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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |

Chesterr theMolester
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Posted - 2010.02.10 05:15:00 -
[1]
So I will start by saying I am new player about a month old and the game is pretty good. The only flaw is this skill system that's in place don't bother saying "it's worked this long just fine" or "if you don't like it go play something else" I've seen that on every post about this subject that I can find.
But the fact of the matter is the game is so far along that it creates an imbalance to the game for new players vs. old players in terms of no matter what we do (as a new player) we will never catch up in skill points sure we will catch up in player skill in time but since equips are based on time lots and lots of time the older player will always have the ability to fit his ship better. Now I do not mind putting time into games I've played MomÆs since 1998 And have put in no less than 5 years to each game that I've really gotten into. Everything from care bear games like WOW to UO staying on the pvp side of the world for 9 years and being in lineage 2 and eq 1 on pvp servers and many others.
Now whatÆs unfair about it is to players like my self that have the play time to put in I should have the ability to catch up to a player who has been playing from 1-5 years and only log in maybe 10 hours a week and yes I've also heard "well if you play more you get more isk" and "you'll have more time to gain your actual player skill" that's all fine and dandy and things I should be able to get as someone who logs more hours then anyone (so far) that I know in game. But as a player who logs this many hours I should be able to gain some ground on the vet player in skill points, and I'm not looking to do it in a month or six months or even a year but if I play this game for say 2 years and log 40+ hours a week I do not think its unreasonable to be caught up in skill points to a 4 year player who has logged 15 hours a week since he started. That would mean that I have logged 4160 hours of game time to his 3120 that is over a thousand hours more of play time so yes I think it would be perfectly fair for that to happen.
Now I expect the "It's not our fault we don't have that much time to play why should you be rewarded for playing more" follow by a list of 12 year old insults of "you got no life" or "you live in you're moms basement" And to that I say It's not my fault first that we (the new players) didn't start the game 5 years ago and two you don't have the financial stability and have to work a full time job there for you don't have as much time to play. And if you do not have the time to put into a MMO don't play one.
Now my subject line is new vs. old players the reason I said this is one of two things are going to happen one they keep the current system in place and will in turn lose a lot of the new hard core players (some will stay) or two they revamp it in some way to allow players like my self to at least catch up a little to vet players in SP so I can use the better ships and tech 2 equips and in turn will have a few of the vet players rage quit the game and again some will stay.
Now I am not saying the game won't stay stable for awhile the way it is but it would grow a lot faster IMO and have more fresh players if they implemented something into game that would give us a SP bonus. I am not looking for them to stop the SP gains while off line that's pretty cool but implement a bonus to active players and I mean really active not people just floating in high sec space or docked in station but I am sure they could implement something that would both be effective and prevent people from just logging in and sitting around. I have also seen a lot of people talking about people making Macros to stay active and again this is something that can be prevented crack down and perma ban macro users 100% of the time and I will be willing to bet you will not see them doing it very much.
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Zitus
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Posted - 2010.02.10 05:16:00 -
[2]
Welcome to Eve. Put on your fire suit and prep for flames
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Thuranni
Eldjotnar
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Posted - 2010.02.10 05:18:00 -
[3]
Not this **** again.
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Gladys Pank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2010.02.10 05:20:00 -
[4]
Suspiciously trolly name but whatever...
Make lots of isk
Buy a higher sp character
Fail at eve anyway because the important thing is skill, knowledge and connections not skill points
~ Soar Like a Penguin |

jodine
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Posted - 2010.02.10 05:22:00 -
[5]
RL money---> pilot licence----->char bazzar------>????------->win
alternetly
Hours of grinding for isk-------> char bazzar------->??????------>win
game is fine the way it is
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Chesterr theMolester
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Posted - 2010.02.10 05:26:00 -
[6]
Sigh i didn't see this coming Buy a character LOL. It only further proves that most of eve players want something for nothing. And its is posted on a alt to avoid fail grievers from war decing my corp.
The fact that it's legal to buy isk via plex and buy characters via isk further prove this.
Buying character is fail
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.10 05:27:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Akita T on 10/02/2010 05:31:27
Originally by: Chesterr theMolester we will never catch up in skill points sure we will catch up in player skill in time but since equips are based on time lots and lots of time the older player will always have the ability to fit his ship better.
Pick a ship. Or an activity. Any ship, any activity. Now list all skills that can possibly have an influence on the effectiveness of what you chose to perform. Total up all the skillpoints needed to get all those skills to L5. You will notice it's a finite number, and not really such a huge number. Now, recalculate the same thing, but this time, only put all related skills to L4, with L5s only where they are prerequisites or absolutely necessary for the proper performance of your chosen activity. Not only will you notice that the SP total has drastically gone down, but that your actual performance isn't THAT much lower (since most of the higher-rank skills have the least overall effect). And now, ask some (much) older players if THEY have their skills trained above those levels. You'll be surprised to hear just how few actually do.
SP total doesn't necessarily make you MUCH BETTER. It does however almost always make you MORE VERSATILE.
Long story short, if you specialize, in your chosen field, you can become an expert in a relatively short amount of time, and above average surprisingly fast. In a game where 10 experienced pilots flying a 1-month-old characters can beat 20 disorganized rookie pilots with purchased high-SP characters, or where 10 well-organized newbies led by one experienced pilot can easily obliterate 5 experienced pilots on much higher SP characters that didn't bail out in time... SP count doesn't matter anywhere near as much as you seem to think it does.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Akira Kurosaw
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Posted - 2010.02.10 05:27:00 -
[8]
If we assume we both are going to be flying the same ship+fit, which you have speciallies towards so you have L5 skills for that specifik ship, does it then matter that i can fly more and bigger stuff? are your level 5 skills some how worth less?
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jodine
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Posted - 2010.02.10 05:28:00 -
[9]
Edited by: jodine on 10/02/2010 05:28:26
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Chesterr theMolester
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Posted - 2010.02.10 05:32:00 -
[10]
No my level 5 skills are not worthless how ever say we are both flying frigates tech two tech two fits and its a stale mate and you dock up. Now you come out and undock in a domi tech tech 2 drones now my frigate is not gonna win.
Now lets say i do the same it becomes a stale mate you dock up undock in an other ship suited to take out the domi with drones ect ect in the end the more versatile play will have the upper hand is all i'm saying.
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Mr M
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.02.10 05:32:00 -
[11]
In short, my 15,524,275 skill points in Science wont help me in a fight.
Eve Tribune|EVEgeek|Firebrand Radio |

Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.10 05:35:00 -
[12]
This is not a 1-vs-1 game, it's primarily a many-vs-loads game. Numbers, competent chain of command, ability of group to follow orders but also think critically in the absence of direct orders, THAT is what makes the difference between victory or defeat. NOT the SP total on any side.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Sjoor
S.A.S Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2010.02.10 05:35:00 -
[13]
I agree with the op. Every 100 npc kills you should get 1 million SP to freely distribute at your own. Every 1000 kills a free hac of choice. every 10000 kills a free capital ship of choice. every 100000 kills a titan of choice for free.
That redeem items button is not there for nothing. CCP use it already. |

arjun1
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Posted - 2010.02.10 05:41:00 -
[14]
my combat char can fly all frigs and use all t2 frig equipment but i can fly only one ship at a time.
when i started there were no advanced learning skills, no skillbonus for new chars. +5 imps did cost billions
system is fine as it is.
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Chesterr theMolester
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Posted - 2010.02.10 05:43:00 -
[15]
sjoor This is not what im looking for but say after 100 kills npc or pvp i get a 10-15% bonus for x amount of time or x amount of ore mined or refined i get x amount of sp bonus for x amount of time. ect ect just give the active player a little bonus to sp gains.
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Sjoor
S.A.S Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2010.02.10 05:46:00 -
[16]
Originally by: arjun1 my combat char can fly all frigs and use all t2 frig equipment but i can fly only one ship at a time.
when i started there were no advanced learning skills, no skillbonus for new chars. +5 imps did cost billions
system is fine as it is.
That's a good point. Should get advanced learning skills out of game. Remove attribute implants. Remove the start SP from startup, disable the nobbie bonus on SP gain. Let's force everyone to do missions to gain SP. You want science SP, do science missions. Wanna fly a hauler, transport missions it is, etc etc.
This would greatly improove the your gaming experience
Originally by: CCC Mitnal Locked.
Please use more content in opening posts.
In our experience using one or two liners inevitably leads to a decline in the standard of posting within the thread.
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Slade Hoo
Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2010.02.10 05:47:00 -
[17]
no ------ I'm just a lonely pirate on my way to ascension |

Gladys Pank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2010.02.10 05:47:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Chesterr theMolester Sigh i didn't see this coming Buy a character LOL. It only further proves that most of eve players want something for nothing. And its is posted on a alt to avoid fail grievers from war decing my corp.
The fact that it's legal to buy isk via plex and buy characters via isk further prove this.
Buying character is fail
My point was this WASN'T a solution.
Specialise in a roll, level v skills help but you can spend say 11 days training 1 skill to level v, or invest it in many other support skills to IV and improve your 'skills' far more. Your attitude suggests you don't really have what it takes to do well in eve... spend some more time playing and you might understand better. ~ Soar Like a Penguin |

Ak'athra J'ador
Amarr Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.02.10 05:49:00 -
[19]
lets try to put this in wow terms.
lets say you can lvl all of the classes on the same character. you don't need to make alts, you can train all of the classes on the same character, but you can only play one at a time. so a new player might come and play for two months and reach the end lvl and (gear exluded) be all he can be in that class. now an older player might have all of the classes trained by now, since he has been playing for a year, but both of them can only play one class at a time, and when they meet, in pvp, even though the older player can also play all the other classes, that is of no use to him now, they are both in their selected class fighting it out, completely fair.
its the same in eve. a young player can be specialised in frigates. and when he meets and older player who can also fly a carrier of three different races, the only difference is that if poded one of them will dish out 20 mil for the new pod. once you have the support skills trained and specialize in one area you are the best you can be in that area (skill wise). and if you meet someone who is also specialised on other areas it does not matter. carrier or battleship skills have no impact on frigate skills.
so the only difference is that an older player can pick between many ships, while a younger one might only have a few specializations. just like in the wow comparison. but that is the key word, and the best advice you can get, specialize!
think of the skill system not as very long, but very wide, with a certain branch only going so far.
did you try rvb? lots of low skill pilots there, now that fac war kinda evolved 
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.10 05:50:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Chesterr theMolester sjoor This is not what im looking for but say after 100 kills npc or pvp i get a 10-15% bonus for x amount of time or x amount of ore mined or refined i get x amount of sp bonus for x amount of time. ect ect just give the active player a little bonus to sp gains.
So if I leave my Myrmidon in a COSMOS complex with drones out right after downtime, then come back shortly before downtime starts again the next day, I should have not only extra ISK but also a lot of SP to distribute ? Oh, or maybe, just maybe, finally get the incentive to code my own macro for mining that would be basically indistinguishable from an extremely bored person (I'll even throw in a "sorry no speak english good" reply routine to convos or such, or heck, a rudimentary "cleverbot" type nonsensical conversation module) actually mining at far from peak efficiency and leave it running 16 hours a day ? How about, even better, get two of my alts in opposing corps that have wardecced eachother, fly only amarr/gallente laser/drone ships and keep'em outside shooting at eachother to gain extra "combat SP" ? Nice idea, genius !
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Sjoor
S.A.S Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2010.02.10 05:57:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Chesterr theMolester sjoor This is not what im looking for but say after 100 kills npc or pvp i get a 10-15% bonus for x amount of time or x amount of ore mined or refined i get x amount of sp bonus for x amount of time. ect ect just give the active player a little bonus to sp gains.
Tbh you fail at EVE, go back to whatever dungeon you left. If you don't understand that all you need is an mwd, scram and web to assist in this multiplayer game you should concider to focus your attention on some irl advanced classes.
Originally by: CCC Mitnal Locked.
Please use more content in opening posts.
In our experience using one or two liners inevitably leads to a decline in the standard of posting within the thread.
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Chesterr theMolester
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Posted - 2010.02.10 06:03:00 -
[22]
If you had taken time to read my post i also said crack down on macro players. Trust me they know when your running a macro and when you not. And i fully understand about specialization how ever A mining boat is different from a pve boat and a pvp boat is different from a mining or pve boat so say i want to pvp i can't pvp without isk there for i need a mission running boat or mining boat to make isk in order to pvp so its not really easy for a single account owner to do such a thing.
I would love CCP to stop plex selling for isk and character buy for isk and see how many people change there minds about this subject.
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Gladys Pank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2010.02.10 06:07:00 -
[23]
You can use the same skills to run missions as you use for pvp; mining is not a cost effective way of making isk in game and unless you are working in 0.0 for a corp or alliances industry effort it is pointless. You can make it with one character but not with your defeatist attitude.
Enjoy your probably short lived time in eve. ~ Soar Like a Penguin |

Epegi Givo
Amarr Araja clan
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Posted - 2010.02.10 06:08:00 -
[24]
I was in a BS the other guy was in a BS. He was twice me Age. He was in a hyperion, and had a good active tank that my guns would not break.
But I brought a cap neutralizer. So I was able to undo someone twice my age in a 1v1 BS fight.
Me and a friend were in HACs. The enemies had 2 drakes, a HAC, and a hurricane. I am early 08 and my friend was mid 07. All the enemies we 05. We very quickly popped the enemy HAC and he jammed the cane with drones. 1 drake and the cane got away. Both of us were still alive.
Anyone who says that age is a huge factor is full of ****. __________________________
My other alt is A Ferrari |

Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.10 06:10:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Akita T on 10/02/2010 06:15:33
Originally by: Chesterr theMolester If you had taken time to read my post i also said crack down on macro players.
Extremely difficult to be 100% sure. Because 99% sure will not do.
edit : read the latest edit in the previous post too
Quote: Trust me they know when your running a macro and when you not.
They can't afford to KNOW on a massive scale. They barely afford to "know" for the few currently reported suspected macro users. What you're proposing would increase the potential macro abuser numbers by at least one order of magnitude, with 3 possible outcomes: * increasing GM costs exponentially for CCP * banning legitimate players by accident * letting most macro users untouched
Quote: And i fully understand about specialization how ever A mining boat is different from a pve boat and a pvp boat is different from a mining or pve boat so say i want to pvp i can't pvp without isk there for i need a mission running boat or mining boat to make isk in order to pvp so its not really easy for a single account owner to do such a thing.
No, a PvP boat is NOT all that different in needed skills and gear from a PvE boat. I'd go so far to say that other than switching around a couple of modules, a PvE boat _can_be_ a PvP boat and vice-versa. Also, the pinacle of mining, the Hulk ? It takes, like, what, 2 months to train for ? And then you're pretty much done, almost on par with any other miner in EVE.
Quote: I would love CCP to stop plex selling for isk and character buy for isk and see how many people change there minds about this subject.
It would have the exact opposite effect of what you seem to think it would have.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Sjoor
S.A.S Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2010.02.10 06:14:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Chesterr theMolester If you had taken time to read my post i also said crack down on macro players. Trust me they know when your running a macro and when you not. And i fully understand about specialization how ever A mining boat is different from a pve boat and a pvp boat is different from a mining or pve boat so say i want to pvp i can't pvp without isk there for i need a mission running boat or mining boat to make isk in order to pvp so its not really easy for a single account owner to do such a thing.
I would love CCP to stop plex selling for isk and character buy for isk and see how many people change there minds about this subject.
mass account ban
CCP does nothing your right.
Originally by: CCC Mitnal Locked.
Please use more content in opening posts.
In our experience using one or two liners inevitably leads to a decline in the standard of posting within the thread.
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Clair Bear
Ursine Research and Production
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Posted - 2010.02.10 06:18:00 -
[27]
You are also missing one fundamental thing:
Eve is a blobbing game. 10 newbies in frigates > 1 vet in a battleship.
/thread And in summary, bigger blobs are the answer. Now what was the question? |

Chesterr theMolester
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Posted - 2010.02.10 06:23:00 -
[28]
If a bunch of noobs in noob ships are attacking my BS maybe ill get lucky and they will orbit be at 2500 and ill let off a smart bomb.
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Jerid Verges
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Posted - 2010.02.10 06:24:00 -
[29]
This game is not WoW, Guild Wars, Runescape, or any of those.
Unlike those games, in this game, Skillpoints do not make the difference in a fight. They help, they do tip things in the higher SP account's favor. But they won't win it for anyone.
The only thing a high SP account has on a low SP account is the fact it has access to better equipment and ships. A low SP account can easily catch up to a high SP account if it specializes.
Either way you look at it. There really is no system that can replace the current one anyways.
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Gladys Pank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2010.02.10 06:24:00 -
[30]
Maybe I'll find a supercap abandoned in space. ~ Soar Like a Penguin |
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