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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Pierre Louis
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Posted - 2009.12.04 16:16:00 -
[181]
 Originally by: Scythius Howe
I agree with this to a certain extent. However, this expansion is free which means they have fewer resources to work with. In all honesty, I would have paid for the expac just to have a stable product at roll out. Perhaps CCP should consider charging for it's expac downloads. I have no doubt that the base community would pay for them. Might scare off new customers, but that's what we call a Hobson's Choice...I believe.
CCP's current client-server model makes it impossible for someone with an older client to connect to Tranquility. This way, if they go to a payed expansion model the choice will be on players to either pay or quit the game and lose the time they invested.
In a way, this is what happened to the players on Mac OS X 10.4. It was supported when the first Mac client came out and now it is not. Therefore they will not look into what is causing Cider to crash before even launching EVE (we no longer get a warning that the OS is outdated).
This means, plain and simple, that if you bought EVE when it supported Tiger, CCP leaves you with the choice to either upgrade your OS or leave the game.
Windows XP should stop getting support from MS soon, I believe. I wonder what will happen the day CCP decides no longer to support XP, since Windows upgrades are much more expensive.
I agree that we're not paying beta testers for the game and lack of Sisi playing shouldn't be an excuse for the state of this client, either in Tiger or the Leopards.
One final remark: how many of us are still playing on Tiger? Every day I see a couple of new faces here saying they play on 10.4. How many is too few to justify dropping support?
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Scythius Howe
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.12.04 16:27:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Pierre Louis
Originally by: Scythius Howe
I agree with this to a certain extent. However, this expansion is free which means they have fewer resources to work with. In all honesty, I would have paid for the expac just to have a stable product at roll out. Perhaps CCP should consider charging for it's expac downloads. I have no doubt that the base community would pay for them. Might scare off new customers, but that's what we call a Hobson's Choice...I believe.
CCP's current client-server model makes it impossible for someone with an older client to connect to Tranquility. This way, if they go to a payed expansion model the choice will be on players to either pay or quit the game and lose the time they invested.
In a way, this is what happened to the players on Mac OS X 10.4. It was supported when the first Mac client came out and now it is not. Therefore they will not look into what is causing Cider to crash before even launching EVE (we no longer get a warning that the OS is outdated).
This means, plain and simple, that if you bought EVE when it supported Tiger, CCP leaves you with the choice to either upgrade your OS or leave the game.
Windows XP should stop getting support from MS soon, I believe. I wonder what will happen the day CCP decides no longer to support XP, since Windows upgrades are much more expensive.
I agree that we're not paying beta testers for the game and lack of Sisi playing shouldn't be an excuse for the state of this client, either in Tiger or the Leopards.
One final remark: how many of us are still playing on Tiger? Every day I see a couple of new faces here saying they play on 10.4. How many is too few to justify dropping support?
I play on 10.5.8. How much do you want to bet if they fix this problem for us it will bleed down to the older OS's and fix their problems too? This is some basic problem that somebody overlooked. Cross a t and dot an i and voila tis fixed.
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Sandar Orontur
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Posted - 2009.12.04 16:30:00 -
[183]
Originally by: CCP Casqade
For those of you who have missed it. Please take a look at the updated workaround steps on the first page and disable sound.
OK, so now we have to play without sound or not at all. And how long is this supposed to go on? Or is this meant as the permanent solution? If so, you've just lost one more paying customer!
Your information policy on this is REALLY lacking quite some. Permanent solution or not? If not, is this still being worked on? And what's the time frame you expect this to be solved?
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Ryel Theon
Epiphyte Mining and Exploration
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.12.04 16:31:00 -
[184]
Originally by: CCP Casqade
For those of you who have missed it. Please take a look at the updated workaround steps on the first page and disable sound.
I can confirm that this plus blowing away all of my preferences (ugh) got me up and running again. However, I've still experienced crashes (none of the fatal corrupted preferences kind -- just a simple running process disappears with no error messages).
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Pierre Louis
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Posted - 2009.12.04 16:34:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Scythius Howe
I play on 10.5.8. How much do you want to bet if they fix this problem for us it will bleed down to the older OS's and fix their problems too? This is some basic problem that somebody overlooked. Cross a t and dot an i and voila tis fixed.
Certainly hope so, but I'm not holding my breath. The two problems (Tiger and Leopards) seem to be very different in nature. No Tiger user has managed to even launch the game since the update...
I counted some 11 tiger users on the forum, btw. I think the total number of posters is around 50 or more (is there a way to find this out without having to count one by one?).
If this is a fair sample of the mac community, Tiger should be in around 20% (or less) of all macs running EVE. I guess that's too few to care about.
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Juliette Leblanc
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.12.04 16:37:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Sandar Orontur
That is unfortunately wishful thinking, to some extent. I have had 6 of these crashes so far. Overview settings and fittings can be restored from exported data, correct. But the rest of all my settings (most often) not.
After clearing cache and settings, I sat down and copied back my old settings files, one by one to get as much back as possible. Turns out, every crash corrupted DIFFERENT files, sometimes also just one, sometimes more. Depending on which files are affected, you get nothing useful back from copying the old backup files to the new settings.
1) delete both the cache and the settings folders
2) login to each account and each character and setup them the way you want (you can use exported files for overview and fittings, if you have them). Set windows positions, personalized shortcuts, general eve settings like graphic details and stuff.
3) logout
4) COPY both the cache and the settings folders do a safe location as a backup.
5) play eve
if eve crashes and you have corrupted cache/settings (currently will happen within 2 to 20 minutes depending on what you are doing, your setup and what graphic card you have), you will have to delete the corrupted cache and settings folders and then COPY back the ones you backed up.
Do not try to micromanage the files in those folders: copy the whole folders out for backup and back for restore.
Originally by: CCP Prism X
In New Eden, EVE wins you.
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Zapplin
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Posted - 2009.12.04 16:38:00 -
[187]
my corp is in war since today, but i canŠt log in. perfekt.
when will i can do it? i canŠt say it...
CCP! Please give us a feedback how long this nonsens will go on or make that "Mac unsupported" least official!
disable ingame sound is no reason.
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Elesentra
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.12.04 16:42:00 -
[188]
To those saying "Deleting the Prefs and then re-doing my overview/window postions/hotleys etc. is a pain"
I say:
TIME MACHINE
TIME MACHINE
TIME MACHINE
(unless you're on Tiger)
Each time I crash now, Time Machine has me up and running in 1 minute with all my previous settings intact.
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Pierre Louis
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Posted - 2009.12.04 16:48:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Elesentra
To those saying "Deleting the Prefs and then re-doing my overview/window postions/hotleys etc. is a pain"
I say:
TIME MACHINE
TIME MACHINE
TIME MACHINE
(unless you're on Tiger)
Each time I crash now, Time Machine has me up and running in 1 minute with all my previous settings intact.
Tiger users don't have this problem because the game doesn't run AT ALL for us. 
Also, does time machine require a separate HD to work? If so, then it's kind of unfair to expect everyone to use it, since not every one is interested in buying an external HD. Sure it's a great functionality, but not everyone is interested.
I'd be ok with all this if EVE were an off-line game (so that no matter what you can still play the old version that came out of the box) or if older clients could still connect to the server. The way things are though, people are being given the choice to either spend money to buy a new OS or stop playing.
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Sandar Orontur
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Posted - 2009.12.04 16:52:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Elesentra
I say:
TIME MACHINE
Thanks for the reminder! Doesn't help that much in my case, though. I use a laptop and am often not where my TM disk sits.
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Elesentra
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.12.04 16:54:00 -
[191]
Yes, extra HD required (or a partition on your existing one). External HD costs what? 2 Months of EvE subscription? Functionality = awesome. Time Machine is very regularly very useful to me.
I'm not saying it's the solution - we still want CCP to find out the problem and fix it - but Time Machine certainly keeps your downtime to a minimum while they're working on it.
As for Tiger issues - I suspect what someone said above is correct. There's a glitch in Cider somewhere, and it's the same glitch causing the problem for all Mac Clients. Once the Cider Glitch is fixed, even though it's manifesting differently on different OS versions, my *hunch* is it will fix them all.
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Sandar Orontur
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Posted - 2009.12.04 17:03:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Pierre Louis
Tiger users don't have this problem because the game doesn't run AT ALL for us.
I am one of those guys who switched from Tiger to Leopard ONLY for this game. Put me through lots of trouble with other software I'm using which had to be adjusted and what not. A nice total of 5 days of work, all in all, until I was back to a working state similar to what I had before.
The 'please support tiger' discussion is nice, but hopeless, let's face it. We ranted and ranted once they stopped supporting it (although it still worked). To no avail. They said it clearly back then: Tiger is no longer supported, if you don't upgrade to Leopard, future releases can very well be not working under Tiger anymore. And that's what seems to have happened now...
Don't get me wrong, it's good you remind them of loosing customers, etc. But we had all this discussion and despite all our efforts, they threw the Tiger users out back then. I fear nothing in the current discussion will change this, unfortunately.
And I like your idea of not supporting Windows XP anymore. Because it becomes very clear there, that they won't do it any time soon and the only reason is the nr. of customers on XP still. They are above a critical mass. We 'few' folks on Tiger weren't. 
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Charybdos
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Posted - 2009.12.04 17:10:00 -
[193]
I'm glad I'm not the only Tiger user sad about lack of support. I understand that this OS was not officially supported so you can't really blame CCP. I think what is frustrating is that I don't really have a choice but to cancel my account.
Unless...what do you guys honestly think the chances are that they'll tweak it to get Tiger running again? My skill training runs out in 3 days...I guess I'll wait till then to see how things are going.
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Pierre Louis
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Posted - 2009.12.04 17:13:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Charybdos
I'm glad I'm not the only Tiger user sad about lack of support. I understand that this OS was not officially supported so you can't really blame CCP. I think what is frustrating is that I don't really have a choice but to cancel my account.
Unless...what do you guys honestly think the chances are that they'll tweak it to get Tiger running again? My skill training runs out in 3 days...I guess I'll wait till then to see how things are going.
Same here Charybdos. I'm waiting till the fixed client comes out, but if it still won't work, then I'm out till the point in the future when I decide to buy a new mac.
Even then I'll think twice of returning to eve after knowing that they'll keep dropping support and eventually require me to upgrade again. 
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Ryel Theon
Epiphyte Mining and Exploration
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.12.04 17:15:00 -
[195]
FWIW my bug report on this issue has been flagged as Fixed in 1.0.2 so that sounds promising. Hopefully we'll get sound back soon.
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Sandar Orontur
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Posted - 2009.12.04 17:18:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Charybdos
Unless...what do you guys honestly think the chances are that they'll tweak it to get Tiger running again? My skill training runs out in 3 days...I guess I'll wait till then to see how things are going.
Let me put it that way: Even if the skill queue had no time limit and you had just put (preferred race) Titan I - Titan V in there, CCP wouldn't have Eve running again under Tiger before your skill training finishes.... 
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Sandar Orontur
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Posted - 2009.12.04 17:22:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Ryel Theon
FWIW my bug report on this issue has been flagged as Fixed in 1.0.2 so that sounds promising. Hopefully we'll get sound back soon.
Coming soon? (TM) 
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Juliette Leblanc
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.12.04 17:27:00 -
[198]
I hope they can fix the problems soon, but I doubt they'll manage it it 3 days. Three/four weeks for major problems in the windows client and a month or two for the mac client is what I think is most likely to be. And past winter expansions seem to support this speculation.
As for supporting Tiger, this is not going to happen. They do not even try running eve on tiger any more. If it works by pure luck, then good. But that's it. And I do not think this is something wrong with CCP given that Apple itself has (unofficially, but by all practical means) stopped supporting Tiger long ago.
Originally by: CCP Prism X
In New Eden, EVE wins you.
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Pierre Louis
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Posted - 2009.12.04 17:36:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Juliette Leblanc
I hope they can fix the problems soon, but I doubt they'll manage it it 3 days. Three/four weeks for major problems in the windows client and a month or two for the mac client is what I think is most likely to be. And past winter expansions seem to support this speculation.
As for supporting Tiger, this is not going to happen. They do not even try running eve on tiger any more. If it works by pure luck, then good. But that's it. And I do not think this is something wrong with CCP given that Apple itself has (unofficially, but by all practical means) stopped supporting Tiger long ago.
Well... The point is that Apple never told us we couldn't run the software we have on our computers anymore.
What bothers me is the "upgrade or leave" posture. It's literally a "Game Over. Insert coin to continue" sign hanging over our heads.
I guess XP users are safe till 2014 (support for XP SP2 ends next year, though).
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Juliette Leblanc
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.12.04 18:27:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Pierre Louis
Well... The point is that Apple never told us we couldn't run the software we have on our computers anymore.
What bothers me is the "upgrade or leave" posture. It's literally a "Game Over. Insert coin to continue" sign hanging over our heads.
Apple did not say you cannot run the software any more, but any problem you have past the "supported" time frame is your own problem. In a sense CCP did not say you cannot run the old client any more. Sure, the old client is now useless because the server is different, but that's the difference between "one time" and "subscription" models. Apple does it too: say you have an iPhone or an iPod or simply access to iTunes (the site) or to .mac (now me.com). The moment you need a newer iTunes (the application) or a newer browser and those newer softwares do not work on your older OS (or even hardware), you are in the very same situation.
The main difference is that those software life cycles are longer.
I fully expect Apple to start releasing those tools in a form that requires leopard AND an intel machine in 2010. Meaning not only you need to upgrade Tiger to Leopard but also to change your hardware, if it's a G5. In fact I would not be surprised if they were to discontinue Leopard itself (not officially, but practically) in 2010 or maybe early 2011.
Originally by: CCP Prism X
In New Eden, EVE wins you.
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c0olGuY77
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Posted - 2009.12.04 18:31:00 -
[201]
This crash also happened to me. I have a
10.6.1
2.5 ghz
4gb ram
NVIDIA 8600 gt
mac book pro
i was docking in station when this happened, although i had a destination set which might have affected the crash (autopilot?) Caps sometimes would get stuck on although a simple cmd tab would fix it. i trashed my preferences folder and it works now, but i dont want to loose all my fittings + configurations... I am going to keep my old preferences folder and once the patch is out i will replace the new one with my old one and hopefully keep all my stuff and be crash free :)
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Scythius Howe
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.12.04 18:42:00 -
[202]
Edited by: Scythius Howe on 04/12/2009 18:44:00
Originally by: Elesentra
To those saying "Deleting the Prefs and then re-doing my overview/window postions/hotleys etc. is a pain"
I say:
TIME MACHINE
TIME MACHINE
TIME MACHINE
(unless you're on Tiger)
Each time I crash now, Time Machine has me up and running in 1 minute with all my previous settings intact.
Slap my ass and call me Sally, I forgot about Time Machine. Danke.
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Theomythos
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.12.04 18:53:00 -
[203]
I'm a victim of this bug too. It happened right in middle of an L4 mission so it was a miracle I didn't lose my bs. And now I had to trash my settings and lost the fittings and all the stuff :(
Mac Pro 8-core 2.8ghz, 4gb ram, 8800gt, 10.6.2
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Scythius Howe
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.12.04 18:56:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Juliette Leblanc
Originally by: Pierre Louis
Well... The point is that Apple never told us we couldn't run the software we have on our computers anymore.
What bothers me is the "upgrade or leave" posture. It's literally a "Game Over. Insert coin to continue" sign hanging over our heads.
Apple did not say you cannot run the software any more, but any problem you have past the "supported" time frame is your own problem. In a sense CCP did not say you cannot run the old client any more. Sure, the old client is now useless because the server is different, but that's the difference between "one time" and "subscription" models. Apple does it too: say you have an iPhone or an iPod or simply access to iTunes (the site) or to .mac (now me.com). The moment you need a newer iTunes (the application) or a newer browser and those newer softwares do not work on your older OS (or even hardware), you are in the very same situation.
The main difference is that those software life cycles are longer.
I fully expect Apple to start releasing those tools in a form that requires leopard AND an intel machine in 2010. Meaning not only you need to upgrade Tiger to Leopard but also to change your hardware, if it's a G5. In fact I would not be surprised if they were to discontinue Leopard itself (not officially, but practically) in 2010 or maybe early 2011.
According to the Apple website, they're offering Snow Leopard upgrades to Tiger owners for $29.00 at discount. I may upgrade my Leopard just for kicks.
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Caldari Citizen 3456346
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Posted - 2009.12.04 19:18:00 -
[205]
Originally by: CCP Casqade
For those of you who have missed it. Please take a look at the updated workaround steps on the first page and disable sound.
One Question about it: Do i have to pay the full bills of my accounts when i only can use the half of the game? Maybe with the next patch we cant see anything but hear the world of eve. If i count all the time of waiting for better times, and i only playing EVE since 2 years, i sure i arwarded a free month for it. Maybe CCP is think about it - i dont belive - but i understood why CCP is on Island and not on a reachable continent :-))
Macuserers of the world, stand up for ur rights :-)) (!)
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Plaxnobravnitz
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Posted - 2009.12.04 19:24:00 -
[206]
I thought we paid money to be able to access this game at our leisure. That includes solving these mac "meta puzzles".
I know you are trying but please I just want the meat I don't want the potatoes.
Good effort- Plaxnobravnitz
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Velgonious
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Posted - 2009.12.04 20:17:00 -
[207]
I WANT MY MONEY BACK PLAIN AND SIMPLE!!!
If our gamer time runs out CCP wants us to pay it or we don't get access. but WE have to be "patient" while they fix the bugs? THEY SHOULD HAVE NEVER released Dominion until this al was fixed. Now that we have to delete our preferences (which if you are in a large corp you'll have a ton of bookmarks and preferences to redo) and play with no sound is not satisfactory to me as far as my money is concerned. I work hard for my money and spend it in EVE to play. not to look at cool graphics and play with my overview all day. This is such BS. CCP needs to do something to compensate the players for time lost!
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Sandar Orontur
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Posted - 2009.12.04 20:42:00 -
[208]
Edited by: Sandar Orontur on 04/12/2009 20:42:46
Originally by: Velgonious
I WANT MY MONEY BACK PLAIN AND SIMPLE!!!
I think you have a point, although I also think that this won't happen.
That being sad, I absolutely don't see why CCP rolls out an expansion like this when there are still such problems. Of course you will always find problems after a release which you didn't before, that's just natural. But this particular bug could well have shown before IF(!) proper testing was done.
I wrote a bug report for this bug a couple of hours after the dominion release. CCP's prompt(!) answer was that the bug is known and on their to-do list. How can it be that 4 days later, they still have no time scale for a solution? Or choose not to tell us, which is not very smart for other reasons...
I know that the Mac client poses a lot of additional problems as it doesn't run natively on the machines, but through cider. But that means you need to do some more testing AND push the guys more who provide it to you.
The issue really is that expansions/updates get released which seem to not have undergone thorough testing. In particular the Mac client has these additional problems EVERY expansion. Coming back to Velgonious' point: Either money back for a few days, or LEARN from your mistakes and do something to not have this happen on every single release of the Mac client. Otherwise, we as your Mac customers feel like second class citizens of Eve, whose money is taken equally quickly, but who get less in return for it.
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Velgonious
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Posted - 2009.12.04 21:15:00 -
[209]
Thanks Sand!
To add... Mac customers have friends. I don't want to leave EVE and have to get my money back but something should be done to compensate. If however things get worse... I will be forced to tell people NOT to play eve because all the will do is take your money. I did the math *Its not exact* but I averaged about 40,000 players a month who pay about $30 that's a grand total of 1.2mil US dollars A MONTH! I don't know how much it takes to run these servers or the staff but it appears to me that CCP is making quite a bit, and one persons leaving won't do it. It takes telling people. LOTS OF people.
I have been in customer service for 6 years. I know a thing about how it works, and right now given CCP's level of involvement and response time to our petitions we are not getting customer service. CCP I hope you are aware there are a lot of unhappy customers here. All we want are answers NOT, "Disabling sound might make the crashes appear less frequently." I also don't want to keep spending my hours playing (THAT I PAY FOR) spinning my ship around in space re-organizing my book marks and settings.
FOR THE LAST TIME PLEASE do something for us.
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Pierre Louis
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Posted - 2009.12.04 21:36:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Velgonious
Thanks Sand!
To add... Mac customers have friends. I don't want to leave EVE and have to get my money back but something should be done to compensate. If however things get worse... I will be forced to tell people NOT to play eve because all the will do is take your money. I did the math *Its not exact* but I averaged about 40,000 players a month who pay about $30 that's a grand total of 1.2mil US dollars A MONTH! I don't know how much it takes to run these servers or the staff but it appears to me that CCP is making quite a bit, and one persons leaving won't do it. It takes telling people. LOTS OF people.
I have been in customer service for 6 years. I know a thing about how it works, and right now given CCP's level of involvement and response time to our petitions we are not getting customer service. CCP I hope you are aware there are a lot of unhappy customers here. All we want are answers NOT, "Disabling sound might make the crashes appear less frequently." I also don't want to keep spending my hours playing (THAT I PAY FOR) spinning my ship around in space re-organizing my book marks and settings.
FOR THE LAST TIME PLEASE do something for us.
I think there is a thread up already about an upcoming patch for the Mac issue next week.
Sadly it seems all possibilities of running it on a GMA950 are dead once and for all. Guess I won't be seeing the new planets and moons.
Best of luck with the patch next week.
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