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Hot Fudge Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.02.10 06:24:00 - [31] You must have forgotten about the bonus training time for the first 1.6 million SPs. Many of the older players you are referring to never had that bonus. Most of us older players started out from barely any SPs. Newer players can do a whole lot more these days, and much faster, than when a lot of us started playing. The training bonus is relatively new. I made a new character, and he was in a t2 outfitted passive tanked Drake in no time at all. It would have taken much longer without the SP bonus. You have to realize though, if the new players did get what you are asking for, it wouldn't make much of a difference anyway. I mean, SPs doesn't really matter much if you don't have the experience to use them. The older players have the advantage not because of skill points, but because of experience. How are you gonna grant new players an experience bonus? Someone with a lot of experience with EVE can do more with less skill points than a newer player with more skill points. Like I said, it is all about a person's experience. The system is fine. Just be patient, and gain knowledge like the rest of us had to. Along the way, you will acquire what you want. ========================= Sweet, sticky, and bad for your health.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.02.10 06:27:00 - [32] Originally by: Chesterr theMolester If a bunch of noobs in noob ships are attacking my BS maybe ill get lucky and they will orbit be at 2500 and ill let off a smart bomb. How can you let off a smartbomb, Mr.Anderson, if your capacitor is dry from enemy neuts ? _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.10 06:29:00 - [33] Originally by: Chesterr theMolester no matter what we do (as a new player) we will never catch up in skill points So? What's the problem you believe this is causing? Quote: I should have the ability to catch up to a player who has been playing from 1-5 years You already do. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Chesterr theMolester	Posted - 2010.02.10 06:29:00 - [34] Edited by: Chesterr theMolester on 10/02/2010 06:29:41 Chances are noob players won't have neuts
Miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiau	Posted - 2010.02.10 06:29:00 - [35] Edited by: Miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiau on 10/02/2010 06:30:07 Its really a useless discussion. CCP has stated multiple times that they don't want Eve to become a Grinding game. You may want to be able to farm XP, but it will never happen. End of story. And to be clear, i love CCP for it. Grinding for ISK is bad enough imo.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.02.10 06:32:00 - [36] Edited by: Akita T on 10/02/2010 06:33:42 Originally by: Chesterr theMolester Chances are noob players won't have nuets If they're genuine newbies, they probably won't have neuts no matter what ship they fly. Chances are, if they're experienced EVE players on newbie pilot characters, they probably will. Maybe not the first time you encounter any of them, but several minutes later before you had a chance to log off, THEY WILL. Either way - why the bloody frak do you think some of the older players create PvP alts instead of fighting "with their main" ?!? Is it because somehow magically for them SPs increase much faster than for an actual newbie ? Or could it possibly be that having a low SP count actually has other advantages you are not even aware of while at the same time being able to reach an adequate performance in a short amount of time ? _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Chesterr theMolester	Posted - 2010.02.10 06:40:00 - [37] love how people call this a hard core player game when it isn't geared towards hard core players. It even states it on the back of the retail box..
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2010.02.10 06:40:00 - [38] Naturally, if you were fitting smartbombs on your battleship, you would probably also just manage to get concorded... There is a reason you dont see smartbombs on most subcaps, and its not because they suck up cap for no real dps.. OHGODS BELOW THIS LINE IS MY SIG !!!! SRSLY! Blane Xero > Lance is at -0.9 sec status with a 1 million bounty. Lance is also amarrian. Thats 3 evil points
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.02.10 06:42:00 - [39] Originally by: Chesterr theMolester love how people call this a hard core player game when it isn't geared towards hard core players. It even states it on the back of the retail box.. Do you even HAVE a point anymore or are you just grasping at straws ? _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Raydeus	Posted - 2010.02.10 06:45:00 - [40] Maybe it's because I've got (disturbingly) comfortable with life on EVE after lol2months+ of playing, but I'm gonna have to agree with people here saying that there really isn't that much difference between new players and old players (SP-wise). It's all mainly about knowledge of the game and player skill with maybe 10% being actual SP requirements. My advice is to stop complaining and read (A LOT) about the career paths so you can choose what you really want to do first and don't waste precious time and ISK on dead ends. Then you will find out you are at most a few months away from the highest tier for <insert activity here>. However the knowledge and skill to make the ISK required for that and to take the most efficient path to get there is what separates the n00b that just got slaughtered for trying to buy an item in low sec to save a few jumps from the guy who just added another notch to their n00b kill count. PS > I also think "buy a char with lots of SP" is the worst advice anyone can give to a newbie since they wont have any idea of what the hell to do with it... But then again if someone can make a dumb newbie buy a higher "level" alt they don't use anymore, then well.... that's just EVE.

Chesterr theMolester	Posted - 2010.02.10 06:45:00 - [41] Ya i am waiting on a full on good reason why my idea is a bad one other than people thinking its unfair for a new player to gain a edge on a so called vet player. Because they had to do things a certain way. Like i said If CCP was to stop allowing legal selling of isk and character this thread would not be going how it is.
Qarthy	Posted - 2010.02.10 06:45:00 - [42] More SP do not make a stronger pilot.Which skills you train do. So my 20 mil char can fly a lot of different ships, but the basic skills for them is all the same. What you are not seeing is the skills to fly a certain type of ship do not depend on the amount of SP you, just the skills you train.
victortwosix	Posted - 2010.02.10 06:49:00 - [43] To the OP: You try to trash talk people for "Wanting something for nothing"... But then you complain that you should get an unfair advantage because your new. That sounds a little oxymoronic to me. Focus your skills and fly what you have the most skill points for. Dont want them to run or dock up? Lure them away from a station and scram. I normally hate the peole who verbally abuse the OP's on C+P but this to me is stupid. You want everyone to be the same-go back to Halo and continue ruining that game-not this one. The skill point setup is just fine, with that being said my character is probably younger than yours, and Im posting with my main not an alt. So do us all a favor, HTFU
Chesterr theMolester	Posted - 2010.02.10 06:51:00 - [44] Also about specializations as a caldari pilot say im using a Drake I would need Hams for pvp and reg heavy for pve thats two dif specialization skills not to mention everyone i talk to is telling me As Caldari if i want to pvp im better off cross training to a dif race ship. so what choices do i have? I either forced to make due with what caldari has to offer or cross train hence hindering my specialization or making a new toon
Chesterr theMolester	Posted - 2010.02.10 06:56:00 - [45] Originally by: victortwosix To the OP: You try to trash talk people for "Wanting something for nothing"... But then you complain that you should get an unfair advantage because your new. That sounds a little oxymoronic to me. Focus your skills and fly what you have the most skill points for. Dont want them to run or dock up? Lure them away from a station and scram. I normally hate the peole who verbally abuse the OP's on C+P but this to me is stupid. You want everyone to be the same-go back to Halo and continue ruining that game-not this one. The skill point setup is just fine, with that being said my character is probably younger than yours, and Im posting with my main not an alt. So do us all a favor, HTFU Go back and read my entire post and try again
Gladys Pank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.02.10 07:00:00 - [46] Drakes are good for pvp. You are full of contradictions and are either a complete moron, or a complete moron trolling. Good day. ~ Soar Like a Penguin
Chesterr theMolester	Posted - 2010.02.10 07:03:00 - [47] Originally by: Gladys Pank Drakes are good for pvp. You are full of contradictions and are either a complete moron, or a complete moron trolling. Good day. They why does everyone i talk to say that armor tank beats shield tank and like every other Gun > missiles
Ak'athra J'ador Amarr Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.02.10 07:05:00 - [48] well you claim the importance of skillpoints... please see here if you are still not convinced after seeing two 2 day old characters take down battlecruisers then please see here
Raydeus	Posted - 2010.02.10 07:05:00 - [49] Fake edited by Raydeus: Never mind, why do I even bother. I think I just got trolled.
Ak'athra J'ador Amarr Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.02.10 07:11:00 - [50] Edited by: Ak''athra J''ador on 10/02/2010 07:12:54 Originally by: Chesterr theMolester Originally by: Gladys Pank Drakes are good for pvp. You are full of contradictions and are either a complete moron, or a complete moron trolling. Good day. They why does everyone i talk to say that armor tank beats shield tank and like every other Gun > missiles cause, surprise surprise people don't agree on everything. personally I believe it comes from the fact people are trying to find a perfect ship for every situation, which is exactly what eve is not. certain ships for certain situations. armour tanking is preferred in 0.0 fleet fights because of the remote rep doctrines. as proof a thread that was yesterday still on the first page of general discussion, called Drake is overpowered!! there is no perfect ship. sometimes armour tanking will be better and sometimes shield tanking will be better. depends on the situations. and as far as guns and missiles go. take a look at blasters. then again, take a look at rockets edit: srsly though CCP...could you fix rockets?

Chesterr theMolester	Posted - 2010.02.10 07:21:00 - [51] My point being if armor tanking is better in 00 then shield tanking and turrents are better then missiles and as caldari im mainly missiles and shields is it wise to specialize in one area without cross training as a caldari? I do not assume that everyone i have spoken to about this are telling me to cross train out of caldari for pvp are doing it just for the hell of it,
Mallikanth	Posted - 2010.02.10 07:32:00 - [52] Originally by: Chesterr theMolester But the fact of the matter is the game is so far along that it creates an imbalance to the game for new players vs. old players in terms of no matter what we do (as a new player) we will never catch up in skill points sure we will catch up in player skill in time but since equips are based on time lots and lots of time the older player will always have the ability to fit his ship better. Unlike other games, Eve has a few more points that are similar to real life and one of those is that there will always be people (characters) older (played longer) than you. It's part of the games attraction IMHO. No change necessary.
Chesterr theMolester	Posted - 2010.02.10 07:38:00 - [53] Originally by: Mallikanth Originally by: Chesterr theMolester But the fact of the matter is the game is so far along that it creates an imbalance to the game for new players vs. old players in terms of no matter what we do (as a new player) we will never catch up in skill points sure we will catch up in player skill in time but since equips are based on time lots and lots of time the older player will always have the ability to fit his ship better. Unlike other games, Eve has a few more points that are similar to real life and one of those is that there will always be people (characters) older (played longer) than you. It's part of the games attraction IMHO. No change necessary. Thank you for posting this since your attraction is based on real life you have made my point even better lets compare real life pilots. Take a 6 six pilot who flies 20 hours a week and a 4 year pilot who flies 50 hours a week. The six year pilot has 6240 hours of flight time where as the 4 year pilot has 10400 hours of flight time good chance the 4 year pilot is going to be the better pilot.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.02.10 07:53:00 - [54] Originally by: Chesterr theMolester The six year pilot has 6240 hours of flight time where as the 4 year pilot has 10400 hours of flight time good chance the 4 year pilot is going to be the better pilot. If only time spent online alone would make you a better pilot... if only... Guess what, it doesn't. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Chesterr theMolester	Posted - 2010.02.10 07:59:00 - [55] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Chesterr theMolester The six year pilot has 6240 hours of flight time where as the 4 year pilot has 10400 hours of flight time good chance the 4 year pilot is going to be the better pilot. If only time spent online alone would make you a better pilot... if only... Guess what, it doesn't. Why do people fail at reading comprehension? The guy said he likes eve because it has more real life aspects. So it turn i said that's fine how ever lets take a real life situation then. with the above examples given. The 4 year pilot with more hours of flying chances are he will be the better pilot.
Zartanic Red Federation	Posted - 2010.02.10 08:06:00 - [56] This tired old issue keeps coming up despite the numerous posts explaining how the Op is wrong in his core assumptions. MMORPG.com has the same post on a regular basis and I suspect other sites do too. Why do people join a game and expect it all from day one? Why do people keep thinking SP's = progression? There is a ton of evidence showing how there is NO NEED to 'catch up' at all and its just an assumption based on other games, not EVE. Why are people so bad at understanding simple game mechanics they have not come across before?
Chesterr theMolester	Posted - 2010.02.10 08:09:00 - [57] Originally by: Zartanic This tired old issue keeps coming up despite the numerous posts explaining how the Op is wrong in his core assumptions. MMORPG.com has the same post on a regular basis and I suspect other sites do too. Why do people join a game and expect it all from day one? Why do people keep thinking SP's = progression? There is a ton of evidence showing how there is NO NEED to 'catch up' at all and its just an assumption based on other games, not EVE. Why are people so bad at understanding simple game mechanics they have not come across before? Sigh I am going out on a limb and make the assumption you failed to read the entire post. Not one time in my post did I every say I wanted everything from day one. If i did please show me where. ... ..... ...... Ok now that you failed to find where i stated such a thing I only said it is fair to reward people who play the game more than people who play less. Thanks try again
Wesfahrn WESCORP 2.0	Posted - 2010.02.10 08:16:00 - [58] If you can think of no other way to catch up to other players than skill point wise, then eve is not for you
Zartanic Red Federation	Posted - 2010.02.10 08:19:00 - [59] Edited by: Zartanic on 10/02/2010 08:19:16 Originally by: Chesterr theMolester Originally by: Zartanic This tired old issue keeps coming up despite the numerous posts explaining how the Op is wrong in his core assumptions. MMORPG.com has the same post on a regular basis and I suspect other sites do too. Why do people join a game and expect it all from day one? Why do people keep thinking SP's = progression? There is a ton of evidence showing how there is NO NEED to 'catch up' at all and its just an assumption based on other games, not EVE. Why are people so bad at understanding simple game mechanics they have not come across before? Sigh I am going out on a limb and make the assumption you failed to read the entire post. Not one time in my post did I every say I wanted everything from day one. If i did please show me where. ... ..... ...... Ok now that you failed to find where i stated such a thing I only said it is fair to reward people who play the game more than people who play less. Thanks try again I read your post in full, I always do and its the same old. You are making wrong assumptions which have been clearly explained in a lot of posts. The skill system in EVE is very simple and it's meant to be. This game is all about personal knowledge, attitude and practise. That's the value of your character. That's why a player trying to buy into the game will fail. That's why a day old alt can cause havoc to characters with high SP. Skills are secondary to that and do NOT define you at all. Why should skills be activity based when that bears no relationship to what's important in a players actual ability? The whole point of EVE is there is no need for mindless grinding and you are not put into a certain play style the day you make your character or by what you do in the game. That's how other games work which is why players are forced to make endless alts and it's tedious. I want a game that rewards me for my personal skill, not some number made up because I mined x ore or killed y ships.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.02.10 08:26:00 - [60] In the above example it's just as in RL, just replace "online" with "at the helm/stick/rudder/whatever". Logging 10k hours of flight won't automatically make an airplane pilot better than one that logged 6k hours. Truth be told, in EVE, like in RL, at about 1k hours you're more than likely to have pretty much hit your peak already, and the only real difference would be in the inherent talent differences between those two. Now, let's recap: 1. You complain new players have no chance because they have less SP. Your argument was refuted on the basis that SP alone doesn't really matter anymore past a certain point even in 1-vs-1 situations, that this game is not a 1-vs-1 game, and that you can buy an older pilot with ISK if you really really want those extra SP. Also mentioned was the fact that many older players PREFER to create a brand new character for combat instead of fighting with their high-SP one, which directly goes as very solid proof against the idea that new players are at a distinct disadvantage. Not just that, but the "early stages" of character SP generation were constantly improved in favor of new players. Back when _I_ started, +3 implants were already prohibitively expensive and you had to train L5 in the basic learnings to gain access to the advanced ones, starting with negligible SP and no double-speed-until-1.6mil bonus. 2. You then complain people should be able to earn more SP by being online more. That argument was refuted because it would cause far more CERTAIN damage than any POTENTIAL benefits, with in-depth explanation as to exactly why that would result in horrific consequences. In case you didn't know, that's how EVE-Beta was, you did stuff and you earned XP for doing it. That proved quite urgently to be a big mistake, and thankfully CCP were kind enough to correct it in time. Still, within certain limits, your online time CAN influence your SP gain rate. It's called "making ISK so you can buy implants". It has a certain low cutoff for extra SP generation but at high cost, and if you take care NOT to lose them, they can be as good as permanent. 3. You complain that CCP should crack down harder on macro users. How difficult it is to understand that simply WISHING for CCP to magically have a certain way of determining if somebody is using a macro or not is not THAT easy ? There are plenty of AFK-ish players or multi-boxers that seem like macroers to the outside observer. Some MIGHT be multi-boxing macroers with a human supervisor. But then again, how do you tell with 100% certainty which of those cases is the real one ? In the most obvious cases, when CCP has time to investigate them, they are, and if it is concluded they must indeed be macro users without a doubt, a ban is coming, sooner or later. The THOUSANDS of banned accounts in the recent past should be ample proof of the fact CCP doesn't just sit there. 4. You shine that you need ISK to do stuff, but then you show that you don't really know much about how to make ISK in the first place anyway. When it is suggested that you should probably just buy ISK via PLEX/GTC and maybe even buy a character with some of that ISK so you no longer feel "left out", you lash out at people. Now, answer me this - if you buy a 4-year old character after paying the ISK equivalent of less than 48 PLEX + skills/implants costs + transfer fee, who is actually getting the better deal, you, the buyer, or is it the seller ?!? And yeah, they really do go that cheap nowadays. Not only did the original owner actually SPENT those 4 years training it up, but he also PAID for the 4 years of gameplay in the first place too. So basically, you might actually pay less than he did AND not even have to wait 4 years either. So who exactly is the entitlement jerk here ? _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _



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