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Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.04.26 23:27:00 - [91] Originally by: Viper **zIe Only an idiot could complain about things being "overpowered" or "game breaking" or "not fair" when they have no idea how they work in the actual game environment. I thought I'd point out again that in low sec (only), my Sabre doesn't counter your Nyx. I think we all know what the right answer is here, and it isn't putting bubbles in low sec. Supercaps lose ewar immunity in lowsec. TIA -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.04.26 23:34:00 - [92] Originally by: Viper **zIe What's with all the ad hominem Bellum, I just pointed out what you said. Let's do some simple numbers here. It would take 12 titans to kill a properly fit Nyx with DDs (on lowest resist, explosive), it would take 19 to kill a properly fit Nyx if it decided to overload its hardeners. This is all assuming it has no gang bonuses and if they all had DD 5. FYI, it's 26-27 with a Erebus boosting. Only an idiot would think this is feasible without the node crashing and only an idiot would take a mothership into such a situation. Next, there is no difference between a "solo fit" mothership and a "bricked RR fit mothership". Only an idiot would have personal reps and only an idiot wouldn't try to maximize their effective hitpoints. Also, maybe you should understand the definition of precedent. Saying that one class of ships lost the ability to do one thing while assuming that means an entirely different class of ships should not be able to do something completely different does not imply precedent. Hell, it doesn't even imply that the two classes are connected in any way (you may notice the use of the word different). Only an idiot could complain about things being "overpowered" or "game breaking" or "not fair" when they have no idea how they work in the actual game environment. Fine fine, I apologize for the ad hominem. But you're still (trying very hard) to miss the points I'm making. Just because it's not smart to fly around in SCs with a 'solo fit' doesn't mean it's not common. I wouldn't do it but I know people who do. So to -you- there's no difference between a solo fit and a 'bricked RR' fit, but clearly other people think differently. Is it smart? No. Does it happen? Yes. Additionally, in 0.0 Titan's DDs work, and that is the best defense against SC EW immune spider tanking, which simply isn't available in lowsec. Yes, I know exactly how many DDs it would take to 'one volley' a Nyx. If 0.0 is so safe then why aren't you hotdropping 4-6x MS by themselves on 0.0 targets? I'm sure there's plenty of them out there. My comparison (to make it completely clear) between Titans and SC in lowsec is that Titans lose a SHIP FUNCTION (DD) in lowsec. I never said they lose EW immunity. Why so obtuse? I'm saying that if it's game balancing to have no DDs in lowsec for Titans then that sets precedent for a class of ships to lose a special ability per security status of the system. You're really going to continue to pick at this? I know how things work in 'the actual game environment' just fine. Hence, no, I'm not an idiot. - Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Viper ShizzIe Habitual Euthanasia Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.26 23:40:00 - [93] Edited by: Viper **zIe on 26/04/2010 23:43:26 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Viper **zIe Only an idiot could complain about things being "overpowered" or "game breaking" or "not fair" when they have no idea how they work in the actual game environment. I thought I'd point out again that in low sec (only), my Sabre doesn't counter your Nyx. I think we all know what the right answer is here, and it isn't putting bubbles in low sec. Supercaps lose ewar immunity in lowsec. TIA -Liang It also doesn't counter sieged dreads or carriers in triage which can jump as soon as their cycle is over, it also doesn't counter titans. Hey, guess what, there's good news. There's a class of ships that was designed to do exactly that, and they do a pretty good job at it. Maybe you should try using one of the ships specifically designed for tackling ewar immune ships instead of crying that your ~insert random scrub ship here~ can't do it. Originally by: Bellum Eternus My comparison (to make it completely clear) between Titans and SC in lowsec is that Titans lose a SHIP FUNCTION (DD) in lowsec. I never said they lose EW immunity. Why so obtuse? I'm saying that if it's game balancing to have no DDs in lowsec for Titans then that sets precedent for a class of ships to lose a special ability per security status of the system. You're really going to continue to pick at this? DD originally worked in lowsec post-patch, it was removed because it was an "exploit" since the AOE DD didn't work before, not because it broke balance. There was even discussion of re-adding it to the game, but now that Abathur has left and nobody at CCP actually cares about capitals anymore I doubt very much that it will happen. Also maybe we don't use them in 0.0 because escalation as a 50 character corp is somewhat impossible to do in that regard without having half of the game blue~
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.04.26 23:44:00 - [94] My solo frigs cant compete. Something must be done. ~_~
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.04.26 23:46:00 - [95] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 26/04/2010 23:46:40 Originally by: Viper **zIe It also doesn't counter sieged dreads or carriers in triage which can jump as soon as their cycle is over, it also doesn't counter titans. Hey, guess what, there's good news. There's a class of ships that was designed to do exactly that, and they do a pretty good job at it. Maybe you should try using one of the ships specifically designed for tackling ewar immune ships instead of crying that your ~insert random scrub ship here~ can't do it. Here, let's see if I can spell this out clearly: - Supercarriers are a supercap - There are four counters to a supercap in 0.0 - There are megablobs and massive napfests in 0.0 - There is exactly one counter to a supercap in low sec. - Supercarriers are fully functional in low sec => Supercarriers are more powerful in low sec - which is a place singularly ill suited to doing anything about them. There are two reasonable solutions to a glaring game imbalance here: - Ban all supercaps from low sec - Supercaps lose ewar immunity in low sec -Liang Ed: Also, dictors are hardly "scrub ships" considering that they've been used many times to counter supercaps .... in 0.0 -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2010.04.26 23:48:00 - [96] Edited by: Le Skunk on 26/04/2010 23:51:18 Originally by: Viper **zIe DD originally worked in lowsec post-patch, it was removed because it was an "exploit" since the AOE DD didn't work before, not because it broke balance They knew perfectly well the new targeted DD worked in lowsec. I and many other pointed it out to them many times on the test server thread, and indeed pointed out what sort of dire consequences it would have for small-mid sized corps. The DD in lowsec was not balanced, and hence was removed. Originally by: Viper **zIe Only an idiot could complain about things being "overpowered" or "game breaking" or "not fair" when they have no idea how they work in the actual game environment. Perhaps, but if somebody calls a ship overpowered and you then go on to prove that the ship is actualy 5 times MORE POWERFULL then the person you are calling an idiots perception of the ship - whats your argument? SKUNK (o)
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.04.26 23:55:00 - [97] Originally by: Viper **zIe DD originally worked in lowsec post-patch, it was removed because it was an "exploit" since the AOE DD didn't work before, not because it broke balance. There was even discussion of re-adding it to the game, but now that Abathur has left and nobody at CCP actually cares about capitals anymore I doubt very much that it will happen. Also maybe we don't use them in 0.0 because escalation as a 50 character corp is somewhat impossible to do in that regard without having half of the game blue~ Bolded the important part. So yes, I agree with you completely- you choose to kill stuff smaller than yourselves and stick to lowsec where you can beat up on smaller groups and enjoy the fact that you'll never be able to be killed without a massively larger fleet coming into play. - Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
D3rg3	Posted - 2010.04.26 23:58:00 - [98] Originally by: Omal Oma Join an alliance who holds sov, live in their systems and roam 0.0. If they hold sov, they can cyno jam the system and defend against it. yeah, take that you lowsec n00bs. l2pvp like real 0.0 men. if you cant handle getting superblobbed by supercarriers in lowsec, maybe you arent fit to play the game how you like me now, im so effin zerozerohard you cant touch this batches
Dez Affinity Habitual Euthanasia Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.27 00:00:00 - [99] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Viper **zIe DD originally worked in lowsec post-patch, it was removed because it was an "exploit" since the AOE DD didn't work before, not because it broke balance. There was even discussion of re-adding it to the game, but now that Abathur has left and nobody at CCP actually cares about capitals anymore I doubt very much that it will happen. Also maybe we don't use them in 0.0 because escalation as a 50 character corp is somewhat impossible to do in that regard without having half of the game blue~ Bolded the important part. So yes, I agree with you completely- you choose to kill stuff smaller than yourselves and stick to lowsec where you can beat up on smaller groups and enjoy the fact that you'll never be able to be killed without a massively larger fleet coming into play. Quoting a MeatSausage Express guy about sticking to low-sec, blobbing smaller groups and using caps on those without a large fleet. _______________
Viper ShizzIe Habitual Euthanasia Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.27 00:04:00 - [100] Originally by: Liang Nuren Here, let's see if I can spell this out clearly: - Supercarriers are a supercap - There are four counters to a supercap in 0.0 - There are megablobs and massive napfests in 0.0 - There is exactly one counter to a supercap in low sec. - Supercarriers are fully functional in low sec => Supercarriers are more powerful in low sec - which is a place singularly ill suited to doing anything about them. There are two reasonable solutions to a glaring game imbalance here: - Ban all supercaps from low sec - Supercaps lose ewar immunity and fighter bombers in low sec -Liang Ed: Also, dictors are hardly "scrub ships" considering that they've been used many times to counter supercaps .... in 0.0 Do you actually play this game? Megablobs and napfests are involved in lowsec as well (especially when there are dumb supercaps to kill) they are, however, far less prevalent. The HIC is a single counter to a supercap in lowsec, neuting/bumping is another (that's how you had to do it before HICs, remember). Along the same lines as your whinge, you should remove EW invulnerability from siege modules and triage modules as well, right. Also, please tell me ways to kill a triage carrier in lowsec within its 5 minute triage cycle without using motherships or above a dozen dreads/carriers, because it's sure as hell going to jump out before you can get a point on it when triage drops. You can't really say that motherships are breaking the game because you're just too lazy to bring a ship that counters them. Also, I like the point LeSkunk made about them being FIVE TIMES more powerful, your fallacies are showing~
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2010.04.27 00:08:00 - [101] Edited by: Le Skunk on 27/04/2010 00:08:16 Originally by: Viper **zIe The HIC is a single counter to a supercap in lowsec, neuting/bumping is another (that's how you had to do it before HICs, remember) Yes, neuting and bumping was so effective it worked once in 9 months on a pilot who solo hotdropped the same system every day for 2 weeks at the same time. I am glad to hear the HIC is a counter to MOM drops. Next time im hotdropped by 7 mother ships, Ill get in my HIC (I can fly all 4 dont ya known) and everything will be alright \o/ SKUNK (o)
Morgs44 Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams	Posted - 2010.04.27 00:12:00 - [102] I wouldn't say i am crying about it yet (well maybe over a nice battle gone due to a sc) but just stating that they are getting common (well in our area). First of all NO bubbles in low sec...just no. I think a main point is trying to kill those sucks. This is low sec, we aren't massive 0.0 alliance with multiply super capitals on hand at most time. Low sec in my eye is the land where small to medium corp and alliance can pew pew or know the risk of pew pew without to much worry of massive 1000+ 0.0 fleets bumping into there roam (or knowing about them). When you think about 0.0 spilling out into low sec lets say your 10 man gang is on a roam. 1.) You bump into a 100+ BS gang - well you should have had a scout 2.) You get titan bridged by a 40 man gang - well good on them 40 ppl wanting to have some fun, maybe well get a few or run like hell 3.) You engage in a nice battle when a bored SC drops - anyone pointed is probably dead (if not nano) everyone else leave.
Jhagiti Tyran Invicta.	Posted - 2010.04.27 00:12:00 - [103] Originally by: Liang Nuren I thought I'd point out again that in low sec (only), my Sabre doesn't counter your Nyx. -Liang What difference would a Sabre actually make? its not a counter at all an Interdictor is just a means to tackle the ship and not kill it or prevent it doing anything other than leaving the field and HICs already do this much more effectively and how would any other ship make a difference when it comes to restricting a supercarriers mobility? The real challenge is bringing enough damage to kill the supercarrier in a decent amount of time and have enough logistics before it chews apart your fleet or gets support. Would a Stabber be more effective than a Broadsword? or maybe a Zealot would be better than a Devoter? I don't think you would be so stupid as to try and claim that any other ship besides a capitol ship would not be nueted and swarmed with the appropriate drones just like a HIC would be so I do not really understand your argument about "counters" that work in nullsec but do not work in low sec, also on this point anchorable bubbles are a none starter in the majority of situations to.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.04.27 00:13:00 - [104] Originally by: Dez Affinity Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Viper **zIe DD originally worked in lowsec post-patch, it was removed because it was an "exploit" since the AOE DD didn't work before, not because it broke balance. There was even discussion of re-adding it to the game, but now that Abathur has left and nobody at CCP actually cares about capitals anymore I doubt very much that it will happen. Also maybe we don't use them in 0.0 because escalation as a 50 character corp is somewhat impossible to do in that regard without having half of the game blue~ Bolded the important part. So yes, I agree with you completely- you choose to kill stuff smaller than yourselves and stick to lowsec where you can beat up on smaller groups and enjoy the fact that you'll never be able to be killed without a massively larger fleet coming into play. Quoting a MeatSausage Express guy about sticking to low-sec, blobbing smaller groups and using caps on those without a large fleet. I don't think that if you assembled the entirety of my alliance online all at once it would amount to anything that could be referred to as a 'blob'. I fight outnumbered on plenty of occasions. - Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Dez Affinity Habitual Euthanasia Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.27 00:13:00 - [105] Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 27/04/2010 00:08:16 Originally by: Viper **zIe The HIC is a single counter to a supercap in lowsec, neuting/bumping is another (that's how you had to do it before HICs, remember) Yes, neuting and bumping was so effective it worked once in 9 months on a pilot who solo hotdropped the same system every day for 2 weeks at the same time. I am glad to hear the HIC is a counter to MOM drops. Next time im hotdropped by 7 mother ships, Ill get in my HIC (I can fly all 4 dont ya known) and everything will be alright \o/ SKUNK You expect 1 x 100m isk ship to completly counter 7 x 20b isk ship? Cool man. _______________
Viper ShizzIe Habitual Euthanasia Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.27 00:19:00 - [106] Originally by: Morgs44 I wouldn't say i am crying about it yet (well maybe over a nice battle gone due to a sc) but just stating that they are getting common (well in our area). You dropped a triage archon to fight someone who you outnumbered and you're complaining about ruining good fights? Really? Guess what, we aren't a massive 0.0 alliance with multiple supercaps online either. We're a 53 character corp, just about the same size as yours and definitely smaller than your alliance. If you hadn't have brought a triage archon in to save you from our smaller numbers (lol) then we wouldn't have needed to bring the motherships in. You decided to escalate, you paid the price, now you get to cry about it on an internet spaceship forum.
Morgs44 Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams	Posted - 2010.04.27 00:26:00 - [107] Originally by: Viper **zIe Originally by: Morgs44 I wouldn't say i am crying about it yet (well maybe over a nice battle gone due to a sc) but just stating that they are getting common (well in our area). You dropped a triage archon to fight someone who you outnumbered and you're complaining about ruining good fights? Really? Guess what, we aren't a massive 0.0 alliance with multiple supercaps online either. We're a 53 character corp, just about the same size as yours and definitely smaller than your alliance. If you hadn't have brought a triage archon in to save you from our smaller numbers (lol) then we wouldn't have needed to bring the motherships in. You decided to escalate, you paid the price, now you get to cry about it on an internet spaceship forum. Come on buddy, dropping a single carrier cant be compared to dropping a sc.
Dez Affinity Habitual Euthanasia Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.27 00:29:00 - [108] Originally by: Morgs44 Originally by: Viper **zIe Originally by: Morgs44 I wouldn't say i am crying about it yet (well maybe over a nice battle gone due to a sc) but just stating that they are getting common (well in our area). You dropped a triage archon to fight someone who you outnumbered and you're complaining about ruining good fights? Really? Guess what, we aren't a massive 0.0 alliance with multiple supercaps online either. We're a 53 character corp, just about the same size as yours and definitely smaller than your alliance. If you hadn't have brought a triage archon in to save you from our smaller numbers (lol) then we wouldn't have needed to bring the motherships in. You decided to escalate, you paid the price, now you get to cry about it on an internet spaceship forum. Come on buddy, dropping a single carrier cant be compared to dropping a sc. I wasn't there but, I'm not going to lie, it was overkill. So was 7 bs 1 t3 a couple others and a triage archon for 2 BS. That's the way the game is, sometimes you get blobbed, sometimes you're the blobber, once in a while you get a nice fair fight. _______________
Viper ShizzIe Habitual Euthanasia Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.27 00:29:00 - [109] Originally by: Morgs44 Originally by: Viper **zIe Originally by: Morgs44 I wouldn't say i am crying about it yet (well maybe over a nice battle gone due to a sc) but just stating that they are getting common (well in our area). You dropped a triage archon to fight someone who you outnumbered and you're complaining about ruining good fights? Really? Guess what, we aren't a massive 0.0 alliance with multiple supercaps online either. We're a 53 character corp, just about the same size as yours and definitely smaller than your alliance. If you hadn't have brought a triage archon in to save you from our smaller numbers (lol) then we wouldn't have needed to bring the motherships in. You decided to escalate, you paid the price, now you get to cry about it on an internet spaceship forum. Come on buddy, dropping a single carrier cant be compared to dropping a sc. You drop something that's virtually unkillable by what we have on grid and we'll do the same.
Ephemeron G-Force Enterprises Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.04.27 00:33:00 - [110] Viper ****zIe come on, you gotta admit that motherships in low sec are overpowered at least a little. Maybe not as much as your main opponents say, but at least a little You should also be aware that multiple DD is currently the most effective way to dispatch motherships. When CCP were buffing them, they thought specifically about 0.0 PvP dynamics, and specifically addressing the Titan's DD issue. DD was the main reason for boost. Since DD is not available in low sec, performance of motherships in low sec was boosted without justifiable reason. The only question is about the magnitude of overpower, and how severe the nerf should be. I suggest you try convince people that only a moderate nerf is needed, instead of trying to convince them there is no problem at all, which is doomed to fail.
Morgs44 Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams	Posted - 2010.04.27 00:39:00 - [111] Originally by: Ephemeron Viper ****zIe come on, you gotta admit that motherships in low sec are overpowered at least a little. Maybe not as much as your main opponents say, but at least a little You should also be aware that multiple DD is currently the most effective way to dispatch motherships. When CCP were buffing them, they thought specifically about 0.0 PvP dynamics, and specifically addressing the Titan's DD issue. DD was the main reason for boost. Since DD is not available in low sec, performance of motherships in low sec was boosted without justifiable reason. Agreed, I want to kill a sc ;-) and i dont want/think it should be easy. But at the moment they are to overpowered. Nerfing them only a little so there is a risk to the sc for coming into low sec The only question is about the magnitude of overpower, and how severe the nerf should be. I suggest you try convince people that only a moderate nerf is needed, instead of trying to convince them there is no problem at all, which is doomed to fail.
Viper ShizzIe Habitual Euthanasia Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.27 00:40:00 - [112] Edited by: Viper **zIe on 27/04/2010 00:40:56 Originally by: Ephemeron Viper ****zIe come on, you gotta admit that motherships in low sec are overpowered at least a little. Maybe not as much as your main opponents say, but at least a little You should also be aware that multiple DD is currently the most effective way to dispatch motherships. When CCP were buffing them, they thought specifically about 0.0 PvP dynamics, and specifically addressing the Titan's DD issue. DD was the main reason for boost. Since DD is not available in low sec, performance of motherships in low sec was boosted without justifiable reason. The only question is about the magnitude of overpower, and how severe the nerf should be. I suggest you try convince people that only a moderate nerf is needed, instead of trying to convince them there is no problem at all, which is doomed to fail. Motherships are balanced for 0.0 considering their cost and the effort that goes into building them, as well as the little thing about not being able to dock and keeping a character tied down. In lowsec "v0v", they are powerful but not to the point of breaking the game or being unkillable. The best way to dispatch motherships is with motherships, not with titans. Guess what, motherships work against motherships in lowsec too. Who would have thought. Edit: Oh look, it only took 1 HIC too~
NightmareX Dark-Rising IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.27 00:45:00 - [113] Not sure on what happened in that fight where the Hel died, but if that Hel have had a heavy neut or two, it would probably get out because the Hel would dry the HIC's cap so it would lose the point.
Morgs44 Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams	Posted - 2010.04.27 00:46:00 - [114] oh how stupid of me, why didnt i think of that! I'll just bring my 13 man super carrier fleet next time! Hay wait a minute... see his fit, that fight was over in seconds
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.04.27 00:46:00 - [115] Originally by: Viper **zIe Do you actually play this game? Every day, from 4am Eve time until near down time. Do you? Quote: Megablobs and napfests are involved in lowsec as well (especially when there are dumb supercaps to kill) they are, however, far less prevalent. In almost 4 years of living in low sec, I've never once seen anything approaching a megablob or napfest. The biggest low sec blob I've ever seen was 150 FW people. The flip side is that I've seen 150 man nano "small gang" roams from the bigger 0.0 alliances. Quote: Also, please tell me ways to kill a triage carrier in lowsec within its 5 minute triage cycle without using motherships or above a dozen dreads/carriers, because it's sure as hell going to jump out before you can get a point on it when triage drops Awesome, compare supercarriers which can do this any time they want vs carriers which require awesome timing and not having been made to tank for five minutes. Quote: You can't really say that motherships are breaking the game because you're just too lazy to bring a ship that counters them. No, I can definitely bring a ship that counters them... the simple fact is that the counters in low sec are much less powerful and numerous than the counters in 0.0. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
HarrietMiers Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.04.27 00:51:00 - [116] Remember how hard MSs were hard to kill in low sec before Hics? Yeah, you don't. Stop whining, get some friends, counter hot drop, and kill them. CCP isn't coming to save you.
Ephemeron G-Force Enterprises Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.04.27 00:53:00 - [117] Quote: Motherships are balanced for 0.0 considering their cost and the effort that goes into building them, as well as the little thing about not being able to dock and keeping a character tied down. In lowsec "v0v", they are powerful but not to the point of breaking the game or being unkillable. The best way to dispatch motherships is with motherships, not with titans. Guess what, motherships work against motherships in lowsec too. Both sides can agree that 0.0 balance should not be touched. Any proposed changes would apply to low sec only. As for the rest of the argument, it reminds me of the great Nano Nerf debate. Exactly same defense was used there. But unfortunately it failed with CCP. You are better off with damage control now, minimize the nerf. That's all I'm going to say on this subject.
Morgs44 Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams	Posted - 2010.04.27 00:55:00 - [118] Yeah i do http://bl3h-united.com/kwfl/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=132054
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.04.27 00:56:00 - [119] Originally by: HarrietMiers Remember how hard MSs were hard to kill in low sec before Hics? Yeah, you don't. Stop whining, get some friends, counter hot drop, and kill them. CCP isn't coming to save you. Oh you mean when we all wracked our brains trying to figure out how to kill Miz in Otou with his smartbombing mothership? -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Viper ShizzIe Habitual Euthanasia Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.27 00:57:00 - [120] Originally by: Liang Nuren No, I can definitely bring a ship that counters them... the simple fact is that the counters in low sec are much less powerful and numerous than the counters in 0.0. -Liang So you'd have a ship that costs 11b to build, requires an alt account to use, can't dock, can't "disengage" on-grid (i.e mwd away) and allow it to be scrambled by any scrub in a t1 frigate (or ibis~) when there's already a dedicated ship that would allow you to do all of this? And you'd leave other EW-immune ships alone when they are just as powerful if not more powerful in specific situations? Really? CCP should hire you, sounds like you know what you're talking about.

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