I'll look at my degree in Economics instead, thanks though.

So you feel that your truly "Econ 101" view of Supply/Demand is what drives an Economy huh?

Ok, so we'll set aside the whole discussion of inferior vs luxury goods and their use as an economic indicator and how it could be applies to Trit vs say Morph and just go with the simplistic view of S/D.

So you're indicating that the market price increase in minerals is being driven by a supply side shortage vs an increased demand for inferior minerals? So wouldn't that negate your entire "AFK mining is bad" argument as AFK mining would increase supply thus driving down prices? Therefore, increased AFK mining would actually be beneficial for you. Also, an AFK mining epidemic at such a level as is being QQed about regulary would not be indicative of a supply side shortage, but i digress.

UNLESS, prices are being driven by increases in demand as a result of increased asset losses from some the various PVP/PVE elements that have been added to the game such as incursions or even suicide ganks (losses of both aggressor and defender) - but then, that would make my statement that consumers drive the price not the producers correct, and that couldn't be it could it.

Given the fact that Trit has increase so much over the last 12 months and has remained high and considering that it is the most abundant element in the game, your supply side shortage statement of "supply/demand" is flawed. The only mineral that has recently increased as a result of shortage is Pyerite because Scordite has long been ignored by miners and the only minerals that have really decreased are ice Products given their increased attention from AFK miners because of long cycle times and large asteroid loads.

But then, of course, you knew all that because of your vast EVE mining knowledge and you're oh so trusty Econ 101 book.

You clearly haven't seen the results of our 200 man ibis fleets.

"i've been playing longer than you" is the eve equivalent of "my regdate"

considering that i've seen '04 players who think that dual-tanked ravens are baller, well, longevity doesn't mean anything there

Wow this whole thread gave me lots of chuckles. Gankers shedding tears over things not being so easy for them. Instead of adapting, they are crying. Where have I heard about that before?

Buff to Hulk isn't too much greater, a slight buff to armor and shields mostly, hull is actually weaker. Skiff and Mack's have those buffs but larger sig radius to go with it, making them more vulnerable to bigger guns. If you have to gank them, don't just fit for maximum damage(sounds alot like telling miners not to fit for maximum yield, doesn't it?), but fit for making your weapons more effective - target painters, webbers, scramblers.

Basically all CCP has done is given miners a 'security blanket' with camo paint on it to look like a nicely armored ship. Most miners will continue to mine as they have before, leaving them vulnerable to ganking. It will just take gankers with some smarts to pull it off.

I also had to laugh at the mention of the 'great coordination' to gank during the burn Jita event. A bunch of ships sat there outside the dock and ganged up on a ship. Big whoop on that. I've seen 12 yr olds pull of the same coordination when having water balloon fights too.

Lastly, the real reason gankers are so upset by the changes? You are going to see a lot less Hulks now as other barges and exhumers become viable alternatives. Coveterageddon or Procurerageddon or Retrieverageddon just does NOT have the same ring to it as Hulkageddon. So there you go. The real reason behind the tears explained.

I've seen lots of comments in the forums about it being a cold hard universe. Now it is harder for gankers. They've had it too easy for too long. I even saw many comments made on the Hulkageddon site by gankers saying their real goal was to make CCP change insurance payouts. "Don't blame us, blame CCP. Petition them to change it. It'll be better for everyone" So now we have these changes, lets adapt people.

Wow this whole thread gave me lots of chuckles. Gankers shedding tears over things not being so easy for them. Instead of adapting, they are crying. Where have I heard about that before?

Buff to Hulk isn't too much greater, a slight buff to armor and shields mostly, hull is actually weaker. Skiff and Mack's have those buffs but larger sig radius to go with it, making them more vulnerable to bigger guns. If you have to gank them, don't just fit for maximum damage(sounds alot like telling miners not to fit for maximum yield, doesn't it?), but fit for making your weapons more effective - target painters, webbers, scramblers.

Basically all CCP has done is given miners a 'security blanket' with camo paint on it to look like a nicely armored ship. Most miners will continue to mine as they have before, leaving them vulnerable to ganking. It will just take gankers with some smarts to pull it off.

I also had to laugh at the mention of the 'great coordination' to gank during the burn Jita event. A bunch of ships sat there outside the dock and ganged up on a ship. Big whoop on that. I've seen 12 yr olds pull of the same coordination when having water balloon fights too.

Lastly, the real reason gankers are so upset by the changes? You are going to see a lot less Hulks now as other barges and exhumers become viable alternatives. Coveterageddon or Procurerageddon or Retrieverageddon just does NOT have the same ring to it as Hulkageddon. So there you go. The real reason behind the tears explained.

I've seen lots of comments in the forums about it being a cold hard universe. Now it is harder for gankers. They've had it too easy for too long. I even saw many comments made on the Hulkageddon site by gankers saying their real goal was to make CCP change insurance payouts. "Don't blame us, blame CCP. Petition them to change it. It'll be better for everyone" So now we have these changes, lets adapt people.

We will adapt, that is why we are the stronger species. Lets not forget that suicide ganking has been nerfed in to the ground repeatedly. We're still here.

We will adapt, that is why we are the stronger species. Lets not forget that suicide ganking has been nerfed in to the ground repeatedly. We're still here.

Where have I heard about that before?

If people leave it'll be at about August 25-28 for a game where PvP requires skill and is fun.

I have played all the beta week ends and tbh EvE PvP can't hold a candle to it.

So you are saying everyone should fly sub-optimal ships for every task? I do seem to recall fleets of Rifters for new players, and not many sitting in Condors. Same is true for every tier of ship. There are those worth flying, those that are clearly in the top 3, and there are those not worth flying. What kind of logic says someone should fly sub-optimal?

when hulk pilots didn't want to take it upon themselves to adapt

I just don't get it, why would you spend time and isk to kill mining barges for some "crusade" (lol irl about this) and then suddenly you just can't do it because you need to loose some ships?]

The new barges now tank very well with max yeild setups. This is wrong.

No, they are not able to have both max tank and max yield.

Go to SiSi and try to build a Mack. You will find that they have fairly bad constraints on cap and CPU. So you get your choice - good tank or good yield. You cannot fit a 4-mid-slot active shield buffer/resist tank AND an MLU - won't work. This is the way it should be. I guarantee you that if you demand to fit an multiple MLUs, your tank will be mediocre at best due to CPU constraints.

You choose: tank or yield. The only difference now is that when you choose a tank, its a good tank that is more than desi-spoiler tank of the soon to be past Hulks.

Spoilers: most exhumers killed by hulkageddon had less than 15-20K EHP. A fully tanked hulk was 30-40k, and very hard to kill. You needed 3-4 T2 catalysts or 1-2 talos. Most mackinaws and hulks were nowhere near that as pubbies like their mining yield and cargo space.

In the new system, the hulks are going to be the weakest tanked exhumers, yet they still were buffed. Therefore, the skiff will probably reach 100k+ ehp, which is almost freighter-level. It's ridiculous enough that battle skiffs will be a thing. I will certainly bait people with a fully tanked 150k ehp skiff.

Guild Wars 2? ahahahaha

uh I'm pretty sure bots can perform complicated maneuvers like 'switching roids' and 'resetting lasers' and ccp knows this

You will need like three T2 talos to kill one of the new hulks in a 0.7 system. Skiffs mining ice in a 0.9 system are basically free money forever, unless someone assembles a 20 tornado team to kill them, which is hilarious unprofitable.

Someone suffers from extreme exaggerations. You might of fooled some people with your ridiculous statements about the mild increase in Hulk tank if you hadn't went straight crazy with the comment about Ice in .9...


I personally don't like these changes because low end mineral prices are going to fall as people will be able to mine without being ganked :(

Well, EvE UI is static, cannot be modded and has lots of text that can be easily "understood" by bots. EvE is the most bot friendly UI AAA title out there.

please don't ever put "eve UI" and "AAA" in the same sentence again for any reason

ccp might get confused

Move ice fields to .6 and lower systems, and make it so players must be in a player ran corp to use barges and exhumers. Problem equalized.

You can still disband and reform a corp in about 5 minutes. At a cost of 15m to a War Dec's 50m.

Then rework the wardec system as well. :)