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Incarna/WiS Disappointment

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Pix Severus School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 5	Posted - 2012.06.27 22:11:00 - [1] - Quote Is anyone else as disappointed as I am about how the whole Incarna/WalkinginStations thing turned out? I left the game for a while after Tyrannis was released and came back to Eve recently (a couple of weeks ago). I was looking forward to going for a stroll in a station or two, spamming /dance, playing some games, hitting up the bar staff, etc. Instead I find I'm stuck in a small room, forever alone. A new player to the game would question: "Why such an involved 3D character creation process when there's nothing in-game to actually DO with said creation?" This was an issue before Incarna with the old character creation process too, going through it all just to snap a portrait.. Well, what we have now is just a 3D, movable portrait. Anyway, I did some digging to find out why it ended up this way, and it turned out that a bunch of players had a hissy-fit when Incarna was released, which forced CCP to take a different direction, thus leaving the whole thing as an unfinished mess. How unfortunate. Maybe now that the whole thing has calmed down somewhat, it is time to finish it? Get WiS rolled out fully, the code is probably there, waiting, I don't know if you figured out how to handle choke-points like certain Jita stations, but I (and I'm sure many others) would love the extra functionality for our 3D characters, especially those who spend all day playing the market. Reasons why you should finish what you started ASAP: - It could bring more new players to the game - It could bring some older players back - Having 3D characters that can interact with each other in stations could spawn a whole new wave of Eve machinima videos like Clear Skies, which is free advertising - More fun and depth to the game for roleplayers - People would have more reason to buy all those clothes you've been releasing - People like me who have a 3D/uncanny-valley fetish will get to molest NPCs and other players What some of you are going to say: "Eve is a game about spaceships, keep it about spaceships and only spaceships." - Having a 3D avatar is just natural progression, after all you play a capsuleer in this game, not a lump of space metal. Even the X series of games (which I'm sure most of you are familiar with) is taking this direction. "There are more important things to fix first, like inventory, and the fact that other people can play this game differently to me." - Sure, there are a lot of things which also need fixing in this game, but for new players this would be the most noticable fix, and for CCP it could be potentially the most profitable. "You just want to jerk it in stations." - True, at the moment I have to right click on the pilot in the chat window, show info, view portrait, view full body, and even then they might be flat-chested or something which turns me off. I'm currently sat in Jita right-clicking your portraits and "enjoying myself", and there's nothing you can do about it.
Citizen Smif Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 107	Posted - 2012.06.27 22:18:00 - [2] - Quote 1st post reserved for obligatory shitpost response edit Actually the bash-the-UI party is totes the rave atm, gwanna go argue with them instead.
Roll Sizzle Beef Space Mutiny 574	Posted - 2012.06.27 22:21:00 - [3] - Quote Pix Severus wrote: a bunch of players had a hissy-fit End of current and future debate. If they try and do anything innovative beyond internet spaceships, the game dies.
Pipa Porto School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 31	Posted - 2012.06.27 22:22:00 - [4] - Quote We're here for spaceships. CCP was on a path that had an 18month gap in spaceship iteration. That's bad, mmmkay. If you want to dance, the command works really well in WoW. -RubyPorto IB4TS
Surfin's PlunderBunny Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 1595	Posted - 2012.06.27 22:23:00 - [5] - Quote Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: Pix Severus wrote: a bunch of players had a hissy-fit End of current and future debate. If they try and do anything innovative beyond internet spaceships, the game dies. There was no innovation... that was half the problem Also involuntary alpha testing guinea pigs
Vaju Enki Secular Wisdom 186	Posted - 2012.06.27 22:23:00 - [6] - Quote I think if safe to assume the vaste majority of EvE Online players want CCP resources on FiS. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it.
Pix Severus School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 6	Posted - 2012.06.27 22:30:00 - [7] - Quote Vaju Enki wrote: I think if safe to assume the vaste majority of EvE Online players want CCP resources on FiS. The vast majority of vocal players, sure. Most Eve players probably never post on the forums.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 310	Posted - 2012.06.27 22:36:00 - [8] - Quote By a 'bunch of players' you mean tens of thousands of accounts which caused the first ever slump in subs in EVEs existence that lost CCP millions of dollars and a significant decrease in CCP staff which is why we now have to wait over a week for a GM response. Sorry but the players have spoken: WIS is cool, but not at the expense of the rest of EVE. I dunno where the OP is getting his information, but it is a fact that WIS lost CCP millions of dollars while expansions focused on improving the base game and the war themed expansion gained CCP those millions back.
KrakizBad Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension 754	Posted - 2012.06.27 22:44:00 - [9] - Quote Vaal Erit wrote: By a 'bunch of players' you mean tens of thousands of accounts which caused the first ever slump in subs in EVEs existence that lost CCP millions of dollars and a significant decrease in CCP staff which is why we now have to wait over a week for a GM response. Sorry but the players have spoken: WIS is cool, but not at the expense of the rest of EVE. I dunno where the OP is getting his information, but it is a fact that WIS lost CCP millions of dollars while expansions focused on improving the base game and the war themed expansion gained CCP those millions back. This. Suck it up, buttercup. WiS is in the shitter where it belongs. Incursions still need to be nerfed more. Cut payouts by 50% for all ships worth more than 10m.
Jonah Gravenstein 540	Posted - 2012.06.27 22:50:00 - [10] - Quote Walking in stations still holds great promise, I hope that it gets finished one day. After 3+ years of promises and good looking presentations it rolled out with a dingy $10 hotel room and a RL priced clothing store. Combined with the "Greed is Good" leak, a refusal from CCP to answer any questions regarding the future of the NEX store with respect to "golden ammo", and some badly thought out devblogs it turned into a steamroller of anger. In protest against what many saw as the death knell for Eve (yes Eve was dying, again) players gathered in Jita and Amarr and proceeded to pour DPS into the statues there, Jita population was capped, Amarr was slow as molasses and a spectacular lightshow was produced and shown to the world on youtube, faecesbook and in the gaming press. It wasn't just the hisec carebears, there were congas in Jita consisting of people from all over Eve, alliances that have been at war for years were ignoring war targets in favour of something much more important than pewpew. TL;DR if CCP had released it in a better state than they did, with micro-transactions instead of Gucci prices in the NEX, and had laid to rest the players concerns immediately then it would have been seen as the future and not the end. FiS > WiS but WiS would be nice eventually, especially if we can stab other peoples characters in the face, in stations, over a game of cards or a hooker. War hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside.
Cindy Marco Expanse Security 78	Posted - 2012.06.27 22:53:00 - [11] - Quote Its hard to understand what happened because you weren't here, but there were a ton of issues with Incarna. It was 7 months after Incursion, and they only had one captains quarters done. After allegedly already working on it for some time. It took a full year for all the captains quarters to be added. If 4 small rooms take a year, how long would 4 racial stations take? They tried to force expensive micro transactions on us, after players told them they didn't want micro transactions in a pay game. And finally, there were a couple internal leaks. One was a internal paper discussing all kinds of things they could charge extra real money for; ships, ammo etc. And the second was a leaked email from Hilmar (CCP CEO) saying he didn't care what his customers thought.
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief 763	Posted - 2012.06.27 22:55:00 - [12] - Quote I remember most of the rage was over three things: The leaked "greed is good" article form the internal CCP newsletter, implying that, via the Nex store, Eve would become Pay To Win. The leaked e-mail from the CCP CEO telling everyone at CCP that the Incarna was a wonderful expansion, and the small amount of protest form the players was expected and meaningless. That Incarna contained far less content than expected, despite the months of effort put into it, along with the small amount of work concurrently done to the spaceship side. What I think we need now is balanced development of both in space and in station content. The resource division should be along the lines of player preference. If players would spend 10% of their time (averaged over all players) doing WiS stuff, then 10% of new feature development effort should be devoted to WiS. An odd way to do this is allow every player to vote with their subscription money. Say $1 of each months subscription goes to new feature development (the rest is bug fixing, feature iteration, server maintenance, rent on the building, paying the cleaning crew, and so on). Each player can decide how their $1 is allocated, and that is what CCP spends it on. That way if you do not like WiS, you can be sure none of your subscription money is spent on it. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/
Jimmy Gunsmythe Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 48	Posted - 2012.06.27 22:57:00 - [13] - Quote Totally happy with how the Incarna debacle turned out. I never wanted WiS, I still don't. If I change my mind, I'll go play Star Trek Online. A good predator knows how to live in balance with his prey, lest he follow them into oblivion.
Gaellia Bonaventure Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 75	Posted - 2012.06.27 22:58:00 - [14] - Quote I for one would like to see WiS fully implemented along with the expanded gameplay options which could result from this. But the way it was rolled out, along with the limited access we now have, pretty much guarantees that's all we will ever see. Bring your possibles.
Pix Severus School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 7	Posted - 2012.06.27 23:05:00 - [15] - Quote Ok, my source didn't go into this much detail about it, I should've gone deeper though. It seems it was a complete clustertruck of events that CCP handled very poorly, and it wasn't just a few players having their "time of the month", so I retract that. I would still like it to be finished sooner rather than later though, but I think CCP are probably playing this out very carefully, to avoid any similar backlash in the future.
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 554	Posted - 2012.06.27 23:09:00 - [16] - Quote WiS has gone back to the drawing board with a smaller team so they can actually figure out what they should have figured out 6 years ago at the start of the project: how to introduce meaningful, interesting gameplay to the whole mess, rather than throwing some pretty but content-free graphics in our faces as a means to sell monocles and jackets for real-world currencies. Pix Severus wrote: I was looking forward to going for a stroll in a station or two, spamming /dance, playing some games, hitting up the bar staff, etc. Instead I find I'm stuck in a small room, forever alone. Serious question: why are you not doing these things in Second Life or some other such 'social gameplay' environment? Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge **.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006 ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever.
Pipa Porto School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 32	Posted - 2012.06.27 23:10:00 - [17] - Quote Pix Severus wrote: Ok, my source didn't go into this much detail about it, I should've gone deeper though. It seems it was a complete clustertruck of events that CCP handled very poorly, and it wasn't just a few players having their "time of the month", so I retract that. I would still like it to be finished sooner rather than later though, but I think CCP are probably playing this out very carefully, to avoid any similar backlash in the future. You did see all the incarna items released without incident this patch, right? -RubyPorto IB4TS
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief 763	Posted - 2012.06.27 23:12:00 - [18] - Quote Supposedly there is a "Team Avatar" (5 people) working on something, and a Dev blog about it that is finished, but its publishing got delayed by the UI mess. The few Dev comments we have gotten is it will involve cooperative game play in a hostile environment. Something like we saw in one of the trailers with people in space suits exploring ruins. I presume part of the "cooperative" part is having protection so your ship does not get stolen while you are walking about. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/
Ziranda Hakuli Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens 111	Posted - 2012.06.27 23:15:00 - [19] - Quote A bunch of folks had a temper tantrum. that alliance main was GOON and their pets. A few here an there. Then the NEX store along with several emails leaked from CCP staff and or CEO, protesting in Jita and the masses were placated by the GODs of New Eden as I giggled fully expecting what happened to appease the children. Many Eve players burned up their computers with the new tweaking to the graphics. Combination of who knows what happened but when you overclock for no reason you deserve a computer sitting there as the blue smoke escapes and from what i heard it was mostly those with Nvidia cards. No idea what was done to resolve this. personally i do not care. But for WiS, CCP could make more money if they already had Deployed it already but instead they made empty promises in FanFest concerning it or was it a 10 sec blurp on it that can ran over with the FW new tweaks. The steps CCP should have taken 1> Keep its big mouth shut 2> play with it on their servers fixing issues 3> prepare NEX store ONLY with fashion items 4> Remember STEP 1! 5> Make sure DEVs have diffrent computers built out of their own pockets or something. 6> have ALL the DEVs play with new toy on THEIR server for a few weeks (Vacation time and drunk DEVs. WOOHOO!!!) 7> Compare notes go over issues 8> Remember STEP 1! and WHATEVER YOU DO...DO NOT TELL CSM ABOUT THIS. 9> Rework what needs to be fixed 10> Repeat steps 6 through 9 as needed then move on. 11> Drop the new toy into the public Test Server and now you can drop the bomb on the CSM. I wonder how difficult it is to get a job there
Pix Severus School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 7	Posted - 2012.06.27 23:18:00 - [20] - Quote Scatim Helicon wrote: Serious question: why are you not doing these things in Second Life or some other such 'social gameplay' environment? Because I want to play with spaceships too. Why can't I do both? I have friends in this game, I don't have friends who play WoW or Second Life.
Moonasha Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 90	Posted - 2012.06.27 23:22:00 - [21] - Quote They'll probably revisit it after all the space sheeps are rebalanced
Pipa Porto School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 33	Posted - 2012.06.27 23:29:00 - [22] - Quote Pix Severus wrote: Scatim Helicon wrote: Serious question: why are you not doing these things in Second Life or some other such 'social gameplay' environment? Because I want to play with spaceships too. Why can't I do both? I have friends in this game, I don't have friends who play WoW or Second Life. If they're not doing those things in other games now, why do you think they'd join you if those things came to EvE? -RubyPorto IB4TS
Pop Bear Guerrilla Cartel 40	Posted - 2012.06.27 23:34:00 - [23] - Quote WIS is dead, but as far as I know they do still have plans for boardable structures that we actually walk around inside. Someone was talking about it on one of the fanfest vids, and I think they mentioned that it would be something to do with complexes & archaeology, and you would have to board the structure and actually look around and find the artifacts. The first minute of this vid shows it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI53ydJaus8&feature=plcp
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief 763	Posted - 2012.06.27 23:36:00 - [24] - Quote Scatim Helicon wrote: Serious question: why are you not doing these things in Second Life or some other such 'social gameplay' environment? Because I want to play a "complete Sci Fi simulation" game. One with ships, industry, a market, territory conquest, and people walking about. No other game is as close to this as Eve is. How many Sci Fi movies or TV shows are there that do have spaceships, but do not have people walking about? Fake edit: Recently with all the forum rage over locking threads, some people pointed out that many forum posts are part of the meta-game, to demoralize or confuse the enemy making it easier to win wars. It seems to me that avatars interacting in a station environment could be used for exactly that same purpose. We will not be able to fight in there, so interaction with the enemy will be a war of typed words. But with no CCP moderation. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/
TheBreadMuncher Boxxed Up Industries EPIC Alliance 139	Posted - 2012.06.27 23:36:00 - [25] - Quote You want walking? Get DUST when it comes out. EVE is for spaceships, DUST is for bouncing around on the ground looking sparkly. No, sorry, that's WoD... "We will create the introduction thread if that is requested by the community. Also, we will have an ISD Seminar about the CCL team in the coming weeks in which you can ask your questions about the CCL team and provide some constructive feedback to us." - Countless pages of locked threads and numerous permabanned accounts later, change is coming.
Flamespar Woof Club 388	Posted - 2012.06.27 23:51:00 - [26] - Quote If CCP comes up with a fun way to use Avatars that adds to the spaceship game, I think most players won't have a problem with it. Prometheus style exploration ftw I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
Alexzandvar Douglass NUTS AND BOLTS MANUFACTURING En Garde 42	Posted - 2012.06.27 23:51:00 - [27] - Quote I only want WIS if the Minmitar station has an actually strip club as advertised on the station undock.
Peter Raptor Plutonian Army 255	Posted - 2012.06.27 23:57:00 - [28] - Quote Because WiS is on hold, we now have a much better game, with more interesting game play, better spaceship pilots, and fewer weirdo avatar perverts with no life, trying to chat up 12 year olds. Abandon WiS . Evelopedia;-á The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion -áGÇá-á-á
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings 250	Posted - 2012.06.28 00:13:00 - [29] - Quote Pix Severus wrote: CCP released an unfinished mess, causing a bunch of players to have a hissy-fit Fixed it for you. The problem was that CCP totally botched WiS. 1. It has no multiplayer value, as you can only wander your hangar alone 2. The hangar offers no benefit, making many things take longer than simply using the old interface. 3. It was released with HORRIBLE perfomance issues. 4. It was released without any indication of added features anytime soon. It's like the NEX store. They opened that with what, maybe 5 items? If you decided to open a clothing shop, and then stocked your shelves with only a handfule of overpriced items to choose from, how long would you stay in business? Even if CCP did nothing more than create a central room where characters could congregate I think WiS would have been a better success. Just being able to virtually sit down with another player you are chatting with would have been a much better success. But they didn't (and still don't) have anything like that. I don't really care about WiS that much. But if they do finish it, they had better wait at this point until they have something useful to add, like shops etc. Honestly, my feeling is they released it the way they did on purpose. They knew it wasnt ready. But it released the engine showing full characters walking around so they could then use that to make new promotional videos. Especially the ones tying Dust and EVE together. (those promotional videos are pretty kick ass).
Mortimer Civeri Aliastra Gallente Federation 129	Posted - 2012.06.28 00:28:00 - [30] - Quote Excellent troll, 9.5/10 to you OP. Subtle disapproval and disappointment, a hint of WIS whine, with a crisp "it would be awesome if," finish. "I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin

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