Might as well hand them golden tickets because the new barges are exactly the kind of ships AFK miners and botters will appreciate. My question is...

Why are you promoting AFK mining and botting CCP?

I'm pretty sure CCP promotes booting by having ships with any sort of mining bonus.

hell they could remove mining bonused ships, thus making only botters able to mine for profit.

Really anything CCP does, nerfing mining, boost mining, it all promote botting. Because CCP made it possible to mine at all

REMOVE MINING!

oh look; another person who has never mined in their life or is just plain clueless about how mining works.

37km3 ore bay means nothing when asteroids only contain about 5km3 of ore. -.-

I'm pretty sure CCP promotes booting by having ships with any sort of mining bonus.

hell they could remove mining bonused ships, thus making only botters able to mine for profit.

Really anything CCP does, nerfing mining, boost mining, it all promote botting. Because CCP made it possible to mine at all

REMOVE MINING!

Ice Roids have pop quick, do they?

You're right, the Mack's not gonna be particularly AFK when mining Ore in HS (due to the small roids you mentioned), but it's gonna be able to work for like an hour totally hands off when chewing on Ice.

why would you subscribe to a game just to mine imaginary minerals

why would you subscribe to a game just to mine imaginary minerals

almost every time i warp in to an ice belt i see macks surrounding an orca, an orca has more space than a mack. nothing is even remotely changing in regards to ice mining.

look at it on the brightside , Gankers will need to work in teams and so promoting teamwork , it is a MMO rafterall

look at it on the brightside , Gankers will need to work in teams and so promoting teamwork , it is a MMO rafterall

Because right now, the Mack is like the post-nerf Hulk mining Ice.

Afterwards, the people who use Macks to mine Ice into an Orca (not a high income activity) because they want to be semi-afk, doing one action every ~5-10m, will go pure Macks (maybe an Orca for boosts) and be able to only do one action every ~hour. Maybe even stick the Orca in the belt and do a hauling run an hour.

I wonder how much isk all of these magical "AFK miners" make, I mean they must make more than 30mil per hour mining in high security space right?

I am happy as a high sec noob miner with the coming changes. Hate me all you want for not wanting to jet can mine or swap ships when using GSCs.

If you are so worried about people AFK mining, why don't you just mine the same rocks that they are or use one of the other 50 billion ways to "PvP mine".

Wrong, as of now they can do 1 action every 18 or so minutes, doing it every hour won't change that inactivity a lot.

3x isn't a big difference? And fixing it for 18 minutes requires careful timing and an Orca. The new Mack is Ron Popeil's dream machine.

But that's not really a big deal, tbh. I just wanted to point out that Roids have never been as afkable as Ice, and the Mackinaw boost allows it to operate with less human intervention than it currently needs.

I'm bothered by the random tank buff the Mack is getting. It dilutes the Skiff's role, and it means that you really won't need to keep an eye out for gankers as you do now. Visa versa with the Skiff's giant ore hold.

As for the Orca, who uses an Orca today will use it tomorrow, possibly with Hulks. Who today uses an expanded exhumer is not using an Orca nor will use it past patch.

The only change is giving miners the possibility of "mining in battleships" without training for a battleship.

I expect the yield on large-tank-barges and large-ore-bay-barges to be similar to battleships fitted for it.

The only change is giving miners the possibility of "mining in battleships" without training for a battleship.

I expect the yield on large-tank-barges and large-ore-bay-barges to be similar to battleships fitted for it.

Remember what happened to the last thing that promoted team work in high sec? Nerf bat to Incursions face!

Probably for the same reason people join a 50k man blob to fight imaginary enemies ... and to suicide on people mining imaginary minerals.

yeah 140m/hr in risk-free isk was totally balanced

Are we talking about incursions or technetium? ;)

Might as well hand them golden tickets because the new barges are exactly the kind of ships AFK miners and botters will appreciate. My question is...

Why are you promoting AFK mining and botting CCP?

Are you claiming that somehow barges did not need the attention?.. or are you just whining as always?

I'm bothered by the random tank buff the Mack is getting. It dilutes the Skiff's role, and it means that you really won't need to keep an eye out for gankers as you do now..

generally ships need attention when they are underused

hulks, mackinaws, covetors and retrievers are anything but underused

really?! random huh? The Mack had a real problem fitting a tank up til now. with not enough resourse to fit a proper tank, something did need to be done. are you pretending it didn't? miners will always have to watch for gankers. cry baby.

that's one reason anyway....

ships either need attention when they're so worthless that they're underused, or terribly overpowered and overused

nobody was flying mining barges or exhumers, especially not hulks

yeah because the appropriate response was to give it the EHP of a well-tanked HAC without the need for any hardeners

"miners can't figure out how to fit their ships, let's just do it for them"

no, the appropriate response as to nerf barges to paper thin so the tiniest cheap combat ship only would have to breath on them hard to for a kill.

To somehow claim that Hulks are broke because they are used by many miners is terribly short-sighted.

to claim that hulks need a boost in any sense in spite of the fact that they are so heavily used is terribly short-sighted

I never claimed that. Stop making **** up.

ships either need attention when they're so worthless that they're underused, or terribly overpowered and overused

nobody was flying mining barges or exhumers, especially not hulks

The Procurer was just useless, do to the small difference in skill required to fly the Retriever, the same was true when you compare Covetor with Hulk. You used the retriever when training for hulk, and the covetor when it was not safe to use the hulk. The mack and Skiff has the specialized bonus for ice and mercoxit, which makes them usefull, but only if you decide to mine that kind of material.

Saying that because people used the ships everything was fine, is just wrong. The ships was not useless, you just did not have any choice in what you wanted to fly.

Delicious goontears, awaits upcoming Drake nerf with glee.

You have plenty of choices, it's just that you feel entitled to fly the highest yield ships at all times.

Please explain what you mean with "plenty of choices", mining in cruisers and battleships?

Yeah tell me more about hisec miners mining mercoxit

You have plenty of choices, it's just that you feel entitled to fly the highest yield ships at all times.

yes, actually

So you are saying everyone should fly sub-optimal ships for every task? I do seem to recall fleets of Rifters for new players, and not many sitting in Condors. Same is true for every tier of ship. There are those worth flying, those that are clearly in the top 3, and there are those not worth flying. What kind of logic says someone should fly sub-optimal?

So "plenty of choices" means T2 when you can, if not covetor and rokh when you have not other choice.... up that's plenty of choices.

why would you subscribe to a game just to mine imaginary minerals

believe it or not there was once a time when battleship mining reigned

pubbies, this is why we hit you

It is crap to have an industrialist have to train in battleship skills. That is like telling a fighting pilot he has to train an industrial ship (Like a Hulk) if he wants to tank a fleet battle or Incursion.

Makes zero sense.

'Battleship skills' is Caldari Battleship III seeing as you already had the shield, mining and fitting skills to tank your Hulk

the appropriate response was to leave them alone because they're working as intended

"oh, you got blown up by a catalyst? welcome to EVE, fit a tank"

unless you're a hisec miner, of course, because they're the protected class

no, it needed addressing. catalysts destroying hulks in seconds was like a lone mael taking down a carrier in under a minute.

if lone maels were able to do that to a carrier i'm sure people would want that to be looked at.

It most likely can kill it in minutes if the carrier fits no tank.

i may not be able to easily suicide gank miners now, but I can certainly bump them a long long way off the belts. Enjoy, botters/afkers

if it took minutes to kill a hulk it'd be fine. it takes seconds, that's the issue. i have no issue with a ship of almost equal value destroying another ship of equal value in seconds, however the current time to kill of an exhumer by a destroyer is very far from what it should be.

A combat ship being able to kill a mining ship in matter of seconds is not an issue. That makes sense. It's a mining ship, it has no real defenses. Additionally, I just checked with real life and a tank can kill a digger in a matter of seconds. Realism in my EVE? It's more likely than you think.

Ninja mining fleets!

"The Hulk is the largest craft in the second generation of mining vessels created by the ORE Syndicate. Exhumers, like their mining barge cousins, are equipped with electronic subsystems specifically designed to accommodate Strip Mining modules. They are also far more resilient, better able to handle the dangers of deep space. The Hulk is, bar none, the most efficient mining vessel available."

if it took minutes to kill a hulk it'd be fine. it takes seconds, that's the issue. i have no issue with a ship of almost equal value destroying another ship of equal value in seconds, however the current time to kill of an exhumer by a destroyer is very far from what it should be.

except a destroyer isn't really comparable to a tank in this analogy. because the tank is radically more expensive and bigger than a digger. see the point? if a destroyer cost 300m and such i really wouldn't bother arguing the point.

I sincerely wish there was some way to (legally) invest in a way that I will profit off the massive increase in highsec mining bots we're about to see.

both valid answers; i guess there's just a part of me that finds some thing wrong with a 2 week old char in a ship worth pocket change being able to take down t2 ships in seconds, if all the ganking was being done in battle cruisers or such i doubt i'd find it as unacceptable.

infact, i think it's more the speed at which they do it, rather than what they're doing to who.

Sell barges, crystals, MLU and strip miners. Or bump the orca out of range if they are using cans and scoop the ore.

Thats what happens when you fail to fit a tank and then fit mods which reduce it.

All this does is make gankers cry. While its funny. It doesn't fix what needs to be fixed. Mining is still dull, abused, archaic, dreary, hackneyed, monotonous, oft-repeated, out-of-date, plain, repetitive, stale, stupid, tedious, tiresome, trite, unimaginative, uninspiring, vapid, worn-out.
Yay ships get changed... Yet the actual mechanic is still balls.
Make it more enthralling to look at rocks, then people will look at the screen and look and local, and look at d-scans for hours because their attention is actually on the game interacting with it. not watching TV waiting for a audio clue that the rock popped after a half hour of not doing anything. How fun is POS bashing solo or with a tiny crew? That's what every rock represent, a time drag to make people subscribe longer while they want more money for camo pants.

Is a rig being added to help collect precious ganker tears?

why would you subscribe to a game just to mine imaginary minerals

Might as well hand them golden tickets because the new barges are exactly the kind of ships AFK miners and botters will appreciate. My question is...

Why are you promoting AFK mining and botting CCP?

On the one hand, I'm against these changes since hisec mining with these ridiculous tanks now redefines "risk-free activity," which to me is antithetical to the design of eve (a risk-filled universe).

Now the balm to this is that with the return of the mining bot (they never really left) to full strength the cost of low ends will plummet. Enjoy your 10-15M per hour grinding existence.

On the one hand, I'm against these changes since hisec mining with these ridiculous tanks now redefines "risk-free activity," which to me is antithetical to the design of eve (a risk-filled universe).

Now the balm to this is that with the return of the mining bot (they never really left) to full strength the cost of low ends will plummet. Enjoy your 10-15M per hour grinding existence.

it's not risk free, we can still get suicide ganks. it just won't happen as much as the goons want it to unless you offer bigger rewards to make it worth people's time. we're getting more ehp not an undestroyable ship. we've only been made safer because gankers are going to be lazier.

let's face it goons stopped paying out bounties on exhumers people would stop bothering to gank them as much and prices would go down again even without the new mining barge changes.

You don't have to be undestroyable, you just have to be tough enough to last until the invincible NPC comes and pops your attacker.

Barges are getting over 5x their current level of EHP. To suicide one now would require an uninsurable tier3 BC (or multiples), which is vastly unprofitable economically. If you are in an NPC corp (or corp-hop after a wardec) you're utterly safe from being ganked unless you're fitting pricey modules.

So, yeah. Untouchable fleets of bots will blot out the belts. Guess I'll just have to take solace in the cheap ships I'll be able to buy once lowends crack the floor.

i'm sure you can find a ship that can gank the new hulk before concord arrives, i'll wager a naga/nado/whatever will suffice. those that you can't gank as easily will have lower yield anyway; like a currently tanked hulk.

between now and then nothing will change except that you need to be less lazy about ganking hulks. really no big changes from now.

A pr0 tanked hulk RIGHT NOW can reach 30-40k EHP even without dumb faction mods. After the buff, it's easily double that. The other ships are going to be even better. I am fitting a battle skiff as we speak.

So there's no problem but a well deserved balance.
If you feel someone is botting you can use report button or just decide to gank them witch will FINALLY require some effort and not the pathetic mindless mongoloid activity that is atm.

Ice Roids have pop quick, do they?

You're right, the Mack's not gonna be particularly AFK when mining Ore in HS (due to the small roids you mentioned), but it's gonna be able to work for like an hour totally hands off when chewing on Ice.

CCP fix ice mining... make it less mind numbing.

The Goon tears in this thread are ridiculous. And I'm only on Page 2. Can Richard or somebody else who is crying all over this thread please explain why Goons are so mad about these mining changes?

The Goon tears in this thread are ridiculous. And I'm only on Page 2. Can Richard or somebody else who is crying all over this thread please explain why Goons are so mad about these mining changes?

And this is why I pity human hisec miners. Their entire existence is grinding paltry sums and begging CCP for constant nerfs and buffs, which are never enough.

You fail to see motivations. Destroying mindless bots is fun and profitable now. Post-gank, it will be too much of a hassle.

Reporting them would be :effort: and actually counter to our best interests--indeed, letting them run is quite good for us! Bots reduce the price of minerals and ships. They hurt miners, but not PVPers; so it's actually all up to you to report them. We'll just shake our heads and move on to find some nice fool hauling his life around in a badger.

And this is why I pity human nullsec whiners. Their entire existence is doing what they're told, when they're told to do it. Rolling their face on their F1 key whenever they are told to in massive TiDi lagfests.

Because CCP is undermining all of our attemps at making highsec mining profitable for the carebears and the carebears are cheering.

Stockholm syndrome.

CCP is undermining all of our attemps at making highsec mining profitable

The Goon tears in this thread are ridiculous. And I'm only on Page 2. Can Richard or somebody else who is crying all over this thread please explain why Goons are so mad about these mining changes?

On the one hand, I'm against these changes since hisec mining with these ridiculous tanks now redefines "risk-free activity," which to me is antithetical to the design of eve (a risk-filled universe).

Now the balm to this is that with the return of the mining bot (they never really left) to full strength the cost of low ends will plummet. Enjoy your 10-15M per hour grinding existence.

as opposed to being a peasant chiseling away at rocks

It always required efforts, now it's going to cost two billion isk in t3 battlecruisers to gank a tanked mining ship in a 0.9 system. Low ends are going to plummet and you'll be back to mining for 10 million ISK an hour. I'd rather have 30m/h veldspar and risk being ganked than 10m/h while safe forever.

I'm not sure which part of this is full of more dumb. That you would suggest this as a possibility, or that you actually buy this little turd of propaganda. Goons do what is best for Goons. Unless you're somehow suggesting that Highsec miners are actually Goon alts and your jihad on Exhumers wasn't fueled by your Tech greed, but by your desire to make mining more profitable and afkable for your Highsec mining alts... In which case... MIND BLOWN!

i mean this change literally benefits me because i have isk invested in high-ends which will actually be used in manufacturing when lowends drop back down, but i dislike the idea of risk-free hisec mining

Please provide numbers for your claims, or you are a liar like the rest of the propaganda team.

If this change really benefited you as much as you claim, you wouldn't be depositing vast quantities of your tears all over every thread involving Barge and Exhumer buffs. And nobody actually believes mining is risk-free. Every ship in the game is gankable if you use the right tools and have enough friends to pull it off. The upcoming changes do nothing to alter that, except maybe forcing people to make more friends. Which is just madness in an MMO.

If this change really benefited you as much as you claim, you wouldn't be depositing vast quantities of your tears all over every thread involving Barge and Exhumer buffs. And nobody actually believes mining is risk-free. Every ship in the game is gankable if you use the right tools and have enough friends to pull it off. The upcoming changes do nothing to alter that, except maybe forcing people to make more friends. Which is just madness in an MMO.

HAG dropped the volume of highsec mining by over 50% according to Diagoras. You're welcome.

as opposed to being a peasant chiseling away at rocks

This is false. Diagoras' Tweets didn't attribute the reduction in highsec mining volume to any one specific event. I'm not surprised that you would make that reach and do it for him, but doing so is disingenuous at best and a blatant lie at worst. You're welcome.

it's ironic, however, that you speak of "making friends" when you solo afk mine in hisec in a hulk and demand that CCP makes you 100% safe

Ah yes, But we are FREE to do so. Not commanded.

I do? Please, link me a post I've made about a) my highsec mining adventures, or b) any posts I've made asking CCP to make my highsec mining adventures risk-free. Oh, what's that? You can't? Well then, it appears you may be just talking out of your ass.

I am laughing and posting because carebears don't seem to realize how their wishes for safer mining and larger ore holds can backfire hilariously, as if enacted by a genie with a twisted sense of humor.

Sure, you can mine safely and AFK... for 5 mil isk/h.

while I'm sure you've never shot anything but an NPC, those "50k man blobs" don't fight "imaginary" enemies because there are actually other people behind them

considering that you're probably just some guy who recycles forum alts i'm not going to bother hth

If this change really benefited you as much as you claim, you wouldn't be depositing vast quantities of your tears all over every thread involving Barge and Exhumer buffs. And nobody actually believes mining is risk-free. Every ship in the game is gankable if you use the right tools and have enough friends to pull it off. The upcoming changes do nothing to alter that, except maybe forcing people to make more friends. Which is just madness in an MMO.

Of course not. Too much :effort: right? Good call. Independent thought and action is well beyond your means, Goon. But keep hurfblurfing your tears and recycling your Goon propaganda all over this topic.

This is false. Diagoras' Tweets didn't attribute the reduction in highsec mining volume to any one specific event. I'm not surprised that you would make that reach and do it for him, but doing so is disingenuous at best and a blatant lie at worst. You're welcome.

generally ships need attention when they are underused

hulks, mackinaws, covetors and retrievers are anything but underused

Because there were SO MANY functional alternatives. Almost as many as we have in frigates. Oh wait...

Our opposition to this is twofold: One, ganking is fun. Won't deny it. This nerf all but removes it. Sad, but oh well.

Two, and more importantly: this creates a virtual risk-free activity in eve. Low/Nul barges can still be killed, but hisec gets concord, so EHP past a certain level means guaranteed surivival. Low risk/reward? Try no risk for reward.

The difference being that freighters and orcas haul billions, and the only other hisec ships to warrant the effort are blinged out incursion/mission runners, also worth billions.


As for the proof of the bot population: That's easily answered. Ice Interdiction: in the beginning, there were 30+ macks in an ice belt, mindlessly working away. After a few days of concentrated ganks, the bot population went away--they migrated to other regions where their ISK generation wouldn't be encumbered. The remaining population was the humans too dumb to realize this basic economic reality. It went from exhumers so thick you couldn't swing a cat around without hitting one, to ghost belts.

Our opposition to this is twofold: One, ganking is fun. Won't deny it. This nerf all but removes it. Sad, but oh well.
Two, and more importantly: this creates a virtual risk-free activity in eve. Low/Nul barges can still be killed, but hisec gets concord, so EHP past a certain level means guaranteed surivival. Low risk/reward? Try no risk for reward.

And yes, our efforts DID result in hisec mining being worthwhile for the first time in...a looong time. Smart miners who fit something called "tanks" to their exhumers and were semi-active at the game could easily shrug off attacks and avoid them. And make isk hand over fist. Good luck with that once this nerf hits; trit's gonna fall like a rock within a few weeks.

Actually it's CCP's effort to take away Drone alloys that made mining interesting again. You've just disrupted mining activity for a while, then add all the bots CCP actually banned (not your mindless ganking false argument).

So let's resume this to simple words: Drones alloys gone + bots ban (thx CCP and GJ Shreegs) leads to less minerals in the market, making mining actually worthy.
Your contribution to this is undeniable, but absolutely not in those proportions "gankers" in general pretend just like if they weren't there "oul+ál+á" the game would die: flash news says it wouldn't.

Now how many players got tired and left the game because of this? -can you really answer this question without the "adapt or die" you seem no willing to accept yourself?

Anyway, there's no end ores in high sec therefore not that much profitable as it seems, just make them space love you and go mine uber end ores in null. Now that would be great for the game and the community.

drone alloys were a significant source of high-ends, not low-ends

okay are you going to actually counter my points or just smear nonsense all over this thread :shobon:

continue to believe that hulkageddon was totally irrelevant and had no effect on hisec mining despite the 15k kills, most of which were in may

continue to believe that hisec mining will remain as profitable as it is now even with substantially reduced ganking and lower-tier barges/exhumers having substantially higher yield and tank than they do now

drone alloys were a significant source of high-ends, not low-ends

Barges are getting over 5x their current level of EHP. To suicide one now would require an uninsurable tier3 BC (or multiples), which is vastly unprofitable economically. If you are in an NPC corp (or corp-hop after a wardec) you're utterly safe from being ganked unless you're fitting pricey modules.

So, yeah. Untouchable fleets of bots will blot out the belts. Guess I'll just have to take solace in the cheap ships I'll be able to buy once lowends crack the floor.

Did You Know that people mined in battleships before the introduction of barges and exhumers?

... and it was so stupid that CCP implemented mining ships?

Another myth. They're increasing EHP, not making the ships indestructible. You speak of "guaranteed surivival(sic)" as if there is some magical bubble of immunity surrounding ships in highsec resulting in no risk whatsoever. Undocking is always a risk, no matter what ship you're in.

and then decided that they should never be ganked ever because, as they have shown through their actions (repeated concord buffs, removal of insurance from concord kills, mining barge HP buff) hisec miners are a protected class

why would you subscribe to a game just to mine imaginary minerals

and then decided that they should never be ganked ever because, as they have shown through their actions (repeated concord buffs, removal of insurance from concord kills, mining barge HP buff) hisec miners are a protected class

believe it or not there was once a time when battleship mining reigned

And that they should be.

the difference is, concord is the only defense that high sec miners have. high sec will never have intel on par with alliance intel channels in null, rarely will you have people ready to warp to you in combat ships if you really mess up and get tackled, etc.

there's a difference between "never being ganked" and "requires some effort/drawback to claim the free kill"

the difference is, concord is the only defense that high sec miners have. high sec will never have intel on par with alliance intel channels in null, rarely will you have people ready to warp to you in combat ships if you really mess up and get tackled, etc.

balancing the game around the fact that hiseccers refuse to work together and refuse to fit their ships properly is dumb

balancing the game around the fact that hiseccers refuse to work together and refuse to fit their ships properly is dumb

you reap what you sow. Maybe Goons shot themselves in the foot here. And if they didn't, what are you doing here arguing with miners for then? You stomped around in the sandbox long enough and CCP recognized that GOONS do not make this game nor do they determine what CCP's development plans are. So they started to cater to the other players that have been screaming for these changes for years. And here Goons are complaining about it? It's about time the shoe was on the other foot and you don't like it. This is what happens when you **** in the wind, it sprays back into your face and some of it gets into your mouth. All of you should go find another game to try to wreck, so you can go stroke your e-peens a bit more on your lame forums.

and then decided that they should never be ganked ever because, as they have shown through their actions (repeated concord buffs, removal of insurance from concord kills, mining barge HP buff) hisec miners are a protected class

Thanks for illustrating how little you understand nulsec operations.

This man appears to be mad.
So, so very angry.

theyre fully aware that their bounties are enough to fund ships to gank even a properly fit hulk so please don't give me the "fit your ships properly" line.

Can't wait for the TEC nerf/ Ring mining thingy. The gourmet Goon/Griefer tears will be awesome, Im buying my pails ahead of time before there sold out

if our bounty was actually taken into account when they did this "balancing" i'm going to laffo irl

Not really protected since you can gank them. However if you really think it's a good game balance to be able to kill 300M ships (some times more) with a simple 3M T1 fitted destroyer, then this is an endless discussion with fake arguments.

So you can't just pick a 3M ship and kill mining barges any more in a few days again, just take more ships and kill it.

A hulk, properly tanked NOW, can survive solo ganks. A mack can shrug off all but the highest firepower attacks.

With the buffs, they'll require multiple people to kill. The incentive to do so drops off precipitously when you need to spend 150M+ to kill a target. At no point did I claim it was an absolute impossibility to gank barges in hisec--but as a practical matter, it will become the pastime of the rich who don't care about sustainability.

But in any case, what's done is done (or will be done), so oh well. I just await your next round of plaintive cries and whines to CCP when "mining is too unprofitable" or "bots are all over!"

Edit: I will go so far as to say that the new skiffs will be nigh-ungankable in hisec. And they'll now mine as much as a covetor.

A properly tanked Hulk can now survive solo ganks from 10mil ISK Destroyers? This surprises you from a 300mil ISK Hulk? Should a 300mil ISK Hulk NOT be able to survive a solo gank from a 10mil ISK hull? I'll assume you're intelligent enough to answer with an emphatic no. In which case, at what point should the profit ratio for gankers be? Should they be able to gank a Hulk with 2 Destroyers or 20mil ISK in hulls? How about 10 Destroyers or 100mil ISK in hulls? Or, following your logic, it will require 15 Destroyers at 10mil ISK apiece to match the magical 150mil number you threw out as the point where "the incentive to do so (to gank a Hulk) drops off precipitously". Except it won't take anywhere near 15 Destroyers to gank any of the new Mining hulls, with the possible exception of the Skiff which has terrible yield to compensate for it's tank.

I would just like to hear what CCP intends to do with the increased botting and AFK mining these new barges will no doubt create. Also, don't tell me it won't happen because the new EHP for some of barges is increasing to the amounts of cruiser and one will be as good as any BS. Park them in high-sec ice field and walk away for an hour or have your isboxer and G15 keyboard or third party app set for botting - no fear of gank because sitting in a .7 ice field pretty much garuantees 100% safety.

a 500k isk rifter can paralyze a 3b isk vindicator

and then it will be mission runners

and then it will be incursion runners

and then it will be dudes hauling their life's worth in a badger

and then it will be gullible dudes with 60b waiting to be scammed

I would just like to hear what CCP intends to do with the increased botting and AFK mining these new barges will no doubt create. Also, don't tell me it won't happen because the new EHP for some of barges is increasing to the amounts of cruiser and one will be as good as any BS. Park them in high-sec ice field and walk away for an hour or have your isboxer and G15 keyboard or third party app set for botting - no fear of gank because sitting in a .7 ice field pretty much garuantees 100% safety.

a 500k isk rifter can paralyze a 3b isk vindicator

A properly tanked Hulk can now survive solo ganks from 10mil ISK Destroyers? This surprises you from a 300mil ISK Hulk? Should a 300mil ISK Hulk NOT be able to survive a solo gank from a 10mil ISK hull? I'll assume you're intelligent enough to answer with an emphatic no. In which case, at what point should the profit ratio for gankers be? Should they be able to gank a Hulk with 2 Destroyers or 20mil ISK in hulls? How about 10 Destroyers or 100mil ISK in hulls? Or, following your logic, it will require 15 Destroyers at 10mil ISK apiece to match the magical 150mil number you threw out as the point where "the incentive to do so (to gank a Hulk) drops off precipitously". Except it won't take anywhere near 15 Destroyers to gank any of the new Mining hulls, with the possible exception of the Skiff which has terrible yield to compensate for it's tank.

I always loved the look and feel of that little skiff, I'm excited to see the future of null sec mining....everyone in tanked up procurors and skiffs doing ninja ops to help build the next titan :P

a 500k isk rifter can paralyze a 3b isk vindicator

I park a command centers on planets and make hundreds of millions in PI income. They are easier to get into and require less work to achieve than 5 research agents.
5 research agents = around 200M or so very six months
5 planets = around 200M every couple days

some one needs a bit more perspective here. Oh, and that's without POCO's with basic refined products. Where are all the protestors for this topic?.......I don't see any.

nobody tanks mining ships in nullsec because the prevailing mindset there is "if you get in a situation where a tank matters you're dead anyway"

ah but that's not so true in a skiff with it's +2 warp stab bonus (which i think is still there on sisi... infact i should go and check that)

It's not.

ah but that's not so true in a skiff with it's +2 warp stab bonus (which i think is still there on sisi... infact i should go and check that)

edit: oh no, the bonus has gone :( sad times.

Where, is anyone in this thread discussing PI?

ah but that's not so true in a skiff with it's +2 warp stab bonus (which i think is still there on sisi... infact i should go and check that)

edit: oh no, the bonus has gone :( sad times.

It's a passive offline ISK faucet. You are talking about the (potential) increase in AFK mining and botters. I'm telling YOU, that PI makes great ISK, offline and is virtually risk free. If you are so against AFK isk printing machines why no hate for PI?

Hi, we use brutixes and tier3 BCs as well, which cost 50-70M depending on fitting. While you CAN scale up with destroyers, the level of coordination required to avoid getting concord on grid prematurely scales precipitously (And once it is, you need a LOT of destroyers since you need to alpha the target).

You guys and your myopic focus on destroyers is humorous, but ultimately counterproductive to serious conversation.

Ice Roids have pop quick, do they?

You're right, the Mack's not gonna be particularly AFK when mining Ore in HS (due to the small roids you mentioned), but it's gonna be able to work for like an hour totally hands off when chewing on Ice.

I can still get you with my Prot and his Shadow Serpentis Scram (3pts)

Afaik the new barge changes aren't on SiSi yet and of the ones I saw data-mined had the skiff losing the warp core stab bonus.

I'm more referring to being able to tank the battleship rats that might spawn, a current procurer would have no hope of lasting very long.

That and with barges that have a large enough buffer you might actually be able to save them if you have some security detail and logi nearby to counter any small gang that might jump you.

If you get blobbed.....well you're ****** anyway....and now Richard's quote can definitely apply :P

Afaik the new barge changes aren't on SiSi yet and of the ones I saw data-mined had the skiff losing the warp core stab bonus.

I'm more referring to being able to tank the battleship rats that might spawn, a current procurer would have no hope of lasting very long.

That and with barges that have a large enough buffer you might actually be able to save them if you have some security detail and logi nearby to counter any small gang that might jump you.

If you get blobbed.....well you're ****** anyway....and now Richard's quote can definitely apply :P

the skiff can tank rats somewhat and is used in grav anoms for its mercoxit mining bonus, but nobody solo mines in barges

believe it or not, all serious nullsec mining is in fleets

"it should cost 1bn to kill a hisec miner" - lin-young borovskova, 2012

and then it will be mission runners

and then it will be incursion runners

and then it will be dudes hauling their life's worth in a badger

and then it will be gullible dudes with 60b waiting to be scammed

....as if Gankers never exploited game mechanics (re: Boomerang). (sigh)

Abloobloo abloobloo why can't we farm Schadenfreude easily anymore

"cold, harsh universe" ahahahahahaha not really, welcome to MLP Online

and then decided that they should never be ganked ever because, as they have shown through their actions (repeated concord buffs, removal of insurance from concord kills, mining barge HP buff) hisec miners are a protected class

A hulk, properly tanked NOW, can survive solo ganks. A mack can shrug off all but the highest firepower attacks.

With the buffs, they'll require multiple people to kill. The incentive to do so drops off precipitously when you need to spend 150M+ to kill a target. At no point did I claim it was an absolute impossibility to gank barges in hisec--but as a practical matter, it will become the pastime of the rich who don't care about sustainability.

But in any case, what's done is done (or will be done), so oh well. I just await your next round of plaintive cries and whines to CCP when "mining is too unprofitable" or "bots are all over!"

Edit: I will go so far as to say that the new skiffs will be nigh-ungankable in hisec. And they'll now mine as much as a covetor.

Can't wait for the TEC nerf/ Ring mining thingy. The gourmet Goon/Griefer tears will be awesome, Im buying my pails ahead of time before there sold out

It's not your business to decide what CCP does.

You are entrenched in your 0.0 blueball anyway, no?

ok, I'll throw out this oldie.
Ban use of barges from noob/npc corps. There, problem solved.
No need to figure out how to suicide the new tanked up barges.
War dec them.
If you want to work the belts with barges then form a corp by yourself.
If you can afford a 250+m isk ship you can afford the price to incorporate.

Ah, now let the retaliatory flames begin.