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Denidil
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
298
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Posted - 2012.07.23 21:37:00 -
[31] - Quote
Tippia wrote:For the time being, until someone creates a preview-data version for EFT or PyFa, the Hulk changes are fairly easy to simulate. Fit it as you normally would. Once done, remove one lowslot that doesn't affect tanking and put a T1 800mm plate in the slot. Likewise, remove one midslot that doesn't affect tanking and put a MSEII in the slot. If you've already fitted an MSEII, replace it with a meta LSE. Also, ditch any cargo expansion, since it won't make any useful difference. Et voil+á, updated stats!
i've partially modified pyfa (it uses a sql lite database) - i've changed the cpu, pg, slot layout and inherent hit points values. i have not played with the bonuses. I like all these gankbear tears, now maybe you'll have to go prove your "l33t pvp" skills against something that shoots back like the rest of us do. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
851
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Posted - 2012.07.23 23:36:00 -
[32] - Quote
One interesting note is the Skiff still has one strip. So you will drain a roid quite fast. In high sec many roids would not last even one cycle. On the other hand, you will not need as many crystals. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Droxlyn
TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate
87
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Posted - 2012.07.23 23:40:00 -
[33] - Quote
"Halada's Mining Guide" wrote: We will do the math again, for the heck of it. I assume you went from a GÇ£maxed CovetorGÇ¥ to a Hulk in the following equation: 360 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05^2 * 1.75 = 1819.75 m3/cycle
Please boost the storage of the Hulk's Ore bay to 11000 because two perfect cycle sets results in 10918.5 m3 of ore. 1819.75 * 6.
7500 is good for 4 individual laser cycles.
Also, where does the mining drone output go?
Thanks! Drox |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
851
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Posted - 2012.07.23 23:44:00 -
[34] - Quote
Also at the bottom are rigs for Mercoxit and ice mining. The barges not longer are specialized for those mining roles; you make them specialized by adding a rig.
A skiff rigged for ice mining is a huge step up in tank from the existing Mack. I predict a drop in ice product prices. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8708
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Posted - 2012.07.23 23:47:00 -
[35] - Quote
Droxlyn wrote:Please boost the storage of the Hulk's Ore bay to 11000 because two perfect cycle sets results in 10918.5 m3 of ore. 1819.75 * 6. Good thing that you have a fleet at hand to take that ore off your hand, and that 4 individual laser cycles is more than enough time, no matter how you cut it, to dump the ore either into a can or into a nearby storage vessel.
The Hulk is a fleet mining ship. They assume that you will be handing the ore over to someone else, so very little local storage is actually needed. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Droxlyn
TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate
87
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Posted - 2012.07.23 23:54:00 -
[36] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Droxlyn wrote:Please boost the storage of the Hulk's Ore bay to 11000 because two perfect cycle sets results in 10918.5 m3 of ore. 1819.75 * 6. Good thing that you have a fleet at hand to take that ore off your hand, and that 4 individual laser cycles is more than enough time, no matter how you cut it, to dump the ore either into a can or into a nearby storage vessel. The Hulk is a fleet mining ship. They assume that you will be handing the ore over to someone else, so very little local storage is actually needed.
My desire is to do it every-other-cycle, not every-cycle. I'd like a little extra time for potty breaks and forum browsing.
Drox |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8710
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Posted - 2012.07.24 00:00:00 -
[37] - Quote
Droxlyn wrote:My desire is to do it every-other-cycle, not every-cycle. I'd like a little extra time for potty breaks and forum browsing. Then you should be using a Mackinaw or a Retriever. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Droxlyn
TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate
87
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Posted - 2012.07.24 00:10:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Then you should be using a Mackinaw or a Retriever. I like your advice, I'll reship to go ****. (Does pee get xxxxed out?) If they're going to be mean on the ore hold, go with 5500 or jump up to 11000, 7500 is just silly.
Even if you GIMP your hulk as much as you can with maxxed skills, your yield is 3905.5/set so, you still need 8000 m3 to get two cycles with no fleet bonuses.
So, I guess that explains the 500m3 hold. Since two cycles unaided with no MLUs will fill the entire ship after you make some room.
Drox |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1384
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Posted - 2012.07.24 00:15:00 -
[39] - Quote
Droxlyn wrote:Tippia wrote:Then you should be using a Mackinaw or a Retriever. I like your advice, I'll reship to go ****. (Does pee get xxxxed out?) If they're going to be mean on the ore hold, go with 5500 or jump up to 11000, 7500 is just silly. Even if you GIMP your hulk as much as you can with maxxed skills, your yield is 3905.5/set so, you still need 8000 m3 to get two cycles with no fleet bonuses. So, I guess that explains the 500m3 hold. Since two cycles unaided with no MLUs will fill the entire ship after you make some room. Drox
perhaps the developers don't intend on encouraging AFK gameplay? a rogue goon |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
210
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Posted - 2012.07.24 00:17:00 -
[40] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Droxlyn wrote:Tippia wrote:Then you should be using a Mackinaw or a Retriever. I like your advice, I'll reship to go ****. (Does pee get xxxxed out?) If they're going to be mean on the ore hold, go with 5500 or jump up to 11000, 7500 is just silly. Even if you GIMP your hulk as much as you can with maxxed skills, your yield is 3905.5/set so, you still need 8000 m3 to get two cycles with no fleet bonuses. So, I guess that explains the 500m3 hold. Since two cycles unaided with no MLUs will fill the entire ship after you make some room. Drox perhaps the developers don't intend on encouraging AFK gameplay? *looks at the mackinaw* no, they'd never do that. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8710
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Posted - 2012.07.24 00:18:00 -
[41] - Quote
Droxlyn wrote:I like your advice, I'll reship to go ****. You can also just dock up. I'm sure your fleet can live without you for a minute or three.
It's quite simple: the Hulk will no longer be the best mining ship. It will only be the best for its specific purpose: high-activity fleet mining, with Orca or Rorqual support and a good set of transports to bring the ore back to station. If you want to pause, you'll have to pause GÇö AFK mining is no longer in the Hulk's repertoire. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Denidil
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
299
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Posted - 2012.07.24 00:33:00 -
[42] - Quote
Tippia wrote:
It's quite simple: the Hulk will no longer be the best mining ship.
exactly. working as intended.
people just can't' deal with the new reality that is coming. that's fine - whiny max-yielders will keep the suiciders happy, and people like me who will just stick my mining char into a mack will be happy.
I like all these gankbear tears, now maybe you'll have to go prove your "l33t pvp" skills against something that shoots back like the rest of us do. |
Droxlyn
TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate
87
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Posted - 2012.07.24 00:39:00 -
[43] - Quote
The Mackinaw, I think, when fitted for yield in a fleet, will fill up in 8 cycles. The Skiff can fill up its hold in 4 cycles.
Yields are estimated at: Hulk: 5458.76 Mackinaw: 4664.55 (3 MLU2s, I don't know if this fits or not.) Skiff: 4333.99
Drox |
Javajunky
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
29
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Posted - 2012.07.24 01:06:00 -
[44] - Quote
Hulk needs to have 2100m3 cargo....
I get all the other changes, but seriously you're not give the Hulk enough storage to be able to carry a full set of Mining Crystals?
I mean I really I don't think that is too too much to ask is it?
Java
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8712
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Posted - 2012.07.24 01:08:00 -
[45] - Quote
Javajunky wrote:I get all the other changes, but seriously you're not give the Hulk enough storage to be able to carry a full set of Mining Crystals? Put them in the Orca. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Denidil
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
299
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Posted - 2012.07.24 01:17:00 -
[46] - Quote
Droxlyn wrote:The Mackinaw, I think, when fitted for yield in a fleet, will fill up in 8 cycles. The Skiff can fill up its hold in 4 cycles.
Yields are estimated at: Hulk: 5458.76 Mackinaw: 4664.55 (3 MLU2s, I don't know if this fits or not.) Skiff: 4333.99
Drox
3 mlu2s does fit with an implant
are there dimishing returns on MLUs? I like all these gankbear tears, now maybe you'll have to go prove your "l33t pvp" skills against something that shoots back like the rest of us do. |
Jaenen
Recettear Acquisitions LTD
1
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Posted - 2012.07.24 01:26:00 -
[47] - Quote
If those numbers go live, I predict Procurers and Skiffs spiking in price hilariously.
I actually think the revised numbers - perhaps especially on the Hulk and Covetor - are for the best. It's requiring a miner to compromise.
Max yield? Something you can AFK with? Something bloody hard to gank? pick one. That said, I know for a fact I'm going to find the small Hulk cargo bay, and thus the inability to carry a lot of spare crystals, hell of annoying, but it makes sense for what they appear to be going for. The logic seems to be that if you're in a Hulk, you're gonna have support from a haulerbitch of some description, who CAN carry some spare crystals. Pain in the ass? Absolutely. Something that can be worked around? Oh yes.
Believe me, I mine a LOT, with and without friends along... I think that once we the miners have had a little time to get used to things, we'll be fine.
And man, we'll be collecting a ton of tears from the suicide gankers who suddenly need something with muscle to pop Procs and Skiffs. Their tears shall be delicious. |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
582
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 01:35:00 -
[48] - Quote
Denidil wrote:whiny max-yielders will keep the suiciders happy
Quote: [Hulk, Tanked Max Yield] Ice Harvester Upgrade II Ice Harvester Upgrade II
EM Ward Amplifier II Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Processor Overclocking Unit II
This fit has 16,893 EHP right now and of course maximizes your yield. With the changes to its base HP, it will have 26,727 EHP, while still achieving max yield.
It's a bit silly, really - miners get to have their cake and eat it. I think a better solution would have been to model the mining barges after all the other ORE ships - heavily biased towards structure, maybe heavily constrain their CPU as well, so that you can either pick a large buffer with a Damage Control and Reinforced Bulkhead, OR you can maximize your yield with mining laser upgrades, but not both. . |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
576
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 04:43:00 -
[49] - Quote
^ That is a nice fit, but its only a fleet fit. Would be a nice fit too with orca support, but sometimes hard to always have an orca there. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Infinite Force
Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance
95
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Posted - 2012.07.24 05:01:00 -
[50] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Javajunky wrote:I get all the other changes, but seriously you're not give the Hulk enough storage to be able to carry a full set of Mining Crystals? Put them in the Orca. It's late, and I'm tired, so --
You normally have good ideas & suggestions, Tippia, but for this one? No.
/on sarcasm Oh, look. My crystal broke. Oh, wait, the Orca(s) is/are away dropping ore. Guess my Fleet will have to suffer while I mine with a gimped yield. Oh, wait, the Orca is out of range [doing 'activity A']. I can't move without going out of roid range. /off sarcasm
I really tire of these immature 16 year old arguments. "Put it in the Orca" is not the answer to every mining question. Maybe my fleet doesn't use Orca's. Maybe they use Rorquals at 80km out. This is a sandbox - and I should be able to carry a full set of replacement crystals in my specialized mining ship just like my uber fighting frigate/cruiser/battleship/dread can carry a good number of replacement crystals.
Of course, no one has mentioned yet if they've reduced the size of those blasted things yet - and if they do, then 500m3 is fine.
+1 to Javajunky's suggestion. HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud
Hammer Mineral Compression -á- The only way to go! |
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Denidil
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
301
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Posted - 2012.07.24 05:04:00 -
[51] - Quote
Infinite Force wrote:
Of course, no one has mentioned yet if they've reduced the size of those blasted things yet - and if they do, then 500m3 is fine.
they should just reduce their size, it is the best solution. I like all these gankbear tears, now maybe you'll have to go prove your "l33t pvp" skills against something that shoots back like the rest of us do. |
Amenis Shem
1ST German Space Force Ewoks
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 06:53:00 -
[52] - Quote
Could someone please run the numbers for Ice Mining with a Hulk and compare that to the current Mackinaw yield? |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
79
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Posted - 2012.07.24 09:57:00 -
[53] - Quote
Denidil wrote:Infinite Force wrote:
Of course, no one has mentioned yet if they've reduced the size of those blasted things yet - and if they do, then 500m3 is fine.
they should just reduce their size, it is the best solution.
Or add a specialist bay which they implemented but don't use nearly enough. The barges should have an ore bay, a crystal bay and a tiny cargo bay (what do they actually need one for?).
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P3po
Treasures Collectors Solar Citizens
13
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Posted - 2012.07.24 11:18:00 -
[54] - Quote
I have dreamed a day where i can cary full set of crystals + 1 or 2 crystals spare if one gets destroyed .... guess i will have to wait few more years.
I think this guy "carry it in orca" never mined with 5-6 hulks at once, and have no idea how annoying it is with the crystals. |
chaosjj
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2012.07.24 12:36:00 -
[55] - Quote
New mining barges/Exhumers are on Singularity. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
213
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 12:46:00 -
[56] - Quote
chaosjj wrote:New mining barges/Exhumers are on Singularity. oh? they weren't yesterday!
*skips off to sisi* Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Ru3en
Lacking In Diplomacy RED.OverLord
0
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Posted - 2012.07.24 12:48:00 -
[57] - Quote
question:
Patchnotes says: "Only one mining or ice harvesting rig can be fitted at a time." Its on line 396 here: Patchnotes
so you cant fit 2 MLU or 2 IHU anymore? Or does this only affect the 2 new Upgrades? |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
213
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Posted - 2012.07.24 12:50:00 -
[58] - Quote
Ru3en wrote:question: Patchnotes says: "Only one mining or ice harvesting rig can be fitted at a time." Its on line 396 here: Patchnotesso you cant fit 2 MLU or 2 IHU anymore? Or does this only affect the 2 new Upgrades?
"rig" therefore that'll be the rigs not the laser upgrades. (rig slots not low slots). at least that's how i interpret that wording.
however that means you can't stack rigs, nor can you mix rigs, it would seem. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Ru3en
Lacking In Diplomacy RED.OverLord
0
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Posted - 2012.07.24 12:52:00 -
[59] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Ru3en wrote:question: Patchnotes says: "Only one mining or ice harvesting rig can be fitted at a time." Its on line 396 here: Patchnotesso you cant fit 2 MLU or 2 IHU anymore? Or does this only affect the 2 new Upgrades? "rig" therefore that'll be the rigs not the laser upgrades. (rig slots not low slots). at least that's how i interpret that wording. however that means you can't stack rigs, nor can you mix rigs, it would seem.
thanks for that.. was confused |
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Catholic School for Boys A Point In Space
26
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Posted - 2012.07.24 12:58:00 -
[60] - Quote
does the "new" hulk still have a bonus for ice mining? i strongly feel it should loose that bonus. otherwise i do not see the point of the mackinaw beeing the dedicated ice mining ship.
+1 for the hulk stop beeing the ultimate choice. |
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