on CAOD, but this merited a post.
In all seriousness, what the hell were you guys at CCP thinking? At the risk of sounding like the hordes before me, do you even -play- this game? Seriously.... it's unbelievable. Absolutely mind-blowing how messed up this is.
Get someone who's competent. At very least, get someone who knows how this game works, and not someone safely walled off from real-word, real-time play.
I'm adding my voice to this cacophony to try to get you guys to change direction. You guys have a lot of talent, but it seems that your greatest talent is to arouse the entirely deserved anger of your paying customers. This game is designed for -us-. If you've got 2 pages per minute of posts about how awful a set of prescribed changes are, that probably means they're pretty awful.
I know my one post among many will probably not make much of a difference, but this travesty deserved a sincere reply.
So here it is:
CCP, you guys need to listen to us. Listen to us, not to calculator-punchers who don't ever log in or fly in combat. LISTEN TO US. Bring back the people who do.
Peace.
Btw, for some reason it posted this on my alt's name, but this is Ghuarran.
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Vanija
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:37:00 -
[569]
Also, you are ****ing terrible. Hopes this helps.
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Minto Took
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:37:00 -
[570]
Edited by: Minto Took on 20/11/2009 02:41:21
Edited by: Minto Took on 20/11/2009 02:40:51
Originally by: William Caldon
Originally by: Ralph42nd
lots of rage, rage, I need to get out and see sunshine, etc
Wow, lots of rage there. You realize that trolling is against CCP's forum policy right? Thus they are in the right. Go on, keep being righteous...your not.
Also, I've noticed that 90% of all this feedback is basically trolling from Goons. Thus 90% is actually worthless. Go figure. Oh and keep flaming, it totally impresses your alliance, your corp and yourself. (In other words, you could be mature, but your not, thus making it hard for people like CCP and myself to take you seriously) Also, CCP has fully explained their actions. Why can't you figure that out?
Go back to your high-sec missions.
Also, I only consider opinions from people who understand the proper usage of "your" and "you're."
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Ban CCP Nozh (and stucks) |
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Chalion
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:39:00 -
[571]
Originally by: William Caldon
Originally by: Ralph42nd
lots of rage, rage, I need to get out and see sunshine, etc
Wow, lots of rage there. You realize that trolling is against CCP's forum policy right? Thus they are in the right. Go on, keep being righteous...your not.
Also, I've noticed that 90% of all this feedback is basically trolling from Goons. Thus 90% is actually worthless. Go figure. Oh and keep flaming, it totally impresses your alliance, your corp and yourself. (In other words, you could be mature, but your not, thus making it hard for people like CCP and myself to take you seriously) Also, CCP has fully explained their actions. Why can't you figure that out?
You can't call cuba.
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Vanija
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:39:00 -
[572]
Originally by: William Caldon
Originally by: Ralph42nd
lots of rage, rage, I need to get out and see sunshine, etc
Wow, lots of rage there. You realize that trolling is against CCP's forum policy right? Thus they are in the right. Go on, keep being righteous...your not.
Also, I've noticed that 90% of all this feedback is basically trolling from Goons. Thus 90% is actually worthless. Go figure. Oh and keep flaming, it totally impresses your alliance, your corp and yourself. (In other words, you could be mature, but your not, thus making it hard for people like CCP and myself to take you seriously) Also, CCP has fully explained their actions. Why can't you figure that out?
Because they explanations make no sense.
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Psi Klone
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:41:00 -
[573]
This is WEAK! Go back to the old capital changes that have already undergone months worth of testing on Sisi which the player base is happy with. Get your act together CCP!
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Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:41:00 -
[574]
Originally by: William Caldon
Edited by: William Caldon on 20/11/2009 02:39:51
Originally by: Ralph42nd
lots of rage, rage, I need to get out and see sunshine, etc
Wow, lots of rage there. You realize that trolling is against CCP's forum policy right? Thus they are in the right. Go on, keep being righteous...your not.
Also, I've noticed that 90% of all this feedback is basically trolling from Goons. Thus 90% is actually worthless. Go figure. Oh and keep flaming, it totally impresses your alliance, your corp and yourself. (In other words, you could be mature, but your not, thus making it hard for people like CCP and myself to take you seriously) Also, CCP has fully explained their actions. Why can't you figure that out?
@Minto: you have no idea what I do.
Please link where any of my questions or anyone else's have been fully answered.
Thank You
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Kris Longknife
Insidious Existence
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:41:00 -
[575]
Originally by: Syno Ahlt
Edited by: Syno Ahlt on 20/11/2009 02:37:34
I normally don't post on CAOD, but this merited a post.
.
This Isn't COAD, this is real. This is happening, waking up from the nightmare isn't going to be a valid option
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Xareth Tovan
New Eden Rock Doctors
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:42:00 -
[576]
Originally by: William Caldon
Edited by: William Caldon on 20/11/2009 02:39:51
Originally by: Ralph42nd
lots of rage, rage, I need to get out and see sunshine, etc
Wow, lots of rage there. You realize that trolling is against CCP's forum policy right? Thus they are in the right. Go on, keep being righteous...your not.
Also, I've noticed that 90% of all this feedback is basically trolling from Goons. Thus 90% is actually worthless. Go figure. Oh and keep flaming, it totally impresses your alliance, your corp and yourself. (In other words, you could be mature, but your not, thus making it hard for people like CCP and myself to take you seriously) Also, CCP has fully explained their actions. Why can't you figure that out?
@Minto: you have no idea what I do.
what you have failed to notice is the fact that goons, AAA, IT are all agreeing. that alone speaks volumes
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Ice Fist
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:43:00 -
[577]
Originally by: William Caldon
Originally by: Ralph42nd
lots of rage, rage, I need to get out and see sunshine, etc
Wow, lots of rage there. You realize that trolling is against CCP's forum policy right? Thus they are in the right. Go on, keep being righteous...your not.
Also, I've noticed that 90% of all this feedback is basically trolling from Goons. Thus 90% is actually worthless. Go figure. Oh and keep flaming, it totally impresses your alliance, your corp and yourself. (In other words, you could be mature, but your not, thus making it hard for people like CCP and myself to take you seriously) Also, CCP has fully explained their actions. Why can't you figure that out?
Quoting someone that isn't ever going to set foot in nullsec and probably won't ever fly a capital ship. Yeah there are alot of us Goons here, but if you noticed we have IT, AAA, Bobby Atlas of all people trolling and agreeing along with us. And it doesn't matter that they explained their reasons, its that their reasons suck. Damn, everytime a politician explains their reasons do you bite and go "ok, do what you want" then too? What is so difficult for you nose-bleeding empire carebears to understand? They promised us gold and are paying us in hopes and dreams. What is NOT to be upset about in our position?
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razzo
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:44:00 -
[578]
Edited by: razzo on 20/11/2009 02:45:57
Originally by: Fire Hawk
Actually just spent some time on SISI looking at the dps of turrets on the Erebus VS Moros. with all skill at 5 a moros will out DPS an erebus purely becuase of the Base fitting of a dread ( most of them if not all have 3*damage mods and therefore increase the rate of fire). The erebus or the avatar under current game mechanics can not sacrifice those slots.
Under current game mechanics if a Titan gets tackle in a capital fight and remains tackle it would die in 3.5 minutes to a dread fleet, just like the one IT had running under 2 hours ago in a regular op.
Now CCP my questions are the following:
1) You claim you want the titan to be logistic ship, yet instead of boosting the logistic capabilities you just blaime the player base for not realising their role in the last 2+ years. Now do you really believe the player based community is too dum to realise the potential you claim? or wouldnt it be more logical that you CCP have infact undermined the role of the titan all together and have a wrong appreciation of their real value?
2) You say the titans will be able and I quote " to cause havock in a capital fight", may we the player base find out what facts you are baising this statement on? and no the number of HP is not that relevant when you see cap fights involving 300 dreads, where a pos is put in reinforce in under 3 minutes.
3) Every name you have choosen for the titans are based on legends or greek heroes... which represents death and suffering, how is that represented in your game mechanics? By being logistical beast? which by the way they arent, they just save you from doing a few jumps for lazzy ppl.
4)In an Economical " hypathetic" what is the return an alliance gets by building one titan (45 billion mins + BPC/BPO) over building lets say 30 dreads ( 750 million+BPC/BPO), the dreads will represent rafly 15 times more kills (even including new DD) and represent 3 to 4 more times more HP on the battle field.
5) By nerfing the titans and motherships so much, how do you justify the amount of hours spent by most 0.0 alliance over the last 2 years in the production of those mentioned super capitals.
6)By delaying the release of motherships based on your unhappyness with the changes and at the same time admitting the ship has no real purpuse, What you would say to current mothership pilots for them to keep paying their suscription for another 6 month? or do you actually expect them to just sit quietly and not moan?
7) How do you justify the change of development leadership over the last 2 weeks? Do you think those changes will affect your credibility?
8) as stated nultiple times in this thread that target painters dont work on the intended targets, How do you plan to implement new "effective chances" if you dev team does not seem to understand game mechanics in the firts place?
There are some many more questions is unfunny and tbh i¦d be already extremely surprise if you actually answer any question raised in this thread let alone one of mine.
/signed/
/signed/ |
William Caldon
Caldari
Golden Cross Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:44:00 -
[579]
Edited by: William Caldon on 20/11/2009 02:45:40
"During the development of Dominion we have been looking at the whole of capital ship warfare and in particular the Motherships--reviewing their place on the battlefield and our goals for them as designers. We're unhappy with the role they currently occupy in practice and after much deliberation and testing we aren't happier with the direction we were taking them as anti-capital Supercarriers. In too short a time we've redesigned a ship class that doesn't have a unique enough role or serve a diverse enough purpose. These are massive ships that require amazing amounts resources to produce. They are part of the power equation of EVE's unique and important Alliance Warfare. As designers we need to do is take a few steps back, deliberate more (with your help), go through more testing (also with your help) and really perfect the Mothership redesign."
There. Underlined the important parts. That explains all your questions, just not in the way you want.
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Vanija
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:48:00 -
[580]
Get on stickam and we can drink together.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:48:00 -
[581]
Originally by: William Caldon
Also, I've noticed that 90% of all this feedback is basically trolling from Goons. Thus 90% is actually worthless.
Did you not notice that the posts that goons are making are requesting the same thing that everyone else is?
Originally by: William Caldon
Also, CCP has fully explained their actions.
No.
RELEASE ABATHUR FROM BONDAGE
________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito
PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
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Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:48:00 -
[582]
Originally by: William Caldon
"During the development of Dominion we have been looking at the whole of capital ship warfare and in particular the Motherships--reviewing their place on the battlefield and our goals for them as designers. We're unhappy with the role they currently occupy in practice and after much deliberation and testing we aren't happier with the direction we were taking them as anti-capital Supercarriers. In too short a time we've redesigned a ship class that doesn't have a unique enough role or serve a diverse enough purpose. These are massive ships that require amazing amounts resources to produce. They are part of the power equation of EVE's unique and important Alliance Warfare. As designers we need to do is take a few steps back, deliberate more (with your help), go through more testing (also with your help) and really perfect the Mothership redesign."
There. Underlined the important parts. That explains all your questions, just not in the way you want.
Do you regularly accept the game design acumen of someone who didn't know what ships could and couldn't be target painted, and didn't know capital ships fight at close range? Seems to me, that if he doesn't know those basic things, then he isn't qualified to be giving us reasons as to why he's decided to go back on months of discussion and play testing.
Answer me this: Why would any of us now want to "help" him re-design motherships? So more of our time can be wasted on ideas CCP will implement, test, get a massive amount of positive feedback from, then back out of for, at best, shaky reasons that are barely explained, leaving an 18bn ISK ship worthless for another six months?
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Valanan
Caldari
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:49:00 -
[583]
Edited by: Valanan on 20/11/2009 02:50:44
Well, I was running a second account to train a Cap Alt guess I don't need to anymore.
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Minto Took
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:49:00 -
[584]
Originally by: William Caldon
Edited by: William Caldon on 20/11/2009 02:46:55
Edited by: William Caldon on 20/11/2009 02:45:40
"During the development of Dominion we have been looking at the whole of capital ship warfare and in particular the Motherships--reviewing their place on the battlefield and our goals for them as designers. We're unhappy with the role they currently occupy in practice and after much deliberation and testing we aren't happier with the direction we were taking them as anti-capital Supercarriers. In too short a time we've redesigned a ship class that doesn't have a unique enough role or serve a diverse enough purpose. These are massive ships that require amazing amounts resources to produce. They are part of the power equation of EVE's unique and important Alliance Warfare. As designers we need to do is take a few steps back, deliberate more (with your help), go through more testing (also with your help) and really perfect the Mothership redesign."
There. Underlined the important parts. That explains all your questions, just not in the way you want.
Someone not in a 0.0 alliance tries to comment about ships used in 0.0 alliances.
lol
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Ban CCP Nozh (and stucks) |
Gouglash
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:51:00 -
[585]
I just want to let you know that I just came back to this game after a year off. I left because your ridiculous company reimbursed a titan due to "server logs showed..." in a fight where we dropped about 400 people onto it, and the server didn't even crash. I'm sure that people not even familiar with this incident can guess what alliance that titan belonged to.
So I finally got over it, and decided to give the game a chance, and I'm only a month back and I have to admit that this one employee of yours, Nozh, is quite possibly even more ridiculous than whatever dolt reimbursed that titan.
You set a high bar, CCP. I thought you'd never be able to top it, but you did.
Congratulations.
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Slayton Ford
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:52:00 -
[586]
Nohz should be fixing AFs, not caps. At least then his changes won't cost the player base a significant amount of isk.
It seems CCP wants a ship thats a carrier but better but not as good as a Mom. Fine. Create a supercarrier. Base it off a carrier hull, give it 2x the HP of a carrier, let it use up to 15 drones/fighterbombers/etc. No ewar immunity, let it dock, let it cost ~5-6b. Its simple and could be done in a day. Keep the mom the same except give it 5x the HP of a carrier and can use up to 20 fighterbombers/drones/etc. Its still a red-headed-stepchild but it isn't instapoppped now.
The dread changes show that there was no thought or intelligence involved. Unless close range is 10k. Also, you guys finally fixed Nag and now the nerf. Yea, Nerf minmatar is the CCP rule, I guess they couldn't find another minmatar ship to nerf this patch anyways.
---------------
This sig has been censored in fear of recieving the ban hammer... |
The Mittani
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:55:00 -
[587]
I was having a chat with a goon director who shall remain nameless, and they pointed out to me an issue which I think we should consider in a sober light.
At fanfest, CCP made a big production about how their new corporate rallying cry for this year was 'Excellence'. They showed videos and even had that delightful little rap-rock "HTFU" thing proclaiming their solidarity as a company and the quality of their work.
Does someone who does not comprehend basic aspects of capital warfare - or even ewar mechanics - being in charge of the capital dev portfolio represent CCP's 'Excellence'?
As much as I'd like to simply post lil dude and talk about how wonderful - or shall I say 'excellent' CCP Abathurs changes were - how delightful it was to see a transparent, two-way feedback process between devs and players on Sisi - this blog forces the question.
Where's the excellence?
Sins of a Solar Spymaster: my ~fair and balanced~ column
TheMittani @ Twitter
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Toman Torax
Rage For Order
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:56:00 -
[588]
Originally by: William Caldon
Edited by: William Caldon on 20/11/2009 02:46:55
Edited by: William Caldon on 20/11/2009 02:45:40
"During the development of Dominion we have been looking at the whole of capital ship warfare and in particular the Motherships--reviewing their place on the battlefield and our goals for them as designers. We're unhappy with the role they currently occupy in practice and after much deliberation and testing we aren't happier with the direction we were taking them as anti-capital Supercarriers. In too short a time we've redesigned a ship class that doesn't have a unique enough role or serve a diverse enough purpose. These are massive ships that require amazing amounts resources to produce. They are part of the power equation of EVE's unique and important Alliance Warfare. As designers we need to do is take a few steps back, deliberate more (with your help), go through more testing (also with your help) and really perfect the Mothership redesign."
There. Underlined the important parts. That explains all your questions, just not in the way you want.
Hey there empire buddy... guess what? They proposed a new role for these ships. They seemed good, and were balanced. People generally liked them.
Then something happened.
Abathur's ideas were scrapped. This guy Nozh came in - someone who doesn't even know how simple mechanics work/do not work with capital ships. He puked out some ideas, and people were like WTF? Then he came back later and said "okay so that won't work, so lets try this instead". And that had an even worse reaction.
Now, instead of going back to a set of ideas THAT WERE TESTED AND ACCEPTED AS FINE... CCP's response is "**** it, we'll do NOTHING instead".
Do you see the problem with any of this?
No, of course you don't. You never leave empire.
And obviously, some of the people WORKING on this game don't actually PLAY it.
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disposable tradealt
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:56:00 -
[589]
Originally by: Slayton Ford
Yea, Nerf minmatar is the CCP rule, I guess they couldn't find another minmatar ship to nerf this patch anyways.
They already nerfed all the good ones anyway.
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WrathOfOprah
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:57:00 -
[590]
Originally by: Gouglash
I just want to let you know that I just came back to this game after a year off. I left because your ridiculous company reimbursed a titan due to "server logs showed..." in a fight where we dropped about 400 people onto it, and the server didn't even crash. I'm sure that people not even familiar with this incident can guess what alliance that titan belonged to.
This story is hard to believe because we all know that CCP's logs never show anything.
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Johndalar
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:57:00 -
[591]
I want to be a fly on the wall when its morning in iceland and the boss sees this. Heads are going to roll
And for good reason, you fail to communicate to your customers and now the hand that feeds you is biting back.
If there is a logical explanation for the past two weeks I would love to hear it but until you give us the "feedback" we need I am with the mob. I Want Heads!
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razzo
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:57:00 -
[592]
Originally by: Slayton Ford
Nohz should be fixing AFs, not caps. At least then his changes won't cost the player base a significant amount of isk.
It seems CCP wants a ship thats a carrier but better but not as good as a Mom. Fine. Create a supercarrier. Base it off a carrier hull, give it 2x the HP of a carrier, let it use up to 15 drones/fighterbombers/etc. No ewar immunity, let it dock, let it cost ~5-6b. Its simple and could be done in a day. Keep the mom the same except give it 5x the HP of a carrier and can use up to 20 fighterbombers/drones/etc. Its still a red-headed-stepchild but it isn't instapoppped now.
The dread changes show that there was no thought or intelligence involved. Unless close range is 10k. Also, you guys finally fixed Nag and now the nerf. Yea, Nerf minmatar is the CCP rule, I guess they couldn't find another minmatar ship to nerf this patch anyways.
//Signed//
And you should ask CCP if you cant replace Nozh.
Looks like you would do a better job just from that post. |
Isaac Starstriker
Amarr
The Confederate Navy
Forever Unbound
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:58:00 -
[593]
Edited by: Isaac Starstriker on 20/11/2009 03:01:05
Try me. Let me guess, that would be someone who holds sov, because anyone else who doesn't hold sov: "DOESN'T UNDERSTAND OUR PAIN!!!". (and if that isn't elitist, I don't know what is...) While I sympathize with those who fly Motherships, wouldn't you rather that CCP release quality products? Considering, I might add, these quality products are free. Take a chill pill you guys, geez....you make this one dev blog sound like the entire expansion is ruined. While the Target painting comment was a bit whacked, I'll agree, I think your blowing it out of proportion.
So tl;dr: chilllllllllllll.
Did I mention I brought a flame-proof suit?
Hah, not going to give quoters the pleasure...
Signature is now under construction: check back in a couple weeks. Or months....
AMAAR VICTOR!
"You just can't fix stupid"
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Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:00:00 -
[594]
Guys guys, the person who is in control of the most expensive ships in the game doesn't understand basic game mechanics. It's cool though, chillllllll.
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Hratli Smirks
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:00:00 -
[595]
Edited by: Hratli Smirks on 20/11/2009 03:04:07
Serious post: Did nobody kind of look over this thing and say, "Hey, man, you can't targetpaint POS modules or sieged/triaged capitals or really anything a capital is supposed to shoot at." I mean it isn't like Nozh is running a one man show here, somebody had to bring this up at some point, right?
Unless this is really just a big troll like I was saying before.
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Kushmir
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:01:00 -
[596]
٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶www.gaytube.com٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶
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Ferroque
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:02:00 -
[597]
"heh"
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Vanija
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:03:00 -
[598]
Originally by: Hratli Smirks
Serious post: Did nobody kind of look over this thing and say, "Hey, man, you can't targetpaint POS modules or sieged/triaged capitals." I mean it isn't like Nozh is running a one man show here, somebody had to bring this up at some point, right?
Unless this is really just a big troll like I was saying before.
Obviously you don't realize how ******ed CCP is....
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Minto Took
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:03:00 -
[599]
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
...wouldn't you rather that CCP release quality products?
They could, you know, push back the release date.
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Ban CCP Nozh (and stucks) |
Astetta
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:04:00 -
[600]
Edited by: Astetta on 20/11/2009 03:04:21
Hey guys, this internet spaceship game wasn't really all that fun anyway. Let's go find one where the developers have a clue and use their own product.
٩๏̯͡๏)۶__________/
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Valanan
Caldari
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:05:00 -
[601]
Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
While I sympathize with those who fly Motherships, wouldn't you rather that CCP release quality products?
The original version of the changes were a quality product that was well tested and well received by the playerbase?
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Ferroque
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:06:00 -
[602]
dominion will be hilarious, just look at this devblog
the catastrophic collapse of everything
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iP0D
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:07:00 -
[603]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
CCP Navigator;
This wouldn't be as hot a topic if we could get an explanation as to why CCP Abathur's very well received ideas were discarded two and a half weeks before Dominion, without announcement (somebody noticed it on Sisi), and have been replaced by CCP Nozh with very.... different... ideas.
You got that answer between the blue lines some time ago in a previous feedback thread to a previous devblog.
Players do not decide game design changes.
In a way that is correct, but since CCP adopted SCRUM it might be an idea to get the manual and look up the concept and impact of the stakeholder group in SCRUM development.
Effectively speaking what you see here is clear display of CCP not implementing SCRUM except for the little tasks, once it hits the big picture level they are still bumping into the old syndrome of little kingdoms making the kind of arbitrary decisions which in the past have already led to major upheavals.
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itsan egro
Goony Hand Social Club
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:07:00 -
[604]
This entire Dominion patch is the definition of "Excellence." The type of excellence that SOE would be proud of, but in this case you've taken changes that the playerbase were generally happy with, then 2 weeks before the changes completely redid them. Even when SOE pushed out NGE they could at least say it was a bad idea from the start that killed their game, whereas you've taken a lot of good changes and turned them into garbage to try to torpedo your big expansion.
This is now shaping up into an excellently horrible update in which you overpromised and apparently are going to way under deliver, what with pushing assfrigs back as well and nerfing the titan bonus changes which actually would have had them on the field in big fights. Everything Nozh has done has been excellent if your goal is to throw away every positive change you made with super caps.
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Zitha
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:09:00 -
[605]
Edited by: Zitha on 20/11/2009 03:09:21
Oh no... at least please give the Motherships the HP boost and leave everything else intact until CCP finally decides about how to improve it!
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Magnus Orin
Minmatar
United Systems Navy
Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:09:00 -
[606]
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
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Sooshie
Insidious Existence
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:10:00 -
[607]
Many people have payed years on this game for specific accounts to run motherships on top of their other main accounts. They cannot take these characters, leave their ships and go off and play around in a recon ship or battleship. Now CCP is releasing a patch where faction ships are superior to motherships and titans can go up to motherships and go BOOM to them with their giant lasers.. And we are supposed to just stick around expect to pay our sub fees for 6 months while CCP pays this? No CCP should be offering mothership owners free subscriptions for the next 6 months or however long it takes for them to fix this since CCP is now making their accounts/ships totally useless in the in-game environment. That or refund refund peoples sub fees for their super capital characters entirely as well as the isk invested in the supercapitals themselves.
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Drago27
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:11:00 -
[608]
Originally by: itsan egro
This entire Dominion patch is the definition of "Excellence." The type of excellence that SOE would be proud of, but in this case you've taken changes that the playerbase were generally happy with, then 2 weeks before the changes completely redid them.
Over the years SOE and CCP have always had two things in common: Incompetence at game balance and cheating developers.
This is just keeping the trend alive.
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Telender
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:12:00 -
[609]
Originally by: ep1k
It only took them 2 weeks to respond to the sovereignty issues with an update. Plenty of time for them to get this settled before dominion.
And then reverse themselves again.
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Vanija
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:12:00 -
[610]
Originally by: iP0D
Players do not decide game design changes.
We decide with our pocket books, and the entire player base from nullsec is upset over these changes.
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Dealer Dan
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:12:00 -
[611]
Originally by: The Mittani
I was having a chat with a goon director who shall remain nameless, and they pointed out to me an issue which I think we should consider in a sober light.
At fanfest, CCP made a big production about how their new corporate rallying cry for this year was 'Excellence'. They showed videos and even had that delightful little rap-rock "HTFU" thing proclaiming their solidarity as a company and the quality of their work.
Does someone who does not comprehend basic aspects of capital warfare - or even ewar mechanics - being in charge of the capital dev portfolio represent CCP's 'Excellence'?
As much as I'd like to simply post lil dude and talk about how wonderful - or shall I say 'excellent' CCP Abathurs changes were - how delightful it was to see a transparent, two-way feedback process between devs and players on Sisi - this blog forces the question.
Where's the excellence?
An excellent company would sit down, put a team on capitals and work every night until dominion to give motherships a role this patch, give titans a reason to exist, fix capital missiles, and figure out how to not break the naglfar.
Lets see what ccp does. I hope it doesn't involve target painting.
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iP0D
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:12:00 -
[612]
Originally by: The Mittani
I was having a chat with a goon director who shall remain nameless, and they pointed out to me an issue which I think we should consider in a sober light.
At fanfest, CCP made a big production about how their new corporate rallying cry for this year was 'Excellence'. They showed videos and even had that delightful little rap-rock "HTFU" thing proclaiming their solidarity as a company and the quality of their work.
Does someone who does not comprehend basic aspects of capital warfare - or even ewar mechanics - being in charge of the capital dev portfolio represent CCP's 'Excellence'?
As much as I'd like to simply post lil dude and talk about how wonderful - or shall I say 'excellent' CCP Abathurs changes were - how delightful it was to see a transparent, two-way feedback process between devs and players on Sisi - this blog forces the question.
Where's the excellence?
He and you missed something.
The "excellence focus" was the "post Dominion" focus, when CCP starts to develop more products within the EVE universe, interconnected yet seperate commercial products, leaving less time and resources for EVE, and thus the switch to less large expansions with less extensive feature sets but with a higher focus on the quality of those feature sets.
This was the manager talk about "EVE Forever". EVE will continue, but since they will expand on product lines it will receive less attention and focus then thusfar. To compensate for that they will continue to deliver free expansions, just smaller ones, with less stuff, but small pieces of good shiny which will be introduced "perfect".
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Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:13:00 -
[613]
Originally by: William Caldon
Edited by: William Caldon on 20/11/2009 02:46:55
Edited by: William Caldon on 20/11/2009 02:45:40
"During the development of Dominion we have been looking at the whole of capital ship warfare and in particular the Motherships--reviewing their place on the battlefield and our goals for them as designers. We're unhappy with the role they currently occupy in practice and after much deliberation and testing we aren't happier with the direction we were taking them as anti-capital Supercarriers. In too short a time we've redesigned a ship class that doesn't have a unique enough role or serve a diverse enough purpose. These are massive ships that require amazing amounts resources to produce. They are part of the power equation of EVE's unique and important Alliance Warfare. As designers we need to do is take a few steps back, deliberate more (with your help), go through more testing (also with your help) and really perfect the Mothership redesign."
There. Underlined the important parts. That explains all your questions, just not in the way you want.
Wow english as a second language failure.
Do you see answers in there? Is it like one of those magic eye things where you have to stare at asteroids in empire long enough before you see it?
What I get from that is ...
"We're (read I am a drooling idiot)unhappy with motherships past, present and future"
<audience demands to know why>
*shrugs and walks off the stage*
Go back to your mining in empire and let the big kids discuss this important aspect of our game.
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Sweet Slayer
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:14:00 -
[614]
Originally by: Sooshie
Many people have payed years on this game for specific accounts to run motherships on top of their other main accounts. They cannot take these characters, leave their ships and go off and play around in a recon ship or battleship. Now CCP is releasing a patch where faction ships are superior to motherships and titans can go up to motherships and go BOOM to them with their giant lasers.. And we are supposed to just stick around expect to pay our sub fees for 6 months while CCP pays this? No CCP should be offering mothership owners free subscriptions for the next 6 months or however long it takes for them to fix this since CCP is now making their accounts/ships totally useless in the in-game environment. That or refund refund peoples sub fees for their super capital characters entirely as well as the isk invested in the supercapitals themselves.
qft
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Minto Took
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:15:00 -
[615]
Originally by: Ralph42nd
Originally by: William Caldon
Edited by: William Caldon on 20/11/2009 02:46:55
Edited by: William Caldon on 20/11/2009 02:45:40
"During the development of Dominion we have been looking at the whole of capital ship warfare and in particular the Motherships--reviewing their place on the battlefield and our goals for them as designers. We're unhappy with the role they currently occupy in practice and after much deliberation and testing we aren't happier with the direction we were taking them as anti-capital Supercarriers. In too short a time we've redesigned a ship class that doesn't have a unique enough role or serve a diverse enough purpose. These are massive ships that require amazing amounts resources to produce. They are part of the power equation of EVE's unique and important Alliance Warfare. As designers we need to do is take a few steps back, deliberate more (with your help), go through more testing (also with your help) and really perfect the Mothership redesign."
There. Underlined the important parts. That explains all your questions, just not in the way you want.
Wow english as a second language failure.
Do you see answers in there? Is it like one of those magic eye things where you have to stare at asteroids in empire long enough before you see it?
What I get from that is ...
"We're (read I am a drooling idiot)unhappy with motherships past, present and future"
<audience demands to know why>
*shrugs and walks off the stage*
Go back to your mining in empire and let the big kids discuss this important aspect of our game.
If this board had rep, I'd +rep u.
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Ban CCP Nozh (and stucks) |
Sebastian Su
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:16:00 -
[616]
Originally by: Vanija
Originally by: iP0D
Players do not decide game design changes.
We decide with our pocket books, and the entire player base from nullsec is upset over these changes.
To which almost every MMO in history has responded, "Oh yeah? Prove it." See post 542.
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WrathOfOprah
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:17:00 -
[617]
Originally by: iP0D
He and you missed something.
The "excellence focus" was the "post Dominion" focus, when CCP starts to develop more products within the EVE universe, interconnected yet seperate commercial products, leaving less time and resources for EVE, and thus the switch to less large expansions with less extensive feature sets but with a higher focus on the quality of those feature sets.
So, they build a House of "Excellence" on a foundation of "Not Excellence". Makes perfect sense!
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KeratinBoy
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:18:00 -
[618]
Dear CCP,
First off, I am interested to find out whether or not this post gets deleted because someone deemed it unconstructive. Let's find out, shall we?
This expansion of yours is not going well, is it? I mean, things get cut, developers out of their official league and a united playerbase opposing the new shiny.
I am impressed the basic DENY, DENY, DENY is still in existence. Historically, book burning is not viewed as an impressive fiat. (Yes, I did, thanks for wondering.) Is this expansion roll out locked in? Do you absolutely have to do it? I mean, by my admittedly terrible understanding of this game, all the positives in Dominion have been culled and idiocies thrashed in to replace them, to take their place alongside all the other idiocies.
Bluntly, at this point, you have nothing positive to show for your expansion. Nothing to point to and proclaim, "WE FIXED THAT!" Are all your current developers tenured? Are your offices awash with golden handcuffs?
This expansion has been blighted by ideas that bear no resemblance to current or projected playability. I can only surmise that you want to be the laughingstock of MMOs. Truly, your ability to make the same mistakes over and over again leaves me astounded, astonished, bewildered and impressed. Even I'm not that dense and I have a whole pile of breathtaking stupid to call my own.
Ideally, you should delay the expansion while you sort out elbow from anus. Maybe that isn't possible, we all of us have restrictions. Good God though, you can certainly manage to swap out Nozh for someone with a basic understanding of capitals and above and the way they are used.
Take a quick look back at your eve history - has deny, deny, deny worked for you?
I can only hope that there are people in the company who already pointed out the flaws that we, the playerbase, are pointing out and being censored for. Feel free to censor or fire those employess as well, unless you are determined to add hypocrisy to censorship. This is an internet game, after all, it's not like this might spill over to other parts of the internet that you cannot censor.
Above all, LEARN. You keep seeming to learn and then you go and do something like this.
Honest question, would you, theoretical employee of CCP, put up with this treatment?
Explain why should we?
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Drago27
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:18:00 -
[619]
Edited by: Drago27 on 20/11/2009 03:18:41
Originally by: WrathOfOprah
So, they build a House of "Excellence" on a foundation of "Not Excellence". Makes perfect sense!
Now all they need to do is balance ship combat around a microtransactional collectible card game.
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:20:00 -
[620]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 20/11/2009 03:21:15
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item...
This is not a "hot topic". Hot topic implies a topic with two strong sides like, say, abortion. What you have here is more like the topic of pedophilia or mass genocide. You have almost everyone fervently against it, and then you have the few people that are very misguided/messed up in the head.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
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Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:21:00 -
[621]
Originally by: Drago27
Edited by: Drago27 on 20/11/2009 03:18:41
Originally by: WrathOfOprah
So, they build a House of "Excellence" on a foundation of "Not Excellence". Makes perfect sense!
Now all they need to do is balance ship combat around a microtransactional collectible card game.
It all makes sense now...
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Caladain Barton
Navy of Xoc
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:21:00 -
[622]
Originally by: The Mittani
I was having a chat with a goon director who shall remain nameless, and they pointed out to me an issue which I think we should consider in a sober light.
At fanfest, CCP made a big production about how their new corporate rallying cry for this year was 'Excellence'. They showed videos and even had that delightful little rap-rock "HTFU" thing proclaiming their solidarity as a company and the quality of their work.
Does someone who does not comprehend basic aspects of capital warfare - or even ewar mechanics - being in charge of the capital dev portfolio represent CCP's 'Excellence'?
As much as I'd like to simply post lil dude and talk about how wonderful - or shall I say 'excellent' CCP Abathurs changes were - how delightful it was to see a transparent, two-way feedback process between devs and players on Sisi - this blog forces the question.
Where's the excellence?
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Angel HUN
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:23:00 -
[623]
As horrible as it feels to say this...
Once again Mittens hits the nail on the head.
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Pelvis Rodman
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:23:00 -
[624]
Originally by: KeratinBoy
Dear CCP,
First off, I am interested to find out whether or not this post gets deleted because someone deemed it unconstructive. Let's find out, shall we?
This expansion of yours is not going well, is it? I mean, things get cut, developers out of their official league and a united playerbase opposing the new shiny.
I am impressed the basic DENY, DENY, DENY is still in existence. Historically, book burning is not viewed as an impressive fiat. (Yes, I did, thanks for wondering.) Is this expansion roll out locked in? Do you absolutely have to do it? I mean, by my admittedly terrible understanding of this game, all the positives in Dominion have been culled and idiocies thrashed in to replace them, to take their place alongside all the other idiocies.
Bluntly, at this point, you have nothing positive to show for your expansion. Nothing to point to and proclaim, "WE FIXED THAT!" Are all your current developers tenured? Are your offices awash with golden handcuffs?
This expansion has been blighted by ideas that bear no resemblance to current or projected playability. I can only surmise that you want to be the laughingstock of MMOs. Truly, your ability to make the same mistakes over and over again leaves me astounded, astonished, bewildered and impressed. Even I'm not that dense and I have a whole pile of breathtaking stupid to call my own.
Ideally, you should delay the expansion while you sort out elbow from anus. Maybe that isn't possible, we all of us have restrictions. Good God though, you can certainly manage to swap out Nozh for someone with a basic understanding of capitals and above and the way they are used.
Take a quick look back at your eve history - has deny, deny, deny worked for you?
I can only hope that there are people in the company who already pointed out the flaws that we, the playerbase, are pointing out and being censored for. Feel free to censor or fire those employess as well, unless you are determined to add hypocrisy to censorship. This is an internet game, after all, it's not like this might spill over to other parts of the internet that you cannot censor.
Above all, LEARN. You keep seeming to learn and then you go and do something like this.
Honest question, would you, theoretical employee of CCP, put up with this treatment?
Explain why should we?
This right here folks, is a post.
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iP0D
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:23:00 -
[625]
Originally by: WrathOfOprah
Originally by: iP0D
He and you missed something.
The "excellence focus" was the "post Dominion" focus, when CCP starts to develop more products within the EVE universe, interconnected yet seperate commercial products, leaving less time and resources for EVE, and thus the switch to less large expansions with less extensive feature sets but with a higher focus on the quality of those feature sets.
So, they build a House of "Excellence" on a foundation of "Not Excellence". Makes perfect sense!
No, you have to punch through the marketing and executive talk.
They will maintain EVE, deliver expansions, but those will be smaller but better (although just going by features of Dominion that truly survive I wonder how small yet shiny such new expansions will have to be).
Excellence has nothing to do with the expansion, but all with the marketing. Call it painting the house shiny, but it's just an appartment so it is easier and quicker to paint.
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Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:24:00 -
[626]
Originally by: Caladain Barton
..words..
Hey, tell that guy in WI that just bought my capital pilot yesterday that I'm really sorry, since capital characters are about to tank in price. I appreciate the money though. I'll put it to good use on T2 cruisers.
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Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:24:00 -
[627]
Originally by: Sebastian Su
To which almost every MMO in history has responded, "Oh yeah? Prove it." See post 542.
star wars galaxies
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RLeonis
OEG Academy
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:27:00 -
[628]
we need changes!!!!
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Obsidian Hawk
Free Galactic Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:27:00 -
[629]
What have we learned today?
The angry voice of the EvE community was heared and granted motherships are shelved for 3-12 months but, they are still a symbol of pride and elitism.
Of course now every mom pilot is going to run and hide from titans, unless there is another hp buff that we miss.
Personally I would rather have them shelved rather than being butchered.
I do have mixed feelings though about this decision, I am sad that we wont to see scarey moms of doom out on the field, but I am also glad nothing was taken away from pilots honor from this.
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Rhaven
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:28:00 -
[630]
just scrap Dominion or even Eve-Online. Every time ya'll have some oen that know what they are doing you change personal and make this game more like SWG or WOW. At least let some one how starts something finish it and have it implamented before you take him else where and scrap all the good changes he is amking and leave all the have thought through ones. CCP has been up untill this point found ways to make eve better to keep ppl comign intot he game and playing and enjoying the game. now it looks like it is goign to be another yr before they might as well shut down because of hte incompadence and idiocy of a NEW Dev.
With the lack of thought going into these changes and implimenting some and not others and makign things usless after tons of isk been put into them. Time, ISK and resources drive eve online. You make changes that make it not worth ppls time to build pilot nada use things in eve the eve econamy is goign to slow down to crash and what then? Blame the pilots caues they are not flying ships ect.
You have taken ships that were powerfull and nurfed them to useless chunks a ton of timesa nd I think ppl would have figured by now ya'll would have learned something but apaently not.
P
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Caladain Barton
Navy of Xoc
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:28:00 -
[631]
Originally by: iP0D
Originally by: WrathOfOprah
Originally by: iP0D
He and you missed something.
The "excellence focus" was the "post Dominion" focus, when CCP starts to develop more products within the EVE universe, interconnected yet seperate commercial products, leaving less time and resources for EVE, and thus the switch to less large expansions with less extensive feature sets but with a higher focus on the quality of those feature sets.
So, they build a House of "Excellence" on a foundation of "Not Excellence". Makes perfect sense!
No, you have to punch through the marketing and executive talk.
They will maintain EVE, deliver expansions, but those will be smaller but better (although just going by features of Dominion that truly survive I wonder how small yet shiny such new expansions will have to be).
Excellence has nothing to do with the expansion, but all with the marketing. Call it painting the house shiny, but it's just an appartment so it is easier and quicker to paint.
I could care less about shiney. I care a million times more about gameplay. Drop us back a few pretty levels, and fix the multitude of bugs/errors/balancing issues. I remember reading 50% of devs are devoted to developing new content. Here's a crazy idea..put 100% of devs into fixing the current system WITHOUT ADDING A SINGLE NEW FEATURE. Make your internal code pretty, make it easy to expand and understand. While you're doing this, have your developers spend 1 hour a day (minimum) in a top 15 0.0 alliance as a line grunt. No dev powers on those toons, have your IA team watch them, and have them play the game we all do.
You want to know why Visual Studio became the IDE it is today? Microsoft had to use it on a day to day basis when they restructured their engineering department. It went from being a steaming pile to what it is today (half way good) in very short order. Play your own game if you're gonna develop for it, so you know what is actually going on.
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Fuujin
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:32:00 -
[632]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
What have we learned today?
The angry voice of the EvE community was heared and granted motherships are shelved for 3-12 months but, they are still a symbol of pride and elitism.
Of course now every mom pilot is going to run and hide from titans, unless there is another hp buff that we miss.
Personally I would rather have them shelved rather than being butchered.
I do have mixed feelings though about this decision, I am sad that we wont to see scarey moms of doom out on the field, but I am also glad nothing was taken away from pilots honor from this.
The initial part of your post is flawed, where you mentioed mom pilots even logging in. There is zero point to them even trying to now, since they'll still be fragile and useless ships in dominion that they are today, only now with a new predator--as if they needed even less motivation to log in.
Personally, I'd be surprised if those characters were even subbed after this.
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c0rn1
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:37:00 -
[633]
Edited by: c0rn1 on 20/11/2009 03:42:56
Quote:
The new version of the Citadel Torpedo follows the same trend as other unguided missiles. The explosion velocity is slightly higher than that of the Citadel Cruise Missiles (or 2250) which means target painters will have to be utilized in many situations to achieve full damage potential. They do considerably more damage than their missile counterparts, with reduced range and velocity.
22 pages almost and I still can't stop laughing about that logical argument according to Capital Ship Warfare.
This is like someone who harvested apples and is selling them as peaches at the market. Only the dumbest will fall for it.
Please, explain me please please please what did you think when you wrote up that dev blog? Did anyone revise it? If yes, blame him too.
For extra clarification:
Target Painter + sieged dread = no go
Target Painter + triaged carrier = no go
Target Painter + Mothership = no go
Target Painter + Titan = no go
Target painter + moving dread = less damage
Target Painter + moving Carrier = less damage
Mind explaining when Target Painters actually help me in Capital ship fights?
And ever brought into consideration when you have a ragnarok with the capital fleet which reduces the signature of capitals by 37.5%?
Please, explain!
Thank you in advance
cheers
c0rn1
P.S.: Free Abathur! He knows what he is doing...
P.S.S.: Are you probably missing to tell us the invention of "Nozh's Modified Target Painter" which can pain ships which are invul?
x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
Life's a waste of time ...
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Darius JOHNSON
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:38:00 -
[634]
Originally by: Caladain Barton
I could care less about shiney. I care a million times more about gameplay. Drop us back a few pretty levels, and fix the multitude of bugs/errors/balancing issues. I remember reading 50% of devs are devoted to developing new content. Here's a crazy idea..put 100% of devs into fixing the current system WITHOUT ADDING A SINGLE NEW FEATURE. Make your internal code pretty, make it easy to expand and understand. While you're doing this, have your developers spend 1 hour a day (minimum) in a top 15 0.0 alliance as a line grunt. No dev powers on those toons, have your IA team watch them, and have them play the game we all do.
You want to know why Visual Studio became the IDE it is today? Microsoft had to use it on a day to day basis when they restructured their engineering department. It went from being a steaming pile to what it is today (half way good) in very short order. Play your own game if you're gonna develop for it, so you know what is actually going on.
not to nitpick but I find it pretty questionable that any alliance... well at least in the top 5-10 could function properly and survive using only the tools that CCP provides and can monitor.
Originally by: Iroku Mata
Darius is time to STFU and make your GSM place free for someone who got the humildity to have the job you claim and failled!
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cpu939
Gallente
Volatile Nature
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:39:00 -
[635]
Originally by: Vanija
Originally by: Hratli Smirks
Serious post: Did nobody kind of look over this thing and say, "Hey, man, you can't targetpaint POS modules or sieged/triaged capitals." I mean it isn't like Nozh is running a one man show here, somebody had to bring this up at some point, right?
Unless this is really just a big troll like I was saying before.
Obviously you don't realize how ******ed CCP is....
i must have been a sleep here i was thinking we where in november not april. no its not april 1st. we're not having our leg pulled.
ok ccp i would like, no i think the word should be we would like to know the following
Q - why did you allow months of testing to go on and giving everyone all level 5 toons just to say nope not going to happen?
A - cos it was a PR stunt you could claim you worked with the player base to make these change to keep players happy
Q - take a ship that was useless and give if the buff it needed the once the player that fly it where happy change it back again
A - once again started off as a PR stunt that went wrong i bet there is a ton of ms in the build process atm
Q - what do you think to the player base ideas
A - there only good for money why wase time on there ideas, we know what we are doing and how target painters work
Q - why is there so little reply from you guys is it cos you dug a whole you can't get out of?
A - once again all the players are good for is money we don't care about them
Q - why did you post a dev blog after a week with so many mistakes
A - cos we could it not like the players are worth anything.
with the above in mind i am happy that the changes nozh made will not hit TQ this is twice he has changed the carriers and or motherships and failed due to the player base 1st time being with zulupark.
also a video for you nozh a video for you to watch Linkage yes it is old but i coud find more but i like this video, once you watch this video you will notice they are all with in about 10km of each other.
to ccp nozh why did you make the changes and not do a dev blog??
btw i don't think i'll get a reply i think he will just stay away from the forums cos he know that it was worng.
ok now time for what ms should be
1 - hp incess yes to counter the titan dd
2 - jump range incress good idea allows movement with fleet easyer
3 - 20 fighter/drones 15 fighter bombers would be ok
4 - none docking this give carriers a role
5 - none triage this is due to the ship now being a dps ship
i personal feel the best way forward if you are to keep the mother ships the same would be to talk yes telk to the pilots of these ships easy way is to do this would be an eve voice you could do it 1 group at a time maybe 30-40 at a time and see and publish what each group details to you. you could also add in the builders to this. i'm sure you have the tools to do this.
as to the other capitals changes how about this players vs devs, devs must agree no cheating inc no spamming faction/office mods all t2 and implants that can be got on tq are ok, and to fraps there side and publish it i am willing to put all standings a side and work with goons just to show you how capitals work. this can be on sisi if you like.
also you can't targetpaint POS modules or sieged/triaged capitals nor super capitals
i can't belive this once again i'm agreeing with goons. eve is ending
0101011 001101111 011011000 110000101110100 01101001011011000 1100101001000000 1001110011000010 11101000111010101 11001001100101
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Flaming Lemming
Caldari
Puppeteer Press
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:41:00 -
[636]
Originally by: The Mittani
I was having a chat with a goon director who shall remain nameless, and they pointed out to me an issue which I think we should consider in a sober light.
At fanfest, CCP made a big production about how their new corporate rallying cry for this year was 'Excellence'. They showed videos and even had that delightful little rap-rock "HTFU" thing proclaiming their solidarity as a company and the quality of their work.
Does someone who does not comprehend basic aspects of capital warfare - or even ewar mechanics - being in charge of the capital dev portfolio represent CCP's 'Excellence'?
As much as I'd like to simply post lil dude and talk about how wonderful - or shall I say 'excellent' CCP Abathurs changes were - how delightful it was to see a transparent, two-way feedback process between devs and players on Sisi - this blog forces the question.
Where's the excellence?
This sums things up nicely.
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Bos Tess69
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:43:00 -
[637]
Having spent my time reading the drivel in the latest dev blog, I sit back and stare vacantly at the screen for a minute.
I struggle to comprehend how someone with the knowledge of a chipmonk about caps and supercaps gets placed in charge. He has basically dropped his trousers and taken a great dirty dump all over the hard work and excellent ideas that were originally proposed and later balanced on the test server.
"My limited knowledge of cap fights, i see they dont happen at short range often" HELLO! Please go back to school and learn to read again you gigantic ****. Ask the alliance formerly known as BoB at what ranges they dropped! Ask Nync from RoL what range he hotdrops at! Ask any of the large cap flee alliances what range they attack other caps at and you will get pretty much the same answer: POINT BLANK!!! Any child could have done some simple research before opening his mouth and spewing out garbage about cap fights not happening like this.
Currently, motherships are abysmal piles of crap. You can kill one with a dozen BS quite easily. Even you admit they need a lot of work! Well, guess what, someone put some serious thought into it. At the bare minimum, you NEED re-add the HP buffs to TQ. The other changins including fighter bombers could wait until you develop some better ideas or a brain capable of some logical thought.
In fact, take this idiot away from caps and supercaps as he obviously has no idea what is going on. I am surprised he even plays this game. Implement the hard work abathur was paid for.
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Tertiacero
Caldari
Shut Up And Play
WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:44:00 -
[638]
From the Star Wars Galaxies wikipedia page:
Quote:
We've learned a thing or two with our experiences with the NGE and don't plan on repeating mistakes from the past and not listening to the players.
ùJohn Smedley, president of Sony Online Entertainment
Subscriber numbers were originally expected to exceed 1,000,000. In August 2005, SOE reported that they had sold 1,000,000 boxed copies of the game. In early 2006, unconfirmed reports showed that only 10,363 subscribers were playing on a particular Friday night, but Smedley denied that subscriptions had fallen this low.
With all the focus you placed on the number of players online during AT7, shouldn't this quote alone send warning bells off in every one of your heads?
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davet517
Raata Invicti
Undivided
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:44:00 -
[639]
Put the original changes to MS through. If they are obviously OP they can always be nerfed back.
Stop gimping all classes of missles. If anything, capital torps should have the highest theoretical DPS potential of any cap weapons system to compensate for the fact that their practical DPS potential will almost always be less due to flight time.
My constructive feedback is that you guys do not handle non-constructive feedback well. You announce changes, and a very vocal 5% of high profile players starts hurling insults at you and this is what we get.
When taking feedback from "the community" you have to understand that what you're going to get isn't going to be motivated wholly, or even primarily, by what's good for the game. It's going to be motivated primarily by people wanting to protect their own investments of time.
Apply sound game design principals, consider feedback that is well reasoned, but ignore the rest, which just amounts to so much emoting and whining. Then, after you have released your changes, watch their actual effects on the game and adjust as necessary.
----------------
We're recruiting quality players. Check us out. |
Aadi Grox
TASTY SHRIMP
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:46:00 -
[640]
Originally by: Mittani
I was having a chat with a goon director who shall remain nameless, and they pointed out to me an issue which I think we should consider in a sober light.
At fanfest, CCP made a big production about how their new corporate rallying cry for this year was 'Excellence'. They showed videos and even had that delightful little rap-rock "HTFU" thing proclaiming their solidarity as a company and the quality of their work.
Does someone who does not comprehend basic aspects of capital warfare - or even ewar mechanics - being in charge of the capital dev portfolio represent CCP's 'Excellence'?
As much as I'd like to simply post lil dude and talk about how wonderful - or shall I say 'excellent' CCP Abathurs changes were - how delightful it was to see a transparent, two-way feedback process between devs and players on Sisi - this blog forces the question.
Where's the excellence?
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DeeDi
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:47:00 -
[641]
Quote:
This means NO CHANGES WILL BE MADE TO MOTHERSHIPS IN DOMINION. Since they are part of the original rebalancing effort, the DEPLOYMENT OF FIGHTER BOMBERS WILL ALSO BE POSTPONED.
So all that bought/built a mothership got screwed in hopes of the nice boost moms where geting pre-Nozh??? great thx for everything CCP Nozh 
BRING BACK CCP ABATHUR !!!
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Aethrwolf
Caldari
Podrratu
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:47:00 -
[642]
You know, since embarrassing myself in these forums not too long ago, I've tried not to have any appearance of flaming anyone, but I just dont know how to respond to this without doing so. CCP, you have a dev who apparently knows next to NOTHING about his current task. Said dev also appears to be a blatant empire builder in light of completely ignoring any work that was done before he was assigned to his current task. His actions recently also appear to be either blatant trolling of your customer base or a complete disregard for their feedback/ideas. I gotta ask.. is he from the southern USA? as in "HEY, Y'all. Lookie wut I kin do!"?
Really now.. you're going to create ahuge IMBA situation among the ships that deal with/require sov the most just as you change sov??? W T F ?
Heres hoping he has NOTHING to do with planetary interaction when you start on it. (the expansion, I am personally looking forward to the most)
Absolutely everything is subjective. |
Rhaven
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:47:00 -
[643]
hmm looking back seems no t like NOZH's first time with a carrier dev blog...
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=514
back from 10-23-07 .. after that he seemed to show up for strategic cruisers, Jump Freighters and the speed "rebalancing"
- Capital Ships In Dominion 2009.11.19 22:11:10
- Strategic Cruisers: A New Breed 2009.02.12 15:50:59
- Speed Rebalanced 2008.07.25 10:44:17
- Jump Freighters in Trinity 1.1 2008.02.18 08:15:22
- Carriers, the Swiss Army Knife of EVE??? 2007.10.23 19:49:58
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:53:00 -
[644]
You now have over 20 pages of near-unanimous agreement that your balance efforts are a terrible idea, and that your non-answers are not acceptable. The solution is very very simple:
Admit your mistakes and DELAY DOMINION. Do not let stubborn pride force you to rush out an obviously unfinished expansion just to meet an arbitrary deadline.
Once you have removed the deadline, put Nozh to work on something less important (like level 1 courier missions), and listen to your players. Abathur's changes were 95% complete, with a little extra time before patch day, they could easily be finished and make Dominion the awesome patch it is supposed to be.
-----------
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
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Tyrrhena Maxus
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:57:00 -
[645]
ugh seriously this guy knows nothing about capitals.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:59:00 -
[646]
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 20/11/2009 03:59:28
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Admit your mistakes and DELAY DOMINION. Do not let stubborn pride force you to rush out an obviously unfinished expansion just to meet an arbitrary deadline.
Lmao. Most people (apart from <1% of the player base that are stomping their feet right now) are actually looking forward to the expansion.
You should have been happy with just a huge boost (which even the last incarnation of changes was), thats what happens when people get greedy, they end up with nothing...
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Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:01:00 -
[647]
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 20/11/2009 03:59:28
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Admit your mistakes and DELAY DOMINION. Do not let stubborn pride force you to rush out an obviously unfinished expansion just to meet an arbitrary deadline.
Lmao. Most people (apart from <1% of the player base that are stomping their feet right now) are actually looking forward to the expansion.
You should have been happy with just a huge boost (which even the last incarnation of changes was), thats what happens when people get greedy, they end up with nothing...
What? Are you ******ed? We were perfectly happy with the first set of changes, they were universally lauded as awesome. It was CCP Nozh who decided they would never do, and had to introduce the last set of changes (10 fighters, half the price, etc) that set everyone off, because they were terrible. No one got greedy, we had the changes we tested and gave feedback on pulled out from under us like the proverbial rug. Get your facts straight before you post next time.
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Telender
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:03:00 -
[648]
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 20/11/2009 03:59:28
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Admit your mistakes and DELAY DOMINION. Do not let stubborn pride force you to rush out an obviously unfinished expansion just to meet an arbitrary deadline.
Lmao. Most people (apart from <1% of the player base that are ACTUALLY AFFECTED BY THESE CHANGES) are actually looking forward to the expansion.
Edited your post for accuracy.
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Maghnus
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:04:00 -
[649]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
You now have over 20 pages of near-unanimous agreement that your balance efforts are a terrible idea, and that your non-answers are not acceptable. The solution is very very simple:
Admit your mistakes and DELAY DOMINION. Do not let stubborn pride force you to rush out an obviously unfinished expansion just to meet an arbitrary deadline.
Once you have removed the deadline, put Nozh to work on something less important (like level 1 courier missions), and listen to your players. Abathur's changes were 95% complete, with a little extra time before patch day, they could easily be finished and make Dominion the awesome patch it is supposed to be.
This. Pretty much this. Don't push crap out the door. Finish the patch. Spend another month or three playtesting it if necessary. Get the community feedback. Make capitals fun to play if they are indeed the "new BS" of the game.
I also like the idea of refunding the build cost isk to all supercapital owners and putting the modules in the pilot's nearest hanger and having eve move forward without titans or motherships at all.
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Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:04:00 -
[650]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Admit your mistakes and DELAY DOMINION. Do not let stubborn pride force you to rush out an obviously unfinished expansion just to meet an arbitrary deadline.
^this
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Chicken Breasts
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:05:00 -
[651]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Admit your mistakes and DELAY DOMINION. Do not let stubborn pride force you to rush out an obviously unfinished expansion just to meet an arbitrary deadline.
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Star Bright
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:10:00 -
[652]
Originally by: CCP Fallout
... CCP Nozh's newest dev blog.
I am in awe. This guy is basically undoing all the good changes to game balance made over the years and suggesting a couple more to really screw things up.
"Projectiles should suck really badly and have absolutely no role to play in DPS because you guys don't use cap"
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Telender
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:10:00 -
[653]
Originally by: Darth Sith
Seriously, this is the exact reason I am pursuing the CSM as there has to be more input from council members who are willing to stand up to CCP at meetings and with my 4 years of 0.0 experience, I can say something a little more intelligent then "you can't use target painters on capitals"
Darth
Vote for me on CSM - Voting link
My CSM Homepage - Darth for CSM
Yes this way you could have your input ignored both on the internet AND in Iceland.
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Elsa Nietzsche
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:12:00 -
[654]
So I hit reply on page 21 but a previous post said this was page 22.
As a fellow software developer I get to see how management is more interested in 'get in done right now' over 'get it done right'
unfortunately, management has this crazy idea that they can get you to build the pyramids of Egypt with McDonald's salaries.
when the original post came out for domfail, i stated that CCP is promising a lot that they can't deliver.
so what do we have here? an expansion that seems to be little more than a waste of time of all your resources. devs scrambling to get something out with their name on it so they can look like they've been busy, and mods trying to cover the outrage of the community to protect the devs who didn't have balls enough to say this is ****.
news flash, quality > quantity
put a little ♥ into your work and we love you for it. rush crap out the door and you can ignore it indefinitely (blackopswut?) we're the ones who have do deal with it
you guys had/have a great plan. we are/were all excited about it. but if you don't man up and admit your mistakes and resolve to rework this expansion to the level of quality it needs to be before it comes to TQ, you'll only have yourselves to blame for however this pans out.
tl;dr good luck on the next 6 years, hell, good luck on the next 6 months
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Zeoliter
Reikoku
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:15:00 -
[655]
I don't want to see Dominion shelved. It still has some important changes:
DD Removal
MoonGold Balancing
Sov changes removing Cyno Jammer spamming
I'm a mothership pilot and have been in one for 18 months. Never really used it in battle (few skirmishes under sov 3 and some lol drops in Syndicate). To be honest I don't mind the new pricing on moms if moms actually had a place on the battlefield. I'd love to pew pew with the ship, would take off the pimp fit and sell it and have enough isk to buy 3 more.
But looks like my Wyvern will continue to be used as a removal van as I move from region to region. Move a bunch of BS and 50k in mods from system to system, unload, set long skill train and log off for a month. It's the best $15/mo that I ever spend. I get to say I'm a mothership pilot and insert the word "Wyvern" whenever I can when chatting with interweb spaceship friends.
Thank you CCP for ensuring my mom stays permanently logged off so I can boast about how awesome I am without ever having to risk the ship in PeeVeePee.
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Pyriine Maurete
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:15:00 -
[656]
Originally by: Rhaven
hmm looking back seems no t like NOZH's first time with a carrier dev blog...
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=514
back from 10-23-07 .. after that he seemed to show up for strategic cruisers, Jump Freighters and the speed "rebalancing"
- Capital Ships In Dominion 2009.11.19 22:11:10
- Strategic Cruisers: A New Breed 2009.02.12 15:50:59
- Speed Rebalanced 2008.07.25 10:44:17
- Jump Freighters in Trinity 1.1 2008.02.18 08:15:22
- Carriers, the Swiss Army Knife of EVE??? 2007.10.23 19:49:58
It is pretty obvious by when this nozh puts out blogs that it is a parachute dev name of one of the main devs who is too much of a gutless ***** to sign his name to something when he knows it is either flat out idiotic and based on an utter lack of game knowledge, ill-considered, or wildly unpopular.
CCP you are pathtic cowards and money grubbing filth. |
Major Hunt
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:20:00 -
[657]
Very weak.
Although I agree that they needed alot more work on the supercarriers. Allowing these to dock with such massive hitpoint buffers and get "free repairs" and then undock and keep on repping was game breaking to say the least. Being able to go toe to toe with a titan and win was hilarious (old 20 bomber version)
However holding back supercarriers, and then saying "The Titans primary value should be as a fleet's logistical backbone. Although this vision has not been fully realized, it continues to be the goal." is laughable
You stuffed up with area effect DD. You stuffed up with Titans in the beginning. Now they have been reduced to pos hugging paperwieghts. Making them have the DPS of 1 dread + superweapon.... you have admitted the supercarrier needs more work, well so does the Titan. Infact you admitted the Titan needs work to in the blog.
So seriously, FIX titans properly. dont just do a half arsed job on them and say you will get around to it another time. We have been waiting 3 years for you to fix it the first time, I would hate to think it will be another 3 years before you get around to it again...
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Hatsumi Kobayashi
Point Blank.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:23:00 -
[658]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Admit your mistakes and DELAY DOMINION. Do not let stubborn pride force you to rush out an obviously unfinished expansion just to meet an arbitrary deadline.
This.
At this point in time Dominion is not an expansion, it is making EVE regress.
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Anile8er
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
Distant Drums
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:30:00 -
[659]
How can you not justify making a change to Motherships when you are making changes to Titan and Dreads?
Sieged dreads will be tracking better with higher damage weapons used at longer range i.e. hitting motherships better.
Two titans will be able to instapop a 25 billion isk mothership (Nyx with X-type hardners, A-type EANM, HG slave set and T2 trimarks.)
How is this acceptable? There will be little desire to use what is the end game for many of your longer term customers (players who have 3-4 accounts and have been ingame for 3+ years).
Please address this...
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Joe Goon
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:31:00 -
[660]
Dear CCP,
You'd probably have a lot more constructive posts if some of you guys would actually reply in this thread and move the discussion forward. It'd probably take less time than deleting the "unconstructive" ones. This is called a "dialog" and requires more than one party. If you don't actually want to discuss what you post in your blogs, why do you even bother opening threads about them?
At the very least a post from Nozh (OK, a new blog would be better because it really would be like marching him out into a firing squad right now) detailing exactly what he thought was wrong with Abathur's implementation and needed fixing in the first place. This would give us a basis to further the discussion.
Please take that on board. Now I'm going to wait an hour or so, and when I realise that I'm writing reasonably and calmly for an audience that doesn't exist, I'm going to come back to this thread and do the posting equivalent of taking a gigantic **** on the floor.
Thanks for reading, CCP.
I hope.
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Star Bright
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:34:00 -
[661]
Originally by: Treelox
To CCP's Upper Management,
I constructively suggest that you stop letting Nozh any where near game design, balance or frankly anything near your EVE MMO product. He has shown himself in this last couple weeks and with the proposed carrier nerf of 2007 to really have no clue at all about capital ships, their roles, their function and their prefered method of use in game.
Can we just go back to what CCP Abathur proposed at fanfest? I think the fact that so many different factions of the EVE political landscape agreed with those ideas, lends validity to those ideas. The fact that only nameless alts seem to welcome any of Nozh's dev blogs this month should mean something to you all sitting in the board room.
--
I hope that was constructive enough.
This man speaks truth
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Caladain Barton
Navy of Xoc
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:35:00 -
[662]
I'd be interested to know how many dev's actually play their own game in 0.0 and how many of them only run level 4 missions in officer fit golems.
CCP, you guys love graphs..can we have a graph showing this?
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Bilbo II
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:39:00 -
[663]
Edited by: Bilbo II on 20/11/2009 04:39:17
You got to admit,CCP figured out how to kkeep this from becoming a threadnaught. Just delete 9 posts out of erevy 10 and it's a meh 22 pages. WTG CCP
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:43:00 -
[664]
It is funny how dumb the Eve community has become, as it thinks that all those changes that were brought by CCP Nozh (carrier nerf, speed nerf, missile nerf and now supercarrier mess) were his ideas or done by him. He's just the bad messenger, who communicates stuff that was designed and done by others or at least by a team.
Actually I have to gree with a poster above on the assumption that CCP Nozh isn't a real person but a char that is used by many devs when they communicate bad news. No one wants to be the bad messenger, since bad messengers are usually the first one to receive the beating. In Middle Ages the bad messenger was usually decapitated, today they drag him through the mire on the forums. The reason for making such non-personal poster char is obvious, comments about how bad and evil that non-existent CCP Nozh guy is, are therefore sheepish and simple-minded.
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Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:44:00 -
[665]
I will be the first to say I'm not competent to judge the impact of the dread turret changes, but, thanks you so much CCP for not implementing the 6-8bil dockable insurable motherships.
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Telender
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:44:00 -
[666]
Edited by: Telender on 20/11/2009 04:45:35
I agree that I think CCP should show some good faith for once and admit that none of this is going according to plan. I hope those at the top realize that this only has partly to do with the substance of the changes and a whole lot to do with the manner in which the changes were proposed and how feedback to those changes was responded to.
Posting from the top of page 22 in the persistently shrinking thread.
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Tango Zulu
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:45:00 -
[667]
Originally by: Sebastian Su
To which almost every MMO in history has responded, "Oh yeah? Prove it." See post 542.
You sir, made the mistake of assuming post 542 would be post 542 for long. In the time it took me to find where your post went, you receded 7 posts.
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Elvid Tanz
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:45:00 -
[668]
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
Questioning the competence of someone empowered to make decisions that affect you isn't trolling, is it? At least some of the posts made good arguments that there is some level of detachment from in-game reality.
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Aveeva Serenity
Caldari
Igneus Auctorita
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:47:00 -
[669]
Quote:
Admit your mistakes and DELAY DOMINION. Do not let stubborn pride force you to rush out an obviously unfinished expansion just to meet an arbitrary deadline.
This. Or stop removing resources from eve for other projects.
I don't care about caps, but I do care about getting lied at as a paying customer.
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Caladain Barton
Navy of Xoc
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:48:00 -
[670]
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba
It is funny how dumb the Eve community has become, as it thinks that all those changes that were brought by CCP Nozh (carrier nerf, speed nerf, missile nerf and now supercarrier mess) were his ideas or done by him. He's just the bad messenger, who communicates stuff that was designed and done by others or at least by a team.
Actually I have to gree with a poster above on the assumption that CCP Nozh isn't a real person but a char that is used by many devs when they communicate bad news. No one wants to be the bad messenger, since bad messengers are usually the first one to receive the beating. In Middle Ages the bad messenger was usually decapitated, today they drag him through the mire on the forums. The reason for making such non-personal poster char is obvious, comments about how bad and evil that non-existent CCP Nozh guy is, are therefore sheepish and simple-minded.
It's very easy to avoid such a beating. Man up, come forward, speak plainly and simply, admit your mistakes, lay out a path on how you're moving forward, and interact with your followers. Will they be frustrated sometimes? Yes.
Will they be ****ed off and waving the pitchfork if you HTFU and include them in the loop? Nope.
If a Dev, or a series of Dev's came on, right now, and posted on their mains, and detailed what happened, why it happened, and what their reasoning was..and then stuck around and answered questions until they had to go (posting that they were heading home or some such so we don't assume you've gone silent for no reason)..all this forum flame would go *poof*. No more PR nightmare. It's just a matter of time before this hits digg, slashdot, and all the MMO websites.
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Zarlis
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:50:00 -
[671]
aha bombers gone but the art dept used them on the Dominion splash on the front page oops.
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Doc Imp
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:50:00 -
[672]
I can't believe all the crying, obviously you guys missed the good in this blog. Clearly target painters are being boosted to work on capitals. Don't worry, I can use t2 target painters we're saved!
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Mrs Trzzbk
Mothership Connection Inc.
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:53:00 -
[673]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
You now have over 20 pages of near-unanimous agreement that your balance efforts are a terrible idea, and that your non-answers are not acceptable. The solution is very very simple:
Admit your mistakes and DELAY DOMINION. Do not let stubborn pride force you to rush out an obviously unfinished expansion just to meet an arbitrary deadline.
Once you have removed the deadline, put Nozh to work on something less important (like level 1 courier missions), and listen to your players. Abathur's changes were 95% complete, with a little extra time before patch day, they could easily be finished and make Dominion the awesome patch it is supposed to be.
They announced the release date for Dominion literally before they even knew how the new Sov system was going to work. I wish I was kidding.
_________________________________________________________
it's good to have land
Trust me, I'm a Spacebert. |
Minmatar citizen4561451
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:56:00 -
[674]
Originally by: Aveeva Serenity
I don't care about caps, but I do care about getting lied at as a paying customer.
then stop paying, idiot
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno
Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:56:00 -
[675]
Good Call on the moms, abarthurs changes on the titans would be nice however im not greedy ;)
-
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Telender
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:58:00 -
[676]
http://ccp.vo.llnwd.net/o2/features/revelations2/vid-ivar.swf
Everyone say hello to young Nozh.
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Commander Tigre
Minmatar
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 04:59:00 -
[677]
I love how CCP is removing so many posts. I am almost more interested in why they feel the posts are bad and needed to be removed as opposed to addressing the questions that are legitimately posed in this thread.
Answer the questions that you want us to ask instead of wasting effort on removing posts that hurt your reputation.
"We Choose to listen to the lies we don't want to hear. The truth is, you're already dead." |
Greatest Lottery
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Posted - 2009.11.20 05:03:00 -
[678]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
You now have over 20 pages of near-unanimous agreement that your balance efforts are a terrible idea, and that your non-answers are not acceptable. The solution is very very simple:
Admit your mistakes and DELAY DOMINION. Do not let stubborn pride force you to rush out an obviously unfinished expansion just to meet an arbitrary deadline.
Once you have removed the deadline, put Nozh to work on something less important (like level 1 courier missions), and listen to your players. Abathur's changes were 95% complete, with a little extra time before patch day, they could easily be finished and make Dominion the awesome patch it is supposed to be.
And send Nozh over to lucasarts. I'm sure he could fix SWG.
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Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
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Posted - 2009.11.20 05:03:00 -
[679]
Originally by: Aveeva Serenity
Quote:
Admit your mistakes and DELAY DOMINION. Do not let stubborn pride force you to rush out an obviously unfinished expansion just to meet an arbitrary deadline.
This. Or stop removing resources from eve for other projects.
I don't care about caps, but I do care about getting lied at as a paying customer.
Oh stop crying people.
Except for the horrific series of mothership changes almost all the ideas from dominion have been good, and I doubt most people would be able to honestly argue that it sounds more bad for the game than good as-is. Not like the game will be permanently frozen in place afterward, either.
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Mrs Trzzbk
Mothership Connection Inc.
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 05:04:00 -
[680]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
Good Call on the moms, abarthurs changes on the titans would be nice however im not greedy ;)
Your Sig belies your post.
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it's good to have land
Trust me, I'm a Spacebert. |
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Kieselguhr Kid
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Posted - 2009.11.20 05:04:00 -
[681]
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba
It is funny how dumb the Eve community has become, as it thinks that all those changes that were brought by CCP Nozh (carrier nerf, speed nerf, missile nerf and now supercarrier mess) were his ideas or done by him. He's just the bad messenger, who communicates stuff that was designed and done by others or at least by a team.
Actually I have to gree with a poster above on the assumption that CCP Nozh isn't a real person but a char that is used by many devs when they communicate bad news. No one wants to be the bad messenger, since bad messengers are usually the first one to receive the beating. In Middle Ages the bad messenger was usually decapitated, today they drag him through the mire on the forums. The reason for making such non-personal poster char is obvious, comments about how bad and evil that non-existent CCP Nozh guy is, are therefore sheepish and simple-minded.
free CCP from the shackles of Nozh-posting
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Schmell
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Posted - 2009.11.20 05:04:00 -
[682]
Edited by: Schmell on 20/11/2009 05:04:33
Btw i like how are capital projectiles are clearly **** on all graphs
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Hixson
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 05:06:00 -
[683]
CCP Nozh is literally ******
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.20 05:07:00 -
[684]
sensible move this close in
Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
angeleyess
Gallente
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 05:15:00 -
[685]
So then there was that time I was like "hey a mothership might be cool, I'll try to get one of those"
And then there was that time when CCP was like 'hey some sweet changes for motherships" and i was like 'sweet!'
and then CCP was like LOL TROLLED.
Seriously though, it's a terrible plan to have potential changes, put them on SiSi, have a majority of the player base agree the changes are good and then say, wait no, we don't like these changes actually.
-Angeleyess-
CEI - RZR |
Azairen
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 05:20:00 -
[686]
1. the guy should be moved away from capital portfolio
2. he doesn't seem to know how target painters work
3. he doesn't know how cap fights work
4. abathur's supercapitals, the ones the players tested and approved should be the ones implemented
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Adam C
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 05:22:00 -
[687]
Edited by: Adam C on 20/11/2009 05:23:51
I admire CCP's determination to change the game up every year, more or less.
I'm 50/50 on the changes wholey on a personal level I don't much really care im just a player. I'll play the game regardless of its adaptations. I'm confident that a bad change to TQ would be amended after a while.
So basically right now CCP are saying they dont like capitals, they want to mess them up enough for players not to care about them, trouble is, is capital proliferation, not only that but ISK inflation.
Not only that but game mechanics, and development in a game that can not pass the community acceptance.
Can I mention handicapping the vision of capital warfare? How bad is it that I a player needs to tell CCP how they lost their vision for capital warfare in EVE ONLINE. That to me tells me that CCP suffered a negative development transition.
RISK VS REWARD CCP make capitals expensive. make them uber simple. nerf isk.
ive got the same stand point for aoe titans dds no need to remove it, make it insanely expensive!
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2009.11.20 05:23:00 -
[688]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Currently on Tranquility, XL Turrets are balanced around Dreadnoughts. The tracking speed, damage output and performance of XL Turrets in general are modified significantly by the siege module as well as ship bonuses. In order to allow the XL Turrets to be viable on other ship classes, aside from the Dreadnoughts, various tweaks were required.
Aren't most weapons balanced around ships of equal size? I mean Battleship vs Battleship, Cruiser vs Cruiser, etc, with the only exception being the Stealth Bomber? So why would you want to mess up the Dreadnought vs Dreadnought balance?
Originally by: CCP Nozh
The new values give each weapon type a unique advantage. The Ion Siege blaster has the highest amount of damage, while lacking in optimal and falloff. The Dual Giga Pulse Laser has a range advantage. While the 6x2500mm Repeating artillery might look poor, the fact that it doesn't consume any capacitor must be taken into consideration. With a single Gyrostabilizer it overtakes the Ion Siege blaster in damage and has excellent falloff.
You do realize that the Naglfar only has 2 turret slots? It also has 2 missile turrets. So basically your killing it as a ship class. Obviously you've never trained for caps or flown one.
These changes are bad :(.
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Due to the changes made to XL Turrets, Citadel Missiles/Torpedoes and projectile turrets, the Naglfar became an absolute monster, not in a good way. The weapon bonuses on the Naglfar had to be adjusted to keep the balance intact.
You do realize the Nag was one of the worst Dreads prior to this :(. So basically your now nerfing it to make sure its the worst. Minmatar ships already require the most training as we have a lot of split turret/launcher ships a mix of armor/shield tanking ships, need drones etc. Why don't we take in the training time necessary for flying a ship with all its fitted weapons into its balance equation. A ship that takes more skills to fly should be stronger than one that takes less.
Originally by: CCP Nozh
The new version of the Citadel Torpedo follows the same trend as other unguided missiles. The explosion velocity is slightly higher than that of the Citadel Cruise Missiles (or 2250) which means target painters will have to be utilized in many situations to achieve full damage potential. They do considerably more damage than their missile counterparts, with reduced range and velocity.
I suppose the qualifier many is meant to be a clever way to acknowledge that you know that you can't target paint ships immune to EW....like motherships, titans, and sieged ships....
Thus though I'm seeing above a big nerf to the Nag this is gonna be a huge nerf to the Phoenix. I suppose rather than trying to make the Dreadnoughts all work equally well it was rather decided to make them as poor a possible.
The good thing in this is the Titan changes in relation to the loss of the area of effect for a death ray. Should of been a death ray all along it was suggested the last time Titan's were balanced.
Motherships most folks other than the renaming of them were looking forward to Fighter Bombers and the general reworking of these ships. If you don't give them the hp buff then titans will one shot them..... Don't get so stuck on each different class must have a special purpose or its own niche, that rarely happens in navies, there are generally multiple classes that fit the same role especially during times of great war (WWI, WWII etc...don't look at modern navies). You unfairly limit your choices by doing so. It's perfectly fine for a ship just to be a bigger improved version of another ship....like the supercarrier just being a bigger carrier....
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. -Mitnal |
Trazis
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Posted - 2009.11.20 05:34:00 -
[689]
On a non troll post that I doubt ccp will answer I have 2 questions ccp still hasn't answered, or even addressed to my knowledge.
Will citadel cruise missiles require training of cruise missiles to 5 to use?
This would be a pretty bad move on ccp's part imo as the nag already is the most skill intensive, slapping another 30 day train time on there really doesn't seem fair. Now nag pilots have to train 60+ days more minimum then moros/rev pilots do...
I'm assuming, and going out on a limb here that ccp knows you can't target paint towers sieged dreads or supercaps. So assuming they have some sort of bonus to the phonix/nag where they can get a special bonus allowing them to tp the un-tp'able in the works that leads me to a question.
Seeing as the nag most of the time and the phonix all of the time are shield tankers..... where do they put the tp?
.... do you really want to drop the caldari DEDICATED SHIELD TANK SHIP to a 6 slot tank while giving the rev a 8 slot tank and 1/2-1/3 the train time on weapons... sure they have to drop a slot for a gank mod its still a 7 slot tank with out having to waste yet another slot to fill the dreaded em hole shields have.
Basicly the phonix has a 5 slot tank as it stands right now considering we will have to drop a place for an em hardener and drop a slot for a tp... is that really a good number of slots for a ship whose race entirely is based around shield tanks to have...
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.20 05:35:00 -
[690]
Originally by: Xing Fey
Is it jsut me, or do the moros/revalation get OutDPS'd by a rifter now? Meanwhile the phoenix and naglfar fail to hit anything that's not a MWDing titan...
If everything either has crap DPS or can't hit, that's balance right?
I had a lot of love for Nozh when he was listening to us in the projectile balance thread, but I've just been seeing massive swings in hyper-correction lately. This sounds bad, bad, bad.
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Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 05:37:00 -
[691]
Originally by: Trazis
Will citadel cruise missiles require training of cruise missiles to 5 to use?
This would be a pretty bad move on ccp's part imo as the nag already is the most skill intensive, slapping another 30 day train time on there really doesn't seem fair. Now nag pilots have to train 60+ days more minimum then moros/rev pilots do...
I'm assuming, and going out on a limb here that ccp knows you can't target paint towers sieged dreads or supercaps. So assuming they have some sort of bonus to the phonix/nag where they can get a special bonus allowing them to tp the un-tp'able in the works that leads me to a question.
theyve said that yes, you will need cruise missile five for citadel cruise missile launchers. now naglfar pilots have to train three skills to be the worst dread
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Trazis
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Posted - 2009.11.20 05:42:00 -
[692]
Originally by: Vadinho
Originally by: Trazis
Will citadel cruise missiles require training of cruise missiles to 5 to use?
This would be a pretty bad move on ccp's part imo as the nag already is the most skill intensive, slapping another 30 day train time on there really doesn't seem fair. Now nag pilots have to train 60+ days more minimum then moros/rev pilots do...
I'm assuming, and going out on a limb here that ccp knows you can't target paint towers sieged dreads or supercaps. So assuming they have some sort of bonus to the phonix/nag where they can get a special bonus allowing them to tp the un-tp'able in the works that leads me to a question.
theyve said that yes, you will need cruise missile five for citadel cruise missile launchers. now naglfar pilots have to train three skills to be the worst dread
*halts training on minmatar bs 5... looks at phonix and the all lvl 5 shield skills he already has...... starts training amar bs 5
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Severion Atarkos
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Posted - 2009.11.20 05:42:00 -
[693]
1. Nozh should be moved away from capital portfolio
2. Nozh doesn't seem to know how target painters work
3. Nozh doesn't know how cap fights work
4. abathur's supercapitals, the ones the players tested and approved should be the ones implemented
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Trazis
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Posted - 2009.11.20 05:49:00 -
[694]
You nerfed the damage mod on the nag =_=
So after that 60+ 30$ training time... you nerf their dps..... why? If you want people to pay you 45$ in trainng time just for the weapons on this ship let alone the 15$ on bs 5 and 15$ on jump drive skills and 30$ for decent support skills in gunner & missile..... you ask me to pay 105$ and sink 7 months dedicated training into flying a ship.... and you nerf it... without even an announcement thats up for discussion....
You give us a buff to our guns and ammo and in return make us train a bit more ok.... but then you stab us in the back with the nerf bat....
you coy little ***** ccp
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NickSuccorso
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 05:49:00 -
[695]
Right now, I'm training Citadel Torpedos 4, and after that, Minmatar Dread 4 before finishing up with Cruise Missiles 5 for those fancy new capital missiles. Once that's done, I'm gonna train up Caldari BS 5 so I can also plug in the Caldari Dreadnought skill. My next neural remap is somewhere next summer, after I am supposed to finish Nidhoggur training. Man, I wish I was one of those Mothership pilots/speculators that got ****ed around on this. That looked like such a happy problem, comparatively.
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Facepalm
Amarr
Gladiators of Rage
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 05:51:00 -
[696]
This expansion is garbage. Just delay it, shatcan all this garbage and start from scratch. Seriosly, I'd be ecstatic about a "patch" -- not expansion, just a single patch -- that nerfed DDs like they should've done years ago.
Besides that, what do we really have to look forward to? Everything else is all jacked up garbage that you know they'll end up reworking 10x over, all the while making us suffer through it in the mean time.
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Sooshie
Insidious Existence
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 05:52:00 -
[697]
WTT: NYX for Faction BS's.
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Ivan Shenovich
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Posted - 2009.11.20 06:04:00 -
[698]
If CCP Nozh is a trolling acct it's bloody well done (other than jerking around your income base)
If CCP Nozh is for real and something happened to CCP Abathur,
1. Nozh should be moved away from capital portfolio
1.a Nozh doesn't seem to know how target painters work
1.b Nozh doesn't know how cap fights work
2. Abathur's supercapitals, the ones the players tested and approved should be the ones implemented
3. Ignore 1, just move him away from EvE and anything related. Goons are terrible at EvE. He is terrible *for* EvE if the last month is any indication.
4. I thought T20 would be the pinnacle of my distaste for CCP (Does he still work there? If so does he still post? If so what name does he post under?
5. Free CCP Abathur
Still think it's a troll, though.
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Sannye
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Posted - 2009.11.20 06:04:00 -
[699]
Phoenix is utter crap after this "expansion"
Can we have a SP refund? All the skillpoints are compleatly wasted, as NO FC will EVER field an utter crap ship like that.
I would rather have 5 RR battleships on the field than 1 phoenix and the 4 TP frig (witch is needed after the insane EXP radius nerf for the phoenix to give any damage)
Of cause, you can give up the torps and use cruise - but for what end ? Their damage is so low, that a few battleships will have higher impact that fielding a dread.
Just remove the phoenix and citadel torps allready - maybe we could get some sort of refund of the skills if it was just removed.
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Dynaverse Corporation
Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.11.20 06:10:00 -
[700]
I'm sorry, but I have to make these points:
You MUST get a handle on the specific roles of Dread, Carrier, Super Carrier, and Titan... and how they counter balance each other.
In most players minds Super Carriers will always be Mother Ships, and Mother Ship conjures the mental image of a huge ship devoted to the transportation and support of an invasion fleet while still being well able to defend themselves with massive waves of fighters and a huge capacity to absorb damage. They should be devoted to the support of their own fleet, and be highly effective at killing enemy support.
The name Titan conjures the image of a lumbering monstrosity that slowly and majestically surveys the field of battle, shrugging off huge amounts of damage while unleashing tremendous firepower and the occasional "death ray". They should be devoted to the task of destroying enemy cap fleets, and be feared for their reputation of being nearly un-killable.
Titans should be the key to killing Mother ships.
Mother Ships should be the key to enabling fleets to kill Titans.
Their capabilities should reflect these roles.
Mother Ships should work best in a fleet environment and/or in combination with other Mother Ships.
Titans should not require nor even be able to receive benefit from Carriers/Mother Ships.
Either allow Target Painters to work on the targets suggested in this blog, or give Mother Ships a module that will have a similar effect on targets that conventional EW will not effect (or a special ability that allows them to use conventional EW modules on some of these targets).
DO NOT ignore Super Carriers in this expansion. If the original rework is deemed to cause problems as Super Carriers become more common in a few months then make a adjustments to their special abilities to tone things slightly. Whatever you do, do it fast.
Balance bandwidth issues to allow more fighters to be launched than fighter bombers. Do not balance this to the point where Super Carriers launch fewer fighters than Carriers do. People need to feel that Super Carriers can launch and control more fighters that Carriers can. Preferably tweak the stats on Fighter Bombers in preference to nerfing their numbers overly much.
Just my 2isk...
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If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
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Lucas Tigh
United Systems Navy
Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.20 06:10:00 -
[701]
Target Painters
***Do NOT Work***
on Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
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CCP, make me a winner.
I win. |
Ash Bringer
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Posted - 2009.11.20 06:14:00 -
[702]
Ok I'll tell the truth about motherships
Take out RR capabilities of Super carriers.
So;
1- Carriers still will be usefull
2- There wont be any EW resistant Super Spider Tanks that doesnt die.
3- Scarrier + Titan combo will not be the ultimate combo. Actually there wont be such a combo but just coincidence.
4- Dreads will be happy as they can still pawn carriers (triaged or not)
5- Scarriers will be happy. Still moving and pawning capitals and still have huge buffer to remote rep from carriers
6- Carriers will be happy, still usefull
7- Support will be happy. still can jam or kill carriers.
Magic rule take out the Remote reps from motherships.
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Kwa Zulu
Minmatar
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.20 06:16:00 -
[703]
If you want to revert changes please let that guy loose on the old cap jump effects
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Flaming Lemming
Caldari
Puppeteer Press
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Posted - 2009.11.20 06:21:00 -
[704]
Edited by: Flaming Lemming on 20/11/2009 06:21:49
Originally by: Alar Tangor
its quite interesting to watch this thread get shorter and shorter really.......
come on... some dev has to post already, this way the thread most likely would move from "enraged mob" to "sensible discussion" pretty fast
This seems fair..just someone SAY SOMETHING! Maybe you can at least take the edge off of the enraged mob. Just deleting posts will make things worse.
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Graalum
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 06:23:00 -
[705]
just delay dominion already, its the smart move.
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.20 06:27:00 -
[706]
.. guys, stop the personal insults, please.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2009.11.20 06:32:00 -
[707]
Originally by: Trazis
Originally by: Vadinho
Originally by: Trazis
Will citadel cruise missiles require training of cruise missiles to 5 to use?
This would be a pretty bad move on ccp's part imo as the nag already is the most skill intensive, slapping another 30 day train time on there really doesn't seem fair. Now nag pilots have to train 60+ days more minimum then moros/rev pilots do...
I'm assuming, and going out on a limb here that ccp knows you can't target paint towers sieged dreads or supercaps. So assuming they have some sort of bonus to the phonix/nag where they can get a special bonus allowing them to tp the un-tp'able in the works that leads me to a question.
theyve said that yes, you will need cruise missile five for citadel cruise missile launchers. now naglfar pilots have to train three skills to be the worst dread
*halts training on minmatar bs 5... looks at phonix and the all lvl 5 shield skills he already has...... starts training amar bs 5
Psst...Phoenix is Caldari not Amarr....
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. -Mitnal |
Kel Arkir
Biotronics Inc.
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.20 06:33:00 -
[708]
/me has the urge to personal insult Nozh tho
This must be some form of bad joke. Not implementing atleast the very basic upgrades like EHP boost and Jumprange boost means with Dominion the MS will be nerfed even further?
Announcement not even 2 weeks before Dominion?
I am lacking words to describe my anger 
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paik
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Posted - 2009.11.20 06:34:00 -
[709]
LOL I got forum banned for roleplaying in a video game forum.
CCP Dominion is terrible your dev Nozh is not very good and doesnt understand the game content he is changing.
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lolzrelgions
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Posted - 2009.11.20 06:35:00 -
[710]
With a rag in fleet you can literally signature tank sieged dreads.
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Jack Sparroxx
Honour Bound
Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.11.20 06:44:00 -
[711]
Edited by: Jack Sparroxx on 20/11/2009 06:46:30
Well the current MS have no place on the the cap battle field. thats not secret, and with the titan chnages actually going ahead, then MS sure as s.. never will be fielded. With other words, it will be even more broken now.
So since they arent giong to be buffed this time around, then the MS is more then ever reduced to a baseship. I liked the original idea on the MS changes. And so did just about every one else.
This will hopefully give ccp the time to make a tier 2 carrier and keep the MS in the game with out reducing it to a mere carrier. When thats said, I woudl really like to have some sort of explagnaition on why they didn't want to push the original buff ideas from seelene? I know you DEv guys dont have too, but with all the **** flying around on this topic, I think it would be a really good idea for you to tell us why.. At least from a PR perspective
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Cynthia Ysolde
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.20 06:50:00 -
[712]
Nozh, I have a few suggestions for ways to make dominion less terrible
here are some changes I would like to recommend.
Here are some of my ideas:
-Change Polycarbon Engine Housing and Nanofiber Internal Structure to affect mass instead of a split bonus to speed and agility.
-Make Warp Scramblers NOT turn off microwarpdrives.
-Double the effectiveness of webbers so a Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I or equal % webs decrease speed approximately 90%
-Make higher meta level microwarpdrives increase the speed boost that they give.
-Make Interdictors have higher base speed.
-Make Battleships have higher base speed.
-Reduce Frigate base speed.
-Increase the amount High-grade and Low-grade Snake Pirate implants affect speed so that a full hg set is around 40%
-Move CY-1 and MY-1 Implants out of slot 6 to slot 7 and slot 9.
-Change the Skirmish Warfare skill to affect speed instead of agility.
Sorted.
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MirrorGod
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.20 06:52:00 -
[713]
1. Nozh should be moved away from capital portfolio
2. Nozh doesn't seem to know how target painters work
3. Nozh doesn't know how cap fights work
4. abathur's supercapitals, the ones the players tested and approved should be the ones implemented
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Isil Rahsen
Gallente
Ferrum Superum
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Posted - 2009.11.20 06:53:00 -
[714]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
The new version of the Citadel Torpedo follows the same trend as other unguided missiles. The explosion velocity is slightly higher than that of the Citadel Cruise Missiles (or 2250) which means target painters will have to be utilized in many situations to achieve full damage potential. They do considerably more damage than their missile counterparts, with reduced range and velocity.
If ever there was clear evidence that Nozh should not be in charge of balancing a paper bag, this is it. Instead we get no changes for motherships, but still get changes for titans that will ensure we never see moms fielded when they can be blown away so easily. To top it off the Nag gets reverted to it's ****ty split weapon bonus form and becomes a ****ty dread again. Phoenix also gets skull ****ed. This is just hilariously bad decision making, based on an obviously flawed understanding of game mechanics. CCP Abathur did a much better job with the original changes. While they were not perfect they are leaps and bounds better than the abortion that dominion is becoming.
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EveFairy0
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Posted - 2009.11.20 06:55:00 -
[715]
- Mom improvements scrapped - lol (and I almost started saving isk for one, mabbe i'll buy some ibises with that)
- Naglfar getting double nerfed (new set of guns [cruises], losing proper turret bonuses) - lol (why not just make it 3-turret ship like everything else, jeez)
- lol, how do capless guns help with anything, you could just "balance" it with the ship having less overall capacitor
- "With a single Gyrostabilizer it overtakes.. " - lol, like when the moros doesn't use mag stabs, as in never (besides, what does it help when Nag is split weapons which leads to totally different problems with fitting damage mods)
Nice work on the turret balancing tho, i guess. But more importantly, what do we use capitals for in dominion, apart from hotdropping or trying to take the random moon with some decent goo in it? And, will the deathray work on towers?
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Trazis
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Posted - 2009.11.20 06:58:00 -
[716]
Originally by: Mecinia Lua
Originally by: Trazis
Originally by: Vadinho
Originally by: Trazis
Will citadel cruise missiles require training of cruise missiles to 5 to use?
This would be a pretty bad move on ccp's part imo as the nag already is the most skill intensive, slapping another 30 day train time on there really doesn't seem fair. Now nag pilots have to train 60+ days more minimum then moros/rev pilots do...
I'm assuming, and going out on a limb here that ccp knows you can't target paint towers sieged dreads or supercaps. So assuming they have some sort of bonus to the phonix/nag where they can get a special bonus allowing them to tp the un-tp'able in the works that leads me to a question.
theyve said that yes, you will need cruise missile five for citadel cruise missile launchers. now naglfar pilots have to train three skills to be the worst dread
*halts training on minmatar bs 5... looks at phonix and the all lvl 5 shield skills he already has...... starts training amar bs 5
Psst...Phoenix is Caldari not Amarr....
Psst even with all lvl 5 shield tank skills rev is better still
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p diddle
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Posted - 2009.11.20 06:59:00 -
[717]
Itt: what nazh would do
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
Nozh, I have a few suggestions for ways to make dominion less
-Change Polycarbon Engine Housing and Nanofiber Internal Structure to affect mass instead of a split bonus to speed and agility.
-Make Warp Scramblers NOT turn off microwarpdrives.
-Double the effectiveness of webbers so a Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I or equal % webs decrease speed approximately 90%
-Make higher meta level microwarpdrives increase the speed boost that they give.
-Make Interdictors have higher base speed.
-Make Battleships have higher base speed.
-Reduce Frigate base speed.
-Increase the amount High-grade and Low-grade Snake Pirate implants affect speed so that a full hg set is around 40%
Sorted.
Warp scramblers double as a web with a 90% speed penalty.
Regular webs are now high slots
Who uses interdictors? its all about HICs now days
Higher meta MWDs will give a higher speed boost at a 2x signature radius increase over t1 meta 0
Snake implants will now have a 4x drop rate through epic arcs
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VonRijSE
Phoenix Tribe
Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.11.20 07:00:00 -
[718]
and again amarr is favored.
ccp, you want to redo those dps graphs when you also take in reload times.
wonder who will have highest range AND highest dps as well than
and either way, the verry little boost moros has over revelation on current screens in no way justifies the huge gap in range difference
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Kai Lae
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.20 07:06:00 -
[719]
Read dev blog.
What the hell is this ****?
First reaction: This is a great troll. Checks date, not april 1, and says from CCP.
Must NOT be a troll then.
Second reaction. I'm being told as a nag pilot that nerfing the dread I fly to stats worse than it originally had when it was fixed - which was only the last major patch cycle, after quite literally years of complaining is great for the game. I'm also being told that the inferiority of autocannons can be fixed if I fit only 1 gyro, which means of course that I have 1 less effective slot on my ship than everyone else. I'm being told that close range capfights don't happen, despite the fact that of all the ones I've been on (I have 75+ cap kills) all but one of those happened at 50km or less, and in a K25 fight against solar fleet I could have hit the enemy capitals with a broadsword if I had brought one. Last but not least, I'm being told that painters are the future of cap warfare in eve, despite the fact that they don't generally work on capitals or POS related items, or the minor fact that most cap engagements occur at POSes and anything with a painter bonus would die instantly to POS guns.
I can draw only 2 logical conclusions from these facts above. Either the person who knows this knows less about capital warfare than a 4 day old n00b in eve-uni's public chat, or they do know, and assume that I'll simply believe any kind of bull they're telling me because they're telling me it.
Either scenario is deeply personally insulting, because it either means you think I'm a complete idiot, or that I should not expect a return on the time or money that I've put into this game. Considering that's 5 years of both, that's effectively insulting a customer to their face. I'll give you a tip from someone who actually works in customer service for a company that's considered to be very good at it: You don't insult your customers. Never. For some reason, it's generally bad for business.
As for the other changes, congratulations in making it seem that absolutely nothing you say can be believed from here on in. This is since you literally seem to have no idea what you're doing overall, and therefore since you have no clue or design document guiding your decision making process, you keep making radical changes with seemingly diametrically opposing goals. From now on no one will know if you come out with a major announced change if you actually mean it, or if you're just playing Lucy to Charlie Brown's attempt to kick the football again. In other words you've managed to destroy a large segment of trust your playerbase had in your company, effectively undermining the confidence that your customer base has that you can make correct decisions. I wonder what side effect that kind of thoughts might have.
I suggest you remove Nozh from anything having to do with capitals. Even if these ideas didn't even come from him and he's just your designated scapegoat for all of this, in general players now have 0 confidence in his work, and continued involvement will only make the situation worse. You can fix the current situation but you have a very short time to do so.
Time however, is wasting. I suggest you get working.
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paik
Minmatar
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.20 07:07:00 -
[720]
What was wrong with Abathur's blog? The community loved the changes.
________________________________________
LOLNOZHLOL |
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Jarnis McPieksu
Insidious Existence
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 07:08:00 -
[721]
:ccp:
/facepalm
So much fail in one single devblog.
Also, what is this; "Base tracking speed values of the XL Turrets will be decreased greatly to reflect their role as heavy weaponry."
Didn't we already explain once that yes, Dreads sometimes have to fire at battleships (out of siege). If you muck up XL turret tracking, Dreads will become lawn ornaments.
Battleships are already much more flexible (and cheaper to field - no jump fuel costs, much less ISK risked per DPS on the field) than Dreads. If you muck up with Dread tracking like this, nobody will field a Dread as battleships would eat them alive. In order to get a Dread vs. Dread fight, you need to have a scenario where fielding Dreads in the first place makes sense.
Right now, on TQ, it goes like this: "Large immobile targets -> drop a Dread fleet on them -> BS fleet can either try to take out a couple of individual ships while siege mode is active and possibly continue fighting once Dreads out of siege while taking considerable losses. To really respond, the enemy has to field their own capitals -> Dread fight"
Based on this, it sounds like the new plan is "Large immobile targets -> drop dread fleet on them -> BS fleet shows up speedtanking the lolXLguns at close range (where RR BS fleet excels) and takes the fleet apart (why drop your own dreads if BS do the job?) -> Dreads no longer fielded and we get to enjoy hour long BS pos/station/hub shoots"
Also, I'm not gonna even get started on the missile and split damage type stuff... it has already been said ten times over.
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Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2009.11.20 07:11:00 -
[722]
Edited by: Garia666 on 20/11/2009 07:15:07
Originally by: The Mittani
The playerbase tested the new motherships over several weeks on SiSi and found them good.
Some genius put you in charge of Abathur's good work, and now you've not only screwed up all the effort that went into testing those ships, now there's to be no improvement at all.
Where is your credibility on caps? Who are you? Have you fought in a supercapital, lost a supercapital on the field?
Is this the new CCP, or the old CCP rearing its terrible, incompetent head?
hehehe goons suck
www.garia.net |
Karimiri
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Posted - 2009.11.20 07:14:00 -
[723]
its a conspiracy for ppl to drop eve and go play next WoW expansion
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.11.20 07:14:00 -
[724]
CCP isn't known to cut features like this so late in the game. The only thing that comes close was Combat Simulators, which was never announced nor play-tested.
This isn't just a case of not being "able to commit". Ok, so it would be postponed to a subsequent patch(Dominion 1.1?), right?
CCP has been "proud" about it's SCRUM structure and how the individual teams commit to the task they work on. Given that the teams ought to be in their last sprint(1 Sprint = 2 weeks or so), only realizing that the planning(Nor the actual feature) worked out poorly this late in the game is simply inexcusable.
What happened to Abathur's mothership implementation? It had a huge sisi-testing session that yielded great feedback. Why was it killed?
It seems like anything Nozh touches is bound to fail. Look at T3 and how it was seemingly done during the very last couple of sprints. Aren't we still missing the last subsystems for that, by the way?
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Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2009.11.20 07:16:00 -
[725]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
CCP isn't known to cut features like this so late in the game. The only thing that comes close was Combat Simulators, which was never announced nor play-tested.
This isn't just a case of not being "able to commit". Ok, so it would be postponed to a subsequent patch(Dominion 1.1?), right?
CCP has been "proud" about it's SCRUM structure and how the individual teams commit to the task they work on. Given that the teams ought to be in their last sprint(1 Sprint = 2 weeks or so), only realizing that the planning(Nor the actual feature) worked out poorly this late in the game is simply inexcusable.
What happened to Abathur's mothership implementation? It had a huge sisi-testing session that yielded great feedback. Why was it killed?
It seems like anything Nozh touches is bound to fail. Look at T3 and how it was seemingly done during the very last couple of sprints. Aren't we still missing the last subsystems for that, by the way?
amen
www.garia.net |
WarDecEvading NPCCorpAlt
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Posted - 2009.11.20 07:20:00 -
[726]
There is a very simple reason that the previous Naglfar and citadel torpedo changes were hailed as an excellent update, because after that dreads with long range turrets were balanced extremely well. Learn from your success then and realize that this is a horrific mistake. Why are you taking something that was received so well and screwing with it?
This isn't a hard thing to balance, make short range turrets overlap long range turrets in performance at a decent range of distances and bam, the problem with them is fixed. If titans are too weak or too strong with the existing turret stats, then just modify the titan bonuses.
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Arra Lith
HUSARIA
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 07:20:00 -
[727]
So Phoenix and Naglfar are oficially useless ?
Quote:
A second capital missile weapon system is being introduced in Dominion, the Citadel Cruise Missile Launcher. The Citadel Cruise Missiles will not differ greatly from the Citadel Torpedoes that currently exist on Tranquility, offering the long-range choice for damage. We adjusted the Citadel Torpedoes to fill the role of a close range bombardment weapon better.
...
The explosion radius of Citadel Cruise Missiles will be set to 1500, which differs from the current 1000 explosion radius of Citadel Torpedoes on Tranquility
Of course balance was needed - missiles was worst damage dealing weapon system. But if something is too nerfed and you nerf it even more.. erm whats the logic in that ?
And again - why people need new skill to operate same weapon as now? New torpedos are completly useless and to be able to use Phoenix everyone need to train Cruise V - great...
Quote:
which means target painters will have to be utilized in many situations to achieve full damage potential
LOL really funny, I hope its joke ?
No other dread need to use tracking computer or anything to be usable. Phoenix and Naglfar without it can shoot only at titans and ms ???
Devs really want only Revelation and Moroses on field or something ???
With this changes I think Ill just sell my Phoenix (erm blow up, as propably noone will want to buy it) and start training for Moros (only gallente bs V to train... propably better choice than training Cruise V).
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Tea Spoon
Gallente
Baptism oF Fire
Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.11.20 07:21:00 -
[728]
What did I as a Minmatar Capital pilot do to deserve Unholy Rage II ? After having the worst dread for years, being forced to train two capital armor types and two capital weapon types the changes made by a developer with actual game knowledge balanced it just fine. A cursory inspection of the thousands of killmails publically available would show the Naglfar being average in dishing out and taking damage. Yes, it used no cap but that is hardly relevant given the mechanisms of siege modules, something CCP Nozh is blissfully unaware of.
Now, after a few months of having an actually decent ship this is all taken away and actually made worse by having another, FIFTH capital module type forced upon those poor unfortunate souls flying Naglfars.
The changes to supercaps are best left to the ones flying those, the universal disdain and outright shock at the incompetence displayed by CCP Nozh shows the lack of insight is universal across the board.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected]) |
Alar Tangor
Caldari
Decadence.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 07:21:00 -
[729]
and again: if goons, IT AND AAA all agree on one topic there is a strong chance that there is a problem somewhere that needs to be addressed...
Alar's Official Mod-proof Sig |
Kaidia DragonFly
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Posted - 2009.11.20 07:24:00 -
[730]
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
-Change Polycarbon Engine Housing and Nanofiber Internal Structure to affect mass instead of a split bonus to speed and agility.
-Make Warp Scramblers NOT turn off microwarpdrives.
-Double the effectiveness of webbers so a Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I or equal % webs decrease speed approximately 90%
-Make higher meta level microwarpdrives increase the speed boost that they give.
-Make Interdictors have higher base speed.
-Make Battleships have higher base speed.
-Reduce Frigate base speed.
-Increase the amount High-grade and Low-grade Snake Pirate implants affect speed so that a full hg set is around 40%
-Move CY-1 and MY-1 Implants out of slot 6 to slot 7 and slot 9.
-Change the Skirmish Warfare skill to affect speed instead of agility.
My my you want them to make Eve the fun game it was, one far far away time ?
Unacceptable !
The scale of small pvp warfare in Eve universe nowadays shows how much CCP choices in game design are always justified.
Also I would really like to quote Joe Pesci there and laugh so loud at CCP marketing techniques, because no feature announcement could be so bad just by itself.
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0oO0oOoOo0o
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Posted - 2009.11.20 07:30:00 -
[731]
Originally by: Arra Lith
So Phoenix and Naglfar are oficially useless ?
Quote:
A second capital missile weapon system is being introduced in Dominion, the Citadel Cruise Missile Launcher. The Citadel Cruise Missiles will not differ greatly from the Citadel Torpedoes that currently exist on Tranquility, offering the long-range choice for damage. We adjusted the Citadel Torpedoes to fill the role of a close range bombardment weapon better.
...
The explosion radius of Citadel Cruise Missiles will be set to 1500, which differs from the current 1000 explosion radius of Citadel Torpedoes on Tranquility
Of course balance was needed - missiles was worst damage dealing weapon system. But if something is too nerfed and you nerf it even more.. erm whats the logic in that ?
The logic in that is that the guy who wrote this blog actually assumes that 1500 explosion radius is better than 1000, and therefore thinks it's a buff.
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0oO0oOoOo0o
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Posted - 2009.11.20 07:36:00 -
[732]
Originally by: Isil Rahsen
Originally by: CCP Nozh
The new version of the Citadel Torpedo follows the same trend as other unguided missiles. The explosion velocity is slightly higher than that of the Citadel Cruise Missiles (or 2250) which means target painters will have to be utilized in many situations to achieve full damage potential. They do considerably more damage than their missile counterparts, with reduced range and velocity.
If ever there was clear evidence that Nozh should not be in charge of balancing a paper bag, this is it. Instead we get no changes for motherships, but still get changes for titans that will ensure we never see moms fielded when they can be blown away so easily. To top it off the Nag gets reverted to it's ****ty split weapon bonus form and becomes a ****ty dread again. Phoenix also gets skull ****ed. This is just hilariously bad decision making, based on an obviously flawed understanding of game mechanics. CCP Abathur did a much better job with the original changes. While they were not perfect they are leaps and bounds better than the abortion that dominion is becoming.
I for one appreciate an explosion velocity of 2250 on Citadel Cruise Missiles, you don't ?
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Ayumi Fargazer
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Posted - 2009.11.20 07:38:00 -
[733]
Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o
The logic in that is that the guy who wrote this blog actually assumes that 1500 explosion radius is better than 1000, and therefore thinks it's a buff.
uh.... 1500m explosion radius means you hit more targets at once then with 1000m ,right? ..... RIGHT? guys???
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Astal Atlar
Caldari
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 07:41:00 -
[734]
So actualy ccp did something cool with the dominion,and now they ruined it making ms and titans unusable,yeah good work ccp we will all play carier dreads,and in low sec empire with the upcoming dominion.
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Elaron
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.11.20 07:41:00 -
[735]
Originally by: Seriously Bored
I can see how with its current damage bonuses, the Nagfar would become a ridiculous beast.
However turning it back into a mandatory dual-weapon system ship, and throwing another level 5 skill on top of it (Cruise Missiles V) is an incredible nerf.
The Naglfar's bonuses should both remain turret based, but those bonuses should be balanced accordingly.
This, this, a thousand times this.
The Naglfar was only focused into a primarily turret damage dealer with missiles as supplemental DPS a few months ago, after much lobbying by the player base that went as far as involving the CSM. And now you're pushing back that focus? And crippling the dread with two bonuses that are only as effective as a single bonus that applies to all high slots, and requiring two weapon mods to get the same effect as one on the other dreadnoughts? We had this argument with Chronotis and he conceded.
Keep the nature of the bonuses turret based. Decrease their magnitude if balance demands it, but keep the nature.
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Tenzo
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.11.20 07:46:00 -
[736]
Maybe, just maybe, instead of employing someone with a phd in economics who could not produce correct market reports if his life depended on it you should hire someone with a phd in public relations to write announcements and "dev blogs" for you.
Your lead game designer sure has talent to cause PR disasters whenever he logs into his forum account, he might need someone who is equally clueless about the product he is working for, but has mastered hiding this behind perfect marketing speech.
Other than that ofc you could hire someone that actually has a clue about the product he is working for, but ever since the original crew left you showed incredible talent to always pick the wrong person for the job. We thought this time you picked the right person, only to learn that you completely throw the original design concept over in the last minute and then did not even have the guts to go through with it.
There¦s nothing worse than a game designer that throws over a complete design concept without any obvious reason (and without announcing it) AND THEN rowing back completely AGAIN after his customers up-rise. This only shows one thing; Your game designer is incompetent.
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.20 07:48:00 -
[737]
I think motherships should at least get half the planned HP boost.
You can always adjust that later.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Eniy Oh
Gallente
United Systems Navy
Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.20 07:52:00 -
[738]
Edited by: Eniy Oh on 20/11/2009 07:53:13
Quote:
Admit your mistakes and DELAY DOMINION. Do not let stubborn pride force you to rush out an obviously unfinished expansion just to meet an arbitrary deadline.
This. CCP, this is not spam. This is reinforcing a very valid point you should consider.
Edit: people should start carrying this in their signatures...
---
The one whose ship names don't pass the sanity test while the rest of him is rather sane |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.11.20 07:53:00 -
[739]
lol
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 07:56:00 -
[740]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 20/11/2009 07:58:38
Originally by: Tarron Sarek
I think motherships should at least get half the planned HP boost.
You can always adjust that later.
What they should do is come out and promise us they are going to go back to working on changes right after dominion hits, in a transparent fashion involving 2 way dialogue -not just nozh putting up vague posts/introducing bogus changes with no explanation- and have it ready proper for dominion 1.1. I would also like them to promise each CCP employee will punch Nozh in the gut at least once for us, but that might be asking too much.
Either that or straight up delay dominion so it comes out as something well done instead of a smelly ice turd.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
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Crimsonjade
Phantom Squad
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 07:59:00 -
[741]
The will be the first Positive post in this thread!
I Positively think someone at CCP should show someone else" dare i have to say who" This Dev Blog
have a nice day
FREE MONGO PECK CCP |
Qwert Y
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:02:00 -
[742]
What kind of ****** does ccp have in charge of capitals? Hey guys lets target paint ew immune ships:downs: (You can't since they are immune to it lolllllllllllllll)
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Serpents smile
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:04:00 -
[743]
Quote:
Let's break it down:
CCP Abathur and players: extensive testing and balancing on sisi with supercarriers and titans. Result: well-received changes, ships were finally good enough to be worth using for their price. All signs point to these changes going to TQ.
- one week passes -
CCP Nozh: I am changing pretty much everything and giving no shred of an explanation why.
Players: WTF.
CCP Nozh: okay i guess those changes were bad, I'll give them an additional fighter and let them dock.
Players: DOUBLEYEW TEE EFF
- threadnaught occurs -
CCP Nozh: Well clearly since those ideas weren't well received we won't be doing anything to motherships at all. Also, you can totally target paint ships that are immune to electronic warfare.
Players: WHAT NONSENSE IS THIS
Even as someone without a direct interest in the state of motherships, the way this has panned out is frankly appalling and makes me feel betrayed.
Most of all, though,
Originally by: CCP Nozh
As designers we need to do is take a few steps back, deliberate more (with your help), go through more testing (also with your help) and really perfect the Mothership redesign.
The deliberation and testing was already done. CCP Abathur did it. Please explain why they were undone.
Quoted for truth.
Also: dear CrowdControllProductions your best bet at Controlling *this* Crowd is reverse back to the changed made under the guided wings of the by now holy epic godlike 'CCP Abathur' and publicly hang this dev by his (fill in something painfull to be hung by) that goes on the forums by the name of 'Nohz'.
Because even I know that
Target Painters
***Do NOT Work***
on Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
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Zeveron
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:07:00 -
[744]
If this totaly broken and unneeded capital nerf goes through, I dont see any hope for you CCP.
Put the right persons on the right place and get your stuff done or just leave thing the way they are.
You turned a promising expantion into an totaly broken nerf rage......
________________________________________________
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Zaisig Murakk
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:08:00 -
[745]
CCP Nozh, the changes that were going to be implemented were great, they were tested and people like them. You never mentioned why these were being removed. Also you seem unable to follow your own line of argument. You went "titans were supposed to be logistical backbones" and then went on to say about how they would be slightly more effective than a sieged dread.
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Joe Goon
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:08:00 -
[746]
Edited by: Joe Goon on 20/11/2009 08:09:58
OK, I can handle when it's AAA, and Atlas, and IT even since I've been hating them so long it's getting hard to tell it from love, but ffs CCP I am now nodding in agreement while reading STAR FRACTION POSTS.
This cannot go on. Please fix this mess.
Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses
____/
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ |
Miraqu
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:10:00 -
[747]
Will at least the skill
"Guided Missile Precision" affect Citadel Cruise Missiles?
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Jethro Hawkins
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:10:00 -
[748]
So, I do not fly a cap ship nor am I a computer programmer/dev
But I was talking to a friend of mine that works in the IT field (Clearwire, wireless internet provider) and I told him that CCP was using the SCRUM release method.
He nodded his head and said, "Scrum is awesome because you get short little packets that you can just deploy. Unfortunately if things don't make it, you just shelve them for later. No deadlines are enforced so that company better have it right or they will fail hard."
Please get it right. I was going for an Amarr cap ships on my alt... all 253 days of training...
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:17:00 -
[749]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 20/11/2009 07:58:38
Originally by: Tarron Sarek
I think motherships should at least get half the planned HP boost.
You can always adjust that later.
What they should do is come out and promise us they are going to go back to working on changes right after dominion hits, in a transparent fashion involving 2 way dialogue -not just nozh putting up vague posts/introducing bogus changes with no explanation- and have it ready proper for dominion 1.1. I would also like them to promise each CCP employee will punch Nozh in the gut at least once for us, but that might be asking too much.
Either that or straight up delay dominion so it comes out as something well done instead of a smelly ice turd.
Was only meant as a transitional solution.
What you describe should of course follow after that.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
H Zebra
Zebra Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:19:00 -
[750]
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Please keep your replies on topic. Remember, posting something that is not constructive will be removed.
as you deleted my last post stating ccp are idiots, ill put it in a different way CCP nozh you are a tool. most of us were excited about getting a MOM after dom but now you have shafted us again with you compleat stupidity and lack of any game knowledge. reminds me of a time a gm told me an vexor was a frig. know nothings ruining a good game is just plain idiotic, so i conclude that you NOZH are an idiot and ccp are idiots for letting you do this.
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Geralden
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:19:00 -
[751]
I have the "joy" of beeing a phoenix pilot, but after this "expansion" im here no more.
You have a weaponplatform that is poor in performance, since everyone can fit a smartbomb and reduce the damage done by 50%
IF you are allso moving your ship, the damage is further reduced by at least 75%
Now, in the latest patch, you more than doubble the explotion radius, claming that targetpainter will help your damage.
Are CCP totally clueless????
You CANT TP supercarriers, titans or structures.
What ELSE can a phoenix target?
/me want to buy CCP a COMPETENT DEV and stick him in the capital ship section. Nozh needs to read his own devblog and understand that the thing he post is utter crap and nonsense. |
hatchette
Caldari
Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:25:00 -
[752]
My first thoughts? F*** y**!
I'm waiting for these motherships changes for sooooo long now.... And now again a big let down.
Where do you find these LOLdevs CCP?
Sorry if it sounds a bit rude, but this is a mayor disappointment.
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Random Womble
Minmatar
Emo Rangers
Electric Monkey Overlords
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:27:00 -
[753]
Having slept on it i did come to wonder if CCP wanted to try and get the phoenix to use TPs (even tho they would be useless on most of their normal targets) so that the new domination TP that is part of the angels epic arc potential loot actually would be bought by someone. Its unlikely but you never know with CCP.
Since they seem to have failed to realize otherwise that that module would be pretty much pointless since barely anyone uses TPs and generally when they do its not on ships that actually would be faction fit.
And yes this post does almost sound like a conspiracy theory
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Zi'Boo
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:28:00 -
[754]
So all turrets will do max of 78 DPS (maybe a bit over 100 with short range ammo), while Capital torps do over 1000 and Capital Cruises do over 600?
And with explosion velocity of 2250, you won't even need a TP to kill a ceptor
Looks like Nag and Phoenix will be awsome
Nozh if you decide to post some graphs or values, at least read what you're posting...
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Astal Atlar
Caldari
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:28:00 -
[755]
so why i should train for ms my alt,i will just leave it with dread and carier, they are both way cheaper and useful.
with latest ms changes ms go in stasis we will not see them in bs,return to the prevous changes will make them exciting again and people will fly them on the field.
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Jordan Musgrat
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:29:00 -
[756]
First, you must give MS pilots additional HP to be able to survive 2 titan DDs. If you don't, you will be forcing them to go inactive for however long it takes you to think up some new (?) changes.
Second, you need to know that this looks completely unprofessional. CCP has been selling this patch with things it's not going to implement, from treaties to mothership changes. You're giving us a very watered down expansion. Please stop this. Also I'd like to know why you think that motherships should not be anti-capital platforms. Should they be anti-subcapital platforms?
It seems to me that on one hand, you've been nerfing motherships since day 1 and trying to introduce a carrier nerf, but in this blog, you tell us that the changes we've liked the most, out of all, for motherships, aren't "diverse" enough. Srsly? What was wrong. with. the. previous. mothership. changes. You need to tell us.
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Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0... |
Zaiyo Modi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:30:00 -
[757]
Edited by: Zaiyo Modi on 20/11/2009 08:30:35
I stopped reading after the first sentence "Every ship needs its niche.".
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Mioelnir
Minmatar
Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:34:00 -
[758]
Ok, by now we are all familiar with the statement that the Naglfar with the old bonus would have become a monster, which lacks any sort of qualifier that would explain how or why.
Cue the mathmobile.
Since the skills and their effects are the same on TQ and Sisi, the following calculations are with the weapons base stats, i.e. without any skills. AC = Autocannon, AT = Artillery, TP = Torpedo, CR = Cruise.
TRANQUILITY, 88 damage -50% ammo, 1800 damage torpedo
6x2500mm AC: 40.16 DPS
4x3500mm AT: 29.98 DPS
Citadel TP: 37.5 DPS
SINGULARITY, 96 damage -50% ammo, 2000 damage torpedo, 1500 damage cruise
6x2500mm AC: 58.92 DPS (+46.7%)
4x3500mm AT: 32.71 DPS (+9.1% = ammo changes)
Citadel TP: 76.92 DPS (+105.12%)
Citadel CR: 34.09 DPS (new)
Now, lets have a base for comparison. Since the damage bonus of the siege module, slot amount, slot layout or the drone capability of the Naglfar does not change, we get the relative difference between different weapon and bonus sets just from applying the ship bonus to the different weapon systems.
The 2x Artillery/2x Citadel Torp setup is marked as (BASE), all further %-differences are relative to this DPS value (since it is the weapon configuration Naglfars primarily fly with).
Naglfar, TQ Bonus, +37.5% projectile damage, -37.5% projectile rof
2x AT + 2x TP: 206.912 DPS (BASE)
2x AC + 2x TP: 251.704 DPS (+21.64%)
Now that we have our baseline, let's plug in the new guns into the old ship and create ourselves a monster. <cue evil laughter>
Naglfar, TQ Bonus, Sisi Weapons
2x AT + 2x CR: 212.104 (+2.5%)
2x AC + 2x TP: 413.088 (+99.64%)
Ok, that was uneventful. The long range setup is only 2.5% better despite the +9.1% change to projectile ammo. But alas, the short range setup with Autocannons and Torpedoes does goes up from +21.64% to a whopping +99.64% over the TQ longrange setup.
But does that qualify for being a monster? Since it looks like the biggest weapon system change was to Torps, let's take a short excursion to the Phoenix.
Phoenix, +25% dmg (kinetic), -25% rof:
TQ, 3x TP: 187.5 DPS (PHOENIX_BASE)
Sisi, 3x CR: 170.45 DPS (-9.1%)
Sisi, 3x TP: 384.60 DPS (+105.12%)
So, +99.64% makes a monster, but +105.12% is fine and warrants no change. If at this point, you the reader, are as confused as I am, I feel better. But let's get back to the Naglfar.
Naglfar, Sisi Bonus, +25% projectile damage, -25% citadel rof
2x AT + 2x CR: 172.675 DPS (-16.54%)
2x AC + 2x TP: 352.42 DPS (+70.32%)
Ok, let's see. The DPS output of the shortrange version has been toned down a bit, ok. But, the Naglfar also loses -16.54% DPS in its sensible LR fitting, which is on average about a factor of 2 more than other dreads from what I could tell glancing at the DPS graphs embedded in the blog.
And, the Naglfar is back with its ******ed split weapon bonus. So it not only looses more base DPS than other dreads, it also has to fight against a reduced effectiveness of damage mods. Again.
Therefor, as a shining star of constructive criticism, I present you:
Naglfar, "Improved", +25% projectile damage, -25% projectile rof
2x AT + 2x CR: 177.213 DPS
2x AC + 2x TP: 350.240 DPS
As easy as pulling a rabbit out of a hat, we have:
- no split weapon bonus
- damage comparable to the proposed absurdity on Sisi
But, we still lack damage mod effectiveness compared to other dreads, since every damage mod boosts only a fraction of the Nagls DPS, instead of all of it.
So let us iterate on that again (since I know you Devs like iterating stuff):
Naglfar, "How It Should Be"-Edition
7.5% projectile damage per level (= +37.5% damage)
5% projectile rof per level (= -25% rof)
2x AT + 2x CR: 188.116 DPS
2x AC + 2x TP: 369.880 DPS
[CHARACTER LIMIT REACHED. Conclusion in next posting from me (probably 2 pages further)]
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Alhambra Rainwalker
Caldari
Rosa Alba
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:36:00 -
[759]
Quick and dirty mothership fix to keep them at least bit relevant with those new titans until you can actually realize the ideas with those fighter bombers and whatnot:
5 x HP
Double their damage bonus with fighters
And don¦t nerf Naglfar back into stoneage again, keep dual projectile bonus simply adjust them until "charts are properly aligned". Cap use or lack of it is almost complete non-issue in capital ships and can be safely considered flavor, not balancing issue.
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Dahlia Houghton
Blood Traders Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:38:00 -
[760]
Hahaha CCP is great at trolling.
God I hope they are trolling.
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Mioelnir
Minmatar
Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:39:00 -
[761]
Edited by: Mioelnir on 20/11/2009 08:40:24
CONCLUSION to the "How It Should Be" Naglfar from this posting
Btw, I loved the 5 minute delay. Oh, and pending a few deletions, the link may or may not point to the correct posting.
This Naglfar is 8.9% better than the current Sisi proposal in a LR setup, but still 9.05% below current TQ stats which is comparable to other dreads. Its higher LR DPS compared to, for example, the Phoenix, gets countered by the reduced effectiveness of damage mods.
The SR setup is 4.95% better than the current Sisi proposal, but still -3.82% below the Phoenix and -10.45% below the "monster". With Torps not hitting the broad side of a barn, and the reduced effectiveness of damage mods inherent to the weapon systems layout, this works out just fine.
There, Naglfar fixed. Thank you, you are welcome.
[Edit]Fixed the link. But it looks like its still on the same page.
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Myra2007
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:40:00 -
[762]
Please scrap the whole supercapital concept. It was a gamebreaking idea in the first place. You realized it (too late, too little though) but now you just won't make the right conclusions.
Either nerf them so that they're not much more than e-peen extensions for rich players (like moms now) or give them a decent role that doesn't involve capital combat.
Speaking of roles (which you mentioned twice in your blog) how about a mothership does what one would expect from a MOTHERship? And no by that I certainly do not mean fighter bombers...
In your changes you altered the name to supercarrier because you apparently realized that they are nowhere near the common idea of a ms. Now that you feel the scarrier has no role how about you go back to the roots and instead try to change moms so they do deserve their name?
Just my 2cents
(Also I agree with the sentiment that nozh does not exist at all. It would explain everything about his (at times) erratic behaviour. He's just a meatshield for when the **** hits the fan.)
--
Originally by: Professor Slocombe
I will only buy tickets if the prize is your stuff and you leave Eve. Forever. You irritating self obsessed cretin.
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Lira Reib
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:40:00 -
[763]
Originally by: Eniy Oh
Edited by: Eniy Oh on 20/11/2009 07:53:13
Quote:
Admit your mistakes and DELAY DOMINION. Do not let stubborn pride force you to rush out an obviously unfinished expansion just to meet an arbitrary deadline.
I'm going to go ahead and quote this. The other stuff is good as far as I know, but call the capital changes dominion 1.5 and take a few months to come up with something that doesn't cause instant threadnaughts.
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nilie
Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:41:00 -
[764]
can u make ms pilots dock in npc stations till u get a clue what u do with them?
im sick of sitting another 6 month in a ****ing pos and do ****all because u have no idea what u do!!
just waiting for the dev blog to read dominion will not launched.
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Der Lemming
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:45:00 -
[765]
How can your company afford this level of incompentency???
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DaiTengu
Gallente
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:46:00 -
[766]
Originally by: nilie
can u make ms pilots dock in npc stations till u get a clue what u do with them?
im sick of sitting another 6 month in a ****ing pos and do ****all because u have no idea what u do!!
just waiting for the dev blog to read dominion will not launched.
You know if you held 0.0 space you might actually be able to use it :smug:
however if Motherships aren't changed at all, there's no way I'm taking mine even close to the edges of a POS shield if there's even the slightest chance a hostile titan (or samhandwich) may be within jump range.
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IronGoldenEagle
The New Era
Huzzah Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:47:00 -
[767]
Poor nag. Goodbye MS pilots, we barely had gotten to find out who you were again. On the bright side, I now know why my Phoenix kept dying so quickly in siege, it was being target painted. Only way to explain why in those non-existent short range fights I was dying.
CCP- Completely Competent People
Fire Nozh, stop censoring, listen to your customers
John Smedley- "Because we didn't listen. I think we were a little too arrogant as a company. We thought we knew what was best as a company, and we should have listened more. That's really the biggest lesson we've learned as a company in the last eight years. Listening to our customers is everything."
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Anile8er
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
Distant Drums
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:49:00 -
[768]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 20/11/2009 01:03:43
Target Painters
***Do NOT Work***
on Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps
win
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Astal Atlar
Caldari
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:50:00 -
[769]
So we have no answer from ccp as always. But as we hoped dominion will bring fresh things to o.o It is doing the oposite.
No ms fun 2 dd killing ms is overkill,even with the 5-6 bil price of ms proposed, with the officer's mods ect it is still about 10-12 bil investment to get poped in 1 min yeah cool thing ccp.
Why should we stuck alts sitting in them on poses,and using them for pve asigning fighters ect. Fun why is almost 2 years training going to be worth nothing at all.
As for dreads thank god I fly revelation, phoenix is broken and naglfar gets kick in the teeth too.
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Muadd Dibb
Caldari
Calimae Logistics Foundation
Manifest Destiny.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:51:00 -
[770]
Im soo lost on what you are doing now CCP
You change it then change back
You change it then change back
You change it then change back
You change it then change back
You change it then change back
You change it then change back
You change it then change back
You change it then change back
You change it then change back
You change it then change back
You change it then change back
You change it then change back
You change it then change back
You change it then change back
You change it then change back
You change it then change back
Need I go on
JUst cos a few pilots moan and whine that somthing they have will be nerfed you get all worried and change it
Damm CCP there are 50000 plus players in EvE NOT 450.
Stick with your program and make your changes and stick with it
When everybody went off on one about torps or the speed nerf 10 times as many ppl complained yet for some reason you still went trough with it. So my question is who rattled your cage enough to drop any changes.
I think your devs should stop mining and get it sorted and leave it alone and let ppl emmo rage quit and let ppl whine with there 9 accounts. If they dont like the game anymore go play WoW
I personally think the changes you made were slightly odd but we have to deal with that and just get on with it
EvE is still a great game
Oh btw if any devs emmo rage quit can i az there stuff
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Alar Tangor
Caldari
Decadence.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:54:00 -
[771]
its still quite faszinating to watch my own posts scale 2 pages back by now though... only 21 pages to go till it reaches page 1... ill give it another 2h or so lol
also: please: some of you elusive devs: just say that you at least read this thread instead of just silently deleting stuff...
Alar's Official Mod-proof Sig |
ElvenLord
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.20 08:54:00 -
[772]
Originally by: iP0D
He and you missed something.
The "excellence focus" was the "post Dominion" focus, when CCP starts to develop more products within the EVE universe, interconnected yet seperate commercial products, leaving less time and resources for EVE, and thus the switch to less large expansions with less extensive feature sets but with a higher focus on the quality of those feature sets.
This was the manager talk about "EVE Forever". EVE will continue, but since they will expand on product lines it will receive less attention and focus then thusfar. To compensate for that they will continue to deliver free expansions, just smaller ones, with less stuff, but small pieces of good shiny which will be introduced "perfect".
The problem here might be that the product they already have is broken to hell and back. There are so many things not working or hardly working in eve.
Diverting majority of assets to a new product does not solve existing problems it just creates new ones for both old product and possible new one, not to mention the gamble of new product being a total fail.
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Nerd Floozie
Agressive Male Gaze Holding Co.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:00:00 -
[773]
- ٩๏̯͡๏)۶
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
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Fuujin
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:00:00 -
[774]
Edited by: Fuujin on 20/11/2009 09:02:08
Hey CCP Nozh I'ma let you finish but
Target Painters
***Do NOT Work***
on Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps
So your theories in 'balancing' the citadel missiles are fundamentally flawed. Do the right thing: Delay Dominion until you have more things working than you had to "put off" due to the artificial Dec 1 constraint.
Thank you!
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murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:02:00 -
[775]
Just... LOL.
Again it appears that CCP Nozh has no clear design document constructed for the changes he's implementing. You guys (the CCP dev team) are sitting around at the 11th hour and JUST NOW decide that you don't have a firm direction with which to proceed on Mom/SC changes?
The radical variation in changes being put forth by the design team is a solid indication that the team/person in charge has no idea what they're doing or where they're going with respect to the changes. CCP Nozh is once again trying to 'hero mode' it at the last minute and throw something together in the hope that it somehow works.
Well this time, instead of being in charge of T3 stuff that nobody yet owns and isn't that expensive or game breaking, he's now in charge of the most expensive and powerful ships in the game and he's totally screwed up the job. I would have thought that Torfi and crew would have had a tighter leash on his bunch, but I guess not. How does this crap even get past peer review? Does Nozh even submit daily or weekly reports for review? WTH is going on at CCP that this can happen at all?
Now we're going to be suck with no mom changes, but with the Titan changes going forward. Really? Now Titans are going to two volley a mom. What are the mom pilots going to do? Probably go to lowsec where they can operate yet not be threatened by Titan DDs. But my point isn't to lament the woes of lowsec with this post.
The manner with which CCP has conducted the development of the SC change is unprofessional and irresponsible. Yes, there is a myriad features that are really incredible that are coming with Dominion. But SCs aren't on that list.
Nozh was in charge of T3 in Apocrypha and look where that got us. Bland ships with only a few unique capabilities and we're still missing the 5th subsystems that were planned. Nozh barely made it out of that one alive and then CCP turns around and hands him even more responsibility? I don't get it.
Heck, for the T3 stuff Nozh didn't even have a design doc written up until a group of players wrote their own and sent it to the dev team themselves because they were so concerned about the well being of the game they love. Why let this kind of thing continue? Get someone else who can do the job, and do it properly. Supercaps isn't something to play the guessing game with.
Also, I think a lot of players would be VERY interested to see what the chain of command is regarding these supercap changes. Who's responsible and who's responsible for double checking their work, and who's approving it. Inquiring minds want to know.
-murder one
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now?
[07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 |
Itzena
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:05:00 -
[776]
CCP in "Doesn't know what it is doing ITExpansion" shock.
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Taaii
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:05:00 -
[777]
I hear vanguard are lacking dev's
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Khalimshan
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:10:00 -
[778]
Target Painters
***Do NOT Work***
on Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps
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Igor Epocci
Minmatar
Fringe Industries EMS
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:11:00 -
[779]
Edited by: Igor Epocci on 20/11/2009 09:14:32
Edited by: Igor Epocci on 20/11/2009 09:13:54
so let me see if my carebear self understands this all correctly:
-titans are being relegated to bookends
-moms are still bookends
-moms are less useful than the rorquals they are parked next to
-best DPS from a dread is to throw it at someone
well crap. Between this and Sov, my hopes of breaking into 0.0 are more like x_X
thanks.
I appreciate it.
no, really.
maybe I could just fly a target drone...
oh, wait. I already do...
(edit)
oh. um. Nozh? I knew that target painters don't work on the aforementioned ships/towers/etc.
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Milano II
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:14:00 -
[780]
Did somebody say Jumpgate Evolution will have a good dev team?
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Georn
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:14:00 -
[781]
Hmm.. we all know that most Companies producing Games are recruiting their Developers from accounting and legal nowadays ..
I still don't understand why the working (IMHO pretty nice) Changes were changed, rolled back a mere two weeks before release.
I just don't get it.
Well maybe CCP will use the remaining time to fix important bugs like missing turret recoil animation instead,
no?
____________
nerf metagaming, boost fun |
Anile8er
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
Distant Drums
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:15:00 -
[782]
CCp Nozh
"Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yswLTyUCkpo
No they never happen at close range......
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Tappits
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:15:00 -
[783]
Originally by: Vile rat
"Dear Eve community:
In our effort to bring cool new content that we felt players would enjoy we fell into the same trap that numerous other game development companies have fallen into and for this we apologize. We came up with capital ships and they were clearly popular with the playerbase but we made a slight miscalculation when we introduced the concept of an alliance level supercapital ship. You see we never actually tested the effect that these originally invincible monsters would have on overall gameplay and we freely admit our rookie mistake. In our misguided attempt to balance the cost vs utility of these items we quickly realized that to make them worthwhile is to have a game breaking platform that ruined overall gameplay and destroyed any chance of mass alliance vs alliance warfare that is anything remotely close to fun.
Whoops!
We've realized that there is no way to introduce these broken items in any form into the game without making everybody unhappy so we are going to reimburse all owners of these items to their build cost and we will not introduce them into the game again.
Sorry for any inconvenience and we'll strive not to make such a mistake again. Also ignore any of our attempt to try and duct tape this broken concept into semi usefulness, that was just the effort of a few misguided dev's who while meaning well, didn't know when to just say 'ok this whole concept is dumb and we're cutting our losses'.
Best regards,
Your dev team"
No need to thank me, I can see the gratitude in your hearts.
Love,
Vile rat
xoxoxo
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ = cool little angry man = :) me lol
Anyway this topic is fail.......
get rid of suppercaps totaly and give isk backs to the peoples and let them move there skills about a bit after years of training for them.
----------------------------------------------
Pro BOB?????
I fail At forums |
Eniy Oh
Gallente
United Systems Navy
Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:21:00 -
[784]
Quoting myself, originally posted this here: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1217285&page=1
Apparantly it belongs here.
Quote:
"Normal" game developers delay releases all the time. CCP should try it and stop with rushing an expansion which obviously still has many faults. Everyone who follows the dev blogs, spends time on Sisi, is part of a 0.0 alliance, reads the discussions, knows there's an incredible ammount of things wrong with Dominion. I'm not gonna detail that here, I'm just gonna assume people who agree with me have more or less the same information.
Releasing Dominion within 1,5 week from now with so many obvious flaws will have the potential of bringing EVE closer to MMO Death.
Maybe the corporate owners of CCP don't care. Maybe their marketing guys whispered in their ears that "there absolutely can't be any delay". Maybe competing space MMO's are rushing towards the limelight and CCP has to block their moves with a high-profile high-powered PR buffed expansion.
CCP: don't be tempted by external forces to ignore things you should fix internally! Also go back to two-way feedback between developers trusted by the community and the community itself. Maybe in your opinion it won't affect the bottom line much, but for us players getting a warm and fuzzy feeling about the devs and what they're trying to do is very important regarding our CONSUMER BEHAVIOUR: do we continue to buy this product or not? Are we pleased by the company's service? Do we have the feeling the company is taking his clients seriously?
At the moment, we, the consumer, are not being taken seriously.
CCP, make a good expansion and communicate with your clients more effectively. Recognize the fact that ****ing off your long-term subscribers, who've been with you for years, can be the ultimate recipe for MMO death. For killing your own child.
Anyway, I could rant a lot longer... I'm under the impression a lot of people know very well what I'm talking about.
Now..
I'm simply calling here that the CSM put forward to CCP AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, the very simple idea of POSTPONING the release of Dominion.
And let CCP developers without - or at least with less - time stress get it right. You made us wait for WiS/Incarna for like 3 years, we can wait for a better 0.0/supercap patch a bit longer...................
Edit: if you don't believe this is not a troll check my posting history. I never speak up on Eve-o unless I have something to say which I deem to be important. So please treat this post seriously.
Another edit: this is my personal opinion and doesn't reflect what my corp and/or alliance thinks. This is me, as a PAYING CUSTOMER (I pay for 5 accounts), bringing this issue to the CSM.
---
The one whose ship names don't pass the sanity test while the rest of him is rather sane |
SamHandwich
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:22:00 -
[785]
Before going to work you guys at ccp should smoke a **** load of weed, SAMHANDWICH FOR CSM #5!
Smoke Weed Everyday! |
Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 09:23:00 -
[786]
Can we please get a dev in charge who HAS A CLUE about the game??
"Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances."
Capital fight ALWAYS happen at short range!
"In order to allow the XL Turrets to be viable on other ship classes..."
What other ship classes?? Titans?! Get a clue man! No one uses titans when they can do the same damage with 2 or 3 dreads. That is ridiculous!
"Due to the changes made to XL Turrets, Citadel Missiles/Torpedoes and projectile turrets, the Naglfar became an absolute monster."
Enough comments on that in this thread already. Just shows that obviously that dev either cannot understand his own changes or that he is just to lazy and doesn't care about them and makes things up out of the blue.
"The explosion velocity is slightly higher than that of the Citadel Cruise Missiles (or 2250) which means target painters will have to be utilized in many situations to achieve full damage potential."
Target painters do not work on structures, supercapitals or sieged capitals.
"As we said, roles are what matter."
Okay, then tell us what roles you propose for the carrier, dread, mothership and titan. Because I haven't heard A SINGLE word about that so far.
And I don't really want to comment about the fact that we had a nice working solution for those supercapitals thanks to Abathur's good work together with the players. Then suddenly out of the blue Nozh appears, destroys everything, changes everything to the worse and makes everything a complete fail so that a nice part of the expansion must be cancelled (balancing supercapitals). Yeah, great work there Nozh and great game CCP for letting this guy ruin AGAIN (it is not the first time) some interesting stuff. No, I won't comment, I would get only upset.
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Boppi
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:23:00 -
[787]
I really lost count how often Eve has died
___________________________
1st lol umad? omgwtf! cu on teh battlefield hurfblurf post with ur main derp Toasting in an epic bread hurr |
Bilbo II
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:25:00 -
[788]
Hey have they stopped deleting 9 out of every 10 posts yet?
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The Kan
Gallente
Evolution
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:27:00 -
[789]
thank you for reversing the moms change, now we can be insta-pop'ed by titan
give the moms a HP buff or imunity to the ddd so we dont drop like fly's, this is nuts!!
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Aequitas Veritas
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:28:00 -
[790]
Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 20/11/2009 09:29:45
Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 20/11/2009 09:28:44
CCP what do you loose out on by implementing what Abathur has suggested for Dominion and lets see how things evolve? Doesnt keep you from making changes again in a month or two and everything is better than the situation we have now. Use the watered down version that can launch 10 or 15 fighterbombers and 20 fighters (limited through bandwith). Keep the clone vat bay. Continue the price as it is now and increase the HP suggested. You'll get a ship that ppl will use untill you figure out what roles you want for the different ships.
Same goes for Titans - they are currently mobile jumpbridges that will at most be used in their current form to do drivebys with meds filled with sensor boosters to gank a few capitals before returning to the safety of posshields. There is no incentive for putting them on the field. They need their 200% damage pr level or they will not be used at all on the field, with or without HP boost.
So Motherships
- Same cost as today
- HP boost
- Limit number of fighterdrones to 10 + DCU's through bandwith and not number of drones launched (still 20 fighters / drones)
- Keep the clone vat, ECM, EW-immunity
- No dock
Titans
- 200% damage to guns / level or these ships wont be used for anything but jump bridges and I sure want to see these babies on the field so they can be killed
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:32:00 -
[791]
Hey guys, I thought target painters didn't actually work on sieged Dreads, POS, MS or Titans, can someone confirm this please?
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Zaiyo Modi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:32:00 -
[792]
People complaining that a mothership is too vulnerable to a titan have their priorities wrong im sure. Are capital ships meant to be single player assets? I would say yes and NO. It's ones loss anyway, but that shouldn't be dictating the game mechanics by insisting on the one guys shiploss.
Imo, there is no real scale of balance. And everything should be viewed in context of this game being a multiplayer game, with existing game mechanics and player base. So, one might have to realize that using a mothership in any and all situations might be a bad idea.
I can understand the horrible loss, with having ones expensive capital ship blow up. Time to harden up.
One flaw I believe is there in eve online, is the notion of pitting a ship against another ship for the sake of "balancing" the ship stats.
/me start to play a sad tune on a violin
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Jarnis McPieksu
Insidious Existence
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:34:00 -
[793]
Originally by: Alar Tangor
and again: if goons, IT AND AAA all agree on one topic there is a strong chance that there is a problem somewhere that needs to be addressed...
...and NC.
It is cats and dogs... end of the world etc.
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Vadimik
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:41:00 -
[794]
... this blog would be far more usefull if it contained actual ship/weapon stats, instead of EFT-style pseudo-analysis.
Like, you know, what's the actual cooldown timer for new DDD, are any ship bonuses changed, etc.
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Han Grit
tr0pa de elite
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:43:00 -
[795]
wow naglfar nerf ROTFL
Nozh fails again (CCP fails again for letting Nozh do something)
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:43:00 -
[796]
I don't get this blog. You say your dev team isn't happy with the mom design, but you don't explain why. Why were the original changes and the anti-cap role in any way undesirable. The people doing the fighting with them weren't complaining, so what could possibly be this noble goal that warrants ****ing off everyone involved. You only spout some lame and weak vague crap, that wouldn't even convince a elementary school teacher, that you might actually have some good reasons for your decision. You already had positive feedback and loads of testing, so you should be able to tell exactly what the problem was, if there actually was one.
Whatever comes of this, I suggest you review the whole process and people involved in this capship fiasco. The project manager who authorized last minute changes to approved and tested concept, that was liked by the players, should get special scrutiny. He/She seems to have trouble handling the responsibility given at this time. The comments on the blog even suggest he/she put people in charge who didn't even know how cap warfare works. Identify the problems and remove people to other areas who keep insisting, that no mistakes were made.
You had a plan, you had the support, you had tested the changes and had positive feedback. There was nothing to suggest, that anything was wrong with the plan. If someone in the desing group can't come up with a verifiable game breaking reason why the changes had to be scrapped, you might consider trasferring the cap ship project out of their incompetent hands.
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Tappits
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:44:00 -
[797]
Originally by: Minto Took
Every 0.0 alliance should wardec CCP Alliance.
Just a thought.
Thats a realy good idea lol :)
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Pro BOB?????
I fail At forums |
Infinion
Caldari
Endless Destruction
BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:46:00 -
[798]
Hey, I think CCP should change the picture on the front page of the eve website with those cool looking fighter-bombers
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Petar Quaresma
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:49:00 -
[799]
Edited by: Petar Quaresma on 20/11/2009 09:49:18
Can someone remind what there is to look forward to in Dominion besides obvious design mistakes?
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D'ceet
Lone Star Joint Venture
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:51:00 -
[800]
Nozh, please just be trolling us all, and that ****'s gonna get better...because i dont want my Nyx getting **** slapped by two russian titans - especially since before you undid the purposed changes,that made them actually have a decent EHP.
not leaving pos shields with hostile titans online. thanks.
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Hahaha what the christ?!
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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:52:00 -
[801]
Quote:
The explosion radius of Citadel Cruise Missiles will be set to 1500, which differs from the current 1000 explosion radius of Citadel Torpedoes on Tranquility.
Are you just throwing those numbers together regardless if they make sense with the existing weapon systems? Or is there some deeper meaning?
Because the standard cruise missiles have a smaller explosion radius than the standard torpedos. Same goes with all the other guided vs unguided missiles. They NEVER have a larger explosion radius. Just suddenly those new xl guided missiles have 50% larger explosion radius?
Yeah, makes all so much sense.
Talking about a clear game design compared to just throwing sh!t together in the hope that it will work.
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Ayanami Hime
Amarr
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:52:00 -
[802]
CCP, this must be some kind of joke!
how can you scrap all the good ideas and changes a few days before the planned release of dominion?
you really should delay Dominion a month or two and think again! (and get abathur back in charge)
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Aqua Tarkus
ZER0.
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:55:00 -
[803]
Originally by: Infinion
Hey, I think CCP should change the picture on the front page of the eve website with those cool looking fighter-bombers
I agree. CCP plz remove that nasty image of bombers because there will be no bombers in Dominion.
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Walker Bulldog
Minmatar
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:57:00 -
[804]
Cruise Missiles V finish training in 28 minutes. Someone please explain to me why did I dump 1.28 million skillpoints (for a total of 4m sp in missiles now - as a pure Minmatar pilot) into yet another skill for a dread that's officially useless?
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Lazarus Bregg
FREE GATES
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Posted - 2009.11.20 09:59:00 -
[805]
CCP you should use people who are competent in the world of EVE. Not geeks and nerds who know only the f*cking code...
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Alar Tangor
Caldari
Decadence.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 10:03:00 -
[806]
Originally by: Walker Bulldog
Cruise Missiles V finish training in 28 minutes. Someone please explain to me why did I dump 1.28 million skillpoints (for a total of 4m sp in missiles now - as a pure Minmatar pilot) into yet another skill for a dread that's officially useless?
better ratting in your raven?
Alar's Official Mod-proof Sig |
Marlona Sky
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 10:03:00 -
[807]
Every month you pay for your sub you are telling CCP that you like what they are doing. Not paying says you don't like what they are doing.
This is the way of things.
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Jarnis McPieksu
Insidious Existence
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 10:04:00 -
[808]
Originally by: Walker Bulldog
Cruise Missiles V finish training in 28 minutes. Someone please explain to me why did I dump 1.28 million skillpoints (for a total of 4m sp in missiles now - as a pure Minmatar pilot) into yet another skill for a dread that's officially useless?
Because you fail at understanding the situation?
Ever since it became clear that CCP didn't consider reload times as a factor when balancing DPS (like, say, in this devblog where all the graphs happily ignore it) it has been painfully clear that the only solution to CCP ship balancing fail woes is for every pilot to train Amarr.
And that doesn't even take into account the whole "LOL you ran out of ammo?" issue which non-Amarr pilots get to hear every time...
Since you have already spent the SP on some fail race, you are also protected in case CCP some day figures out that yes, reload time and ammo limitations do actually matter when balancing ships.
But until that mythical day comes, train Amarr.
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H Zebra
Zebra Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.20 10:07:00 -
[809]
CCP NOZH how about you leave all capital ships alone in dom, and request that someone who actually knows about them have a look in 6 months time. as you clearly know nothing about there use and the roles they currently have.
you know nothing, stop letting people in the office convice you that you do
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McEivalley
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 10:08:00 -
[810]
Guys, bend over and get the skinny from CCP Nozh's latest blog.
This patch is really going to change the face of this game to Gooooood-Morning-Empire-Online! - where carebears dare to NAP big 0.0 alliances for 2 more anomalies and a lot more mining per day (as long as they pay the rent)!
That's right, its roll the rock time with exciting new changes to all big-bad-ass-ships out there! (no, we don't mean Hulks).
Yeah, titans will now get to kill a dread or two before they are downed! Yeah, instead of wiping out in trios BSs and support, I now see the flocks of titans coming to the field to alpha some dreads and then staying gallantly to die a longer, more full of ehp death. Who will throw a 50 billion worth of ship to kill 1.5 dreads when you can field 40 dreads for that price and kill more? Now that the ship has a much clearer separate role than dreads () it oh so make sense to me now! Its for logistics purposes really... use the bridge module more often folks - it's now encouraged officially.
Hey, don't worry Nag pilots - you weren't worth anything before and now we're making sure of that! Moros pilots, you're gonna love ~hotdrops~ - its the new idea Nozh has for your shiny cap ions, blast a bit further gents and don't mind the drones bonus - you didn't want to play on station undocks with them anyways!
Rev pilots you're nerfed! nerfed! NERFED! oh wait...
So that's how cap sized forum tears look like . Take your moms back to their stable-POSes and don't forget to skill for capital target painting 5! So phoenixes can hit something with their cap weapons as well! And also don't forget that now phoenixes (and nags, but who cares about these) can fit the new capital cruise, which can do even less no-damage at really really far ranges!
But srsly, there's some good in all of this - you can still call those multi-billion isk worth of pixels Moms...
Insert clever remark where? |
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The Kan
Gallente
Evolution
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 10:09:00 -
[811]
CCP: Serious question. dont delete this post i want a answer.
The default insurance value will also be kept in dominion for the moms? or they will be gone as planned?
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Walker Bulldog
Minmatar
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
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Posted - 2009.11.20 10:09:00 -
[812]
Originally by: Alar Tangor
Originally by: Walker Bulldog
Cruise Missiles V finish training in 28 minutes. Someone please explain to me why did I dump 1.28 million skillpoints (for a total of 4m sp in missiles now - as a pure Minmatar pilot) into yet another skill for a dread that's officially useless?
better ratting in your raven?
Pure Minmatar pilot. Total of 1500 skillpoints in non-Minmatar ships (amarr/caldari/gallente frigate 1).
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Buxaroo
Gallente
The Maverick Navy
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 10:10:00 -
[813]
Originally by: Vadinho
Originally by: Hk93g3
CCP is the new Sony? EVE is the new SWG? C/D?
i was there when sony released the details for the nge to their playerbase. i can remember watching them deleting waves of posts on their forums from their players warning them how bad of an idea the changes were, and i thought, how could a company be so stupid
how could a company be so stupid
I was there to and I am quoting this to show where we are coming from. I was so ****ed when the NGE hit that I got all 2 of my SWG accounts banned from the game and the forums because I was equivocating SOE with Dubya and even posting pictures to illustrate it. And I never looked back. All of us stood there and just watched hopelessly as the game we all loved was morphed into the absolute worst contrivance known to an MMO.
It got SO bad from people complaining that they even had to resort to giving out REFUNDS for the expansion because of the threats of class action lawsuits. And we were right. They promised all these new things to us, and everything they said was a complete and outright lie that changed the way the whole game worked. Look at Star Wars Galaxies now. It's not even worth the pixels these words are made of to talk about anymore. No one plays it. They lost 80% of their customers literally over night because of the NGE. All because some jackass who knows nothing of how the game worked or who wouldn't listen to how people who PLAY it actually felt about the changes they proposed.
So essentially the last year of maxing out my alt's skills for using the mothership, the last 2 months of isk grinding and hoarding (which I loathe cus I would rather be playing the game as opposed to mindlessly grinding isk), all for naught. So now that I have no use for my alt, the account won't be resubbed on the 6th. I have ZERO use for it now. I am not gonna spend $15 just to move ships once a month when I can do it in a Rorqual.
And to all of the idiots who think people like me won't quit the game or won't resub. Just go and google NGE and see how stubborn we can be. I walked away from that game without even blinking and burned every bridge I had with that game and I was a full fledged Star Wars fan in every way.
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Damian Vilsalant
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 10:13:00 -
[814]
Ok, what the HELL is going on here CCP? You have now started stealthily deleting massive amounts of posts in this thread to give the impression that this is not so big an issue to the community. This is quickly becoming damn SoE who also suppress and manipulate their public forums to give the impression that they and their games don't suck...
In the past posts were only edited (e.g. *this post has been cleared of inappropriate content*) but now "suddenly" the Ministry of Love seems to have started simply outright deleting posts whenever they can - I guess the reason is to keep the amount of pages on this thread as low as possible... I guess three 100 page whines within 2 weeks are simply too much for CCP to take. But instead of listening to us, your paying customers, you rather censor us and stealthily delete everything to maintain the impression that we don't think you fail, epically.
Covering up your own ineptitude with some good old censorship... makes me puke.
Please continue reading this thread here:
http://eve-search.com/thread/1217073
EVE-search preserves most posts that were deemed "evil" and fell victim to CCPs new suppression policy. As you will see the thread on EVE search has over 3 pages more then this one! This is clear proof that CCP has been systematically and subversively influencing the flow of information here in the forums. You an really be proud of yourselves now CCP.
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Aqua Tarkus
ZER0.
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 10:21:00 -
[815]
CCP excluding Nozh will you give us an explanation why Abathur's proposals were/are bad?
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dtyk
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Posted - 2009.11.20 10:27:00 -
[816]
Originally by: Petar Quaresma
Edited by: Petar Quaresma on 20/11/2009 09:49:18
Can someone remind what there is to look forward to in Dominion besides obvious design mistakes?
Slightly better planet textures.
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Cindy McCain
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 10:29:00 -
[817]
I was kinda excited about this expansion. I should of known better
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Zeveron
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 10:30:00 -
[818]
Originally by: dtyk
Originally by: Petar Quaresma
Edited by: Petar Quaresma on 20/11/2009 09:49:18
Can someone remind what there is to look forward to in Dominion besides obvious design mistakes?
Slightly better planet textures.
hey you forgot the new browser and mail system :-)
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Sergeant Clawhammer
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Posted - 2009.11.20 10:31:00 -
[819]
Hehe, CCP are hilarious.
Now where is that Epic Fail ASCII art I keep seeing in Tash Murkon Prime?
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Alar Tangor
Caldari
Decadence.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 10:33:00 -
[820]
Originally by: Damian Vilsalant
Ok, what the HELL is going on here CCP? You have now started stealthily deleting massive amounts of posts in this thread to give the impression that this is not so big an issue to the community. This is quickly becoming damn SoE who also suppress and manipulate their public forums to give the impression that they and their games don't suck...
wait... now? stealthily? they have been deleting posts for hours keeping the thread at page 23 for about 4h while there was about 1 post every 5-10 minutes or so
Alar's Official Mod-proof Sig |
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Ayshamara
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Posted - 2009.11.20 10:35:00 -
[821]
Whats all this rubbish about narrowly defined roles for motherships?
Surely if you are stuck in the damn thing because it cant dock it should have broad role capabilities.
I suggest you leave the cloning vat on board so it can be used as a platform for other pilots to use as well as improving its damage dealing capabilities.
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Tappits
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 10:35:00 -
[822]
Originally by: Telender
http://ccp.vo.llnwd.net/o2/features/revelations2/vid-ivar.swf
Everyone say hello to young Nozh.
Not him. HE looks nothing like nore does he sound anything like the real one.
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Pro BOB?????
I fail At forums |
Clone 1
Occision
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Posted - 2009.11.20 10:37:00 -
[823]
Before hanging up Nozh, we have been told in the past that these changes are not just made by one person and are ratified by a group.
From '07 :"We expected such a drastic change to result in a lot of feedback. We did not expect the requests to prematurely end dear Zulupark's existence in this universe, some of which were *very* imaginative and in more ways than we thought possible. We'd like to point out all design matters are ratified in groups, so in the future, please include at least Hammerhead, Oveur and our janitor in any ill thoughts you may have as a result of EVE's direction. " Linkage
But you cannot tell me that this devblog was ratified by a group of devs, although it does look like the janitor did have a hand in it.
Now where did I put my rope?
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The Angels Have the Phone Box |
Peryner
University of Caille
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Posted - 2009.11.20 10:40:00 -
[824]
OMG, did the dev bog really say you learned your lesson about balancing based on price?
what lesson! when did this happen!
No wonder you guys don't care about risk vs. Reward. That in it's very nature is balance based on price.
If you RISK 60 billion isk, the REWARD should be higher! this should ALWAYS be the direction of eve! tha's why I started playing : (
Anwyas, if you want to make titans useful make them have 2 dreads dps. And now.. get your programing pants on, make them dockable.
Let people dock inside titans. Let people get in, and then the titan can jump. Get rid of titans pulling other
ships through.
When you die in battle you should wake up in the titan on field in a cruiser and be able to undock and get right back in the fight!
Then the titan would be wroth the risk, and it would be a prime target.
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Loco Eve
State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.11.20 10:51:00 -
[825]
Thanks to ccp nerfing every ship right after I trained it. Yes, that's correct I trained a ship because of what it WAS able to do yet again.
I can confirm that this will be the last nerf I will ever give a crap about. I'm not going to renew any of my 4 accts.
You need to wake up and fly right.
The only reasonable solution would be to allow all cap pilots a one time chance to adjust all the time training they put into caps to distribute those skills and isk elsewhere. I know I would.
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Tetovo
Caldari
Burning Technologies
Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:00:00 -
[826]
Edited by: Tetovo on 20/11/2009 11:04:35
April fool's day is still 5 months away.
what the **** is this
First small alliances were happy because we thought we might be able to take a little piece of 0.0 and make it a little isk making paradise, then you crushed that dream.
Then AF Pilots were happy because we would not have to absolutely nerf our tanking ability to keep up with our gangs, the idea of being a heavy tackler was realized, then you crushed that dream.
And finally it looked as if all 4 types of capitals would be on the same battlefield, then you crushed that dream.
Welp looks like I'll just go farm LP and get a navy domi.
Please just release the new faction stuff, missions and crap. Then take a step back and think about sov and cap ships for a few months.
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Ker HarSol
Minmatar
Zip - I
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:01:00 -
[827]
I don't get it.
How is it even possible for such a guy to be a dev and responsible for capital ships if he even doesn't know the most basic game mechanics about them and how they are actually used in game?
Why were the good changes from Abathur all deleted? What was wrong with them?
Why is all the talk in the devblog so inconsitent? E.g titans should be the logistic backbone, but at the same time they get boni to be some super killers?
And where is all the excellence gone? ALL the gameplay aspects of the new expansion caused massive sh*tstorms and outcries of the playerbase. What is wrong there? Why aren't people looking forward towards the next expansion but they almost all say 'fail fail fail', especially those who know a lot about gameplay.
What is wrong? |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:02:00 -
[828]
Originally by: Peryner
OMG, did the dev bog really say you learned your lesson about balancing based on price?
what lesson! when did this happen!
No wonder you guys don't care about risk vs. Reward. That in it's very nature is balance based on price.
If you RISK 60 billion isk, the REWARD should be higher! this should ALWAYS be the direction of eve! tha's why I started playing : (
What CCP tried to balance based on price was the number of titans in game, not the price/performance. As we now ended up with 300 instead of the intended three they got the hint...
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:03:00 -
[829]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
CCP isn't known to cut features like this so late in the game. The only thing that comes close was Combat Simulators, which was never announced nor play-tested.
This isn't just a case of not being "able to commit". Ok, so it would be postponed to a subsequent patch(Dominion 1.1?), right?
CCP has been "proud" about it's SCRUM structure and how the individual teams commit to the task they work on. Given that the teams ought to be in their last sprint(1 Sprint = 2 weeks or so), only realizing that the planning(Nor the actual feature) worked out poorly this late in the game is simply inexcusable.
What happened to Abathur's mothership implementation? It had a huge sisi-testing session that yielded great feedback. Why was it killed?
It seems like anything Nozh touches is bound to fail. Look at T3 and how it was seemingly done during the very last couple of sprints. Aren't we still missing the last subsystems for that, by the way?
This.
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Rex Hargrove
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:06:00 -
[830]
Maybe if make mother ships into uber mining ships they'll get buffed. Since the hulk is the most flown ship in the game, why not make motherhulks that can mine in high sec. I'm hoping to see this change snuck in for dominion.
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Jakooni
United Amarr Templar Legion
Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:09:00 -
[831]
Free Abathur! |
McEivalley
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:13:00 -
[832]
Originally by: Peryner
OMG, did the dev bog really say you learned your lesson about balancing based on price?
what lesson! when did this happen!
No wonder you guys don't care about risk vs. Reward. That in it's very nature is balance based on price.
If you RISK 60 billion isk, the REWARD should be higher! this should ALWAYS be the direction of eve! tha's why I started playing : (
Anwyas, if you want to make titans useful make them have 2 dreads dps. And now.. get your programing pants on, make them dockable.
Let people dock inside titans. Let people get in, and then the titan can jump. Get rid of titans pulling other
ships through.
When you die in battle you should wake up in the titan on field in a cruiser and be able to undock and get right back in the fight!
Then the titan would be wroth the risk, and it would be a prime target.
Your ideas are banal and dull. You, sir, are on the verge of target painting dreadlaughs in siege for capital cruise molesting. I srsly convey my thoughts on this matter - allowing a small ship to dock or undock from a much larger one is science fiction and balancing risk for reward is soooo boring of you.
I mean, your isk assessments ignore qualitative differences for titans such as they are a lot more pixels on the screen than any other ship (= a lot more art design time and coding for your money) which translates to a need to occupy more virtual low security space, secure it with modules that need upkeep, which in turn needs to be secured, as well as securing the upkeep effort... all of these cannot be offhanded dismissed! srsly, if you don't pull up a POS and offline the ship quickly enough you get ~goodfights~ coming your way real quick. And after that, there's no way any multi-logoffski trick will get you out of that mess... but I deviated.
Thank you for your co-operation. You WANT to go to the isla... I mean dominion.
Insert clever remark where? |
Cornette
Gallente
Black Screen of Death
Huzzah Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:14:00 -
[833]
So guys, how many target painters do I need on my Naglfar to make it a "monster"? 2...? 3...?
Aww screw it, it stays in the hangar until the day I really need the isk and self-destruct it for insurance. I regret wasting over a month of training on it, but maybe that it will be useful again 2014.
Seriously I've never seen so much fail in a devblog before. CCP you should stop balancing stuff at the last minute before a deadline. I mean it, really. Admit that you screwed up with the first ideas and should really have postponed all the capital changes instead of making bad ones worse.
Target painting dreads... Titans that can instapop moms... Thats really LAME!
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Eniy Oh
Gallente
United Systems Navy
Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:14:00 -
[834]
Confirming my post at position #691 in this topic got deleted. I reposted my post from this http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1217285&page=1, as that topic got locked with a message saying "please keep all discussion here (this topic)".
What's wrong CCP, can't you at least delete the content of my post with some message saying why it wasn't appropiate?
This topic exists to provide feedback, if you don't like what I have to say, DEAL WITH IT.
Don't silence us in a sneaky covert way, it seriously doesn't help your case.
We are paying customers with very legitimate concerns, DON'T IGNORE US.
You're wrecking your own game here, and you're making me, who was at first midly concerned, pretty damn ****ed right now.
And confirming I'm paying your company (5 x 15) x 12 = 900 euros/year. That's more than any other non-essential service I'm buying.
In return for this trust I place in your company, I don't wish to be treated this way.
Anyway, BACK ON TOPIC, hoping this won't get deleted:
The release of Dominion should be delayed and all issues the playerbase has with it needs to be properly addressed. Or if this not an option step it up and fix it now when you still have time.
Otherwise I fear CCP will have made one nerf too many, and ****ed of its memberbase just a bit too much and you'll get a failure cascade of people unsubscribing like you've never seen before.
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The one whose ship names don't pass the sanity test while the rest of him is rather sane |
Yazus Kor
Naraka Holdings
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:14:00 -
[835]
@CCP: 'ur doing it wrong'
"Beware, you who seek first and final principles, for you are trampling the garden of an angry God and he awaits you just beyond the last theorem." |
Terianna Eri
Amarr
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:15:00 -
[836]
So a feedback thread is pretty pointless if we don't get any responses about our concerns.
Then again that's been the problem when dealing with CCP Nozh for the past week or so...
You guys at CCP should be familiar how this works; make a huge change, a threadnaught happens, etc. Why don't you wait to post the devblog until people are actually ready and willing to respond to feedback?
I don't want to tell you guys how to do your jobs but seriously, the longer you let things go without explanation/communication, the worse they get.
________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito
PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
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Tappits
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:15:00 -
[837]
Originally by: Muadd Dibb
JUst cos a few pilots moan and whine that somthing they have will be nerfed you get all worried and change it
Damm CCP there are 50000 plus players in EvE NOT 450.
Because there was some thing wrong with speed and it did need looking at, this on the otherhand is something totaly different.
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
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Pro BOB?????
I fail At forums |
Serena Ku
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:16:00 -
[838]
Ok so what exactly happened here CCP? Can you please explain why Abathur's tweaked supercapital design and feedback were disregarded and leave these majestic ships so utterly useless? If you simply kept Abathur's designs you'll have so many happy customers and CCP as a business will get more money out of that move. What happened?
I think the EVE community deserves at least an answer to that question.
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Sepheir Sepheron
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:17:00 -
[839]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 20/11/2009 01:03:43
Target Painters
***Do NOT Work***
on Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps
lol CCP probably feels pretty dumb about this.
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Vashan Tar
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:19:00 -
[840]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 20/11/2009 01:03:43
Target Painters
***Do NOT Work***
on Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps
You do realise that with the constant contradicting statements that you have been releasing (two goddamn weeks before dominion is released), that you have completely lost any confidence people may have had that this expansion is not going to be a complete and utter abortion.
You then appear to have assigned a dev who has NO CLUE about capital warfare and what actually happens in nullsec (docking motherships? Target painting towers? I don't even fly a cap and know that this is up there with the charge of the light brigade in DUMB THINGS TO DO), who then completely invalidates all the previous testing and feedback that has been given on sisi on what appeared to be well thought out propsals for the long overdue capital rebalance that has been sorely needed.
Please take CCP Nozh off the capital team and put him on something where he's not going to (1) Expose his complete lack of knowledge about INTERNET SPACESHIPS (loltargetpainters) and (2) Won't cause icelands economy to tank (the second time) when you lose the only thing thats keeping it afloat, i.e your subscribers...............
Put him somewhere where he won't completely sabotage the hard work done by dev's that actually appear to know what they're talking about. World of Darkness would be a good choice.
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Ceirah
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:22:00 -
[841]
Originally by: Eniy Oh
Moderation discussion removed. Navigator
We are paying customers with very legitimate concerns, DON'T IGNORE US.
You're wrecking your own game here, and you're making me, who was at first midly concerned, pretty damn ****ed right now.
And confirming I'm paying your company (5 x 15) x 12 = 900 euros/year. That's more than any other non-essential service I'm buying.
In return for this trust I place in your company, I don't wish to be treated this way.
Anyway, BACK ON TOPIC, hoping this won't get deleted:
The release of Dominion should be delayed and all issues the playerbase has with it needs to be properly addressed. Or if this is not an option step it up and fix it now when you still have time.
Otherwise I fear CCP will have made one nerf too many, and ****ed of its memberbase just a bit too much and you'll get a failure cascade of people unsubscribing like you've never seen before.
Edit: on a more constructive note: in the future don't set release dates in stone. You like to use "Soon (tm)" a lot when referring to when a new feature comes out, the playerbase accepts that, but why on earth then throw that flexibility out of the window when it's time to do an actual expansion? Maybe you should try something like "expansion might be here in December, stay tuned", and work from there. God knows you guys have trouble keeping deadlines as it is.
Take it from a guy who's also a businessman: keeping your clients happy is mostly about managing expectations!!!
Maybe some of them forgets sometimes where the money comes from..
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Commander Ogir
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:23:00 -
[842]
When there was the first SC test, everything was fine. Why isnt it now anymore? Please let us understand what the problem with those Supercarriers is/was.
If it was too much FB damage - reduce the numbers of FBs possible on them, raise the bandwith-needs.
Is it because of the servers? I dont think so, because otherwise you wouldnt have lowered the price so more ppl can buy them which would even increase the server load for fighters(400x20 now against 2000x10 with proposed changes).
Just give us the SCs as they were originally intended! Please!
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N Ano
Caldari
SoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:26:00 -
[843]
Damn I feel sorry for ccp. They screwed up yes, but they brought one hell of a ****storm on themselves
Make the Beership a reality! |
Overlord Anubis
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:28:00 -
[844]
Can I purchase CCP Nozh's incompetence insurance?
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Riflektshon
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:29:00 -
[845]
Dear CCP,
Is anyone going to post any more info about all the above.
Or is that it you have said what your going to do and we all have to live with it?
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BCE 3AHRTO
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:31:00 -
[846]
Can someone who put Nozh in charge of caps post here so we can very civilly show them the error of their ways? We're not the monsters you've been led to believe! *puts on target painters for next mothership hotdrop*
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Eniy Oh
Gallente
United Systems Navy
Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:32:00 -
[847]
Navigator: thanks for at least showing you've deleted part of my post.
Though I'd like to state here that the first part of my post contained my expressed disgust about the fact posts are being deleted at all.
---
The one whose ship names don't pass the sanity test while the rest of him is rather sane |
Aphrodite Whiterose
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:34:00 -
[848]
Originally by: Vashan Tar
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 20/11/2009 01:03:43
Target Painters
***Do NOT Work***
on Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps
You do realise that with the constant contradicting statements that you have been releasing (two goddamn weeks before dominion is released), that you have completely lost any confidence people may have had that this expansion is not going to be a complete and utter abortion.
You then appear to have assigned a dev who has NO CLUE about capital warfare and what actually happens in nullsec (docking motherships? Target painting towers? I don't even fly a cap and know that this is up there with the charge of the light brigade in DUMB THINGS TO DO), who then completely invalidates all the previous testing and feedback that has been given on sisi on what appeared to be well thought out propsals for the long overdue capital rebalance that has been sorely needed.
Please take CCP Nozh off the capital team and put him on something where he's not going to (1) Expose his complete lack of knowledge about INTERNET SPACESHIPS (loltargetpainters) and (2) Won't cause icelands economy to tank (the second time) when you lose the only thing thats keeping it afloat, i.e your subscribers...............
Put him somewhere where he won't completely sabotage the hard work done by dev's that actually appear to know what they're talking about. World of Darkness would be a good choice.
L2P CCP!
How can we trust you to balance a game when you dont even know basic mechanics? Abathurs changes were good and what the community wanted and provided feedback for. To remove them by someone who doesnt know game mechanics or how to play and who ignores the players is just insulting.
Ive been letting my accounts expire over time down from 5 to 2 due to how inept you seem to be these days CCP. I have my mom and my main accounts left active and will be letting these expire when my time runs out next year after 5 and a half years of playing.
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Amarr - Playing EVE in Hardcore Mode since 2007 |
Eben Rochelle
Gallente
RPS holdings
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:36:00 -
[849]
Add one to the disgruntled threadnaught.
Seriously, the Sov changes are awful, the Cap changes are awful and as one of the cool kids i suppose i should mention loltarget painters.
Dreads are still completely pointless now that Tower (sov) seiges are out of the window. At least reduce the build costs ffs. Naglfar is still the red headed step child!
Sov changes?!?!?!? In 2 years this is the best you could come up with? Come on guys sort it out. This is "sketched on the back of a *** packet in the pub" stuff not 2 years of serious thought.
Moms, bleh.
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Fitz Chivalry
eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:41:00 -
[850]
Have I missed something or don't the vast majority of capital fights just get decided by whichever side hotdrops the other with 3x the number of caps the other side has so that its typically a complete whitewash vthat will not be changed whether a particular ship type has ten times as many hit points or not?
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Lothar Vimes
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:42:00 -
[851]
Good news everybody. JGE isn't that far away
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Aphrodite Whiterose
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:43:00 -
[852]
Sov changes: Lets make 0.0 more dynamic by making it take 36 hours to take a system from an enemy and you have to be present throughout that entire time. (excluding DTs ofc)
Does anyone actually think things through before implementing them anymore or do you just give a bunch of monkies a bucket full of changes and just go with whatever they pick out and throw against a wall?
-----------------------------------------------
Amarr - Playing EVE in Hardcore Mode since 2007 |
ITTigerClawIK
Amarr
Galactic Rangers
Galactic-Rangers
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:43:00 -
[853]
ok this is rediculus, i dont even use missiles but i could tlel you from the ofset that Target painters dont work starbases and structures, and whats with the sudden turn around on caps, we had some awesome changes that worked and then you went and mucked with them agian and make them worse than they already are, and remember, "If it works, it dont need fixing"
Sig space reclaimed in the name of me -courtesy of Tiggy ([email protected]) |
fuze
Gallente
Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:44:00 -
[854]
Guys, those junior devs clearly lack knowledge of changing game mechanics for caps. This needs to be resolved quickly by replacing them with a team of your recruited veteran players who do have a clue.
Give the moms higher resists for the Titan weapon so they can withstand about 10 volleys and give them those (nerfed)fighter bombers. Some moar <3 to naffies and voila. Might not be perfect but it's a good start.
Originally by: The Mittani
Where's the excellence?
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Misaki Yuuko
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:45:00 -
[855]
****ty post from a crapp dev.
Sky is falling.
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Iloni Atoriandra
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:46:00 -
[856]
Well it seems this expansion will be a truly well thought out New Game Experience (NGE), what could possibly go wrong?
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malet
Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:47:00 -
[857]
Seriously CCP what the hell!
You go ahead with the Titan buff and forget us mothership pilots again. How can you justify this. People who fly motherships fit the best they can to them, now you change the goalposts again. Unless you fit the best modules and I do mean the best ingame, you are gonna get popped by a couple of titans. So are we just supposed to swallow another year of sitting in POS shields not using these beasts!!!!!
Why no HP buff at least. Motherships will not be used on the capital battlefield until you fix this crap. So far all CCP NOZH has done is alienate the long term players that have worked hard for years to get motherships and now it`s yet another slap in the face for us.
Lets just hope a new MMorpg comes out soon. As you will end up driving people away with this rubbish patch!!
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T'Karr
Minmatar
Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:48:00 -
[858]
They have done a u-turn on the moms now.... which ironicaly has nerfed them more than they would have been....
Moms will be just as useless if they dont have the armour/shield buff and the fighter bombers... Dreads are being buffed up for close range, which gives mom pilots even less reason to use their motherships!
Come on CCP, grow some balls and release the mom patch, dont let the moaners stop you... The game will be MORE balanced with the mom patch.
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Venetian Tar
United Systems Navy
Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:50:00 -
[859]
Edited by: Venetian Tar on 20/11/2009 11:50:38
Originally by: Overlord Anubis
Can I purchase CCP Nozh's incompetence insurance?
Originally by: Eben Rochelle
Edited by: Eben Rochelle on 20/11/2009 11:37:17
Add one to the disgruntled threadnaught.
Seriously, the Sov changes are awful, the Cap changes are awful and as one of the cool kids i suppose i should mention loltarget painters.
Dreads are still completely pointless now that Tower (sov) seiges are out of the window. At least reduce the build costs ffs. Naglfar is still the red headed step child!
I agree here. I personally don't fly the Nag, but I was training an alt towards one thanks to the buff it had recently.
I guess I could always go back to the Moros... Oh wait... 
+1 to disgruntledness in this thread and with CCP.
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Herar Domain
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:52:00 -
[860]
Ok to sum that up:
1.Moms on SiS were epic and everbody loved them,I for my part worked like a machine to get my before dominion
>>>
2.Moms get nerved to a crappy ship even more useless than they are atm.
>>>
3.Mom improvment won't be done (within the next 6 months ) so a new pwnzr Titan DD can nearly oneshot my nyx.
>>>
4.All Mom pilots will be anyoned.
But wait I haven an real nice Idea!
What about giving Motherships a new name like errr Supercarrier?And give them the ability to launch 20 new Fightersized Drones which can kill other Caps.I call them Fighterstriker.Of course they need a HP buff as well let say about 15-20 mil effective Hit Points so I can field my moms errr supercarrier (great name isnt it?) without the possibility to die in 2-3Minutes of battle.
What do u guys think about my ideas?
Think they are quite genius...
but wait...waaait....Abathur made all this!Oh noes somebody was faster than me :(
Come on CCP.Take the old prenozhnerf Moms like Abi wanted to make them.Everybody loved them and u r fearings that there will be unstopable Supercarrier squads roaming amongst new eden are true,granted,but u won t , prevent that anyways.So pleaaaaaaaaaaase take Abathurs ideas nerv the Fighterbomber dmg a bit and set the explosion radius a bit higher (not so high like nozhnerf) but a bit.
Trust you r players we play the game every day and know what s going on and what we are missing in the game.
Herar
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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:53:00 -
[861]
Hey Nozh, are you going to quickly hack in some target painter that will be able to affect sieged capitals etc.?
Yeah, that would fit into all the other design approaches. No clear design documents, quick and dirty hacks, ignoring player feedback etc. And all only so that 'your' solution can work. How about taking a step back, eh?
There was TONS of player feedback on the test forums, WEEKS of productive work with CCP Abathur who has realy a lot of game experience and there was a solution which finally made everyone happy.
All wiped out by a guy who doesn't even know the most basic game mechanics and has no clue about capital warfare. A guy who bases his 'weapon balancing' around non-existing gameplay.
And CCP doesn't understand that this is outraging?
Oh, and still waiting for some numbers. Or do I need to go to the test server and lookup all the numbers myself? Then I don't need those blogs. The only number in the devblog is that the new siege cruise missile will have 1500 explosive radius. What speed they have? What damage, rof? Fitting properties of siege cruise missile launchers? How about titans? What damage they do? How many hp? Boni? Cooldown of DD? This devblog is total BS talk.
Next time please no completely unnecessary graphs, less nonsense talk and more solid numbers!
I really love Eve and hate it seeing going down like this
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Eric Starym
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:54:00 -
[862]
1) realized capital warfare needs a rework ... checked
2) having an idea where to go ... checked
3) applying it to test server and getting feedback ... checked
4) does it works ... checked
5) changing a running system ... checked
6) disregarding all previous feedback and testing from players ... checked
7) turning intended changes upside down ... checked
8) realizing what effects the changes have ... failed
9) having any clue about the relevant game mechanics ... failed
10) success of capital warfare rework .. FAILED
hint hint
The explosion velocity is slightly higher than that of the Citadel Cruise Missiles (or 2250) which means target painters will have to be utilized in many situations to achieve full damage potential.
If you got no clue, it is better to just keep the mouth shut. Every child learns that while talking with matures.
Listen, think, think again, press push to talk button, talk, rethink what you said...pretty basic stuff tbh
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Kaeser
Caldari
DEATHFUNK
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:57:00 -
[863]
For goodness sake please take Nozh away from anything to do with this game.
Bring on the mothership changes as they were originally succesfully suggested by Abarthur and tested by the players with great acclaim.
Bring on the AF buff as it seemed to be well received and gave a proper role to these ships.
Don't undo the popular changes you have previously made to the NAgalfar, the players do not want the proposed new changes !
Seeing a pattern here CCP ?
Please listen to your players and think about what you're doing before you put the knife in once and for all.
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NathanMoore
Cataclysm Enterprises
Ev0ke
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Posted - 2009.11.20 11:59:00 -
[864]
Edited by: NathanMoore on 20/11/2009 12:00:05
Originally by: Crimsonjade
Edited by: Crimsonjade on 20/11/2009 00:20:12
I would like to know and the entire Mothership community would like to know why ABATHUR's ideas were shelved. We know you dont want to discuss it on the forums. but at least do what you used to and explain it.
Could we please get some more in depth explanations what (the hell) you are doing with the Capitals? I really can't see a clear line of what you try to achieve with those modifications, the whole changes after Abathur disapeered from the Forums seem like one hell of a mess.
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GPFS
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Posted - 2009.11.20 12:02:00 -
[865]
Originally by: NathanMoore
Edited by: NathanMoore on 20/11/2009 12:00:05
Originally by: Crimsonjade
Edited by: Crimsonjade on 20/11/2009 00:20:12
I would like to know and the entire Mothership community would like to know why ABATHUR's ideas were shelved. We know you dont want to discuss it on the forums. but at least do what you used to and explain it.
Could we please get some more in depth explanations what (the hell) you are doing with the Capitals? I really can't see a clear line of what you try to achieve with those modifications, the whole changes after Abathur disapeered from the Forums seem like one hell of a mess.
I doubt they have any idea, what they are doing...
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Ne0tr0n
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 12:05:00 -
[866]
this is the most supid bull**** i've ever read!
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Iloni Atoriandra
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.20 12:05:00 -
[867]
Put Abathur in charge of all of these and sack Nozh or move him to mining or something since he clearly knows nothing about pvp or combat mechanics. I think by now he must be the most hated person at CCP, from a marketing prospective it would be such a positive step to fire him CCP.
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Fylin Manslayer
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Posted - 2009.11.20 12:11:00 -
[868]
These changes are pretty much terrible....my mothership remains only useful for random hot drops....but now it can be killed instantly if there is an enemy titan around.
It is a real shame that you are pushing a lot of people (not even super cap pilots) to the edge of their patience. Many people are cancelling their alts and some their mains too until things are resolved.
What is the point in me keeping the ship for moving and to hide in a pos?
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Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2009.11.20 12:13:00 -
[869]
Originally by: "CCP EpicTard"
The explosion velocity is slightly higher than that of the Citadel Cruise Missiles (or 2250) which means target painters will have to be utilized in many situations to achieve full damage potential.
Too bad you can't paint the natural target for dreds, other dreads or supercaps...
--
081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner
blog |
Hurricane Carter
0ccam's Razor
Varangians.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 12:13:00 -
[870]
2 things:
At this point:
- Delay dominion, do it proper or go home (T3 friggies also plz)
- Someone at CCP go and slap Nozh with a trout (and gief HD Youtube link)
't is all
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Loco Eve
State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.11.20 12:14:00 -
[871]
Originally by: Eniy Oh
Navigator: thanks for at least showing you've deleted part of my post.
Though I'd like to state here that the first part of my post contained my expressed disgust about the fact posts are being deleted at all.
LOL, freedoom of speach doesn't not apply to ccp forom threads.
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Doc Imp
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 12:15:00 -
[872]
Well I'm happy with the changes, now my bellicose will have a place in fleet warfare! With my uber painting bonus I can help my cap buddies do full damage to anything bigger than a moon that isn't moving. Target painters do work on most capitals, right?
Let me use my great understanding of humans to help you understand why there may be some player anger.
You disregarded everything that was worked on and talked about.
You gave absolutely no real information why you did this.
You made capricious and arbitrary statements calling your knowledge on the topic you claim to know about into serious doubt. You did this repeatedly in fact. (we'll just let moms dock, use target painters you scrubs)
You unleashed the moderators to bury the dissent and natural reaction of your players who thought they had an understanding with you about the direction this was going.
You stopped talking, and have offered nothing more on the topic.
I don't fly caps nor do I ever plan to however anyone watching a group get bent over like this and saying "HAHA!" is just fooling themselves. At some point if you tolerate this kind of abuse they will come around to look at your pet issue and apply the same level of ineptitude. I mean granted it is cccp, you could be dead before they get to your particular issue but just let me have my point here ok?
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Zaiyo Modi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.20 12:15:00 -
[873]
What a bull**** blog. The author actually do sound abit like Funcom's Geir.
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Joe Goon
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 12:18:00 -
[874]
Claiming page 26 sniper.
Shouldn't take more than half an hour before this post is accurate.
Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses
____/
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ |
Lana's Alt
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.11.20 12:22:00 -
[875]
OK.. So what did we test again??
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Astal Atlar
Caldari
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 12:24:00 -
[876]
So actually now ccp heard,the players words,and infact choose the way of less opposal denying to do anything leaving the ms useless as ****.
So no ms and titans on grid in caps battles we will hit each other with dreads and cariers.
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Alex PHA
Gallente
The Circle
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.20 12:24:00 -
[877]
Guys sign the petition to remove Nozh
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1217355
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Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.11.20 12:25:00 -
[878]
Originally by: Battle Tested
On a serious note....How can you, after admitting the mothership was broken in today's capital warfare, go back to it's original stats? How can you sit back and let people go into mass production after the well accepted and playerbase approved CCP Abathur changes to only change them to crap and then back to worse crap? Then, upon our dissaproval tell us we can't express our feelings of how you deceived us and how you are ruining the game that we have invested so much time and money into. This is bull****, straight up bull****. Just like SGE...EVE will be a thing of the past, and there is no fixing it once you push away your customers.
I will continually spam this until there is a legitimate response from someon in CCP who has some kind of idea of WTF is going on!! |
Overlord Anubis
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 12:32:00 -
[879]
Edited by: Overlord Anubis on 20/11/2009 12:34:32
CCP you guys should be in the Obama administration with how youÆre planning sweeping changes to the economy to make people move to other income faucets, by in essence nerfing their current one(s). Keep in mind historically when you try to do changes like this it never works out like you expected.
Here is one example:
"noone will ever need more than 640k" or CCP " we did not think more than a few titans would ever be built"
DO NOT MAKE massive, broad changes to multiple income generating paths all at once. Dropping the prices on Motherships along with the market dynamics and resulting secondary effects of your changes could lead to an economic depression in EVE.
I seriously believe you do not want to keep 0.0 as an extremely profitable lure to empire corps. YouÆre replacing passive income sources in 0.0 with extremely effort intensive income sources. This is going to backfire. You need to make 0.0 extremely profitable not only with ratting, and other kill related skills, but industry skills. Massive ark? I see nerfed high-end zyd / mega prices.
Want to open 0.0 to empire, your new sov system helps but you keep making changes to income streams. With every blog you seem to shift the 0.0 income to effort income. No one, Yeah that will lure people in, - the :effort: vs. reward income generation with all of the changes is close to making 0.0 income more of a job than a game.
I humbly tell you if you do not wish to totally ****ing up the fish bowl that is eve, you need to do a few changes at a time over a month or two for example. Otherwise I guarantee you do not know the ramifications nor do I bargain most people it will have. Stop taking lessons from president Obama and his falling polices. meddling in every sector of the free market at once is a screw you to people that have been specializing their characters for years to do what they are doing now in addition to months if not years developing their business. In one patch the mineral market, moon market, ice market, capital ship market, etc. are going too effected.
If you are trying to ruin your game by doing things to manipulate market and professions then you are doing a pro job.
|
Battle Tested
Shiva
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 12:39:00 -
[880]
Moderation discussion removed. StevieSG.
On a serious note....How can you, after admitting the mothership was broken in today's capital warfare, go back to it's original stats? How can you sit back and let people go into mass production after the well accepted and playerbase approved CCP Abathur changes to only change them to crap and then back to worse crap? Then, upon our dissaproval tell us we can't express our feelings of how you deceived us and how you are ruining the game that we have invested so much time and money into. This is bull****, straight up bull****. Just like SGE...EVE will be a thing of the past, and there is no fixing it once you push away your customers. |
|
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Taeraki
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 12:39:00 -
[881]
Edited by: Taeraki on 20/11/2009 12:39:22
Regardless of whether the changes are good, bad or mediocre - why are this being announced two weeks before launch, after a heap of testing?
That's rubbish community management at the very least and doesn't inspire those of us new to the game to make anything beyond short term targets.
As for deleting posts - again, great way to support your player base. |
5econdary Target
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 12:39:00 -
[882]
Once I saw CCP Nozh`s main with his Golem TPing Chribbas`s Veldnaught in Amarr , true story.
|
McEivalley
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 12:44:00 -
[883]
Originally by: THEGREAT LOBO
Originally by: MirrorGod
1. Nozh should be moved away from capital portfolio
2. Nozh doesn't seem to know how target painters work
3. Nozh doesn't know how cap fights work
4. abathur's supercapitals, the ones the players tested and approved should be the ones implemented
Would like to add to the above
5.Nozh doesn't seem to know how many of the mechanics in eve works.
6.Nozh should leave the nag alone and stop giving minnie pilots more weapons systems to train for.
For min capitals, You need to train: Capital armour mods, Capital shield mods, Capital proj, citadel torpedoes and now the capital cruise missle weapons.. And what do we get for all this training? The worst damage dreadnuaght.
Look, this is not entirely true. If you would've read Nozh's blog instead of just copycatting everyone around, you would notice there, in those nice graphs, is this area of falloff where you comparatively speaking do more damage.
So before you siege, just MWD(?) there and laugh at all the other caps that stay stuck so close to their targets(??) and get hellfire for their worth(?!?)... oh wait!
Insert clever remark where? |
Mystic Morpher
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 12:50:00 -
[884]
This is a good patch, thank you CCP Nozh.
|
Xrat
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 12:50:00 -
[885]
ccp would you be so nice and give us at least the ability to dock, so we can let our moms rot in station instead of letting our chars rot in our moms, thanks. |
Capot
Lyonesse.
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 12:52:00 -
[886]
Quote:
For min capitals, You need to train: Capital armour mods, Capital shield mods, Capital proj, citadel torpedoes and now the capital cruise missle weapons.. And what do we get for all this training? The worst damage dreadnuaght.
this
|
T'Karr
Minmatar
Quam Singulari
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 12:55:00 -
[887]
CCP... REPLACE NOZH WITH ME, I HAVE SENT MY APPLICATION TO YOU. I WILL FIX THIS AND GAIN THE TRUST OF THE COMMUNITY BY BEFRIENDING CCP ABATHUR AND REINSTATING HIS PREVIOUS EXCELLENT WORK!!!
|
Vir Hellnamin
Gradient
Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 12:57:00 -
[888]
"Due to the changes made to XL Turrets, Citadel Missiles/Torpedoes and projectile turrets, the Naglfar became an absolute monster, not in a good way. The weapon bonuses on the Naglfar had to be adjusted to keep the balance intact. "
So, why not tune down XL missiles and balance Phoenix/birdie-Titan with bonuses, and leave the Tempest-Naglfar intact with the double-bonus on guns (or even tune Nagl down to +5%/+5% or something...)?
Yes, sorry, I've prolly missed the explanation given in some of the 100-page threads in Test Issues forums.
--
"Entering MH means instant death. It's worse than 0.0. Even the asteroids shoot back." - Alex Harumichi [GRD]
|
Tharrn
Amarr
Epitoth Guard
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:02:00 -
[889]
*hugs Nozh and guides the sobbing wreck out of the bathroom corner he is hiding in*
Thank god I fly Amarr only.
-----
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Overlord Anubis
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:06:00 -
[890]
These new changes to eve smell of socialism. Why not just tax the rich plays and give the income to the new players.
|
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Overlord Anubis
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:08:00 -
[891]
We were all new players and paid our dues. We worked hard to make isk and move up the isk generating food chain. If you do not have high profit top level opportunities in each profession, what is the lure to stay in eve and spend 18 months striving to reach that goal.
|
Battle Tested
Shiva
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:09:00 -
[892]
Originally by: Overlord Anubis
These new changes to eve smell of socialism. Why not just tax the rich plays and give the income to the new players.
Don't tempt them....It won't be long and trial accounts will probably be carrier/dread capable at the rate they are going with trying to recruit new subscribers. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:09:00 -
[893]
Hey Nozh:
Go back to WoW
|
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:09:00 -
[894]
1. Fix missile damage formula, so explosion radius is a non-factor on stationary targets ( Hint; like it works for turrets ).
2. Adjust all explosion radius to be equal to the turret signature radius of their turret counterpart.
3. Adjust missile damage to reflect changes in #1 & #2.
4. Adjust explosion velocity to match the damage reduction formula for XL turrets ( Hint; an explosion radius lower than what a turret can track without problems is wrong ).
5. ???
6. Profit.
|
Creed Demastikus
Thundercats
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:10:00 -
[895]
cmonnn why are u bothering yourself ppl.. they never did say "we listen our customers (side not even if they said that.. they meant "we will listen but nothing goin to change.. so u can talk as much as u want :]) / our players most important thing / players decide important things / CSM there to help us connection with player base" it was some other firm.. not CCP.. they are godlike creatures they decide our fate.. what will happen and how.. and u ppl cant see even that? tsk tsk..
what now u need usefull dreads ? /go for uselesss naglfarr..
usefull motherships / supperfailcarriers ?
usefull titans ?
what we need : a ****** "carebear friendly" sov system...
motherships which dies in single if not second shot by titans..
dreads cant even shoot anything / even worse somedreads need 39058349583 skills and even so cant do a ****. like naglfar..
i'm just wondering whats coming next ? i'm sure those godlike devs can create better ideas for killing eve.. i'm totaly sure of it..
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Mantra Achura
Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:10:00 -
[896]
One of your first dev blogs stated correctly, MS are rarely fielded in cap fights due to riskiness loosing one against a bunch of dreads.
Quote:
[...]
Motherships no more...
Perhaps no ships in EVE symbolize the majesty of the game more than the Nyx, Wyvern, Aeon and Hel. Featured in dozens of player-made movies, official trailers and screenshots, it is a sad testimony that their presence has not been a factor on the capital battlefields of EVE for quite some time. The simple fact is that this class of ship now stays mostly parked on trained alts and is rarely used as they are nothing more than expensive targets for hungry legions of Dread pilots.
[...]
Source: http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=696
The draft boosting MS EHP was a great step in the right direction. Especially with the intruduced death ray this adjustment is highly appreciated. For a price of 15 bill that's not absurd.
Also granting and an additional boost on damage by the Fighter Bombers concept the MS was greatly brought into a new role of capital fight support. The balancing of this kind of weapon sounds ok to me. Compared to the death ray, Fighter Bombers need some time to reach the target and start shooting. So there is a plenty time to react and start some RR or SB. Also Fighter Bombers are able to be shot by sub caps.
Sadly within the last days things were going crazy.
The whoole concept turned upside down:
- Decreasing construction costs isn't a good idea. If you want more performance, you have to pay for it.
- Docking a MS isn't a good idea. Such kind of ship still needs its typical super cap disadvantages. Otherwise everybody would fly one. Why should I fly Carrier instead?
Fazit:
The original super carrier draft wasn't this bad.
At least the EHP boost should be implemented, otherwise you would more likely see the MS abandon the field.
Mantra
|
Tappits
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:11:00 -
[897]
Originally by: Overlord Anubis
We were all new players and paid our dues. We worked hard to make isk and move up the isk generating food chain. If you do not have high profit top level opportunities in each profession, what is the lure to stay in eve and spend 18 months striving to reach that goal.
Don't you mean 18 to 72 months?
you do know you can GTC isk and skill for a dread in less than 12 months :)
o and ٩๏̯͡๏)۶
----------------------------------------------
Pro BOB?????
I fail At forums |
Arra Lith
HUSARIA
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:16:00 -
[898]
Edited by: Arra Lith on 20/11/2009 13:18:01
Press headline:
Some Jove Empire citizens has been succesfully converted to Amarr Faith. You can expect huge love for Amarr technology and Jovian's wraith for all other races techs.
First heavy blow to Caldari and Minmatar heretics dealt.
Gallente Moros somehow escaped full wraith, only with slightly wound, but that will be fixed soon...
Amarr Victor.
|
Ragel Tropxe
DEATHFUNK
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:17:00 -
[899]
the proposed changes to the Naglfar and capital missiles are nothing short of a disgrace.
The fact that the guy tasked to balance them thinks that a target painter is the answer is staggering beyond belief.
how did we get here?
CCP - lets remove Titan DD
CCP - lets make Titans wtf pwn mobiles with lots o'guns
CCP - Hmm that makes the new Titans too effective - what to do?
CCP - I know lets nerf the Titans AND amend capital guns
CCP - Hmm Capital guns seem to need balance
CCP - Nerf Naglfar - but they can use target painters on ew-immune structure/ ships!!
players - erm wtf?
You do realise that youre in a "screw-up" cycle dont you? You're making changes on the hoof which then cause other problems which you then change - whihc causes more balance issues.
Just STOP - pull ALL the capital changes and sit down with someone who knows what the heck they are doing and spend some time planning stuff. As it stands now this is a trainwreck waiting to happen.
(ps notice Ive not even gone near the Mothership debacle)
|
Delc
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:18:00 -
[900]
Hey look.... I can see the future! EvE is comming to an End very soon. ******s are now running CCP.
[center]
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T'Karr
Minmatar
Quam Singulari
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:19:00 -
[901]
Originally by: Joe Goon
Dear CCP,
You'd probably have a lot more constructive posts if some of you guys would actually reply in this thread and move the discussion forward. It'd probably take less time than deleting the "unconstructive" ones. This is called a "dialog" and requires more than one party. If you don't actually want to discuss what you post in your blogs, why do you even bother opening threads about them?
At the very least a post from Nozh (OK, a new blog would be better because it really would be like marching him out into a firing squad right now) detailing exactly what he thought was wrong with Abathur's implementation and needed fixing in the first place. This would give us a basis to further the discussion.
Please take that on board. Now I'm going to wait an hour or so, and when I realise that I'm writing reasonably and calmly for an audience that doesn't exist, I'm going to come back to this thread and do the posting equivalent of taking a gigantic **** on the floor.
Thanks for reading, CCP.
I hope.
THIS
|
Eniy Oh
Gallente
United Systems Navy
Zenith Affinity
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:22:00 -
[902]
CCP,
a word of advice. Besides appointing forum staff that seems to do nothing else than delete real critique leveled at you, consider hiring some COMMUNICATION EXPERTS whose sole task will be to read the forums and reply to them with as much as openness as possible.
You may think we're angry because we don't like the proposed changes.
You may think this our anger is of a typical pattern that happens every time around the release of an expansion.
You may think there's nothing you can do to stop this pattern.
I can tell you this is not true.
You need to engage in MEANINGFUL DIALOGUE with your player base.
You need not think that we can't help you improve this game.
You need not think that we will always attack you for your proposed changes.
You just need to remember that being ignored, lied to, marginalized...
Is exactly what caused Star Wars Galaxies to fail!
Take this seriously, or you will fail too!
Originally by: Doc Imp
Well I'm happy with the changes, now my bellicose will have a place in fleet warfare! With my uber painting bonus I can help my cap buddies do full damage to anything bigger than a moon that isn't moving. Target painters do work on most capitals, right?
Let me use my great understanding of humans to help you understand why there may be some player anger.
You disregarded everything that was worked on and talked about.
You gave absolutely no real information why you did this.
You made capricious and arbitrary statements calling your knowledge on the topic you claim to know about into serious doubt. You did this repeatedly in fact. (we'll just let moms dock, use target painters you scrubs)
You unleashed the moderators to bury the dissent and natural reaction of your players who thought they had an understanding with you about the direction this was going.
You stopped talking, and have offered nothing more on the topic.
Quoting for truth.
Originally by: Loco Eve
Originally by: Eniy Oh
Navigator: thanks for at least showing you've deleted part of my post.
Though I'd like to state here that the first part of my post contained my expressed disgust about the fact posts are being deleted at all.
LOL, freedoom of speach doesn't not apply to ccp forom threads.
Quoting because this is proof you've engaged into censorship, a very despicable act which WILL backfire on you. I'm not your only victim.
Originally by: mkmin
Dear CCP:
The last time I've knowingly bought anything made by Sony(R) was Star Wars Galaxies{TM} around launch. "Threadnaughts" with little to no dev response was the primary reason I got out of SWG{TM} several months before it failed. I saw it as a sign of the devs caring more about the fantasies in their heads than the realities of what had been created. I felt that I, a paying customer, took a back seat. I regret having not gotten out of SWG(TM) a few months earlier than I did, especially because it turned out I was right.
With Dominion I'm seeing plenty of SOE syndrome. If it's not corrected, I won't expect EVE to survive another year. If you let EVE die, I would advise you not to expect any repeat business. I don't believe Dust or any further CCP products will stand on it's own without the current EVE player base supporting it. If you don't support them I don't see why they'd support you.
For now, my skill plan has less than 2 months in it. In the mean time I'm going to continue to watch for traces of SOE syndrome. Considering I only feel there's about a 30% chance of this post not getting deleted, I'm less than optimistic about EVE and CCP's future, and even less optimistic about my place in it.
Quoting because this sums up pretty nicely what most of us are feeling...
CCP,
This is not the nth treadnought.
This is not "the same whining as with every nerf"
What you're seeing here is all EVE players of ALL different corps and alliances are UNITING.
CCP,
we are united here to tell you, that YOU need to LISTEN.
Listen,
before it's too late.
---
The one whose ship names don't pass the sanity test while the rest of him is rather sane |
Julio Torres
Phantom Squad
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:23:00 -
[903]
How about Titans?
Would be only fair to cancel the horrible changes to them as well.
|
Battle Tested
Shiva
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:25:00 -
[904]
You know if fighterbomber lag is the whole issue because of the graphics lag it causes when exploding, why not just remove the graphics from them? they would still do correct dps (if you fix the explosion radius and explosion velocity) and no lag caused from it. Give them the HP boost as all agreed on, no docking (if you must make it an expensive outpost upgrade that has a docking/undocking timer for supercarrier/motherships), and make them original build cost/requirements minus the clone vat bay. How difficult is this to fathom? You are removing a ship that upon its original release was a ship that many oooh'd and ahhhh'd over and planned on getting, to some is it like the endgame, an achievement to be proud of. To others it is a symbol of strength and superiority much like the American Nimitz class carriers of today's Navy. How difficult is it to agree on proposed changes to a ship that you yourselves at CCP have agreed is broken in today's capital fleet battles? You were looking in the right direction with Abathur's proposed and tested release. If the fighterbombers are broken, dont just throw it all away and make us that have invested so much time and isk into the mothership a total waste. We all want to see these ships have a proper use on the battlefield. If the fighterbombers are broken then scrap them, dont scrap the mothership. Create a new SuperFighter or something that doesnt use torpedoes/missiles, just give them enhanced guns that you can easily code to acceptable levels of dps. |
Soldur
Helljumpers
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:26:00 -
[905]
what a piece of $HIT patch is anything good auctually happening anymore with this patch. I guess its just the changes to pirate battleships....meh lets change the ships that get flown the least and screw the ones that get used all the time...I'm so confused
|
Predator Irl
Caldari
Ultrapolite Socialites
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:27:00 -
[906]
What happened to Seleene? Things were looking good until this new scrub came along!
|
Venetian Tar
United Systems Navy
Zenith Affinity
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:28:00 -
[907]
Originally by: Julio Torres
How about Titans?
Would be only fair to cancel the horrible changes to them as well.
Not really, I think people are agreeing that Titan changes are ok (Yeah, don't flame me if I'm wrong on that point)
It seems most of the rage is at Supercarriers and the Naglfar changes.
Censorship only shows we are right, by the way. They don't like what we're saying, and they never will because they know we are right.
If this post gets nuked, and I get banned. I love you guys. Even the Atlas guys, in a weird form. |
Black Munkie
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:29:00 -
[908]
Nice! Just as CCP look like they are getting their **** together, they go and pull this ****. I know, lets just break Eve, 0.0 and give it all to the carebears!
|
T'Karr
Minmatar
Quam Singulari
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:29:00 -
[909]
Dreads
Own
Moms
If
Nozh
Isnt
Overturned
Now
|
Julio Torres
Phantom Squad
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:33:00 -
[910]
Originally by: Venetian Tar
Originally by: Julio Torres
How about Titans?
Would be only fair to cancel the horrible changes to them as well.
Not really, I think people are agreeing that Titan changes are ok (Yeah, don't flame me if I'm wrong on that point)
It seems most of the rage is at Supercarriers and the Naglfar changes.
Censorship only shows we are right, by the way. They don't like what we're saying, and they never will because they know we are right.
If this post gets nuked, and I get banned. I love you guys. Even the Atlas guys, in a weird form.
The way Titans currently are. We have 2 roles
1) Mobile Stargate
2) Cynogen Jump Freighter/Rorqual Gank-mobile
There is no incentive to put us on the battlefield.
We are just a even bigger liability now. Like what moms are today.
|
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Venetian Tar
United Systems Navy
Zenith Affinity
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:36:00 -
[911]
Originally by: Julio Torres
The way Titans currently are. We have 2 roles
1) Mobile Stargate
2) Cynogen Jump Freighter/Rorqual Gank-mobile
There is no incentive to put us on the battlefield.
We are just a even bigger liability now. Like what moms are today.
What would your ideas be to change the current Titan system then?
So is everyone in agreement that Titans also suck?
Christ, CCP. You've really screwed up this time... |
Aequitas Veritas
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:37:00 -
[912]
Titans arent fine with their current damage, since there is no reason to keep them on the field when they only do the damage of one dread... Remember that they get 500% total bonus to guns on 6 guns. While a dread has 3 guns, rof/dmg bonus and damage mods and 625% bonus to damage from siege module. Titans will continue to be sitting at poses doing nothing but bridge ppl about...
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
|
Severion Atarkos
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:38:00 -
[913]
Edited by: Severion Atarkos on 20/11/2009 13:39:33
Edited by: Severion Atarkos on 20/11/2009 13:39:09
Edited by: Severion Atarkos on 20/11/2009 13:38:16
Originally by: Eniy Oh
Edited by: Eniy Oh on 20/11/2009 07:53:13
Quote:
Admit your mistakes and DELAY DOMINION. Do not let stubborn pride force you to rush out an obviously unfinished expansion just to meet an arbitrary deadline.
Why oh why would you put someone in charge of ships they know nothing about CCP? You need to remember something...we are your customers and you have been falsy advertising an expansion for months and all of a sudden decide moms/titans aren't supposed to be worth the risk anymore? WTF is wrong with you?
WE DESERVE AN ANSWER FROM A SENIOR CCP MEMBER NOT THIS ****** WHO IS GOING TO DRIVE AWAY YOUR CUSTOMERS AND PUT EVE THE SAME ROUTE SWG WENT
|
Battle Tested
Shiva
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:42:00 -
[914]
Originally by: Severion Atarkos
WE DEMAND AN ANSWER FROM A SENIOR CCP MEMBER NOT THIS ****** WHO IS GOING TO DRIVE AWAY YOUR CUSTOMERS AND PUT EVE THE SAME ROUTE SWG WENT
fixed |
Ejderdisi
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:43:00 -
[915]
To fix moms and keep them with their bombers and HP just remove RR capabilities. RR on a EW resistant ship which can kill dreads and make perfect combo with titans are game breaking
|
Tharrn
Amarr
Epitoth Guard
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:44:00 -
[916]
On a more serious note I guess they need to be given some time to scratch their heads, have some meetings and decide what to say/do.
It's what people here say they expect: a plan. And formulating a plan might take some time. I'd wager they got the message that people are unhappy.
Maybe I am just naive though :P
-----
|
Lord Milton
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:44:00 -
[917]
Edited by: Lord Milton on 20/11/2009 13:44:11
buttes
|
Soldur
Helljumpers
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:45:00 -
[918]
Edited by: Soldur on 20/11/2009 13:45:46
Originally by: Battle Tested
Originally by: Severion Atarkos
[size=8]WE DEMAND AN ANSWER FROM A SENIOR CCP MEMBER NOT THIS ****** WHO IS GOING TO DRIVE AWAY YOUR CUSTOMERS AND PUT EVE THE SAME ROUTE SWG WENT[/size=8]
fixed
quoted cause this is some big text
|
Julio Torres
Phantom Squad
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:46:00 -
[919]
Originally by: Venetian Tar
Originally by: Julio Torres
The way Titans currently are. We have 2 roles
1) Mobile Stargate
2) Cynogen Jump Freighter/Rorqual Gank-mobile
There is no incentive to put us on the battlefield.
We are just a even bigger liability now. Like what moms are today.
What would your ideas be to change the current Titan system then?
So is everyone in agreement that Titans also suck?
Christ, CCP. You've really screwed up this time...
De-nanofy Titans.
Its all about Risk vs Reward, currently deploying a Titan has no risk.
|
T'Karr
Minmatar
Quam Singulari
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:46:00 -
[920]
Edited by: T''Karr on 20/11/2009 13:47:21
CCP... when are you going to start replying to us, its making us more frustrated.
This complete U-Turn is starting to cause a lot of unrest and the community are getting sick of their posts being deleted just because they are "passionate" should we say...
If we start getting responses then we will start getting more constructive if we can actually move this forward.
At the end of the day, 95% of people on this thread want the Abathur changes.... They were amazing and kept the faith in CCP creating amazing expansions.....
If Nozh's ideas are put through then cap warfare will be worsened. Motherships will have longer to wait for a ship that they can actually use. And the community will lose faith in what we all hoped would be the best expansion to date... good luck trying to rectify this "mistake" and satisfying the community. But you have to overturn this change... its just not acceptable, the manner it was imposed and the way that it was delivered to us.
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Mioelnir
Minmatar
Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:47:00 -
[921]
Oh, and, something I missed earlier when I made that rather long math posting about a better adaption of the Naglfar.
Nozh, in your graph, you have the base weapon dps of the Quad 3500mm Artillery on TQ shown in the graph at roughly 35 DPS.
Going with the highest damage ammo available on TQ, EMP XL, we get 88 damage * 12.075 / 35.44 seconds = 29.98 damage/second.
Now, I am hesitant to ask, but could the fact that in your calculations the Naglfar became such a monster be attributed to the fact that your base numbers were off by the slight margin of +16.7%? Because there really is no way that a Quad 3500mm Artillery achieves a base performance of 35 DPS on Tranquility.
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STRICKERO
Les chevaliers de l'ordre
Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:48:00 -
[922]
Dear CCP,
Since it seem you dont know "what to do" with titans, here is a tips : why not giving titan class ship a capital command ship role ?
Just give titan a huge command bonus, like a 20% bonus to effectiveness of gang links command modules per titan skill level. So, it give titan a real job in fleet, and a reason to bring such an expensive ship onto the battlefield and stay !
In order to do so, you'll have to reduce their gun / missiles slot numbers, so the command modules and titan module can be fitted without using guns slot. In the end, it will be something like : 4 guns / missiles, 1 dd, 1 jpg, 2 command modules. You can, at your convenience, re-adjust the damage bonus a bit if that matter to you, i dont care to be honest.
However, what i care, like most titans pilots, is that we dont want to fly "the ultimate Pwn mobile" ship, nor be "useless". We want to be able to come on the field, straight into the middle of a fight, and be USEFULL !
-------------------------------
"Success is never final. Failure is never fatal. It is courage that counts."
-- Winston Churchill |
Zeveron
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:51:00 -
[923]
Edited by: Zeveron on 20/11/2009 13:51:59
Quote:
What would your ideas be to change the current Titan system then?
Stick with the initial changes seleene suggested.
If the 5 min rof on DD is to much, give the titans back their AoE and force them to stay on the field after they fired the DD. Give them the capital weapons bonus and the hp boost though.
Multiple titan fire fixed.
Great battles to kill titans will occur.
As for the MSs, the initial implementation was just fine.
________________________________________________
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Nye Jaran
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:53:00 -
[924]
Thank you for postponing some of the proposed changes in order to further develop and refine them.
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Ookami Omoi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:53:00 -
[925]
before we start i'm in a corp that lives in high sec, we don't have any moms or dreads got a few carriers.
i think you should all be greatfull for having ccp nozh, here is a dev that is changing the game and it machanics with tp that will will work on pos and super capitals, he know that we never have capital fights that are right on top of one and other no we alway use range and dreads never have to fight bs. we should all worship this dev he is the greatest dev we have i mean think about it he change the ms and when everyone told him it was no good he just removed all changes. he kind of reminds me of the eric cartmen from southpark "screw you guys i'm going home" when he didn't get his way.
the changes that where on sisi before he touched them for moms where fine, ccp should deploy dominion with them and also change the dreads back as most dread fight at point blank range when fighting other capitals.
also i don't blame nozh's on his own on these changes i blame ccp as a whole they could have said to him no look the players are happy lets put it in then nerf it if need be but no the backed his changes over the ones that the players spent time testing
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Jack Gilligan
THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:57:00 -
[926]
Looks like I definitely picked the right month to decide to quit EVE. All the signs are there that this game is being developed in an incompetent SOE like manner and it's being NGE'd ahead of this "konsole kiddz" addition of Dust514.
We have a developer in charge of revamping capital ships who clearly has not only never flown one in a fight, but has never SEEN one in a fight. The statement that capital fights rarely happen at close range proves it. EVERY cap fight happens at close range!
And to add a suggestion that people use target painters on ships that are immune to all electronic warfare (titans, moms, and sieges dreads) as a way to mitigate a nerf to capital weapons just puts the icing on the cake.
Clearly this game is moving in a direction that is not good. So I am removing my support from it to the tune of 4 subscriptions until at the very least this Nozh idiot is removed and replaced in his capacity with someone with one iota of clue.
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Elphy
Minmatar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 14:00:00 -
[927]
Edited by: Elphy on 20/11/2009 14:00:35
Originally by: Yet another angry customer
WE DEMAND AN ANSWER FROM A SENIOR CCP MEMBER NOT THIS ****** WHO IS GOING TO DRIVE AWAY YOUR CUSTOMERS AND PUT EVE THE SAME ROUTE SWG WENT
not empty-quoting - this chap has a valid point
What? |
Spiffing1
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 14:07:00 -
[928]
Another "Hilarious Forum Troll from CCP"
Well done, you've had your laughs, now tell us you were joking and we can all go back to what we were doing
WTB Response from a dev ASAP
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Indigo Johnson
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 14:13:00 -
[929]
WTB CCP reply, pwetty please
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Pedron Niaal
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 14:13:00 -
[930]
If motherships dont get the HP change, they will NOT be used till you bring out a patch that brings them into line with the other capitals.
The Titanss new designed doomsday weapon is not at all balanced versus the Weak effective Hitpoints stats of motherships.
The dreadnoughts new weapons are in no way balanced, (im not a fan of caldari or missiles but their range is WAY below guns, so they have no real reason to fly these ships into combat as a battleship can hit further)
The tracking means that titans are not able to hit battleships, which it should (its a huge combat/logistic station) nor will it be very effective in doing anything but the casual 10 minute drive by doomsday... (like it is now just with 1 dead target).
the close range weapon systems are still a joke and the naglfar is nerfed to death after being useless for years, and some short months of glory. thanks ccp for still not knowing whats good...
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underwoodr
Caldari
Burning Technologies
Circle-Of-Two
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 14:23:00 -
[931]
Clearly this dev thinks cap fights are people using caps lock in local.
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Kalain ap'Sulen
Amarr
Dirt Nap Squad
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 14:24:00 -
[932]
I think that it can be easily understood that the majority of those that will be affected by the changes think they are, and I'm dumbing it down for those of us that don't want a masters degree in debate, are crap. I think it can also be stated that the players were given access to toys in SiSi, feel in love with them and now they are (and with fair reason) ****ed off because they are now either being altered to where they are no longer recognizable they are being removed from the game for the foreseeable future.
I think that those in the upper tier management for CCP needs of to listen to the complaints of not only the people they are wanting to make (or force) these changes on as these are players that have been loyalist (while not entirely to CCP) to the EVE Universe and will lay out the vast majority of the public opinion that will follow Dominion.
Quite frankly however, you can blame no one but yourselves in allowing paying customers to be your test subjects in the SiSi Server. I think that SiSi is a terrible idea and one that should not be open to the EVE public. Testing is just that..testing. However, when you hand a player something they think will be just the beeÆs knees in and then on a sc**** it, you are just begging for a backlash against your company. And In this case, with SuperÆs and Fighter Bombers, etc etc You are getting exactly what you asked for. A kick in the balls by people that want something they have been given access to. SiSi is a bad idea.
Quando ami flunkus morti. |
Hack Harrison
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 14:27:00 -
[933]
I've only been in Eve about 3 months, but this seems totally WTF...
Surely it isn't that hard to have proper release notes and communicate (I am a programmer - I have to do it.)
If Eve gets screwed over too much here, there are two or three new space MMOs coming out including Star Trek Online.... People will vote with their feet - negative emotions make people do irrational things - like cancelling their subscription...
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Arakkis Melanogaster
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 14:29:00 -
[934]
~excellence~
I thought the whole 'CCP doesn't understand their own game' was simply a troll, but your employees' blatant lack of knowledge displayed in a dev blog that I'm sure has to pass through several hands before publishing proves it really is true. If you have problems understanding how changes will affect the game, propose them to the community and LISTEN TO THE FEEDBACK. Take the mothership changes for example. Why would you completely throw out a potential game mechanic that would affect only very high skilled characters when it seemed to generate such interest? Plot a graph of CSAA use over the last few months, and I'm sure you will see a surge in mothership construction as a result of all the excitement in a new, fresh take on a largely useless ship. Listen to your playerbase and listen to devs like Abathur that actually know what the f**k they are talking about and stop making yourselves look like incompetent idiots.
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Severion Atarkos
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Posted - 2009.11.20 14:29:00 -
[935]
Edited by: Severion Atarkos on 20/11/2009 14:30:31
Originally by: Kalain ap'Sulen
While I agree with most of your post that senior management at CCP need to listen to their customers before we say screw this game and leave, sisi is a great idea as it gives the EVE universe access to what is to come and provide feedback to help CCP along the way.
This is of course if CCP actually listen to the feedback we are giving them instead of saying "ok we've taken all your feedback and months of testing", we will now step on it, light it on fire and then **** on your efforts".
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Astal Atlar
Caldari
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 14:32:00 -
[936]
Quote:
December 2 I am going to self destruct my phoenix and fraps it. Anyone wanna join me we can make an event/protest about it. Naglfar pilots are welcome too. This assumes the nerf goes through as it stands today.
This is what ccp ashieved with all the failed changes to be honest, I just wait for revelation to get nerfed like hell too. CCP trying to improve the game for o.o aliances and pvpers do exactly the opposite ...
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S'T'A'L'K'E'R
Pirate Academy
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 14:34:00 -
[937]
Originally by: T'Karr
Originally by: Joe Goon
Dear CCP,
You'd probably have a lot more constructive posts if some of you guys would actually reply in this thread and move the discussion forward. It'd probably take less time than deleting the "unconstructive" ones. This is called a "dialog" and requires more than one party. If you don't actually want to discuss what you post in your blogs, why do you even bother opening threads about them?
At the very least a post from Nozh (OK, a new blog would be better because it really would be like marching him out into a firing squad right now) detailing exactly what he thought was wrong with Abathur's implementation and needed fixing in the first place. This would give us a basis to further the discussion.
Please take that on board. Now I'm going to wait an hour or so, and when I realise that I'm writing reasonably and calmly for an audience that doesn't exist, I'm going to come back to this thread and do the posting equivalent of taking a gigantic **** on the floor.
Thanks for reading, CCP.
I hope.
THIS
QFT
|
Venetian Tar
United Systems Navy
Zenith Affinity
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 14:36:00 -
[938]
Originally by: Hack Harrison
I've only been in Eve about 3 months
See, CCP. You're losing newer players here!
Originally by: Hack Harrison
If Eve gets screwed over too much here, there are two or three new space MMOs coming out including Star Trek Online....
I'll be going to that if it's better than Dominion~
Originally by: Hack Harrison
People will vote with their feet - negative emotions make people do irrational things - like cancelling their subscription...
I was incredibly tempted, having trained towards Supercaps for a while now. I know of at least 40 people who want to quit, not to mention their alt accounts and Cap holding toons... |
Sperrzone
Stardust Heavy Industries
Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 14:42:00 -
[939]
Edited by: Sperrzone on 20/11/2009 14:42:02
Originally by: S'T'A'L'K'E'R
Originally by: T'Karr
Originally by: Joe Goon
Dear CCP,
You'd probably have a lot more constructive posts if some of you guys would actually reply in this thread and move the discussion forward. It'd probably take less time than deleting the "unconstructive" ones. This is called a "dialog" and requires more than one party. If you don't actually want to discuss what you post in your blogs, why do you even bother opening threads about them?
At the very least a post from Nozh (OK, a new blog would be better because it really would be like marching him out into a firing squad right now) detailing exactly what he thought was wrong with Abathur's implementation and needed fixing in the first place. This would give us a basis to further the discussion.
Please take that on board. Now I'm going to wait an hour or so, and when I realise that I'm writing reasonably and calmly for an audience that doesn't exist, I'm going to come back to this thread and do the posting equivalent of taking a gigantic **** on the floor.
Thanks for reading, CCP.
I hope.
THIS
QFT
Yo this
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Severion Atarkos
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 14:43:00 -
[940]
Edited by: Severion Atarkos on 20/11/2009 14:45:51
^ ^ of course they will lose new players over this too. Any halfwit with a brain can see that CCP is a joke and have lost any confidence from the players that they may have gained back since the T20 incident. I will hold out what little faith I have left in CCP in hopes they will realise they are making a huge mistake and fix it before Dominion.
Noone wants to pay money to an incompetant company that is just going to take your money, ignore demands for a reason and ruin the game that we all love.
Also this is not inappropriate Stevie stop deleting it. Get a senior dev to address this god awful mess you are in and we won't have to keep posting it.
WE DEMAND AN ANSWER FROM A SENIOR CCP MEMBER NOT THIS ****** WHO IS GOING TO DRIVE AWAY YOUR CUSTOMERS AND PUT EVE THE SAME ROUTE SWG WENT
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Ammath
Amarr
Burning Technologies
Circle-Of-Two
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 14:45:00 -
[941]
CCP:
I know you think "oh its only a few hundred players" who are affected by your non-fix of Motherships.... but maybe you should check production queues...
Rebalancing EVERY other Capital ship _EXCEPT_ the Motherships is stupid.
I think that you are over-estimating the "problem" the community has with your Mothership changes.... I really didn't see too many posts outright against it, they wanted tweaks... more room for fighters, concerns of smartbombs vs. fighter-bombers, etc....
Roll it out and adjust... don't just pull it. I know a LOT of people who were training Fighters 5 for those bombers and many many people in stages of building Motherships.
This is not how you should be handling this.
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Kai Lae
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 14:50:00 -
[942]
I have apparently discovered CCP's master plan for the nagilfail! Secret spies have revealed:
Nagilfail final form!
Credit: Mioelnir
Also, betting no response to anything in this thread since this is a trend they've started recently. However horrible the idea, just ignore them and move on because we know better then the foolish volk.
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Captian Conrad
Minmatar
Empyrean Warriors
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 14:52:00 -
[943]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 20/11/2009 01:03:43
Target Painters
***Do NOT Work***
on Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps
SMELLS LIKE A WIN TO ME
|
Jack Gilligan
THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 14:53:00 -
[944]
You know, SOE did something similar to this back in 2005, and it should have been a warning to everyone that the later boot up the ass in the form of the infamous NGE was coming.
SOE had promised something called "CURB" or "Combat Update Rebalance" which was to be a polishing and fixing of the game's original, highly unique combat system. A design was proposed, debated, tested by a select group on a test server. Everyone who saw it, liked it. Sound familliar?
Then, without any notice at all, that idea was completely dumped and replaced by a half assed, rushed out the door to make a deadline, dumbed down, bug ridden, LEVEL BASED system called the "Combat Upgrade". The player base was furious and started leaving in droves. 6 months later the NGE came out, and it turns out the "Combat Upgrade" was really nothing more than a bridge system designed to allow the game to be dumbed down into the NGE.
Everything CCP is doing right now reeks of this. You, CCP, are making the same mistakes SOE did. You are lusting after the players you don't have (casual konsole kiddz) and are forsaking the players you have. You are clearly making changes to EVE designed to accommodate it to your "target audience". Such as dumbing down the sov system. And you clearly don't like the fact that we have capital ships, so you want to make them so bad no one will want them or fly them.
CCP, time to step back, and clear the drawing board. Missing an expansion completely is not as bad as losing your whole game.
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Tappits
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 14:53:00 -
[945]
Edited by: Tappits on 20/11/2009 14:53:41
Originally by: Kalain ap'Sulen
Edited by: Kalain ap''Sulen on 20/11/2009 14:47:38
Originally by: Severion Atarkos
This is of courseif CCP actually listen to the feedback we are giving them instead of saying "ok we've taken all your feedback and months of testing", we will now step on it, light it on fire and then **** on your efforts".
And that is the crux of the situation. If its your thing to go into SiSi and monkey around with stuff, then I'm all for it. If you log into SiSi because you are under the misbegotten belief that youÆll log in and because you have been given VÆs across the board and blowing up that third titan (hahaha did you see him go boom!) will make a difference on the way the game is developed then I think you need to take a step back and lay down that pipe of over-bloated ego and understand that the information they want from your 'testing' isn't from anything that you'll ever see. ItÆs all information that would be gathered behind the scene.
You (and by saying You I mean the collective You) must understand by now that any posting on the topic prior to its release isnÆt going to make one iota of difference in it being released or not released. When a company ask for æfeedbackÆ it is in the majority of the time a way to release the pressure valve off of a situation and allow those involved in the ætestingÆ of X-widjit to publicly state their pros and cons of said item or change. It will in the majority of the time have zero relevance into any final decision making process used by a CCP or any company.
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
If anything you just said was true we would not be on our 4th set of changes in 3 weeks now would we.
----------------------------------------------
I fail At forums
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ |
fuze
Gallente
Quam Singulari
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 14:57:00 -
[946]
Wonder how many devs did read all the posts in this tread. (I did, like I have anything useful to do at work anyway.)
Isn't it heartwarming that you have so many caring players?
Originally by: The Mittani
Where's the excellence?
|
Jack Gilligan
THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 14:58:00 -
[947]
Originally by: Kai Lae
I have apparently discovered CCP's master plan for the nagilfail! Secret spies have revealed:
Nagilfail final form!
Credit: Mioelnir
Also, betting no response to anything in this thread since this is a trend they've started recently. However horrible the idea, just ignore them and move on because we know better then the foolish volk.
Looks good, needs more target painting bonus though. Why not 500%?
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Sajeera
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:00:00 -
[948]
Originally by: Ash Bringer
Ok I'll tell the truth about motherships
Take out RR capabilities of Super carriers.
So;
1- Carriers still will be usefull
2- There wont be any EW resistant Super Spider Tanks that doesnt die.
3- Scarrier + Titan combo will not be the ultimate combo. Actually there wont be such a combo but just coincidence.
4- Dreads will be happy as they can still pawn carriers (triaged or not)
5- Scarriers will be happy. Still moving and pawning capitals and still have huge buffer to remote rep from carriers
6- Carriers will be happy, still usefull
7- Support will be happy. still can jam or kill carriers.
Magic rule take out the Remote reps from motherships.
Agree here, everybody is happy and it solves lots of the current problems
While on this, equalize their dps by changing their bonuses, so we dont have DPS supercarrier that actually can DPS 25% better than the rest thus making them obsolete.
Imagine what it will be if all the dreadnoughts has the same range but one of them has 25% better DPS while the rest has some questionable bonuses on shield or armor resistances.
If the new supercarrires main role will be anti-capital dps so be it, just don't let one of them to surpass the rest by such a huge margin in doing its main job.
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DeTox MinRohim
Madhatters Inc.
The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:02:00 -
[949]
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ *yawns* and waits for CCP to cave in not because of the emoraging capital pilot community but simply because it's obviously one of the dumbest move ever made in this game history.
Reminder
Mom were bad (since their birth)
Mom were finally good (until 2 weeks before the expansion)
Mom went to the trash (2 weeks before the expansion)
Mom went back to being bad. (10 days before the expansion).
nuff said.
------
This sig space is Read-only !
omgalink - Online Skillsheet |
kittypaws
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:07:00 -
[950]
Originally by: Captian Conrad
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 20/11/2009 01:03:43
Target Painters
***Do NOT Work***
on Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps
SMELLS LIKE A WIN TO ME
FAIL CCP
|
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Overlord Anubis
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:07:00 -
[951]
Ridiculously cheap capital ships, moon nerf, I can see reducing the extremely high prices but they are artificially inflated. If r32 and r16 are worth more than an r64 after the patch, I guess that does open the market to newer players, but it is a direct manipulation of the market.
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Zun Da
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:15:00 -
[952]
So, CCP. It is now 17 hours since the devblog appeared and the first angry feedback tickled in.
Since you believe that your changes are resonable and in the best of the game, please can you care to explain them again? Because the blog doesn't explain a single thing - it just makes completely idiotic assumptions which are all untrue (targetpainting sieged capitals, capital battles at long range etc.).
I observed also in the other threads that you refuse to answer any questions unless there is a really huge outcry and you cannot do other than damage controlling. Why don't you just come forward and explain in detail for example why Abathurs changes were scrapped? Why don't you give us numbers (dps, dd cooldown, max hp etc.)? Why don't you try to EXPLAIN things? Why don't you send in the communication experts and instead just delete posts? Why do you waste time deleting posts instead of making yourself useful with alarming the senior devs? Why are the last couple of devblogs about the biggest changes Eve ever saw such a clusterf*ck? Why can't you just TALK and take the FEEDBACK serious? Just don't make some cosmetic changes, take the feedback SERIOUS!
Your players know tons more about this game than your devs (apprently your dev(s) do not even know how capital battles are fought or that you cannot target paint sieged dreads!), WHY DONT YOU LISTEN to all that amazing knowledge available and utilize it like for example Abathur did??
If you continue like this, you will end up very badly very quickly. |
Battle Tested
Shiva
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:16:00 -
[953]
Edited by: Battle Tested on 20/11/2009 15:20:56
Edited by: Battle Tested on 20/11/2009 15:18:01
EVE Online Fanfest 2009 - Dominion.....youtube linkage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6E4dDDUF90&feature=PlayList&p=E7A45268BF4505BC&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=1
Quoted from Torfi Frans Olafsson - Senior Producer of Eve Online
"Right now there is 120 developers working on the Dominion expansion"
-how can 120 developers screw up every aspect of this patch?
"Fighterbombers are pretty awesome ships, and it's very pleasing watching them on the devs monitors now blowing up titans, So the idea is kinda now to balance capital ships, the dreadnaught became something they weren't supposed to do, they were meant to destroy stationary objects or slow moving objects but they became more like anti-capital ships and fighterbombers are for killing other capital ships and the have citadel torpedoes which is pretty awesome so you better be moving when one of these is on your tail"
-nice promise to something you are deleting completely, what happened to balancing capital ships?
EVE Online Fanfest 2009 - CCP Panel.....youtube linkage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFEi2aIvsFA&feature=PlayList&p=E7A45268BF4505BC&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=2
Question from a Goon: "Here at fanfest the dev team always really gushes about how much our input is really valuable to you guys, can you give us some idea of things you've heard here or things you really like?"
Answer from Hilmar Veigar Petursson...CEO of CCP: "It's really the communication with the people that directly do the work which is important, like we have a designer or programmer that is working on something specific, talking to people that actually use it on a day to day basis that is really the valuable feedback."
-Uh... we are talking to you through the forums and apparently you don't see it as valuable because you are ignoring us. |
Venetian Tar
United Systems Navy
Zenith Affinity
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:24:00 -
[954]
Edited by: Venetian Tar on 20/11/2009 15:25:33
Wow, I believe all of my previous posts were deleted.
Well done CCP.
Censorship is awesome c/d?
//Edit: Ok, apparently my posts are still there, so ignore that |
razzo
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:24:00 -
[955]
Nozh, CCP.....
Im still waiting for a answer about what we should do who has invested 20bn isk in a ship
we thought would be something we could use due to the information you gave us a month ago.
I could have invested the 20bn isk in 20 carriers.
So i think we should make a deal, Nozh.
Talk to your boss to spawn 20 carriers in my hangar and you can remove the MS from the hangar array.
Or just transfer the isk to my account and i can buy them my self.
The interesting thing about this is that you and CCP havent sayed anything after you post the blog.
Why is that?
Dont you have anything to say about this?
Wouldnt it be a good thing to make some kind of post about WHY you wont make something about the MS and why in the name of god did they put you on the job and what made you change EVERYTHING from the first blog and everything you talked about in fanfest?????? |
Hello Sailor
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:25:00 -
[956]
AAA, Atlas, IT, GS, Morsus Mihi, Razor, PL, basically everyone in nullsec is united and horrified by the fact that CCP has taken a competent dev (Seleene) and put someone who has absolutely no clue about anything in charge of capital ships, perhaps the single most balance-critical class of ship in the game. All of us are banding together, despite our differences, to flame the muck out of this thread and call for CCP Nozh's removal from anything to do with caps. Hell, a mucking AAA guy called repeatedly for a threadnaught.
This is a sign of the 'old CCP' of T20 and Tuxford rearing its ugly head. It must be crushed.
The mods are doing their level best to delete anything in this thread because the fact that Nozh is blindingly incompetent - while obvious to all - apparently cannot be allowed to stand in the open.
At Fanfest, CCP kept going on about 'Excellence' as their corporate motto. Let's fling that at them. How exactly does this count as excellence, or god forbid 'hardening the muck up'? Is 'Excellence' ruining capitals with an incompetent after the playerbase had participated in a transparent, two-way feedback process that was widely hailed? |
kittypaws
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:25:00 -
[957]
Luckily we have eve-serch it keeps all post's even tho ccp delets them from here ;)
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1217073/page/30
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Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:27:00 -
[958]
How many furious posts have you deleted CCP?
YOU FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL
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Iloni Atoriandra
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:27:00 -
[959]
Hey remember when CCP were talking about "Excellence > Expedience"?
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Lindsay Logan
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:28:00 -
[960]
I do find this sudden changes to be strange.
First a big MOM cahnge after weeks of testing? Then suddenly a revert to old pre testing MOMs, even when they where given a role, a role in anti cap work by use of Fighter Bombers. People was actually acceptiong and liking the idea. The very same people who fly thease super caps.
Imo, let the supercarrier go in the game as you have tested it in many weeks.
And just make a new mothership later.
Even tho I fly BS at most, and use time and resources for this, the ammount of time and resources the super cap pilots put into getting and flying such ships is huge! If MOMs go live in Dominion as is, they will be expencive pod losses.
I also think you need to be more consistent, and you need to be more open towards your player base. Why the sudden change of dev on super caps? Why the super drastic proposed change? Why the revert? Why?
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Voight Kampf
OEG
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:29:00 -
[961]
Originally by: kittypaws
Luckily we have eve-serch it keeps all post's even tho ccp delets them from here ;)
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1217073/page/30
Countdown till CCP censor eve-search.com just like they censor k***.com
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razzo
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:31:00 -
[962]
Originally by: Battle Tested
Edited by: Battle Tested on 20/11/2009 15:20:56
Edited by: Battle Tested on 20/11/2009 15:18:01
EVE Online Fanfest 2009 - Dominion.....youtube linkage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6E4dDDUF90&feature=PlayList&p=E7A45268BF4505BC&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=1
Quoted from Torfi Frans Olafsson - Senior Producer of Eve Online
"Right now there is 120 developers working on the Dominion expansion"
-how can 120 developers screw up every aspect of this patch?
"Fighterbombers are pretty awesome ships, and it's very pleasing watching them on the devs monitors now blowing up titans, So the idea is kinda now to balance capital ships, the dreadnaught became something they weren't supposed to do, they were meant to destroy stationary objects or slow moving objects but they became more like anti-capital ships and fighterbombers are for killing other capital ships and the have citadel torpedoes which is pretty awesome so you better be moving when one of these is on your tail"
-nice promise to something you are deleting completely, what happened to balancing capital ships?
EVE Online Fanfest 2009 - CCP Panel.....youtube linkage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFEi2aIvsFA&feature=PlayList&p=E7A45268BF4505BC&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=2
Question from a Goon: "Here at fanfest the dev team always really gushes about how much our input is really valuable to you guys, can you give us some idea of things you've heard here or things you really like?"
Answer from Hilmar Veigar Petursson...CEO of CCP: "It's really the communication with the people that directly do the work which is important, like we have a designer or programmer that is working on something specific, talking to people that actually use it on a day to day basis that is really the valuable feedback."
-Uh... we are talking to you through the forums and apparently you don't see it as valuable because you are ignoring us.
/signed |
Tappits
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:32:00 -
[963]
Edited by: Tappits on 20/11/2009 15:32:51
Originally by: kittypaws
Luckily we have eve-serch it keeps all post's even tho ccp delets them from here ;)
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1217073/page/30
my last post i think?
Posted - 2009.11.20 13:11:00 - [897]
is 13:11:00 - [797] on eve -o lol 100 posts deleted all ready :)
CCP are doing the right thing keep up the good work
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
----------------------------------------------
I fail At forums
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ |
Kaeser
Caldari
DEATHFUNK
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:33:00 -
[964]
Irony = CCP Corporate Statement on their website here : http://www.ccpgames.com/
"We Care More. We Work Harder"
Perhaps everyone should email or phone through their (civil) note of disappointment using the contacts link on the page so that we know that CCP management is aware of peoples feelings in regard to the game and the current situation ?
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Serpents smile
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:33:00 -
[965]
Originally by: Kalain ap'Sulen
Edited by: Kalain ap''Sulen on 20/11/2009 14:47:38
Originally by: Severion Atarkos
This is of courseif CCP actually listen to the feedback we are giving them instead of saying "ok we've taken all your feedback and months of testing", we will now step on it, light it on fire and then **** on your efforts".
And that is the crux of the situation. If its your thing to go into SiSi and monkey around with stuff, then I'm all for it. If you log into SiSi because you are under the misbegotten belief that youÆll log in and because you have been given VÆs across the board and blowing up that third titan (hahaha did you see him go boom!) will make a difference on the way the game is developed then I think you need to take a step back and lay down that pipe of over-bloated ego and understand that the information they want from your 'testing' isn't from anything that you'll ever see. ItÆs all information that would be gathered behind the scene.
You (and by saying You I mean the collective You) must understand by now that any posting on the topic prior to its release isnÆt going to make one iota of difference in it being released or not released. When a company ask for æfeedbackÆ it is in the majority of the time a way to release the pressure valve off of a situation and allow those involved in the ætestingÆ of X-widjit to publicly state their pros and cons of said item or change. It will in the majority of the time have zero relevance into any final decision making process used by a CCP or any company.
You are probably right, except that the stuff that went on SiSi was accompanied by an dev blog that was totally counternuked from orbit by this blog.
We just want to know *why*.
Is that so unreasonable to ask?
Why where the first changes which where met with great response by this community completely turned inside out (without any input from the community or explanation) and had the complete opposite effect towards the community? And then to make things worse everything got put on hold.
It does not make sense except then giving the idea that those behind the changes have no idea what they are doing.
And what makes thing even more worse is having a dev blog that shows those that agreed upon its release have no clue that Target Painters Do NOT Work on Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps.
I mean that is a slap in the face of every mildly serious player.
But, whatever, we don't get a response anyway.
Adapt or move on.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Total Comfort
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:35:00 -
[966]
If they're using SCRUM metholody properly, they will be having regular meetings and discussions on game design changes before they're agreed upon and therefore before they get into devblogs. Frankly, I don't believe that's the case because someone would have twigged on that some of these changes were garbage or at least picked up on the obvious target painter mistake. CCP has hundreds of employees, a lot of whom play EVE. Surely at least one person working on the Dominion expansion actually plays EVE and takes part in the activities they're redesigning and balancing. They would certainly have spotted those mistakes had it been discussed with them.
What it sounds like to me is that Nohz has been given free reign on game design decisions on this expansion and he isn't consulting other people on it. He's already overriden other people's hard work on the issue such as the past month of work on capital balancing on Sisi. A lot of this stuff is subjective but some has obviously not been run by the other people working on the expansion or even current EVE players before being finalised. Siege torp changes relying on target painters? Docking motherships? Any player could see he's just grasping at straws with very little idea as to what the problem is. He needs to discuss these changes with people who actually play EVE and start taking on board the work already done by other developers.
Didn't you guys hire Seleene? Good god, go and ask him for input. You've run out of development time.
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Gimora
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.20 15:42:00 -
[967]
Originally by: DeTox MinRohim
Edited by: DeTox MinRohim on 20/11/2009 15:09:38
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ *yawns* and waits for CCP to cave in not because of the emoraging capital pilot community but simply because it's obviously one of the dumbest move ever made in this game history.
Reminder
Mom were bad (since their birth)
Mom were finally good (until 2 weeks before the expansion)
Mom went to the trash (2 weeks before the expansion)
Mom went back to being bad. (10 days before the expansion).
There is absolutly NO point in trying to find alternative and constructive solutions guys... It was great until 2 weeks ago and everybody was ok with it. They screwed it.
nuff said.
/Signed, no one complained two weeks ago! Everyone was happy!
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Battle Tested
Shiva
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:43:00 -
[968]
Edited by: Battle Tested on 20/11/2009 15:43:33
EVE Online Fanfest 2009 - Dominion.....youtube linkage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6E4dDDUF90&feature=PlayList&p=E7A45268BF4505BC&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=1
Quoted from Torfi Frans Olafsson - Senior Producer of Eve Online
"Right now there is 120 developers working on the Dominion expansion"
-how can 120 developers screw up every aspect of this patch?
"Fighterbombers are pretty awesome ships, and it's very pleasing watching them on the devs monitors now blowing up titans, So the idea is kinda now to balance capital ships, the dreadnaught became something they weren't supposed to do, they were meant to destroy stationary objects or slow moving objects but they became more like anti-capital ships and fighterbombers are for killing other capital ships and the have citadel torpedoes which is pretty awesome so you better be moving when one of these is on your tail"
-nice promise to something you are deleting completely, what happened to balancing capital ships?
EVE Online Fanfest 2009 - CCP Panel.....youtube linkage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFEi2aIvsFA&feature=PlayList&p=E7A45268BF4505BC&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=2
Question from a Goon: "Here at fanfest the dev team always really gushes about how much our input is really valuable to you guys, can you give us some idea of things you've heard here or things you really like?"
Answer from Hilmar Veigar Petursson...CEO of CCP: "It's really the communication with the people that directly do the work which is important, like we have a designer or programmer that is working on something specific, talking to people that actually use it on a day to day basis that is really the valuable feedback."
-Uh... we are talking to you through the forums and apparently you don't see it as valuable because you are ignoring us.
WE DEMAND A DIRECT RESPONSE FROM HILMAR VEIGAR PETURSSON ON THE FAILURE TO REPLY TO US, THE PLAYERBASE, WHO YOU HAVE SAID CAN GIVE VALUABLE FEEDBACK; YET WE ARE IGNORED!!! |
RogueMind
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:43:00 -
[969]
I'm really having a hard time understanding this latest approach by CCP to correct past issues with unbalance by apparently making everything suck.
You've had a dedicated team of developers trying to adjust what delegates from every major nullsec alliance have agreed at one point or another too - flaws in the combat system.
We're getting a new Sov/Claim Marker crap system thats going to throw the entire game into utter chaos for the first few months - WE GET IT.
We're going to have the Titan redesigned to be more of an Anti-CapShip DeathStar Gun instead of the AoE of Doom - WE GET IT.
But this wavering on MoM's, fighter bombers and this full blanket shift from sorta-cool to absolute fail courtesy of Nozh is a spit in the face to the combined efforts of every Dominion developer and every *paying customer* who gave a damn about the game enough to try and give feedback for better overall improved play.
I realize that my post will probably deleted and the sheer idea of censoring people who pay your salaries (in an economic world when you need all the money you can get) is apparently a good thing.
Someone from CCP please, step in and stop Nozh before he kills Cap Warfare and in turn does extreme damage to the game design, morale, and overall style of play.
--
Opinions are my own.
Torp Nerfing: A thousand BS Campers cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced...
EVE Trinity: The first game where Vista pwned XP. |
Zy'or Tealon
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:46:00 -
[970]
Dear CCP Nozh,
From the ****storm in this thread I'm guessing I know who will be on 'aquarium cleaning duty' for the following couple of months. So in order to help you prepare I've looked up some useful links:
The First Tank Guide
How Do I Clean a Dirty Fish Tank?
Fish In the .net
I hope these links are put to good use.
---------------
The new Bug Reporting process rules! Use it and help make EvE even better!
Quote:
Test your software or your users will!
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Thrud Valkyries
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:48:00 -
[971]
Originally by: RogueMind
I'm really having a hard time understanding this latest approach by CCP to correct past issues with unbalance by apparently making everything suck.
You've had a dedicated team of developers trying to adjust what delegates from every major nullsec alliance have agreed at one point or another too - flaws in the combat system.
We're getting a new Sov/Claim Marker crap system thats going to throw the entire game into utter chaos for the first few months - WE GET IT.
We're going to have the Titan redesigned to be more of an Anti-CapShip DeathStar Gun instead of the AoE of Doom - WE GET IT.
But this wavering on MoM's, fighter bombers and this full blanket shift from sorta-cool to absolute fail courtesy of Nozh is a spit in the face to the combined efforts of every Dominion developer and every *paying customer* who gave a damn about the game enough to try and give feedback for better overall improved play.
I realize that my post will probably deleted and the sheer idea of censoring people who pay your salaries (in an economic world when you need all the money you can get) is apparently a good thing.
Someone from CCP please, step in and stop Nozh before he kills Cap Warfare and in turn does extreme damage to the game design, morale, and overall style of play.
Signed! |
Akay Quinn
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:50:00 -
[972]
Man, what do I spend all this ISK I've saved up on now? Sure as hell isn't going to be a mothership.
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Igor Epocci
Minmatar
Fringe Industries EMS
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:54:00 -
[973]
wow.
I think we've been MILFed by a SoloPwnBlogMobile
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Ceratin
Amarr
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:54:00 -
[974]
Awesome.. so lets get this straight? we're not getting the mothership boost, titans are an 80bil isk jump bridge and your making dreads so they cant hit sub capital ships?
Can i just ask, if your going to make every capital ship incredibly boring and useless, why not totally remove them instead?
fail |
RahSun
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:59:00 -
[975]
WTB: Dev who knows how to pilot/use large cap fleets and target painters.
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Nucanot
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:01:00 -
[976]
Keep on deleting posts, CCP. That's the right thing to do.
Here's a suggestion:
Set a constant number of pages for this thread, say 3. Then claim
the changes are well received, because only a handful of people
whined about them.
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Richyp
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:03:00 -
[977]
Originally by: Nucanot
Keep on deleting posts, CCP. That's the right thing to do.
Here's a suggestion:
Set a constant number of pages for this thread, say 3. Then claim
the changes are well received, because only a handful of people
whined about them.
First page in an epic thread
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Kuar Z'thain
Fraser's Finest
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:03:00 -
[978]
Wow. I'm suddenly very glad I didn't train for caps.
So CCP, you gonna make target painters ElectronicWarfareModule=0 so we can use them on sieged Dreads and triaged Carriers? Otherwise this guy is a tard.
Take the caps away from him before you **** off more of your customer base.
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Kernok
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:05:00 -
[979]
please post your feedback here guys so we can continue to delete it
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Littleluk
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:06:00 -
[980]
So to balance the Titan we are going to let it fit XL weapons and do about the same damage as a dread while it gets a death ray as well to kill a few ships. Hmm I can buy a dread for 2 billion.. what was the cost on those Titans again? HEY why don't we remove BS large weapons and give them the DPS of a frigate. They could be frigates with 50k HP's and cost hundreds of times more. Who wouldn't like that? They could kill 10-20 frigates before a couple of cruisers killed it... maybe.
And this whole, "I don't understand how motherships work or what these changes were for so I am going to revert everything to the status quo because I might get fired if I screw up" is an admission of lack of basic understanding of game mechanics. Here is a clue, you design the ships. WE, the players, will figure out how to use them. IF something sucks we will tell you and you can try something else. Your sandbox not looking like you expected it too is what is SUPPOSED to happen. If something is broken we will tell you. (motherships are broken) Currently a mothership appearing on a field of battle leads the opposition to do 1 thing as a primary objective. Bubble and kill it for the epeen bonus. Just how is a mothership an effective combat ship again? Dreads aren't much better.
I hate to say this but is there a Dev at CCP with more experience with cap fleet fights and some ideas about how to balance things? Here is another clue... you can't balance weapons without looking at resists on their targets AND various ammo types across all scenarios. Best case and worst case scenarios etc. Giga Pulse lasers are all nifty on a graph until they hit an armor tank. (3 out of 4 dreads) The best current feature of a a Naglafar is that it looks nice and is the first primary of an enemy cap fleet since it dies so quick. It is so weak that we primary them even though they do the LEAST damage with standard fits.
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Sannye
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:06:00 -
[981]
Nozh is utterly clueless in how missiles/torps work?
Newsflash for DEV NOZH :
YOU CANT TARGETPAINT SIEGED DREADS, CARRIERS IN TRIAGE, MOMS, TITANS OR ANY STRUCTURES.
There... go hide in a hole and change explotion radius back to 1000 m for citadel torps. And, change the explotion velocity to 100 m/s at least, so a TITAN CANT SPEEDTANK A BLOODY TORPEDO!
And for crying out loud - someone at CCP, get NOZH a manual, so he knows witch game he currently is wrecking....
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Naomi Wildfire
Amarr
Stardust Heavy Industries
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:06:00 -
[982]
Reminds me a bit to the GM who said "Just train Connections to level 7 to solve your standing issue"
I'm so not gonna buy a Mom
My Videos:
Wildfire - New Horizons
Wildfire - Stand your Ground
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Zerobyte1
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:08:00 -
[983]
Edited by: Zerobyte1 on 20/11/2009 16:08:42
So, let me get this right......
Titans are getting a death ray that can kill a mothership in 2 shots, And the HP bonus that motherships were getting is now "delayed"!!
Fighter Bombers "were" ther most exciting thing about this patch.
I really am wishing i didnt save for a year to get a Nyx.
Zee
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Kuar Z'thain
Fraser's Finest
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:09:00 -
[984]
Wow, over 100 posts deleted.
Sporting that T3 Damage Control today, eh CCP?
Thank god you can't silence Chribba:
True Thread Content
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Nightbird
SiN. Corp
Sons of Tangra
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:09:00 -
[985]
Originally by: Naomi Wildfire
Reminds me a bit to the GM who said "Just train Connections to level 7 to solve your standing issue"
... but this skill goes to 11....
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Venetian Tar
United Systems Navy
Zenith Affinity
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:12:00 -
[986]
New Dev blog here
Originally by: CCP Nozh
This means NO CHANGES WILL BE MADE TO MOTHERSHIPS IN DOMINION. Since they are part of the original rebalancing effort, the DEPLOYMENT OF FIGHTER BOMBERS WILL ALSO BE POSTPONED.
Ok, probably not that new as I've just read the timestamp.
Thoughts?
(Yeah, delete a constructive post, I dare you!)
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cpu939
Gallente
Volatile Nature
Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:13:00 -
[987]
ccp nozh should be awarded the nobel peace prize, he has made so many hostile force agree on one trem and that is most of the hate his guts sorry ccp nozh it true i have sceen posts from all the big alliance goons, IT, PL, Sys-k, Rzr, MM,-A-, Atlas and the list goes on all stating that the 1st and tested idea was good. now think about that? to get so many to agree that something is good from so many that are hostile to eachover must mean they believe it would work and that the risk of using these ships would be worth they cost.
Ccp Nozh if you are reading this please reply your lack of replys are adding to the trouble, you have yet to tell us your vision of what you want the capital fights to be like are you going for a movie idea ship at great range ponding the living day light out of each other, yes i could see that looking nice would also state why you tried to drop the moms to 10 fighters, you all about making it look nice not about how we the player pllay the game. this should be the number one rule of a dev "HOW DO THE PLAYER PLAY THIS GAME". at the end of a day that is all eve is us the players sure you made it but if we didn't play it you wouldn't be here.
so in closing change the dreads back so they can work at short range and give the ms the bonus that so many agree they need and listen to the players.
0101011 001101111 011011000 110000101110100 01101001011011000 1100101001000000 1001110011000010 11101000111010101 11001001100101
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Zerobyte1
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:15:00 -
[988]
Signed !
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Rough Necks
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:16:00 -
[989]
That devblog is pure comedy gold... oh wait.
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Ammath
Amarr
Burning Technologies
Circle-Of-Two
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:17:00 -
[990]
Edited by: Ammath on 20/11/2009 16:19:04
You know what annoys me is that CCP wasnt happy with Motherships in that they were supposed to be a logistical base, and support role to a fleet/capital fleet as the name implies. So they decided to take a short-cut and make them SuperCarriers (totally different mindset) as an anti-capital ship monster, and per many blogs and posts re-introduce a true Mothership when they had the time to build one (probably true docking, etc etc).
As people just started getting used to the idea of SuperCarriers they roll it back 2 weeks before deployment. While this may be a move to stop a possible game imbalance it really hurts those people who spent the last few months gearing up for SuperCarriers, building them, skill training, testing on SiSi etc.
The reality is if Nohz wants Motherships to really be Motherships there is a LOT, a LOT of coding that has to happen there to achieve that goal (true docking, true med facility, etc). But here are some suggestions for CCP and Nohz for what a Mothership could and should be.
The first 4 are obvious and should be almost mandatory.
1. Long Range: give it the ability to deploy its task force deep in enemy space, give them 25-50% more base range than carriers
2. Tons of Fuel/Corp-Hanger Space: To keep itself and its fleet supplied in the field.
3. Double or triple its Ship-Maint Capacity: Let it carry 10-15 Battleships, or a fleet of raiding ships.
4. More highslots: Allow them to fit a large array of support fittings to keep their task-force in space.
Optional...
5. Fighter/drone tweaks: Give them a role bonus to tracking, range, etc on their fighters/drones 10% level so their fighters are useful against a wider variety of ships so they have some offense/defensive punch.
6. Capital Energy Vamp/Neuts: Put them in game so these ships have a fighting chance against enemy capitals and a somewhat vicious specialist role.
7. Let them triage: Enough said.
The other problem is they then say the Titan should be the fleet logistical base.... well guys we don't need 2 at the super-cap level... figure it out and move on.
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Zerobyte1
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:22:00 -
[991]
Edited by: Zerobyte1 on 20/11/2009 16:23:01
I understand that there needs to be role and rebalancing. But changing the dreads and titans and leaving motherships where they are put them too far off balance.
Surly Nohz can see this. Im sure he has played the game.......maybe !!
Z
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Lofe sXe
Caldari
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:24:00 -
[992]
Nozh is an obvious troll
Please re-size your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Ammath
Amarr
Burning Technologies
Circle-Of-Two
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:34:00 -
[993]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Let's see...
"Docking games"
We can all agree that docking games are, well, lame. But this problem is across all ship classes, regardless of their hit-point count. Thus, this problem has to be solved by some other means than to limit docking for the capital fatties. We'd like to work on other solutions for this problem.
"Titans"
As stated in the blog, Titans primary role should not be direct damage. We still feel like they need more defined roles, this will be worked on along with proper Mothership changes.
So why are you adding more direct damage capability to them? Why are you not rolling back their changes along with the Mothership ones. If neither ship is meeting the role it should be in. Why is ONE getting a _BOOST_ to an area they are NOT SUPPOSED TO EVEN HAVE while the other gets NOTHING, ZIP, ZILCH, NADA.
And the philospophy of "Well Motherships have sucked for 3 years so lets lets leave them broken for another year" is crap.
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Jonathan Ross
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:35:00 -
[994]
so what about the characters literally trapped in 14 billion isk ships that are the prime targets for being 1 shot by two titans
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Titus Balls
Minmatar
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 16:35:00 -
[995]
Edited by: Titus Balls on 20/11/2009 16:40:32
Edited by: Titus Balls on 20/11/2009 16:40:09
And your first reply is to post more graphs? I agree with Lofe sXe ^^
As to the docking games - a good suggestion has already been made here: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1216618
(Edit: adding docking games link)
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H Zebra
Zebra Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:35:00 -
[996]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Let's see...
"Target Painters Do NOT Work on Titans, Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps"
On Titans and Supercapitals that doesn't matter as their Signature Radius is already very large to begin with. Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.
The Citadel Torpedoes don't do their full potential damage to Dreadnoughts, however they were balanced to do similar amounts of damage towards Dreadnoughts as XL Turrets with this in mind. Citadel Torpedoes have the ability to do more damage to larger targets.
To illustrate how it would have worked with Fighter Bombers, you can take a look at these graphs:
"Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances."
What I meant by this is that there aren't many situations where you get to fully utilize the short range weapons (especially the "6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I" and "Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I"), due to their poor optimal range and the fact that you can't dictate range while in siege mode. With high damage ammo on Tranquility, your damage output starts dropping rapidly at ~5km, in which case you might as well use the long range weapons.
"Docking games"
We can all agree that docking games are, well, lame. But this problem is across all ship classes, regardless of their hit-point count. Thus, this problem has to be solved by some other means than to limit docking for the capital fatties. We'd like to work on other solutions for this problem.
"Titans"
As stated in the blog, Titans primary role should not be direct damage. We still feel like they need more defined roles, this will be worked on along with proper Mothership changes.
why not leave them ALL as they are now on tq and review in 6 months?
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Serena Ku
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:35:00 -
[997]
Edited by: Serena Ku on 20/11/2009 16:44:40
Thanks for finally responding to the EVE community Nozh. 
Edit- lol 5x DCU graph... well that's something.
Edit Ver.2- I think the sensible thing to do at least for the Motherships/Supercarriers is to give them a HP buff for Dominion.
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Kernok
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:37:00 -
[998]
"Docking games"
We can all agree that docking games are, well, lame. But this problem is across all ship classes, regardless of their hit-point count. Thus, this problem has to be solved by some other means than to limit docking for the capital fatties. We'd like to work on other solutions for this problem.
MAKE
STATIONS
SPITTERS
we'll dock em up and kill the station humpers 1 at a time when they undock.
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Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:38:00 -
[999]
So Titans don't have a defined role, but you are still going to release them with their incredibly powerful buffs, yet completely ignore motherships for another six months. Why not just release the incredibly powerful buffs to motherships until they have a defined role? The logic doesn't even begin to make sense.
Also, if Dreadnoughts can no longer shoot battleships effectively, I expect battleships to no longer be able to shoot cruisers effectively. If the most expensive ships in the game aren't allowed to defend themselves from a smaller ship class, than the mentality should go all the way down the ship tree.
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Kieselguhr Kid
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:38:00 -
[1000]
yep that graph makes 15 billion isk ships that can't dock with limited HP that relies upon glorified drones hideously unbalanced. why, after its drones got there, it'd have done as much damage to a dread as 2.5 dreads. can't have that!
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The Mittani
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:39:00 -
[1001]
Edited by: The Mittani on 20/11/2009 16:41:57
You have not addressed the issues of the community at all. For weeks, the Abathur version of motherships was tested; feedback was given from players and listened to by the devs. Broad consensus was achieved.
You have not provided a single rationale for abandoning the efforts of hundreds of players working in concert with Abathur and the other devs on the supercapital reform project.
Why is this being done? Why are you even here? Where is your credibility? You offer us 'fixes' for problems which do not exist.
The Abathur version of the supercapitals was the only one that was created with the input and feedback of players. That is what should be reverted to, and you remove yourself from the capital dev portfolio entirely.
Sins of a Solar Spymaster: my ~fair and balanced~ column
TheMittani @ Twitter
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Krutoj
Caldari
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:39:00 -
[1002]
From everyone here in Legion of xXDEATHXx, CCP Nozh, you have no idea how 0.0 capital warfare works.
Please give this job to someone with a clue CCP.
/Signed
Legion of xXDEATHXx
P.S.: we own the most amount of capitals per person per corporation in the entire Eve, so whatever changes you make, affect us badly and if they affect us, it will affect you too.
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Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:39:00 -
[1003]
Originally by: Sertan Deras
Also, if Dreadnoughts can no longer shoot battleships effectively, I expect battleships to no longer be able to shoot cruisers effectively. If the most expensive ships in the game aren't allowed to defend themselves from a smaller ship class, than the mentality should go all the way down the ship tree.
Nozh Expects you to fit Cruiser guns on your BS so you can kill Cruisers.
True Story. |
Kuar Z'thain
Fraser's Finest
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:40:00 -
[1004]
I love how the graphs even mention Target Painting.
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Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:40:00 -
[1005]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Let's see...
"Target Painters Do NOT Work on Titans, Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps"
On Titans and Supercapitals that doesn't matter as their Signature Radius is already very large to begin with. Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.
The Citadel Torpedoes don't do their full potential damage to Dreadnoughts, however they were balanced to do similar amounts of damage towards Dreadnoughts as XL Turrets with this in mind. Citadel Torpedoes have the ability to do more damage to larger targets.
To illustrate how it would have worked with Fighter Bombers, you can take a look at these graphs:
"Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances."
What I meant by this is that there aren't many situations where you get to fully utilize the short range weapons (especially the "6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I" and "Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I"), due to their poor optimal range and the fact that you can't dictate range while in siege mode. With high damage ammo on Tranquility, your damage output starts dropping rapidly at ~5km, in which case you might as well use the long range weapons.
"Docking games"
We can all agree that docking games are, well, lame. But this problem is across all ship classes, regardless of their hit-point count. Thus, this problem has to be solved by some other means than to limit docking for the capital fatties. We'd like to work on other solutions for this problem.
"Titans"
As stated in the blog, Titans primary role should not be direct damage. We still feel like they need more defined roles, this will be worked on along with proper Mothership changes.
You still haven't answered any questions, all you did was requote your changes basically. F'n FAIL |
Pelleaon
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:40:00 -
[1006]
Originally by: Battle Tested
"Regrettably, we've come to the point where we can no longer commit to making Motherships the monsters they're supposed to be for Dominion. However, we are going to continue refining their schematics, keep our welding torches hot and you should see them undocking from the shipyards again once we and the community are happy with their balancing."
WE, the community, WERE happy with the balanced changes from CCP Abathur.....YOU, CCP Nozh, changed it to make us unhappy with them. And all the while WE, the mothership owners, spent billions of isk for a ship that has and will remain broken after all the positive work, testing, and feedback towards it? It is YOU, the developers, who cant seem to get it right. YOU, CCP Nozh, have completely screwed up the titan, mothership, naglfar, and phoenix. THIS, capital warfare, is the most sought after pvp amongst most 0.0 players. WE, the ones who fly capital ships, have told YOU what we thought was right and wrong in these changes/fixes and yet YOU refuse to listen and/or respond to us. Do YOU expect us to just sit back and remain calm while YOU destroy the ships that we have spent so many months to fly? Convert that game time over to real life money @ 15 USD per month....in truth you are literally ripping us off. Change the isk value of a mothership to GTCs and convert those same GTCs to real life money and see how much you are ripping us off for....Is that any way to treat your customers? Do you really want to ignore your customers? Research other MMO's that aren't around anymore that were blackballed by the playerbase (I wont mention the companies b/c you ninja delete any that refer to specific ones) and you will find the #1 reason why they got blackballed is because the playerbase's feedback was ignored. History repeats itself and YOU should learn from the mistakes made in the past from other companies similiar to CCP. WE aren't telling YOU these things to troll or flame...WE are telling YOU these things because WE love the game and WE want to see it improved.
Nope; i don't want to see it. GTFO
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Kalissa
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:41:00 -
[1007]
Having read this thread nearly everyone is on the same page, and considering you have IT alliance and Goons agreeing on something it's a fair indication to CCP that they fouled up.
The question I have is a simple one.
What was it about the changes that most people liked and had tested out on Sisi that made CCP decide they DIDN'T like? You have been so vague on this it's unbelieveable, people might actually understand more if you explained WHY you made the changes.
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Thrud Valkyries
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:42:00 -
[1008]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Let's see...
"Target Painters Do NOT Work on Titans, Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps"
On Titans and Supercapitals that doesn't matter as their Signature Radius is already very large to begin with. Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.
The Citadel Torpedoes don't do their full potential damage to Dreadnoughts, however they were balanced to do similar amounts of damage towards Dreadnoughts as XL Turrets with this in mind. Citadel Torpedoes have the ability to do more damage to larger targets.
To illustrate how it would have worked with Fighter Bombers, you can take a look at these graphs:
"Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances."
What I meant by this is that there aren't many situations where you get to fully utilize the short range weapons (especially the "6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I" and "Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I"), due to their poor optimal range and the fact that you can't dictate range while in siege mode. With high damage ammo on Tranquility, your damage output starts dropping rapidly at ~5km, in which case you might as well use the long range weapons.
"Docking games"
We can all agree that docking games are, well, lame. But this problem is across all ship classes, regardless of their hit-point count. Thus, this problem has to be solved by some other means than to limit docking for the capital fatties. We'd like to work on other solutions for this problem.
"Titans"
As stated in the blog, Titans primary role should not be direct damage. We still feel like they need more defined roles, this will be worked on along with proper Mothership changes.
Ok, you need to clear a few thing here, Nozh.
Fighter Bombers vs Phoenix - 15 FB with 3 TP on a dread?
Have you totaly lost it?
If the dread siege YOU CANT USE TPs ON IT!
So that number is totaly usless.
15 FB - Base Siege.... the MS is dead before you have time to do anything about that.
It will be one vollyed by the dread/titans.
Thanks, Nozh
You have totaly ********************* my weekend. |
Pattern Clarc
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:42:00 -
[1009]
Could you change the bonuses on the nag back to a double turret damage bonus please?
5% damage 5% rof should be ok. It was like drawing blood from a stone trying to get those bonuses through in the first place, to have them undone at the shiny drop of a hat is kinda dis-curious.
____
Minmatar ship fixes... |
murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:43:00 -
[1010]
Originally by: Kernok
"Docking games"
We can all agree that docking games are, well, lame. But this problem is across all ship classes, regardless of their hit-point count. Thus, this problem has to be solved by some other means than to limit docking for the capital fatties. We'd like to work on other solutions for this problem.
MAKE
STATIONS
SPITTERS
we'll dock em up and kill the station humpers 1 at a time when they undock.
I prefer the term 'poopers' myself.
-murder one
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now?
[07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 |
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Sannye
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:44:00 -
[1011]
So what excactly do YOU think the phoenix has as a role after your insane nerf to citadel torps, and giving a compleatly new launcher the long range ability?
Do you actually think anyone wants to waste capfuel on a utterly fail ship like the cruiselauncer phoenix? Or, even worse, a torpfitted phoenix?
None of them will ever be used again, reprocess the crap and get a revelation.
Would you at least TRY TO FLY THE FREAKING SHIPS before you present the pretty graphs that doesnt matter at all?
Try to hit a moving target, then try to hit one of the TP immune targets with any phoenix fits.
You have all your pretty graphs and base all your dev blogs on EFT crap fits - try log into the game and actually play a siege - you know, where the graphs doesnt matter, but real fittings do?
If theese changes go through on the live server, I cant see myself playing this POS anymore.
I have NEVER seen any online game, where the dev's are so utterly out of touch with the playerbase as this one - and I have never seen any dev as arrogant in his reply as the one in this thread. You put CCP to shame.
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Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:44:00 -
[1012]
Originally by: Kieselguhr Kid
yep that graph makes 15 billion isk ships that can't dock with limited HP that relies upon glorified drones hideously unbalanced. why, after its drones got there, it'd have done as much damage to a dread as 2.5 dreads. can't have that!
Completely ignoring the fact that we are STILL getting Titans that have a weapon that does 400x the DPS of Dread in one button press. So this idea that motherships would have someone been this horrible balance monstrosity is laughable at best. Again, obviously Nozh has also never used fighters and only see the THEORETICAL DPS potential, rather than the PRACTICAL DPS potential, which are usually much different numbers.
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Vincent Gaines
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:44:00 -
[1013]
Edited by: Vincent Gaines on 20/11/2009 16:44:58
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Let's see...
"Target Painters Do NOT Work on Titans, Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps"
So why does your graph, VS A PHOENIX show damage using 3 target painters? 3 TPs on a shield tanked ship?!?
Who would ever do that, and let alone let you slap on 15 bombers and 3 TPs and not be in siege mode?
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PretendRussian
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:45:00 -
[1014]
Originally by: The Mittani
Edited by: The Mittani on 20/11/2009 16:41:57
You have not addressed the issues of the community at all. For weeks, the Abathur version of motherships was tested; feedback was given from players and listened to by the devs. Broad consensus was achieved.
You have not provided a single rationale for abandoning the efforts of hundreds of players working in concert with Abathur and the other devs on the supercapital reform project.
Why is this being done? Why are you even here? Where is your credibility? You offer us 'fixes' for problems which do not exist.
The Abathur version of the supercapitals was the only one that was created with the input and feedback of players. That is what should be reverted to, and you remove yourself from the capital dev portfolio entirely.
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Kodiz
Minmatar
Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:51:00 -
[1015]
Edited by: Kodiz on 20/11/2009 16:51:33
I have an idea lets all go ride bikes! Since there's no way those can possibly ruined by someone else right!?
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Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:53:00 -
[1016]
Edited by: Sertan Deras on 20/11/2009 16:53:55
You know, I went and re-read Nozh's reply, and uhh, Nozh, it makes you look worse than the original dev blog did. It shows you don't even have a fleeting grasp on how we actually use these ships.
Here's a hint: No one target paints anything in a capital fight, making your graphs absolutely worthless. The only line on that graph that matters is "15 Fighter Bombers - Base/Siege", and it's barely 2700 DPS. My Revelation did 5200 DPS with max skills and faction gear. 2700 DPS was not unbalancing, it was not even out of the realm of normal, it was barely half of what a good Revelation will do. Especially when you consider that DPS is based on drones that have travel time and can be killed.
The Titan debacle is just hilarious. For months we've been told you DID have a role in mind for titans, as front line anti-capital, anti-structure fighters. Now, suddenly, in your great wisdom, you have decided titans are now gigantic logistics ships, and SHOULDN'T have a lot of direct damage capability...but wait, you are going to release them with the turret buffs and capital death ray in tact anyway.
This whole thing is just a complete and total mess, and shows a level of incompetence and total break down of sane communication at CCP.
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Gieron
Middleton and Mercer LLP
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:53:00 -
[1017]
Originally by: Thrud Valkyries
If the dread siege YOU CANT USE TPs ON IT!
So that number is totaly usless.
There might be more ships there?
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Serena Ku
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:53:00 -
[1018]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
You dont seem to understand, Motherships- will NEVER use drone control units.
This is the truth. Also WHY was Abathur's work discarded?
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Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:53:00 -
[1019]
Originally by: Kaeser
Irony = CCP Corporate Statement on their website here : http://www.ccpgames.com/
"We Care More. We Work Harder"
Perhaps everyone should email or phone through their (civil) note of disappointment using the contacts link on the page so that we know that CCP management is aware of peoples feelings in regard to the game and the current situation ?
This will probartly work.
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Pedron Niaal
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:54:00 -
[1020]
Quote:
WE, the community, WERE happy with the balanced changes from CCP Abathur.....YOU, CCP Nozh, changed it to make us unhappy with them. And all the while WE, the mothership owners, spent billions of isk for a ship that has and will remain broken after all the positive work, testing, and feedback towards it? It is YOU, the developers, who cant seem to get it right. YOU, CCP Nozh, have completely screwed up the titan, mothership, naglfar, and phoenix. THIS, capital warfare, is the most sought after pvp amongst most 0.0 players. WE, the ones who fly capital ships, have told YOU what we thought was right and wrong in these changes/fixes and yet YOU refuse to listen and/or respond to us. Do YOU expect us to just sit back and remain calm while YOU destroy the ships that we have spent so many months to fly? Convert that game time over to real life money @ 15 USD per month....in truth you are literally ripping us off. Change the isk value of a mothership to GTCs and convert those same GTCs to real life money and see how much you are ripping us off for....Is that any way to treat your customers? Do you really want to ignore your customers? Research other MMO's that aren't around anymore that were blackballed by the playerbase (I wont mention the companies b/c you ninja delete any that refer to specific ones) and you will find the #1 reason why they got blackballed is because the playerbase's feedback was ignored. History repeats itself and YOU should learn from the mistakes made in the past from other companies similiar to CCP. WE aren't telling YOU these things to troll or flame...WE are telling YOU these things because WE love the game and WE want to see it improved.
Signed.
you did not even answer on any question and points we mentioned.
You totally ignored all the players hard work and reducing Titans the biggest ship in the game to a jumpportal doing NOTHING. Why not reward players that spend billions of virtual money on one thing with a Ship that can REALLY achieve something. (Like killing things).
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Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:54:00 -
[1021]
Originally by: Sertan Deras
You know, I went and re-read Nozh's reply, and uhh, Nozh, it makes you look worse than the original dev blog did. It shows you don't even have a fleeting grasp on how we actually use these ships.
Here's a hint: No one target paints anything in a capital fight, making your graphs absolutely worthless. The only line on that graph that matters is "15 Fighter Bombers - Base/Siege", and it's barely 2700 DPS. My Revelation did 5200 DPS with max skills and faction gear. 2700 DPS was not unbalancing, it was not even out of the realm of normal, it was barely half of what a good Revelation will do. Especially when you consider that DPS is based on drones that have travel time and can be killed.
The Titan debacle is just hilarious. For months we've been told you DID have a role in mind for titans, as front line anti-capital, anti-structure fights. Now, suddenly, in your great wisdom, you have decided titans are now gigantic logistics ships, and SHOULDN'T have a lot of direct damage capability...but wait, you are going to release them with the turret buffs and capital death ray in tact anyway.
This whole thing is just a complete and total mess, and shows a level of incompetence and total break down of sane communication at CCP.
You shouldnt have stated the numbers on your revelation, Nozh is gonna ninja nerf it now |
Hakaru Ishiwara
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:55:00 -
[1022]
Originally by: Nyphur
If they're using SCRUM metholody properly, they will be having regular meetings and discussions on game design changes before they're agreed upon and therefore before they get into devblogs. Frankly, I don't believe that's the case because someone would have twigged on that some of these changes were garbage or at least picked up on the obvious target painter mistake. CCP has hundreds of employees, a lot of whom play EVE. Surely at least one person working on the Dominion expansion actually plays EVE and takes part in the activities they're redesigning and balancing. They would certainly have spotted those mistakes had it been discussed with them.
What it sounds like to me is that Nohz has been given free reign on game design decisions on this expansion and he isn't consulting other people on it. He's already overriden other people's hard work on the issue such as the past month of work on capital balancing on Sisi. A lot of this stuff is subjective but some has obviously not been run by the other people working on the expansion or even current EVE players before being finalised. Siege torp changes relying on target painters? Docking motherships? Any player could see he's just grasping at straws with very little idea as to what the problem is. He needs to discuss these changes with people who actually play EVE and start taking on board the work already done by other developers.
Didn't you guys hire Seleene? Good god, go and ask him for input. You've run out of development time.
QFT and you, sir, are a genius.
More on SCRUM here.
I do not post the above to troll CCP. Rather, I expect CCP to professionally communicate to its client-base what took place in the context of the design, development and testing cycle(s). As well as what CCP will do to prevent this type of mess from happening again.
As easy a target as Nozh presents him or herself to be (truly, no other entity could paint a bigger bullseye on their own back than Nozh), CCP the company is responsible for this debacle. CCP the company needs to police its own and bring sanity back to the capital design and development life cycle.
This is the point where a true leader in CCP steps up and takes charge of this [now] one-way dialog.
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Brobuck
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:55:00 -
[1023]
Originally by: The Mittani
You have not provided a single rationale for abandoning the efforts of hundreds of players working in concert with Abathur and the other devs on the supercapital reform project.
It looks to me like a bad case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Just because you are new to the position doesn't mean you have to discard all the progress that was made prior to your arrival. Just looking at the response of the membership here should give you some small glimpse at the obviously enormous amount of pushback. CCP has often stated that they want to be responsive to player feedback, what is the justification for planting your heads in the sand on this one?
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CaptFlemming
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:56:00 -
[1024]
Edited by: CaptFlemming on 20/11/2009 16:56:12
Nozh, i just wanted to say, you have a really firm grasp on what is going on out there. Keep up the goon work.
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
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Overlord Anubis
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:56:00 -
[1025]
giant roids, letÆs make it less profitable for high end miners. Large roids that spawn everyday will saturate the market with mega and zyd. What is the lure for miners in null sec when that happens? Next Ice miners sorry we are screwing you over via all the alliances no longer needing all that fuel.
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Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:56:00 -
[1026]
Originally by: Battle Tested
Originally by: Sertan Deras
You know, I went and re-read Nozh's reply, and uhh, Nozh, it makes you look worse than the original dev blog did. It shows you don't even have a fleeting grasp on how we actually use these ships.
Here's a hint: No one target paints anything in a capital fight, making your graphs absolutely worthless. The only line on that graph that matters is "15 Fighter Bombers - Base/Siege", and it's barely 2700 DPS. My Revelation did 5200 DPS with max skills and faction gear. 2700 DPS was not unbalancing, it was not even out of the realm of normal, it was barely half of what a good Revelation will do. Especially when you consider that DPS is based on drones that have travel time and can be killed.
The Titan debacle is just hilarious. For months we've been told you DID have a role in mind for titans, as front line anti-capital, anti-structure fights. Now, suddenly, in your great wisdom, you have decided titans are now gigantic logistics ships, and SHOULDN'T have a lot of direct damage capability...but wait, you are going to release them with the turret buffs and capital death ray in tact anyway.
This whole thing is just a complete and total mess, and shows a level of incompetence and total break down of sane communication at CCP.
You shouldnt have stated the numbers on your revelation, Nozh is gonna ninja nerf it now
Don't care. I sniffed out months ago that CCP was going to hamfist the entire capital/super capital side of this patch, and put the wheels in motion to sell my maxed out capital pilot. I sold him for a damn good price the day before this dev blog hit, which is great, because capital character prices are going to tank hard after this mess.
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RogueMind
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:57:00 -
[1027]
I've honestly never seen every alliance in nullsec combine together as one like this.
CCP, do we have your attention yet?
--
Opinions are my own.
Torp Nerfing: A thousand BS Campers cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced...
EVE Trinity: The first game where Vista pwned XP. |
Will Hunter
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:57:00 -
[1028]
Originally by: Tor Vanderwal
Quoting The Mittani
"He completely ignores the big issue here, which is that the community and the dev team worked together to achieve a supercapital reform package that was broadly popular and exciting.
For no reason - none has been provided - Nozh showed up and threw all the playerbase's work with Abathur out the window."
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Tyby
tr0pa de elite
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:58:00 -
[1029]
Edited by: Tyby on 20/11/2009 16:58:59
so, log on test server, spend hours/days testing.... we do not care about your conclusions anyway! it's our game, we can do whatever we like with it!
now get out from your basements, and go drink a beer and meet a nice girl....
p.s. don't forget to pay the monthly subscription, tho
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The Medusa
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:58:00 -
[1030]
Edited by: The Medusa on 20/11/2009 16:59:30
I guess the minmatar titan, evasive man gang links and halo implants just became useful.
Hey Nozh!!! :condi:
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:59:00 -
[1031]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 20/11/2009 16:58:50
Originally by: Tappits
Not him. HE looks nothing like nore does he sound anything like the real one.
I hear this is closer:
Nozh
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Major Roy
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:00:00 -
[1032]
I recommend u give the current DD to MS !
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Vincent Gaines
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:01:00 -
[1033]
Originally by: RogueMind
I've honestly never seen every alliance in nullsec combine together as one like this.
CCP, do we have your attention yet?
it's not even that... there was a PERFECTLY buffed MS on SISI. A True capkiller that would strike fear into capship pilots when they'd come on.
The ship was balanced. The titans were perfect. the nag was usable. the Phoenix... well, anyway as I was saying....
Things were GREAT.
Titans and MSs would destroy dreads and carriers, but the titans couldn't alpha the MSs. The MSs in turn could put the hurt on titans.
And for some reason, it didn't make cute graphs. So it had to be nerfed.
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Angel HUN
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:01:00 -
[1034]
Edited by: Angel HUN on 20/11/2009 17:02:07
So far CCP has had a Dev with 0 credibility undo broadly popular changes. Why is it that this same Dev is the one trying to reason with the community. It is amazing how someone who started with no credibility apparently expects to be heard in a reasonable manner.
Lose the graph jockey. The graphs do nothing for his credibility, and honestly are a liability.
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T'Karr
Minmatar
Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:01:00 -
[1035]
At the end of the day, we dont like what you are proposing Nozh... we prefered Abathurs, and we tested it, and we liked it. We had a lot of fun with it. And we all wished this fun would finally be introduced full time to the game. Now you have scrapped it all and have decided to introduce some stupid ideas, with some equally stupid grpahs.
The community dont like what you are proposing. Put Abathurs ideas back into motion and lets get the best expansion to date FINISHED AND DONE WITH ABATHURS IDEAS.
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Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:02:00 -
[1036]
Hey wait ... when did ccp buy failblog?
Fire CCP Nozh-Nothing About Eve
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Sidus Sarmiang
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:02:00 -
[1037]
All your graphs tell me is that if we're ganking a lone dreadnaught or two and someone brought along target painters for some reason we'd do a lot of damage under your changes. That's pretty nice I guess I sure am glad I spent 18 billion on mine. In a real fight we'd be worth half a dread though, that's kinda sad.
Anyways a brief summary of the changes so far.
Step 1: We have a good idea.
Step 2: Test good idea.
Step 3: dfgdgfdhhdfgsdgderhgggbubbbfguydrtgr
Step 4: Write a blog about it
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Ka'lorn Font'a
Amarr
Reikoku
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:02:00 -
[1038]
Originally by: The Mittani
Edited by: The Mittani on 20/11/2009 16:41:57
You have not addressed the issues of the community at all. For weeks, the Abathur version of motherships was tested; feedback was given from players and listened to by the devs. Broad consensus was achieved.
You have not provided a single rationale for abandoning the efforts of hundreds of players working in concert with Abathur and the other devs on the supercapital reform project.
Why is this being done? Why are you even here? Where is your credibility? You offer us 'fixes' for problems which do not exist.
The Abathur version of the supercapitals was the only one that was created with the input and feedback of players. That is what should be reverted to, and you remove yourself from the capital dev portfolio entirely.
Posting to agree with Mittani... Again.
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Commander Tigre
Minmatar
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:03:00 -
[1039]
Originally by: Sertan Deras
So Titans don't have a defined role, but you are still going to release them with their incredibly powerful buffs, yet completely ignore motherships for another six months. Why not just release the incredibly powerful buffs to motherships until they have a defined role? The logic doesn't even begin to make sense.
GIVE THE MOTHERSHIP THE HP BUFF!! It will not make it superpowered, it will make it VIABLE!
Quote:
Also, if Dreadnoughts can no longer shoot battleships effectively, I expect battleships to no longer be able to shoot cruisers effectively. If the most expensive ships in the game aren't allowed to defend themselves from a smaller ship class, than the mentality should go all the way down the ship tree.
I predict capital ships to be lost left and right to small battleship blobs now because capitals cannot properly defend themselves against the smaller ship classes (other than with drones).
"We Choose to listen to the lies we don't want to hear. The truth is, you're already dead." |
Amra Khanii
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:08:00 -
[1040]
So, how about those pesky ninja salvagers, huh?
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:09:00 -
[1041]
Edited by: Vyktor Abyss on 20/11/2009 17:11:08
Disclaimer: I've never flown a Capital ship (despite having the skills) but have been in Cap Ship fights.
I do feel that with the new Titan Superweapons though, doesn't this make Motherships relatively too vulnerable without some large boost to HP?
Whats the salvage like on a Mothership anyway? I'm glad you've delayed the proposed changes - I hope you now actually plan to make them mobile base style "Motherships" rather than "Super-carriers". Always plenty of good ideas in the ideas forum for them, Cheers.
Other than that I like the new "Short range" balancing. I hope that the DPS advantage of Short Range Sieged is enough compared to Long Ranged Seiged to make it worthwhile.
I see lots of flames for you here Nozh, I know it comes with the job, but I hope you dont get to blinkered in your own way of thinking (like you did with all the Gallente changes past!  ), because some of the players will probably know better than you the reality of using these ships from day to day experience. (But not me, so meh...)
Thanks for the blog anyway.
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Akay Quinn
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:09:00 -
[1042]
Why is the answer to "Capital ships cant be Target painted so the new Phoenix weapons wont do max Damage" a set of graphs of Fighter-Bombers against a phoenix... with Targetpainters used that couldn't be used against it in siege?
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Shigsy
Ignition.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:09:00 -
[1043]
Seeing as MoMs arent getting any changes can we stop calling them ****ing super carriers now?
Join "C&P" ingame! |
Agmar
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:10:00 -
[1044]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Let's see...
Out of curiosity, have you ever PLAYED this game?
If so, have you ever played in 0.0? Because, of these changes, it certainly seems like you're just changing things to prove that you can change them. That philosophy is working out GREAT for Obama.
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Tea Spoon
Gallente
Baptism oF Fire
Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:11:00 -
[1045]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.
This sentence makes no sense to me however many times I read it. How does activating a siege/triage module increase the damage received as it provides immunity from the Target Painters needed to take full damage from certain weapons ?
If English is not your native language and have problems expressing a point in it there must be someone there to help you communicate. |
Stora's Lemming
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:12:00 -
[1046]
all i think that surly its wrong to have a 18Bisk worth of ship to be able to die in 2 shots!
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Aethrwolf
Caldari
Podrratu
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:12:00 -
[1047]
Originally by: Aethrwolf
I gotta ask.. is he from the southern USA? as in * trolling remark removed - CCP Ildoge?
well, gonna restrain from replacing what was removed FOR THE MOMENT. Just gonna point out that while the sentence containing the snipped phrase WAS deliberately offensive, it was the part you DIDN'T remove that made the rest offensive, otherwise it was just a hillbilly/redneck joke, and since I are one, I can make those jokes and not be considered a bigot. pitiful, just pitiful. I wont go on cause that would be discussing moderation which is not allowed.
lets see, you want constructive criticism at the least.. since you ideas seem to not jibe with ours.. DEFINE CONSTRUCTIVE!
I know why you have links with China now.. you adopted their ruling style. Don't earn the name CCCP, please
Absolutely everything is subjective. |
Vincent Gaines
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:13:00 -
[1048]
Originally by: T'Karr
HAHAHA epic.... so true. It worked on the test server, so it can work on TQ...
The last time I played around on SISI was after the nerf. I don't have anywhere near super capship skills and yet was able to hold off I believe, 3, motherships after I dropped into siege for a good 6-7 minutes.
I'm sure it'll work great on TQ as it is. Thank god I have no interest in doing any sort of capship fighting right now.
getting alpha'd by a titan death ray was fun though.
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Hockenheim
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:13:00 -
[1049]
Nozh, change race please, don't dishonour Caldari
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Dianabolic
Reikoku
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:13:00 -
[1050]
Originally by: The Mittani
I don't even log into eve-online, a game about spaceships, and yet I know that you can't target paint supercaps or sieged dreads.
I also know, despite not being a player, that cap fights often take place within ridiculously short range.
Welp, this makes next week's column an easy topic. "New CCP vs Old CCP," something about how the older class of 'dev who doesn't know anything about the game' is managing to force out the newer, former-player devs with actual experience.
I wish to quote this post for ironic effect.
Now, where's my msn...
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Arramis
Minmatar
ROMANIA Renegades
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:14:00 -
[1051]
Edited by: Arramis on 20/11/2009 17:14:55
Again graphs show everything, you m8 "has" NO CLUE, how things work in 0.0 or worce in CAP FIGHTS, or how we fit our dread`s, ms`s etc... and I BET you can`t understand why NAGLFAR is the LOLDREAD.
We wold understand that it`s short therm until december 1 and we must have patience so you could READ the feedback of ABATHUR`s changes and talk to the man.
And we expect you to have the decenty to say you`re sorry, to leave the work to someone that knows what he`s doing. PLEASE!
THANK YOU IN ADVANCE!.
------------------------------------------
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME!
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Klisejo
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:16:00 -
[1052]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Let's see...
"Target Painters Do NOT Work on Titans, Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps"
On Titans and Supercapitals that doesn't matter as their Signature Radius is already very large to begin with. Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.
But you said "The new version of the Citadel Torpedo follows the same trend as other unguided missiles. The explosion velocity is slightly higher than that of the Citadel Cruise Missiles (or 2250) which means target painters will have to be utilized in many situations to achieve full damage potential."
So what am I shooting with my citadels that I CAN use a target painter on? Because I'm pretty sure I'm not throwing citadels at a BS blob. Why even mention a target painter at all?
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Nobani
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:16:00 -
[1053]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Let's see...
"Target Painters Do NOT Work on Titans, Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps"
On Titans and Supercapitals that doesn't matter as their Signature Radius is already very large to begin with. Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.
The Citadel Torpedoes don't do their full potential damage to Dreadnoughts, however they were balanced to do similar amounts of damage towards Dreadnoughts as XL Turrets with this in mind. Citadel Torpedoes have the ability to do more damage to larger targets.
To illustrate how it would have worked with Fighter Bombers, you can take a look at these graphs:
How do these graphs comparing Torpedo carrying fighter-bomber damage to fighter damage help prove your point that Citadel Torpedoes are balanced against other Dreadnought weapon systems?
Originally by: CCP Nozh"
"Titans"
As stated in the blog, Titans primary role should not be direct damage. We still feel like they need more defined roles, this will be worked on along with proper Mothership changes.
If both Mothership and Titan changes are both works in progress, why are Mothership changes being rolled back but Titan changes are going ahead full steam? In your opinion, what should be the primary role of a Titan? Why should people get excited about paying $15/month to do that and nothing else?
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Von Kleist
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:17:00 -
[1054]
Edited by: Von Kleist on 20/11/2009 17:18:27
what happened to seleenes changes?
why is this moron in charge of caps?
does he have ANY experience or reason to be there, or did you just have a job opening?
Way to ruin all of the interesting parts of the expansion.
Oh and by the way, the loot tables and bounties suck on anomalities, so thanks for dumping more of them in a system as a reward for sov, nice touch.
forum leak:
I can't believe how on top of this thread CCP is, if they put the same effort into making this game better that they do with modding their forums I might not have to be drunk and high to play it. - Puss Bag
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Kuar Z'thain
Fraser's Finest
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:18:00 -
[1055]
Originally by: Ralph42nd
Nozh-Nothing About Eve
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Akay Quinn
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:19:00 -
[1056]
What did we, as a community, ever do to wrong you CCP overlords, that you felt it just to replace Abathur with Nozh?
Why were Abathur's changes, which were worked on and settled on by the better part of the community, just tossed out the window? Why in hell are you ignoring this question?
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Itzena
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:22:00 -
[1057]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Let's see...
"Target Painters Do NOT Work on Titans, Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps"
On Titans and Supercapitals that doesn't matter as their Signature Radius is already very large to begin with. Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.
The Citadel Torpedoes don't do their full potential damage to Dreadnoughts, however they were balanced to do similar amounts of damage towards Dreadnoughts as XL Turrets with this in mind. Citadel Torpedoes have the ability to do more damage to larger targets.
To illustrate how it would have worked with Fighter Bombers, you can take a look at these graphs:
"Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances."
What I meant by this is that there aren't many situations where you get to fully utilize the short range weapons (especially the "6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I" and "Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I"), due to their poor optimal range and the fact that you can't dictate range while in siege mode. With high damage ammo on Tranquility, your damage output starts dropping rapidly at ~5km, in which case you might as well use the long range weapons.
"Docking games"
We can all agree that docking games are, well, lame. But this problem is across all ship classes, regardless of their hit-point count. Thus, this problem has to be solved by some other means than to limit docking for the capital fatties. We'd like to work on other solutions for this problem.
"Titans"
As stated in the blog, Titans primary role should not be direct damage. We still feel like they need more defined roles, this will be worked on along with proper Mothership changes.
Stop posting.
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Titus Balls
Minmatar
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:22:00 -
[1058]
Well until CCP respond with some valid feedback and listen to users, I can see only one course of action:
Operation Nerf Nohz
CCP might get the hint if on a pre-determined day very shortly NO ONE from any of the 0.0 alliances logs on for a whole 24 hour period. Regardless of anything you need to do, on that day if CCP see that 80-90% of the userbase refuse to log in to show their distain with what's happening then maybe they will get the hint and actually start listening to players (and hopfully nerf Nohz)???
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Brokers Clone
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:25:00 -
[1059]
For now, just sit back and wait... While waiting, rename your motherships
"New Coke"
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Vincent Gaines
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:25:00 -
[1060]
Originally by: Titus Balls
Well until CCP respond with some valid feedback and listen to users, I can see only one course of action:
Operation Nerf Nohz
CCP might get the hint if on a pre-determined day very shortly NO ONE from any of the 0.0 alliances logs on for a whole 24 hour period. Regardless of anything you need to do, on that day if CCP see that 80-90% of the userbase refuse to log in to show their distain with what's happening then maybe they will get the hint and actually start listening to players (and hopfully nerf Nohz)???
nah the protest multi-alliance empire jihad sounds like it'd be more fun then just not logging on.
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Lilinane
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:25:00 -
[1061]
does CCP have another dictatorial position open, I would like to apply for.
Resume
Kinkamache
Telephone : Dont have I-Hub yet so not upgrades as of now
Email: Same as above
I have lots of experience on doing whatever i like not matter what other think of it it actually make me feel good.
I can provide very nice references upon request.
Please let me know i can start as soon as posible since i lost my job since Obama took over the presidency in US.
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Chris Rittenhouse
Caldari
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:25:00 -
[1062]
Originally by: The Mittani
Edited by: The Mittani on 20/11/2009 16:41:57
You have not addressed the issues of the community at all. For weeks, the Abathur version of motherships was tested; feedback was given from players and listened to by the devs. Broad consensus was achieved.
You have not provided a single rationale for abandoning the efforts of hundreds of players working in concert with Abathur and the other devs on the supercapital reform project.
Why is this being done? Why are you even here? Where is your credibility? You offer us 'fixes' for problems which do not exist.
The Abathur version of the supercapitals was the only one that was created with the input and feedback of players. That is what should be reverted to, and you remove yourself from the capital dev portfolio entirely.
I don't think this can be quoted enough. To be perfectly honest I think what most of us want is a tiny bit of transparency.
Why was Abathur/Seleene removed from head of capital changes after being so well received?
Why did I waste 5 hours to get into Sisi to play with Titans and Supercarriers (and enjoy the time I did play with them) only to see them go out the window?
Why did you throw all of Abathur's and the communities' hard work in playtesting the changes right out the window for some half-arsed garbage that was clearly never thought through entirely?
Why are you, Nozh, ignoring the playerbase and insulting us with bull posts for hypothetical situations that never, ever, ever happen in game and telling us, the capital pilots, how they happen when in reality they happen nothing in the way you describe.
Tell us, how are we going to Target Paint a dread or carrier in siege/triage respectively when they become immune to EWAR and Target painters are considered EWAR?
Why are you insulting us with graphs of a mothership with 5 drone control units when that will never, ever, ever happen in the game? Carrier pilots don't even use DCU's unless they're assigning fighters to rat with or ratting in the carrier itself.
Who the hell put you in charge, and why?
Why are you making a change to citadel torpedoes that causes them to do reduced damage and point-blank range where they are supposed to excel and destroy their target and can only realize their full damage if triple-target painted targets are present and the target isn't in siege. Because seriously, we all know that point-blank capital fights never, ever happen, and that in said capital fights no one is ever in triage or siege trying to punish the other fleet as quickly as they can. Right?
Why are capitals unable to defend themselves from sub-capital fleets now? What the hell is the point of that? Is your rationale that we shouldn't be deploying capitals without a sub-capital fleet present anyways?
Seriously, any transparency would be great, not your insulting posts trying to save face because you don't have a clue what actually happens during a capital fight.
Any thread that unites enemies should be a clear indication of the 0.0 playerbase's feelings for a change.
Answer some questions, resign your position to Abathur, and get ****ed you clown.
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Kim Wilde
Gallente
Covenant
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:31:00 -
[1063]
well thx for giving the titans there death sentence as usefull combat ships so far, nerfed into oblivion and why would you risk brining a 75b+ ship unto the field when 2-3 dreads will normlly achieve the same result(altho takes a few mins to reach same dmg numbers) while being just 6bill isk oin the line
you can deploy 50dreads and loose em rather than loosing a titan, spot the error here in cost effective deployments
as the owner of a erebus i can just say mine is now entering deep/cold storage for when they have a role!
except being a big mobile stargate with a bullseye painted on it
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Jacevetter
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:31:00 -
[1064]
In reading over all the dev blogs about The Dominion it sounds like the new Dominion is ALL about 0.0 space only. In the past changes add to new interest within the game, so any changes or additions seems to get old players back and new players deeper into EVE with re-newed interest. IT is the very issue that sets EVE apart from others ! Come'on guys put the fighter bombers in with limits for now, so we can get excited about NEW items, NEW ships, NEW strategy, NEW experiences, and can someone tell me if low sec or hi sec is getting ANYTHING in the patch ?
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Nevada Tan
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:32:00 -
[1065]
All that 0.0 is getting in Dominion is made more expensive with smaller income.
Do you really want that?
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥
I have done a bad thing. |
Tirus Sinobi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:32:00 -
[1066]
Quote:
CCP might get the hint if on a pre-determined day very shortly NO ONE from any of the 0.0 alliances logs on for a whole 24 hour period. Regardless of anything you need to do, on that day if CCP see that 80-90% of the userbase refuse to log in to show their distain with what's happening then maybe they will get the hint and actually start listening to players (and hopfully nerf Nohz)???
Wouldnt a blatant refusal to log on to the test server ever again work better?
That way CCP learn there lesson, if there gonna throw out the playerbases testing efforts they have to do it themselves in the future, also you still all get to play the game. |
Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:33:00 -
[1067]
Edited by: Sertan Deras on 20/11/2009 17:33:58
Originally by: Elaron
Originally by: CCP Nozh
[Stuff]
I note that you did not deign to explain why it was necessary to revert the Naglfar's bonuses back to the horrid split-weapons version that was changed just recently by CCP after many months of player and CSM lobbying. Especially when it has been proven that it could have been brought into line by reducing the magnitude of the bonuses.
Why must the Minmatar dreadnought pilots suffer with two half-bonuses and the requirement to fit double the damage mods to get the same effect as the other three dreadnoughts, especially after training for two (soon three) capital weapon systems? Did you change
them without looking up the recent history of the ship? Do you just loathe Minmatar?
Because the great and powerful Nozh says so, despite having absolutely no clue how capital combat actually works.
...god, I am replying to a Star Fraction post in an unironic way and am in complete agreement.
CCP, do you see what you've done here?! You've made Goons agree with Star Fraction about something. This means your ideas are bad.
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Taladool
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:34:00 -
[1068]
Originally by: Tea Spoon
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.
This sentence makes no sense to me however many times I read it. How does activating a siege/triage module increase the damage received as it provides immunity from the Target Painters needed to take full damage from certain weapons ?
If English is not your native language and have problems expressing a point in it there must be someone there to help you communicate.
I would assume that he is pointing out the fact that you are now not moving at all, and because of this you wouldn't reduce any dmg by lol "speed tanking the torps in a dread" though im not sure that is even possible...
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SXYGeeK
Gallente
do you
Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:34:00 -
[1069]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Let's see...
"Target Painters Do NOT Work on Titans, Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps"
On Titans and Supercapitals that doesn't matter as their Signature Radius is already very large to begin with. Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.
The Citadel Torpedoes don't do their full potential damage to Dreadnoughts, however they were balanced to do similar amounts of damage towards Dreadnoughts as XL Turrets with this in mind. Citadel Torpedoes have the ability to do more damage to larger targets.
To illustrate how it would have worked with Fighter Bombers, you can take a look at these graphs:
"Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances."
What I meant by this is that there aren't many situations where you get to fully utilize the short range weapons (especially the "6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I" and "Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I"), due to their poor optimal range and the fact that you can't dictate range while in siege mode. With high damage ammo on Tranquility, your damage output starts dropping rapidly at ~5km, in which case you might as well use the long range weapons.
"Docking games"
We can all agree that docking games are, well, lame. But this problem is across all ship classes, regardless of their hit-point count. Thus, this problem has to be solved by some other means than to limit docking for the capital fatties. We'd like to work on other solutions for this problem.
"Titans"
As stated in the blog, Titans primary role should not be direct damage. We still feel like they need more defined roles, this will be worked on along with proper Mothership changes.
@CCP Nozh
I got to hand it to you for taking such intense criticism and still being able to post here in the midst of it and give us your point of view.
I liked most of the changes that where coming for super carriers, though I was a little disappointed over losing my drone swarm.
It's disappointing that we have to take such a step back on them, but perhaps good to take some more time on them.
-We So SeXy |
kra torii
United Systems Navy
Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:36:00 -
[1070]
Heh, there's meant to be 1062 posts in this thread.
:welp:
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Tappits
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:36:00 -
[1071]
Let's see...
Originally by: CCP Nozh
"Target Painters Do NOT Work on Titans, Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps"
OMG you got something right well done.
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.
So what your saying is if I enter siege mode in my dread I take more damage because I can tank more?
Don't you mean if I enter siege mode I will be takeing less damage because I can no longer be target painted and then that intern scales the damage dealt.
Originally by: CCP Nozh
The Citadel Torpedoes don't do their full potential damage to Dreadnoughts, however they were balanced to do similar amounts of damage towards Dreadnoughts as XL Turrets with this in mind. Citadel Torpedoes have the ability to do more damage to larger targets.
But they don't so were are you getting your info from?
Originally by: CCP Nozh
changes subject to something else
I loved the Vs Phoenix one with the 3 target panters lololol
Does that not pruve that what you said ôDreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receiveö is infact a lie.
Originally by: CCP Nozh
"Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances."
What I meant by this is that there aren't many situations where you get to fully utilize the short range weapons (especially the "6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I" and "Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I"), due to their poor optimal range and the fact that you can't dictate range while in siege mode. With high damage ammo on Tranquility, your damage output starts dropping rapidly at ~5km, in which case you might as well use the long range weapons.
Backtracking agane.
Originally by: CCP Nozh
"Titans"
As stated in the blog, Titans primary role should not be direct damage. We still feel like they need more defined roles, this will be worked on along with proper Mothership changes.
When you say ôWEö Dont you realy mean ôMEö maybe you should read up on other DEVS work
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Titans
The most dramatic change to Titans will be the removal of the current area of effect, grid smashing, lag generating, fun killing, fleet destroying super weapon.á It's gone, folks!á In its place will be the first of what we hope to be a new line of mutually exclusive super weapons, usable only by Titans. The first of these will debut in Dominion and will keep the names of their grid-wide predecessors but will now focus their destructive energies upon single targets.á (Insert Admiral Ackbar quotes as you please!)
There is nothing fancy about this. You will have to warp your titan on grid and actually target an enemy ship to ruin his day.á You won't be killing other supercapitals in one shot, but very little else is going to survive.á The weapon has drawbacks that are designed to prevent the Doomsday drive-bys of the present, but you'll find a couple more changes which might encourage you to stick around a bit longer than before.
First up is that the current weapon bonuses on Titans will get just a tiny bit of an enhancement so that the turret locators actually might get used. This damage will vary with fittings, just as with any other ship, but will certainly enable a Titan to make its presence felt if the pilot so chooses.
Second, to ensure that you don't instantly melt and can survive more than a minute on the modern EVE capital battlefield, we will be giving Titans a respectable hit point increase.á This will not render Titans invulnerable to assault, but it should allow allied forces time to properly assist them after someone says, "Hey, watch this!" on voice comms and gets in trouble.
The future of this ship class is not set in stone and as EVE continues to evolve they may find even more roles to play.á For now, we consider these changes to be a step forward in bringing Titans closer to being an actual ship instead of the giant nano-smart bombs they have become.á However, Titans won't be alone in dealing with the capital fleets of EVE...
Now all we ask is you drop it and get some one that we can trust to do the right thing because at the mo I don't think there one person in EVE that trusts you...
----------------------------------------------
I fail At forums
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ |
robert stout
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:39:00 -
[1072]
Originally by: Tea Spoon
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.
This sentence makes no sense to me however many times I read it. How does activating a siege/triage module increase the damage received as it provides immunity from the Target Painters needed to take full damage from certain weapons ?
If English is not your native language and have problems expressing a point in it there must be someone there to help you communicate.
well, i suppose, nozh thinks that sieged dreads have increased reps ability AND they are vulnerable and got more damaged compared they are not in siege mode. since nozh shows he knows nothing bout caps - that must be it.
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VinceNoir
Amarr
Galactic Shipyards Inc
Huzzah Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:40:00 -
[1073]
2 Titans can instapop a mothership post patch. A 16 bil ship should not be able to be killed by two ships instantly, I don't care what those ships are.
At the very least give moms the HP boost that they were supposed to get. You can not honestly expect me to believe that leaving the HP where it is right now is balanced.
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Mioelnir
Minmatar
Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:41:00 -
[1074]
Originally by: Chris Rittenhouse
Originally by: The Mittani
Reasonable stuff.
More reasonable stuff.
Indeed. Basically, someone at CCP just aborted the lovechild of game design and playerbase 8 months into the pregnancy.
Ever since I started playing eve some 3 years ago, there was talk about player feedback to the game design, influence and all that stuff. Let's all be honest here, it rarely if ever happened. Usually new designs hit Sisi 2 weeks before release and player feedback pulled the worst bugs and sometimes a game design that would have disintegrated immediately outside the ivory tower.
With the supercap changes, this was different. Long before release, we got a devblog introducing us to the vision of what they should become. This was discussed, playtested, further discussed, adjusted etc etc.
The suggestions had to have been nodded at by the higher ups, so art for them could be created (the department with the tightest schedule as we are always told). It was presented at Fanfest. It was further discussed at the fanfest panel.
Then someone came from behind and stabbed it dead.
How are we to have any more faith in the development process? There is a video on youtube, in which the Lead Game Designer states he is excited about these changes, after weeks of working with them. And from one day to the other, Game Design feels direct damage should not be their role?
How? Why?
Basically: who are you and what have you done with the Game Design department of CCP? Do you want ransom?
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Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:44:00 -
[1075]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Let's see...
"Target Painters Do NOT Work on Titans, Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps"
On Titans and Supercapitals that doesn't matter as their Signature Radius is already very large to begin with. Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.
The Citadel Torpedoes don't do their full potential damage to Dreadnoughts, however they were balanced to do similar amounts of damage towards Dreadnoughts as XL Turrets with this in mind. Citadel Torpedoes have the ability to do more damage to larger targets.
To illustrate how it would have worked with Fighter Bombers, you can take a look at these graphs:
"Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances."
What I meant by this is that there aren't many situations where you get to fully utilize the short range weapons (especially the "6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I" and "Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I"), due to their poor optimal range and the fact that you can't dictate range while in siege mode. With high damage ammo on Tranquility, your damage output starts dropping rapidly at ~5km, in which case you might as well use the long range weapons.
"Docking games"
We can all agree that docking games are, well, lame. But this problem is across all ship classes, regardless of their hit-point count. Thus, this problem has to be solved by some other means than to limit docking for the capital fatties. We'd like to work on other solutions for this problem.
"Titans"
As stated in the blog, Titans primary role should not be direct damage. We still feel like they need more defined roles, this will be worked on along with proper Mothership changes.
Oh god man, really?
I actually stopped reading the first couple times right after "Let's see...". I can't think how you can start a post, in probably the most vitriolic thread I have seen in years with the trolling "Let's see ...", and you actually want to be taken seriously?
You haven't even bothered to answer our questions you numb skull. We are asking why you have chosen to reverse the changes that the entire (aside from empire mining pubbies and l4 running isk farmers) agreed were pretty good. What direction do you intend to take Mom's and Titans and dreads now since there will really be no purpose to them ever fighting in fleets again? Seriously where the hell are you going with this? Now let's add in the fact that with the current list of proposed changes there will be few if any reasons to live in 0.0 much less to fight over 0.0 and you won't actually even see battleship fights anymore. There is almost literally no reason what so ever to play Eve after Dominion, and this includes you empire pubbies, who are going to buy your ships and l33t faction lewts when there is no one left in 0.0?
What was wrong with the previous 95% complete changes that YOU had to reverse? Your still trumpeting the use of Target Painters on ships that cannot be target painted most of the time. Also carry some target painters instead of a tank of any kind on your capital everyday, **** yea! Clone tanking in Nags for the win!
We are complaining both about your proposed changes, and your complete idiocy. Trolling us with more of the latter is not going to solve your problem.
CCP ADDRESS THE THOUSANDS OF COMPLAINTS YOU ARE RECEIVING ABOUT THIS RAVING IDIOT, FIRE CCP NOZH AND RESTORE THE CHANGES WE WERE PROMISED
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Thrud Valkyries
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:45:00 -
[1076]
Originally by: Battle Tested
I would just like a straight up answer from CCP Nozh....What part of CCP Abathur's proposed "Supercarrier" was overpowered or broken? I want to hear it directly from you Nozh...tell us!
33 pages....
1 post from a moderator....
1 post from Nozh that just made things more fubar.....
Why dont anyone from CCP step in, make a post saying "We are so sorry about this. Lets bring back the working stats for the ships and see how it works."
Or "Dear players. We are going to ignore everything you say. We are going to nerf every single ship in-game and just focus on Dust 514. Have a wounderful life and buy a x-box 360."
This is FUBAR, CCP.
Did you want this when you guys came up with the ideas for Dominion?
Most of us have been playing this game for ALONG time and payed ALOT of money for it.
You're talking about giving something back to the players and listen to us when you put up a new idea about somthing. But when we do, you slap us in the face and just ignore us.
Thanks.......
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KInkamache
Caldari
Rim Collection RC
Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:46:00 -
[1077]
Every new pilot in eve once is used to game Mechanics and see a Cap the first thing comes to his head is i want to fly one of those. Well with all this stupid changes why would a new pilot want that. I could have more fun on a BS or even small HAC gang. The Titan, carrier or Mother ships dream have being taken from us once this stupid Nozh idea comes to life. If i were CCP i would fire this moron and get someone that actually know about different types of ships and roles in warfare. What makes EVE stand up above all other MMO out there is the capacity and role the player base have to influence in what is coming in new content, well looks like that is being taken from us by tis MORON NOZH.
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Telender
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:46:00 -
[1078]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Let's see...
"Target Painters Do NOT Work on Titans, Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps"
On Titans and Supercapitals that doesn't matter as their Signature Radius is already very large to begin with. Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.
The Citadel Torpedoes don't do their full potential damage to Dreadnoughts, however they were balanced to do similar amounts of damage towards Dreadnoughts as XL Turrets with this in mind. Citadel Torpedoes have the ability to do more damage to larger targets.
Your grammar in the first paragraph is insanely confusing. You make it sound as if entering siege somehow increases sig radius ("both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive") but that is NOT the case so what exactly are you trying to say?
Torps are the ONLY capital weapon that does not do full damage to other capitals. There aren't very many targets larger than a dread and considering dreads are primarily used for shooting pos mods and OTHER CAPITALS this seems pretty inane.
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Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:46:00 -
[1079]
I think Mittani makes an excellent point, and one that we should really be pushing:
Why was the transparency and feedback loop that worked so well with Abathur's changes completely ignored and thrown away? Why is CCP so afraid to give us a reason why?
Regardless of what ship class you fly, super cap, cap, BS, HAC, whatever...this should bother you. It should bother you greatly, that well tested, well thought out, player approved changes were thrown away in the 11th hour, with no explanation, and half assed sarcastic defensive posts as backup.
This isn't about capital pilots anymore, this about CCP bait and switching us on their "new design process". Making the community feel as if they were involved in the process, only to take the crown jewel of these efforts (the mothership changes) and throwing them out, with no transparency and no feedback.
At least CCP has shown their true colors and proved that the CSM and the community feedback loop they claimed they wanted, was just a farce.
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Promethian child
Amarr
0utbreak
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:47:00 -
[1080]
Oke this whole debacle makes my list of top 10 ****ups of 2009 coming at a smashing NR 1.
Good job Nozh I very much doubt anyone will top this before the end of the year.
Unless you got more plans ?
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Aydjile
Amarr
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:47:00 -
[1081]
Originally by: Christos Hendez
Originally by: The Mittani
Edited by: The Mittani on 20/11/2009 16:41:57
You have not addressed the issues of the community at all. For weeks, the Abathur version of motherships was tested; feedback was given from players and listened to by the devs. Broad consensus was achieved.
You have not provided a single rationale for abandoning the efforts of hundreds of players working in concert with Abathur and the other devs on the supercapital reform project.
Why is this being done? Why are you even here? Where is your credibility? You offer us 'fixes' for problems which do not exist.
The Abathur version of the supercapitals was the only one that was created with the input and feedback of players. That is what should be reverted to, and you remove yourself from the capital dev portfolio entirely.
Completely agreeing with Mittens...now if you look at my alliance ticker, youll know this is a big deal.
i agree, with AAA's agreeing. and check my sig. that will tell you something, too...
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Khefron
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:47:00 -
[1082]
Nozh, you're trolling us aren't you? There's no way a designer of this game can think that siege modules increase sig radius, that a capital weapon system is not supposed to do full damage to structures and capitals in siege, or that saying "use target painters" is an appropriate solution to a weapon system being completely unsuitable for engaging targets of its class.
Just spill the beans with what you're really planning on doing for Dominion already.
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Kuar Z'thain
Fraser's Finest
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:48:00 -
[1083]
Originally by: Thrud Valkyries
Originally by: Battle Tested
I would just like a straight up answer from CCP Nozh....What part of CCP Abathur's proposed "Supercarrier" was overpowered or broken? I want to hear it directly from you Nozh...tell us!
33 pages....
1 post from a moderator....
1 post from Nozh that just made things more fubar.....
Excuse me, but this thread is actually longer than that by over 100 posts. 3+ pages deleted. Keep using that T3 DC CCP.
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Naomi Wildfire
Amarr
Stardust Heavy Industries
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:48:00 -
[1084]
I have to thank CCP once again.
We had a contract for a total of 3 aeons, first one is ready to ship. The buyer refuses to buy it now.
Thanks, honestly
My Videos:
Wildfire - New Horizons
Wildfire - Stand your Ground
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Chicken Breasts
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:49:00 -
[1085]
Edited by: Chicken Breasts on 20/11/2009 17:55:47
I managed to get a hold of Nozh's "Big Picture" drawing:
Big Picture
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:49:00 -
[1086]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 20/11/2009 17:50:28
Can someone post the raw EFT DPS numbers and ranges for each Dread using close-range guns and torps, close-range faction ammo and three damage mods, please?
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Iximos
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:51:00 -
[1087]
promote nozh to lead dev
burn eve to the ground
hail satan
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Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:51:00 -
[1088]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Edited by: Gypsio III on 20/11/2009 17:50:28
Can someone post the raw EFT DPS numbers and ranges for each Dread using close-range guns and torps, close-range faction ammo and three damage mods, please?
It's not very high. With Giga Beams, faction MF and three faction HS, my Revelation could do 5200 DPS. With the same damage mods and crystals, but using Giga Pulses, it was 6500 DPS. Not nearly enough damage to hamstring yourself by not having the range-choice flexibility of the Giga Beams.
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The Mittani
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:52:00 -
[1089]
The danger of taking a position of 'democracy' and 'transparency' - by creating the CSM to allow for player feedback, having devs interact with players at length at Fanfest, and then having a multiple-week process on SiSi for players to provide input on supercapital reform - is that now the playerbase expects CCP to behave in an accountable way.
Arbitrary, incompetent and uninvited changes decided behind closed doors are not a sign of 'excellence', nor are they the kind of behavior that the playerbase will tolerate from the 'new, reformed CCP' - the supposedly democratic, transparent company that listens to its clients, in the aftermath of the previous unpleasantness.
In theory - based on what CCP told us at Fanfest - they use the 'Scrum' development method. However, given how Nozh has unilaterally altered motherships (first 6bn isk, then they can dock, now nothing changing at all) it seems apparent that Nozh himself is able to make these abrupt switches in capital design without any restraint or consensus from the Scrum process.
The CSM is hardly happy about these changes. You can find posts from many of the CSM reps lambasting this idiocy. They are our representatives, democratically elected in a process CCP intended to bring more accountability to the company. Yet where is their impact on Nozh?
Transparency, democracy, player consensus and Scrum - all abandoned. Thank for your help, Nozh!
Sins of a Solar Spymaster: my ~fair and balanced~ column
TheMittani @ Twitter
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Will Hunter
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:53:00 -
[1090]
Originally by: Khefron
Nozh, you're trolling us aren't you? There's no way a designer of this game can think that siege modules increase sig radius, that a capital weapon system is not supposed to do full damage to structures and capitals in siege, or that saying "use target painters" is an appropriate solution to a weapon system being completely unsuitable for engaging targets of its class.
Just spill the beans with what you're really planning on doing for Dominion already.
that ideas are problably beyond our febble minds
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DeTox MinRohim
Madhatters Inc.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:53:00 -
[1091]
There are no hands big enough to illustrate the facepalm this is provoking.
To even try to justify target painters on capital ships as if they would never siege or triage is already... ...... I'm out of word so I'll leave it for someone else:
Originally by: The Mittani
Edited by: The Mittani on 20/11/2009 16:41:57
You have not addressed the issues of the community at all. For weeks, the Abathur version of motherships was tested; feedback was given from players and listened to by the devs. Broad consensus was achieved.
You have not provided a single rationale for abandoning the efforts of hundreds of players working in concert with Abathur and the other devs on the supercapital reform project.
Why is this being done? Why are you even here? Where is your credibility? You offer us 'fixes' for problems which do not exist.
The Abathur version of the supercapitals was the only one that was created with the input and feedback of players. That is what should be reverted to, and you remove yourself from the capital dev portfolio entirely.
Done!
------
This sig space is Read-only !
omgalink - Online Skillsheet |
Lira Reib
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:54:00 -
[1092]
Originally by: Aydjile
Originally by: Christos Hendez
Originally by: The Mittani
Edited by: The Mittani on 20/11/2009 16:41:57
You have not addressed the issues of the community at all. For weeks, the Abathur version of motherships was tested; feedback was given from players and listened to by the devs. Broad consensus was achieved.
You have not provided a single rationale for abandoning the efforts of hundreds of players working in concert with Abathur and the other devs on the supercapital reform project.
Why is this being done? Why are you even here? Where is your credibility? You offer us 'fixes' for problems which do not exist.
The Abathur version of the supercapitals was the only one that was created with the input and feedback of players. That is what should be reverted to, and you remove yourself from the capital dev portfolio entirely.
Completely agreeing with Mittens...now if you look at my alliance ticker, youll know this is a big deal.
i agree, with AAA's agreeing. and check my sig. that will tell you something, too...
I agree with your agreeing with AAA's agreeing.
Watching these epic threads it seems like everybody loved Abathur's cap changes and things were pretty chill. I'm trying to imagine what sort of situation would result in these being discarded overnight and I just can't come up with a scenario that makes sense.
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Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:54:00 -
[1093]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Let's see...
"Target Painters Do NOT Work on Titans, Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps"
On Titans and Supercapitals that doesn't matter as their Signature Radius is already very large to begin with. Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.
Thus the explosion scales? How does one preclude the other? I don't get it... "thus" means that the sentence before is the reason for the thing you're writing after. "increasing tanking" does not logically lead to an increase in damage dealt. Would you please be so kind as to reformulate?
Originally by: CCP Nozh
The Citadel Torpedoes don't do their full potential damage to Dreadnoughts, however they were balanced to do similar amounts of damage towards Dreadnoughts as XL Turrets with this in mind. Citadel Torpedoes have the ability to do more damage to larger targets.
Fair enough, so citadel torps dealing less damage on dreads/carriers than XL guns is an intended feature and got nothing to do with target painting?
Originally by: CCP Nozh
We can all agree that docking games are, well, lame. But this problem is across all ship classes, regardless of their hit-point count. Thus, this problem has to be solved by some other means than to limit docking for the capital fatties. We'd like to work on other solutions for this problem.
Several suggestions have been made in the past and as recently as during the CSM visit in iceland or in this thread. Like for instance increasing the aggression timer? including repping in the category of acts that count towards one's inability to dock?
We all agree that docking games suck, but since you agree that this problem needs to be tackled no matter what ship size, how does nerfing moms change anything. These problems are orthogonal...
Originally by: CCP Nozh
As stated in the blog, Titans primary role should not be direct damage. We still feel like they need more defined roles, this will be worked on along with proper Mothership changes.
Then why going with them dealing more damage then, or them having any damage capability at all?
I don't disagree with the concept, but don't you think doing a 180¦ 3 weeks before the release of Dominion is a bit, well, stupid?
You also fail to address the naglfar nerf, would you please adress that?
Thank you.
Meissa Anunthiel
There is no signature |
Ragel Tropxe
DEATHFUNK
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:55:00 -
[1094]
no more EFT balancing!
Nozh - this gets worse.
Straight answers needed
1. Why did you decide to change the naglfar back to being useless after we spent years arguing to get rid of the spilt weapons????
2. Why are you balancing one ste of capital weapons around e-war use?? why are you proposing one cap weapons type that doesnt do its max damage to its intended targets
3. Have you factored in reload time into your dps graphs (you know the ones you seem to take a gospel to balance around)
4. Answer Mittani's questions - what about Abathurs proposals???
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Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:55:00 -
[1095]
Edited by: Ralph42nd on 20/11/2009 17:55:19
The Mittani on 20/11/2009 16:41:57
You have not addressed the issues of the community at all. For weeks, the Abathur version of motherships was tested; feedback was given from players and listened to by the devs. Broad consensus was achieved.
You have not provided a single rationale for abandoning the efforts of hundreds of players working in concert with Abathur and the other devs on the supercapital reform project.
Why is this being done? Why are you even here? Where is your credibility? You offer us 'fixes' for problems which do not exist.
The Abathur version of the supercapitals was the only one that was created with the input and feedback of players. That is what should be reverted to, and you remove yourself from the capital dev portfolio entirely.
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T'Karr
Minmatar
Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:56:00 -
[1096]
Edited by: T''Karr on 20/11/2009 17:57:05
CSM HAVE TO STEP IN NOW. THEY WILL BE OUR VOICE...!
Originally by: CCP Nozh
"Titans"
As stated in the blog, Titans primary role should not be direct damage. We still feel like they need more defined roles, this will be worked on along with proper Mothership changes.
Originally by: Tappits
When you say ôWEö Dont you realy mean ôMEö maybe you should read up on other DEVS work
Originally by: CCP Abathur
Titans
The most dramatic change to Titans will be the removal of the current area of effect, grid smashing, lag generating, fun killing, fleet destroying super weapon. It's gone, folks! In its place will be the first of what we hope to be a new line of mutually exclusive super weapons, usable only by Titans. The first of these will debut in Dominion and will keep the names of their grid-wide predecessors but will now focus their destructive energies upon single targets. (Insert Admiral Ackbar quotes as you please!)
There is nothing fancy about this. You will have to warp your titan on grid and actually target an enemy ship to ruin his day. You won't be killing other supercapitals in one shot, but very little else is going to survive. The weapon has drawbacks that are designed to prevent the Doomsday drive-bys of the present, but you'll find a couple more changes which might encourage you to stick around a bit longer than before.
First up is that the current weapon bonuses on Titans will get just a tiny bit of an enhancement so that the turret locators actually might get used. This damage will vary with fittings, just as with any other ship, but will certainly enable a Titan to make its presence felt if the pilot so chooses.
Second, to ensure that you don't instantly melt and can survive more than a minute on the modern EVE capital battlefield, we will be giving Titans a respectable hit point increase. This will not render Titans invulnerable to assault, but it should allow allied forces time to properly assist them after someone says, "Hey, watch this!" on voice comms and gets in trouble.
The future of this ship class is not set in stone and as EVE continues to evolve they may find even more roles to play. For now, we consider these changes to be a step forward in bringing Titans closer to being an actual ship instead of the giant nano-smart bombs they have become. However, Titans won't be alone in dealing with the capital fleets of EVE...
|
Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:57:00 -
[1097]
If CCP is truly using SCRUM, then they forgot a huge part of SCRUM: The consumer group. The consumer group is considered a "concerned party" in SCRUM, and if the consumer group is not happy with the released product, then you have FAILED in your development process.
|
paik
Minmatar
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:57:00 -
[1098]
CCP Im issuing a warning to you.
If some serious discussion doesn't take place soon or a compromise with the player base I will be posting these chain of events and your failures on every 3rd party board I can find. Your hypocracy will be known to the gaming community. Banning me about it wont save you. MMORPG.com and so on. Us as paying customers demand better of you and you claim to demand excellence from yourselves.
Balls in your court.
________________________________________
LOLNOZHLOL |
Aionez
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:59:00 -
[1099]
FIRE CCP NOZH !
Every other company would already have done so after yet another show of incompetence
Target Painters
***Do NOT Work***
on Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps
|
Vlad McCain
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:59:00 -
[1100]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Let's see...
As stated in the blog, Titans primary role should not be direct damage. We still feel like they need more defined roles, this will be worked on along with proper Mothership changes.
so they do what? indirect damage?
logistics? isn't that what carriers do.
idk mobile station that builds stuff?
|
|
|
SaintSebastian
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 17:59:00 -
[1101]
Originally by: Ralph42nd
Edited by: Ralph42nd on 20/11/2009 17:55:19
The Mittani on 20/11/2009 16:41:57
You have not addressed the issues of the community at all. For weeks, the Abathur version of motherships was tested; feedback was given from players and listened to by the devs. Broad consensus was achieved.
You have not provided a single rationale for abandoning the efforts of hundreds of players working in concert with Abathur and the other devs on the supercapital reform project.
Why is this being done? Why are you even here? Where is your credibility? You offer us 'fixes' for problems which do not exist.
The Abathur version of the supercapitals was the only one that was created with the input and feedback of players. That is what should be reverted to, and you remove yourself from the capital dev portfolio entirely.
Not empty quoting because you only seem to go backwards while PROGRESS requires forward movement.
|
Needa3
Minmatar
BURN EDEN
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:02:00 -
[1102]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Let's see...
"Target Painters Do NOT Work on Titans, Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps"
On Titans and Supercapitals that doesn't matter as their Signature Radius is already very large to begin with. Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.
.
you really have no clue what you're talking about are you?
|
Selest Cayal
Gallente
Nex Exercitus
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:03:00 -
[1103]
Originally by: Ragel Tropxe
no more EFT balancing!
Nozh - this gets worse.
Straight answers needed
1. Why did you decide to change the naglfar back to being useless after we spent years arguing to get rid of the spilt weapons????
2. Why are you balancing one ste of capital weapons around e-war use?? why are you proposing one cap weapons type that doesnt do its max damage to its intended targets
3. Have you factored in reload time into your dps graphs (you know the ones you seem to take a gospel to balance around)
4. Answer Mittani's questions - what about Abathurs proposals???
I'm also curious To why you decided to swap Dev here. ever heard of not changing horse mid stream?
Anyway The questions are all valid.
Why Throw the MS changes out when they where looking promising?
The Naglfar. never flew it. but it strikes me as odd that you make then ******ed again.
Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels. Zymurgist |
Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:03:00 -
[1104]
Fire CCP Nozh
(preferably out of a cannon)
|
Lilinane
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:04:00 -
[1105]
ok guys one more page of this and CCP MORON NOZH gats fire
|
VinceNoir
Amarr
Galactic Shipyards Inc
Huzzah Federation
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:05:00 -
[1106]
Originally by: The Mittani
The danger of taking a position of 'democracy' and 'transparency' - by creating the CSM to allow for player feedback, having devs interact with players at length at Fanfest, and then having a multiple-week process on SiSi for players to provide input on supercapital reform - is that now the playerbase expects CCP to behave in an accountable way.
Arbitrary, incompetent and uninvited changes decided behind closed doors are not a sign of 'excellence', nor are they the kind of behavior that the playerbase will tolerate from the 'new, reformed CCP' - the supposedly democratic, transparent company that listens to its clients, in the aftermath of the previous unpleasantness.
In theory - based on what CCP told us at Fanfest - they use the 'Scrum' development method. However, given how Nozh has unilaterally altered motherships (first 6bn isk, then they can dock, now nothing changing at all) it seems apparent that Nozh himself is able to make these abrupt switches in capital design without any restraint or consensus from the Scrum process.
The CSM is hardly happy about these changes. You can find posts from many of the CSM reps lambasting this idiocy. They are our representatives, democratically elected in a process CCP intended to bring more accountability to the company. Yet where is their impact on Nozh?
Transparency, democracy, player consensus and Scrum - all abandoned. Thank for your help, Nozh!
Quoting this for emphasis.
If I performed as poorly at my job as Nozh does and upset as many of my customers as he has, I would have been fired on the spot.
|
Jalum Krayal
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:05:00 -
[1107]
All this is funny when you imagine CCP Nozh is Charlie from "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia". |
Thrud Valkyries
Minmatar
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:05:00 -
[1108]
Originally by: CCP Fallout
Posted - 19/11/2009 22:12:00 - Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What will happen to capital ships with EVE Online: Dominion? Get the skinny from CCP Nozh's newest dev blog.
Ok, this is a joke.
1000+ post from the people who plays the game. (And stop deleting posts!)
Not a single statement from CCP about why they do this.
As a grapich designer, do you think i would have any costumers left if i did the samething as you do right now? Wouldnt think so. |
Serena Ku
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:07:00 -
[1109]
Originally by: Lira Reib
I'm trying to imagine what sort of situation would result in these being discarded overnight and I just can't come up with a scenario that makes sense.
Indeed, I want to hear CCP's story on this one.
|
Battle Tested
Shiva
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:10:00 -
[1110]
We still want hard facts and reasons why CCP Abathur's proposed supercapitals were changed...NOT stupid graphs that dont prove ****. WE tested this stuff on sisi and was greatly approved and accepted. I still don't see how CCP can allow one IDIOT to destroy the hard work of a proven dev and a large portion of it's playerbase. How about this for a suggestion...Make a new thread that gives us the ability to vote on each individual statistic proposed by CCP Abathur, and CCP Nozh's different ones, and of current MS. Let us tell you how we feel that way. Tally up the votes, see where the majority agrees, put the approved changes on Sisi and see if it needs tweaking or fixing. WTF is so wrong with that? Or....you can just read this thread and see how we feel about it. It's actually elementary. |
|
|
Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:10:00 -
[1111]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 20/11/2009 18:14:36
Originally by: CCP Nozh
As stated in the blog, Titans primary role should not be direct damage. We still feel like they need more defined roles
In other words: we don't want it to be this, but we have no f'ing clue what we do want it to be. Maybe you could start playing the game and it would give you some ideas.
Quote:
this will be worked on along with proper Mothership changes.
"proper" mothership changes. I like that. Because what was introduced by Abathur, extensively tested and near-universally praised by the community wasn't "proper". And LOL @ the F/B damage vs. phoenix graph. After all the comments concerning TPs you still insist on putting 1, 2 and 3 TPs on there.
WHAT do you want motherships doing if it doesn't involve killing things? WHY have you not even bothered to at least put in the badly needed and fairly neutral (as in they will likely fit in with whatever you DO decide) HP and jump range boosts? Something that would at least make moms have some reason to leave a pos.
WHEN are you going to get around to coming up with your "proper" mothership changes? This is an enormously serious question given CCP's track record with things given the "we'll take another look at them" line and with response times to needed changes in general (for example: how long it took for you guys to bother looking at moms/titans in the first place).
DO YOU play this game, at all? I'm assuming the answer is absolutely "no" based on you reasoning behind many changes you do, combined with the fact that if you DID play you would have said so long ago.
I'm also glad that 30 pages of angry/concerned responses is given a response that took no more than 5 minutes to write.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:10:00 -
[1112]
Edited by: Super Whopper on 20/11/2009 18:14:11
Nozh, seriously, you have absolutely no clue as to what you're doing. The only thing you've done is save several people from my corp from buying super caps, now they can spend their money on more useful things, like faction ships.
Someone fire Nozh because after weeks of work you deserve to get kicked out. GTFO of our EVE and go clean the fish tank.
I, myself, have several PVP accounts of which one is nearing 60m SP. He still can't fly cap ships because I've been waiting for Dominion. Now with these changes I'm still going to wait.
And how is that damage control coming along? Every post you delete gets replaced with loads more, the more you delete the more stupid you prove you are because deleting posts is the one and only thing you have left. Nobody in this thread likes you Nozh and everyone would love to pod you repeatedly, were they given the chance.
CCP and you FAIL VERY HARD NOZH.
|
FOl2TY8
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:11:00 -
[1113]
The Mittani on 20/11/2009 16:41:57
You have not addressed the issues of the community at all. For weeks, the Abathur version of motherships was tested; feedback was given from players and listened to by the devs. Broad consensus was achieved.
You have not provided a single rationale for abandoning the efforts of hundreds of players working in concert with Abathur and the other devs on the supercapital reform project.
Why is this being done? Why are you even here? Where is your credibility? You offer us 'fixes' for problems which do not exist.
The Abathur version of the supercapitals was the only one that was created with the input and feedback of players. That is what should be reverted to, and you remove yourself from the capital dev portfolio entirely.
Seriously Nozh, you don't even read this thread anymore do you? There's this guy that worked in my office and every time there was a problem that was his fault he would just take a 4 hour lunch, lock his office door or not even come into work. His lack of effort and inability to view a problem from different angles was his downfall and I heard last year he died of a heart attack. Also his kids developed AIDS spontaneously. Plus you're fat and pale.
|
Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:11:00 -
[1114]
Fire CCP Nozh - Nothing about EVE.
I would have been fired on the spot for ****ing off just one of my customers, why is he allowed to **** off a large portion of yours and get away with it?
Delete this post if you find it off topic, but since the topic has strayed to this very point in this thread, I suggest you don't. We are demanding accountability within a company we pay money to, and are using this thread to do so.
Whatever, it'll just be mirrored elsewhere anyway.
|
Chris Rittenhouse
Caldari
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:13:00 -
[1115]
Considering how abrupt and knee-jerk all of this is and after mulling it over, I can only come to one conclusion (after re-reading my other post):
This is all a troll. CCP could never do this kind of thing to it's playerbase right?
Right guys?
Guys?
I feel like I should just go and delete boot.ini just to save you, CCP, the trouble.
|
Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:14:00 -
[1116]
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
|
Ironflint
Minmatar
Iron Age Industries
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:14:00 -
[1117]
I have to say, first off, I don't live in nullsec, or fly capital ships. But I have since first hearing about Dominion: been doing research, reading up on these ships, reading blogs of those that live in nullsec, watching videos of capfleet battles (and subcaps as well).
Even with my inexperience, I liked what I saw with CCP Abathur's changes and felt it would improve the game.
CCP Nozh, I have no real experience with this, but it seems to me that I still understand it better than you, and I must say, your changes don't make any sense.
|
Kim Wilde
Gallente
Covenant
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:14:00 -
[1118]
The Mittani on 20/11/2009 16:41:57
You have not addressed the issues of the community at all. For weeks, the Abathur version of motherships was tested; feedback was given from players and listened to by the devs. Broad consensus was achieved.
You have not provided a single rationale for abandoning the efforts of hundreds of players working in concert with Abathur and the other devs on the supercapital reform project.
Why is this being done? Why are you even here? Where is your credibility? You offer us 'fixes' for problems which do not exist.
The Abathur version of the supercapitals was the only one that was created with the input and feedback of players. That is what should be reverted to, and you remove yourself from the capital dev portfolio entirely.
|
Ntrails
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:15:00 -
[1119]
Quote:
The Mittani on 20/11/2009 16:41:57
You have not addressed the issues of the community at all. For weeks, the Abathur version of motherships was tested; feedback was given from players and listened to by the devs. Broad consensus was achieved.
You have not provided a single rationale for abandoning the efforts of hundreds of players working in concert with Abathur and the other devs on the supercapital reform project.
Why is this being done? Why are you even here? Where is your credibility? You offer us 'fixes' for problems which do not exist.
The Abathur version of the supercapitals was the only one that was created with the input and feedback of players. That is what should be reverted to, and you remove yourself from the capital dev portfolio entirely.
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ thinks this is a very constructive post.
|
Arra Lith
HUSARIA
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:15:00 -
[1120]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Let's see...
"Target Painters Do NOT Work on Titans, Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps"
The Citadel Torpedoes don't do their full potential damage to Dreadnoughts, however they were balanced to do similar amounts of damage towards Dreadnoughts as XL Turrets with this in mind. Citadel Torpedoes have the ability to do more damage to larger targets.
So what logic is in that - Phoenix is only dread that "don't do their full potential damage to Dreadnoughts" (and other smaller targets) ? Every other dreadnought weapon system HAS SIGNATURE RESOLUTION SET AT 1000MM. Why Phoenix cant fight against other dreads / small and medium control towers or any pos structures ?
If Phoenix keeps its "role" as anti-super-capital only dread then its completly useless, dont you think ?
Its also not in pair with smaller calibres:
Large Projectile / Hybrid / Laser Weapons - signature resolution = 400
Cruise Missiles - explosion radius = 300 (0,75 x gunnery platforms)
Torpedos - explosion radius = 450 (1,125 x gunnery platforms)
X-Large Projectile / Hybrid / Laser Weapons - signature resolution = 1000
Citadel Cruises => 1500 (1,5 x gunnery) - shoudnt it be 750 then ?
Citadel Torpedos => 2250 (2,25 x gunnery) - shoudnt it be 1125 then ?
|
|
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Thrud Valkyries
Minmatar
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:20:00 -
[1121]
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
this.
THIS.
THIS.
YES PLZ!
And everyone is happy again and we can go back playing with our internet spaceships.
|
Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:20:00 -
[1122]
Anyone else notice this devblog is not on the front page? Even CCP doesn't want to show off just how stupid it is.
Fire CCP Nozh - Nothing about Eve
|
javer
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:20:00 -
[1123]
The Mittani on 20/11/2009 16:41:57
You have not addressed the issues of the community at all. For weeks, the Abathur version of motherships was tested; feedback was given from players and listened to by the devs. Broad consensus was achieved.
You have not provided a single rationale for abandoning the efforts of hundreds of players working in concert with Abathur and the other devs on the supercapital reform project.
Why is this being done? Why are you even here? Where is your credibility? You offer us 'fixes' for problems which do not exist.
The Abathur version of the supercapitals was the only one that was created with the input and feedback of players. That is what should be reverted to, and you remove yourself from the capital dev portfolio entirely.
i can only add that nc/it/goons/aaa/evoke/legion etc all agree on the changes now being proposed is wrecking 0.0 now if we dont know how fights happen then who does, considering we live out there, and most have been in 0.0 for a very long time, far longer than your time as a ccp employee(and hopefully longer than your remaining time as a ccp employee)
--------------------------------------------
Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their Level and beat you with experience. |
Serena Ku
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:20:00 -
[1124]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
THIS! DO THIS AND STOP THIS MADNESS ALREADY CCP!
|
Tertiacero
Caldari
Shut Up And Play
WE FORM VOLTRON
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:21:00 -
[1125]
Well I for one plan on going out and buying a Mothership today, and I'm going to go out and fit it with 5 DCUs and 3 TPs so I'll be ready as soon as Dominion drops to go out and look for solo shield tanking dreadnaught pilots who won't enter siege while fighting a supercapital. I'll probably still die, because I still haven't recieved any buff to speak of in the last three years.
Seriously though, stop with the graphs. You're worse than the worst EFT warrior with all of your hypothetical situations that NEVER happen in real fights. Time and time again you have shown everybody who's watching your complete lack of knowledge when dealing with this aspect of the game, and worst of all you have completely ****ed/reversed an excellent set of changes from another developer that were throughly playtested and balanced and provided NO EXPLANATION for your actions. All under the guise of "excellence" and "transparancy" and the "new CCP".
Fail. Serious and Ongoing Fail.
|
Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:21:00 -
[1126]
So I am now wondering why I vote in the CSM at all. If our CSM representatives are going to get this close to a good set of changes, only to have CCP throw them away arbitrarily, with no explanation, than the CSM really has no purpose. Other than to be a front for CCP's "transparency", which obviously was all smoke and mirrors.
Again, even if you don't fly capital ships, this entire situation should really worry you. Today it's capitals and super capitals, tomorrow it's your favorite ship getting beaten in to ground beef by a developer who doesn't even understand how the ships are used.
|
FOl2TY8
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:22:00 -
[1127]
Originally by: Iximos
Originally by: Jalum Krayal
All this is funny when you imagine CCP Nozh is Charlie from "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia".
Hello! CCP Nozh here, EVE dev and SPACE ENTHUSIAST!
Are your caps doing too much damage all the time? Is your titan constantly stompin' around, driving you crazy? Is Abathur trying to balance and improve your game?
Think there's no answer?
You're so stupid! There is!
What will happen to capital ships with EVE Online: Dominion? Get the skinny from CCP Nozh's newest dev blog.
AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. You hear that Nozh? A metric ****-ton of nerds are mad at you. Kitten Mittons *****.
|
Kiri Serrensun
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:22:00 -
[1128]
Edited by: Kiri Serrensun on 20/11/2009 18:24:10
Originally by: Akay Quinn
Why were Abathur's changes, which were worked on and settled on by the better part of the community, just tossed out the window? Why in hell are you ignoring this question?
This is the bit that makes me curious. Even if somehow all the capital ships turn out to be perfectly fine in 11 days, it's still an amazingly bad way to implement any change--the way fundamental things about motherships were changed back and forth smells of panic or confusion, neither of which are desireable. Or even necessary, in this case, as a playtested, functional set of changes were lined up and ready to go.
(edit; speeling)
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Damaclease
4S Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:22:00 -
[1129]
Quote:
The Mittani on 20/11/2009 16:41:57
You have not addressed the issues of the community at all. For weeks, the Abathur version of motherships was tested; feedback was given from players and listened to by the devs. Broad consensus was achieved.
You have not provided a single rationale for abandoning the efforts of hundreds of players working in concert with Abathur and the other devs on the supercapital reform project.
Why is this being done? Why are you even here? Where is your credibility? You offer us 'fixes' for problems which do not exist.
The Abathur version of the supercapitals was the only one that was created with the input and feedback of players. That is what should be reverted to, and you remove yourself from the capital dev portfolio entirely.
|
Battle Tested
Shiva
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:23:00 -
[1130]
Edited by: Battle Tested on 20/11/2009 18:23:34
Originally by: Battle Tested
We still want hard facts and reasons why CCP Abathur's proposed supercapitals were changed...NOT stupid graphs that dont prove ****. WE tested this stuff on sisi and was greatly approved and accepted. I still don't see how CCP can allow one IDIOT to destroy the hard work of a proven dev and a large portion of it's playerbase. How about this for a suggestion...Make a new thread that gives us the ability to vote on each individual statistic proposed by CCP Abathur, and CCP Nozh's different ones, and of current MS. Let us tell you how we feel that way. Tally up the votes, see where the majority agrees, put the approved changes on Sisi and see if it needs tweaking or fixing. WTF is so wrong with that? Or....you can just read this thread and see how we feel about it. It's actually elementary.
1. HP BUFF ....yes or no
2. fighterbombers....yes or no
2a. If yes 10?
2b. If yes 15?
2c. If yes 20?
3. Reduce build cost.....yes or no
3a. If yes, only clone vat bay reduction
3b. If yes, 5-6b as proposed by Nozh
3b1. If yes to 3b, should MS pilots be reimbursed...yes or no
4. Should they be able to dock....yes or no
4a. If yes, should they receive a docking/undocking timer...yes or no
4b. If yes, should it only be at an outpost with upgrade...yes or no
5. Remove command link ability....yes or no
6. Remove Triage module ability....yes or no
7. Should they get increased jump range....yes or no
8. Other comments and input ____________________________________________ |
|
|
cyno gen
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:23:00 -
[1131]
The Mittani on 20/11/2009 16:41:57
You have not addressed the issues of the community at all. For weeks, the Abathur version of motherships was tested; feedback was given from players and listened to by the devs. Broad consensus was achieved.
You have not provided a single rationale for abandoning the efforts of hundreds of players working in concert with Abathur and the other devs on the supercapital reform project.
Why is this being done? Why are you even here? Where is your credibility? You offer us 'fixes' for problems which do not exist.
The Abathur version of the supercapitals was the only one that was created with the input and feedback of players. That is what should be reverted to, and you remove yourself from the capital dev portfolio entirely.
|
Aequitas Veritas
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:24:00 -
[1132]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
Agree - can always be tweaked later on!
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
|
Grimpak
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:25:00 -
[1133]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
drone control units
you know, that DCU's are like the LAST thing you fit in a carrier's/mothership hi-slot, right?
right??
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:27:00 -
[1134]
Edited by: Sertan Deras on 20/11/2009 18:26:56
Originally by: Grimpak
drone control units
you know, that DCU's are like the LAST thing you fit in a carrier's/mothership hi-slot, right?
right??
The new carrier/MS fit is to be five DCU's and three target painters, as this graph clearly shows.
|
Captain Plumb
Gallente
Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:27:00 -
[1135]
I wish that this whole Nozh business was some huge prank by CCP, but from the way this thread is getting modded to high heaven im going to guess that CCP know theyve made a big mistake.
Seriously CCP, Abathur had the right idea! why did you bring in a bunch of monkeys to destroy his work and wreck motherships?!
|
Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:28:00 -
[1136]
Guys ... Guys ... Calm down
He's actually right you know ...
If there's no reason to live in 0.0
and
if there's no reason to fight in 0.0
and
there's no reason to fly a supercap
then logically
there's no reason to give a damn about your customers
|
T'Karr
Minmatar
Quam Singulari
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:29:00 -
[1137]
Edited by: T''Karr on 20/11/2009 18:30:12
NOVEMBER FOOLS DAY EVERYONE!!!! OH GOD WE GOT YOU BAD!!! SUCKERS!!!
p.s.
Quote:
The Mittani on 20/11/2009 16:41:57
You have not addressed the issues of the community at all. For weeks, the Abathur version of motherships was tested; feedback was given from players and listened to by the devs. Broad consensus was achieved.
You have not provided a single rationale for abandoning the efforts of hundreds of players working in concert with Abathur and the other devs on the supercapital reform project.
Why is this being done? Why are you even here? Where is your credibility? You offer us 'fixes' for problems which do not exist.
The Abathur version of the supercapitals was the only one that was created with the input and feedback of players. That is what should be reverted to, and you remove yourself from the capital dev portfolio entirely.
|
Lady Karma
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:29:00 -
[1138]
Nozh's vision of cap warfare appears to involve agile groups of dreads constantly warping around to achieve optimal range, and only dropping into siege when they feel sorry for a phoenix, as this will somehow increase the damage.
Groups of huginns are used to tackle the dreads, slowing them down so they don't out track the turrets, and painting them so torps can do ungodly amounts of damage. Siege mods, are only to be used in case of emergency, as you don't want to make battleships feel inadequate by boosting your dps.
Ignore these terrible rumours that cap fights involve, jump to broadcast, siege green, siege green, split stacks, sort by a-z. It's all about warping around, and keeping up your transveral.
This is what happens in cap warfare. Can I get a job now CCP
|
Konoch
Caldari
Azriel's Legion
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:29:00 -
[1139]
I will say only the following
Over the next year three MAJOR Scifi games one of which is the successor to EVE's biggest competition will go fully online. (Jumpgate Evo) I planned on investing for a full year in this game come jan/feb. IF this is not a joke those plans may well go completely out the window and i may wait for a new game rather than ever come back to this again. CCP What's happening here is a basic dismissal of the CSM and a complete backhand to the playerbase. I can invest the money i was going to spend on this game on 360 Components or another MMO.
You want to lose customers? Keep going. I left once i have no problem leaving again if this is going to continue to be the standard MO.
|
Zedone
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:30:00 -
[1140]
CCP, it's pretty obvious that you need to halt/scrap all the current capital changes for dominion at this time. At least until you can get some competent designers into the team with some real ideas. Original ideas were a great start, yet some random designer(s) decided to crap it all and do his/their own thing.
You can't really just expect us to accept this horrific destruction. It's way beyond balance and nerf. It's pure destruction of current capital mechanics that we the players enjoy having.
If you expect any of us to just sit quietly, offline and stuck in our so called super caps. You seriously need a reality check.
If you take away someone's toy. He stops playing, and looks for something else to do.
___________________
|
|
|
Trilli Shaw
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:34:00 -
[1141]
What is all the fuzz about?? I don't get it!
Dominion :
- free from the shackles of pos-warfare
- free from the shackles of cap-warfare
- free from the shackles of war for space
- free from the shackles of supercaps
- free from Eve, finally
Ain't it great??
|
FOl2TY8
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:35:00 -
[1142]
I'm gonna go play some Left 4 Dead 2.
|
Digital Gaidin
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:41:00 -
[1143]
Edited by: Digital Gaidin on 20/11/2009 18:42:15
Quote:
At least CCP will never have any competition in the feild of space mmo's
oh wait
Jumpgate
Startrek (confirmed to have ambulation working right from the start)
Star Wars (true I can't figure out if you can fly spaceships in this one, but you can be a jedi)
Nope, CCP don't worry about keeping your customers, you have the market cornered on space MMO's, right?
No offense, but all 3x of those Sci-Fi MMORPG's look like **** compared to EVE. Maybe Star Trek will get their act together, but who really wants to play Jedi-WOW (aka MMORPG KOTOR). Jumpgate Evolution looks like EVE with joysticks... seems so 1990's...
Give us some communication with a non-defensive GM please about WHY these changes are needed and WHY the player-approved and player-tested recommendations/opinions were completely ignored!?!?!?
|
kittypaws
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:41:00 -
[1144]
Originally by: Thrud Valkyries
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
this.
THIS.
THIS.
YES PLZ!
And everyone is happy again and we can go back playing with our internet spaceships.
|
Jack Gilligan
THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:41:00 -
[1145]
Originally by: Nucanot
Keep on deleting posts, CCP. That's the right thing to do.
Here's a suggestion:
Set a constant number of pages for this thread, say 3. Then claim
the changes are well received, because only a handful of people
whined about them.
That is exactly what SOE did with the NGE. They kept deleting threads/posts, banning users, and proclaiming that the changes were "well received" and that the complainers were a "vocal minority".
Is Nozh's real name Julio Torres or John Smedley?
|
Grimpak
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:42:00 -
[1146]
Originally by: Sertan Deras
Edited by: Sertan Deras on 20/11/2009 18:26:56
Originally by: Grimpak
drone control units
you know, that DCU's are like the LAST thing you fit in a carrier's/mothership hi-slot, right?
right??
The new carrier/MS fit is to be five DCU's and three target painters, as this graph clearly shows.
so it seems....
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Luna Negra
FinFleet
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:44:00 -
[1147]
Originally by: Ranger 1
In most players minds Super Carriers will always be Mother Ships, and Mother Ship conjures the mental image of a huge ship devoted to the transportation and support of an invasion fleet while still being well able to defend themselves with massive waves of fighters and a huge capacity to absorb damage. They should be devoted to the support of their own fleet, and be highly effective at killing enemy support.
Amen.
_________________________
Gravity you win again! |
Battle Tested
Shiva
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:45:00 -
[1148]
Originally by: kittypaws
Originally by: Thrud Valkyries
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
this.
THIS.
THIS.
YES PLZ!
And everyone is happy again and we can go back playing with our internet spaceships.
/signed |
L4NC3R
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:46:00 -
[1149]
Quote:
The Mittani on 20/11/2009 16:41:57
You have not addressed the issues of the community at all. For weeks, the Abathur version of motherships was tested; feedback was given from players and listened to by the devs. Broad consensus was achieved.
You have not provided a single rationale for abandoning the efforts of hundreds of players working in concert with Abathur and the other devs on the supercapital reform project.
Why is this being done? Why are you even here? Where is your credibility? You offer us 'fixes' for problems which do not exist.
The Abathur version of the supercapitals was the only one that was created with the input and feedback of players. That is what should be reverted to, and you remove yourself from the capital dev portfolio entirely.
I bolded the parts you should really pay attention to!
|
paik
Minmatar
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:47:00 -
[1150]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
THIS PLEASE
________________________________________
LOLNOZHLOL |
|
|
Went Boom
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:48:00 -
[1151]
Originally by: Digital Gaidin
Edited by: Digital Gaidin on 20/11/2009 18:42:15
Quote:
At least CCP will never have any competition in the feild of space mmo's
oh wait
Jumpgate
Startrek (confirmed to have ambulation working right from the start)
Star Wars (true I can't figure out if you can fly spaceships in this one, but you can be a jedi)
Nope, CCP don't worry about keeping your customers, you have the market cornered on space MMO's, right?
No offense, but all 3x of those Sci-Fi MMORPG's look like **** compared to EVE. Maybe Star Trek will get their act together, but who really wants to play Jedi-WOW (aka MMORPG KOTOR). Jumpgate Evolution looks like EVE with joysticks... seems so 1990's...
Give us some communication with a non-defensive GM please about WHY these changes are needed and WHY the player-approved and player-tested recommendations/opinions were completely ignored!?!?!?
No offense taken, my point still stands that they are soon going to be one of several in the viable space MMO market.
And yes Star Trek currently looks like ass, and I'm not really interested in playing a star wars MMO, but jumpgate looks promising and kinda cool, so far.
|
stylo11
Gallente
Quam Singulari
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:48:00 -
[1152]
*SIGH*
When something right is done for once, give us a shout.
|
Ryan Powers
Caldari
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:48:00 -
[1153]
I think Nozh is telling me that I should scrap my future plans to train for a dread.
As everyone else has asked, if EW (electronic warfare) does not work on sieged dreads, why is there a bar in your 'vs phoenix' dps graph that considers 3 TP's (target painters) being used? The U.S. Congress is bad enough at using misleading graphs, we don't need that from a videogame.
Also, as everyone else has asked (Everyone in the world. Even Tibetan monks.) what prompted these recent decisions? Was there a flaw with the previous process in which players actually tested the changes? Is there some secret coding mistake that makes the proposed changes untenable on Tranquility?
|
Yazus Kor
Naraka Holdings
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:49:00 -
[1154]
Originally by: Thrud Valkyries
Ok, i get it now.
Nozh dont like caps cause he cant fly them.
He started to nerf the **** out of the carriers 2 years ago.
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=514
Its clear they he doesnt know anything about anything when it comes internet spaceships.
No, Nozh im not flaming you. Its just fact and you know it.
Nerfing carriers, designing t3 ships that you can only use for scouting or rating/plexing.
Good work, Nozh.
But the point is, you talked to us when you were going to kill the carrier and made it to a pretty nice thing after all. Why wont you listen to us now and give us the things we tested on sisi?
Link is Mysteriously not working.
How Subtle.
"Beware, you who seek first and final principles, for you are trampling the garden of an angry God and he awaits you just beyond the last theorem." |
Kel Arkir
Biotronics Inc.
Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:49:00 -
[1155]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
So much truth in a single post is almost unbearable.
/signed for wantage 
|
Misanth
Reaper Industries
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:49:00 -
[1156]
Some things in this blog sounds sensible, but others.. far from.
* Achieving certain role for certain ships, or at least trying to, usually helps from making given ships 'useless' as another one does the same job 'better'. I.e. it's good if CCP can streamline the capitals 'role'.
- However, it's worth mentioning; the changes that Abathur initially pulled in for motherships actually streamlined them into an on-field damage dealer. The later changes by Nozh put the xMom's into a pure Carrier role. I'm quite worried that Nozh, frankly speaking, have no clue what the hell he's doing.
* This is illustrated by the next example. Nozh, in his blog, states that certain missile types will require target painters to be effective.
- I'd love to hear Nozh explain why and who would field TP's when the Dreads are fighting POS, Dreads (usally sieged), Supercapitals (e-war immune) and Carriers (expected to be more commonly used in triage post-Dominion)?
All in all the blog doesn't really explain much, except the reasoning behind capital weaponry, and it states what role the Titan is supposed to have. However, it shows a lack of understanding of basic game concept, and it's worrying how Nozh say one thing, but act another way (the 'role' for motherships).
I'm happy we get the TQ-moms back tho, the 10drone, cheap manufacture and dockable thing was an abomination that never should exist. We already got carriers.
-
I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
foxxxy Love
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:50:00 -
[1157]
Edited by: foxxxy Love on 20/11/2009 18:52:40
The day Dominion ships with these clearly well-informed, extensively discussed, brilliantly implemented capital ship changes designed exclusively by CCP Nozh is the day I fire up my alt, fly my Nyx straight into empire space and take on all of CONCORD because, essentialy, this is exactly what they were so ingeniously redesigned for: getting blown up.
To CCP Nozh: Please let this be some ill-concieved practical joke
(Edit: Poor Grammarz)
|
Itzena
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:51:00 -
[1158]
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
Originally by: Nucanot
Keep on deleting posts, CCP. That's the right thing to do.
Here's a suggestion:
Set a constant number of pages for this thread, say 3. Then claim
the changes are well received, because only a handful of people
whined about them.
That is exactly what SOE did with the NGE. They kept deleting threads/posts, banning users, and proclaiming that the changes were "well received" and that the complainers were a "vocal minority".
Is Nozh's real name Julio Torres or John Smedley?
Hey now, that's a little unfair...to Smed. He eventually admitted that the NGE was a screw-up from beginning to end and tried to learn from it.
|
Mrs Dent
Minmatar
Cocks in Frocks
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:53:00 -
[1159]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
SIGNED!!!
|
Jaron Terrkin
Biotronics Inc.
Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:54:00 -
[1160]
Originally by: Kel Arkir
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
So much truth in a single post is almost unbearable.
/signed for wantage
Oh yeah.
/signed
(btw hire this guy ccp or free abathur!)
|
|
|
Ammath
Amarr
Burning Technologies
Circle-Of-Two
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 18:54:00 -
[1161]
In the spirit of Kanye West...
CCP Nohz doesn't care about Cap People.
CCP Nohz doesn't care about Cap People.
CCP Nohz doesn't care about Cap People.
|
CWevers
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:04:00 -
[1162]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
/signed
CCP fire Nozh and give Abathur his job please... thank you!
|
Luna Negra
FinFleet
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:04:00 -
[1163]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
/signed
_________________________
Gravity you win again! |
Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:05:00 -
[1164]
Originally by: Battle Tested
Originally by: lydiazy
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
This. I think its a thing called "feedback from the playerbase" ever heard of that ccp.
And the sad thing is we all agree on this, we all know this is the best design to the capitals, yet CCP Nozh will NOT allow these changes b/c then he would have to publicly say he was wrong and the playerbase was right....And we KNOW he won't do that because he is still trying to defend his ignorance with graphs that prove him wrong.
/signed
Implement the changes shown above, then quit CCP Nozh-Nothing About Eve
|
Jordan Musgrat
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:06:00 -
[1165]
When the whole of eve thinks you're wrong, you'd better start asking why. I don't think you guys at CCP understand what you're doing. You're allowing 1 or just a few devs to ruin this patch. Start listening to the people who play the game. There was alot riding on this patch, and quite a few people had resubbed for it. Don't make the mistake of screwing it up. Getting a bit late in the game, isn't it?
The sad part is, most likely only Nozh is reading this thread, and the rest of the devs are thinking things are just rolling along dandily. Too bad the whole company isn't forced to read this thread and see what a big screwup there is.
-----------
Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0... |
Kkhaarn
Black Serpent Technologies
R.A.G.E
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:09:00 -
[1166]
*rubs temples* CCP you continue to amaze me. Ok cool, for the next 6 months my two motherships are worth 20 billion give or take, and they can now be alphaed by two or three titans, and they can't do any more DPS, and they... I'm just gonna shut up before I get myself in trouble.
I say deploy the fighter bombers... Limit a mom to only be able to launch 10 at a time regardless of DCUs, leave the regular fighters at 20. YOu've still successfully implemented POS Bookmark Online for all mothership pilots until the next nerf comes along.
And I've never used a target painter on a dread... >.< I must be noob at this!
|
Ravenid
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:10:00 -
[1167]
Edited by: Ravenid on 20/11/2009 19:12:05
Love this quote from mmorpg.com
Quote:
MMORPG.com: Talk about the recent changes to the Massive Super Carrier. Many players are calling it a nerf. Can you set the record straight? Noah Ward: Unlike most other MMORPGs, with EVE we try to give every class of ship a clear role. It's not a simple game of bigger is better. It's more like a complex and nuanced game of Rock/Paper/Scissors. Unfortunately the poor Supercarrier (previously known as Mothership) never had a clear role much like the lion in Wizard of Oz didn't have a heart. They occupy a space between the massive Titans and the more ubiquitous Carrier class of ship without really standing out on their own. We wanted to improve this situation, find their true role and make them something pilots would be proud to fly; enter Fighter Bombers. Fighter Bombers are anti-capital weapons that launch big dumb warheads that do a lot of damage but have trouble hitting the broad side of a battleship. We like the direction things are heading and the models look damn cool but we're still not 100% sure the changes are achieving what we want to achieve. This is why the changes to Motherships/Supercarriers are being deferred and won't go out in Dominion 1.0. We're going to continue to play test both internally and on our public test servers. We're going to continue to talk to players. We're going to follow the yellow brick road and we're going to find the unique role these ships fill which will hopefully make the largest number of people happy.
|
T'Karr
Minmatar
Quam Singulari
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:11:00 -
[1168]
I just want to put in a slightly more constructive post than i have done befor...
I dont think its right telling Nozh to quit his job, and for CCP to sack him etc... he's just a normal person doing his job. However, the community are upset because we were all happy and possibly excited by the capital changes that were coming to Dominion, and we had all tested them out and helped develop it with Abathur in charge... And then it seems, out of knowhere this all got scrapped and dumped away with no explanation and by a completly new person.
Nothing personal should be said towards Nozh in all fairness, this is a game afterall... But lets hope for the sake of the expansion that all the hard work and feedback that was put into Abathurs work is reinstated and will be implemented on patch day....
Im off to Nandos and then the Cinema (IRL).... HAVE A GOOD EVENING !
|
Jason Philyra
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:11:00 -
[1169]
Nozh, I wont go on about my own experiences as a game designer, but I will say that this devlog doesn't make me excited for the future of cap/supercap warfare in EVE. It is pretty easy to say that everyone before me was wrong and now I am going to fix the game. That kind of attitude can get a lot of good changes into the game quickly, but it usually messes up at least as much as it fixes.
I really would like to see you spend more time in the game and evaluate some of the things you take as fact about capital ships. I personally do not agree with a lot of your conclusions, but I look forward to either being proven wrong, or having you come to my conclusions. This is your game and you know best, but remember that we are the people who choose to play in it.
|
Matrix Aran
Reikoku
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:13:00 -
[1170]
I doubt e-mails to devs or messages to internal affairs on thier own will do much to convince someone eho isn't Nozh to speak on this issue, but with any luck this "vocal minority" can continue to pressure the devs until finaly someone other than Nozh steps up and adresses the issue.
----
|
|
|
Arra Lith
HUSARIA
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:13:00 -
[1171]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
I would add this:
* Citadel Torpedoes skill renamed to Citadel Missiles
* Citadel Missiles allows usage of both Citadel Cruise Missile Launcher and Citadel Torpedo Launcher (no new skill introduced, so skill-wise missiles need roughly samo amount of SP as gunnery weapon systems)
That would be perfect solution.
|
Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:13:00 -
[1172]
about the 1500 torp explo radius, i agree it should be 1000m but i jsut dont have any believe that ccp will do this. trying to go for some kind of compromise. I think the Phoenix should get a 5% all damage time bonus though to compensate some. |
The Kan
Gallente
Evolution
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:13:00 -
[1173]
Originally by: The Mittani
The danger of taking a position of 'democracy' and 'transparency' - by creating the CSM to allow for player feedback, having devs interact with players at length at Fanfest, and then having a multiple-week process on SiSi for players to provide input on supercapital reform - is that now the playerbase expects CCP to behave in an accountable way.
Arbitrary, incompetent and uninvited changes decided behind closed doors are not a sign of 'excellence', nor are they the kind of behavior that the playerbase will tolerate from the 'new, reformed CCP' - the supposedly democratic, transparent company that listens to its clients, in the aftermath of the previous unpleasantness.
In theory - based on what CCP told us at Fanfest - they use the 'Scrum' development method. However, given how Nozh has unilaterally altered motherships (first 6bn isk, then they can dock, now nothing changing at all) it seems apparent that Nozh himself is able to make these abrupt switches in capital design without any restraint or consensus from the Scrum process.
The CSM is hardly happy about these changes. You can find posts from many of the CSM reps lambasting this idiocy. They are our representatives, democratically elected in a process CCP intended to bring more accountability to the company. Yet where is their impact on Nozh?
Transparency, democracy, player consensus and Scrum - all abandoned. Thank for your help, Nozh!
mittani, stop posting allready, i HATE to agree with you
|
Battle Tested
Shiva
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:14:00 -
[1174]
Originally by: Ravenid
Edited by: Ravenid on 20/11/2009 19:12:05
Love this quote from mmorpg.com
Quote:
MMORPG.com: Talk about the recent changes to the Massive Super Carrier. Many players are calling it a nerf. Can you set the record straight? Noah Ward: Unlike most other MMORPGs, with EVE we try to give every class of ship a clear role. It's not a simple game of bigger is better. It's more like a complex and nuanced game of Rock/Paper/Scissors. Unfortunately the poor Supercarrier (previously known as Mothership) never had a clear role much like the lion in Wizard of Oz didn't have a heart. They occupy a space between the massive Titans and the more ubiquitous Carrier class of ship without really standing out on their own. We wanted to improve this situation, find their true role and make them something pilots would be proud to fly; enter Fighter Bombers. Fighter Bombers are anti-capital weapons that launch big dumb warheads that do a lot of damage but have trouble hitting the broad side of a battleship. We like the direction things are heading and the models look damn cool but we're still not 100% sure the changes are achieving what we want to achieve. This is why the changes to Motherships/Supercarriers are being deferred and won't go out in Dominion 1.0. We're going to continue to play test both internally and on our public test servers. We're going to continue to talk to players. We're going to follow the yellow brick road and we're going to find the unique role these ships fill which will hopefully make the largest number of people happy.
This is amazing how they sugar coated thier lack of action towards an issue that is basically 2 years old. The mothership is still just a f'n unusable trophy. |
casai
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:15:00 -
[1175]
i like how they say were going to continue to talk to players
|
Shredded
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:18:00 -
[1176]
Edited by: Shredded on 20/11/2009 19:20:06
So let me get this straight:
In a model example of openness and play cooperation, Players work with CCP to develop new changes for capital/supercapital ships, including full dialogue back and forth, These changes are then put into place on the test server, tested, tweaked slightly, then tested more, For months, until everyone is pretty pleased with the results -
And then at the last moment this CCP Nozh guy shows up, nixes all the changes, posts his own bizarre ideas of how 0.0 and capital warfare should happen, and ignores everyone?
No wait, he responds to everyone with a bunch of gibberish and points to pretty graphs which prove himself wrong?
Did I pretty much get this straight?
Originally by: Digital Gaidin
Originally by: casai
i like how they say were going to continue to talk to players
Well, maybe they count us yelling at them... uh... talking
No they talked to us remember those pretty graphs? |
Digital Gaidin
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:18:00 -
[1177]
Originally by: casai
i like how they say were going to continue to talk to players
Well, maybe they count us yelling at them... uh... talking
|
Jack Gilligan
THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:20:00 -
[1178]
Originally by: T'Karr
I just want to put in a slightly more constructive post than i have done befor...
I dont think its right telling Nozh to quit his job, and for CCP to sack him etc... he's just a normal person doing his job. However, the community are upset because we were all happy and possibly excited by the capital changes that were coming to Dominion, and we had all tested them out and helped develop it with Abathur in charge... And then it seems, out of knowhere this all got scrapped and dumped away with no explanation and by a completly new person.
Nothing personal should be said towards Nozh in all fairness, this is a game afterall... But lets hope for the sake of the expansion that all the hard work and feedback that was put into Abathurs work is reinstated and will be implemented on patch day....
Im off to Nandos and then the Cinema (IRL).... HAVE A GOOD EVENING !
He only has himself to blame for the ill feelings, what with his ignorance and bad manners. He still won't answer the simple question of WHY the original changes were dumped after weeks of testing.
And, we, as customers have every right to ask that someone who is doing their job poorly to be sacked or reassigned. The Devs, after all, work for US, not the other way around. No subscribers=No paychecks.
I suggest assigning him the responsibility of revamping the noobships. Seeing as he's clearly never been to 0.0 much less fought in a capital, his experience might be more constructive on that project.
I strongly suspect that these nerfs and dumbing down of 0.0 have nothing to do with EVE as we know it and everything to do with Dust514.
|
Sin'tara
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:21:00 -
[1179]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
^THIS
I would also like to see the introduction of the first 'named' bomb for Dominion.
'Nozh' Lockbreaker Bomb: Emits random electronic bursts upon detonation that flood the targeting and navigation systems on all surrounding vessels with irrelevant graphs and data. Disables all modules and temporarily re-purposes all weapons with random effects.
|
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:22:00 -
[1180]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 20/11/2009 19:23:26
Let me make this nice and simple: CCP Nozh, you do NOT understand this game and the best thing you could do for EVE right now is submit your resignation at the earliest possible opportunity. This lame non-answer is not acceptable, we want an explanation for WHY you are removing Abathur's changes (which had near-unanimous agreement and significant player involvement).
Originally by: CCP Nozh
On Titans and Supercapitals that doesn't matter as their Signature Radius is already very large to begin with. Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.
This makes absolutely no sense. Entering siege/triage does NOT increase the amount of damage you take, unless you have added a signature radius multiplier to siege modules since we last checked. Please go ask one of the better-informed developers about how the missile damage formula causes a damage reduction even against stationary targets (like sieged capitals) if their signature radius is low enough.
Quote:
The Citadel Torpedoes don't do their full potential damage to Dreadnoughts, however they were balanced to do similar amounts of damage towards Dreadnoughts as XL Turrets with this in mind. Citadel Torpedoes have the ability to do more damage to larger targets.
Please go ask one of the better-informed developers to explain the tracking formula to you, so that you can understand why a sieged capital (therefore one with zero transversal) will take 100% damage from XL turrets.
Quote:
Graph: fighters vs. Phoenix
This is stupid as hell. Did you miss the part where you can not target paint a Phoenix? What could possibly make you think that it is a good idea to include stats for 15x fighters and 3x TPs?
Quote:
What I meant by this is that there aren't many situations where you get to fully utilize the short range weapons (especially the "6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I" and "Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I"), due to their poor optimal range and the fact that you can't dictate range while in siege mode. With high damage ammo on Tranquility, your damage output starts dropping rapidly at ~5km, in which case you might as well use the long range weapons.
Please leave the balancing to people who understand that in capital fights (especially those involving dreads and/or triage carriers), nobody is moving. The idea of "dictating range" in ships that move less than 100m/s at best is just hilarious, you dictate range with the placement of your initial cyno, not by moving your ship mid-battle. And guess what: if you drop a fleet on some sieged dreads at 5km, you are going to STAY at 5km.
-----------
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
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Impolite Andevil
The Shadow Knights
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:22:00 -
[1181]
Since apparently all our feedback is good for is making Nohz repeat himself, attempt to justify the changes that we unanimously agree are bad using graphs and statements that further show his lack of understanding of game mechanics (3 painters on a dread? Does the siege module increase sig radius now?), ignore criticism of some changes (nag?), and fail to explain why the changes we all agreed on are being scrapped in the first place, I have decided to speak with the only thing I hope they will pay attention to. Both of my accounts are now canceled with "changes made in the last patch" as the reason (since their is no "changes about to be made / ignoring the user base option), and the following text:
Since apparently the massive and unanimous negative feedback from players regarding the utter stupidity of the changes to dreads, titans, and motherships (i.e., not implementing Abathur's game plan) is being completely ignored, maybe this will get your attention. This toon was to be my mothership pilot. Now it and my main account are both going away. Maybe Mortal Online or Earthrise will actually listen to their players.
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Parovski
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:22:00 -
[1182]
Originally by: Shredded
So let me get this straight:
In a model example of openness and play cooperation, Players work with CCP to develop new changes for capital/supercapital ships, including full dialogue back and forth, These changes are then put into place on the test server, tested, tweaked slightly, then tested more, For months, until everyone is pretty pleased with the results -
And then at the last moment this CCP Nozh guy shows up, nixes all the changes, posts his own bizarre ideas of how 0.0 and capital warfare should happen, and ignores everyone?
No wait, he responds to everyone with a bunch of gibberish and points to pretty graphs which prove himself wrong?
Did I pretty much get this straight?
That and all of 0.0 agreeing with each other. Its like everyone in the UN coming together, joining hand in hand with their sworn enemy just to hate one person.
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Chicken Breasts
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:24:00 -
[1183]
Hey look, it's Nozh telling us "f u"
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casai
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:31:00 -
[1184]
5 DCU on a MS
i think someones been buying characters of ebay
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Darriele
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:32:00 -
[1185]
38 pages of continuous arguing about current capitals+ balancing/nerfing/boosting (whatever you may call it ) and only one village idiot (yes Nozah ) from CCP replying to this thread ( don't count the thread starter and poor Navigator )
To be freaking honest, after reading the entire thread and having in mind previous incarnation of sc and titans "boosts" makes me think that "our opinion doesn't count whatsoever"
Btw this "Dominion expansion" supersedes "the Nano nerf episode" in terms of " at WTF were you thinking at" :)
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fuze
Gallente
Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2009.11.20 19:33:00 -
[1186]
Originally by: Sin'tara
'Nozh' Lockbreaker Bomb: Emits random electronic bursts upon detonation that flood the targeting and navigation systems on all surrounding vessels with irrelevant graphs and data. Disables all modules and temporarily re-purposes all weapons with random effects.
The 'Nozh modified target painter' still has my vote.
Originally by: The Mittani
Where's the excellence?
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The Kan
Gallente
Evolution
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:35:00 -
[1187]
Originally by: Ap0ll0n
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
/Signed..
/Signed
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Jack Gilligan
THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY
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Posted - 2009.11.20 19:35:00 -
[1188]
Originally by: Impolite Andevil
Since apparently all our feedback is good for is making Nohz repeat himself, attempt to justify the changes that we unanimously agree are bad using graphs and statements that further show his lack of understanding of game mechanics (3 painters on a dread? Does the siege module increase sig radius now?), ignore criticism of some changes (nag?), and fail to explain why the changes we all agreed on are being scrapped in the first place, I have decided to speak with the only thing I hope they will pay attention to. Both of my accounts are now canceled with "changes made in the last patch" as the reason (since their is no "changes about to be made / ignoring the user base option), and the following text:
Since apparently the massive and unanimous negative feedback from players regarding the utter stupidity of the changes to dreads, titans, and motherships (i.e., not implementing Abathur's game plan) is being completely ignored, maybe this will get your attention. This toon was to be my mothership pilot. Now it and my main account are both going away. Maybe Mortal Online or Earthrise will actually listen to their players.
I'm back to playing SWG, personally, now that Pre-CU is available again via a player created server. I'm looking hard at Star Trek Online and Star Wars: The Old Republic.
Yeah, I was actually thinking of getting a mothership for my capital toon with the planned changes. Instead I no longer even want my capital toon, or the dread, carrier, and jump freighter I currently own.
Honestly, the only way to get CCP to listen, since they aren't going to read this thread, is to hit them where it will really hurt, their wallet. Cancel your subscriptions. Mine are, and they run out over the next couple weeks. I had planned on only taking a break until Dominion came out, now I don't know if I will be back.
Nothing puts me off faster than a horrible attitude displayed by a MMO publisher towards the customer, and these changes are feeling more and more like EVE's NGE.
I don't listen to publisher promises anymore after that one. I only observe actions. Never again will I accept promises that the "future will be awesome with what we can do if you accept these changes you don't want right now". That future awesomeness never happens. I accepted the Star Wars Galaxies "Combat Downgrade" to only get hit with the NGE 6 months later.
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cpu939
Gallente
Volatile Nature
Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:36:00 -
[1189]
Originally by: The Kan
Originally by: The Mittani
The danger of taking a position of 'democracy' and 'transparency' - by creating the CSM to allow for player feedback, having devs interact with players at length at Fanfest, and then having a multiple-week process on SiSi for players to provide input on supercapital reform - is that now the playerbase expects CCP to behave in an accountable way.
Arbitrary, incompetent and uninvited changes decided behind closed doors are not a sign of 'excellence', nor are they the kind of behavior that the playerbase will tolerate from the 'new, reformed CCP' - the supposedly democratic, transparent company that listens to its clients, in the aftermath of the previous unpleasantness.
In theory - based on what CCP told us at Fanfest - they use the 'Scrum' development method. However, given how Nozh has unilaterally altered motherships (first 6bn isk, then they can dock, now nothing changing at all) it seems apparent that Nozh himself is able to make these abrupt switches in capital design without any restraint or consensus from the Scrum process.
The CSM is hardly happy about these changes. You can find posts from many of the CSM reps lambasting this idiocy. They are our representatives, democratically elected in a process CCP intended to bring more accountability to the company. Yet where is their impact on Nozh?
Transparency, democracy, player consensus and Scrum - all abandoned. Thank for your help, Nozh!
mittani, stop posting allready, i HATE to agree with you
i know things are back when the kan agrees with a goon.
when is ccp nozh going to reply to our question of why are the changes wrong or his he hiding from that question get your finger out of your ass and do some replying not just your graphs.
basic rule 1 unhappy customer tells 10 people those 10 then tell 6 who then tell 4 thats 251 people knowing it (maths is 6*4*10=240+10+1 =251) that is ofcouse the old way now 1 unhappy customer tells 1000's with the internet this can lead to ess customers.
0101011 001101111 011011000 110000101110100 01101001011011000 1100101001000000 1001110011000010 11101000111010101 11001001100101
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Fire Hawk
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 19:37:00 -
[1190]
Quote:
"Titans"
As stated in the blog, Titans primary role should not be direct damage. We still feel like they need more defined roles, this will be worked on along with proper Mothership changes.
So you dont mind giving us 2 useless class of ships for 6 month? they also happened to be the 2 most expensive? Why cant a "SUPER CAPITAL" outdamage a regular capital? this is truely ******ed, everyone is telling you yet you choose not to listen.
___
Fear the french touch.
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lord cyrez
Caldari
Orbis Aeternitas
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:38:00 -
[1191]
first: i have to admit that i'm not too familiar with the recent turret/tracking formular changes - but my understanding is, that if the target does not move, the turrets sigresolution does not alter the equation, thus ships signature radius is no issue at all - as long as it doesnt move?
since no movement is the case for sieged dreads, the main target for other dreads, turrets presumably always hit for full damage?
anyway - i'm one of the shafted phoenix pilots, so i crunched the numbers for missiles.
-25% Signature Radius derived from a spec'd Claymore pilot.
-37.5% Signature Radius derived from a spec'd Ragnarok pilot.
Citadel Torpedo Explosion Radius: 2,250m
Ship/POSSigRadiusSig/ExpRadius-25% SIG-37.5% SIG
Revelation1700-24%-43%-53%
Phoenix1770-21%-41%-51%
Moros1740-23%-42%-52%
Naglfar1635-27%-45%-55%
Small POS1000-55%N/AN/A
Medium POS2000-11%N/AN/A
Large POS4000full dmgN/AN/A
Citadel Cruise Explosion Radius: 1,500m
Ship/POSSigRadiusSig/ExpRadius-25% SIG-37.5% SIG
Revelation1700full dmg-15%-29%
Phoenix1770full dmg-11%-26%
Moros1740full dmg-13%-27%
Naglfar1635full dmg-18%-32%
Small POS1000-33%N/AN/A
Medium POS2000full dmgN/AN/A
Large POS4000full dmgN/AN/A
so... shooting torps at any dread will net me -21% to -27% anyway?
a fifth to a quarter of my damage will *always* be lost?
and if the enemy fleet has some evasive maneuvers ganglink in it, maybe even on a non-minmatar command ship, i lose -41% to -45%?
a ragnarok doesnt show up that often, but might become flavored with this change, and would make things even worse. -51% to -55%. having any sig radius reduction going on within your enemy fleet encourages phoenix pilots to stay home and... dunno, spank NPCs.
if my assumption about turrets is true (sig radius irrelevant if target is stationary), theres no wonder why naglfar and phoenix pilots are checking in for the front row of your nerfbat roundhouse kick.
so... did you, nozh, or your associates, even run the numbers on this?
dreads shooting dreads while losing at least 20% damage anyway?
is this intended?
if yes: seriously... just reduce the torp base damage and adjust the explosion radius. easier calculations for the server, if you like torp users to be mitigated in damage anyway.
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Shigsy
Ignition.
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:38:00 -
[1192]
Edited by: Shigsy on 20/11/2009 19:39:06
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
Join "C&P" ingame! |
Mioelnir
Minmatar
Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:39:00 -
[1193]
Originally by: casai
i like how they say were going to continue to talk to players
They are free to do so, the likelihood of someone talking back just drops by the hour.
And I repeat my previously asked questions:
- who are you?
- what have you done to the Game Design Department at CCP?
- do you demand a ransom?
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Brynn Aeon
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:40:00 -
[1194]
Originally by: Zach Morgan
/signed ... don't bother to get him a leaving gift, and make sure to hit him with the door on the way out.
Fixed for ya.
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Cristym 04Commander
Gallente
DEATHFUNK
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 19:41:00 -
[1195]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
/Signed
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ZLOY KALBASA
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:41:00 -
[1196]
Originally by: paik
Originally by: Fire Hawk
Originally by: CWevers
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
/signed
CCP fire Nozh and give Abathur his job please... thank you!
Signed as well
THIS YES
/signed
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MarkusBarak
Gallente
Phantom Squad
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:41:00 -
[1197]
Originally by: Cristym 04Commander
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
/Signed
/signed
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Criss AngeI
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:43:00 -
[1198]
Originally by: The Mittani
The playerbase tested the new motherships over several weeks on SiSi and found them good.
Some genius put you in charge of Abathur's good work, and now you've not only screwed up all the effort that went into testing those ships, now there's to be no improvement at all.
Where is your credibility on caps? Who are you? Have you fought in a supercapital, lost a supercapital on the field?
Is this the new CCP, or the old CCP rearing its terrible, incompetent head?
rofl buthurt cap pilot
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Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:43:00 -
[1199]
Originally by: MarkusBarak
Originally by: Cristym 04Commander
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
/Signed
/signed
/signed again
(getting the point yet Nozh?)
|
Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:43:00 -
[1200]
Originally by: lord cyrez
so... did you, nozh, or your associates, even run the numbers on this?
dreads shooting dreads while losing at least 20% damage anyway?
is this intended?
Yeah sure it is! Just use target painters on those pos and sieged dreads and voila ... you'll have your full damage. Oh wait ...
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james56
FinFleet
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:44:00 -
[1201]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
/ Signed
|
Li Na
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:45:00 -
[1202]
Originally by: MarkusBarak
Originally by: Cristym 04Commander
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
/Signed
/signed
As a MS pilot for 9 months
/signed
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Agent Known
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:45:00 -
[1203]
Originally by: MarkusBarak
Originally by: Cristym 04Commander
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
/Signed
/signed
Following the /signed train
On another note, I also have an annoying sig.
inaftertimeflux |
lord cyrez
Caldari
Orbis Aeternitas
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:46:00 -
[1204]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: lord cyrez
so... did you, nozh, or your associates, even run the numbers on this?
dreads shooting dreads while losing at least 20% damage anyway?
is this intended?
Yeah sure it is! Just use target painters on those pos and sieged dreads and voila ... you'll have your full damage. Oh wait ...
oops sorry, totally forgot about target painters.
feel free to adjust any of my numbers by about 0%
|
Obsidian Hawk
Free Galactic Enterprises
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:47:00 -
[1205]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
/signed
Also, are you guys getting the hint? All the major 0.0 alliances are argreeing with each other (for once), hell even people are agreeing with Mittani and that is scary.
I still want to ask
Where is TomB??
We need you Obi Wan-CCP TomB and CCP Arbithar
|
LightSnow
Drunk GanG
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:50:00 -
[1206]
Originally by: Went Boom
At least CCP will never have any competition in the feild of space mmo's
oh wait
Jumpgate
Startrek (confirmed to have ambulation working right from the start)
Star Wars (true I can't figure out if you can fly spaceships in this one, but you can be a jedi)
Nope, CCP don't worry about keeping your customers, you have the market cornered on space MMO's, right?
the alternative is necessary to Eve, for dismissal of Nozg )
|
Klisejo
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:51:00 -
[1207]
Poasting on a Parachute to say that CCP NOZZLE Needs to get out
|
Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:51:00 -
[1208]
Edited by: Vadinho on 20/11/2009 19:51:00
too bad the assembly hall  mechanic doesnt work in this subforum or thered be a string of them behind kraken kill's post
|
Jarl Isensonn
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:51:00 -
[1209]
Originally by: Criss AngeI
Originally by: The Mittani
The playerbase tested the new motherships over several weeks on SiSi and found them good.
Some genius put you in charge of Abathur's good work, and now you've not only screwed up all the effort that went into testing those ships, now there's to be no improvement at all.
Where is your credibility on caps? Who are you? Have you fought in a supercapital, lost a supercapital on the field?
Is this the new CCP, or the old CCP rearing its terrible, incompetent head?
rofl buthurt cap pilot
Someone call Special Victims Unit, because I to have been molested by a GM.
|
Gimora
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:52:00 -
[1210]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
Why not just do what all pepole want?
|
|
|
Serj Darek
Minmatar
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:52:00 -
[1211]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
Signed
It really isn't this f***ing hard. Everyone has fine with the proposed changes, even the Titan pilots. My guess is a middle manager flew in low to s*** on the changes. At least grow a pair and try to implement changes instead of breaking two ship classes for several months!!!!
Teadaze for CSM |
Toman Torax
Rage For Order
Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:54:00 -
[1212]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Let's see...
"Target Painters Do NOT Work on Titans, Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps"
On Titans and Supercapitals that doesn't matter as their Signature Radius is already very large to begin with. Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.
The Citadel Torpedoes don't do their full potential damage to Dreadnoughts, however they were balanced to do similar amounts of damage towards Dreadnoughts as XL Turrets with this in mind. Citadel Torpedoes have the ability to do more damage to larger targets.
To illustrate how it would have worked with Fighter Bombers, you can take a look at these graphs:
"Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances."
What I meant by this is that there aren't many situations where you get to fully utilize the short range weapons (especially the "6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I" and "Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I"), due to their poor optimal range and the fact that you can't dictate range while in siege mode. With high damage ammo on Tranquility, your damage output starts dropping rapidly at ~5km, in which case you might as well use the long range weapons.
"Docking games"
We can all agree that docking games are, well, lame. But this problem is across all ship classes, regardless of their hit-point count. Thus, this problem has to be solved by some other means than to limit docking for the capital fatties. We'd like to work on other solutions for this problem.
"Titans"
As stated in the blog, Titans primary role should not be direct damage. We still feel like they need more defined roles, this will be worked on along with proper Mothership changes.
Serious and simple question - CCP PLEASE ANSWER THIS:
What was wrong with the changes Abathur proposed, which were tested, seemed fair and balanced, and were generally accepted?
|
Yilo
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:55:00 -
[1213]
Originally by: Gimora
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
Why not just do what all pepole want?
Signed
|
Glassback
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:56:00 -
[1214]
Originally by: The Mittani
Edited by: The Mittani on 20/11/2009 16:41:57
You have not addressed the issues of the community at all. For weeks, the Abathur version of motherships was tested; feedback was given from players and listened to by the devs. Broad consensus was achieved.
You have not provided a single rationale for abandoning the efforts of hundreds of players working in concert with Abathur and the other devs on the supercapital reform project.
Why is this being done? Why are you even here? Where is your credibility? You offer us 'fixes' for problems which do not exist.
The Abathur version of the supercapitals was the only one that was created with the input and feedback of players. That is what should be reverted to, and you remove yourself from the capital dev portfolio entirely.
Quoting for truth.
Also, WHO ARE YOU? Idiot.
|
Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:56:00 -
[1215]
Originally by: miltom
Originally by: Gimora
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
Why not just do what all pepole want?
SIGNED
/signed again and again and again
DO THIS
|
Commander Tigre
Minmatar
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:56:00 -
[1216]
Originally by: Khefron
Originally by: lord cyrez
first: i have to admit that i'm not too familiar with the recent turret/tracking formular changes - but my understanding is, that if the target does not move, the turrets sigresolution does not alter the equation, thus ships signature radius is no issue at all - as long as it doesnt move?
since no movement is the case for sieged dreads, the main target for other dreads, turrets presumably always hit for full damage?
anyway - i'm one of the shafted phoenix pilots, so i crunched the numbers for missiles.
-25% Signature Radius derived from a spec'd Claymore pilot.
-37.5% Signature Radius derived from a spec'd Ragnarok pilot.
Citadel Torpedo Explosion Radius: 2,250m
Ship/POSSigRadiusSig/ExpRadius-25% SIG-37.5% SIG
Revelation1700-24%-43%-53%
Phoenix1770-21%-41%-51%
Moros1740-23%-42%-52%
Naglfar1635-27%-45%-55%
Small POS1000-55%N/AN/A
Medium POS2000-11%N/AN/A
Large POS4000full dmgN/AN/A
Citadel Cruise Explosion Radius: 1,500m
Ship/POSSigRadiusSig/ExpRadius-25% SIG-37.5% SIG
Revelation1700full dmg-15%-29%
Phoenix1770full dmg-11%-26%
Moros1740full dmg-13%-27%
Naglfar1635full dmg-18%-32%
Small POS1000-33%N/AN/A
Medium POS2000full dmgN/AN/A
Large POS4000full dmgN/AN/A
so... shooting torps at any dread will net me -21% to -27% anyway?
a fifth to a quarter of my damage will *always* be lost?
and if the enemy fleet has some evasive maneuvers ganglink in it, maybe even on a non-minmatar command ship, i lose -41% to -45%?
a ragnarok doesnt show up that often, but might become flavored with this change, and would make things even worse. -51% to -55%. having any sig radius reduction going on within your enemy fleet encourages phoenix pilots to stay home and... dunno, spank NPCs.
if my assumption about turrets is true (sig radius irrelevant if target is stationary), theres no wonder why naglfar and phoenix pilots are checking in for the front row of your nerfbat roundhouse kick.
so... did you, nozh, or your associates, even run the numbers on this?
dreads shooting dreads while losing at least 20% damage anyway?
is this intended?
if yes: seriously... just reduce the torp base damage and adjust the explosion radius. easier calculations for the server, if you like torp users to be mitigated in damage anyway.
everyone quote this man because he is 100% correct
Quoting for truth!
"We Choose to listen to the lies we don't want to hear. The truth is, you're already dead." |
Klisejo
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:58:00 -
[1217]
Main Entry: get out
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: escape
Synonyms:
alight, avoid, be off, beat it, begone, break out, bug off, buzz off, clear out, decamp, depart, dodge, duck, egress, evacuate, evade, exit, extricate oneself, flee, fly, free oneself, go, hightail, kite, leave, make tracks, run away, scram, shirk, shun, skedaddle, split, take a hike, take off, vacate, vamoose, withdraw
|
Commander Tigre
Minmatar
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:58:00 -
[1218]
Originally by: Ralph42nd
Originally by: miltom
Originally by: Gimora
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
Why not just do what all pepole want?
SIGNED
/signed again and again and again
DO THIS
How many more times must this be brought up before someone intelligent (at CCCP) begins to pay attention?
"We Choose to listen to the lies we don't want to hear. The truth is, you're already dead." |
The Medusa
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:59:00 -
[1219]
I was violated by a GM and now I think I might have gotten Capital Aids
|
Darriele
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 19:59:00 -
[1220]
I've just learned (from incredible sources within SISIPI) that CCP Nozah was included by mistake into DEVS staff after faithfully serving the corp. for several years into WATERBOYS support staff.
|
|
|
Aizu Intaki
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:00:00 -
[1221]
The mechanics changes aside (I don't have the experience in game to address them in an informed manner), I'm bothered by the apparent lack of process behind them. From the outside it seems like one guy (CCP Nozh) is essentially imposing his personal reasoning on long informed and publicly tested changes to caps and supercaps in 0.0. From the outside it seems there is very little review of his directives, as evidenced by the apparent lack of understanding on how his changes are misguided, and would thusly be abused. Examples seem to include: Not foreseeing the station hugging that would happen with dockable supercarriers under the new sov system, and not convincingly understanding why the inability to target paint supercaps and caps in triage/siege mode imbalances the new cap weapon system proposals.
The net effect is to significantly lower confidence in CCP's development process. Were these changes not vetted before being announced and/or pushed to test? If so, why? Were these changes vetted and no one simply noticed the more obvious issues with them? That may even be worse, to be honest.
Explain, please; restore confidence in the process.
---
Advice to fix the current "EW doesn't work on supercaps" issue you've gotten yourself into: Make supercaps, and caps in triage/siege mode immune to all EW *except* target painters. Keep in mind, this is coming from a cap/supercap/0.0 noob, but I think you'll find it fixes that particular bugbear you've stumbled into.
|
Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp
Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:00:00 -
[1222]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
/Signed
Time to be serious, CCP. This ridiculous situation wouldn't exist if you were rational people.
_______
With the NGE, I''m sorry about the mistake we made. We screwed up and didn''t listen to the fans when we should have, and it''s not a mistake we''re going to make again.
|
Jonathan Priest
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:00:00 -
[1223]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
On Titans and Supercapitals that doesn't matter as their Signature Radius is already very large to begin with. Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.
umm this isn't true unless siege and triage give you an increased sig now. Unless you're talking about speed tanking caps???
Originally by: CCP Nozh
The Citadel Torpedoes don't do their full potential damage to Dreadnoughts, however they were balanced to do similar amounts of damage towards Dreadnoughts as XL Turrets with this in mind. Citadel Torpedoes have the ability to do more damage to larger targets.
Have you also considered the travel time of the missles (especialy the cruise) when balancing this?
Originally by: CCP Nozh
graphs
Ok, I've never flown a cap, but from what I've seen the only time a dread isn't in siege is when it's getting ready to leave (ie building cap, finishing off the last few hp of a tower) or fighting bs.
Since fighting bs won't be happening anymore (or at least I think that's your intention) I can't imagin a situation where a dread wouldn't be sieged when in combat. Please don't consider target painters when balancing capital weapons.
Originally by: CCP Nozh
But this problem is across all ship classes, regardless of their hit-point count
The outrage you got from your mothership changes was because it was more than a problem, it completely broke the new sov system by making outposts invincible.
|
Yilo
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:02:00 -
[1224]
CCP KEEP DELETING THE TRUTHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
ALWAYS HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
|
Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:02:00 -
[1225]
Edited by: Ralph42nd on 20/11/2009 20:04:16
Wow, way to nuke another page.
You do know it's being mirrored elsewhere right?
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
/signed again
|
Toman Torax
Rage For Order
Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:03:00 -
[1226]
And more post deletions...
Jesus H. Christ what a ****ing ****storm you have caused, CCP.
|
The Medusa
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:04:00 -
[1227]
Edited by: The Medusa on 20/11/2009 20:04:56
You are about to cancel your subscription!
Are you sure you want to do this?
Your account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 08.12.2009 19:51:15
Why are you cancelling?
This will help us to improve our service.
Player harassment
If you want to elaborate further on your reason for canceling EVE, we would appreciate it very much. (optional)
GM Nozh need to go.
---
Subscription successfully cancelled
Click here to continue
|
Hot Fudge
Minmatar
Sweet -N- Sticky
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:05:00 -
[1228]
I'm beginning to believe CCP has forgotten who pays their bills. I think they will start noticing when people start cancelling their subscriptions because they are so fed up from the lack of response in these threads and the upcoming changes in Dominion.
=========================
Sweet, sticky, and bad for your health. |
Kalexander
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:06:00 -
[1229]
All the pages in this thread really just go on to illustrate why we see even LESS communication between the development DEPARTMENT (yes I say department, anyone who thinks its just one dude in a cube F-ing everything up is ignorant) and the playerbase than we should. This is entirely too heated and shows lots of signs of misinformed users, and outright stupidity on BOTH ends really.
Yea, this dude who works at CCP signed in with a name Nozh on the forum, maybe he's a programmer, a producer, or a designer, or just a community monkey. All we really know about him for sure is that he is a representative of an agile methodology "scrum" team who's been working on this stuff. Maybe he doesn't play the game all that much and maybe when he got to work that day his boss told him to put this together so he figured "i know, i'll just use up some time with some dumb ass graphs" etc. And what we got is a really crappy dev post because of it.
But here are the Facts.
A. They don't like the direction of motherships... They are not biased.
B. We liked the direction of motherships... We are biased. (And it wasn't all championing and roses here either folks, not everyone was all that jazzed about the original changes presented by Abs either)
The players vision of the game CANNOT be the same vision as the developers. We see things through champagne coloured lenses, because WE are vested in them and we nerd rage when our expectations shift and change and our isk and our skillpoints go towards things we do not have control of in the end. We ultimately are only looking out for the immediacy, while the developers cannot be concerned with dudes dropping billions on motherships. They have to consider the long run.
Come on lets be honest, plenty of these dev blogs contain posts by some of the people even posting in here saying "Please dont do this yet, wait and do it right". Now here they are, taking a feature and actually doing what some of us suggested and we flame the **** out of them for it?
Now I just wish they would take the Dread changes and put them on hold as well....
|
Akay Quinn
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:06:00 -
[1230]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
Do this.
|
|
|
Commander Tigre
Minmatar
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:06:00 -
[1231]
Originally by: Ralph42nd
Edited by: Ralph42nd on 20/11/2009 20:04:16
Wow, way to nuke another page.
You do know it's being mirrored elsewhere right?
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
/signed again
and /signed again
"We Choose to listen to the lies we don't want to hear. The truth is, you're already dead." |
ERBOK
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:08:00 -
[1232]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
signed
|
Thrud Valkyries
Minmatar
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:09:00 -
[1233]
You are about to cancel your subscription!
Are you sure you want to do this?
Your account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 23.11.2009 23:59:47
Why are you cancelling?
This will help us to improve our service.
Player harassment
If you want to elaborate further on your reason for canceling EVE, we would appreciate it very much. (optional)
Thanks to CCP Nozh there is one less ms pilot in the game.
Thanks alot, CCP.
---
Subscription successfully cancelled
Click here to continue
|
Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:09:00 -
[1234]
Originally by: Commander Tigre
Originally by: Ralph42nd
Edited by: Ralph42nd on 20/11/2009 20:04:16
Wow, way to nuke another page.
You do know it's being mirrored elsewhere right?
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
/signed again
and /signed again
and again
/signed
|
Psycho Lordling
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:09:00 -
[1235]
You are about to cancel your subscription!
Are you sure you want to do this?
Your account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 27.01.2010 14:33:14
Why are you cancelling?
This will help us to improve our service.
Player harassment
If you want to elaborate further on your reason for canceling EVE, we would appreciate it very much. (optional)
What the h**L kind of morons do you guys put in your dev crew? Get rid of Nohz
Subscription successfully cancelled
Click here to continue
----
The GM's in here do not seem to care about the players, but I bet the guys in Accounting do.
|
Omara Otawan
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:09:00 -
[1236]
Confirming I'm cancelling my 31337 accounts due to this outrage. And my alt accounts too.
And this time I mean it. Really. Not coming back. Now you'de done it.
|
Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:10:00 -
[1237]
Originally by: Kalexander
Come on lets be honest, plenty of these dev blogs contain posts by some of the people even posting in here saying "Please dont do this yet, wait and do it right". Now here they are, taking a feature and actually doing what some of us suggested and we flame the **** out of them for it?
the titan changes went though, the mothership ones didnt
this means a mothership will now be able to be killed by two, maybe three titan shots
that seems like a pretty glaring oversight
|
Jack Gilligan
THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:10:00 -
[1238]
Originally by: Toman Torax
And more post deletions...
Jesus H. Christ what a ****ing ****storm you have caused, CCP.
Mass deletions and bans as a response to a highly unpopular publisher decision did nothing to help SOE with the NGE. In fact their actions made it even worse. They went ahead anyway and lost 200,000 subscribers within months.
I see Dominion, as designed, being the "thin end of the wedge" with respect to a "NGE" of EVE, dumbing it down, nerfing it to death, so as to make it compatible with their "target audience" dream Dust514. I suspect that even more outrageous deadline driven changes to EVE will be forthcoming in the next months, Dominion is only the tip of the iceberg.
Again, making such changes to an existing, hardcore MMO, which EVE is and SWG was, in the interest of going after players that you DONT have is almost certainly going to cost you players that you DO have. SWG crashed from having well over 200,000 subscribers to a state where they could increase their subscriptions 5 fold and not get back half of that. Do you want to lose 200,000 EVE subscribers just to attract 5,000 "konsole kiddz" that will dump your game into the used bin at Gamestop 3 months later?
History can repeat itself when people choose to remain ignorant of it.
|
Li Na
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:10:00 -
[1239]
Originally by: Commander Tigre
Originally by: Ralph42nd
Edited by: Ralph42nd on 20/11/2009 20:04:16
Wow, way to nuke another page.
You do know it's being mirrored elsewhere right?
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
/signed again
and /signed again
whoops sorry seems my voice was taken away somehow and my vote was lost in the mail
MS pilot for nearly a year how long have you flown in one you worthless POS
/signed |
Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Rough Necks
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:11:00 -
[1240]
Wow, 45 posts deleted alone while I was reading the last page. Yet the thread is still growing. At least Nozh is creating jobs for forum mods.
|
|
|
Orgell Evaan
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:12:00 -
[1241]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
/signed.
PS: The page count keeps bouncing around... I think there's a memory leak in the commenting system...
|
Yilo
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:13:00 -
[1242]
Your account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 08.12.2009 20:05:14
Why are you cancelling?
This will help us to improve our service.
Player harassment
If you want to elaborate further on your reason for canceling EVE, we would appreciate it very much. (optional)
CAPITALS ARE ******ED.
copying a good idea
|
Commander Tigre
Minmatar
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:14:00 -
[1243]
Oops there goes more posts that are relevant and constructive to this very game changing decision.
Long live CCCP!
"We Choose to listen to the lies we don't want to hear. The truth is, you're already dead." |
Ronja Mistysdottir
The Treehugger Corp
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:14:00 -
[1244]
You are about to cancel your subscription!
Are you sure you want to do this?
Your account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 03.12.2009 18:38:48
Why are you cancelling?
This will help us to improve our service.
Player harassment
If you want to elaborate further on your reason for canceling EVE, we would appreciate it very much. (optional)
Forcing us to bug test and fix the supercaps, just to kill it with a GM that knows nothing about the game? :CONDI:
Nozh, costing the stock holders buckets of money every day...
No wonder Icelands economy went to hell with people like this..
|
Hot Fudge
Minmatar
Sweet -N- Sticky
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:14:00 -
[1245]
It will be funny if this thread becomes a thread of account cancellation copy and pastes, lol.
=========================
Sweet, sticky, and bad for your health. |
Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:15:00 -
[1246]
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
Originally by: Toman Torax
And more post deletions...
Jesus H. Christ what a ****ing ****storm you have caused, CCP.
Mass deletions and bans as a response to a highly unpopular publisher decision did nothing to help SOE with the NGE. In fact their actions made it even worse. They went ahead anyway and lost 200,000 subscribers within months.
I see Dominion, as designed, being the "thin end of the wedge" with respect to a "NGE" of EVE, dumbing it down, nerfing it to death, so as to make it compatible with their "target audience" dream Dust514. I suspect that even more outrageous deadline driven changes to EVE will be forthcoming in the next months, Dominion is only the tip of the iceberg.
Again, making such changes to an existing, hardcore MMO, which EVE is and SWG was, in the interest of going after players that you DONT have is almost certainly going to cost you players that you DO have. SWG crashed from having well over 200,000 subscribers to a state where they could increase their subscriptions 5 fold and not get back half of that. Do you want to lose 200,000 EVE subscribers just to attract 5,000 "konsole kiddz" that will dump your game into the used bin at Gamestop 3 months later?
History can repeat itself when people choose to remain ignorant of it.
Quoting this to add my posts to the mass posts that are being deleted.
****ing off your customers because your dumb is a bad idea, censoring them cause they are mad at your bad ideas is worse.
Look forward to chapter 11 idiots
|
Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:15:00 -
[1247]
Originally by: Catari Taga
Wow, 45 posts deleted alone while I was reading the last page. Yet the thread is still growing. At least Nozh is creating jobs for forum mods.
this thread would already be longer than the 'ccp doesnt know how nullsec works' thread from a few weeks back if they werent deleting pages of posts
|
Cedori
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:15:00 -
[1248]
The amusing part IMO, they are deleting the posts of people who are posting that they are canceling.
Really? We truly have converted the EvE Forums into lokta.org, the circle is now complete.
It is obvious Nozh has no idea how the game operates, nor how cap/supercap battles happen. As such he should not be within 10,000km of any decision regarding caps/supercaps.
This post represents the views of me, myself, and I. Nothing said should be attributed to my corp or alliance, otherwise I might be whipped with a strand of wet-spaghetti! |
Toman Torax
Rage For Order
Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:17:00 -
[1249]
DELETING
POSTS
ISN'T
HELPING
quite the opposite
|
cpu939
Gallente
Volatile Nature
Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:17:00 -
[1250]
ccp you do know by deleting post that you are adding fuel to the fire, best way to get this over and done with is the adult way and tell us why you feel the changes to the moms should not happen other than its not what we want as the titan is not what you want but it is still going ahead is it due to the ninja nerf and the other threads. is it a case of you complain you don't get anything.
we want to know why you are now doing these changes after all the hours of test/feedback done by the players in order to help you is that so worng we spent time to try and help you and you kick us for it.
why are you not just going ahead with the changes then once out you can nerf them.
the changes to missiles is just wack.
there are load of us here doing post with information but you still have yet to tell us why your not doing these changes other then yes we wasted your time cos we changed our minds tought luck.
ccp be smart talk to us tell us what you want allow us to reply and not just dev blog that have wrong information in it
0101011 001101111 011011000 110000101110100 01101001011011000 1100101001000000 1001110011000010 11101000111010101 11001001100101
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Fufinski
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Posted - 2009.11.20 20:18:00 -
[1251]
Originally by: Cedori
The amusing part IMO, they are deleting the posts of people who are posting that they are canceling.
Really? We truly have converted the EvE Forums into lokta.org, the circle is now complete.
It is obvious Nozh has no idea how the game operates, nor how cap/supercap battles happen. As such he should not be within 10,000km of any decision regarding caps/supercaps.
Maybe he's family to some CEO's I've had in different jobs. Maybe they're trying to can all the operation and move everything to MUD221 or whatever that other thing they're getting ready is called.
Tell us, were you ordered to do this by someone in CCP or are you doing this following orders from someone in the competition?
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Riflektshon
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:19:00 -
[1252]
They are not deleting posts its a forum roll back
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Shredded
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:19:00 -
[1253]
HEY CCP! KEEP DELETING POSTS!
The playerbase will be happy if you can't hear them being unhappy, right?
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Commander Tigre
Minmatar
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:20:00 -
[1254]
Originally by: Shredded
HEY CCP! KEEP DELETING POSTS!
The playerbase will be happy if you can't hear them being unhappy, right?
Confirmd!
"We Choose to listen to the lies we don't want to hear. The truth is, you're already dead." |
Kalexander
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Posted - 2009.11.20 20:21:00 -
[1255]
Originally by: Cedori
The amusing part IMO, they are deleting the posts of people who are posting that they are canceling.
Really? We truly have converted the EvE Forums into lokta.org, the circle is now complete.
It is obvious Nozh has no idea how the game operates, nor how cap/supercap battles happen. As such he should not be within 10,000km of any decision regarding caps/supercaps.
He probably doesn't. Lots of people who work on video games don't really play the project they're on. That doesn't mean the entire design team that settles on decisions is as clueless as he is though. One guy isn't given that much authority.
And yea, they probably delete those "i quit" posts because you and I both know those people are not really going to make good on it. They love this game still way to much to not at least see this through for a little while.
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Grim Savage
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:21:00 -
[1256]
You are about to cancel your subscription!
Are you sure you want to do this?
Your account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 26.11.2009 23:42:52
Why are you cancelling?
This will help us to improve our service.
Player harassment
If you want to elaborate further on your reason for canceling EVE, we would appreciate it very much. (optional)
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1217073
GM Nozh is making me sick.
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Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:21:00 -
[1257]
Originally by: Shredded
HEY CCP! KEEP DELETING POSTS!
The playerbase will be happy if you can't hear them being unhappy, right?
QFT
Keep deleting, never stop deleting, eventually we'll go away.
Add this to your corporate home page, I'm sure you'll be fine. Right?
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Darriele
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:22:00 -
[1258]
Quoting SISIPI Nozah from his previous failed blog: "As we said, roles are what matter. With these changes we hope to achieve a more balanced battlefield and synergy between the players and village idiots."
But who are the "village idiots" because they are many and so far there is only one ?!
have to paste my account cancelation to. SOONÖ
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Ravenid
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:22:00 -
[1259]
I'm thinking they just dont want the page count to hit 40 pages. It probably wakes up the Senior Management.
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Jack Gilligan
THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:22:00 -
[1260]
Originally by: Hot Fudge
It will be funny if this thread becomes a thread of account cancellation copy and pastes, lol.
Yeah, wish I'd pasted mine to Notepad. I had already canceled to take a month's break off as I said, as I am playing SWGEMU at the moment and was going to wait for Dominion to come out. But reading the Dev blogs of the past 2 weeks has pushed me towards not resubbing at all.
I got banned once on my way out the door from the NGE by posting that I would not resubscribe until Pre-NGE was reinstated and John Smedley was fired. I'm thinking that I won't want to consider coming back to EVE until Nozh is fired.
Well, maybe not fired, but at least demoted to something within his ability, such as CTRL+V'ing "Our logs show nothing" into petition responses.
I'm beginning to think that CCP expanded way too fast. They hired just any old "Dev" to bulk up their numbers and didn't have much of a screening for competence, as evidenced by Nozh's ignorant writings about capital fights.
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Rough Necks
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:22:00 -
[1261]
Originally by: Cedori
The amusing part IMO, they are deleting the posts of people who are posting that they are canceling.
No they are deleting at random now. I still have some pages open in another browser window and what got deleted is completely at random, even posts simply agreeing with lord cyrez' citadel torp damage calculations post got deleted. It's pretty funny to see CCP so desperate that they simply try to keep the thread small.
Expecting this post to go away as well.
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Commander Tigre
Minmatar
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:22:00 -
[1262]
Originally by: Kalexander
Originally by: Cedori
The amusing part IMO, they are deleting the posts of people who are posting that they are canceling.
Really? We truly have converted the EvE Forums into lokta.org, the circle is now complete.
It is obvious Nozh has no idea how the game operates, nor how cap/supercap battles happen. As such he should not be within 10,000km of any decision regarding caps/supercaps.
He probably doesn't. Lots of people who work on video games don't really play the project they're on. That doesn't mean the entire design team that settles on decisions is as clueless as he is though. One guy isn't given that much authority.
And yea, they probably delete those "i quit" posts because you and I both know those people are not really going to make good on it. They love this game still way to much to not at least see this through for a little while.
They still have till the end of their subscriptions (assuming they are not banned for that bit of remaining time...
"We Choose to listen to the lies we don't want to hear. The truth is, you're already dead." |
Orgell Evaan
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:23:00 -
[1263]
So my spending months training for a Nag is wasted; I have to go through the entire Amarr ship tree, and the Lasers tree, to be effective in cap combat? Wonderful. At least I haven't wasted time training for Carriers yet.
Buring your head in the sand and burying feedback helping with the New Pilot Experience, guys?
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Eric Starym
Koshaku
Antaeus Combine
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:23:00 -
[1264]
Edited by: Eric Starym on 20/11/2009 20:24:00
Originally by: Cedori
It is obvious Nozh has no idea how the game operates, nor how cap/supercap battles happen. As such he should not be within 10,000km of any decision regarding caps/supercaps.
Isn't that somewhere near Atlanta or Shanghai?
Dust needs help, Nozh is the right guy, assign him there!
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Shredded
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:25:00 -
[1265]
I regret that I have but one post to give for this thread. :(
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Shredded
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:26:00 -
[1266]
Oh wait I've got two lol
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Ker HarSol
Minmatar
Zip - I
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:27:00 -
[1267]
Maybe we can have SOME numbers at least? Yes? Please?
Stop posting stupid assumptions which are anyway all wrong and stop posting those **** graphs!
Give numbers! Hard, solid facts. Numbers!
Start with the tracking of guns. Speed of the various missiles. Explosive velocity, radius. DD cooldown. Boni of the ships. And and and.
Give us something real instead of this irreal sort of rabble talk. What is a devblog for if not for giving information?? If I all need to pick it up from the test server my own anyway, I do not need any freaking blog.
Oh, and answer please: Why were Abathur's changes discarded? What was wrong with them? |
FOl2TY8
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:27:00 -
[1268]
Edited by: FOl2TY8 on 20/11/2009 20:28:08
Still playing L4D2.
AND LOVING IT
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Thrud Valkyries
Minmatar
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:27:00 -
[1269]
Hey you know what.....
I can post it again if you like it so much that you delete it.
Its just fact.
Why pay for something that doesnt work?
"You are about to cancel your subscription!
Are you sure you want to do this?
Your account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 23.11.2009 23:59:47
Why are you cancelling?
This will help us to improve our service.
Player harassment
If you want to elaborate further on your reason for canceling EVE, we would appreciate it very much. (optional)
Thanks to CCP Nozh there is one less ms pilot in the game.
Thanks alot, CCP.
---
Subscription successfully cancelled
Click here to continue" |
Jack Gilligan
THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:27:00 -
[1270]
Originally by: Ravenid
I'm thinking they just dont want the page count to hit 40 pages. It probably wakes up the Senior Management.
It's like this thread is Jack Benny (a famous and very funny comedian from the golden age of radio). One of his standing jokes was that he was "turning 39". Every one of his birthdays was his "39th".
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Toman Torax
Rage For Order
Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:27:00 -
[1271]
Serious and simple question - CCP PLEASE ANSWER THIS:
What was wrong with the changes Abathur proposed, which were tested, seemed fair and balanced, and were generally accepted?
I'm going to keep posting this until it gets an answer. And for the love of God, it's doesn't have to be Nozh that answers it, because he has already shown that he has NO concept of how capital ships ACTUALLY OPERATE. Throwing spreadsheet stats around DOES NOT HELP - you have completely disproven your credibility by thinking that sieged dreads, supercaps, etc can be target painted, as well as all of your other banalities.
PLEASE, can SOMEONE in CCP answer my question above?
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Cedori
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:28:00 -
[1272]
Reposting the cancellation post of a corpie who has now been account banned from the forums.
Quote:
2009.11.20 20:25 You are about to cancel your subscription!
Are you sure you want to do this?
Your account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 23.11.2009 23:59:47
Why are you cancelling?
This will help us to improve our service.
Player harassment
If you want to elaborate further on your reason for canceling EVE, we would appreciate it very much. (optional)
Thanks to CCP Nozh there is one less ms pilot in the game. Thanks alot, CCP. --- Subscription successfully cancelled Click here to continue
This post represents the views of me, myself, and I. Nothing said should be attributed to my corp or alliance, otherwise I might be whipped with a strand of wet-spaghetti! |
kittypaws
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:28:00 -
[1273]
Originally by: Shredded
HEY CCP! KEEP DELETING POSTS!
The playerbase will be happy if you can't hear them being unhappy, right?
Go go here we have all the post's ;) it's over 40 pages already
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1217073/page/40
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Morphisat
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:29:00 -
[1274]
Well we reached 40 now anyway ;). And deleting posts ? Seriously ?
Somewhere within the CCP organisation is starting to go awry !
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Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:31:00 -
[1275]
Quote:
Hey you know what.....
I can post it again if you like it so much that you delete it.
Its just fact.
Why pay for something that doesnt work?
"You are about to cancel your subscription!
Are you sure you want to do this?
Your account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 23.11.2009 23:59:47
Why are you cancelling?
This will help us to improve our service.
Player harassment
If you want to elaborate further on your reason for canceling EVE, we would appreciate it very much. (optional)
Thanks to CCP Nozh there is one less ms pilot in the game.
Thanks alot, CCP.
---
Subscription successfully cancelled
Click here to continue"
Quote:
2009.11.20 20:25 You are about to cancel your subscription!
Are you sure you want to do this?
Your account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 23.11.2009 23:59:47
Why are you cancelling?
This will help us to improve our service.
Player harassment
If you want to elaborate further on your reason for canceling EVE, we would appreciate it very much. (optional)
Thanks to CCP Nozh there is one less ms pilot in the game. Thanks alot, CCP. --- Subscription successfully cancelled Click here to continue
Quote:
You are about to cancel your subscription!
Are you sure you want to do this?
Your account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 03.12.2009 18:38:48
Why are you cancelling?
This will help us to improve our service.
Player harassment
If you want to elaborate further on your reason for canceling EVE, we would appreciate it very much. (optional)
Forcing us to bug test and fix the supercaps, just to kill it with a GM that knows nothing about the game? :CONDI:
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New ones
Caldari
Koln united
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:33:00 -
[1276]
Subscription Status: Cancelled
Will be suspended12/18/2009
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Sidus Sarmiang
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:33:00 -
[1277]
Here's a post.
I want to offer a new perspective on what the original changes to supercaps would do for EVE. There are a variety of combat doctrines used in current alliance warfare. Current combat in EVE focuses on denial of resources (both in the form of R64s for the alliance space and ratting systems for individual members) and denial of space (in the form of capturing system after system) are the two major ones currently. Both share a common problem, they tend to be slow, as it is ultimately morale that causes one side or another to lose and this takes a long time to grind down.
Several years ago, however, there was a third doctrine which determined how wars would end as much as the other two. This was the idea of a decisive battle. The ASCN/LV/etc loss to RA in their home system with the destruction of several dreadnaughts, the ASCN titan death by BoB, and the abortion of LV's titan are good examples. Originally, the loss of a few dozen battleships or a handful of dreadnaughts could be considered decisive. This doctrine had a variety of advantages. It made warfare faster and more dynamic, it separated it somewhat from the resources either side could bring to bear (since even if one side was outnumbered, if they had more forces or more skill at the right time they could win the war ie RA), and it made for truly memorable and interesting experiences that shaped EVE's history. The closest I think we've come in the last year to that would be the battle which culminated in Kenzoku retreating to PR-, but even that was not decisive as Kenzoku et al were able to continue the fight several months longer.
The reason why this doctrine has disappeared is pretty simple. It's just no longer practical to field a sufficient number of ships that the resources of an alliance would be significantly effected by their loss in most cases. This is not true in all cases; a poor alliance using their entire cap fleet might open the possibility for a decisive battle, but cap fleets owned by alliances in this position are not risked because the potential gains do not justify the risks. At the most, the poor alliance could gain an R64 or defeat an enemy cap fleet to gain an advantage (but not win the war), but they could also lose everything. In a fight between two wealthy alliances, the possibility for a single decisive battle is remote enough to be considered absurd.
The changes to titans and motherships had the potential to change this around. With a tier of ships above dreadnaughts, the possibility of escalating a conflict above a mere capship fight became possible. Imagine an enemy is sieging your POS. You have engaged their subcap fleet, they responded by bringing in dreadnaughts and carriers, you countered them with a hotdrop. You have a slight advantage, but one large enough to win.
Up until the original plan for Dominion, that would've been the end of it. You would win the battle, an important battle, but odds are the war would continue. The titan and mothership changes introduced a new possibility and level to the conflict. Instead of the battle ending with your victory, another cyno opens and suddenly five of the enemy's titans and twice that many motherships supported by repping carriers drop onto the field. The risks and the rewards of the battle have changed. The possibility to lose your dreadnaught fleet in a spectacular manner now exists, but in return the enemy has given you the chance to destroy a good chunk of their supercapital force, which, due to the cost and long construction time, compounded by the lack of sov 4, would effectively destroy them. In order to take advantage of this, though, you have to risk your own supercapitals and the possibility of crippling your own alliance.
This is a hell of a lot more interesting than any type of warfare before it.
You had a chance to give us this.
Instead you want to give us super-rorquals and 18 billion isk titan-bait POS-huggers.
Not cool, dude, not cool.
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Commander Tigre
Minmatar
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:34:00 -
[1278]
Another page bites the dusta...
"We Choose to listen to the lies we don't want to hear. The truth is, you're already dead." |
Orgell Evaan
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:35:00 -
[1279]
Originally by: Morphisat
Well we reached 40 now anyway ;). And deleting posts ? Seriously ?
Somewhere within the CCP organisation is starting to go awry !
Aaaaand, we're back down to 39. Buh-Bye!
|
Cedori
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:36:00 -
[1280]
/sings'
Don't stop, deleting!
Hold on to that feeling!
Titans, and supercaps oh'ooooooh!
Yeah, because silencing opposition by deletion of words works. . . ever.
This post represents the views of me, myself, and I. Nothing said should be attributed to my corp or alliance, otherwise I might be whipped with a strand of wet-spaghetti! |
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Klisejo
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Posted - 2009.11.20 20:36:00 -
[1281]
Look, the changes were fine. Just say your sorry and you were wrong. We'll forgive you.
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Rough Necks
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:37:00 -
[1282]
Originally by: Orgell Evaan
Originally by: Morphisat
Well we reached 40 now anyway ;). And deleting posts ? Seriously ?
Somewhere within the CCP organisation is starting to go awry !
Aaaaand, we're back down to 39. Buh-Bye!
Haha, you can delete my posts all you want CCP but you can't hide from the truth. Chribba should set eve-search to mirror this thread every 5 minutes or so, it should be over 60 pages by now easily.
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Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:37:00 -
[1283]
youre deleting reports of players unsubscribing their accounts ahahahahahaha you dont get it at all do you
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paik
Minmatar
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:38:00 -
[1284]
CCP Forum mods you will not win this forum war
Forum posters
Regroup: 21/11/09 08:00
Quotes > Memes > LOLNOZH's > Free Abathur's
Objective = page 60
________________________________________
LOLNOZHLOL |
Geddon4Life
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:38:00 -
[1285]
Originally by: CCP Fallout
What will happen to capital ships with EVE Online: Dominion? Get the skinny from CCP Nozh's newest dev blog.
Here is what I think of this:
You are about to cancel your subscription!
Are you sure you want to do this?
Your account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 13.12.2009 22:30:23
Why are you cancelling?
This will help us to improve our service.
Player harassment
If you want to elaborate further on your reason for canceling EVE, we would appreciate it very much. (optional)
seriously. Someone need to have the bosses look at the people working on cap ship changes and their incompetence. I feel REALLY ****ed by the fact that the people leading / fronting the changes (GM Nozh) to the customers (us players), do not even have basic insight into capital ships and their use.
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Morphisat
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:38:00 -
[1286]
Edited by: Morphisat on 20/11/2009 20:38:17
Originally by: Ravenid
Quote:
I'm thinking they just dont want the page count to hit 40 pages. It probably wakes up the Senior Management.
Hey look I was right!
Yep looks like it. Will it stay at 39 or will we go down to 38 ? Exciting times people !
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New ones
Caldari
Koln united
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:38:00 -
[1287]
Lol another page gone
eve-serch.com has all the post's
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1217073/page/40
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Hakaru Ishiwara
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:38:00 -
[1288]
Dear CCP,
All your clients are asking is for a straight-forward response to their questions on why the dog-leg turn was taken on mothership design so close to the expansion release.
Is there a legal, ethical or human resource-related reason blocking your response? I will take a leap and assume that the answer is yes. Otherwise, /me shakes head.
Also, I am seeing multiple pages disappear from this thread. Really? True, it is your forum and therefore your right to moderate as is desired.
And one of your lead game designers / producers, Noah Ward, has made the time to provide a fair amount of text to mmorpg.com, but is unable to allocate the time to address "the hard core players" (aka, current paying clients and potential viral promoters of CCP products)?
May I suggest a company-wide holiday bonus and gift?
I truly hope that you, as a seemingly forward-looking business entity, can work your way out of this community relationship quagmire.
Sincerely,
One befuddled customer.
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Master Akira
Child Head Injury and Laceration Doctors
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:38:00 -
[1289]
So guys, what's happening in this thread?
|
Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:39:00 -
[1290]
Originally by: New ones
Lol another page gone
eve-serch.com has all the post's
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1217073/page/40
it looks like eve-search isnt updating at the rate it should since theres a lot more posts that have been deleted that arent on that archive
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Shayleigh Snowflower
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:40:00 -
[1291]
Originally by: Geddon4Life
Originally by: CCP Fallout
What will happen to capital ships with EVE Online: Dominion? Get the skinny from CCP Nozh's newest dev blog.
Here is what I think of this:
You are about to cancel your subscription!
Are you sure you want to do this?
Your account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 13.12.2009 22:30:23
Why are you cancelling?
This will help us to improve our service.
Player harassment
If you want to elaborate further on your reason for canceling EVE, we would appreciate it very much. (optional)
seriously. Someone need to have the bosses look at the people working on cap ship changes and their incompetence. I feel REALLY ****ed by the fact that the people leading / fronting the changes (GM Nozh) to the customers (us players), do not even have basic insight into capital ships and their use.
this seems like a smart guy.
---
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Klisejo
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:40:00 -
[1292]
I was looking forward to Dominion. Now I fear it. What other last minute changes will you make?
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Digital Gaidin
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:40:00 -
[1293]
To CCP: Back away from the delete button!
Is it really so hard to give a straightforward answer about WHY you chose to do something? Is there not a single developer (hell, even a community respondant) who can simply come on here, and I don't know... maybe answer a few questions and open a dialog?
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Gergragda
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:41:00 -
[1294]
Deleting posts is non-constructive
Disagreement is constructive
You can have a discussion or you can have censorship, they are mutually exclusive.
|
Greg DaimYo
Caldari
Biotronics Inc.
Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:42:00 -
[1295]
Originally by: paik
CCP Forum mods you will not win this forum war
Forum posters
Regroup: 21/11/09 08:00
Quotes > Memes > LOLNOZH's > Free Abathur's
Objective = page 60
Just to give some further intel: We'll be hitting a CCP-Highend (Information-Portal-Region).
Also note: This is a fullscale-CTA. Every and all losses will be reimbursed, so I expect you to field all of your shiniest memes.
That is all.
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ProHulaDancer
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:42:00 -
[1296]
Originally by: paik
CCP Forum mods you will not win this forum war
empty quoting this |
Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:42:00 -
[1297]
NEVER STOP POSTING, NEVER STOP DELETING LEGITIMATE COMPLAINTS.
VOTE CCP FOR BANKRUPTCY 2009
[QUOTE] Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
Please keep silencing your customers because we disagree with you and yours. This tactic cannot possibly come back to bite you in the ***, or ***, or eve in your ***.
Every new player heard about t20 pretty quickly. Everyone will hear about this too.
If you would simply answer our questions and LISTEN to the FEEDBACK we HAVE provided YOU, this would be water under the bridge.
You have a drooling idiot employed to balance the largest, most expensive ships in the game and he has ZERO (0, none, nadda, not a) clue how the game actually works. Can you explain to me why this is the case? Can you explain to me after the hundreds and potentially thousands of complaints you have received in this thread and other you have chosen to ignore us? Have your reprimanded this idiot in anyway?
Can you explain in clear concise english :words: why you are having issues pushing forward the changes the player base said was cool and wanted? Can you explain rationally why all these changes are being undone? Are we to believe you are going to change nothing about dominion aside from making 0.0 space less worth keeping and more worth quiting over? Also taking AOE DD's away from titans without an appropriate back up (what mom's would have been amiright) will see titans less used in battle than ever before, is there a reason behind this design decision?
All your ideas are stupid, childish, idiotic and shameful. At one point I as well as thousands of other players were looking forward to the big game changing patch, now we have to think about if it's worth resubbing for or not, and you don't care because we are saying bad stuff about you on your forum and your clearly in a PR stance of ignore it and maybe it will go away. Did the T20 threadnaught go away? Have your past ******ed blemishes gone away?
This thread has moved from it original topic to a demand for accountability at CCP Games, and if you can ****ing deal with that perhaps you should harden the **** up, and learn to play your own game, because you'll be the only people on the planet with a copy of it on your computers.
Fire that ****** Nozh, implement the changes the players tested and said were cool and were working. Else explain why not.
And don't post in this thread again with a warning about trolling and spamming when you won't answer what you have been asked. [/QUOTE]
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gobbie
Transgenic Cybernetics
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:42:00 -
[1298]
BANANAS ARE TOTALLY UNRELIABLE
|
Cedori
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:42:00 -
[1299]
Originally by: Gergragda
Deleting posts is non-constructive
Disagreement is constructive
You can have a discussion or you can have censorship, they are mutually exclusive.
Quoting this, and posting it every time more posts are deleted. And I feel pretty dirty quoting a Goon.
This post represents the views of me, myself, and I. Nothing said should be attributed to my corp or alliance, otherwise I might be whipped with a strand of wet-spaghetti! |
EvilweaselSA
Weasel Enterprises Ltd
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:42:00 -
[1300]
You guys seem to be missing a pretty key part of what's going on here: nobody agrees with your decision that the abathur version of motherships was flawed, and you've made no case for why. Without explaining exactly why you started changing them to begin with after they had been perfected (and having that explanation make a great deal of sense), there is going to be no letup no matter how many posts you delete.
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Toman Torax
Rage For Order
Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:43:00 -
[1301]
"We don't like this response"
*delete* *delete* *delete* *delete*
Do you guys not even get what a Star Wars Galaxies NGE scenario you're developing here?
Go look up what happened with SWG NGE, and the fallout that ensued. Here's a starter:
We've learned a thing or two with our experiences with the NGE and don't plan on repeating mistakes from the past and not listening to the players.
ùJohn Smedley, president of Sony Online Entertainment
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Zun Da
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:43:00 -
[1302]
Originally by: Morphisat
Well we reached 40 now anyway ;)
In your dreams! They are deleting posts faster than you can imagine.
The really sad thing though is that instead of sitting in front of their computers scanning posts frenzily they really should have alarmed some people at CCP who has some responsibility and started talking with them.
I mean, isn't it obvious that something is really WRONG with the whole Dominion expansion and that a large part of the playerbase is really uphappy about that? And that it becomes worse and worse from every blog?
Shouldn't people be really alarmed and discuss and talk and think about it instead of kicking up the watch-dogs to delete all the crap-posts? Yeah yeah I know, forum moderation discussion is not allowed. But think about it!
Try to spend the time thinking about what is WRONG.
Also, why is there only ONE reply in almost 24 hours? It is obvious that there is real concern and worrying, ALL the alliances who are doing capital stuff UNITEDLY say that something is wrong.
Why only one reply? And that reply was pretty incoherent, didn't answer a single question but instead answered some fake-questions which no one even asked or cared about. |
Kieselguhr Kid
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:43:00 -
[1303]
Originally by: Vadinho
youre deleting reports of players unsubscribing their accounts ahahahahahaha you dont get it at all do you
if they run out of unsubscription posts, they've won, amirite
trivia question: name one other internet spaceship game that released an expansion that broke the game and deleted posts about it
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Orgell Evaan
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.11.20 20:43:00 -
[1304]
Originally by: Master Akira
So guys, what's happening in this thread?
We're qualitizing our synergistic throughput through vectored visualizations of the paradigm.
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Klisejo
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 20:45:00 -
[1305]
If you want to be number one in customer service, you have to do a number of things that make you stand out from the crowd. Here are 7 ways that will put you on top.
1. Roll Out The Red Carpet For Everyone
If thereÆs one thing people hate about poor service, itÆs getting treated differently from others. It makes them feel inferior and second-class. Gary Richter says you should roll out the red carpet for everyone, but particularly those who donÆt expect it. ôI tell my employees, if we roll out the red carpet for a billionaire, they wonÆt even notice. If we roll it out for millionaires, they expect it. If we roll it out for "thousandaires" they appreciate it. And, if we roll out the red carpet for "hundredaires" theyÆll tell everyone they know.ö
2. Take Time To Know Your Customers
The fast pace of modern living together with advances in technology have together put a non-human face on much of our customer service. If you can find a way to re-connect with your customers one-on-one, youÆll strike a chord with your customers that will be like a streak of gold. Kathy Burns remembers a time when people took time to care and listen. ôSome of you may remember, and others may have heard stories about, a time in life when the doctor would come to your home to check on you if you were ill. Or maybe youÆve heard about going down to your local pharmacy and having the owner greet you by name and ask how youÆre doing. Not only did they ask, but they really wanted to know the answer and they took the time to listen to what you had to say. ThatÆs customer service û taking the time to know your customers, really caring about how they feel, and wanting to go the extra mile to make sure theyÆre happy.ö
3. Be Easy To Do Business With
One of the problems with modern businesses is that the systems we use to save time and money are often devised for the companyÆs benefit and not the customers. As a result, the customer experience is frustrating and difficult. Tracey Lowrance says this needs to be reversed. ôCustomers expect single source service. Customers donÆt want to be transferred to every unit of your business to have their problems solved. They want to be able to do business with you with the slightest amount of discomfort. You must be easy to do business with.ö
4. Go Out Of Your Way To Make Sure TheyÆre Happy
One of the most important things your customers want from you is a guarantee that your product or service will work. So move heaven and earth to make sure it does. Bob Leduc suggests you shouldnÆt make people pay until they are fully happy. ôInstead of offering a money back guarantee, a service business can provide a guarantee to solve the customerÆs problem. For example, a plumber can guarantee to come back without charge as often as necessary to stop the leak. A landscaper can replace without charge any plants that donÆt survive for at least 6 months. A sales consultant can continue working without charge until the promised sales results are achieved.ö
5. Notice What Customers See
A big part of what customers think about you comes from what they see and believe. Personal Selling Power noticed the following difference in two candy stores. ôAlthough two competing candy stores had the same prices, neighbourhood kids preferred one store to the other. When asked why, they said, ôBecause the person in the good store always gives us more candy. The girl in the other store takes candy away.ö True? Not really. In the good store the owner would always make sure to put a small amount of candy on the scale and then keep adding to it. In the bad store, the owner would pile a heaping amount of candy on the scale, and then take it off until it hit the right weight. The same amount of candy was sold, but perception is everything.ö
6. Work On Everything The Customer Experiences
The customer experience isnÆt just receiving the service or buying the goods. ItÆs about all the other little bits and pieces in-between. Such as the manner of the re
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Grillmeister Grim
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:05:00 -
[1306]
Do you really think that such heavy censorship is doing you any good?
Think about it!
Next days you will read at the online magazines
"MASS CENSORSHIP AT ALL OVER UNWANTED GAME CHANGES"
And the magazines will have no problem to find that 40%+ of the posts got censored and deleted.
Yeah, great greaaaaaaat PR. Think about it.
And what will you say then? "We were well within our rights to delete those posts." Oi, greaaat impression you make there. The PR-guys will soooo much thank you.
Don't you understand? A lot of players are unhappy.
LET THEM RANT AND COOL DOWN AND EXHAUST THEMSELVES.
If you delete stuff you only fuel them and they keep on and on getting more and more upset. You know how much damage a bunch of enraged nerds can do?
Just let them rant and exhaust. Then, after a while, some reasonable discussion can happen - hopefully.
But why is there no feedback from CCP? I mean, shouldn't be there some guys trained for such occurances? Come on, even a post like 'Hey guys, we apologize for the uproar and will look at all the stuff in detail again. Give us a couple hours and we will give you answers.' would help.
But nothing??
Strange. Strange to say the least. |
Ryan Powers
Caldari
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:05:00 -
[1307]
/waits for a CCP (preferably Abathur, the basement must be cold there) to "harden the f*** up" and explain to the masses wtf is going on here. ...and for all these posts to stop getting deleted. Just put 'Inappropriate content removed' or something. :[
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Narawen Blake
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Posted - 2009.11.20 21:06:00 -
[1308]
Failure cascade?
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Pyriine Maurete
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:13:00 -
[1309]
EXCELLENCE in stifling discontent with unjust and patently ridiculous rule.
SHUT UP AND GIVE US YOUR MONEY, YOU STUPID SUBSCRIBERS!
Nice job, CCCP! |
Helios Darksteel
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Posted - 2009.11.20 21:13:00 -
[1310]
Just noticed that deleting posts bumps all the current post ID's down so we don't see the post gaps. So while it "says" there are 39.* pages of posts (1199/30), there are clearly many missing. Creative way to hide censorship by coding... clever girl.
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Konoch
Caldari
Azriel's Legion
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:13:00 -
[1311]
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
Originally by: Fitz VonHeise
Quit whining like babies seals.
(course if I had a MS I would be 'whining' too)
Or a Titan, or (and this affects many more people) a Phoenix or a Naglfar ...
Not to mention anything else soon to be touched by devs who don't understand their own game mechanics.
And the fact that a ****TON of work by PLAYERS got thrown out the door with the baby water.
This isnt just bad PR this is borderline criminal. This is bait and switch bull**** and i dont think i'm going to pay for it. I've only been playing on this account for two months. But two years ago i left over simular bull****. I came back thinking maybe CCP did clean up its act. They got 72 hours to figure this **** out or i hit the cancel sub button permanently.
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Bilbo II
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 21:14:00 -
[1312]
Deleting posts is unconstructive
Disagreement is not unconstructive
You can have a discussion or you can have censorship, not both because they are mutually exclusive.
Maybe it is time to start petitions to ask questions they delete or just won't answer here.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.11.20 21:14:00 -
[1313]
Fight for your right to express your concerns to CCP.
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Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:14:00 -
[1314]
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
Originally by: Fitz VonHeise
Quit whining like babies seals.
(course if I had a MS I would be 'whining' too)
Or a Titan, or (and this affects many more people) a Phoenix or a Naglfar ...
Not to mention anything else soon to be touched by devs who don't understand their own game mechanics.
Or banned because they had the gall to speak up about it?
Or banned because they had the balls to complain about a dev?
Or banned just because they ever played eve in the first place?
This is sad CCP, really, really sad.
I look forward to watching you attempt to delete the outrage you have cause here yesterday and today at the farthest reaches of the internet.
You sirs are terrible.
Quote:
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
Please keep silencing your customers because we disagree with you and yours. This tactic cannot possibly come back to bite you in the ***, or ***, or eve in your ***.
Every new player heard about t20 pretty quickly. Everyone will hear about this too.
If you would simply answer our questions and LISTEN to the FEEDBACK we HAVE provided YOU, this would be water under the bridge.
You have a drooling idiot employed to balance the largest, most expensive ships in the game and he has ZERO (0, none, nadda, not a) clue how the game actually works. Can you explain to me why this is the case? Can you explain to me after the hundreds and potentially thousands of complaints you have received in this thread and other you have chosen to ignore us? Have your reprimanded this idiot in anyway?
Can you explain in clear concise english :words: why you are having issues pushing forward the changes the player base said was cool and wanted? Can you explain rationally why all these changes are being undone? Are we to believe you are going to change nothing about dominion aside from making 0.0 space less worth keeping and more worth quiting over? Also taking AOE DD's away from titans without an appropriate back up (what mom's would have been amiright) will see titans less used in battle than ever before, is there a reason behind this design decision?
All your ideas are stupid, childish, idiotic and shameful. At one point I as well as thousands of other players were looking forward to the big game changing patch, now we have to think about if it's worth resubbing for or not, and you don't care because we are saying bad stuff about you on your forum and your clearly in a PR stance of ignore it and maybe it will go away. Did the T20 threadnaught go away? Have your past ******ed blemishes gone away?
This thread has moved from it original topic to a demand for accountability at CCP Games, and if you can ****ing deal with that perhaps you should harden the **** up, and learn to play your own game, because you'll be the only people on the planet with a copy of it on your computers.
Fire that ****** Nozh, implement the changes the players tested and said were cool and were working. Else explain why not.
And don't post in this thread again with a warning about trolling and spamming when you won't answer what you have been asked.
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vile56
Amok.
Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 21:14:00 -
[1315]
Originally by: Gergragda
Deleting posts is unconstructive
Disagreement is not unconstructive
You can have a discussion or you can have censorship, not both because they are mutually exclusive.
empty quote and a paper tiger quote
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Ryan Powers
Caldari
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:14:00 -
[1316]
Edited by: Ryan Powers on 20/11/2009 21:14:54
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
The LAST thing they are going to do is actually explain themselves. Having built their stone walls, Nozh and CCP are going to hope they can withstand our trebuchets.
So load the trebuchets with corpses.
Serious question: So no changes will be made to mothership come Dominion. This includes the removal of clone vat bays, yes?
Julio: gimme links!
Note to self: This was on page 41 @ time of post.
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Cedori
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:14:00 -
[1317]
Originally by: Gergragda
Deleting posts is non-constructive
Disagreement is constructive
You can have a discussion or you can have censorship, they are mutually exclusive.
Quoting this, and posting it every time more posts are deleted. And I feel pretty dirty quoting a Goon.
4th Paste
This post represents the views of me, myself, and I. Nothing said should be attributed to my corp or alliance, otherwise I might be whipped with a strand of wet-spaghetti! |
Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:14:00 -
[1318]
Edited by: Fitz VonHeise on 20/11/2009 21:14:34
Originally by: Ezekiel Sulastin
Originally by: Fitz VonHeise
Quit whining like babies seals.
(course if I had a MS I would be 'whining' too)
Or a Titan, or (and this affects many more people) a Phoenix or a Naglfar ...
Not to mention anything else soon to be touched by devs who don't understand their own game mechanics.
Your right.
I'm sure glad I blew up my two Phoenix's for the plat insurance.
1.55b payout ftw.
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Mrs Trzzbk
Mothership Connection Inc.
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 21:14:00 -
[1319]
This is hilarious. I mean, this whole situation is amazing.
_________________________________________________________
it's good to have land
Trust me, I'm a Spacebert. |
Digital Gaidin
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Posted - 2009.11.20 21:15:00 -
[1320]
Originally by: Helios Darksteel
Just noticed that deleting posts bumps all the current post ID's down so we don't see the post gaps. So while it "says" there are 39.* pages of posts (1199/30), there are clearly many missing. Creative way to hide censorship by coding... clever girl.
I find that every time I hit refresh, the best thing to do is find an easily recognizable post and note the POST ID... check again when it comes back up what its at to determine number of posts deleted BEFORE the post and number deleted AFTER
I really hope their devs turned into forum mods to give time for a follow-up post to be re-written before too many accounts are cancelled, lol...
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Kyra Ivanova
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Posted - 2009.11.20 21:15:00 -
[1321]
You got to be kidding me CCCP.
How many pages are you going to delete before you realize what a HUGE MISTAKE it is to enrage the people that pays for your salary?
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CobraStylez
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:15:00 -
[1322]
»\(¦_o)/»
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ " " " ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿̿̿̿̿̿̿'̿'\̵͇̿̿\=((ò̪●))=/̿̿& |
Ironflint
Minmatar
Iron Age Industries
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:15:00 -
[1323]
Originally by: Athos Zel'tar
What is scary to me is that the players affected by this are some of the most dedicated in the game. It takes years to develop the character skills necessary to fly a mom or titan (yes I am very aware that alts can be bought, but I cannot believe most supercap pilots are purchased).
Over 90% of the stuff in Dominion does not even apply to me, yet I find that this complete disregard and disrespect for some of the most influential players in the game sets me back on my heels. If CCP is willing to treat you guys this way, then there really isn't a limit to how far they will go.
Think about that for a minute and tell me that doesn't frighten you.
I really believe that a senior dev coming here and answering some of the well thought out questions posted here will go a long way toward repairing the damage caused by these events.
Agreed, and feeling the same way.
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paik
Minmatar
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.20 21:16:00 -
[1324]
Originally by: Ironflint
Originally by: Athos Zel'tar
What is scary to me is that the players affected by this are some of the most dedicated in the game. It takes years to develop the character skills necessary to fly a mom or titan (yes I am very aware that alts can be bought, but I cannot believe most supercap pilots are purchased).
Over 90% of the stuff in Dominion does not even apply to me, yet I find that this complete disregard and disrespect for some of the most influential players in the game sets me back on my heels. If CCP is willing to treat you guys this way, then there really isn't a limit to how far they will go.
Think about that for a minute and tell me that doesn't frighten you.
I really believe that a senior dev coming here and answering some of the well thought out questions posted here will go a long way toward repairing the damage caused by these events.
Agreed, and feeling the same way.
________________________________________
LOLNOZHLOL |
Lolion Reglo
Demio's Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:17:00 -
[1325]
Edited by: Lolion Reglo on 20/11/2009 21:21:10
Forgive me from stealing the thunder of everyone.
Lets get back on the topic of mother ships here shall we?... i mean after all its good that we are reminding CCP the result of not listening to their customers and the fallout they could likely face if they had kept a lot of the changes they were thinking of implementing.
I urge you however to take solace in that they aren't releasing anything for Moms yet as they haven't screwed them up any worse than they are now. Yes they're an over sized trophy right now not having any real combat potential on the current battlefield. Yes it sucks that they arent releasing anything for dominion on moms even though we have been looking forward to it since they said they were.
This however gives us the opportunity to spend more time helping them fix the damn things so they get it right. So lets get back on topic?...
Here ill start things off. I'm sure other people have given ideas for how to fix mother ships in the past posts and i don't feel like going through the past 40 pages to sift
through whines about not listening to players to find them. to start with...
1. Give moms enough effective HP to avoid getting one shot'ed by a titan doomsday device. (reserve that honor for smaller ships like dreads)
2. (my own personal worry) Keep the same fighter bonus per level of +3 so they don't just become over sized carriers with a larger price tag. they're supper carriers they should be able to launch more fighters than carriers... Fighter bombers are different, so limit to control DPS as you see fit.
3. Drop the clone bay and let them dock. I say this because yes you'll have those morons station hopping but i thought the aggression timers stopped people from station docking for 15 minutes. The price to repair one of those quickly will also be a huge crap load of isk which i know i wouldn't have, i still gawk at the price to station repair my battleships. I shudder to think what a carrier or super carrier would cost. Not to mention yes they could be station camping but im sure you get a mom anywhere else and you wont have to worry about station hugging. You could also give outposts an upgrade to allow supper capitals to dock there if your worried about people docking too many. Maybe one per station per station upgrade?... just an idea im throwing out.
Reason why i think docking supper carriers is a good thing is it frees up the people who are idling alts to fly them and would make them that much more desirable than to have a character sit on one for eternity.
So now that i threw out 3 ideas ive either heard or have come up with myself i ask these to be torn apart by the community. the more we discuss ideas the more productive this thread can be fore the devs and the sooner those mom pilots will get their babies a new shiny job and we will see them fly once more.
SO POST IDEAS OR REPEAT IDEAS!!!!
if you think it is a good idea quote the author or link his post so the devs can see people support an idea. the more they see in idea the better chance they will remember it and perhaps who knows, INCLUDE IT!
reminding them to listen to us is fine. HEll CCP we pay your bills i would hope you do so,... but guys, seriously post an idea or copy pasta someones you like so we give the devs something to work with than just BURN THE WITCHES WHO WONT LISTEN TO US. and i agree that Abathur in his first capital blog had it down pat. Loved his ideas, and i wonder why those got changed.
But thats my .02 isk worth. I hope everyone follows suit else ne thinks the deleted posts will continue. or the beatings will until morale improves....rofl.
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Jack Gilligan
THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:17:00 -
[1326]
Originally by: Julio Torres
Theres now threads about the uprising against Dominion on several MMO related sites.
Won't take long before the "press" pick up on this.
LOL, Julio Torres :)
I still remember laughing my ass off when he appeared on "Attack of the Show" on G4 to demonstrate the "wonderful" NGE only to have what he was trying to demonstrate fail on live TV because SOE hadn't bothered to fix a bug that had been reported thousands of times :)
And, yes, the gaming "press" will pick up on this. CCP will be forced to do a 180' or they are going to face the wrath of the PO'ed geek mob. I still think this has to do with Dust514, because to otherwise risk the wrath of their existing player base makes absolutely no sense. I never thought Hilmar would morph into John Smedley.
I think CCP wants to dumb down EVE in order to benefit Dust514 and the massive money they think they are going to make off it. It's the only thing that explains Dominion.
Dominion= Capital ship downgrade, sov system consisting of "shoot the flag with your nerfed capitals for hours". I only see this game going backwards the day Apocrypha 1.5 is replaced with Dominion 1.0. The current game is better than what they are proposing.
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Frogman Henry
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:17:00 -
[1327]
Edited by: Frogman Henry on 20/11/2009 21:19:32
Post 1219
Start numbering your posts so you can see how many they are redacting.
On topic so you cannot "disappear" my post.
Dearest CCP please reconsider the changes made in that dev-post, they disregard much thoughtful design and feedback. Please fess up to why you are considering doing this.
Grovelingly yours,
Some Guy |
Sentinel Eeex
Caldari
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:17:00 -
[1328]
Dominion is actually going to be a Chrome browser, with some huge ****ty spaceship screensaver attached to it. |
Sidus Sarmiang
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:18:00 -
[1329]
At this point, I really hope you guys are working to formulate a decent response.
If nothing else, will you be giving motherships the hp bonus? There're other, huge problems, but this one alone means they will never be used just because titans can two shot them.
pg 41
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Helios Darksteel
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:19:00 -
[1330]
Originally by: Athos Zel'tar
What is scary to me is that the players affected by this are some of the most dedicated in the game. It takes years to develop the character skills necessary to fly a mom or titan (yes I am very aware that alts can be bought, but I cannot believe most supercap pilots are purchased).
Over 90% of the stuff in Dominion does not even apply to me, yet I find that this complete disregard and disrespect for some of the most influential players in the game sets me back on my heels. If CCP is willing to treat you guys this way, then there really isn't a limit to how far they will go.
Think about that for a minute and tell me that doesn't frighten you.
I really believe that a senior dev coming here and answering some of the well thought out questions posted here will go a long way toward repairing the damage caused by these events.
Assuming the questions haven't been deleted by the time they arrive.
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Strabo44
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:19:00 -
[1331]
How does it feel to be worse than SOE?
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Hrin
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:20:00 -
[1332]
Is excellent customer service really that rare?
Yes, it really is. Despite the fact that many companies tout their focus on service in advertising, the research we did showed that overall customer satisfaction is declining. A global benchmarking study we looked at showed a reduction in customer service satisfaction from 82% to 68% in the last year alone. Additional studies show that 68% of customers leave a business relationship because of a perceived attitude of indifference on the part of the company. It's not that the associates are actually indifferentùit's the perception that they are.
So a customer may get what she needs from the company, but if it was delivered with indifference, that interaction still won't leave a positive impression. Similarly, 63% of consumers said the last time they stopped doing business with a company it was partly or wholly due to a poor customer service experience. Another very similar study showed that two out of three consumers said they'd stop buying from a company if they had just one bad customer service experience.
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Kathraine Avila
Amarr
Biotronics Inc.
Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:20:00 -
[1333]
This is becoming pure hillarity.
CCP is relying on actions, they learned by their players ingame to be the most effective ways to handle a situation.
I am sure without the HUGE success that LOTKA VOLTERRA had in Eve, since they are ruling all of 0.0 in one way or another as I type this, CCP wouldn't have thought of heavy censorship in their own forums.
And it has proven to be an extremely method to actually make things go away, since when you delete a post in an internet-forum it is common knowledge, that it is gone forever.
Right, RIGHT?
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Sol Mortis
Caldari
Warsmiths
Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:22:00 -
[1334]
Undoing Abathur's changes is incomprehensible. They had been developed over a long period of time with lots of input from the community and players put a lot of time and effort into doing FREE TESTING WORK for CCP on the singularity server. The prevailing opinion after these tests was that the changes were good and people were excited about them, with many fewer nay-sayers than usual as there inevitably are with any major change.
I remember a long time ago when CCP was considering carrier changes that would make pilots unable to control their own drones, or only half of them. They didn't go through with it because it was horrible, but it made me decide that I would never train for a ship that required so much time and expense to fly when it could be ruined by a dev's whim. That was the best decision I've made so far in EVE, as I cross-trained all the racial sub capital ships instead and am now quite nerf-resistant. I think it is sad that players have to make decisions like that essentially because we don't trust CCP not to ruin the game for us.
Not as a personal attack on Nozh, but rather a statement of fact: He clearly does not understand the actual game mechanics as evidenced by the fact that he expects pilots to target paint Ewar-immune ships and structures, that he believes capital ship fights only happen at long range, and his general ignorance of how screwed the Naglfar will be. He didn't know what he was doing when he made the disastrous nano changes, and he hasn't learned anything in the last year.
The censorship of valid criticism and deleting posts you don't like is disgusting. Just because you opened an office in Shanghai doesn't mean you should behave like the Chinese government.
Liberate Abathur for the Little Dude. I guess emoticons are ok but not ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ because it symbolizes our dissatisfaction with a last minute change to a major feature.
-Sol Mortis |
III LightBringer
The Treehugger Corp
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:22:00 -
[1335]
came here to post something constructive about Nozh's blog.
This is the only good thing I read : "Every ship needs its niche"
From there on, it is just stupid. (partially except the boost to range on Pulse/Blaster/AC's)
However,
Now, boosting the range on P/B/AC so they outdamage B/R/AR out to 50'ish KM and have higher damage/tracking would not make things unbalanced. Once the close range dreads siege, they will get sniped and die in a fire. This is WHY cap fights normally are not at close range. That and the fact that the close range guns are not used is that close range DPS NEED a 30-40% boost.
And please. Back to the niche's..
Carriers: the new BS. A personal logistical masterpiece. Important to the players that like to toy around on their own...
Dreads: the fist of any empire in 0.0 space. Useless for individuals.
Motherships: ?? Space-toomb-stones?
Titans: Fleet logistics / shock and awe tool to mash down big stuff fast. Very expensive. Very easy to lose after this DD nerf. The bane of sub-supercap ships. (for 5 sec)
Now:
A MS that could field some hard hitting drones that do awsome DPS (and that are easy to counter if prepared) could be awsome. Motherships would be hard for dreads to fight. Right now, there are no counter to 100 dreads except more dreads.
A MS that have enough EHP to stand up against 5 titans.
The fighterbombers that could go out there and outdamage the dreads means that it would be possible to deploy 10-15 MS against maybe 25-30 dreads, spider up and go to work, praying that noone will open a covert cyno and send in 10 hounds...
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KeratinBoy
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:22:00 -
[1336]
Originally by: Kyra Ivanova
You got to be kidding me CCCP.
How many pages are you going to delete before you realize what a HUGE MISTAKE it is to enrage the people that pays for your salary?
They have done this before you know. They do not learn, they will do this again.
This is you ****ing your game and whatever reputation you rebuilt down the gutter.
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Marlona Sky
D00M.
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:23:00 -
[1337]
It is pretty bad when Nozh is not even allowed to visit Reykjavfk or face criminal charges. Guess they read the blogs too.
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paik
Minmatar
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:23:00 -
[1338]
CCP you wont win this forum war
Surrender now
Give us Abathurs blog
You have till the close of business monday before I start wall of texting 3rd party sites.
________________________________________
LOLNOZHLOL |
Frogman Henry
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:42:00 -
[1339]
Edited by: Frogman Henry on 20/11/2009 21:43:01
Originally by: Kyra Ivanova
post 1235, page 42.
Quoting post 1214 hahahahaha.
There have been hundreds and hundreds of posts deleted now.
Quit Stalin' CCP, fix the fix!
post 1231 |
Pelvis Rodman
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:42:00 -
[1340]
Edited by: Pelvis Rodman on 20/11/2009 21:42:09
CCP ...
u mad?
Post 1232
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Dee Carson
Caldari
Child Head Injury and Laceration Doctors
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:42:00 -
[1341]
Edited by: Dee Carson on 20/11/2009 21:42:24
Originally by: Dee Carson
Page 40.... Again????
Have you considered just locking the thread?
Seriously...
DC
Again... Post 1233
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H Zebra
Zebra Corp
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:42:00 -
[1342]
Whole pages are going was 1230, now i dont know where i am
HATE WHAT YOUR DOING WITH CAPITALS. HATE YOUR CUSTOMER SERVICE MORE
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Telender
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:43:00 -
[1343]
Edited by: Telender on 20/11/2009 21:43:16
Originally by: Frogman Henry
Originally by: Kyra Ivanova
post 1235, page 42.
Quoting post 1214 hahahahaha.
There have been hundreds and hundreds of posts deleted now.
Quit Stalin' CCP, fix the fix!
The problem isn't Dominion, or disorganization, or lack of vision, or lack of excellence....it's posting! Posting is the problem!! (Post 1235)
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paik
Minmatar
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:43:00 -
[1344]
CCP I have logged off eve to fight this forum war you wont win.
Free Abathur
These changes are not good for eve. We tested and all agreed even head eve dev at fanfest supported the changes. Now this.
Close of business monday if a compromise hasnt been reached. I am going to 3rd part sites.
PS Ive been taking screenshots of all the post that have been deleted. You cannot and will not avoid the truth.
________________________________________
LOLNOZHLOL |
Iximos
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:43:00 -
[1345]
jesus christ fire nozh if you like having a successful game
|
Hixson
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:44:00 -
[1346]
Still no CCP response to this thread??
So much for EXCELLENCE. You need to Harden the **** up
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Micky Nozawa
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:44:00 -
[1347]
Edited by: Micky Nozawa on 20/11/2009 21:44:08
still nothing on eve-search, either the access was cut down or Chribba did something for which the usual payment is 30 silver pieces
Post number 1239
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ep1k
Minmatar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:44:00 -
[1348]
Ccp would you like to remembered as the company who listened to their customers and delivered polished patches. Because right now you are going for the company who censors any descent and makes changes on a whim totally without any player input.
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Itzena
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:44:00 -
[1349]
Wonder how long it'll take the mods to figure out that we can post faster than they can delete, and just unmake the entire thread?
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Helios Darksteel
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:45:00 -
[1350]
Deleting posts is non-constructive
Disagreement is constructive
You can have a discussion or you can have censorship, they are mutually exclusive.
[1242]
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Anubis Nefertiti
Obsidian Industries Inc
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:45:00 -
[1351]
CCP Nozh is just doing everything by the seat of his pants and flushing all the hard work that the previous Dev "Selene" made.
These changes are horrible
|
Changes Nogood
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:45:00 -
[1352]
Honestly, never have I heared of a company hating their client base so much.
|
Anubis Nefertiti
Obsidian Industries Inc
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:52:00 -
[1353]
CCP does not care about its customer base. The custombers dont even deserve an awnser, JUST CENSORSHIP.
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Hrin
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:52:00 -
[1354]
Edited by: Hrin on 20/11/2009 21:52:47
Stop hating Nozh, he is a real person with feelings and you guys are hurting them
(1262)
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Pelvis Rodman
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:53:00 -
[1355]
Edited by: Pelvis Rodman on 20/11/2009 21:53:23
Originally by: Orgell Evaan
Edited by: Orgell Evaan on 20/11/2009 21:48:59
Originally by: Pelvis Rodman
Originally by: Helios Darksteel
Deleting posts is non-constructive
Disagreement is constructive
You can have a discussion or you can have censorship, they are mutually exclusive.
[1242]
quoting this
I love CCP shooting themselves in the foot.
Serious question; can you use target painters on feet?
Do you have Siege Shoes on?
[1252]
No, does that matter? can't you Target Paint Everything?
oh wai ...
POST NUMBER 1263
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KeratinBoy
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:53:00 -
[1356]
Edited by: KeratinBoy on 20/11/2009 21:53:24
Wouldn't it be nice to have a weekend without job stress because of poor community interaction and rampant censorship?
Stop making the same mistakes over and over again.
P.S., this kind of thing makes the CSM a blatant joke. Jade Constantine style chairing did not work for the CSM and it does not work for CCP.
Page 43 and post 1264, w00t.
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Honest Smedley
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:54:00 -
[1357]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Bilbo II
Deleting posts is unconstructive
Disagreement is not unconstructive
You can have a discussion or you can have censorship, not both because they are mutually exclusive.
That is, of course, incorrect.
Off topic posts and personal attacks are never constructive and should be deleted, regardless of how much pent up nerd rage you wish to express.
Posts that at least have some relevance are being left in place, which is constructive.
Express your displeasure with some small measure of maturity from now on and quit playing armchair freedom of speech activist.
Clearly not a Goon alt.
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Greg DaimYo
Caldari
Biotronics Inc.
Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:54:00 -
[1358]
Okay, I've logged off and got me a six-pack. It's friday and I have time on my hands.
Let's see if we can keep some mods busy.
@Content: I'd like a reason, why the initial changes were bad? It's shy of a week now that the changes were altered and there was not a single statement that explained why this happened. Just sayin'.
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Station Mistress
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:54:00 -
[1359]
@CCP:
Why exactly are you throwing out the capital changes "we" aka the playerbase worked on and tested for weeks on sisi?
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Nightbird
SiN. Corp
Sons of Tangra
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:54:00 -
[1360]
Edited by: Nightbird on 20/11/2009 21:55:31
Deleting posts is unconstructive
Disagreement is not unconstructive
You can have a discussion or you can have censorship, not both because they are mutually exclusive.
Changes have been play-tested and are player approved... rollback FTL.
Post #1268, page 43
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Itzena
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:54:00 -
[1361]
Originally by: Honest Smedley
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Bilbo II
Deleting posts is unconstructive
Disagreement is not unconstructive
You can have a discussion or you can have censorship, not both because they are mutually exclusive.
That is, of course, incorrect.
Off topic posts and personal attacks are never constructive and should be deleted, regardless of how much pent up nerd rage you wish to express.
Posts that at least have some relevance are being left in place, which is constructive.
Express your displeasure with some small measure of maturity from now on and quit playing armchair freedom of speech activist.
Clearly not a Goon alt.
Nice user-name.
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Trantz
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:54:00 -
[1362]
Edited by: Trantz on 20/11/2009 21:54:32
Deleting posts is unconstructive
Disagreement is not unconstructive
You can have a discussion or you can have censorship, not both because they are mutually exclusive.
1270
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Zy'or Tealon
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:54:00 -
[1363]
Originally by: Grillmeister Grim
And the magazines will have no problem to find that 50%+ of the posts got censored and deleted.
Compared to the post count on eve-search.com it's only about 100 deleted posts so far. No doubt it'll go up before the night's over though.
To make this post on topic: The proposed changes in the blog show a total lack of insight into how Capital ships are actually used in game or even how they operate.
---------------
The new Bug Reporting process rules! Use it and help make EvE even better!
Quote:
Test your software or your users will!
|
Bud Johnson
Broski Enterprises
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:55:00 -
[1364]
Originally by: Jimer Lins
This is really bad. Players have a five-minute timer between when they can say something and the thread is still going bananas despite buzzsaw moderation.
What astonishes me is that I don't think I've seen even ONE person in favor of this move. That's a first in my experience; if you had told me there was a way to get the entire player base united behind one concept I would have said you were insane.
I truly hope CCP is listening/watching and understand just how badly they have damaged their relationship with some of their most passionate customers with these hamfisted moves.
Im in favor of dominion as a whole.
The reason you don't see a bunch of people posting in favor of it is because 99% of players don't care about the e-outrage expressed in this thread.
The ones that did post were told that their opinion is irrelevant so that the butt hurt masses (that expansions inevitably call out of the woodwork) can justify their whinging to themselves.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:55:00 -
[1365]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Bilbo II
Deleting posts is unconstructive
Disagreement is not unconstructive
You can have a discussion or you can have censorship, not both because they are mutually exclusive.
That is, of course, incorrect.
Off topic posts and personal attacks are never constructive and should be deleted, regardless of how much pent up nerd rage you wish to express.
Posts that at least have some relevance are being left in place, which is constructive.
Express your displeasure with some small measure of maturity from now on and quit playing armchair freedom of speech activist.
Of course you are right there.
Gladly enough there is eve-search where most of the deleted posts can be read up. Do so and you will find that a lot of posts are pretty relevant.
Relevant maybe not to this thread, but to the game in general.
Shouldn't that be considered valuable feedback also? |
Pointfive
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:55:00 -
[1366]
Its pretty obvious why they did not reveal most of the patch changes at fanfest. They would have had a riot on their hands.
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Darriele
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:55:00 -
[1367]
Edited by: Darriele on 20/11/2009 21:55:24
Deleting posts is unconstructive
Disagreement is not unconstructive
You can have a discussion or you can have censorship, not both because they are mutually exclusive.
1275
|
Gurientha
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 21:55:00 -
[1368]
Ah, shucks.
It made it passed page 40. I thought for sure they'd delete enough posts to keep it under 39. I lost the bet.
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Toman Torax
Rage For Order
Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:00:00 -
[1369]
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
Abathur proposed changes to supercarriers. We tested them. WE GAVE YOU FEEDBACK. They seemed perfectly fair and balanced. Your response was to THROW AWAY god only knows how many months of planning on your side, and two months of testing and feedback from the players.
Now, even after all of that, we again try to offer you feedback, and ideas and solutions, and your response is to COMPLETELY IGNORE IT - and even worse, let someone who CLEARLY DOES NOT UNDERSTAND how capital ships work to puke all over this thread with nonsensical spreadsheet data.
CCP, seriously... HOW DO YOU EXPECT US TO RESPOND?
Deleting posts left and right that you arbitrarily deem "inappropriate" is NOT helping your cause.
You are causing a SOE NGE catastrophe all over again, and you can't even see it.
Can you PLEASE get someone COMPETENT who UNDERSTANDS the way capital ships actually work to get back on these issues once again. Someone like... ABATHUR maybe?
|
Cedori
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:00:00 -
[1370]
Edited by: Cedori on 20/11/2009 22:00:39
Originally by: Gergragda
Deleting posts is non-constructive
Disagreement is constructive
You can have a discussion or you can have censorship, they are mutually exclusive.
Quoting this, and posting it every time more posts are deleted. And I feel pretty dirty quoting a Goon.
5th Paste, CCP has added a "5 minute posting rule", and this is post 1292 |
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Pyrhus Taavi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:01:00 -
[1371]
Edited by: Pyrhus Taavi on 20/11/2009 22:00:48
Were the original changes bad? We just want to know why you chose not to run with them.
1293
|
Caldreean
Dawnwalkers
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:01:00 -
[1372]
I just wanted to mention to CCP, I'm glad you can spare the manpower to sit people here and read every post and delete with lightning speed, but you can't spare a single person to post "We are reviewing this matter and will have something to say on Monday" or whatever.
Stay classy.
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Dante Edmundo
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:01:00 -
[1373]
Hmmm - Instead of the HTFU we all heard from CCP we get STFU.
And you know what is really ironic? I think it has made it all much worse instead of just let people whine and cry like they always do and have.
There is a reason why censorship has been universally reviled by enlightened civilized people. Because behind censorship lies incompetence.
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Darriele
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:02:00 -
[1374]
Ignoring the problems will NOT make them go away CCCP, they will just become stronger!
Just answer us already, why were Abathur changes discarded?
Why do you even have "testing" and ask for "feedback" if a mid level dev can undo everything at the 11th hour like "sry, nop"?
Why are you deleting perfectly legit posts from your paying userbase with no explanation?
Seriously, How do you expect this to end?
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Commander Tigre
Minmatar
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:03:00 -
[1375]
Edited by: Commander Tigre on 20/11/2009 22:03:47
Originally by: Darriele
Ignoring the problems will NOT make them go away CCCP, they will just become stronger!
Just answer us already, why were Abathur changes discarded?
Why do you even have "testing" and ask for "feedback" if a mid level dev can undo everything at the 11th hour like "sry, nop"?
Why are you deleting perfectly legit posts from your paying userbase with no explanation?
Seriously, How do you expect this to end?
Editing to not empty quote...
/signed
PLEASE GIVE THE MOTHERSHIP AN HP BUFF
"We Choose to listen to the lies we don't want to hear. The truth is, you're already dead." |
CobraStylez
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:03:00 -
[1376]
Originally by: Toman Torax
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
Abathur proposed changes to supercarriers. We tested them. WE GAVE YOU FEEDBACK. They seemed perfectly fair and balanced. Your response was to THROW AWAY god only knows how many months of planning on your side, and two months of testing and feedback from the players.
Now, even after all of that, we again try to offer you feedback, and ideas and solutions, and your response is to COMPLETELY IGNORE IT - and even worse, let someone who CLEARLY DOES NOT UNDERSTAND how capital ships work to puke all over this thread with nonsensical spreadsheet data.
CCP, seriously... HOW DO YOU EXPECT US TO RESPOND?
Deleting posts left and right that you arbitrarily deem "inappropriate" is NOT helping your cause.
You are causing a SOE NGE catastrophe all over again, and you can't even see it.
Can you PLEASE get someone COMPETENT who UNDERSTANDS the way capital ships actually work to get back on these issues once again. Someone like... ABATHUR maybe?
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ " " " ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿̿̿̿̿̿̿'̿'\̵͇̿̿\=((ò̪●))=/̿̿& |
paik
Minmatar
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:03:00 -
[1377]
Edited by: paik on 20/11/2009 22:04:15
Forum mod went to dinner I think.
Free Abathur
1299
________________________________________
LOLNOZHLOL |
Pedro Sangre
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:04:00 -
[1378]
I am very disappointed, CCP. In the past, you have sometimes remembered that changes to one thing can require changes to others as well. In this case you're making balancing changes, but throwing out half of them. This will leave things even worse than you started, as the resulting imbalances will be even more pronounced.
And, as always, you have no concept of PR. You handle things about as gracefully as your average poster here, like a giant self-righteous stubborn nerd.
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Zy'or Tealon
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:04:00 -
[1379]
Originally by: Hrin
Edited by: Hrin on 20/11/2009 21:52:47
Stop hating Nozh, he is a real person with feelings and you guys are hurting them
(1262)
Hey I've tried to help Nozh out back in post 867...
[1301]
---------------
The new Bug Reporting process rules! Use it and help make EvE even better!
Quote:
Test your software or your users will!
|
Nymysys
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:05:00 -
[1380]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
just to make the point absolutely clear, a random jagoff from atlas just did a better job balancing capitals than ccp nozh
these changes, or some simulacra of these changes, are the ones that should be implemented
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Kuar Z'thain
Fraser's Finest
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:05:00 -
[1381]
Edited by: Kuar Z''thain on 20/11/2009 22:05:09
Deleting posts is unconstructive
Disagreement is not unconstructive
You can have a discussion or you can have censorship, not both because they are mutually exclusive.
1303
|
Serj Darek
Minmatar
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:05:00 -
[1382]
Edited by: Serj Darek on 20/11/2009 22:05:11
Why are you effectively destroying all super-capital class ships? I would recommend not bothering with the super-capital changes until it's sorted since six months w/ two broken classes seems moronic.
My suspicion is a middle-manager didn't approve of the changes and decided to fly in and.....
Post 1304
Teadaze for CSM |
Orgell Evaan
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:06:00 -
[1383]
With the horrendous Nag renerf, should I even bother with it, or just forget capitals for the next six months and backfill the other races' subcaps?
|
Jimer Lins
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:06:00 -
[1384]
Another bit of fallout (no pun intended) from this debacle is one that CCP should rightly be wary of. Specifically, they have ensured that actual player participation on Sisi in upcoming game changes is going to be minimal to non-existent from now on. Nobody's going to bother testing changes when they are simply wholesale shredded.
Everyone who does any testing expects changes, but for those who spent any signifcant time testing Dominion changes to caps, I would bet they are (rightly) feeling like they just got kicked in the junk and had a whole lot of their time utterly wasted.
There's a difference between incorporating feedback and making meaningful changes and simply discarding a ton of hard work wholesale.
Killboard-Declarations of War Podcast |
Bilbo II
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company
Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:08:00 -
[1385]
Originally by: Toman Torax
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
Abathur proposed changes to supercarriers. We tested them. WE GAVE YOU FEEDBACK. They seemed perfectly fair and balanced. Your response was to THROW AWAY god only knows how many months of planning on your side, and two months of testing and feedback from the players.
Now, even after all of that, we again try to offer you feedback, and ideas and solutions, and your response is to COMPLETELY IGNORE IT - and even worse, let someone who CLEARLY DOES NOT UNDERSTAND how capital ships work to puke all over this thread with nonsensical spreadsheet data.
CCP, seriously... HOW DO YOU EXPECT US TO RESPOND?
Deleting posts left and right that you arbitrarily deem "inappropriate" is NOT helping your cause.
You are causing a SOE NGE catastrophe all over again, and you can't even see it.
Can you PLEASE get someone COMPETENT who UNDERSTANDS the way capital ships actually work to get back on these issues once again. Someone like... ABATHUR maybe?
/signed
|
Jack Gilligan
THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:09:00 -
[1386]
Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 20/11/2009 22:08:53
I think the mods have target painted this thread.
1308, pg 44
|
paik
Minmatar
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:09:00 -
[1387]
CCP NOZH BAD POSTING FOR LIFE
________________________________________
LOLNOZHLOL |
CEO Rockhound
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:09:00 -
[1388]
Originally by: Trilli Shaw
What is all the fuzz about?? I don't get it!
Dominion :
- free from the shackles of pos-warfare
- free from the shackles of cap-warfare
- free from the shackles of war for space
- free from the shackles of supercaps
- free from Eve, finally
Ain't it great??
Well, I did petition this to CCP Accounting on all accounts. Glad you did to.
|
Pelvis Rodman
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:10:00 -
[1389]
Edited by: Pelvis Rodman on 20/11/2009 22:10:32
Originally by: Bilbo II
Originally by: Toman Torax
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
Abathur proposed changes to supercarriers. We tested them. WE GAVE YOU FEEDBACK. They seemed perfectly fair and balanced. Your response was to THROW AWAY god only knows how many months of planning on your side, and two months of testing and feedback from the players.
Now, even after all of that, we again try to offer you feedback, and ideas and solutions, and your response is to COMPLETELY IGNORE IT - and even worse, let someone who CLEARLY DOES NOT UNDERSTAND how capital ships work to puke all over this thread with nonsensical spreadsheet data.
CCP, seriously... HOW DO YOU EXPECT US TO RESPOND?
Deleting posts left and right that you arbitrarily deem "inappropriate" is NOT helping your cause.
You are causing a SOE NGE catastrophe all over again, and you can't even see it.
Can you PLEASE get someone COMPETENT who UNDERSTANDS the way capital ships actually work to get back on these issues once again. Someone like... ABATHUR maybe?
/signed
/signed again
POST NUMBER 1311
|
Sajeera
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:10:00 -
[1390]
Edited by: Sajeera on 20/11/2009 22:10:28
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 20/11/2009 22:08:53
I think the mods have target painted this thread.
1308, pg 44
Target painters don't work on reinforced threads
[1312]
|
|
|
Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:10:00 -
[1391]
Originally by: Toman Torax
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
Abathur proposed changes to supercarriers. We tested them. WE GAVE YOU FEEDBACK. They seemed perfectly fair and balanced. Your response was to THROW AWAY god only knows how many months of planning on your side, and two months of testing and feedback from the players.
Now, even after all of that, we again try to offer you feedback, and ideas and solutions, and your response is to COMPLETELY IGNORE IT - and even worse, let someone who CLEARLY DOES NOT UNDERSTAND how capital ships work to puke all over this thread with nonsensical spreadsheet data.
CCP, seriously... HOW DO YOU EXPECT US TO RESPOND?
Deleting posts left and right that you arbitrarily deem "inappropriate" is NOT helping your cause.
You are causing a SOE NGE catastrophe all over again, and you can't even see it.
Can you PLEASE get someone COMPETENT who UNDERSTANDS the way capital ships actually work to get back on these issues once again. Someone like... ABATHUR maybe?
I can only agree here.
What are we supposed to do? After testing weeks and months those things on the test server they get discared from a total stranger (well not so strange for those who know that guy ) who just walked in. And from that point everything pretty fast went complete bonkers.
How and WHY should we ever do some testing on test server again and give feedback and do work - yes it IS work! - for you if all we get is the finger and not even TWO replies from the devs after thousands of posts?
What else should we do than demanding answers and expressing our feelings??? |
Nymysys
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:12:00 -
[1392]
CCP is receiving a great deal of attention from various gaming press sites concerning what is going on in this thread. They have apparently not learned from the last time this happened.
|
Flaming Lemming
Caldari
Puppeteer Press
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:14:00 -
[1393]
Originally by: Jimer Lins
Another bit of fallout (no pun intended) from this debacle is one that CCP should rightly be wary of. Specifically, they have ensured that actual player participation on Sisi in upcoming game changes is going to be minimal to non-existent from now on. Nobody's going to bother testing changes when they are simply wholesale shredded.
Everyone who does any testing expects changes, but for those who spent any signifcant time testing Dominion changes to caps, I would bet they are (rightly) feeling like they just got kicked in the junk and had a whole lot of their time utterly wasted.
There's a difference between incorporating feedback and making meaningful changes and simply discarding a ton of hard work wholesale.
This sounds about right.
|
Ryan Powers
Caldari
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:15:00 -
[1394]
Originally by: Toman Torax
Abathur proposed changes to supercarriers. We tested them. WE GAVE YOU FEEDBACK. They seemed perfectly fair and balanced. Your response was to THROW AWAY god only knows how many months of planning on your side, and two months of testing and feedback from the players.
Now, even after all of that, we again try to offer you feedback, and ideas and solutions, and your response is to COMPLETELY IGNORE IT - and even worse, let someone who CLEARLY DOES NOT UNDERSTAND how capital ships work to puke all over this thread with nonsensical spreadsheet data.
CCP, seriously... HOW DO YOU EXPECT US TO RESPOND?
Deleting posts left and right that you arbitrarily deem "inappropriate" is NOT helping your cause.
You are causing a SOE NGE catastrophe all over again, and you can't even see it.
Can you PLEASE get someone COMPETENT who UNDERSTANDS the way capital ships actually work to get back on these issues once again. Someone like... ABATHUR maybe?
Quoted for a compelling argument.
Free Abathur! |
Tommy Blue
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:15:00 -
[1395]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
CCP Nozh, do this now and maybe...maybe we will forgive you.
Ehàprobably not.
|
CobraStylez
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:16:00 -
[1396]
Has there been any response from the devs on this?
٩๏̯͡๏)۶ " " " ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿̿̿̿̿̿̿'̿'\̵͇̿̿\=((ò̪●))=/̿̿& |
Shamisen
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:16:00 -
[1397]
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 20/11/2009 22:08:53
I think the mods have target painted this thread.
1308, pg 44
Time to go siege red!
|
Isonda
Gallente
Okkelen Grave Robbers
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:16:00 -
[1398]
Originally by: Nymysys
CCP is receiving a great deal of attention from various gaming press sites concerning what is going on in this thread. They have apparently not learned from the last time this happened.
post killmail or it did not happen..
|
Darriele
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:17:00 -
[1399]
Edited by: Darriele on 20/11/2009 22:17:10
Originally by: CobraStylez
Has there been any response from the devs on this?
No, but .. FREE ABATHUR
1321 45
|
Thrud Valkyries
Minmatar
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:17:00 -
[1400]
Edited by: Thrud Valkyries on 20/11/2009 22:18:37
Originally by: CobraStylez
Has there been any response from the devs on this?
Nope, just the one single fail post from Nozh about 5 DCUs and 3 TPs.
[1322] [45]
|
|
|
Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:18:00 -
[1401]
I see CCP is doing damage control interviews on MMORPG.com, where they quickly gloss over the mothership changes, completely forgetting to mention that the ships are incredibly expensive, have been basically useless for quite a while, and are going to continue to be useless because CCP put an inept developer in charge of capital ship changes.
|
Trilli Shaw
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:19:00 -
[1402]
Originally by: CobraStylez
Has there been any response from the devs on this?
Oh yes, ONE reply so far with lots of nonsense talk about that you need and not need target painters. That siege mode will magically increase the damge you recieve and that your tanking abilities are increased and decreased at the same time. Funny graphs completly irrelevant to the topic.
Yeah, there was ONE dev reply ...
Just LOL - talking about excellency. |
Strabo44
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:20:00 -
[1403]
Originally by: Toman Torax
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
Abathur proposed changes to supercarriers. We tested them. WE GAVE YOU FEEDBACK. They seemed perfectly fair and balanced. Your response was to THROW AWAY god only knows how many months of planning on your side, and two months of testing and feedback from the players.
Now, even after all of that, we again try to offer you feedback, and ideas and solutions, and your response is to COMPLETELY IGNORE IT - and even worse, let someone who CLEARLY DOES NOT UNDERSTAND how capital ships work to puke all over this thread with nonsensical spreadsheet data.
CCP, seriously... HOW DO YOU EXPECT US TO RESPOND?
Deleting posts left and right that you arbitrarily deem "inappropriate" is NOT helping your cause.
You are causing a SOE NGE catastrophe all over again, and you can't even see it.
Can you PLEASE get someone COMPETENT who UNDERSTANDS the way capital ships actually work to get back on these issues once again. Someone like... ABATHUR maybe?
****ing hell I'm agreeing with a sys-k dude.
|
Hratli Smirks
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:20:00 -
[1404]
Edited by: Hratli Smirks on 20/11/2009 22:20:34
These Dev blog threads haven't been going very well lately.
Your post to clear up that "yeah I totally knew you can't target paint any of that stuff and here's some fighter damage graphs against target painted dreads to prove it" was kind of confusing and did not actually instill any confidence in your understanding of basic mechanics.
1326
|
Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:21:00 -
[1405]
Originally by: Zy'or Tealon
Originally by: Hrin
Edited by: Hrin on 20/11/2009 21:52:47
Stop hating Nozh, he is a real person with feelings and you guys are hurting them
(1262)
Hey I've tried to help Nozh out back in post 867...
[1301]
You mean post 267?
|
Kris Longknife
Insidious Existence
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:22:00 -
[1406]
Originally by: Nymysys
CCP is receiving a great deal of attention from various gaming press sites concerning what is going on in this thread. They have apparently not learned from the last time this happened.
Can we get a link, I'd very much like to read those stories.
|
KeratinBoy
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:22:00 -
[1407]
Edited by: KeratinBoy on 20/11/2009 22:22:23
Still waiting on some competent person to respond competently to this thread from CCP.
Hint: Trying to wriggle out of this idiocy in your usual manner is not the way to go.
Post 1329
|
Nymysys
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:22:00 -
[1408]
Originally by: Isonda
post killmail or it did not happen..
Sorry, looks like it was deleted
|
McTecman
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:24:00 -
[1409]
I honestly don't understand how a company, responsible for a product like EVE, can afford to make such sudden late-announced changes literally two weeks from 'supposedly' shipping. Even worse, changes that go against a lengthy developer-player process that has taken all of us (both players and developers) a very long time to plan, debate, implement, test, change, followed by a feedback loop. It's like not only are you throwing away our input on ideas that, generally, we welcomed quite a bit, but also destroying your own work, and by the method you're doing this, also your credibility.
I don't have anything against Nozh personally, but it just seems like the dude isn't really knowledgeable enough on the aspects of the game he's supposedly in charge in (or enough in charge in to write developer blogs about) to be either a one-man think tank, or a front for some really, really bad ideas from a circle of developers that would probably do better in spread-sheeting random data or painting pixels than arguing about the aspects and mechanics of ships that consume a lot of time, money and effort to get into. Or take an existing idea, break it, then attempt to fix only the left side while letting the right side remain shattered. Especially since the original ideas were either from, or at least gathered and presented by, a persona that 0.0 players were familiar with and thought "Hey, I flew with this guy / shot at this guy, I know he played a part of the game I'm playing, I'm SURE that even if I disagree with him he at least knows what the hell he's doing and has actually played his part." And it's not just the ideas themselves, but this sudden ping-ponging between yes and no, green and red, then after all the initial drama going all apologetic and rolling back certain parts of a design that's too dependent on too many variables to remain stable without really thinking that it makes the game even worse than pre-Dominion for some people that have invested quite a bit of time and effort. And it's not some sort of entitlement problem, or 'the old guard' issue - it's the possibility of losing an asset that's quite a bit expensive in two or three shots.
This is beyond "lol 0.0 whining about mommies~", it's about CCP's attitude in this manner as well. And I'm not talking just about the past few days, take a look at the entire problem from a more distant perspective: After all the work done in order to show the company in a positive light (CMS, IA), all the olive branches and trying to work together in a meaningful manner via the CMS and the fanfest roundtables... Only to be broken by one lousy badly-written devblog (from a developer that doesn't seem to grasp some basics in the mechanics that he's supposed to fix, sorry Nozh & krew) that is basically taking a huge... on the playerbase, not just capital or supercapital pilots. Imagine if this was either your favourite ship or ship class. Or imagine if it was a ship/ship class your ship/ship class counters. Or, hell, imagine if Titans were suddenly hi-sec ships that could vapourize all the assets inside a certain player's hangar(s) in one shot.
The mothership issue is why we're 'whining'. The attitude towards us all however is why we've being very vocal about it.
Excellence indeed.
And jesus christ you have goons agreeing with The Star Fraction.
furthermore; :words: oh god im posting on eve-o what have i done
|
Johnette Napolitano
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:25:00 -
[1410]
If you guys want to get CCP's attention in a way they simply can't ignore, as many 0.0 corps/alliances as possible should declare a day (oh, say, Sunday?) as D-Day for Eve. Go to every crowded mission hub, every trade hub, every mining hub, and suicide every damn ship you find. And keep doing it. Ya'll have high sec alts to place ships for you, that isn't an issue. Insurance is a joke - cost is barely an issue. 10,000 crying carebears (of which I'm one) will get you results a lot faster than this thread ever will.
|
|
|
Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:25:00 -
[1411]
Originally by: Strabo44
Originally by: Toman Torax
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
Abathur proposed changes to supercarriers. We tested them. WE GAVE YOU FEEDBACK. They seemed perfectly fair and balanced. Your response was to THROW AWAY god only knows how many months of planning on your side, and two months of testing and feedback from the players.
Now, even after all of that, we again try to offer you feedback, and ideas and solutions, and your response is to COMPLETELY IGNORE IT - and even worse, let someone who CLEARLY DOES NOT UNDERSTAND how capital ships work to puke all over this thread with nonsensical spreadsheet data.
CCP, seriously... HOW DO YOU EXPECT US TO RESPOND?
Deleting posts left and right that you arbitrarily deem "inappropriate" is NOT helping your cause.
You are causing a SOE NGE catastrophe all over again, and you can't even see it.
Can you PLEASE get someone COMPETENT who UNDERSTANDS the way capital ships actually work to get back on these issues once again. Someone like... ABATHUR maybe?
****ing hell I'm agreeing with a sys-k dude.
I too am in agreement
Please CCP for the love of $deity fix this ****, answer our questions, we're not asking for a lot here, and no we probably won't just go away.
|
Hope Xar
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:26:00 -
[1412]
I would like to see some real answers to those most urgent questions.
For example: What was wrong with Abathur's changes that they needed to be completely thrown away from one day to the next?
Why the heck is target painting even MENTIONED? It is totally irrelevant in cap warfare!
What are these strange changes on siege missiles? Is there any coherent design on them?? |
Navick
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:32:00 -
[1413]
Edited by: Navick on 20/11/2009 22:32:59
"Sir, sir! The players are really upset about the latest dev blog... there's a threadnaught forming on the forums about it!"
"Ah, that's nothing to worry about. Just start deleting all the negative posts you can, as fast as you can."
"But that... wait, what?"
"Relaaax, if we delete the posts then it's like it never happened! *Click click* See? No post, no problem "
post # 1323, page 45
Seriously, CCP. Knock it off with the "damage control" and just answer your customers, already. Deleting entire pages of a thread is only making it worse.
|
Orgell Evaan
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:33:00 -
[1414]
Originally by: McTecman
I honestly don't understand how a company, responsible for a product like EVE, can afford to make such sudden late-announced changes literally two weeks from 'supposedly' shipping. Even worse, changes that go against a lengthy developer-player process that has taken all of us (both players and developers) a very long time to plan, debate, implement, test, change, followed by a feedback loop. It's like not only are you throwing away our input on ideas that, generally, we welcomed quite a bit, but also destroying your own work, and by the method you're doing this, also your credibility.
I don't have anything against Nozh personally, but it just seems like the dude isn't really knowledgeable enough on the aspects of the game he's supposedly in charge in (or enough in charge in to write developer blogs about) to be either a one-man think tank, or a front for some really, really bad ideas from a circle of developers that would probably do better in spread-sheeting random data or painting pixels than arguing about the aspects and mechanics of ships that consume a lot of time, money and effort to get into. Or take an existing idea, break it, then attempt to fix only the left side while letting the right side remain shattered. Especially since the original ideas were either from, or at least gathered and presented by, a persona that 0.0 players were familiar with and thought "Hey, I flew with this guy / shot at this guy, I know he played a part of the game I'm playing, I'm SURE that even if I disagree with him he at least knows what the hell he's doing and has actually played his part." And it's not just the ideas themselves, but this sudden ping-ponging between yes and no, green and red, then after all the initial drama going all apologetic and rolling back certain parts of a design that's too dependent on too many variables to remain stable without really thinking that it makes the game even worse than pre-Dominion for some people that have invested quite a bit of time and effort. And it's not some sort of entitlement problem, or 'the old guard' issue - it's the possibility of losing an asset that's quite a bit expensive in two or three shots.
This is beyond "lol 0.0 whining about mommies~", it's about CCP's attitude in this manner as well. And I'm not talking just about the past few days, take a look at the entire problem from a more distant perspective: After all the work done in order to show the company in a positive light (CMS, IA), all the olive branches and trying to work together in a meaningful manner via the CMS and the fanfest roundtables... Only to be broken by one lousy badly-written devblog (from a developer that doesn't seem to grasp some basics in the mechanics that he's supposed to fix, sorry Nozh & krew) that is basically taking a huge... on the playerbase, not just capital or supercapital pilots. Imagine if this was either your favourite ship or ship class. Or imagine if it was a ship/ship class your ship/ship class counters. Or, hell, imagine if Titans were suddenly hi-sec ships that could vapourize all the assets inside a certain player's hangar(s) in one shot.
The mothership issue is why we're 'whining'. The attitude towards us all however is why we've being very vocal about it.
Excellence indeed.
And jesus christ you have goons agreeing with The Star Fraction.
furthermore; :words: oh god im posting on eve-o what have i done
CCP, certainly you can see the irony when Goons make - and continue to make - intelligent observations regarding the complete PR meltdown currently underway? Why can't we get an answer - preferably one that's actually possible?
|
mkmin
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:33:00 -
[1415]
Why isn't this whole thread locked yet? The very existence of this threadnaught indicates that no one in CCP who matters is reading it anyway. To not ask player advice about a change is one thing.
1) It's a business's responsibility to attempt to improve a product.
2) It's consumer responsibility to complain when a product or service doesn't meet their expectations.
3) It's a business's responsibility to respond to customer complaints and criticisms.
4) It's a consumer's responsibility to stop using a product or service when it stops meeting expectations.
CCP, we're waiting for you on step 3. I expect when step 4 happens, it'll happen fast.
|
Retsil Evad
Caldari
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.20 22:33:00 -
[1416]
Originally by: Toman Torax
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
Abathur proposed changes to supercarriers. We tested them. WE GAVE YOU FEEDBACK. They seemed perfectly fair and balanced. Your response was to THROW AWAY god only knows how many months of planning on your side, and two months of testing and feedback from the players.
Now, even after all of that, we again try to offer you feedback, and ideas and solutions, and your response is to COMPLETELY IGNORE IT - and even worse, let someone who CLEARLY DOES NOT UNDERSTAND how capital ships work to puke all over this thread with nonsensical spreadsheet data.
CCP, seriously... HOW DO YOU EXPECT US TO RESPOND?
Deleting posts left and right that you arbitrarily deem "inappropriate" is NOT helping your cause.
You are causing a SOE NGE catastrophe all over again, and you can't even see it.
Can you PLEASE get someone COMPETENT who UNDERSTANDS the way capital ships actually work to get back on these issues once again. Someone like... ABATHUR maybe?
/Signed
CCP, you need to listen to your player base. The fact this thread has had a responce this prolific should make it very loud and clear that a considerable number of people are very annoyed about the changes and the way they were dropped from a great height.
============== Office use ONLY ==============
BRING BACK EVE TV!!!!!!! |
John Zorg
Caldari
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:34:00 -
[1417]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Let's see...
"Target Painters Do NOT Work on Titans, Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps"
On Titans and Supercapitals that doesn't matter as their Signature Radius is already very large to begin with. Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.
The Citadel Torpedoes don't do their full potential damage to Dreadnoughts, however they were balanced to do similar amounts of damage towards Dreadnoughts as XL Turrets with this in mind. Citadel Torpedoes have the ability to do more damage to larger targets.
To illustrate how it would have worked with Fighter Bombers, you can take a look at these graphs:
"Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances."
What I meant by this is that there aren't many situations where you get to fully utilize the short range weapons (especially the "6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I" and "Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I"), due to their poor optimal range and the fact that you can't dictate range while in siege mode. With high damage ammo on Tranquility, your damage output starts dropping rapidly at ~5km, in which case you might as well use the long range weapons.
"Docking games"
We can all agree that docking games are, well, lame. But this problem is across all ship classes, regardless of their hit-point count. Thus, this problem has to be solved by some other means than to limit docking for the capital fatties. We'd like to work on other solutions for this problem.
"Titans"
As stated in the blog, Titans primary role should not be direct damage. We still feel like they need more defined roles, this will be worked on along with proper Mothership changes.
Hey CCP Nozh, could you please add the cost/value of Mothership as it stands now to the dread? Why can the Motherships not be the pawn all ships in EVE ship? You seem to constantly want to compare them to dreads? They are 9 times the price so make them 9 times better. The same applies to Titans. To be honest, the AOE DD is much preffered vs. this one hit wonder.
If you truly want to make these ships important, give them a reason to be risked. I will gladly risk taking my Mothership into a fight if I can see that I am going to help change the outcome of the fight. Also, drop the Drone Control Unit, they are useless modules anyways.
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Christos Hendez
Warhamsters
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:34:00 -
[1418]
I SEE WHAT CCP IS TRYING TO DO!!! They are trying to end the war!!!
if you look through this thread, its got NC, Goons, AAA, IT etc all agreeing with each other.
Now, if CCP dont think AAA & Goons agreeing is something special, then you must see flahing lights when you see ex-BoB quoting Mittens saying +1?
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Lady Karma
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:34:00 -
[1419]
Originally by: Fylin Manslayer
Here is the link mentioned:
mmorpg.com Interview
Plus the interview from Mr Noah
MMORPG.com: What are three parts to Dominion you are most proud of?
Noah Ward: "Visually the planets are just amazing.
On top of the basic changes in the capture mechanics we've added new map views
The third part is a quality of life thing. We've iterated on two of our oldest features in this release. Namely the eve-mail system and the in-game Web browser"
It's ok guys, the planets will be pretty, patch saved and you can use email.
I was ready to cancel, but knowing there will be pretty planets to ponder about while I sit in my Aeon at a moon, I am more than satisfied.
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Stevens
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:35:00 -
[1420]
Edited by: Stevens on 20/11/2009 22:35:01
Quote:
Are you sure you want to do this?
Your account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 1/2/2010 9:36:22 AM
Why are you cancelling?
This will help us to improve our service.
Customer Service
If you want to elaborate further on your reason for canceling EVE, we would appreciate it very much. (optional)
Repeated and total failure to provide any type of customer service regarding Dominion.
E: 1350
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Greg DaimYo
Caldari
Biotronics Inc.
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:35:00 -
[1421]
Originally by: McTecman
Edited by: McTecman on 20/11/2009 22:29:05
I honestly don't understand how a company, responsible for a product like EVE, can afford to make such sudden late-announced changes literally two weeks from 'supposedly' shipping. Even worse, changes that go against a lengthy developer-player process that has taken all of us (both players and developers) a very long time to plan, debate, implement, test, change, followed by a feedback loop. It's like not only are you throwing away our input on ideas that, generally, we welcomed quite a bit, but also destroying your own work, and by the method you're doing this, also your credibility.
I don't have anything against Nozh personally, but it just seems like the dude isn't really knowledgeable enough on the aspects of the game he's supposedly in charge in (or enough in charge in to write developer blogs about) to be either a one-man think tank, or a front for some really, really bad ideas from a circle of developers that would probably do better in spread-sheeting random data or painting pixels than arguing about the aspects and mechanics of ships that consume a lot of time, money and effort to get into. Or take an existing idea, break it, then attempt to fix only the left side while letting the right side remain shattered. Especially since the original ideas were either from, or at least gathered and presented by, a persona that 0.0 players were familiar with and thought "Hey, I flew with this guy / shot at this guy, I know he played a part of the game I'm playing, I'm SURE that even if I disagree with him he at least knows what the hell he's doing and has actually played his part." And it's not just the ideas themselves, but this sudden ping-ponging between yes and no, green and red, then after all the initial drama going all apologetic and rolling back certain parts of a design that's too dependent on too many variables to remain stable without really thinking that it makes the game even worse than pre-Dominion for some people that have invested quite a bit of time and effort. And it's not some sort of entitlement problem, or 'the old guard' issue - it's the possibility of losing an asset that's quite a bit expensive in two or three shots.
This is beyond "lol 0.0 whining about mommies~", it's about CCP's attitude in this manner as well. And I'm not talking just about the past few days, take a look at the entire problem from a more distant perspective: After all the work done in order to show the company in a positive light (CMS, IA), all the olive branches and trying to work together in a meaningful manner via the CMS and the fanfest roundtables... Only to be broken by one lousy badly-written devblog (from a developer that doesn't seem to grasp some basics in the mechanics that he's supposed to fix, sorry Nozh & krew) that is basically taking a huge... on the playerbase, not just capital or supercapital pilots. Imagine if this was either your favourite ship or ship class. Or imagine if it was a ship/ship class your ship/ship class counters. Or, hell, imagine if Titans were suddenly hi-sec ships that could vapourize all the assets inside a certain player's hangar(s) in one shot.
The mothership issue is why we're 'whining'. The attitude towards us all however is why we've being very vocal about it.
Excellence indeed.
And jesus christ you have goons agreeing with The Star Fraction.
furthermore; :words: oh god im posting on eve-o what have i done
edit: Don't release the expansion in such a state. Delay it for a month or two if you have to.
This is a very good post and I'd like to subscribe to the newsletter of McTec.
I want to add that the fact that irks me the most is there is absolutely no fracking explanation why they thougt this would be necessary. None. Zero. As in 0.
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H Zebra
Zebra Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:35:00 -
[1422]
Quote:
Noah Ward: We're going to follow the yellow brick road and we're going to find the unique role these ships fill which will hopefully make the largest number of people happy.
sounds like an idiot to me
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/3751/EVE-Online-Dominion-Interview.html
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Commander Tigre
Minmatar
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:36:00 -
[1423]
Originally by: Christos Hendez
I SEE WHAT CCP IS TRYING TO DO!!! They are trying to end the war!!!
if you look through this thread, its got NC, Goons, AAA, IT etc all agreeing with each other.
Now, if CCP dont think AAA & Goons agreeing is something special, then you must see flahing lights when you see ex-BoB quoting Mittens saying +1?
I wonder how russian forums are responding to this...
"We Choose to listen to the lies we don't want to hear. The truth is, you're already dead." |
H Zebra
Zebra Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:49:00 -
[1424]
how about you leave all capitals as they are on tq now and if you must, install that bad sov system.
that would be better than screwing over every dread and leaving moms to gather dust in the pos
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Darius JOHNSON
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:49:00 -
[1425]
Originally by: Kel Arkir
Subscription Status: Cancelled
Expires: 12/6/2009 2:27:50 PM
Thanks but no thanks, as one of the few guys with the MS on their main, I dont think I am willing to handle POS hugging.
Is it a nyx because I'll take it
Originally by: Iroku Mata
Darius is time to STFU and make your GSM place free for someone who got the humildity to have the job you claim and failled!
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Jimer Lins
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:49:00 -
[1426]
Since I was the one who pointed out how this will affect Sisi, I think I'll respond to Hammerhead's statement.
Nobody (well, nobody reasonable) would expect that something that goes to Sisi will make it to Tranquility. There's a lot of good reasons why things might change, even significantly. The other (reasonable) expectation is that changes will be more minor over time as you move toward feature completion.
The difference here is that there was one set of changes, tested and vetted by a large portion of the community who would be affected, followed by a massive revamp with zero warning and little justification, followed yet again with a total recall- with even less warning.
It's not so much that people don't expect things to change. It's that they (reasonably) don't expect it to just plain go away. The expectation is that by the time it gets to Sisi, maybe it should at least be a direction that CCP has committed to, that they have agreed is the proper vision.
Killboard-Declarations of War Podcast |
Kushmir
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:50:00 -
[1427]
I unsubscribed and am now playing wow as we speak. Thanks CCP
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Isil Rahsen
Gallente
Ferrum Superum
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:50:00 -
[1428]
Edited by: Isil Rahsen on 20/11/2009 22:51:14
OK then CCP Hammerhead, I would like your *teams* decision making process on returning the Naglfar to a useless split weaponed piece of crap after only one patch cycle of being fixed? Why could the bonuses have not been adjusted but LEFT ON THE GUNS? I'm really trying to understand the rationale here when even CCP have admitted split weapons systems are fail hence the change to the Nag to double gun bonuses in the first place.
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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:51:00 -
[1429]
Originally by: H Zebra
how about you leave all capitals as they are on tq now and if you must, install that bad sov system.
that would be better than screwing over every dread and leaving moms to gather dust in the pos
Half the player base? 98% of the player base doesn't give 2 ****s about mom changes.
And of the 2% that do, only the very vocal half of 1 percent were getting ****ed.
My sig don't fracking work. |
Navick
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:51:00 -
[1430]
"Sir, sir! The players are really upset about the latest dev blog... there's a threadnaught forming on the forums about it!"
"Ah, that's nothing to worry about. Just start deleting all the negative posts you can, as fast as you can."
"But that... wait, what?"
"Relaaax, if we delete the posts then it's like it never happened! *Click click* See? No post, no problem "
Originally post #1343, pg 45
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Commander Tigre
Minmatar
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:51:00 -
[1431]
Please explain why you were unhappy with the direction of the mothership and what your plan is for it in the mean time. Leaving the mothership in its current state is not an appropriate action with the changes to titans. THAT is what we want to know.
Also turning off the ability to quote other posts is petty and will make this worse for you in the end.
"We Choose to listen to the lies we don't want to hear. The truth is, you're already dead." |
Sarah Meow
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:51:00 -
[1432]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Hi, everyone
They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0.
So what about Titans instapopping even Motherships?
If you are so much concerned about balancing like you say, why did you come up with the mothership boost in the first place, before really thinking about the results? Now you made hundreds of people angry.
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teji
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:51:00 -
[1433]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
He is just doing his job trying to improve the game and explain the reasoning for why changes were made.
There was no explanation as to why changes were made. References to target painters and dreads is not a reason, it's a troll.
Quote:
We werenÆt entirely happy with the direction and balancing of MOMs before development of Dominion began. Even during the SISI tests they still werenÆt falling into place for us. They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0.
That's news to most people here. Many thought the changes were quite fun. Referring to DCUs and supercarriers also not a reason for changes, it's also a troll.
Quote:
You all made your voices clear with important feedback, we listened and reverted things back to like they are on TQ while we take more time to reassess.
Ah but you aren't. The Nag looks to be getting re-nerfed to uselessness. The titans will now destroy motherships in 2 hits without the hitpoint buff. Things are changing.
Quote:
Only what lands on TQ on patch day is guaranteed.
The truest statement in your whole post.
Quote:
Please remember that we are here to make a game that you all love to play. None of us comes to work thinking of ways to enrage the playerbase.
State reasons and back up those reasons with facts. Anything else will generally enrage your playerbase.
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Moon Kitten
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:51:00 -
[1434]
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Dynaverse Corporation
Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:52:00 -
[1435]
Originally by: Kushmir
I unsubscribed and am now playing wow as we speak. Thanks CCP
Welp, at least something good came out of this.
=====
If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Jack Winters
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:52:00 -
[1436]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
bull**** not answering the questions
This reminds me of when CCP weren't making enough $ and decided that despite in being in game for 4 years, and even stating so in their player guide, that you could ghost train with accounts unsubbed, that it was most definitely a "bug" and that you had to pay for your accounts in order to train them. They imployed the same tactics of not answering questions, "accidentally" making it so the thread didnt show up on eveo unless you knew the direct link, and deleting entire pages of player complaints with no explanation whatsoever.
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Pointfive
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:53:00 -
[1437]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Hi, everyone
We have been carefully watching this thread and I want to set the record straight on a few misconceptions.
First, IÆd like to say that a single developer cannot come in and unilaterally change everything with no oversight. People are spewing a lot of hate at CCP Nozh but instead itÆs a case of shooting the messenger. He is just doing his job trying to improve the game and explain the reasoning for why changes were made. We work as a team and agree on the direction things are taking. We want the game to be balanced and fun for everyone to play. We also think about the future of the game and how it will be in years to come after our changes weighing the medium- and long-term repercussions.
We werenÆt entirely happy with the direction and balancing of MOMs before development of Dominion began. Even during the SISI tests they still werenÆt falling into place for us. They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0. So we tried to tune them again to a point we felt was balanced, but then the role of the ships wasnÆt clear once we started to lower the damage. Instead, they started to blur with dreads and carriers.
You all made your voices clear with important feedback, we listened and reverted things back to like they are on TQ while we take more time to reassess. We could have tried to put out ôsomethingö just because we have been talking about it, but then we would be in a situation where players are getting into ships that might very well change again in a coming patch. Given the amount of work to get one of these we just didnÆt feel that was the right thing to do.
The other misconception I want to address is about our public test server. SISI is there so we can have as many people as possible looking for bugs. We think it best to put things out in the public as soon as possible regardless of whether or not itÆs final so we get more eyes on it. This just makes sense to us from a QA standpoint because EVE is an extremely complex piece of software. SISI isnÆt really meant to be a place to try new fittings, do FFA battles or preview upcoming features, although we know people use it for that and we really donÆt mind because more load on our test server helps us find bugs. ItÆs also not a guarantee as to what will be in the next expansion. There have been plenty of times when we dropped a feature that was partially complete on SISI. Arenas and storefronts are two recent examples. ItÆs highly probable that we like pulling features from a release even less than you do but sometimes it cannot be helped. So while supercarriers were on the test server and had gone through plenty of testing it still wasnÆt guaranteed to end up on TQ in that exact state. Only what lands on TQ on patch day is guaranteed.
Please remember that we are here to make a game that you all love to play. None of us comes to work thinking of ways to enrage the playerbase. As the Lead Game Designer, I take my responsibility seriously and that includes taking responsibility for any decisions made by our team. To me, EVE is much more than a job, itÆs something IÆm passionate about constantly improving. I promise you I want EVE to thrive just as much as you do.
Thanks for listening
CCP Hammerhead
Lead Game Designer
What bout dread weapon changes? Citadel damage and target painting? Naglfar nerf? cosmic anomalise upgrades being borked. Its easy to say you want to wait and make stuff balanced. But you already throwing up tons of unbalanced stuff. So what about those things? Delay this patch if thats your true feeling.
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paik
Minmatar
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:54:00 -
[1438]
Originally by: Moon Kitten
QTBID
Quoting this because im down
________________________________________
LOLNOZHLOL |
Caladain Barton
Navy of Xoc
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:54:00 -
[1439]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Damage Control
Please forgive my next words, as i want to put this as bluntly as possible without room for any error.
If you're Passionate about this game, why are you letting someone who clearly has no idea how cap battles work post? Or, better yet, if he really is just the mouth piece, why does the dev team have no idea how cap battles work? Why are you putting the Nag back to being a worthless dread? Why is there zero love, and big nerf bat to the caldari dread? (I'm a rev pilot, and don't fly caldari at all, and even i know the math for cruise and torp damage)
Does the Dev team play eve online in 0.0? Does the Dev team have alts in major (top 15) space-holding alliances? Please tell me you all actually play this game, because honestly putting forward "Fit a full rack of highslot DCU's and 3 TP's to kill a sieged dread" only makes us look at the dev team as a whole and wonder about you guys.
It seems like there is a huge disconnect between CCP Dev/Management and the players. CSM was supposed to help this, but how can they if they are ignored whenever it's convenient. This makes the playerbase ignore CSM, as they are ineffectual, and repeats the cycle.
HTFU, Man up, and answer some questions instead of turning your mod team loose with the delete and banhammer. BTW, the amount of posts being deleted is staggering..this only makes the playerbase more angry. It makes it seem like you are deleting anything that you disagree with. This is not a conversation (which it seems like CCP doesn't actually want to have).
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H Zebra
Zebra Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:54:00 -
[1440]
Originally by: Karlemgne
Originally by: H Zebra
how about you leave all capitals as they are on tq now and if you must, install that bad sov system.
that would be better than screwing over every dread and leaving moms to gather dust in the pos
Half the player base? 98% of the player base doesn't give 2 ****s about mom changes.
And of the 2% that do, only the very vocal half of 1 percent were getting ****ed.
did you read what i posted? half of what? dreads?
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Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:55:00 -
[1441]
CCP's answer to the issue? Leave an extremely expensive class of ship completely useless for another six months. Bravo.
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Greg DaimYo
Caldari
Biotronics Inc.
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:55:00 -
[1442]
Finally someone with a brain answered.
Okay, I understand your reasoning. You had the feeling that SC's were overpowered. Maybe you are right, because my first reaction after I read the initial Devblog was to go and get one.
On the other hand I see a problem that was voiced a couple of times in this thread: The other Capital- and Supercapitalchanges along with the sovereignity-changes were made (at least it is my perception) with the use of Supercarriers in mind.
Changes can never be looked at in a singular way but you have to keep the whole puzzle in view. Let's face it: Caps are the dominant feature in 0.0-Warfare and have been in this role for the past three years. The current changes to dreads and titans make them a lot more vulnerable to smaller ships witout the proper support-fleet. And since it is a bit easier now to wipe the sovholding structures (with the exception of outposts maybe) without the massive dps dreadnoughts provide, it has become pretty much pointless to field caps in the first place (Exception: Carriers).
So, to give a tl;dr: Current situation makes dreadnoughts worthless and very vulnerable to BS-Pax, too.
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Strabo44
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:56:00 -
[1443]
Originally by: Navick
"Sir, sir! The players are really upset about the latest dev blog... there's a threadnaught forming on the forums about it!"
"Ah, that's nothing to worry about. Just start deleting all the negative posts you can, as fast as you can."
"But that... wait, what?"
"Relaaax, if we delete the posts then it's like it never happened! *Click click* See? No post, no problem "
Originally post #1343, pg 45
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Itzena
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:56:00 -
[1444]
So, essentially CCPs stance is "We have no clue what to do with motherships so we're just going to ignore them for another year?"
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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:56:00 -
[1445]
Edited by: Karlemgne on 20/11/2009 22:58:21
Edited by: Karlemgne on 20/11/2009 22:57:45
Originally by: H Zebra
Originally by: Karlemgne
Originally by: H Zebra
how about you leave all capitals as they are on tq now and if you must, install that bad sov system.
that would be better than screwing over every dread and leaving moms to gather dust in the pos
Half the player base? 98% of the player base doesn't give 2 ****s about mom changes.
And of the 2% that do, only the very vocal half of 1 percent were getting ****ed.
did you read what i posted? half of what? dreads?
edit
My bad, quoted the wrong person.
Okay, add dreads. I fly a Moros. I represent maybe the 10% of the player base that flies dreads.
And I'm not emo ragging at CCP threatening to quit the game.
So how you arrived at 50% of the player base being angry, I still don't understand.
My sig don't fracking work. |
Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:57:00 -
[1446]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
First, I’d like to say that a single developer cannot come in and unilaterally change everything with no oversight ... We work as a team and agree on the direction things are taking.
Yay for Hammerhead!
Thanks for the reply. Late maybe but not too late.
However, if these capital changes are the result of teamwork, how does it come that no one noticed that strange role of target painters is going to play for those new balanced capital weapons? Target painting sieged dreads, seriously teamwork?
And how can I understand that titans have no clear role and are still changes, yet moms don't get changed because they have no clear role?
And what about instapopping moms now by 2-3 titans? That cannot be right either, even not for a temporary solution!
So, the supercarriers didn't make it in because they were overpowered? Well ... communicating this to the players was a pretty big failure I hope you will implement Abathurs original concept and tone down the effectiveness of remote reps on moms, then they should be really fine. |
Ghuarran
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:58:00 -
[1447]
Quote:
First, I’d like to say that a single developer cannot come in and unilaterally change everything with no oversight. People are spewing a lot of hate at CCP Nozh but instead it’s a case of shooting the messenger. He is just doing his job trying to improve the game and explain the reasoning for why changes were made. We work as a team and agree on the direction things are taking. We want the game to be balanced and fun for everyone to play. We also think about the future of the game and how it will be in years to come after our changes weighing the medium- and long-term repercussions.
I respect your position, I really do. But it's kind of disturbing that such a director could publish changes as sweeping as this, referencing mechanics that simply do not work in game, and have the team not notice or care. Surely a team of developers would notice that you cannot target paint supercaps, or seiged dreadnaughts. Shouldn't that thing have been caught?
-----------------------------------------------
Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened.
--Sir Winston Churchill |
Caladain Barton
Navy of Xoc
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:59:00 -
[1448]
Edited by: Caladain Barton on 20/11/2009 22:59:54
Duplicate post, sorry
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Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:00:00 -
[1449]
Edited by: Kraken Kill on 20/11/2009 23:01:12
Motherships DO NOT instapop Carriers. 2 Dreads = the Same DPS as the Motherships Bombers. 2 Dreads Do not Instapop Carriers.
GAH Carrier blobs are able to Remote Rep together. all this is totally nonsense. GAH GAH GAH You wanted Motherships to be Capital Killers then you dont? Whats going on? You wanted Titans to be on the Battlefields for extended periods of time then you dont?
What about what the playerbase wants? The playerbase wants the original plans for the Titan and Supercarriers and NO ONE wants the nerfs to the nag and Phoenix torps.
Explain how its logical now to release Titans with their boosts and allow Supercarriers to go unboosted in the same patch? |
Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:01:00 -
[1450]
Originally by: Ghuarran
Quote:
First, IÆd like to say that a single developer cannot come in and unilaterally change everything with no oversight. People are spewing a lot of hate at CCP Nozh but instead itÆs a case of shooting the messenger. He is just doing his job trying to improve the game and explain the reasoning for why changes were made. We work as a team and agree on the direction things are taking. We want the game to be balanced and fun for everyone to play. We also think about the future of the game and how it will be in years to come after our changes weighing the medium- and long-term repercussions.
I respect your position, I really do. But it's kind of disturbing that such a director could publish changes as sweeping as this, referencing mechanics that simply do not work in game, and have the team not notice or care. Surely a team of developers would notice that you cannot target paint supercaps, or seiged dreadnaughts. Shouldn't that thing have been caught?
If there is one thing I've learned about CCP, it's that they have very little regard for how the game actually works. Instead, they have a fantasy in their head about how they think it should work, and they project that fantasy on to the player base that actually plays the game. In their mind, you should be using target painters, and they are going to balance with that in mind.
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Strabo44
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:01:00 -
[1451]
Originally by: Caladain Barton
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Damage Control
Please forgive my next words, as i want to put this as bluntly as possible without room for any error.
If you're Passionate about this game, why are you letting someone who clearly has no idea how cap battles work post? Or, better yet, if he really is just the mouth piece, why does the dev team have no idea how cap battles work? Why are you putting the Nag back to being a worthless dread? Why is there zero love, and big nerf bat to the caldari dread? (I'm a rev pilot, and don't fly caldari at all, and even i know the math for cruise and torp damage)
Does the Dev team play eve online in 0.0? Does the Dev team have alts in major (top 15) space-holding alliances? Please tell me you all actually play this game, because honestly putting forward "Fit a full rack of highslot DCU's and 3 TP's to kill a sieged dread" only makes us look at the dev team as a whole and wonder about you guys.
It seems like there is a huge disconnect between CCP Dev/Management and the players. CSM was supposed to help this, but how can they if they are ignored whenever it's convenient. This makes the playerbase ignore CSM, as they are ineffectual, and repeats the cycle.
HTFU, Man up, and answer some questions instead of turning your mod team loose with the delete and banhammer. BTW, the amount of posts being deleted is staggering..this only makes the playerbase more angry. It makes it seem like you are deleting anything that you disagree with. This is not a conversation (which it seems like CCP doesn't actually want to have).
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H Zebra
Zebra Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:01:00 -
[1452]
Edited by: H Zebra on 20/11/2009 23:02:48
Originally by: Karlemgne
Edited by: Karlemgne on 20/11/2009 22:58:21
Edited by: Karlemgne on 20/11/2009 22:57:45
Originally by: H Zebra
Originally by: Karlemgne
Originally by: H Zebra
how about you leave all capitals as they are on tq now and if you must, install that bad sov system.
that would be better than screwing over every dread and leaving moms to gather dust in the pos
Half the player base? 98% of the player base doesn't give 2 ****s about mom changes.
And of the 2% that do, only the very vocal half of 1 percent were getting ****ed.
did you read what i posted? half of what? dreads?
edit
My bad, quoted the wrong person.
Okay, add dreads. I fly a Moros. I represent maybe the 10% of the player base that flies dreads.
And I'm not emo ragging at CCP threatening to quit the game.
So how you arrived at 50% of the player base being angry, I still don't understand.
how you arived at me stating anything about the player base is beyond me.
imo dreads are fine the way they are. i fly a moros and a rev, and will use them less after the patch. was looking to gte 2 mom's but hey im not to bothered will just save the isk till there usefull. reading ftw
edited to note edit. bloody forums and mod deleting evrything making them laggy as hell
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Gergragda
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:02:00 -
[1453]
Edited by: Gergragda on 20/11/2009 23:03:20
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Quit letting over eager developers make announcements in devblog comments about what one of the most expensive ships in eve will be like and then try and explain balancing capital weapons around a system that can't be used in capital warfare.
Quit letting forum moderators delete feedback because it doesn't blatantly agree with the drivel that aforementioned over eagar uninformed developers spout.
Listen to your customers that actually use these ships every day
and expect to be called out for stupid game decisions when stupid game decisions are made. If you want constructive criticism it helps to start from a position that doesn't make your customers fill like complete idiots for handing over 15 dollars per account per month.
[1312]
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Itzena
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:02:00 -
[1454]
Originally by: Caladain Barton
Edited by: Caladain Barton on 20/11/2009 23:00:23
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Damage Control
Please forgive my next words, as i want to put this as bluntly as possible without room for any error.
If you're Passionate about this game, why are you letting someone who clearly has no idea how cap battles work post? Or, better yet, if he really is just the mouth piece, why does the dev team have no idea how cap battles work? Why are you putting the Nag back to being a worthless dread? Why is there zero love, and big nerf bat to the caldari dread? (I'm a rev pilot, and don't fly caldari at all, and even i know the math for cruise and torp damage)
Does the Dev team play eve online in 0.0? Does the Dev team have alts in major (top 15) space-holding alliances? Please tell me you all actually play this game, because honestly putting forward "Fit a full rack of highslot DCU's and 3 TP's to kill a sieged dread" only makes us look at the dev team as a whole and wonder about you guys.
Well, they used to, but there were certain...issues, shall we say?
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Wilhelm Caster
Caldari
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:02:00 -
[1455]
Naglfar was finally on par with the other Dreads dps wise and could fit a DECENT tank. Removing the 1 midslot serves what purpose?
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RahSun
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:02:00 -
[1456]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
We also think about the future of the game and how it will be in years to come after our changes weighing the medium- and long-term repercussions.
If you are willing to think long term, also consider the player perspective as well. Please don't dump changes on players with a 2 week window for feedback then, especially on a ship that people often plan months ahead of time when deciding to purchase/build one.
Most people are distressed with 2 things: 1) the sudden shift in the Mothership design plan without the Dev team giving the reasoning behind the changes 2 weeks before a major patch, and 2) the fact that we were expected to need a bellicose support fleet to use missile systems on cap ships or with the proposed fighter bombers.
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Pelvis Rodman
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:02:00 -
[1457]
Edited by: Pelvis Rodman on 20/11/2009 23:04:04
Edited by: Pelvis Rodman on 20/11/2009 23:03:40
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Hi, everyone
We have been carefully watching this thread and I want to set the record straight on a few misconceptions.
First, IÆd like to say that a single developer cannot come in and unilaterally change everything with no oversight. People are spewing a lot of hate at CCP Nozh but instead itÆs a case of shooting the messenger. He is just doing his job trying to improve the game and explain the reasoning for why changes were made. We work as a team and agree on the direction things are taking. We want the game to be balanced and fun for everyone to play. We also think about the future of the game and how it will be in years to come after our changes weighing the medium- and long-term repercussions.
We werenÆt entirely happy with the direction and balancing of MOMs before development of Dominion began. Even during the SISI tests they still werenÆt falling into place for us. They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0. So we tried to tune them again to a point we felt was balanced, but then the role of the ships wasnÆt clear once we started to lower the damage. Instead, they started to blur with dreads and carriers.
You all made your voices clear with important feedback, we listened and reverted things back to like they are on TQ while we take more time to reassess. We could have tried to put out ôsomethingö just because we have been talking about it, but then we would be in a situation where players are getting into ships that might very well change again in a coming patch. Given the amount of work to get one of these we just didnÆt feel that was the right thing to do.
The other misconception I want to address is about our public test server. SISI is there so we can have as many people as possible looking for bugs. We think it best to put things out in the public as soon as possible regardless of whether or not itÆs final so we get more eyes on it. This just makes sense to us from a QA standpoint because EVE is an extremely complex piece of software. SISI isnÆt really meant to be a place to try new fittings, do FFA battles or preview upcoming features, although we know people use it for that and we really donÆt mind because more load on our test server helps us find bugs. ItÆs also not a guarantee as to what will be in the next expansion. There have been plenty of times when we dropped a feature that was partially complete on SISI. Arenas and storefronts are two recent examples. ItÆs highly probable that we like pulling features from a release even less than you do but sometimes it cannot be helped. So while supercarriers were on the test server and had gone through plenty of testing it still wasnÆt guaranteed to end up on TQ in that exact state. Only what lands on TQ on patch day is guaranteed.
Please remember that we are here to make a game that you all love to play. None of us comes to work thinking of ways to enrage the playerbase. As the Lead Game Designer, I take my responsibility seriously and that includes taking responsibility for any decisions made by our team. To me, EVE is much more than a job, itÆs something IÆm passionate about constantly improving. I promise you I want EVE to thrive just as much as you do.
Thanks for listening
CCP Hammerhead
Lead Game Designer
:words:
Basically CCP Nozh doesn't really suck, he's just a voice.
As a team however you all SUCK then, is that more accurate?
Maybe as a company you all SUCK?
Bait and switch, lie, cheat (t20), censor and then **** on your customers with this kind of trash?
GFY
Before and imediately after your post you deleted near two full pages of posts, this kind of response is not going to get better for you.
POST 1316
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tszun
Task Force Zener
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:02:00 -
[1458]
Was good of Hammerhead to post.
However once you remove the padding all he essentialy said was;
Nozh; Dont blame Nozh, blame all of us.
Suppercarriers; What Nozh said.
Sisi; Your testing was a waste of time.
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falcoon24
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:02:00 -
[1459]
With every post you really make it worse. I am playing Eve now for two years. It is the first time, I consider ending my subscription. I payed a lot of money/time to train a Mothership pilot, who is now stucked and 15b investment for the ship itself are simply gone.
I want reimbursement!!! You scammed me.
Seriously, I want my money back.
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Vincent Gaines
Dirt Nap Squad
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:02:00 -
[1460]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Hi, everyone
heya noah
I listened, did you?
You say you read the responses, but haven't addressed them. Why were the changes suggested to the Phoenix ignored? Why was the Nag rolled back to useless?
Why do you feel the supercaps were overpowered? overpowered, what the couple hundred of them? It's not like you're redefining a battleship, it's a ship that a very small percentage can get in.
You didn't make the mom overpowered, you gave it a purpose. You made it a cap killer. That is a shiptype the game has been lacking for years. You made it the combat flagship, and the titan was again the "oh crap" ship.
how was the previous iteration of the SC overpowered? And if so, in my opinion it would have been better to let Seleene's change go onto TQ and had "nerf SCs!" threads. You would have at least made a diffference, a baseline to work with in a live environment.
You could then re-evaluate the situation and make changes based upon how they end up actually used in game.
instead, you are trying to start over. beyond the obvious frustrations you're giving long term player by essentially taking away their shiny new xmas toys, you're also going to come across the same challenges when you try to change them again.
Stop trying to assign a role for the ship, when the actual pilots have told you what they want to do. and they have done it in unison.
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Kuar Z'thain
Fraser's Finest
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:03:00 -
[1461]
Edited by: Kuar Z''thain on 20/11/2009 23:03:54
Deleting posts is non-constructive
Disagreement is constructive
You can have a discussion or you can have censorship, they are mutually exclusive.
1320
Yes I'm going to keep posting this regardless of how often you delete it.
Free Abathur |
Sally Bestonge
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:05:00 -
[1462]
CCP Hammer,
The fact that you renege on changes that proved to be extremely popular shows that your supposed passion does not lie with the players but rather in profits.
On top of that, CCP's public relations with its paying customers has reached an all time low. You do not understand the implications of ignoring your PAYING CUSTOMERS and hiring people who clearly do NOT understand the mechanics of the game.
Yours,
Sally B. et al
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Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:05:00 -
[1463]
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
heya noah
I listened, did you?
You say you read the responses, but haven't addressed them. Why were the changes suggested to the Phoenix ignored? Why was the Nag rolled back to useless?
Why do you feel the supercaps were overpowered? overpowered, what the couple hundred of them? It's not like you're redefining a battleship, it's a ship that a very small percentage can get in.
You didn't make the mom overpowered, you gave it a purpose. You made it a cap killer. That is a shiptype the game has been lacking for years. You made it the combat flagship, and the titan was again the "oh crap" ship.
how was the previous iteration of the SC overpowered? And if so, in my opinion it would have been better to let Seleene's change go onto TQ and had "nerf SCs!" threads. You would have at least made a diffference, a baseline to work with in a live environment.
You could then re-evaluate the situation and make changes based upon how they end up actually used in game.
instead, you are trying to start over. beyond the obvious frustrations you're giving long term player by essentially taking away their shiny new xmas toys, you're also going to come across the same challenges when you try to change them again.
Stop trying to assign a role for the ship, when the actual pilots have told you what they want to do. and they have done it in unison.
your name is pretty close to vincent gallo but im not going to hold it against you because this is a pretty good post
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Grimpak
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:06:00 -
[1464]
Edited by: Grimpak on 20/11/2009 23:07:27
Originally by: CCP Hammer
stuff
goddamnit man, how hard can it be?
carriers: capital fleet workhorse
dreadnaughts: fleet XL turret batteries
motherships: fleet logistical core
titan: mobile battlestation
there, here's a set of roles, now expand it.
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Strabo44
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:06:00 -
[1465]
Edited by: Strabo44 on 20/11/2009 23:06:29
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Hi, everyone
heya noah
I listened, did you?
You say you read the responses, but haven't addressed them. Why were the changes suggested to the Phoenix ignored? Why was the Nag rolled back to useless?
Why do you feel the supercaps were overpowered? overpowered, what the couple hundred of them? It's not like you're redefining a battleship, it's a ship that a very small percentage can get in.
You didn't make the mom overpowered, you gave it a purpose. You made it a cap killer. That is a shiptype the game has been lacking for years. You made it the combat flagship, and the titan was again the "oh crap" ship.
how was the previous iteration of the SC overpowered? And if so, in my opinion it would have been better to let Seleene's change go onto TQ and had "nerf SCs!" threads. You would have at least made a diffference, a baseline to work with in a live environment.
You could then re-evaluate the situation and make changes based upon how they end up actually used in game.
instead, you are trying to start over. beyond the obvious frustrations you're giving long term player by essentially taking away their shiny new xmas toys, you're also going to come across the same challenges when you try to change them again.
Stop trying to assign a role for the ship, when the actual pilots have told you what they want to do. and they have done it in unison.
1324/45
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Fufinski
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:06:00 -
[1466]
Cool, I got a post deleted. Way to handle things, guys, you'll go places. Probably the unemployment office will be one of the first.
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Roffle Lawler
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:06:00 -
[1467]
I am seriously going to lose my **** if I see someone call a mothership or supercarrier a "mom".
What the **** is wrong with you people?
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Orb Vex
THE R0NIN
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:07:00 -
[1468]
Hi page 45! Again!
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paik
Minmatar
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:07:00 -
[1469]
Originally by: Vadinho
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
heya noah
I listened, did you?
You say you read the responses, but haven't addressed them. Why were the changes suggested to the Phoenix ignored? Why was the Nag rolled back to useless?
Why do you feel the supercaps were overpowered? overpowered, what the couple hundred of them? It's not like you're redefining a battleship, it's a ship that a very small percentage can get in.
You didn't make the mom overpowered, you gave it a purpose. You made it a cap killer. That is a shiptype the game has been lacking for years. You made it the combat flagship, and the titan was again the "oh crap" ship.
how was the previous iteration of the SC overpowered? And if so, in my opinion it would have been better to let Seleene's change go onto TQ and had "nerf SCs!" threads. You would have at least made a diffference, a baseline to work with in a live environment.
You could then re-evaluate the situation and make changes based upon how they end up actually used in game.
instead, you are trying to start over. beyond the obvious frustrations you're giving long term player by essentially taking away their shiny new xmas toys, you're also going to come across the same challenges when you try to change them again.
Stop trying to assign a role for the ship, when the actual pilots have told you what they want to do. and they have done it in unison.
your name is pretty close to vincent gallo but im not going to hold it against you because this is a pretty good post
This tbh
________________________________________
LOLNOZHLOL |
Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:08:00 -
[1470]
Originally by: Roffle Lawler
I am seriously going to lose my **** if I see someone call a mothership or supercarrier a "mom".
What the **** is wrong with you people?
Can I spend my iskies on a mommy with some smarties, plox?!!!!
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Navick
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:09:00 -
[1471]
Do you guys really think deleting my post about you guys deleting posts somehow makes it any less true?
There is nothing offensive, rude, or "trolling" in my post. So what's your justification - "truth hurts"?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Sir, sir! The players are really upset about the latest dev blog... there's a threadnaught forming on the forums about it!"
"Ah, that's nothing to worry about. Just start deleting all the negative posts you can, as fast as you can."
"But that... wait, what?"
"Relaaax, if we delete the posts then it's like it never happened! *Click click* See? No post, no problem "
Originally post# 1343, pg. 45
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Der Lemming
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:09:00 -
[1472]
Another slap in the face
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Undertow Latheus
Minmatar
Monolithic.
Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:11:00 -
[1473]
Oh yeah, and regarding noah's post, it really only addresses moms. Whilst that is a huge part of the playerbase's frustration, you fail to mention any of the other things that people have been screaming about.
Exactly how is instapopping a dread every ten minutes significant in a large cap fight? It will only conceivably be useful for hit and runs on lone caps on stations and such. I thought we were trying to get away from those tactics?
Why does the Phoenix, already considered to be by a fairly large margin the worst dread, getting nerfed in the form of ludicrously high explosion radius? I'm sorry, but it's just stupid on epic proportions that it will do less than 1/2 damage on a small tower, and only about 50-80% damage (depending on if there is a ragnarok or claymore in enemy gang) on its primary target, sieged dreads.
Why is the Naglfar getting a stealth nerf? Ever since the nag has existed up until a few months ago, it was considered by everyone in the game to be absolute garbage, with its only merit that its 'FREAKIN VERTICAL'. CCP finally listened to the hordes of upset minmatar pilots screaming for balance and made it useful with two 7.5% dps bonuses to turrets and one more mid slot, making it possible to have a respectable shield tank. Now after just a few months of it being decent, you stealth nerf its skill bonuses without saying anything about it, even when questioned. It's not just frustrating that its getting nerfed, but that we have no clue WHY you're doing it. Talk to us FFS.
Short range XL weapon balance. Or lack thereof. First, we've already established that citadel torpedoes are complete garbage thanks to their explosion radius. Now on to the turrets. In the devblog such ridiculous comments were made such as "While the 6x2500mm Repeating artillery might look poor, the fact that it doesn't consume any capacitor must be taken into consideration. With a single Gyrostabilizer it overtakes the Ion Siege blaster in damage and has excellent falloff."
What??? And with 3 gyros a tempest will do as much damage as a megathron without any magstabs. Therefore, Tempest and large AC's do as much damage as large blasters. Furthermore, the range on autocannons is just abysmal. It says that AC's have a range bonus of falloff, but ccp/nozh seems to pretend that a revelation or moros wont simply switch to longer range ammo and be doing MORE dps, IN OPTIMAL than the AC's. Real nice. The same holds true with artillery -- The graph shows that artillery has more dps at range thanks to its falloff, but the graph only shows when using short range ammo. In reality, the revelation or moros wont just sit there missing with short range ammo while the arty does more dps in falloff, they'll just once again load long range ammo and completely slaughter the artillery in every way.
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McTecman
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:12:00 -
[1474]
Originally by: Ghuarran
I respect your position, I really do. But it's kind of disturbing that such a director could publish changes as sweeping as this, referencing mechanics that simply do not work in game, and have the team not notice or care. Surely a team of developers would notice that you cannot target paint supercaps, or seiged dreadnaughts. Shouldn't that thing have been caught?
I'd like to believe they'd notice as well. But in the end, this is the development team that allowed the infamous "boot.ini" fiasco to happen.
It's one thing to explain that changes on SiSi don't always translate into changes on Tranquility via patch or an expansion, because that's obvious with a piece of software like EVE that's constantly a work in progress. However, it's an entirely another situation where one of the changes inside an upcoming expansion that's essentially two weeks from launching isn't up to spec yet or has directly conflicting settings which "break" a certain, quite expensive, playstyle - ESPECIALLY if the player group that will end up being the target usergroup has done so much in terms of testing and feedback on the entire situation and was more or less happy with the proposed, initial variables (and was expecting nothing more than tweaks, not a goddamn chainsaw).
If the developers feel like something is amiss, don't try to forcefully release an unfinished expansion, especially one that involves a very delicate network of endgame player-driven space empires and warfare with tons of possible screw-ups. I'm starting to understand why 0.0 has been left alone for so long, it's essentially a designer's nightmare to fix.
The funny bit however is that all it took was to slightly alter Supercarriers and we would've been fine. Now we're stuck with this mess.
Honestly, either delay all of Dominion, or delay the entire Capital and Supercapital restructuring so you don't break it all by having one or more of the set pieces out of focus or sub-parly designed.
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Isil Rahsen
Gallente
Ferrum Superum
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:13:00 -
[1475]
I am going to post this on every page til I get an answer.
Originally by: Isil Rahsen
OK then CCP Hammerhead, I would like your *teams* decision making process on returning the Naglfar to a useless split weaponed piece of crap after only one patch cycle of being fixed? Why could the bonuses have not been adjusted but LEFT ON THE GUNS? I'm really trying to understand the rationale here when even CCP have admitted split weapons systems are fail hence the change to the Nag to double gun bonuses in the first place.
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Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:13:00 -
[1476]
Originally by: Undertow Latheus
Oh yeah, and regarding noah's post, it really only addresses moms. Whilst that is a huge part of the playerbase's frustration, you fail to mention any of the other things that people have been screaming about.
Exactly how is instapopping a dread every ten minutes significant in a large cap fight? It will only conceivably be useful for hit and runs on lone caps on stations and such. I thought we were trying to get away from those tactics?
Why does the Phoenix, already considered to be by a fairly large margin the worst dread, getting nerfed in the form of ludicrously high explosion radius? I'm sorry, but it's just stupid on epic proportions that it will do less than 1/2 damage on a small tower, and only about 50-80% damage (depending on if there is a ragnarok or claymore in enemy gang) on its primary target, sieged dreads.
Why is the Naglfar getting a stealth nerf? Ever since the nag has existed up until a few months ago, it was considered by everyone in the game to be absolute garbage, with its only merit that its 'FREAKIN VERTICAL'. CCP finally listened to the hordes of upset minmatar pilots screaming for balance and made it useful with two 7.5% dps bonuses to turrets and one more mid slot, making it possible to have a respectable shield tank. Now after just a few months of it being decent, you stealth nerf its skill bonuses without saying anything about it, even when questioned. It's not just frustrating that its getting nerfed, but that we have no clue WHY you're doing it. Talk to us FFS.
Short range XL weapon balance. Or lack thereof. First, we've already established that citadel torpedoes are complete garbage thanks to their explosion radius. Now on to the turrets. In the devblog such ridiculous comments were made such as "While the 6x2500mm Repeating artillery might look poor, the fact that it doesn't consume any capacitor must be taken into consideration. With a single Gyrostabilizer it overtakes the Ion Siege blaster in damage and has excellent falloff."
What??? And with 3 gyros a tempest will do as much damage as a megathron without any magstabs. Therefore, Tempest and large AC's do as much damage as large blasters. Furthermore, the range on autocannons is just abysmal. It says that AC's have a range bonus of falloff, but ccp/nozh seems to pretend that a revelation or moros wont simply switch to longer range ammo and be doing MORE dps, IN OPTIMAL than the AC's. Real nice. The same holds true with artillery -- The graph shows that artillery has more dps at range thanks to its falloff, but the graph only shows when using short range ammo. In reality, the revelation or moros wont just sit there missing with short range ammo while the arty does more dps in falloff, they'll just once again load long range ammo and completely slaughter the artillery in every way.
this is also a good post
ccp hammerhead are you getting this because youve got customers thinking circles around your development team
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KeratinBoy
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:15:00 -
[1477]
Edited by: KeratinBoy on 20/11/2009 23:15:01
Dominion is pretty much a joke now. It is a mess, an unbalanced mess. Your handling of player concerns is abysmal. Your obvious evasions of core matters bespeaks of spinelessness and ignorance. Your censorship makes your claims of listening to feedback a lie. Your credibility approaches zero (again) and still you insist on trying the same things that repeatedly do not work.
Small children learn to not touch hot things when they burn themselves, why don't you?
1336, p45
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Ramon Cajal
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:16:00 -
[1478]
Originally by: McTecman
Originally by: Ghuarran
I respect your position, I really do. But it's kind of disturbing that such a director could publish changes as sweeping as this, referencing mechanics that simply do not work in game, and have the team not notice or care. Surely a team of developers would notice that you cannot target paint supercaps, or seiged dreadnaughts. Shouldn't that thing have been caught?
I'd like to believe they'd notice as well. But in the end, this is the development team that allowed the infamous "boot.ini" fiasco to happen.
It's one thing to explain that changes on SiSi don't always translate into changes on Tranquility via patch or an expansion, because that's obvious with a piece of software like EVE that's constantly a work in progress. However, it's an entirely another situation where one of the changes inside an upcoming expansion that's essentially two weeks from launching isn't up to spec yet or has directly conflicting settings which "break" a certain, quite expensive, playstyle - ESPECIALLY if the player group that will end up being the target usergroup has done so much in terms of testing and feedback on the entire situation and was more or less happy with the proposed, initial variables (and was expecting nothing more than tweaks, not a goddamn chainsaw).
If the developers feel like something is amiss, don't try to forcefully release an unfinished expansion, especially one that involves a very delicate network of endgame player-driven space empires and warfare with tons of possible screw-ups. I'm starting to understand why 0.0 has been left alone for so long, it's essentially a designer's nightmare to fix.
The funny bit however is that all it took was to slightly alter Supercarriers and we would've been fine. Now we're stuck with this mess.
Honestly, either delay all of Dominion, or delay the entire Capital and Supercapital restructuring so you don't break it all by having one or more of the set pieces out of focus or sub-parly designed.
This man, or whatever, is right.
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mwarp out
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:16:00 -
[1479]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Hi, everyone
We have been carefully watching this thread and I want to set the record straight on a few misconceptions.
First, IÆd like to say that a single developer cannot come in and unilaterally change everything with no oversight. People are spewing a lot of hate at CCP Nozh but instead itÆs a case of shooting the messenger. He is just doing his job trying to improve the game and explain the reasoning for why changes were made. We work as a team and agree on the direction things are taking. We want the game to be balanced and fun for everyone to play. We also think about the future of the game and how it will be in years to come after our changes weighing the medium- and long-term repercussions.
We werenÆt entirely happy with the direction and balancing of MOMs before development of Dominion began. Even during the SISI tests they still werenÆt falling into place for us. They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0. So we tried to tune them again to a point we felt was balanced, but then the role of the ships wasnÆt clear once we started to lower the damage. Instead, they started to blur with dreads and carriers.
You all made your voices clear with important feedback, we listened and reverted things back to like they are on TQ while we take more time to reassess. We could have tried to put out ôsomethingö just because we have been talking about it, but then we would be in a situation where players are getting into ships that might very well change again in a coming patch. Given the amount of work to get one of these we just didnÆt feel that was the right thing to do.
Please remember that we are here to make a game that you all love to play. None of us comes to work thinking of ways to enrage the playerbase. As the Lead Game Designer, I take my responsibility seriously and that includes taking responsibility for any decisions made by our team. To me, EVE is much more than a job, itÆs something IÆm passionate about constantly improving. I promise you I want EVE to thrive just as much as you do.
Thanks for listening
CCP Hammerhead
Lead Game Designer
So, in other words, you do not understand capital ships either?
* Carriers are the main repair boat. It dies against other caps/BS when ECM'd. It can then triage, but against to much DPS it still dies. It is very useful for personal logistics.
* Dreads are the main fist of all empires. It is useless on an individual basis. It is the bane of towers and other caps. Can be used against battleships if your side control the field.
* Motherships, if they got the extra HP and some high damage drones and dish out 6-8k DPS against cap ships would be the counter to a dread fleet. Currently, the only thing to counter a dread fleet, is a larger dread fleet. If the bomber-drones could not be handed out to other ships I would have no issue with. That the MOM only had Bandwidth for 10 drones doing 600-800dps each would be fine. (less lag, more expensive drones)
* Titans where the bane of all fun when 3 or more where in play under a jammer. The AOE DD where removed, and replaced with something that will kill an unchanged MOM in a heartbeat.
Now, these Motherships with the 8k DPS, attacking a Dreadfleet... what happen to their DPS if the dreads are supported by hounds? DPS go to 0. What happens to the motherships when they are bubbled and a dread fleet shoots them? they die. What counters that the dreads kill the MOMs? (Triage) carriers. And who would cry after sending 10 motherships after 30 hac's? The previous owner of the dead drones... thats who.
Also make it so that Motherships can not dock if they have a PeeVeePee timer (they have been shot, agressed them selves or tried to warp out of a bubble in the last 15 min, like the logout thing) to fix the undock-games issue.
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Ragel Tropxe
DEATHFUNK
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:18:00 -
[1480]
just remove ALL of the capital changes from Dominion. If you go ahead with any of them in isolation youre creating a trainwreck waiting to happen,
Spend time working with the playerbase to determine roles for all Capital class ships and then balance around that.
All youre doing at the moment is rolling out changes in seemingly random, uncoordinated manner. Youre being reactive to balance issues whihc are cropping up by making further changes "on the fly" - which in turn are giving you even more balance issues.
as an example - the changes to Dread weapons started because you made Titans into "super Dreads" and then realised that they would then pwn sub cap fleets - I think this is what causes them anyway. Actually I suspect that you guys have forgotten what the reason for changing them is.
Golden rule - if youre in a hole - STOP DIGGING.
PAUSE
REFLECT
CONSULT
PLAN
IMPLEMENT
REVIEW
its not hard
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Ker HarSol
Minmatar
Zip - I
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:19:00 -
[1481]
Edited by: Ker HarSol on 20/11/2009 23:20:41
I tell you, this will end pretty badly.
Also: how the **** can you release half the supercapitals with the new bonus and half the supercapitals with the old bonus? Where is logic in that? Where is game balancing in that?
If you don't have time to balance the supercapitals then KEEP THEM AT THE CURRENT STATE!!
But just doing one half and the other half not it really idiotic.
This will end up soooo badly.
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Rough Necks
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:20:00 -
[1482]
Edited by: Catari Taga on 20/11/2009 23:20:21
STOP DELETING POSTS! I NEEDED TO GO BACK THREE TIMES TO FIND THIS ONE JUST TO QUOTE IT, IT'S POST NUMBER WAS CHANGING SO QUICKLY. THIS IS RIDICULOUS!
Originally by: teji
Originally by: CCP Hammer
He is just doing his job trying to improve the game and explain the reasoning for why changes were made.
There was no explanation as to why changes were made. References to target painters and dreads is not a reason, it's a troll.
Quote:
We weren’t entirely happy with the direction and balancing of MOMs before development of Dominion began. Even during the SISI tests they still weren’t falling into place for us. They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0.
That's news to most people here. Many thought the changes were quite fun. Referring to DCUs and supercarriers also not a reason for changes, it's also a troll.
Quote:
You all made your voices clear with important feedback, we listened and reverted things back to like they are on TQ while we take more time to reassess.
Ah but you aren't. The Nag looks to be getting re-nerfed to uselessness. The titans will now destroy motherships in 2 hits without the hitpoint buff. Things are changing.
Quote:
Only what lands on TQ on patch day is guaranteed.
The truest statement in your whole post.
Quote:
Please remember that we are here to make a game that you all love to play. None of us comes to work thinking of ways to enrage the playerbase.
State reasons and back up those reasons with facts. Anything else will generally enrage your playerbase.
That's exactly the point, noone expects stuff to hit TQ exactly like it was on SiSi, but you can't come in, involve players for months in discussions and actual tests and then throw it all out of the window without a single word in favor of some charts which don't even apply.
I don't even fly a Mom or a Nag but I'm just appalled by the way this is being handled. EVE is a game about long-term commitment, there is no other game which requires planning ahead for months or years even for things as basic as your skill training plan. What this has brought the game is a lot of dedicated and thus passionate players and there is probably no MMO out there with so many people paying for more than one account. If you don't understand that this part of dedication in the playerbase not only expects but requires a somewhat reliable outlook into which direction the game is going that is a sad thing.
You expect a player to dedicate months or even years of training time to fly a capital or supercapital ship and now you are making weekly changes without a clear direction (there was clear direction when CCP Abathur was leading the discussion which is why it was well received in the playerbase, it set a basis for the discussion). Current changes feel random and the devblog as well as your posts confirm that. Don't try to cover that fact up with shiny charts of half-truths that don't reflect any real situations on TQ (3 TP 5 DCU Moms) and by committing to haphazard changes (Nag nerf, Titans insta-popping moms) but take a step back, delay all the changes and discuss with the playerbase until you find a new and possibly better vision of where you want to take the endgame. By committing to half of the changes now forces you do balance everything around them unless you want to undo them later.
edit: [1341]
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Kalexander
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:20:00 -
[1483]
What's funny is they've clearly now admitted that they haven't reached their goal yet.
And we need to admit that its a much more complex problem than we're giving it enough credit for. If we took any number of supposed good ideas from this lol fest of a thread and broke it off into its own to have an intricate discussion about the proposed solution you would see as many people shooting it down as you would supporting it.
That being said, in agile software development like scrum, you are not supposed to ship until you've fulfilled your user stories. So they should be pushing this all back, not releasing half finished features.
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Lucas Tigh
United Systems Navy
Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:21:00 -
[1484]
At least the Moros was put back to TQ values a while ago.
Right guys?
Guys?
-------------------------------------
CCP, make me a winner.
I win. |
ztrsfjgkc
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:21:00 -
[1485]
So my question will it be possible to fight 3 or more titans effective, which warps in at 240 km and instapop some dreads, with this range and tracking changes if u get them bubbled or not? Because Phoenixes won¦t hit them anyway because of the ****ty range of the missls and naglfars only with the half dmg because they use 2 launchers aswell? |
Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:22:00 -
[1486]
Originally by: mwarp out
Also make it so that Motherships can not dock if they have a PeeVeePee timer (they have been shot, agressed them selves or tried to warp out of a bubble in the last 15 min, like the logout thing) to fix the undock-games issue.
i personally like the idea of supercarrier docking being a destructible station service with comparatively low hp that can be added as an upgrade to player-built outposts
both of these are pretty good ideas that have been proposed before and id be happy with either one but hey lets just go back to the drawing board and worry about it in six months so we can disappoint our customers again thats a far more responsible attitude to take towards business
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Da Maddness
Minmatar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:23:00 -
[1487]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
We werenÆt entirely happy with the direction and balancing of MOMs before development of Dominion began. Even during the SISI tests they still werenÆt falling into place for us. They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0.
Personally I love how there are huge WTF ships in this game that deal out massive damage. Remember the sence of achevement and joy when the first titan was taken down or the "HOLY CRAP" everyone thinks when they read about a group of motherships being destroyed?
While having capital ships that destroy everything is fun for the cap ship pilot, having a group organised enough to take down those ships is by far much more fun.
Also we want fighter bombers!
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Isil Rahsen
Gallente
Ferrum Superum
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:24:00 -
[1488]
Originally by: Lucas Tigh
At least the Moros was put back to TQ values a while ago.
Right guys?
Guys?
Don't worry, a few days before it hits TQ then will slip in the nerf on it too. Capital weapon balance is all kinds of screwed up along with a bunce of dread nerfs.
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Promethian child
Amarr
0utbreak
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:24:00 -
[1489]
CCP since you are doing such a ****job at customer relations that you have to resort to deleting posts, feel free to contact
me on public relations and management when facing a vocal demanding client base.
If not i think the people's republic of china has some openings for censors.
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mwarp out
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:25:00 -
[1490]
"We werenÆt entirely happy with the direction and balancing of MOMs before development of Dominion began. Even during the SISI tests they still werenÆt falling into place for us. They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0. So we tried to tune them again to a point we felt was balanced, but then the role of the ships wasnÆt clear once we started to lower the damage. Instead, they started to blur with dreads and carriers."
Some CCP dev:
Hey guys guys.. lets make a BIG ship able to shoot a DOOMSDAY through space to a frigate with a beacon on it?? COOL, ehh?
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:29:00 -
[1491]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 20/11/2009 23:33:47
Originally by: CCP Hammer
People are spewing a lot of hate at CCP Nozh but instead itÆs a case of shooting the messenger.
"shooting the messenger" implies the person delivering the news has nothing to do with the news being delivered. This is absolutely not the case here.
Quote:
Even during the SISI tests they still werenÆt falling into place for us.
Yet none of you ever expressed this concern. nor did you ever say "hey, we are concerned these ships might end up being too powerful and here's why. Thoughts/concerns/suggestions?". What happened was massive changes were suddenly thrown on SISI weeks before the set deployment date and then none of you bothered to mention a word for 2 days. And even then what was said was vague, short and full of pretty obvious misconceptions as far as how things work on TQ.
Quote:
They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0.
The thousands of what were going to be instapopped? If you were worried about F/B effectiveness against subcaps (mainly with rapier/huggin TP/web support), increase explosion velocity, but adjust damage so dps against dreads remains about the same. DPS against carriers/supercaps would go up, but as they could partially speedtank F/Bs anyways, this is NBD.
Quote:
So we tried to tune them again to a point we felt was balanced, but then the role of the ships wasnÆt clear once we started to lower the damage. Instead, they started to blur with dreads and carriers.
You cut their price and damage in half, over double the explosion radius then made them dockable. Enormous changes that weren't thought through at all. That isn't "tuning".
Quote:
We could have tried to put out ôsomethingö just because we have been talking about it, but then we would be in a situation where players are getting into ships that might very well change again in a coming patch. Given the amount of work to get one of these we just didnÆt feel that was the right thing to do.
So promise us to continue working on mom changes immediately after Dom is sucessfully put in and that you'll set your goal as having proper changes implemented in dominion 1.1. That isn't hard.
Quote:
So while supercarriers were on the test server and had gone through plenty of testing it still wasnÆt guaranteed to end up on TQ in that exact state. Only what lands on TQ on patch day is guaranteed.
See my 2nd reply
Quote:
None of us comes to work thinking of ways to enrage the playerbase. As the Lead Game Designer, I take my responsibility seriously and that includes taking responsibility for any decisions made by our team.
Then maybe you should make playing the actual game mandatory. That way you wont have things like suggesting moms fit 5 DCUs to have effective DPS, or require multiple TPs to be effective against their primary target (which can't be TP'd 99% of the time, anyways), or letting them dock, something that was scoffed at by CCP staff at fanfest and by the vast majority of intelligent cap pilots as a terrible, terrible idea.
Quote:
None of us comes to work thinking of ways to enrage the playerbase.
Obviously not, but the poor way things some things are handled by your staff does a very good job of enraging us, regardless.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
cpu939
Gallente
Volatile Nature
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:32:00 -
[1492]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Hi, everyone
We werenÆt entirely happy with the direction and balancing of MOMs before development of Dominion began. Even during the SISI tests they still werenÆt falling into place for us. They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0. So we tried to tune them again to a point we felt was balanced, but then the role of the ships wasnÆt clear once we started to lower the damage. Instead, they started to blur with dreads and carriers.
ok so your idea is to have an insta poping ship call the titan and have it be able to kill all ships below it with minimum force most of the o.o holding alliance have 4-5 titans if not more so that 2 minute refire rate if there on the field at the same time it plus it has the capital weapons. yet the moms that had the hp and the tools to kill the titans are now being let go nice. to me the titan is a large dread now yes it is nice and shinny but it has the same role as a dread in that it is an anti capital ship and pos killer sure you can't use the dd on the pos but the capital modules make up for that.
with your statement you said it was a team that took the 20 fighters on sisi and droped them to 10 same as a carrier and you didn't think that was a blur till we started to point it out. why was there no post from ccp to say look we are not sure on the way the moms are going we would like to try a few new things we know its the 11th hour but we need you to test it and most of the problems would have been steamed out information is your best tool.
also was it the team that came up with the fact that capital fight are not close range. thus the changes to dreads.
ok if it is a team job as you state i now feel sorry for nozh he had it in the neck with the carrier change a few years ago and now as lead game designer you put him back in the firing line, man i glad i'm not him with a boss like you i would be suprized if he didn't go of with depression you all know he had done the dev blog for carriers and also posted twice on the 1st forum topic on this and them you make him do the dev blog man that nice. once believe working for ccp would be good not anymore.
to ccp hammer why not atlest give teh hp bonus at lest then we might field them on the field but with the titan dd being what it is no thank you.
0101011 001101111 011011000 110000101110100 01101001011011000 1100101001000000 1001110011000010 11101000111010101 11001001100101
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JonnY JohnStone
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:32:00 -
[1493]
Hrm, so what is Dominion gonna offer other than the silly new sov system. This was suppose to be the 0.0 overhaul patch i thought. You cant tell the players for 6 months that a ship is gonna have major change and then pull the plug 2 weeks before going live and not expect a little guff.
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saango0
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:33:00 -
[1494]
so i herd u liek deleting 10 pages of posts
btw wtf is up with naglfar and citadel torps and moms and...
you ****ed up.
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Obsidian Hawk
Free Galactic Enterprises
FREGE
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:33:00 -
[1495]
Everyone quiet and stop the hate for 5 mins
Lets review ----
motherships are not being changed they are going to be like tq motherships atm.
-- not mentioned, CCP never said they werent getting an hp buff, you all are just assuming they wont. So shush, wait for them to give more details.
second,
-- This is not the place to rant about nag, moros, and phoenix, test server feed back is in a different forum.
third
Nozh is a messenger, so that means he drew the short straw when or lost a bet to the rest of the staff about announcing the changes. Nozh thank you for taking it in stride, you deserve a beer, especially after all the crap we have put you through.
4th
Hammer, you did a fairly good job of explaining everything, but when you answered many of the questions you left a lot more to be asked, you may want to make a long detailed dev blog about all the capital changes and why.
5th,
everyone stop posting for a while, its friday, go get a beer, drink a little bit and relax, calm down and come back to the forums and make some intelligent post.
Everyone, just needs to relax seriously. Our testing was not in vain, we just showed to them there might be several balancing issues that could result.
We have learned though from press releases and articles that show how much players care about their game.
CCP devs, thank you for taking the hate storm in stride, you guys do put up with a lot. It's just going to take some time for the anger to calm down and we can get on with the release of dominion.
Once again everyone stop the hate, let the devs and gms spend time working on dominion rather than be forum police.
-OH
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Isil Rahsen
Gallente
Ferrum Superum
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:33:00 -
[1496]
Edited by: Isil Rahsen on 20/11/2009 23:33:58
Originally by: Isil Rahsen
I am going to post this on every page til I get an answer.
Originally by: Isil Rahsen
OK then CCP Hammerhead, I would like your *teams* decision making process on returning the Naglfar to a useless split weaponed piece of crap after only one patch cycle of being fixed? Why could the bonuses have not been adjusted but LEFT ON THE GUNS? I'm really trying to understand the rationale here when even CCP have admitted split weapons systems are fail hence the change to the Nag to double gun bonuses in the first place.
Post [1356]
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New ones
Caldari
Koln united
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:35:00 -
[1497]
Thread finaly upp on eve-serch it's 50 pages!
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1217073/page/50
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Buxaroo
Gallente
The Maverick Navy
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:35:00 -
[1498]
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
heya noah
I listened, did you?
You say you read the responses, but haven't addressed them. Why were the changes suggested to the Phoenix ignored? Why was the Nag rolled back to useless?
Why do you feel the supercaps were overpowered? overpowered, what the couple hundred of them? It's not like you're redefining a battleship, it's a ship that a very small percentage can get in.
You didn't make the mom overpowered, you gave it a purpose. You made it a cap killer. That is a shiptype the game has been lacking for years. You made it the combat flagship, and the titan was again the "oh crap" ship.
how was the previous iteration of the SC overpowered? And if so, in my opinion it would have been better to let Seleene's change go onto TQ and had "nerf SCs!" threads. You would have at least made a diffference, a baseline to work with in a live environment.
You could then re-evaluate the situation and make changes based upon how they end up actually used in game.
instead, you are trying to start over. beyond the obvious frustrations you're giving long term player by essentially taking away their shiny new xmas toys, you're also going to come across the same challenges when you try to change them again.
Stop trying to assign a role for the ship, when the actual pilots have told you what they want to do. and they have done it in unison.
Spot on. Bolded the really important parts. And Hammer, you didn't answer a single question about our concerns or our feedback.
If you are thinking of long term goals, then how pray tell does breaking a promise to some of your most loyal and long term customers fit in? If you want to get more people into 0.0, how would this effect that? You are not answering questions, you are just sticking up for your guys and telling us that long term goals are what you are thinking about. How does Dust514 fit into this mothership and dread nerf? Why **** off so many long term and loyal customers? You forget how many us are SWG refugees. This whole thing smells like a under handed nerfing like NGE was. We know the stink very well.
This isn't some uber rich guy *****ing cus his toy was nerfed. This is someone who has been a steadfast and loyal fan of CCP since he defected from SOE. I did a lot of real work to get into a ship that was promised to be something that was actually going to be flyable. But all of that is now a waste of time while you guys get around to figuring something out, meanwhile I have wasted time and money to train for something that was by ALL reason going to be something worth the time and effort.
This whole thing looks like a bait and switch to me and many others. It's that simple. And getting no real reasons for why it was swept under the rug makes it even feel even more like that every post you guys make. I am not some troll who just wants to **** on CCP. Look at my past posts, you never saw me post anything bad about CCP because in the end you always pulled through and I understood your long term goals. But I fail to see how any of this would screw up any future plans with EVE in anyway.
So, explain why these supercap and dread changes were thrown away and replaced by super nerfs? What is the real reason behind the nerfs? Excuse me if I seem a bit non trusting, but you have to earn my trust after these ninja nerfs were introduced.
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Moctobot
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:36:00 -
[1499]
i sure am excited about this New Game Experience
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ZebedeeUK
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:37:00 -
[1500]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
First, IÆd like to say that a single developer cannot come in and unilaterally change everything with no oversight.
[/Quote]
That's actually more worrying. I'd prefer to believe that only one of you was completely incompetent rather than the entire team.
[Quote]
We could have tried to put out ôsomethingö just because we have been talking about it, but then we would be in a situation where players are getting into ships that might very well change again in a coming patch. Given the amount of work to get one of these we just didnÆt feel that was the right thing to do.
[/Quote]
This issue is important enough to delay the patch to get it right. The players affected are the longest running, most dedicated and most experienced ones. I.e. the ones you want to keep.
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darkmancer
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:38:00 -
[1501]
Is it me or does the DPS on those graphs make no sense?
Mind you the entire dev blog seems out there.
Ohh the Phoenix with torpedoes is designed to do extra damage to MOM's and Titans at close range. Wow. Specialising in something which has no serious practical application in game... nice.
---------------------------------
There's a simple solution to every problem. It is always invariably wrong |
Dominique Haze
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:38:00 -
[1502]
Edited by: Dominique Haze on 20/11/2009 23:38:47
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Hi, everyone
We have been carefully watching this thread and I want to set the record straight on a few misconceptions.
To me, EVE is much more than a job, itÆs something IÆm passionate about constantly improving. I promise you I want EVE to thrive just as much as you do.
Thanks for listening
CCP Hammerhead
Lead Game Designer
Here's a thought...do your job and stop trying to screw over the customers. When the people paying your salary start to complain, maybe they should be listened to. That would be different from your tactic of ignoring us.
Thanks for listening,
CCP Customer
Internet Spaceship Pilot
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Itzena
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:38:00 -
[1503]
Originally by: New ones
Thread finaly upp on eve-serch it's 50 pages!
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1217073/page/50
Well that's odd - this one only has 46.
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Von Kleist
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:39:00 -
[1504]
So is there going to be any real response besides deleting posts to this topic, or is that too much to ask for?
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Anna Kommenos
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:39:00 -
[1505]
Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
Originally by: Arramis
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Hello everyone,
While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly.
We would also advise you that posting "٩๏̯͡๏)۶" or "Free Abathur" are considered spam and will also be removed.
ASK ABATHUR...HE HAS SOME FEEDBACK!!!
I'm going to give you personal +10 for this post. Because. It is the best post.
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD IDEAS ABOUT 0.0 IS NOT A CRIME
seriously, im almost willing to spend the $10 on SA.com then join goonfleet specifically so i can trib him for it...
ccp this is plain rediculous.
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD IDEAS ABOUT 0.0 IS NOT A CRIME
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Lord Helghast
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:40:00 -
[1506]
i have a question for the CCP Team, and this is coming from a sub-capital pilot...
why not leave the MOM as it was after the last change of 15 fighter bombers with tracking issues against the smaller ships with their HP bonus (to negate the bonus the titan is getting)
without the HP bonus many large titan weilding corps that have 2+ titans can hot drop a mom and insta-pop the moms if things remain how they are...
with 15 fighters and the latest changes yes things werent perfect and no they might not hit 100% of what you wanted the MOM to be but atleast it was better than nothing.
If your not going to boost the mom you mise as well nerf the changes to the titans as well at this point.
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KeratinBoy
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:40:00 -
[1507]
Originally by: Itzena
Originally by: New ones
Thread finaly upp on eve-serch it's 50 pages!
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1217073/page/50
Well that's odd - this one only has 46.
What's odd about it is that the other thread only has 50 pages.
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Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:41:00 -
[1508]
Originally by: ZebedeeUK
This issue is important enough to delay the patch to get it right. The players affected are the longest running, most dedicated and most experienced ones. I.e. the ones you want to keep.
This assumes they want to keep any players at all, and I am not convinced this is the case.
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Moctobot
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:41:00 -
[1509]
Originally by: Itzena
Originally by: New ones
Thread finaly upp on eve-serch it's 50 pages!
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1217073/page/50
Well that's odd - this one only has 46.
if you delete posts they never happened
luv2delete posts
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tx eight
Minmatar
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:41:00 -
[1510]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
Lets review ----
motherships are not being changed they are going to be like tq motherships atm.
-- not mentioned, CCP never said they werent getting an hp buff, you all are just assuming they wont. So shush, wait for them to give more details.
They are not changed from TQ - therefore no hp buff. Basic logic.
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
second,
-- This is not the place to rant about nag, moros, and phoenix, test server feed back is in a different forum.
This is the place to raise the issues about all cap ships - take a look at the thread title.
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
4th
Hammer, you did a fairly good job of explaining everything, but when you answered many of the questions you left a lot more to be asked, you may want to make a long detailed dev blog about all the capital changes and why.
How do you consider a post without a single question answered explaining everything is beyond me.
Rest of pathetic DC skipped. There must be answers, or else people will just burn out and well, that means they won't give, to put it very mildly, a rat's tail about the game.
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Kushmir
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:44:00 -
[1511]
FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD IDEAS ABOUT 0.0 IS NOT A CRIME
this should also apply for more than just these changes
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Sajeera
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:45:00 -
[1512]
Originally by: KeratinBoy
What's odd about it is that the other thread only has 50 pages.
Many posts never made it to eve-search, and by "many" i don't mean 20 or 30...
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Aine Lagerange
Minmatar
The Executives
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:45:00 -
[1513]
At least we have shiny new planets, yeyyy!
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Klisejo
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:46:00 -
[1514]
I still want to know who is responsible for Nozh not knowing how target painters work. That is the real crime here.
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Elaron
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:50:00 -
[1515]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Hi, everyone
And again, a CCP representative talks only about the mothership rollback and does not appear to have listened to the Minmatar dreadnought pilots concerns about the Naglfar.
Why did CCP revert the bonus changes that were well received, a few scant months after they were made?
Why are CCP condemning pilots of the most skill-intensive Dreadnought to substandard bonuses and having to fit double the damage mods for the same benefits other Dreadnoughts can get?
Why are CCP being so silent on the matter, when it has been demonstrated that the same balancing could have been achieved by reducing the magnitude of the bonuses?
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lord cyrez
Caldari
Orbis Aeternitas
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:50:00 -
[1516]
Originally by: lord cyrez
first: i have to admit that i'm not too familiar with the recent turret/tracking formular changes - but my understanding is, that if the target does not move, the turrets sigresolution does not alter the equation, thus ships signature radius is no issue at all - as long as it doesnt move?
since no movement is the case for sieged dreads, the main target for other dreads, turrets presumably always hit for full damage?
anyway - i'm one of the shafted phoenix pilots, so i crunched the numbers for missiles.
-25% Signature Radius derived from a spec'd Claymore pilot.
-37.5% Signature Radius derived from a spec'd Ragnarok pilot.
Citadel Torpedo Explosion Radius: 2,250m
Ship/POSSigRadiusSig/ExpRadius-25% SIG-37.5% SIG
Revelation1700-24%-43%-53%
Phoenix1770-21%-41%-51%
Moros1740-23%-42%-52%
Naglfar1635-27%-45%-55%
Small POS1000-55%N/AN/A
Medium POS2000-11%N/AN/A
Large POS4000full dmgN/AN/A
Citadel Cruise Explosion Radius: 1,500m
Ship/POSSigRadiusSig/ExpRadius-25% SIG-37.5% SIG
Revelation1700full dmg-15%-29%
Phoenix1770full dmg-11%-26%
Moros1740full dmg-13%-27%
Naglfar1635full dmg-18%-32%
Small POS1000-33%N/AN/A
Medium POS2000full dmgN/AN/A
Large POS4000full dmgN/AN/A
so... shooting torps at any dread will net me -21% to -27% anyway?
a fifth to a quarter of my damage will *always* be lost?
and if the enemy fleet has some evasive maneuvers ganglink in it, maybe even on a non-minmatar command ship, i lose -41% to -45%?
a ragnarok doesnt show up that often, but might become flavored with this change, and would make things even worse. -51% to -55%. having any sig radius reduction going on within your enemy fleet encourages phoenix pilots to stay home and... dunno, spank NPCs.
if my assumption about turrets is true (sig radius irrelevant if target is stationary), theres no wonder why naglfar and phoenix pilots are checking in for the front row of your nerfbat roundhouse kick.
so... did you, nozh, or your associates, even run the numbers on this?
dreads shooting dreads while losing at least 20% damage anyway?
is this intended?
if yes: seriously... just reduce the torp base damage and adjust the explosion radius. easier calculations for the server, if you like torp users to be mitigated in damage anyway.
may i quote myself and add further data / questions?
with a pretty much standard-reduction of avg. 25% torp damage, is there any use left for them - except shooting motherships, since they rarely will be seen in dominion (no HP buff), and titans?
considering no dmg-skills/bonuses, just base attributes:
the "rajas citadel cruise missile" (kin) fields 1500 base damage.
the "rift citadel torpedo" (kin) fields 2000 base damage.
shooting at a...
...revelation with rajas cruise: 1500 effective dmg.
...revelation with rift torp: 1520 effective dmg. +1.3%
...phoenix with rajas cruise: 1500 effective dmg.
...phoenix with rift torp: 1580 effective dmg. +5.3%
...moros with rajas cruise: 1500 effective dmg.
...moros with rift torp: 1540 effective dmg. +2.6%
...naglfar with rajas cruise: 1500 effective dmg.
...naglfar with rift torp: 1460 effective dmg. -2.6%
and this is without your enemy bringing any signature-reducing bonus. which will probably be unlikely, since such a bonus will give a significant advantage over all phoenix- and naglfar-encounters and only requires a single ganglink, on any commandship or even battlecruiser.
TLDR: big wall of text + all those numbers = seems like citadel torps get REALLY useless now. pretty much every phoenix / naglfar pilot will fit cruise.
way to change citadel missiles. torps get useless, cruise replace them. the real deal: gotta train cruise 5 to have phoenixes and naglfars being useful at all.
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Dante Edmundo
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:51:00 -
[1517]
Edited by: Dante Edmundo on 20/11/2009 23:57:39
Hopefully Nozh will have the courage to make a short statement that will go something like this:
"Due to the overwhelming negative player feedback in regards to my recent decision to scrap the planned changes to the Dominion Mothership upgrade, and after some discussion with my peer co-developers and Abathur, who many of you kindly donated your free time to assist in many long months of testing and development on the Sisi test service - we at CCP have decided to move ahead with the original planned changes. We will continue to investigate further ways to improve the Motherships role and design in the near future. We apologize for providing such short notice and the dramatic nature of decisions being made toward the next expansion. We hope and strive to make Eve Online the best and most enjoyable space game available to you the players - the opinions of which we do value."
How about that response? I wonder if people would be happy if Nohz came out with something like that or similar? 
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Kieselguhr Kid
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:52:00 -
[1518]
Originally by: Ralph42nd
Edited by: Ralph42nd on 20/11/2009 23:49:33
Originally by: Klisejo
I still want to know who is responsible for Nozh not knowing how target painters work. That is the real crime here.
But ... but ... it was a team remember. So the WHOLE ****ing dev team doesn't know game mechanics.
Phew, and I thought only 1 person at CCP was an idiot.
POST 1376
I bet Abathur knows
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Shredded
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:52:00 -
[1519]
*Publicly states that the ability for a single player/small group of players to "insta-pop" hundreds to thousands of other players is a incredibly poor game design choice*
*Implements this ability, in the form of titans, anyway*
*Is CCP*
KEEP ON DELEEETIN'
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Jackson Brown
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:52:00 -
[1520]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
Everyone quiet and stop the hate for 5 mins
Lets review ----
motherships are not being changed they are going to be like tq motherships atm.
-- not mentioned, CCP never said they werent getting an hp buff, you all are just assuming they wont. So shush, wait for them to give more details.
second,
-- This is not the place to rant about nag, moros, and phoenix, test server feed back is in a different forum.
third
Nozh is a messenger, so that means he drew the short straw when or lost a bet to the rest of the staff about announcing the changes. Nozh thank you for taking it in stride, you deserve a beer, especially after all the crap we have put you through.
4th
Hammer, you did a fairly good job of explaining everything, but when you answered many of the questions you left a lot more to be asked, you may want to make a long detailed dev blog about all the capital changes and why.
5th,
everyone stop posting for a while, its friday, go get a beer, drink a little bit and relax, calm down and come back to the forums and make some intelligent post.
Everyone, just needs to relax seriously. Our testing was not in vain, we just showed to them there might be several balancing issues that could result.
We have learned though from press releases and articles that show how much players care about their game.
CCP devs, thank you for taking the hate storm in stride, you guys do put up with a lot. It's just going to take some time for the anger to calm down and we can get on with the release of dominion.
Once again everyone stop the hate, let the devs and gms spend time working on dominion rather than be forum police.
-OH
FREGE, lol.
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Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:54:00 -
[1521]
Originally by: Kieselguhr Kid
Originally by: Ralph42nd
Edited by: Ralph42nd on 20/11/2009 23:49:33
Originally by: Klisejo
I still want to know who is responsible for Nozh not knowing how target painters work. That is the real crime here.
But ... but ... it was a team remember. So the WHOLE ****ing dev team doesn't know game mechanics.
Phew, and I thought only 1 person at CCP was an idiot.
POST 1376
I bet Abathur knows
I think you might be right, is it too late to free Abathar?
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Andreas Kallesoee
Celestial Horizon Corp.
United Corporate Ventures
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:55:00 -
[1522]
Originally by: Ralph42nd
Edited by: Ralph42nd on 20/11/2009 23:49:33
Originally by: Klisejo
I still want to know who is responsible for Nozh not knowing how target painters work. That is the real crime here.
But ... but ... it was a team remember. So the WHOLE ****ing dev team doesn't know game mechanics.
Phew, and I thought only 1 person at CCP was an idiot.
POST 1376
Calling someone an idiot is not helping... i know you are mad but breath in breath out
Okay so CCP is not happy with the way the super caps weigh in compared to the normal caps.
So simpel solution.... remove them from the game? compensate the players that have them by parking them in a station of their choise with all the capital compnants of the ship so they dont loose anything.
If this idea is to radical, DROP the changes for now, stop think act. And please do a dev blog that tries to awnser some of the questions raised and please work on the PR side of thinks you can get a lot better at it if you try.
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Lord Helghast
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:55:00 -
[1523]
Where is CCP Abathur ?
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Mihali
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:55:00 -
[1524]
Lo & behold brothers & sisters
The EvE gate today opened it's gaping maw & sprang the collective consciousness of the community. It shouted out loud, From this day forth that nerfing shall now be called "nozhd" & calling people not knowing simple game mechanics a "nohzhead"
To CCP: This guy is your Head Game Designer?
Stop messing with my slack, pinko. Praise Bob! |
Zedone
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:56:00 -
[1525]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Please remember that we are here to make a game that you all love to play. None of us comes to work thinking of ways to enrage the playerbase.
First, thanks for the post.
2nd. You say you want to make the game fun for everyone, yet you are literally castrating the current titan pilots ingame (along with the rest of the capital ships). most who have been with u guys for 4+ years now (6+! years in my case )
Not a single response was given to us in the test server feedback titan thread while we desperately tried to get u guys to reconsider the outrageous nerf on us. Is this really the direction you want to take with the titan? Even if all the titan pilots are against it?
I don't really need to comment on the other capital ships obviously, as there are more than enough ppl here that have voiced their dislikes of your nerf bat u like to call balance.
Make the game FUN. not stale.
Click on my profile and read my other posts Hammer. It would make me happy if I knew that you really were listening..
___________________
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Strabo44
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:58:00 -
[1526]
Originally by: lord cyrez
Originally by: lord cyrez
first: i have to admit that i'm not too familiar with the recent turret/tracking formular changes - but my understanding is, that if the target does not move, the turrets sigresolution does not alter the equation, thus ships signature radius is no issue at all - as long as it doesnt move?
since no movement is the case for sieged dreads, the main target for other dreads, turrets presumably always hit for full damage?
anyway - i'm one of the shafted phoenix pilots, so i crunched the numbers for missiles.
-25% Signature Radius derived from a spec'd Claymore pilot.
-37.5% Signature Radius derived from a spec'd Ragnarok pilot.
Citadel Torpedo Explosion Radius: 2,250m
Ship/POSSigRadiusSig/ExpRadius-25% SIG-37.5% SIG
Revelation1700-24%-43%-53%
Phoenix1770-21%-41%-51%
Moros1740-23%-42%-52%
Naglfar1635-27%-45%-55%
Small POS1000-55%N/AN/A
Medium POS2000-11%N/AN/A
Large POS4000full dmgN/AN/A
Citadel Cruise Explosion Radius: 1,500m
Ship/POSSigRadiusSig/ExpRadius-25% SIG-37.5% SIG
Revelation1700full dmg-15%-29%
Phoenix1770full dmg-11%-26%
Moros1740full dmg-13%-27%
Naglfar1635full dmg-18%-32%
Small POS1000-33%N/AN/A
Medium POS2000full dmgN/AN/A
Large POS4000full dmgN/AN/A
so... shooting torps at any dread will net me -21% to -27% anyway?
a fifth to a quarter of my damage will *always* be lost?
and if the enemy fleet has some evasive maneuvers ganglink in it, maybe even on a non-minmatar command ship, i lose -41% to -45%?
a ragnarok doesnt show up that often, but might become flavored with this change, and would make things even worse. -51% to -55%. having any sig radius reduction going on within your enemy fleet encourages phoenix pilots to stay home and... dunno, spank NPCs.
if my assumption about turrets is true (sig radius irrelevant if target is stationary), theres no wonder why naglfar and phoenix pilots are checking in for the front row of your nerfbat roundhouse kick.
so... did you, nozh, or your associates, even run the numbers on this?
dreads shooting dreads while losing at least 20% damage anyway?
is this intended?
if yes: seriously... just reduce the torp base damage and adjust the explosion radius. easier calculations for the server, if you like torp users to be mitigated in damage anyway.
may i quote myself and add further data / questions?
with a pretty much standard-reduction of avg. 25% torp damage, is there any use left for them - except shooting motherships, since they rarely will be seen in dominion (no HP buff), and titans?
considering no dmg-skills/bonuses, just base attributes:
the "rajas citadel cruise missile" (kin) fields 1500 base damage.
the "rift citadel torpedo" (kin) fields 2000 base damage.
shooting at a...
...revelation with rajas cruise: 1500 effective dmg.
...revelation with rift torp: 1520 effective dmg. +1.3%
...phoenix with rajas cruise: 1500 effective dmg.
...phoenix with rift torp: 1580 effective dmg. +5.3%
...moros with rajas cruise: 1500 effective dmg.
...moros with rift torp: 1540 effective dmg. +2.6%
...naglfar with rajas cruise: 1500 effective dmg.
...naglfar with rift torp: 1460 effective dmg. -2.6%
and this is without your enemy bringing any signature-reducing bonus. which will probably be unlikely, since such a bonus will give a significant advantage over all phoenix- and naglfar-encounters and only requires a single ganglink, on any commandship or even battlecruiser.
TLDR: big wall of text + all those numbers = seems like citadel torps get REALLY useless now. pretty much every phoenix / naglfar pilot will fit cruise.
way to change citadel missiles. torps get useless, cruise replace them. the real deal: gotta train cruise 5 to have phoenixes and naglfars being useful at all.
Jesus christ I knew it was bad but I had no idea it was this terrible. Consider my accounts canceled.
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The Mittani
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:58:00 -
[1527]
Edited by: The Mittani on 21/11/2009 00:01:01
Hammerhead:
If CCP Nozh is not to blame for this, are you implying that your entire dev team on the capital ships issue does not understand the irrelevance of target painters, or the range at which capital fights actually happen on Tranquility?
If your entire team shares the glaring misconceptions about the game which Nozh's blog demonstrated, things are very bad indeed for the playerbase.
1367, fyi.
Sins of a Solar Spymaster: my ~fair and balanced~ column
TheMittani @ Twitter
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Isil Rahsen
Gallente
Ferrum Superum
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:59:00 -
[1528]
Edited by: Isil Rahsen on 20/11/2009 23:59:24
Delete it again and I'll just post it again CCP. Censorship won't make it go away.
Originally by: Isil Rahsen
I am going to post this on every page til I get an answer.
Originally by: Isil Rahsen
OK then CCP Hammerhead, I would like your *teams* decision making process on returning the Naglfar to a useless split weaponed piece of crap after only one patch cycle of being fixed? Why could the bonuses have not been adjusted but LEFT ON THE GUNS? I'm really trying to understand the rationale here when even CCP have admitted split weapons systems are fail hence the change to the Nag to double gun bonuses in the first place.
Post [1368]
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fuze
Gallente
Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2009.11.20 23:59:00 -
[1529]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Instead, they started to blur with dreads and carriers.
Mom roles were unclear from the start. People have been indicating for two years now.
It's better to have them blur in that make them obsolete
But I start asking myself why I even bother anymore. You don't seem to listen to your customers after all.
Originally by: The Mittani
Where's the excellence?
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KeratinBoy
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 00:01:00 -
[1530]
Edited by: KeratinBoy on 21/11/2009 00:02:54
If you want us to stop pointing out you are deleting lots of posts, stop deleting lots of posts. Especially my posts. My posts are great, long live my posts. (On eve-search)
1370 p46 or like 82 on eve-search but not really considering the link went down for some reason and at least 6 pages got nuked during that time.
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Frogman Henry
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.11.21 00:03:00 -
[1531]
BS filter module activated. Scan post 1267
Originally by: CCP Hammer
No, guys, guys! This excuse we came up with after 70 pages (25 of them deleted) is legit! It totally didn't take us this long to formulate because we were in "oh ****, what do we do now" damage control mode. The train-wreck of a sov patch we are working on is well thought out and solid as a rock too, I swear to God! Also CCP Nozh is not at all a phantom dev account that we use to dodge responsibility. Yeah, that dude in the video is really a dev, not at all a friend of some of us from Reykjavik.
Excellence is the watchword, friends. Keep on sending us your money now, you hear? And next time you consider voicing your opinion, do us all at CCP a favor and shut the hell up!
Thanks for listening
CCP Hammerhead
Lead Game Designer
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King Krimson
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Posted - 2009.11.21 00:07:00 -
[1532]
the ninja edits are strong in this one..
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Balder Con
Caldari
The Maverick Navy
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.21 00:07:00 -
[1533]
so i just instalt the last sisi patch it looks good atm
Gallente Carrier Skill Bonuses:
50% bonus to Capital Shield and Armor transfer range per level
5% bonus to deployed FightersÆ damage per level
99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules
Can fit Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration modules
Can fit Clone Vat Bay
Can fit Projected Electronic Counter Measures
Can deploy 3 additional Fighters per level
Can fit 1 additional Warfare Link module per level
200% bonus to Fighter control range
Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare
armor 1575000 hp
can use max of 20 normal drones and 20 feighters
and 15 FB's
feighters 25 Mbit/sec
FB's 500 Mbit/sec
11.25 ly
Can fit Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration modules mabe take it out i dont know but i like this is the a new test run or just a rong patch whats the deal ??
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.11.21 00:08:00 -
[1534]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
First, IÆd like to say that a single developer cannot come in and unilaterally change everything with no oversight. People are spewing a lot of hate at CCP Nozh but instead itÆs a case of shooting the messenger. He is just doing his job trying to improve the game and explain the reasoning for why changes were made.
If you don't want us to shoot your messenger, here's an idea: don't pick a messenger who is so hilariously clueless about the subject that he makes stupid posts about things like target painting capital ships or fitting 5x DCUs on motherships.
Quote:
We werenÆt entirely happy with the direction and balancing of MOMs before development of Dominion began. Even during the SISI tests they still werenÆt falling into place for us. They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0. So we tried to tune them again to a point we felt was balanced, but then the role of the ships wasnÆt clear once we started to lower the damage. Instead, they started to blur with dreads and carriers.
See, now was that hard? Was there some reason that you could not have said this from the beginning?
Also, the idea that the earlier changes were only good for a small minority is just silly. Look at the people posting here. Notice that you have a pretty good selection of 0.0 alliances, including hated enemies agreeing on what direction things should go. This is not just a few mothership pilots looking for their new "I win" button, this is near-unanimous agreement between the people who actually play the game in 0.0 about how 0.0 should be.
And besides that, I fail to see how the mothership changes would lead to insta-popping. Are you familiar with the stats on fighter bombers, especially the low precision of their missiles? Against everything but capital ships, mothership performance would remain exactly the same, and even against capital ships, their damage output is merely better than dreads (as appropriate for a 15 billion ISK ship), not enough to insta-kill capitals.
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FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
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Darth Sith
Genbuku.
Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.11.21 00:11:00 -
[1535]
Edited by: Darth Sith on 21/11/2009 00:15:43
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Hi, everyone
We have been carefully watching this thread and I want to set the record straight on a few misconceptions.
First, IÆd like to say that a single developer cannot come in and unilaterally change everything with no oversight. People are spewing a lot of hate at CCP Nozh but instead itÆs a case of shooting the messenger. He is just doing his job trying to improve the game and explain the reasoning for why changes were made. We work as a team and agree on the direction things are taking. We want the game to be balanced and fun for everyone to play. We also think about the future of the game and how it will be in years to come after our changes weighing the medium- and long-term repercussions.
We werenÆt entirely happy with the direction and balancing of MOMs before development of Dominion began. Even during the SISI tests they still werenÆt falling into place for us. They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0. So we tried to tune them again to a point we felt was balanced, but then the role of the ships wasnÆt clear once we started to lower the damage. Instead, they started to blur with dreads and carriers.
You all made your voices clear with important feedback, we listened and reverted things back to like they are on TQ while we take more time to reassess. We could have tried to put out ôsomethingö just because we have been talking about it, but then we would be in a situation where players are getting into ships that might very well change again in a coming patch. Given the amount of work to get one of these we just didnÆt feel that was the right thing to do.
stuff...
CCP Hammerhead
Lead Game Designer
I interpret this as a team failure then since Dominion is turning into the biggest bucket of weak sauce in Eve history.
Ambulation ... nah .. CCP went back to the drawing board on that one
Supercaps .. lets take the doomsday away from titans, completely failboat on MS changes but wait .. we have capital cruise now!
Sov .. let ditch sov and more bits to have to shoot over and over .. but fear not .. alliances will have to consolidate due to cost .. scratch that .. costs have been reduced due to complaints from big alliances
T3 frigs .. nope no word on that yet
new ship classes ... nope.. spent the time on buffing faction ships.
new game content ... whoop .. a faction epic arc .. how many people actually played the others ?
Result .. threadnaught with 46 pages of flame ..
I think the message is loud and clear that Dominion is a letdown before it is even released. I can't remember being so unthrilled about an expansion in m 5 years of Eve life ..
If I make it onto the CSM, I cannot wait for my first conversation with the Devs.
Darth for CSM
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Isil Rahsen
Gallente
Ferrum Superum
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Posted - 2009.11.21 00:11:00 -
[1536]
Edited by: Isil Rahsen on 21/11/2009 00:13:20
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: CCP Hammer
First, IÆd like to say that a single developer cannot come in and unilaterally change everything with no oversight. People are spewing a lot of hate at CCP Nozh but instead itÆs a case of shooting the messenger. He is just doing his job trying to improve the game and explain the reasoning for why changes were made.
If you don't want us to shoot your messenger, here's an idea: don't pick a messenger who is so hilariously clueless about the subject that he makes stupid posts about things like target painting capital ships or fitting 5x DCUs on motherships.
Quote:
We werenÆt entirely happy with the direction and balancing of MOMs before development of Dominion began. Even during the SISI tests they still werenÆt falling into place for us. They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0. So we tried to tune them again to a point we felt was balanced, but then the role of the ships wasnÆt clear once we started to lower the damage. Instead, they started to blur with dreads and carriers.
See, now was that hard? Was there some reason that you could not have said this from the beginning?
Also, the idea that the earlier changes were only good for a small minority is just silly. Look at the people posting here. Notice that you have a pretty good selection of 0.0 alliances, including hated enemies agreeing on what direction things should go. This is not just a few mothership pilots looking for their new "I win" button, this is near-unanimous agreement between the people who actually play the game in 0.0 about how 0.0 should be.
And besides that, I fail to see how the mothership changes would lead to insta-popping. Are you familiar with the stats on fighter bombers, especially the low precision of their missiles? Against everything but capital ships, mothership performance would remain exactly the same, and even against capital ships, their damage output is merely better than dreads (as appropriate for a 15 billion ISK ship), not enough to insta-kill capitals.
Good job pointing out the fallacies of this whole mess. Prepare to have your posts deleted like the rest of us.
Post [1372]
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Jas Dor
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.21 00:11:00 -
[1537]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
We werenÆt entirely happy with the direction and balancing of MOMs before development of Dominion began. Even during the SISI tests they still werenÆt falling into place for us. They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0. So we tried to tune them again to a point we felt was balanced, but then the role of the ships wasnÆt clear once we started to lower the damage. Instead, they started to blur with dreads and carriers.
Well I wish you'd thought of this year ago with the doomsday device. Who exactly are you contending would get instapopped and in what ship types?
Quote:
The other misconception I want to address is about our public test server. SISI is there so we can have as many people as possible looking for bugs. We think it best to put things out in the public as soon as possible regardless of whether or not itÆs final so we get more eyes on it. This just makes sense to us from a QA standpoint because EVE is an extremely complex piece of software. SISI isnÆt really meant to be a place to try new fittings, do FFA battles or preview upcoming features, although we know people use it for that and we really donÆt mind because more load on our test server helps us find bugs. ItÆs also not a guarantee as to what will be in the next expansion. There have been plenty of times when we dropped a feature that was partially complete on SISI. Arenas and storefronts are two recent examples. ItÆs highly probable that we like pulling features from a release even less than you do but sometimes it cannot be helped. So while supercarriers were on the test server and had gone through plenty of testing it still wasnÆt guaranteed to end up on TQ in that exact state. Only what lands on TQ on patch day is guaranteed.
So in other words players out in 0.0 can't possibly comprehend the complexities of fights in 0.0 and could never, collectively and almost unanimously, come to a conclusion that a feature would be a good idea. Seriously, my only concern with supercarriers would be making fighter bombers non assignable so that the mothership needs to remain on the field.
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Moctobot
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.21 00:11:00 -
[1538]
Edited by: Moctobot on 21/11/2009 00:13:27
c.c.p. = censor contrarian posters ??
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Zin Zhou
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.21 00:14:00 -
[1539]
Edited by: Zin Zhou on 21/11/2009 00:14:48
Guyth lets not blame nozh, lets blame the entirety of CCP. Hammerhead says he too is complicit. Course, we didn't need to know that. Since they implicated themselves with this whole PR debacle.
1375, and counting
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Clerence Thomas
Gallente
Black Lotus Heavy Industries
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.11.21 00:15:00 -
[1540]
Cool. The Stupid(tm) for the motherships has been pushed back.
--
"There are over 500 million fire arms in worldwide circulation. That is one fire arm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is... How do we arm the other eleven?"
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Rewt ed
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Posted - 2009.11.21 00:17:00 -
[1541]
will be interesting to see what happens dec 1st. I guess after the initial download we can see how much the online player # changes.
hopefully ccp can inspire us with something half decent, but i'm not holding my breath.
irreversible PR damage caused by inability to communicate effectively then mass censorship.
1377
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ztrsfjgkc
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Posted - 2009.11.21 00:17:00 -
[1542]
PLZ stop s**t posting and crying in here like a little child which got a new toy to play with and get told after 1 hour playing to never see it again! Stay constructive plz!
1st
With the change to the Titan super pwng gun u have to do somethink with momy¦s thats right maybe give them atleast 4-6 mil more ehp so they wont get volleyed by only 2 titans which is for the most large ally¦s easy to field.
2nd
Give the citadel cruise missls some more love and don¦t make the phoenix absolutly useless and maybe make it possible that those will be able with lvl 4 skills to fly 250 km with some decent speed wich will effect the Naglfar aswell because of the new splitted (old) dmg boni.
MY 2cents
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T'Karr
Minmatar
Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2009.11.21 00:20:00 -
[1543]
we arnt going to be happy unless the moms. nag. cit torps are sorted.
CCP we reely dont care about if the patch comes out Dec 1st....... just dont make us wait another 6 months PLEASE. Just take your time, finish the MOMs, STOP NERFING THE NAG, and bring out a great expansion, we dont care about deadlines. Just get it done, harden the fridge up.
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Isil Rahsen
Gallente
Ferrum Superum
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Posted - 2009.11.21 00:21:00 -
[1544]
Edited by: Isil Rahsen on 21/11/2009 00:24:12
Twice deleted and twice post again CCP. Censorship won't make it go away.
Originally by: Isil Rahsen
I am going to post this on every page til I get an answer.
Originally by: Isil Rahsen
OK then CCP Hammerhead, I would like your *teams* decision making process on returning the Naglfar to a useless split weaponed piece of crap after only one patch cycle of being fixed? Why could the bonuses have not been adjusted but LEFT ON THE GUNS? I'm really trying to understand the rationale here when even CCP have admitted split weapons systems are fail hence the change to the Nag to double gun bonuses in the first place.
Post [1368] again. Atleast 172 posts deleted so far according to eve-search.
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Frogman Henry
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.11.21 00:24:00 -
[1545]
Sincere question, why was this post removed? The only HONEST explanation there could be is that it publically recognizes your pathetic, heavy handed modding, and suggests to others that they number their posts.
Originally by: Frogman Henry
Post 1219
Start numbering your posts so you can see how many they are redacting.
On topic so you cannot "disappear" my post.
Dearest CCP please reconsider the changes made in that dev-post, they disregard much thoughtful design and feedback. Please fess up to why you are considering doing this.
Grovelingly yours,
Some Guy
This was post 1219 in the thread when I made it. It is post 1327 in eve-search. How many of the 107, at least, other posts you deleted were equally innocuous and did not violate any posting guidelines? I believe when people started numbering their posts to very visibly point out your silencing of customer opinion was when you first started composing a response, not before. |
KeratinBoy
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.21 00:25:00 -
[1546]
Edited by: KeratinBoy on 21/11/2009 00:25:45
Originally by: Isil Rahsen
Edited by: Isil Rahsen on 21/11/2009 00:24:12
Twice deleted and twice post again CCP. Censorship won't make it go away.
Originally by: Isil Rahsen
I am going to post this on every page til I get an answer.
Originally by: Isil Rahsen
OK then CCP Hammerhead, I would like your *teams* decision making process on returning the Naglfar to a useless split weaponed piece of crap after only one patch cycle of being fixed? Why could the bonuses have not been adjusted but LEFT ON THE GUNS? I'm really trying to understand the rationale here when even CCP have admitted split weapons systems are fail hence the change to the Nag to double gun bonuses in the first place.
Post [1368] again. Atleast 172 posts deleted so far according to eve-search.
Post deletion solidarity Reg.
1370, p46.
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Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.21 00:26:00 -
[1547]
ccp, cant you see, this was caused by overmoderation
delete one, we post three more accounts confirming cancellation
we consort, you retort with a post of poorest fabrication
words and graphs that defy explanation
if you want to save capitals, simply ask sleene to do it
he was the one closest to it
and this other team totally blew it
players quit, dev teams split over this type of exacerbation
believe me, don't you see what happened to SOE
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Kismeteer
BGG
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Posted - 2009.11.21 00:28:00 -
[1548]
Let's find a solution to these problems, people.
Rather than scrapping everything, why not release some of the things as originally designed, and if they do turn out to be a bad idea, tune them or roll them back. Some ideas:- Let the AF buff get released, and if it's abused or overpowered, then tune it afterward.
- Give the Naglfar it's buff and give it a real shield tank. If it's too powerful, scale it back.
- Let Motherships bomb the crap out of all caps for a bit with it's fighter bomber idea. It has merit. If it is too powerful, scale back the fighter bombers or up the sig radius or slow down speed of the explosion. Or maybe have fighter bombers ignore sig radius increases like target painters if people are using motherships to pop HAC fleets.
- Maybe allow the torp/cruise missile idea to go out, and later allow target painters to paint all targets. If it's a large target like a mothership, sieged dread, or a pos or pos module, let it be target painted and get even bigger. It won't affect non-cap players either way.
- Let the new 0.0 design go out, and if people are not as interested as you hope in 0.0, tune the idea and extend the exception period until you're happy with the population.
- Stop deleting negative posts and start to address them. Suppressing your user base does not make them happier or hide the problem properly. I would hope we could discuss our differences instead of declaring war on each other.
Hopefully, the players can post more constructive criticism instead of just catch phrases and useless posts, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
--
Kismeteer, carebear extraordinaire
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Serena Ku
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.21 00:31:00 -
[1549]
The current sisi Motherships are acceptable, please at least apply that into Dominion and tweak afterwards.
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Sentinel Eeex
Caldari
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.21 00:32:00 -
[1550]
Ok, I understand CCP is a modern company, and they will employ people with mental disabilities.
But did you really have to make them forum moderators?
What your moderators are doing right now is going to hurt your game (and perception of you as a company) more than all the ****ty (or lack of) changes in Dominion.
Will you ever learn?
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Spifflonius
BoB Enterprises
Veni Vidi Vici
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Posted - 2009.11.21 00:33:00 -
[1551]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
stuff...
Thanks for listening
CCP Hammerhead
Lead Game Designer
I'm happy to listen. I hope you guys at CCP are listening as well but it does not seem that this is the case.
I don't think the real issue is reverting motherships. The real issue is the other changes. The capital missle system changes for example. The way you guys at CCP have gone about telling us stuff gives everyone the impression you do not understand your own game mechanics. The fact that target painters where even mentioned in the same sentence as a Capital weapon system that is designed entirely to shoot things that are immune to target painters is completely poor to mention. The same dev blog tells us the idea is to not be able to shoot sub-capital ships. Thus any talk of target painters at all is really not relevant. What it did do though, was give us as the players the idea that you at CCP have been balancing capital weapon systems based on what a target painter gives.
More issues are the claim that projectiles capital weapon systems are ok as an inferior weapon system because they do not use capacitor. What it failed to mention was that it is not the only system that does not use capacitor. What this is giving the player base is the idea that you do not know what your own game mechanics do.
Thats just the dev blog.. What makes things even worse is that everything said afterwards (or beforehand for that matter) seems to not match up. It is hard to work out what you guys are actually trying to portrait since what you guys say keeps changing.
This is compounded by the lack of answering key questions brought up by the player base. You are giving the impression that you do not care and that is why people are getting upset. That and there is posts here there and everywhere with CCP dev's making almost provocative posts. That doesn't help the player base not be upset about things that are affecting them and their hours and years of work.
The way CCP is going about things needs to be looked at and probably changed. Try being more professional. You guys claimed at fanfest you want excellence. What I want as a player is for you guys to deliver that excellence you said you would provide.
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Kuar Z'thain
Fraser's Finest
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Posted - 2009.11.21 00:36:00 -
[1552]
Quote:
Deleting posts is non-constructive
Disagreement is constructive
You can have a discussion or you can have censorship, they are mutually exclusive.
Keep deleting posts. It makes you look in control.
Better ban me next time instead of just deleting this post. Again.
Free Abathur |
Isil Rahsen
Gallente
Ferrum Superum
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Posted - 2009.11.21 00:54:00 -
[1553]
Originally by: Sardonis Tel'Arakus
Hey, how do I go about getting a refund? I reactivated a 6 month sub solely for dominion, and you're undoing what I reactivated for. Choose your next words carefully.
They won't care and won't give you your money back. Pray that Dom 1.1 has the feature you were looking for in it but I wouldn't count on it with the way things are being handled.
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scrapironfish
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.21 00:55:00 -
[1554]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Hi, everyone
People are spewing a lot of hate at CCP Nozh but instead itÆs a case of shooting the messenger.
It's not "shoot the messenger" when the messenger cant even messenge.
Where is CCP Nozh anyway...
Oh he's shackled in the basement with nothing but a feeding tube and a poopsock playing EVE online non stop since this blog was posted so he can learn what a cap ship looks like and maybe even learn some basics on how they work. <-- best run on sentence ever.
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Isil Rahsen
Gallente
Ferrum Superum
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Posted - 2009.11.21 00:59:00 -
[1555]
Edited by: Isil Rahsen on 21/11/2009 01:00:44
Thrice deleted and thrice post again CCP. Censorship won't make it go away.
Originally by: Isil Rahsen
I am going to post this on every page til I get an answer.
OK then CCP Hammerhead, I would like your *teams* decision making process on returning the Naglfar to a useless split weaponed piece of crap after only one patch cycle of being fixed? Why could the bonuses have not been adjusted but LEFT ON THE GUNS? I'm really trying to understand the rationale here when even CCP have admitted split weapons systems are fail hence the change to the Nag to double gun bonuses in the first place.
Post [1368] again. Atleast 176 posts deleted so far according to eve-search.
Post [1383] Free Abathur
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Jackson Brown
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:03:00 -
[1556]
Originally by: Isil Rahsen
Edited by: Isil Rahsen on 21/11/2009 01:00:44
Thrice deleted and thrice post again CCP. Censorship won't make it go away.
Originally by: Isil Rahsen
I am going to post this on every page til I get an answer.
OK then CCP Hammerhead, I would like your *teams* decision making process on returning the Naglfar to a useless split weaponed piece of crap after only one patch cycle of being fixed? Why could the bonuses have not been adjusted but LEFT ON THE GUNS? I'm really trying to understand the rationale here when even CCP have admitted split weapons systems are fail hence the change to the Nag to double gun bonuses in the first place.
Post [1368] again. Atleast 176 posts deleted so far according to eve-search.
Post [1383] Free Abathur
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Trent Nichols
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:04:00 -
[1557]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Hi, everyone
I still don't get it.
Thanks for listening
CCP Hammerhead
Lead Game Designer
Ah... Lead game developer. So your the one who is at fault then. Not that it excuses Nozh's lack of knowledge of capitals and 0.0 combat. You should have never had him write that blog if you didn't want us going off on him.
We made our voices clear did we? You still aren't hearing us. We were happy with motherships as they were on singularity. I don't recall a great amount of excitement over arenas and storefronts.
Yes those ships would be very powerful but they are also very expensive. Your players felt that was a fair balance of risk and reward. We explained in multiple threads and many posts why we liked it and why it would work.
You on the other hand have not given any explanation beyond a vauge "potentially too powerful" Given that you had someone with as little experience with capitals as Nozh addressing us leads me to think your own experience might be lacking as well. Have you even considered that your players might be right and you might be wrong?
Making a game we all love to play means sometimes actually listening to us all, then swallowing your pride and doing what will make eve thrive.
Colonies and Capitals |
stockeater
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:08:00 -
[1558]
As a moros pilot I'm kinda glad that supercarriers won't be all powerful dread killers yet, and quite happy to hear tracking is better in siege mode. Now I might just be able to hit a sniper bs in siege.
Just worried what use my nearly 2 bill ship will have- unless the sov bunkers are ridiculously hard I get the feeling that dreads are a ship class that will die out.
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Ralph42nd
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:09:00 -
[1559]
Edited by: Ralph42nd on 21/11/2009 01:10:00
You know it has been said many times since your "update", why not roll out the changes we have been promised and tweak from there. Historically you haven't done this? Remote DD anyone?
Roll out the changes you have promised, if it breaks the game fix it afterwards (like you have always done in the past). Or you could just keep ignoring and deleting us, failing to delivery what you promised, blemish your own good name, sully your reputation, earn the ire of hundreds and thousands of your customers, and millions viewing this debacle on the internet. Ultimately doing what it is you have always done, extending your middle finger to those who you claim matter most to you, your customers.
We tried to give you reason, we tried to give you the benefit of the doubt and you have consistently failed to deliver on your end. Your game continues to be shoddy and bug ridden, performance impaired and lousy by most acceptable standards.
You view your end-game content as a burden, and those who play it to be expendable. You are willing to lie to your customers to attempt to save face and only make matters worse for yourselves. You claim that you have learned over the years and at the first opportunity to show us how much you have grown over the years you reverted immediately to your past failed ways.
This NGE patch was once looked at by the populace of Eve Online to be the great savior of a dying game. A last cling to hope that maybe the game will be fun and exciting again, and in jest it is not. It will be an incomplete, half assed patch.
Quote:
MMORPG.com:
What are three parts to Dominion you are most proud of?
Noah Ward:
Visually the planets are just amazing. The landscape of EVE will be drastically improved when they come in. As the planets started showing up in space on the internal dev server the buzz around the office was overwhelming. There were e-mail threads with screenshots and subject titles like "HAVE YOU SEEN THIS? NEW PLANETS!" So that's one thing we're really proud of.
If this is the only thing we have to look forward to after months of trumpeting Dominion as the baby jesus of eve online, then you sir have failed us. You have failed yourself, your company and your customers new and old.
I cannot convey any further in polite terms just how sickening this entire situation has been to view as a customer. CCP Nozh, I would like to apologize to you for some of the hurtful things I may have (or may not have, syke, it was all deleted anyway) said about you. You truly do not deserve your job as a developer, however you would have been fired at greater companies. Companies with a future would not have backed you up, they would have packed you up and sent you out the door. Since the company that currently employs you has clearly no regard for it's potential future, you deserve your place at that failed company.
CCP Hammerhead, I said some pretty mean things to you and took them back when I heard you were a pretty chill dude. Turns out I was right in the first place, you too are deserving of your place at a failing company. Your attempt at damage control would be a failure if published by an elementary school news paper. You are passionate to be surrounded by people who have clearly no knowledge of what they are working on, and are willing to publish a post saying as much.
We have gone through the effort in the past two days to illustrate to you just what we actually want done with the changes you feel we don't like (by proxy, your not happy with them). You have refused to listen. You have deleted hundreds of posts saying exactly in one united voice what we have wanted.
Thank you for not listening. Thank you for making Dominion EVE's NGE.
POST 1387 PAGE 47 (not that it is going to stay this way)
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slothe
Caldari
Reikoku
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:11:00 -
[1560]
please just make sure you do remove the AOE weapon from the titans
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Isil Rahsen
Gallente
Ferrum Superum
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:12:00 -
[1561]
Edited by: Isil Rahsen on 21/11/2009 01:12:57
Originally by: stockeater
As a moros pilot I'm kinda glad that supercarriers won't be all powerful dread killers yet, and quite happy to hear tracking is better in siege mode. Now I might just be able to hit a sniper bs in siege.
Just worried what use my nearly 2 bill ship will have- unless the sov bunkers are ridiculously hard I get the feeling that dreads are a ship class that will die out.
I'm really beginning to think that this is the point of the Dread changes. All but the Rev will be receiving a serious nerf in one form or another and any dissenting opinions immediately get quelled by post deletion or purely ignoring all posts relating to them. So far 5 of my posts dissenting over capital weapons and the Naglfar nerf imparticular have all been deleted.
Post [1389] Free Abathur
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William Pierce
Caldari
Universal Army
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:18:00 -
[1562]
Edited by: William Pierce on 21/11/2009 01:20:14
Quote:
which means target painters will have to be utilized in many situations to achieve full damage potential.
Nozh, you are so ****ing dumb it makes me want to kill myself. DREADS IN SIEGE AND POS STRUCTURES ARE IMMUNE TO TARGET PAINTERS!
Also, TITANS CAN NOW KILL MOTHERSHIPS IN 1 SHOT. THAT IS 15 BIL DESTROYED IN THE CLICK OF A BUTTON!
CCP, get your heads out of your collective asses!
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iP0D
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:19:00 -
[1563]
Edited by: iP0D on 21/11/2009 01:21:10
Edited by: iP0D on 21/11/2009 01:18:57
[1391]
EVE has seen its share of emo threads and drama, especially in times of change. But I have to admit that these circumstances are rather easy to understand to cause concern. After all, it is not just the hard nurtured stakeholder relationship for the topics of changes that is at stake, but the very functioning of CCP's adoption of SCRUM for future ventures.
Got to say, the moderation has reached a point where it is akin to shooting yourself in the foot. I know that probably by tomorrow or the day after we will start to see the magic unstickying and quite possibly the moving back and forth of the thread to a secluded section of the forums to crack down on visibility and thus exposure, but my god, seriously guys ... there is a real tangible point where matters become counterproductive.
I'm not referring to the silly posts, or those made in frustration. But to the multitude of constructive posts deleted. I for example do not understand how a post containing a highly complex effort to replicate XL turret scenarios warrants deletion. Or a post highlighting Sprint interactions in light of developer statements. Is it maybe time to take a step back?
Changing capital and supercapital ship roles was a very complicated and long process, a lot of communicative effort went in to it from all sides, not to mention the willingness of players to take changes at face value for the betterment of an EVE that had grown stale and frustrating.
But instead of the oh so hard achieved changes, we are left with a kneejerk crackdown of processes which effectively throws (once more) trust and results out of the window.
Of all possible courses of actions, you have picked the worst possible actions. Even if an entire developer team suddenly, after those claimed 18 months of developments, decides to be unhappy, it still has to deal with stakeholder churns. Especially in the light of deadlines it is far, far easier and far more productive and rewarding to commercial interests to take things one step at a time without kneejerking and breaking the curve.
Honest point to point and relentless communication, similar to what has taken place these past few months in focus of the announced and planned changes, is the only way to avoid setting yet another precedent of, I hate to use the word, failure - or even the perception thereof.
This is not the time to fall back into the kneejerking of the past. The effort has paid off. And even if in some places things run into the potential of player driven excess, it remains more productive and easier to monitor and tweak during the evolution of the game as it happens.
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Stratio
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:19:00 -
[1564]
47 pages of replies in just over 24h, I think that says a lot about the strength of feeling.
Also, we really need a way to find out which of the 47 pages contains dev responses. Would it not be possible to colour code the page links along the top?
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For Tribe and Honour! |
Random Womble
Minmatar
Emo Rangers
Electric Monkey Overlords
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:19:00 -
[1565]
SiSi may be a testing bed and nothing is final but when you have been testing with the players and informing them of your changes so they can actually help out then suddenly go make a ton of major changes without even mentioning them just seeming to hope they wont be noticed you are bound to cause issues. As others have said you have still not addressed the concerns with nag/phoenix and saying that nozh is the messenger for a larger bunch of people is hardly going to fill us with confidence when you see some of the contradictory remarks he has made and the ones which also either dont make sense or actually are just plain wrong.
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John MacCoy
Amarr
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:20:00 -
[1566]
Edited by: John MacCoy on 21/11/2009 01:19:58
Okay, here one very simple question that needing answered:
WILL CCP ALEAST GIVE A MOTHERSHIP A HP BUFF SO IT CAN SURVIVE THE NEW TITAN DD?
Thats the only question I want answered right now. One simple question. It's not hard.
Page 47
Post 1394
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It's a Trap! |
Dante Edmundo
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:21:00 -
[1567]
Edited by: Dante Edmundo on 21/11/2009 01:24:23
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Hi, everyone
We have been carefully watching this thread and I want to set the record straight on a few misconceptions.
........
You all made your voices clear with important feedback, we listened and reverted things back to like they are on TQ while we take more time to reassess. We could have tried to put out ôsomethingö just because we have been talking about it, but then we would be in a situation where players are getting into ships that might very well change again in a coming patch. Given the amount of work to get one of these we just didnÆt feel that was the right thing to do.
The other misconception I want to address is about our public test server. SISI is there so we can have as many people as possible looking for bugs. We think it best to put things out in the public as soon as possible regardless of whether or not itÆs final so we get more eyes on it. This just makes sense to us from a QA standpoint because EVE is an extremely complex piece of software. SISI isnÆt really meant to be a place to try new fittings, do FFA battles or preview upcoming features, although we know people use it for that and we really donÆt mind because more load on our test server helps us find bugs. ItÆs also not a guarantee as to what will be in the next expansion. There have been plenty of times when we dropped a feature that was partially complete on SISI. Arenas and storefronts are two recent examples. ItÆs highly probable that we like pulling features from a release even less than you do but sometimes it cannot be helped. So while supercarriers were on the test server and had gone through plenty of testing it still wasnÆt guaranteed to end up on TQ in that exact state. Only what lands on TQ on patch day is guaranteed.
Please remember that we are here to make a game that you all love to play. None of us comes to work thinking of ways to enrage the playerbase. As the Lead Game Designer, I take my responsibility seriously and that includes taking responsibility for any decisions made by our team. To me, EVE is much more than a job, itÆs something IÆm passionate about constantly improving. I promise you I want EVE to thrive just as much as you do.
Thanks for listening
CCP Hammerhead
Lead Game Designer
Dude - Hammerhead - with all due respect, this has gone way beyond an issue of refining or making MOM's better. You have an outraged player base - including some extremely seasoned veterans.
If you actually do nothing with MOMs now, given the huge expectations and promises you guys made - and make players wait another 6 months for a supposedly "perfect" change - you are just creating worst animosity and disappointment with Eve players - especially the vets.
Release the dang changes that everyone was relatively happy with after working with CCP Abathur. Clearly this is what 80% of the players posting in response to the original post would like to happen. FORGET THIS HYPOTHETICAL PERFECT MOM DESIGN RELEASE. You'll never have a perfect MOM release. Release something - don't just do nothing. That solution is EVEN WORSE at this point. If problems exist that are glaringly deficient, than make changes in a month or two. EVE WILL SURVIVE.
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Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:24:00 -
[1568]
Originally by: Stratio
47 pages of replies in just over 24h, I think that says a lot about the strength of feeling.
take into account that just as many pages have been deleted by the schutzmoderatoren and youll start to have an idea of how ****ed-on-the-internet people are about the proposed changes
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Eben Rochelle
Gallente
RPS holdings
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:31:00 -
[1569]
Nuts to MOM's fix the Sov changes/Dreads. I cant believe your nerfing a shipclass that is being made pretty much redundant anyway!
Naglfar... nuff said.
Please correct me if im wrong but it seems to me that systems with more stargates in are harder to assault than say one with only 2 in as you have to have these blocker thingies (technical term) on all gates? So instead of Arbitrary Moon numbers were down to arbitrary gate numbers. Not to mention crazy timers and having to 23/x lockdown a sys so your blocker thingies dont get hit O_o.
2 years in the making guys, 2 YEARS!
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Darius JOHNSON
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:36:00 -
[1570]
someone call internet jesse jackson my posting civil rights are being violated
Originally by: Iroku Mata
Darius is time to STFU and make your GSM place free for someone who got the humildity to have the job you claim and failled!
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:37:00 -
[1571]
Deleting post???
Geeeeez way to ruin the game I love.
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Sannye
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:44:00 -
[1572]
Thanks for the post Hammerhead, but next time, would you please look into why people are angry before (again) claiming that the entire eve community are ignorant fools that cannot read? (you just said that so much nicer in your post)
1. Moms die to a few of the new titan DD's (witch NOZH claims, titans dont have in his blog)
2. Titans, dreads, carriers DO get a HP buff - MOMS DONT
3. Nag nerf uncalled for
4. A whole weapon system nerfed beyond repair (citadel torps are UTTERLY useless, citadel cruise have very low dps)
To overcome 4. Nozh was so ignorant as to claim a targetpainter would have any influence on capital warfare - THAT is what triggered the whole thing.. that a CCP dev, that MAKES the dev blog about capital ships is SO ignorant, hence the flamewar.
Get rid of the insane nerfs to Nag AND remove the citadel cruise missiles. No, dont rebalance them, remove them alltogeather - out, away. Then work on how to balance missiles and guns in capital warfare, because as they are, missiles are very very underpowered due to traveltime(delayed dps), explotion velocity (nothing moving will ever take full damage), explotion radius (noting less sized than a moon takes full damage).
The solution to the above is NOT TARGETPAINTERS - but a much better thought through missile delevery system.
How you do that i leave to you - but to claim any E-war will help torps give damage is utter fail.
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Innominate
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:45:00 -
[1573]
Edited by: Innominate on 21/11/2009 01:45:56
When first announced dominion was full of great ideas and well thought out updates and changes. Revamped supercaps, no more aoe doomsday, revitalized 0.0. Yet, one by one the good ideas have been scrapped as being "hard". What we're left with is a series of poorly thought out near-random changes which appear to be nothing but change for the sake of change(and pretty planets!) Many of the changes being made depend on other dominion changes in order to work, yet the changes they depend on have been scrapped. Increased cost of holding sov vs no meaningful additions to 0.0 income. 15 billion isk motherships vulnerable to being instapoped by the new titans. etc.
We're less than two weeks from the planned release date and it's clear CCP doesn't even know what they're trying to accomplish with dominion, let alone how to do it.
1401.
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Toman Torax
Rage For Order
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:46:00 -
[1574]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Hi, everyone
We have been carefully watching this thread and I want to set the record straight on a few misconceptions.
First, IÆd like to say that a single developer cannot come in and unilaterally change everything with no oversight. People are spewing a lot of hate at CCP Nozh but instead itÆs a case of shooting the messenger. He is just doing his job trying to improve the game and explain the reasoning for why changes were made. We work as a team and agree on the direction things are taking. We want the game to be balanced and fun for everyone to play. We also think about the future of the game and how it will be in years to come after our changes weighing the medium- and long-term repercussions.
Nozh is the one talking about using target painters on sieged dreads and supercaps, and using several DCUs on supercarriers/motherships/whatever, which nobody does or ever would do. He's also posting graphs and other numbers which are just far removed from being realistic to your game mechanics. So please tell us, is this something you, AS A TEAM, unilaterally agree with, and have come to this concensus about AS A TEAM, with Nozh being your mouthpiece? If ALL OF YOU are using this silly thought process like attempting to use target painters on sieged dreads and the like, I really do fear for the future of this game, because this unequivocally proves just how out of touch with the way this game is ACTUALLY PLAYED that you really all are. Or are you lying through your teeth, and Nozh IS actually the one responsible.
Either way, the answer frightens the hell out of me.
Quote:
We werenÆt entirely happy with the direction and balancing of MOMs before development of Dominion began. Even during the SISI tests they still werenÆt falling into place for us. They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0. So we tried to tune them again to a point we felt was balanced, but then the role of the ships wasnÆt clear once we started to lower the damage. Instead, they started to blur with dreads and carriers.
Did you really feel that they were THAT overpowered? Because I'm just not seeing that as the case. You guys got plenty of feedback about this, and I don't think there was this outcry of "ZOMG SUPERCARRIERS ARE OVERPOWERED!!!!!!one!!!eleven!!! NERF NERF!!!"
And further, did you SERIOUSLY think - ESPECIALLY after *that* thought process, that Nozh's proposed changes were ANY BIT BETTER... in ANY way, shape, or form? Least of all throwing them in at virtually the 11th hour - after the PREVIOUS (Abathur's) changes were tested for TWO MONTHS and seemed FINE?
Quote:
You all made your voices clear with important feedback, we listened and reverted things back to like they are on TQ while we take more time to reassess. We could have tried to put out ôsomethingö just because we have been talking about it, but then we would be in a situation where players are getting into ships that might very well change again in a coming patch. Given the amount of work to get one of these we just didnÆt feel that was the right thing to do.
Okay, seriously? DID you listen? Because I can't see how you can POSSIBLY think that you did. Take, for example, the Naglfar. How on earth is it that you had people telling you ENDLESSLY how broken this ship was, and how, exactly, to fix it (reasonably! - not overpowered!) And FINALLY it seems as though you were putting in some nice changes to this ship... ONLY TO COMPLETELY SCRAP THE WHOLE PLANS and put the ship RIGHT BACK to a completely broken split weapon system with horrible bonuses. Did you feel that ship ship was now overpowered, too? If so, please explain how.
I don't understand how you think that you ARE listening to the feedback of your customers, when you pull stuff like this - especially without explaining why. (continued)
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T'Karr
Minmatar
Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:46:00 -
[1575]
CCP Hammer: we dont want an explanation for the Nag being nerfed again, and the Moms being nerfed (Because that is what happening... buffering the titan so it can close-to instapop a mom, and making dreads more effective from close range. thats not what a Mom pilot wants to hear...). All we want is the SENSIBLE changes to be made, we dont want to go backwards, we want the Nag to stay inline with the other dreads, and we want Moms to be credible useable ships in cap fights. You were closer than you have ever been with Abathurs ideas on the moms and the patches you rolled out on Sisi, they were great, and we loved them! You claim they will be overpowered, but give those poor mom pilots SOMETHING (they spend a lot of isk on useless ships) because at the moment they are still sitting in pointless unusable ships .
The Dev blogs are so contradictory and the fan fest videos contradict everything in the latest dev blog... We dont need an explanation, we just need thoughtfull sensible action... Lets go back to Abathurs ideas.
p.s. I dont even fly capitals or have the skills.... its just complete common sense.
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Kenpachi Viktor
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:46:00 -
[1576]
Edited by: Kenpachi Viktor on 21/11/2009 01:47:52
Originally by: CCP Nozh
...
Every ship needs its niche, a specialized role at which it excels without too much overlap from its closest relatives.
...
We aren't happier with the direction we were taking them as anti-capital Supercarriers.
...
The Titans primary value should be as a fleet's logistical backbone.
The biggest reason I see as why this is not working is:
You have your roles mixed up for the Supercapitals
The Titan does OMGWTFBBQ damage.
The Mothership (Supercarrier) has RR and gang links
And you were trying to have the Mom as anti cap, and the Titan as logistics?!?
Make the Titan the anti-capital supercapital.
Make the Supercarrier the fleet's logistical backbone. Flagship anyone?
Swap the fleet bonus from the Titan, to the Supercarrier.
Buff their HP to what they were going to be under Abathur's changes
Keep the clone vat on the Supercarrier.
Keep the Fighter numbers the same, but limit the bombers via bandwidth.
Increase the damage output of titans non DD weaponds; at lest 1.5 times a dread, before you add on the DD's damage.
Increase the signature radius on both so there is minimal damage reduction on them, as they can't be target painted. (How would anything not get a good hit on something so massively huge?)
A new set of gang-assist modules only fit-able to Supercariers, one of each type: Armored; Information; Siege; & Skirmish
Etc.
Edit 1404 |
Elsa Nietzsche
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:48:00 -
[1577]
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Toman Torax
Rage For Order
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:51:00 -
[1578]
Quote:
The other misconception I want to address is about our public test server. SISI is there so we can have as many people as possible looking for bugs. We think it best to put things out in the public as soon as possible regardless of whether or not itÆs final so we get more eyes on it. This just makes sense to us from a QA standpoint because EVE is an extremely complex piece of software. SISI isnÆt really meant to be a place to try new fittings, do FFA battles or preview upcoming features, although we know people use it for that and we really donÆt mind because more load on our test server helps us find bugs. ItÆs also not a guarantee as to what will be in the next expansion. There have been plenty of times when we dropped a feature that was partially complete on SISI. Arenas and storefronts are two recent examples. ItÆs highly probable that we like pulling features from a release even less than you do but sometimes it cannot be helped. So while supercarriers were on the test server and had gone through plenty of testing it still wasnÆt guaranteed to end up on TQ in that exact state. Only what lands on TQ on patch day is guaranteed.
Okay, lets ignore for a moment the rest of your rabble about FFA battles, testing new fittings, and all of the other junk - because I agree that isn't what sisi is for. But the fact of the matter is, sisi has become MORE than just a "bughunting" server. You DO receive (and USE!) feedback that we give you as a result of testing on sisi. And obviously, there ISN'T a guarantee that something which is tested on sisi will make its way to TQ. But what doesn't make any sense is how something which IS tested, and generally accepted as being fair and balanced, is suddenly scrapped completely, leaving you right back at the drawing board once again. You need to be a lot more verbose about WHY you think things aren't balanced. Vague statements don't cut it, because you just come off as sounding like you're completely out of touch with how the game is actually played - beyond numbers and stats and graphs and spreadhseets. Remember, YOUR Dev team things that target painters are a good way to increase damage on a sieged dread! HTFU and provide REASONS and ANSWERS as to why YOU think changes which your playerbase seems to find acceptible won't work.
Quote:
Please remember that we are here to make a game that you all love to play. None of us comes to work thinking of ways to enrage the playerbase.
If this is true then PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT LET NOZH POST ANYMORE! All he is doing is enraging the playerbase! How many COUNTLESS posts, page after page after page (most of which are being deleted) do you need to get this through your thick skulls?
Quote:
As the Lead Game Designer, I take my responsibility seriously and that includes taking responsibility for any decisions made by our team. To me, EVE is much more than a job, itÆs something IÆm passionate about constantly improving. I promise you I want EVE to thrive just as much as you do.
And if THIS is true, then PLEASE pull your heads out of your asses and don't make ANY more statements like "oh just use a taget painter on a sieged dread and everything will be hunky dory" EVER AGAIN. If you want ANY creditibility NOW or in the future, NOTHING like this should ever be written as a representation of a professional company running a business which pulls in millions in revenue every month.
And you guys need to start listening as well.
You have a lot of tough decisions to make, now - one of which should be delaying this patch until it's done right. If you're serious about being passionate about actually improving this game, delaying the patch should be a no-brainer, because it's just not ready.
Right now your company is teetering on the edge of pulling a blunder of SOE NGE epic proportions. I really love this game, have been playing it for years, and do not want to see that happen. Please don't let it happen.
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Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:51:00 -
[1579]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0.
Irony overload from people who released "Doomsday thru a cyno".
--
081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner
blog |
Isil Rahsen
Gallente
Ferrum Superum
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:52:00 -
[1580]
Originally by: Kenpachi Viktor
Edited by: Kenpachi Viktor on 21/11/2009 01:47:52
Originally by: CCP Nozh
...
Every ship needs its niche, a specialized role at which it excels without too much overlap from its closest relatives.
...
We aren't happier with the direction we were taking them as anti-capital Supercarriers.
...
The Titans primary value should be as a fleet's logistical backbone.
The biggest reason I see as why this is not working is:
You have your roles mixed up for the Supercapitals
The Titan does OMGWTFBBQ damage.
The Mothership (Supercarrier) has RR and gang links
And you were trying to have the Mom as anti cap, and the Titan as logistics?!?
Make the Titan the anti-capital supercapital.
Make the Supercarrier the fleet's logistical backbone. Flagship anyone?
Swap the fleet bonus from the Titan, to the Supercarrier.
Buff their HP to what they were going to be under Abathur's changes
Keep the clone vat on the Supercarrier.
Keep the Fighter numbers the same, but limit the bombers via bandwidth.
Increase the damage output of titans non DD weaponds; at lest 1.5 times a dread, before you add on the DD's damage.
Increase the signature radius on both so there is minimal damage reduction on them, as they can't be target painted. (How would anything not get a good hit on something so massively huge?)
A new set of gang-assist modules only fit-able to Supercariers, one of each type: Armored; Information; Siege; & Skirmish
Etc.
Edit 1404
I disagree with your proposed role for Titans. Turning them into glorified superdreads that can pop their dd wad on a single ship every 10 minutes with no other role seems daft for a 60bil ship. Their fleet bonuses give them something else to do when waiting between doomsdays.
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:53:00 -
[1581]
Originally by: Sannye
Get rid of the insane nerfs to Nag AND remove the citadel cruise missiles. No, dont rebalance them, remove them alltogeather - out, away. Then work on how to balance missiles and guns in capital warfare, because as they are, missiles are very very underpowered due to traveltime(delayed dps), explotion velocity (nothing moving will ever take full damage), explotion radius (noting less sized than a moon takes full damage).
The solution to the above is NOT TARGETPAINTERS - but a much better thought through missile delevery system.
How you do that i leave to you - but to claim any E-war will help torps give damage is utter fail.
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Innominate
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:54:00 -
[1582]
Originally by: Toman Torax
Remember, YOUR Dev team things that target painters are a good way to increase damage on a sieged dread!
I think all 47 pages of *****ing can be boiled down to this one line.
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Pointfive
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Posted - 2009.11.21 01:58:00 -
[1583]
Originally by: Pohbis
Originally by: Sannye
Get rid of the insane nerfs to Nag AND remove the citadel cruise missiles. No, dont rebalance them, remove them alltogeather - out, away. Then work on how to balance missiles and guns in capital warfare, because as they are, missiles are very very underpowered due to traveltime(delayed dps), explotion velocity (nothing moving will ever take full damage), explotion radius (noting less sized than a moon takes full damage).
The solution to the above is NOT TARGETPAINTERS - but a much better thought through missile delevery system.
How you do that i leave to you - but to claim any E-war will help torps give damage is utter fail.
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Misaki Yuuko
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Posted - 2009.11.21 02:01:00 -
[1584]
Edited by: Misaki Yuuko on 21/11/2009 02:03:06
Originally by: CCP Nozh
The Citadel Torpedoes don't do their full potential damage to Dreadnoughts, however they were balanced to do similar amounts of damage towards Dreadnoughts as XL Turrets with this in mind. Citadel Torpedoes have the ability to do more damage to larger targets.
Which? Titans which are not going to be fielded because they are huge useless pile of scrapmetal that costs 80 bill. or a 16 bill. mothership which is even more useless because: destructable weapons by SB or support fleets and you are going to nerf their HP to oblivion.
No, wait: POS mods & towers... which you can't TP. Oh maybe the new IHUBS, outpost and all the new sov parafernalia (unimaginative, but that's an other topic). But they are going to be useless against other capitals: not only delayed damage, but less than guns.
And yes, lets nerd again the failgar because it can be competitive, it's minmatar after all.
Please, START PLAYING YOUR OWN GAME AND STOP THE SPREEDSHEET BULL****.
Quote:
To illustrate how it would have worked with Fighter Bombers, you can take a look at these graphs:
And what's the problem of a 16 bill ship with DESTRUCTABLE weapon systems and that you need to ahve ON THE FIELD to do damage doing the damage of a couple of dreads. And what's the problem of 80 bill titans (which you need to have on the field) doing the damage of 3 dreads, when you need to have them on the field.
See, this is what happens: you don't have a slightless clue of how fights gop and why people acts as they do: if price was so unimportant (specially after moongoo nerf and increaseddifficulty of defending capital arrays) you would see fleets of titans fielded daily without care, yet the only problem with titans was doomsdaying under cynojammer. This is an example of why you MUST play the fekin game to balance that stuff.
Quote:
"Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances."
And people won't fit short range guns with these changes anyway, because if soemone hotdrops ytou at 100km you are ****ed. This fixes absoluttly nothing.
Quote:
"Docking games"
We can all agree that docking games are, well, lame. But this problem is across all ship classes, regardless of their hit-point count. Thus, this problem has to be solved by some other means than to limit docking for the capital fatties. We'd like to work on other solutions for this problem.
Fix the dame docking range and station exists, add variable docking timers per class. There you go, wasn't so hard.
Quote:
"Titans"
As stated in the blog, Titans primary role should not be direct damage. We still feel like they need more defined roles, this will be worked on along with proper Mothership changes.
So cool, buying an huge pile of crapp for 80 bill for nothing, and anyway, how long until the fixes, an other couple of years? Then with your excellent SCRUM & AGILE methods (hint: you can't use that for every feature, like you don't for CORE development) you will get a halfassed solution in 2 weeks which you will change in the last minute... sounds familar.
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PriestWithKnives
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.21 02:08:00 -
[1585]
Since nozh was a messenger and has no idea about capitals or much of anything dealing with them and this was instead a message from the whole ccp team; was it the whole team at ccp that was telling nozh target painters on a pheonix and dockable motherships were where it's at and letting everyone know the proposed and worked out changed for the last month are now nothing?
Hammerhead put a better spin on this, with all the mass deleted posts and nonsense being posted by ccp, I'm wondering why I give you guys money at this point and just how much like swg this whole mess is going to end up like.
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Moon Kitten
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2009.11.21 02:09:00 -
[1586]
Why do you hate mothership pilots? Is it because Seleene used to fly one?
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Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.21 02:09:00 -
[1587]
CURRENTLY on SISI Motherships STILL retain the HP BUFF and INCREASE JUMP RANGE. They Currenly have the OLD STYLE Bonuses (vat bay, triage, gang mods, remote rep bonus hel).
When you say you wont be doing ANY changes to motherships do you mean you wont be changing the bonuses but the Ships will still retain the Jump range and HP buff?
Please Confirm this? Please Clarify the poorly presented info in the blog. |
Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.21 02:11:00 -
[1588]
If this "rush to release" mentality is because of Star Trek Online, you are aware it's effectively WoW in Space and there's no penalty for ship loss except "minor system damage," right? There's no need to rush anything into EVE because of another spaceship MMO now having a hard publication date. The analogy's been beaten to death, stuffed, and mounted, but SWG did that because of FFXI and it was the bullet in the kneecaps for the game (the NGE was the headshot).
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Ammath
Amarr
Burning Technologies
Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2009.11.21 02:11:00 -
[1589]
Edited by: Ammath on 21/11/2009 02:15:36
CCP Doesn't care about CAP people....
CCP Doesn't care about CAP people....
CCP Doesn't care about CAP people....
From the MMORPG Article:
"Noah Ward:
Unlike most other MMORPGs, with EVE we try to give every class of ship a clear role. It's not a simple game of bigger is better. It's more like a complex and nuanced game of Rock/Paper/Scissors. Unfortunately the poor Supercarrier (previously known as Mothership) never had a clear role much like the lion in Wizard of Oz didn't have a heart. They occupy a space between the massive Titans and the more ubiquitous Carrier class of ship without really standing out on their own. We wanted to improve this situation, find their true role and make them something pilots would be proud to fly; enter Fighter Bombers. Fighter Bombers are anti-capital weapons that launch big dumb warheads that do a lot of damage but have trouble hitting the broad side of a battleship. We like the direction things are heading and the models look damn cool but we're still not 100% sure the changes are achieving what we want to achieve. This is why the changes to Motherships/Supercarriers are being deferred and won't go out in Dominion 1.0. We're going to continue to play test both internally and on our public test servers. We're going to continue to talk to players. We're going to follow the yellow brick road and we're going to find the unique role these ships fill which will hopefully make the largest number of people happy."
Oh Really??? But for the short term you refuse to fix the obvious but not overpowering issues with them. Hitpoint and Jump Range... If you just put those in we could at least appreciate that you want to work the issue out more... but letting them be 16bn isk Pinatas full of Officer Goodness is just goofy man..
Crap at least let us dock moms then until its fixed so we can get our alts back to do something useful..
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Li Na
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Posted - 2009.11.21 02:12:00 -
[1590]
Why not instead of a damage bonus for the titans DD per level make it a time reduction for refire rate or activation time. Make them train for the extra refire rate speed its not like it needs more damage.
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White Aero
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.21 02:13:00 -
[1591]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
CURRENTLY on SISI Motherships STILL retain the HP BUFF and INCREASE JUMP RANGE. They Currenly have the OLD STYLE Bonuses (vat bay, triage, gang mods, remote rep bonus hel).
When you say you wont be doing ANY changes to motherships do you mean you wont be changing the bonuses but the Ships will still retain the Jump range and HP buff?
Please Confirm this? Please Clarify the poorly presented info in the blog.
ANSWER!!
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Li Na
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Posted - 2009.11.21 02:17:00 -
[1592]
Holy crap CCP youv done something cool
on SISI right now for my nyx I can use 20 fighters but only launch 15 FBs due to BW restriction also according to ship details I no longer recieve my 5% bonus per lvl to bombers just fighters. CCP if this is true you might be on your way to redeeming yourself
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McFly
C0LDFIRE
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Posted - 2009.11.21 02:19:00 -
[1593]
Wow CCP, you guys really fixed moms... I understand you want to rework them, and have run out of time. Okay got it. But reverting to no change at all while continuing with the other dominion changes you have just made motherships unusable. Titan changes specifically will for sure keep mothership's logged off and hugging poses. The threat of Titan hotdropping and instapopping a mothership is too much risk for these ships and their pilots to be used.
Please move forward with at least the HP Buff at a minimum, otherwise you'll be condemning these ships to remain logged off until whatever changes are eventually implemented. On another note, when should we expect to hear or begin our input on the Dominion Motherships v3.0?
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.21 02:21:00 -
[1594]
Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 21/11/2009 02:23:24
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Hi, everyone
We have been carefully watching this thread and I want to set the record straight on a few misconceptions.
(..)
The other misconception I want to address is about our public test server. (..)
Thanks for your reply Hammer.
It's good to see some explanation, even though it's not in-depth, but it gives us an idea of what your thoughts and motivations have been.
I'd like to comment again on both the mothership (non-)change and Sisi.
While I do understand your reasons for not changing the motherships until a future patch, I think it's a bit of a harsh decision.
This is due to two reasons:
- Titans do get changed. The new doomsday weapon threatens motherships, and the hp boost is what motherships would need to counter that threat.
- You already told players in a devblog how motherships were supposed to get changed.
Point 2 is also something I'd like to point out with regard to Sisi.
Of course no change on Sisi is final or can be relied upon. It's the Test-server for a reason and any changes there might just be a crazy idea some dev wants to evaluate with player-feedback (although you got to admit it usually is kind of the final step for design and test iteration..).
But what about devblogs?
If you publish a devblog and say "this is what we're going to do", isn't that much more than some test-runs on Sisi?
I'm not 100% sure, but have arenas and storefronts ever been points in a devblog which covered changes of a comming patch?
This is what bothers me a bit.
You announced changes to motherships, well actually one could say you promised them, as mothership pilots were longing for a boost or change that made their ships more useful or important, and now you're about to leave them out in the rain.
I suggested earlier to give them at least half the planned hp boost, since I believe that a hp boost is what motherships need and should be receiving anyway, sooner or later. Those are supercapitals after all. And half of it to make sure it's not too much.
If you previously considered the planned changes to be ok, half of one aspect of the change, basically a passive and defensive change, shouldn't be game-breaking. Even 1/3 would be something.
Please also note that I don't own a mothership. It's not my personal agenda. I just think you owe them.
Of course it would only be a transitional solution and as such questionable. It might even worry mothership pilots, as they might fear you could forget about them and not follow up on that temporary change.
But that's something which can be easily avoided by simply not forgetting and keeping up the communication
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
ace togge
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.21 02:22:00 -
[1595]
Soon we will see the Starwars Galaxies effect :)
Seriously.
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Kuar Z'thain
Fraser's Finest
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Posted - 2009.11.21 02:27:00 -
[1596]
Quote:
Deleting posts is non-constructive
Disagreement is constructive
You can have a discussion or you can have censorship, they are mutually exclusive.
Posting this again.
They must have a delete script or something.
Free Abathur |
Misaki Yuuko
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Posted - 2009.11.21 02:30:00 -
[1597]
Edited by: Misaki Yuuko on 21/11/2009 02:30:45
Hey hey, this explains a lot:
http://ccp.vo.llnwd.net/o2/features/revelations2/vid-ivar.swf
Goddamnit, oh the irony.
(IBF Ban/Delete/Whatever).
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Lira Reib
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Posted - 2009.11.21 02:35:00 -
[1598]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
First, IÆd like to say that a single developer cannot come in and unilaterally change everything with no oversight. People are spewing a lot of hate at CCP Nozh but instead itÆs a case of shooting the messenger. He is just doing his job trying to improve the game and explain the reasoning for why changes were made. We work as a team and agree on the direction things are taking. We want the game to be balanced and fun for everyone to play. We also think about the future of the game and how it will be in years to come after our changes weighing the medium- and long-term repercussions.
I'm down with not vilifying nozh, but the fact is the words "target painters" are in a dev blog about capitals. Somebody needs to be vilified, and if it's the entire capital team I'm pretty sure we can adapt.
Quote:
We werenÆt entirely happy with the direction and balancing of MOMs before development of Dominion began. Even during the SISI tests they still werenÆt falling into place for us. They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0. So we tried to tune them again to a point we felt was balanced, but then the role of the ships wasnÆt clear once we started to lower the damage. Instead, they started to blur with dreads and carriers.
Whatever the vision for motherships is, I'd just like to recommend that you add "Making the customers happy" to it. The direction things are going right now is short on that. You can apply this to capitals too; phoenix and nag do NOT need a nerf at this point in time.
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Li Na
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Posted - 2009.11.21 02:39:00 -
[1599]
Hey if these changes you have implemented on the MSs stays you have won me back from all my hate now just bring the Titans back to where they were put the Nag back the way it was and give us our improved AFs
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Dream Raven
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.21 02:41:00 -
[1600]
Originally by: Misaki Yuuko
Edited by: Misaki Yuuko on 21/11/2009 02:30:45
Hey hey, this explains a lot:
http://ccp.vo.llnwd.net/o2/features/revelations2/vid-ivar.swf
Goddamnit, oh the irony.
(IBF Ban/Delete/Whatever).
He doesn't look like a capital pilot at all. No neckbeard or anything.
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Kruzenshtern
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.21 02:42:00 -
[1601]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
People are spewing a lot of hate at CCP Nozh but instead itÆs a case of shooting the messenger.
We would appreciate if you choose a better messenger, so he wouldn't have to get shot at. Better as in:
- actually answering the relevant questions, instead of going out and about the issue. No is a good answer sometimes, but spending multiple dozens of lines on various capital redesign issues and exactly zero on MS/SC in the thread burning with MS/SC questions is not a good move
- having an actual idea about how game mechanic works (painters vs dreads, etc), OR patiently and explicitly explaining to us why our knowledge is useless. Yes we can theorize that perhaps the mighty devs can suddenly make painters work on sieged dreads. Then tell us so, and be done with it. Otherwise you are putting fires out with gasoline, and making your messenger look stupid in the process.
TL;DR version: if you want to explain - EXPLAIN. Ditch those slimy PR methods.
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.21 02:43:00 -
[1602]
Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 21/11/2009 02:43:59
Originally by: Li Na
Why not instead of a damage bonus for the titans DD per level make it a time reduction for refire rate or activation time. Make them train for the extra refire rate speed its not like it needs more damage.
This is an interesting idea and would probably make doomsday weapons easier to balance.
However it would decrease the incentive to train the skill up to maximum. So it's not a perfect concept.
Imho I've been throwing ideas around in my head of 2 DDs being required to kill a capital ship. A single DD would/should then only severely damage it.
- It would encourage timing and co-ordination of titans. Requiring more than simply pressing a button is always a good thing.
- It would also discourage and to a certain degree prevent solo-DD-drive-bys.
- It would allow titan capital turrets to be boosted as previously planned.
The first two points would be an issue if titans were rare. Since there are so many ingame, it certainly isn't an issue.
However it's hard to achieve since capital effective hp differ so heavily.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Promethian child
Amarr
0utbreak
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Posted - 2009.11.21 02:43:00 -
[1603]
Subscription successfully cancelled
Thats what you get for deleting posts.
I will not play a game run by a bunch of stasi bastards nvm paying for it.
The deletion of constructive posts only shows to me that you do not give a rats arse about your most loyal fanbase
The only thing that counts for you is getting in subs and to that end you have stooped to the level any growing corp goes
employing ******s that spin a nice tale but have no idea about the product they are selling.
Have fun doing SWG all over again.
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.21 02:50:00 -
[1604]
Originally by: Promethian child
I will not play a game run by a bunch of stasi bastards nvm paying for it.
I would delete your post simply because of that.
I'm perfectly fine with forum mods doing their job btw. Some of the crap which gets posted here isn't worth the hard-drive space it occupies.
If you feel masochistic enough and want to read it all up, go to EVE-Search.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
Li Na
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Posted - 2009.11.21 02:51:00 -
[1605]
Ok maybe they are not 100% fixed in SISI FBs do 0 damage to just about everything
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Cha chingk
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Posted - 2009.11.21 02:51:00 -
[1606]
Will let subscription expire, which will be after Dominion. Good luck getting me to change my mind. (Used to love EVE, the changes and CCCP customer service skills burns my stomach.)
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Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.21 02:51:00 -
[1607]
Originally by: Tarron Sarek
I would delete your post simply because of that.
why does he give a **** he canceled his account
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Kynah
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Posted - 2009.11.21 02:57:00 -
[1608]
Reading all these posts, makes me wonder one little thing. How can a company survive when it goes out its way to alientate its customner base?
How can you allow system development to so substantially go off the rails as to have to admit failure and start again? Who is going to be held accopuntable for these horrendous misjudgments and pay the price?
It is now obvious why CCP's homeland got into so much difficulty; arrogance mixed with incompetence and ignorance will only sustain you for so long.
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Nimrias
Gallente
Atropos Asylum
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Posted - 2009.11.21 03:01:00 -
[1609]
Edited by: Nimrias on 21/11/2009 03:05:42
I hate poasting, and I'm trying to be constructive here, but you just don't get it CCP. This isn't going to be a long, crazy rant.
Where did this all go wrong?
1. Changing MOMs on Sisi that had been tested and tested and tested without so much as a "hey, we're trying something new with MOMs" post. A player noticed and posted first. Shameful!
2. Once said thread got fully underway, Nozh popped in for a "yeah, we changed 'em all right" post. No explanation, just "yep, they've changed". CCP Hammerhead says that they weren't happy with the direction the MOM changes were going. Well, that was news to all those fools that logged into Sisi to help test the MOM -> SC changes.
3. Later, Nozh comes back into said thread with "tested changes are gone, nutty thrown-in-at-the-last-minute changes are gone, but HEY, YOU CAN DOCK MOMS AND THEY COST LESS TO BUILD NOW! (SURPRISE!)".
Hmmm...Where did it go wrong? I think a "Hey guys, thanks for all the months of testing, but we just aren't happy with where we're heading" post, which hopefully contained "since we're unhappy, we're going in some new directions on Sisi, but don't freak, these aren't getting tossed into Dominion at the last moment" would have greatly eased tensions.
Please! Learn from this CCP! Learn! I'm tired of all the damn posting required to get your attention about silly things that should have been addressed right the first time, not after hundreds and hundreds of forum posts.
-Nim
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Sajeera
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Posted - 2009.11.21 03:01:00 -
[1610]
Edited by: Sajeera on 21/11/2009 03:01:58
Edited by: Sajeera on 21/11/2009 03:01:46
Originally by: Tarron Sarek
Originally by: Promethian child
I will not play a game run by a bunch of stasi bastards nvm paying for it.
I would delete your post simply because of that.
I'm perfectly fine with forum mods doing their job btw. Some of the crap which gets posted here isn't worth the hard-drive space it occupies.
If you feel masochistic enough and want to read it all up, go to EVE-Search.
Actually you cant read it on eve-search too. For some reason today eve-search started to make its updates with around 30-40 mins delay aswell as failing to retrieve many of the posts.
Either CCP blocked or delayed the updates which eve-search makes, or they just made Chribba "an offer he cant refuse".
And yes i posted this before and it got deleted.
[1438]
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Innominate
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.21 03:08:00 -
[1611]
Originally by: Kynah
How can you allow system development to so substantially go off the rails as to have to admit failure and start again? Who is going to be held accopuntable for these horrendous misjudgments and pay the price?
If CCP would admit failure and start over on dominion, they'd be a lot better off. Most of the problems stem from throwing out many of the original ideas behind dominion without compensating for it. All of the titan, mothership, capital, sov, 0.0 economic changes are intertwined. As they've abandoned bits and pieces of each, there has been no modification to other changes that rely on them.
Leaving motherships the way they are makes the modified titans ridiculous and motherships worthless. Leaving titans the way they are now retains the AOE doomsday which is both the bane of all subcap pilots, and are likely made worse when sov fights are moved onto gates.
Dominion is not a few independent changes, it is an interconnected, interdependent web. Each bit directly affects the others. Each one they've thrown out has created numerous other issues that have been ignored.
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Li Na
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Posted - 2009.11.21 03:15:00 -
[1612]
For those of you who have not been paying attention they have just released a new patch for SISI with completly new MS changes perhapes you should check them out before continuing the rants.
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Promethian child
Amarr
0utbreak
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Posted - 2009.11.21 03:18:00 -
[1613]
Originally by: Li Na
For those of you who have not been paying attention they have just released a new patch for SISI with completly new MS changes perhapes you should check them out before continuing the rants.
Wut ? for once CCP took notice of a 48 page + deleted posts threadnought
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Condecinte
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Posted - 2009.11.21 03:19:00 -
[1614]
I'd like to say hi to everybody cancelling their accounts. Don't let the door hit you on the way out and you be sure to have a good time playing WOW.
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White Aero
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.21 03:25:00 -
[1615]
Originally by: White Aero
Originally by: Kraken Kill
CURRENTLY on SISI Motherships STILL retain the HP BUFF and INCREASE JUMP RANGE. They Currenly have the OLD STYLE Bonuses (vat bay, triage, gang mods, remote rep bonus hel).
When you say you wont be doing ANY changes to motherships do you mean you wont be changing the bonuses but the Ships will still retain the Jump range and HP buff?
Please Confirm this? Please Clarify the poorly presented info in the blog.
ANSWER!!
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Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.21 03:25:00 -
[1616]
Ok checked out the changes on Sisi- From what ive heard the fighter bombers still need target painting to do damage.
The Phoenix still sufferes massively with the explo radius of cruise and torps requiring target painting..........
The nag is still nerfed to the stoneage.
The titan is still ineffective other than to jump bridge. |
Tommy Blue
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.21 03:30:00 -
[1617]
CCP, I'm disappointed that you deleted my post (and those of many many many many others). I would like you to put my post back (and everyone else's) because we are just stating the facts. If you cant handle the truth than you dont deserve to work in the MMO industry.
Anyways, do what Kraken said earlier which I had in my original post.
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Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.21 03:33:00 -
[1618]
Edited by: Vadinho on 21/11/2009 03:34:08
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Ok checked out the changes on Sisi- From what ive heard the fighter bombers still need target painting to do damage.
The Phoenix still sufferes massively with the explo radius of cruise and torps requiring target painting..........
The nag is still nerfed to the stoneage.
The titan is still ineffective other than to jump bridge.
baby steps, kraken, if theyre willing to hear us out on this maybe theyll come to their senses and give the citadel missiles not-awful blast radii and hand back the naglfar's not-awful bonuses
edit: re-linking kraken kill's post from earlier so you can print it out and use a magnet to affix it to the dev team's whiteboard hth =D
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KeratinBoy
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.21 03:39:00 -
[1619]
Originally by: Li Na
For those of you who have not been paying attention they have just released a new patch for SISI with completly new MS changes perhapes you should check them out before continuing the rants.
You mean they changed stuff without mentioning it in this here thread devoted to that exact stuff? Well, I am surprised.
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Sajeera
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Posted - 2009.11.21 03:40:00 -
[1620]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Ok checked out the changes on Sisi- From what ive heard the fighter bombers still need target painting to do damage.
The Phoenix still sufferes massively with the explo radius of cruise and torps requiring target painting..........
The nag is still nerfed to the stoneage.
The titan is still ineffective other than to jump bridge.
There will be no fighter bombers dude. They said they are reverting all the changes, at the moment motherships on SiSi are the same from TQ just with buffed HPs and jump range.
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Kralin Ignatov
Gallente
The Arrow Project
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Posted - 2009.11.21 03:44:00 -
[1621]
Nozh, really, you fail.
please quit now. This expansion would be awesome without you,
Free CCP Abathur
______________________
There once was a killboard for BoB, then there was no BoB. - killboard.net |
Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.21 04:04:00 -
[1622]
Originally by: Sajeera
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Ok checked out the changes on Sisi- From what ive heard the fighter bombers still need target painting to do damage.
The Phoenix still sufferes massively with the explo radius of cruise and torps requiring target painting..........
The nag is still nerfed to the stoneage.
The titan is still ineffective other than to jump bridge.
There will be no fighter bombers dude. They said they are reverting all the changes, at the moment motherships on SiSi are the same from TQ just with buffed HPs and jump range.
Someone Posted that they had 20 fighters usable and 15 bombers useable? are you saying this isnt the case? I cant test myself as my mothership pilot is banned on sisi...
Ive just about lost sight about what all this crazyness is about, I have to go back to the start to remind myself that im not just some whiner upset about his new mothership getting spoilt.
Come- lets go back to the beginning.
So here I am, I have a bunch of money. I think well I can start heading down the path of Titan I guess- motherships are so useless that i wont bother with those. So i start selling my crap etc. Kraken is pretty good in carriers right now with skills and my alt is getting ever closer to titan skills, wouldnt be the best titan but getting closer. My isk is some distance from a titan though.
I hear about these changes- Wham! Fighter bombers? 9k dps? HP boost? ooooh! So i think ok- No titan, ill get a mothership for kraken, hm what do i need for this, ill need an alt to baby sit the ship so i get one on another account thats just about ready to fly it now (needs the carrier skill book which ive been - understandably holding off buying...)...
So Right now Im under the impression- as there is an ACTUAL DEV BLOG WITH PICTURES AND EVERYTHING that there will be bombers, and the ship is an anti capital ship and x/y/z...
So i get the ship building, get a load of pimp mods etc for it.
Then after all the testing and not only me but MANY MANY in my alliance building these ships we suddenly hear and notice -
why do the supercarriers only get 1 fighter per level? is it a bug? did the do something wrong and mix up carrier stats into them?
Silence then, how long was it for again?
then OMGWTFPWN happened. You planned to reduce the build price. so wait- all those people cooking these ships- instanly lose 10billion? what sort of terrible planning was that? seriously? Did you not think people would be so mad?
Then OMGWTFPWN mk2 happened. You planned to let them dock- right after you mentioned that stations WOULD be tied into holding Sov (even after you said they wouldnt be originally) so this ment that EPIC ON A SCALE NEVER BEFORE SEEN docking games would take place. Again what did you think the player base would say about this?
Ok. So what do we have now? we have people who had been spending 16B on these ships being told-
You get 10 fighters like carriers, you can dock and your ship lost 10b in value.
Then you backpedled away from this. You said Oh wait! you can have 15 drones, arnt you lucky! well 15 drones if you use drone control units LOL ok- FINE DAMN WHY DO YOU WHINE SO MUCH, 15 drones base and 20 with drone control units. Wowee! 16b tier 2 carriers able to use 5 extra drones from regular carriers! wowee!
You then made the fighterbombers prettttttttty useless. you suggested 3600 explosion radius? You stupid? You then realised yes you were stupid, reduced it to 3200. At 3200 its still stupid. it needs to be 1500 or less.
Then you went on a rampage. You made it seem like the playerbase was ungreatful for these changes you were offering.
You should have kept the original idea Many people said that having 15 fighterbombers but 20 drones was fine, just balance the damage of the 15 bombers to do at least 2 dreads worth of damage WITHOUT needing 3 target painters.
So When I realise this, Im reminded that the players have done nothing wrong at all and their 'whines' are more than justified. |
S'T'A'L'K'E'R
Pirate Academy
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Posted - 2009.11.21 04:09:00 -
[1623]
Reset all Dreadnought's changes! It is just NOT READY for TQ.
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Sajeera
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Posted - 2009.11.21 04:13:00 -
[1624]
Right from the dev blog:
This means NO CHANGES WILL BE MADE TO MOTHERSHIPS IN DOMINION. Since they are part of the original rebalancing effort, the DEPLOYMENT OF FIGHTER BOMBERS WILL ALSO BE POSTPONED
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Li Na
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Posted - 2009.11.21 04:18:00 -
[1625]
I have personally seen 20 fighters 15 bombers. However micro torps seem to be missing the exp velocity attribute causing them to do 0 damage to everything jump range is 11.25 with max skills 7,500 Mbit/sec is the bandwidth limit FBs use 500 Mbit/sec but like I said at this time do no damage its a great step in the right direction. I am not a fan of the NAG but changing it back to worse than the way it was is not the answer. Make a compromise with the titans go 150% instead of the full blown 200% or make it a % per lvl of titan not a role bonus incentive to train to lvl 5. Reward players for time spent training.
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Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.21 04:23:00 -
[1626]
what CCP say or what they dont Say and What happens are several different things.
This Dev blog is a load of nonsense. I expect some mothership change will occur based on the games membership forcing it through. The HP buff and Jump range going through is a Change. These will happen even though the Blog says otherwise.
If they dont happen- Simply- people will leave the game and attention would be brought to CCP from outside the game and a lot of negative press would arrive.
The last few blogs and Dev responses have all been a load of nonsense and changes completely different to what they have writen have come about. The original blog - Trashed.
The post about the 10 fighters? Trashed.
The post about the 6B build cost? Trashed.
The Post about bombers with 3600 explo radius? Trashed.
The post about bombers with 3200 Explo radius? Trashed.
The Post about 15 drones? Trashed.
The Post about Super Carriers docking? Trashed.
I dont believe what I read from CCP anymore. They will impliment changes to supercarriers/motherships in this dominion patch because logic says so and the playerbase says so. the TQ version of Motherships is not compatable with the Sisi Version of Titans. |
John MacCoy
Amarr
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 04:24:00 -
[1627]
Edited by: John MacCoy on 21/11/2009 04:25:10
Cancel Dominion.
There I said it.
This whole thing is a shambles. You dont have a clue what you're doing anymore. You had changes that everyone loved and because everyone loved them you thought something was wrong therefore they had to be changed. You then realised that everyone hated the newer changes so you then made even more changes that everyone hated. Now everyone is really p****d so you decide to reverse all changes to one thing and completely mess up the other changes to something that resembles the defence of luxemburg in World War Two.
Anyone else seeing this?
Come on CCP, listen to us, Please. We are the players. We play the game. We know how is it to be played. We know what makes us happy and what really sucks. Is it really that hard to listen to the people that basically pay you? Come on!
Page 49
Post 1454
---------------
It's a Trap! |
Kalissa
D00M.
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 04:33:00 -
[1628]
Originally by: John MacCoy
Edited by: John MacCoy on 21/11/2009 04:25:10
Cancel Dominion.
There I said it.
This whole thing is a shambles. You dont have a clue what you're doing anymore. You had changes that everyone loved and because everyone loved them you thought something was wrong therefore they had to be changed. You then realised that everyone hated the newer changes so you then made even more changes that everyone hated. Now everyone is really p****d so you decide to reverse all changes to one thing and completely mess up the other changes to something that resembles the defence of luxemburg in World War Two.
Anyone else seeing this?
Come on CCP, listen to us, Please. We are the players. We play the game. We know how is it to be played. We know what makes us happy and what really sucks. Is it really that hard to listen to the people that basically pay you? Come on!
Page 49
Post 1454
After reading your post it occured to me you may have hit on something. The very fact that for the first time I can remember everyone was happy with the potential changes may have spooked CCP into thinking they were making a horrible mistake.
Trust us CCP, you werent.
|
Kuzim Blaky'all
Minmatar
Recycling and Recovery
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 04:42:00 -
[1629]
Edited by: Kuzim Blaky''all on 21/11/2009 04:44:11
Yo momma ship be all shes worth
since a day a dawg momma ship firs give birth
she ain lose she value, she still worth a bunch
even tho da ccp posse almost cost crunch
the value, teh cost, the thins what go in
when a dawg be a momma ship makin'
but ain no word on bufin up re-re crew
since ccp posse gave a dawg salvager 2
all a dawg need to make him chill
is bad dawgs to pay they silence tax bill
but dawg, somtims someone be flying big boat
an top dawgs, in they ship, be mad as a goat
when a posse, be a viking, cant figure out
what a dawg do, it makes payin dawgs shout
so dig it dawg, i jus got a message:
when a senate make a bill, a dawg commit to its passage
when da posse who pay
an play
all the day
an a bigger dawg say
ok
to him death ray
an all dawgs else, who had time to test
say "Dawg dig it, all da work you do? is da best!"
jus let it happen, water under a bridge
we be chill again in no time
like we be in a frige
in short dawg, make da reaper touff
49,1455 word up
|
Kai Lae
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 05:02:00 -
[1630]
Originally by: Lira Reib
I'm down with not vilifying nozh, but the fact is the words "target painters" are in a dev blog about capitals. Somebody needs to be vilified, and if it's the entire capital team I'm pretty sure we can adapt.
Confirmed. Also notice how the fact they've totally ignored the objections how they've nerfed the phoenix into uselessness, and nerfed the naggy into near uselessness. Frankly I'm tired of being told to train for a revelation.
|
|
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Johnette Napolitano
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 05:14:00 -
[1631]
And the deletions are STILL going on. But respond to the topics brought up? Oh no, too much work!
|
Tommy Blue
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 05:24:00 -
[1632]
CCP, please hire Kraken.
He knows what the **** is goin on.
|
Xavieer Naidoo
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 05:40:00 -
[1633]
The sky is falling and we are all doomed.
Anybody quiting EvE - please contract your stuff to me. Thank you.
|
Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 05:40:00 -
[1634]
Pages upon pages of deleted posts and you're still solving nothing CCFail, all you're doing is proving we're right and that you're incompetent.
GTFO of our EVE and put someone with a clue in charge. This thread is full of support for the original bomber mothership changes and everyone supports the Titan buffs.
Dominion = NGE, end of story.
|
Kuar Z'thain
Fraser's Finest
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 05:47:00 -
[1635]
Quote:
Deleting posts is non-constructive
Disagreement is constructive
You can have a discussion or you can have censorship, they are mutually exclusive.
How about you mods HTFU and actually ban me, if you're gonna keep deleting my posts.
I'm not gonna stop posting this.
Free Abathur |
Eheufaucan
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
Initiative Mercenaries
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 05:47:00 -
[1636]
@lord cyrez
Nice work. I did some calculations and test runs on Sisi and get the same results (except I didn't look at the Claymore and Ragnarok Sig Bonuses). Just one thing: nearly all Caldari pilots use shield tanks and with shield extender rigs your sig radius goes up. In a real fight the Phoenix sig radius would be around 2000 so the damage reduction from citadel torps would only be around 11% and not 21%. But still you lose some dps. I think everything is said about this stupid Target Painters idea. Just one more thing: The Phoenix is a shield tanker so you need your med slots. I would never ever drop 2-3 tank slots on that thing just to fit painters.
You've only looked at the explosions radius but the situation is even worse. The range of your Citadel Torps is limited to 37km and you can't switch to lange range ammo like turret dreads. But the biggest problem is the explosion velocity. In siege mode it's reduced to 12m/s and in my opinion thats a bigger problem than the high explosion radius.
CCP Nozh is right when he said "On Titans and Supercapitals that [high explosion radius] doesn't matter as their Signature Radius is already very large to begin with." True, the sig radius of carriers, moms and titans is big enough so they receive 100% of the phoenix' citadel torps damage. BUT only if they don't move. If they're flying with max speed the incoming damage is reduced significantly due to the extremly slow explosion velocity.
Damage reduction because of the high eploxions radius:
Naglfar 27%
Revelation 24%
Moros 23%
Phoenix 21%
Damage reduction because of the slow explosion velocity:
(numbers in brackets are the damage reduction if the ship uses a T2 100mn AB and a T2 Overdrive)
Ragnarok 18% (33%)
Erebus 2%
Avatar full damage (10%)
Leviathan full damage (5%)
Hel 36% (51%)
Nyx 26%
Aeon 15%
Wyvern 11%
Nidhoggur 85% (89%)
Thanatos 81%
Archon 81%
Chimera 78%
The full damage is only applied to the Avatar or the Leviathan - no matter if they move or not. But the Ragnarok receives 18% less damage when moving with max speed. Titans are the largest ships in game and with the current missile stats you can't even do full damage to these flying stations. Its getting much more worse when you look at the Moms and Carriers. A Nidhoggur receives 85% less damage!! For my test runs I've used a Phoenix with 3 Citadel Torp launchers, a siege module, two T2 Damage mods and all damage skills at 5. This phoenix did 7369dps with kin and 5895dps with em/therm/expl torps. When fighting a Nidhoggur travelling at max speed the dps was reduced to 1105dps kin (810dps em/therm/expl). If the carrier fits a BS sized AB the dps was reduced to 810dps kin and 648dps em/therm/expl. A BS with a gank setup does the same (or even more) damage. Interesting fact: when fighting a carrier (especially the Nidhoggur) it doensn't matter whether you enter siege or not. If you're in siege the dps is drastically reduced due to the expl.velocity drawback. If you're not in siege you won't get the dps boost but at least your damage reaches the carrer at 100%. In the end you do nearly the same damage.
With the current stats on Sisi I would never fit Citadel Torps anymore. I will switch to Citadel Crusie Missiles which means 1 month additional training time. Or I spend that month on training Minmar BS to 5 because most of the Minmar caps can now speedtank Caldari Dreads without a single speed mod. they just need to set their subwarp speed to max.
|
Johnette Napolitano
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 06:00:00 -
[1637]
Thanks for the continued deletion of posts calling you out on your censoring ways CCP. Spend this much time working on the game and you guys will be on the right track
|
Lady Karma
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 06:04:00 -
[1638]
Originally by: Eheufaucan
Or I spend that month on training Minmar BS to 5 because most of the Minmar caps can now speedtank Caldari Dreads without a single speed mod. they just need to set their subwarp speed to max.
Sweet, Minmatar got their speed tank back...just in an unexpected area
|
Flaming Lemming
Caldari
Puppeteer Press
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 06:09:00 -
[1639]
Edited by: Flaming Lemming on 21/11/2009 06:08:57
Originally by: Kuar Z'thain
Deleting posts is non-constructive
Disagreement is constructive
You can have a discussion or you can have censorship, they are mutually exclusive.
Again, a logical argument.1452
|
Kuar Z'thain
Fraser's Finest
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 06:11:00 -
[1640]
Originally by: Flaming Lemming
Edited by: Flaming Lemming on 21/11/2009 06:08:57
Originally by: Kuar Z'thain
Deleting posts is non-constructive
Disagreement is constructive
You can have a discussion or you can have censorship, they are mutually exclusive.
Again, a logical argument.1452
Careful, you might disappear too.
Free Abathur |
|
|
Luna Negra
FinFleet
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 06:22:00 -
[1641]
CCP you could at least:
- Give MotherShips the HP buff (to survive over 2 Titan "deathrays")
- Increase the jump distance to the same as dreads (can be used to support dread fleets after that)
I am flying my second MS in EVE and not satisfied if i need to stay inside POS for another 6 months. With these changes at least i can use it like a carrier...
_________________________
Gravity you win again! |
BanMeAgainPlz
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 06:26:00 -
[1642]
Edited by: BanMeAgainPlz on 21/11/2009 06:27:57
Figured I may as well get this account banned from the forums too since my question still hasn't been answered.
Four times deleted and four times posted again CCP. Censorship won't make it go away.
Originally by: Isil Rahsen
OK then CCP Hammerhead, I would like your *teams* decision making process on returning the Naglfar to a useless split weaponed piece of crap after only one patch cycle of being fixed? Why could the bonuses have not been adjusted but LEFT ON THE GUNS? I'm really trying to understand the rationale here when even CCP have admitted split weapons systems are fail hence the change to the Nag to double gun bonuses in the first place.
Post [1368] again. Atleast 176 posts deleted so far according to eve-search.
Post [1455] Free Abathur
|
III LightBringer
The Treehugger Corp
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 06:27:00 -
[1643]
Originally by: Kuzim Blaky'all
Edited by: Kuzim Blaky''all on 21/11/2009 04:44:11
Yo momma ship be all shes worth
since a day a dawg momma ship firs give birth
she ain lose she value, she still worth a bunch
even tho da ccp posse almost cost crunch
the value, teh cost, the thins what go in
when a dawg be a momma ship makin'
but ain no word on bufin up re-re crew
since ccp posse gave a dawg salvager 2
all a dawg need to make him chill
is bad dawgs to pay they silence tax bill
but dawg, somtims someone be flying big boat
an top dawgs, in they ship, be mad as a goat
when a posse, be a viking, cant figure out
what a dawg do, it makes payin dawgs shout
so dig it dawg, i jus got a message:
when a senate make a bill, a dawg commit to its passage
when da posse who pay
an play
all the day
an a bigger dawg say
ok
to him death ray
an all dawgs else, who had time to test
say "Dawg dig it, all da work you do? is da best!"
jus let it happen, water under a bridge
we be chill again in no time
like we be in a frige
in short dawg, make da reaper touff
49,1455 word up
even this makes more sense than nozh's blog.
|
Strabo44
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 06:49:00 -
[1644]
Originally by: John MacCoy
Edited by: John MacCoy on 21/11/2009 04:25:10
Cancel Dominion.
There I said it.
This whole thing is a shambles. You dont have a clue what you're doing anymore. You had changes that everyone loved and because everyone loved them you thought something was wrong therefore they had to be changed. You then realised that everyone hated the newer changes so you then made even more changes that everyone hated. Now everyone is really p****d so you decide to reverse all changes to one thing and completely mess up the other changes to something that resembles the defence of luxemburg in World War Two.
Anyone else seeing this?
Come on CCP, listen to us, Please. We are the players. We play the game. We know how is it to be played. We know what makes us happy and what really sucks. Is it really that hard to listen to the people that basically pay you? Come on!
Page 49
Post 1454
Wow, agreeing with an atlas guy now.
|
Flaming Lemming
Caldari
Puppeteer Press
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 07:02:00 -
[1645]
Originally by: John MacCoy
Edited by: John MacCoy on 21/11/2009 04:25:10
Cancel Dominion.
There I said it.
This whole thing is a shambles. You dont have a clue what you're doing anymore. You had changes that everyone loved and because everyone loved them you thought something was wrong therefore they had to be changed. You then realised that everyone hated the newer changes so you then made even more changes that everyone hated. Now everyone is really p****d so you decide to reverse all changes to one thing and completely mess up the other changes to something that resembles the defence of luxemburg in World War Two.
Anyone else seeing this?
Come on CCP, listen to us, Please. We are the players. We play the game. We know how is it to be played. We know what makes us happy and what really sucks. Is it really that hard to listen to the people that basically pay you? Come on!
Page 49
Post 1454
I endorse that message..except it was only post 1441 now. What gives?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Deleting posts is non-constructive
Disagreement is constructive
You can have a discussion or you can have censorship, they are mutually exclusive |
Merlay Alesek
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 07:03:00 -
[1646]
Ok, so the capital battlefield. How should it look? Just some idea about what could be done. :)
Dreadnaughts = Anti-Structure. It should suck against anything else basically. Meaning more or less no damage in sieged mode to moving ships.
Carriers = Smaller fleet support hub. Central ships in capital warfare. Gives fleet bonuses, remote repair, fighters for both subcapital and capital support/dps. Very good as is.
Combat Carriers/Supercarriers/Tier 3 Carrier = A smaller anti capital specialized ship. Bigger and meaner than the carrier, but not nearly as good as the titan. This should be terrible against subcapital ships. (replaces current mothership/supercarrier graphics). This ship should be able to dock, but not have remote repair abilties or massive EHP.
Motherships = Fleet hubs. A new ship graphic design. Clone Vat, Jump Bridge, ECM Burst, fleet bonuses, maintanance deck, ship docking, very long range jump drive/fleet jumping. Something like this. Give people the option to pick either supercarrier or mothership for current mothership pilots. New skill for this ship. Not very dps oriented, but almost required/fantastic asset for large fleets.
Titans = Anti-capital capital ship. This monster destroys capital ships efficiently. Great doomsday and great dps against capships, terrible against subcapital. No jump bridge or clone vat bay.
|
Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
Burning Horizons
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 07:12:00 -
[1647]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Stuff
Thanks for listening
CCP Hammerhead
Lead Game Designer
We appreciate you replying.
However if the blog was a collaboration of a team, how could they possibly miss that you can't target pain supercaps and sieged Dreadnoughts. Surely someone on the team should have caught that.
Additionally Nozh states no changes to MOMs yet on SiSi they got the hp buff and jump range buff still but lost the other stuff, is that intended? Is that what we'll see in 2 weeks?
Why would this team revert the Nag back to its nerf status after it was unnerfed just a few months ago? The changing of its bonuses has you have them is counterproductive and leads to a ship with less damage potential than the other dreads. Why is it the race that requires the most training for their dread would have the least powerful one?
That's what you are missing in your balance equations I think. You should sit down and figure out using the recommended certificates for a ships use the training time considered minimum for competency of the various ships and then use that information in determining balance.
You limit your expansion potential by stating that every new ship class or ship must have a special niche. I suppose it helps with the engine and lag by limiting how many models have to be loaded but at the same time it limits expansion potential and leads to the many ship classes where we only have 1 ship in a class.
What made the mothership to powerful?
I know of no one that would use DCU on a mothership, so lets ignore that first. Was DPS still a problem? If so readjust it lower?
Was the problem it had to much of a tank, remove some hp, or lower its resists, or remove a low or medium slot.
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. -Mitnal |
Kanatta Jing
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 07:16:00 -
[1648]
I was kinda liking the new Super Carrier. Even though it was just a big carrier.
|
Dhanni Kerns
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 07:27:00 -
[1649]
Originally by: Kanatta Jing
I was kinda liking the new Super Carrier. Even though it was just a big carrier.
Yeah, the SUPERcarrier gave me a stiffy, but this new stuff...meh
|
S'T'A'L'K'E'R
Pirate Academy
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 07:29:00 -
[1650]
Originally by: John MacCoy
Edited by: John MacCoy on 21/11/2009 04:25:10
Cancel Dominion.
There I said it.
This whole thing is a shambles. You dont have a clue what you're doing anymore. You had changes that everyone loved and because everyone loved them you thought something was wrong therefore they had to be changed. You then realised that everyone hated the newer changes so you then made even more changes that everyone hated. Now everyone is really p****d so you decide to reverse all changes to one thing and completely mess up the other changes to something that resembles the defence of luxemburg in World War Two.
Dominion in 1st Dec is OK - new planets is ready, new sov system is ready too (i hope). Just cancel all capital changes, work at them and put it on TQ later - with New Eden stuff for example. Presented capital rebalance is clueless crap.
|
|
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Dhanni Kerns
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 07:34:00 -
[1651]
Originally by: S'T'A'L'K'E'R
Originally by: John MacCoy
Edited by: John MacCoy on 21/11/2009 04:25:10
Cancel Dominion.
There I said it.
This whole thing is a shambles. You dont have a clue what you're doing anymore. You had changes that everyone loved and because everyone loved them you thought something was wrong therefore they had to be changed. You then realised that everyone hated the newer changes so you then made even more changes that everyone hated. Now everyone is really p****d so you decide to reverse all changes to one thing and completely mess up the other changes to something that resembles the defence of luxemburg in World War Two.
Dominion in 1st Dec is OK - new planets is ready, new sov system is ready too (i hope). Just cancel all capital changes, work at them and put it on TQ later - with New Eden stuff for example. Presented capital rebalance is clueless crap.
CCP did nail the new mail interface, browser and planets though. The Sov system looks promising, but everything else is iffy, so I would err on caution for everything else.
|
Jonathan Priest
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 07:50:00 -
[1652]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
We werenÆt entirely happy with the direction and balancing of MOMs before development of Dominion began. Even during the SISI tests they still werenÆt falling into place for us. They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0. So we tried to tune them again to a point we felt was balanced, but then the role of the ships wasnÆt clear once we started to lower the damage. Instead, they started to blur with dreads and carriers.
Well, that's at least an explanation about what happened to motherships. The original changes would have been cool because they would have allowed alliances to take much bigger risks (and possibly lead to epic and decisive fights) by committing supercaps, but this won't make 0.0 warfare any worse at least. This was handled poorly though.
What about the changes to capital missiles and the naglfar? Have you looked at the effect split weapons have on damage with X damage mods fit vs single weapon dreads with X damage mods fit? Have you looked at capital missile damage against motherships, carriers, dreads and even titans when in siege?
Originally by: Eheufaucan
Damage reduction because of the high eploxions radius:
Naglfar 27%
Revelation 24%
Moros 23%
Phoenix 21%
Damage reduction because of the slow explosion velocity:
(numbers in brackets are the damage reduction if the ship uses a T2 100mn AB and a T2 Overdrive)
Ragnarok 18% (33%)
Erebus 2%
Avatar full damage (10%)
Leviathan full damage (5%)
Hel 36% (51%)
Nyx 26%
Aeon 15%
Wyvern 11%
Nidhoggur 85% (89%)
Thanatos 81%
Archon 81%
Chimera 78%
The AB thing probably won't happen because it only helps against the weaker two dreads, but still; If this is how it goes live I suppose its a good thing I'm training amarr... |
Nye Jaran
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 07:56:00 -
[1653]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Stuff...
I believe the problem, bigger than any gameplay issues, is that the "Why" of these changes has not yet been fully explained and the "What" left people upset over perceived ignorance (a la, TP'ing a sieged Dread). Also, while I'm sure it was unintended, Nozh's posts were off-target in that they seldom directly answered the most common questions. Instead, they attempted to explain the "Why" using examples already cited in the "What" (problematic considering people's reactions the first time through).
We all know that Eve players are extremely detail oriented. Unfortunately for CCP, that means a generic glossed over answer will only annoy the masses. It also means you'll have people picking over every detail and number, verifying them and testing alternate conditions. Instead of being given some basic concrete numbers, fluff answers were given. When actual information arrived, it was not an apples to apples comparison and it comprised of seemingly impractical real-life applications as dictated by current use. No explanation was giving for what appeared to be glaring errors in the data.
If the Devs felt that the previously tested changes were not acceptable for the current / future vision of Eve, that's fine. Detailed communication prior to the massive revisions that occurred recently would have eliminated some of the frustration. People would still have strong opinions of the new changes, but some of the vitriol would be missing, I believe.
In sum, a lack of communication (in the areas of timing, frequency, and depth of information) have made a bad situation significantly worse. Communication always seems to be the hardest thing to get right and among the easiest of things to screw up. Unfortunately, players feel they've experienced much of the latter and very little, if any, of the former.
PS: Please fix the Nag, I don't want to train Amarr.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 08:09:00 -
[1654]
Quote:
How can you allow system development to so substantially go off the rails as to have to admit failure and start again? Who is going to be held accopuntable for these horrendous misjudgments and pay the price?
You answered yourself.
If this was Blizzard with LolKalgan or Mythic with that other idiot whose name does not deserve to ever be mentioned or SOE, they'd stick to their ill tracks and would *anyway* implement their garbage.
CCP are capable to admit they borked it hard.
Quote:
Hmmm...Where did it go wrong? I think a "Hey guys, thanks for all the months of testing, but we just aren't happy with where we're heading" post, which hopefully contained "since we're unhappy, we're going in some new directions on Sisi, but don't freak, these aren't getting tossed into Dominion at the last moment" would have greatly eased tensions.
I think somewhere around the road, EvE team got asked to act with the DUST team (or the EvE programmers are put on DUST and others had to replace them to fill in the "hole") but without giving the former any time to actually prepare a good expansion.
So they are hastily tossing out what they come up in the little time they have to spare. Basically the story of my life.
Quote:
So i get the ship building, get a load of pimp mods etc for it.
You made the same mistake 95% of the RL traders do and then lose lots of money: you did not have patience to wait and gambled. And lost.
And now blame a third party (CCP) for your lack of prudence.
They borked it hard, you borked it hard.
Quote:
PS: Please fix the Nag, I don't want to train Amarr.
THIS
I am stuffed to be told "LOL you just had to not train an inferior race".
-
Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and
http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
|
Medidranda Livoga
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 08:30:00 -
[1655]
Would it be possible to just have skill called "Citadel launchers" which covers both Citadel torpedoes and cruises? If you go ahead with these changes you'll force another 1 month train on phoenix and naglfar pilots. Talk about kicking people who are down already.
And save Naglfar.
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Quadratko
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 08:35:00 -
[1656]
Quote:
In siege mode it's reduced to 12m/s and in my opinion thats a bigger problem than the high explosion radius.
The very big problem is explosion velosity equal 12 m/s.
For example every sprinter can to overtake it.
The problem is what CCP has going to sink with their's theoretical gameplay models without any practical and natural mechanics.
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Holy Cheater
Abyss Restless
Rebellion Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 08:48:00 -
[1657]
Yeah, let players sit in this undockable useless 15bn crap which can be blown up by a single titan for another year. A very intelligent design decision.
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Jordan Musgrat
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 09:05:00 -
[1658]
Originally by: Sertan Deras
Originally by: Ghuarran
Quote:
First, IÆd like to say that a single developer cannot come in and unilaterally change everything with no oversight. People are spewing a lot of hate at CCP Nozh but instead itÆs a case of shooting the messenger. He is just doing his job trying to improve the game and explain the reasoning for why changes were made. We work as a team and agree on the direction things are taking. We want the game to be balanced and fun for everyone to play. We also think about the future of the game and how it will be in years to come after our changes weighing the medium- and long-term repercussions.
I respect your position, I really do. But it's kind of disturbing that such a director could publish changes as sweeping as this, referencing mechanics that simply do not work in game, and have the team not notice or care. Surely a team of developers would notice that you cannot target paint supercaps, or seiged dreadnaughts. Shouldn't that thing have been caught?
If there is one thing I've learned about CCP, it's that they have very little regard for how the game actually works. Instead, they have a fantasy in their head about how they think it should work, and they project that fantasy on to the player base that actually plays the game. In their mind, you should be using target painters, and they are going to balance with that in mind.
That's a great way of putting it.
First, thank you Hammer for your response. It helps to know you're watching. Now, all there is left for you, is for you guys to start answering questions, and making sense. Mothership buffs were one of the ways you were selling this patch. Please don't allow them to stay useless for more months and years. Their role as anticapital killers is about as good as it will get. They would be very diverse, powerful, and a great tool that would actually be used in sov warfare.
Also, we need to know why the Phoenix is being balanced around target painters, which do not work in normal capital battles. Also, we need to know why the Naglfar is being nerfed so soon after its recent buff which made it attractive. Is this a "lol you didn't just train Naglfar did you? Because we're nerfing it again" troll?
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Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0... |
Julio Torres
Phantom Squad
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.21 09:05:00 -
[1659]
Thank you Hammer for posting a serious reply.
But I still want to see the issue with Titan's being addressed.
Our ships is still completely useless. While the original ideas
for Titan's stated for them to be on the front line, the last changes
to us took away all incentives to do anything beside sitting in a POS
doing Jump Bridges. And occasionally gank a Jump Freighter on a hostile
Cyno Gen Array.
With the new changes, nano-fit is still the way to go for a Titan.
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Eheufaucan
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2009.11.21 09:13:00 -
[1660]
CCP Nozh' comment at the Pandemic Legion killboard about a recent Titan takedown:
"I trust the Naglfars made use of their Target Painters and this battle happened at long range."
If this comment was really done by him at least he has some kind of humor.
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Jaron Terrkin
Biotronics Inc.
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.21 09:18:00 -
[1661]
Just release the HP boost and the jumprange boost and everybody will be satisfied till u work that Fighterbomberstuff out.So we are at least able to use our ships.
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easylad
Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2009.11.21 09:31:00 -
[1662]
CCP Nozh are you trying to kill eve?
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Khors
Amtek Inc
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Posted - 2009.11.21 09:36:00 -
[1663]
Originally by: Eheufaucan
CCP Nozh' comment at the Pandemic Legion killboard about a recent Titan takedown:
"I trust the Naglfars made use of their Target Painters and this battle happened at long range."
If this comment was really done by him at least he has some kind of humor.
Im confident in that nozh is out on PL's killboard out of all places, making jokes
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stylo11
Gallente
Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2009.11.21 09:54:00 -
[1664]
Edited by: stylo11 on 21/11/2009 09:54:19
Why should i buy a ship, that i spend billions and billions on for a nice fitting be able to be 1 shotted (litterly) by a titan, who just as to push 1 button.
The hp bonous, if nothing else was something that the supercarrier needs
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2009.11.21 10:10:00 -
[1665]
Well I can't really blame you for scrapping the changes, since your team clearly hasn't got a clue what you want to achieve with the capitals at this point. It seems pretty boring to me as it is now anyway, since you can count all the cap ship types with the fingers of your hand.
You might want to consider broadening the options people will have in your future plan. I know you want very specific roles for everything now, but i feel that with the current design mentality, we would have a maximum of 2 ships per every T1 class and only one battlecruiser. Even minor differences in ships can make them useful for different people and purposes. They don't have to be totally unique in all aspects to be worth implementing and flying. The wide variation in smaller ship classes is one of the best things about them. Just something to keep in mind, when designing your plan for the new capital warfare theater.
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easylad
Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2009.11.21 10:10:00 -
[1666]
CCP stop being childish with the deleting of posts oh BTW
CCP Nozh are you trying to kill eve?
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Zaiyo Modi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.21 10:12:00 -
[1667]
CCP Nozh "As we said, roles are what matter. With these changes we hope to achieve a more balanced battlefield and synergy between the capital ship classes."
Zaiyo Modi "Think of the synergies people."
---
Hi, Zaiyo Modi
You have received a notice regarding the post below which appeared in our forum on 21/11/2009 09:58:24. Spamming, as defined in our forum guidelines, is the repetitive posting of the same text or a nonsensical post; this behavior is not permitted on the forum. Continuing to disregard the guidelines may result in the suspension or cancellation of your posting privileges.
(...)
*Think of the synergies people.
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Aleutian II
Caldari
FireStar Inc
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Posted - 2009.11.21 10:29:00 -
[1668]
here is my opinion on supercarriers from what i have read so far
if the reason for removing fighter bombers is that to many of them caused, lag or to much damage or some other problem i cant think of then there is a simple solution
just increase there bandwidth so that you can only use 10-12 of them or another balanced number
give them the hit point boost at least because if you don't there easy killing for multiple titans
and for citadel missiles revert them back to current tq status, or have the siege and triage mods increase the signature radius of the dreads and carriers so it can hit for full damage on them, (i am not a capital pilot so i do not know if this last part is viable)
do not delay dominion because if you delay dominion till every person is happy then it will never be released
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Sannye
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Posted - 2009.11.21 10:39:00 -
[1669]
Why did my posts get deleted?
They were constructive, and could be used for the devs to figure out what went wrong.
And why wasnt i notified that my post were modded/deleted?
Fine, have it your way, i dont even want to enter a constructive dialoge with the devs anyways - why should we? It's YOU that gets payed, not us.
If you want to delete a troll, then do it by your own rules.
Trolling is the word used to describe a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting the players. Posts of this nature are disruptive and do not contribute to the sense of community we want for our forums.
There, as you can clearly see, Nozh is a troll by definition. Go delete his dev blog, his replyes and give him a bloody warning.
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Draahk Chimera
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.21 10:42:00 -
[1670]
I'm self destructing my phoenix on december 2. True story. I think it would be the best statement if most caldari and minnie pilots did this. Take out platinum insurance and self destruct your dread after Dominion nerfs the 2 worst dreads and keeps the 2 good ones the way they are. Then use the money to get a carrier or a rev.
And I'm signing in with the chorus here. Why did you remove the changes the entire community was happy with? Did you get a chock from having such a huge positive responce to an expansion for once?
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Darriele
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.21 10:46:00 -
[1671]
Edited by: Darriele on 21/11/2009 10:51:42
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Hi, everyone
We have been carefully watching this thread and I want to set the record straight on a few misconceptions.
First, IÆd like to say that a single developer cannot come in and unilaterally change everything with no oversight. People are spewing a lot of hate at CCP Nozh but instead itÆs a case of shooting the messenger. He is just doing his job trying to improve the game and explain the reasoning for why changes were made. We work as a team and agree on the direction things are taking. We want the game to be balanced and fun for everyone to play. We also think about the future of the game and how it will be in years to come after our changes weighing the medium- and long-term repercussions.
We werenÆt entirely happy with the direction and balancing of MOMs before development of Dominion began. Even during the SISI tests they still werenÆt falling into place for us. They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0. So we tried to tune them again to a point we felt was balanced, but then the role of the ships wasnÆt clear once we started to lower the damage. Instead, they started to blur with dreads and carriers.
You all made your voices clear with important feedback, we listened and reverted things back to like they are on TQ while we take more time to reassess. We could have tried to put out ôsomethingö just because we have been talking about it, but then we would be in a situation where players are getting into ships that might very well change again in a coming patch. Given the amount of work to get one of these we just didnÆt feel that was the right thing to do.
Stuff about Sisi.
Please remember that we are here to make a game that you all love to play. None of us comes to work thinking of ways to enrage the playerbase. As the Lead Game Designer, I take my responsibility seriously and that includes taking responsibility for any decisions made by our team. To me, EVE is much more than a job, itÆs something IÆm passionate about constantly improving. I promise you I want EVE to thrive just as much as you do.
Thanks for listening
CCP Hammerhead
Lead Game Designer
Someone correct me if I'm wrong. So, you basically wasted precious amount of time actually accomplishing nothing (regarding capitals) and also you succeded to "enrage" a good portion of eve playerbase in the process. Way to go.
I was gonna say something ugly about this: "They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0" , but I'm gonna say only this: tests on paper (and in lab) will always yield different results compared to real life usage. You reached a point where proposed "attributes" (as seen previously on Sisi) made a good impression and got "a little seal of approval" from majority of playerbase, but, I guess you got way too scared when you looked on paper results and those nice useless graphs.
Let us judge if "They were potentially too powerful" since we play the game, trust me, if your fears about "too powerful" proves to be true, nobody will have a grudge on you when trying to rebalance it, since you will get the feedback directly from us, the players who actually play this game.
Better throw the dead cat in our courtyard and make us happy instead of getting your courtyard dirty and your house filled with unnecessary expired tomatoes and eggs.
And probably you will be entitled to "I've told you so" too.
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Verifarita Goshiaku
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Posted - 2009.11.21 10:47:00 -
[1672]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Hi, everyone
We have been carefully watching this thread and I want to set the record straight on a few misconceptions.
First, IÆd like to say that a single developer cannot come in and unilaterally change everything with no oversight. People are spewing a lot of hate at CCP Nozh but instead itÆs a case of shooting the messenger. He is just doing his job trying to improve the game and explain the reasoning for why changes were made. We work as a team and agree on the direction things are taking. We want the game to be balanced and fun for everyone to play. We also think about the future of the game and how it will be in years to come after our changes weighing the medium- and long-term repercussions.
We werenÆt entirely happy with the direction and balancing of MOMs before development of Dominion began. Even during the SISI tests they still werenÆt falling into place for us. They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0. So we tried to tune them again to a point we felt was balanced, but then the role of the ships wasnÆt clear once we started to lower the damage. Instead, they started to blur with dreads and carriers.
You all made your voices clear with important feedback, we listened and reverted things back to like they are on TQ while we take more time to reassess. We could have tried to put out ôsomethingö just because we have been talking about it, but then we would be in a situation where players are getting into ships that might very well change again in a coming patch. Given the amount of work to get one of these we just didnÆt feel that was the right thing to do.
The other misconception I want to address is about our public test server. SISI is there so we can have as many people as possible looking for bugs. We think it best to put things out in the public as soon as possible regardless of whether or not itÆs final so we get more eyes on it. This just makes sense to us from a QA standpoint because EVE is an extremely complex piece of software. SISI isnÆt really meant to be a place to try new fittings, do FFA battles or preview upcoming features, although we know people use it for that and we really donÆt mind because more load on our test server helps us find bugs. ItÆs also not a guarantee as to what will be in the next expansion. There have been plenty of times when we dropped a feature that was partially complete on SISI. Arenas and storefronts are two recent examples. ItÆs highly probable that we like pulling features from a release even less than you do but sometimes it cannot be helped. So while supercarriers were on the test server and had gone through plenty of testing it still wasnÆt guaranteed to end up on TQ in that exact state. Only what lands on TQ on patch day is guaranteed.
Please remember that we are here to make a game that you all love to play. None of us comes to work thinking of ways to enrage the playerbase. As the Lead Game Designer, I take my responsibility seriously and that includes taking responsibility for any decisions made by our team. To me, EVE is much more than a job, itÆs something IÆm passionate about constantly improving. I promise you I want EVE to thrive just as much as you do.
Thanks for listening
CCP Hammerhead
Lead Game Designer
Thanks for replying! Can we in the future maybe get more DEV responses to hot topics like this? From the perspective of a normal working day, replying within a day after a threadnought like this appears may seem "fast", but from our perspective it's like waiting forever.
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New ones
Caldari
Koln united
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Posted - 2009.11.21 11:00:00 -
[1673]
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1217073/page/50#1492
page 50 there, with 1500 replys...
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Astal Atlar
Caldari
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.21 11:08:00 -
[1674]
Quote:
Just do this. Motherships Get Dread Jump range. Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier. Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity). Motherships get a EHP buff. Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+ Motherships cant dock Motherships dont get build costs reduced Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage. Titans Get 5minute DD timer. Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan. Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types). Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types. Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this. Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base. This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea. Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something. You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are. You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced. Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
listen this man he speaks the truth!
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BanMeAgainPlz
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Posted - 2009.11.21 11:16:00 -
[1675]
Edited by: BanMeAgainPlz on 21/11/2009 11:15:39
Originally by: New ones
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1217073/page/50#1492
page 50 there, with 1500 replys...
It's actually 56 pages long and almost 1700 replies but 200 seem to be missing along with 8 of mine
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1217073/page/56
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Mashashige
Minmatar
Eternal Perseverance
Hellstrome Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.21 11:17:00 -
[1676]
Originally by: New ones
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1217073/page/50#1492
page 50 there, with 1500 replys...
AFAIK eve search caches the forums every 10-15 minutes, meaning that any posts deleted between caches will not show up on eve search - considering that people who gave post numbers showed tens of posts between original post number and new post number, and the fact that CCP Zyru (Z-man) is p. damn good at deleting trolls/serious posts/whatever he wants in under 3 minutes (I checked when we were fighting him in the fight of see and pee - free mitnal!), you could assume that 100 or more posts have been deleted since the thread started. Most were prob trolls, but regardless, there is strong moderation at work - the question of whether we are turning in a fascist forum community or not can't be answered by me though.
Anyhow, just my 2c.
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"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." |
RoCkEt X
Hostile.
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Posted - 2009.11.21 11:20:00 -
[1677]
current sisi build is fairly well balanced i think, (at least for momships)
fighterbombers limited to 15 due to bandwidth, but can still launch 20 fighters with carrier 5.
ironically however, the fighterbombers @ 15 is pure fluke, considering the MS's have now had thier original bandwidth restored.
also, fighterbombers are now ineffective on sisi (damage has been reduced to 0.0):
"11:19:19 Combat Compact Purgatory Torpedo I belonging to RoCkEt X hits you, doing 0.0 damage."
**[.-H-.] Hostile.**
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Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.21 11:22:00 -
[1678]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Hi, everyone
Damage Control
Thanks for listening
CCP Hammerhead
Lead Game Designer
First of all, thank-you for the response. The fact that getting a response from a Dev seemed to take ages and the responses that we're given were more or less total nonsense was really worrying.
On to the changes. If motherships were introduced with the jump range extension and HP, I see them in no way being over powered and hardly game breaking.Given the current changes on SiSi any confirmation on if those will stay or not would be greatly appreciated.
As for dreadnoughts, the nerf to missile sig radius was the worst justified change I've seen in my 3 years in game. Pointing to target painters as a valid tactic in capital fights suggests to an incompetence and lack of understanding of game mechanics and no real reason has yet been given for the change. Likewise, the Naglfar(soon to be Naglfail again) change seems harsh and uncalled for. Minimitar pilots pushed for years for that change and within months of it being implemented it was removed, not only to pre-boost levels, but actually worse than in its previous fail configuration.
After reading all 50 posts(not counting deleted posts, of those not sure how many were constructive and how many were free Abathur), After the initial outcry against shelving motherships and concerns that they would be put on the back burner once again, most of the posts were concerned with the general lack of understanding of game mechanics. this was further fueled by the Nozh's response which was condescending and again featured target painters being utilized against EWar immune ships as a justification for damage changes and 5 DCU mothership setups for damage comparison. The general lack of understanding was frightening for myself, personally, as well as most other 0.0 players who were experienced capital pilots.
In closing, the way that the information about these large changes were being made could have been handled much better. There are still unanswered questions and capital launchers and Naglfars are desperately in need of attention as they currently are on Sisi. It is good to see that at least some Devs are still watching this.
-Sarah Norbulk
The Initiative.
P.S. Pls don't delete this post.
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Zxmagus
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Posted - 2009.11.21 11:27:00 -
[1679]
Delay the patch please i don't care about waiting a few more months been playing eve for years i'd much rather have everything 80% of the way there rather then a half assed patch of features that don't work right.
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Tappits
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.21 11:29:00 -
[1680]
Originally by: Sidus Sarmiang
The changes to titans and motherships had the potential to change this around. With a tier of ships above dreadnaughts, the possibility of escalating a conflict above a mere capship fight became possible. Imagine an enemy is sieging your POS. You have engaged their subcap fleet, they responded by bringing in dreadnaughts and carriers, you countered them with a hotdrop. You have a slight advantage, but one large enough to win.
Up until the original plan for Dominion, that would've been the end of it. You would win the battle, an important battle, but odds are the war would continue. The titan and mothership changes introduced a new possibility and level to the conflict. Instead of the battle ending with your victory, another cyno opens and suddenly five of the enemy's titans and twice that many motherships supported by repping carriers drop onto the field. The risks and the rewards of the battle have changed. The possibility to lose your dreadnaught fleet in a spectacular manner now exists, but in return the enemy has given you the chance to destroy a good chunk of their supercapital force, which, due to the cost and long construction time, compounded by the lack of sov 4, would effectively destroy them. In order to take advantage of this, though, you have to risk your own supercapitals and the possibility of crippling your own alliance.
This is a hell of a lot more interesting than any type of warfare before it.
You had a chance to give us this.
Instead you want to give us super-rorquals and 18 billion isk titan-bait POS-huggers.
Just fing epic post right there.......................
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I fail At forums
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New ones
Caldari
Koln united
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Posted - 2009.11.21 11:30:00 -
[1681]
Nozh made us a nice drawing to inform us why he changed stuff:
http://i48.tinypic.com/24fyzuo.jpg
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Terianna Eri
Amarr
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2009.11.21 11:31:00 -
[1682]
Edited by: Terianna Eri on 21/11/2009 11:33:03
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Hi, everyone
Damage Control
Thanks for listening
CCP Hammerhead
Lead Game Designer
Hi, Hammer
When you make huge sweeping changes to what the entire playerbase had good reason to believe was going live to TQ, and these changes will pretty much effect all capital warfare everywhere, can you please make this kind of post before you make the change and take feedback on it, instead of after two 50+ page threadnaughts?
Also if you don't want us to shoot the messenger you should probably send a messenger who doesn't ignore the biggest concerns and makes fundamental mistakes on how the topic at hand works, because CCP Nozh is not just a messenger, unless of course you're having dev blogs delivered by people who have nothing to do with the changes presented, which would be silly.
P.S. You should probably do something for poor the Naglfar pilots you keep messing up :(
P.P.S. Truthfully thank you for the post but the claim "yeah we didn't like the way motherships were shaping up on sisi" is kind of a poor explanation
P.P.P.S. Seriously, why did you shaft the Nag and Phoenix pilots so hard? :(
Thanks for listening
Terianna Eri
Senex Legio
________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito
PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
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lord cyrez
Caldari
Orbis Aeternitas
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Posted - 2009.11.21 11:32:00 -
[1683]
Originally by: Eheufaucan
@lord cyrez
Nice work. I did some calculations and test runs on Sisi and get the same results (except I didn't look at the Claymore and Ragnarok Sig Bonuses). Just one thing: nearly all Caldari pilots use shield tanks and with shield extender rigs your sig radius goes up. In a real fight the Phoenix sig radius would be around 2000 so the damage reduction from citadel torps would only be around 11% and not 21%.
true, didnt think about fittings since i wanted to show how flawed they are to begin with.
Originally by: Eheufaucan
I would never ever drop 2-3 tank slots on that thing just to fit painters.
amen.
Originally by: Eheufaucan
You've only looked at the explosions radius but the situation is even worse. The range of your Citadel Torps is limited to 37km and you can't switch to lange range ammo like turret dreads. But the biggest problem is the explosion velocity. In siege mode it's reduced to 12m/s and in my opinion thats a bigger problem than the high explosion radius.
indeed
i was pretty shocked about the most obvious - the extremely huge explosion radius, because my first glance was at dreads. but taking carriers into account and that most of them aren't using triage, thus moving, didnt come to mind.
Originally by: Eheufaucan
Damage reduction because of the slow explosion velocity:
Nidhoggur 85%
Thanatos 81%
Archon 81%
Chimera 78%
now its really getting ludicrous. carriers speed-tanking 80%+ torp damage. dreads sig-tanking 25% torp damage. even motherships and (partly) titans speedtanking them.
combining your post and my post (page 45, pending more deletions) i get a feeling that even citadel cruise will have a serious damage reduction on moving carriers - but i'm too appalled already, not daring to crunch the numbers on that.
so the only thing left where torps are working "normally": TCUs, SBUs and IHUBs. at least those wont run away
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H Zebra
Zebra Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.21 11:35:00 -
[1684]
so they are NOT changing any capitals in dom?
or are they SCREWING over dreads in the name of balance still?
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Tappits
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.21 11:44:00 -
[1685]
Originally by: New ones
Nozh made us a nice drawing to inform us why he changed stuff:
http://i48.tinypic.com/24fyzuo.jpg
I LOLed
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I fail At forums
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Mihali
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.21 11:46:00 -
[1686]
Why the deleted posts?
The days testing on Sisi & the feedback threads on this forum is all for nothing is what's making people mad. We finally thought "Hey, CCP finally wants us to have some input" & then do nothing. Then one of the game designers embarrasses himself about not knowing about simple game mechanics any newb in 0.0 gets taught. Heck even empire dwellers know that little piece of information.
You guys really do need better PR people or at least someone who knows what they are talking about.
Stop messing with my slack, pinko. Praise Bob! |
Tappits
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.21 11:50:00 -
[1687]
Edited by: Tappits on 21/11/2009 11:49:51
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Hi, everyone
Thanks for listening
CCP Hammerhead
Lead Game Designer
Your post did not realy help.
ST-O here i come
1493
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I fail At forums
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Astal Atlar
Caldari
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.21 11:52:00 -
[1688]
At last answer from ccp, but something bugs me,why should be a 10-12 bil ship ovepowered doing 8000dps,as with the curent dread and carier numbers they will melt,and the total number of ms is low at all you don't have 100 ms fleet and they take ton of money to fit.
And yeah returning back to before dominion,you make ms vulnerable to 2 dd cool...
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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.11.21 11:57:00 -
[1689]
Originally by: Mihali
The days testing on Sisi & the feedback threads on this forum is all for nothing is what's making people mad. We finally thought "Hey, CCP finally wants us to have some input" & then do nothing. Then one of the game designers embarrasses himself about not knowing about simple game mechanics any newb in 0.0 gets taught. Heck even empire dwellers know that little piece of information.
You guys really do need better PR people or at least someone who knows what they are talking about.
And to make it worse it was not just one noob-dev but a WHOLE TEAM of devs! At least according to Hammerhead.
So, not only a single dev do not know the most basic mechanics and gameplay of capitals but a whole team of devs are completely ingnorant of gameplay in Eve.
And yet, even with those huge gaping hole of missing knowledge the still delete posts and just discards weeks and months of valuable feedback.
Feedback that the devs never could produce themselves because the - obviously - have no clue about their own game and how it is played!
Waaaaaaay to go!
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cpu939
Gallente
Volatile Nature
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.21 12:02:00 -
[1690]
Originally by: H Zebra
so they are NOT changing any capitals in dom?
or are they SCREWING over dreads in the name of balance still?
sorry mate dread changes are going ahead ccp are making us fight with more range i personal feel it is so it looks good but that puts the caldari and minmatar at the disadvantage due to missile use.
Now on to the next part it's now clear that ccp will not change there minds on the ms and dread changes but i would live to invite ccp, goons, -a-, sys-k, cven, se, PL, IT, Rzr, MM, MH, Atlas, Tri, basicly all the big alliances in the game to have a voice talk about changes to the ms that we might get out in the next 6 months would ccp and the rest of you guys be willing to do this, let move forward together, btw in the metting i think ccp nozh and hammer should both be there let us here your point and let us tell you our points. voice coms would make this easyer as text can be misread and also allows you to give more details. this could take place on sisi or tq, i leave this to ccp show us you value us the players and come forth and accept this invite.
0101011 001101111 011011000 110000101110100 01101001011011000 1100101001000000 1001110011000010 11101000111010101 11001001100101
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The Hag
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Posted - 2009.11.21 12:24:00 -
[1691]
Originally by: BanMeAgainPlz
Edited by: BanMeAgainPlz on 21/11/2009 11:17:00
Originally by: New ones
page 50 there, with 1500 replys...
It's actually 56 pages long and almost 1700 replies but 200 seem to be missing along with 8 of mine
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1217073/page/56
Post [1481]
CCP see this as a troll post. All posts that do not agree with their current stand are troll posts and posters will be subject to a ban.
Originally by: Sidus Sarmiang
The changes to titans and motherships had the potential to change this around. With a tier of ships above dreadnaughts, the possibility of escalating a conflict above a mere capship fight became possible. Imagine an enemy is sieging your POS. You have engaged their subcap fleet, they responded by bringing in dreadnaughts and carriers, you countered them with a hotdrop. You have a slight advantage, but one large enough to win.
Up until the original plan for Dominion, that would've been the end of it. You would win the battle, an important battle, but odds are the war would continue. The titan and mothership changes introduced a new possibility and level to the conflict. Instead of the battle ending with your victory, another cyno opens and suddenly five of the enemy's titans and twice that many motherships supported by repping carriers drop onto the field. The risks and the rewards of the battle have changed. The possibility to lose your dreadnaught fleet in a spectacular manner now exists, but in return the enemy has given you the chance to destroy a good chunk of their supercapital force, which, due to the cost and long construction time, compounded by the lack of sov 4, would effectively destroy them. In order to take advantage of this, though, you have to risk your own supercapitals and the possibility of crippling your own alliance.
This is a hell of a lot more interesting than any type of warfare before it.
You had a chance to give us this.
Instead you want to give us super-rorquals and 18 billion isk titan-bait POS-huggers.
One of the best posts in the thread, unfortunately CCP see this as a troll post and it runs the risk of getting deleted.
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H Zebra
Zebra Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.21 12:25:00 -
[1692]
Originally by: cpu939
Originally by: H Zebra
so they are NOT changing any capitals in dom?
or are they SCREWING over dreads in the name of balance still?
sorry mate dread changes are going ahead ccp are making us fight with more range i personal feel it is so it looks good but that puts the caldari and minmatar at the disadvantage due to missile use.
Now on to the next part it's now clear that ccp will not change there minds on the ms and dread changes but i would live to invite ccp, goons, -a-, sys-k, cven, se, PL, IT, Rzr, MM, MH, Atlas, Tri, basicly all the big alliances in the game to have a voice talk about changes to the ms that we might get out in the next 6 months would ccp and the rest of you guys be willing to do this, let move forward together, btw in the metting i think ccp nozh and hammer should both be there let us here your point and let us tell you our points. voice coms would make this easyer as text can be misread and also allows you to give more details. this could take place on sisi or tq, i leave this to ccp show us you value us the players and come forth and accept this invite.
ty for info. my concern is with teh moros. my dread on sisi is showing a lowed damage mod than teh one on tq when fitted with rail's.. as i read somewhere the rails damage mod was being raised not lowered
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Rough Necks
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Posted - 2009.11.21 12:49:00 -
[1693]
Originally by: Draahk Chimera
And I'm signing in with the chorus here. Why did you remove the changes the entire community was happy with? Did you get a chock from having such a huge positive responce to an expansion for once?
I think that must actually have been it. I think it was the first expansion I saw where bascially everybody was liking the general direction of the changes and discussion was only about details. So they nerfed it all last minute and now we are back to the usual pre-expansion threadnaughts of unhappy players that they are used to. And they probably feel that's a good thing.
[1501]
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ShadowDraqon
The Quantum Company
Independent Faction
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Posted - 2009.11.21 12:50:00 -
[1694]
Ok, I think I know what happened here...
- CCP prepares an expansion.
- Some Players whine.
- CCP makes changes to expansion.
- Other Players whine.
- CCP changes the changes.
- More Players whine.
- CCP tries to get whine under control.
- Some Players whine even more while others whine about the whine while others whine about assault frigates.
- Changes to the Changes gets changed.
- Players are confused.
- CCP is confused.
- More Changes to changed Changes are changed.
- Everyone is confused.
- More whine is whined.
- Everyone is frustrated
Business as usual, I think...
~ MED-SEC ~
AND
The Blatantly Obvious |
Lith Erivi
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.21 12:53:00 -
[1695]
CCP if you want to test caps instead of inviting any random person who can log into an account to suggest balance tips how about invite the people who actually live in 0.0 to come and fight it out under your scenarios?
Maybe that's too organized and constructive for yall.
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fuze
Gallente
Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2009.11.21 13:09:00 -
[1696]
Originally by: ShadowDraqon
Business as usual, I think...
No, not this time.
They made a series of bad calls which can happen. It in fact happens with every expansion.
But when you start changing things on a whim and do not care to explain them properly it's quite bad.
They aren't only failing to understand the game mechanics at basic levels but also failing at communication at basic levels.
CCP always is extremely stubborn in admitting mistakes and when they start gagging people who indicate these mistakes it's just causing more anger.
This is not how you treat people in general.
Be a man (woman) and admit you made mistakes and say you're sorry and do your utmost best never to make that mistake again.
If you cannot grasp this concept there is no reason for people dealing with you whatsoever.
Treat people the same way you like to be treated.
Originally by: The Mittani
Where's the excellence?
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Zaiyo Modi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.21 13:27:00 -
[1697]
Due to the 4000 char limit, and a 5 min posting limit, I had to cut my text down to this:
The performative ways of game development:
Things get absurd, at a point when a game change and people might feel that something changed for the worse. Anyone can surely accept a fair change, as when unintended circumstances favor someone on the expense of others, by cheating, exploits or something not thought possible.
It is important to understand the notion of something being "intended", however one should here not confuse an intention with forms of idealism, as in applying anything reflexive to justify an intent. Obviously, if people cannot agree to what is an "intended game mechanics", any discussion regarding it will probably be messed up, as the outcome perhaps be accidental or biased perchance justified with another set ideals introduced with a reflexive move later on.
It is like when a state says that it is right because it is a state having certain rules. A tautological condition, making no fair sense other than what is implicitly stated.
With life in general being or having become a complex endeavour, the true nature so to speak about a performative game development, is not without help from the people who play a game and give feedback. Even when someone is developing a game unaffected by player feedback, surely they have the players in mind, trying to tailor to an envisioned player experience.
So, when developers and players get involved, by making comments or present critique about game for the better, they should imo have clear ideas about what it meant by "balance" or by "balancing" something. Even if a context is put forth by a developer or player to explain an intention for wanting "balance" (about something), what might missing is the tragic cirumstance, which ought to be the sensible part of making a decision for "balancing" something in the first place.
Balancing for the sake of balancing does not make much sense, unless we all agree to what we want with the game mechanics. Here is the ultimate problem of developing a game; "What do we want with the game mechanics?". Sure, a developer might keep information about future development a secret from the players, but alienation and absurdity will probably ensue. It get worse when such a condition of absurdity is excused by expressed intentions alone, and then people will/might find themselves offended.
I don't know what the developers have in mind, but I worry that the founding concepts of Eve, end up pitting players against eachother, with the players having differing concepts of what is sensible game-mechanics. Some will be focused on options with tactics, while others look for damage per second or knee-jerk reactions to an unfavourable situation.
I would like to see a change, in the sense of evolvement of "pacing" or "options" for game mechanics. Else I fear that the devs will juggle ship stats as they like, in a misunderstood attempt to recreate a "balance" that never was meant be be. It shouln't be a "balance" of a dynamic economy, alienating players by keeping the system going with proclaimed intention of "balance", but a "balance" of sensible ecology. By making sense without shaking parts of the big sandbox every now and then.
Conclusion: I worry that Eve Online has some underlying issues that have been there for some time, and is not limited to upcoming changes for Dominion. And I don't like it.
If anyone has some other opinion of what is perceived as the basic working of Eve online, I would like to hear about it. I might of course have overlooked something.
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Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.11.21 13:30:00 -
[1698]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Hi, everyone
We werenÆt entirely happy with the direction and balancing of MOMs before development of Dominion began. Even during the SISI tests they still werenÆt falling into place for us. They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0. So we tried to tune them again to a point we felt was balanced, but then the role of the ships wasnÆt clear once we started to lower the damage. Instead, they started to blur with dreads and carriers.
You all made your voices clear with important feedback, we listened and reverted things back to like they are on TQ while we take more time to reassess. We could have tried to put out ôsomethingö just because we have been talking about it, but then we would be in a situation where players are getting into ships that might very well change again in a coming patch. Given the amount of work to get one of these we just didnÆt feel that was the right thing to do.
Thanks for listening
CCP Hammerhead
Lead Game Designer
All the more reason to do "something" with the mothership so it doesnt have to sit idle for 6 more months and be useless. At the very least give it some survivability with the HP buff originally made so it can survive on the battlefield. Thre rest of the stuff can get worked out later. |
Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.11.21 13:39:00 -
[1699]
Edited by: Battle Tested on 21/11/2009 13:42:17
Edited by: Battle Tested on 21/11/2009 13:41:31
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
Everyone quiet and stop the hate for 5 mins
Lets review ----
motherships are not being changed they are going to be like tq motherships atm.
-- not mentioned, CCP never said they werent getting an hp buff, you all are just assuming they wont. So shush, wait for them to give more details.
second,
-- This is not the place to rant about nag, moros, and phoenix, test server feed back is in a different forum.
third
Nozh is a messenger, so that means he drew the short straw when or lost a bet to the rest of the staff about announcing the changes. Nozh thank you for taking it in stride, you deserve a beer, especially after all the crap we have put you through.
4th
Hammer, you did a fairly good job of explaining everything, but when you answered many of the questions you left a lot more to be asked, you may want to make a long detailed dev blog about all the capital changes and why.
5th,
everyone stop posting for a while, its friday, go get a beer, drink a little bit and relax, calm down and come back to the forums and make some intelligent post.
Everyone, just needs to relax seriously. Our testing was not in vain, we just showed to them there might be several balancing issues that could result.
We have learned though from press releases and articles that show how much players care about their game.
CCP devs, thank you for taking the hate storm in stride, you guys do put up with a lot. It's just going to take some time for the anger to calm down and we can get on with the release of dominion.
Once again everyone stop the hate, let the devs and gms spend time working on dominion rather than be forum police.
-OH
-we arent assuming ****....It was specifically stated "NO CHANGES WILL BE MADE TO MOTHERSHIPS"
- This is the place to complain about all changes to capital ships...notice the OP description?
- All Hammer did was attempt damage control and prevent more flaming of Nozh |
Ammath
Amarr
Burning Technologies
Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2009.11.21 13:47:00 -
[1700]
Edited by: Ammath on 21/11/2009 13:51:04
What I want to know from CCP, and this is a reasonable request is a Blog post from CCP stating what they view the roles of each class of ship in EvE should be. For the purposes of this discussion I would like to see what they want Carriers, Dreadnaughts, Motherships, and Titans roles should be.
It is ok if they are not happy with the current implementations of any. But I think the community would like to know the VISION CCP has for these classes of ships, the steps of how to get there obviously require testing and balance.
What is not "o"k is statements like "titans shouldn't be direct damage dealers, so we are going to give them all kinds of crazy direct damage buffs and a massive EHP boost so they can stay on the field and fight longer" The dichotomy of that statement is mind-blowing. You might as well say "Motherships should be fleet support ships so we will be giving them the old Titan AOE doomsday" it makes about the same sense.
Basically guys this is project management 101 here. Define the vision, identify the issues, make the changes, test, do QA, and release. But further breaking one class of ships (titans from their alleged vision of them), re-balancing another class (dreads), and doing nothing for carriers, nor motherships will NOT achieve the balance nor vision you seem to have for capital ships in EvE. Although to be fair this vision has not been formally spelled out so we are going of anecdotes and one-liners from specific devs.
Honestly guys, if you want to do a redux of Capital Ship balance in EvE you need to do them ALL at once or you will never get the real-world data to tweak things properly. All you are doing is creating more mismatches.
Lets just see a simple vision matrix from CCP on combat caps..
example:
Ship Class, general role, secondary role, preferred target
Carrier - Fleet Support - Anti-Sub capital - Battleships/Support
Carriers are designed to be large fleet support ships, which still have significant combat capabilities with their Fighters and Drones to provide support for fleets against sub-capital targets.
The above is just an example... CCP could you please do this for us so we know the intended vision of these classes? If you feel a class doesn't meet your vision, explain why.
For the record for this release Motherships should get the HP boost, and jump-range boost. Those frankly are needed no matter what and have been a problem since 2006.
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glassmanipulator
Gladiators of Rage
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.21 13:49:00 -
[1701]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
We werenÆt entirely happy with the direction and balancing of MOMs before development of Dominion began. Even during the SISI tests they still werenÆt falling into place for us.
It's our game too, without US you would have nothing to develop. What you devs want and what people that actually play the game want are sometimes two very different things.
I agree with leaving the HP buff on mom's to fit in with the new dd's. Leave the rest for now till you guys can get an idea of what your really doing. Try actually playing the game or talking/listening to people that do.
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Cachoo
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.21 13:49:00 -
[1702]
its so sad to see how CCP treats there paying customers ... give a response to this..
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Bonny Lee
Caldari
The Guardian Agency
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.21 13:59:00 -
[1703]
Originally by: Cachoo
its so sad to see how CCP treats there paying customers ... give a response to this..
This whole thread is sad. It makes me ill reading all that ****ty whine.
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Fufinski
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Posted - 2009.11.21 14:13:00 -
[1704]
Originally by: Bonny Lee
Originally by: Cachoo
its so sad to see how CCP treats there paying customers ... give a response to this..
This whole thread is sad. It makes me ill reading all that ****ty whine.
It's only normal that you guys would want to defend incompetence.
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Fars
Gallente
Roman Sandals
THAT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.21 14:18:00 -
[1705]
When you gank a noob at a gate camp there is a happy warm feeling in your belly.
When that person *****es and cries in local, there is a thicker even warmer feeling that engulfs your whole body.
When they come in their best war ship to come fight you and you eat them like cake, and they start crying again, that feeling becomes a happiness that spreads across your entire body.
What the devs must feel after writing these beautiful gankblogs, must be close to godhood. (Judging from the amount of tears, not the quality of the devblogs, which frankly I think have been well written and informative.)
PS constructive criticism does not feed the devgods tummies like tears and cries. Maybe yer doin' it wrong!
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Micky Nozawa
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Posted - 2009.11.21 14:23:00 -
[1706]
Originally by: Fars
When you gank a noob at a gate camp there is a happy warm feeling in your belly.
When that person *****es and cries in local, there is a thicker even warmer feeling that engulfs your whole body.
When they come in their best war ship to come fight you and you eat them like cake, and they start crying again, that feeling becomes a happiness that spreads across your entire body.
And when you turn off your pc all the happiness disappear and the real life just keep going Ron Jeremy on your butt
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sdchew
Gallente
Jazz Associates
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Posted - 2009.11.21 14:24:00 -
[1707]
I got an idea CCP. Why don't you STOP doing any Capital Ship changes for Dominion. Don't do anything for Titans, Moms, Nags, Cap Cruise Missiles, etc. Just leave it like it is on TQ for now.
Win for CCP as you can concentrate on the Sov changes
Win for CCP as you can stop the all crap going on the forums.
And once CCP Abathur is done with all the Sov stuff, re-assign him back to sort this all out. Call it Dominion 1.1
Just my 2 cents.
The day that EVE is truly bug-free, the EVE Gate will probably go super nova and kill us all. |
Darriele
Minmatar
THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY
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Posted - 2009.11.21 14:51:00 -
[1708]
Originally by: sdchew
I got an idea CCP. Why don't you STOP doing any Capital Ship changes for Dominion. Don't do anything for Titans, Moms, Nags, Cap Cruise Missiles, etc. Just leave it like it is on TQ for now.
Win for CCP as you can concentrate on the Sov changes
Win for CCP as you can stop the all crap going on the forums.
And once CCP Abathur is done with all the Sov stuff, re-assign him back to sort this all out. Call it Dominion 1.1
Just my 2 cents.
Your 2 cents aren't that worthy, not in EU. Only thing that must be changed , and everyone agrees on so far , is the titan class.
Mom's maybe, dreads wth, why is the Nag vertical and also totally useless every time they try to balance it?
---------------------------------------
Posts disappears , ideas live forever.
Stop deleting posts from this thread http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1217073
It's Futile! |
5pinDizzy
Amarr
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.11.21 14:52:00 -
[1709]
I don't know why they have problems working out a role for the mothership.
It's a mothership, that itself to me implies, low offensive capability but pretty much the ultimate fleet support and logistics vessel.
For example off the top of my head;
Some new module that drops a protection bubble with limited hp that can be used as emergency dd protection and that small ships can hide in?
Rapid dock and undock repair and resupply for frigates?
Maybe It should be able to move a whole fleet with it and cyno them further then any other ship is capable of?
Maybe it should give bonuses like a command ship on steroids?
It should basicly be a ship that empowers every other ship on the battlefield rather then being wtfbbqsauce itself.
Offensive capabilities should stay the same, It just needs more hp so it can survive the battlefield longer.
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Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.21 15:13:00 -
[1710]
Hey CCP, a cap fight happened last night, and I have it on very good authority that two things are true:
It happened at close range
No target painters were used
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Dynaverse Corporation
Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.11.21 15:20:00 -
[1711]
Originally by: Ammath
Edited by: Ammath on 21/11/2009 13:51:04
What I want to know from CCP, and this is a reasonable request is a Blog post from CCP stating what they view the roles of each class of ship in EvE should be. For the purposes of this discussion I would like to see what they want Carriers, Dreadnaughts, Motherships, and Titans roles should be.
It is ok if they are not happy with the current implementations of any. But I think the community would like to know the VISION CCP has for these classes of ships, the steps of how to get there obviously require testing and balance.
What is not "o"k is statements like "titans shouldn't be direct damage dealers, so we are going to give them all kinds of crazy direct damage buffs and a massive EHP boost so they can stay on the field and fight longer" The dichotomy of that statement is mind-blowing. You might as well say "Motherships should be fleet support ships so we will be giving them the old Titan AOE doomsday" it makes about the same sense.
Basically guys this is project management 101 here. Define the vision, identify the issues, make the changes, test, do QA, and release. But further breaking one class of ships (titans from their alleged vision of them), re-balancing another class (dreads), and doing nothing for carriers, nor motherships will NOT achieve the balance nor vision you seem to have for capital ships in EvE. Although to be fair this vision has not been formally spelled out so we are going of anecdotes and one-liners from specific devs.
Honestly guys, if you want to do a redux of Capital Ship balance in EvE you need to do them ALL at once or you will never get the real-world data to tweak things properly. All you are doing is creating more mismatches.
Lets just see a simple vision matrix from CCP on combat caps..
example:
Ship Class, general role, secondary role, preferred target
Carrier - Fleet Support - Anti-Sub capital - Battleships/Support
Carriers are designed to be large fleet support ships, which still have significant combat capabilities with their Fighters and Drones to provide support for fleets against sub-capital targets.
The above is just an example... CCP could you please do this for us so we know the intended vision of these classes? If you feel a class doesn't meet your vision, explain why.
For the record for this release Motherships should get the HP boost, and jump-range boost. Those frankly are needed no matter what and have been a problem since 2006.
This.
=====
If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
D'ceet
Lone Star Joint Venture
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.21 15:38:00 -
[1712]
Originally by: Sertan Deras
Hey CCP, a cap fight happened last night, and I have it on very good authority that two things are true:
It happened at close range
No target painters were used
quoting this little gem...
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Hahaha what the christ?!
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2009.11.21 16:04:00 -
[1713]
Originally by: Eheufaucan
But the biggest problem is the explosion velocity. In siege mode it's reduced to 12m/s and in my opinion thats a bigger problem than the high explosion radius.
Wait... WHAT?
They reduce the tracking penalty for XL turrets in siege, but don't reduce the explosion velocity penalty?
That's it. I thought the notion that CCP had no clue about how missiles work was just an overreaction, and surely someone at CCP was indeed aware of all factors that account for missile damage.
Apparently not. Seems they're getting their info from the "missiles always hit and always do full damage"-whiners on the forums thou.
At least now we know why explosion velocity and radius was omitted from the Capital Weapons thread in the Test Server forum. It was not included in their calculations at all
Quote:
Missiles
Next up, within the next week, Citadel Torpedoes and launchers will see their stats change dramatically and we will introduce Citadel Cruise Missiles and launchers. Phoenix pilots, rejoice! While these changes will not hit SiSi for another week or so, we can give you the the current working stats:
Old Value / New Value
Citadel Torp Launcher I
RoF: 48 seconds / 33 seconds
Citadel Torpedoes
Flight Time: 20 seconds / 7.5 seconds
Base Velocity: 2750 / 3500
Base Damage: 1800 / 2000
Citadel Cruise Launcher I
RoF: 48 seconds
Citadel Cruise Missiles
Flight Time: 20 seconds
Base Velocity: 4250 (3500 on sisi ATM)
Base Damage: 1800 (1500 on sise ATM)
So in summary;
Citadel torps get a 61% increase in raw dps ( rof/dmg ), but they get an increase of 125% to explosion radius. That's a 36% sig tanking reduction in dmg ( against a 1700m signature radius ). So the end result is a mere 3% damage increase against dreads in siege.
I would rejoice, but you cut my range of those extra 3% dps in half. No Phoenix pilot is going to risk fitting Citadel torps and be a sitting duck with that engagement range. On top of that, the explosion velocity is now even worse in siege, compared to XL tracking.
CCP, don't try and tell me XL turret tracking and damage is balanced against this. Against targets going 12m/s? Who are those targets? Do they have a signature radius that makes tracking an issue at all? I don't think hitting Titans and Moms is an issue, even with the new XL turret tracking values in and out of siege. Where's that potential to do more damage against larger targets for citadel torps? I only see XL turrets being able to do full damage.
So citadel torps get 3% more damage against anything larger than a dread, as long as it's sitting still. And God knows how much of a decrease against anything moving, and/or, smaller than a dread. Trading in half their range.
What about cruises? The thread says 1800 base damage. Sisi says 1500. Which means -300dps compared to current torps... oh wait, did you EFT with Caldari Dread LVL 4 CCP? Then it's 1800
Still, an 50% increase to explosion radius compared to current torps. Less damage, and the same explosion velocity. That's what Phoenix pilots can look forward to. After they finish Cruise Missiles 5. I'm rejoicing in my pants as I type, thinking about these 70km range, crap damage cruises.
I'm so happy you balance this in EFT with skill bonuses applied, or, decided to cut Citadel cruise stats by 20/25% after that thread was started. Those cruises would clearly have been a monsterÖ.
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Tele Z'thain
Fraser's Finest
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Posted - 2009.11.21 16:21:00 -
[1714]
Well, here we are. At least seven pages of dissent deleted.
Thank you for finally manning-up and banning one of my accounts. Just a few more to go guys!
You can't sweep people under the rug, CCP.
It's p. obvious you need training in Customer Relations.
Well thank God someone else is buying PLEXes from you to sell to me so I'm not directly giving you cash.
Oh, and btw:
Quote:
Deleting posts is non-constructive
Disagreement is constructive
You can have a discussion or you can have censorship, they are mutually exclusive.
|
Van Doren
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 16:24:00 -
[1715]
Edited by: Van Doren on 21/11/2009 16:24:08
Can we get the patch notes already so we can see how messed up capital warfare will be after December 1st?
2 dev posts either misguided or damage control will not beat the 50 pages of WTF! questions from the players. Maybe you're reading (but it is doubtful with the amount of censorship) but your time seems to be too precious to answer anything except at the fanfest when players give you free beers.
So even a draft of the patch notes would be better PR than what we had so far.
(Forum date: 1523-51)
|
Ceirah
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 16:32:00 -
[1716]
Originally by: Tappits
Edited by: Tappits on 21/11/2009 11:50:04
Originally by: New ones
Nozh made us a nice drawing to inform us why he changed stuff:
http://i48.tinypic.com/24fyzuo.jpg
I LOLed
1491
haha
|
tasman devil
Amarr
Imperium Galactica
Omega Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 16:47:00 -
[1717]
This is stupid, and is another amarr nerf... :P
Am I correct or am I correct?
----------------------------------
Even if you don't belive in God,
Be prepared to meet him anytime... |
Mrs Dent
Minmatar
Cocks in Frocks
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 16:47:00 -
[1718]
You said you didnt want to just do "something" with the mothership.
It appears that is exactly what youve done with the titan.
The name "titan" implies a pretty ****ing uber ship.
The damage of a dread (although that will be debatable the rate dreads are getting nerfed) and a 10 minute cycle time for 1 kill doesnt seem that great to me, not for the trouble and cost it takes to build, (they are not all built and payed for by super rich alliances)
In your infinate wisdom do the devs honestly think titans are worth deploying on the field as they are on sisi?
|
Aequitas Veritas
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 17:07:00 -
[1719]
Originally by: Sidus Sarmiang
The changes to titans and motherships had the potential to change this around. With a tier of ships above dreadnaughts, the possibility of escalating a conflict above a mere capship fight became possible. Imagine an enemy is sieging your POS. You have engaged their subcap fleet, they responded by bringing in dreadnaughts and carriers, you countered them with a hotdrop. You have a slight advantage, but one large enough to win.
Up until the original plan for Dominion, that would've been the end of it. You would win the battle, an important battle, but odds are the war would continue. The titan and mothership changes introduced a new possibility and level to the conflict. Instead of the battle ending with your victory, another cyno opens and suddenly five of the enemy's titans and twice that many motherships supported by repping carriers drop onto the field. The risks and the rewards of the battle have changed. The possibility to lose your dreadnaught fleet in a spectacular manner now exists, but in return the enemy has given you the chance to destroy a good chunk of their supercapital force, which, due to the cost and long construction time, compounded by the lack of sov 4, would effectively destroy them. In order to take advantage of this, though, you have to risk your own supercapitals and the possibility of crippling your own alliance.
This is a hell of a lot more interesting than any type of warfare before it.
You had a chance to give us this.
Instead you want to give us super-rorquals and 18 billion isk titan-bait POS-huggers.
I think this is why all of 0.0 agreed on the changes. Everyone from the grunts to the leaders like these massive fights that continue to escalate, like the one in Syndicate last night, with loads of killed dreads, even if its just a chance of killing one of these behemoths thats taken months to build and how many manhours to sort out... We need these ships on the field not sitting at a pos, and unless they have enough damage or other benefits theyll be stuck at poses doing nothing at all.
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
|
Mack Bane
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 17:15:00 -
[1720]
I agree(on most part) with ppl in here, about the fact, that there was not much info about WHY the changes were postponed(after this lengthy period of testing and argueing it's pro's and con's).And i see most ppl are confused or angry about this fact alone.(so am i)
So, if CCP doesn't change Supercarriers,but stays on target with the new DD,why would anybody field a 15bn behemoth, that has no hope in hell to survive?
We, the players need to know, where you want to go with shipclasses,I don't like to spend a serious amount of time and money, to become the pilot,even the biggest supercap is afraid of, just to find out, my Super-ship has just been turned into a mega-hauler.
"Ship purpose" is relevant for the decisions we make! It should not change, every 6 months, or so.
Ship classes schould be balanced as a whole, not just pick out one of its range, and buff or nerf it.Same goes for modules, weapons, and ammo.
and don't forget:Only one letter separates Capital ships from Crapital ships
|
|
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 17:41:00 -
[1721]
As quite new to the game and these patches drama, I'd like to ask one very very simple thing:
If the patch was going well and there was good consensus, did anyone at CCP post why it got completely scratched and redone (in an impopular way)?
-
Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and
http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
|
Ka'lorn Font'a
Amarr
Reikoku
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 17:53:00 -
[1722]
It's alright guys, I mean - Motherships have been underwhelming for how long?
What's another 12+ months before they get fixed?
|
Xahara
StarFleet Enterprises
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 17:54:00 -
[1723]
We are talking about a whole new, completely revamping, expansion. This is both very intriguing for CCP and the players. While I and possibly CCP understand all the flaming, we shouldn't really talk like that to the people that make our game. This isn't about Internet Spaceships Serious Business. This is about the actual people that work on we having fun. I bet CCP would understand our posts the same as if they didn't have so much hate and personal attacks. Everyone makes mistakes. Have you guys never done any?
Now, in terms of players, its understandable that we have such rage. Everyone was pretty excited about mothership changes and whatnot. Hell, I was going to start grinding and carebearing just to get a Supercarrier myself :) It is indeed sad that we would no longer be able to fly those, whilst the players were all happy about the changes and stuff, apart from the obvious trolls, which there are in every expansion.
Now, I believe CCP has two options on dealing with this: either make Supercarriers the way they were supposed to be and not just remain the same (because currently, motherships are soooo not worth it and you know it...) or tell us what the perfect mothership design would be, with no vagueish stuff.
Apart from this, I think the expansion is going to rock. Just please bring back the almighty mom changes :)
|
Venetian Tar
United Systems Navy
Zenith Affinity
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 17:58:00 -
[1724]
1721. |
Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 18:05:00 -
[1725]
What's on SISI now isn't a bad tie-over if they would just fix the f'ing explosion radius on compact torps.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Aequitas Veritas
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 18:10:00 -
[1726]
Except the whimpy Titans tho
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
|
Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 18:15:00 -
[1727]
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas
Except the whimpy Titans tho
Yeah I was just referring to the moms. Titans need the 200% bonus back tbh
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Qwert Y
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 18:35:00 -
[1728]
I like how ccp is operating exactly like china to quell dissent. They delete posts, and ban those who continue to state their opinion that ccp are a bunch of idiots with no customer service and continuing to prove that they don't care at all what their memberbase says.
|
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 18:36:00 -
[1729]
Originally by: Xahara
stuff
We should get angry and express it. CCP forgets from time to time, that these rare dev posts are the only information and line of communication some of us have. We listen closely when they post and what they post. When they tell us let's work together and be buddies, and then suddenly make a 180 degree turn from what was agreed and stop answering our calls, people start to get worried. I don't care about the mistakes, I care about the sudden abandonment of all our previous work together without communication and silence when we tried to ask what was going on. Then the only answer given was less then satisfactory and just seemed to confirm all the worst fears.
That kind of behavior sends a negative message to the other party about the value of and sincerity of all the previous work and discussions. All of it could have been avoided, if they would just have collectively grown a pair of balls, answered the initial questions and told what was going on. The longer you avoid communication at that point, the more it seems that you are avoiding the issue on purpose and people start to get angry and confused. After that it becomes less and less important what the actual reason for the change was.
Good communication skills would have gone a long way in solving this mess before it even got started. Avoiding answering questions and deleting posts left and right only got people frenzied up even more.
|
Walker Bulldog
Minmatar
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 19:27:00 -
[1730]
By now, I won't be surprised to find out on December 1st that Nidhoggur bonus has been switched to 5%/level fighter HP.
|
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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 19:38:00 -
[1731]
Originally by: Lith Erivi
CCP if you want to test caps instead of inviting any random person who can log into an account to suggest balance tips how about invite the people who actually live in 0.0 to come and fight it out under your scenarios?
Maybe that's too organized and constructive for yall.
Yes, that's right. Only people in 0.0 use capital ships.
My sig don't fracking work. |
Omara Otawan
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 19:41:00 -
[1732]
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue
We should get angry and express it.
Maybe, but we should try and be civil about it.
If people are acting like angry children, how can they expect to be reasoned with? You dont do that, you simply present them with facts.
People are complaining about posts being deleted, but if you cross-read the thread, how many posts are (or were, if you look at eve-search) completely out of line, personally insulting and sometimes even bordering extortion / blackmailing attempts?
Now as I see it, the only real problem with testing the stuff out on SiSi was the top-down approach, if they had worked backwards, starting from totally prenerfed and worked the way up, much of the rage wouldnt have happened.
Remember, feedback is typically received only, not being answered doesnt mean you arent being listened to.
|
Drachenlord
Amarr
Pilipino Corp
Primary.
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 19:42:00 -
[1733]
Well...
Let it never be said that you won't Completely Cave to less than 1000 pilots QQing their hearts out.
That said.. the ORIGINAL CHANGES were quite well accepted and liked by everyone, it wasn't until you started screwing with things after the fact that people got up in arms.
go back to the ORIGINAL Changes and everyone should be happy... including the guy who originally designed the original changes.
This Just in... massive QQ from mothership pilots, still leaves motherships worthless.
-----
While the Enemies of the Empire still draw breath there can be no peace |
Lith Erivi
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 19:44:00 -
[1734]
Originally by: Karlemgne
Originally by: Lith Erivi
CCP if you want to test caps instead of inviting any random person who can log into an account to suggest balance tips how about invite the people who actually live in 0.0 to come and fight it out under your scenarios?
Maybe that's too organized and constructive for yall.
Yes, that's right. Only people in 0.0 use capital ships.
Reliably enough that most of the playerbase able to fly them knows their mechanics? Yes
|
Karlemgne
Tides Of War
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 19:44:00 -
[1735]
Originally by: easylad
CCP stop being childish with the deleting of posts oh BTW
CCP Nozh are you trying to kill eve?
As a former game developer, I echo Hammerhead's statement, you cannot ever place the responsibility for game changes on a single person.
And again, since the proposed game changes affect maybe 20% of the entire player base, and I'm artificially stretching that number, I fail to see how the proposed changes could "kill eve."
-Karlemgne
My sig don't fracking work. |
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 19:51:00 -
[1736]
Originally by: Karlemgne
And again, since the proposed game changes affect maybe 20% of the entire player base, and I'm artificially stretching that number, I fail to see how the proposed changes could "kill eve."
Not saying it will. However, you do realize that those 20% are what keep the EVE economy going right?
Empire LVL 4 mission runners, are not going to support the hordes of industrialists, traders and other people in hi-sec.
|
Honest Smedley
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 20:22:00 -
[1737]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
As quite new to the game and these patches drama, I'd like to ask one very very simple thing:
If the patch was going well and there was good consensus, did anyone at CCP post why it got completely scratched and redone (in an impopular way)?
CCP Hammerhead essentially answered this.
In the form everyone liked, they were too powerful and (combined with titans) lent too much of an advantage to established 0.0 alliances. Basically, those who can currently field them would hold an insurmountable advantage over those who currently can't.
In the nerfed version, motherships weren't powerful enough to justify their cost or inability to dock. They also obsoleted carriers. This lead CCP down a path (lowering production cost, making them dockable, etc.) that was both disliked by the playerbase, and by CCP. They were therefore reverted.
Motherships will continue to not be compelling over carriers because CCP doesn't understand or hasn't been able to implement the special sauce that will make them so. Simply making them WTF ownzor carriers is not going to do it, because it is unbalancing and will have to be changed again later. Changes have thus been delayed until after Dominion.
The collective player base whining about the matter needs to stop being but-hurt by changes to things being changed on the friggin' test server. CCP needs to stop dev blogging about changes on the test server as though they're promised features for the next expansion.
|
Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 20:38:00 -
[1738]
Over the mothership and censorship drama let us not forget the capital weapon changes.
Can please any competent dev respond on the target painter stuff? What nonsense is that capital weapons cannot hit SIEGED capitals or pos towers for full damage?
And if you post dps graphs, can you please post the dps under REALISTIC conditions, that is standard t2 fit, fleet boni etc.?
And PLEASE can you give us some NUMBERS?!??!?! For **** sake, don't write articles about stuff that no one is interested in (like motherships with 5 dcu and 3 target painters and 20 fighter bombers, that wont happen anyway so what is the point in making up those numbers?!) but give us NUMBERS!!!
A list of the new weapon stats please. ALL of the (relevant) stats!
You are one week away from release, you want to tell me that you do not have the numbers ready? Otherwise it would be pure maliciousness not giving us the numbers. Oh, and how did you make up those pretty graphs without numbers? |
Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 20:40:00 -
[1739]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 21/11/2009 20:43:00
Originally by: Honest Smedley
In the form everyone liked, they were too powerful
What he said was they had the "potential" to be overpowered, not that they were. There is a huge difference. They also had a potential to end up as not a big factor in 0.0 cap warfare due to dreads still being the vast majority of DPS and EHP brought to cap fights.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 21:01:00 -
[1740]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 21/11/2009 20:51:33
Originally by: Honest Smedley
In the form everyone liked, they were too powerful
What he said was they had the "potential" to be overpowered...
Why?
I mean, why was there a potential that they would be overpowered?
Were they afraid of a mothership blob?
Were the afraid of nearly invincible solo motherships?
What exactly was the problem? "They had the potential to be overpowered" is really just bs PR talk. EVERY significant ship has the potential to be overpowered if you make blobs of them.
So what? You identify exactly the problems in a detailed analysis and tackle them then.
But seriously, what can we expect from a team of devs who do not even know how capital warfare is done and how the game mechanic around capitals is working? Can we really expect some INSIGHT into the problems and can we hope for SOLUTIONS?
I wish we could. Please restore my faith again (won't be that easy though) with competent devblogs and reasonable replies and just with people who know their business and are professionals. |
|
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 21:12:00 -
[1741]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Why?
I'm assuming they were afraid of SC + titan fleet blobs from the major alliances steamrolling everyone else.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
El Liptonez
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 21:29:00 -
[1742]
Originally by: Sentinel Eeex
Dominion is actually going to be a Chrome browser, with some huge ****ty spaceship screensaver attached to it.
|
Ceirah
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 21:35:00 -
[1743]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Gnulpie
Why?
I'm assuming they were afraid of SC + titan fleet blobs from the major alliances steamrolling everyone else.
Major alliances can steamroll everyone without SC's and titans...
|
Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 21:36:00 -
[1744]
Originally by: Ceirah
I'm assuming they were afraid of SC + titan fleet blobs from the major alliances steamrolling everyone else.
Major alliances can steamroll everyone without SC's and titans...
Hey, I'm not saying that's what I thought, I'm saying that's what I think CCP thought.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 21:36:00 -
[1745]
Edited by: Gnulpie on 21/11/2009 21:38:36
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Gnulpie
Why?
I'm assuming they were afraid of SC + titan fleet blobs from the major alliances steamrolling everyone else.
Yeah but that is exactly what I mean. We are just assuming things and poking in the mist for answers.
It couldn't be really that difficult to just point out the facts, could it?
If they say that a blob of titans + sc has really no counter and is the i-win, then okay: say so, show the numbers and everyone will see and understand. No problem, everyone fine with that (well almost everyone since there will be always people unhappy with something but that doesn't really matter here).
But maybe it was some other reason? Maybe not? Who knows?
How can we give any valuable feedback at all without knowing anything? It needed thousands of posts and a real outcry on the forums before Hammerhead said that the changes were cancelled because the devs felt it was possibly to powerful. And that after WEEKS of questions about the sudden and totally abrupt scrapping of all work on caps + supercaps so far.
How can we give any valuable feedback if CCP is not talking to us in a clear, transparent and professional manner? And if those changes were really so bad, why couldn't Abathur just say so at the end of the long feedback period? Everyone would have been sad, maybe upset a bit also, but most people would have understood it.
How can we give any valuable feedback if the devs in charge just saying nothing at all, make assumptions which are completely out of the scale and have nothing to do with the game and just hide behind some irreal graphs otherwise.
How can we give any valuable feedback under such circumstances?
That is what worries me most here. |
Soleil Fournier
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 21:59:00 -
[1746]
Edited by: Soleil Fournier on 21/11/2009 21:59:22
The hate gets us nowhere, give them something they can use to make the ships better. Here's a thread I started in features and ideas to talk about possible roles for the ship class going forward:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1218135
|
Natasha Nikolaev
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 22:26:00 -
[1747]
Full-package mothership proposal
I implore you to take a look and post comments/suggestions
|
Peryner
University of Caille
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 23:24:00 -
[1748]
Originally by: Honest Smedley
Edited by: Honest Smedley on 21/11/2009 20:29:47
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
As quite new to the game and these patches drama, I'd like to ask one very very simple thing:
If the patch was going well and there was good consensus, did anyone at CCP post why it got completely scratched and redone (in an impopular way)?
CCP Hammerhead essentially answered this.
In the form everyone liked, they were too powerful and (combined with titans) lent too much of an advantage to established 0.0 alliances. Basically, those who can currently field them would hold an insurmountable advantage over those who currently can't.
In the nerfed version, motherships weren't powerful enough to justify their cost or inability to dock. They also obsoleted carriers. This lead CCP down a path (lowering production cost, making them dockable, etc.) that was both disliked by the playerbase, and by CCP. They were therefore reverted.
Motherships will continue to not be compelling over carriers because CCP doesn't understand or hasn't been able to implement the special sauce that will make them so. Simply making them WTF ownzor carriers is not going to do it, because it is unbalancing and will have to be changed again later. Changes have thus been delayed until after Dominion.
The collective player base whining about the matter needs to stop being butt-hurt by changes to things being changed on the friggin' test server. CCP needs to stop dev blogging about changes on the test server as though they're promised features for the next expansion.
DAMN STRAIGHT!
Honestly I don't understand the "I'm a mothership polit and these changes are going to make me quit"
what changes? the lack of changes? you can't quit when NOTHING IS CHANGED. it's not a nerf if they don't' change anything. Sisi numbers don't count.
Now CCP, if you reading this, understand players aren't mad about the changes, they are mad that you wont' explian why, which is funny because posters like the above can say it just fine and they don't even work at ccp :P maybe it's just a matter of wording : )
honestly with the nerfed changes on sisi, the mother just became a tech2 carrier.
you should just boost carriers to the point you had motherships, and make motherships a new ship.
Something like maybe... oh that' a good idea... to the ideas forum!
|
Aunt Red
|
Posted - 2009.11.21 23:42:00 -
[1749]
TL;DR
You've whined your way out of a serious buff to capital warfare.
You've whined your way into changing the whole signature mechanic cause it doesn't make theoretical sense and might require combat ability.
You have whined your way to even more profitable nullsec.
You've messed up big time, pubbies.
Troll-campaigns will not change anything.
Be gone!
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JeWeetTogDinges
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 00:16:00 -
[1750]
Originally by: Aunt Red
TL;DR
You've whined your way out of a serious buff to capital warfare.
You've whined your way into changing the whole signature mechanic cause it doesn't make theoretical sense and might require combat ability.
You have whined your way to even more profitable nullsec.
You've messed up big time, pubbies.
Troll-campaigns will not change anything.
Be gone!
i gess u havent payd 22 bil for a ship ??
|
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Tommy Blue
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 00:19:00 -
[1751]
Edited by: Tommy Blue on 22/11/2009 00:20:34
Originally by: Honest Smedley
In the form everyone liked, they were too powerful
Because a ship that has a giant buffer tank, cannot dock, costs 8-10x more and does 2x (or was it 3x) more damage than a dread, and can only hit dreadnoughts is overpowered.
Makes sense.
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Aunt Red
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 00:25:00 -
[1752]
Originally by: JeWeetTogDinges
Originally by: Aunt Red
TL;DR
You've messed up big time, pubbies.
Be gone!
i gess u havent payd 22 bil for a ship ??
nope. i wouldn't be that dumb. i hope.
|
Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 00:25:00 -
[1753]
Originally by: Tommy Blue
does 2x (or was it 3x) more damage than a dread
It was almost exactly 2x (2.5x for nyx) more than a 3x dmg mod dread.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Kuzim Blaky'all
Minmatar
Recycling and Recovery
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 00:26:00 -
[1754]
Edited by: Kuzim Blaky''all on 22/11/2009 00:31:37
sup sup
its tim to refleck
on da viking hip-hoppa's
dicision to negleck
the words of da krew
da posses who be down,
from charles atlas, goon krew,
klingons , romans, clowns
you dawgs tell all gangs
its tim to harden up
but when a gang bangs,
you try an make they stop
so dig it dawg, wait,
i'm fillin kinda ill
pig flu, dig it, i got to take som pillz
but im better dawg,
im back on my feet
an i got a mad message
to take to da street
word up,
jus let whats said flo
ain got nothin better,
so jus let whats planned go
all posse eve side
came to a concensus
from da small fri playas
to dawgs who reprezant us
hears da words from dawgs
who play dis game
to ignore what dawgs be sayin'
is jus insane.
above all else a dawg
would like to stress:
a dawgs motivation
is to make recyclien best
its da gig what
i've been doin' so long
an anythin what make it better
is make da reaper strong
be safe dawg.
53,1562
|
Ayamemaru
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 00:35:00 -
[1755]
Originally by: Kuzim Blaky'all
Edited by: Kuzim Blaky''all on 21/11/2009 04:44:11
Yo momma ship be all shes worth
since a day a dawg momma ship firs give birth
she ain lose she value, she still worth a bunch
even tho da ccp posse almost cost crunch
the value, teh cost, the thins what go in
when a dawg be a momma ship makin'
but ain no word on bufin up re-re crew
since ccp posse gave a dawg salvager 2
all a dawg need to make him chill
is bad dawgs to pay they silence tax bill
but dawg, somtims someone be flying big boat
an top dawgs, in they ship, be mad as a goat
when a posse, be a viking, cant figure out
what a dawg do, it makes payin dawgs shout
so dig it dawg, i jus got a message:
when a senate make a bill, a dawg commit to its passage
when da posse who pay
an play
all the day
an a bigger dawg say
ok
to him death ray
an all dawgs else, who had time to test
say "Dawg dig it, all da work you do? is da best!"
jus let it happen, water under a bridge
we be chill again in no time
like we be in a frige
in short dawg, make da reaper touff
49,1455 word up
1 million ISK in your tip jar sir.
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Magnus Orin
Minmatar
United Systems Navy
Zenith Affinity
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 00:36:00 -
[1756]
Originally by: Kuzim Blaky'all
Edited by: Kuzim Blaky''all on 22/11/2009 00:31:37
sup sup
its tim to refleck
on da viking hip-hoppa's
dicision to negleck
the words of da krew
da posses who be down,
from charles atlas, goon krew,
klingons , romans, clowns
you dawgs tell all gangs
its tim to harden up
but when a gang bangs,
you try an make they stop
so dig it dawg, wait,
i'm fillin kinda ill
pig flu, dig it, i got to take som pillz
but im better dawg,
im back on my feet
an i got a mad message
to take to da street
word up,
jus let whats said flo
ain got nothin better,
so jus let whats planned go
all posse eve side
came to a concensus
from da small fri playas
to dawgs who reprezant us
hears da words from dawgs
who play dis game
to ignore what dawgs be sayin'
is jus insane.
above all else a dawg
would like to stress:
a dawgs motivation
is to make recyclien best
its da gig what
i've been doin' so long
an anythin what make it better
is make da reaper strong
be safe dawg.
53,1562
/thread
|
Myrkala
Minmatar
Aurora Acclivitous
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 00:36:00 -
[1757]
Okay, Mr. Nozh you made an oopsie.
I would like to get an explanation why the Naglfar got its bonuses changed so it is now, YET AGAIN... A "SPLIT-WEAPON" Platform, no it's not primarily about the damage potential it's the UNFAVOURABLE fact's which I am going to point out to you:
* A split weapon-platform must use double the amount of lowslots for damage mod's to receive THE SAME AMOUNT of boost in damage as currently all the other three dreads (Who only have ONE KIND OF WEAPONS SYSTEMS to worry about boosting damage in.
* This splurging of valuable slots results in less slots for fitting a tank and other necessary modules.
* Also makes it necessary for Minmatar Dread Pilots to train for TWO PRIMARY weapons systems, while the other races do not have to.
* So you end up with a dread, that takes longer to train for than other race's dreads.
* You end up with a dread that has maybe 5-10% more dps but shockingly lower staying power.
* This also results in Naglfars becoming more viable targets to shoot than any other dreads, mainly because of their weak staying power coupled with a marginally higher damage potential.
* This resulted in Minmatar Pilots and even non-minmatar pilots lobbying to change the Naglfar to something sensible, it took YEARS. And it was changed, it was ADEQUATE for a few months, no it still was not the best dread even with those big bonuses it had, it was merely competitive. And worth training for.
* Now you REVERT THE CHANGES?... I'M BAFFLED. Oh...... right, you balanced the turrets to make them better, because of the Titans using them. Oh damn, the NAGLFAR does too much damage now! Ahhh, lets look at what you said again...
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Due to the changes made to XL Turrets, Citadel Missiles/Torpedoes and projectile turrets, the Naglfar became an absolute monster, not in a good way. The weapon bonuses on the Naglfar had to be adjusted to keep the balance intact.
No you did not ADJUST them, you CHANGED them. And NERFED the Naglfar back into the ****vortex it was stuck in before!
If you really wanted to ADJUST the bonuses, you would tweak the two damage bonuses to projectiles to match... 5% ROF and 5% DMG. I have a feeling that would have okay, or just tweak it a bit more. Like say 6% of each, do you have a rule that says that bonuses must be either 5% or 7,5% ? Well its stupid if its only for looks, and balancing would be easier too.
Did it ever occur to you that you could balance the damage of the Ragnarok and Naglfar at the same time? Finding a good solution for something which then forces you to make totally unfair changes to is stupid.
Give us back the Naglfar we actually liked and used with joy, knowing that it was just as good as the other dreads. That would be one way to help you crawl out of the proverbial **** pit you've flung yourself into.
Helvftis Fokkfng Fokk!
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Xessej
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Posted - 2009.11.22 01:06:00 -
[1758]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
First, IÆd like to say that a single developer cannot come in and unilaterally change everything with no oversight. People are spewing a lot of hate at CCP Nozh but instead itÆs a case of shooting the messenger. He is just doing his job trying to improve the game and explain the reasoning for why changes were made.
In teh future it might be best to assign the job of writing dev posts to someone who understands cap ship combat well enough to know TP is rarely a viable solution to the nerf of missile sig radius in this patch.
Quote:
We werenÆt entirely happy with the direction and balancing of MOMs before development of Dominion began. Even during the SISI tests they still werenÆt falling into place for us. They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0. So we tried to tune them again to a point we felt was balanced, but then the role of the ships wasnÆt clear once we started to lower the damage. Instead, they started to blur with dreads and carriers.
You guys don't really think new independent alliances are going to take sov do you? What's going to happen is the big sov holders will pull back from some of their less valuable territory and if anyone is foolhardy enough to try and take sov they will get a cap fleet dropped on them and that will be the end of that. The SuperCarrier didn't change that in the least. The fact that the established sov holders can field hundreds of cap ships is what makes that possible. Until that is resolvedthe only way for a new alliance to take sov will be as someones pets.
Quote:
You all made your voices clear with important feedback, we listened and reverted things back to like they are on TQ while we take more time to reassess. We could have tried to put out ôsomethingö just because we have been talking about it, but then we would be in a situation where players are getting into ships that might very well change again in a coming patch. Given the amount of work to get one of these we just didnÆt feel that was the right thing to do.
Seems pretty simple and obvious to me, motherships absolutely have to have the ehp buff that was going to be given to them as SC's or all the titan changes need to be rolled back as well. The mom is far too fragile versus its cost to ever be deployed if the Titan single target DDD is around.
Quote:
The other misconception I want to address is about our public test server. SISI is there so we can have as many people as possible looking for bugs. We think it best to put things out in the public as soon as possible regardless of whether or not itÆs final so we get more eyes on it. This just makes sense to us from a QA standpoint because EVE is an extremely complex piece of software. SISI isnÆt really meant to be a place to try new fittings, do FFA battles or preview upcoming features, although we know people use it for that and we really donÆt mind because more load on our test server helps us find bugs. ItÆs also not a guarantee as to what will be in the next expansion. There have been plenty of times when we dropped a feature that was partially complete on SISI. Arenas and storefronts are two recent examples. ItÆs highly probable that we like pulling features from a release even less than you do but sometimes it cannot be helped. So while supercarriers were on the test server and had gone through plenty of testing it still wasnÆt guaranteed to end up on TQ in that exact state. Only what lands on TQ on patch day is guaranteed.
I'll remember that the next time I see a dev post begging for me to spend my time downloading the newest sisi build so I can help out testing a new feature.
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WhiteSavage
Ever Flow
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 01:31:00 -
[1759]
lol at all the mothership pilots whining that their buffs wherent good enough... and now their ships r gonna stay worthless as they ever where :)
GJ you deserve it.
and good choice CCP.
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Tommy Blue
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 01:54:00 -
[1760]
Edited by: Tommy Blue on 22/11/2009 01:54:58
Originally by: WhiteSavage
lol at all the mothership pilots whining that their buffs wherent good enough... and now their ships r gonna stay worthless as they ever where :)
GJ you deserve it.
and good choice CCP.
They are not whining. They are ****ed of at CCPs' indecisiveness and the fact that they cant leave something that works and is awesome alone.
Less whining, more angry mob with torches and pitchforks.
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|
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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 02:12:00 -
[1761]
Edited by: Karlemgne on 22/11/2009 02:15:05
Originally by: Pohbis
Originally by: Karlemgne
And again, since the proposed game changes affect maybe 20% of the entire player base, and I'm artificially stretching that number, I fail to see how the proposed changes could "kill eve."
Not saying it will. However, you do realize that those 20% are what keep the EVE economy going right?
Empire LVL 4 mission runners, are not going to support the hordes of industrialists, traders and other people in hi-sec.
*cough*
Excuse me? So you are saying that the 20% of people being affected (possibly) by capital changes are the one's who keep eve's economy running? How's that? First of all, 0.0's contribution to eve's economy comes mostly from moongoo.
Less than 23% of eve's player base lives in 0.0. Most of the ships and pods that are dying are doing the dying in low-sec and empire, and its the destruction of these ships, mods, and implants that actually make the economy run.
So basically, 0.0 floats the tech 2 economy only in that 0.0 is where the moongoo for tech 2 ships and mods comes from--and even then its not even probably the MAJORITY of the moongoo.
Even granting that it was, I fail to see how the changes proposed by CCP to the MoMs and dreads would have had ANY significant impact on the even the tech 2 economy.
-Karlemgne
My sig don't fracking work. |
Bengul
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 03:02:00 -
[1762]
Proposed changes seem fine to me.
|
WhiteSavage
Ever Flow
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 03:16:00 -
[1763]
Originally by: Tommy Blue
Edited by: Tommy Blue on 22/11/2009 01:54:58
Originally by: WhiteSavage
lol at all the mothership pilots whining that their buffs wherent good enough... and now their ships r gonna stay worthless as they ever where :)
GJ you deserve it.
and good choice CCP.
Its tough to judge them as a whole yes... but when CCP downgraded to 1 bomber per level and then boosted it to 2... lol... a hell of a lot of em where whining.
They are not whining. They are ****ed of at CCPs' indecisiveness and the fact that they cant leave something that works and is awesome alone.
Less whining, more angry mob with torches and pitchforks.
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 03:53:00 -
[1764]
Originally by: Karlemgne
Less than 23% of eve's player base lives in 0.0. Most of the ships and pods that are dying are doing the dying in low-sec and empire, and its the destruction of these ships, mods, and implants that actually make the economy run.
I think you'll find that the 30% of EVE's population that are not living in Empire, make up quite a large chunk of the materials consumed in Empire production... and the amount of pods lost in Empire and lowsec is ridiculously low compared to 0.0.
Start with the 1st QEN. It'll show you how capital warfare affects the mineral market. Then work your way up the QENs...
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Ishkawa Ontorus
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 04:26:00 -
[1765]
CCP can we have a clear description of what you want for two things please.
Motherships as you originally intended them? and super carriers as anti capital ships, since dreadnoughts are siege weapons and already fulfill that role.
is also the concept of a ship not fulfilling the role you set out that horrible of a thing. every single ship class has some bleed through on roles. obviously a supercarrier could be great at siege as well simple because its launching missiles.... shorten the range on them or something. there is always a way to balance. But what I am really curious is to hear a no BS answer on what you actually want. because currently you do not want to ruin something that is already a worthless thing. It seems to me that there is room for at least 2 more capital ships if you remove the mothership as it is now. possibly three or 4. I won't get into such details now but I am curious as to what your intended goal was with this.
You have no caused speculatory responses to the cost and availability of said ships in eve, which are not having a dramatic turnaround due to the recent news. you have created entirely new drones that are no going to be unused, or thrown away. what happens with all the wasted development?
also the concept of overpowered. you lowered a titan's doable damage because it was thought that it would be overpowered dps. why is this an issue. perhaps the goal you had set for it, the intended purpose is in fact foolish. this is an immense ship. should it not be slightly overpowered? balance is something to take into account sure, but if your worried about balance there are certainly other things you can still look into in the game to fix. and a mothership, why should it not be able to do 8+k dps. when you are thinking about the concept of a ship having 7 million armor hitpoints or whatnot, 8k dps is severely minimized. especially when you through remote logistics into the equation, and the concept that smartbombs still eat fighter bombers. which should be a trade off when you think about it. yes theya re DPS but that DPS costs something, and should have to. it shouldn't be that easy to shoot something. hell to be honest its something you can remedy with additional skills. for those pilots that don't agree to close range missiles coming from a fighter, create skills that enhance fighters all together or something. i mean there are dozens of possibilities and roads to go down, who's to say whats better than the others. I am just concerned with the lack of responsibility for this current problem. the hype that is suddenly trashed into nothingness. and why even if you are unsure scrap the whole program.. you could push your expansion back a bit to resolve this so that its really worth calling a major expansion. just to keep a deadline cuz you like the day is a little ridiculous when game quality is at stake here.
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Caliglia
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 04:31:00 -
[1766]
dam this is amasing
people are whining left and right and comming with design ideas that are allready bing implemented.
this is sad reading eve players use to be informed and intrested in eve in a degree that they use houers learning how the game mechanics worked.
plox people start reading and thinking before you EMO all over the forum or xxxx of back to WOW i sure your missed on the blizzard forums.
cali ..
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 04:46:00 -
[1767]
Originally by: Karlemgne
Edited by: Karlemgne on 22/11/2009 02:15:05
Originally by: Pohbis
Originally by: Karlemgne
And again, since the proposed game changes affect maybe 20% of the entire player base, and I'm artificially stretching that number, I fail to see how the proposed changes could "kill eve."
Not saying it will. However, you do realize that those 20% are what keep the EVE economy going right?
Empire LVL 4 mission runners, are not going to support the hordes of industrialists, traders and other people in hi-sec.
*cough*
Excuse me? So you are saying that the 20% of people being affected (possibly) by capital changes are the one's who keep eve's economy running? How's that? First of all, 0.0's contribution to eve's economy comes mostly from moongoo.
Less than 23% of eve's player base lives in 0.0. Most of the ships and pods that are dying are doing the dying in low-sec and empire, and its the destruction of these ships, mods, and implants that actually make the economy run.
So basically, 0.0 floats the tech 2 economy only in that 0.0 is where the moongoo for tech 2 ships and mods comes from--and even then its not even probably the MAJORITY of the moongoo.
Even granting that it was, I fail to see how the changes proposed by CCP to the MoMs and dreads would have had ANY significant impact on the even the tech 2 economy.
-Karlemgne
The biggest effect 0.0 has on the economy, by far, is the frequent, large scale destruction of ships. That pours isk into highsec for replacement parts and mods. Actually mining/creating anything is really not 'helping' the economy any, creating a demand for items is, because the economy would very quickly deflate without that demand.
Producing things (Isk/loot/ships/minerals) isn't serving the economy, it's self serving, and you can only produce as long as there are people to buy, and the best way to ensure that is to make sure battles are as destructive and frequent as possible. 0.0 has much more destruction than lowsec, really, lowsec has less people bumping about in it than 0.0, there's only so many times people can lose a ship in highsec before they realise they're too stupid to play the game.
Wormhole space now is also has a decent economic impact, as does all space really. It's not really true to say the economy would totally collapse, but without people in any one area, the effect would be noticeable, and 0.0 would only be second to highsec in the 'impact' it has on the economy. (Highsec has a deflationary impact, and 0.0 an inflationary impact).
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Dynaverse Corporation
Vertigo Coalition
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 06:28:00 -
[1768]
Originally by: Tommy Blue
Edited by: Tommy Blue on 22/11/2009 00:20:34
Originally by: Honest Smedley
In the form everyone liked, they were too powerful
Because a ship that has a giant buffer tank, cannot dock, costs 8-10x more and does 2x (or was it 3x) more damage than a dread, and can only hit dreadnoughts is overpowered.
Makes sense.
Did I miss the part where they took away their ability to also do a massive amount of mobile, EW immune remote repairing while dealing all of that damage?
Ahhhhh....
=====
If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Walker Bulldog
Minmatar
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 06:54:00 -
[1769]
Originally by: Peryner
what changes? the lack of changes? you can't quit when NOTHING IS CHANGED. it's not a nerf if they don't' change anything. Sisi numbers don't count.
The change is that now (in current Sisi state), two titans can kill a mothership in the time it takes them to lock it. 15+ billion isk worth of ship gone just like that. So yeah, things changed alright - before, the motherships were just worthless, now, they're REALLY expensive target drones.
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Natasha Nikolaev
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 07:13:00 -
[1770]
Edited by: Natasha Nikolaev on 22/11/2009 07:20:41
I took some time to come up with my own set of changes for the poor mothership. Enjoy and comment.
Don't take any of the actual numbers too seriously, they are more base guidlines than anything else. And please don't make worthless posts like "lol this sucks" or "lol this will be wtfbbqpwn OP" unless you add onto that why.
-AbathurÆs HP and jump range buff (both are badly needed)
-Keep +3 drones per lvl (there is no reason to nerf this)
-Increase capacitor capacity by 30% (21.5-28K increase after skills), increase equally to give 0 net recharge rate gain.
-(potentially) Allow motherships to be password locked at CSMAs
-Remove capital rr range bonuses
-(potentially) add a grid-limited defense/tank themed bonus to each ms either via ship bonus or potentially a "modified" gang link type module
Fighter Bombers:
ò Set explosion radius to 2250m
ò Adjust base compact torp damage to have max skilled (0 DCU) dps against sieged dreads at approx. 6000/7500 (nonnyx/nyx). This amount would possibly go down a bit after testing, but I think it's a good starting point.
ò Set explosion velocity to ~60m/s.
ò Introduce Advanced DCUs: See Below
Mothership-only Modules/Units:
ò Introduce Advanced DCUs: Make bonuses +1 drone/fighter-class and +7.5% (stacking penalized) fighter-class damage.
o This will net a 12.8/25.4/36/45.2/51.5% increase in fighter/FB dps.
Thus a 3 DCU FB using mom would see 8160/10200 dps against dreads (again this might go down a bit after testing). This is still significantly lower than AbathurÆs original (and requires 3 highs), but given the other goodies being added, I think it is quite good. It leaves DPS as a useful option, but not the only option.
Improve Remote ECM burst: script this module to allow 45-50 str lock break (possibly 15km radius on this) OR 20s jam duration (possibly decrease str to 20 depending on testing), increasing cap usage significantly. 45 jam str. would be very effective in tactical usage against non-triage carriers and to a lesser extent RR BS when you really need lots of jams, right now. 20s jam duration/25str option would be very useful against subcaps, particularly rr bs gangs. Changes in duration, etc. may very well be needed to prevent large numbers of ecm burts from being stupidly good.
Introduce ôCapital Armor/Shield Maintenance Botsö
ò Capital Repair Drone Operation Skillbook:
o 20% bonus to Cap. Maint. Bot rep amount per lvl
o Prereqs:
Repair Drone Operation V
Fighters IV
ò Bots will have prereq of relevant capital rr skill IV (maybe V)
ò Use a modified F/B model
ò 3/4 build cost of fighters
ò 4750 m3 (only nyx will be able to hold both a flight of F/Bs and these bots, but can't fit any spare F/Bs)
ò Set HP to ~2/3 of a fighter
ò MWD speed to somewhere between 1000-1500 m/s
ò 165 hp (base)/10 sec. repping
o 20 maint bots with lvl 4 skill will yield same rep amount as 2x cap rr. Lvl 5 will yield 2.2x capital rr
Introduce Remote Armor Burst and Remote Shield Burst modules (Hi-slot, limit 1, NOT AOE):
ò Remote Armor/Shield Burst skillbooks:
o 20% increased rep amount per lvl
o Prereqs:
Relevant Capital RR skill V
ò 75K repair amount (base)/240 sec. cycle time
ò Not exactly sure on cap cost. It would need to be very significant (5 figure significant).
ò Works on Sieged/Triaged targets (this is critical)
ò This module will make motherships useful to dreads/ triage carriers and will also make dropping in moms an effective way to buy time for other supercaps that are going down. Also with the removal of range bonuses to normal cap. rr, it will more or less makes motherships useless for RR'ing subcaps. Thus while the repping roles of carriers and motherships would still overlap, there would be critical differences in their realm of RR.
ò Add in ô99% reduction in CPU needàö to motherships
o Armor: Nyx/Aeon
o Shield: Wyvern/Hel
(Seeing as Applebabe doesn't understand the definition of crossposting, I'm forced to put this here
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Teck7
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 08:00:00 -
[1771]
Edited by: Teck7 on 22/11/2009 08:05:18
This whole patch from top to bottom has turned into a ******ed joke the last month, CCP is so misguided on what they are doing its not even funny anymore. The fact that changes are still flying back and forth with no clear objectives or more importantly no clear insight into today's realities of 0.0, with only 9d left to launch, we can already see what is on the horizon, a total cluster **** of a patch.
The amount of back and forth on stated plans is absolutely ******ed, for example for months we had developers and the like stating both at fanfest and on the forums that although the Titan will see the AOE DD removed, that emphasis will still be placed on making sure the monstrosities of eve as we know it, titans, are still used on the battlefield. However in the end we end up with a joke of a titan change with 10 minute rate of fire death ray (it was somewhat workable at 5 but 10 is just absurdity) where the developers honestly think anyone is going to use titans for the gun dmg is beyond laughable and clearly an indication of how little they understand about 0.0 dread blobs these days (why use titan for dread-like dps when you can just throw a dread on the field).
Now the ever contentious mother ship, far more pilots available to outcry this topic than titans so naturally CCP cant just outright ignore them like they did the titan pilots. The players gave weeks of constructive and very well articulated feedback, things were looking to a point workable in the recent weeks then all of a sudden some kungfu changes fly up from CCP Nozh that totally evaporate every bit of player input and return the mother ships to a useless pile of crap. So, we are left in a situation where CCP has backtracked on anything constructive for mother ships, left thousands of pilots shattered who were clinging to mom changes as the pillar anticipation of dominion to revive enjoyment in eve.
Then we end up with sov mechanics and system upgrades that simply move the POS grind from moons to gates/stations, upgrades that are nothing close to what was promised, lazy programming that fails to actually make true sec values dynamic and late revisions to the timing mechanisms on sov mechanics that do nothing to solve time zone warfare but in fact make it an absolute guarantee (so much for the fanfest statement of not having to get up at 4 in the morning to shoot structures eh?).
Lets not also forget the moon mining side of eve, not only did CCP fail to fix this, all they did was simply choose the laziest possible solution from a programming perspective which was to modify attribute values of T2 production as so to "shift" the demand in moon minerals to more readily available moons. This change is neither a fix nor a long term solution, it is out of the scope of this post to detail why that is the case but I am sure CCP's virtual world economist can detail why it will fail horribly to them (which I am sure he has already).
Likewise late-comer dreadnought changes are an absolute ******ed concept, we get our weapons nerfed, tracking penalties applied directly to the weapons now making capitals completely defenseless against anything smaller than a carrier when out of siege (so my 50 dreads are really not supposed to be able to fight the 100 rr bs or snipe bs that come in on us anymore? they are not very effective at it currently but its doable, but with new changes its impossible). Lets not get into it about the poor phoenix again... and target painters.
Then we have some of the hopefuls that were scrapped like treaties and serious promises over the recent years of revising the corporation (& alliance) management interface. The vaporware that was walking in stations and before that there was the atmospheric battles teasers and vaporware. I could keep going but I am running out of character limit and this is already a wall of text that likely CCP will not read and will do a fine job is disregarding as they've done wi
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Varrakk
Phantom Squad
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.22 09:15:00 -
[1772]
Well spoken brother.
Dominion is bleak times for us 0.0 dwellers.
Now more then ever, will blobs and alarm clock ops be needed.
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Erbz
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 09:19:00 -
[1773]
Hurry let me sell myself and get out this game.
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Moya81
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 09:24:00 -
[1774]
Edited by: Moya81 on 22/11/2009 09:24:47
Originally by: Sidus Sarmiang
The changes to titans and motherships had the potential to change this around. With a tier of ships above dreadnaughts, the possibility of escalating a conflict above a mere capship fight became possible. Imagine an enemy is sieging your POS. You have engaged their subcap fleet, they responded by bringing in dreadnaughts and carriers, you countered them with a hotdrop. You have a slight advantage, but one large enough to win.
Up until the original plan for Dominion, that would've been the end of it. You would win the battle, an important battle, but odds are the war would continue. The titan and mothership changes introduced a new possibility and level to the conflict. Instead of the battle ending with your victory, another cyno opens and suddenly five of the enemy's titans and twice that many motherships supported by repping carriers drop onto the field. The risks and the rewards of the battle have changed. The possibility to lose your dreadnaught fleet in a spectacular manner now exists, but in return the enemy has given you the chance to destroy a good chunk of their supercapital force, which, due to the cost and long construction time, compounded by the lack of sov 4, would effectively destroy them. In order to take advantage of this, though, you have to risk your own supercapitals and the possibility of crippling your own alliance.
This is a hell of a lot more interesting than any type of warfare before it.
You had a chance to give us this.
Instead you want to give us super-rorquals and 18 billion isk titan-bait POS-huggers.
Had to quote this, would be truely awsome.
1546
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Peryner
University of Caille
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Posted - 2009.11.22 09:42:00 -
[1775]
One thing I fine interesting is you took titans and nerfed them so that motherships would stand out as the ship that is sued to kill caps.
I think you need to see that's weird logic, you should just choose one ship to be a cap killer.
and based on the giant laser video on youtube, I think, honestly it just needs to be the titan.
Now as for motherships, why not make the the ying to the titan yang?
titans are full on offence, they deploy masssive troops to the battlefield and back them up with crushing attack power!
So motherships should be massive defensive platforms.Give motherships fleet bonus that you have to be in range of the mothership to benefit. things like Like 50% better shield regen, or less ammo use.
Give motherships a doomsay type AOE attack, but instead of dealing damage, it gives all (sub-cap) ships in range a temporary Resistance buff.
Let motherships produce ammo and cap charges, and then make it easy for player ships to get these out of the mothership while in battle.
Buff the mothership remote ecm, so that dreads do more dps over time when not in seige mode. It would be interesting to see a ship that forced dreads to have lower locking time as to get in more damage.
Give motherships a passive resisitance to titan super weapons.
Let motherships produce fighters that players can pilot! up to 10 players can dock inside the mothership with thier pod, then those 10 players can undock in a huge, cruiser sized drone that needs the direct input of a pod pilot.
finally remove any bonuses the mothership and carrier have in common. Don't let motherships use fighters at all. You can also introduce tech 2 "super" carriers if you want a bigger better carrier.
the mothrship could be a huge defensive powerhouse.
another crazy idea I had was to let the mothership have a reverse jumpdrive in a system the alliance has sov.
this reverse jumpdrive allows for players within jump range (only sub cap ships?) to get a popup window, where they can choose to jump to the mothership.
Make it so the mothership is the 1st line of defence. Instead of being a cap killer, make it hard for caps to kill. With more Capital ECM (ECM that works on capital ships only) or even a module that makes dreads fall out of seige mode. and a defence to stop titan super weapons form doing much of any damage to the mothership.
but finally, a crazy idea.
SUB SYSTEM TARGETING
Give the motehrship a sig radius of a small battleship, with the massive hp buff you were going to give it.
Now make it so that ships within range of the moter get better cap regena nd shield regen.
Now make it so that the mothership has a spot, that can be targeted and shot at. The capital weapon Smoke screen it would have the sig radius of a cruiser. ONce taken down, the mothership loses 20% resistances across the board and has it's sig radius increased to titan sized.
SUB SYSTEM TARGETING IN THE FUTURE OF BALANCE!
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Eloise Illstari
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Posted - 2009.11.22 09:52:00 -
[1776]
Edited by: Eloise Illstari on 22/11/2009 09:52:09
Battle Logistics
Was involved in Saturdays Capital fight in 3-1. Epic fun. However, you would never deploy an MS into such a hardcore fight. Everyone is discussing CCP's lack of change due to role definition. How do you make the MS something more than a beefed up carrier or a "logistical" backbone likened to a titan (jump portals etc)... I've had a few beers and just PM'd the below to two corp mates. I would wait for their feed back before posting on EVE-O, but **** it.
Quote:
After last nights/this mornings capital battle...
All the dreads were running out of stront for siege...
STUPID THOUGHT INCOMING!!!!!
What if the new MS configs could fit a siege transfer array?!
Think about it, we had many caps running around looting wrecks for stront.
Imagine deploying an MS fleet at the start of an enagagement. The MS can activate its siege array, each MS supporting up to 20 - 25 dreads. Dread pilots can right click on an MS and accept siege stream.
This would allow them to enter siege without stront. Of course the MS would have to have stront to enter siege transfer.
The siege transfer array would have similar properties on the MS that the siege module on the dread has.
a) Increase fighter bomber damage to 400%, so that in non siege transfer mode they aren't over powered.
b) Imbolise ship for 10 mins.
c) Maybe either increased local reps to stupid amounts or would still allow ship to be remote repped...
Everyone is always *****ing about how MS have'nt got a clearly defined role on the capital battlefield. This would give alliances proposing huge capital warfare a genuine reason to deploy MS, AND if they allowed them to be remote repped whilst siege transfer is on, carriers would become more vital instead of being anti support/bs.
In addition, CCP must add a crazy ass siege transfer animation between MS and Dread.
The real crux would be... do you deploy them at the start of a capital fight, supply siege transfer to the dread fleet and let the dreads save their local strong supplies... And then try to jump them out if you're losing? or do you jump them in after the dreads are running low and you need them to stront transfer to be able to continue the fight and win... hahah
PWN!
Flame on!
p.s. I still think they should cost 15b +, and yes, I am planning to buy a nyx (my second MS fyi)
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Stratio
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.11.22 11:11:00 -
[1777]
What I would like to know is what is happening with the testing of Abathur's changes and the feedback from the community over 2 months?
Is it being avaluated? Was is discarded?
CCP will find it hard to get people to take part in SISI tests if their input is subsequently ignored all together.
_____________________
For Tribe and Honour! |
Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Rough Necks
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Posted - 2009.11.22 11:16:00 -
[1778]
Originally by: Eloise Illstari
Battle Logistics
...words...
Would you really risk a MS for that? Certainly cheaper to fly some transports/haulers full of Stronth in at least the dreads/carriers pick that up.
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Cpt AngelNova
Amarr
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.22 11:21:00 -
[1779]
Edited by: Cpt AngelNova on 22/11/2009 11:22:46
Originally by: Myrkala
Edited by: Myrkala on 22/11/2009 02:59:27
Okay, Mr. Nozh you made an oopsie. To bad you had to take the hit, but its not surprising why when looking at your devblog.
So on to what I feel is important... directed at the people responsible:
I would like to get an explanation why the Naglfar got its bonuses changed so it is now, YET AGAIN... A "SPLIT-WEAPON" Platform. No it's not primarily about the damage potential ...it's the UNFAVOURABLE fact's which I am going to point out to you:
* A split weapon-platform must use double the amount of lowslots for damage mod's to receive THE SAME AMOUNT of boost in damage as currently all the other three dreads (Who only have ONE KIND OF WEAPONS SYSTEM to worry about.)
* This splurging of valuable slots results in less slots for fitting a tank and other necessary modules.
* Also makes it necessary for Minmatar Dread Pilots to train for TWO PRIMARY weapons systems, while the other races do not have to. Actually three since you added the Cruises.
* So you end up with a dread, that takes longer to train for than other race's dreads.
* You end up with a dread that has maybe 5-10% more dps but shockingly lower staying power.
* This also results in Naglfars becoming more viable targets to shoot than any other dreads, mainly because of their weak staying power coupled with a marginally higher damage potential.
* This resulted in Minmatar Pilots and even non-minmatar pilots lobbying to change the Naglfar to something sensible, it took YEARS for you guys to acknowledge it. And it was improved, it was ADEQUATE for a few months,it still was¦nt the best dread even with those big bonuses it had, it was merely competitive. And worth training for. Because you only really cared about the projectiles.
* Now you REVERT THE CHANGES?... I'M BAFFLED. Oh...... right, you balanced the turrets to make them better, because of the Titans using them. Oh damn, the NAGLFAR does too much damage now! Ahhh, lets look at what you (CCP through Nozh, whatever.) said again...
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Due to the changes made to XL Turrets, Citadel Missiles/Torpedoes and projectile turrets, the Naglfar became an absolute monster, not in a good way. The weapon bonuses on the Naglfar had to be adjusted to keep the balance intact.
No you did not ADJUST them, you CHANGED them. And NERFED the Naglfar back into the ****vortex it was stuck in before! It's now in the same trouble it was before!
If you really wanted to ADJUST the bonuses, you would tweak the two damage bonuses to projectiles to match... 5% ROF and 5% DMG. I have a feeling that would have been okay, or just tweak it a bit more. Like say 6% of each, do you have a rule that says that bonuses must be either 5% or 7,5% ? Well its stupid if its only for looks, and balancing would be easier too.
Did it ever occur to you that you could balance the damage of the Ragnarok and Naglfar at the same time? Finding a good solution for something which then forces you to make totally unfair changes to is stupid in my opinion.
Give us back the Naglfar we actually liked and used with joy, knowing that it was just as good as the other dreads.
Just balance it around using ONE primary weapon system, the change that EVERYONE liked. Please!
Helvftis Fokkfng Fokk!
I like this post, well said.
It doesnt make sense to me to train nearly twice aslong for a Naglfar than any other dread ingame, (this includes the added capital cruise) for no real noticeable increase.
Personally id like a naglfar that is more like a revelation or Moros. eg has 3 Turret hard points, tho this will come with its own issues i guess.
Regardless of how you change the ships weapon systems Myrkala clearly pointed out how weak the ships it interms of staying power, whats the point of having a bit more DPS but dieing significantly faster than any other ship in your class.
If your not going to change the weapon issues, atleast buff its staying power.
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Eheufaucan
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2009.11.22 11:33:00 -
[1780]
As I mentioned before with the current Sisi stats the explosion velocity of citadel torps is reduced to 12m/s. Just think about this number. 12m/s. Thats 43.2km/h - I can speedtank this with my bicycle. Remember E.T.?
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Cpt AngelNova
Amarr
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.22 11:34:00 -
[1781]
Continuing my post above, im just curious
Ducktape and Rust jokes aside.
Why does minmatar Capital ships and super capitals have to have noticeably less EHP than other racial capitals, above it was mentioned that the naglfar really lacks staying power, this really goes for all minmatar caps, i saw the proposed EHP increase for Mother ships or supper carriers, the Hel had less EHP.
My understanding is that, minmatar ships gets slightly less EHP cause their faster, lets compare a hurricane to a Harbinger, thing is, with capitals, especially Super capitals, this does becomes irrelevant, any less EHP cause of more speed applies only to conventionals.
you might aswell bring minmatar capitals more inline whit others interms of EHP, this will be good for ships like the Naglfar.
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Georn
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2009.11.22 11:43:00 -
[1782]
Originally by: Eheufaucan
As I mentioned before with the current Sisi stats the explosion velocity of citadel torps is reduced to 12m/s. Just think about this number. 12m/s. Thats 43.2km/h - I can speedtank this with my bicycle. Remember E.T.?
Well.. I do
____________
nerf metagaming, boost fun |
magickangaroo
Caldari
Reikoku
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.22 12:45:00 -
[1783]
50+ pages in what 2 days?? and that's with mods taking out alot of posts.
As im not gonna read all those posts, has ccp responded to this?
If not ccp, comon pull your finger out, clearly this is a cluster.
/Mgk
(GAL11) Brigadier General yay |
Sellyna
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Posted - 2009.11.22 12:56:00 -
[1784]
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1217073/page/50#1492
This thread shuld be over 60 pages long by now. over 10 pages of post's deleted..
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Zaiyo Modi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.22 12:58:00 -
[1785]
Edited by: Zaiyo Modi on 22/11/2009 12:58:40
CCP posted a comment here on or around page 43:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1217073&page=43#1266
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Eloise Illstari
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Posted - 2009.11.22 13:01:00 -
[1786]
Originally by: Catari Taga
Edited by: Catari Taga on 22/11/2009 11:17:26
Originally by: Eloise Illstari
Battle Logistics
...words...
Would you really risk a MS for that? Certainly cheaper to fly some transports/haulers full of Stronth in and let the dreads/carriers pick that up.
Yes, because even if you jump 10 transports over with a titan bridge, you would still have to:
A) fly around trying to figure out which of the 100 dreads require stront whilst the field is laggy as hell.
B) You have stay alive with a paper tank (600+ in local 300 red to you, probably trying to kill you) once they realise your purpose.
c) Then drop a can next to sieged dread and hope that the laws of EVE don't drop it just out of range of the sieged dread.
D) I rather those 10 pilots in transports were in dreads themselves, or at least BS/dictors.
E) I want a huge epeen, and having 20 dreads being my ***** in my 15b + ship kinda does that.
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Rough Necks
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Posted - 2009.11.22 13:54:00 -
[1787]
Edited by: Catari Taga on 22/11/2009 13:55:07
Originally by: Eloise Illstari
B) You have stay alive with a paper tank (600+ in local 300 red to you, probably trying to kill you) once they realise your purpose.
Either you fly a blockade runner or you die in a cheap ass industrial, in either you can lose these in the hundreds before getting close to the (current) value of an mom.
Originally by: Eloise Illstari
c) Then drop a can next to sieged dread and hope that the laws of EVE don't drop it just out of range of the sieged dread.
Well in the situation of the dread having run out of stronth that will be a non issue.
Originally by: Eloise Illstari
D) I rather those 10 pilots in transports were in dreads themselves, or at least BS/dictors.
Usually everybody who can fly those ships and is available will already be on scene, but your support fleet will have people who can't fly these.
Originally by: Eloise Illstari
E) I want a huge epeen, and having 20 dreads being my ***** in my 15b + ship kinda does that.
Agreed, that might do it, I concede your point, lol.
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Quince Dupree
Gallente
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.22 14:04:00 -
[1788]
wut the feck you thinking..........
CCp please play the game before you change stuff
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Kilhu Emmek
Minmatar
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2009.11.22 14:44:00 -
[1789]
Originally by: Stratio
What I would like to know is what is happening with the testing of Abathur's changes and the feedback from the community over 2 months?
Is it being avaluated? Was is discarded?
CCP will find it hard to get people to take part in SISI tests if their input is subsequently ignored all together.
Yeah, this in a bucket with fried eggs on top.
The thing that most disturbs me about this is that the CSM--a body originally created in the wake of the T20 scandal to "keep the devs honest"--met with the devs, in person, give them a list of concerns, tested proposed changes (with many other players) and saw that they were good ... and someone at CCP made the decision to pull the handle and watch it all swirl away.
So now we can't take test changes seriously, we can't take promised changes seriously, and we can't take CCP's commitment to actually listen to the CSM seriously?
Should we just, you know, start ignoring dev blogs? Should the name of the CSM be changed to "well meaning players' trip to Iceland to look at ancient viking rocks and be mislead committee"?
Maybe Permaband can do a cover of an old classic ... the Beastie Boys "Sabotage." Here, I'll help with the first line:
Quote:
I can't stand it
I know you planned it
Imma set it straight, this Watergate ...
--
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Misanth
Reaper Industries
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Posted - 2009.11.22 15:16:00 -
[1790]
I knew full well the motherships were in a bad condition when I bought mine, and I knew it was a risky investment. The expected changes could make it, or break it, 's all a gamble. That's fine.
What is not fine, is if the titan changes goes through, combined with no changes whatsoever for motherships. The risk of having titans cloaked at the POS I sit, or getting cynoed on top of my cyno, or on field where I am tackled, and just 1-3 of them killing me in a split second..
..Taking risks is part of EVE. I'm perfectly fine with that. Having my ship not being considered 'good' is fine, I flew for years purely under the "lol, Amarr" flag. Any ship with a nos would make me give up by default. No problem, things changes, over time. But seriously, losing a 12bil hull in a split second, because you decide to change A but not B, while they're vastly effecting eachother?
You can't implement the Titan changes without doing something with the motherships. That's not my opinion, that's a fact. I seriously hope this is something you're looking into, right now, as time is running out.
I backed you/CCP up during ghost training and nano nerfs, and I was patient during the boot.ini. Both first examples you gave reasonable explanations to why, and ****ups like the third can happen. But this change has zero logic, horrible customer treatment, poor communication all over, gamebreaking effects, and freightening display of devs lacking basic knowledge in game mechanics, in once. You have to fix this, simple as that.
Good luck.
-
I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
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Aequitas Veritas
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.22 15:33:00 -
[1791]
Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 22/11/2009 15:33:54
Originally by: Natasha Nikolaev
Edited by: Natasha Nikolaev on 22/11/2009 07:20:41
-Abathur’s HP and jump range buff (both are badly needed)
-Keep +3 drones per lvl (there is no reason to nerf this)
-Increase capacitor capacity by 30% (21.5-28K increase after skills), increase equally to give 0 net recharge rate gain.
-(potentially) Allow motherships to be password locked at CSMAs
-Remove capital rr range bonuses
-(potentially) add a grid-limited defense/tank themed bonus to each ms either via ship bonus or potentially a "modified" gang link type module
Fighter Bombers:
Mothership-only Modules/Units:• Introduce Advanced DCUs: Improve Remote ECM burst:
Introduce “Capital Armor/Shield Maintenance Bots”
Introduce Remote Armor Burst and Remote Shield Burst modules (Hi-slot, limit 1, NOT AOE):
These are actually quite cool thoughts and its what CCP should be trying to do. Coming up with more exclusive modules for the supercapitals that adds more tactics to the battlefield than the "whoever brings most dreads" battlefield of todays 0.0. If CCP were worried that the supercap changes would mean that it would be harder for small new alliances to take space in 0.0, then they don't quite see that the situation wont be any different from what we have no anyway where smaller ones would just be outblobbed unless they are a pet alliance...
Titans
Battle changes
- Change turret / launcher hardpoints to 4 or 3. Damage bonus of 300% or 400% pr level.
- Give them a bonus to warfare link modules
- Make a Supercapital Mount and with only one per Titan: Can only fit one superweapon pr Titan.
- Introduce the "new DD" as a new module. Reduce damage some and give it 5 min cycle. As with AoE version, pins the Titan on the field for 5 mins.
- Keep the "old DD". Remove the grid wide effect, give it a radius. Make the Titan unable to move after deploying it.
Logistical changes
- Introduce new high slot modules that increase the size of the ship maintenance and corporate hangar bay
- Increase the number of clones that can be held on the clone vat bays so that it can actually support a fleet in todays EVE
Nothing excites the 0.0 community as much as a chance to down one of these Behemoths. Every Director and CEO in 0.0 that's build one knows how much logistics work is associated and thats why they want their FCs to lay hurt to an enemy's morale by downing one. We all want to kill them and when that happens on the field that gives us customers the biggest and most thrilling fights. If we want these to be killed and create spectacular battles they need to be on the field and there must be incentives for doing so.
In EVE's stagnant 0.0 the defender has a huge logistical advantage in that they can use the stations as instant resupply units, both for Capitals and for reg ships. The attacker is therefore at a huge disadvantage and makes the attacker need to blob up a lot more just to avoid being slaughtered when the battles rage into late stages where reinforcements are required. Capitals can jump, subcaps takes longer to replace. So the new logistical modules should try and close the logistical gap. Let ppl set their clones there. Let the Titans when fitted for it actually be able to replace large parts of their fleets. Today they are only good for replacing Frigates and Cruisers, Titans should replace battleshipfleets...
- Carriers - Capital support vessels
- Dreads - By far the most cost efficient damage for cap fights
- Supercarriers? Pure battlecarriers with medium HP, no EW immunity, two wings of FB's, No RR.
- Mothership - Tactical units with special abilities in addition to wings of fighters and fighterbombers
- Titans - Either a on field cap killer with limited logistics abilities or a superb logistical tool for massive invasions. Point being that if these units should be fought over they need to enter the battlefield!
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
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Aequitas Veritas
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.22 15:39:00 -
[1792]
Edited by: Aequitas Veritas on 22/11/2009 15:41:22
Also remember that CCP changed the skillrequirments for the bomb launchers now. So we'll see lots more of these entering the battlefield! Only a small wings of these can do bn's of ISK damage to fighters and fighterbombers and unless killed will render the drone- and fighterbased damage completely neutered.
These changes makes the battlefield of EVE a lot more tactical than the current one where "whoever blobs most dreads win".
Jumpbrigde should never be moved to Motherships cause then then ud always know that there would be more ships coming whenever you found a gang to fight and that again would increase blobbing
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
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Flaming Lemming
Caldari
Puppeteer Press
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Posted - 2009.11.22 16:02:00 -
[1793]
Originally by: Stratio
What I would like to know is what is happening with the testing of Abathur's changes and the feedback from the community over 2 months?
Is it being avaluated? Was is discarded?
CCP will find it hard to get people to take part in SISI tests if their input is subsequently ignored all together.
Bolded and italicized for emphasis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thoughtcrime does not entail death: thoughtcrime is death |
Vengeance Raze
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.22 16:17:00 -
[1794]
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas
- Keep the "old DD". Remove the grid wide effect, give it a radius.
FYI, it has a radius, 200km from Titan.
I knew this before Saturdays little party. But it was confirmed when 2 titans appeared on grid at 204km and 209km from me, let of their DD's, my Maelstrom was in a bubble at the time.
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luvvaluvva
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.22 17:51:00 -
[1795]
Im no expert on caps but it seems ccps patch is leaving the two most expensive ships in game as pos ornaments.
Altho it seems the titan pilots might get the odd chance to instapop an unlucky mom.
There will certainly be neither seen on the battlefield, neither ship is worth the risk or effort.
The sov thing has potential with a bit of tweeking, then again weve all seen how delicately you tweek, you either half or double things.
As for the caps/supercaps, just a joke. Surely this is a laughable prank ccp??
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TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari
United Systems Navy
Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.22 18:41:00 -
[1796]
Edited by: TheLordofAllandNothing on 22/11/2009 18:42:53
Congrats CCP on replacing an excellent competent dev(Seleene) with a dev who has absolutely NO CLUE about capital ships at all, highlighted by the "target painter > dread" arguement.
This is not just about motherships, this is about the fact that all of EVEs capital pilots are now in a frothing rage at having someone with absolutely no knowledge put in control of the most expensive and powerful line of ships in the game which they invested an ENORMOUS amount of isk and gametime, measured in months or even years.
The main problem this highlights though is that ccp has absolutely no regard for the changes the players tested for many weeks on sisi. If CCP think they had problems getting adequate testing done by players before, how bad is it going to be now that you have taken something universally accepted by most players and thrown the changes away.
Get rid of Nozh, bring back Seleene, and the brilliant supercarrier changes he came up with.
_______________________
Fix rockets in '09 =( |
Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2009.11.22 18:54:00 -
[1797]
Deleting posts because they criticize you is a sign of incompetence.
And Dominion still looks good.
Pros:
Sov Changes - Some of the costs are stupid, and we were promised an exponential increase in sov costs, not a linear one. But its still not bad. Large alliances will occupy less crappy useless space which gives people more chance to become a renter of crappy useless space or a chance to attempt to move in and get barbecued by your local powerbloc. The system upgrades in good truesec are relatively substantial as well.
Pirate ships - The changes are nice. They will make much more viable ships.
Faction ships - Again the changes are nice. The paintjobs suck. The fleet pest is getting ****ed. Go Matari.
Planets - Minor aesthetic improvements. Very good looking improvements.
DDD removed from the game
Cons
MS gets screwed and the ship is not worth logging on except for basic insurance.
Naglfar got suprise butr4pe.
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Trupplupagus
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2009.11.22 19:17:00 -
[1798]
CCP Nozh is an incompetent git. Ban all mods. Stop deleting criticism from people who know what they are talking about.
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Tamahra
Gallente
Danke fuer den Fisch
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Posted - 2009.11.22 19:25:00 -
[1799]
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita
Deleting posts because they criticize you is a sign of incompetence.
And Dominion still looks good.
Pros:
Sov Changes - Some of the costs are stupid, and we were promised an exponential increase in sov costs, not a linear one. But its still not bad. Large alliances will occupy less crappy useless space which gives people more chance to become a renter of crappy useless space or a chance to attempt to move in and get barbecued by your local powerbloc. The system upgrades in good truesec are relatively substantial as well.
Pirate ships - The changes are nice. They will make much more viable ships.
Faction ships - Again the changes are nice. The paintjobs suck. The fleet pest is getting ****ed. Go Matari.
Planets - Minor aesthetic improvements. Very good looking improvements.
DDD removed from the game
Cons
MS gets screwed and the ship is not worth logging on except for basic insurance.
Naglfar got suprise butr4pe.
qft, a very accurate sum-up. But you forgot some pro¦s:
the speedboat mission arcs, they also look good.
and the new background stars. they also look good
new mail system, also good
new fleet finder, also a good thing
new browser, also looks good
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Sellyna
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Posted - 2009.11.22 19:29:00 -
[1800]
Originally by: Trupplupagus
CCP Nozh is an incompetent git. Ban all mods. Stop deleting criticism from people who know what they are talking about.
This is the best reply ever in this thread, had to be screenshotet before it's gone forever:
http://eve-files.com/dl/210681
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Red Woodson
Estrale Frontiers
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Posted - 2009.11.22 19:32:00 -
[1801]
I'd like to ask some questions, in the hope that CCP is still reading this thread, and will answer when they get back to work monday.
On the subject of the comment about target painters being needed for full damage from citadel missiles:
Are the missiles currently balanced around this assumption?
If so, are there plans to either allow target painters to ignore ewar immune status, or to re-balance the missiles knowing that most dread targets are immune to target painters.
If not, why do the missiles have such large damage reduction from sig radius, which drops their actual dps well below that of XL guns?
On the subject of MS:
Is it safe to assume that MS will get the HP and jump range boost currently on sisi, even though the blog states no changes will be made?
If not, what is your reasoning for not boosting the HP when also introducing the new titan superweapon?
On the subject of the naglfar:
What is your reasoning for returning to a split weapons bonus when just recently you admitted split weapons bonuses suck, and removed them from the naglfar? This is especially confusing based on recent pirate faction ship changes to also loose split weapons bonuses.
On the subject of other caps:
While you are looking at MS, any chance you can look at the nidhogger? It has the same slot layout as the thanatos, but lower CPU, PG, EHP, Cap, and drone bay, and a bonus that is arguably no better than the thantos's, while also, combined with the lowest carrier ehp, screaming 'Primary Me!' Personally, I'd like to see the nid become a shield tanker to match the other matari caps, something it currently can't do due to lack of cpu and lack of mids. One to two lows to mids, a little cap, and some cpu would be a good starting place imho. |
Cpt AngelNova
Amarr
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 19:52:00 -
[1802]
Originally by: Red Woodson
I'd like to ask some questions, in the hope that CCP is still reading this thread, and will answer when they get back to work monday.
On the subject of the comment about target painters being needed for full damage from citadel missiles:
Are the missiles currently balanced around this assumption?
If so, are there plans to either allow target painters to ignore ewar immune status, or to re-balance the missiles knowing that most dread targets are immune to target painters.
If not, why do the missiles have such large damage reduction from sig radius, which drops their actual dps well below that of XL guns?
On the subject of MS:
Is it safe to assume that MS will get the HP and jump range boost currently on sisi, even though the blog states no changes will be made?
If not, what is your reasoning for not boosting the HP when also introducing the new titan superweapon?
On the subject of the naglfar:
What is your reasoning for returning to a split weapons bonus when just recently you admitted split weapons bonuses suck, and removed them from the naglfar? This is especially confusing based on recent pirate faction ship changes to also loose split weapons bonuses.
On the subject of other caps:
While you are looking at MS, any chance you can look at the nidhogger? It has the same slot layout as the thanatos, but lower CPU, PG, EHP, Cap, and drone bay, and a bonus that is arguably no better than the thantos's, while also, combined with the lowest carrier ehp, screaming 'Primary Me!' Personally, I'd like to see the nid become a shield tanker to match the other matari caps, something it currently can't do due to lack of cpu and lack of mids. One to two lows to mids, a little cap, and some cpu would be a good starting place imho.
Good questions Sir.
I sugessted a 3 turret naglfar here
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1213864&page=6
post 153
Good point on the Nidoggur too
Boy my Ammatar side has really been showing lately
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Kassasis Dakkstromri
Caldari
Fallen Angel's
Blade.
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 19:53:00 -
[1803]
Man I am SOOO glad I am not a MOM pilot right now.... (qouted from mmorpg.com)
Noah Ward: "Unlike most other MMORPGs, with EVE we try to give every class of ship a clear role. It's not a simple game of bigger is better. It's more like a complex and nuanced game of Rock/Paper/Scissors. Unfortunately the poor Supercarrier (previously known as Mothership) never had a clear role much like the lion in Wizard of Oz didn't have a heart.
... Noah it was COURAGE that the lion didn't have mate --- COURAGE
Be affraid VERY affraid!
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Battle Tested
Shiva
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 20:25:00 -
[1804]
Originally by: Honest Smedley
Edited by: Honest Smedley on 21/11/2009 20:29:47
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
As quite new to the game and these patches drama, I'd like to ask one very very simple thing:
If the patch was going well and there was good consensus, did anyone at CCP post why it got completely scratched and redone (in an impopular way)?
CCP Hammerhead essentially answered this.
In the form everyone liked, they were too powerful and (combined with titans) lent too much of an advantage to established 0.0 alliances. Basically, those who can currently field them would hold an insurmountable advantage over those who currently can't.
In the nerfed version, motherships weren't powerful enough to justify their cost or inability to dock. They also obsoleted carriers. This lead CCP down a path (lowering production cost, making them dockable, etc.) that was both disliked by the playerbase, and by CCP. They were therefore reverted.
Motherships will continue to not be compelling over carriers because CCP doesn't understand or hasn't been able to implement the special sauce that will make them so. Simply making them WTF ownzor carriers is not going to do it, because it is unbalancing and will have to be changed again later. Changes have thus been delayed until after Dominion.
The collective player base whining about the matter needs to stop being butt-hurt by changes to things being changed on the friggin' test server. CCP needs to stop dev blogging about changes on the test server as though they're promised features for the next expansion.
The simple solution to this is to just remove the shield/energy/armor transfer bonuses to motherships so that the carrier remains as the capital logistics ship. replace the logistics bonus on the mothership to a damage bonus to fighters so that now the mothership is a dps machine vs a remote repping tank. give it the hp buff for survivability and there you have it, if you want to deploy it in fleet it needs carriers for logistical support, same with titans. |
cpu939
Gallente
Volatile Nature
Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 20:25:00 -
[1805]
Originally by: Red Woodson
I'd like to ask some questions, in the hope that CCP is still reading this thread, and will answer when they get back to work monday.
On the subject of the comment about target painters being needed for full damage from citadel missiles:
Are the missiles currently balanced around this assumption?
If so, are there plans to either allow target painters to ignore ewar immune status, or to re-balance the missiles knowing that most dread targets are immune to target painters.
If not, why do the missiles have such large damage reduction from sig radius, which drops their actual dps well below that of XL guns?
On the subject of MS:
Is it safe to assume that MS will get the HP and jump range boost currently on sisi, even though the blog states no changes will be made?
If not, what is your reasoning for not boosting the HP when also introducing the new titan superweapon?
On the subject of the naglfar:
What is your reasoning for returning to a split weapons bonus when just recently you admitted split weapons bonuses suck, and removed them from the naglfar? This is especially confusing based on recent pirate faction ship changes to also loose split weapons bonuses.
On the subject of other caps:
While you are looking at MS, any chance you can look at the nidhogger? It has the same slot layout as the thanatos, but lower CPU, PG, EHP, Cap, and drone bay, and a bonus that is arguably no better than the thantos's, while also, combined with the lowest carrier ehp, screaming 'Primary Me!' Personally, I'd like to see the nid become a shield tanker to match the other matari caps, something it currently can't do due to lack of cpu and lack of mids. One to two lows to mids, a little cap, and some cpu would be a good starting place imho.
nice set of questions, i somehow see it being more of some of you whinned, moaned and you did personal attacks we don't like this and there for you get 0 of the changes on sisi
i do hope i am wrong on the hp boost change, but wil have to wait till dec 1st
they should also look at eh nidhigger if it has the same layout but less everything just to blance the ship.
as always they could remove tp from the ew group and there for would work on all ships inc super capitals, siege/triage capitals and maybe even poses
anyway i hope ccp will reply but don't hold your breath
0101011 001101111 011011000 110000101110100 01101001011011000 1100101001000000 1001110011000010 11101000111010101 11001001100101
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Elder Bob
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 20:53:00 -
[1806]
Why can't CCP leave the more... capable... developers to handle supercaps?
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 21:09:00 -
[1807]
Originally by: Kassasis Dakkstromri
Noah Ward: "Unlike most other MMORPGs, with EVE we try to give every class of ship a clear role. It's not a simple game of bigger is better. It's more like a complex and nuanced game of Rock/Paper/Scissors. Unfortunately the poor Supercarrier (previously known as Mothership) never had a clear role much like the lion in Wizard of Oz didn't have a heart.
... Noah it was COURAGE that the lion didn't have mate --- COURAGE
Be affraid VERY affraid!
Haha, I'm glad I'm not the only one that picked up on this. Even if he had said the tin man, it still would have been a stupid comment.
Speaking of which, Nozh reminds me of the scarecrow.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Saralle Zhukov
Minmatar
Win Tech
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 21:27:00 -
[1808]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Let's see...
"Target Painters Do NOT Work on Titans, Supercaps, Structures, or Sieged Caps"
On Titans and Supercapitals that doesn't matter as their Signature Radius is already very large to begin with. Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.
The Citadel Torpedoes don't do their full potential damage to Dreadnoughts, however they were balanced to do similar amounts of damage towards Dreadnoughts as XL Turrets with this in mind. Citadel Torpedoes have the ability to do more damage to larger targets.
To illustrate how it would have worked with Fighter Bombers, you can take a look at these graphs:
"Capital ship fights rarely if ever happen at short distances."
What I meant by this is that there aren't many situations where you get to fully utilize the short range weapons (especially the "6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I" and "Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I"), due to their poor optimal range and the fact that you can't dictate range while in siege mode. With high damage ammo on Tranquility, your damage output starts dropping rapidly at ~5km, in which case you might as well use the long range weapons.
"Docking games"
We can all agree that docking games are, well, lame. But this problem is across all ship classes, regardless of their hit-point count. Thus, this problem has to be solved by some other means than to limit docking for the capital fatties. We'd like to work on other solutions for this problem.
"Titans"
As stated in the blog, Titans primary role should not be direct damage. We still feel like they need more defined roles, this will be worked on along with proper Mothership changes.
"Well," (to quote my favorite American President) your clearly NOT listening to us, so I decided to talk in terms you CCP as a private market based company understand, I dropped one of my subscriptions until you send this guy to working on SOMETHING ELSE and put CCP ABUTHUR back in charge of Dominion, listen to the player base, delay Dominion until Abathur's changes are ready for release and we can all move on pretty much happy with your product. I hope the rest of you multiple account unhappy people out there get this, CCP only listens to the bottom line, i.e. making more or less money.
-----------------------------------
Kill them all God will know his own. |
Saralle Zhukov
Minmatar
Win Tech
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 21:52:00 -
[1809]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Hi, everyone
We have been carefully watching this thread and I want to set the record straight on a few misconceptions.
First, IÆd like to say that a single developer cannot come in and unilaterally change everything with no oversight. People are spewing a lot of hate at CCP Nozh but instead itÆs a case of shooting the messenger. He is just doing his job trying to improve the game and explain the reasoning for why changes were made. We work as a team and agree on the direction things are taking. We want the game to be balanced and fun for everyone to play. We also think about the future of the game and how it will be in years to come after our changes weighing the medium- and long-term repercussions.
...
Please remember that we are here to make a game that you all love to play. None of us comes to work thinking of ways to enrage the playerbase. As the Lead Game Designer, I take my responsibility seriously and that includes taking responsibility for any decisions made by our team. To me, EVE is much more than a job, itÆs something IÆm passionate about constantly improving. I promise you I want EVE to thrive just as much as you do.
Thanks for listening
CCP Hammerhead
Lead Game Designer
Again, since you still insist on not directly addressing our concerns:
"Well," (to quote my favorite American President) your clearly NOT listening to us, so I decided to talk in terms you CCP as a private market based company understand, I dropped one of my subscriptions until you send this guy to working on SOMETHING ELSE and put CCP ABATHUR back in charge of Dominion, listen to the player base, delay Dominion until Abathur's changes are ready for release and we can all move on pretty much happy with your product. I hope the rest of you multiple account unhappy people out there get this, CCP only listens to the bottom line, i.e. making more or less money.
-----------------------------------
Kill them all God will know his own. |
Kilhu Emmek
Minmatar
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 22:24:00 -
[1810]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
First, IÆd like to say that a single developer cannot come in and unilaterally change everything with no oversight. People are spewing a lot of hate at CCP Nozh but instead itÆs a case of shooting the messenger. He is just doing his job trying to improve the game and explain the reasoning for why changes were made. We work as a team and agree on the direction things are taking.
So which part of the team didn't realize you can't paint ... oh, you know, forget it. You're not reading it anyway.
It was a little easier to bear when it was possible to think there was only ONE person this incompetent and unfamiliar with game mechanics. A whole TEAM? wow.
--
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|
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ByFstugan
Caldari
Big Shadows
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 22:39:00 -
[1811]
I just wanna say to CCP that imo U ruin my largest hopes for this expansion - the supercarriers. I thought the changes U had on the table was awesome and in many areas exactly what I would like to see since earlier.
The EHP buff of course, that's a given since EVE has evolved big time since they were introduced and were basically indestructable and today could almost be instapopped.
The price - I really think what U went for was about right (would probably end up in a 10 billion isk market price) in the long run, even if some former owners doesn't like it due to some isk-loss or perhaps even more due to not be as special any more.
The docking I really think is good since I don't like the idea about being trapped in a ship or having to have an extra account just due to this no docking thing. I think the risk for docking games could be balanced with new rules about docking timers or using SC's aggressivly on station grids. Even if nothing was changed EVE doesn't revolve around some station grid (thats not said it shouldn't be balanced, just not that what ppl shout so loudly about doesn't ruin that much as some make it sound like).
The less amount of drones per level wasn't anything I hoped for, but in all the changes makes this a smaller issue. I just think it could be compensaded in some other way so the ship doesn't loose to much regular drone-power. For example give SC's 2 drones also per Drone Control Unit or make that module add an damage/hp bonus to drones/fighters (or a new module with that function).
The issue about those 0,002% filthy rich persons that had chance to own a MS before Dominion I think is a non-issue if U look how changes has been made earlier (i.e the Equipement Assembly Array that I bought at 450 millions that suddenly was worth 54 millions after some patch) and how the changes should be made in a game that's constantly evolving/balansing. The primary thing must be to make something good for times to come - eventhough there are always many really opposite opinions among the players (and even in CCP I'd guess) what that should be.
I think the Super Carrier change was postponed due to a insane amount of ugly namedropping and smacking with little to none real arguments in 95% of the posts (for sure many alt-posts also). And the arguments made were mainly done due to very weak arguments. One of them being the view upon what a super capitals is or should be - something that I can't imagine there are anything else than vauge definitions about. And in a game always evolving one cannot be stucked in old views to much - evenless in a view not even almost certain to be correct. The other large argument was the docking issue, that was discussed as there were no way to balance this without keeping them undockable. Of course that's possible to fix in many ways. And last the argument about what former owner might loose in value on their ships was definetly nothing to smack so loudly about since first of all such things must happen in this game - and even less since CCP said they looked in ways to make the current owner compensated in some way.
I hope CCP change again and do make the changes that was last on the table (in a balanced way) so that we can see this long over due change. Otherwise I really really hope the next change (VERY soon) brings more types of capitals with very tasty new roles that make EVE a more complete world (i.e Super Carriers + a new role Mothership). What I fear if the Super Carrier change gets postponed is that the coming change takes far to long time - which we as EVE-players are used to - but don't need to like (or do like).
_______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Tetragamatron Omega
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 22:42:00 -
[1812]
Mothership was clearly overpowered on SISI. No wonder so many tears when MS pilots thought they were going to be the new age titan pilots destroying entire fleets with **** in hand.
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ByFstugan
Caldari
Big Shadows
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 22:51:00 -
[1813]
Originally by: Tetragamatron Omega
Mothership was clearly overpowered on SISI. No wonder so many tears when MS pilots thought they were going to be the new age titan pilots destroying entire fleets with **** in hand.
Even if so would be that they are to powerful there should be many such ships popping really fast when one such ship gets to be the primary target for 20-30 similar ships with perhaps 50 dreads also (and bubbles all over). The largest change in EVE then should be how many dead mothership/supercarriers we get to see. Not that one alliance/powerblock get them all and are invincible.
But the more basic fix to this is a sound balance issue if they get to good - which no ship should be alone.
_______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.22 23:30:00 -
[1814]
the people who are coming in saying they dont see what the problem is with the proposed terrible changes...
Read.
Reducing the price is unacceptable. Simple as that. This ship should not be More accessable. It completely screws over current builders and owners and BPO owners. Its completely terrible thinking.
The proposed bombers- they came at a price, a stupid price. The price of losing 20 fighters. Reducing drone usage down to 10 or 15 on all drones was what was proposed. What the hell? People said ok- use 20 fighters/drones and set it so they can only use 15 bombers. CCP did not do this at any point. All drones were restricted to 10/15. losing 5/10 drones from current motherships use is unacceptable.
The proposed bombers were completely useless.
No there are not! yes they are. It worked out that sodding 20 fighters did more damage that the origianlly proposed 3600 explo radius bombers on dreads or moving carriers. Needing to target paint and web your targets- especially when your targets cant be webbed (supercaps) or target painted (supercaps/sieged/triaged caps) is just ******ed. Might as well use fighters.
Graphs saying but if you could use 2 webs and 3 target painters and 5 drone control units everything would be fine is just FACEPALM SPECTACULAR.
The suggestions given to us were just terrible in their given ways. The playerbase SCREAMED ideas to fix the caps, the player base said DONT REDUCE COST, the player base said DONT LET THEM DOCK, the player base said THEY NEED 20 FIGHERS, the player base said RESTRICT BOMBERS to 15 if needed.
Right now- this is what is on sisi. The sisi version is getting something like it should be. Whats needed now are for the bombers to do roughly 2 dreads worth of damage- somewhere from 6000 to 8000 dps with bombers on DREADNAUGHTS without needing any target painters or webbers on those dreads in or out of siege.
From there take off triage and clone vat bays and the jobs a good un. These ships will be balanced, used, require carrier and supports to help protect them, will do damage reasonable to their cost, will provoke a fight having them used on the field, will see systems without sov 4 with CSAAs get more hostile attention.
This is good. Docking 6b EHP monsters with 10 bombers which only damage non-moving carriers is not good. The community should be proud they got these terrible suggestions stopped. The original design worked, was Dev suggested, player supported, CCP have only their own selves to blame for U-turning on them and creating havoc with such terrible 'new' or 'totally bizarre no role made up no brain' ideas which crap on the eve 0.0 playerbase.
When you have Alliance LEADERS from the top 10 0.0 alliances in numbers (thats about 60k members or something?) saying the changes are bad, they speak for 99% of their membership. The other 1% of their members are idiots who post with noobcorp alts who want a cheap 6b ****** ship and have no reguard for the Massive losses their exsisting pilots and super cap producers would suffer isk wise.
-Take that!
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ByFstugan
Caldari
Big Shadows
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.23 00:37:00 -
[1815]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
the people who are coming in saying they dont see what the problem is with the proposed terrible changes...
Read.
Reducing the price is unacceptable. Simple as that. This ship should not be More accessable. It completely screws over current builders and owners and BPO owners. Its completely terrible thinking.
Any reason for that U think the ship shouldn't be more accessable? Doesn't matter much since if it would change to be it will and that would be one of the many ways this game evolving. But there are no objective truth that MS's changed to SC's must be super-rare - and when the new motherships come we will get a ship that really is and fills the void that the SC's might leave if they become more common.
The owners (about 0,002% of the players I think) were supposed to be compensated. The builders (much less percentage of the filthy rich players) would still make billions and billions on each SC they would build and wouldn't in any way get poor. How do U figure the builders get screwed? By a potential mariginal less insanly large profit?
Originally by: Kraken Kill
The proposed bombers- they came at a price, a stupid price. The price of losing 20 fighters. Reducing drone usage down to 10 or 15 on all drones was what was proposed. What the hell? People said ok- use 20 fighters/drones and set it so they can only use 15 bombers. CCP did not do this at any point. All drones were restricted to 10/15. losing 5/10 drones from current motherships use is unacceptable.
The proposed bombers were completely useless.
No there are not! yes they are. It worked out that sodding 20 fighters did more damage that the origianlly proposed 3600 explo radius bombers on dreads or moving carriers. Needing to target paint and web your targets- especially when your targets cant be webbed (supercaps) or target painted (supercaps/sieged/triaged caps) is just ******ed. Might as well use fighters.
Graphs saying but if you could use 2 webs and 3 target painters and 5 drone control units everything would be fine is just FACEPALM SPECTACULAR.
Originally by: Kraken Kill
Right now- this is what is on sisi. The sisi version is getting something like it should be. Whats needed now are for the bombers to do roughly 2 dreads worth of damage- somewhere from 6000 to 8000 dps with bombers on DREADNAUGHTS without needing any target painters or webbers on those dreads in or out of siege.
I think one of the large reasons to the less amount of drones has to do with lag and creating less lag - and this will be something we can't avoid. Even if I think one of the cool thing with todays MS's is that they can launch a massive swarm even graphically and not only DPS-wise.
And I totally agree that the Fighter Bombers need to be balances when/if introduced (without needing silly amount of web/painters and such).
Originally by: Kraken Kill
The suggestions given to us were just terrible in their given ways. The playerbase SCREAMED ideas to fix the caps, the player base said DONT REDUCE COST, the player base said DONT LET THEM DOCK, the player base said THEY NEED 20 FIGHERS, the player base said RESTRICT BOMBERS to 15 if needed.
The playerbase didn't only say that, but if U only read the angry smack with low percentage in arguments that might be true. However the playerbase had more opinions and much more mixed one (in favor of some of the things U mentioned but not others).
_______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
ByFstugan
Caldari
Big Shadows
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.23 00:45:00 -
[1816]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
From there take off triage and clone vat bays and the jobs a good un. These ships will be balanced, used, require carrier and supports to help protect them, will do damage reasonable to their cost, will provoke a fight having them used on the field, will see systems without sov 4 with CSAAs get more hostile attention.
There might be a most personal point of view what's this ships damage in relation to cost would be, and I'm sure that there isn't one answer to that question. I think that a SC that with the price reduction most likelly would go for about 10B (probably 15B+ in beginning) without fitting would be a pretty high price to pay compared to a Dread (with instadamage) at about 1.5 billion.
Originally by: Kraken Kill
This is good. Docking 6b EHP monsters with 10 bombers which only damage non-moving carriers is not good. The community should be proud they got these terrible suggestions stopped. The original design worked, was Dev suggested, player supported, CCP have only their own selves to blame for U-turning on them and creating havoc with such terrible 'new' or 'totally bizarre no role made up no brain' ideas which crap on the eve 0.0 playerbase.
I think the havoc was mostly due to a mob like part of the playerbase - and to CCP it should be an almost impossible task to give all sides satisfaction. Some want change in many areas, some in few and many differ in what areas. My larges concern with the results of last change in this topic is when will we ever see this ships (MS's) fixed.
Originally by: Kraken Kill
When you have Alliance LEADERS from the top 10 0.0 alliances in numbers (thats about 60k members or something?) saying the changes are bad, they speak for 99% of their membership. The other 1% of their members are idiots who post with noobcorp alts who want a cheap 6b ****** ship and have no reguard for the Massive losses their exsisting pilots and super cap producers would suffer isk wise.
-Take that!
Well, to say that alliance leaders speak for 99% of their players is simply not true. We are both in same alliance leadership and we have different opinions - and I know more with my opinions even in our ledership (perhaps not always in all topics here though, but in several criticals ones). How much more must there not be in the alliances as whole then? I'm rather sure that more than 90% of those with opinions in this matters haven't even typed in the relevant threads - and even less X:d in the "I passivly agree with my alliance leader".
To call those with different opinion than their alliance leaders for idiots doesn't say half as much about them (us?) as it does about your way of handling this "argument". And of those who want a cheaper SC than ~15B (with about 3-4B profit for builder) the new price wont be the production cost of 6B, but more like 10B (with 3-4B profit for builder). And even if they would get abit less profit in the long run those with their MS-building-program active now will probably earn MANY billions extra per SC in the first time of the new SC's. What's for sure is that noone poor will be a victim and no of the mentioned will become poor (but instead very much richer concering the builders, the owners was supposed to be compensated).
As a closure I mostly hope CCP give MS's the long over due balance they need and hopefully at 1:st of december and not in a year or two.
_______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
LV425
Caldari
Turbo Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.11.23 01:42:00 -
[1817]
CCP the sov changes are great Dread adjustments and titan changes are sensible but.....
Motherships: :(
Improve DPS
Improve EHP
Improve Jump range
Let us want to use some of the coolest ships in the game.
Leave everything else alone.
CCP your going to lose many veterans if you do not give us something to look forward too in Dominion.
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Misanth
Reaper Industries
|
Posted - 2009.11.23 02:20:00 -
[1818]
Originally by: Battle Tested
The simple solution to this is to just remove the shield/energy/armor transfer bonuses to motherships so that the carrier remains as the capital logistics ship. replace the logistics bonus on the mothership to a damage bonus to fighters so that now the mothership is a dps machine vs a remote repping tank. give it the hp buff for survivability and there you have it, if you want to deploy it in fleet it needs carriers for logistical support, same with titans.
Am pretty sure this is why the Abathur-version of the MS didn't get through. The RR capability. CCP probably looked at "hmm, alot of MS in a blob, with increased EHP" - and since the useless capital repper, everyone would buffer them to hell and back with max resists - "..plus alot more damage from the FB's". They expect MS-blobs, e-war immune RR groups with high damage.
Removing the capital RR ability from the MS would instantly make this argument die out.
Then again, that'd force CCP to actually make the cap repper useful instead. With the bonused hp that was on SiSi, it took me over an hour to rep full armor with 2 cap reppers. That, right there, is a useless module and screaming for buffer tanks and RR.
CCP is currently painting themselves into a corner as far as I'm concerned. Do they want a logistic boat, or a damage dealing boat? They can't increase hp/dmg without nerfing RR, and they can't nerf RR without boosting selfrep - and in both cases the hp is a necessity, especially with the amount of caps/titans this game has now.
So in conclusion.. we have a ship that badly need more hp. That's where you gotta start. Then next in line is to chose if you want the logistic approach, or the damage approach. I vote in case one we go the route with new logistic modules and no FB introduction, in case two we ditch the RR capabilities for FB and similar.
CCP hasn't made much sense lately tho, so who knows what reason they file for MS being 'too powerful' in the Abathur-version, but the only reason I can see would be the MS-RR-blobs. Irony however, is that the Nozh-suggestions with cheaper production and them being dockable, would make this whole problem alot worse.
I'm really really worried right now, not for the MS sake. But EVE as a whole. The devs don't seem to know what the hell they're doing, there's not much logic going on.
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I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
ByFstugan
Big Shadows
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.23 02:31:00 -
[1819]
Originally by: Misanth
Am pretty sure this is why the Abathur-version of the MS didn't get through. The RR capability. CCP probably looked at "hmm, alot of MS in a blob, with increased EHP" - and since the useless capital repper, everyone would buffer them to hell and back with max resists - "..plus alot more damage from the FB's". They expect MS-blobs, e-war immune RR groups with high damage.
Removing the capital RR ability from the MS would instantly make this argument die out.
Then again, that'd force CCP to actually make the cap repper useful instead. With the bonused hp that was on SiSi, it took me over an hour to rep full armor with 2 cap reppers. That, right there, is a useless module and screaming for buffer tanks and RR.
CCP is currently painting themselves into a corner as far as I'm concerned. Do they want a logistic boat, or a damage dealing boat? They can't increase hp/dmg without nerfing RR, and they can't nerf RR without boosting selfrep - and in both cases the hp is a necessity, especially with the amount of caps/titans this game has now.
So in conclusion.. we have a ship that badly need more hp. That's where you gotta start. Then next in line is to chose if you want the logistic approach, or the damage approach. Then next in line is to chose if you want the logistic approach, or the damage approach. I vote in case one we go the route with new logistic modules and no FB introduction, in case two we ditch the RR capabilities for FB and similar.
This is so on the spot imo - very well put.
My vote is to make the MS's into Battle Carriers (new name instead of Super Carriers) and keep the old ones as Logistics Carriers. I strongly also agree to a good buff to the internal rep - even with double or more active rep bonus it wont be much compared to the EHP atm.
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The wise knows what he knows not. |
Elsa Nietzsche
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Posted - 2009.11.23 03:11:00 -
[1820]
Edited by: Elsa Nietzsche on 23/11/2009 03:11:46
CCP,
you probably already know this but despite the terrible bad mouthing the player base is doing to you in this thread, it's because we care about the game. It's our job to fight you tooth and nail when you tell us you plan to do something ******ed. when you do something good, we keep playing and tell our friends they should play too.
if you continue to ignore us, the playerbase will slowly stop these threadnaughts. you'll think you've succeeded but what ends up happening is we'll just start leaving. slowly at first but then in droves.
as much as you hate this, you've put us in this position. you lead us by a string as to the changes you were going to make and then you stabbed us in the back. first off, you need to work on your communication. there's lots of specifics we dont know about and we're jumping to conclusions about. we just won't know what the patch holds until it's released. but at this time many of us assume the worst.
second, this back peddling is a slap in the face. this u-turn makes me wonder if there's some kind of drama going on internally at CCP. but that's not my business. on top of that, your dev who posts the dev blog doesn't even understand the basics of capital combat. either a) you guys are changing things we dont know about and nozh making very misguided statements (maybe when he says cap fights dont happen at close range...oh **** it, i'm not even going to try to defend him) or b) you and your entire dev team just really don't know how your game works. i really hope it's A but everything is pointing to B. you guys have one week to fix this fiasco or you can delay the patch. personally, most of the community doesn't seem to mind if you delay it but i fear you're ego may not let you be mature enough to realize the depth of your mistakes and you'll push it out anyway.
There are many good things about the patch. the IGB is awesome. the graphics are pretty. while the sov bit isn't perfect, it's a start. hope you can commit to developing it to the level it needs to be.
The ball is in our court CCP. We can only sit back and wait to see how you handle this situation. You have our views on the topic. your move.
[1591] p54
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Teck7
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.23 03:29:00 -
[1821]
Edited by: Teck7 on 23/11/2009 03:31:49
Marketing department and executives already have it set in stone on the release date of dominion and doubtful at best there is any margin for deviation on the release date this late in the game. However, it is all a rather moot point as in the last 3 dev blog threads, CCP more or less stops replying all together after a certain point and indications in this thread are that we have passed that point.
There are many well articulated constructive comments and more importantly constructive questions in allot of the recent threads that were never addressed and CCP has made little to no effort to even bother tending to the community concerns at large. Dominion is coming one way or another and CCP is content on putting it out there the way they want it, not the way the community wants it.
I can not speak for other groups but I know one thing for sure, there is a large portion of very disappointed players within atlas, especially the veterans, who have all but given up on eve and are not even logging in anymore and/or are in the process of selling there accounts. Dominion is nothing but a string of broken promises, broken concepts and inadequate solutions (read: lazy programming) to some of the longest standing problems with eve. Allot of the older player base I think was holding out hope that dominion would revitalize the excitement in eve for them but it has become clear that is neither the case nor the ability of CCP any longer.
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gigawonacome
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Posted - 2009.11.23 05:03:00 -
[1822]
Alright guys after hearing about the cap nerfs me and my associate, kenna, have come up with a plan. Since he has nothing but hatred for ccp for the nerfs, he will assault ccp devs in the bathrooms at fanfest next year. But here is where I come in, after he is done gathering up multiple assault charges I will come into the bathroom with some Vaseline, dump it on the unconscious devs and then proceed to drop pubes on them; that way the pubes stick to the vaseline and they will be all pubey for fanfest. Afterwards, I shall bid kenna goodbye in the form of river dance and sacrifice myself for the f*** ccp cause, ill rub myself completely with vaseline and cover myself in pubes so that they stick to me. Then I shall run around fanfest and find the remaining devs (except abathurà.٩๏̯͡๏)۶) and hug them/tackle if theyÆre unwilling so that the pubes and the vaseline will stick to them as well. It is a daunting undertaking and requires many citizens of New Eden to grow out their pubes and mail them to me. If u are interested in participating in the operation for eve online freedom/martyrdom talk to me in private chat. DonÆt worry, I have checked international mailing legislature and it is indeed legal to send pubes in the mail virtually anywhere, except Iceland so I shall have to smuggle them in somehow. Wish me luck and god bless.
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.23 05:15:00 -
[1823]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 23/11/2009 05:22:15
I would love to see another response/update from Nozh. Preferably one that doesn't begin with "Let's see..." and doesn't involve graphs with target painters on dreads. I feel a bit more time could be devoted to this issue, given the importance of caps and supercaps to the entirety of 0.0. Say...a 30 minute Q & A session? It's something that should have been done before this all became a severe sh*tstorm.
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"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Mera Lehbo
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Posted - 2009.11.23 06:28:00 -
[1824]
At this point Dominion is going to contain absolutely nothing for revitalizing 0.0. The massive HP of the sov structures combined with a maximum two-hour variance in reinforcement timers ensure that the status quo sov holders will not be threatened at all. The upgrades to individual income are underwhelming and none of them out-earn L4 missions, which will draw zero new players to nullsec. In addition, making upkeep a direct isk sink instead of something fueled by player-mined ice will ensure a deflationary flow of isk out of nullsec instead of into it.
And now almost all of the promised ship changes, from assault frigates to motherships, have been rolled back, and titans are apparently being reclassified as "super-logistics" ships enjoying no significant turret capabilities, which will only further cement the current "bring more dreads = win" stagnancy of major fleet fights. The only major ship changes that have stuck are the pirate faction ships which won't affect fleet warfare in 0.0 since their expense means they'll only be used as expensive solo or PvE toys.
Most of the remaining significant changes won't affect nullsec at all, giving the lie to the title of the expansion back. In addition, many of these changes are being announced, radically altered, re-announced, and presented for user feedback mere weeks before the scheduled release of Dominion. One would be forgiven by looking at the level of detail presented that the devs spent the past year obsessing over the rendering of Caldari Prime while procrastinating on the nitty-gritty mechanics of fleet warfare and the nullsec sov system.
The visible uncertainty with which they have approached this expansion pack is a telling sign of a rushed development process. Rather than release an incomplete expansion which would severely harm the game and discourage their subscriber base, CCP should bite the bullet and delay the expansion pack until more of the promised game changes can be implemented.
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Dynaverse Corporation
Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.11.23 06:55:00 -
[1825]
Originally by: Mera Lehbo
At this point Dominion is going to contain absolutely nothing for revitalizing 0.0. The massive HP of the sov structures combined with a maximum two-hour variance in reinforcement timers ensure that the status quo sov holders will not be threatened at all. The upgrades to individual income are underwhelming and none of them out-earn L4 missions, which will draw zero new players to nullsec. In addition, making upkeep a direct isk sink instead of something fueled by player-mined ice will ensure a deflationary flow of isk out of nullsec instead of into it.
I partially agree with one part of this.
I do agree that the 2 hour timer puts to much advantage to the defender to hold SOV, and I would prefer a 3 or 4 hour varience to add a proper element of chance. Perhaps the current reasoning is that SOV will be easier to defend, while maintaining the upgrades in a system will be more difficult to maintain and easier for small groups to disrupt.
The HP value of SOV structures does not bother me, compared with the massive amount of damage that has to be dealt to clear a system of POS's currently.
Adding up to 20 high end anomalies to a system is a huge infusion of isk to the average null sec income over current levels, vastly outpacing the outlay of upkeep paid to keep those systems upgraded and in SOV. A 10% tax on the income generated by just one anomaly pays for the most expensive level of upkeep you might pay.
Originally by: Mera Lehbo
And now almost all of the promised ship changes, from assault frigates to motherships, have been rolled back, and titans are apparently being reclassified as "super-logistics" ships enjoying no significant turret capabilities, which will only further cement the current "bring more dreads = win" stagnancy of major fleet fights. The only major ship changes that have stuck are the pirate faction ships which won't affect fleet warfare in 0.0 since their expense means they'll only be used as expensive solo or PvE toys.
Assault Frigate and Mothership changes are the only parts that have been delayed, hardly "almost all". I'm not 100% behind the direction Titans are taking, but the DD change was a step in the right direciton. We'll have to see where they go from here.
Pirate faction ship changes are not the only ship changes that take place in Dominion.
Originally by: Mera Lehbo
Most of the remaining significant changes won't affect nullsec at all, giving the lie to the title of the expansion back. In addition, many of these changes are being announced, radically altered, re-announced, and presented for user feedback mere weeks before the scheduled release of Dominion. One would be forgiven by looking at the level of detail presented that the devs spent the past year obsessing over the rendering of Caldari Prime while procrastinating on the nitty-gritty mechanics of fleet warfare and the nullsec sov system.
Different groups work on different aspects of the game. You know this.
Originally by: Mera Lehbo
The visible uncertainty with which they have approached this expansion pack is a telling sign of a rushed development process. Rather than release an incomplete expansion which would severely harm the game and discourage their subscriber base, CCP should bite the bullet and delay the expansion pack until more of the promised game changes can be implemented.
I agree that the development process appears rushed on certain aspects of this release, but they have deadlines to achieve like any other gaming software company. Late changes in the development process are not uncommon in EVE, or with any other major player in the gaming software industry. Since we have more input in the testing process than most consumers enjoy, it is more apparent to us when this is the case.
Since the bulk of this expansion if in relatively good shape, it should be released on time unless other problems arise which we may be unaware of. Just don't dilly dally on the rest.
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If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Mera Lehbo
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Posted - 2009.11.23 07:25:00 -
[1826]
By ship changes I'm not just referring to hull classes. For instance, if you're a Minmatar pilot, the projectile weapons buff as envisioned by CCP is depressingly minor and does nothing to address the major issues of large artillery (fitting and tracking), and the capital weapons changes now mean that Naglfar pilots must train yet another skill (cruises) to 5 in order to get the full benefit of their ship even though its bonuses are being reverted back into irrelevance.
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Dynaverse Corporation
Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.11.23 07:37:00 -
[1827]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 23/11/2009 07:39:10
Originally by: Mera Lehbo
By ship changes I'm not just referring to hull classes. For instance, if you're a Minmatar pilot, the projectile weapons buff as envisioned by CCP is depressingly minor and does nothing to address the major issues of large artillery (fitting and tracking), and the capital weapons changes now mean that Naglfar pilots must train yet another skill (cruises) to 5 in order to get the full benefit of their ship even though its bonuses are being reverted back into irrelevance.
On the Nag, I agree they should have tweaked the current bonus arrangement rather than gone back to the old split weapon bonus.
That being said we will have to see how the new projectile/ammo changes pan out, and that includes the Nag with the added wrinkle of a new weapons system and missile tweaks.
That's beside the point however. You argued that almost all of the ship changes had been rolled back. I'm pointing out that that is not the case. Changes that you don't necessarily agree with do not equal "rolled back", and changes to 2 specific ship classes, projectile weapon balancing and the Nags bonus certainly do not add up to "almost all" of the ship changes in Dominion.
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If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.11.23 08:21:00 -
[1828]
Edited by: Gnulpie on 23/11/2009 08:22:40
So, let's see ...
Weeks and months of feedback from the test server, a really good pack of carriers, supercarriers and titans together with capital weapons, fighters and fighter bombers achieved. Then CCP suddenly thinks 'oh my oh my ... overpowered if they use it as remote repair blob' and then they say 'uh oh, no good, let us cancel ALL achivements' after 2 weeks of nonsens fiddelling around (docking moms, everyone? lol). So why not doing the first best thing and reduce remote rep capabilities on those supercarriers if you fear a rr blob?
Instead all capital weapon systems get changed under assumptions which are all invalid (long range cap battles, target painting etc.) and the motherhsip is reverted but the titan changes go through. Hello? Anyone there??
And what is going on here anyway?
Thousands of really worried and upset player posts pointing out over and over again what is wrong with these changes and what we got? 1 irreal reply from nozh (and his team?) and one off-topic damage control post from hammerhead. That's all?
So I ask again and will ask again and again: WHERE ARE THE NUMBERS???
Can we please, PLEASE have some NUMBERS? All stats and values of those new weapons and ammo. And please no more graphs, just the weapons and the numbers. And the ships and changes in boni.
A final note on the naglfar. It was said that the nag would have been a monster if unchanged. So what? The dps would have been a bit more than the average dread but still it would have had the weakest tank by far! Trading dps for tank seems only totally in order.
You just can't pick ONE property of the ship (dps) and ignore all other properties (tank, fitting, skills etc.)
And anyway, there was totally no NEED for ANY changes on the caps. The only reason why some changes was necessary was the titan and its weapons, but they are a joke anyway - doing as much damage as a dread but costs 50 times more?
And the current motherhsip are uhm ... yeah ... single shot pop. That can't be right, under no circumstances.
So my suggestion: cancel ALL changes to the caps and supercapitals.
Then work out the remote rep stuff for the moms so that there won't be invincible mothership rr blobs and there you are!
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mkmin
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Posted - 2009.11.23 08:36:00 -
[1829]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 23/11/2009 07:39:10
Originally by: Mera Lehbo
By ship changes I'm not just referring to hull classes. For instance, if you're a Minmatar pilot, the projectile weapons buff as envisioned by CCP is depressingly minor and does nothing to address the major issues of large artillery (fitting and tracking), and the capital weapons changes now mean that Naglfar pilots must train yet another skill (cruises) to 5 in order to get the full benefit of their ship even though its bonuses are being reverted back into irrelevance.
On the Nag, I agree they should have tweaked the current bonus arrangement rather than gone back to the old split weapon bonus.
That being said we will have to see how the new projectile/ammo changes pan out, and that includes the Nag with the added wrinkle of a new weapons system and missile tweaks.
That's beside the point however. You argued that almost all of the ship changes had been rolled back. I'm pointing out that that is not the case. Changes that you don't necessarily agree with do not equal "rolled back", and changes to 2 specific ship classes, projectile weapon balancing and the Nags bonus certainly do not add up to "almost all" of the ship changes in Dominion.
The positive ship changes that are supposedly being kept in are things that don't really matter, or are so insignificant to not really matter. A buff to faction ships doesn't matter because the faction ships are already functional. Introducing new faction ships will be a waste because they will be stupidly rare, unless they get handed out like candy. Only FW guys will have a chance of getting them, and the ones that will be in demand, no one will want to work for because that part of FW still hasn't been fixed. Even the new speedboat missions, though good in concept, will probably only be taken advantage of by a vast minority. The mission runners put a lot of work into their empire standings, and I, for one, won't be wrecking mine just for the speedboat missions, even though I absolutely LOVE my ceptor. The fleet finder is one of those things that's good in theory, but really was just a neat toy the devs wanted to work on instead of doing real work. And we get freakin' planets? I'm still waiting for the part where that's exciting. The capital changes? They're replacing something broken with something else broken, if at all, and what's not broken, they're breaking. Only one who comes out ahead on the capitals as far as I can tell is the revelation, but that's only because all the other dreads are getting nerfed. Whoopdie doo. The sov changes? The smaller alliances will push for sov at first, until they realize that the AFK empires can still defend their space while afk. Nerfing some moon mins buffed the others, meaning MORE opportunities for AFK empires to accumulate wealth and capitals, keeping out the smaller alliances. And the infrastructure hubs taking a freighter to deploy? With how deep the unclaimed territory will have to get into 0.0 to put them up? If anything smaller alliances will move to w-space, and avoid 0.0 altogether. Personally, I don't expect an expansion to revolutionize the game. I don't even expect to have input on the game mechanics. I just expect a business to treat their customers well, which I don't think CCP is succeeding at right now.
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Disecador
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Posted - 2009.11.23 09:03:00 -
[1830]
Originally by: Mera Lehbo
and titans are apparently being reclassified as "super-logistics" ships
They don't - cos Jump portal doesn't improve.
With it's current DD rof and turret damage, titans lose it 'anti-blob' function, - only insane will risk titans worth 60+ bill to kill a pair of dreads.
By the way, it's intresting to know, how it accords to 'small alliance capability to move 0.0-space', because blob in Dominion will be simply unstoppable. Without another blob. So, say hello to multiple locals 800+ and lags.
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2009.11.23 09:36:00 -
[1831]
The problems with having and keeping an 800 man blob are forming the blob out of competent people beforehand by succeding regularly, keeping coherence between the leadership and groups in the blob (no infighting), keeping the blob busy, and making the blob fun compared to doing small roams or pirating.
We blob cosistantly from an concentrated area and it works just fine. Titans are not particularly daunting unless they are backed up by an enemy blob anyway atm. Solo titan started trying to antiblob us there would be cloaky hictors and covops flying all over the place and people xing up with 75+k ehp ships left and right.
Titans are not anti-blob. The difficulty of keeping 800 people together is anti-blob.
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Zargyl
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.23 09:38:00 -
[1832]
I am just a PvE player who will probably never be able to fly such a huge ship. Even though that might be the case, when talk comes about these massive city-sized ships that are super-caps even PvE'ers like me do listen. Even if you canÆt fly them you surely do ogle at screenshots and like to hear stories told of their might.
So it does come as quite a sad surprise when one looks at some new dev blog this close before release and doesnÆt see the motherships we have been looking for. And it does also come as quite a disappointment when confronted with the quality of work put into it as well. WasnÆt the motherships rework communicated as one of the main features of Dominion (besides the Sov changes and the cool UI upgrades)?
As a scientist I am quite happy to see graphs, but graphs with no facts and no insight into the formulae and thoughts behind them are only good to impress kids going to elementary school.
The dev-blog is also contradictory - a fact that has already been pointed out by a myriad of other posters. We are told how vital a role is for the behemoths that are capital ships, but we arenÆt told what the role would be. ShouldnÆt this be the first thing fixed in a design process and not something that getÆs changed days before release?
Graphs for any kind of (scientific or not) model are worthless without insight into what parameters went into them and what assumptions were made. And balancing should be done either by looking at bare stats and not taking modules into account OR by taking modules into account in ALL cases. It looks like that in the considerations presented to us a mix was used. This does create a different set of parameters and you canÆt balance values if said values use different variables. And itÆs even worse when some parameters entered into your equations (which sadly are not shown) are wrong (like the target painting thingy).
Sadly this is not the Excellency we have been promised by CCP.
I do post this to point out the fact that not only mothership pilots do read this and are affected/disappointed in the quality of work that went into Mr. Nozh's article.
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Eniy Oh
Gallente
United Systems Navy
Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.23 09:44:00 -
[1833]
Originally by: ByFstugan
My vote is to make the MS's into Battle Carriers (new name instead of Super Carriers) and keep the old ones as Logistics Carriers. I strongly also agree to a good buff to the internal rep - even with double or more active rep bonus it wont be much compared to the EHP atm.
This would be a good solution I think. "Normal" carriers are about as "cheap" as faction/t2 battleships and tech 3 ships, which would justify their limited role. If then you need to buy about 4-5 times more to get a carrier that can deal DPS, it'd make perfect sense.
Anyone else agreeing?
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The one whose ship names don't pass the sanity test while the rest of him is rather sane |
IronGoldenEagle
The New Era
Huzzah Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.23 10:07:00 -
[1834]
Thx for the outporuing of support all, Ms pilots, titan pilots, Cap ship pilots and many non ones alike.
In just another example of how excited I was for the Abathur changes my friend and I had MSs lined up to be built (did not send in payment b4 the new annoucnments as we were 3rd and 4th in a cue respectivley) We had watched 2 MSs rip apart a sieged Dread with their fighter bombers and we wanted to be dual dropping our MSs into capital fleet fights, be they in system or in the enemies terrirtory. Finally, here was the chance to enjoy these ships that were supposed to be beasts but which we had seen relegated to assinging fighters from POS shields 95% of the time. Instead we are left with the same old thing, I've already dumped my Phoenix in disgust at its continuing ineffectiveness and I'm in the market for a CCP Nozh Capital Target Painter if anyone has one.
The next level of Eve, and really the last ones I ever wanted to achieve have been destroyed for me. My capitals no longer interest me, my alliance can never (huzzah or whoever Im with) take over all of 0 sec like people used to fear/dream of during the Great War, and now the next tiers of ships, MS and Titans, are now completely undesirable rather than just mostly. The lights are going out all over Tranquility, and no one knows when they will be lit again.
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Van Doren
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Posted - 2009.11.23 10:15:00 -
[1835]
8 Days left. Dunno why you all still bother. I guess you can all wish for a miracle but this expansion is no longer about cap ships. At least not about the MS and the Nag anymore.
It will probably be considered as a troll but they worked with the community and in the end, they did what they want putting all that work in the trash bin. Next year, we'll probably have Titans with paintballs, motherships with fighters painting POSes and dreads repping each other.
At least there is a new broswer and mail client. Not a total waste of time.
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.23 12:59:00 -
[1836]
Originally by: Eniy Oh
Edited by: Eniy Oh on 23/11/2009 09:51:14
Originally by: ByFstugan
My vote is to make the MS's into Battle Carriers (new name instead of Super Carriers) and keep the old ones as Logistics Carriers. I strongly also agree to a good buff to the internal rep - even with double or more active rep bonus it wont be much compared to the EHP atm.
This would be a good solution I think. "Normal" carriers are about as "cheap" as faction/t2 battleships and tech 3 ships, which would justify their limited role. If then you need to buy about 4-5 times more to get a carrier that can deal DPS, it'd make perfect sense.
Anyone else agreeing?
Edit: this would still shed tears come to think of it (mine as well, I fly a carrier also). Regular carriers as they are already provide a decent ammount of DPS (1500dps with 15 fighters) they'd then lose, hmm.
To be clear. I didn't mean the carrier of present date needed to be either nerfed from fighters or changed - I think they got a good balance as it is and their firepower isn't at all to much for a logistics carrier.
What's more important is that the "Battle Carriers" (if that's an acceptable name) is stripped from it's logistics bonuses and their bonuses applied to the new offensive role. Perhaps also some leadership bonuses should be applied?
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The wise knows what he knows not. |
afrobus
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Posted - 2009.11.23 14:13:00 -
[1837]
Originally by: mittani
At Fanfest, CCP kept going on about 'Excellence' as their corporate motto. Let's fling that at them. How exactly does this count as excellence, or god forbid 'hardening the **** up'? Is 'Excellence' ruining capitals with an incompetent after the playerbase had participated in a transparent, two-way feedback process that was widely hailed?
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EliteSlave
Minmatar
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.23 14:25:00 -
[1838]
Isnt it funny that these changes are brought about when a period of the CSM isnt in session?
onto the topic, these ships need a role fast and need it before dominion, atleast if a role isnt delegated by then atleast give them an HP buff so that they will be semi inline with the supercapital changes, it is highly needed or else it shows that CCP isnt willing to listen to the member base, its funny how these changes are being neglected and ignored.
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Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2009.11.23 14:49:00 -
[1839]
Originally by: Peryner
DAMN STRAIGHT!
Honestly I don't understand the "I'm a mothership polit and these changes are going to make me quit"
Maybe the fact that motherships as they are now will be two volleyed by titans, meaning that without at least an HP boost, the expensive ship they are stuck in is completely unusable (it will take like 15 seconds to light a cyno, jump in two titans an pop them).
Basically in any kind of dangerous situation MS are now confined inside a POS forcefield.
IMHO they need at a minimum to boost their HP.
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081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner
blog |
Zumbala
ICE is Coming to EVE
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.23 15:48:00 -
[1840]
Originally by: Tommy Blue
Edited by: Tommy Blue on 22/11/2009 00:20:34
Originally by: Honest Smedley
In the form everyone liked, they were too powerful
Because a ship that has a giant buffer tank, cannot dock, costs 8-10x more and does 2x (or was it 3x) more damage than a dread, and can only hit dreadnoughts is overpowered.
Actually yes.
Because then any tackled MS would just had to logoff, since it would have been impossible to kill it within the 10 minute timer, except by hotdropping 150 dreads in the top of it.
Risk, reward, etc...
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Honest Smedley
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Posted - 2009.11.23 16:06:00 -
[1841]
Edited by: Honest Smedley on 23/11/2009 16:07:18
Boosting the MS without obsoleting carriers:
1.) Allow carriers to use fighter bombers.
2.) Focus MS development in a different direction. (Logistics)
-> Reduce the number of active drones, fighters and fighter bombers on MSs to match carriers.
-> Move bonuses off DPS where present to remote armor/hull repair or shield/energy transfer.
-> Introduce low-slot MS module equivalents to gang links that boost navigation/shield.
-> Introduce mid-slot MS module equivalents to gang links that boost targeting/armor.
-> Give MSs bonuses to fit up to three MS gang link modules at a time.
-> Give MSs bonuses to MS gang link module bonuses comparable to what Titans have today.
-> Radically increase the hangar size of MSs.
-> Increase the jump range of MSs.
-> Increase the effective hit points of MSs so they can withstand 3-4 titan DDs.
-> Remove their remote ECM burst ability.
3.) Nerf titans further. (Make them only compelling to own when they're on the battlefield)
-> Remove their ability to bridge other ships.
-> Remove their bonuses to gang links.
-> Return their turret bonus to 200%/level.
-> Introduce additional mutually-exclusive super weapons in the future to add value.
-> Add racial remote EW bursts similar to the ECM bursts MSs currently have as 'non-super' weapons.
-> Limit the racial remote EW bursts to 1 per Titan through fitting requirements.
4.) Never introduce another super cap class ship to EvE.
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Myrkala
Minmatar
Aurora Acclivitous
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Posted - 2009.11.23 16:11:00 -
[1842]
Posting with my new signature, read it people.
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NO SPLIT WEAPON BONUSES ON THE NAGLFAR PLEASE! |
Zumbala
ICE is Coming to EVE
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.23 16:20:00 -
[1843]
Originally by: Honest Smedley
3.) Nerf titans further. (Make them only compelling to own when they're on the battlefield)
-> Remove their ability to bridge other ships.
You know that titan bridge is actually the only thing that does not seems overpowered on titan, right?
Originally by: Honest Smedley
4.) Never introduce another super cap class ship to EvE.
At least we agree on this one. Titan should never have been introduced into Eve, as a start.
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Dante Edmundo
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Posted - 2009.11.23 16:26:00 -
[1844]
Edited by: Dante Edmundo on 23/11/2009 16:27:38
Postpone SOV nul-sec changes - release everything else. Nothing has received the amount of negative response than these SOV/CAPITAL SHIP proposed changes. Almost every other new feature in Dominion has been met with positive if not enthusiastic welcome. So why not just release the good - and work on polishing SOV more since many players clearly dislike the proposed changes - whether they actually will work or not really doesn't matter at this point.
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Viggen
Caldari
The Lunatic Asylum
Notorious Organization of Brothers
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Posted - 2009.11.23 16:30:00 -
[1845]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: Peryner
DAMN STRAIGHT!
Honestly I don't understand the "I'm a mothership polit and these changes are going to make me quit"
Maybe the fact that motherships as they are now will be two volleyed by titans, meaning that without at least an HP boost, the expensive ship they are stuck in is completely unusable (it will take like 15 seconds to light a cyno, jump in two titans an pop them).
Basically in any kind of dangerous situation MS are now confined inside a POS forcefield.
IMHO they need at a minimum to boost their HP.
Motherships have gone back to there TQ state, but still have there HP buffs:-
BASE STATS:-
Aeon
TQ Hull - 287,500 ... SISI - 575,000
TQ Armour - 275,000 ... SISI - 1,100,000
TQ Shield - 212,500 ... SISI - 490,000
Nyx
TQ Hull - 300,000 ... SISI - 600,000
TQ Armour - 262,500 ... SISI - 1,050,000
TQ Shield - 225,000 ... SISI - 540,000
Wyvern
TQ Hull - 275,000 ... SISI - 550,000
TQ Armour - 237,500 ... SISI - 590,000
TQ Shield - 250,000 ... SISI - 1,000,000
Hel
TQ Hull - 262,500 ... SISI - 525,000
TQ Armour - 250,000 ... SISI - 600,000
TQ Shield - 237,500 ... SISI - 990,000
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Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.23 16:33:00 -
[1846]
Edited by: Sertan Deras on 23/11/2009 16:33:06
I see CCP has gone in to full "put fingers in ears and go lalalala" mode.
e: If they don't at least keep the HP buffs (as Sisi seems to indicate they are), CCP truly has lost it's mind.
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Pelleaon
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Posted - 2009.11.23 16:44:00 -
[1847]
Edited by: Pelleaon on 23/11/2009 16:44:23
Originally by: Dante Edmundo
Edited by: Dante Edmundo on 23/11/2009 16:27:38
Postpone SOV nul-sec changes - release everything else. Nothing has received the amount of negative response than these SOV/CAPITAL SHIP proposed changes. Almost every other new feature in Dominion has been met with positive if not enthusiastic welcome. So why not just release the good - and work on polishing SOV more since many players clearly dislike the proposed changes - whether they actually will work or not really doesn't matter at this point.
I like the new sov-changes.
Oh: And **** those guys who go like "We
all liked those Supercap-changes" cause
i don't like it and i don't want to get mixed
up with those bull****ting ppl.
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Lalai Dama
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Posted - 2009.11.23 16:47:00 -
[1848]
Well one friend was wondering if a mass player exit could cause the end of eve.
I visioned myself, a demigod with my hardwires sitting in the rain on a dark day in a once active market place on a planet. Now abandoned. I see me repeating these epic words from Bladerunner end scene and it all made sense:
............................................
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Perimeter.
I watched Cerberus's glitter in the dark near Teonusude Gate.
All those moments will be lost in time like tears in the rain.
Time die
..........................................
ofc it is to mellow, and the end of eve is not near i hope but i felt like sharing
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Dante Edmundo
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Posted - 2009.11.23 16:54:00 -
[1849]
Originally by: Pelleaon
Edited by: Pelleaon on 23/11/2009 16:44:23
I like the new sov-changes.
Oh: And **** those guys who go like "We
all liked those Supercap-changes" cause
i don't like it and i don't want to get mixed
up with those bull****ting ppl.
So I see. Since you yourself like it the changes should go through? Never mind the large number of players who are unhappy with the new changes - as long as you like it then it's OK. Who cares about the people you play with right?
I guess that's the attitude CCP is taking now too. They like what they're doing, so why pay attention to their player base? Who cares about the players who play their game?
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Honest Smedley
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Posted - 2009.11.23 17:03:00 -
[1850]
Originally by: Zumbala
Originally by: Honest Smedley
3.) Nerf titans further. (Make them only compelling to own when they're on the battlefield)
-> Remove their ability to bridge other ships.
You know that titan bridge is actually the only thing that does not seems overpowered on titan, right?
I personally don't care for the effect titan bridges have on the game, so it is less of an issue of overpowered or not and more of a 'bad game design' issue from my perspective.
The root problem CCP has with Titans, however, is that they have enough logistical utility off the field to justify building them and not enough utility on the field to justify using them in a manner that puts them at risk. Remove jump bridging and any gang or warfare link related bonuses from them and titans sitting at POSes are worthless. To keep them worth owning, CCP would then have to increase the battlefield utility to compensate. Increasing damage on the guns and adding remote racial EW bursts is one step, but the promise of future mutually exclusive super weapons is clearly where the payoff would be.
The root problem CCP has with MSs is that they're currently big carriers with a logistics role and disproportionate penalties (cost and inability to dock). With Titans turned into battlefield terrors, MSs can take on a much more logistic-heavy role that solves most of the balancing issues CCP has. They would be significant logistical upgrades over a carrier to justify the added penalties, but no better (and perhaps even slightly worse) with respect to DPS.
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Aequitas Veritas
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.23 17:20:00 -
[1851]
Moving JPG to motherships is a very very bad move, ud then have fleets bridgeing all over the place. This would result in blobbing and less pvp since whenever you see 4 ships, u can be sure that there are another 10 sitting at a mom somewhere ready to jump in. The expense of the Titan prevents that somewhat.
With regards to Titans, do they still have the entirely useless 100% damage / level still? Cus the only thing we'll see is the continuing of driveby dd's if thats their only on field ability...
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
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Hrodgar Ortal
Minmatar
Ma'adim Logistics
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Posted - 2009.11.23 17:21:00 -
[1852]
If you can't balance a dual bonused naglfar can't you remove one of the types of weapons on it so we don't have to have 30% more training time? Will be even more obvious with the added citadel cruises I suspect. 30 days or so more to train.
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Honest Smedley
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Posted - 2009.11.23 17:34:00 -
[1853]
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas
Moving JPG to motherships is a very very bad move, ud then have fleets bridgeing all over the place. This would result in blobbing and less pvp since whenever you see 4 ships, u can be sure that there are another 10 sitting at a mom somewhere ready to jump in. The expense of the Titan prevents that somewhat.
With regards to Titans, do they still have the entirely useless 100% damage / level still? Cus the only thing we'll see is the continuing of driveby dd's if thats their only on field ability...
I'm not suggesting moving JBs over to MSs.
I'm suggesting getting rid of them entirely, or moving them to a POS-only thing.
JBs are a bad mechanic on Titans.
They would be a bad mechanic on MSs as well.
Do away with them.
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Aequitas Veritas
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.23 17:44:00 -
[1854]
I guess its CCPs way of doing it since the Titan can't bring ppl with it when itself jumps. That would be much better, but i suppose its hard to code :(
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
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Zumardam
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Posted - 2009.11.23 17:48:00 -
[1855]
Hum..Well Here goes à...As IÆve Been a Player now for a few years and have gave up on 0.0, since there is no way to set up a sov with all the greedy corps out there taking all space up... so i wait for devs to make it playable not die able for all in 0.0.....
Need a BORG type or Fluid Space type race like ion Voyager show to keep the Very Large Corps/Well Established ones in check so little guys can play EVE too in 0.0.
Something has to be done or ill just close my 3 accounts and wait for another Space type MMO to come along that has a playable 0.0 type space instead of sucking up to the corps that have SOV and wont let small guys start.
ItÆs too bad that EVE-ONLINE canÆt be fully Experienced by all Players New, Old or smaller groups. Death will surly come to those who donÆt Get more Subscriptions, Thought we wanted people to Play EVE not push them away or force them into Crappy Corps that ask you for a arm and leg to just the privilege to fly in there space.
Signed Longtime EVE Fan, Getting VERY VERY tired of the Politics in 0.0!
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Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.23 17:58:00 -
[1856]
The little guy will never get a foot hold in 0.0, because numbers matter. They matter in the real world, they matter in EVE. What the "little guy" actually wants is a welfare hand out, because their e-Honour or total lack of social skills prevents them from playing in the big kid pool. Why you think your 20 man corp should have any hope of taking space from a 2500 man corp, I don't know...but you seem to think that.
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Kozmic
Universal Army
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.11.23 18:04:00 -
[1857]
Sorry to see all the player feedback and SiSi testing go in vain.
To reiterate: please, revert changes to previous plans (put forward by CCP Abathur). They received a lot of positive feedback and extensive testing by actual players.
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John Zorg
Caldari
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.23 18:08:00 -
[1858]
Checking pages and pages of comments here, only like 2 posts from the devs with comments. They are either very busy trying to make their deadline or they don't really care what their player base thinks or wants. I think most of us are so involved in this game and would like to see it become even better than it really is...
Maybe a discussion would be an idea? Maybe just post some ideas from your side regarding the changes?... I can understand new ideas and concepts being secret but this is changing what we already have... some comments please devs...
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Baaldor
Igneus Auctorita
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.23 18:43:00 -
[1859]
Originally by: Zumardam
Something has to be done or ill just close my 3 accounts and wait for another Space type MMO
That would be great.
Please do.
tia.
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Esola
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Posted - 2009.11.23 19:08:00 -
[1860]
Any discussion of re-working capital ships, new tier 2 carriers, etc., has to start with the premise that CCP will not introduce new systems that threaten to obsolete battleships.
When CCP says they are protecting the future of the game, what they mean is they are protecting the viability of the ships that one-year old characters fly. New subscribers are the source of growth and future of the game, and CCP will not threaten their game experience. Dominion's most significant changes, such as providing space in null sec, DD removal, are designed to enhance the game play and extend the average subscription time of new players.
Retaining new subscribers is a laudable goal which IÆm sure every player supports. But CCP needs to find a way to provide progression for veterans as well.
But veteran progression presents CCP with a significant design problem. How can they introduce powerful new systems for veteran progression, while not obsoleting the ships of the one-year old and younger characters who represents the future of the game.
The outcry over dropping super carriers just demonstrates that CCP has allowed veteran game play to become stale, and veterans are very anxious for additional progression. But I donÆt believe CCP knows how to provide powerful new toys for veterans without threatening the game play of newer players. That why moms have languished in their current state for so long.
And that is why I'm rather pessimistic about seeing any new veteran progression content, such as super carriers. If you start with the assumption that battleships can't be threatened, I don't see how powerful new ships and weapons can be introduced.
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Dante Edmundo
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Posted - 2009.11.23 19:20:00 -
[1861]
Edited by: Dante Edmundo on 23/11/2009 19:25:29
Originally by: John Zorg
Checking pages and pages of comments here, only like 2 posts from the devs with comments. They are either very busy trying to make their deadline or they don't really care what their player base thinks or wants. I think most of us are so involved in this game and would like to see it become even better than it really is...
Maybe a discussion would be an idea? Maybe just post some ideas from your side regarding the changes?... I can understand new ideas and concepts being secret but this is changing what we already have... some comments please devs...
Based on Hammerhead's latest interview it appears they will keep going with planned changes including doing nothing with Mothership while changing specs on other cap ships. The reasoning I believe Hammerhead used was he was expecting strong opinions on the player feedback (and I suppose negative) anyway. So ...
So ... wonder where you draw the line - from expected negative criticism to valid negative criticism? It's easy to sweep it all under the rug by saying you were expecting it. But it also seems an easy-mode way of dismissing what seems to me pretty valid player criticisms. Which IMO has had little response from the devs.
So besides the "expected backlash" the handling of the backlash IMO has been done poorly, not to mention the odd statements made by Nozh about cap target painting and cap fleet engagements not being close quarters. Which did not exactly inspire confidence in the player base.
I'm going to continue to play Eve - I don't think even if they go ahead with current plans it's going to have such a significant impact on the game that it will become just unfun. But I do think rushing ahead on this Dec 1st release date in regards to the Sov/Nul-sec changes is foolhardy - that if they just gave themselves a little more time and did 1 or 2 more Scrum cycles - and released everything else in Dominion - which is considerable and have not received such negative player feedback - they would be doing themselves and many of the nul-sec players who have posted on these forums (with valid criticisms) a favor.
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Obsidian Hawk
Free Galactic Enterprises
FREGE
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Posted - 2009.11.23 19:48:00 -
[1862]
Originally by: Viggen
Motherships have gone back to there TQ state, but still have there HP buffs:-
BASE STATS:-
Aeon
TQ Hull - 287,500 ... SISI - 575,000
TQ Armour - 275,000 ... SISI - 1,100,000
TQ Shield - 212,500 ... SISI - 490,000
Nyx
TQ Hull - 300,000 ... SISI - 600,000
TQ Armour - 262,500 ... SISI - 1,050,000
TQ Shield - 225,000 ... SISI - 540,000
Wyvern
TQ Hull - 275,000 ... SISI - 550,000
TQ Armour - 237,500 ... SISI - 590,000
TQ Shield - 250,000 ... SISI - 1,000,000
Hel
TQ Hull - 262,500 ... SISI - 525,000
TQ Armour - 250,000 ... SISI - 600,000
TQ Shield - 237,500 ... SISI - 990,000
Confirmed.
Now with the HP buff in place this will be much more interesting to see motherships.
Would people please relay this to all yoru mothership pilots that they will be getting an hp buff?
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Dante Edmundo
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Posted - 2009.11.23 20:02:00 -
[1863]
Edited by: Dante Edmundo on 23/11/2009 20:03:33
Originally by: Viggen
Confirmed.
Now with the HP buff in place this will be much more interesting to see motherships.
Would people please relay this to all yoru mothership pilots that they will be getting an hp buff?
Hmm - now tweaking the HP buff. Well - at least this response although last hour - rather than being completely inflexible should help... better than massive censorship and doing nothing.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2009.11.23 20:36:00 -
[1864]
Edited by: Kerfira on 23/11/2009 20:36:59
Originally by: Esola
But veteran progression presents CCP with a significant design problem. How can they introduce powerful new systems for veteran progression, while not obsoleting the ships of the one-year old and younger characters who represents the future of the game.
The outcry over dropping super carriers just demonstrates that CCP has allowed veteran game play to become stale, and veterans are very anxious for additional progression. But I donÆt believe CCP knows how to provide powerful new toys for veterans without threatening the game play of newer players. That why moms have languished in their current state for so long.
If 'Veteran Progression' was natural, then the problem wouldn't be that large. Unfortunately it isn't, due to character trading!
Old (experienced) characters often does not disappear with their owners, but gets given/sold on to newer players. This keeps an increasing amount of veteran characters in the game, and thus makes it even more important to have one, ie. a new player who really want to compete will have to earn the money to buy an older character, or wait 1-2 years until he can get one trained himself.
Personally I think character trading should be removed totally! It would (eventually) remove quite a few capital characters from the game, thus in time make the capital part of the game less prominent.
Character trading on EBay could be a problem for this, but could be prevented by a simple rule: That the original owner of an account could always have the password reset at any time, no questions asked!
Character training would then be VERY high-risk (susceptible to lots of scams), making it essentially useless, and we'd be down to friends taking over accounts from friends which is far more manageable.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Esola
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Posted - 2009.11.23 21:50:00 -
[1865]
Originally by: Kerfira
Edited by: Kerfira on 23/11/2009 20:36:59
If 'Veteran Progression' was natural, then the problem wouldn't be that large. Unfortunately it isn't, due to character trading!
...
Adding a new round of powerful new end-game toys is much more problematic in EVE than other games.
In PVE-centric games, a new round of ôuberö armor and weapons doesnÆt really impact a new subscriber, since the new round of ôubernessö is only used against NPCÆs.
In a sharded environment, new servers can be added to give new characters a level playing field.
But in EVE a new round of powerful ships would make new players irrelevant by making their ships useless, as super carriers were about to do, even with the DPS nerfs.
I only see one way to provide vets with powerful new toys, while at the same time preserving the viability of ships flown by one-year old players. The ships must be very stratified. That is, the new round of ships canÆt track and hit the ships flown by new players. So super carriers canÆt be allowed to pawn battleships. But to make them usable super carriers shouldnÆt be very vulnerable to lower level ships.
This would lead to stratified combat, where new characters use their ships to fight other new characters, and older characters use their ships to fight older characters, because one groupÆs ships isnÆt particularly vulnerable to the other.
<new chars fight new chars>
<mid-level chars fight mid-level chars>
<high-level chars fight high-level chars>
With only some mixing between adjacent groups.
In this state, giving old characters uber new toys doesnÆt destroy the game play of younger characters.
Of course another alternative is to just give every player that passes the 6-month mark a 4-year old cap-skilled character, the equivalent of allowing a new subscriber to ômax levelö in 6-months. (ie, character trading)
But even with active character trading, CCP seems adament about retaining the viability of ships flown by younger characters. Which leads back to very stratified combat, or else no new powerful "end-game" ships.
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Ragel Tropxe
DEATHFUNK
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.23 22:02:00 -
[1866]
what about the Naglfar and Phoenix CCP??
any chance we can have an update on your plans for them?
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Zaiyo Modi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.23 22:03:00 -
[1867]
I once thought of coming up with an idea (for a new hack'n'slash game) where people in this world of adventure were a mix of men and demi-gods. That way, from a gods perspective, you would walk around like giants and fighting off smaller human figures. The ones playing the human figures would see things from their own perspective and fight a larger sized demi-god figure.
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Somealt Ofmine
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Posted - 2009.11.23 22:22:00 -
[1868]
Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 23/11/2009 22:25:27
You added the EHP boost to the current moms? Are you serious? M'kay, so, you seemed so concerned about these ships having a "role". Would you mind telling me what the role of a ship with the EHP of a large tower and weapons systems that are mostly effective against battleships and smaller is?
Ahhh, solo pwnmobile. Well, yes, I guess there's that. At least the whines will stop, and everyone can go back to merilly ganking haulers with them.
Stop doing damage control. Adding more bandaids isn't going to make it better. You have several major features being introduced in Dominion. Just scrap cap ship changes, period. Take them all out. For your convenience, this includes:
The change to the DD
The addition of Citadel Cruises
The changes to Citadel Torps
The changes to Moms.
The changes to XL tracking.
The changes to the Naggy bonus scheme.
The changes to Moros drones.
Yes, we will suffer along for a while longer with the 5 X DDD lameness that we have now, but it's a small price to pay.
Just can it all, as in, not part of Dominion. Make a future Dominion X.X release that deals specifically with capital changes, once you have thought them through. Don't release in reactionary mode. That is poor practice, and you know it. If you are truly interested in "excellence" you know better than this.
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Somealt Ofmine
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Posted - 2009.11.23 22:42:00 -
[1869]
Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 23/11/2009 22:45:07
While I'm at it, if you're going to listen to the whines about Motherships being one shotted by a Titan, how bout some lovin' for them Jump Freighter pilots? Because, Eve player mentality being what it is, you've got to know that ganking jump freighters at POSes for fun and (nearly zero risk) profit is going to become a favorite passtime of bored Titan pilots.
It's true that a JF doesn't cost what a mom does, but it could be close depending on what it's hauling, AND it probably represents a larger percentage of the pilot's net worth than the Mom does for the Mom pilot.
If a Titan being able to one shot a Mom isn't cool, I can't really see where them being able to one-shot a JF is either. JF with 2 X the EHP of a carrier, anyone?
Edit: If it's not really clear from the above, I'm being sarcastic. I'm not arguing for tanked-up jump freighters, I'm just pointing out how poorly thought through these changes are.
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Gober Pile
Minmatar
Invicta.
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Posted - 2009.11.23 23:30:00 -
[1870]
Edited by: Gober Pile on 23/11/2009 23:31:52
Constructive Comments Commence
YOU CANT TARGET PAINT SEIGED DREADS / TRIAGE CARRIERS / MOTHERSHIP / TITANS / PLAYER OWNED STRUCTUREs OR MODULES
Nozh, LTFP your a lightweight hatchet man brought in because you are a nobody who will be flipping burgers at macdona.... wait they closed down in Iceland never mind.
To Nozh boss, your a cynical bastard who deserves to be taken out back and shot, come on guys this is the sort of Customer Service you expect out of Sony Online not CCP, someone please get a grip of this pile of steaming whale **** and HARDEN THE **** UP as you put it
You mislead us at FanFest, you mislead us up until 2 weeks before the patch date, how many hours wasted by the community doing your ****ing job for you??? Do not expect any further community support for future patchs cause basically you just screwed the pooch
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Lolion Reglo
Demio's Corporation
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Posted - 2009.11.24 01:51:00 -
[1871]
Originally by: Gober Pile
Edited by: Gober Pile on 23/11/2009 23:37:43
Edited by: Gober Pile on 23/11/2009 23:31:52
YOU CANT TARGET PAINT SEIGED DREADS / TRIAGE CARRIERS / MOTHERSHIP / TITANS / PLAYER OWNED STRUCTUREs OR MODULES
(just to make sure that the idiot who lobotomized torps reads this every time a new post is made in this thread)
Hammerhead, come on this is the sort of Customer Service you expect out of Sony Online not CCP, please get a grip of this pile of steaming whale **** and HARDEN THE **** UP as you put it. Hiding behind "we might change this in 6 months blah blah", everything changes you cant wimp out of a decision because it might be changed in future patchs
You mislead us at FanFest, you mislead us up until 2 weeks before the patch date, how many hours wasted by the community doing your job for you??? Do not expect any further community support for future patchs cause basically you just screwed the pooch
Ranting removed. Zymurgist
Rofl... i seriously would like to see him get up at their job and run the show. things change and things get axed for various reasons. grow up let go of you nursing your ego cause the changes you wanted are gone and move on. seriously. yeah it sucks they can't fit it all in dominion for the sake of making sure the game stays somewhat balanced, and as for the customer services, i haven't seen any reason why them removing brainless, unproductive and useless comments from a forum intended to get constructive feed back is bad service. censorship yeah, but not bad service.
No they didn't mislead us at fan fest, or two weeks to launch. YOU had the assumption that what were working on wasn't subject to getting the axe because they reveled it. It was YOU who had unrealistic expectations of ccp and how the real world can operate sometimes. I know for a fact CCP isn't the only company that has had to scrap a release of a product right on the eve of release or scrap a feature because it didn't work or would have had a negative effect on the overall project than a benefit.
So yeah... if it means you no longer frequent Sisi because you can't handle a little setback or loss then by god hell ill pull double hours there to get them the info they need to make this game better. cry about something will you?
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Peryner
University of Caille
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Posted - 2009.11.24 02:20:00 -
[1872]
Edited by: Peryner on 24/11/2009 02:20:58
Originally by: Somealt Ofmine
Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 23/11/2009 22:25:27
You added the EHP boost to the current moms? Are you serious? M'kay, so, you seemed so concerned about these ships having a "role".
STOP POSTING
Players that were postign real feedback pointed out that with the current changes to titans, mom could be one shotted.
They are not throwing away the feedback on motehrships. In face they want more time to give them better roles.
that's it, end of story, they want to wait, it's not a bad thing, you can be ****ed about it, it's a temporary fix if they go through with it..
speaking of which, please don't take an hp buff on the test server as final fact, it could just be a bug!
wait for a real update
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Lev Aeris
b.b.k
Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2009.11.24 02:37:00 -
[1873]
Edited by: Lev Aeris on 24/11/2009 02:42:47
Edited by: Lev Aeris on 24/11/2009 02:39:05
Trolling aside, here is my two-cents.
Dominion Started out with so much promise, I remember me and my mates being giddy trying out the original stuff on SiSi.
The things that really got my attention(I liked):
*The Fixes on the Faction Ships (awesome Job Here)
*AF Tweaking (still needs balancing, understandable)
*Removing of Doomsday Spam from game (AWESOME!)
*The possibility of upgrading 0.0 Systems (this one looks pretty fail from the details atm)
*Breaking up AFK 0.0 empires (why should so much space go fallow)
*Moon Mineral Fix (getting t2 prices back to a pre QR/exploit level)
And the NEGATIVE that really got my attention:
Ruining the Naglfar.
There is alot of heated discussion on cap ship changes, but this one stands out the most. It's sad that a dread that requires more training time than any other could be so terrible.
The new sov mechanics are interesting. What I find really disappointing is the "upgrades" detailed in the Dev blogs. They really upgrade nothing and are tragically short of realizing the 50 to 100 pilots per system hinted at.
Relevant upgrades would be:
* Adding more belts and NPC spawns to a system (more rats = more income = more taxes)
* Add the ability to upgrade TrueSec.
* Add the ability to put NPC mission agents in Outposts.
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Prognosys
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.24 04:59:00 -
[1874]
Edited by: Prognosys on 24/11/2009 04:59:29
For real, CCP? Usually devs at least have some kind of sanity, but this latest change makes me wonder whether you know how this game works. Cancelling one of the few things about Dominion just makes me lose faith in the dev team. Knowing that apparently capital ship battles take place at long range with TARGET PAINTERS of all things makes me wonder: You think we've been doing it wrong all these years? Obviously we have. Unfortunate that it took us this long to realize it, but I'm sure you know best.
[1645] on 55.
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Dynaverse Corporation
Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.11.24 06:02:00 -
[1875]
Quote:
The new sov mechanics are interesting. What I find really disappointing is the "upgrades" detailed in the Dev blogs. They really upgrade nothing and are tragically short of realizing the 50 to 100 pilots per system hinted at.
While I agree with many parts of your post, your comments on how the upgrades work bears examination.
Assuming a max upgraded system, 20 anomalies alone can keep your lower mark of 50 characters busy per system with little problem. Remember, we are talking about 23 hour periods... and those anomalies re spawn instantly.
How many hours do you generally rat a day or do anomalies? Probably less than 8. That means if those 20 anomalies are in use you have 60 people with something to do if they are spread fairly evenly throughout various timezones. You and I both know most people don't grind rats for 8 hours after work, probably more like 4 hours max if they need to generate some isk. All factors taken into consideration, 50 people having a revenue stream is not unrealistic.
Then you have the 4 other flavors of upgrades to consider, not to mention the normal means of isk generation in that system that will still be intact (including moons, cap ship production, ratting, etc.).
Even if this were not the case, and it could only sustain 10 people, you would be doubling or trebling the isk making potential of a typical 0.0 system.
If there is a problem with the upgrade system, it is that it is not expensive enough to maintain through upkeep. If you have a 10% tax just one anomaly more than pays for the most expensive level of upkeep.
Play around with the numbers a bit, keep in mind in particular how many people the anomalies alone would keep busy in a 23hr. period, and perhaps you won't feel like the Sov/Upgrade parts of Dominion have fallen too far short of the mark.
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If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
fuze
Gallente
Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2009.11.24 06:50:00 -
[1876]
Another 2 accounts cancelled.
And to make sure I won't be back I've suicided the toons as well. (so you can't have my stuff) |
Pointfive
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Posted - 2009.11.24 08:19:00 -
[1877]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Quote:
The new sov mechanics are interesting. What I find really disappointing is the "upgrades" detailed in the Dev blogs. They really upgrade nothing and are tragically short of realizing the 50 to 100 pilots per system hinted at.
While I agree with many parts of your post, your comments on how the upgrades work bears examination.
Assuming a max upgraded system, 20 anomalies alone can keep your lower mark of 50 characters busy per system with little problem. Remember, we are talking about 23 hour periods... and those anomalies re spawn instantly.
How many hours do you generally rat a day or do anomalies? Probably less than 8. That means if those 20 anomalies are in use you have 60 people with something to do if they are spread fairly evenly throughout various timezones. You and I both know most people don't grind rats for 8 hours after work, probably more like 4 hours max if they need to generate some isk. All factors taken into consideration, 50 people having a revenue stream is not unrealistic.
Then you have the 4 other flavors of upgrades to consider, not to mention the normal means of isk generation in that system that will still be intact (including moons, cap ship production, ratting, etc.).
Even if this were not the case, and it could only sustain 10 people, you would be doubling or trebling the isk making potential of a typical 0.0 system.
If there is a problem with the upgrade system, it is that it is not expensive enough to maintain through upkeep. If you have a 10% tax just one anomaly more than pays for the most expensive level of upkeep.
Play around with the numbers a bit, keep in mind in particular how many people the anomalies alone would keep busy in a 23hr. period, and perhaps you won't feel like the Sov/Upgrade parts of Dominion have fallen too far short of the mark.
You are incorrect about the anomalies. They currently maybe support 2-3 people. Thats at best. The anomalies dont constantly respawn as another good anomaly, they re spawn as something random. Most of the time this is a terrible anomaly. You spend most of your time clearing crap anomalies that earn you 10m isk / hour at best. Currently its not really worth it over ratting. If you have an entire system to yourself if could be better income. But if you have that, your military will decay and you wont have them for very long. Most of the anomalies are trash, and the system is not going to bring in that much over what you already see from ratting.
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Teck7
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.24 08:26:00 -
[1878]
Originally by: Teck7
Edited by: Teck7 on 23/11/2009 03:31:49
Marketing department and executives already have it set in stone on the release date of dominion and doubtful at best there is any margin for deviation on the release date this late in the game. However, it is all a rather moot point as in the last 3 dev blog threads, CCP more or less stops replying all together after a certain point and indications in this thread are that we have passed that point.
There are many well articulated constructive comments and more importantly constructive questions in allot of the recent threads that were never addressed and CCP has made little to no effort to even bother tending to the community concerns at large. Dominion is coming one way or another and CCP is content on putting it out there the way they want it, not the way the community wants it.
I can not speak for other groups but I know one thing for sure, there is a large portion of very disappointed players within atlas, especially the veterans, who have all but given up on eve and are not even logging in anymore and/or are in the process of selling there accounts. Dominion is nothing but a string of broken promises, broken concepts and inadequate solutions (read: lazy programming) to some of the longest standing problems with eve. Allot of the older player base I think was holding out hope that dominion would revitalize the excitement in eve for them but it has become clear that is neither the case nor the ability of CCP any longer.
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Soleil Fournier
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2009.11.24 09:19:00 -
[1879]
There's only one logical way that they can take motherships from here:
Flagships. Make the ships capital command ships that revolve around bonuses. Give them some capital fleet command modules. Give them fighter bombers....but since the role of the ship is the bonuses, it's ok if their dps only equals a dreadnought.
The role fits them well. You could easily imagine Commanders choosing these ships to lead the fleet from, and fleet members would always be "inspired" by the admirals flagship ship leading them into the battle. This also finally gives them a role, where every fc and fleet member would want bonuses and thus want the ships to be in the fleet. They'd finally have a reason to put resources into protecting the ship for reasons other than 'Nyx pilot X' farming killmails.
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Zex Maxwell
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.24 09:24:00 -
[1880]
damn, And I was looking forward to this too.
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tx eight
Minmatar
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2009.11.24 11:10:00 -
[1881]
Originally by: Teck7
I can not speak for other groups but I know one thing for sure, there is a large portion of very disappointed players within atlas, especially the veterans, who have all but given up on eve and are not even logging in anymore and/or are in the process of selling there accounts.
Well, intended or not, this effect weakens established 0.0 entities which is a prerequisite for CCP's stated goal of repopulating the 0.0 space.
Add tinfoil according to taste
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Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.11.24 11:34:00 -
[1882]
The least CCP can do is give us a final word on the Mothership. Will it be getting any changes whatsoever? I must say that it seems we all agree that it at least needs the HP and jumprange changes. Between dev posts and what is on sisi we at least need some verification. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2009.11.24 11:49:00 -
[1883]
Originally by: tx eight
Originally by: Teck7
I can not speak for other groups but I know one thing for sure, there is a large portion of very disappointed players within atlas, especially the veterans, who have all but given up on eve and are not even logging in anymore and/or are in the process of selling there accounts.
Well, intended or not, this effect weakens established 0.0 entities which is a prerequisite for CCP's stated goal of repopulating the 0.0 space.
Add tinfoil according to taste
Weakening established entities is irrelevant for repopulating 0.0. The mechanics either create reasons for weaker and stronger entities to coexist or it isn't changing anything. There is a lot of unused space currently available, so you just have to make that space attractive and make it so, that the large entity controlling the area profits from allowing smaller operators to live there. If it doesn't, it is going to steamroll any small operators trying to make a home there. The goal is to bring in new people to 0.0, not just recycle the existing population.
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Arra Lith
HUSARIA
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.24 12:16:00 -
[1884]
Originally by: Pointfive
You are incorrect about the anomalies. They currently maybe support 2-3 people. Thats at best. The anomalies dont constantly respawn as another good anomaly, they re spawn as something random. Most of the time this is a terrible anomaly. You spend most of your time clearing crap anomalies that earn you 10m isk / hour at best. Currently its not really worth it over ratting. If you have an entire system to yourself if could be better income. But if you have that, your military will decay and you wont have them for very long. Most of the anomalies are trash, and the system is not going to bring in that much over what you already see from ratting.
Seems it will suck, Anomalies can be done only straight after DT. And after few hours all anomalies in system will be level 1 or 2 (as noone will be doing them) even with lev 5 upgrade...
Shoudnt they work like that - with level 4 upgrade active you have always:
* 4 lev 4 anomalies (when l4 is done new l4 is spawned)
* 4 lev 3-4 (random) anomalies (when its done new level 3 or lev 4 anomaly is spawned)
* 4 lev 2-4 (random) anomalies (when its done new level 2, level 3 or lev 4 anomaly is spawned)
* 4 lev 1-4 (random) anomalies (when its done new any upto lev 4 anomaly is spawned)
That would be logical. Or if that would be too god - then only add that lev 4 anomaly when done always spawn lev 4 anomaly / finished lev 3 spawns new lev 3 etc. But this way only 4 anomalies will be actively used, everyone else will stick to belt ratting.
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.24 13:29:00 -
[1885]
Originally by: Soleil Fournier
There's only one logical way that they can take motherships from here:
Flagships. Make the ships capital command ships that revolve around bonuses. Give them some capital fleet command modules. Give them fighter bombers....but since the role of the ship is the bonuses, it's ok if their dps only equals a dreadnought.
The role fits them well. You could easily imagine Commanders choosing these ships to lead the fleet from, and fleet members would always be "inspired" by the admirals flagship ship leading them into the battle. This also finally gives them a role, where every fc and fleet member would want bonuses and thus want the ships to be in the fleet. They'd finally have a reason to put resources into protecting the ship for reasons other than 'Nyx pilot X' farming killmails.
I think this is a good idea.
It would get like the Capital versions of the command ships where one has logistics (at least in pre-req on one of the command ships) role and the other a battle version.
I think the Flagship should get more DPS than a dreadnought though since it's such a massive ship and hasn't instadamage, but that balance is up to CCP to set.
A new version of capital fleet command modules sounds as an intresting idea - not really sure what bonuses that could come new there - but for instance one could get some extra bonus when placed as a wing commander and even more as a fleet commander.
_______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
casai
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
|
Posted - 2009.11.24 14:44:00 -
[1886]
Here is 1 little change i would like to see happen Give normal drones a greater control range 54km is not good enough
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Sith LordX
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Posted - 2009.11.24 16:09:00 -
[1887]
Edited by: Sith LordX on 24/11/2009 16:11:11
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Hi, everyone
We werenÆt entirely happy with the direction and balancing of MOMs before development of Dominion began. Even during the SISI tests they still werenÆt falling into place for us. They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0. So we tried to tune them again to a point we felt was balanced, but then the role of the ships wasnÆt clear once we started to lower the damage. Instead, they started to blur with dreads and carriers. .
Thanks for listening
CCP Hammerhead
Lead Game Designer
Too powerful? You must be joking, they couldn't even break the tank of a dread in siege. 10,000 DPS tank min, 20,000 DPS tank max. Fighter bombers need a big boost to be anti capital ships. Mother ships as they are only do about 3000 DPS with regular fighters and thats 25 fighters. 15 fighter bombers would only do around 9000 DPS.
Where do you get your numbers from a Maxed out Mom pilot vs noob pilot with a crappy dread tank and a lol fit? Any decently fit dread will tank 15,000 DPS in siege. Drones have been nerfed from the beginning of the game. They are lol in the dps they do vs a gun boat until fighter bombers came along. I think ccp underestimates their player bases capabilities in finding effective fittings for tank on carriers and dreads.
Drones as they are only tickle a dread, they are totally useless for carriers and moms with just fighters. Lets face it ccp hates drone boats thats all. So we can stick with our 7000 DPS moros and 20,000 something DPS titans as I hear but who knows what happens when you stick 3 magstabs on the titan. lol Prob do 25,000 DPS. Carriers also have insane tanks like over 20,000 with triage.
So I don't see how these dreads are insta poping to 9000 DPS drones when a decently fit dread will tank 15,000 DPS. I'm lost in where the line is drawn when something is labeled overpowered. Is it vs sub capital stuff or something? Because last time I was in a titan I could insta pop a nighthawk standing still from 60km away with blasters. So I don't see the issue here. It shouldn't have been standing still at 60km away.
So fighter bombers would do similar things to stuff standing still. Then don't stand still, they do crap damage to stuff moving. No smart pilot will stand still. You know whats funny. The tracking on capital turrets is so laughable now that blasters will miss another titan going 100m/s. And thats at about 10km away. Theres something wrong with that picture isn't it? How can a gun miss something thats 15km long. I think somebody is abit too nerf happy. This isn't balancing, its the devolution of technology in eve. Instead of advancing everything deadvances in eve.
And its getting to the point where no amount of skills can fix how rediculess the nerfs are getting. Atleast pirate ships are how they should be now. So why shouldn't super capital ships be the end all weapons in the game when they should be? They cost a fortian only alliances can afford.
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.24 16:36:00 -
[1888]
Originally by: Soleil Fournier
There's only one logical way that they can take motherships from here:
Flagships. Make the ships capital command ships that revolve around bonuses. Give them some capital fleet command modules.
What set of bonuses would you put in these "fleet command modules" that would be useful, balanced and (of course) aren't the same as regular command module bonuses? I say this not out of attack but genuine interest in the idea.
Quote:
They'd finally have a reason to put resources into protecting the ship for reasons other than 'Nyx pilot X' farming killmails.
SCs were never going to "farm" killmails, they did 2x dread dps, not 10x. And the reason you would have protected it was to help ensure your side wins the battle. If the only reason you'd help protect/keep alive a supercap is if it's giving you bonuses, that's enormously selfish. Plus, carriers have almost nothing to do in cap fights as is, so having supercaps on the field, period, would be a vast improvement in their usefulness.
Quote:
I think the Flagship should get more DPS than a dreadnought though since it's such a massive ship and hasn't instadamage, but that balance is up to CCP to set.
Agreed, if the DPS isn't very significant, it simply isn't worth risking ~400m in easily destroyable, delayed damage to even field them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Derkan
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.11.24 17:53:00 -
[1889]
Originally by: casai
Here is 1 little change i would like to see happen Give normal drones a greater control range 54km is not good enough
Best solution: remove drone bonus when not in siege, and make drone bonus in siege 50% damage AND 50% range per lvl in siege. Then the moros pilots can finally utalize the drone bonus properly. |
Random Womble
Minmatar
Emo Rangers
Electric Monkey Overlords
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Posted - 2009.11.24 19:40:00 -
[1890]
Originally by: Sith LordX
Edited by: Sith LordX on 24/11/2009 16:11:11
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Too powerful? You must be joking, they couldn't even break the tank of a dread in siege. 10,000 DPS tank min, 20,000 DPS tank max. Fighter bombers need a big boost to be anti capital ships. Mother ships as they are only do about 3000 DPS with regular fighters and thats 25 fighters. 15 fighter bombers would only do around 9000 DPS.
Where do you get your numbers from a Maxed out Mom pilot vs noob pilot with a crappy dread tank and a lol fit? Any decently fit dread will tank 15,000 DPS in siege. Drones have been nerfed from the beginning of the game. They are lol in the dps they do vs a gun boat until fighter bombers came along. I think ccp underestimates their player bases capabilities in finding effective fittings for tank on carriers and dreads.
Drones as they are only tickle a dread, they are totally useless for carriers and moms with just fighters. Lets face it ccp hates drone boats thats all. So we can stick with our 7000 DPS moros and 20,000 something DPS titans as I hear but who knows what happens when you stick 3 magstabs on the titan. lol Prob do 25,000 DPS. Carriers also have insane tanks like over 20,000 with triage.
So I don't see how these dreads are insta poping to 9000 DPS drones when a decently fit dread will tank 15,000 DPS. I'm lost in where the line is drawn when something is labeled overpowered. Is it vs sub capital stuff or something? Because last time I was in a titan I could insta pop a nighthawk standing still from 60km away with blasters. So I don't see the issue here. It shouldn't have been standing still at 60km away.
So fighter bombers would do similar things to stuff standing still. Then don't stand still, they do crap damage to stuff moving. No smart pilot will stand still. You know whats funny. The tracking on capital turrets is so laughable now that blasters will miss another titan going 100m/s. And thats at about 10km away. Theres something wrong with that picture isn't it? How can a gun miss something thats 15km long. I think somebody is abit too nerf happy. This isn't balancing, its the devolution of technology in eve. Instead of advancing everything deadvances in eve.
And its getting to the point where no amount of skills can fix how rediculess the nerfs are getting. Atleast pirate ships are how they should be now. So why shouldn't super capital ships be the end all weapons in the game when they should be? They cost a fortian only alliances can afford.
Most dreads will have a burst tank that might hit 10-15k and will last a few minutes max a perma tanking dread will tank around 10-12k if shield based 7-13k if armor based but will have no damage mods ect fitted so is generally an unrealistic setup.
Triage carrier will again tank around 10-13k perma tank with max skills (need carrier 5 and capital armor reps 5 + compensation skills Lv5 for 13.7k archon) yes overloading can get you more but that will only last you so long and drugs again can provide benefits but they also have downsides such as reduced cap if unlucky reducing the length the tank can be sustained.
TBH tho the figuresd are irrelavent since you are not supposed to have a solo pwn mobile with a mom and if you want to argue that dreads would be moms primary targets so they should be able to break them well currently dreads shoot dreads and if you use the above figures they cant get near breaking them solo but those figures are not realistic and dreads (like moms) are not used solo by experienced players anyway.
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John Zorg
Caldari
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.24 19:47:00 -
[1891]
Edited by: John Zorg on 24/11/2009 19:49:08
Originally by: Sith LordX
Edited by: Sith LordX on 24/11/2009 16:11:11
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Hi, everyone
We werenÆt entirely happy with the direction and balancing of MOMs before development of Dominion began. Even during the SISI tests they still werenÆt falling into place for us. They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0. So we tried to tune them again to a point we felt was balanced, but then the role of the ships wasnÆt clear once we started to lower the damage. Instead, they started to blur with dreads and carriers. .
Thanks for listening
CCP Hammerhead
Lead Game Designer
Too powerful? You must be joking, they couldn't even break the tank of a dread in siege. 10,000 DPS tank min, 20,000 DPS tank max. Fighter bombers need a big boost to be anti capital ships. Mother ships as they are only do about 3000 DPS with regular fighters and thats 25 fighters. 15 fighter bombers would only do around 9000 DPS.
Where do you get your numbers from a Maxed out Mom pilot vs noob pilot with a crappy dread tank and a lol fit? Any decently fit dread will tank 15,000 DPS in siege. Drones have been nerfed from the beginning of the game. They are lol in the dps they do vs a gun boat until fighter bombers came along. I think ccp underestimates their player bases capabilities in finding effective fittings for tank on carriers and dreads.
Drones as they are only tickle a dread, they are totally useless for carriers and moms with just fighters. Lets face it ccp hates drone boats thats all. So we can stick with our 7000 DPS moros and 20,000 something DPS titans as I hear but who knows what happens when you stick 3 magstabs on the titan. lol Prob do 25,000 DPS. Carriers also have insane tanks like over 20,000 with triage.
So I don't see how these dreads are insta poping to 9000 DPS drones when a decently fit dread will tank 15,000 DPS. I'm lost in where the line is drawn when something is labeled overpowered. Is it vs sub capital stuff or something? Because last time I was in a titan I could insta pop a nighthawk standing still from 60km away with blasters. So I don't see the issue here. It shouldn't have been standing still at 60km away.
So fighter bombers would do similar things to stuff standing still. Then don't stand still, they do crap damage to stuff moving. No smart pilot will stand still. You know whats funny. The tracking on capital turrets is so laughable now that blasters will miss another titan going 100m/s. And thats at about 10km away. Theres something wrong with that picture isn't it? How can a gun miss something thats 15km long. I think somebody is abit too nerf happy. This isn't balancing, its the devolution of technology in eve. Instead of advancing everything deadvances in eve.
And its getting to the point where no amount of skills can fix how rediculess the nerfs are getting. Atleast pirate ships are how they should be now. So why shouldn't super capital ships be the end all weapons in the game when they should be? They cost a fortian only alliances can afford.
Also remember, that you are discussing this on a 1 vs 1 fight here. if it can do 80% damage of a Seiged Dreads tank then that is good. Remember there will also be other caps and ships on the field to do damage. I don't think it would be balanced to have a Mothership own any capital ship in a matter of seconds. This is supposed to be a team game and most discussions here are 1 vs 1.
I would still like to see some form of bonuses for Motherships, the same as what the titans have. Possibly even a lesser bonus, but atleast still a bonus.
Again I say, there needs to be a graph drawn to show cost vs. DPS and that should determine where the DPS should be for this vessel.
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Bodega Cat
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Posted - 2009.11.24 20:39:00 -
[1892]
All I know for sure is, the longer this thread goes on, the more apparent the challenge of balancing these ships is being realized to me.
CCP has their work cut out for them with this one.
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JonnY JohnStone
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Posted - 2009.11.24 22:35:00 -
[1893]
Thank goodness these are expansions are free..
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Preston FateForger
Caldari
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.24 22:54:00 -
[1894]
CCP is making another grand mistake by taking steps backwards. Balancing is never ever perfect. The right way to balance an MMO is by adding content that counters overpowerful ships/items/etc... Nerfing stuff should never be done.
And why is it that when I read these dev blogs it seems like it is written by someone who doesn't play the game (or if they do - they don't know what they're doing) but instead relies on their statistics and charts for game analysis?
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Soleil Fournier
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.11.24 23:31:00 -
[1895]
Edited by: Soleil Fournier on 24/11/2009 23:32:10
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Soleil Fournier
There's only one logical way that they can take motherships from here:
Flagships. Make the ships capital command ships that revolve around bonuses. Give them some capital fleet command modules.
What set of bonuses would you put in these "fleet command modules" that would be useful, balanced and (of course) aren't the same as regular command module bonuses? I say this not out of attack but genuine interest in the idea.
Well I see two different ways to introduce them while still maintaining balance:
The first would be to simply combine the command modules for each category we have now into fewer modules. So, instead of 3 'armored' command modules, there would be 1 capital 'armored' mod with the 3 bonuses, and so forth for each type. So the fleet could get all the available command combat bonuses from 1 ship with 4 mods running. I don't view that as too powerful since the effect of the bonuses aren't changed, you just get more bonuses from one ship.
The other option would be to add modules that affect the one area current fleet bonuses don't address: damage, rates of fire,and optimal ranges for each of the weapon types, so the flagship would be an offensive bonus ship whereas titans/command ships would focus on defense.
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Grim Savage
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.11.24 23:51:00 -
[1896]
Edited by: Grim Savage on 24/11/2009 23:52:24
How to balance:
Close down the main server for 24 hours...
Make a capital alliance turnament with nice prices...
Let all the big alliances in, give them 5 titans, 5 motherships 100 dreads and 100 carriers and let them pick what ships they want to field. 150 man on each team. When the isk start to run out.. the rest jump into BS / dictors / logistics / covert ops / bombers and so on..
Let each team outfit ships for 150 billion isk in pure standard rate minerals. (1,4,16,64,256,1024,4096 isk)
see how the battle pans out.. move goalposts, make new rounds..
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stoli'Tulkas
|
Posted - 2009.11.25 03:11:00 -
[1897]
Edited by: stoli''Tulkas on 25/11/2009 03:12:56
Here is the main problem with the direction MOMs have taken. CCP has told everyone that there will be a 40% material reduction in the new SuperCarrier.. and now.. oh, well that won't happen.. we aren't going to do anything at this time, just stay tuned (1 month , 2 months, 6 months , 2 years??? anyone else remember the idea that we would be walking in stations. this the same thing?).
So who in their right mind is going to purchase a MOM for 15 bill when CCP is hinting that a price reduction is right around the corner. and not just a price reduction a MASSIVE price reduction.
You not only kept a certain ship class useless... you made it especially ridiculous to even consider building one.
Basically the tease of the new SuperCarriers has put all MOM production on standstill and anyone who was stupid enough to build a MOM is just stuck holding their ship .. and has no cash flow until CCP makes up their mind. This is super.. thanks. In other words.. so.. shall i just put all my 6 accounts on hold until you make up your mind.. cause all my money and time is tied up in MotherShip production. Stuck holding 4 MOMS.
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Teck7
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.25 06:00:00 -
[1898]
CCP has not made a reply to this thread in nearly 5 days or since page 43.
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Digital Gaidin
|
Posted - 2009.11.25 06:28:00 -
[1899]
Edited by: Digital Gaidin on 25/11/2009 06:30:10
Originally by: Teck7
CCP has not made a reply to this thread in nearly 5 days or since page 43.
I imagine many Naglfar pilots, many Phoenix pilots, and many who have or dream of having a Mothership one day are doing exactly the same thing I do... which is check back every few hours over the course of the last few days waiting for (1) an announcement of a Dominion delay, (2) an updated dev blog outlining fixes to many blunders in the existing proposal, and/or (3) any word that this is still going ahead as planned.
iGoogle has been great with the add-on that allows you to monitor dev blogs... and just from discussions with alliance mates, these changes are really going to hurt. I'm already cringing about bringing my Phoenix out to play with the new explosion radius post dominion if these changes go live
6 Days and 156,359 Reads... This thread is being watched
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BanMeAgainPlz
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Posted - 2009.11.25 07:29:00 -
[1900]
Anyone still hoping for anything else from CCP at this point is going to be disappointed. They're in a feature freeze by now on the release and instead of pushing it back to clean up this mess of crap with capitals they're just going to release it anyway. Screw anyone who has a ship affected by these pointlessly overboard nerfs or whose 14-16B ship becomes a POS anchor.
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Ess Erbe
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.25 08:22:00 -
[1901]
Where is Seleene goddamnit
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Cassidy Usaro
|
Posted - 2009.11.25 09:34:00 -
[1902]
Edited by: Cassidy Usaro on 25/11/2009 09:38:15
so we are left with
* dread nerfs and pointless short range boosts (who on earth is going to fit short range for anything, with modules that are 4000m3 in volume, which make you vulnerable to anything that operates long range .... LOL)
* no changes for MOMs
* Titan nerf
* a gimped kindergarden SOV mechanic
* and hey ... Yeah ! we will get new Factionships and Storyline Missions. Dooh
Gamemechanic-wise Dominion is an absolute disaster. Sorry folks, complete failure for game design team. You guys should stop doing game design and come back and actually PLAY the game for a year or so. Then you would understand what you are doing and these horrible mistakes would not happen
On the other side, thumbs up for the UI Team. Their gimicks seem to be a blast.
Browser is really pro
mail system seems fancy
fleet tool is killer
join corp button was needed
keep up the good work
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cpu939
Gallente
Volatile Nature
Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.11.25 11:32:00 -
[1903]
well just log on to sisi with the latest update patch and ms are back to tq standards no hp buff no jump range buff becarefull when dominion hits tq with your ms on the battlefield or a titan might just pop it.
0101011 001101111 011011000 110000101110100 01101001011011000 1100101001000000 1001110011000010 11101000111010101 11001001100101
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Arramis
Minmatar
ROMANIA Renegades
Primary.
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Posted - 2009.11.25 11:38:00 -
[1904]
And sell your Naglfars, are just useless piece of ****.
------------------------------------------
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Iloni Atoriandra
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.11.25 12:52:00 -
[1905]
At least let them keep the HP and jump range boost so there arent completely useless still.
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Misaki Yuuko
|
Posted - 2009.11.25 13:31:00 -
[1906]
Originally by: Cassidy Usaro
so we are left with
* dread nerfs and pointless short range boosts (who on earth is going to fit short range for anything, with modules that are 4000m3 in volume, which make you vulnerable to anything that operates long range .... LOL)
* no changes for MOMs
* Titan nerf
* a gimped kindergarden SOV mechanic
* and hey ... Yeah ! we will get new Factionships and Storyline Missions. Dooh
Gamemechanic-wise Dominion is an absolute disaster. Sorry folks, complete failure for game design team. You guys should stop doing game design and come back and actually PLAY the game for a year or so. Then you would understand what you are doing and these horrible mistakes would not happen
On the other side, thumbs up for the UI Team. Their gimicks seem to be a blast.
Browser is really pro
mail system seems fancy
fleet tool is killer
join corp button was needed
keep up the good work
/signed
Gameplay/balance team worst department, :nonshocker:
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Lizzy Delmordaine
|
Posted - 2009.11.25 15:48:00 -
[1907]
I bet if everyone cancelled there subscriptions for a month... CCP would be like O-S*** we did screw up and need to fix this or that blackness in the sky they talked about in 1 of there EVE magazines will happen. Come on CCP listen to the player base... the players that actually play this game for countless hours a week. FIX IT... or besides my 7 accounts you might lose alot more than $105 dollars a month.
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New ones
Caldari
Koln united
|
Posted - 2009.11.25 15:56:00 -
[1908]
Originally by: Cassidy Usaro
Edited by: Cassidy Usaro on 25/11/2009 09:38:15
so we are left with
* dread nerfs and pointless short range boosts (who on earth is going to fit short range for anything, with modules that are 4000m3 in volume, which make you vulnerable to anything that operates long range .... LOL)
* no changes for MOMs
* Titan nerf
* a gimped kindergarden SOV mechanic
* and hey ... Yeah ! we will get new Factionships and Storyline Missions. Dooh
Gamemechanic-wise Dominion is an absolute disaster. Sorry folks, complete failure for game design team. You guys should stop doing game design and come back and actually PLAY the game for a year or so. Then you would understand what you are doing and these horrible mistakes would not happen
On the other side, thumbs up for the UI Team. Their gimicks seem to be a blast.
Browser is really pro
mail system seems fancy
fleet tool is killer
join corp button was needed
keep up the good work
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paik
Minmatar
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.11.25 16:02:00 -
[1909]
CCP
Are you really going to release Dominion with the current incarnation of capital and sov stuff? I really hope you understand that we threadnaughted here not to be emorage but because the status quo of dominion is terrible.
Sov RF timer = 2 hour variance ..... You said you wanted to end timezone warfare. How exactly does this mechanic do anything but enforce timezone warfare. IMO the variance needs to be set @ 5 hours or more to make any real impact.
Sov Cost - You stated you wanted to end AFK alliances and make alliances shrink the amount of space that they claim due to needs. With the current incarnation this goal has not been reached. Sov needs to be much more exspensive but to balance this rewards of 0.0 needs to be boosted greatly. Basically if effort has been applied and risk has been taken 0.0 should yield much more then empire income generation.
Titan - 5 minute timer and 200-300 % dmg bonus on turrets would have been acceptable. With the incarnation you suggest I guarentee you they will see very limited fielding. Nobody wants to put a 60 bil isk ship on the field to frag a 1bil dread every 10 mins.
Motherships - the EHP boost and jumprange changes are nice. The removal of fighter bombers was a bad decision. The capital killer role was a good idea. It seems you got scared of Mothership wolfpax. Space is a evil cold lonely place and its dangerous. The Eve player is a hardcore MMO'r if we wanted no consequence watered down MMO's we would all play WOW. 16bil isk and 8-10k dps with fighter bombers.
Nag/Phoenix - Why? Do I even have to illustrate how dumb this change is. Look in the mirror and try to say this is a good change..... you cant right..... so yeah bad bad change.
Short range Capital Weapons. Nice Idea but they wont be applied unless a group can metagame on there enemy and know for certain that fitting said weapons will work. Imagine a short range fitted dread fleet getting dropped on by a long range dread fleet. You just lost your dread fleet. So in reality you wont see these being used most of the time other than the Squeaky 3rd Wheel that has entirely too much isk.
I really feel like as a designer you should have to play the game 10-20 hours a week and actually be involved in the game. That way your perspective on whats needed is based on knowledge instead of perception.
Please unfack dominion!
Abathur has alot of knowledge when it comes to 0.0 play and imo you are fools for not drawing on that rescource more.
________________________________________
LOLNOZHLOL |
Cause nEffect
|
Posted - 2009.11.25 16:14:00 -
[1910]
Wow, 56 pages of EMOrage.
All I have to say is that CCP NEVER promised that anything seen on sisi would make it into a release. They have always said "nothing is final until it is in the patch on patch day".
Which means that everyone who is going around planning ahead and stocking up to buy whatever, or not buying whatever is just plain being stupid.
Frankly, if I were CCP, I'd hire at least 1 person whose sole job it is to put mostly realistic nonsense onto the test server that will not even be considered for the final patch just to watch the tears of all the people who took something that showed up on sisi as gospel despite all the warnings to the contrary. Or if we had decided that shipclass x needs a slight buff, say an extra 5% resist across the board, I'd put it in sisi as a 5% reduction in resist across the board just for the fun of it. Just to reinforce the fact that it is the test server, and not everything seen there is real.
|
|
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sakurako
Caldari
Volatile Nature
Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.11.25 16:21:00 -
[1911]
Originally by: Cause nEffect
Wow, 56 pages of EMOrage.
All I have to say is that CCP NEVER promised that anything seen on sisi would make it into a release. They have always said "nothing is final until it is in the patch on patch day".
Which means that everyone who is going around planning ahead and stocking up to buy whatever, or not buying whatever is just plain being stupid.
Frankly, if I were CCP, I'd hire at least 1 person whose sole job it is to put mostly realistic nonsense onto the test server that will not even be considered for the final patch just to watch the tears of all the people who took something that showed up on sisi as gospel despite all the warnings to the contrary. Or if we had decided that shipclass x needs a slight buff, say an extra 5% resist across the board, I'd put it in sisi as a 5% reduction in resist across the board just for the fun of it. Just to reinforce the fact that it is the test server, and not everything seen there is real.
i think someone at ccp might have read this as the wyvern now has a shield hp of 25k not the 250k it has on tq
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Van Doren
|
Posted - 2009.11.25 16:26:00 -
[1912]
http://www.eveonline.com/dominion/index.html
Nice final in that video where 2 titans instapop a mom.
(Nice vid otherwise).
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Valator Uel
Caldari
X-pell
vae Victis .
|
Posted - 2009.11.25 16:28:00 -
[1913]
Edited by: Valator Uel on 25/11/2009 16:32:21
Originally by: sakurako
i think someone at ccp might have read this as the wyvern now has a shield hp of 25k not the 250k it has on tq
Just use a targetpainter on it and it'll be back at 250k.
Quote:
Aya > Hostile tcf gang coming to h-pa
Deva Blackfire > ships?
Ralarina > Yes, in ships
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Kersh Marelor
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.11.25 16:54:00 -
[1914]
Edited by: Kersh Marelor on 25/11/2009 17:01:24
Originally by: Van Doren
Nice vid otherwise.
Really funny that Aeon is reffered to as Super Carrier and one can see Amarr Fighter Bombers (Maullus wasn't it?) on the field. Good eye-candy to get people all excited about the game, maybe will draw more ppl to try Eve out without them noticing that CCP does not give a damn about players.
Also tells you a lot about how they prepared the capital ship changes as the vid must have been ready before Nozh and his team went on the capital improvemant rampage. Pathetic CCP, just pathetic.
EDIT:
This is hillarious - the dev-blog link under New Doomsday Devices and Capital Ship Changes on the Dominion Features website links here. CCP itself doesn't what's coming up to TQ in a weeks time it seems. Epic.
Oh, Free Abathur btw.
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CerealKillerSD
|
Posted - 2009.11.25 17:52:00 -
[1915]
With all this gripping from the player base and no further communication from CCP on the matter, I think the next course of action would be to grab your torches and pitchforks, and go storm the castle....
Seriously tho, this is getting ridiculous. I'm not a capital pilot by any means, so I try to stay away from the details of what gets nerfed and damage types or DPS and all that wonderful stuff; however, as a player of the game and a loyal customer to the CCP corporation ... can we not have some answers to these questions? I know Dec 1. is right around the corner and all, but still ... is it to difficult to continue a discussion on a topic that is obvious, a lot of people are still sketchy on?
A little word from on high goes a long way.
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Aprudena Gist
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.25 17:58:00 -
[1916]
Originally by: Draco Argen
Thank you hammer.
This whole beat Nozh thing was getting pretty harsh.
I get people are angry. Mom's are a big investment. Persecution of one person is really unproductive.
Can I ask CCP: When would a change such as was planned to Moms next be likely? Will it be left until the next major release (6 months) or is it possible it comes in an intermediary patch?
Not when will it be, just when could it be :)
Thanks
Do you seriously think you will ever get a real answer to this? You are talking to CCP here they can't even finish a ****ing expansion before their deadline let alone set a ****ing schedule or do things right your lucky to get an end result at all.
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Sarah Sarai
|
Posted - 2009.11.25 19:33:00 -
[1917]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
First, IÆd like to say that a single developer cannot come in and unilaterally change everything with no oversight. People are spewing a lot of hate at CCP Nozh but instead itÆs a case of shooting the messenger. He is just doing his job trying to improve the game and explain the reasoning for why changes were made. We work as a team and agree on the direction things are taking. We want the game to be balanced and fun for everyone to play. We also think about the future of the game and how it will be in years to come after our changes weighing the medium- and long-term repercussions.
While this might be true, Nozh doesn't help his case. The target painting comment is a perfect example of what really ****es off 0.0 players. You should probably use a different messenger and have someone else edit/proofread their devblogs to prevent player eruptions like that. All players see is a developer they already don't like saying "hey we're removing all those nice ms changes, also here's some new capital weapons balanced around target painters working on targets they don't *actually* work on, have fun!" In case you've forgotten, most of the players I'm referring to don't like this particular dev because the last time a controversial change was made (speed/nano), he came up with some pretty outlandish examples to support his claims. Players aren't going to react favorably to such things. So while your statement about how changes are made/not made by single developers is probably true, perhaps you should evaluate it from the point of view of a player that doesn't understand how your internal controls and flows work. All we see is this guy we already don't like from a prior bad run-in feeding us some more garbage changes. Not flaming, just trying to give you some constructive feedback on how you might better handle something like this in the future.
Quote:
We werenÆt entirely happy with the direction and balancing of MOMs before development of Dominion began. Even during the SISI tests they still werenÆt falling into place for us. They were potentially too powerful and that would have resulted in a small minority having a lot of fun at the cost of thousands who would be instapopped in 0.0. So we tried to tune them again to a point we felt was balanced, but then the role of the ships wasnÆt clear once we started to lower the damage. Instead, they started to blur with dreads and carriers.
How would thousands be insta-popped by the supercarrier changes? I'm confused as to how fighterbombers were some unstoppable weapon no one could deal with compared to current fighters. If you increase the signature radius on their torps/weapons/whatever high enough so they only affect capitals, I really do not see how they were all that overpowered. Having said that I understand if you didn't like the role. Seeing as this is mostly a 0.0 issue and you aren't sure what to do with it, perhaps you should ask the 0.0 players in the CSM to gather information for you. I bet if you talked to the various mothership pilots in the 0.0 alliances you could cobble together a rather good idea of what works/does not work with motherships as-is and help form an idea of what you want them to be. Hell you have a good case subject working for you now (Seleene) to jumpstart that. Currently I would say they're just fleet support, they can carry a pile of extra dictors/tacklers/cynoships to fights and hand out fighters. In the devblogs, it's made clear titans should be the main logistics vehicle in the fleet, so that doesn't leave you many roles for the mothership to fill. If you don't like them as anti-capital combat ships, consider making them anti-support combat ships instead to make up for the void left by the Doomsday removal. A decent example of this would be increasing the regular drone damage, range, and speed on motherships, or making fighters much more effective against battleships.
Leaving them as-is really leaves some of your more advanced players in a bind, because if you completely revert the changes they are really ineffective (especially the HP changes, since Titans will really rip them apart). These ships are not easy to use, they're not easy to move, and they don't really justify the price. You don't have to do MASSIVE changes to make them all that useful. A "yea we screwed up here's some freebie changes" example would be increasing the jumprange to match dreadnaughts. That won't be massively gamebreaking, but it will really help out because currently that is a major hurdle in using them. I don't think that's going to get ANY complaints from anyone, and it'll show people you're not the heartless bastards people think you are currently.
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River Reynolds
Minmatar
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2009.11.25 20:14:00 -
[1918]
Glad I dodged that bullet by my cap ship class choice, for my cap ship alt!
Phew!
CEO of Corpse Creation Crew, our home is Molden Heath, we are Pirates...
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Lolion Reglo
Demio's Corporation
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Posted - 2009.11.25 21:31:00 -
[1919]
Originally by: Aprudena Gist
Originally by: Draco Argen
Thank you hammer.
This whole beat Nozh thing was getting pretty harsh.
I get people are angry. Mom's are a big investment. Persecution of one person is really unproductive.
Can I ask CCP: When would a change such as was planned to Moms next be likely? Will it be left until the next major release (6 months) or is it possible it comes in an intermediary patch?
Not when will it be, just when could it be :)
Thanks
Do you seriously think you will ever get a real answer to this? You are talking to CCP here they can't even finish a ****ing expansion before their deadline let alone set a ****ing schedule or do things right your lucky to get an end result at all.
Did you even stop to look at what they did accomplish instead of what they had to drop because they once again bit off more than they could chew? Typically that is a bad thing but at least they're putting out an expansion and for going a few things they still want to tweak. In terms of expansion changes that are being made this is a healthy expansion. Grow up, quit *****ing about how they didnt get all they wanted too into this expansion and wait for the friggin mini expansions they did like with the rigs a few months back. Its not the end of the ****ing world people, you just wont get all they thought they could pull off. God damn im sick and tired of hearing people whine about how CCP lied to them. ****ING GROW UP YA BIG BABIES!
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Aprudena Gist
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.25 22:13:00 -
[1920]
Originally by: Lolion Reglo
Originally by: Aprudena Gist
Originally by: Draco Argen
Thank you hammer.
This whole beat Nozh thing was getting pretty harsh.
I get people are angry. Mom's are a big investment. Persecution of one person is really unproductive.
Can I ask CCP: When would a change such as was planned to Moms next be likely? Will it be left until the next major release (6 months) or is it possible it comes in an intermediary patch?
Not when will it be, just when could it be :)
Thanks
Do you seriously think you will ever get a real answer to this? You are talking to CCP here they can't even finish a ****ing expansion before their deadline let alone set a ****ing schedule or do things right your lucky to get an end result at all.
Did you even stop to look at what they did accomplish instead of what they had to drop because they once again bit off more than they could chew? Typically that is a bad thing but at least they're putting out an expansion and for going a few things they still want to tweak. In terms of expansion changes that are being made this is a healthy expansion. Grow up, quit *****ing about how they didnt get all they wanted too into this expansion and wait for the friggin mini expansions they did like with the rigs a few months back. Its not the end of the ****ing world people, you just wont get all they thought they could pull off. God damn im sick and tired of hearing people whine about how CCP lied to them. ****ING GROW UP YA BIG BABIES!
Do you have any idea how many times CCP has cut over 50% of the "Proposed Game Changing Features" to their expansions last minute and never bothered to follow though with them after words? ( it happens a lot )
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|
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Hack Harrison
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.11.25 22:50:00 -
[1921]
Originally by: Cause nEffect
Wow, 56 pages of EMOrage.
All I have to say is that CCP NEVER promised that anything seen on sisi would make it into a release. They have always said "nothing is final until it is in the patch on patch day".
Which means that everyone who is going around planning ahead and stocking up to buy whatever, or not buying whatever is just plain being stupid.
Frankly, if I were CCP, I'd hire at least 1 person whose sole job it is to put mostly realistic nonsense onto the test server that will not even be considered for the final patch just to watch the tears of all the people who took something that showed up on sisi as gospel despite all the warnings to the contrary. Or if we had decided that shipclass x needs a slight buff, say an extra 5% resist across the board, I'd put it in sisi as a 5% reduction in resist across the board just for the fun of it. Just to reinforce the fact that it is the test server, and not everything seen there is real.
Perhaps CCP needs to be a little more specific about the role of this server then. If they invite people to come and test stuff (like the original MoM cap changes), that would suggest it is more of a UAT server then a "test" server - they would have already tested stuff prior surely??? FYI, their are 4 stages of development - Dev, Test, User Acceptence Testing, Production. So which is Sisi?
One other point - you would NEVER release something into a test environment just to screw people around as that is bad business - it ****es your income stream off...
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Elder Man
Gallente
ATRISC
|
Posted - 2009.11.25 23:42:00 -
[1922]
Originally by: Preston FateForger
CCP is making another grand mistake by taking steps backwards. Balancing is never ever perfect. The right way to balance an MMO is by adding content that counters overpowerful ships/items/etc... Nerfing stuff should never be done.
And why is it that when I read these dev blogs it seems like it is written by someone who doesn't play the game (or if they do - they don't know what they're doing) but instead relies on their statistics and charts for game analysis?
/signed
I've been saying same thing for years.
Elder Man |
Lolion Reglo
Demio's Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.11.26 00:03:00 -
[1923]
Originally by: Aprudena Gist
Originally by: Lolion Reglo
Originally by: Aprudena Gist
Originally by: Draco Argen
Thank you hammer.
This whole beat Nozh thing was getting pretty harsh.
I get people are angry. Mom's are a big investment. Persecution of one person is really unproductive.
Can I ask CCP: When would a change such as was planned to Moms next be likely? Will it be left until the next major release (6 months) or is it possible it comes in an intermediary patch?
Not when will it be, just when could it be :)
Thanks
Do you seriously think you will ever get a real answer to this? You are talking to CCP here they can't even finish a ****ing expansion before their deadline let alone set a ****ing schedule or do things right your lucky to get an end result at all.
Did you even stop to look at what they did accomplish instead of what they had to drop because they once again bit off more than they could chew? Typically that is a bad thing but at least they're putting out an expansion and for going a few things they still want to tweak. In terms of expansion changes that are being made this is a healthy expansion. Grow up, quit *****ing about how they didnt get all they wanted too into this expansion and wait for the friggin mini expansions they did like with the rigs a few months back. Its not the end of the ****ing world people, you just wont get all they thought they could pull off. God damn im sick and tired of hearing people whine about how CCP lied to them. ****ING GROW UP YA BIG BABIES!
Do you have any idea how many times CCP has cut over 50% of the "Proposed Game Changing Features" to their expansions last minute and never bothered to follow though with them after words? ( it happens a lot )
and of course your backing this statement with evidence that over the past few expansions you can show what they considered, what they had on sisi and then what the ended up implemented?... Link it or your argument is ranting based upon numbers you created. Im not going to say they haven't cut material from expansions but i wouldn't go near as much as the half you have said. So i will say again... back up your claim or go back under the bridge from whence you came.
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Severion Atarkos
|
Posted - 2009.11.26 00:50:00 -
[1924]
Thanks Hammer, I think most of us can accept that there will be no changes except for one part of it.
Moms will need an HP buff in order to not be instapopped by a couple titans.
Can we get a comment if the buff on SISI is on purpose and will likely roll through on TQ?
I REALLY don't want to sit inside a pos for another 6 months kicking rocks
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Teck7
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.26 01:17:00 -
[1925]
Edited by: Teck7 on 26/11/2009 01:17:39
CCP has not made a reply to this thread in nearly 6 days or since page 43.
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Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.26 02:36:00 -
[1926]
The Decisions for this will now have been made, its past the point of being able to do anything about it in terms of implimentation in this patch. Might as well just wait and see if they get HP and jump range buff or if there really are no changes dispite titans being changed.
Maybe its a suprise is why they wont tell us- like suprise sex. |
Fogy
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.26 04:11:00 -
[1927]
Originally by: Kraken Kill
The Decisions for this will now have been made, its past the point of being able to do anything about it in terms of implimentation in this patch. Might as well just wait and see if they get HP and jump range buff or if there really are no changes dispite titans being changed.
Maybe its a suprise is why they wont tell us- like suprise sex.
Hope it's not suprise but sex then..
If they actually end up doing no change to the shipptype at all, it's a huge smack in the face for every mothership owner in the game. Not only are they useless now, they will be even worse in dominion.. :3
At a minimum they should give us a new ETA, and some framework for what they are thinking about doing with the class.
Wonder how many new motherships are in game now, after the original planed changes were anounced..?
Gues it's pos hugging in a cynojammed system, or beeing logged out. Heh! Might just aswell unsubscribe the mom account if there are no changes.. not like I got much to train on it any more anyways.. so whats the point...
Cheers!
Fogy
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"EVE Online: Shenanigans"
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Sith LordX
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Posted - 2009.11.26 04:54:00 -
[1928]
Originally by: Random Womble
Originally by: Sith LordX
Edited by: Sith LordX on 24/11/2009 16:11:11
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Too powerful? You must be joking, they couldn't even break the tank of a dread in siege. 10,000 DPS tank min, 20,000 DPS tank max. Fighter bombers need a big boost to be anti capital ships. Mother ships as they are only do about 3000 DPS with regular fighters and thats 25 fighters. 15 fighter bombers would only do around 9000 DPS.
Where do you get your numbers from a Maxed out Mom pilot vs noob pilot with a crappy dread tank and a lol fit? Any decently fit dread will tank 15,000 DPS in siege. Drones have been nerfed from the beginning of the game. They are lol in the dps they do vs a gun boat until fighter bombers came along. I think ccp underestimates their player bases capabilities in finding effective fittings for tank on carriers and dreads.
Drones as they are only tickle a dread, they are totally useless for carriers and moms with just fighters. Lets face it ccp hates drone boats thats all. So we can stick with our 7000 DPS moros and 20,000 something DPS titans as I hear but who knows what happens when you stick 3 magstabs on the titan. lol Prob do 25,000 DPS. Carriers also have insane tanks like over 20,000 with triage.
So I don't see how these dreads are insta poping to 9000 DPS drones when a decently fit dread will tank 15,000 DPS. I'm lost in where the line is drawn when something is labeled overpowered. Is it vs sub capital stuff or something? Because last time I was in a titan I could insta pop a nighthawk standing still from 60km away with blasters. So I don't see the issue here. It shouldn't have been standing still at 60km away.
So fighter bombers would do similar things to stuff standing still. Then don't stand still, they do crap damage to stuff moving. No smart pilot will stand still. You know whats funny. The tracking on capital turrets is so laughable now that blasters will miss another titan going 100m/s. And thats at about 10km away. Theres something wrong with that picture isn't it? How can a gun miss something thats 15km long. I think somebody is abit too nerf happy. This isn't balancing, its the devolution of technology in eve. Instead of advancing everything deadvances in eve.
And its getting to the point where no amount of skills can fix how rediculess the nerfs are getting. Atleast pirate ships are how they should be now. So why shouldn't super capital ships be the end all weapons in the game when they should be? They cost a fortian only alliances can afford.
Most dreads will have a burst tank that might hit 10-15k and will last a few minutes max a perma tanking dread will tank around 10-12k if shield based 7-13k if armor based but will have no damage mods ect fitted so is generally an unrealistic setup.
Triage carrier will again tank around 10-13k perma tank with max skills (need carrier 5 and capital armor reps 5 + compensation skills Lv5 for 13.7k archon) yes overloading can get you more but that will only last you so long and drugs again can provide benefits but they also have downsides such as reduced cap if unlucky reducing the length the tank can be sustained.
TBH tho the figuresd are irrelavent since you are not supposed to have a solo pwn mobile with a mom and if you want to argue that dreads would be moms primary targets so they should be able to break them well currently dreads shoot dreads and if you use the above figures they cant get near breaking them solo but those figures are not realistic and dreads (like moms) are not used solo by experienced players anyway.
I can get the tanks much higher then that on eft.
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Fogy
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.26 04:57:00 -
[1929]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Hi, everyone
We have been carefully watching this thread and I want to set the record straight on a few misconceptions.
First, IÆd like to say that a single developer cannot come in and unilaterally change everything with no oversight. People are spewing a lot of hate at CCP Nozh but instead itÆs a case of shooting the messenger. He is just doing his job trying to improve the game and explain the reasoning for why changes were made. We work as a team and agree on the direction things are taking. We want the game to be balanced and fun for everyone to play. We also think about the future of the game and how it will be in years to come after our changes weighing the medium- and long-term repercussions.
Thanks for listening
CCP Hammerhead
Lead Game Designer
I am having a REALY hard time beleaving 100% in this.. He might be the messanger, but if you are a team of devs working on this. How come you dont run your posts, espechial in such a hot thread with eachother?
It doesnt realy help any one when a dev sais we should use targetpainters with fighterbombers.. any one with theyr brains in the right place knows the obvious.. painters dont work on sieged dreads, triaged carriers, or structures..
Removing the HP buff after giving titans a supercannon? realy?.. YOU MAD?!
Ican agree that beeing able to do ~12500 dps with my nyx with fighterbombers lvl 5 would be abit over powerd.
But this doesnt mean i agree on the shipp getting less dps then a dread when using the fighterbombers on a sieged dread. In this case with the previous anouncements of Abathur, the SC class was supose to be a Capital ship killer. Wich means Dreads would be our primary class of shipp to engage. closely followed by carriers, then other motherships and titans.
The removal of the HP buff is a punsh below the belt for us. Now only the mentaly ******ed and/or insane will put a mothership in a combat situation..
3 DDs will kill any mothership regardles of how pimp the fitting is. 3 DDs is prety standard in EVE right now.. Gues how hard it will be to send 3 titans in to instapopp a mothership, resulting in a loss of anywhere from 16-50bill isk.
Please reconsider keeping the HP buff, and preferably the jump range buff.
All whine and emo aside, It would be REALY interesting, to the 0.0 community, to get a reply from you Developers, on when we can expect some changes to the motherships class... if ever?
Cheers!
Fogy
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"EVE Online: Shenanigans"
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Sith LordX
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Posted - 2009.11.26 05:18:00 -
[1930]
Also false advertisement is not good on the player base. You showed fighter bombers in dominion trailers when that was a lie because the promised changes will never be seen in dominion.
How about you reverse the changes of titans all together. Or get moms back into a decent state.
1.HP buff back to the way it was at a similar level to titans so they are not insta poped, they are still a super capital ship class so they should reflect that toughness.
2.Fighter bombers 15 fighters max, this will make them 2x more powerful then motehrships are currently but about the same level as a dread. Compact torps still do crap damage to sup-caps.
3.Remove so and so mothership bonuses that applied to moms. And make them super carriers again.
4.Reduce the price to 6bill on them.
5.Still don't allow them to dock.
Then deal with the aftermath. And fix it in patches after dominion. Deal with the balancing then. Don't just give up and give us a half completed product. Unless you really want mom's to stay in pos's for the next 6 months in fear of being insta poped by a titan. Because currently like its been said over and over again. Motherships are in a state of epic fail right now.
The titan upgrade has made motherships stupidly outdated for the modern battlefield. And should be decommissioned or recalled. For a total revamp and upgrade to stay alive in these times of newer deadlier weapons. They will not survive, they will be called primary and insta poped. Because their stats are pretty LOL at this point compared to a titan. They can nolonger be in the same class as a super cap. They can't even be called that. They are pretty fragile now. They use to be good. Now they are just doomed to failure as out dated monsters that once where great now they are nothing but as good as rubble.
After dominion = free mothership kills for all.
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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE
H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2009.11.26 07:32:00 -
[1931]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Please remember that we are here to make a game that you all love to play. None of us comes to work thinking of ways to enrage the playerbase.
So the devs aren't malicious, they're just incompetent. That's no consolation.
--
Eventus stultorum magister. |
xOmGx
Gallente
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.11.26 08:42:00 -
[1932]
CCP you FAILED again
So as you reseted all changes fot mothership on SISI (including HP buff)
Do same for Titans and for Titan DD device (anyone want to see mom poping from 2 DDs?)
And go actualy play game and learn how things wotk in there.
Owerpowered isn't a realy good word for somesing with price tab 16 and 64 bill. it need to be affactive according to it's PRICE.
No Pain - No Gain |
Aequitas Veritas
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.26 09:00:00 -
[1933]
I wouldnt be too worried about Motherships being released without the HP buff and jumprange increase. Those two doesnt affect the game that much.
With regards to Titans tho. Their current incarnation won't be used for anything but bridges. Its pathetic that ships that keeps being used as showoffs in most of EVE's trailers (incl moms) are nothing but exatly that, fancy showoff pixels for movies...
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
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casai
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
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Posted - 2009.11.26 09:33:00 -
[1934]
sooo i was watching they new trailer and it a appears a chimera was fireing weapons
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casai
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
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Posted - 2009.11.26 09:51:00 -
[1935]
Edited by: casai on 26/11/2009 09:54:02
soo now we go from 400k shield to 2 mill shields down to 30k shields i would assume it was a bug but people are saying that it is going live (well there not comeing out of the pos shields any more so i supposed u could stick the hp down to 1)
how about ccp just removes them from the game
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Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.11.26 10:16:00 -
[1936]
Originally by: Aequitas Veritas
I wouldnt be too worried about Motherships being released without the HP buff and jumprange increase. Those two doesnt affect the game that much.
With regards to Titans tho. Their current incarnation won't be used for anything but bridges. Its pathetic that ships that keeps being used as showoffs in most of EVE's trailers (incl moms) are nothing but exatly that, fancy showoff pixels for movies...
EXACTLY!!! First thing you hear in the Dominion trailer opeining engagement is "All ships focus fire on that supercarrier (Aeon)" and then at the end you see 2 Titans instapop a Nyx. They show them off in the videos and screenshots in these huge fleet engagements even though they know they arent being used. So they use them as sell pieces for new people to say "OOOHHH AHHHHH" even though they are useless in today's fleet warfare. |
Lith Erivi
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.26 10:22:00 -
[1937]
I love how the dominion page has a fighter bomber as the centerpiece when they aren't even going into the game. Real classy CCP. Rub it in a lil more.
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Miyamoto Isoruku
Caldari
The Phoenix Enclave
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Posted - 2009.11.26 10:51:00 -
[1938]
The threadnaught condensed: http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=4_48&page=1
Seriously, I have no idea what CCP was doing by reverting Abathur's changes. They had been thoroughly tested and very well-received. I think we, your paying customers, deserve some kind of explanation as to why these radical changes were implemented. I also think that it's rubbing salt in our wounds to post a trailer showing all the cool stuff that we won't get to play with. Truth in advertising, anyone?
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New ones
Caldari
Koln united
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Posted - 2009.11.26 11:59:00 -
[1939]
Originally by: Miyamoto Isoruku
The threadnaught condensed: http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=4_48&page=1
Seriously, I have no idea what CCP was doing by reverting Abathur's changes. They had been thoroughly tested and very well-received. I think we, your paying customers, deserve some kind of explanation as to why these radical changes were implemented. I also think that it's rubbing salt in our wounds to post a trailer showing all the cool stuff that we won't get to play with. Truth in advertising, anyone?
http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=4_48&page=1
Fixed the link
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Michelle Blair
Defiance Corporation
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Posted - 2009.11.26 13:15:00 -
[1940]
Originally by: Lith Erivi
I love how the dominion page has a fighter bomber as the centerpiece when they aren't even going into the game. Real classy CCP. Rub it in a lil more.
Yeah.
Well, Only 1 account left that hasn't run out of time. Surely they will get the message eventually if they lose 25K or more subscribers over this stupid expansion and over the top nerfs.
The plea to not blame Nozh for everything doesn't make me want him fired for this any less. It just makes me want the OTHER incompetent idiots who were part of his committee or whatever fired with him. They can all go to Austin and work for SOE, I hear they are DESPERATE for Devs for DCUO, since they can't keep any (it's a complete revolving door) and they don't have any talented ones on that MMO anyway (they are now mostly ex NGE devs) so these guys would fit right in.
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Michelle Blair
Defiance Corporation
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Posted - 2009.11.26 13:21:00 -
[1941]
Originally by: xOmGx
CCP you FAILED again
So as you reseted all changes fot mothership on SISI (including HP buff)
Do same for Titans and for Titan DD device (anyone want to see mom poping from 2 DDs?)
And go actualy play game and learn how things wotk in there.
Owerpowered isn't a realy good word for somesing with price tab 16 and 64 bill. it need to be affactive according to it's PRICE.
This is my biggest issue with them pulling the MS changes and going ahead with the dread nerfs... They are leaving the supertitans in. Clearly they are extremely unbalanced vs all other capital ships now, with them getting much stronger vs caps, especially with the huge HP disparity, and all the others getting weakened.
I happen to be a dread/carrier pilot, and I'm pretty ****ed off by the weapons changes.
I just don't see the logic of thinking that the titan changes were not bad, but the original changes for motherships and dreads were. I can see the logic of nerfing the **** out of dreads and turning motherships into flying coffins while leaving the titan changes in unchanged even less.
They need to either make changes to ALL capitals so that they balance vs each other in this new paradigm, even if the expansion has to be delayed by weeks, or they need to withdraw ALL capital changes and leave them as is on TQ until they have time to get it done right. Deferring something like this to "maybe later, if ever" never makes anyone happy and only makes CCP look bad.
Furthermore, as I've said earlier, this sudden desire to "rock paper scissors" EVERYTHING is a simplification of the game that reeks of dumbing down, perhaps for Dust514.
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HELIC0N ONE
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.26 13:50:00 -
[1942]
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Zitha
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Posted - 2009.11.26 16:20:00 -
[1943]
Originally by: Lith Erivi
I love how the dominion page has a fighter bomber as the centerpiece when they aren't even going into the game. Real classy CCP. Rub it in a lil more.
I was thinking the same thing.
It's really pointless to keep asking CCP wtf is up now, they'll eventually do something about it in due time (hopefully sooner than 2 years).
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Deleware
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Posted - 2009.11.26 16:43:00 -
[1944]
Edited by: Deleware on 26/11/2009 16:44:44
Everybody is talking about balancing Moms by damage output and so on.
But why not make the Mom usefull by orther means.
What I was thinking about:
It is a Super Carrier, a Mothership, why not give the Mom the ability to carry Battleships.
Boost the tanking ability that it won't get popped to fast, but don't give it the monster damage bonus.
We allready have loads of dmage on the Battlefield. All the dreads and the Titans and stuff.
Moms should be more defence.
Right now we have Dreads vs. Titan and vice versa.
BS vs. carrier
----------
1.
The Titan Area effekt wich was mainly used against support and BS fleets is gone.
So this gap can be filled by Moms with the fighter Bombers, but not as an Area Effekt. Make it more like an Anti BS fleet ship.
2.
So right now we have with Moms:
The area ECM Burst thing (which is quite useless. to weak against dreads and carrier and BS lock fast enouph)
make it a bit stronger.
3.
The Command Module thing which was talked about in this thread is quite good I think.
make it so :) maybe not so powerfull with all command modules or so. but one or two capital Command Module. (hence not all bonus from one ship)
4.
Make the Mom be able to carry around 20-30 BS ->with<- Pilots.
The good thing about this is, that smaller Alliances can actually use some sort of bridging system which could before only be used by Alliances with titans.
Furthermore, thats what a Mothership, judging by the name, should do in the first place, be a "Mother". :)
5.
Make it a bit cheaper.
It should not crumble a smaller Empire when one MS is lost. That way it will get used in the field more.
6.
And last, make the Moms tank strong enouph to actually hold out for a bit on the field.
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Eklykti
Caldari
Zion foundation
Red Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.26 16:54:00 -
[1945]
Edited by: Eklykti on 26/11/2009 16:54:26
I'm too lazy to read all topic, but I heard that 2 titans will instapop the motership now. OK, I can't fly motherships yet, but if their HP will not be changed, then damage from doomsday on them should also be unchanged.
So, motherships must at least have a bonus for 97.5% resistance to all types of superweapons.
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PureWoman
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Posted - 2009.11.26 17:10:00 -
[1946]
hello CCP.
i have a one small question.
Why dont change titan to planetary bomber, super carrier and dred in one (carier with 35 fighters/fighter bombers + 7x capital turret/citadel launcher) + gateway for fleets?
People dont need super weapons to destroy mothership with 2 or 3 blasts
or dreds in one big blast. Niece fight = long and hard fight, without DD.
Please understand that... Titans are the biggest mistake in this game.
Please have a balls to change it.
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Van Doren
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Posted - 2009.11.26 17:18:00 -
[1947]
Edited by: Van Doren on 26/11/2009 17:19:10
Originally by: PureWoman
hello CCP.
Please have a balls.
Fixed!
ticktockticktock 5 days left - Still no answers from dev since Hammerhead (there was enough decent feedbacks after that post for more than a year of development), still no patch notes........
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Kersh Marelor
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.11.26 17:38:00 -
[1948]
Originally by: Van Doren
ticktockticktock 5 days left - Still no answers from dev since Hammerhead (there was enough decent feedbacks after that post for more than a year of development), still no patch notes........
They refreshed the Dominion features website and added the trailer. If that's to be of any use then Abathur's changes got to TQ it seems: Aeon is called a Super Carrier and Fighter Bombers are on the field.
Ah, who am I kidding... I look forward to a lot of POS sightseeing these days :/
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Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2009.11.26 18:25:00 -
[1949]
Supercaps being worthwhile mainstays on the field was a nice idea and we were so close to it. I guess we will have to make do with moms doing what they've always done (nothing/dying) with no more than "we're going to continue to look at them" as reassurance and titans JBing subcaps and killing station hugging dreads and carriers.
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Johnette Napolitano
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Posted - 2009.11.26 19:19:00 -
[1950]
Latest announcement is for a mass test this Friday. My question is why? We've already wasted a lot of time testing and fine-tuning stuff you aren't going to implement, how do we know you aren't pulling the same bait and switch this time as well?
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Soleil Fournier
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.11.26 20:58:00 -
[1951]
Edited by: Soleil Fournier on 26/11/2009 20:59:09
HP buff reported to be OFF of sisi. Any mom that exits the pos shield will be 1-shot by titan DD's.
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Severion Atarkos
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Posted - 2009.11.26 21:00:00 -
[1952]
Edited by: Severion Atarkos on 26/11/2009 21:01:37
CCP,
I understand you are wanting to make the game balanced and fair and that's fine, however you are not making it balanced at all.
By keeping Moms at their current TQ specs you are assuring they are severely nerfed and broken.
The fact that a double DD can instapop a "SUPERCAP" is ******ed. I think the majority of us would be happy with just 2 changes that will not overpower the ship.
1) Boost the HP so they will not die to 2-3 DDs which is very common.
2) Increase jump range so they can move with carrier/dread fleet.
TBH I just want the HP buff so I don't die instantly or forced to sit in a pos until you make up your mind what you want to do with the ship.
I know you are very busy CCP Hammer but please reconsider and give the HP buff to the moms, they will be severely nerfed and hardly balanced for a supercap.
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Lith Erivi
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.26 21:39:00 -
[1953]
I actually had an argument with CCP Weirdfish about this on SISI and he said a few things like "They didn't want to change something with the MS when it wasn't a complete change" and that they reverted the MS changes because "No one liked them" So I am not really sure what they are smoking but whatever. Ive accepted the fact that I cant log in my MS char for the next 6 months to a year.
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F'C
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Posted - 2009.11.26 22:13:00 -
[1954]
Disclaimers: I did not read the previous 57 pages. I don't fly capitals. Even so, throwing these ideas out there...
Role and balancing ideas:
Titans - remove jump bridge. This is not the role of a "Big Gun"; compensate with some (more) offensive / defensive goodies. (perhaps immune to other Titan DD's as well, but that would be a simultaneous bonus and nerf).
Super-carriers - give them ability to use jump bridges. Carriers are logistic oriented. Here's a defined role for them. This combines well with Clone vat bay.
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Jit ah
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Posted - 2009.11.26 22:18:00 -
[1955]
Originally by: Battle Tested
"Regrettably, we've come to the point where we can no longer commit to making Motherships the monsters they're supposed to be for Dominion. However, we are going to continue refining their schematics, keep our welding torches hot and you should see them undocking from the shipyards again once we and the community are happy with their balancing."
WE, the community, WERE happy with the balanced changes from CCP Abathur.....YOU, CCP Nozh, changed it to make us unhappy with them. And all the while WE, the mothership owners, spent billions of isk for a ship that has and will remain broken after all the positive work, testing, and feedback towards it? It is YOU, the developers, who cant seem to get it right. YOU, CCP Nozh, have completely screwed up the titan, mothership, naglfar, and phoenix. THIS, capital warfare, is the most sought after pvp amongst most 0.0 players. WE, the ones who fly capital ships, have told YOU what we thought was right and wrong in these changes/fixes and yet YOU refuse to listen and/or respond to us. Do YOU expect us to just sit back and remain calm while YOU destroy the ships that we have spent so many months to fly? Convert that game time over to real life money @ 15 USD per month....in truth you are literally ripping us off. Change the isk value of a mothership to GTCs and convert those same GTCs to real life money and see how much you are ripping us off for....Is that any way to treat your customers? Do you really want to ignore your customers? Research other MMO's that aren't around anymore that were blackballed by the playerbase (I wont mention the companies b/c you ninja delete any that refer to specific ones) and you will find the #1 reason why they got blackballed is because the playerbase's feedback was ignored. History repeats itself and YOU should learn from the mistakes made in the past from other companies similiar to CCP. WE aren't telling YOU these things to troll or flame...WE are telling YOU these things because WE love the game and WE want to see it improved.
lol, bought a ship before he perceived the value would go up and got burned by playing the market, then got mad about a free expansion, and confused the whole company working on a patch with a single person who posted about it.
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Kel Arkir
Biotronics Inc.
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.26 22:40:00 -
[1956]
Originally by: Lith Erivi
I actually had an argument with CCP Weirdfish about this on SISI and he said a few things like "They didn't want to change something with the MS when it wasn't a complete change" and that they reverted the MS changes because "No one liked them" So I am not really sure what they are smoking but whatever. Ive accepted the fact that I cant log in my MS char for the next 6 months to a year.
Appearantly they judge the declining amount of hateposts in this thread as an indicator of our happiness, disregarding that most of us simply gave up and ...
...accepted having a character being stuck useless in a pos.
...simply cancelled their subscription.
But not just the MS pilots got shafted, any dread using Missiles got shafted too.
You can create funky models to equate virtual outcomes of virtual battles.
But if that funky model has nothing to do with the ingame reality, be it since you suck at math or just dont play the game, odds are that what you think might improve gameplay, does the exact opposite.
MS being twoshotted by Titans and damage reduction for capital Missiles on dreads is exactly the kind of change that does not improve gameplay. Infact it makes people question the competency of the developers.
PS:Running around on the testserver with your spawned officer fitted Nightmare killing off anyone in the FFAs doesnt count as playing EvE and/or pvp experience in my book.
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Greg DaimYo
Caldari
Biotronics Inc.
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.26 23:03:00 -
[1957]
Quote:
I know you are very busy CCP Hammer but reconsider and give the HP buff to the moms, as they stand they are severely nerfed and hardly balanced for a supercap.
Just quoting this from the Sisi-Thread.
Just this one little change would be adequate, even if you chose to postpone all other possible changes to Moms, because otherwise I won't be able to even move my Supercapitalship between spots aside from inside a pos-shield to a deep safespot and vice versa. The constant fear that there might be two titans around makes it just to risky for a 15+ bil ISK-ship to do anything else.
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Lizzy Delmordaine
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Posted - 2009.11.26 23:08:00 -
[1958]
Edited by: Lizzy Delmordaine on 26/11/2009 23:08:23
Way to go CCP... You failed miserably by keeping must of the eve population in 0.0 p***** off with the upcoming dominidiot patch. You guys really should look at it from the 0.0 based people... ok you are going to open it up to others... they will move in and get crushed... by the super powers over and over again... theres no room in this game for the lil man who hasno assets or the income to even touch well established allainces... come on guys the NC alone has 30+ titans 3x times that in motherships... and god knows how many in cap ships and support... that goes for the south too... NO LIL MAN WILL EVER BE ABLE TO HANDLE THAT!!! HINT FIX DOMINION BEFORE RELEASE>>> IM OFF TOPIC ABOUT SUPERCARRIES>>> But oh well get over it... FIX THE WHOLE DAMN THING!
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Sethose Olderon
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.26 23:09:00 -
[1959]
Listen up CCP, and listen well. You already have several black marks beside your name in my book.
Firstly, the consistent and pervasive dragging of your feet in regards to the industrial revamp that was promised now 2 patches ago. Quantum Rise was not an industrial patch as it was originally designed, merely an attempt to placate the industrialists because of the feet dragging.
Secondly, the blatant disregard for the opinions of your customers that this Mom fiasco now proves, and subsequently deleting posts of those who disagree with your actions.
WE PAY YOUR SALERIES, WE ARE WHAT ENABLE YOUR COMPANY TO EXIST, WHAT ENABLES IT TO MAKE A PROFIT, YOU SHOULD REMEMBER THAT.
And lastly, the continuous postponement of Incarna (Walking in Stations). Even though there was never a release date given, I think its obvious the release date for this has been repeatedly moved back (Others will debate the importance of this, but this is my opinion and a negative mark for me).
So, stop giving us information about what you plan to do in expansions and then killing them at the last minute. EITHER DON'T MAKE PROMISES YOU CAN'T KEEP, OR BUCKLE UP AND GET IT DONE.
You must realize there are other games soon to be released that will challenge even the small niche that play Eve. You had best listen up and as another poster mentioned, learn from the mistakes made by other companies and listen to your customers or you will quickly find yourself in a very bad situation.
Corporate & Alliance Owned Stargates
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Taco Torpedo
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Posted - 2009.11.27 00:14:00 -
[1960]
Edited by: Taco Torpedo on 27/11/2009 00:16:23
Apparently according to ccp via there new Dominion Features page that started advertising the final changes for Dec 1, motherships will have fighter bombers, hp buff, and no more triage and all that stuff. http://www.eveonline.com/dominion/features.html
While I highly doubt this its intersting that they have not updated any of this info.
P.S. Maybe they should let MS pilots dock there ships until the changes come out, with the ability to only undock it once without the ability to redock. At least that way ppl arnt wasting there time just sitting in a pos.
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Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.11.27 03:49:00 -
[1961]
Originally by: Taco Torpedo
Edited by: Taco Torpedo on 27/11/2009 00:16:23
Apparently according to ccp via there new Dominion Features page that started advertising the final changes for Dec 1, motherships will have fighter bombers, hp buff, and no more triage and all that stuff. http://www.eveonline.com/dominion/features.html
While I highly doubt this its intersting that they have not updated any of this info.
P.S. Maybe they should let MS pilots dock there ships until the changes come out, with the ability to only undock it once without the ability to redock. At least that way ppl arnt wasting there time just sitting in a pos.
Aye, great idea...It isnt fair that they have neglected the mothership for so long and then once there was a brief light of hope...they revert everything. Mothership pilots should just all petition it and continuously do so until something is done instead of wasting a perfectly good character to hold one useless ship. |
Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2009.11.27 06:50:00 -
[1962]
Edited by: Natasha Nikolaev on 27/11/2009 06:50:50
Originally by: Lith Erivi
I actually had an argument with CCP Weirdfish about this on SISI and he said a few things like "They didn't want to change something with the MS when it wasn't a complete change" and that they reverted the MS changes because "No one liked them" So I am not really sure what they are smoking but whatever. Ive accepted the fact that I cant log in my MS char for the next 6 months to a year.
Weirdfish is a clueless intern.
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BlitZ Kotare
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Posted - 2009.11.27 08:26:00 -
[1963]
Originally by: Severion Atarkos
Edited by: Severion Atarkos on 26/11/2009 21:01:37
By keeping Moms at their current TQ specs you are assuring they are severely nerfed and broken.
The fact that a double DD can instapop a "SUPERCAP" is ******ed. I think the majority of us would be happy with just 2 changes that will not overpower the ship.
1) Boost the HP so they will not die to 2-3 DDs which is very common.
2) Increase jump range so they can move with carrier/dread fleet.
Seconded.
Also, whats up with the capitol damage changes? The nerfs to the Phoenix and Nag (yes, the Torp/Cruise change IS A NERF - it will take Phonnix and Nag pilots a month or more level the new skills during Dominions launch - arguably the time when they will need their damage output most) just mean that the Rev and Thanatos, already the most used dreads, will only beome more popular. The damage graph changes show that apparently your trying to make all the dreads damage outputs the same - why? Give them all a defined role! Don't make all our ships the same - who wants to spend a year training to get into a faction Dread thats the same as every one?
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Teck7
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.27 08:57:00 -
[1964]
CCP has not made a reply to this thread in 7 days or since page 43.
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Lizzy Delmordaine
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Posted - 2009.11.27 10:44:00 -
[1965]
CCP wont reply to this thread ... since they dont give a s*** about the players thoughts or concerns or there ideas about the game. They dont care about the veteran player that must of us have at least 2 accounts compared to the noob that they are trying to attract. Way to go CCP for pushing the veteran player's that loved this game away.
7 DAYS AND NO REPLY>>> YOU GUYS ARE A D*** JOKE AS A COMPANY THAT TOTALLY RELIES ON ITS PLAYERS... WTF!!!
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Miss Monroe
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Posted - 2009.11.27 11:03:00 -
[1966]
the end is near
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Zerobyte1
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Posted - 2009.11.27 12:15:00 -
[1967]
CCP,,,anyone of importance,,,,please reply to this thead and let us know you care......
Pretty Please
Zero
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kapten sortebil
Phantom Squad
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.27 14:30:00 -
[1968]
Found somthing preaty epic:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1221226
or just direct link:
http://www.eveonline.com/dominion/features.html
CCP are stil advertising the old changes by Abathur.
Seems they have found out the new changes are stupid and is newer gona atract new players.
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Severion Atarkos
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Posted - 2009.11.27 14:43:00 -
[1969]
Originally by: kapten sortebil
Found somthing preaty epic:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1221226
or just direct link:
http://www.eveonline.com/dominion/features.html
CCP are stil advertising the old changes by Abathur.
Seems they have found out the new changes are stupid and is newer gona atract new players.
It was an error and they are changing it, even the op in the thread say Abathurs idea was good.
CCP this must be addressed ASAP!
Either one of the two need to happen
1) Give moms the hp buff/jumprange boost
or
2) let us dock them so we don't have to fly the piece of **** you call a supercap
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Severion Atarkos
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Posted - 2009.11.27 14:51:00 -
[1970]
Originally by: Lizzy Delmordaine
CCP wont reply to this thread ... since they dont give a s*** about the players thoughts or concerns or there ideas about the game. They dont care about the veteran player that must of us have at least 2 accounts compared to the noob that they are trying to attract. Way to go CCP for pushing the veteran player's that loved this game away.
7 DAYS AND NO REPLY>>> YOU GUYS ARE A D*** JOKE AS A COMPANY THAT TOTALLY RELIES ON ITS PLAYERS... WTF!!!
I guarantee you if we threadnaught, they will look at that instantly and say we shouldn't do it
Keep ignoring your customers ccp and I promise you will go the way of SWG in a heartbeat. There are a **** ton of new games coming out that have much more promise then this ****hole you call Eve Online at the moment.
Don't get me wrong, I love this game but I will go find another if you go through on patch and don't address the mothership at all. Give us an hp/jumprange buff or lose your credibility, customers, and hope of making this a great game.
You say you want Eve to be a great game but it will be a pile of worthless **** if you "revamp" caps and leave the mothership as is on TQ at the moment.
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Galleter
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Posted - 2009.11.27 16:29:00 -
[1971]
Edited by: Galleter on 27/11/2009 16:32:46
800 cap boster ->
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plik:Ericsson_bakelittelefon_1931.jpg
Ultimate 800 navy cap booster ->
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1e/Dialog_knappar_1969.jpg/200px-Dialog_knappar_1969.jpg
This is TRUE PROBLEM OF EVE.
technological death
to many nerfs - to little boosts.
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Lizzy Delmordaine
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Posted - 2009.11.27 16:34:00 -
[1972]
STILL NO ANSWERS FROM CCP... GUESS THEY DONT CARE ABOUT THERE CUSTOMER BASE... WAY TO GO... FOR LOSING CUSTOMERS... WHO IS IN CHARGE THERE... WHO EVER IT NEEDS TO BE REPLACED... SERIOUSLY... LISTEN TO YOUR CUSTOMERS ON THIS THAT PLAY THE GAME DAY IN AND DAY OUT... IF NOT... SWG ALL OVER AGAIN... COME ON YOU GOT ALLAINCES THAT DONT AGREE ON ANYTHING EXCEPT THIS HINT>>> HINT>>> YOU BETTER LOOK TWICE AT THIS BEFORE YOU FIND YOURSELVES HOSTING A GAME WITH NO PLAYERS EXCEPT YOU YOURSELVES ON THE TEST SERVER THINKING YOU KNOW WHAT PLAYERS WANT OR JUST DONT CARE!!!
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Bill Gatez
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Posted - 2009.11.27 21:10:00 -
[1973]
Take a lesson from history and real life...carriers work because they launch their fighter from a safe location to go kill the bad guys. A carrier/mom itself can be weak and are weak...allow them to send their fighters one jump away or something along those lines and beef up the fighters strength. The line from the dev blog about them not having a niche is untrue they just arn't being used as designed....STRENGTH THROUGH FORWARD DEPLOYMENT OF FORCE. Sorry if this has been said but i wanted to hopefully add some constructive criticism.
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Sarah Meow
Biotronics Inc.
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.27 21:44:00 -
[1974]
I am quite annoyed actually, that you still didn't reply to our concerns. Are you just not interested in your customers, or what is it?
You should never forget, that your jobs are paid by us!
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paik
Minmatar
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.27 22:33:00 -
[1975]
Some exciting new content you are giving us CCP. Did you see those brutix's on the banner? Wow im impressed so much that im cancelling my accounts.
Hey CCP go suck a mother****ing **** you dumb ****ing ****s.
Ban me from the forums about it as I wont be playing this **** game anyway.
________________________________________
LOLNOZHLOL |
Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.11.27 22:39:00 -
[1976]
Amazing that just over 3 days are left until the update is applied to TQ and CCP has either
A) false advertising on their Dominion page whereas their developers have stated those features will not be delivered.
B) committed to yet another waffle and gone back to the original mothership / supercapital changes by Abathur.
Addressing some posters above: We do not know if our subscription fees directly pay the wages of the development team, do we? They may have large rounds of private venture funding of which we are completely unaware. Hilmar's stated goal of 600k subscribers leads me to believe that he got a barrel full of cash and now needs to deliver big time on investor returns. << Pure speculation on my part, though.
The most effective thing that we, as a loyal player base, can do is hold CCP publicly accountable for what they promise to deliver as compared to what they actually deliver via updates and patches. Make sure that CCP prospective customers know how awesome (or not) the newly patched game turns out to be. That can only work in everybody's favor if CCP is on top of their design, development, testing, UAT and release processes, right?
Furthermore, it is not too much to ask for CCP to pay attention to and communicate on the details -- especially if CCP is making Singularity open for [mass]testing. After all, how could CCP expect its loyal players (and testers) to effectively review changes if they are not comprehensively informed on that which they may be testing?
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Arramis
Minmatar
ROMANIA Renegades
Primary.
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Posted - 2009.11.27 23:42:00 -
[1977]
Why so many questions?..
We`ve got vertical crap again...aren`t you proud?...`couse I am. I bet mmo comunity will apreciate every word.
Keep it going...good job!
------------------------------------------
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c0rn1
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.28 00:28:00 -
[1978]
Thank you, CCP, for locking up my main char in a mothership for the next year or more after me wasting hours on SiSi to test the former changes you made.
Thank you for taking the p1ss out of your customers. May I send you the bill for the wasted man hours? I only charge Ç 75,- / h with my company as a friends' price. Expect a letter soon.
You see a very satisfied customer here!
cheers
c0rn1
x x x x x x x x x x x x x x
Life's a waste of time ...
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Lizzy Delmordaine
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Posted - 2009.11.28 01:06:00 -
[1979]
CCP is failing at what they call customer service... customer appreciation... without us they have no company... why are we being ignored... do you care about what we think as a player base... or are you just trying to bring in new player base with lies... that dominion trailer needs to be changed it has nothing on it as in major changed that will take place on this patch besides that sorry a** sov system... way to fail CCP!
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Moga WyrdSeeker
Section XIII
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.28 01:27:00 -
[1980]
Edited by: Moga WyrdSeeker on 28/11/2009 01:31:32
Edited by: Moga WyrdSeeker on 28/11/2009 01:31:07
WONDERFULL !
Even if my Nagflar cap size is the worse...
Even if my Nagflar cap recharge rate is the worse...
Even if my Naglfar has already two weapon system and splitted damage modes...
I can always fit ONE gyrostab to have normal damages with my capital ACs, even if they have already crappy range and useless fallof, and are fitted on the dread with the worse capacitor of all Eve history !
I'm SOOOOOO happy !
But.... where are my slots to fit other gyros and ballistic controls to deal like the other dread ?
Seriously, go play to your game instead of playing wizard in wow, where you never fight at short range, like Eve capital ships.
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Princess Morticia
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Posted - 2009.11.28 05:37:00 -
[1981]
1) Fire CCP Hammer
2) Fire CCP Nohz
3) Delay expansion one week.
4) Do what you promised the players.
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Teck7
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.28 06:01:00 -
[1982]
CCP has not made a reply to this thread in 8 days or since page 43.
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Aprudena Gist
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.28 07:17:00 -
[1983]
Originally by: Teck7
CCP has not made a reply to this thread in 8 days or since page 43.
And don't expect them too. This is not a place for them to converse with players they tell you how **** is and dont care about the players.
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Stella's Rage
Caldari
Stella Rage
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Posted - 2009.11.28 10:52:00 -
[1984]
Dear CCP Santa
On the 1st december please set up a special Cyno beacon that only mom pilots can lock onto somewhere deep in Jove space, so we can all go to the nerfed to uselessness retirement home and live in peace and tranquility seeing out our remaining subbie days with 20 mining drones free from the tyranny of being instajibbed by a passing titan blob or for that matter some 2 week old noob in a L4 mission runner torp golem with triple republic nozh target painters.
Yours,
THe retired and disabled Mothership veterans of eve.
Caution: Does Violence Against Spaceships due to strong lager intake. |
New ones
Caldari
Koln united
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Posted - 2009.11.28 11:14:00 -
[1985]
We pay your salury, you shuld realy listen to us, and atlest give uss a good damn answer!
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malet
Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2009.11.28 11:29:00 -
[1986]
nice dominion trailer CCP. shame you have messed up supercaps so much that they wont be used like that. Still now at least we have the pleasure of sitting in a pos for another six months while paying our subsciptions
way to screw over the very people that pay your wages.
Roll on star trek online
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Zerixx
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Posted - 2009.11.28 11:59:00 -
[1987]
Edited by: Zerixx on 28/11/2009 12:01:23
Edited by: Zerixx on 28/11/2009 11:59:59
Wouldn't be just simple not to make/promise so many dramatic changes in 1 expansion to avoid crucifiaction by players ?
just my 2 cents
btw all we have new browser so we can watch moar p0rn
PS. Stella u have smashing idea about this retirement centre :) |
Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.11.28 12:00:00 -
[1988]
Maybe i missed something- if the changes are on hold why does everyone feel their mothership is "worthless" now?
Is it because the new dd can two shot them?
On a similar subject- threads like this are created for feedback- you really shouldnt expect every post to be answered by ccp.
And to all the self-rightous "ccp owes me because im a customer" posters- your one customer out of tens- maybe hundreds- of thousands. Your bound to not agree with something ccp does eventually. Dont take yourself so seriously- life does go on.
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Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.28 14:14:00 -
[1989]
Originally by: Future Mutant
Maybe i missed something- if the changes are on hold why does everyone feel their mothership is "worthless" now?
Because it is worthless now- they have no use. If it gets fixed later it might become valuable, but if the Devs have anything to do with it they will keep them useless.
Originally by: Future MutantIs it because the new dd can two shot them?[/quote
You think?
Originally by: Future MutantOn a similar subject- threads like this are created for feedback- you really shouldnt expect every post to be answered by ccp.[/quote
Maybe not every post. But 2 Posts made for 1900 player posts is not very good is it? |
ByFstugan
Big Shadows
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.28 16:09:00 -
[1990]
I've tried to be constructive only in this threads about the change of the Motherhips to Super Carriers - but this is now at a state worst of all time in the "solutions" from CCP about this topic before Dominion.
I've been on the opposite side than many in those threads and accually liked most of the changes that was on the table - but the last change I think put me on the same side that rest that this road is stupid. And not very little either.
One cannot change the Titans to Capital Killers and at same time keep the motherships without at least the HP-buff (which must be a need in any coming change anyhow).
I cannot see this reaction as anything else than a revenge from CCP to all the insane namedropping and smacktalk versus CCP staff - which was really a big amount to much imo - but doesn't call for this withdrawal that makes the insane overpriced and underachivement Motherships to an even worse ship to own. People hardly ever used them before - and now it would change from stupid to field a MS to insanely stupid - all due to lates "solution".
Where are the boldness from CCP to make changes they belive in? From where came this wierd reaction? CCP, you should respond and change (again) before Dominion kicks in - otherwise U'll loose credibility even from those who understand the hard position U R in when it comes to making a balanced product and the impossible one to make everyone happy.
_______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
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Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2009.11.28 17:27:00 -
[1991]
Edited by: Natasha Nikolaev on 28/11/2009 17:31:41
Originally by: ByFstugan
Where are the boldness from CCP to make changes they belive in?
The problem is they obviously didn't really believe in the changes "announced' by Nozh. When CCP has an unpopular change they really believe in, like the nano nerf, they DO go through with it.
Quote:
I cannot see this reaction as anything else than a revenge from CCP to...
I don't think it's revenge. The closest any dev got to revenge was Nozh's "Let's see...". What I do think is they got scared Abathur's initial changes might end up turning 0.0 into all unkillable spidertanking sc hotdrop gangs so they tried to tone their dps down and make them require support but cut the price nearly in half to compensate. The problem is by toning them down they blurred the DPS line too much with dreads and they went about making them require support in a terribly wrong way. After the quite hot and horrible responses to this, Nozh tried to placate us by putting drone count at 15 and allowing them to dock. Most people that had a clue understood how horribly high the abuse potential was for dockable SCs and while 15 drones was better than ten, most people still complained there was no reason to not have it at the original 20. Even worse, the explosion velocity was still at a horrid 3500m. These changes were obviously very suspect from the start as CCP didn't even bother having them put on SISI and likely never got there due to our very quick and angry reaction. After seeing how angry we were, and not being very confident or happy with where they had taken SCs, they called it quits. I really wish they had tried more ways to reduce the possibility of SC spam/OPness and increase their need for support (such as significant increases in build time, removing RR range bonuses, etc.) but it's done now. All I can hope for is that they actually continue to work on them after dec 1st and hopefully have something good ready for dom 1.1. Unfortunately, I can't help but think of the poor Deimos, the posterchild for ships having badly-needed boosts axed last minute with the "we'll continue to look at this" line and then summarily forgotten.
Quote:
all the insane namedropping and smacktalk versus CCP staff - which was really a big amount to much imo
CCP really did bring this upon themselves. The changes themselves were certainly a large part of it, but the reaction was driven over the top by how the changes were handled and justified. CCP gave no word from the point Abathur's changes went on SISI up until the new changes that they were unhappy with the direction they were going and/or their possible OPness. They simply put the changes on SISI and said nothing about it until 2 days later. And while their broad reasoning behind the changes they made are understandable (given their concerns) they went about it (and justified it) in ways that made it look like they really didn't understand what they were dealing with (cap warfare on TQ). It is enormously frustrating to have people that don't seem to know what they are dealing with making enormous changes to something you love. All of this with no real explanation but a few very vague comments and phrases that could be pulled out of the strikingly few posts made by Nozh.
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.28 18:02:00 -
[1992]
Edited by: ByFstugan on 28/11/2009 18:05:29
My main problem atm is that if NOTHING is made now with the Motherships they will be more broken than before (and they really was due to how EVE evolved), and we cannot know how long we might need to wait to see a fix for this ships. Knowing CCP that might take years in worst case scenario, eventhough I don't think it would take that in this case I do think the time anyway would be to long. Whatever this ships are made an HP-buff is needed to a such expensive ship - and that should be made 1:st of December.
On the long run I think the suggestion of turning it to a fighting Flagship with the role of giving gang bonuses (in some way) and also having Fighter Bombers to be able to fight with Capitals is the best solution. This means no more Logistics bonus (the explision speed on FB's bonus on Hel was good also as new bonus) and no more Clone Vat Bay (as earlier suggested).
IF CCP is set to reduce the number of max drones to MS's (or what they will be called) they should change the Drone Control Unit to give two extra drones per module on this ships, so the new bonus is "Can fit 1 additional Warfare Link module per level and Drone Control Unit". This way the pilot gets to choose if he wants to focus on firepower or gangbooster (or defense in nos's and smartbombs and remote ecm). I say this since I'm certain it's almost decided from CCP's part since they wanna reduce lag ingame.
Even if the new Flagship would get most of it's tank (with HP buff that was on table earlier) from it's EHP it really should get an active tank bonus so there will be any point in fitting an active tank - even if resist and depending on logistics carriers would be better in larger fleets.
The Gang bonuses could be applied in different or several ways:
- Same as in Command Ships, but higher boost per level on the active modules.
- An new Capital Boost modul that give all bonuses as the regular gang bonuses does in it's type (armor, shield, skirmish, EW) or some new type.
- An similar (or same) bonus as Titans got that's passive and don't require modules.
- An bonus that increases the effectivnes of active bonuses depending on position in fleet. For example normal bonus as squad commander, stronger as wing commander and max as fleet commander.
When it comes to the EW immunity I think it depends on if the price get's reduced - but if it does it should not have this anymore, even if it perhaps should have higher sensor strenght and have 10+ (or something) in warp stab strenght in hull.
Perhaps the additional fighter Control Range also should apply to drones?
Also the Jump Range should be about 4,8 in base so they can tag along with JDC4 Dreads.
_______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.11.28 18:53:00 -
[1993]
Not to be a total **** to all the whiners in this thread- but seriously some of you need to grow the hell up.
Read the post above mine- by ByFstugan
A great example of how a constructive post looks.
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Soleil Fournier
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.11.28 20:54:00 -
[1994]
Edited by: Soleil Fournier on 28/11/2009 20:55:41
Originally by: ByFstugan
Edited by: ByFstugan on 28/11/2009 19:03:27
My main problem atm is that if NOTHING is made now with the Motherships they will be more broken than before (and they really was due to how EVE evolved), and we cannot know how long we might need to wait to see a fix for this ships. Knowing CCP that might take years in worst case scenario, eventhough I don't think it would take that in this case I do think the time anyway would be to long. Whatever this ships are made an HP-buff is needed to a such expensive ship - and that should be made 1:st of December.
On the long run I think the suggestion of turning it to a fighting Flagship with the role of giving gang bonuses (in some way) and also having Fighter Bombers to be able to fight with Capitals is the best solution. This means no more Logistics bonus (the explosion speed on FB's bonus on Hel was good also as new bonus) and no more Clone Vat Bay (as earlier suggested).
IF CCP is set to reduce the number of max drones to MS's (or what they will be called) they should change the Drone Control Unit to give two extra drones per module on this ships, so the new bonus is "Can fit 1 additional Warfare Link module per level and Drone Control Unit". This way the pilot gets to choose if he wants to focus on firepower or gangbooster (or defense in nos's and smartbombs and remote ecm). I say this since I'm certain it's almost decided from CCP's part since they wanna reduce lag ingame.
Even if the new Flagship would get most of it's tank (with HP buff that was on table earlier) from it's EHP it really should get an active tank bonus so there will be any point in fitting an active tank - even if resist and depending on logistics carriers would be better in larger fleets.
The Gang bonuses could be applied in different or several ways:
- Same as in Command Ships, but higher boost per level on the active modules.
- An new Capital Boost modul that give all bonuses as the regular gang bonuses does in it's type (armor, shield, skirmish, EW) or some new type.
- An similar (or same) bonus as Titans got that's passive and don't require modules.
- An bonus that increases the effectivnes of active bonuses depending on position in fleet. For example normal bonus as squad commander, stronger as wing commander and max as fleet commander.
When it comes to the EW immunity I think it depends on if the price get's reduced - but if it does it should not have this anymore, even if it perhaps should have higher sensor strenght and have 10+ (or something) in warp stab strenght in hull (or perhaps immunity to scrams/distrupts). It also could keep an resistance of about 50% to EW instead of immunity (exept for to the warptabs).
Perhaps the additional fighter Control Range also should apply to drones?
Also the Jump Range should be about 4,5 in base so they with JDC5 can tag along with JDC4 Dreads, since I think it's strange of a ship in this size have same jumprange as Dreads.
Great post.
That's pretty much in line of what I was thinking when suggesting turning them into flagships. It just fits the ship so well. Reducing the fighter bonus to +2 and then making DCUs add +2 fighter bombers gives versatility for those that prefer more damage, but keeps the ship from being overpowered if the pilot chooses bonuses instead (which FC's would be banging the pilots over the head with a stick if they chose not to use the bonuses).
Hopefully CCP likes this role for the ship, maybe even one of them would like to comment on that? /nudge /nudge.
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Princess Morticia
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Posted - 2009.11.28 21:17:00 -
[1995]
I just think in this case the question of which way the balancing will go is like a diversionary tactic by CCP. The real issue here with this expansion cycle shows plainly the cancer that is festering at CCP with respect to devs lying to players.
That's why there need to be FIRINGS at CCP. At least demotions. This is no different than the T20 incident. CCP's credibility with the players is at stake, not some silly question of "to nerf, or not to nerf".....
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Kateryne
Minmatar
Nisaba Syndicate
New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.28 23:37:00 -
[1996]
I think it's pretty abhorrent of CCP to not respond to long threads like this.
To be honest, even a "Shut the hell up, we don't care what you think and THIS is how the expansion is going down!" style reply would be welcomed - it would show they are at least listening.
I don't think the forums should ever directly influence CCP's decisions, but I do think that if they are going to treat it as their number 1 information dissemination tool they should at least post on it regularly.
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Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2009.11.29 03:11:00 -
[1997]
on the other hand i think its a bit rich to expect anyone at ccp to be responding just because people are posting the same whines they posted before the last response. Ive noticed CCP will quite happily let a thread stew if they have nothing new to say and i think thats a good thing. I expect once they have something new to give on this issue they'll let us know.
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Morphisat
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2009.11.29 08:29:00 -
[1998]
Originally by: Kateryne
I think it's pretty abhorrent of CCP to not respond to long threads like this.
To be honest, even a "Shut the hell up, we don't care what you think and THIS is how the expansion is going down!" style reply would be welcomed - it would show they are at least listening.
I think they already said that but in more politically correct wording. What more do you want ? (Besides a new plan for motherships)
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Hrodgar Ortal
Minmatar
Ma'adim Logistics
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Posted - 2009.11.29 09:24:00 -
[1999]
Originally by: Kateryne
I think it's pretty abhorrent of CCP to not respond to long threads like this.
To be honest, even a "Shut the hell up, we don't care what you think and THIS is how the expansion is going down!" style reply would be welcomed - it would show they are at least listening.
I don't think the forums should ever directly influence CCP's decisions, but I do think that if they are going to treat it as their number 1 information dissemination tool they should at least post on it regularly.
They have responded FAR more than any other mmo company I've had the "pleasure" of being a customer of.
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Lira Reib
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Posted - 2009.11.29 10:53:00 -
[2000]
Hey guys, the patch notes are up and guess what!
They completely ignored this thread.
http://www.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp
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Del Girl
Shade.
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.29 10:54:00 -
[2001]
Decided to test this on Sisi so logged the Titan and Nyx on.
Erebus in Squad command with Nyx in squad so it was getting the Level 4 bonus. I put all hardners on apart from the Thermic Hardener. The Nyx 2 Corpum A Type EANMs and the Damage Control. It was just over 575k armor including the bonus.
Del Girl > 10:35:13 Combat Your Aurora Ominae hits (Nyx), doing 1156875.0 damage.
Nyx Exploded.
Just waiting for a corp mate to log into test or another mirror so i can see what it does will all hardeners on.
Del
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New ones
Caldari
Koln united
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Posted - 2009.11.29 12:25:00 -
[2002]
It seems CCP has done a good joob baning a lot of pepole posting in this thread:
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1217073/page/60
(i got two chars banned from posting on forums)
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Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
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Posted - 2009.11.29 12:49:00 -
[2003]
I just did a quick test on SiSi, the siege module still doesn't affect the sig radious of dreads. It was a rumour floating around saying that it would but that isn't the case.
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TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari
United Systems Navy
Zenith Affinity
|
Posted - 2009.11.29 14:07:00 -
[2004]
I am very much looking forward to watching the useless pieces of **** that are motherships be one shot by titans in dominion. Score one for ccp.
_______________________
Fix rockets in '09 =( |
Arramis
Minmatar
ROMANIA Renegades
Primary.
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Posted - 2009.11.29 14:39:00 -
[2005]
the only thing we cand do is to send an open letter with the link from the eve-files...to all mmorpg sites.. i bet we cand move the mountain.
Cheers.
------------------------------------------
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steveid
Helljumpers
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Posted - 2009.11.29 18:05:00 -
[2006]
i dont understand why people think all races ships should be as good as each other. The mini race is a skirmish race. I would expect superiority in sub bs and inferiority in above. Seriously if it bothers you then dont fly the ship.
Inappropriate signature removed. Zymurgist |
T'Karr
Minmatar
Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2009.11.30 00:42:00 -
[2007]
Thanks CCP for replying to us and explaining why we were all ignored in the latest patch notes...
I play Football Manager Live, and Si completly ****ed up a few days and alienated their players by telling them they were resetting the servers, loosing all players and skill points... There was (and still is) a massive threadnaught (nearly as big as this one) and their dev team responded to almost EVERYONES questions.... Not just 2 or 3 responses from the Dev team... literaly a response to every question that was bought up... And it looks like the Dev team are listening to the customers and are going to bring in a few ideas that were bought up, and even give out free game time and refund some people who bought yearly subscriptions....
Thanks CCP... we feel so great being ignored!
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New ones
Caldari
Koln united
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Posted - 2009.11.30 01:20:00 -
[2008]
Acoring to patch notes. titans are not getting HP buff either.
Usless ships..
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Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2009.11.30 01:35:00 -
[2009]
Originally by: New ones
Acoring to patch notes. titans are not getting HP buff either.
Usless ships..
wait wat?
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Dynaverse Corporation
Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.11.30 02:17:00 -
[2010]
Originally by: T'Karr
Thanks CCP for replying to us and explaining why we were all ignored in the latest patch notes...
I play Football Manager Live, and Si completly ****ed up a few days and alienated their players by telling them they were resetting the servers, loosing all players and skill points... There was (and still is) a massive threadnaught (nearly as big as this one) and their dev team responded to almost EVERYONES questions.... Not just 2 or 3 responses from the Dev team... literaly a response to every question that was bought up... And it looks like the Dev team are listening to the customers and are going to bring in a few ideas that were bought up, and even give out free game time and refund some people who bought yearly subscriptions....
Thanks CCP... we feel so great being ignored!
If you feel that Mom changes being deferred until after Dominion launches is on the same level as the entire game being reset back to zero, you have bigger issues than can be addressed in this thread.
Seek help now!
=====
If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.30 05:56:00 -
[2011]
mothership changes will probably go in quitely around christmas new year
Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Natasha Nikolaev
|
Posted - 2009.11.30 17:42:00 -
[2012]
Originally by: HeliosGal
mothership changes will probably go in quitely around christmas new year
Please, just stop posting.
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kittypaws
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Posted - 2009.11.30 18:10:00 -
[2013]
Edited by: kittypaws on 30/11/2009 18:10:03
Originally by: Natasha Nikolaev
Originally by: HeliosGal
mothership changes will probably go in quitely around christmas new year
Please, just stop posting.
This is a typical CCp way of doing things ;)
And what is it now? +2 weeks since any ccp dude cared to answer in this post?
and titan fleet want's to be boosted!
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4527/36191035.jpg
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.30 19:05:00 -
[2014]
Originally by: kittypaws
and titan fleet want's to be boosted!
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4527/36191035.jpg
Imagine the number of MS's that would instapop next to that :)
_______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
T'Karr
Minmatar
Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2009.12.01 16:46:00 -
[2015]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: T'Karr
Thanks CCP for replying to us and explaining why we were all ignored in the latest patch notes...
I play Football Manager Live, and Si completly ****ed up a few days and alienated their players by telling them they were resetting the servers, loosing all players and skill points... There was (and still is) a massive threadnaught (nearly as big as this one) and their dev team responded to almost EVERYONES questions.... Not just 2 or 3 responses from the Dev team... literaly a response to every question that was bought up... And it looks like the Dev team are listening to the customers and are going to bring in a few ideas that were bought up, and even give out free game time and refund some people who bought yearly subscriptions....
Thanks CCP... we feel so great being ignored!
If you feel that Mom changes being deferred until after Dominion launches is on the same level as the entire game being reset back to zero, you have bigger issues than can be addressed in this thread.
Seek help now!
So you didnt read or understand my post properly then... your fault not mine.
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Lightfoote
|
Posted - 2009.12.01 18:40:00 -
[2016]
im sure this has been said numerous times before, and been ignored aboput 600 times..... but as a 6 year devoted player... i would like some answers. hell, dont even reply here, send me an email in game via the "shiney new and improved email" system that clearly received the priority of work over something that was broke and needed fix, other then something that wasent broke but got fixed anyway. we have 60 pages of people who have played the game, understand it, and in some cases live and breath it. EVERYONE is saying that the changes, or lack thereof dont work, and in fact make things worse. how can any company that expects to keep its customer base expect this sort of BS to work? you give us acsess to a test server in the hopes that real players will test and provide feedback and support on new patches/changes/issues/bugs etc, but when everyone says something you dont listen and do the opposite? im at a loss as to how this is going to increase your player base and retain clients... personally....and i hate myself for this.... but startrek online is looking more and more attractive. proove me wrong and fix this before half your client base migrates to a potentially better game. in the mean time, im gonna see about finding some pointy ears on ebay.
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Sokkolf
|
Posted - 2009.12.01 19:42:00 -
[2017]
Even though I have only been playing for a little over a month; I am enjoying the challenges that the creators of EVE have done. I am really excited over Dominion in what is being changed and the sovereignty aspects, it all sounds like it is going to be a lot of fun. What I don't understand all of the negativity of some of the pilots. So something didn't work well in the test server, so instead of doing half-arsed, lets scratch it and put it as a priority for a up-and-coming expansion which may focus on MOMs and other cap warfare.
Seriously, some of you folks are worse than the nutjobs over in WoW; if you want to throw a tantrum and get your way then go over there.
In my opinion things will smooth out over time; you have dealt with the ships being as they were before Dominion and now you won't have to worry about changing.
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Evil Bugger
Gatecrashers
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Posted - 2009.12.01 19:50:00 -
[2018]
Originally by: Sokkolf
Even though I have only been playing for a little over a month; .
and that gives you 0% qualification to even START talking about the problems of supercap pilots.
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Longinus Astartes
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Posted - 2009.12.01 23:03:00 -
[2019]
Well, the Titans did get the HP buff. Don't think the MS did. But the titans now have 1.3mil hp base in their tankable, and proportional increases in the others.
MS though...
Goddamn, that sucks for you guys. |
Evil Bugger
Gatecrashers
|
Posted - 2009.12.02 16:41:00 -
[2020]
So now let me get this straight, now there is no hiding in the fog of patch notes.
Titan - big EHP buff.
Titan - new one shot 3m damage instajib DD.
Titan - can now fire DD in lowsec and one shot a carrier, freighter, jump freighter, and 2 can kill the momship.
And you thought MOTHERSHIPS were gonna be overpowed wtfsolopwnmobiles?
so all the motherships now can be oneshotted in nullsec AND in lowsec by a pair of bored titan pilots, and since most lowsec corps dont have the isk or manpower to field a 50 man dread army with lolpainters then its just fun n joy for the titan pilots with their new wtfbbqmobiles.
Now which part of you should be surprised when mothership pilots don't feel willing to pay you 15 bucks a month for the priveledge of hiding in fear due to your complete lack of conviciton to follow thru abarthurs changers?
if there was to be an example of why the old project manager led system of development worked better than scrum, this would be it - last minute developer cold feet and panic creates utter chaos.
Please, for the love of god, hire some critical chain project managers, let them run the show and just stick to being code monkeys since making these kind of decisions is clearly out of your "team led approach's" abilities.
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.02 18:31:00 -
[2021]
This old post I did is still a very good solution imo. Whatever happens the important thing is that it get a good HP-buff (ASAP) and a real role with matching bonuses. Sooner is better.
The old post:
My main problem atm is that if NOTHING is made now with the Motherships they will be more broken than before (and they really was due to how EVE evolved), and we cannot know how long we might need to wait to see a fix for this ships. Knowing CCP that might take years in worst case scenario, eventhough I don't think it would take that in this case I do think the time anyway would be to long. Whatever this ships are made an HP-buff is needed to a such expensive ship - and that should be made 1:st of December.
On the long run I think the suggestion of turning it to a fighting Flagship with the role of giving gang bonuses (in some way) and also having Fighter Bombers to be able to fight with Capitals is the best solution. This means no more Logistics bonus (the explosion speed on FB's bonus on Hel was good also as new bonus) and no more Clone Vat Bay (as earlier suggested).
IF CCP is set to reduce the number of max drones to MS's (or what they will be called) they should change the Drone Control Unit to give two extra drones per module on this ships, so the new bonus is "Can deploy 2 additional Fighters per level and Drone Control Unit". This way the pilot gets to choose if he wants to focus on firepower or gangbooster (or defense in nos's and smartbombs and remote ecm). I say this since I'm certain it's almost decided from CCP's part since they wanna reduce lag ingame.
Even if the new Flagship would get most of it's tank (with HP buff that was on table earlier) from it's EHP it really should get an active tank bonus so there will be any point in fitting an active tank - even if resist and depending on logistics carriers would be better in larger fleets.
The Gang bonuses could be applied in different or several ways:
- Same as in Command Ships, but higher boost per level on the active modules.
- An new Capital Boost modul that give all bonuses as the regular gang bonuses does in it's type (armor, shield, skirmish, EW) or some new type.
- An similar (or same) bonus as Titans got that's passive and don't require modules.
- An bonus that increases the effectivnes of active bonuses depending on position in fleet. For example normal bonus as squad commander, stronger as wing commander and max as fleet commander.
When it comes to the EW immunity I think it depends on if the price get's reduced - but if it does it should not have this anymore, even if it perhaps should have higher sensor strenght and have 10+ (or something) in warp stab strenght in hull (or perhaps immunity to scrams/distrupts). It also could keep an resistance of about 50% to EW instead of immunity (exept for to the warptabs).
Perhaps the additional fighter Control Range also should apply some range bonus to drones?
Also the Jump Range should be about 4,5 in base so they with JDC5 can tag along with JDC4 Dreads, since I think it's strange of a ship in this size have same jumprange as Dreads (said due to proposed changes to 5 in base).
_______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
krazyfish
|
Posted - 2009.12.02 22:40:00 -
[2022]
if this was an actual honest-to-god company that had any responsibility to its customers ;the marketing director should have committed sepuku with his gold plated ballpoint pen........
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2009.12.02 22:59:00 -
[2023]
Originally by: krazyfish
if this was an actual honest-to-god company that had any responsibility to its customers ;the marketing director should have committed sepuku with his gold plated ballpoint pen........
If youve ever wondered if it was time to stop taking pixel ships too seriously and move your 40 yr old ass out of your moms basement- it is if youve ever considered the above a suggestion.
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Evil Bugger
Gatecrashers
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 16:26:00 -
[2024]
Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: krazyfish
if this was an actual honest-to-god company that had any responsibility to its customers ;the marketing director should have committed sepuku with his gold plated ballpoint pen........
If youve ever wondered if it was time to stop taking pixel ships too seriously and move your 40 yr old ass out of your moms basement- it is if youve ever considered the above a suggestion.
to be fair to the man, or boy in his mommys basement as you would have it, the dominion teaser video bears absoloutly no relation whatsoever to Eve Online the MMO internet spaceships game.
The fact they advertising all these features and then delivered non of them shows CCP has no dialogue between its marketing and development team. Imagine coca-cola advertising coca-cola and the product development team delivering washing up liquid.
Thats CCP, that is.
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Hrodgar Ortal
Minmatar
Ma'adim Logistics
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Posted - 2009.12.03 16:32:00 -
[2025]
Originally by: Evil Bugger
Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: krazyfish
if this was an actual honest-to-god company that had any responsibility to its customers ;the marketing director should have committed sepuku with his gold plated ballpoint pen........
If youve ever wondered if it was time to stop taking pixel ships too seriously and move your 40 yr old ass out of your moms basement- it is if youve ever considered the above a suggestion.
to be fair to the man, or boy in his mommys basement as you would have it, the dominion teaser video bears absoloutly no relation whatsoever to Eve Online the MMO internet spaceships game.
The fact they advertising all these features and then delivered non of them shows CCP has no dialogue between its marketing and development team. Imagine coca-cola advertising coca-cola and the product development team delivering washing up liquid.
Thats CCP, that is.
Thats marketing in general.
What does the babes at autoshows (or calendars) have to do with the cars? nothing what so ever.
Do they sell cars? Perhaps.
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Nasty Thug
|
Posted - 2009.12.04 13:12:00 -
[2026]
Petition on Behalf of Mothership Pilots,
Calling all Mothership pilots affected by this nerf.
I have created a petition thread to request that all mothership owners + pilots who wish to do so, should have their motherships docked in a station by a GM for the duration of this nerf so they can free their pilots from them and no longer be required to support the timesink/cost of running a pos to keep them safe.
Petition
it is GROSSLY unfair of CCP to go ahead with the titan changes that allow titans to roam lowsec/nullsec at will and insta-pop any MS unfortunate enough to be caught by them, it is simply intolerable that we be forced to hide a 25bn inc fittings ship in a POS or at a deep-safe to avoid being insta-shot by a ship we have no chance or ability to kill or defend against.
CCP did not consider the side effects of buffing titans EHP whilst doing nothing for motherships, therefore effectively nerfing AGAIN an already nerfed class to make it combat ineffective in any role.
This request is to allow all Mothership pilots who wish to do so, have a GM dock their motherships in a station so they can leave them safely mothballed until CCP sort out this mess, this is a FAIR and DECENT action CCP can take to undo the mess they have left all MS owners in, it is GROSSLY unfair that we are being forced to pay a monthly subscription and tie up a pilot to keep a ship that the dev team have made both obsolete and completely vunerable to drive-bys.
This is NOT a request that MS should be dockable/undockable by design, only that the pilots who wish to do so can request a one time docking of their MS by a GM and leave them safely stored until they are properly balanced again.
I love my nyx, i worked my entire eve career to get it and i do not want to be forced to sell it, but also think it grossly unfair i have to keep a pilot offline for a ship I cannot use for any fleet benefit in any situation, therefore I would like to free my pilot to be able to fly a dread or another ship for the duration of this nerf.
please, apart from the ranting at CCP, all pilots who were affected by this please support the petition to get the CSM to urgently resolve this matter - its really just awful of CCP to expect us all to pay a monthly subscription charge and lose our main supercap pilot due to their lack of planning.
posting on an alt, due to being terrified of tracked down and jibbed by a titan griefer :(
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Scythius Howe
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.12.04 19:27:00 -
[2027]
Originally by: Evil Bugger
Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: krazyfish
if this was an actual honest-to-god company that had any responsibility to its customers ;the marketing director should have committed sepuku with his gold plated ballpoint pen........
If youve ever wondered if it was time to stop taking pixel ships too seriously and move your 40 yr old ass out of your moms basement- it is if youve ever considered the above a suggestion.
to be fair to the man, or boy in his mommys basement as you would have it, the dominion teaser video bears absoloutly no relation whatsoever to Eve Online the MMO internet spaceships game.
The fact they advertising all these features and then delivered non of them shows CCP has no dialogue between its marketing and development team. Imagine coca-cola advertising coca-cola and the product development team delivering washing up liquid.
Thats CCP, that is.
Well, listen. You've got two choices: A gigantic company like Blizzard/Activision who pretty much universally cater to the lowest common denominator and create games where you get Ubersword X with pretty graphics and absolutely no real challenge, or you can frequent a relatively small "mom and pop" store like CCP and get really what amounts to a better product for what amounts to less money. I'm not in favor of Wal-Marting (WoW-Marting?) my MMO's at this point. I just worry that the industry as a whole is being sucked up by craptastic games like WoW. Sure it runs, but it's the worst online game ever. I had more fun in Shadowbane than I did in WoW...and Shadowbane was a joke.
I'm nobody, I don't fly supercaps, and I'm a meganoob. I have online gamed for roughly 20 years, but I haven't online gamed in Eve for six.
You all have reasons to complain I'm sure, and I have no doubt that the criticisms are valid. I think it could be put a little bit better by some of you, however. I seriously doubt these guys have all the resources to make this game flawless instantly like you would want - like we would all want. It is most likely a matter of them prioritizing needs. This isn't some huge corp out in Iceland, you know.
Threatening to quit the game seems counterproductive and at best, vainglorious. Take away their revenue and eventually whatever investors they have will bail out and we will be playing Eve on some private server in Roosterpoot, Texas. Trust me, it happens very quickly. How these guys manage to stay in business by not charging for the game or for expansions is beyond me.
We have a unique position here, as far as I can tell, to help these guys build a big, quality game and push moronic fluff like WoW out of the market for good. I think we have a responsibility to do that, don't you? Hell, if nothing else, it will benefit us in the long run so that we don't have to go to a WoW or Star Trek Online...which has doubtful quality.
I've seen online games come and go, and this one has a lot more potential than any I've seen in a very long time. For whatever it's worth, this is my two cents.
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.05 12:36:00 -
[2028]
Can someone from CCP plz give an approximate ETA on the MS change plz? Where U at atm?
_______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Odda
Gallente
Phantom Squad
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.05 15:42:00 -
[2029]
Originally by: ByFstugan
Can someone from CCP plz give an approximate ETA on the MS change plz? Where U at atm?
'
/signed
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kapten sortebil
Phantom Squad
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.05 15:43:00 -
[2030]
Originally by: ByFstugan
Can someone from CCP plz give an approximate ETA on the MS change plz? Where U at atm?
'
/signed
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Oljud Zork
Evolution
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.06 13:17:00 -
[2031]
Originally by: dianathegreat
I have a idea it may have been proposed or not frankly i didnt read every single post the thought that ccp anounced was that they wanted either a more versitile mothership or a specialized one
my idea is for versatility instead of clone bays make it so motherships transport pod pilots in there ships exmple a mom pilot logs in several support ships aka dictors ,hic's ,logistics and dps ships enter maint bay of said mom and mothership then joins fleet with ships and pilots in tow and jumps to the fleets cyno pilots bringing the pilots with them the mothership lands in system and almost instantly ships imerge joining the fight much as a true navy carrier ship would do bringing not just automated defenses to a fight but distinct pilots
Have you ever used a "Clone Vat Bay I" on a Mothership?
That¦s basically how they work, you install a "Jump Clone" in the Mothership at the same time as you store your precious HIC, HAC or whatever you may fly in the Motherships "Ship Maintenance Bay". Return to a station with cloning facility's and wait for the Mothership to get in place...
When the Mothership has moved to the system you want to fight in, just activate your "Jump Clone" and you will find yourself floating somewhere in space in that system. Now warp to the Mothership and grab your ship...
The reason for not letting us dock our ships inside the Motherships are that the game mechanics can¦t handle it and what do you do when you have docked in a Mothership and he/she loggs off and you want to log in to EvE? How fun is it to get the error message "You can¦t log in right now because you are docked in a Mothership that¦s currently out of the game, try again later"
Don¦t try to invent the wheel again, it¦s already in the game!
Regards
// Zork
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Lo Res
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Posted - 2009.12.06 15:35:00 -
[2032]
Originally by: Evil Bugger
Originally by: Sokkolf
Even though I have only been playing for a little over a month; .
and that gives you 0% qualification to even START talking about the problems of supercap pilots.
This. This is the issue here. Look at the people posting in a 60+ page supercap rant. Being a 4-5 year subscriber of Eve does not entitle you to have your demands be met. The playerbase's interests must always be balanced with new AND old players in mind. CCP is looking to expand the playerbase, not cater to a few hundred old school curmudgeons.
**my personal opinon, it does not represent the opinion of my corp, alliance, race... yaddayaddayadda**
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StS ChaosEngine
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Posted - 2009.12.07 13:32:00 -
[2033]
I know its hard but can we get back to something constructive ? No ? okay i take the first step
I think CCP did a good job with the first and well tested Supercarrier release.
But what i think too: They felt that supercarriers got slightly too uber deploying 25 Fighterbombers.
Then they dicided too cut down max Fighters deployed to a maximum of 15 (including dronecontrol units)
Thats a 30% reduction in damageoutput using fighters/fighterbombers.
On the otherhand they wanted to reduce overall cost for a supercarrier arround 5 bil
Thats a price reduction of aproximatly 2/3 , wich meen even small corps could field mutiple supercarries and will
negate the damageoutput nerf completely.
What i would like to see is.
Let motherships as they be as present on tranquility with a few changes
That meens:
1 Clonevatbay remains fitable
2 Fighter deployment bonus stays as current
3 Limit Fighterbombers seperately maybe to a maximum of
8-10 using bandwith as a regulator.
4 hitpointboost to make prevent alphastrike killing a mom
by a single titan.
5 Leave the construction cost as it is now (15-20bil) that
will be the best regulator in terms of:
"oh i dont like to see 50ppl momshipfleets"
I guess thats the most simple way to keep the moms in game and make them something useful
Btw: The supercarriers could be introduced later on and maybe should range between carriers and moms
as intended.
They Could take the role as maybe a kind off assault
carrier using a greater number of
fighterbombers but have less defensiv capabilitys as a mothership but more then a standard carrier.
No triage and remote repair because they're attack ships. construcktion cost maybe 8-10 bil ???
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Dakius
|
Posted - 2009.12.09 01:33:00 -
[2034]
Originally by: New ones
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
This.
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New ones
Caldari
Koln united
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Posted - 2009.12.09 09:10:00 -
[2035]
Just for you nozh:
http://i49.tinypic.com/2prcscl.gif
i loled :)
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Vuk Lau
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.12.10 11:29:00 -
[2036]
10:58:47 Notify You cannot do that because it is currently against empire policy to launch, anchor or control objects of that type within their jurisdictions.
When we tried to doomsday in lowsec just before DT.
CCP awesome job with silent nerf. I see that you are back on good old track of fail.
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R0ze
Exile Consortium
|
Posted - 2009.12.10 19:35:00 -
[2037]
Silent changes are the most ******ed ones :(
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Guygeboe
Caldari
Viper Squad
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.12.11 12:05:00 -
[2038]
Originally by: Dakius
Originally by: New ones
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
This.
wow, what this guy said!
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Kel Arkir
Biotronics Inc.
Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2009.12.11 19:26:00 -
[2039]
That quote is older than the patch, CCP didnt give a **** about it.
In petitions about the MS they state that the community didnt want the changes.
Yes, read again, the "community".
>.<
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Empire Dweller
Pator Tech School
|
Posted - 2009.12.11 21:36:00 -
[2040]
Originally by: Kel Arkir
That quote is older than the patch, CCP didnt give a **** about it.
In petitions about the MS they state that the community didnt want the changes.
Yes, read again, the "community".
>.<
Yes because eve as well as every private company should be ruled by customers now.
As for the wishes of the community- do they care? maybe 5% of eve players fly anything bigger then a battleship- were not talking massively important here.
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|
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ForumAltPost
|
Posted - 2009.12.12 19:55:00 -
[2041]
I wonder if this target painting Dev team knows about Jumpgate Evolution. A new sci-fi spaceship based game that is coming out.
Keep this thread alive, keep posting and make sure you are heard. End the stealth nerfs, the lying, and wasting player's time on SiSi.
I'm annoyed by Nozh and disappointed by Hammerhead. I don't think I need to say why, because everyone else is more then explaining it to you two. I heard WoW might need some developers.
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Empire Dweller
Pator Tech School
|
Posted - 2009.12.12 21:39:00 -
[2042]
Yea a wow reference- you sir win the internets.
Also...
maybe 5% of eve players fly anything bigger then a battleship- were not talking massively important here.
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Kel Arkir
Biotronics Inc.
Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2009.12.13 23:34:00 -
[2043]
I bet more than 5% of the players in empire are members of remote slave corps that been used to farm the isk/minerals for those Motherships.
Think of all the hours of them mining Velspar is wasted now that the ships theyve been enslaved for cannot even leave their Posshield.
Think about it
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Head Puppet
|
Posted - 2009.12.14 20:32:00 -
[2044]
Here is my vision of a mothership, that should be able to comply with the current game mechanics. Make it like a mobile pos, with a full compliment of weapons capable of dealing pos like damage. Now make it so that the mothership pilot can eject and anchor the ship (re-entry to the ship would be PW protected) and now allow it to operate like a pos, giving corp mates, with the proper roles, control of the ship's weapons, remote reps, and e-war fitting. Also have the ship/pos provide a protective shield for other ships to retreat to during the battle. Give the mothship comparable hit points to a medium tower, which should not be too tough for a hostile fleet to pop unless there are friendly logistics repping the mothership. Anchoring and unanchoring should have very short timers.
This, along with the clone vat bay and the ability to carry/re-fit ships, would make this a truly unique vessel that would be tactically instrumental in large engagements.
Just a thought....
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Lord Eremet
|
Posted - 2009.12.15 18:12:00 -
[2045]
Originally by: New ones
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
This need to be repeated. A lot.
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James Razor
Amarr
The Executives
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.12.16 11:35:00 -
[2046]
Originally by: Lord Eremet
Originally by: New ones
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
This need to be repeated. A lot.
Yeap, and bump back to top. I hope CCP finaly reads it. But i am somehow afraid most of them is allready away for Christmas.
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ForumAltPost
|
Posted - 2009.12.16 13:02:00 -
[2047]
Originally by: James Razor
Originally by: Lord Eremet
Originally by: New ones
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
This need to be repeated. A lot.
Yeap, and bump back to top. I hope CCP finaly reads it. But i am somehow afraid most of them is allready away for Christmas.
If you do start to implement this Dev team.. forget about the target painters and 5 ADUs please.
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Meet Popsicle
|
Posted - 2009.12.17 21:32:00 -
[2048]
I have a question about the new citadel cruise missiles. Are the explosion radii of citadel cruise missiles effected by the skill guided missile precision and rigs associated with the reduction in explosion radii?
|
Kersh Marelor
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.12.18 01:06:00 -
[2049]
Originally by: New ones
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
This CCP.
Do this CCP and stop messing around and wasting even more time than has already been wasted. Moms were messed up long enough, you have a brilliant chance to improve them and make them fun to fly with and in fleet. So just do it...
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.12.19 02:03:00 -
[2050]
PART I
Mothership -> Flagship
This is a revised version of the change on Motherships into Flagships. This will make the carriers to be a Capital version of the Command Ships, with a logistics (eventhough the Command Ship only has the skill reqiurement) and a fighting version (which becomes the only real capital Command Ship). In this suggestion lies the former plans to give this ships access to the Fighter Bombers and make them grow some teeth on the capital battlefield. This I see as a must since the new bonuses/role to this ships must be of such kind that we start to see them on the battlefield and not only hidden under layers of dust in cynojammed systems. This ship has to long been the most underachieving and overpriced ship, and thatÆs what the coming transformation must solve.
First some general attribute changes:
- EHP
Since EVE has evolved in an such extensive way since the motherships entered EVE and was almost impossible to both kill and tackle the EHP needs to be buffed to about those numbers that was on SiSi earlier. The changes in EVE I talk about is:
- much more massive fleets in nullsec, including Dread fleets thatÆs about three figures large.
- we got both regular Interdictors and now also the Heavy Interdictors.
- the latest change to the Titans that today will only need two of them to instapop even an insanely tanked MS. Poorly tanked MSÆs dies from one Titan.
- Active Tank
As a sidenote I think that even if the new Flagship would get most of it's tank (with HP buff that was on table earlier) from it's EHP it really should get an active tank bonus so there will be any point in fitting an active tank - even if resist and depending on logistics carriers would be better in larger fleets. But it really should tank something like inbetween a regular carrier (not in triage) and a sieged dread. So some percental bonus to Capital reps/boosters would be good.
- Jumprange
Also the Jump Range should be about 4,5 in base so they with JDC5 can tag along with JDC4 Dreads. This since I think it's strange of a ship in this size have same jumprange as Dreads (said due to proposed changes to 5 in base).
Some ôno moreö changes:
- NO MORE Can fit Clone Vat Bay
Since the mothership role never been clear or really used.
- NO MORE 50% bonus to Capital Shield and Armor transfer range per level
Since the logistics role is filled by the regular carriers, which perhaps should be labeled Logistics Carriers.
- NO MORE Can fit Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration modules
This must go since the logistics bonus goes, unless this is changed to an fighting version module in some way on this ships.
Racial change:
- HEL RACIAL BONUS the last I recall from SiSi with Fighter Bomber explosion speed
IÆm not sure how this was written, but if Hel gets a bonus to better hit moving targets it both gets more usefull than earlier suggestions and itÆs also kinda in line with minmatar speciality thatÆs speed in general. Only this time hitting something with speed instead of getting own speed.
_______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
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ByFstugan
Big Shadows
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.12.19 02:09:00 -
[2051]
PART II
Description bonus changes:
- Can fit 1 additional Warfare Link module per level
- 99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules
Now this area is the one that needs most love since it would be one of the two large roles (gangboost and capitalkilling) for this ships. I donÆt have much to say about the old above quoted bonuses, but instead I have suggestion to what could be added to make this ships to Flagships.
The Gang bonuses could be applied in different or several ways of below mentioned:
- Same as in Command Ships, but higher boost per level on the active modules.
- An new Capital Boost modul that give all bonuses as the regular gang bonuses does in it's type (armor, shield, skirmish, EW). An alternative could be to make up some new gangbonus given from this capital gangbonus modules.
- An similar (or same) bonus as Titans got that's passive and don't require modules.
- An bonus that increases the effectivnes of active bonuses depending on position in fleet. For example normal bonus as squad commander, stronger as wing commander and max as fleet commander.
This part is suggested like this since I hope CCP themself is better than me (and the other ones I took some of the ideas from) to find the best and most balanced form for this ships.
- Can fit Projected Electronic Counter Measures
This should stay since itÆs the only ship that can use it, and itÆs a complement to the battlefield where this ships should be used in the future. Something thatÆs been very rare earlier. It also need to stay for all older pilots thatÆs trained for it and got it fitted. Also mentioned in below comment in another context.
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighters per level and Drone Control Unit
I think there should be more room for the need of compromise here when it comes to how each pilot wanna use their ships. And since the Drone Control Units is rather useless (especially on MSÆs) I think the solution is to change the above bonus like stated so that the more massive DPS needs some module-love to get. This way the pilot has to choose if their fit should be focused on DPS, gangboosting or defense (Remote ECM, Neuts, Smartbombs).
- 200% bonus to Fighter control range
This bonus should stay of course, and perhaps changed to also include regular drones so this drone-freak-Behemoths doesnÆt get T-rex arms when fighting with smaller Drones.
- Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare (and build cost)
When it comes to the EW immunity I think it depends on if the price get's reduced - but if it does it should not have this anymore.
It also could keep an resistance of about 50% to EW instead of immunity (exept for to the regular warp scrams/disruptors that is could be immune to).
_______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
ByFstugan
Big Shadows
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.12.19 21:48:00 -
[2052]
Edited by: ByFstugan on 19/12/2009 21:48:04
PART III
(tl:dr version)
Hel v.2.0
The Flagship is the optimal platform for large battles, both as a booster for all ships, big as small û as well as a badass damage dealer to the enemy capital fleet.
This ships changed from being a morale boost for the enemy from the time they were mediocre motherships and juicy kills û to now being litteraly a booster to friendlys and a nemesis for any hostile capital.
Since the old days this ships has been reinforced with a massive hit point buff and increased jumprange (4.5 in base) and has since then begun to be regular visitors to the battlefields.
Description
Minmatar Carrier Skill Bonuses:
- 5% to Fighter Bomber torpedoes explosion speed per level
- Can fit 1 additional Warfare Link module per level
- 5% bonus to effectiveness of Skirmish Warfare Links per level
- Can deploy 2 additional Fighters per level and Drone Control Unit per level
- 200% bonus to Fighter and Drone control range
- 25% bonus to Capital Shield Boost Amount per level
Role Bonus:
- Can fit [Capital?] Warfare Links
- 99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules
- Increased Leadership Boost effect when placed higher in Command in Fleet.
*Fleet (max) > Wing (better) > Squad (normal)
- Can fit Projected Electronic Counter Measures
- Can use Fighter Bombers
- Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare
_______________________________
The wise knows what he knows not. |
Khadann
Caldari
ICE is Coming to EVE
Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2009.12.23 21:13:00 -
[2053]
yep!
Hya! |
Sawk Backer
|
Posted - 2009.12.24 09:06:00 -
[2054]
Edited by: Sawk Backer on 24/12/2009 09:06:56
Simply give it the fighters bombers and an extra-hp boost. Lower the cost of 1B when removing clone vat bay and just wait and see.
Everyone seem to know better than others how Motherships will work.
Even with that boost, I do not think we will see many of them on the battlefield.
In the case this would be so overpowered that all mom pilots would decide to risk them on the fields, then rework it. But first put it the first boost it needs
Sawk - No pain , no gain .
Teamspeak renting for 1M per month per slot - Dedicated servers |
Deliceous
Lone Star Joint Venture
Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.12.29 07:01:00 -
[2055]
I think the mother ship split into 2 different Ships
A Capital Command/Troop Transport ship and a Electronic Warfare Ship.
First Super Capital Command/Troop Transport
The Goal:
Bring Troops in from remote places allowing most combat pilots Rat/Mine/Plex/WIS as the Super Capital Troop/Command Transport Works it way via cyno network of ships to its destination where it can call for pod pilots assemble and prepare for battle. This Ship would spend most of its time parked in a POS or a Safe Spot
This ship would be too large to Dock in an Expanded Station and would remain quite expensive.
This ship would be designed to work as a combat logistic horse for a small alliance or large corp
Keep
>>Clone Bay: Keep the 35 Person Clone bay so troops can be pick up in one location and cloned jump to a location on the other side of New Eden.
>>2.5 Mill m3 Ship Maintenance Bay: Keep the Corporate Hanger array or Expand its size to that of a Titan 5mil
>>Can Fit 1 additional Command Module per level
>>Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare
>>Keep most factors of the Mothership which has not been mentioned.
Change
>>The fighter count from 3 per level to 1 per level to match that of a carrier. (just enough to defend its self during to transport to the end destination.
>>>>May even want to restrict it to Drone and have a large Drone bay with a bonus done damage and hit points, maybe similar to the Rorqual, or Limit its fighter bay to 5 fighters and each level gained allow another supplemental drones.
>>For Minmatar Give 5% Per Skill level Bonus to HP for Fighters Structure, Armour and Shield
Remove
>>Logistic Repair Bonuses and Triage Mode as these will belong to the Carriers.
>>Remove the ability to fit a Projected Electronic Counter Measures Module
Add
>>Command Siege Module: Providing Bonuses appropriate to race much like the Rorqual, 5% pers skill level and a Possible watered down version of the Titains ô Gang Membersö Bonus for that race.
>>>>Allow the Increased in personal repair modules like in Deadnaughts and Carriers.
>>>>Keep it at a 5 min Cycle.
>>A special bay that will house 1 or 2 Dust 514 Battle barges which can be deployed for planetary assault.
Other Ships- Titan I would recommend limiting the titians Clone Bay to 6 ot 10 and Ship Maintenance Bay about 1mil as it does not get used that often to my knowledge in the first place and would make the Command Transport Ship more unique . The Titian Jump Bridges it fleet with it if it will be moving any ships or Pilots. (this Clone Bay and Hanger would be for the titian`s Personal Honor Guard)
The Electronic Warfare Capital
This ship will disrupt enemy ships in Blobs, but its main ôBad Hair Dayö (EWAR Ranged AOE) Weapon will work with the timing of the current Remote ECM Burst. It will have to rely on its Fighters, and Select number of Bombers to assist in the DPS of the battle and to defend its self. The 5 Fighter Bombers can be fitted with an array of different weapons to disable ships to allow the remaining fighters to kill the ship.
Keep
>>The fighter count to 3 per level,
>>Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare
>>Keep most factors of the Mothership which has not been mentioned Varying Stats accordingly for a smaller ship
Change
>>Shrink the Ship Maintenance Bay to 1 Mil the same as a carrier.
>>Increase the Jump Range to 5 from 4 as this ship will be smaller
>>The ability to fire a Projected Electronic Warfare Cannon that would shoot Areas effect Electronic ware far of: (The Race of the EWAR Cap Ship will have a bonus relevant to their race's preferred Ewar style)
>>>>ECM
>>>>Tracking Disruption
>>>>Sensor Dampening
>>>>Target Painting (all ships in burst Area will have in increased Sig Radius)
>>For Minmatar Give 5% Per Skill level Bonus to HP for Fighters and Bombers Structure, Armour and Shield
Add
To be ccontinued ...
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Deliceous
Lone Star Joint Venture
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.12.29 07:08:00 -
[2056]
((Continued from Preveous Post))
>>Add a Bomber bay to fit only 5 bombers, but allow the bombers to be fitted with specialty devices beyond Citadel Torpedoes like:to use Specialty weapons that may severely hamper a ship and give racial Bonus to the Race of Capital Ewar Ship: Neutralizing for Amarr, ECM for Caldari, Warp Disruption for Gallente and Stasis web for Minmatar. (may want to take away the bomber name and the Citadel Torpedos and call them Ewar Fighters and remove the limitation of the number of these alternative fighter type of ships)
Remove
>>Logistic Repair Bonuses and Triage Mode as these will belong to the Carriers.
>>Can Fit 1 additional Command Module per level
>>Clone Bay
In the end you will have:
>>Carriers that Specialize in Repair
>>Dreadnaughts in Destruction of Structures and Immobile Ships
>>Titans for Destroying Capitals and Inspiring Fleets (Boosts)
>>Command/Troops Transport û for Buffing and Supplying Smaller Number of Ships to the battle
>>Ewar Capital Ship. - The anti Blob, Debuff the enemy with additional Damage Dealing.
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riverini
Gallente
MOTHER-CORP
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.12.29 14:27:00 -
[2057]
Originally by: ForumAltPost
Originally by: James Razor
Originally by: Lord Eremet
Originally by: New ones
Just do this.
Motherships Get Dread Jump range.
Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier.
Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity).
Motherships get a EHP buff.
Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+
Motherships cant dock
Motherships dont get build costs reduced
Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage.
Titans Get 5minute DD timer.
Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan.
Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types).
Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types.
Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this.
Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base.
This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea.
Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something.
You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are.
You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced.
Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas.
This need to be repeated. A lot.
Yeap, and bump back to top. I hope CCP finaly reads it. But i am somehow afraid most of them is allready away for Christmas.
If you do start to implement this Dev team.. forget about the target painters and 5 ADUs please.
CCP are we paying attention here? HELLOO!!!! (Taps empty skull) anybody thereee?? 
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Empire Dweller
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.12.29 23:51:00 -
[2058]
Originally by: riverini
CCP are we paying attention here? HELLOO!!!! (Taps empty skull) anybody thereee??
If i ran the show id delay the changes by one week everytime i saw a post like this. Call it encouragement to those who need to find the door.
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ForumAltPost
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Posted - 2010.01.09 22:39:00 -
[2059]
/bump This thread doesn't need to die. CCP needs to damn well update and respond.
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Captain BushDog
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.10 04:15:00 -
[2060]
Can we Please get a response from CCP on this?
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