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Axee
   |
Posted - 2004.12.06 23:49:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Axee on 09/12/2004 21:29:12
Hello
Auction ends: Friday 10th December 23:00 GMT.
Starting Bid: 300M
Bid increments: 20M
10 Minute sniper rule.
First i must say i am posting with my alt character and not my main character.I will not reveal to any one but the winner of the auction. This will ensure the winners privacy on his new character.
The character will be transferd though a 3rd party. I have already talked with BIG and they have agreed they would do the transfer. So when the auction is done, i will contact the winner tlel him who to send the isk to (a big member) This will ensure that no one can get ripped off.
This Character has beena freelancer character so this means it is still in the noob corp. It has no real threats.
The character is training for large minig barge and only has 12 DAYS left for large barge, the character also comes with a crow and a MED. Mining barge.
THe character will be transferd to your account for free! yes i will pay 100% of the tranfer fee! 
Good Luck Bidding!
http://img38.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img38&image=8c-attributes.jpg
http://img38.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img38&image=8e-imp.jpg
http://img38.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img38&image=a1-skillsptotal.jpg
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Axee
|
Posted - 2004.12.06 23:49:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Axee on 09/12/2004 21:29:12
Hello
Auction ends: Friday 10th December 23:00 GMT.
Starting Bid: 300M
Bid increments: 20M
10 Minute sniper rule.
First i must say i am posting with my alt character and not my main character.I will not reveal to any one but the winner of the auction. This will ensure the winners privacy on his new character.
The character will be transferd though a 3rd party. I have already talked with BIG and they have agreed they would do the transfer. So when the auction is done, i will contact the winner tlel him who to send the isk to (a big member) This will ensure that no one can get ripped off.
This Character has beena freelancer character so this means it is still in the noob corp. It has no real threats.
The character is training for large minig barge and only has 12 DAYS left for large barge, the character also comes with a crow and a MED. Mining barge.
THe character will be transferd to your account for free! yes i will pay 100% of the tranfer fee!
Good Luck Bidding!
http://img38.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img38&image=8c-attributes.jpg
http://img38.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img38&image=8e-imp.jpg
http://img38.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img38&image=a1-skillsptotal.jpg
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Torplex Prime
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Posted - 2004.12.07 00:16:00 -
[3]
300 mill
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Torplex Prime
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Posted - 2004.12.07 00:16:00 -
[4]
300 mill
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fairimear
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Posted - 2004.12.07 00:32:00 -
[5]
310
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
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fairimear
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Posted - 2004.12.07 00:32:00 -
[6]
310
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
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fairimear
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Posted - 2004.12.07 00:35:00 -
[7]
Edited by: fairimear on 07/12/2004 00:40:03
sry missed 20 millbid incriments.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
|
fairimear
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Posted - 2004.12.07 00:35:00 -
[8]
Edited by: fairimear on 07/12/2004 00:40:03
sry missed 20 millbid incriments.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
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Yasshiel
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Posted - 2004.12.07 02:22:00 -
[9]
340 mil ^^
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Yasshiel
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Posted - 2004.12.07 02:22:00 -
[10]
340 mil ^^
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Axee
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Posted - 2004.12.07 04:58:00 -
[11]
Bump before bedtime!
this great character guys! perfect to make isk.
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Axee
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Posted - 2004.12.07 04:58:00 -
[12]
Bump before bedtime!
this great character guys! perfect to make isk.
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Axee
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Posted - 2004.12.07 20:21:00 -
[13]
Update: I will pay for the character transfer! all 100% of it!
(only couple more days left)
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Axee
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Posted - 2004.12.07 20:21:00 -
[14]
Update: I will pay for the character transfer! all 100% of it!
(only couple more days left)
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Vaio
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Posted - 2004.12.08 09:33:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Vaio on 08/12/2004 20:00:27
i retract my bid.
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Vaio
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Posted - 2004.12.08 09:33:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Vaio on 08/12/2004 20:00:27
i retract my bid.
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Rebaca
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Posted - 2004.12.08 20:08:00 -
[17]
500mil  |
Rebaca
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Posted - 2004.12.08 20:08:00 -
[18]
500mil |
TornSoul
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Posted - 2004.12.08 22:22:00 -
[19]
Just a warning
BIG is to my knowledge not involved in this transaction as a 3rd party in anyway.
I've only just been made aware of this post today.
I urge Axee to EVE mail me the details of his contacts with any BIGun in case this is a case of mis-communication.
Until then - I would consider this a scam.
BIG Lottery
[u |
TornSoul
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Posted - 2004.12.08 22:22:00 -
[20]
Just a warning
BIG is to my knowledge not involved in this transaction as a 3rd party in anyway.
I've only just been made aware of this post today.
I urge Axee to EVE mail me the details of his contacts with any BIGun in case this is a case of mis-communication.
Until then - I would consider this a scam.
BIG Lottery
[u |
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.09 10:25:00 -
[21]
550 million isk, pending BIG verification
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
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Fret
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Posted - 2004.12.09 10:25:00 -
[22]
550 million isk, pending BIG verification
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
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Faux
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Posted - 2004.12.09 12:52:00 -
[23]
bid pending verification of Big being 3rd party member for this deal.
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Faux
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Posted - 2004.12.09 12:52:00 -
[24]
bid pending verification of Big being 3rd party member for this deal.
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Fret
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Posted - 2004.12.09 15:21:00 -
[25]
600 million isk, bid pending verification of BIG mediation
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
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Fret
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Posted - 2004.12.09 15:21:00 -
[26]
600 million isk, bid pending verification of BIG mediation
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
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TornSoul
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Posted - 2004.12.09 22:36:00 -
[27]
Alright - There has been a bit of mis-communication (or lack of com rather).
This is not a scam.
It's a friend (in BIG) doing another friend a favor.
So you should be perfectly 'safe' doing this transaction (using the BIG member as 3rd party)
However!!!
BIG does not in the future wish to be a neutral 3rd party in transfers of this kind.
This is a one of, to make it possible for a friend to make good on his promise to help out (we are BIG on keeping our word).
The issue of char transfer is a (by some) highly contested issue.
BIG as a corp does not wish to be seen as taking either side in that debate.
Individual BIGuns each has their own differing views on the issue, so no 'blanket statement' from BIG as a corp will ever be made on this issue.
So please - do not approach us in the future about transfers of this kind.
BIG Lottery
[u |
TornSoul
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Posted - 2004.12.09 22:36:00 -
[28]
Alright - There has been a bit of mis-communication (or lack of com rather).
This is not a scam.
It's a friend (in BIG) doing another friend a favor.
So you should be perfectly 'safe' doing this transaction (using the BIG member as 3rd party)
However!!!
BIG does not in the future wish to be a neutral 3rd party in transfers of this kind.
This is a one of, to make it possible for a friend to make good on his promise to help out (we are BIG on keeping our word).
The issue of char transfer is a (by some) highly contested issue.
BIG as a corp does not wish to be seen as taking either side in that debate.
Individual BIGuns each has their own differing views on the issue, so no 'blanket statement' from BIG as a corp will ever be made on this issue.
So please - do not approach us in the future about transfers of this kind.
BIG Lottery
[u |
Tion
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Posted - 2004.12.10 05:11:00 -
[29]
First of All I'd like to apogize for to the Biders and Axee. I will Be the third party, now that TornSoul has give me the ok. A slight over sight on my apart, I will not take part in any deals after this one.
I have loged onto the Char. It is real. So Bid away!
Forums = B!tching
Don't be a fool and die for your corp! Let the other sonofab!tch die for his! |
Tion
|
Posted - 2004.12.10 05:11:00 -
[30]
First of All I'd like to apogize for to the Biders and Axee. I will Be the third party, now that TornSoul has give me the ok. A slight over sight on my apart, I will not take part in any deals after this one.
I have loged onto the Char. It is real. So Bid away!
Forums = B!tching
Don't be a fool and die for your corp! Let the other sonofab!tch die for his! |
Faux
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Posted - 2004.12.10 13:53:00 -
[31]
600 mil was just a wee bit more than i was wanting to bid.
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Faux
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Posted - 2004.12.10 13:53:00 -
[32]
600 mil was just a wee bit more than i was wanting to bid.
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Axee
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Posted - 2004.12.10 17:42:00 -
[33]
Well im glad things at BIG got resolved.
Today is the last day of the auction, so keep on bidding. When the auction is done, i will be contacting the winner, and tell when to send the isk.
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Axee
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Posted - 2004.12.10 17:42:00 -
[34]
Well im glad things at BIG got resolved.
Today is the last day of the auction, so keep on bidding. When the auction is done, i will be contacting the winner, and tell when to send the isk.
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Rebaca
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Posted - 2004.12.10 21:39:00 -
[35]
700mil And you bloody well not going any higher cause that's I'll I've got!  |
Rebaca
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Posted - 2004.12.10 21:39:00 -
[36]
700mil And you bloody well not going any higher cause that's I'll I've got! |
Fret
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Posted - 2004.12.11 01:05:00 -
[37]
750 million isk
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
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Fret
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Posted - 2004.12.11 01:05:00 -
[38]
750 million isk
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
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Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.12 13:11:00 -
[39]
After paying the 750 million isk I still have not recieved the character. Axee told me that upon the transfer he was notified there would be a 24 hour wait.... well 38 hours latter and 2 server re-boots latter I am a bit worried. Being that this auction was sanctioned by a BIG member, and verified by the BIG CEO herself, i rest assured that this will all fall into place.
Perhaps ot could be that it was done durring the weekend and they wont be able to completer the transfer until monday. Given all the possible things that could go wrong I undersand the reluctance of corporations such as BIG to become involved, I am grateful that at least this time BIG has played the middle man in my transaction. With millions of isk at stake here the only comfort I have is that BIG is the medium.
Hopefuly this will all pan out in the next 24 hours.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
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Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.12 13:11:00 -
[40]
After paying the 750 million isk I still have not recieved the character. Axee told me that upon the transfer he was notified there would be a 24 hour wait.... well 38 hours latter and 2 server re-boots latter I am a bit worried. Being that this auction was sanctioned by a BIG member, and verified by the BIG CEO herself, i rest assured that this will all fall into place.
Perhaps ot could be that it was done durring the weekend and they wont be able to completer the transfer until monday. Given all the possible things that could go wrong I undersand the reluctance of corporations such as BIG to become involved, I am grateful that at least this time BIG has played the middle man in my transaction. With millions of isk at stake here the only comfort I have is that BIG is the medium.
Hopefuly this will all pan out in the next 24 hours.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
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Safe Box
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Posted - 2004.12.12 14:57:00 -
[41]
There is no delay when transferring a character. It apprears on the other account instantly.
I take it you used a BIG representative to HOLD the isk till the character was confirmed as being on your account?
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Safe Box
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Posted - 2004.12.12 14:57:00 -
[42]
There is no delay when transferring a character. It apprears on the other account instantly.
I take it you used a BIG representative to HOLD the isk till the character was confirmed as being on your account?
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Fret
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Posted - 2004.12.13 12:25:00 -
[43]
Yes the isk was held by Tion, who is supposedly the sellers real life friend.It is now monday morning and a 3rd server re-boot with no character showing up. I have done this in the past with no problems such as this. Also i am worried that the seller has not followed up on this forum to contest any of these possibilities. I will give it another 12 hours to go through...if it has not i will appeal to BIG for mediation. I sincearly hope this is just a delay on CCP's part, after all I just want the character.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
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Fret
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Posted - 2004.12.13 12:25:00 -
[44]
Yes the isk was held by Tion, who is supposedly the sellers real life friend.It is now monday morning and a 3rd server re-boot with no character showing up. I have done this in the past with no problems such as this. Also i am worried that the seller has not followed up on this forum to contest any of these possibilities. I will give it another 12 hours to go through...if it has not i will appeal to BIG for mediation. I sincearly hope this is just a delay on CCP's part, after all I just want the character.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
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Fret
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Posted - 2004.12.13 12:59:00 -
[45]
I appeal to Axee and Tion to reply to this thread, it seems after the isk was transfered all has gone quiet. I have mailed TornSoul the CEO of BIG and appealed for her help and support in the matter. I have all confidence that BIG will make this right.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
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Fret
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Posted - 2004.12.13 12:59:00 -
[46]
I appeal to Axee and Tion to reply to this thread, it seems after the isk was transfered all has gone quiet. I have mailed TornSoul the CEO of BIG and appealed for her help and support in the matter. I have all confidence that BIG will make this right.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
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Asm0dai
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Posted - 2004.12.14 10:15:00 -
[47]
Taken From:-Eve-Online Thread
 Quote:
3. A new one that earned me 750 million ISK not too long ago is the æselling a fake characterÆ scam. Take screenshots of a character with lots of skill points, assets and good standings. Create an auction on the sell forum about you wanting to get rid of your character (post with an alt). DonÆt reveal the characters name and then have people bid on the character for 2-3 days. If you can find a person whoÆs willing to pay you the money first or even just æhalf now-half laterÆ like I got, you could find your wallet growing significantly without much effort. Note that this does not break any rules.
Looks like you've been had mate
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Asm0dai
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Posted - 2004.12.14 10:15:00 -
[48]
Taken From:-Eve-Online Thread
Quote:
3. A new one that earned me 750 million ISK not too long ago is the æselling a fake characterÆ scam. Take screenshots of a character with lots of skill points, assets and good standings. Create an auction on the sell forum about you wanting to get rid of your character (post with an alt). DonÆt reveal the characters name and then have people bid on the character for 2-3 days. If you can find a person whoÆs willing to pay you the money first or even just æhalf now-half laterÆ like I got, you could find your wallet growing significantly without much effort. Note that this does not break any rules.
Looks like you've been had mate
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Fey De'Way
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Posted - 2004.12.14 14:24:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Fey De'Way on 14/12/2004 14:26:32
I certainly hope Tornsoul from BIG can clear this up and do keep us posted. This reflects very badly on BIG otherwise.
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Fey De'Way
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Posted - 2004.12.14 14:24:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Fey De'Way on 14/12/2004 14:26:32
I certainly hope Tornsoul from BIG can clear this up and do keep us posted. This reflects very badly on BIG otherwise.
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Demitri Klashnikov
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Posted - 2004.12.14 23:44:00 -
[51]
Looks like a BIG con
sorry, just a bit of humour, hope it works out
-----------------------------------------------
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Demitri Klashnikov
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Posted - 2004.12.14 23:44:00 -
[52]
Looks like a BIG con
sorry, just a bit of humour, hope it works out
-----------------------------------------------
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bindy
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Posted - 2004.12.15 01:14:00 -
[53]
Same has happened to me, Sux for all of us. I wanna sell my 16 mil skill char for isk too and its gonna be hard to find people who will trust char sellers anymore :(. I understand scamming is allowed in eve but scamming things like this shouldnt be allowed imho.
But hey my opinion is nothing :P. Hope that you get your isk back mate.
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bindy
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Posted - 2004.12.15 01:14:00 -
[54]
Same has happened to me, Sux for all of us. I wanna sell my 16 mil skill char for isk too and its gonna be hard to find people who will trust char sellers anymore :(. I understand scamming is allowed in eve but scamming things like this shouldnt be allowed imho.
But hey my opinion is nothing :P. Hope that you get your isk back mate.
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Xtreem
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Posted - 2004.12.15 01:17:00 -
[55]
when scamming for a char, i think ccp should get involved, as its simple not fair.
i really hope things get sorted for u
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Xtreem
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Posted - 2004.12.15 01:17:00 -
[56]
when scamming for a char, i think ccp should get involved, as its simple not fair.
i really hope things get sorted for u
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Arkive
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Posted - 2004.12.15 02:41:00 -
[57]
I find it hard to believe that a corporation as large as BIG (no pun intended) would risk their reputation on a measly 750 mil. I know 750 mil is a LOT to individual players, but to a large corporation, it's peanuts. BIG would have to be insane not to pay Fret back the isk if this was indeed an inside scam where a BIG member (ex-BIG member after this I would assume) pulled the wool over their eyes.
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Arkive
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Posted - 2004.12.15 02:41:00 -
[58]
I find it hard to believe that a corporation as large as BIG (no pun intended) would risk their reputation on a measly 750 mil. I know 750 mil is a LOT to individual players, but to a large corporation, it's peanuts. BIG would have to be insane not to pay Fret back the isk if this was indeed an inside scam where a BIG member (ex-BIG member after this I would assume) pulled the wool over their eyes.
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Elenia Kheynes
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Posted - 2004.12.15 03:11:00 -
[59]
Now I understand why Tornsoul didn't want to get involved in this crap... 
Dear friendly customer... Can I have your money ?
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Elenia Kheynes
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Posted - 2004.12.15 03:11:00 -
[60]
Now I understand why Tornsoul didn't want to get involved in this crap...
Dear friendly customer... Can I have your money ?
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Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2004.12.15 05:15:00 -
[61]
Well what I have read here is
1. Don't trust any char sales no matter who is selling.
2. Never deal with Big.
Thanks for the info guys.
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Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2004.12.15 05:15:00 -
[62]
Well what I have read here is
1. Don't trust any char sales no matter who is selling.
2. Never deal with Big.
Thanks for the info guys.
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xOm3gAx
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 08:31:00 -
[63]
heh this really looks bad for you BIG and just think big even makes the actual eve-insider news... i see this changing in the future...
-----------------
*Decloaks and starts blasting your sig* Applesauce Biotch
~~~My Banner got nerfed~~~
But I still love the mods anyway
Succumb to your nightmares
Darkness shall embrace you |
xOm3gAx
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 08:31:00 -
[64]
heh this really looks bad for you BIG and just think big even makes the actual eve-insider news... i see this changing in the future...
-----------------
*Decloaks and starts blasting your sig* Applesauce Biotch
~~~My Banner got nerfed~~~
But I still love the mods anyway
Succumb to your nightmares
Darkness shall embrace you |
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 09:25:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Fret on 15/12/2004 09:28:59
Well almost a week and still no character....I am pretty sure that ive been had. I have spoken with Tornsoul and they are investigating the matter. Axee or Tion have yet to log on or respond to any of my attempts at communication.
All i wanted was to get a new character, not go through this horrible situation. The only reason i even took a look at this auction was because of the BIG name, I didnt even verify my bid until Tornsoul blessed the auction in this thread.
I have tremendous respect for the integrity BIG has shown in the past with its dealings, I hope it will continue here with this unfortunate situation. 750 million was most of my isk, took nearly a year and a half to save, im growing gray hairs just thinking about this...grrrr.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
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Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 09:25:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Fret on 15/12/2004 09:28:59
Well almost a week and still no character....I am pretty sure that ive been had. I have spoken with Tornsoul and they are investigating the matter. Axee or Tion have yet to log on or respond to any of my attempts at communication.
All i wanted was to get a new character, not go through this horrible situation. The only reason i even took a look at this auction was because of the BIG name, I didnt even verify my bid until Tornsoul blessed the auction in this thread.
I have tremendous respect for the integrity BIG has shown in the past with its dealings, I hope it will continue here with this unfortunate situation. 750 million was most of my isk, took nearly a year and a half to save, im growing gray hairs just thinking about this...grrrr.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
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Ground Beef
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 09:27:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Allen Deckard
1. Don't trust any char sales no matter who is selling.
This may very well be true. And it really is too bad that it has to be so. 
Originally by: Allen Deckard
2. Never deal with Big.
LOL, aparently some people are far too quick to judge.
Anyway, as stated previously it would be *insane* for a corp such as BIG to throw away its reputation on a measly 750 million isk. There is obviously something going on here that we just happen to be ignorant of. Hopefully soon those who DO know whats going on will reveal the truth to us. And when they do it, hopefully they do it with some real facts. (and a shred of proof even?)
My point is simply dont be so quick to jump to conclusions.
(there's a saying somewhere about "assuming" making you an A$$, it certainly looks true in this case...I mean no offense there however; simply aiding my point) 
|
Ground Beef
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Posted - 2004.12.15 09:27:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Allen Deckard
1. Don't trust any char sales no matter who is selling.
This may very well be true. And it really is too bad that it has to be so.
Originally by: Allen Deckard
2. Never deal with Big.
LOL, aparently some people are far too quick to judge.
Anyway, as stated previously it would be *insane* for a corp such as BIG to throw away its reputation on a measly 750 million isk. There is obviously something going on here that we just happen to be ignorant of. Hopefully soon those who DO know whats going on will reveal the truth to us. And when they do it, hopefully they do it with some real facts. (and a shred of proof even?)
My point is simply dont be so quick to jump to conclusions.
(there's a saying somewhere about "assuming" making you an A$$, it certainly looks true in this case...I mean no offense there however; simply aiding my point)
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Kipkruide
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 11:07:00 -
[69]
hmm will have to ask big about this, see if they kicked the member out at least
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Kipkruide
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 11:07:00 -
[70]
hmm will have to ask big about this, see if they kicked the member out at least
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Wodgah
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 13:30:00 -
[71]
I recently won an auction for a character for isk , we went through NAGA and more specifically freewheeling , took a day or 2 for everything to be sorted out but all went smoothly. I'd reccomend NAGA as middlemen to anyone wanting to do this kind of thing. BIG does have a good reputation but NAGA only has but a few members and a lot of people in eve know or have heard of freewheeling.
Good luck in retriving your character or isk
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Wodgah
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 13:30:00 -
[72]
I recently won an auction for a character for isk , we went through NAGA and more specifically freewheeling , took a day or 2 for everything to be sorted out but all went smoothly. I'd reccomend NAGA as middlemen to anyone wanting to do this kind of thing. BIG does have a good reputation but NAGA only has but a few members and a lot of people in eve know or have heard of freewheeling.
Good luck in retriving your character or isk
|
Allen Deckard
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 14:34:00 -
[73]
"LOL, aparently some people are far too quick to judge. "
Quite possibly you may be correct maybe my judgment is in haste.
BUT
How long does something need to go on before a judgment is made?
Where is a comment from BIG here? What is their stance? Looks to me as if they have abandoned the situation.
If you become a 3rd party moderator in any situation (especially rl) you are responsible for that situation.
You ever hire a general contractor to work on your house? You realize that contractor rarely does the work on your house they get a third party? The contractor is the middle man. Who do you go to if the work is shabby? The contractor.
Sorry but without a comment from BIG my first statements hold. A week is a very long time for no comment.
|
Allen Deckard
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 14:34:00 -
[74]
"LOL, aparently some people are far too quick to judge. "
Quite possibly you may be correct maybe my judgment is in haste.
BUT
How long does something need to go on before a judgment is made?
Where is a comment from BIG here? What is their stance? Looks to me as if they have abandoned the situation.
If you become a 3rd party moderator in any situation (especially rl) you are responsible for that situation.
You ever hire a general contractor to work on your house? You realize that contractor rarely does the work on your house they get a third party? The contractor is the middle man. Who do you go to if the work is shabby? The contractor.
Sorry but without a comment from BIG my first statements hold. A week is a very long time for no comment.
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 15:22:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Fret on 15/12/2004 15:25:07
UPDATE ON BIG "INVESTIGATION":
I spoke with TornSoul again today, I must admit that after all of the cooperation I have shown I am being kept in the dark about the status of thier investigation.
I have allowed TornSoul herself log into my account two separate times to investigate the isk transfer for the character and any other info that may be pertanant to thier investigation. I have emailed TornSoul all of the chat logs containing all conversations and even the actual deal taking place in the BIG channel. I have been as forthcoming with BIG as possible about this and I feel as if im being treated as the scammer in all of this.
Evidently TornSoul has spoken with Tion since this deal.... My first question to TornSoul was that if she spoke with him...where is my 750 million isk? Her responce was that she is still gathering the facts. I understand that to a point...but what more does one need to see that I have been robed. There is no 12.9 million sp character, TornSoul knows exactly what took place in the transaction...she has seen my financial records in my account, she has seen the chat logs.
I still give BIG the bennefit of the doubt in all of this for now, that is until the final report is released my BIG in the forums tonight.
Personaly it seems to me as if BIG is more worried about preserving thier reputation in all of this than helping the true victim in all of this, though 750 million may not be much to the BIG empire, it sure is to me. I challenge all who care to please keep an eye on the outcome to all of this... Let us all see how big BIG really is.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 15:22:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Fret on 15/12/2004 15:25:07
UPDATE ON BIG "INVESTIGATION":
I spoke with TornSoul again today, I must admit that after all of the cooperation I have shown I am being kept in the dark about the status of thier investigation.
I have allowed TornSoul herself log into my account two separate times to investigate the isk transfer for the character and any other info that may be pertanant to thier investigation. I have emailed TornSoul all of the chat logs containing all conversations and even the actual deal taking place in the BIG channel. I have been as forthcoming with BIG as possible about this and I feel as if im being treated as the scammer in all of this.
Evidently TornSoul has spoken with Tion since this deal.... My first question to TornSoul was that if she spoke with him...where is my 750 million isk? Her responce was that she is still gathering the facts. I understand that to a point...but what more does one need to see that I have been robed. There is no 12.9 million sp character, TornSoul knows exactly what took place in the transaction...she has seen my financial records in my account, she has seen the chat logs.
I still give BIG the bennefit of the doubt in all of this for now, that is until the final report is released my BIG in the forums tonight.
Personaly it seems to me as if BIG is more worried about preserving thier reputation in all of this than helping the true victim in all of this, though 750 million may not be much to the BIG empire, it sure is to me. I challenge all who care to please keep an eye on the outcome to all of this... Let us all see how big BIG really is.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Pandora Panda
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 16:30:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Fret
I have allowed TornSoul herself log into my account two separate times to investigate the isk transfer for the character and any other info that may be pertanant to thier investigation.
Change your password. Immeditely.
--------------------------------------------
CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
Pandora Panda
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 16:30:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Fret
I have allowed TornSoul herself log into my account two separate times to investigate the isk transfer for the character and any other info that may be pertanant to thier investigation.
Change your password. Immeditely.
--------------------------------------------
CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
XeroBeagle
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 16:41:00 -
[79]
Edited by: XeroBeagle on 15/12/2004 16:41:19
seems wierd how he always blanked out the name of the Character, Gd luck to getting you isk back tho
|
XeroBeagle
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 16:41:00 -
[80]
Edited by: XeroBeagle on 15/12/2004 16:41:19
seems wierd how he always blanked out the name of the Character, Gd luck to getting you isk back tho
|
ddss
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 18:09:00 -
[81]
BIG, the scammer corp....nice work guys, u really did all that work (getting that reputation) for louzy 750m ?
Gl on your next "big" lottery, I guess it wount be that big.
|
ddss
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 18:09:00 -
[82]
BIG, the scammer corp....nice work guys, u really did all that work (getting that reputation) for louzy 750m ?
Gl on your next "big" lottery, I guess it wount be that big.
|
Setrak
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 18:39:00 -
[83]
LMAO, now thats an UBER scam, lets hear it for BIG, the BIG SCAMMERS. LMAO
|
Setrak
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 18:39:00 -
[84]
LMAO, now thats an UBER scam, lets hear it for BIG, the BIG SCAMMERS. LMAO
|
psychonaut
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 18:43:00 -
[85]
Should I mention the BIG lottery mess a while back?
oops just did doh!
|
psychonaut
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 18:43:00 -
[86]
Should I mention the BIG lottery mess a while back?
oops just did doh!
|
Icomeinpeace
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 19:36:00 -
[87]
Hmmm wierd.
Just reading this thread and it seems to me that Axee and Tion type VERY SIMILAR.
Note the bad English.The same person maybe?
Either way scamming sucks and if this person scams this forward I would not doubt they are doing many other dubious things.
CCP should definately protect their honest customers by investigating these matters...
It's bs.
|
Icomeinpeace
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 19:36:00 -
[88]
Hmmm wierd.
Just reading this thread and it seems to me that Axee and Tion type VERY SIMILAR.
Note the bad English.The same person maybe?
Either way scamming sucks and if this person scams this forward I would not doubt they are doing many other dubious things.
CCP should definately protect their honest customers by investigating these matters...
It's bs.
|
TornSoul
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 19:43:00 -
[89]
Edited by: TornSoul on 15/12/2004 19:42:59
Lean back - Break out the popcorns, this is going to be one long read, but I guarantee it will be entertaining.
As posted earlier in this thread BIG as a corp do not want to have anything to do with char transfers for various reasons (Someone else posted that NAGA seems very keen on it - So please, *do* contact *them* instead of BIG if that rocks their boat)
Prior to this incident we did not have a 'rule' in BIG about this as such - We do now however.
Quote:
Tion > Well He's a friend of my friend. (RL)
Tion > Other wise I'd never have agreed to this
Tion > I got into a LOT of trouble
Tion > for agreeing to do it in the first place.
(We did give Tion a bit of a hard time I'm afraid - Raised fingers, and lessons lectured. You get the picture)
Unfortunatly Tion had already promised his friend (of a friend) that he would do him a favor and act as a neutral 3rd party to help him transfer his char. Relying on the good name and rep of BIG to instill confidence in the buyer that he would not get scammed.
In BIG we are BIG on sticking to our word - Always.
So I allowed Tion to go ahead with the deal, so he could make good on his word to his friend (of a friend)
----
The day of the transfer
All the actors are in place
Tion : Neutral 3rd party
Fret : The buyer
Axee : The seller
Location:
The ingame BIG channel.
Scene:
Character transfer
All the actors performs their roles - Except, theres a slight hitch.
Theres apparently a 4th player, who hasnt read the script : CCP
Quote:
Axee > Alright, sent. it says. may take up to 24 hours.
Whats this! A delay!!
That was not in the script...
Quote:
Fret > i have transfered characters many times....i have never recieved a wait, it is usualy instant
The actors have to improvise
Quote:
Tion > I'll hold the isk for 24 Hours would that be ok?
Fret > sure
The waiting game begins
Patience grows thin
Quote:
Posted - 2004.12.12 13:11:00
After paying the 750 million isk I still have not recieved the character. Axee told me that upon the transfer he was notified there would be a 24 hour wait.... well 38 hours latter and 2 server re-boots latter I am a bit worried.
But nerves are still in order
Quote:
Posted - 2004.12.12 13:11:00
Being that this auction was sanctioned by a BIG member, and verified by the BIG CEO herself, i rest assured that this will all fall into place.
<snip>
I am grateful that at least this time BIG has played the middle man in my transaction. With millions of isk at stake here the only comfort I have is that BIG is the medium.
The waiting games continues
Still no news....
Quote:
Posted - 2004.12.13 12:59:00
I appeal to Axee and Tion to reply to this thread, it seems after the isk was transfered all has gone quiet.
Time to break out the BIG guns
Quote:
Posted - 2004.12.13 12:59:00
I have mailed TornSoul the CEO of BIG and appealed for her help and support in the matter.
Nerves still in order!
Quote:
Posted - 2004.12.13 12:59:00
I have all confidence that BIG will make this right.
And theres even some re-assuring words from the audience
Quote:
Posted - 2004.12.15 02:41:00
I find it hard to believe that a corporation as large as BIG (no pun intended) would risk their reputation on a measly 750 mil. I know 750 mil is a LOT to individual players, but to a large corporation, it's peanuts. BIG would have to be insane not to pay Fret back the isk if this was indeed an inside scam where a BIG member (ex-BIG member after this I would assume) pulled the wool over their eyes.
And some not so re-assuring ones
Quote:
Posted - 2004.12.15 05:15:00 - Quote
Well what I have read here is
1. Don't trust any char sales no matter who is selling.
2. Never deal with Big.
Thanks for the info guys.
The waiting game starts to take it's toll - And even distorts time
Quote:
Posted - 2004.12.15 09:25:00
Well almost a week and still no character....I am pretty sure that ive been had.
(Editors note : It's been 4 days)
Even the audience now demands that the play comes to and end!
TornSoul
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 19:43:00 -
[90]
Edited by: TornSoul on 15/12/2004 19:49:05
Interlude
As with all plays, what goes on on the stage, is but a fraction of all the work that truly goes on.
Back stage is often (if not more) as frantic as out in the spotlight.
BIG has been quiet for several days - Are they doing nothing? Have they 'left the building'?
No - BIG has been busy back stage, trying to get the play back on course (remember that pesky improvisation at the beginning)
Far far too busy to also take center stage in the spotlight - The supporting characters are doing the job so wonderfully anyhow.
So what *has* BIG been doing?
BIG has been busy collecting info, conducting interviews, reviewing the play as performed so far, working it all - To try and get the script to match with what has been performed on the stage.
----------------------------------------
The end game - The investigation
Firstly I would like to thank Fret for beeing *most* forthcomming in the investigation of this whole thing.
It would have been impossible to come to the bottom of this without her gracious help (and yes we did come to the bottom of it).
As I personally have not been on centerstage, trying to piece together what really happened has only been possible through the recordings of the events as they took place - Kindly forwarded to me by Fret.
Let's play back some of these events.
Recording #1
Quote:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Channel ID: 2100001042
Channel Name: big
Listener: Fret
Session started: 2004.12.11 03:54:05
---------------------------------------------------------------
<snip>
Fret > ok i will transfer the isk to you...have u already verified the character?
Tion > yup
Fret > sent
Tion > ok Axee send the char :)
Axee > Alright, can you tell me the account anme again? thanks.
Fret > <accountname removed>
Axee > Alright, sent. it says. may take up to 24 hours.
Fret > hmmm i wonder why
Axee > i dunno its not me working it. i gtg now sorry. hopefully it will not take 24 hours.
Fret > lol
Tion > I'll hold the isk for 24 Hours would that be ok?
Fret > sure
Fret > ill log and check
Tion > ok thanks
---------------------------------------------------------------
Channel ID: 2100001042
Channel Name: big
Listener: Fret
Session started: 2004.12.11 04:08:35
---------------------------------------------------------------
Tion > sorry crashed
Tion > Just eve mail me if it doesn't come I'll send your ISK back. I'm working nights right now and Someimes I'm to tired to get on.
Fret > no i didnt recieve it yet
Fret > i dont like the way he loged either
Fret > thats not good business
Fret > even if he is genuine it still looks bad
Tion > yes it does.
Tion > We'll wait and see
Fret > indeed
Fret > do u know him?
Tion > Well He's a friend of my friend. (RL)
Tion > Other wise I'd never have agreed to this
Tion > I got into a LOT of trouble
Tion > for agreeing to do it in the first place.
Fret > well i trust you only because u are a member of BIG, i hope your friend would not try to cheat me
Tion > I hope so too Or I'm going to get one hell of a spanking from TornSoul
Fret > well he is your rl friend so lets hope not
Fret > if i dont have the character by next server reboot, ill be contacting tornsoul
Tion > eve mail me and I'll send you your ISK back :)
Fret > i have transfered characters many times....i have never recieved a wait, it is usualy instant
Tion > I do not know because I've never done it that is starnge for sure
Fret > but hopefuly i get the char...after all thts what i want the most
Fret > ty for your help sir, i have to go to lunch
Fret > ill be in touch
Tion > yes it's a nice char
Tion > ok enjoy your lunch
|
|
TornSoul
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 19:43:00 -
[91]
Edited by: TornSoul on 15/12/2004 19:42:59
Lean back - Break out the popcorns, this is going to be one long read, but I guarantee it will be entertaining.
As posted earlier in this thread BIG as a corp do not want to have anything to do with char transfers for various reasons (Someone else posted that NAGA seems very keen on it - So please, *do* contact *them* instead of BIG if that rocks their boat)
Prior to this incident we did not have a 'rule' in BIG about this as such - We do now however.
Quote:
Tion > Well He's a friend of my friend. (RL)
Tion > Other wise I'd never have agreed to this
Tion > I got into a LOT of trouble
Tion > for agreeing to do it in the first place.
(We did give Tion a bit of a hard time I'm afraid - Raised fingers, and lessons lectured. You get the picture)
Unfortunatly Tion had already promised his friend (of a friend) that he would do him a favor and act as a neutral 3rd party to help him transfer his char. Relying on the good name and rep of BIG to instill confidence in the buyer that he would not get scammed.
In BIG we are BIG on sticking to our word - Always.
So I allowed Tion to go ahead with the deal, so he could make good on his word to his friend (of a friend)
----
The day of the transfer
All the actors are in place
Tion : Neutral 3rd party
Fret : The buyer
Axee : The seller
Location:
The ingame BIG channel.
Scene:
Character transfer
All the actors performs their roles - Except, theres a slight hitch.
Theres apparently a 4th player, who hasnt read the script : CCP
Quote:
Axee > Alright, sent. it says. may take up to 24 hours.
Whats this! A delay!!
That was not in the script...
Quote:
Fret > i have transfered characters many times....i have never recieved a wait, it is usualy instant
The actors have to improvise
Quote:
Tion > I'll hold the isk for 24 Hours would that be ok?
Fret > sure
The waiting game begins
Patience grows thin
Quote:
Posted - 2004.12.12 13:11:00
After paying the 750 million isk I still have not recieved the character. Axee told me that upon the transfer he was notified there would be a 24 hour wait.... well 38 hours latter and 2 server re-boots latter I am a bit worried.
But nerves are still in order
Quote:
Posted - 2004.12.12 13:11:00
Being that this auction was sanctioned by a BIG member, and verified by the BIG CEO herself, i rest assured that this will all fall into place.
<snip>
I am grateful that at least this time BIG has played the middle man in my transaction. With millions of isk at stake here the only comfort I have is that BIG is the medium.
The waiting games continues
Still no news....
Quote:
Posted - 2004.12.13 12:59:00
I appeal to Axee and Tion to reply to this thread, it seems after the isk was transfered all has gone quiet.
Time to break out the BIG guns
Quote:
Posted - 2004.12.13 12:59:00
I have mailed TornSoul the CEO of BIG and appealed for her help and support in the matter.
Nerves still in order!
Quote:
Posted - 2004.12.13 12:59:00
I have all confidence that BIG will make this right.
And theres even some re-assuring words from the audience
Quote:
Posted - 2004.12.15 02:41:00
I find it hard to believe that a corporation as large as BIG (no pun intended) would risk their reputation on a measly 750 mil. I know 750 mil is a LOT to individual players, but to a large corporation, it's peanuts. BIG would have to be insane not to pay Fret back the isk if this was indeed an inside scam where a BIG member (ex-BIG member after this I would assume) pulled the wool over their eyes.
And some not so re-assuring ones
Quote:
Posted - 2004.12.15 05:15:00 - Quote
Well what I have read here is
1. Don't trust any char sales no matter who is selling.
2. Never deal with Big.
Thanks for the info guys.
The waiting game starts to take it's toll - And even distorts time
Quote:
Posted - 2004.12.15 09:25:00
Well almost a week and still no character....I am pretty sure that ive been had.
(Editors note : It's been 4 days)
Even the audience now demands that the play comes to and end!
TornSoul
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 19:43:00 -
[92]
Edited by: TornSoul on 15/12/2004 19:49:05
Interlude
As with all plays, what goes on on the stage, is but a fraction of all the work that truly goes on.
Back stage is often (if not more) as frantic as out in the spotlight.
BIG has been quiet for several days - Are they doing nothing? Have they 'left the building'?
No - BIG has been busy back stage, trying to get the play back on course (remember that pesky improvisation at the beginning)
Far far too busy to also take center stage in the spotlight - The supporting characters are doing the job so wonderfully anyhow.
So what *has* BIG been doing?
BIG has been busy collecting info, conducting interviews, reviewing the play as performed so far, working it all - To try and get the script to match with what has been performed on the stage.
----------------------------------------
The end game - The investigation
Firstly I would like to thank Fret for beeing *most* forthcomming in the investigation of this whole thing.
It would have been impossible to come to the bottom of this without her gracious help (and yes we did come to the bottom of it).
As I personally have not been on centerstage, trying to piece together what really happened has only been possible through the recordings of the events as they took place - Kindly forwarded to me by Fret.
Let's play back some of these events.
Recording #1
Quote:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Channel ID: 2100001042
Channel Name: big
Listener: Fret
Session started: 2004.12.11 03:54:05
---------------------------------------------------------------
<snip>
Fret > ok i will transfer the isk to you...have u already verified the character?
Tion > yup
Fret > sent
Tion > ok Axee send the char :)
Axee > Alright, can you tell me the account anme again? thanks.
Fret > <accountname removed>
Axee > Alright, sent. it says. may take up to 24 hours.
Fret > hmmm i wonder why
Axee > i dunno its not me working it. i gtg now sorry. hopefully it will not take 24 hours.
Fret > lol
Tion > I'll hold the isk for 24 Hours would that be ok?
Fret > sure
Fret > ill log and check
Tion > ok thanks
---------------------------------------------------------------
Channel ID: 2100001042
Channel Name: big
Listener: Fret
Session started: 2004.12.11 04:08:35
---------------------------------------------------------------
Tion > sorry crashed
Tion > Just eve mail me if it doesn't come I'll send your ISK back. I'm working nights right now and Someimes I'm to tired to get on.
Fret > no i didnt recieve it yet
Fret > i dont like the way he loged either
Fret > thats not good business
Fret > even if he is genuine it still looks bad
Tion > yes it does.
Tion > We'll wait and see
Fret > indeed
Fret > do u know him?
Tion > Well He's a friend of my friend. (RL)
Tion > Other wise I'd never have agreed to this
Tion > I got into a LOT of trouble
Tion > for agreeing to do it in the first place.
Fret > well i trust you only because u are a member of BIG, i hope your friend would not try to cheat me
Tion > I hope so too Or I'm going to get one hell of a spanking from TornSoul
Fret > well he is your rl friend so lets hope not
Fret > if i dont have the character by next server reboot, ill be contacting tornsoul
Tion > eve mail me and I'll send you your ISK back :)
Fret > i have transfered characters many times....i have never recieved a wait, it is usualy instant
Tion > I do not know because I've never done it that is starnge for sure
Fret > but hopefuly i get the char...after all thts what i want the most
Fret > ty for your help sir, i have to go to lunch
Fret > ill be in touch
Tion > yes it's a nice char
Tion > ok enjoy your lunch
|
|
TornSoul
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 19:44:00 -
[93]
Edited by: TornSoul on 15/12/2004 19:51:53
Ok this all seems to be what we already know.
But wait!
Theres this
Recording #2
Tions Wallet
Didnt Tion say he would hold the ISK for 24 hours!!!
And yet he went on and wired the ISK to Axee shortly after....
Surely this can not be a good sign...
Why would Tion wire the ISK to Axee already...
Well lets take a closer look at recording #2, and lets zoom out a bit this time
Recording #2 - Wide shot
Tions Wallet - Wide shot
Whats that in the background, to the left.
Aha, It would seem recording #1 and recording #2 overlaps - Some of the same action have been cought in both recordings.
But wait... whats this...
There seems to be some irregularities - The recordings does not match up.
Please take a closer look at the hightlighted text from recording #1, and especially the underlined part and compare it to the wide shot of recording #2.
It would seem that the recordings that Fret so graciously have provided, have been tampered with!!!
The underlined (and tampered with) part of recording #1 originally said
Quote:
Fret > Ya i got the charecter, se(nd the ISK)
Aha!!! This would explain the unexpected behaviour, of Tion not holding on to the ISK for 24 hours!!!
Fret *did* get the character!!!.
---------------------------------------
BIG Lottery
[u |
TornSoul
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 19:44:00 -
[94]
Edited by: TornSoul on 15/12/2004 19:51:53
Ok this all seems to be what we already know.
But wait!
Theres this
Recording #2
Tions Wallet
Didnt Tion say he would hold the ISK for 24 hours!!!
And yet he went on and wired the ISK to Axee shortly after....
Surely this can not be a good sign...
Why would Tion wire the ISK to Axee already...
Well lets take a closer look at recording #2, and lets zoom out a bit this time
Recording #2 - Wide shot
Tions Wallet - Wide shot
Whats that in the background, to the left.
Aha, It would seem recording #1 and recording #2 overlaps - Some of the same action have been cought in both recordings.
But wait... whats this...
There seems to be some irregularities - The recordings does not match up.
Please take a closer look at the hightlighted text from recording #1, and especially the underlined part and compare it to the wide shot of recording #2.
It would seem that the recordings that Fret so graciously have provided, have been tampered with!!!
The underlined (and tampered with) part of recording #1 originally said
Quote:
Fret > Ya i got the charecter, se(nd the ISK)
Aha!!! This would explain the unexpected behaviour, of Tion not holding on to the ISK for 24 hours!!!
Fret *did* get the character!!!.
---------------------------------------
BIG Lottery
[u |
TornSoul
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 19:44:00 -
[95]
Epilogue
Lets take a closer look at Fret
Quote:
shambley > looking for a char without that -7.8 standings yes :-)
Fret > :()
Fret > ive been a bad girl
Quote:
TornSoul > q : who's <name removed - Char does no longer exist btw>....
Fret > used to be my xtra char to transprt...as u know my sec rating sucks
Fret > one reason why i want a new char
TornSoul > what the name of the char youre buynig?
Fret > never found out
TornSoul > huh?
Fret > as soon as i transfeerd the isk...axee loged off
Fret > Tion said not to worry because axee is h9is rl friend
TornSoul > So let me get this right... you cant get into empir becuase of your bad stanidng n this char - yet you buy a char without knwong the name of it so you can check if it too shoudlhav a bad sec rating?
Now - the funny thing is that a link to a screenshot of the char was posted - showing it had a 0.0 sec rating.
Something Fret seems completly oblivious to, even though she explicitly states thats why she wants a new char.
She wants a new char becuase her sec rating prevents her from getting into empire - Yet she has no clue what the sec rate of the new char is....
hmmm...
Maybe because the char is not her real focus.
What could it then be?
Lets look at events in that light once more.
Maybe Fret wants to 'exploit' the fact that BIG has a good name an reputation? (read on)
The seller names BIG already in the very first post.
Maybe this is what gave Fret the idea,
The plan is near fool-proof. Who would *ever* expect the *buyer* to be the scammer??? Thats not been done before, what would a buyer stand to gain by that anyhow.
Well, in this case quite alot actually.
Now, I do not know if Fret has any particular dislike for BIG or not, but she is surely aware of the reputation that BIG has of beeing an honest and upstanding corporation, that would not like to have it's name tainted.
It's perfect.
BIG would ofc go to *great* lenght to protect it's good name - and BIG is even rumored to have more ISK than theres Veldspar.
BIG would probably simply pay out the pesky 750M ISK, just to keep the BIG name in the clear, should the deal somehow go wrong.
BIG might even sacrifice one of it's employees as well in case of uncertainty about who scammed who.
And who would ever suspect the *buyer* - The one, who at the surface, has most to loose.
BIG Lottery
[u |
TornSoul
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 19:44:00 -
[96]
Epilogue
Lets take a closer look at Fret
Quote:
shambley > looking for a char without that -7.8 standings yes :-)
Fret > :()
Fret > ive been a bad girl
Quote:
TornSoul > q : who's <name removed - Char does no longer exist btw>....
Fret > used to be my xtra char to transprt...as u know my sec rating sucks
Fret > one reason why i want a new char
TornSoul > what the name of the char youre buynig?
Fret > never found out
TornSoul > huh?
Fret > as soon as i transfeerd the isk...axee loged off
Fret > Tion said not to worry because axee is h9is rl friend
TornSoul > So let me get this right... you cant get into empir becuase of your bad stanidng n this char - yet you buy a char without knwong the name of it so you can check if it too shoudlhav a bad sec rating?
Now - the funny thing is that a link to a screenshot of the char was posted - showing it had a 0.0 sec rating.
Something Fret seems completly oblivious to, even though she explicitly states thats why she wants a new char.
She wants a new char becuase her sec rating prevents her from getting into empire - Yet she has no clue what the sec rate of the new char is....
hmmm...
Maybe because the char is not her real focus.
What could it then be?
Lets look at events in that light once more.
Maybe Fret wants to 'exploit' the fact that BIG has a good name an reputation? (read on)
The seller names BIG already in the very first post.
Maybe this is what gave Fret the idea,
The plan is near fool-proof. Who would *ever* expect the *buyer* to be the scammer??? Thats not been done before, what would a buyer stand to gain by that anyhow.
Well, in this case quite alot actually.
Now, I do not know if Fret has any particular dislike for BIG or not, but she is surely aware of the reputation that BIG has of beeing an honest and upstanding corporation, that would not like to have it's name tainted.
It's perfect.
BIG would ofc go to *great* lenght to protect it's good name - and BIG is even rumored to have more ISK than theres Veldspar.
BIG would probably simply pay out the pesky 750M ISK, just to keep the BIG name in the clear, should the deal somehow go wrong.
BIG might even sacrifice one of it's employees as well in case of uncertainty about who scammed who.
And who would ever suspect the *buyer* - The one, who at the surface, has most to loose.
BIG Lottery
[u |
TornSoul
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 19:45:00 -
[97]
The plan is set into motion.
Bid, and preferbly bid *high* on the character (BIG, not Fret, is going to pay afterall) to make sure to win the auction.
Do the transfer (what can go wrong there, BIG is acting as 3rd party), recieve the character.
and then!
Claim not to have gotten the character.
Knowing how much BIG cares about it's good name and reputation, BIG would have no choice but to pay back the 750M ISK, to be sure that noone would doubt that.
End result : Fret would get a char for free - Paid for by BIG.
Back to earth
Well, even the best plans need a master to execute them for them to work.
Fret is no such master.
Make no mistake however - Fret is *good*, very good even.
Why do I say this?
Well, we all know just how easy it is to alter chatlogs. Fret surely knew - As thats excactly what she did.
So how to make sure I would never doubt those logs?
By playing an idiot. A computer idiot in this case. Someone not even *able* to find the chatlogs on their own.
Quote:
TornSoul > coudl you get me those logs?
Fret > what logs?
<snip>
Fret > how do i do that?
Fret > i dont mind
TornSoul > logs of the convos youve had with tion and/or axee
TornSoul > as I said..
TornSoul > dunno what im looking for
TornSoul > just want to see if they say something 'odd'
Fret > how do i view my logs?
<snip>
Fret > ok where exactly do i need to search for this file?
TornSoul > evefolder\capture\chatlogs
Fret > i put that in my serch
TornSoul > browse to where youre EVE game is installed
TornSoul > c:\games\eve or whatever...
Fret > ok searching again
Fret > sorry im not computer savy
<snip>
Fret > lol well as soon as i find it ill send it to you in its entirety
TornSoul > goto your evefolder
TornSoul > find the folder called capture
TornSoul > go into that folder
TornSoul > in there is another folder
TornSoul > chatlogs
TornSoul > go into that folder
TornSoul > there shoudl eb aTON of files there
Fret > ok im sorting through it all
TornSoul > have you foudn it?
Fret > ok how do i send all of this to you?
TornSoul > have you foudn it?
Fret > yes
TornSoul > ok
BIG Lottery
[u |
TornSoul
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 19:45:00 -
[98]
Damn niece piece of 'social engeneering', making sure I would not even consider that the logs would have been tampered with.
Now Fret might have suspected I'd have those logs already, but when (not if!) they didnt match she could always claim that *I* had changed them.
What she could not know was, that by pure chance we had a screenshot of the convo as well.
Tion made that screenshot to document his wallet (ie. that he had gotten the ISK and then transfered it on to Axee), the convo got captured completely by accident :) - which should be obvious by the fact it's partly obstructed. (Tion has added the red circles/lines)
Also look at her last post in this thread - Look how the tone has suddenly changed, she is directly aiming at the BIG name and reputation.
Mind you - She made that post *minutes* after I logged out of the game (we where in convo). I did not in that convo give any indication of what I intended to do or not.
Now why could she not wait but a few minutes to make that post, when I had just told her I would make a final post to the thread to end the whole matter a few horus later, when I had the time to make it.
No - She had to get there first - With the attack on the BIG name and reputation, one last try to try and convince me to simply pay out the 750M ISK - To save the BIG name, wich she just violently attacked and challenged.
To Fret: Well played.
I'm sure this is not the first time for you. (You have by your own admission made alot of char transfers, and seems to know they happen instantly).
I wonder how many other victims you've sunk your teeths into.
This bite however was too BIG for you to chew on.
Close - But no cigar.
---------
Curtains close
Hope you all enjoyed the show.
BIG Lottery
[u |
TornSoul
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 19:45:00 -
[99]
The plan is set into motion.
Bid, and preferbly bid *high* on the character (BIG, not Fret, is going to pay afterall) to make sure to win the auction.
Do the transfer (what can go wrong there, BIG is acting as 3rd party), recieve the character.
and then!
Claim not to have gotten the character.
Knowing how much BIG cares about it's good name and reputation, BIG would have no choice but to pay back the 750M ISK, to be sure that noone would doubt that.
End result : Fret would get a char for free - Paid for by BIG.
Back to earth
Well, even the best plans need a master to execute them for them to work.
Fret is no such master.
Make no mistake however - Fret is *good*, very good even.
Why do I say this?
Well, we all know just how easy it is to alter chatlogs. Fret surely knew - As thats excactly what she did.
So how to make sure I would never doubt those logs?
By playing an idiot. A computer idiot in this case. Someone not even *able* to find the chatlogs on their own.
Quote:
TornSoul > coudl you get me those logs?
Fret > what logs?
<snip>
Fret > how do i do that?
Fret > i dont mind
TornSoul > logs of the convos youve had with tion and/or axee
TornSoul > as I said..
TornSoul > dunno what im looking for
TornSoul > just want to see if they say something 'odd'
Fret > how do i view my logs?
<snip>
Fret > ok where exactly do i need to search for this file?
TornSoul > evefolder\capture\chatlogs
Fret > i put that in my serch
TornSoul > browse to where youre EVE game is installed
TornSoul > c:\games\eve or whatever...
Fret > ok searching again
Fret > sorry im not computer savy
<snip>
Fret > lol well as soon as i find it ill send it to you in its entirety
TornSoul > goto your evefolder
TornSoul > find the folder called capture
TornSoul > go into that folder
TornSoul > in there is another folder
TornSoul > chatlogs
TornSoul > go into that folder
TornSoul > there shoudl eb aTON of files there
Fret > ok im sorting through it all
TornSoul > have you foudn it?
Fret > ok how do i send all of this to you?
TornSoul > have you foudn it?
Fret > yes
TornSoul > ok
BIG Lottery
[u |
TornSoul
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 19:45:00 -
[100]
Damn niece piece of 'social engeneering', making sure I would not even consider that the logs would have been tampered with.
Now Fret might have suspected I'd have those logs already, but when (not if!) they didnt match she could always claim that *I* had changed them.
What she could not know was, that by pure chance we had a screenshot of the convo as well.
Tion made that screenshot to document his wallet (ie. that he had gotten the ISK and then transfered it on to Axee), the convo got captured completely by accident :) - which should be obvious by the fact it's partly obstructed. (Tion has added the red circles/lines)
Also look at her last post in this thread - Look how the tone has suddenly changed, she is directly aiming at the BIG name and reputation.
Mind you - She made that post *minutes* after I logged out of the game (we where in convo). I did not in that convo give any indication of what I intended to do or not.
Now why could she not wait but a few minutes to make that post, when I had just told her I would make a final post to the thread to end the whole matter a few horus later, when I had the time to make it.
No - She had to get there first - With the attack on the BIG name and reputation, one last try to try and convince me to simply pay out the 750M ISK - To save the BIG name, wich she just violently attacked and challenged.
To Fret: Well played.
I'm sure this is not the first time for you. (You have by your own admission made alot of char transfers, and seems to know they happen instantly).
I wonder how many other victims you've sunk your teeths into.
This bite however was too BIG for you to chew on.
Close - But no cigar.
---------
Curtains close
Hope you all enjoyed the show.
BIG Lottery
[u |
Setrak
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 19:59:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Setrak on 15/12/2004 20:00:09
Those links to the wallet jpgs arent working.
|
Setrak
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 19:59:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Setrak on 15/12/2004 20:00:09
Those links to the wallet jpgs arent working.
|
Amthrianius
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 20:00:00 -
[103]
Fret just got wtfpwnz0red
Nice reading Tornsoul :)
---------------
|
Amthrianius
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 20:00:00 -
[104]
Fret just got wtfpwnz0red
Nice reading Tornsoul :)
---------------
|
Gavin Kineli
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 20:03:00 -
[105]
If you can't see the wallet images, here's a mirror.
Wallet
Wallet Wideshot
Play The BIG Lottery! |
Gavin Kineli
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 20:03:00 -
[106]
If you can't see the wallet images, here's a mirror.
Wallet
Wallet Wideshot
Play The BIG Lottery! |
Lyana
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 20:06:00 -
[107]
Maaann, this is the best stuff ive read in a long time!
The links to Tion's wallet dont seem to work tho, so if you could fix that plz, i'd like to see them.
Very nicely conducted investigation Tornsoul! You could take on Columbo himself
Like others have said to Fret: Total OwnAgE! lol
|
Lyana
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 20:06:00 -
[108]
Maaann, this is the best stuff ive read in a long time!
The links to Tion's wallet dont seem to work tho, so if you could fix that plz, i'd like to see them.
Very nicely conducted investigation Tornsoul! You could take on Columbo himself
Like others have said to Fret: Total OwnAgE! lol
|
Icomeinpeace
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 20:08:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Icomeinpeace on 15/12/2004 20:08:46
Omfg it was Fret, in the chatlog, with the character.To think I had thought it was professor plum, in the library with the wrench.
Anyhow GG Torn, looks like you solved the BIG clue.
Ahh yes that was fun.
|
Icomeinpeace
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 20:08:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Icomeinpeace on 15/12/2004 20:08:46
Omfg it was Fret, in the chatlog, with the character.To think I had thought it was professor plum, in the library with the wrench.
Anyhow GG Torn, looks like you solved the BIG clue.
Ahh yes that was fun.
|
nashi
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 20:15:00 -
[111]
Edited by: nashi on 15/12/2004 20:16:41
Fret o.O
|
nashi
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 20:15:00 -
[112]
Edited by: nashi on 15/12/2004 20:16:41
Fret o.O
|
Xtreem
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 20:19:00 -
[113]
excellent investigation work!
Glad BIG's tame has not been dragged though the mud, and i doubt anyone will try that again!
GJ
|
Xtreem
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 20:19:00 -
[114]
excellent investigation work!
Glad BIG's tame has not been dragged though the mud, and i doubt anyone will try that again!
GJ
|
Dink Rainer
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 20:46:00 -
[115]
lol what people isnt prepared to do for 750m isk
Good to know BIG got cleared, i got to admit, F. had me
believing in her, thinking BIG was the baddie. :-(
Keep up the good work BIG
|
Dink Rainer
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 20:46:00 -
[116]
lol what people isnt prepared to do for 750m isk
Good to know BIG got cleared, i got to admit, F. had me
believing in her, thinking BIG was the baddie. :-(
Keep up the good work BIG
|
Tion
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 21:37:00 -
[117]
I'm very sad this turned out the way it did, a simple favor some how managed to get me into a heap of trouble, and didn't really earn me any brownie points for sure. That said there was some nail biting on my part Thought for sure I was going to get the axe for this.
Luckily for me TornSoul lets the facts speak for them selves.
To those nay Sayers that accused me of scamming.   . I do not scam, cheat or steal. These morals are NOT something promoted by BIG. I have a clean name and I for one would like to keep it that way... thanks.
The one thing that bothered me most about all of this though:
Originally by: psychonaut
Should I mention the BIG lottery mess a while back?
oops just did doh!
Now why out off all the things happening would this bother me? Because the BIG lotto is something done for the COMUNITY by BIG, and mostly (if not all) by TornSoul. It's been said many times and I'll say it again.
BIG MAKES NO ISK OFF THE LOTTO.
It's completely PR related. Hours of work put in By TornSoul. The Imperial Apocalypse Draw had certain rules and stipulations put in Place by CCP to make sure that BIG was NOT making any ISK. This was the first time that Anything like this had ever been done and there was a FEW logistical problems. With the handling of thousands of tickets and billions of ISK, the few Logistics problems to come out of it were minor, compared to what they could have been. Things were smoothed over and in the end the lotto left some very happy, rich people.
I understand it's impossible to please every one all the time, BUT needlessly attacking someoneÆs volunteer work for the community seems rather shameless and rude and it always burns my ass BIG time. The very fact that CCP indorses the lotto by advertising it on the front page, in the news shows what I am saying is true.
Please, stop bashing the lotto. It's none profit. It's fun. It's a lot of work. Please Enjoy it.
BIG LOTTO
-Tion
Forums = B!tching
Don't be a fool and die for your corp! Let the other sonofab!tch die for his! |
Tion
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 21:37:00 -
[118]
I'm very sad this turned out the way it did, a simple favor some how managed to get me into a heap of trouble, and didn't really earn me any brownie points for sure. That said there was some nail biting on my part Thought for sure I was going to get the axe for this.
Luckily for me TornSoul lets the facts speak for them selves.
To those nay Sayers that accused me of scamming. . I do not scam, cheat or steal. These morals are NOT something promoted by BIG. I have a clean name and I for one would like to keep it that way... thanks.
The one thing that bothered me most about all of this though:
Originally by: psychonaut
Should I mention the BIG lottery mess a while back?
oops just did doh!
Now why out off all the things happening would this bother me? Because the BIG lotto is something done for the COMUNITY by BIG, and mostly (if not all) by TornSoul. It's been said many times and I'll say it again.
BIG MAKES NO ISK OFF THE LOTTO.
It's completely PR related. Hours of work put in By TornSoul. The Imperial Apocalypse Draw had certain rules and stipulations put in Place by CCP to make sure that BIG was NOT making any ISK. This was the first time that Anything like this had ever been done and there was a FEW logistical problems. With the handling of thousands of tickets and billions of ISK, the few Logistics problems to come out of it were minor, compared to what they could have been. Things were smoothed over and in the end the lotto left some very happy, rich people.
I understand it's impossible to please every one all the time, BUT needlessly attacking someoneÆs volunteer work for the community seems rather shameless and rude and it always burns my ass BIG time. The very fact that CCP indorses the lotto by advertising it on the front page, in the news shows what I am saying is true.
Please, stop bashing the lotto. It's none profit. It's fun. It's a lot of work. Please Enjoy it.
BIG LOTTO
-Tion
Forums = B!tching
Don't be a fool and die for your corp! Let the other sonofab!tch die for his! |
AirWalker
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 21:53:00 -
[119]
Thats got to be the best eve related story I've read to date. Looks like BIG will have to consider setting up a private investigation agency as a side business.
|
AirWalker
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 21:53:00 -
[120]
Thats got to be the best eve related story I've read to date. Looks like BIG will have to consider setting up a private investigation agency as a side business.
|
Fantome
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 22:20:00 -
[121]
only one word : IMPRESSIVE job thorn...
No answer from fret ... ?
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum. |
Fantome
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 22:20:00 -
[122]
only one word : IMPRESSIVE job thorn...
No answer from fret ... ?
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum. |
Sheena A
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 22:48:00 -
[123]
I have no idea who scammed who, but that screenshot is a fake. Since Exodus there is no way to turn the translucency down so that you could not see the "missing text" on the supposed convo behind the wallet... Open up a chat window then put your wallet in front of it, you can see straight through to the text in the window behind it.
|
Sheena A
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 22:48:00 -
[124]
I have no idea who scammed who, but that screenshot is a fake. Since Exodus there is no way to turn the translucency down so that you could not see the "missing text" on the supposed convo behind the wallet... Open up a chat window then put your wallet in front of it, you can see straight through to the text in the window behind it.
|
ibefaisal
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 22:52:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Sheena A
I have no idea who scammed who, but that screenshot is a fake. Since Exodus there is no way to turn the translucency down so that you could not see the "missing text" on the supposed convo behind the wallet... Open up a chat window then put your wallet in front of it, you can see straight through to the text in the window behind it.
hit esc in eve.... go to the graphics tab.... see the window color options, there a bottom scroll.... it says "transp." which means transparency... thank you....
|
ibefaisal
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 22:52:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Sheena A
I have no idea who scammed who, but that screenshot is a fake. Since Exodus there is no way to turn the translucency down so that you could not see the "missing text" on the supposed convo behind the wallet... Open up a chat window then put your wallet in front of it, you can see straight through to the text in the window behind it.
hit esc in eve.... go to the graphics tab.... see the window color options, there a bottom scroll.... it says "transp." which means transparency... thank you....
|
JD's
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 22:55:00 -
[127]
Edited by: JD's on 15/12/2004 22:57:08
Originally by: Sheena A
Since Exodus there is no way to turn the translucency down so that you could not see the "missing text" on the supposed convo behind the wallet...
er sorry but you can actually change transparency under the graphics tab. I think BIGs reputation is safe here, and i guess this is the reason they try not to get involved with this whole character transfer thing. Again no reply from fret, i think he's eating humble pie i know who i would trust here
|
JD's
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 22:55:00 -
[128]
Edited by: JD's on 15/12/2004 22:57:08
Originally by: Sheena A
Since Exodus there is no way to turn the translucency down so that you could not see the "missing text" on the supposed convo behind the wallet...
er sorry but you can actually change transparency under the graphics tab. I think BIGs reputation is safe here, and i guess this is the reason they try not to get involved with this whole character transfer thing. Again no reply from fret, i think he's eating humble pie i know who i would trust here
|
Lady Salvation
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 23:20:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Sheena A
I have no idea who scammed who, but that screenshot is a fake. Since Exodus there is no way to turn the translucency down so that you could not see the "missing text" on the supposed convo behind the wallet... Open up a chat window then put your wallet in front of it, you can see straight through to the text in the window behind it.
hi fret 
|
Lady Salvation
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 23:20:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Sheena A
I have no idea who scammed who, but that screenshot is a fake. Since Exodus there is no way to turn the translucency down so that you could not see the "missing text" on the supposed convo behind the wallet... Open up a chat window then put your wallet in front of it, you can see straight through to the text in the window behind it.
hi fret
|
XeroBeagle
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 23:36:00 -
[131]
BIG, GGWP, nice work, at least u fuxed over a ****er scammer, thats 1 down, only half of the eve players left!
|
XeroBeagle
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 23:36:00 -
[132]
BIG, GGWP, nice work, at least u fuxed over a ****er scammer, thats 1 down, only half of the eve players left!
|
qrac
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 23:41:00 -
[133]
i think fret got so mad getting busted that he broke his computer and can no longer post
-------------------------------------------
Insanes numquam moriuntur! |
qrac
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 23:41:00 -
[134]
i think fret got so mad getting busted that he broke his computer and can no longer post
-------------------------------------------
Insanes numquam moriuntur! |
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 23:48:00 -
[135]
Oh my GOD!!!! This is so untrue!!!! I never recieved this character!!! I never tampered with the logs!!! About 2 or 3 days after this deal i sent a email to ccp to tell me if a character was sent to my account... i have yet to recieve a responce. I am now convinced that this is a scam involving the hihest leadership of BIG. I have been 100% cooperative with BIG, and in the end they have made this entire story up....OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!
I appeal to any other sourse that will assist me in this, i didnt even know how to get the chat logs up...tornsoul had to walk me through the steps, after which i sent it directly to her, i even let her go into my acccount... This screams scam, i truely hope the public can see this.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 23:48:00 -
[136]
Oh my GOD!!!! This is so untrue!!!! I never recieved this character!!! I never tampered with the logs!!! About 2 or 3 days after this deal i sent a email to ccp to tell me if a character was sent to my account... i have yet to recieve a responce. I am now convinced that this is a scam involving the hihest leadership of BIG. I have been 100% cooperative with BIG, and in the end they have made this entire story up....OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!
I appeal to any other sourse that will assist me in this, i didnt even know how to get the chat logs up...tornsoul had to walk me through the steps, after which i sent it directly to her, i even let her go into my acccount... This screams scam, i truely hope the public can see this.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 23:49:00 -
[137]
and no reply because i live in japan,just woke up to this CRAP!!
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 23:49:00 -
[138]
and no reply because i live in japan,just woke up to this CRAP!!
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 23:55:00 -
[139]
OH MY GOD>>>>After looking at hat screenshot....I have no idea how it was done.....that is BS, I dont even speak that way...I dont say "ya", i say "yes"....This is so amazing that they would stoop this low... Could this scam go all the way to the top of the BIG chain of command?
I have always been honest in my dealings, and the only reason why i partisipated in this auction was because of the BIG name......I was as cooperative as possible. And in the endgame it seems to me a BIG fabrication. AM I THE ONLY ONE TO SEE THIS?
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 23:55:00 -
[140]
OH MY GOD>>>>After looking at hat screenshot....I have no idea how it was done.....that is BS, I dont even speak that way...I dont say "ya", i say "yes"....This is so amazing that they would stoop this low... Could this scam go all the way to the top of the BIG chain of command?
I have always been honest in my dealings, and the only reason why i partisipated in this auction was because of the BIG name......I was as cooperative as possible. And in the endgame it seems to me a BIG fabrication. AM I THE ONLY ONE TO SEE THIS?
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
TornSoul
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 23:57:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Fret
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
BIG Lottery
[u |
TornSoul
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 23:57:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Fret
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
BIG Lottery
[u |
qrac
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 23:58:00 -
[143]
Originally by: TornSoul
Originally by: Fret
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
damn u! i was just about to quote that 
-------------------------------------------
Insanes numquam moriuntur! |
qrac
|
Posted - 2004.12.15 23:58:00 -
[144]
Originally by: TornSoul
Originally by: Fret
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
damn u! i was just about to quote that
-------------------------------------------
Insanes numquam moriuntur! |
Tion
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 00:00:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Fret
This screams scam, i truely hope the public can see this.
Forums = B!tching
Don't be a fool and die for your corp! Let the other sonofab!tch die for his! |
Tion
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 00:00:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Fret
This screams scam, i truely hope the public can see this.
Forums = B!tching
Don't be a fool and die for your corp! Let the other sonofab!tch die for his! |
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 00:04:00 -
[147]
Spoke with TornSoul, when i told her that i petitioned CCP to send me a mail verifing that my account never recieved a character, she blocked me.
What does this mean? I will do everything in my power to show this forum that this was a BIG SCAM. GOG HELP ME I WILL.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 00:04:00 -
[148]
Spoke with TornSoul, when i told her that i petitioned CCP to send me a mail verifing that my account never recieved a character, she blocked me.
What does this mean? I will do everything in my power to show this forum that this was a BIG SCAM. GOG HELP ME I WILL.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 00:05:00 -
[149]
Thats a millitary operation....not a public forum people.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 00:05:00 -
[150]
Thats a millitary operation....not a public forum people.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Rthor
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 00:22:00 -
[151]
Could we get CCP investigate this. Something is still not quite right about that story but I dont have time to think about it right now. I think that CCP could verify if fret did receive the character or not?
|
Rthor
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 00:22:00 -
[152]
Could we get CCP investigate this. Something is still not quite right about that story but I dont have time to think about it right now. I think that CCP could verify if fret did receive the character or not?
|
Majin Buu
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 00:35:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Fret
Spoke with TornSoul, when i told her that i petitioned CCP to send me a mail verifing that my account never recieved a character, she blocked me.
What does this mean? I will do everything in my power to show this forum that this was a BIG SCAM. GOG HELP ME I WILL.
Take a pic of your account with the char missing....
BoB KillBoard |
Majin Buu
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 00:35:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Fret
Spoke with TornSoul, when i told her that i petitioned CCP to send me a mail verifing that my account never recieved a character, she blocked me.
What does this mean? I will do everything in my power to show this forum that this was a BIG SCAM. GOG HELP ME I WILL.
Take a pic of your account with the char missing....
BoB KillBoard |
Rthor
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 00:46:00 -
[155]
2 things:
1. What is Axee's take on this?
2. Tornsoul's whole case rests on the screenie taken by BIG member. Since the screenie shows that the transaction went forward as planned why would the BIG member feel the need to take the screenie? Maybe because he was careful and smart but maybe that screenshot is also a fake. If the screenie is legit then BIG is in the clear though.
I think that CCP should get involved in this out of respect for BIG.
|
Rthor
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 00:46:00 -
[156]
2 things:
1. What is Axee's take on this?
2. Tornsoul's whole case rests on the screenie taken by BIG member. Since the screenie shows that the transaction went forward as planned why would the BIG member feel the need to take the screenie? Maybe because he was careful and smart but maybe that screenshot is also a fake. If the screenie is legit then BIG is in the clear though.
I think that CCP should get involved in this out of respect for BIG.
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 00:56:00 -
[157]
I invite all to my thread in eve general discussions... i have posted this drama in its entirety, including the entire deal, all convo's with tornsoul up to about 30 minutes ago, I have NOTHING to hide here. I really feel this is something that needs to be addressed. All convo's relating to the deal what so ever are posted there, please read carefully.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 00:56:00 -
[158]
I invite all to my thread in eve general discussions... i have posted this drama in its entirety, including the entire deal, all convo's with tornsoul up to about 30 minutes ago, I have NOTHING to hide here. I really feel this is something that needs to be addressed. All convo's relating to the deal what so ever are posted there, please read carefully.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 00:58:00 -
[159]
well no use in taking that pic, tornsoul herself has seen my account and saw i only had 1 character...Whats to stop them from saying that i transfered it somewhere else?
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 00:58:00 -
[160]
well no use in taking that pic, tornsoul herself has seen my account and saw i only had 1 character...Whats to stop them from saying that i transfered it somewhere else?
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Chrisb6122
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 01:17:00 -
[161]
Do an Pic plz before we go ANY further with this arguemnt i am not biased in any way shape or form but this is an essential part of the your story.
Magnet41 > i kill people ingame because i would take a bigger sec if i killed them in rl |
Chrisb6122
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 01:17:00 -
[162]
Do an Pic plz before we go ANY further with this arguemnt i am not biased in any way shape or form but this is an essential part of the your story.
Magnet41 > i kill people ingame because i would take a bigger sec if i killed them in rl |
Dar Saleem
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 01:36:00 -
[163]
Edited by: Dar Saleem on 16/12/2004 01:36:34
Originally by: Fret
well no use in taking that pic, tornsoul herself has seen my account and saw i only had 1 character...Whats to stop them from saying that i transfered it somewhere else?
How could tornsoul see your logon
If you gave him your password you are breaking eula.
A sceenshot the logon would be good, but as you say the characater could already have been transferred to another account.
You said you petitioned the GM's about it. It was the best thing to do, let them sort it out after all thats what they are paided for and they have all the logs of it.
|
Dar Saleem
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 01:36:00 -
[164]
Edited by: Dar Saleem on 16/12/2004 01:36:34
Originally by: Fret
well no use in taking that pic, tornsoul herself has seen my account and saw i only had 1 character...Whats to stop them from saying that i transfered it somewhere else?
How could tornsoul see your logon
If you gave him your password you are breaking eula.
A sceenshot the logon would be good, but as you say the characater could already have been transferred to another account.
You said you petitioned the GM's about it. It was the best thing to do, let them sort it out after all thats what they are paided for and they have all the logs of it.
|
Anthony Kain
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 01:37:00 -
[165]
WOW! This is VERY interesting...I can't decide who's side to be on  . I'm leaning twords BIG atm, Fret hasn't been able to come up with any cold hard evidence, imo. Additionaly, and this is playing back to an earlier theme, why would TS go to ALL that trouble of making that AWESOME post (great read, btw) for only 750mil...
|
Anthony Kain
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 01:37:00 -
[166]
WOW! This is VERY interesting...I can't decide who's side to be on . I'm leaning twords BIG atm, Fret hasn't been able to come up with any cold hard evidence, imo. Additionaly, and this is playing back to an earlier theme, why would TS go to ALL that trouble of making that AWESOME post (great read, btw) for only 750mil...
|
Niaski Zalani
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 01:38:00 -
[167]
Edited by: Niaski Zalani on 16/12/2004 01:41:36
Edited by: Niaski Zalani on 16/12/2004 01:39:37
Originally by: Dar Saleem
Edited by: Dar Saleem on 16/12/2004 01:36:34
A sceenshot the logon would be good, but as you say the characater could already have been transferred to another account.
Screenshots of the char selection screen are VERY easy to fake...not that i'd know or anything..heh. It just seems like one would be able to time the background right and be able to take out the icon for the char...
edits: I dun be a gud spuller...fixing spelling..
yarr? |
Niaski Zalani
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 01:38:00 -
[168]
Edited by: Niaski Zalani on 16/12/2004 01:41:36
Edited by: Niaski Zalani on 16/12/2004 01:39:37
Originally by: Dar Saleem
Edited by: Dar Saleem on 16/12/2004 01:36:34
A sceenshot the logon would be good, but as you say the characater could already have been transferred to another account.
Screenshots of the char selection screen are VERY easy to fake...not that i'd know or anything..heh. It just seems like one would be able to time the background right and be able to take out the icon for the char...
edits: I dun be a gud spuller...fixing spelling..
yarr? |
Grinning Dragon
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 01:51:00 -
[169]
Hmmm... and yet Eve creates another player-driven class.
The Investigator.
ques the theme-song:
Quote:
It's a mystery to me
The game commences
For the usual fee
Plus expenses
Confidential information
It's in a diary
This is my investigation
It's not a public inquiry
I go checking out the report
Digging up the dirt
You get to meet all sorts
In the line of work
Treachery and treason
There's always an excuse for it
And when I find the reason
I still can't get used to it
And what have you got at the end of the day ?
What have you got to take away ?
A bottle of whisky and a new set of lies
blinds on the window and a pain behind the eyes
Scarred for life
No compensation
Private investigations
Dam... whiskey would be illegal in Amarr space...
Torn, you could charge isk as a real PI.
don't Fret it.
----------------
Your mother was a hampster and your father smelled of elderberries. |
Grinning Dragon
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 01:51:00 -
[170]
Hmmm... and yet Eve creates another player-driven class.
The Investigator.
ques the theme-song:
Quote:
It's a mystery to me
The game commences
For the usual fee
Plus expenses
Confidential information
It's in a diary
This is my investigation
It's not a public inquiry
I go checking out the report
Digging up the dirt
You get to meet all sorts
In the line of work
Treachery and treason
There's always an excuse for it
And when I find the reason
I still can't get used to it
And what have you got at the end of the day ?
What have you got to take away ?
A bottle of whisky and a new set of lies
blinds on the window and a pain behind the eyes
Scarred for life
No compensation
Private investigations
Dam... whiskey would be illegal in Amarr space...
Torn, you could charge isk as a real PI.
don't Fret it.
----------------
Your mother was a hampster and your father smelled of elderberries. |
Kezie Acoma
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 01:58:00 -
[171]
Edited by: Kezie Acoma on 16/12/2004 02:01:22
hmm i have read both forum posts this one and the one frett has done.. Sorry but i believe BIG are covering there arses. I truely believe Frett is innocent in this, even though her morals in buying characters i do not agree with. This is were i stand at the moment on all evidence bourght forward.
I was on the end of a scam 7 months ago and it truely does hurt. I left the game becuase of it, please who ever is guilty do the right thing give the money back or Frett own up and say yay! i got the character. Lets not ruin our community but build on it so more young players enjoy all that is EVE not get put off and leave becuase of the scams currently happening past and present.
|
Kezie Acoma
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 01:58:00 -
[172]
Edited by: Kezie Acoma on 16/12/2004 02:01:22
hmm i have read both forum posts this one and the one frett has done.. Sorry but i believe BIG are covering there arses. I truely believe Frett is innocent in this, even though her morals in buying characters i do not agree with. This is were i stand at the moment on all evidence bourght forward.
I was on the end of a scam 7 months ago and it truely does hurt. I left the game becuase of it, please who ever is guilty do the right thing give the money back or Frett own up and say yay! i got the character. Lets not ruin our community but build on it so more young players enjoy all that is EVE not get put off and leave becuase of the scams currently happening past and present.
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 02:19:00 -
[173]
I truely wish i had the character, i am considering giving up on this game beause of this. For me this is simple... I payed the isk to Tion, i never recieved a character. How TornSoul fots in this all really makes me mad. I though BIG stood for what this game is missing...integrity. I have been so open with these people you just cant understand. I have tried t hide nothing. I can gurantee that that screenshot is a fake, i dont even speak like that...im american i dont say "ya" i never have said "ya" before... That is an all out lie.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 02:19:00 -
[174]
I truely wish i had the character, i am considering giving up on this game beause of this. For me this is simple... I payed the isk to Tion, i never recieved a character. How TornSoul fots in this all really makes me mad. I though BIG stood for what this game is missing...integrity. I have been so open with these people you just cant understand. I have tried t hide nothing. I can gurantee that that screenshot is a fake, i dont even speak like that...im american i dont say "ya" i never have said "ya" before... That is an all out lie.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Anthony Kain
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 02:20:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Kezie Acoma
Edited by: Kezie Acoma on 16/12/2004 02:01:22
hmm i have read both forum posts this one and the one frett has done.. Sorry but i believe BIG are covering there arses. I truely believe Frett is innocent in this, even though her morals in buying characters i do not agree with. This is were i stand at the moment on all evidence bourght forward.
I was on the end of a scam 7 months ago and it truely does hurt. I left the game becuase of it, please who ever is guilty do the right thing give the money back or Frett own up and say yay! i got the character. Lets not ruin our community but build on it so more young players enjoy all that is EVE not get put off and leave becuase of the scams currently happening past and present.
I got scammed too...100mil for a cruise missile launcher is not a good price :). anyway, my argument still stands: why would BIG go to so much trouble to investigate for only 750mil?
|
Anthony Kain
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 02:20:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Kezie Acoma
Edited by: Kezie Acoma on 16/12/2004 02:01:22
hmm i have read both forum posts this one and the one frett has done.. Sorry but i believe BIG are covering there arses. I truely believe Frett is innocent in this, even though her morals in buying characters i do not agree with. This is were i stand at the moment on all evidence bourght forward.
I was on the end of a scam 7 months ago and it truely does hurt. I left the game becuase of it, please who ever is guilty do the right thing give the money back or Frett own up and say yay! i got the character. Lets not ruin our community but build on it so more young players enjoy all that is EVE not get put off and leave becuase of the scams currently happening past and present.
I got scammed too...100mil for a cruise missile launcher is not a good price :). anyway, my argument still stands: why would BIG go to so much trouble to investigate for only 750mil?
|
Rthor
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 02:28:00 -
[177]
BIG's investigation has little to do with the size of the amount.
|
Rthor
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 02:28:00 -
[178]
BIG's investigation has little to do with the size of the amount.
|
Elenia Kheynes
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 02:29:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Anthony Kain
Originally by: Kezie Acoma
Edited by: Kezie Acoma on 16/12/2004 02:01:22
hmm i have read both forum posts this one and the one frett has done.. Sorry but i believe BIG are covering there arses. I truely believe Frett is innocent in this, even though her morals in buying characters i do not agree with. This is were i stand at the moment on all evidence bourght forward.
I was on the end of a scam 7 months ago and it truely does hurt. I left the game becuase of it, please who ever is guilty do the right thing give the money back or Frett own up and say yay! i got the character. Lets not ruin our community but build on it so more young players enjoy all that is EVE not get put off and leave becuase of the scams currently happening past and present.
I got scammed too...100mil for a cruise missile launcher is not a good price :). anyway, my argument still stands: why would BIG go to so much trouble to investigate for only 750mil?
God damn true.
Dear friendly customer... Can I have your money ?
|
Elenia Kheynes
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 02:29:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Anthony Kain
Originally by: Kezie Acoma
Edited by: Kezie Acoma on 16/12/2004 02:01:22
hmm i have read both forum posts this one and the one frett has done.. Sorry but i believe BIG are covering there arses. I truely believe Frett is innocent in this, even though her morals in buying characters i do not agree with. This is were i stand at the moment on all evidence bourght forward.
I was on the end of a scam 7 months ago and it truely does hurt. I left the game becuase of it, please who ever is guilty do the right thing give the money back or Frett own up and say yay! i got the character. Lets not ruin our community but build on it so more young players enjoy all that is EVE not get put off and leave becuase of the scams currently happening past and present.
I got scammed too...100mil for a cruise missile launcher is not a good price :). anyway, my argument still stands: why would BIG go to so much trouble to investigate for only 750mil?
God damn true.
Dear friendly customer... Can I have your money ?
|
Na'Axin
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 02:34:00 -
[181]
according to the picture, Fret said he got the character....
then I'd like to see Tion's chat log right after that, cuz if fret said he got the character, he also needs to point out somewhere after that that he didn't get it after all, plus it would help validate the screenshot.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Na'Axin
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 02:34:00 -
[182]
according to the picture, Fret said he got the character....
then I'd like to see Tion's chat log right after that, cuz if fret said he got the character, he also needs to point out somewhere after that that he didn't get it after all, plus it would help validate the screenshot.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Free2Fly
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 02:53:00 -
[183]
The problem I have with that screen shot is the part where he says "ya I got the character, thank you sir, etc, etc" does not fit with the statements made before it and afterwards. It simply does not make any sense with the rest of the convo in the screen shot. Why would he say he's going to be in touch if he got the character. And why did Tion not say anything to acknowledge that he recieved the character. And why would he say he didn't get it, blah blah blah and then all of a sudden 'ya I got it'?
I certainly don't see how that screen shot can be taken as proof since the aledged statements don't go with the flow of the conversation like the ones that Fret posted do. Also, the super high compression on the image severely distorting the detail doesn't help with it's credability. Anyone can do a quick photoshop of a screen shot and compress it to nothing and make cover up any irregularities so it looks real.
I doubt the CEO of BIG would have anything to do with a scam or covering it up... but I can certainly see someone in BIG covering up their scam to their higher ups. |
Free2Fly
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 02:53:00 -
[184]
The problem I have with that screen shot is the part where he says "ya I got the character, thank you sir, etc, etc" does not fit with the statements made before it and afterwards. It simply does not make any sense with the rest of the convo in the screen shot. Why would he say he's going to be in touch if he got the character. And why did Tion not say anything to acknowledge that he recieved the character. And why would he say he didn't get it, blah blah blah and then all of a sudden 'ya I got it'?
I certainly don't see how that screen shot can be taken as proof since the aledged statements don't go with the flow of the conversation like the ones that Fret posted do. Also, the super high compression on the image severely distorting the detail doesn't help with it's credability. Anyone can do a quick photoshop of a screen shot and compress it to nothing and make cover up any irregularities so it looks real.
I doubt the CEO of BIG would have anything to do with a scam or covering it up... but I can certainly see someone in BIG covering up their scam to their higher ups. |
voodoo
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 02:53:00 -
[185]
wow this was actually the best forum read I think I have ever read. I am VERY impressed with you tornsoul.
It was wonderful to read I was totally convinced fret had been scammed ouuta the 750 mil. Then the plot thickens to dam near cement. I was revited to the screen and simply couldn't put this book down. The plot is exposed and you can almost hear the audiance gasping for air as the ****it hit the fan. Dam I want more wow that was just actually worth me paying for this months game play.
Bravo
Dam what a read very nice
ty
BTW fret you got wiped
but what if the ss was faked? is there a way to verify that the ss is actually real. I mean why would BIG risk there rep on a mear 750 mil. thats what everyone is thinking right?
Does this plot get even thicker?
I dont think so but can the ss be verified?
really its all not the clearest of screenies.
PSP works wonders.
hmmm well either way whata read.
The Blue Pills Make Me Happy |
voodoo
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 02:53:00 -
[186]
wow this was actually the best forum read I think I have ever read. I am VERY impressed with you tornsoul.
It was wonderful to read I was totally convinced fret had been scammed ouuta the 750 mil. Then the plot thickens to dam near cement. I was revited to the screen and simply couldn't put this book down. The plot is exposed and you can almost hear the audiance gasping for air as the ****it hit the fan. Dam I want more wow that was just actually worth me paying for this months game play.
Bravo
Dam what a read very nice
ty
BTW fret you got wiped
but what if the ss was faked? is there a way to verify that the ss is actually real. I mean why would BIG risk there rep on a mear 750 mil. thats what everyone is thinking right?
Does this plot get even thicker?
I dont think so but can the ss be verified?
really its all not the clearest of screenies.
PSP works wonders.
hmmm well either way whata read.
The Blue Pills Make Me Happy |
Lig Lira
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:00:00 -
[187]
Quote:
3. A new one that earned me 750 million ISK not too long ago is the æselling a fake characterÆ scam. Take screenshots of a character with lots of skill points, assets and good standings. Create an auction on the sell forum about you wanting to get rid of your character (post with an alt). DonÆt reveal the characters name and then have people bid on the character for 2-3 days. If you can find a person whoÆs willing to pay you the money first or even just æhalf now-half laterÆ like I got, you could find your wallet growing significantly without much effort. Note that this does not break any rules.
So this is a coincidence? No one has tried to explain these comments yet.
(I don't think I missed it)
Which PA character are you?
That's no flying saucer, that's my ass! |
Lig Lira
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:00:00 -
[188]
Quote:
3. A new one that earned me 750 million ISK not too long ago is the æselling a fake characterÆ scam. Take screenshots of a character with lots of skill points, assets and good standings. Create an auction on the sell forum about you wanting to get rid of your character (post with an alt). DonÆt reveal the characters name and then have people bid on the character for 2-3 days. If you can find a person whoÆs willing to pay you the money first or even just æhalf now-half laterÆ like I got, you could find your wallet growing significantly without much effort. Note that this does not break any rules.
So this is a coincidence? No one has tried to explain these comments yet.
(I don't think I missed it)
Which PA character are you?
That's no flying saucer, that's my ass! |
fairimear
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:03:00 -
[189]
CCP really does ned to say yes or no to if if the transfer did happen.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
|
fairimear
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:03:00 -
[190]
CCP really does ned to say yes or no to if if the transfer did happen.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world Domination.
|
voodoo
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:07:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Free2Fly
The problem I have with that screen shot is the part where he says "ya I got the character, thank you sir, etc, etc" does not fit with the statements made before it and afterwards. It simply does not make any sense with the rest of the convo in the screen shot. Why would he say he's going to be in touch if he got the character. And why did Tion not say anything to acknowledge that he recieved the character. And why would he say he didn't get it, blah blah blah and then all of a sudden 'ya I got it'?
I certainly don't see how that screen shot can be taken as proof since the aledged statements don't go with the flow of the conversation like the ones that Fret posted do. Also, the super high compression on the image severely distorting the detail doesn't help with it's credability. Anyone can do a quick photoshop of a screen shot and compress it to nothing and make cover up any irregularities so it looks real.
I doubt the CEO of BIG would have anything to do with a scam or covering it up... but I can certainly see someone in BIG covering up their scam to their higher ups.
lol dam you have an excellent point it simply doesn't fit at all. Why would he be in touch, he got the char, there is no need to get in touch after hes had his lunch.
wow this is just to dang good man. First i thought fret got scammed , then I thought fret was scamming big Now i dont know what to think.
But the satatment I got the char. doesn't fit into that convo.
It looks like I get my wish for more this isnt over
The Blue Pills Make Me Happy |
voodoo
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:07:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Free2Fly
The problem I have with that screen shot is the part where he says "ya I got the character, thank you sir, etc, etc" does not fit with the statements made before it and afterwards. It simply does not make any sense with the rest of the convo in the screen shot. Why would he say he's going to be in touch if he got the character. And why did Tion not say anything to acknowledge that he recieved the character. And why would he say he didn't get it, blah blah blah and then all of a sudden 'ya I got it'?
I certainly don't see how that screen shot can be taken as proof since the aledged statements don't go with the flow of the conversation like the ones that Fret posted do. Also, the super high compression on the image severely distorting the detail doesn't help with it's credability. Anyone can do a quick photoshop of a screen shot and compress it to nothing and make cover up any irregularities so it looks real.
I doubt the CEO of BIG would have anything to do with a scam or covering it up... but I can certainly see someone in BIG covering up their scam to their higher ups.
lol dam you have an excellent point it simply doesn't fit at all. Why would he be in touch, he got the char, there is no need to get in touch after hes had his lunch.
wow this is just to dang good man. First i thought fret got scammed , then I thought fret was scamming big Now i dont know what to think.
But the satatment I got the char. doesn't fit into that convo.
It looks like I get my wish for more this isnt over
The Blue Pills Make Me Happy |
voodoo
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:09:00 -
[193]
CCP cant get involved in the scam however I thought it was not allowed to let others access your account.
But the sad thing is, is CCP cant get involved in this scam, the scam is ongoing and it wouldnt be right for CCP to ruin the scammers attempts to scam
dang sham to I would love some verifacation but lets have more of this storyline
this is great stuff
The Blue Pills Make Me Happy |
voodoo
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:09:00 -
[194]
CCP cant get involved in the scam however I thought it was not allowed to let others access your account.
But the sad thing is, is CCP cant get involved in this scam, the scam is ongoing and it wouldnt be right for CCP to ruin the scammers attempts to scam
dang sham to I would love some verifacation but lets have more of this storyline
this is great stuff
The Blue Pills Make Me Happy |
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:15:00 -
[195]
I have petitioned CCP not to try to get my isk back...but to prove that i did not get a character transfered to me...that is my mission.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:15:00 -
[196]
I have petitioned CCP not to try to get my isk back...but to prove that i did not get a character transfered to me...that is my mission.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Rattman
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:17:00 -
[197]
Originally by: voodoo
lol dam you have an excellent point it simply doesn't fit at all. Why would he be in touch, he got the char, there is no need to get in touch after hes had his lunch.
Dunno about you but I use that I get in touch later as a throw away line like.
Seeya around, when I dont intend to
How are you, when I dont really care
All opinions, rambling or not, expressed here are my own and not that of my corp or alliance |
Rattman
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:17:00 -
[198]
Originally by: voodoo
lol dam you have an excellent point it simply doesn't fit at all. Why would he be in touch, he got the char, there is no need to get in touch after hes had his lunch.
Dunno about you but I use that I get in touch later as a throw away line like.
Seeya around, when I dont intend to
How are you, when I dont really care
All opinions, rambling or not, expressed here are my own and not that of my corp or alliance |
Anthony Kain
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:18:00 -
[199]
Originally by: voodoo
CCP cant get involved in the scam however I thought it was not allowed to let others access your account.
But the sad thing is, is CCP cant get involved in this scam, the scam is ongoing and it wouldnt be right for CCP to ruin the scammers attempts to scam
dang sham to I would love some verifacation but lets have more of this storyline
this is great stuff
as far as i know, its alright to let another person access your accout, as long they have your permission.
|
Anthony Kain
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:18:00 -
[200]
Originally by: voodoo
CCP cant get involved in the scam however I thought it was not allowed to let others access your account.
But the sad thing is, is CCP cant get involved in this scam, the scam is ongoing and it wouldnt be right for CCP to ruin the scammers attempts to scam
dang sham to I would love some verifacation but lets have more of this storyline
this is great stuff
as far as i know, its alright to let another person access your accout, as long they have your permission.
|
spookz
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:20:00 -
[201]
Correct. CCP cant get involved and if you get them involved be prepared for the worst as you let someone access your account and made it public. Bad move.
This sort of stuff doesnt do good things for the game. Just makes the game more unattractive to play.
|
spookz
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:20:00 -
[202]
Correct. CCP cant get involved and if you get them involved be prepared for the worst as you let someone access your account and made it public. Bad move.
This sort of stuff doesnt do good things for the game. Just makes the game more unattractive to play.
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:23:00 -
[203]
Edited by: Fret on 16/12/2004 03:24:40
well as i have always said from the start...i have nothing to hide... i welcome them into my accout, i want them to see and share with everyone that i have been telling the truth.
I didnt realize it was illigal to let tornsoul access my account, but i did out of good faith for thier investigation...if you want to call it that. All i want id for the truth to be known here. I DID NOT ATTEMPT TO SCAM BIG. I WAS SCAMMED. All i have told you is TRUTH. Hopefully CCP can help me prove that.And thats what is imporatant to me.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:23:00 -
[204]
Edited by: Fret on 16/12/2004 03:24:40
well as i have always said from the start...i have nothing to hide... i welcome them into my accout, i want them to see and share with everyone that i have been telling the truth.
I didnt realize it was illigal to let tornsoul access my account, but i did out of good faith for thier investigation...if you want to call it that. All i want id for the truth to be known here. I DID NOT ATTEMPT TO SCAM BIG. I WAS SCAMMED. All i have told you is TRUTH. Hopefully CCP can help me prove that.And thats what is imporatant to me.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Jessa
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:23:00 -
[205]
Edited by: Jessa on 16/12/2004 04:40:05
Originally by: Kezie Acoma
Edited by: Kezie Acoma on 16/12/2004 02:01:22
hmm i have read both forum posts this one and the one frett has done.. Sorry but i believe BIG are covering there arses. I truely believe Frett is innocent in this, even though her morals in buying characters i do not agree with. This is were i stand at the moment on all evidence bourght forward.
I was on the end of a scam 7 months ago and it truely does hurt. I left the game becuase of it, please who ever is guilty do the right thing give the money back or Frett own up and say yay! i got the character. Lets not ruin our community but build on it so more young players enjoy all that is EVE not get put off and leave becuase of the scams currently happening past and present.
I see a lot of similiarities between writing styles of Fret and this character... besides that; why would you post with your BRAND NEW 1 Day old alt?
Kezie Acoma; Member of State War Academy for 1 Day. Doesnt make sense.
As for creating another thread to try and burn BIG... LOL. You have been caught out, plain as day. Extra publicity wouldnt help get the character, Patience while the GM's work would. Smells of scammer. Pretending you're a noob with computers to buy time to edit the logs... Scammer.
Originally by: Fret
I am now convinced that this is a scam involving the hihest leadership of BIG.
And
Originally by: Fret
Could this scam go all the way to the top of the BIG chain of command?
"Oh no people, I'm not a scammer, its BIG i tell you, why won't you believe me?"
And finally...
Originally by: Fret
well no use in taking that pic, tornsoul herself has seen my account and saw i only had 1 character...Whats to stop them from saying that i transfered it somewhere else?
At last. Is that what you did with it Fret?
|
Jessa
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:23:00 -
[206]
Edited by: Jessa on 16/12/2004 04:40:05
Originally by: Kezie Acoma
Edited by: Kezie Acoma on 16/12/2004 02:01:22
hmm i have read both forum posts this one and the one frett has done.. Sorry but i believe BIG are covering there arses. I truely believe Frett is innocent in this, even though her morals in buying characters i do not agree with. This is were i stand at the moment on all evidence bourght forward.
I was on the end of a scam 7 months ago and it truely does hurt. I left the game becuase of it, please who ever is guilty do the right thing give the money back or Frett own up and say yay! i got the character. Lets not ruin our community but build on it so more young players enjoy all that is EVE not get put off and leave becuase of the scams currently happening past and present.
I see a lot of similiarities between writing styles of Fret and this character... besides that; why would you post with your BRAND NEW 1 Day old alt?
Kezie Acoma; Member of State War Academy for 1 Day. Doesnt make sense.
As for creating another thread to try and burn BIG... LOL. You have been caught out, plain as day. Extra publicity wouldnt help get the character, Patience while the GM's work would. Smells of scammer. Pretending you're a noob with computers to buy time to edit the logs... Scammer.
Originally by: Fret
I am now convinced that this is a scam involving the hihest leadership of BIG.
And
Originally by: Fret
Could this scam go all the way to the top of the BIG chain of command?
"Oh no people, I'm not a scammer, its BIG i tell you, why won't you believe me?"
And finally...
Originally by: Fret
well no use in taking that pic, tornsoul herself has seen my account and saw i only had 1 character...Whats to stop them from saying that i transfered it somewhere else?
At last. Is that what you did with it Fret?
|
Kantar
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:25:00 -
[207]
Edited by: Kantar on 16/12/2004 03:26:41
WOW someone should make a film out of this,there is everyting you can ask for,the scam,the double play,the false screenshot,i usually dont read in the forum but guys keep doin this bcose this is worth more then actually play EVE.
Now my point of view is:
The only way to resolve this is for CCp to look at Fret account to see if any char transaction took place.
BTW I didnt see 1 post from the guy who ACTUALLY sold the char,if I was him i posted straight away to back up my friend that (as Tion said)been in a lot of trouble to sell it.
Something is not quiet right yet.
This remind me of OCEAN 11 somehow
|
Kantar
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:25:00 -
[208]
Edited by: Kantar on 16/12/2004 03:26:41
WOW someone should make a film out of this,there is everyting you can ask for,the scam,the double play,the false screenshot,i usually dont read in the forum but guys keep doin this bcose this is worth more then actually play EVE.
Now my point of view is:
The only way to resolve this is for CCp to look at Fret account to see if any char transaction took place.
BTW I didnt see 1 post from the guy who ACTUALLY sold the char,if I was him i posted straight away to back up my friend that (as Tion said)been in a lot of trouble to sell it.
Something is not quiet right yet.
This remind me of OCEAN 11 somehow
|
DPO Agent
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:26:00 -
[209]
I do wonder as to why he said he did't get the character till after he had sent the confirmation as to getting it to tone.
unless hes JUST out to Dammage the BIG name i would not have tryied to get BIG to give me 750mill but rather never send tone the yes and say it did't come and try to get my isk back.
so A. if it had come throught right after to that user name it would have been there when torn looked.
and he says there was only a character waiting to be scrap, why would u scrap it if he had just payed 750mill and not sure it would be given back yet.
B. why send tone the confirmation the character came through? he knew the isk he gave tone would be sent off and then he would have to scam big for 750 of their isk.
it makes far more sense that when the character came through he would just say to tone NO it did't then get torn to look into it then when no proof (like there is't) it did come through came up, BIG not having to give their isk would just return his.
so unless he was out to get BIG not scam 750mill or buy a character this make no sense that either is saying the truth.
C. if he is out to get BIG. then why?
unless it 1 of their war nme's that tone was using a alt to haul with so he would not get killed.
D. what do BIG have to gain?
750MILL for a start.
thats 7 BS or a good part of the price to a silver magnate they would make far more from lottoing after.
As Tornsoul seemed to have all the right evidence to suport BIG and seemed to have it laid out EXTREAMLY well i felt maybe a few holes needed poking in the theory they put forward.
i am 100% with Faiirimear CCP need to settle this.
one of the few corps they have done stuff for is in trouble and to protect part of CCP's rep in advertising they should come out and say if a character was transfered.
|
DPO Agent
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:26:00 -
[210]
I do wonder as to why he said he did't get the character till after he had sent the confirmation as to getting it to tone.
unless hes JUST out to Dammage the BIG name i would not have tryied to get BIG to give me 750mill but rather never send tone the yes and say it did't come and try to get my isk back.
so A. if it had come throught right after to that user name it would have been there when torn looked.
and he says there was only a character waiting to be scrap, why would u scrap it if he had just payed 750mill and not sure it would be given back yet.
B. why send tone the confirmation the character came through? he knew the isk he gave tone would be sent off and then he would have to scam big for 750 of their isk.
it makes far more sense that when the character came through he would just say to tone NO it did't then get torn to look into it then when no proof (like there is't) it did come through came up, BIG not having to give their isk would just return his.
so unless he was out to get BIG not scam 750mill or buy a character this make no sense that either is saying the truth.
C. if he is out to get BIG. then why?
unless it 1 of their war nme's that tone was using a alt to haul with so he would not get killed.
D. what do BIG have to gain?
750MILL for a start.
thats 7 BS or a good part of the price to a silver magnate they would make far more from lottoing after.
As Tornsoul seemed to have all the right evidence to suport BIG and seemed to have it laid out EXTREAMLY well i felt maybe a few holes needed poking in the theory they put forward.
i am 100% with Faiirimear CCP need to settle this.
one of the few corps they have done stuff for is in trouble and to protect part of CCP's rep in advertising they should come out and say if a character was transfered.
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:28:00 -
[211]
buying time? it took around 10 minutes to figue out how to get to the chat logs, the times should support that and tornsoul herself should be able to support that. If i could type 500 words per minute then mabey thats possible, but i cant...I sincearly hope CCP helps me with this one.... It amazes me how people come up with this mess, when i know that i am innocent.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:28:00 -
[212]
buying time? it took around 10 minutes to figue out how to get to the chat logs, the times should support that and tornsoul herself should be able to support that. If i could type 500 words per minute then mabey thats possible, but i cant...I sincearly hope CCP helps me with this one.... It amazes me how people come up with this mess, when i know that i am innocent.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
voodoo
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:28:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Rattman
Originally by: voodoo
lol dam you have an excellent point it simply doesn't fit at all. Why would he be in touch, he got the char, there is no need to get in touch after hes had his lunch.
Dunno about you but I use that I get in touch later as a throw away line like.
Seeya around, when I dont intend to
How are you, when I dont really care
another good point, Im totally confused, more then normal too lol
but why would there even need to be a ss? I mean the info would stay in the wallet for ever, if there was ever a problem the info takin in that screenie could easily be taken at any time, couldn't?
" heres Tion thinking to himself, I better take a screenie of this right now just incase in the future theres some problem?"
why the info will always be in the wallet.
to take thescreenie at all just don't make sence or am i missing something else?
The Blue Pills Make Me Happy |
voodoo
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:28:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Rattman
Originally by: voodoo
lol dam you have an excellent point it simply doesn't fit at all. Why would he be in touch, he got the char, there is no need to get in touch after hes had his lunch.
Dunno about you but I use that I get in touch later as a throw away line like.
Seeya around, when I dont intend to
How are you, when I dont really care
another good point, Im totally confused, more then normal too lol
but why would there even need to be a ss? I mean the info would stay in the wallet for ever, if there was ever a problem the info takin in that screenie could easily be taken at any time, couldn't?
" heres Tion thinking to himself, I better take a screenie of this right now just incase in the future theres some problem?"
why the info will always be in the wallet.
to take thescreenie at all just don't make sence or am i missing something else?
The Blue Pills Make Me Happy |
Archbishop
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:35:00 -
[215]
Quote:
"2. Tornsoul's whole case rests on the screenie taken by BIG member. Since the screenie shows that the transaction went forward as planned why would the BIG member feel the need to take the screenie? Maybe because he was careful and smart but maybe that screenshot is also a fake. If the screenie is legit then BIG is in the clear though."
This isn't that unusual. I myself often take screenshots of trades in game (BP's, Ships, Etc) just for my own protection. Call me paranoid but I've seen too many scams like this take place where "show the proof" is the first demand.
On another note I saved and examined Tornsouls screenshots of the wallet in Adobe Photoshop. I zoomed way in and found no evidence of layers or pastes that would be indicative of an edit to the wallet. I'm not a pro but I couldn't spot it and Photoshop is pretty good.
Archbishop
VISIT THE PIE HOMEPAGE & FORUMS
PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Archbishop
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:35:00 -
[216]
Quote:
"2. Tornsoul's whole case rests on the screenie taken by BIG member. Since the screenie shows that the transaction went forward as planned why would the BIG member feel the need to take the screenie? Maybe because he was careful and smart but maybe that screenshot is also a fake. If the screenie is legit then BIG is in the clear though."
This isn't that unusual. I myself often take screenshots of trades in game (BP's, Ships, Etc) just for my own protection. Call me paranoid but I've seen too many scams like this take place where "show the proof" is the first demand.
On another note I saved and examined Tornsouls screenshots of the wallet in Adobe Photoshop. I zoomed way in and found no evidence of layers or pastes that would be indicative of an edit to the wallet. I'm not a pro but I couldn't spot it and Photoshop is pretty good.
Archbishop
VISIT THE PIE HOMEPAGE & FORUMS
PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Rthor
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:35:00 -
[217]
plz quote me voodoo since this is going to be a movie and stuff. :-)
|
Rthor
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:35:00 -
[218]
plz quote me voodoo since this is going to be a movie and stuff. :-)
|
voodoo
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:35:00 -
[219]
Originally by: DPO Agent
I do wonder as to why he said he did't get the character till after he had sent the confirmation as to getting it to tone.
unless hes JUST out to Dammage the BIG name i would not have tryied to get BIG to give me 750mill but rather never send tone the yes and say it did't come and try to get my isk back.
so A. if it had come throught right after to that user name it would have been there when torn looked.
and he says there was only a character waiting to be scrap, why would u scrap it if he had just payed 750mill and not sure it would be given back yet.
I think i read torn didnt look at his account until hours later like 2 server reboots later, fret could have easily just transfered the char to another account, as fret said it normally happens right away.
The Blue Pills Make Me Happy |
voodoo
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:35:00 -
[220]
Originally by: DPO Agent
I do wonder as to why he said he did't get the character till after he had sent the confirmation as to getting it to tone.
unless hes JUST out to Dammage the BIG name i would not have tryied to get BIG to give me 750mill but rather never send tone the yes and say it did't come and try to get my isk back.
so A. if it had come throught right after to that user name it would have been there when torn looked.
and he says there was only a character waiting to be scrap, why would u scrap it if he had just payed 750mill and not sure it would be given back yet.
I think i read torn didnt look at his account until hours later like 2 server reboots later, fret could have easily just transfered the char to another account, as fret said it normally happens right away.
The Blue Pills Make Me Happy |
voodoo
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:36:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Rthor
plz quote me voodoo since this is going to be a movie and stuff. :-)
sure Ill quote ya, you'll be the guy begging to be quoted lol
The Blue Pills Make Me Happy |
voodoo
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:36:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Rthor
plz quote me voodoo since this is going to be a movie and stuff. :-)
sure Ill quote ya, you'll be the guy begging to be quoted lol
The Blue Pills Make Me Happy |
Archbishop
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:39:00 -
[223]
In all honesty the only way this could possibly be solved officially is if CCP came in and posted here YES THIS HAPPEND. They are the ones that know.
Since its doubtful they would ever do that we'll probably never know the whole truth.
Given that what evidence we do have indicates BIG was telling the truth I'd be inclined to believe Tornsoul. I've done business with BIG and have found them honorable and loyal. I can't imagine they would sanction a scam such as this. A good reputation is very hard to earn and easy to break down. BIG has earned theirs in my book.
Archbishop
VISIT THE PIE HOMEPAGE & FORUMS
PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Archbishop
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:39:00 -
[224]
In all honesty the only way this could possibly be solved officially is if CCP came in and posted here YES THIS HAPPEND. They are the ones that know.
Since its doubtful they would ever do that we'll probably never know the whole truth.
Given that what evidence we do have indicates BIG was telling the truth I'd be inclined to believe Tornsoul. I've done business with BIG and have found them honorable and loyal. I can't imagine they would sanction a scam such as this. A good reputation is very hard to earn and easy to break down. BIG has earned theirs in my book.
Archbishop
VISIT THE PIE HOMEPAGE & FORUMS
PIE INFORMATION CENTER |
Free2Fly
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:39:00 -
[225]
HereÆs what Fret claims was said:
[ 2004.12.11 04:19:16 ] Tion > I hope so too Or I'm going to get one hell of a spanking from TornSoul
[ 2004.12.11 04:19:37 ] Fret > well he is your rl friend so lets hope not
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:18 ] Fret > if i dont have the character by next server reboot, ill be contacting tornsoul
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:47 ] Tion > eve mail me and I'll send you your ISK back :)
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:57 ] Fret > i have transfered characters many times....i have never recieved a wait, it is usualy instant
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:19 ] Tion > I do not know because I've never done it that is starnge for sure
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:27 ] Fret > but hopefuly i get the char...after all thts what i want the most
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:40 ] Fret > ty for your help sir, i have to go to lunch
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:43 ] Fret > ill be in touch
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:44 ] Tion > yes it's a nice char
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:50 ] Tion > ok enjoy your lunch
HereÆs what the screen shot shows:
[ 2004.12.11 04:19:16 ] Tion > I hope so too Or I'm going to get one hell of a spanking from TornSoul
[ 2004.12.11 04:19:37 ] Fret > well he is your rl friend so lets hope not
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:18 ] Fret > if i dont have the character by next server reboot, ill be contacting tornsoul
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:47 ] Tion > eve mail me and I'll send you your ISK back :)
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:57 ] Fret > i have transfered characters many times....i have never recieved a wait, it is usualy instant
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:19 ] Tion > I do not know because I've never done it that is starnge for sure
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:27 ] Fret > Ya i got the charecter, send the ISK
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:40 ] Fret > ty for your help sir, i have to go to lunch
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:43 ] Fret > ill be in touch
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:44 ] Tion > yes it's a nice char
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:50 ] Tion > ok enjoy your lunch
Everything is the same except for the line at timestamp 04:21:27
Now, letÆs examine FretÆs version:
He is talking about how heÆs transferred characters many times and itÆs strange it is taking so long. Remember that Tion stated earlier it could take up to 24 hours when we all know thatÆs not how long it takes (several have posted itÆs instant). Now, Tion says, he doesnÆt know because heÆs never done this procedure, but agrees it IS strange for sure. Continuing his train of thought, Fret then says he BUT he does hopes he gets the character after all thatÆs what he really wants, implying that despite his worries, he really wants it to go through. A few seconds later, before Tion can reply, he states ty for your help and he has to go to lunch now, and heÆll be in touch (obviously in regards to the lack of a character transfer). Tion, catching up with the convo states, ôyes itÆs a nice char" in obvious response to FretÆs statement that he really hopes he can just get the character, and then states enjoy your lunch.
I can see NO REASON why Tion would make the comment in regards to the character being nice, which fits perfectly in context with FretÆs logs in which he stated ôbut hopefuly i get the char...after all thts what i want the mostö. His comments about the character being nice DO NOT fit in any reasonable way within the context that the supposed screen shot provides, where Fret suddenly states ôya I got the character.ö
Why then would he need to be in touch? He got the character, end of story.
IÆm sorry, that screen shot just wreaks of editing. ItÆs like doing a voice over a swear word on a television broad cast, where you just KNOW thatÆs not what the character was really saying because it was so stupidly out of context.
I donÆt buy it. That screen shot is a sham. It is also so over compressed it can not be inspected for editing. Tion didnÆt scam just Fret, he scammed TornSoul, and TornSoul, unless holding back other info/proof, bought into his/her corp memberÆs story too easily.
|
Free2Fly
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:39:00 -
[226]
HereÆs what Fret claims was said:
[ 2004.12.11 04:19:16 ] Tion > I hope so too Or I'm going to get one hell of a spanking from TornSoul
[ 2004.12.11 04:19:37 ] Fret > well he is your rl friend so lets hope not
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:18 ] Fret > if i dont have the character by next server reboot, ill be contacting tornsoul
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:47 ] Tion > eve mail me and I'll send you your ISK back :)
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:57 ] Fret > i have transfered characters many times....i have never recieved a wait, it is usualy instant
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:19 ] Tion > I do not know because I've never done it that is starnge for sure
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:27 ] Fret > but hopefuly i get the char...after all thts what i want the most
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:40 ] Fret > ty for your help sir, i have to go to lunch
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:43 ] Fret > ill be in touch
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:44 ] Tion > yes it's a nice char
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:50 ] Tion > ok enjoy your lunch
HereÆs what the screen shot shows:
[ 2004.12.11 04:19:16 ] Tion > I hope so too Or I'm going to get one hell of a spanking from TornSoul
[ 2004.12.11 04:19:37 ] Fret > well he is your rl friend so lets hope not
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:18 ] Fret > if i dont have the character by next server reboot, ill be contacting tornsoul
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:47 ] Tion > eve mail me and I'll send you your ISK back :)
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:57 ] Fret > i have transfered characters many times....i have never recieved a wait, it is usualy instant
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:19 ] Tion > I do not know because I've never done it that is starnge for sure
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:27 ] Fret > Ya i got the charecter, send the ISK
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:40 ] Fret > ty for your help sir, i have to go to lunch
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:43 ] Fret > ill be in touch
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:44 ] Tion > yes it's a nice char
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:50 ] Tion > ok enjoy your lunch
Everything is the same except for the line at timestamp 04:21:27
Now, letÆs examine FretÆs version:
He is talking about how heÆs transferred characters many times and itÆs strange it is taking so long. Remember that Tion stated earlier it could take up to 24 hours when we all know thatÆs not how long it takes (several have posted itÆs instant). Now, Tion says, he doesnÆt know because heÆs never done this procedure, but agrees it IS strange for sure. Continuing his train of thought, Fret then says he BUT he does hopes he gets the character after all thatÆs what he really wants, implying that despite his worries, he really wants it to go through. A few seconds later, before Tion can reply, he states ty for your help and he has to go to lunch now, and heÆll be in touch (obviously in regards to the lack of a character transfer). Tion, catching up with the convo states, ôyes itÆs a nice char" in obvious response to FretÆs statement that he really hopes he can just get the character, and then states enjoy your lunch.
I can see NO REASON why Tion would make the comment in regards to the character being nice, which fits perfectly in context with FretÆs logs in which he stated ôbut hopefuly i get the char...after all thts what i want the mostö. His comments about the character being nice DO NOT fit in any reasonable way within the context that the supposed screen shot provides, where Fret suddenly states ôya I got the character.ö
Why then would he need to be in touch? He got the character, end of story.
IÆm sorry, that screen shot just wreaks of editing. ItÆs like doing a voice over a swear word on a television broad cast, where you just KNOW thatÆs not what the character was really saying because it was so stupidly out of context.
I donÆt buy it. That screen shot is a sham. It is also so over compressed it can not be inspected for editing. Tion didnÆt scam just Fret, he scammed TornSoul, and TornSoul, unless holding back other info/proof, bought into his/her corp memberÆs story too easily.
|
Kantar
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:41:00 -
[227]
to take thescreenie at all just don't make sence or am i missing something else?
Esacly if I was doing that transaction would never cross my mind to take a screeny unless i was goin to use later as proof for something,and look at the coincidence took the screeny right when Fret say "ya i got it "(btw who talk like that this days ?)hmmm very convinient or is a case or been in the right place at the right time.
|
Kantar
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:41:00 -
[228]
to take thescreenie at all just don't make sence or am i missing something else?
Esacly if I was doing that transaction would never cross my mind to take a screeny unless i was goin to use later as proof for something,and look at the coincidence took the screeny right when Fret say "ya i got it "(btw who talk like that this days ?)hmmm very convinient or is a case or been in the right place at the right time.
|
Rthor
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:41:00 -
[229]
As voodoo stated the info on transaction is saved in the wallet. He does not need to take a screenshot at that moment to prove that he moved the money. He does need to take a screenshot to prove that Fret said that everything
is fine. But he did open the wallet in that screenshot...
And to prove chat he could also produce his own logs as Fret has. More so since it was in BIG channel then BIG members might have the logs...
|
Rthor
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:41:00 -
[230]
As voodoo stated the info on transaction is saved in the wallet. He does not need to take a screenshot at that moment to prove that he moved the money. He does need to take a screenshot to prove that Fret said that everything
is fine. But he did open the wallet in that screenshot...
And to prove chat he could also produce his own logs as Fret has. More so since it was in BIG channel then BIG members might have the logs...
|
Rthor
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:42:00 -
[231]
ok no need to quote me voodoo. bite me instead.
|
Rthor
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:42:00 -
[232]
ok no need to quote me voodoo. bite me instead.
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:44:00 -
[233]
I too felt the same way about BIG, perhaps they have not looked at this from the most objectional light...But i can say this and will say over and over again...This is not my doing, i payed for this character, did not recieve this character...I do no...I REPEAT do not want my isk back...all i want is for the TRUTH to be known. If CCP just does the minimum and tells the truth without condeming thier scam, that is enough for me, i have sent the petition and have had correspondence with a GM, i hope thier responce will be more sooner than latter.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:44:00 -
[234]
I too felt the same way about BIG, perhaps they have not looked at this from the most objectional light...But i can say this and will say over and over again...This is not my doing, i payed for this character, did not recieve this character...I do no...I REPEAT do not want my isk back...all i want is for the TRUTH to be known. If CCP just does the minimum and tells the truth without condeming thier scam, that is enough for me, i have sent the petition and have had correspondence with a GM, i hope thier responce will be more sooner than latter.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
s4mp3r0r
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:45:00 -
[235]
Edited by: s4mp3r0r on 16/12/2004 03:44:53
Holy scamola Batman !
All this wouldn't have happened if I was Caldari dictator.
Great read guys. Can't wait to see the movie.
Bjorn Borg :
Underwear is futile ! |
s4mp3r0r
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:45:00 -
[236]
Edited by: s4mp3r0r on 16/12/2004 03:44:53
Holy scamola Batman !
All this wouldn't have happened if I was Caldari dictator.
Great read guys. Can't wait to see the movie.
Bjorn Borg :
Underwear is futile ! |
Darth Star
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:56:00 -
[237]
Just out of interest why are you trying to get BIG to give you the 750mill
They don't have it (going by the wallet screen shot) it was sent to the owner of the char after you said you had it (if the screen shot is real)
even if the screen shot is fake (the chat window edited) the wallet entry is proberbly real so they have your money
You need to be chasing Axee to get your money back
|
Darth Star
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:56:00 -
[238]
Just out of interest why are you trying to get BIG to give you the 750mill
They don't have it (going by the wallet screen shot) it was sent to the owner of the char after you said you had it (if the screen shot is real)
even if the screen shot is fake (the chat window edited) the wallet entry is proberbly real so they have your money
You need to be chasing Axee to get your money back
|
Kantar
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:56:00 -
[239]
Edited by: Kantar on 16/12/2004 03:59:14
Free2fly made a good observation there,
the chat between the 2 of them fit better on the original one ( produce by Fret) then the screeny,I just ceck the screeny again and the transfer was made at 4.02 the money were in Tion wallet BUT checkin the log Tion ( when Fret say "ya i got it send the ISK") at 4.27 now if Fret ALREADY PAY IT why she would say " ya i got the char ,send the ISK ?????????
25 minute later she/he forgot that already deposit the 750 mil is his account??
hmmmm
|
Kantar
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:56:00 -
[240]
Edited by: Kantar on 16/12/2004 03:59:14
Free2fly made a good observation there,
the chat between the 2 of them fit better on the original one ( produce by Fret) then the screeny,I just ceck the screeny again and the transfer was made at 4.02 the money were in Tion wallet BUT checkin the log Tion ( when Fret say "ya i got it send the ISK") at 4.27 now if Fret ALREADY PAY IT why she would say " ya i got the char ,send the ISK ?????????
25 minute later she/he forgot that already deposit the 750 mil is his account??
hmmmm
|
Lord Byron
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:57:00 -
[241]
DAMN , what a PR
I would gladly pay 1 BILL. for such a "scam".
N.A.G.A Corp | NeoCom Site
Lord Byron - Burnt Head
Desire is most likely the shortest road to destruction - but who cares |
Lord Byron
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 03:57:00 -
[242]
DAMN , what a PR
I would gladly pay 1 BILL. for such a "scam".
N.A.G.A Corp | NeoCom Site
Lord Byron - Burnt Head
Desire is most likely the shortest road to destruction - but who cares |
Duncan
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 04:02:00 -
[243]
Originally by: Lig Lira
Quote:
3. A new one that earned me 750 million ISK not too long ago is the æselling a fake characterÆ scam. Take screenshots of a character with lots of skill points, assets and good standings. Create an auction on the sell forum about you wanting to get rid of your character (post with an alt). DonÆt reveal the characters name and then have people bid on the character for 2-3 days. If you can find a person whoÆs willing to pay you the money first or even just æhalf now-half laterÆ like I got, you could find your wallet growing significantly without much effort. Note that this does not break any rules.
So this is a coincidence? No one has tried to explain these comments yet.
(I don't think I missed it)
Plenty of SUper high Industial char have been sold in the last month month & half, i remember bids reaching 1.5 to 2bil, half of that comes to just about 750mil.
Vegeta is not stupid enough to talk about an ONGOEING scam. But then only he really knows
|
Duncan
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 04:02:00 -
[244]
Originally by: Lig Lira
Quote:
3. A new one that earned me 750 million ISK not too long ago is the æselling a fake characterÆ scam. Take screenshots of a character with lots of skill points, assets and good standings. Create an auction on the sell forum about you wanting to get rid of your character (post with an alt). DonÆt reveal the characters name and then have people bid on the character for 2-3 days. If you can find a person whoÆs willing to pay you the money first or even just æhalf now-half laterÆ like I got, you could find your wallet growing significantly without much effort. Note that this does not break any rules.
So this is a coincidence? No one has tried to explain these comments yet.
(I don't think I missed it)
Plenty of SUper high Industial char have been sold in the last month month & half, i remember bids reaching 1.5 to 2bil, half of that comes to just about 750mil.
Vegeta is not stupid enough to talk about an ONGOEING scam. But then only he really knows
|
Duncan
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 04:04:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Lord Byron
DAMN , what a PR
I would gladly pay 1 BILL. for such a "scam".
LB check your mailbox, i've got a "character" i want to auction off
Mind beeing the middleman???
|
Duncan
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 04:04:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Lord Byron
DAMN , what a PR
I would gladly pay 1 BILL. for such a "scam".
LB check your mailbox, i've got a "character" i want to auction off
Mind beeing the middleman???
|
voodoo
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 04:08:00 -
[247]
another thing thats interisting to me is the fact the auction was extended 3 hours from its dead line. with a BIG member acting as middleman the fact that teh auction was extended 3 hours is BS, what about the bidder that had the last bid when the auction was supposed to end, then its extended so that fret can get the char?
that itself is bad business alone. the fact the auction was extended from its original time kinda blows
why was the auction extended?
and was everyone who bid notified that the auction was being extended?
10 min sniper rule??? BIG ok's and puts there name on the auction, is this how they run auctions just randomly extending when ever and for whoever they choose
bad business and for that alone really they need to refund and eat the scam
the auction was bogus and not what BIG stands for or is it?
So BIG my question to you is, is this how you run auctions?
The Blue Pills Make Me Happy |
voodoo
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 04:08:00 -
[248]
another thing thats interisting to me is the fact the auction was extended 3 hours from its dead line. with a BIG member acting as middleman the fact that teh auction was extended 3 hours is BS, what about the bidder that had the last bid when the auction was supposed to end, then its extended so that fret can get the char?
that itself is bad business alone. the fact the auction was extended from its original time kinda blows
why was the auction extended?
and was everyone who bid notified that the auction was being extended?
10 min sniper rule??? BIG ok's and puts there name on the auction, is this how they run auctions just randomly extending when ever and for whoever they choose
bad business and for that alone really they need to refund and eat the scam
the auction was bogus and not what BIG stands for or is it?
So BIG my question to you is, is this how you run auctions?
The Blue Pills Make Me Happy |
Free2Fly
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 04:09:00 -
[249]
Originally by: Kantar
Edited by: Kantar on 16/12/2004 03:59:14
Free2fly made a good observation there,
the chat between the 2 of them fit better on the original one ( produce by Fret) then the screeny,I just ceck the screeny again and the transfer was made at 4.02 the money were in Tion wallet BUT checkin the log Tion ( when Fret say "ya i got it send the ISK") at 4.27 now if Fret ALREADY PAY IT why she would say " ya i got the char ,send the ISK ?????????
25 minute later she/he forgot that already deposit the 750 mil is his account??
hmmmm
I think you just proved Tion is the scammer here!
Look at the time stamp on the screenshot of when the money was transfered FROM TION to AXEE. It is done at 04:15
Look at the time stamp on the log where Fret supposedly said, 'ya I got the char send the isk'. It is at 04:21!!!
So Tion sent the isk SIX MINUTES BEFORE Fret supposedly said he got the character!!!
Yet TornSoul states that Tion only sent the ISK because he was given the go ahead per the screenshot as proof.
Bull. Either Tion is scamming Fret and lying to BIG about it, or Fret's allegations about BIG corruption have some substance.
|
Free2Fly
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 04:09:00 -
[250]
Originally by: Kantar
Edited by: Kantar on 16/12/2004 03:59:14
Free2fly made a good observation there,
the chat between the 2 of them fit better on the original one ( produce by Fret) then the screeny,I just ceck the screeny again and the transfer was made at 4.02 the money were in Tion wallet BUT checkin the log Tion ( when Fret say "ya i got it send the ISK") at 4.27 now if Fret ALREADY PAY IT why she would say " ya i got the char ,send the ISK ?????????
25 minute later she/he forgot that already deposit the 750 mil is his account??
hmmmm
I think you just proved Tion is the scammer here!
Look at the time stamp on the screenshot of when the money was transfered FROM TION to AXEE. It is done at 04:15
Look at the time stamp on the log where Fret supposedly said, 'ya I got the char send the isk'. It is at 04:21!!!
So Tion sent the isk SIX MINUTES BEFORE Fret supposedly said he got the character!!!
Yet TornSoul states that Tion only sent the ISK because he was given the go ahead per the screenshot as proof.
Bull. Either Tion is scamming Fret and lying to BIG about it, or Fret's allegations about BIG corruption have some substance.
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 04:11:00 -
[251]
Edited by: Fret on 16/12/2004 04:12:13
the reason why i feel BIG is responsible is because this was a BIG sanctioned auction... Blessed by tornsoul herself. The way i see it, if one of thier guys scamed someone using the BIG name...shouldnt they feel somewhat responsible?
axee i believe is probly tion's alt.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 04:11:00 -
[252]
Edited by: Fret on 16/12/2004 04:12:13
the reason why i feel BIG is responsible is because this was a BIG sanctioned auction... Blessed by tornsoul herself. The way i see it, if one of thier guys scamed someone using the BIG name...shouldnt they feel somewhat responsible?
axee i believe is probly tion's alt.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Lord Byron
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 04:27:00 -
[253]
Originally by: Duncan
Originally by: Lord Byron
DAMN , what a PR
I would gladly pay 1 BILL. for such a "scam".
LB check your mailbox, i've got a "character" i want to auction off
Mind beeing the middleman???
Only if it¦s the character of your friend¦s friend
N.A.G.A Corp | NeoCom Site
Lord Byron - Burnt Head
Desire is most likely the shortest road to destruction - but who cares |
Lord Byron
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 04:27:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Duncan
Originally by: Lord Byron
DAMN , what a PR
I would gladly pay 1 BILL. for such a "scam".
LB check your mailbox, i've got a "character" i want to auction off
Mind beeing the middleman???
Only if it¦s the character of your friend¦s friend
N.A.G.A Corp | NeoCom Site
Lord Byron - Burnt Head
Desire is most likely the shortest road to destruction - but who cares |
LordIdaho
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 04:28:00 -
[255]
Has anyone ever considered that they're not going to such lengths for the measely 750 million, but rather, to protect the reprehensible actions of a rogue actions, or a cowardly fear to owe up to a mistake?
ISK isn't such a big issue to a corporation like BIG; image and pride definitely is.
I can only say, BIG has lost ALL my trust and I'll be spreading the word any way I can. Stick with NAGA; they have always worked well with me, and they'll never scam as a small corp.
Out.
|
LordIdaho
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 04:28:00 -
[256]
Has anyone ever considered that they're not going to such lengths for the measely 750 million, but rather, to protect the reprehensible actions of a rogue actions, or a cowardly fear to owe up to a mistake?
ISK isn't such a big issue to a corporation like BIG; image and pride definitely is.
I can only say, BIG has lost ALL my trust and I'll be spreading the word any way I can. Stick with NAGA; they have always worked well with me, and they'll never scam as a small corp.
Out.
|
ariannee
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 04:30:00 -
[257]
all logs and all screenshots can be faked..
until CCP steps in and tells the truth, its just going to go back and forth..
if fret is telling the truth then axee and his friend went through the trouble of faking everything
if fret is lying then its a good scam attempt busted by one simple screenshot
what ccp needs to do is to provide a trade agreement via the website, where the seller can send a trade window type thing and the buyer upon agreeing to the contract would have the isk and character automatically sent to each party.
otherwise ccp has to step in each time for cases like these to clear the air, or everyone will be put off on doing 3rd party support
|
ariannee
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 04:30:00 -
[258]
all logs and all screenshots can be faked..
until CCP steps in and tells the truth, its just going to go back and forth..
if fret is telling the truth then axee and his friend went through the trouble of faking everything
if fret is lying then its a good scam attempt busted by one simple screenshot
what ccp needs to do is to provide a trade agreement via the website, where the seller can send a trade window type thing and the buyer upon agreeing to the contract would have the isk and character automatically sent to each party.
otherwise ccp has to step in each time for cases like these to clear the air, or everyone will be put off on doing 3rd party support
|
Caesium
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 04:39:00 -
[259]
shouldn't someone have a bill of some sort from ccp for the char xfer cost?
|
Caesium
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 04:39:00 -
[260]
shouldn't someone have a bill of some sort from ccp for the char xfer cost?
|
Lord Byron
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 04:45:00 -
[261]
Originally by: Caesium
shouldn't someone have a bill of some sort from ccp for the char xfer cost?
Yes, the seller, who never showedup, should have one.
Now let us hope we see a faked CCP bill... this would be fraud and will allow CCP to take legal action .... this is a thriller guys
N.A.G.A Corp | NeoCom Site
Lord Byron - Burnt Head
Desire is most likely the shortest road to destruction - but who cares |
Lord Byron
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 04:45:00 -
[262]
Originally by: Caesium
shouldn't someone have a bill of some sort from ccp for the char xfer cost?
Yes, the seller, who never showedup, should have one.
Now let us hope we see a faked CCP bill... this would be fraud and will allow CCP to take legal action .... this is a thriller guys
N.A.G.A Corp | NeoCom Site
Lord Byron - Burnt Head
Desire is most likely the shortest road to destruction - but who cares |
Rthor
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 04:53:00 -
[263]
we could also have a.....murder of Axee...
come on give us what we want!!!!
|
Rthor
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 04:53:00 -
[264]
we could also have a.....murder of Axee...
come on give us what we want!!!!
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 05:07:00 -
[265]
yes good point...id love to see a receipt axee, however i can guarantee that one cant be produced...because there was never a transfer
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 05:07:00 -
[266]
yes good point...id love to see a receipt axee, however i can guarantee that one cant be produced...because there was never a transfer
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Falhofnir
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 05:11:00 -
[267]
tbh, tion looks like the scammer in this story. the first fishy part is how he first wants to act as the middleman with a char NOT being tion nor in BIG (evanthe or whatever).
Quote:
[ 2004.12.11 03:55:56 ] Evanthe > I don't have much time before work... other wise I'd stop and switch. ;-)
and
Quote:
[ 2004.12.11 03:57:15 ] Evanthe > well we can wait till I dock?
[ 2004.12.11 03:57:44 ] Evanthe > 40 more jumps lol
just don't go really well together, and i just don't see anyone forgeing that kind of proof on purpose.
the 6 mins between chatlog and cash transfer just adds to that theory.
axee=tion=scammer.
oh yeah, btw, check first page, axee and tion grammar are to say the least, VERY similar.
imo, it's just tion trying to scam away.
hence the fact he wasn't mentioned in the first post by axee, but had to come up with something after tornsoul was made aware of the auction and the use of BIG name.
i don't intend to blame BIG as a corp, i perfectly understand that tornsoul would rather believe his corpmate than a perfect stranger, and is probably truely believing Tion's side of the story.
i say, put GM Columbo on the case !
This was btw a shameful attempt to be part of eve scamadrama #2 (since i never gave money to morbor), and hmm, yeah, i have psychic power, so expect me to be right.
|
Falhofnir
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 05:11:00 -
[268]
tbh, tion looks like the scammer in this story. the first fishy part is how he first wants to act as the middleman with a char NOT being tion nor in BIG (evanthe or whatever).
Quote:
[ 2004.12.11 03:55:56 ] Evanthe > I don't have much time before work... other wise I'd stop and switch. ;-)
and
Quote:
[ 2004.12.11 03:57:15 ] Evanthe > well we can wait till I dock?
[ 2004.12.11 03:57:44 ] Evanthe > 40 more jumps lol
just don't go really well together, and i just don't see anyone forgeing that kind of proof on purpose.
the 6 mins between chatlog and cash transfer just adds to that theory.
axee=tion=scammer.
oh yeah, btw, check first page, axee and tion grammar are to say the least, VERY similar.
imo, it's just tion trying to scam away.
hence the fact he wasn't mentioned in the first post by axee, but had to come up with something after tornsoul was made aware of the auction and the use of BIG name.
i don't intend to blame BIG as a corp, i perfectly understand that tornsoul would rather believe his corpmate than a perfect stranger, and is probably truely believing Tion's side of the story.
i say, put GM Columbo on the case !
This was btw a shameful attempt to be part of eve scamadrama #2 (since i never gave money to morbor), and hmm, yeah, i have psychic power, so expect me to be right.
|
Nike
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 05:35:00 -
[269]
Edited by: Nike on 16/12/2004 05:36:56
Originally by: Falhofnir
tbh, tion looks like the scammer in this story. the first fishy part is how he first wants to act as the middleman with a char NOT being tion nor in BIG (evanthe or whatever).
Quote:
[ 2004.12.11 03:55:56 ] Evanthe > I don't have much time before work... other wise I'd stop and switch. ;-)
and
Quote:
[ 2004.12.11 03:57:15 ] Evanthe > well we can wait till I dock?
[ 2004.12.11 03:57:44 ] Evanthe > 40 more jumps lol
just don't go really well together, and i just don't see anyone forgeing that kind of proof on purpose.
the 6 mins between chatlog and cash transfer just adds to that theory.
axee=tion=scammer.
oh yeah, btw, check first page, axee and tion grammar are to say the least, VERY similar.
imo, it's just tion trying to scam away.
hence the fact he wasn't mentioned in the first post by axee, but had to come up with something after tornsoul was made aware of the auction and the use of BIG name.
i don't intend to blame BIG as a corp, i perfectly understand that tornsoul would rather believe his corpmate than a perfect stranger, and is probably truely believing Tion's side of the story.
i say, put GM Columbo on the case !
This was btw a shameful attempt to be part of eve scamadrama #2 (since i never gave money to morbor), and hmm, yeah, i have psychic power, so expect me to be right.
Actually these observations, and the following
Statement by Mammy
Quote:
Originally by: Maya Rkell
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 16/12/2004 02:07:55
Regardless of how this ends up, it wasn't handled well by the BIG member.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Indeed it wasn't. The BIG member that handled this is a walking disaster.
I've been in a corp with him and he's had his account "borrowed" by his "friends" before while he's on "vacation" and yet he sees no problem that he has just left his corp wide open for corp theft from his supposed "friends". He got another one of his "friends" into the same corp as I was. He later admitted this guy was only looking to steal from the corp. Totally not impressed by this guy.
I see from his corp history that he was in BIG before. Why they would let someone of his caliber not once but twice into their corp is beyond me.
Makes things further interesting.
TornSoul and thus BIG are also victims in a very well planned scam.
|
Nike
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 05:35:00 -
[270]
Edited by: Nike on 16/12/2004 05:36:56
Originally by: Falhofnir
tbh, tion looks like the scammer in this story. the first fishy part is how he first wants to act as the middleman with a char NOT being tion nor in BIG (evanthe or whatever).
Quote:
[ 2004.12.11 03:55:56 ] Evanthe > I don't have much time before work... other wise I'd stop and switch. ;-)
and
Quote:
[ 2004.12.11 03:57:15 ] Evanthe > well we can wait till I dock?
[ 2004.12.11 03:57:44 ] Evanthe > 40 more jumps lol
just don't go really well together, and i just don't see anyone forgeing that kind of proof on purpose.
the 6 mins between chatlog and cash transfer just adds to that theory.
axee=tion=scammer.
oh yeah, btw, check first page, axee and tion grammar are to say the least, VERY similar.
imo, it's just tion trying to scam away.
hence the fact he wasn't mentioned in the first post by axee, but had to come up with something after tornsoul was made aware of the auction and the use of BIG name.
i don't intend to blame BIG as a corp, i perfectly understand that tornsoul would rather believe his corpmate than a perfect stranger, and is probably truely believing Tion's side of the story.
i say, put GM Columbo on the case !
This was btw a shameful attempt to be part of eve scamadrama #2 (since i never gave money to morbor), and hmm, yeah, i have psychic power, so expect me to be right.
Actually these observations, and the following
Statement by Mammy
Quote:
Originally by: Maya Rkell
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 16/12/2004 02:07:55
Regardless of how this ends up, it wasn't handled well by the BIG member.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Indeed it wasn't. The BIG member that handled this is a walking disaster.
I've been in a corp with him and he's had his account "borrowed" by his "friends" before while he's on "vacation" and yet he sees no problem that he has just left his corp wide open for corp theft from his supposed "friends". He got another one of his "friends" into the same corp as I was. He later admitted this guy was only looking to steal from the corp. Totally not impressed by this guy.
I see from his corp history that he was in BIG before. Why they would let someone of his caliber not once but twice into their corp is beyond me.
Makes things further interesting.
TornSoul and thus BIG are also victims in a very well planned scam.
|
H Erectus
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 05:49:00 -
[271]
hey tornsoul, where did you get that screenie again?
cus, it smells like you got took by your own members. fret's side of this story, based on his logs, and the screenshot(the horrible quality screenie) are far more logical. things were said in the screenie that don't make any sense when put up against the timestamps on the isk transfer between the big member and the outsider.
i don't think BIG is the scammer, i think BIG, and fret have both been scammed.
but, thx for the read.
|
H Erectus
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 05:49:00 -
[272]
hey tornsoul, where did you get that screenie again?
cus, it smells like you got took by your own members. fret's side of this story, based on his logs, and the screenshot(the horrible quality screenie) are far more logical. things were said in the screenie that don't make any sense when put up against the timestamps on the isk transfer between the big member and the outsider.
i don't think BIG is the scammer, i think BIG, and fret have both been scammed.
but, thx for the read.
|
2short
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 05:51:00 -
[273]
Edited by: 2short on 16/12/2004 05:57:25
FACTS:
-Fret has been in CA Corps.
-Tion is in an FA Corp.
-Fret offered 750 mil for a character with 12 Mil Skillpoints after the auction had already been over for more than 1 hour.
-Fret used a 3rd party (Tion) to hold the ISK until the character transfer was verified.
-The time stamp on the wire transfer of 750 mil was @ 4:15, before verification of the character transfer (shown by the screenshot taken by Tion).
OPINIONS:
-Reputation is at stake for BIG, while Fret (with a lovely -7.3 sec rating) seems to have no reputation at all (at least before this thread ).
-By, sending the ISK to Axee before the character transfer was verified, Tion is in breach of contract and is liable for the 750 mil owed to Fret if the account was not transferred (only CCP can verify).
-Fret has slandered BIG's reputation without getting resolve from CCP.
-Aside the fact that BIG had provided evidence against itself, the chat logs and screenshots don't matter.
SUMMARY
Both parties in this case are at fault. Fret has resorted to childish means rather than going about this like a business transaction, which is exactly what it was. Tion has shamed the name of BIG by taking part in an auction that did not follow its own stated rules and not following the rules of the ISK transfer.
***Note: IMO, TornSoul acted as any CEO must in this matter, defending her corps reputation (regardless of what really happened).
|
2short
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 05:51:00 -
[274]
Edited by: 2short on 16/12/2004 05:57:25
FACTS:
-Fret has been in CA Corps.
-Tion is in an FA Corp.
-Fret offered 750 mil for a character with 12 Mil Skillpoints after the auction had already been over for more than 1 hour.
-Fret used a 3rd party (Tion) to hold the ISK until the character transfer was verified.
-The time stamp on the wire transfer of 750 mil was @ 4:15, before verification of the character transfer (shown by the screenshot taken by Tion).
OPINIONS:
-Reputation is at stake for BIG, while Fret (with a lovely -7.3 sec rating) seems to have no reputation at all (at least before this thread ).
-By, sending the ISK to Axee before the character transfer was verified, Tion is in breach of contract and is liable for the 750 mil owed to Fret if the account was not transferred (only CCP can verify).
-Fret has slandered BIG's reputation without getting resolve from CCP.
-Aside the fact that BIG had provided evidence against itself, the chat logs and screenshots don't matter.
SUMMARY
Both parties in this case are at fault. Fret has resorted to childish means rather than going about this like a business transaction, which is exactly what it was. Tion has shamed the name of BIG by taking part in an auction that did not follow its own stated rules and not following the rules of the ISK transfer.
***Note: IMO, TornSoul acted as any CEO must in this matter, defending her corps reputation (regardless of what really happened).
|
XeroBeagle
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 05:54:00 -
[275]
Edited by: XeroBeagle on 16/12/2004 05:55:31
not that this is any of my business BUT, on that chat log where it says the times its says 04:21:50 ok, BUT on the screenie it says last message recived 04:21:45, But in actually fact the last msg SUPPOSEDLY recieved was 4:21:50 . im just wonderin how thats possible lol
|
XeroBeagle
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 05:54:00 -
[276]
Edited by: XeroBeagle on 16/12/2004 05:55:31
not that this is any of my business BUT, on that chat log where it says the times its says 04:21:50 ok, BUT on the screenie it says last message recived 04:21:45, But in actually fact the last msg SUPPOSEDLY recieved was 4:21:50 . im just wonderin how thats possible lol
|
Psychomar
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 05:59:00 -
[277]
I agree this looks like Tion scammed both Fret and Tornsoul.
I think Tion should allow Tornsoul to see his wallet firsthand somehow. It seems clear to me those times dont match up and he did send the money before Fret allegedly said she got the character.
Something is definitely crooked here.
|
Psychomar
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 05:59:00 -
[278]
I agree this looks like Tion scammed both Fret and Tornsoul.
I think Tion should allow Tornsoul to see his wallet firsthand somehow. It seems clear to me those times dont match up and he did send the money before Fret allegedly said she got the character.
Something is definitely crooked here.
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 06:00:00 -
[279]
please share with me what i have done that is childish? I have reacted as anyone would that is being slandered and lost 750 million isk... I am not trash talking...just stating the truth
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 06:00:00 -
[280]
please share with me what i have done that is childish? I have reacted as anyone would that is being slandered and lost 750 million isk... I am not trash talking...just stating the truth
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Mammy
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 06:00:00 -
[281]
Edited by: Mammy on 16/12/2004 06:01:47
Originally by: Vaio
Edited by: Vaio on 08/12/2004 20:00:27
i retract my bid.
OMG, didn't see this before. This is the one in the very same guy that wanted to steal from my corp (with Tion?). Did he learn of Tion's scam from Tion and retract the bid??
Lo and behold they have been in several corps together (1 with me) at the same time. Both of these guys reek of something...
edit. clarified
|
Mammy
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 06:00:00 -
[282]
Edited by: Mammy on 16/12/2004 06:01:47
Originally by: Vaio
Edited by: Vaio on 08/12/2004 20:00:27
i retract my bid.
OMG, didn't see this before. This is the one in the very same guy that wanted to steal from my corp (with Tion?). Did he learn of Tion's scam from Tion and retract the bid??
Lo and behold they have been in several corps together (1 with me) at the same time. Both of these guys reek of something...
edit. clarified
|
XeroBeagle
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 06:02:00 -
[283]
Fret @ Frist i thought u was wrong but it seems the tables haves turned in some wierd way,
|
XeroBeagle
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 06:02:00 -
[284]
Fret @ Frist i thought u was wrong but it seems the tables haves turned in some wierd way,
|
Monkeh
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 06:09:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Free2Fly
HereÆs what Fret claims was said:
[ 2004.12.11 04:19:16 ] Tion > I hope so too Or I'm going to get one hell of a spanking from TornSoul
[ 2004.12.11 04:19:37 ] Fret > well he is your rl friend so lets hope not
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:18 ] Fret > if i dont have the character by next server reboot, ill be contacting tornsoul
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:47 ] Tion > eve mail me and I'll send you your ISK back :)
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:57 ] Fret > i have transfered characters many times....i have never recieved a wait, it is usualy instant
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:19 ] Tion > I do not know because I've never done it that is starnge for sure
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:27 ] Fret > but hopefuly i get the char...after all thts what i want the most
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:40 ] Fret > ty for your help sir, i have to go to lunch
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:43 ] Fret > ill be in touch
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:44 ] Tion > yes it's a nice char
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:50 ] Tion > ok enjoy your lunch
HereÆs what the screen shot shows:
[ 2004.12.11 04:19:16 ] Tion > I hope so too Or I'm going to get one hell of a spanking from TornSoul
[ 2004.12.11 04:19:37 ] Fret > well he is your rl friend so lets hope not
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:18 ] Fret > if i dont have the character by next server reboot, ill be contacting tornsoul
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:47 ] Tion > eve mail me and I'll send you your ISK back :)
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:57 ] Fret > i have transfered characters many times....i have never recieved a wait, it is usualy instant
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:19 ] Tion > I do not know because I've never done it that is starnge for sure
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:27 ] Fret > Ya i got the charecter, send the ISK
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:40 ] Fret > ty for your help sir, i have to go to lunch
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:43 ] Fret > ill be in touch
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:44 ] Tion > yes it's a nice char
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:50 ] Tion > ok enjoy your lunch
Everything is the same except for the line at timestamp 04:21:27
Now, letÆs examine FretÆs version:
He is talking about how heÆs transferred characters many times and itÆs strange it is taking so long. Remember that Tion stated earlier it could take up to 24 hours when we all know thatÆs not how long it takes (several have posted itÆs instant). Now, Tion says, he doesnÆt know because heÆs never done this procedure, but agrees it IS strange for sure. Continuing his train of thought, Fret then says he BUT he does hopes he gets the character after all thatÆs what he really wants, implying that despite his worries, he really wants it to go through. A few seconds later, before Tion can reply, he states ty for your help and he has to go to lunch now, and heÆll be in touch (obviously in regards to the lack of a character transfer). Tion, catching up with the convo states, ôyes itÆs a nice char" in obvious response to FretÆs statement that he really hopes he can just get the character, and then states enjoy your lunch.
I can see NO REASON why Tion would make the comment in regards to the character being nice, which fits perfectly in context with FretÆs logs in which he stated ôbut hopefuly i get the char...after all thts what i want the mostö. His comments about the character being nice DO NOT fit in any reasonable way within the context that the supposed screen shot provides, where Fret suddenly states ôya I got the character.ö
Why then would he need to be in touch? He got the character, end of story.
IÆm sorry, that screen shot just wreaks of editing. ItÆs like doing a voice over a swear word on a television broad cast, where you just KNOW thatÆs not what the character was really saying because it was so stupidly out of context.
I donÆt buy it. That screen shot is a sham. It is also so over compressed it can not be inspected for editing. Tion didnÆt scam just Fret, he scammed TornSoul, and TornSoul, unless holding back other info/proof, bought into his/her corp memberÆs story too easily.
Look at either screenshot again, check the time stamp on the transfer of funds from Tion to Axee, might be nothing but if it was my isk I'd be asking why it was transfered 5-6 minutes before I'd authorized it...
|
Monkeh
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 06:09:00 -
[286]
Originally by: Free2Fly
HereÆs what Fret claims was said:
[ 2004.12.11 04:19:16 ] Tion > I hope so too Or I'm going to get one hell of a spanking from TornSoul
[ 2004.12.11 04:19:37 ] Fret > well he is your rl friend so lets hope not
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:18 ] Fret > if i dont have the character by next server reboot, ill be contacting tornsoul
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:47 ] Tion > eve mail me and I'll send you your ISK back :)
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:57 ] Fret > i have transfered characters many times....i have never recieved a wait, it is usualy instant
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:19 ] Tion > I do not know because I've never done it that is starnge for sure
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:27 ] Fret > but hopefuly i get the char...after all thts what i want the most
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:40 ] Fret > ty for your help sir, i have to go to lunch
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:43 ] Fret > ill be in touch
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:44 ] Tion > yes it's a nice char
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:50 ] Tion > ok enjoy your lunch
HereÆs what the screen shot shows:
[ 2004.12.11 04:19:16 ] Tion > I hope so too Or I'm going to get one hell of a spanking from TornSoul
[ 2004.12.11 04:19:37 ] Fret > well he is your rl friend so lets hope not
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:18 ] Fret > if i dont have the character by next server reboot, ill be contacting tornsoul
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:47 ] Tion > eve mail me and I'll send you your ISK back :)
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:57 ] Fret > i have transfered characters many times....i have never recieved a wait, it is usualy instant
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:19 ] Tion > I do not know because I've never done it that is starnge for sure
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:27 ] Fret > Ya i got the charecter, send the ISK
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:40 ] Fret > ty for your help sir, i have to go to lunch
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:43 ] Fret > ill be in touch
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:44 ] Tion > yes it's a nice char
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:50 ] Tion > ok enjoy your lunch
Everything is the same except for the line at timestamp 04:21:27
Now, letÆs examine FretÆs version:
He is talking about how heÆs transferred characters many times and itÆs strange it is taking so long. Remember that Tion stated earlier it could take up to 24 hours when we all know thatÆs not how long it takes (several have posted itÆs instant). Now, Tion says, he doesnÆt know because heÆs never done this procedure, but agrees it IS strange for sure. Continuing his train of thought, Fret then says he BUT he does hopes he gets the character after all thatÆs what he really wants, implying that despite his worries, he really wants it to go through. A few seconds later, before Tion can reply, he states ty for your help and he has to go to lunch now, and heÆll be in touch (obviously in regards to the lack of a character transfer). Tion, catching up with the convo states, ôyes itÆs a nice char" in obvious response to FretÆs statement that he really hopes he can just get the character, and then states enjoy your lunch.
I can see NO REASON why Tion would make the comment in regards to the character being nice, which fits perfectly in context with FretÆs logs in which he stated ôbut hopefuly i get the char...after all thts what i want the mostö. His comments about the character being nice DO NOT fit in any reasonable way within the context that the supposed screen shot provides, where Fret suddenly states ôya I got the character.ö
Why then would he need to be in touch? He got the character, end of story.
IÆm sorry, that screen shot just wreaks of editing. ItÆs like doing a voice over a swear word on a television broad cast, where you just KNOW thatÆs not what the character was really saying because it was so stupidly out of context.
I donÆt buy it. That screen shot is a sham. It is also so over compressed it can not be inspected for editing. Tion didnÆt scam just Fret, he scammed TornSoul, and TornSoul, unless holding back other info/proof, bought into his/her corp memberÆs story too easily.
Look at either screenshot again, check the time stamp on the transfer of funds from Tion to Axee, might be nothing but if it was my isk I'd be asking why it was transfered 5-6 minutes before I'd authorized it...
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 06:26:00 -
[287]
Thier times simply dont add up...all i know is what i have shared with all in the eve general conversation forums, it is the absolute truth to what happened on that day. I wish that TornSoul had put as much effort in finding the the truth as she seem to put into finding a way to believe her corp member.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 06:26:00 -
[288]
Thier times simply dont add up...all i know is what i have shared with all in the eve general conversation forums, it is the absolute truth to what happened on that day. I wish that TornSoul had put as much effort in finding the the truth as she seem to put into finding a way to believe her corp member.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Borgonaheim
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 06:32:00 -
[289]
We won't see CCP get involved in this.
It's becoming more apparant that fret has been scammed, and with the credibility of BIG tied to the credibility of Eve-Online (by having CCP endorsing the lotteries), CCP simply will not assist in discrediting BIG.
If the word gets out that Eve-Online endorses a scamming or even a suspected scamming corp or individual within the corp, then that is a major red mark against the game.
It wouldn't surprise me if this has been resolved behind closed doors, and we will never know.
|
Borgonaheim
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 06:32:00 -
[290]
We won't see CCP get involved in this.
It's becoming more apparant that fret has been scammed, and with the credibility of BIG tied to the credibility of Eve-Online (by having CCP endorsing the lotteries), CCP simply will not assist in discrediting BIG.
If the word gets out that Eve-Online endorses a scamming or even a suspected scamming corp or individual within the corp, then that is a major red mark against the game.
It wouldn't surprise me if this has been resolved behind closed doors, and we will never know.
|
jamesw
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 06:43:00 -
[291]
Edited by: jamesw on 16/12/2004 06:44:39
Edited by: jamesw on 16/12/2004 06:43:31
I am not inclined to take sides in this arena, however one thing sprung to mind when I read the discussion about how the chatlogs show payment ocurring earlier than the chat logs supposedly show....
Yes, screenshots can be faked, and yes chatlogs can be faked...
However, by simply changing the times in the timestamps of the chat logs, Fret would be able to make it seem like he said things later than they actually happened. If he was trying to scam BIG in this fasion, he would probably have worked out that there would be a bit of an episode on the forums... Knowing this, he could edit the timestamps in one crucial area of the chatlogs to discredit any screenshot showing the time that money was transferred.
On the other hand, of course, Tion could have edited the screenshot and used some heavy JPEG compression to mask out any overlaps. Also, whats the deal with the gaps above Tion's portrait in the chatlog (twice). Edit: just realised it was due to line-breaks in the chat lines above, never mind me
Who knows???
--
jamesw
Rubra Libertas Militia
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
|
jamesw
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 06:43:00 -
[292]
Edited by: jamesw on 16/12/2004 06:44:39
Edited by: jamesw on 16/12/2004 06:43:31
I am not inclined to take sides in this arena, however one thing sprung to mind when I read the discussion about how the chatlogs show payment ocurring earlier than the chat logs supposedly show....
Yes, screenshots can be faked, and yes chatlogs can be faked...
However, by simply changing the times in the timestamps of the chat logs, Fret would be able to make it seem like he said things later than they actually happened. If he was trying to scam BIG in this fasion, he would probably have worked out that there would be a bit of an episode on the forums... Knowing this, he could edit the timestamps in one crucial area of the chatlogs to discredit any screenshot showing the time that money was transferred.
On the other hand, of course, Tion could have edited the screenshot and used some heavy JPEG compression to mask out any overlaps. Also, whats the deal with the gaps above Tion's portrait in the chatlog (twice). Edit: just realised it was due to line-breaks in the chat lines above, never mind me
Who knows???
--
jamesw
Rubra Libertas Militia
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
|
Zolcan
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 06:58:00 -
[293]
Well if there was a scam here it looks like a good one. Either way I'd like to see some uncompressed pictures of Tions wallet and the wide angle pic to really see if there was some shady editing going on.
Im sorry but this just seems to "neat" a package for BIG. The entire Eve community respects BIG and their lotteries. Their reputation is at stake here. Show us the uncompressed pictures!
Zolcan
|
Zolcan
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 06:58:00 -
[294]
Well if there was a scam here it looks like a good one. Either way I'd like to see some uncompressed pictures of Tions wallet and the wide angle pic to really see if there was some shady editing going on.
Im sorry but this just seems to "neat" a package for BIG. The entire Eve community respects BIG and their lotteries. Their reputation is at stake here. Show us the uncompressed pictures!
Zolcan
|
Nike
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 07:04:00 -
[295]
The entire discussion took place in "big" channel, so Tion and any other BIG members or other visitors would also have the logs, no ?
It really shouldnt be that hard to verify what actually happend, unless of course alot of chat logs is in the progress of gettin changed
This is ofcourse not the case if its not an official BIG channel, and noone but Tion and Fret where present at the time.
It would also be possible to get a much better SS, no ?
The default screen dump in eve is made without any compression, so that would also be something that could made public.
The fact that the actual SS posted in such a lousy compression and that it also had been processed and certain parts encircled, maked the validity of the SS questionable. It really doesnt take much practice with photoshop and a "right" choice of compression to make things seem like something they are not.
I do however NOT think that TornSoul, or BIG as a corp was in anyway directly involved in this "SCAM", but it will be a serious blow to them to admit that one of their members took part in such a scam.
If that is the case.
Theres also the possibilty that Fret and Axee is the same person, trying to discredit Tion and/or BIG...
Who knows......
|
Nike
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 07:04:00 -
[296]
The entire discussion took place in "big" channel, so Tion and any other BIG members or other visitors would also have the logs, no ?
It really shouldnt be that hard to verify what actually happend, unless of course alot of chat logs is in the progress of gettin changed
This is ofcourse not the case if its not an official BIG channel, and noone but Tion and Fret where present at the time.
It would also be possible to get a much better SS, no ?
The default screen dump in eve is made without any compression, so that would also be something that could made public.
The fact that the actual SS posted in such a lousy compression and that it also had been processed and certain parts encircled, maked the validity of the SS questionable. It really doesnt take much practice with photoshop and a "right" choice of compression to make things seem like something they are not.
I do however NOT think that TornSoul, or BIG as a corp was in anyway directly involved in this "SCAM", but it will be a serious blow to them to admit that one of their members took part in such a scam.
If that is the case.
Theres also the possibilty that Fret and Axee is the same person, trying to discredit Tion and/or BIG...
Who knows......
|
Quell Shriker
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 07:12:00 -
[297]
Edited by: Quell Shriker on 16/12/2004 07:15:10
I'm just curious,..
Do you get a message saying it may take 24 hours to transfer a character?
both sides agre to this comment being passed.
Its how You'd cover the char not being delivered for room to breath.
|
Quell Shriker
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 07:12:00 -
[298]
Edited by: Quell Shriker on 16/12/2004 07:15:10
I'm just curious,..
Do you get a message saying it may take 24 hours to transfer a character?
both sides agre to this comment being passed.
Its how You'd cover the char not being delivered for room to breath.
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 07:13:00 -
[299]
Edited by: Fret on 16/12/2004 07:14:45
Well i am certainly not axee, Tion, and tornsoul have both verified in this post that axee is Tion's real life friend... Remember Tion was doing his friend a "favor". Just have a look at page one of this post.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 07:13:00 -
[300]
Edited by: Fret on 16/12/2004 07:14:45
Well i am certainly not axee, Tion, and tornsoul have both verified in this post that axee is Tion's real life friend... Remember Tion was doing his friend a "favor". Just have a look at page one of this post.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Marie Sklodowska
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 07:14:00 -
[301]
Holy Alt Posting Batman!
www.eve-search.com | www.myevebay.com |
Marie Sklodowska
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 07:14:00 -
[302]
Holy Alt Posting Batman!
www.eve-search.com | www.myevebay.com |
VeniVidi Vici
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 07:34:00 -
[303]
Originally by: Monkeh
Look at either screenshot again, check the time stamp on the transfer of funds from Tion to Axee, might be nothing but if it was my isk I'd be asking why it was transfered 5-6 minutes before I'd authorized it...
how can you tell that the isk was transfered to Axee before Fret said he got the char according to the ss? i see 4 other posts after Fret apparently said he got the char and at the top is says that the last post was made at 4:21:49. it is plausible to think that those 4 posts were made after 4:15 as the wallets suggests when the isk was transfered.
???
-------------------
http://cys.net.au |
VeniVidi Vici
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 07:34:00 -
[304]
Originally by: Monkeh
Look at either screenshot again, check the time stamp on the transfer of funds from Tion to Axee, might be nothing but if it was my isk I'd be asking why it was transfered 5-6 minutes before I'd authorized it...
how can you tell that the isk was transfered to Axee before Fret said he got the char according to the ss? i see 4 other posts after Fret apparently said he got the char and at the top is says that the last post was made at 4:21:49. it is plausible to think that those 4 posts were made after 4:15 as the wallets suggests when the isk was transfered.
???
-------------------
http://cys.net.au |
Lettuce Prey
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 07:48:00 -
[305]
when did BIG get so low on cash that they need to go looking for this small amount of money?
if BIG needed to run a scam for cash, they have the lottory, and the big deal.
they could quietly take much more than that from those places, and not have to deal with someone, anyone, screamining about it.
so just on the face of things, if i wanted to belive that BIG is a scammer, i would think that they could get much more from these other places.
but more importantly, is BIG really so broke that they NEED this small amount of cash?
i think not
nuff sed |
Lettuce Prey
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 07:48:00 -
[306]
when did BIG get so low on cash that they need to go looking for this small amount of money?
if BIG needed to run a scam for cash, they have the lottory, and the big deal.
they could quietly take much more than that from those places, and not have to deal with someone, anyone, screamining about it.
so just on the face of things, if i wanted to belive that BIG is a scammer, i would think that they could get much more from these other places.
but more importantly, is BIG really so broke that they NEED this small amount of cash?
i think not
nuff sed |
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 08:02:00 -
[307]
As i have said before... I dont think tis is a "BIG" scam, i think tornsoul has been misguided by tion, or at the worst there is a cover up to protect the BIG name. At any rate i cant say it enough...ITS NOT ABOUT THE ISK ANYMORE, ITS ABOUT THE TRUTH, I want the truth to be known. I was scammed this is a fact. Who did it for what reasons i dont know but all i ahve now is my word being that now most of my isk is gone...and i will fight to keep a clear name.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 08:02:00 -
[308]
As i have said before... I dont think tis is a "BIG" scam, i think tornsoul has been misguided by tion, or at the worst there is a cover up to protect the BIG name. At any rate i cant say it enough...ITS NOT ABOUT THE ISK ANYMORE, ITS ABOUT THE TRUTH, I want the truth to be known. I was scammed this is a fact. Who did it for what reasons i dont know but all i ahve now is my word being that now most of my isk is gone...and i will fight to keep a clear name.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Monkeh
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 08:30:00 -
[309]
I can't Veni, I can only interpret the evidence we're presented with which the only timestamps came from Fret's chatlogs on the other post and Tornsoul's posted screenshots - which was BIG's proof of Fret's guilt. Tornsoul's quote of chat wasn't timestamped.
Quote:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Channel ID: 2100001042
Channel Name: big
Listener: Fret
Session started: 2004.12.11 04:08:35
---------------------------------------------------------------
[ 2004.12.11 04:11:19 ] Tion > sorry crashed
[ 2004.12.11 04:11:45 ] Tion > Just eve mail me if it doesn't come I'll send your ISK back. I'm working nights right now and Someimes I'm to tired to get on.
[ 2004.12.11 04:14:53 ] Fret > no i didnt recieve it yet
[ 2004.12.11 04:15:09 ] Fret > i dont like the way he loged either
[ 2004.12.11 04:15:16 ] Fret > thats not good business
[ 2004.12.11 04:15:32 ] Fret > even if he is genuine it still looks bad
[ 2004.12.11 04:15:42 ] Tion > yes it does.
[ 2004.12.11 04:15:47 ] Tion > We'll wait and see
[ 2004.12.11 04:15:52 ] Fret > indeed
[ 2004.12.11 04:15:58 ] Fret > do u know him?
[ 2004.12.11 04:17:20 ] Tion > Well He's a friend of my friend. (RL)
[ 2004.12.11 04:17:29 ] Tion > Other wise I'd never have agreed to this
[ 2004.12.11 04:17:34 ] Tion > I got into a LOT of trouble
[ 2004.12.11 04:17:41 ] Tion > for agreeing to do it in the first place.
[ 2004.12.11 04:18:44 ] Fret > well i trust you only because u are a member of BIG, i hope your friend would not try to cheat me
[ 2004.12.11 04:19:16 ] Tion > I hope so too Or I'm going to get one hell of a spanking from TornSoul
[ 2004.12.11 04:19:37 ] Fret > well he is your rl friend so lets hope not
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:18 ] Fret > if i dont have the character by next server reboot, ill be contacting tornsoul
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:47 ] Tion > eve mail me and I'll send you your ISK back :)
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:57 ] Fret > i have transfered characters many times....i have never recieved a wait, it is usualy instant
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:19 ] Tion > I do not know because I've never done it that is starnge for sure
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:27 ] Fret > but hopefuly i get the char...after all thts what i want the most
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:40 ] Fret > ty for your help sir, i have to go to lunch
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:43 ] Fret > ill be in touch
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:44 ] Tion > yes it's a nice char
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:50 ] Tion > ok enjoy your lunch
Now if we had uncompressed .bmp wallet screengrabs of the original transaction from Fret to Tion, Tion to Axee and Axee receiving the isk from Tion, and 3rd party chat logs with time stamps from other people in the BIG channel at the time this convo was happening then it would be a different matter and very easy to put it all together, and should have been what Tornsoul based the final verdict on.
I can see a lot more inconsistancies with the limited evidence here already but tbh if I countinue I'd then be getting more involved than I want to be. This should have been kept behind closed doors or left petitioned so someone who can track the evidence from untampered server logs could tell you (or simply check if the credit card transaction and char transfer order took place and answer if you we're scammed or not).
|
Monkeh
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 08:30:00 -
[310]
I can't Veni, I can only interpret the evidence we're presented with which the only timestamps came from Fret's chatlogs on the other post and Tornsoul's posted screenshots - which was BIG's proof of Fret's guilt. Tornsoul's quote of chat wasn't timestamped.
Quote:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Channel ID: 2100001042
Channel Name: big
Listener: Fret
Session started: 2004.12.11 04:08:35
---------------------------------------------------------------
[ 2004.12.11 04:11:19 ] Tion > sorry crashed
[ 2004.12.11 04:11:45 ] Tion > Just eve mail me if it doesn't come I'll send your ISK back. I'm working nights right now and Someimes I'm to tired to get on.
[ 2004.12.11 04:14:53 ] Fret > no i didnt recieve it yet
[ 2004.12.11 04:15:09 ] Fret > i dont like the way he loged either
[ 2004.12.11 04:15:16 ] Fret > thats not good business
[ 2004.12.11 04:15:32 ] Fret > even if he is genuine it still looks bad
[ 2004.12.11 04:15:42 ] Tion > yes it does.
[ 2004.12.11 04:15:47 ] Tion > We'll wait and see
[ 2004.12.11 04:15:52 ] Fret > indeed
[ 2004.12.11 04:15:58 ] Fret > do u know him?
[ 2004.12.11 04:17:20 ] Tion > Well He's a friend of my friend. (RL)
[ 2004.12.11 04:17:29 ] Tion > Other wise I'd never have agreed to this
[ 2004.12.11 04:17:34 ] Tion > I got into a LOT of trouble
[ 2004.12.11 04:17:41 ] Tion > for agreeing to do it in the first place.
[ 2004.12.11 04:18:44 ] Fret > well i trust you only because u are a member of BIG, i hope your friend would not try to cheat me
[ 2004.12.11 04:19:16 ] Tion > I hope so too Or I'm going to get one hell of a spanking from TornSoul
[ 2004.12.11 04:19:37 ] Fret > well he is your rl friend so lets hope not
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:18 ] Fret > if i dont have the character by next server reboot, ill be contacting tornsoul
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:47 ] Tion > eve mail me and I'll send you your ISK back :)
[ 2004.12.11 04:20:57 ] Fret > i have transfered characters many times....i have never recieved a wait, it is usualy instant
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:19 ] Tion > I do not know because I've never done it that is starnge for sure
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:27 ] Fret > but hopefuly i get the char...after all thts what i want the most
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:40 ] Fret > ty for your help sir, i have to go to lunch
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:43 ] Fret > ill be in touch
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:44 ] Tion > yes it's a nice char
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:50 ] Tion > ok enjoy your lunch
Now if we had uncompressed .bmp wallet screengrabs of the original transaction from Fret to Tion, Tion to Axee and Axee receiving the isk from Tion, and 3rd party chat logs with time stamps from other people in the BIG channel at the time this convo was happening then it would be a different matter and very easy to put it all together, and should have been what Tornsoul based the final verdict on.
I can see a lot more inconsistancies with the limited evidence here already but tbh if I countinue I'd then be getting more involved than I want to be. This should have been kept behind closed doors or left petitioned so someone who can track the evidence from untampered server logs could tell you (or simply check if the credit card transaction and char transfer order took place and answer if you we're scammed or not).
|
TommySpanky
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 08:33:00 -
[311]
Originally by: Lord Byron
DAMN , what a PR
I would gladly pay 1 BILL. for such a "scam".
I think Lord byron might be onto something
|
TommySpanky
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 08:33:00 -
[312]
Originally by: Lord Byron
DAMN , what a PR
I would gladly pay 1 BILL. for such a "scam".
I think Lord byron might be onto something
|
Pentara
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 08:50:00 -
[313]
Edited by: Pentara on 16/12/2004 09:36:24
I think Fret probably got scammed by Axee, not by Big. Else, why the coverup?
I don't believe Big had anything to do with the scam. They are most likely just trying to preserve their reputation or they believed a member over evidence. Now it's too late to go back and say oops.
I'm not sure if Tion is trying to save his reputation from a case of bad luck or his butt from some more nefarious actions.
But, the screenshot is altered. Open Photoshop and zoom in a little, and you can see that the one line of text in contention has a line of dark pixels separating the text from the wallet overview, while all the other lines which continue behind the wallet have the text merging into the wallet.
Here is a zoomed view showing 3 unaltered lines and the 1 line in question with the mysterious black barrier where white pixels from the half covered letter e should be.
Zoomed View
|
Pentara
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 08:50:00 -
[314]
Edited by: Pentara on 16/12/2004 09:36:24
I think Fret probably got scammed by Axee, not by Big. Else, why the coverup?
I don't believe Big had anything to do with the scam. They are most likely just trying to preserve their reputation or they believed a member over evidence. Now it's too late to go back and say oops.
I'm not sure if Tion is trying to save his reputation from a case of bad luck or his butt from some more nefarious actions.
But, the screenshot is altered. Open Photoshop and zoom in a little, and you can see that the one line of text in contention has a line of dark pixels separating the text from the wallet overview, while all the other lines which continue behind the wallet have the text merging into the wallet.
Here is a zoomed view showing 3 unaltered lines and the 1 line in question with the mysterious black barrier where white pixels from the half covered letter e should be.
Zoomed View
|
Riddari
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 08:55:00 -
[315]
We need Angela Lansbury!
¼©¼
a history |
Riddari
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 08:55:00 -
[316]
We need Angela Lansbury!
¼©¼
a history |
fallen killer
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 09:01:00 -
[317]
Well Done Tornsoul
Another scammer caught
FRET give it up you tried and failed looser
I see all the BIG/FA bashers are trying to clutch at straws
pathetic the evidence is overwhelming
|
fallen killer
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 09:01:00 -
[318]
Well Done Tornsoul
Another scammer caught
FRET give it up you tried and failed looser
I see all the BIG/FA bashers are trying to clutch at straws
pathetic the evidence is overwhelming
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 09:16:00 -
[319]
oh my god, this is so unreal
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 09:16:00 -
[320]
oh my god, this is so unreal
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Chepe Nolon
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 09:23:00 -
[321]
Well done BIG. Nice investigation there. Remember that screenshots can be tampered with too, but it's much harder than a log.
Originally by: Fret
oh my god, this is so unreal
Yes, it's eve.
|
Chepe Nolon
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 09:23:00 -
[322]
Well done BIG. Nice investigation there. Remember that screenshots can be tampered with too, but it's much harder than a log.
Originally by: Fret
oh my god, this is so unreal
Yes, it's eve.
|
Mrs Hauler
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 09:41:00 -
[323]
Fret
Your "im too stupid to use a computer - look at me im all innocent and niave" doesn't wash
Who are you -- (nobody)
who is BIG -- (Well known corp with proven track record that deal in many billions)
Frankly love him or hate him Tornsoul wouldn't stoop to this crap - your trying to convince 20k of players that he would do a total u-turn for no apparent reason that protecting a member or stealing some ISK -well this is one player that you won't convince. He said at the beginning of the thread char transfer is not something he wants his corp to do - now we see why scammers like you targetting the T2 corps to try and damage thier rep -- well done you have just improved it 100 fold.
To Tornsoul - fantastic work and the funniest story I've read for a long time.
This coupled with the evidence given = Fret you are a total idiot - that screenshot shoots you down in flames -
You gave it a try and failed - move on nothing more to do here.
PS if there is a conspiracy here then try these
are you and axee in this together ?
was it your intention to attack BIG rather than go for the 750 mill- who's backing you?
Are you that bitter and twisted that when caught you cant actually admit it?
Did you get your account from ebay?
When are you gonna admit that your caught and stop giving BIG's reputation an increase instead of doing the damage you intend?
|
Mrs Hauler
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 09:41:00 -
[324]
Fret
Your "im too stupid to use a computer - look at me im all innocent and niave" doesn't wash
Who are you -- (nobody)
who is BIG -- (Well known corp with proven track record that deal in many billions)
Frankly love him or hate him Tornsoul wouldn't stoop to this crap - your trying to convince 20k of players that he would do a total u-turn for no apparent reason that protecting a member or stealing some ISK -well this is one player that you won't convince. He said at the beginning of the thread char transfer is not something he wants his corp to do - now we see why scammers like you targetting the T2 corps to try and damage thier rep -- well done you have just improved it 100 fold.
To Tornsoul - fantastic work and the funniest story I've read for a long time.
This coupled with the evidence given = Fret you are a total idiot - that screenshot shoots you down in flames -
You gave it a try and failed - move on nothing more to do here.
PS if there is a conspiracy here then try these
are you and axee in this together ?
was it your intention to attack BIG rather than go for the 750 mill- who's backing you?
Are you that bitter and twisted that when caught you cant actually admit it?
Did you get your account from ebay?
When are you gonna admit that your caught and stop giving BIG's reputation an increase instead of doing the damage you intend?
|
Captain blackadder
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 09:44:00 -
[325]
ROFL
Great work Tornsoul
|
Captain blackadder
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 09:44:00 -
[326]
ROFL
Great work Tornsoul
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 09:56:00 -
[327]
wow, is everyone computer savy that plays this game? Am i naive for not being able to use computers? Or am i naive for falling for a scam? I am not attacking BIG!!! I am attacking whomever scamed me....JESUS!!!!
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 09:56:00 -
[328]
wow, is everyone computer savy that plays this game? Am i naive for not being able to use computers? Or am i naive for falling for a scam? I am not attacking BIG!!! I am attacking whomever scamed me....JESUS!!!!
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Boffin
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 10:12:00 -
[329]
Edited by: Boffin on 16/12/2004 10:59:55
Edited by: Boffin on 16/12/2004 10:14:33
This looks to me like a well constructed Scam, the difficult thing is determining who is doing the scamming and who is being scammed.
Usually when someone has been scammed they end up losing something, and the person that Scams comes away with a gain and then goes into hiding.
Fret has proved that she hast lost 750 million
BIG is in danger of losing reputation
Tion is in danger of losing reputation and membership to BIG
Axee - has gained 750 million ISK and is notably absent
Tion and Tornsoul have admitted that Axee and Tion are RL firends so we can assume some collusion between the two.
As far as i can see the only way that fret could be scamming is if in fact it was in collusion with Tion and Axee and thus would mean the 3 of them have tried to scam Big.
I say this because if Fret was not involved in the Scam she would have no way of knowing/ensuring that Axee would bring in the "it says it is going to take 24 hours remark" which in essence ensured the Scam could be played out.
i.e If the transaction happened immediately (as Fret was expecting) then Fret would have said ok i got the character thx, Tion would have sent Axee the ISK, everyone satisfied,end of story, the delay was instigated by Tion, as everyone has stated, normally this transaction happens straight away.
In fact Tornsoul uses this to defend Tion
Quote:
I'm sure this is not the first time for you. (You have by your own admission made alot of char transfers, and seems to know they happen instantly).
Ask yourselves this. Where would Fret have gone with the scam if the transfer had happened immediately ?
Also i may be off the mark on this, but if i open my wallet and look at the transactions in "Journal", i get a damn sight more transactions than Tion seems to have - could be more proof that the image has been doctored ?
I think that BIG and Fret have been worked over by Tion and Axee, the only other variation would be Tion, Axee AND Fret have tried to work one over on BIG by shifting 750,000 ISK between the three of them.
I genuinely cannot see BIG embarking on this Scam, but it does make you wonder a little about the integrity of their members.
Who reading these forums would be happy for Tion to act as a middle man ?...............not me.
|
Boffin
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 10:12:00 -
[330]
Edited by: Boffin on 16/12/2004 10:59:55
Edited by: Boffin on 16/12/2004 10:14:33
This looks to me like a well constructed Scam, the difficult thing is determining who is doing the scamming and who is being scammed.
Usually when someone has been scammed they end up losing something, and the person that Scams comes away with a gain and then goes into hiding.
Fret has proved that she hast lost 750 million
BIG is in danger of losing reputation
Tion is in danger of losing reputation and membership to BIG
Axee - has gained 750 million ISK and is notably absent
Tion and Tornsoul have admitted that Axee and Tion are RL firends so we can assume some collusion between the two.
As far as i can see the only way that fret could be scamming is if in fact it was in collusion with Tion and Axee and thus would mean the 3 of them have tried to scam Big.
I say this because if Fret was not involved in the Scam she would have no way of knowing/ensuring that Axee would bring in the "it says it is going to take 24 hours remark" which in essence ensured the Scam could be played out.
i.e If the transaction happened immediately (as Fret was expecting) then Fret would have said ok i got the character thx, Tion would have sent Axee the ISK, everyone satisfied,end of story, the delay was instigated by Tion, as everyone has stated, normally this transaction happens straight away.
In fact Tornsoul uses this to defend Tion
Quote:
I'm sure this is not the first time for you. (You have by your own admission made alot of char transfers, and seems to know they happen instantly).
Ask yourselves this. Where would Fret have gone with the scam if the transfer had happened immediately ?
Also i may be off the mark on this, but if i open my wallet and look at the transactions in "Journal", i get a damn sight more transactions than Tion seems to have - could be more proof that the image has been doctored ?
I think that BIG and Fret have been worked over by Tion and Axee, the only other variation would be Tion, Axee AND Fret have tried to work one over on BIG by shifting 750,000 ISK between the three of them.
I genuinely cannot see BIG embarking on this Scam, but it does make you wonder a little about the integrity of their members.
Who reading these forums would be happy for Tion to act as a middle man ?...............not me.
|
Pandora Panda
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 10:16:00 -
[331]
Edited by: Pandora Panda on 16/12/2004 10:20:02
Originally by: Mrs Hauler
Who are you -- (nobody)
who is BIG -- (Well known corp with proven track record that deal in many billions)
Frankly love him or hate him Tornsoul wouldn't stoop to this crap - your trying to convince 20k of players that he would do a total u-turn for no apparent reason that protecting a member or stealing some ISK -well this is one player that you won't convince. He said at the beginning of the thread char transfer is not something he wants his corp to do - now we see why scammers like you targetting the T2 corps to try and damage thier rep -- well done you have just improved it 100 fold.
To Tornsoul - fantastic work and the funniest story I've read for a long time.
This coupled with the evidence given = Fret you are a total idiot - that screenshot shoots you down in flames -
You gave it a try and failed - move on nothing more to do here.
PS if there is a conspiracy here then try these
are you and axee in this together ?
was it your intention to attack BIG rather than go for the 750 mill- who's backing you?
Are you that bitter and twisted that when caught you cant actually admit it?
Did you get your account from ebay?
When are you gonna admit that your caught and stop giving BIG's reputation an increase instead of doing the damage you intend?
There are massive and glaring inconsistancies in the events as described by TornSoul. While I doubt that the upper echelons of BIG really have any need to scam people, Tion is at best a peon in their organization. The evidence that TornSoul posted seems to strongly suggust that he may have been playing off the BIG name to run a scam aution (and 750m is a pretty decent chunk of change for ~3-4 hours work that this would take).
TornSoul seems to have glossed over or downplayed problems with the theory that he posted. It seems to me like he was fed a somewhat-disjointed story with a poor quality screenshot, and failed to investigate any deeper simply because it was a (rather new) corpmate.
If it were really BIG attempting to scam people (for a rather laughable sum of 750m), I also suspect that TornSoul's story would have been far more cohesive and been supported by much more then a single highly compressed screenshot. They dont strike me as an organization that would turn to crime in such an incompetent manner.
--------------------------------------------
CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
Pandora Panda
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 10:16:00 -
[332]
Edited by: Pandora Panda on 16/12/2004 10:20:02
Originally by: Mrs Hauler
Who are you -- (nobody)
who is BIG -- (Well known corp with proven track record that deal in many billions)
Frankly love him or hate him Tornsoul wouldn't stoop to this crap - your trying to convince 20k of players that he would do a total u-turn for no apparent reason that protecting a member or stealing some ISK -well this is one player that you won't convince. He said at the beginning of the thread char transfer is not something he wants his corp to do - now we see why scammers like you targetting the T2 corps to try and damage thier rep -- well done you have just improved it 100 fold.
To Tornsoul - fantastic work and the funniest story I've read for a long time.
This coupled with the evidence given = Fret you are a total idiot - that screenshot shoots you down in flames -
You gave it a try and failed - move on nothing more to do here.
PS if there is a conspiracy here then try these
are you and axee in this together ?
was it your intention to attack BIG rather than go for the 750 mill- who's backing you?
Are you that bitter and twisted that when caught you cant actually admit it?
Did you get your account from ebay?
When are you gonna admit that your caught and stop giving BIG's reputation an increase instead of doing the damage you intend?
There are massive and glaring inconsistancies in the events as described by TornSoul. While I doubt that the upper echelons of BIG really have any need to scam people, Tion is at best a peon in their organization. The evidence that TornSoul posted seems to strongly suggust that he may have been playing off the BIG name to run a scam aution (and 750m is a pretty decent chunk of change for ~3-4 hours work that this would take).
TornSoul seems to have glossed over or downplayed problems with the theory that he posted. It seems to me like he was fed a somewhat-disjointed story with a poor quality screenshot, and failed to investigate any deeper simply because it was a (rather new) corpmate.
If it were really BIG attempting to scam people (for a rather laughable sum of 750m), I also suspect that TornSoul's story would have been far more cohesive and been supported by much more then a single highly compressed screenshot. They dont strike me as an organization that would turn to crime in such an incompetent manner.
--------------------------------------------
CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
Quell Shriker
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 10:32:00 -
[333]
Originally by: Quell Shriker
Edited by: Quell Shriker on 16/12/2004 07:15:10
I'm just curious,..
Do you get a message saying it may take 24 hours to transfer a character?
both sides agre to this comment being passed.
Its how You'd cover the char not being delivered for room to breath.
could someone who has done transfers please answer this question?
|
Quell Shriker
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 10:32:00 -
[334]
Originally by: Quell Shriker
Edited by: Quell Shriker on 16/12/2004 07:15:10
I'm just curious,..
Do you get a message saying it may take 24 hours to transfer a character?
both sides agre to this comment being passed.
Its how You'd cover the char not being delivered for room to breath.
could someone who has done transfers please answer this question?
|
Jim Steele
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 10:35:00 -
[335]
I dont know who to trust in this scam but i doubt Tornsoul would be party to it. Big have done alot for the eve community and i doubt they would be intrested in a measly 750mil.
The question we must ask ourselfs is
1) how did fret conferm he had the character when he was online and post, without logging off. The logs clearly show he didnt leave the chat log.
2) why was the isk transfered to axee befor he said he had the character
ok point one can easily be argued that he was transfering to a second account.
Death to the Galante |
Jim Steele
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 10:35:00 -
[336]
I dont know who to trust in this scam but i doubt Tornsoul would be party to it. Big have done alot for the eve community and i doubt they would be intrested in a measly 750mil.
The question we must ask ourselfs is
1) how did fret conferm he had the character when he was online and post, without logging off. The logs clearly show he didnt leave the chat log.
2) why was the isk transfered to axee befor he said he had the character
ok point one can easily be argued that he was transfering to a second account.
Death to the Galante |
Riddari
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 10:41:00 -
[337]
Originally by: Quell Shriker
could someone who has done transfers please answer this question?
Transfers happen instantly.
I've once transferred a character from my main account to a secondary account and it happened instantly.
¼©¼
a history |
Riddari
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 10:41:00 -
[338]
Originally by: Quell Shriker
could someone who has done transfers please answer this question?
Transfers happen instantly.
I've once transferred a character from my main account to a secondary account and it happened instantly.
¼©¼
a history |
Riddari
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 10:42:00 -
[339]
Originally by: Jim Steele
1) how did fret conferm he had the character when he was online and post, without logging off. The logs clearly show he didnt leave the chat log.
Only thing I can think of (since the character sheet is still disabled) is Forums - Settings, where you see a dropdown with your characters.
¼©¼
a history |
Riddari
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 10:42:00 -
[340]
Originally by: Jim Steele
1) how did fret conferm he had the character when he was online and post, without logging off. The logs clearly show he didnt leave the chat log.
Only thing I can think of (since the character sheet is still disabled) is Forums - Settings, where you see a dropdown with your characters.
¼©¼
a history |
Quell Shriker
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 10:50:00 -
[341]
So you didnt get a message about it possibly taking 24 hours?
That shows Tion lied about recieving a message that it may take 24 hours to transfer,... why would he do that???? possibly because he knew no char was getting transfered and needed time?
He is the one who confirmed the existance of the Char.
He supplied the screenshots,...
|
Quell Shriker
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 10:50:00 -
[342]
So you didnt get a message about it possibly taking 24 hours?
That shows Tion lied about recieving a message that it may take 24 hours to transfer,... why would he do that???? possibly because he knew no char was getting transfered and needed time?
He is the one who confirmed the existance of the Char.
He supplied the screenshots,...
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 10:52:00 -
[343]
Edited by: Fret on 16/12/2004 10:53:04
Originally by: Jim Steele
I dont know who to trust in this scam but i doubt Tornsoul would be party to it. Big have done alot for the eve community and i doubt they would be intrested in a measly 750mil.
The question we must ask ourselfs is
1) how did fret conferm he had the character when he was online and post, without logging off. The logs clearly show he didnt leave the chat log.
A:i did indeed log off to check to see if the character was transfered
2) why was the isk transfered to axee befor he said he had the character
A: The isk was transfered to Tion not axee, and the agreement was for me to transfer the isk first, then the character would be transfered.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 10:52:00 -
[344]
Edited by: Fret on 16/12/2004 10:53:04
Originally by: Jim Steele
I dont know who to trust in this scam but i doubt Tornsoul would be party to it. Big have done alot for the eve community and i doubt they would be intrested in a measly 750mil.
The question we must ask ourselfs is
1) how did fret conferm he had the character when he was online and post, without logging off. The logs clearly show he didnt leave the chat log.
A:i did indeed log off to check to see if the character was transfered
2) why was the isk transfered to axee befor he said he had the character
A: The isk was transfered to Tion not axee, and the agreement was for me to transfer the isk first, then the character would be transfered.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Boffin
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 10:56:00 -
[345]
I also checked back through the chatlogs and i cant see any instance where Fret used the word "ya".......... although Axee and Tion used it and this is the grammar that Fret is shown to have used in the Screen shot
"ya i got the character"
Seems strange
|
Boffin
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 10:56:00 -
[346]
I also checked back through the chatlogs and i cant see any instance where Fret used the word "ya".......... although Axee and Tion used it and this is the grammar that Fret is shown to have used in the Screen shot
"ya i got the character"
Seems strange
|
Lord Armagon
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 10:57:00 -
[347]
Iv been "scamed" by BIG to (Zarquon Beelbebrox) in one of the lotterys. I payed the isk for 3 tickets to a lottery right after they annonsed it and when the draw was they told me i had payed for the lottery before this one. Strangly i payed after they had annonsed the winner of the one lottery they clamed i had bought tickets for. The cost was no more then 10mil so i did not make a fuss about it but i told tion that i would never trust BIG again and i never have.
BIG is and will be the BIGest scamers in EVE.
|
Lord Armagon
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 10:57:00 -
[348]
Iv been "scamed" by BIG to (Zarquon Beelbebrox) in one of the lotterys. I payed the isk for 3 tickets to a lottery right after they annonsed it and when the draw was they told me i had payed for the lottery before this one. Strangly i payed after they had annonsed the winner of the one lottery they clamed i had bought tickets for. The cost was no more then 10mil so i did not make a fuss about it but i told tion that i would never trust BIG again and i never have.
BIG is and will be the BIGest scamers in EVE.
|
Jin Entres
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 10:59:00 -
[349]
Edited by: Jin Entres on 16/12/2004 11:09:42
This has been the singlemost interesting read in all forum history. No matter who's getting scammed or who's doing it - isn't this drama alone worth it?
PS. Think how much it would simplify things if accountname was included in every post
|
Jin Entres
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 10:59:00 -
[350]
Edited by: Jin Entres on 16/12/2004 11:09:42
This has been the singlemost interesting read in all forum history. No matter who's getting scammed or who's doing it - isn't this drama alone worth it?
PS. Think how much it would simplify things if accountname was included in every post
|
Pandora Panda
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 10:59:00 -
[351]
Originally by: Riddari
Originally by: Jim Steele
1) how did fret conferm he had the character when he was online and post, without logging off. The logs clearly show he didnt leave the chat log.
Only thing I can think of (since the character sheet is still disabled) is Forums - Settings, where you see a dropdown with your characters.
How would the logs show that he'd left? I know that my corp public channel doesnt show join/parts, and they arent in any of my text logs either.
--------------------------------------------
CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
Pandora Panda
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 10:59:00 -
[352]
Originally by: Riddari
Originally by: Jim Steele
1) how did fret conferm he had the character when he was online and post, without logging off. The logs clearly show he didnt leave the chat log.
Only thing I can think of (since the character sheet is still disabled) is Forums - Settings, where you see a dropdown with your characters.
How would the logs show that he'd left? I know that my corp public channel doesnt show join/parts, and they arent in any of my text logs either.
--------------------------------------------
CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
s4mp3r0r
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 10:59:00 -
[353]
wow, this is still going on...
What if :
Axee = Tion = Fret ?
God, I love a good mystery
Conspiracy theory away !
Bjorn Borg :
Underwear is futile ! |
s4mp3r0r
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 10:59:00 -
[354]
wow, this is still going on...
What if :
Axee = Tion = Fret ?
God, I love a good mystery
Conspiracy theory away !
Bjorn Borg :
Underwear is futile ! |
Pandora Panda
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:01:00 -
[355]
Originally by: s4mp3r0r
What if :
Axee = Tion = Fret ?
God, I love a good mystery
I doubt that. If that were the case, Tion/Axee would have obviously taken the money and run, to force tornsoul to pay Fret 750m. Since they didnt, and this drama started, it can be reasonably concluded that they are not fret.
--------------------------------------------
CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
Pandora Panda
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:01:00 -
[356]
Originally by: s4mp3r0r
What if :
Axee = Tion = Fret ?
God, I love a good mystery
I doubt that. If that were the case, Tion/Axee would have obviously taken the money and run, to force tornsoul to pay Fret 750m. Since they didnt, and this drama started, it can be reasonably concluded that they are not fret.
--------------------------------------------
CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
Evona Moucrou
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:08:00 -
[357]
In my opinion Tion took his responcibility towards his corporation BIG too lightly.
After all, he was representing the BIG corporation in this 'third party verification' action.
He should have gotten a few more witnesses into the chat where the transfer happened, and have them confirm that they saw the "got the character" from the buyer,
instead of transfering the money within minutes to the seller.
Of course it is a little late for advise now, ...
|
Evona Moucrou
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:08:00 -
[358]
In my opinion Tion took his responcibility towards his corporation BIG too lightly.
After all, he was representing the BIG corporation in this 'third party verification' action.
He should have gotten a few more witnesses into the chat where the transfer happened, and have them confirm that they saw the "got the character" from the buyer,
instead of transfering the money within minutes to the seller.
Of course it is a little late for advise now, ...
|
Coret Trobane
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:10:00 -
[359]
I'm surprised no one's mentioned this as an idea yet ... but even though there's little doubt remaining on Fret *not* being a scammer ... there is one easy way to see whether or not Fret's chat log was altered or not.
Fret can take a screenshot of the capture/chatlogs folder when in "details" view mode, with the relevent logs highlighted, and the window large enough so that we can see when the log file was last changed. If it's got the time and date of when that convo actually ended, fret's definately in the clear. If it's not, that file has been tampered with :)
Have to say though, i did initially believe BIG's story following torn's posting spree ... but the more i look at the wideshot of tion's wallet, the more i'm convinced it's a fake.
|
Coret Trobane
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:10:00 -
[360]
I'm surprised no one's mentioned this as an idea yet ... but even though there's little doubt remaining on Fret *not* being a scammer ... there is one easy way to see whether or not Fret's chat log was altered or not.
Fret can take a screenshot of the capture/chatlogs folder when in "details" view mode, with the relevent logs highlighted, and the window large enough so that we can see when the log file was last changed. If it's got the time and date of when that convo actually ended, fret's definately in the clear. If it's not, that file has been tampered with :)
Have to say though, i did initially believe BIG's story following torn's posting spree ... but the more i look at the wideshot of tion's wallet, the more i'm convinced it's a fake.
|
VeniVidi Vici
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:13:00 -
[361]
Originally by: Coret Trobane
Fret can take a screenshot of the capture/chatlogs folder when in "details" view mode, with the relevent logs highlighted, and the window large enough so that we can see when the log file was last changed. If it's got the time and date of when that convo actually ended, fret's definately in the clear. If it's not, that file has been tampered with :)
and i'd hate to give Fret any ideas but what if he changes his comp's system date and time and then edits the file again to reflect the end of the convo?
-------------------
http://cys.net.au |
VeniVidi Vici
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:13:00 -
[362]
Originally by: Coret Trobane
Fret can take a screenshot of the capture/chatlogs folder when in "details" view mode, with the relevent logs highlighted, and the window large enough so that we can see when the log file was last changed. If it's got the time and date of when that convo actually ended, fret's definately in the clear. If it's not, that file has been tampered with :)
and i'd hate to give Fret any ideas but what if he changes his comp's system date and time and then edits the file again to reflect the end of the convo?
-------------------
http://cys.net.au |
Yasshiel
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:13:00 -
[363]
Originally by: Mammy
Edited by: Mammy on 16/12/2004 06:01:47
Originally by: Vaio
Edited by: Vaio on 08/12/2004 20:00:27
i retract my bid.
OMG, didn't see this before. This is the one in the very same guy that wanted to steal from my corp (with Tion?). Did he learn of Tion's scam from Tion and retract the bid??
Lo and behold they have been in several corps together (1 with me) at the same time. Both of these guys reek of something...
edit. clarified
lol.. actually that post was like
"The highest bid is 340mil. so far. C'mon people you can do better"
=p then when i visited the thread again.. he changed it to that "I retract my bid."
hmm...
|
Yasshiel
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:13:00 -
[364]
Originally by: Mammy
Edited by: Mammy on 16/12/2004 06:01:47
Originally by: Vaio
Edited by: Vaio on 08/12/2004 20:00:27
i retract my bid.
OMG, didn't see this before. This is the one in the very same guy that wanted to steal from my corp (with Tion?). Did he learn of Tion's scam from Tion and retract the bid??
Lo and behold they have been in several corps together (1 with me) at the same time. Both of these guys reek of something...
edit. clarified
lol.. actually that post was like
"The highest bid is 340mil. so far. C'mon people you can do better"
=p then when i visited the thread again.. he changed it to that "I retract my bid."
hmm...
|
Weebear
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:15:00 -
[365]
Originally by: Coret Trobane
I'm surprised no one's mentioned this as an idea yet ... but even though there's little doubt remaining on Fret *not* being a scammer ... there is one easy way to see whether or not Fret's chat log was altered or not.
Fret can take a screenshot of the capture/chatlogs folder when in "details" view mode, with the relevent logs highlighted, and the window large enough so that we can see when the log file was last changed. If it's got the time and date of when that convo actually ended, fret's definately in the clear. If it's not, that file has been tampered with :)
Copy and paste the text elsewhere and edit the text would not update the modified date.
-----------------------
Honor and Serve!
|
Weebear
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:15:00 -
[366]
Originally by: Coret Trobane
I'm surprised no one's mentioned this as an idea yet ... but even though there's little doubt remaining on Fret *not* being a scammer ... there is one easy way to see whether or not Fret's chat log was altered or not.
Fret can take a screenshot of the capture/chatlogs folder when in "details" view mode, with the relevent logs highlighted, and the window large enough so that we can see when the log file was last changed. If it's got the time and date of when that convo actually ended, fret's definately in the clear. If it's not, that file has been tampered with :)
Copy and paste the text elsewhere and edit the text would not update the modified date.
-----------------------
Honor and Serve!
|
s4mp3r0r
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:16:00 -
[367]
Originally by: Pandora Panda
Originally by: s4mp3r0r
What if :
Axee = Tion = Fret ?
God, I love a good mystery
I doubt that. If that were the case, Tion/Axee would have obviously taken the money and run, to force tornsoul to pay Fret 750m. Since they didnt, and this drama started, it can be reasonably concluded that they are not fret.
Are you sure ? If Fret = Axee & Tion, that could explain why Axee didn't log on yet. Axee got 750M (from what I can understand), Tion is the scapegoat. Axee, as long as he doesn't log on, will remain the main suspect IMHO. If the suspect never logs on again, BIG would evidently have to pay, especially since there's only 1 screeny. BIG being the big salesparty in EVE would have considerable experience with scammers and should be prepared when dealing with anyone.
Aren't there corpwide rules when buying/selling stuff in BIG's name as a BIG member ? Only 1 screenshot ??? I mean come on...
In any case, the original scam is still for 750M. If you send 750M to one of your own chars, you gain nothing. If you send 750M to one of your chars, act like a customer that didn't get what he paid for, BIG would have to pay the 750M, no ?
This adds up to a healthy profit of 750M. Plus, if you had some dealings with FA/Torn/BIG before and you got screwed somehow, you could be inclined to spend a little more time perfecting a scam to tarnish their name.
Bjorn Borg :
Underwear is futile ! |
s4mp3r0r
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:16:00 -
[368]
Originally by: Pandora Panda
Originally by: s4mp3r0r
What if :
Axee = Tion = Fret ?
God, I love a good mystery
I doubt that. If that were the case, Tion/Axee would have obviously taken the money and run, to force tornsoul to pay Fret 750m. Since they didnt, and this drama started, it can be reasonably concluded that they are not fret.
Are you sure ? If Fret = Axee & Tion, that could explain why Axee didn't log on yet. Axee got 750M (from what I can understand), Tion is the scapegoat. Axee, as long as he doesn't log on, will remain the main suspect IMHO. If the suspect never logs on again, BIG would evidently have to pay, especially since there's only 1 screeny. BIG being the big salesparty in EVE would have considerable experience with scammers and should be prepared when dealing with anyone.
Aren't there corpwide rules when buying/selling stuff in BIG's name as a BIG member ? Only 1 screenshot ??? I mean come on...
In any case, the original scam is still for 750M. If you send 750M to one of your own chars, you gain nothing. If you send 750M to one of your chars, act like a customer that didn't get what he paid for, BIG would have to pay the 750M, no ?
This adds up to a healthy profit of 750M. Plus, if you had some dealings with FA/Torn/BIG before and you got screwed somehow, you could be inclined to spend a little more time perfecting a scam to tarnish their name.
Bjorn Borg :
Underwear is futile ! |
SiN x
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:18:00 -
[369]
Hmm this might be interesting not sure what it could prove but...
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:19 ] Tion > I do not know because I've never done it that is starnge for sure
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:27 ] Fret > but hopefuly i get the char...after all thts what i want the most
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:40 ] Fret > ty for your help sir, i have to go to lunch
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:43 ] Fret > ill be in touch
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:44 ] Tion > yes it's a nice char
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:50 ] Tion > ok enjoy your lunch
look at the screenshot again
if this was the true timestamp on the convo then
Quote:
Fret > Ya i got the charecter, se(nd the ISK)
would not match the time tion sent the isk.
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:27 ] is when the message was typed
2004.12.11 04:15 is when tion sent the isk.
Just pointing it out as I saw it.
|
SiN x
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:18:00 -
[370]
Hmm this might be interesting not sure what it could prove but...
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:19 ] Tion > I do not know because I've never done it that is starnge for sure
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:27 ] Fret > but hopefuly i get the char...after all thts what i want the most
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:40 ] Fret > ty for your help sir, i have to go to lunch
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:43 ] Fret > ill be in touch
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:44 ] Tion > yes it's a nice char
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:50 ] Tion > ok enjoy your lunch
look at the screenshot again
if this was the true timestamp on the convo then
Quote:
Fret > Ya i got the charecter, se(nd the ISK)
would not match the time tion sent the isk.
[ 2004.12.11 04:21:27 ] is when the message was typed
2004.12.11 04:15 is when tion sent the isk.
Just pointing it out as I saw it.
|
Coret Trobane
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:22:00 -
[371]
True, it would be easily fake-able i guess (in reference to my idea in my last post)
Hadn't thought it through thoroughly to be honest ... not been awake long :)
|
Coret Trobane
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:22:00 -
[372]
True, it would be easily fake-able i guess (in reference to my idea in my last post)
Hadn't thought it through thoroughly to be honest ... not been awake long :)
|
DPO Agent
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:22:00 -
[373]
something here is not right.
every second this goes on BIG get more bad PR.
yet the evidence BIG brought forward does more to implicate their member than the 1 they are defending against.
All this just happens to ocur in the 2 weeks of BIG's second BIGest lotto prize ever the imperial geddon.
Somebody is out to get BIG but oddly it's NOT fret.
confused? i am.
|
DPO Agent
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:22:00 -
[374]
something here is not right.
every second this goes on BIG get more bad PR.
yet the evidence BIG brought forward does more to implicate their member than the 1 they are defending against.
All this just happens to ocur in the 2 weeks of BIG's second BIGest lotto prize ever the imperial geddon.
Somebody is out to get BIG but oddly it's NOT fret.
confused? i am.
|
Alli
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:29:00 -
[375]
Originally by: fallen killer
Well Done Tornsoul
Another scammer caught
FRET give it up you tried and failed looser
I see all the BIG/FA bashers are trying to clutch at straws
pathetic the evidence is overwhelming
You obviosly havn't read the whole thing! |
Alli
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:29:00 -
[376]
Originally by: fallen killer
Well Done Tornsoul
Another scammer caught
FRET give it up you tried and failed looser
I see all the BIG/FA bashers are trying to clutch at straws
pathetic the evidence is overwhelming
You obviosly havn't read the whole thing! |
Discorporation
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:29:00 -
[377]
This is one of the best threads ever.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
|
Discorporation
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:29:00 -
[378]
This is one of the best threads ever.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
|
Quell Shriker
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:29:00 -
[379]
Edited by: Quell Shriker on 16/12/2004 11:34:03
Originally by: Coret Trobane
There is one easy way to see whether or not Fret's chat log was altered or not.
If fret was the only person to have logged on that account, lol!
nah this is pretty interesting, I thought I pointed out some rather important things in my last post, but yeah there are wholes everywhere, I guess it could point to anyone if you only looked at the holes.
|
Quell Shriker
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:29:00 -
[380]
Edited by: Quell Shriker on 16/12/2004 11:34:03
Originally by: Coret Trobane
There is one easy way to see whether or not Fret's chat log was altered or not.
If fret was the only person to have logged on that account, lol!
nah this is pretty interesting, I thought I pointed out some rather important things in my last post, but yeah there are wholes everywhere, I guess it could point to anyone if you only looked at the holes.
|
Alli
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:33:00 -
[381]
Originally by: Mrs Hauler
Fret
Your "im too stupid to use a computer - look at me im all innocent and niave" doesn't wash
Who are you -- (nobody)
who is BIG -- (Well known corp with proven track record that deal in many billions)
Frankly love him or hate him Tornsoul wouldn't stoop to this crap - your trying to convince 20k of players that he would do a total u-turn for no apparent reason that protecting a member or stealing some ISK -well this is one player that you won't convince. He said at the beginning of the thread char transfer is not something he wants his corp to do - now we see why scammers like you targetting the T2 corps to try and damage thier rep -- well done you have just improved it 100 fold.
To Tornsoul - fantastic work and the funniest story I've read for a long time.
This coupled with the evidence given = Fret you are a total idiot - that screenshot shoots you down in flames -
You gave it a try and failed - move on nothing more to do here.
PS if there is a conspiracy here then try these
are you and axee in this together ?
was it your intention to attack BIG rather than go for the 750 mill- who's backing you?
Are you that bitter and twisted that when caught you cant actually admit it?
Did you get your account from ebay?
When are you gonna admit that your caught and stop giving BIG's reputation an increase instead of doing the damage you intend?
Try reading the whole thread befor you post.
|
Alli
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:33:00 -
[382]
Originally by: Mrs Hauler
Fret
Your "im too stupid to use a computer - look at me im all innocent and niave" doesn't wash
Who are you -- (nobody)
who is BIG -- (Well known corp with proven track record that deal in many billions)
Frankly love him or hate him Tornsoul wouldn't stoop to this crap - your trying to convince 20k of players that he would do a total u-turn for no apparent reason that protecting a member or stealing some ISK -well this is one player that you won't convince. He said at the beginning of the thread char transfer is not something he wants his corp to do - now we see why scammers like you targetting the T2 corps to try and damage thier rep -- well done you have just improved it 100 fold.
To Tornsoul - fantastic work and the funniest story I've read for a long time.
This coupled with the evidence given = Fret you are a total idiot - that screenshot shoots you down in flames -
You gave it a try and failed - move on nothing more to do here.
PS if there is a conspiracy here then try these
are you and axee in this together ?
was it your intention to attack BIG rather than go for the 750 mill- who's backing you?
Are you that bitter and twisted that when caught you cant actually admit it?
Did you get your account from ebay?
When are you gonna admit that your caught and stop giving BIG's reputation an increase instead of doing the damage you intend?
Try reading the whole thread befor you post.
|
Coret Trobane
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:33:00 -
[383]
Originally by: Quell Shriker
Originally by: Coret Trobane
There is one easy way to see whether or not Fret's chat log was altered or not.
If fret was the only person to have logged on that account, lol!
You can't alter a chat log saved on the HDD already from within eve, and also, any logs generated would be saved on the computer of the one who logged in, not the one who owns the account.
|
Coret Trobane
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:33:00 -
[384]
Originally by: Quell Shriker
Originally by: Coret Trobane
There is one easy way to see whether or not Fret's chat log was altered or not.
If fret was the only person to have logged on that account, lol!
You can't alter a chat log saved on the HDD already from within eve, and also, any logs generated would be saved on the computer of the one who logged in, not the one who owns the account.
|
Evona Moucrou
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:35:00 -
[385]
Originally by: Coret Trobane
...
Fret can take a screenshot of the capture/chatlogs folder when in "details" view mode, with the relevent logs highlighted, and the window large enough so that we can see when the log file was last changed. ...
The involved players cannot supply the required proof, as they have to show whether they are trustworthy or not, we have to assume that they might temper will all evidence.
Re: "last changed"
From the Java API documentation:
"
java.io.File.setLastModified(long)
Sets the last-modified time of the file or directory named by this abstract pathname.
All platforms support file-modification times to the nearest second, but some provide more precision. The argument will be truncated to fit the supported precision. If the operation succeeds and no intervening operations on the file take place, then the next invocation of the lastModified() method will return the (possibly truncated) time argument that was passed to this method.
"
|
Evona Moucrou
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 11:35:00 -
[386]
Originally by: Coret Trobane
...
Fret can take a screenshot of the capture/chatlogs folder when in "details" view mode, with the relevent logs highlighted, and the window large enough so that we can see when the log file was last changed. ...
The involved players cannot supply the required proof, as they have to show whether they are trustworthy or not, we have to assume that they might temper will all evidence.
Re: "last changed"
From the Java API documentation:
"
java.io.File.setLastModified(long)
Sets the last-modified time of the file or directory named by this abstract pathname.
All platforms support file-modification times to the nearest second, but some provide more precision. The argument will be truncated to fit the supported precision. If the operation succeeds and no intervening operations on the file take place, then the next invocation of the lastModified() method will return the (possibly truncated) time argument that was passed to this method.
"
|
Faramir
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 14:00:00 -
[387]
I hope the "truth" is near, i'm running out of popcorn
|
Faramir
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 14:00:00 -
[388]
I hope the "truth" is near, i'm running out of popcorn
|
Farah Soster
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 14:05:00 -
[389]
I think it was the Butler that did it.
|
Farah Soster
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 14:05:00 -
[390]
I think it was the Butler that did it.
|
Goofman
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 14:06:00 -
[391]
Edited by: Goofman on 16/12/2004 14:44:32
Originally by: Faramir
I hope the "truth" is near, i'm running out of popcorn
^^and that from a guy who is obviosly a fan of "Lord of the Rings"
But the question is if nobody else was in that chatchannel while they traded???
If someone else could post a log of it the truth would come up!
Goofman
|
Goofman
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 14:06:00 -
[392]
Edited by: Goofman on 16/12/2004 14:44:32
Originally by: Faramir
I hope the "truth" is near, i'm running out of popcorn
^^and that from a guy who is obviosly a fan of "Lord of the Rings"
But the question is if nobody else was in that chatchannel while they traded???
If someone else could post a log of it the truth would come up!
Goofman
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 14:11:00 -
[393]
I am so exausted with all of this... i have not slept a wink and ive drank near 1/5 of brandy all to myself, i have work in the morning but i will try to stay awake long enought to see if the truth will find its way into this forum, it is all i am after in all of this.
I cannot say enough that i did NOTHING wrong here, all i wanted was the character....i am not trying to make a bad name for BIG...i just want my name vendicated. I am so tired of all of these acuzations and theories...when i myself know that i was scammed. I can only pray that BIG will see this.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 14:11:00 -
[394]
I am so exausted with all of this... i have not slept a wink and ive drank near 1/5 of brandy all to myself, i have work in the morning but i will try to stay awake long enought to see if the truth will find its way into this forum, it is all i am after in all of this.
I cannot say enough that i did NOTHING wrong here, all i wanted was the character....i am not trying to make a bad name for BIG...i just want my name vendicated. I am so tired of all of these acuzations and theories...when i myself know that i was scammed. I can only pray that BIG will see this.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Sakura Yoshida
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 14:34:00 -
[395]
i just wanted to congratulate tornsoul on the fancy speech, it really seemed to win a lot of people over :P, but i must say i'm on fret's side on this one, that screenshot is nowhere near good enough quality to qualify as evidence, and that's all you seem to have.
and fret wasnt saying that big scammed her, she was saying that the people who she wanted to buy the character off scammed her, but now big seems to be trying to protect their member's reputation so much, they're almost making themselves look guilty of something.
also, just because someone is reputable, doesnt mean they're incapable of scamming someone, you can only be betrayed by those you trust :P
seeya all |
Sakura Yoshida
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 14:34:00 -
[396]
i just wanted to congratulate tornsoul on the fancy speech, it really seemed to win a lot of people over :P, but i must say i'm on fret's side on this one, that screenshot is nowhere near good enough quality to qualify as evidence, and that's all you seem to have.
and fret wasnt saying that big scammed her, she was saying that the people who she wanted to buy the character off scammed her, but now big seems to be trying to protect their member's reputation so much, they're almost making themselves look guilty of something.
also, just because someone is reputable, doesnt mean they're incapable of scamming someone, you can only be betrayed by those you trust :P
seeya all |
Buaya Alpha
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 14:56:00 -
[397]
Edited by: Buaya Alpha on 16/12/2004 14:56:48
Not too sure if this is significant but has anyone noticed that the BOTTOM of the word "Axee's" is one pixel lower than the rest of the preceeding words in BOTH the screen shots?
Compare that agains the transaction below; check out how the word "Tion's" line up the rest of the preceeding words.
Just my personal observation.
|
Buaya Alpha
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 14:56:00 -
[398]
Edited by: Buaya Alpha on 16/12/2004 14:56:48
Not too sure if this is significant but has anyone noticed that the BOTTOM of the word "Axee's" is one pixel lower than the rest of the preceeding words in BOTH the screen shots?
Compare that agains the transaction below; check out how the word "Tion's" line up the rest of the preceeding words.
Just my personal observation.
|
Stavros
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 15:02:00 -
[399]
This stuff is lame and should be just as banned as selling chars for rl cash.
There is no IN GAME method to facilitate the sale of chars and as such this still requires and oog method to complete the sale of the char (in a similar way to ebay requiring use of an oog method to facilitate a sale) there is no difference here.
No sympathy for anyone as this is possibly one of the lamest judgement calls i have seen ccp make.
END
--
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Stavros
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 15:02:00 -
[400]
This stuff is lame and should be just as banned as selling chars for rl cash.
There is no IN GAME method to facilitate the sale of chars and as such this still requires and oog method to complete the sale of the char (in a similar way to ebay requiring use of an oog method to facilitate a sale) there is no difference here.
No sympathy for anyone as this is possibly one of the lamest judgement calls i have seen ccp make.
END
--
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Feronia
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 15:08:00 -
[401]
What I don't understand is, since Tornsoul logged on Fret's account twice with permission, why didn't she took a screenshot of the charactersheet, where everybody could see if the new character was transferred or not. We all know how he looks like. Its a much better evidence than a chatlog. Or was the character transferred to another account ?
|
Feronia
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 15:08:00 -
[402]
What I don't understand is, since Tornsoul logged on Fret's account twice with permission, why didn't she took a screenshot of the charactersheet, where everybody could see if the new character was transferred or not. We all know how he looks like. Its a much better evidence than a chatlog. Or was the character transferred to another account ?
|
Anything
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 15:09:00 -
[403]
Originally by: Buaya Alpha
Edited by: Buaya Alpha on 16/12/2004 14:56:48
Not too sure if this is significant but has anyone noticed that the BOTTOM of the word "Axee's" is one pixel lower than the rest of the preceeding words in BOTH the screen shots?
Compare that agains the transaction below; check out how the word "Tion's" line up the rest of the preceeding words.
Just my personal observation.
That *is* pretty significant. "Axee's ac" is all one pixel lower than it should be, which as far as I'm concerned means the screenshot is just a big fake, and the horrible compression just makes it look even more suspicious. According to TornSoul, Tion provided that screenshot... why would he fake it unless he had something to hide?
|
Anything
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 15:09:00 -
[404]
Originally by: Buaya Alpha
Edited by: Buaya Alpha on 16/12/2004 14:56:48
Not too sure if this is significant but has anyone noticed that the BOTTOM of the word "Axee's" is one pixel lower than the rest of the preceeding words in BOTH the screen shots?
Compare that agains the transaction below; check out how the word "Tion's" line up the rest of the preceeding words.
Just my personal observation.
That *is* pretty significant. "Axee's ac" is all one pixel lower than it should be, which as far as I'm concerned means the screenshot is just a big fake, and the horrible compression just makes it look even more suspicious. According to TornSoul, Tion provided that screenshot... why would he fake it unless he had something to hide?
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 15:12:00 -
[405]
Well please at least keep in mind i did nt finalize my bid until it was verified to be BIG moderated, i felt it would be a secure transaction if BIG acted as middle man. I am a very trusting person, yes i get burned sometimes for that...but i dont want to change my ways because of the evil in this world. And as for the buying of characters...That is a subject for debate, i obviously have no problem with it...If i had recieved this character as promiced no one would have even mae mention about that issue in this post.
Now that the character is obviously not comming, i only continue to post here in this thread to fight for my name.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 15:12:00 -
[406]
Well please at least keep in mind i did nt finalize my bid until it was verified to be BIG moderated, i felt it would be a secure transaction if BIG acted as middle man. I am a very trusting person, yes i get burned sometimes for that...but i dont want to change my ways because of the evil in this world. And as for the buying of characters...That is a subject for debate, i obviously have no problem with it...If i had recieved this character as promiced no one would have even mae mention about that issue in this post.
Now that the character is obviously not comming, i only continue to post here in this thread to fight for my name.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 15:14:00 -
[407]
Originally by: Feronia
What I don't understand is, since Tornsoul logged on Fret's account twice with permission, why didn't she took a screenshot of the charactersheet, where everybody could see if the new character was transferred or not. We all know how he looks like. Its a much better evidence than a chatlog. Or was the character transferred to another account ?
No, i never recieved the character. Why tornsoul didnt take screenshots i dont know... I was more than cooperative with tornsoul, i gave her everything she asked for without hesitation.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 15:14:00 -
[408]
Originally by: Feronia
What I don't understand is, since Tornsoul logged on Fret's account twice with permission, why didn't she took a screenshot of the charactersheet, where everybody could see if the new character was transferred or not. We all know how he looks like. Its a much better evidence than a chatlog. Or was the character transferred to another account ?
No, i never recieved the character. Why tornsoul didnt take screenshots i dont know... I was more than cooperative with tornsoul, i gave her everything she asked for without hesitation.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Estios
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 15:23:00 -
[409]
So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
|
Estios
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 15:23:00 -
[410]
So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 15:27:00 -
[411]
Even though i really dont want to... Im going to go to sleep... i have work in 5 hours...however when i wake up i will check in to see if there are any more accuzations i need to rebuff.
Until then please let me leave you with my plea.....
I AM GUILTY OF NO WRONG DOING HERE, ALL I WANTED WAS TO WIN THIS CHARACTER...I HAVE DONE ALL WITHIN MY POWER TO HELP THOSE INVESTIGATING THIS ISSUE WITHIN BIG. THE SCREENSHOT PROVIDED IS A FAKE... I KNOW THIS BECAUSE I WAS THERE IN THE FLESH, I DONT EVEN SPEAK THE WAY THEY FORGED THAT SS.
BIG i beg of you to look a little deeper into this, I assure you if you do the truth cant be far.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
Fret
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 15:27:00 -
[412]
Even though i really dont want to... Im going to go to sleep... i have work in 5 hours...however when i wake up i will check in to see if there are any more accuzations i need to rebuff.
Until then please let me leave you with my plea.....
I AM GUILTY OF NO WRONG DOING HERE, ALL I WANTED WAS TO WIN THIS CHARACTER...I HAVE DONE ALL WITHIN MY POWER TO HELP THOSE INVESTIGATING THIS ISSUE WITHIN BIG. THE SCREENSHOT PROVIDED IS A FAKE... I KNOW THIS BECAUSE I WAS THERE IN THE FLESH, I DONT EVEN SPEAK THE WAY THEY FORGED THAT SS.
BIG i beg of you to look a little deeper into this, I assure you if you do the truth cant be far.
"A milliary operation has no standard form - it goes by way of deception."
Cao Cao, Sun Tzu's Art of War
|
kieron
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 15:28:00 -
[413]
As stated in the General Discussion thread on the same topic, the GMs are investigating the situation and it will be handled according to the results of the investigation. There is no need for further discussion on the topic. Locking this topic.
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online
|
kieron
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 15:28:00 -
[414]
As stated in the General Discussion thread on the same topic, the GMs are investigating the situation and it will be handled according to the results of the investigation. There is no need for further discussion on the topic. Locking this topic.
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online
|
Stavros
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 15:28:00 -
[415]
Hi pls find the following section of the eula:
Quote:
(1) You may not offer to transfer characters except your own, or act as a ôbrokerö or intermediary (for compensation or otherwise) for anyone wishing to transfer or obtain characters
This means that what the nice man from BIG did is a DIRECT violation of the eula and as such he should get teh naughty stick, I'm pretty sure u can tar the other people involved with this brush as well and if you can't there is plenty of other stuff they have violated in the eula I just can't be bothered to quote any more of it.
HE WHO IS NOT ME DOES NOT WIN
Stavros
--
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Stavros
|
Posted - 2004.12.16 15:28:00 -
[416]
Hi pls find the following section of the eula:
Quote:
(1) You may not offer to transfer characters except your own, or act as a ôbrokerö or intermediary (for compensation or otherwise) for anyone wishing to transfer or obtain characters
This means that what the nice man from BIG did is a DIRECT violation of the eula and as such he should get teh naughty stick, I'm pretty sure u can tar the other people involved with this brush as well and if you can't there is plenty of other stuff they have violated in the eula I just can't be bothered to quote any more of it.
HE WHO IS NOT ME DOES NOT WIN
Stavros
--
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
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