Remember, reaction towers are not safe nor are they easy to maintain, so the profits won't be driven to zero by the idiots who think the minerals they mine are free.

TL;DR
I understand that alchemy could push the Tech price to essentially cost, but that would require a lot of people doing a lot of work for almost no return, just like mining could push the mineral price to zero, but who would do all that work for nothing?

#2 theyre assuming 100 million a month profit - again i suppose this is understandable, but when I was in the north, i saw moons that could make 300 million a month go towerless because "its not worth our time in logistics" ?

#1 theyre assuming a 15 fuel block per hour price cost for the tower - this means a medium tower in 0.0 space with sov. This is perfectly understandable, but what theyre saying is that there are so many cobalt moons in 0.0 that they can and will hold down the market. This i seriously doubt, simply because any sov holding alliance large enough to control a significant portion of moons isnt going to screw with it without a significant profit which brings me to my second point

The fact cobalt is currently mined below cost, as are many other low end moon minerals, as a way to recoup fuel costs on a tower used for other purposes?

Edit: I can't explain this from a behavioral standpoint, I simply point to the fact it's being done right now as proof.

true, but to extend this claim to our current conversation and continue using the numbers we put forth earlier, you'd have to also agree that these people are selling the cobalt from 0.0 to get the fuel discount that was mentioned, and that these people wouldnt mind losing another 2000 CPU from their tower for the reactor and the extra silo needed for this chain. Both of these I would doubt

When making an alchemy pos, it is better in every single situation to mine the cobalt instead of buying and importing it. As you may know, the fitting requirements for a silo and a moon miner are exactly the same. This means that any reaction that uses base minerals fits on a pos and uses the same fuel regardless of if one, both, or none of its components are mined on that moon. In other words, you incur absolutely no extra costs to mine a mineral rather than import it (while saving the cost of purchasing it and importing it).

While I am not a member of the illustrious Faction Five, I can attest that he's not even trying to scam, lie or deceive you in any way. The math doesn't lie, and outgaming CCP is way more hilarious than trolling some blokes on Eve-o.

mining cobalt instead of buying it adds zero CPU to a tower and requires one less silo (the one the harvester replaces)

Doesn't this seem broken to people? I don't understand why moon harvesters and silos should have the same fitting requirements. Maybe it's late in the game to make such a drastic change, though.

Wocka Wocka!

Remember that if you like this change you should hit the "like" button on this post. I need to know if this is the kind of work the community is looking for. ;)

:Update 24/7:

After evaluating the market reactions and the estimates from experienced players we now feel comfortable accelerating our planned implementation these reactions. We're going to have them start at 10/1 ratios and re-evaluate from there.

New versions of the reactions are:

- 100 Titanium + 100 Vanadium -> 1 Unrefined Vanadium Hafnite -> 20 Vanadium Hafnite +-á 90 Vanadium
- 100 Cobalt + 100 Platinum -> 1 Unrefined Platinum Technite -> 20 Platinum Technite + 90 Platinum
- 100 Scandium + 100 Chromium -> 1 Unrefined Solerium -> 20 Solerium + 90 Chromium
- 100 Scandium + 100 Cadmium -> 1 Unrefined Caesarium Cadmide -> 20 Caesarium Cadmide + 90 Cadmium

- 100 Evaporite Deposits + 100 Atmospheric Gases -> 1 Unrefined Hexite -> 20 Hexite

- 100 Atmospheric Gases + 100 Tungsten -> 1 Unrefined Rolled Tungsten Alloy -> 20 Rolled Tungsten Alloy + 90 Tungsten-á
- 100 Evaporite Deposits + 100 Titanium -> 1 Unrefined Titanium Chromide -> 20 Titanium Chromide + 90 Titanium
- 100 Hydrocarbons + 100 Scandium -> 1 Unrefined Fernite Alloy-> 20 Fernite Alloy + 90 Scandium
- 100 Silicates + 100 Cobalt -> 1 Unrefined Crystallite Alloy -> 20 Crystallite Alloy + 90 Cobalt

Then why even bring this up? Just let it go live and enjoy the good old out gaming of CCP?

You need a TLA: NDA.

Nerf intelligence.

Oh, and it is true that T1 and T2 production are about to go full dumb for a few months. Dump anything that contains minerals, technetium or isotopes. It will all hilariously crash.

2. Exhumers are tied to the price of tech (over 50% of their value currently)
3. If exhumers are buffed with a huge cargohold and a 30k+ EHP, they can AFK ice all day with 10 accounts, thus ice drops to historic lows (300-600 isk/piece)

While I understand that Cobalt is, and will for the foreseeable future sell at less than cost, you have to assume the people running the moon want some profit from it. Add to that the cost of the fuel blocks and you have a nice wide margin for tech moon owners to make, because for every isk the Cobalt moon miners want, the tech moon miners make 10x that amount.

Remember, reaction towers are not safe nor are they easy to maintain, so the profits won't be driven to zero by the idiots who think the minerals they mine are free.

really? ive been in Jita a long time, and Ive never found anything selling below cost (except for the stupid POS module/PI debacle but thats not due to market factors)

Its my opinion that the people who are running POSs are generally more intelligent than that.

im not having trouble with that, my rebuttal was to the people who said that alchemy would be done with 0 profit. Im saying that nobody would do the alchemy on a tower for 0 profit, especially since that now means the tower cant be used for much else. which is not the case with just mining cobalt and dumping it into a silo.

My contention is that the idiots who sell their products assuming the minerals they mine are not free are not (for the most part) running POSs

Saying "I knew that thing that just happened was going to happen" is only credible if you also say it before it happens.

I wish I had more to say, but you goons F'ed up the economy so much, its really hard to predict what will happen, tbh. Guess we shall just wait to see what CCP makes go live, then move on from that or so.

im not having trouble with that, my rebuttal was to the people who said that alchemy would be done with 0 profit. Im saying that nobody would do the alchemy on a tower for 0 profit, especially since that now means the tower cant be used for much else. which is not the case with just mining cobalt and dumping it into a silo.

My contention is that the idiots who sell their products assuming the minerals they mine are not free are not (for the most part) running POSs

We didn't screw the economy. Whatever we do simply can't be on the same scale as CCP's meddling (except that one time with faction warfare)

I didn't say you ruined the game, Well besideds maybe that one time with faction warfare. I said you ruined the economy (or perhaps just part of it). The pos fuel price is real high and so is tech. Which the goons helped make sure of. Those are key parts in figuring out alchemy. The ratio is also part of it. But its hard to find a good ratio, with pos fuel and tech being played with.

The other goon here, evilweasel, was trying to warn us of the drastic change CCP would make to the game. But with you guys screwing up those price indexes, it almost guarantees, CCP will not be able to do a good job, or that the 10:1 ratio would stay. He also makes other points besides those ones. Those could happen, but are harder to see, we shall see what comes up.

Oh man, OTEC is probably going to QQ pretty hard at this. But I'm pretty sure they've already extracted their trillions out of it already.

on a semi-related note, wouldn't it be spiffy if, in the real world, if we don't like OPEC having a monopoly on virtually all the oil on Earth, we could just "tweak" the laws of chemistry and physics so anyone can make a replacement for oil in their basement?

ah, if only reality had benevolent Devs.

The overwhelming majority of credit for the current state of the economy goes to CCP, because they're the ones that removed the overwhelming majority of the supply of minerals. Hulkageddon didn't help but, had the drone regions remained intact, it would have been a blip as it had been in previous years...a bigger blip, perhaps, due to the bounties keeping people more involved, but a blip nonetheless. Burn Jita was really just a temporary blip in sales with no long term effect. Tech would be a price increase on the T2 front, to be sure, but that price increase is accentuated by the increase in minerals as well.

Really, its flattering that you give us so much credit, but our antics are accentuating effects, not primary drivers.