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Suqq Madiq
Amarr Empire
215
   |
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:38:00 -
[391] - Quote
When GOONS undock a fleet of 500 Drakes to blot out the sun are they thinking "Hmm, I hope I make some profit from this."? No, they don't, nor should they.
When RVB undocks a fleet of 100 Rifters, Merlins and Incursus to hunt each other down are they thinking "Welp, I sure hope I can profit from undocking." No, they don't, nor should they.
When PL drops a fleet of Supercaps into Amamake on an unsuspecting Eve University blob, do they think "Damn, can't wait to farm all that Eve Uni ISK."? No, they don't, nor should they.
That's PVP in EVE. PVP isn't always profitable. It can be, under the right circumstances, but if making ISK is among your primary concerns when you engage in PVP you're doing it wrong. |
baltec1
Bat Country
1724
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:39:00 -
[392] - Quote
Suqq Madiq wrote: GANKING ISN'T A PROFESSION. Get it?
Not only is it a profession but is has been one for 9 years now. |
Aya Hekki
State War Academy
Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:40:00 -
[393] - Quote
Suqq Madiq wrote:When GOONS undock a fleet of 500 Drakes to blot out the sun are they thinking "Hmm, I hope I make some profit from this."? No, they don't, nor should they.
When RVB undocks a fleet of 100 Rifters, Merlins and Incursus to hunt each other down are they thinking "Welp, I sure hope I can profit from undocking." No, they don't, nor should they.
When PL drops a fleet of Supercaps into Amamake on an unsuspecting Eve University blob, do they think "Damn, can't wait to farm all that Eve Uni ISK."? No, they don't, nor should they.
That's PVP in EVE. PVP isn't always profitable. It can be, under the right circumstances, but if making ISK is among your primary concerns when you engage in PVP you're doing it wrong.
Spot on!!
exactly what I'm trying to say for awhile now . |
Suqq Madiq
Amarr Empire
215
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:41:00 -
[394] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Ganking's been a profession since the m0o camp in 2003.
Usually it's Freighters. Then someone noticed that Hulk pilots tend to be to lazy to fit a tank.
You fit a tank or take active measures to protect your Hulk and you cannot be profitably ganked (except maybe by ~30 velators in a .5 system).
In case you hadn't noticed, the game has changed a bit since 2003. Ganking isn't a profession. It's a pastime. The game evolved, why can't gankers do the same?
Profitability doesn't matter. Ganking isn't designed to be profitable. CCP Soundwave clued you in days ago. It's a false construct in your own mind. Keep beating that dead horse. You totally don't sound like a broken record. |
Pipa Porto
535
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:43:00 -
[395] - Quote
Suqq Madiq wrote:That's PVP in EVE. PVP isn't always profitable. It can be, under the right circumstances, but if making ISK is among your primary concerns when you engage in PVP you're doing it wrong.
Yes. Suicide ganking isn't always profitable. It can be, under the right circumstances.
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Mallak Azaria
399
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:44:00 -
[396] - Quote
Suqq Madiq wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Ganking's been a profession since the m0o camp in 2003.
Usually it's Freighters. Then someone noticed that Hulk pilots tend to be to lazy to fit a tank.
You fit a tank or take active measures to protect your Hulk and you cannot be profitably ganked (except maybe by ~30 velators in a .5 system). In case you hadn't noticed, the game has changed a bit since 2003. Ganking isn't a profession. It's a pastime. The game evolved, why can't gankers do the same? Profitability doesn't matter. Ganking isn't designed to be profitable. CCP Soundwave clued you in days ago. It's a false construct in your own mind. Keep beating that dead horse. You totally don't sound like a broken record.
It may not be designed to be profitable, but people sure do go out of their way to make it profitable ganking them.
Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
baltec1
Bat Country
1724
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:46:00 -
[397] - Quote
Suqq Madiq wrote:
In case you hadn't noticed, the game has changed a bit since 2003. Ganking isn't a profession. It's a pastime. The game evolved, why can't gankers do the same?
Profitability doesn't matter. Ganking isn't designed to be profitable. CCP Soundwave clued you in days ago. It's a false construct in your own mind. Keep beating that dead horse. You totally don't sound like a broken record.
People make billion on killing fools who fit less tank than they are worth. We fingured out how to make a profit from ganking barges and made billions on the backs of the stupid.
Ganking will contine so long as people fly stupid. Its not like we were hard to counter... |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
124
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:47:00 -
[398] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Suicide ganking isn't always profitable. It can be, under the right circumstances.
Nerfing Hulk's tank just isn't the way. |
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
64
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:47:00 -
[399] - Quote
Ginseng Jita wrote:Might as well hand them golden tickets because the new barges are exactly the kind of ships AFK miners and botters will appreciate. My question is...
Why are you promoting AFK mining and botting CCP?
No. Disambiguate between afk miners and botters.
AFK miners wont get ****.
CCP sreegs kicks botters asses daily. He is without question my favorite dev next to Soundwave. Witty and does an excellent job. To say they are promoting botting is silly. |
Suqq Madiq
Amarr Empire
219
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:50:00 -
[400] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:People make billion on killing fools who fit less tank than they are worth. We fingured out how to make a profit from ganking barges and made billions on the backs of the stupid.
Ganking will contine so long as people fly stupid. Its not like we were hard to counter...
Cool. I hope it does continue. Ganking is a vital part of the EVE dynamic. But assuming it should be profitable and crying when it isn't is decidedly less cool. |
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baltec1
Bat Country
1724
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:59:00 -
[401] - Quote
Suqq Madiq wrote:baltec1 wrote:People make billion on killing fools who fit less tank than they are worth. We fingured out how to make a profit from ganking barges and made billions on the backs of the stupid.
Ganking will contine so long as people fly stupid. Its not like we were hard to counter... Cool. I hope it does continue. Ganking is a vital part of the EVE dynamic. But assuming it should be profitable and crying when it isn't is decidedly less cool.
Problem here is that barges can already be made ungankworthy for profit. All CCP needed to do was buff the procurer and retriver so that could fit tanks that made them ungankworthy. |
Suqq Madiq
Amarr Empire
219
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:07:00 -
[402] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Suqq Madiq wrote:baltec1 wrote:People make billion on killing fools who fit less tank than they are worth. We fingured out how to make a profit from ganking barges and made billions on the backs of the stupid.
Ganking will contine so long as people fly stupid. Its not like we were hard to counter... Cool. I hope it does continue. Ganking is a vital part of the EVE dynamic. But assuming it should be profitable and crying when it isn't is decidedly less cool. Problem here is that barges can already be made ungankworthy for profit. All CCP needed to do was buff the procurer and retriver so that could fit tanks that made them ungankworthy.
That isn't a problem. The whole line of ships was unbalanced and most of them ignored completely. That was a problem. This re-balance aims to fix that. Barges and Exhumers can still be ganked, but now there is less profit in it and gankers may be forced to make friends to complete higher security ganks. Too bad. It shouldn't always be profitable and this is an MMO which should be promoting making friends. |
baltec1
Bat Country
1724
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:13:00 -
[403] - Quote
Suqq Madiq wrote:baltec1 wrote:Suqq Madiq wrote:baltec1 wrote:People make billion on killing fools who fit less tank than they are worth. We fingured out how to make a profit from ganking barges and made billions on the backs of the stupid.
Ganking will contine so long as people fly stupid. Its not like we were hard to counter... Cool. I hope it does continue. Ganking is a vital part of the EVE dynamic. But assuming it should be profitable and crying when it isn't is decidedly less cool. Problem here is that barges can already be made ungankworthy for profit. All CCP needed to do was buff the procurer and retriver so that could fit tanks that made them ungankworthy. That isn't a problem. The whole line of ships was unbalanced and most of them ignored completely. That was a problem. This re-balance aims to fix that. Barges and Exhumers can still be ganked, but now there is less profit in it and gankers may be forced to make friends to complete higher security ganks. Too bad. It shouldn't always be profitable and this is an MMO which should be promoting making friends.
In the untanked hulk case you can kill it with a thorax.
I also have issues with the way CCP have giving the rolls. They all seem to intermix, meaning that the skiff, while the tankiest, will not get used as much while the mack and hulk will remain king of the hill. The mack more so I think for the solo miner as it will tank very well meaning that the skiff is somewhat redundent. |
Pipa Porto
536
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:17:00 -
[404] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Suicide ganking isn't always profitable. It can be, under the right circumstances. Nerfing Hulk's tank just isn't the way.
Never said it was. I said the Hulk's tank is fine as is and doesn't need a ~30% boost.
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Xython
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
1014
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 08:49:00 -
[405] - Quote
Ginseng Jita wrote:Might as well hand them golden tickets because the new barges are exactly the kind of ships AFK miners and botters will appreciate. My question is...
Why are you promoting AFK mining and botting CCP?
Because Botters -- not naming names here, but his name rhymes with "The Piz" -- like to run up to 23 bot accounts at a time. That's $345 a month, assuming they're using a CC, or upwards of $460 a month if they're using PLEX -- since someone down the line bought said PLEX from CCP.
Which means that one botter is worth 23 of us.
It's the same logical fallacy that Microsoft used when they refused to let Turbine fix botting in Asheron's Call. "The Botters are paying us 10-20 times the amount that normal players are paying, as long as they're not disruptive ignore them."
The problem is, by their very presence they are disruptive -- they cause and accelerate Mudflation. The price of Minerals in EVE, the price of SIKs and the like in AC. And AC crashed and burned because of it; the total combined player base of AC wouldn't overload the Jita node, even if you threw out all the market bots.
CCP could fix AFK bot mining TODAY if they wanted to: Add a Captcha to mining. It'd just be temporary until they figured how to make Mining actually fun enough to do, but for the time being, your Miners / Strip Miners cycle, 1 in 5, maybe 1 in 20 chance of a popup asking you to click something. You fail, your Miners are offlined until you dock and fix them.
Simple, quick, easy fix. And CCP will never do it, because the players paying for bot accounts pay outrageous amounts of money.
Frankly, the numbers show that as long as they do some token effort to combat bots, and prune the truly stupid, there won't be enough of us upset enough to quit to offset the money they'd lose if they truly went after the bots. |
Pipa Porto
547
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 08:58:00 -
[406] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Suicide ganking isn't always profitable. It can be, under the right circumstances. Nerfing Hulk's tank just isn't the way.
You're getting the Skiff.
The Hulk's tank nerf was necessary to give the Skiff a role. Without it, the choices would be Hulk for Yield or Mack for AFKness. The Skiff would lay unused because the others do it's job just as well.
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
126
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 10:29:00 -
[407] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Suicide ganking isn't always profitable. It can be, under the right circumstances. Nerfing Hulk's tank just isn't the way. You're getting the Skiff. The Hulk's tank nerf was necessary to give the Skiff a role. Without it, the choices would be Hulk for Yield or Mack for AFKness. The Skiff would lay unused because the others do it's job just as well.
No, you want Hulk to have 5k EHP with max tank so you can gank it with noob sihps.
22k EHP with max tank is fine for mining ops where you're not the only one.
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=9129 |
Mallak Azaria
402
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 10:34:00 -
[408] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:No, you want Hulk to have 5k EHP with max tank so you can gank it with noob sihps.
22k EHP with max tank is fine for mining ops where you're not the only one.
The current Hulk can already beat 22k EHP... If you fit a tank.
Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
126
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 10:36:00 -
[409] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:The current Hulk can already beat 22k EHP... If you fit a tank.
On test server... |
Mallak Azaria
402
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 10:48:00 -
[410] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:The current Hulk can already beat 22k EHP... If you fit a tank.
On test server...
On TQ.
Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
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Pipa Porto
548
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 10:54:00 -
[411] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Suicide ganking isn't always profitable. It can be, under the right circumstances. Nerfing Hulk's tank just isn't the way. You're getting the Skiff. The Hulk's tank nerf was necessary to give the Skiff a role. Without it, the choices would be Hulk for Yield or Mack for AFKness. The Skiff would lay unused because the others do it's job just as well. No, you want Hulk to have 5k EHP with max tank so you can gank it with noob sihps. 22k EHP with max tank is fine for mining ops where you're not the only one. http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=9129Get friends and gank in groups. EVE is MMO, not a Call of Duty copy.
When did I say that? Seriously, point to where I said a Hulk should have 5k EHP.
I've said a few times now that the Hulk is fine now. 22k EHP for a brick Hulk is fine. The Mack and Skiff still need some adjustment.
Before the most recent SISI dump, the proposed Hulk maxed out at ~45k EHP, which totally negated the Skiff.
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
126
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 11:01:00 -
[412] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Before the most recent SISI dump, the proposed Hulk maxed out at ~45k EHP, which totally negated the Skiff.
- Download: http://community.eveonline.com/download/?s=singularity
- Install
- Login
If you can't even do that, EVE is not for you. |
Mallak Azaria
402
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 11:02:00 -
[413] - Quote
You didn't actually read the post you quoted, did you.
Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
Pipa Porto
548
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 11:04:00 -
[414] - Quote
Hey, see that word "Before?" That word is important to the meaning of the sentence.
There have been 2 big SISI dumps. The first one had a Hulk with a tank much increased by the changes. The second, and current one has a Hulk with a tank lower than TQ.
When I said "Before the most recent," I was referring to that first SISI dump.
Anyway, quote and link for me where I said that a Hulk should have 5k EHP.
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
54
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 11:05:00 -
[415] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Suicide ganking isn't always profitable. It can be, under the right circumstances. Nerfing Hulk's tank just isn't the way. You're getting the Skiff. The Hulk's tank nerf was necessary to give the Skiff a role. Without it, the choices would be Hulk for Yield or Mack for AFKness. The Skiff would lay unused because the others do it's job just as well. No, you want Hulk to have 5k EHP with max tank so you can gank it with noob sihps. 22k EHP with max tank is fine for mining ops where you're not the only one. http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=9129Get friends and gank in groups. EVE is MMO, not a Call of Duty copy. When did I say that? Seriously, point to where I said a Hulk should have 5k EHP. I've said a few times now that the Hulk is fine now. 22k EHP for a brick Hulk is fine. The Mack and Skiff still need some adjustment. Before the most recent SISI dump, the proposed Hulk maxed out at ~45k EHP, which totally negated the Skiff.
This guy is so out of the loop. To the rest stop posting in general the devs are not responding to general comments anyway too much obscuration going on in general discussion about mining ships. |
Mallak Azaria
403
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 11:09:00 -
[416] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:This guy is so out of the loop. To the rest stop posting in general the devs are not responding to general comments anyway too much obscuration going on in general discussion about mining ships.
Apparently, being concerned about a general sense of balance means you're out of the loop. Wanting an ungankable afk mining machine is about as balanced as an insta-blapping turret titan is.
Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
126
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 11:10:00 -
[417] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Anyway, quote and link for me where I said that a Hulk should have 5k EHP.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1698378#post1698378
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:This guy is so out of the loop. To the rest stop posting in general the devs are not responding to general comments anyway too much obscuration going on in general discussion about mining ships.
You can continue ganking easy targets if you want. You just need to bring more friends with you. EVE is a MMO game, not Call of Duty copy. |
Pipa Porto
548
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 11:13:00 -
[418] - Quote
Quote and Link for me where I said that a Hulk should have 5k EHP. That post says nothing of the sort. In fact, it doesn't contain a single number.
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
54
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 11:13:00 -
[419] - Quote
Two more clueless dudes. But continue on, gets popcorn to watch... |
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