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Incarna/WiS Disappointment

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ugh zug 30	Posted - 2012.08.20 00:50:00 - [1171] - Quote im pretty sure WIS is still being worked on just very slowly, i assume it will be released once it's polished and functional. CCP will have more staff to work on this after dust and WoD is deployed. What most people had a hissy fit about was the Nex Store not the captain quarters in combination with the disclosures of certain documents to a certain eve news site. Want me to shut up?-á Send me ISK and i'll stop giving suggestions to CCP that make sense. Remove content from my post, 15 bil Remove my content from a thread I have started 30bil.
Ghazu 36	Posted - 2012.08.20 02:34:00 - [1172] - Quote Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Scatim Helicon wrote: Pipa Porto wrote: And I think the work Team Avatar's hinted at in this thread sounds fantastic. Where have I said otherwise? Team Avatar looks to be working on giving us meaningful interaction with the next Incarna release, and that's exciting. The thing that I've been arguing against is the idea that having a multi-character CQ is a worthy goal for its own sake. What's truly bizarre is the people who've gone even beyond that and seem to actively oppose WiS having gameplay in it. "Noooo, don't give me anything interesting to do in my featureless graphical chatroom!" I wonder who you're talking about. I am opposing that Team Avatar's dungeon raiding prototype became at any point the only way to leave the CQ, nothing else. I don't care that Team Avatar recycles combat PvP into WiS form, as long as they provide OTHER options FIRST. The conundrum is, EVE lacks more gameplay options, if they are added to core gameplay they will break the core gameplay further, thus extra gameplay should be added outside of core gameplay. Enter WiS as an alternative to FiS and everybody is happy. Then, in order to develop WiS as an alternative to FiS, the first step should be to ask the players what else would they like to do aside of FiS. "Shoot each other's face, unga unga!" is an obvious answer, but, what else could be done to draw in new players who never thought they would play EVE Online? Of course, this all becomes like splitting hairs once WiS has been delayed for two years, Team Avatar can't talk about their work and all in all CCP marketing is already devaluating the subscription price a 45% in order to raise subscribers. (Of course, there is another way... if people does want to play with humanoid avatars and they don't exactly like EVE, scratch EVE and enter World of Darkness... but then what the hell do we do with all the money, time, skills and such we invested in our EVE characters? ) Again you are demanding for the quick and dirty I just want to emote with a bunch of dudes. Stop trying to ride the coattails of the yet to come new players and painting them as if they were all imvu second life freak refugees like you, coming to eve only to quit after their first month's up because "they can't emote each other". Your invested time, money and skills? What you want a refund?
Buylow Sell-High Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.08.20 05:01:00 - [1173] - Quote Ghazu wrote: ..... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes......... emote with a bunch of dudes..... Yeah, we get the point. Welcome to the block list, you say the same thing every time. Bye fail troll.
Ghazu 37	Posted - 2012.08.20 05:16:00 - [1174] - Quote It is what it is no matter what kinds of words you people use to describe wis. Facts are harsh.
Ghazu 37	Posted - 2012.08.20 05:28:00 - [1175] - Quote CCP Zulu "Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience." Made me do it.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 4479	Posted - 2012.08.20 05:52:00 - [1176] - Quote Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Oh, the "18 months" tale again... the infamous 18 months were NOT spent in WiS alone actually, as most of the effort was done to rebuild the core libraries... No it wasn't. Refactorisation was one of the projects, but Icarna had something like 11 out of 18 total teams assigned to it. FiS had 2 teams. Stop trying to rewrite history: The 2009-2011 Incarna project was incredibly poorly managed and produced incredibly poor results compared to the resources assigned. When there's a working beta of a multiplayer avatar engine on SiSi, we can start talking about what should or shouldnt be in Incarna. Until then I can easily name 4 or 5 major projects that would unquestionably benefit the FiS game and the MMO EVE overall more than designing art assets and dungeons for a game engine that can't support 2 players on screen at once. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 4479	Posted - 2012.08.20 05:54:00 - [1177] - Quote oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: Malcanis wrote: oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: Well CCP redeemed themselves with crubicle or i am i wrong with that? They bought themselves some time with a laundry list of easy-to-fix player issues. Ms Porto is correct: the root cause of the ill-feeling against the Incarna project is that it sucked up the vast majority of the resources dedicated to EVE for a very long time, and gave us virtually nothing in return. If :18 months: had bought us just some of multi-avatar gameplay, social spaces, the battle room, minigames, black marketing, avatar exploration, etc etc, then there would have been some mumbling and grumbling about that laundry list of issues, but there wouldn't have been such a furious backlash. Having been short-changed in this way once, surely you understand that there is a demographic here who can hardly be blamed for wanting to be reassured that it won't happen again? I've said - many times - that in the long run, *EVE needs* Incarna**, and I stand by that even now. But all considerations of gameplay, resource allocation, emotes, art assets, yadda yadda, are meaningless unless and until CCP can put a working demonstration of a couple of dozen avatars in the same area onto SiSi. Until they've finished creating the core engine, there is no "Incarna", only a preliminary tech demo of what it might one day look like. Allocating multiple teams for all that other stuff is wastefully premature while there's still a huge amount of work that can usefully be done to right now improve the FiS game. Again ,what is the negative effect on EvE ,other then disappointment by lack of content One could ask the same question about your waiting another 18 months for Incarna features. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Vagilicious Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 38	Posted - 2012.08.20 08:35:00 - [1178] - Quote Ai Shun made a very interesting proposal for how WiS could work in being made into a separate, but connected part of EVE. Thread is here. Like many others, I've been eagerly awaiting the chance to walk around in stations since the first time plans were announced way back. I was also very disappointed in what Incarna eventually delivered after all that time, once the initial 'ooh, shiny' had worn off. I still believe that avatar based gameplay is a natural progression in CCP's vision for EVE becoming the ultimate sci-fi simulation. I know that many people had issues with the CQ and single avatar melting their graphics cards, but many new games that push the envelope with graphical detail have the same problems. Once technology catches up and allows the games to run smoothly it ceases to become an issue, until the next new thing comes along. To my mind it shows how forward thinking and ahead of the curve CCP actually are. In a couple of years when we've had progressively faster graphics cards on the market, the CQ (and hopefully any additions that Team Avatar come up with in that time) will still look fantastic. I think the future is looking bright for EVE in general, and I intend to be around to see it happen. So what's a couple more years to wait? Incidentally, I still see the same misinformation being posted about the Jita riots being blamed on Incarna. It was about the whole 'Greed is Good' microtransactions issue, which, while linked to Incarna through the NeX, did not mean that Incarna was the only reason. Threat of gold ammo anyone?
Scott PiIgrim Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2012.08.20 13:16:00 - [1179] - Quote I've made corporations, I've made alliances, now i want to make a bar to resign my eve career. Share stories over quafe and enjoy drunk duels outside the station. I really hope CCP makes it, so we few oldtimers can enjoy it
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief 939	Posted - 2012.08.20 15:23:00 - [1180] - Quote Malcanis wrote: ...... When there's a working beta of a multiplayer avatar engine on SiSi, ......... Its on there right now. But you got to use a PS3 to access it. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/

Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 4483	Posted - 2012.08.20 16:19:00 - [1181] - Quote Vincent Athena wrote: Malcanis wrote: ...... When there's a working beta of a multiplayer avatar engine on SiSi, ......... Its on there right now. But you got to use a PS3 to access it. Gratz for managing to remain ignorant of he difference between CCP's custom Avatar rendering engine and a UT3 engine adapted FPS. It can't have been easy but you did it. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief 939	Posted - 2012.08.20 16:45:00 - [1182] - Quote Actually, neither rendering engine is on Sisi. But multi-avatar areas are. But your point has validity: When the server tells the dust client to render multiple avatars, UT3 can do it. If the server told the Eve client to render multiple avatars using Carbon... well hopefully CCP knows what happens. Edits: Content and spelling http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/
oldbutfeelingyoung Perkone Caldari State 675	Posted - 2012.08.20 18:22:00 - [1183] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Oh, the "18 months" tale again... the infamous 18 months were NOT spent in WiS alone actually, as most of the effort was done to rebuild the core libraries... No it wasn't. Refactorisation was one of the projects, but Icarna had something like 11 out of 18 total teams assigned to it. FiS had 2 teams. Stop trying to rewrite history: The 2009-2011 Incarna project was incredibly poorly managed and produced incredibly poor results compared to the resources assigned. When there's a working beta of a multiplayer avatar engine on SiSi, we can start talking about what should or shouldnt be in Incarna. Until then I can easily name 4 or 5 major projects that would unquestionably benefit the FiS game and the MMO EVE overall more than designing art assets and dungeons for a game engine that can't support 2 players on screen at once. WIS has now 1 small team now for about a year now and still people complain about resources. And now with the Dust and EvE connection on Sisi i think TA is not working on Avatar stuff now and a lot of resources from the FIS part of EvE should be looking for bugs in that consolecrap (sorry i don,t like it ,if you do ,good for you and be happy about it) If it is possible to have more avatars now ,we don,t know ,bc Team Avatar is silenced If Dust has social areas ,then vanishing the blog is not an CCP decision ,but an all exclusive Sony decision
Freelancer117 So you want to be a Hero 37	Posted - 2012.08.20 20:07:00 - [1184] - Quote After finally reading Templar One and seeing CCP T0rfiFrans presentation it is good to see that CCP has some idea where they want Incarna to be. That said I believe that Walking in Spacestations (Ambulation) is a part of Incarna to and should also be itterated on in the future. We pride ourselves that this game's content is player driven/made and that can only be done with interacting with eachother. Having establisments can be a huge part of avatar gameplay, where players can interact and create new persistant content. I understand this will plan will be years (minimum of 2,3 or 4) to be implemented if we are lucky, and only if CCP's investors and management will see any kind of monetization from it, like the nex store items. In the meanwhile lets just hope that the competition (ArenaNet, indy's) and not just the CSM will push CCP towards a better eve with more completed features so that this game can finally shine. Cya someday in an Eve Radio station bar Eve Radio
Bagrat Skalski Poseidaon 6	Posted - 2012.08.20 20:56:00 - [1185] - Quote Quote: Cya someday in an Eve Radio station bar The Faith is strong with this one. All we can do now is prey (to CCP of course).
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 4485	Posted - 2012.08.20 21:01:00 - [1186] - Quote oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: Malcanis wrote: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote: Oh, the "18 months" tale again... the infamous 18 months were NOT spent in WiS alone actually, as most of the effort was done to rebuild the core libraries... No it wasn't. Refactorisation was one of the projects, but Icarna had something like 11 out of 18 total teams assigned to it. FiS had 2 teams. Stop trying to rewrite history: The 2009-2011 Incarna project was incredibly poorly managed and produced incredibly poor results compared to the resources assigned. When there's a working beta of a multiplayer avatar engine on SiSi, we can start talking about what should or shouldnt be in Incarna. Until then I can easily name 4 or 5 major projects that would unquestionably benefit the FiS game and the MMO EVE overall more than designing art assets and dungeons for a game engine that can't support 2 players on screen at once. WIS has now 1 small team now for about a year now and still people complain about resources. And now with the Dust and EvE connection on Sisi i think TA is not working on Avatar stuff now and a lot of resources from the FIS part of EvE should be looking for bugs in that consolecrap (sorry i don,t like it ,if you do ,good for you and be happy about it) If it is possible to have more avatars now ,we don,t know ,bc Team Avatar is silenced I agree that team Avatar shouldn't be silenced. In fact I think one of the major contributors to the Incarna disaster was the project walling itself off from players. I can understant CCP Unifex not wanting to repeat the mistake of building hype that CCP can't live up to, but shutting off all communication is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 703	Posted - 2012.08.20 21:08:00 - [1187] - Quote I see the logic behind it though - if there's little if anything in terms of concrete info right now, why put out a bunch of words to generate attention for something that isn't likely to be released for the next 2 or 3 expansions at least? I'm sure Incarna is a touchy subject in the CCP offices these days, and its not surprising that the company is trying to tread very carefully around any mention of it. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge **.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006 ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 4485	Posted - 2012.08.20 21:28:00 - [1188] - Quote Scatim Helicon wrote: I see the logic behind it though - if there's little if anything in terms of concrete info right now, why put out a bunch of words to generate attention for something that isn't likely to be released for the next 2 or 3 expansions at least? I'm sure Incarna is a touchy subject in the CCP offices these days, and its not surprising that the company is trying to tread very carefully around any mention of it. Quite so. The answer, IMO, is to be open and frank with the players about the current state of the project, what can realistically be achieved in the next 6/12/18 months, and to have an ongoing converstion with us as stakeholders in the project. Let the SiSi client be their ambassador. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Irya Boone Escadron leader 38	Posted - 2012.08.20 22:37:00 - [1189] - Quote humm the project is dead so let it in peace for BoB sake Whormoles are working as Intended .. so don't Touch my Hole CCP !!! CCP Why don't you name the 0.0 and null system With real name of solar system it would be so awesome !!! and put some NASA logo on the game :)
Ghazu 38	Posted - 2012.08.21 02:40:00 - [1190] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Scatim Helicon wrote: I see the logic behind it though - if there's little if anything in terms of concrete info right now, why put out a bunch of words to generate attention for something that isn't likely to be released for the next 2 or 3 expansions at least? I'm sure Incarna is a touchy subject in the CCP offices these days, and its not surprising that the company is trying to tread very carefully around any mention of it. Quite so. The answer, IMO, is to be open and frank with the players about the current state of the project, what can realistically be achieved in the next 6/12/18 months, and to have an ongoing converstion with us as stakeholders in the project. Let the SiSi client be their ambassador. Let's hope they've learned to listen to feedback and not repeat unified inventory 1.0

oldbutfeelingyoung Perkone Caldari State 675	Posted - 2012.08.21 02:43:00 - [1191] - Quote Scatim Helicon wrote: I see the logic behind it though - if there's little if anything in terms of concrete info right now, why put out a bunch of words to generate attention for something that isn't likely to be released for the next 2 or 3 expansions at least? I'm sure Incarna is a touchy subject in the CCP offices these days, and its not surprising that the company is trying to tread very carefully around any mention of it. if they wanted to be carefully ,then Team Avatar had to be silenced from the beginning If Dust has social areas ,then vanishing the blog is not an CCP decision ,but an all exclusive Sony decision
Oberine Noriepa 902	Posted - 2012.08.21 03:13:00 - [1192] - Quote oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: Scatim Helicon wrote: I see the logic behind it though - if there's little if anything in terms of concrete info right now, why put out a bunch of words to generate attention for something that isn't likely to be released for the next 2 or 3 expansions at least? I'm sure Incarna is a touchy subject in the CCP offices these days, and its not surprising that the company is trying to tread very carefully around any mention of it. if they wanted to be carefully ,then Team Avatar had to be silenced from the beginning Prior to Team Avatar's active silence, it's dubious as to whether management was even aware of the chatter regarding prototyping. The fact that they have been silenced and continue to be silent is highly evident that CCP is being cautious about Incarna.
Flamespar Woof Club 443	Posted - 2012.08.21 03:39:00 - [1193] - Quote Is there something multi-avatar related on SiSi at the moment? I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone.
Oberine Noriepa 902	Posted - 2012.08.21 03:55:00 - [1194] - Quote Flamespar wrote: Is there something multi-avatar related on SiSi at the moment? Negative.
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief 940	Posted - 2012.08.21 05:02:00 - [1195] - Quote Flamespar wrote: Is there something multi-avatar related on SiSi at the moment? Only in that Dust is on Sisi. Apparently there is something called the Event Horizon Lounge the dust players enter. In there are other avatars and even an NPC in it that looks like an Eve avatar that is wearing the same top-outer my avatar has. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/
Oberine Noriepa 902	Posted - 2012.08.21 05:41:00 - [1196] - Quote Vincent Athena wrote: Flamespar wrote: Is there something multi-avatar related on SiSi at the moment? Only in that Dust is on Sisi. Apparently there is something called the Event Horizon Lounge the dust players enter. In there are other avatars and even an NPC in it that looks like an Eve avatar that is wearing the same top-outer my avatar has. I believe the Event Horizon Lounge is PlayStation Home content. It's not accessible through Dust 514 or EVE.
Ekscalybur Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.08.21 06:41:00 - [1197] - Quote oldbutfeelingyoung wrote: Antisocial Malkavian wrote: Antisocial Malkavian wrote: there were enough that didhnt want it it cut into ccp so they had to fire 20% of the company.... thats significant Quote: tell me exactly what negative effect WIS had ,other then disappointment about content Cause yeah none of the ignoring FiS for as long as they did to focus on noncombat beta walking engine for WoD had ANYTHING to do with that right? Take off the rose colored glasses bud Well CCP redeemed themselves with crubicle or i am i wrong with that? in under 6 months But come on ,come with a good reason WIS is negative for EvE and come with a reason about WIS itself this time Here's a good argument against WiS. Look at my sig. When I quit playing in Eve, they were talking about the new Walking in Stations stuff. That was 4 friggin years ago....... swallow that bit, 4 years ago. Walking in Stations was the bit they were bragging about for the expansion that was to be released shortly after I quit playing. I come back and WiS is a room and a walkway. A room and a walkway. That's it. Many games get conceptualized, developed and release in that amount of time. In the same amount of time, we got a room. I did an entire stint in the US Army during my hiatus, and this is what we have. I come back 4 years later...... a newb with 26M skillpoints.
Caldari Phantom Intergalactic systems 2	Posted - 2012.08.21 06:53:00 - [1198] - Quote Many good arguments both for and against wis here. I just want to set up my little tobacco shop down by the exhaust pipes. All the way down, under the ship deck. Maybe sell some boosters on the side? On ocation i would even stop by the casino on the top floor. This would be awesome sauce imo. Too bad it will probably never happen..
Jim Luc Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 31	Posted - 2012.08.21 07:11:00 - [1199] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Vincent Athena wrote: Malcanis wrote: ...... When there's a working beta of a multiplayer avatar engine on SiSi, ......... Its on there right now. But you got to use a PS3 to access it. Gratz for managing to remain ignorant of he difference between CCP's custom Avatar rendering engine and a UT3 engine adapted FPS. It can't have been easy but you did it. I believe the Incarna engine IS the Unreal Engine, albeit modified. It would be pretty cool if they were able to port the Dust engine into Eve for Walking/Fighting in Stations.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 4488	Posted - 2012.08.21 07:19:00 - [1200] - Quote You believe incorrectly. UT3 has no issues with rendering multiple avatars... nd its not nearly as pretty. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/



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