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Roc Wieler
Masuat'aa Matari
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Posted - 2010.10.04 17:03:00 -
[1]
ItÆs not a rumour. ItÆs true. The iPhone application Capsuleer, written by PyjamaSam and Roc Wieler, is no more.
We thank the community for their tremendous response and encouragement, and this has been a decision weÆve been struggling with for quite some time, but have agreed it is the correct decision to make.
We also feel a responsibility to explain to our users how and why we came to this decision.
Fanfest 2008
CCP was gracious enough to fly Chris and Marcus to Iceland for Fanfest, to discuss business opportunities between CCP and Capsuleer. If you were at Fanfest, you would know that CCP promoted Capsuleer quite a bit during their talks, with CCP Oveur stating ôCapsuleer ****ing rocksö during the keynote, as well as several screenshots of Capsuleer during their mobile presentation.
And true to their word, a business meeting did occur.
CCP expressed their genuine excitement and interest in working with Marcus and Chris in some capacity, and committed to internal research to see what could be done to accommodate a business relationship.
CCP hoped to be in touch with the next steps to move forward within a few weeks.
That few weeks turned into months, with little to no communication. They are a busy company. It happens.
After about a year of this, it became apparent that perhaps a mobile platform wasnÆt really as much of a priority for CCP as initially indicated. Meanwhile, the development costs for Capsuleer continued to grow, as new features were added, and early alpha testing for the anticipated 2.1 release began.
Still, nothing could be said about the hopeful relationship between CCP and Capsuleer.
More months passed, and finally the Capsuleer team sent a strongly worded email to every CCP contact they had, from Hilmar to Nathan to Thor to everyone in between, reiterating the initial meeting, and the steps that led to the email, which expressed a finite termination date, as neither Chris nor Marcus were able to invest the amount of effort it took to maintain and develop the Capsuleer platform for free.
Capsuleer was slated on the internal development schedule to be ported to other platforms, such as Android and Windows Mobile. A subscription based platform for full API functionality was proposed to CCP to monetize Capsuleer, while keeping limited API features free for all users. Many new and robust features not to do with the EVE Online API were also in development.
Through all of this, the Capsuleer Team kept in close contact with their primary advertising partner, EON Magazine. The EON Team offered much support, encouragement, understanding, and eventually expressed an interest in acquiring Capsuleer itself as intellectual property, providing a mechanism to monetize the application.
This was very exciting for Chris and Marcus.
The EON Team had scheduled vacations, but hoped to follow up with the Capsuleer Team after their return. Sadly, the follow up was that they were still looking at the best opportunities to fill their own goals. Completely understandable.
So at this point, there is no way for us to recoup any of the effort put into the Capsuleer property, nor provide a stable commercial foundation to further the development of more advanced features. As much as our work has been for a love of the community, sadly love doesnÆt pay the bills.
At the end of the day, we had hoped CCP would come through, then hopefully EON. But you know what? Things donÆt always go as we hope, and thatÆs ok too. Life goes on.
Is this a flame against CCP or EON? Absolutely not. The folks at CCP and EON have been nothing but appreciative and supportive from the beginning, and we wish them both the best of success in all their pursuits.
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Roc Wieler
Masuat'aa Matari
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Posted - 2010.10.04 17:05:00 -
[2]
So what is ahead for Chris and Marcus? Well, through Capsuleer weÆve developed both a great personal and professional relationship, and are already working on other commercial projects for the iPhone as well as other mobile/web platforms. Unfortunately, Capsuleer isnÆt one of them.
So what does this mean to you?
It means that once we close down the Capsuleer servers, as of October 17th, 2010, you will no longer receive push notifications, nor will you be able to use the Headlines features within Capsuleer.
The support forums will also be shut down on October 17th, 2010.
At that time, we will also be removing the application from the app store altogether, so you will no longer be able to download it.
It is regrettable that this is the end result of so much effort and passion, but nonetheless, here we are.
Perhaps the players will petition CCP to give us the business license we seek.
Perhaps one day CCP will contact us when they are ready to pursue their mobile application.
Perhaps. Nobody knows what the future holds.
But for now, we wish everyone the best, and offer our sincere gratitude and thanks for the adventure that has been Capsuleer.
Fly safe.
Chris and Marcus
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.10.04 17:11:00 -
[3]
Sorry to hear this, but switching between "It's not CCPs fault" and "It's CCPs fault" is just silly. It's not going to make your chances of them helping you now any better than if you just flat out put the blame on them.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
baltec1
Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.10.04 17:12:00 -
[4]
Sad way to turn out
erm..
Can I have your stuff?
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Joe SMASH
You Got A Purty Mouth
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Posted - 2010.10.04 17:13:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Joe SMASH on 04/10/2010 17:14:15 Damn... that sucks. I always loved Capsuleer the most of any EveO iPhone app. iClone is WAY too slow for just looking up acct balances and skill queues. Anyone know of a good replacement for Caps?
Best of luck to you guys. Sucks that you and CCP could not play ball.
EDIT: Any chance of open sourcing it and letting someone else pick up development? -----------------------------------
Originally by: Kali Zero Warp core stabilizers are like condoms. Nice and safe, but they make it a little less fun for everyone involved.
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Roc Wieler
Masuat'aa Matari
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Posted - 2010.10.04 17:13:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula Sorry to hear this, but switching between "It's not CCPs fault" and "It's CCPs fault" is just silly. It's not going to make your chances of them helping you now any better than if you just flat out put the blame on them.
Nowhere are we blaming CCP. The reality is that EVE Online is CCP's intellectual property and the only way to monetize our product is through them. Without their assistance, it cannot, and did not happen.
As we stated, there is no flaming towards them, just simply stating what occurred from our point of view.
As players, we're not leaving EVE Online, so no, you can't have my stuff.
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Mykael Skychild
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.10.04 17:17:00 -
[7]
Sorry to see this happen to you guys. You built a great app and I only wish you could have capitalized on it. Hopefully CCP picks up the project again or perhaps you should begin charging for the app.
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Roc Wieler
Masuat'aa Matari
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Posted - 2010.10.04 17:19:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Mykael Skychild Sorry to see this happen to you guys. You built a great app and I only wish you could have capitalized on it. Hopefully CCP picks up the project again or perhaps you should begin charging for the app.
Can't charge for the app as EVE is CCP's property. Without a business license from them, no way to make money.
Thanks for the well wishes.
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Toman Torax
Rage For Order Nihil-Obstat
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Posted - 2010.10.04 17:21:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Toman Torax on 04/10/2010 17:22:52 Sad news. Sorry to hear It's really kinda of ironic... CCP has a game which is an incredible vision of the future - and yet their view of their own future of the company and how to progress the game seems more and more archaic. I really just sit here scratching my head sometimes in utter disbelief. Well anyway... thanks for an excellent program, and for trying your damnedest to make it work. Hope to see you guys in the future.
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Krispy Dingo
Minmatar Strangers in a Strange Land
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Posted - 2010.10.04 17:22:00 -
[10]
Sorry to see you guys stop dev on Capsuleer, it is a truly wonderful app, but I can fully understand the reasoning behind it.
At least we still have iClone
Originally by: Joe SMASH Edited by: Joe SMASH on 04/10/2010 17:14:15 Anyone know of a good replacement for Caps?
I am guessing that your best bet might be to use EVE Commander through Safari for quick checks only.
AFAIK Capsuleer and iClone are the only two EVE iPhone apps at present. _____________________________ http://twitter.com/krispy_dingo http://krispydingo.com |
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.10.04 17:23:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 04/10/2010 17:27:38
Originally by: Roc Wieler
Originally by: Professor Tarantula Sorry to hear this, but switching between "It's not CCPs fault" and "It's CCPs fault" is just silly. It's not going to make your chances of them helping you now any better than if you just flat out put the blame on them.
Nowhere are we blaming CCP.
The entire thing is you either praising CCP for being helpful, or saying how them not getting in touch with you is why it's closing.
Anyway, don't want to derail the thread by pointing that out. I don't use the service, but have heard many good things. It will surely be missed by many.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
CopyCatz
Caldari Brewery Research Ltd Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2010.10.04 17:27:00 -
[12]
Damn it was the most used app on my iphone.. Will have to switch to iClone then although I don't really like it that much.
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DonHel
Gallente Kentucky Fried Capsuleer
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Posted - 2010.10.04 17:28:00 -
[13]
Sucks to hear you and ccp could not come to agreements in the end, fully understandable why you are closing it. Maybe sometime in the near future they will rethink and give you guys a call, I don't own a smartphone so havnt got to ever try Capsuleer but have heard it was the best. Good luck in your future developments, you guys are very committed I can see. And it will pay off big for you soon.
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Jack Gilligan
Caldari 1st Cavalry Division Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.10.04 17:28:00 -
[14]
This sucks, and I hope CCP intervenes to keep this going. Capsuleer has been on my iphone since I got one and I will hate having it's functionality cease to be.
Have you thought of going advertiser supported to pay for your hosting at the very least?
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Joe SMASH
You Got A Purty Mouth
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Posted - 2010.10.04 17:28:00 -
[15]
Originally by: CopyCatz Damn it was the most used app on my iphone.. Will have to switch to iClone then although I don't really like it that much.
Same... I would love it if there was a "lite" version of iClone. Just let me see wallet balance and skills. I do not need to know everything else about the game. -----------------------------------
Originally by: Kali Zero Warp core stabilizers are like condoms. Nice and safe, but they make it a little less fun for everyone involved.
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Aerilis
Gallente Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.10.04 17:33:00 -
[16]
Is there any way you can open a donation drive or something? I'm sure many of us would gladly donate to see this wonderful project continued.
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CopyCatz
Caldari Brewery Research Ltd Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2010.10.04 17:34:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Joe SMASH
Originally by: CopyCatz Damn it was the most used app on my iphone.. Will have to switch to iClone then although I don't really like it that much.
Same... I would love it if there was a "lite" version of iClone. Just let me see wallet balance and skills. I do not need to know everything else about the game.
Lite would be great yeah, I'm installing iClone via wireless atm, it looks like it's installing the eve client onthere as well, man thats a huge app.
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Roc Wieler
Masuat'aa Matari
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Posted - 2010.10.04 17:35:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Jack Gilligan This sucks, and I hope CCP intervenes to keep this going. Capsuleer has been on my iphone since I got one and I will hate having it's functionality cease to be.
Have you thought of going advertiser supported to pay for your hosting at the very least?
We've offered advertising in Capsuleer since the beginning and had a big Paypal button on our site as well. Didn't seem to help enough.
And again, it's not that we don't enjoy the app, and we agree it was the best iPhone EVE app out there. The problem is simply how much development effort it takes to do things right. Our dev team was spending about 6 hours per day on Capsuleer, in addition to a fulltime job and other part-time contracts, and it was getting to be too much to ask anymore.
I'm not going to be replying to this thread anymore. Makes me sad in the pants.
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DonHel
Gallente Kentucky Fried Capsuleer
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Posted - 2010.10.04 17:36:00 -
[19]
*is wondering if Evegate is reasons behind ccp dropping plans with you. I havnt looked at what all plans are for EveGate, is there something similar to Capsuller going to be put in it?
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Jack Gilligan
Caldari 1st Cavalry Division Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.10.04 17:38:00 -
[20]
Originally by: DonHel *is wondering if Evegate is reasons behind ccp dropping plans with you. I havnt looked at what all plans are for EveGate, is there something similar to Capsuller going to be put in it?
Except that EVE Gate barely works with Safari and is not very mobile phone friendly.
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Barakkus
Syndicate Asset Management
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Posted - 2010.10.04 17:41:00 -
[21]
Originally by: DonHel Edited by: DonHel on 04/10/2010 17:39:22 *is wondering if Evegate is reasons behind ccp dropping plans with you. I havnt looked at what all plans are for EveGate, is there something similar to Capsuleer going to be put in it?
The plans for EVE Gate are pretty much being able to do anything you want outside of the EVE client that doesn't require moving items and/or being in space to accomplish. So, yeah, they probably decided against partnering with Capsuleer in favor of EVE Gate, I'm sure they just didn't bother informing the Capsuleer guys they are no longer interested.
Originally by: captain foivos Who would recruit someone named Barakkus?
Wait a minute...
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NeoTheo
Dashavatara Clownz'R'Us
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Posted - 2010.10.04 17:54:00 -
[22]
Iclone was 400 million times better anyhow, all i read here was "we wanted to make money out of this, it didnt happen /quit"
I used it for like 2 weeks untill i found iclone.
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Murixo
M. Corp Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2010.10.04 17:54:00 -
[23]
Damn that sucks, Capsuleer was easily the most useful app on my phone! With the servers shut down, will I still be able to use it to track my skill queue?
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ROXGenghis
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Posted - 2010.10.04 17:59:00 -
[24]
This is pretty bad news, not just for players, but for CCP. For myself and most of my friends, Capsuleer is the one way we stay in touch with our alternate life in Eve while not sitting in front of a computer. Since most people don't sit in front of computers 16 hours a day, Capsuleer represented CCP's best chance to maintain Eve's presence in our minds 24/7. The EveGate website is not a viable alternative on a mobile platform and never will be unless they convert it into an app, which clearly won't happen for a long, long time, if ever.
TL/DR: The disappearance of Capsuleer greatly diminishes Eve's mindshare in CCP's player base.
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Joe SMASH
You Got A Purty Mouth
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Posted - 2010.10.04 18:01:00 -
[25]
Originally by: NeoTheo Iclone was 400 million times better anyhow, all i read here was "we wanted to make money out of this, it didnt happen /quit"
I used it for like 2 weeks untill i found iclone.
iClone is terrible. Slow, buggy and way too bloated. -----------------------------------
Originally by: Kali Zero Warp core stabilizers are like condoms. Nice and safe, but they make it a little less fun for everyone involved.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.10.04 18:11:00 -
[26]
Have you tried working with the CSM?
That maybe is a better approach then direct contacts with CCP, not sure about this though.
But your work wasn't for nothing, you gained good experience! |
Roc Wieler
Masuat'aa Matari
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Posted - 2010.10.04 18:21:00 -
[27]
Roc = Mynxee's plaything... can't get much more CSM help than that! Ok, really not answering anymore, but that one was too funny to pass up.
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Flistir
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Posted - 2010.10.04 18:25:00 -
[28]
Typical - I only recently found out and started using Capsuleer. Pity though, best of luck to the developers. o/
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Bomberlocks
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.10.04 18:37:00 -
[29]
Evegate? *t%&@!!
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ani mkII
anitech
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Posted - 2010.10.04 18:51:00 -
[30]
Easily my most used app, such a shame to see it being discontinued, was looking forward to the 2.1 but hey.
Thanks for all the work you put in.
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Barakkus
Syndicate Asset Management
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Posted - 2010.10.04 18:52:00 -
[31]
I'm not terribly sure why it's "financially not feasable" to continue developing the app...didn't make money off it to begin with...
Sounds like they're just doing the "I'm taking my toys and going home!" thing b/c they didn't get enough attention from CCP.
Originally by: captain foivos Who would recruit someone named Barakkus?
Wait a minute...
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Dhaul
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.04 18:52:00 -
[32]
Android wins again :D
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Othran
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.10.04 19:02:00 -
[33]
Sorry to hear your tale of woe lads. I suspect next time around you'll know better than to have an unpaid app that the copyright holder can copy (features) without paying for.
I suspect that if you have the talent to do Capsuleer then you have the talent to do it for decent companies who will pay rather than "browse your ideas" and bodge them into a "social networking" app that is pretty crap.
Do it. Really. Don't let the fact you got screwed by a penny-ante company put you off.
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Siiee
Recycled Heroes
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Posted - 2010.10.04 19:06:00 -
[34]
As much as I like Capsuleer, knowing that you were just chomping at the bit to monetize it and since you can't you're taking your toy and going home, I just can't feel too bad about this.
The community will fill in the gaps, it may just take a while because the platform is so small.
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Potamus Jenkins
The Nintendo Generation Snatch Victory
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Posted - 2010.10.04 19:12:00 -
[35]
android user checking in
i heart aura
searchable item database wat?
assest list wat??
suck it iphone
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration
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Posted - 2010.10.04 19:16:00 -
[36]
well... for mac people EvE is still better than breakout... and superbreakout...
PC and android <3
Aura ftw
------------------------------------
"A hungry man will tell you anything if you give him a cookie." |
Ephia
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Posted - 2010.10.04 19:19:00 -
[37]
This is a crying shame. Why oh why did you not charge for the application on the App Store!!?
That would have easily made enough to keep the servers up...
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Yvette Online
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Posted - 2010.10.04 19:28:00 -
[38]
That's really too bad It was a nice lightweight little app that did exactly what I needed it to. I guess with the appearance of other apps like iClone, CCP figures they can just get this sort of service for free from their fanbase, so why pay?
For what it's worth, on behalf of myself and all the others who used and enjoyed this app regularly, thanks so much for all your hard work the past few years. CCP should be giving you guys free subscriptions for life after stringing you along and not bringing you aboard.
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Hesperius
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.10.04 19:38:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Ephia This is a crying shame. Why oh why did you not charge for the application on the App Store!!?
I am pretty sure that is what this rant is all about, CCP never signed the paperwork so they could charge for it without fear of losing in a court battle... even though both parties would lose (yay lawyer$!) if it went to court.
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Cadian Smith
Vengeance Imperium Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.10.04 19:39:00 -
[40]
Noes
@Roc Wieler: I would deffo payed money for this app.
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Mynxee
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Posted - 2010.10.04 19:51:00 -
[41]
Very sad news, especially knowing how much time and effort has gone into development and in trying to work something out with CCP. But...good to hear that you and Chris are leveraging the considerable skills and expertise from Capsuleer on more commercially feasible projects.
Really gonna be hard to delete this app once the servers are down.
<3
Life In Low Sec |
Louis deGuerre
Gallente Amicus Morte Shock an Awe
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Posted - 2010.10.04 20:03:00 -
[42]
Well this news totally sucks balls
Thanks for all your hard work over the years. Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie
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Ticod
Minmatar Dychotomy
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Posted - 2010.10.04 20:12:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Ticod on 04/10/2010 20:13:24 CCP wake up! This app is great and encourages folks to actually log in and keep paying their sub! Do business with these fellows who have improved the community.
HTFU!!!!
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1Of9
Gallente Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.04 20:13:00 -
[44]
this are extremely bad news :(
Capsuleer was my fav. app on iphone, hands down. I would gladly pay for the app
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Chony
Caldari Dunder Mifflin Paper Co.
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Posted - 2010.10.04 20:30:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Chony on 04/10/2010 20:32:18 Damn this sucks Ive been using Capsuleer for about half a year or more now. I actually even use it while im playing eve because its faster to check what levels my chars skills are at using the skill button in the ap than using the horrible eve UI.
Hopefully this is just CCP being greedy and they will release their own iPhone app which I would gladly pay a one time charge of up to $4 if it did what Capsuleer did.
PS: iPhone rules android drools!
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Old RedEyeS
Caldari InterGalactic Corp.
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Posted - 2010.10.04 20:38:00 -
[46]
Capsuleer is easily my most used app.
Here's hoping CCP find the time/money to bring Capsuleer back to life.
I'd be interested to know (as a consumer) what other apps you guys develop for the iPhone though. Capsuleer was/is a very high quality and polished product.
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Harry Pearce
Caldari The Intel Project
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Posted - 2010.10.04 20:39:00 -
[47]
Sad to hear this - best of luck to you and PyjamaSam in your future projects, and hope to see you back on the platform some time! ________ iClone - an iPhone and iPod touch Skill Tracker Follow iClone on Twitter |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.10.04 20:39:00 -
[48]
Here's hoping you guys can monetize this. I totally use this app multiple times per day.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
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Andrew Montagne
Gallente League of Gentlemen
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Posted - 2010.10.04 20:48:00 -
[49]
Best of luck in your future endeavours. I'm working on my own app as a programming learning exercise, but your UI was smooth and the features it had it did very well. It's sad to see your project die, even if it is just temporarily, but again best of luck.
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Pesky LaRue
The Magnificent Bastards
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Posted - 2010.10.04 20:51:00 -
[50]
Gutted - this is an awesome app and iClone is just too big/bloated.
Sorry to see this go, thank you for providing this.
And for those with the "take your ball" comments - as Roc said elsewhere, they are spending up to 6 hours a day developing this. Even if it was half that amount, they would deserve to get paid or cease development, so STFU. .
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ChrisIsherwood
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Posted - 2010.10.04 20:54:00 -
[51]
Thanks for the ap!
Originally by: Roc Wieler
We've offered advertising in Capsuleer since the beginning
But the new iAD advertising network for iOS did not debut until July. I was/am hoping this is able to sustain "free" applications.
----
What was really great was for multiple accounts, you could turn on the device and in a few seconds see the results for all three accounts. From device off to answer in less time that it takes to get the EVE client to launch and get the password screen up. Even checking three password-protected accounts in eveboard is not near as quick.
The good news is this should get me off my ass to cancel at least the alt accounts so that saves $360 per year.
Sigh, if CCP ever comes out with something like this, it will be a subset, ship after 2011, require a 60MB .Net download and Internet Explorer.
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Duke Jennings
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Posted - 2010.10.04 21:10:00 -
[52]
Sorry to hear this........ Come on CCP help them out. A mobile version of Eve Gate makes sense.
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Cailais
Amarr Atomic Heroes The G0dfathers
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Posted - 2010.10.04 21:14:00 -
[53]
Very sad news, but indicative of the state of EVE and CCPs relationship with the wider community to date.
The end, as they say, is nigh.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Orange Lagomorph
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Posted - 2010.10.04 21:14:00 -
[54]
I wish CCP would plagiarize my idea of an AoE ship class that does damage to enemy fleets based on the size of their blob.
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JediRobin
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Posted - 2010.10.04 21:17:00 -
[55]
This is a very sad day for us that use Capsuleer.
Even sadder that CCP cant GET OFF THEIR #$%@#$ and support the best app out there.
No more skill ques to check.
No more blogs to read.
No more ccp news to read.
What this means to me is all these things i will miss out on now.
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ChrisIsherwood
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Posted - 2010.10.04 21:29:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Gogela well... for mac people EvE is still better than breakout... and superbreakout... PC and android <3 Aura ftw
/trollthetroll "no if EVE were better than breakout it would sell more than breakout - More people play MMOs on a Mac than play EVE on all platforms."
On a serious note, you do realize this has very little to do with macs and is not limited to phones. Capsuleer ran on the iOS Apple's mobile operating system. Not counting upgrades, Apple is shipping 230 thousand new devices a day that run iOS. Most of them are not phones and none of them are Macs.
I do not undertand the android comment: If they had originally chosen to write capsuleer to run on the android platform, then would this have turned out any differently??? Nobody doubts Google will get advertisements working well on Android, but for the life of Capsuleer, the Apple market share and advertising network were larger.
This is about some combination of CCP not having the experience/employee bandwidth to talk to outside suppliers and the normal (in no way unique to CCP) NIH - where a firm prefers what engineering thinks they could have in two years (but won't) to what the outside supplier has now. Picture some poor CCP employee who is their contact point. While under the time pressure of weekly scrums and semiannual ships, they could do a new type of deal for CCP with all the meetings with executives and lawyers that entails while battling the competing political interests of EVE Gate team are saying "we can do that soon(tm)" and the EON people are wondering how that fits into their eSubscription strategy. a/k/a In corporate life "Never assume malice when mere incompetence will explain the facts"
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helmeo
Caldari Redwaffe
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Posted - 2010.10.04 21:35:00 -
[57]
always sad to see a good app go away due to financial situations.
but, i use android and am very glad the android platform still has a good app for checking skills and such.
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NeoTheo
Dashavatara Clownz'R'Us
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Posted - 2010.10.04 21:47:00 -
[58]
Edited by: NeoTheo on 04/10/2010 21:48:54
Originally by: Joe SMASH
Originally by: NeoTheo Iclone was 400 million times better anyhow, all i read here was "we wanted to make money out of this, it didnt happen /quit"
I used it for like 2 weeks untill i found iclone.
iClone is terrible. Slow, buggy and way too bloated.
it is actaully packed with features, were as capsulear has hardly any and isnt (and hasnt been for a age) finished.
Originally by: Siiee As much as I like Capsuleer, knowing that you were just chomping at the bit to monetize it and since you can't you're taking your toy and going home, I just can't feel too bad about this.
The community will fill in the gaps, it may just take a while because the platform is so small.
and this.
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Barakkus
Syndicate Asset Management
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Posted - 2010.10.04 21:52:00 -
[59]
Not sure why anyone would think CCP would license their intellectual property out to other people to make money off of.
Look at what happened to WoW 2 years ago...Blizzard had enough of people making money off UI mods and told everyone, "You either stop charging for your UI mods or we disable your stuff in our client." There was much tantrum throwing to be had by those who charged for their UI mods, but in the end they all went free or to a donation basis.
There really is no reason to cancel development on Capsuleer other than greed for the most part. I'm sure if they stuck with the "donation coder" model, they would still get decent amounts of donations, but just packing it in because CCP wouldn't OK sales of their app is juvenile at best. I would gather this thread is a last ditch effort to try and get some money out of CCP (either directly or getting them to authorize sales of the app).
If ditching the app isn't based in greed, then release the source up on googlesource or sourceforge and let someone, or a group of people take up the development.
Originally by: captain foivos Who would recruit someone named Barakkus?
Wait a minute...
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KineticPoet
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Posted - 2010.10.04 22:00:00 -
[60]
6 hours a day? On what exactly? I don't think this program has received any additional features since I downloaded it the first time. If the long awaited new version is really sucking up that much time, just drop it. The current version does pretty much everything it needs to do anyway. Seems like you could just declare development over for the time being, shut down the support forums, and leave it at that. The API and (I assume) RSS stuff will continue to function, no? Why pull it from the store? I can think of one reason offhand but I'm not sure I like the implication.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.10.04 22:02:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Barakkus I'm not terribly sure why it's "financially not feasable" to continue developing the app...didn't make money off it to begin with...
Sounds like they're just doing the "I'm taking my toys and going home!" thing b/c they didn't get enough attention from CCP.
I didn't want to say that myself, but it's likely the case. After the free trip to Iceland they got dollar signs in their eyes which never came to fruition, and of course CCP is to blame for getting their hopes up.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Barakkus
Syndicate Asset Management
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Posted - 2010.10.04 22:03:00 -
[62]
Originally by: KineticPoet 6 hours a day? On what exactly? I don't think this program has received any additional features since I downloaded it the first time. If the long awaited new version is really sucking up that much time, just drop it. The current version does pretty much everything it needs to do anyway. Seems like you could just declare development over for the time being, shut down the support forums, and leave it at that. The API and (I assume) RSS stuff will continue to function, no? Why pull it from the store? I can think of one reason offhand but I'm not sure I like the implication.
Unfortunately they've made some changes to the API, and have more planned (the details of which I haven't looked at yet, something to do with categories of stuff I think). Eventually the app will probably be broken beyond use as CCP releases more changes to the API.
They should just release the source so people can keep it updated and working.
Originally by: captain foivos Who would recruit someone named Barakkus?
Wait a minute...
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illford baker
STK Scientific IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.04 22:04:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Potamus Jenkins Edited by: Potamus Jenkins on 04/10/2010 19:19:45 android user checking in
i heart aura
searchable item database wat?
asset list wat??
suck it iphone
might want to check your facts, iclone has all that and a bag of chips! jump planner, map, order status. iclone is alot, capusleer is great if you don't need that much detail. better UI, faster, and it has the headlines which i can't find on iclone. though i still think the iphone sucks if not jailbroken. jailbroken iphone>=android>?windows phone 7 (could be good)?>iphone.
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snipereagle1
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Posted - 2010.10.04 22:07:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Aerilis Is there any way you can open a donation drive or something? I'm sure many of us would gladly donate to see this wonderful project continued.
QFT, this makes me super super sad, and I would gladly throw some cash you guys' way to keep it running.
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Potamus Jenkins
The Nintendo Generation Snatch Victory
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Posted - 2010.10.04 22:11:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Potamus Jenkins on 04/10/2010 22:12:44
Originally by: illford baker
Originally by: Potamus Jenkins Edited by: Potamus Jenkins on 04/10/2010 19:19:45 android user checking in
i heart aura
searchable item database wat?
asset list wat??
suck it iphone
might want to check your facts, iclone has all that and a bag of chips! jump planner, map, order status. iclone is alot, capusleer is great if you don't need that much detail. better UI, faster, and it has the headlines which i can't find on iclone. though i still think the iphone sucks if not jailbroken. jailbroken iphone>=android>?windows phone 7 (could be good)?>iphone.
not sure what facts i had wrong, capsuleer has none of those which is what this thread is about.
if there is another iphone app that does that good stuff then... yey!
and while we are at it
where does rooted android go in your hierarchy?
*edit* for half ass punctuation
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Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six
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Posted - 2010.10.04 22:11:00 -
[66]
This is a damn shame. Poor showing by CCP for keeping them hanging for so long. ______________________________
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Barakkus
Syndicate Asset Management
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Posted - 2010.10.04 22:14:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste This is a damn shame. Poor showing by CCP for keeping them hanging for so long.
This I'll agree with, while they are only 2 subscribers in a sea of thousands, it's best to at least let them down with a verbal or written communication rather than ignoring them....
...they probably ended up talking to a bunch of peons that no longer work there and a bunch of execs that can't remember what they had for lunch let alone talking to 2 random people they paid to fly out to their HQ almost 3 years ago
Originally by: captain foivos Who would recruit someone named Barakkus?
Wait a minute...
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illford baker
STK Scientific IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.04 22:17:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Potamus Jenkins
not sure what facts i had wrong, capsuleer has none of those which is what this thread is about.
if there is another iphone app that does that good stuff...then yey!
and while we are at it
where does rooted android go in your hierarchy?
you did say suck it iphone, which applies to all iphone apps. i guess rooted android would go above JB iphone and android, but i am on at&t and iphone 3gs and dont plan on switching for awhile, though if this phone comes out, i will wait in line for it.
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Potamus Jenkins
The Nintendo Generation Snatch Victory
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Posted - 2010.10.04 22:20:00 -
[69]
haha youll just have to excuse my general biased towards iphone for that remark lol
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Barakkus
Syndicate Asset Management
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Posted - 2010.10.04 22:22:00 -
[70]
Originally by: illford baker though if this phone comes out, i will wait in line for it.
That's ****in sweet, I remember when they came out with a pen set that was actually a computer, you fold out one part and projects the keyboard and a different part projected the screen...I've been waiting for it to get to a consumer level product for like 6 years now...that phone has it and I HAVE TO HAVE THAT PHONE lol.
Originally by: captain foivos Who would recruit someone named Barakkus?
Wait a minute...
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IloveRickAstley
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Posted - 2010.10.04 22:23:00 -
[71]
People make aps to make money. I dont think these guys are being greedy. I think CCP is either just holding out to make an ap of their own so they dont have to split the profits or they are progressing father back into the stone age. Its probably the later.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.10.04 22:34:00 -
[72]
TL;DR: CCP are flakes and unprofessional. (Who lets things carry on for 6-12 months with little to no feedback and leaves people hanging? CCP, that's who.) No big surprise there.
Sorry to hear all your hard work is pretty much going to waste Roc. -
Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.10.04 22:42:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 04/10/2010 22:46:37
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste This is a damn shame. Poor showing by CCP for keeping them hanging for so long.
This I'll agree with, while they are only 2 subscribers in a sea of thousands, it's best to at least let them down with a verbal or written communication rather than ignoring them....
All we know is they gave them a free flight to Iceland for a chat, and said their 'app' was good. Anything outside of that is just wishful thinking on behalf of Capsuleer.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Ygar Curele
Minmatar Aura of Darkness Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2010.10.04 22:45:00 -
[74]
Best app out there, sorry to hear things didn't work out anymore. Capsuleer will be missed by many.
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TYR3L
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Posted - 2010.10.04 22:45:00 -
[75]
Thought maybe when I saw that there was an item in the Capsuleer category in the app that it was going to be news about the next version. Sorry to hear about this. Capsuleer was one of my most used apps. Thanks for all the hard work.
Hope CCP has a plan and isn't just falling asleep at the wheel. |
Stick Cult
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Posted - 2010.10.04 22:47:00 -
[76]
Originally by: IloveRickAstley People make aps to make money.
Here you're simply wrong if you're applying this to every app made.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
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Raquel Smith
Caldari Freedom-Technologies Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr
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Posted - 2010.10.04 22:52:00 -
[77]
What is the actual revenue per month you guys need to make Capsuleer a worthy venture? Additionally what is required to host a push notification server?
-- Creator of The Ruby API Library |
Ix Forres
Caldari Righteous Chaps
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Posted - 2010.10.04 22:54:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste This is a damn shame. Poor showing by CCP for keeping them hanging for so long.
This I'll agree with, while they are only 2 subscribers in a sea of thousands, it's best to at least let them down with a verbal or written communication rather than ignoring them....
We don't know if CCP said anything about any business arrangement. All we know is they gave them a free flight to Iceland and said their 'app' was good. Anything outside of that is just wishful thinking on behalf of Capsuleer.
The probable cause for any vaugeness is that if there were more specific things discussed they would have been discussed under a non disclosure agreement. Very standard practice, even for an outfit like CCP. Agreed at the complete lack of professionalism in keeping things in the air for almost a year - what's worse is that I hear the same sort of story from people applying for jobs at CCP. Not an isolated issue.
As for those people claiming that it's not costing them anything to develop - no, it does. If you spend 6 hours a day developing something you don't get paid for, that's 6 hours a day you're not getting paid where you could be, which is a cost. I completely understand where Sam and Roc are coming from and wholeheartedly agree with their actions. It's sensible and it's the right thing for them to do. Sure, it sucks for the community, but let's be clear: CCP were given the opportunity to support Capsuleer and thus enable a fantastic tool to be made available to the community. They turned it down, the community is now without Capsuleer. There is no obligation on third party developers to continue to run their stuff or work on their tools beyond what they _want_ to do. If CCP wishes to support third party developers by providing them with business support, financial support or otherwise encouraging development, then that's CCP's decision to do so. They chose not to, and this is the result.
Speaking as a developer, I stopped actively working on my sites months ago but still pay a not insignificant (~ú100/mo) amount to keep them running with next to zero income from the community via donations. I keep them up because the community uses them and I hope finds them useful, but realistically there's no other reason for me to keep running it. I have no way to monetize my sites, and as such cannot justify spending a significant amount of time on them because I have to spend that time making ends meet and doing commercial work. Well done to Sam and Roc for making such a fantastic tool, and keeping it running as long as you have. Roc on. -- Ix Forres - 3rd Party Application Developer - EVE Metrics - accVIEW
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.10.04 23:00:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 04/10/2010 23:06:21 I'm far too drunk and spread too thin to deal with this.
That might be the case when it comes to CCP also. They made no promises, and aren't even binded by verbal agreements. Anything they discussed is just that; things they both discussed without being under NDAs. It's as much the responsibility of Capsuleer to make CCP sign an NDA as it is CCP to make them sign one.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
ChrisIsherwood
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Posted - 2010.10.04 23:26:00 -
[80]
Wait!
Have you explored the obvious marketing opportunity????
WoT is coming out of Beta. Go to that and get them to give you twenty or thirty thousand dollars and you run Apple iAD network advertisements along will branding it with WoT ads and links. Perhaps a simple "want a game to play while training skills?" button that was a link to special WoT offer. That's not a lot of money but it should help for a while. And it would not buy the Wot folks that many banner adds from Google
Explain to WoT that if they give you the money and Blizzard allows the ap to stay, then they get a perfect demographic for their target audience. And I and other EVE players continue to keep the ap. And CCP did not have to fund it. Everyone wins.
If CCP shuts you down, then explain to the WoT that this is the sort of p*ssing contest that press and bloggers love and they will get far, far far more than their money's worth in free PR even if the ap never ships.
IANAL, but what are you needing Blizzard's licensing of? Someone, who is never been a subscriber and thus has no ToS "contract" or agreement/obligation to CCP can access the URI for an API key. Do sites like EVEBoard have a contract with CCP? How is reading an API and formatting it for a browser differ than doing the same for an iOS application (other than the former is not required to learn objective C)? IANAL so just curious as to what people who have investigated it found out?
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Blastzilla
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Posted - 2010.10.04 23:42:00 -
[81]
Tbh, I'm surprised they waited/lasted this long. There is only so much you can do 'for the love of the game', before friends, family, your other half start asking you why you're spending 6 hours a day (almost a full-time job) of you life on something were your only reward is a nice thank you when you could be spending it with them. It's hard enough to find time to play the game. Maybe it'd make sense if they were selflessly finding a cure for cancer, but an iphone app? Meh...
That being said, I was gutted when I read their post. It's easily the most used app on my phone. The headline section alone was a huge source of entertainment and knowledge for me. It literally saved me Billions in isk from the things I learned from other people's blog experiences. Not to mention the skill queue reminders. Life savers right there.
Does anyone know if there's an app out there that collates the blog pack into an the same easy to access format?
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.10.04 23:54:00 -
[82]
Originally by: ChrisIsherwood Have you explored the obvious marketing opportunity????
Hi, I would like to inform you that this is a "**** Move". Don't do that.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
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Brannor McThife
Caldari Lambent Enterprises Black Core Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.04 23:58:00 -
[83]
Well this sucks.
First thing I read this morning on the train was this notice via the app...
I can understand the need to close it down with the changes to the API and not having funding to modify it. Hope it comes back oneday. I hate iClone... have tried to use it so many times, but damnit, it takes forever to update every time and I don't see all the nice blogs.
Wish CCP would just work with you guys to create a 3.0 version with the new API and EvE Gate features...
Bah humbug.
-G
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2010.10.05 00:50:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 04/10/2010 22:59:20
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste This is a damn shame. Poor showing by CCP for keeping them hanging for so long.
This I'll agree with, while they are only 2 subscribers in a sea of thousands, it's best to at least let them down with a verbal or written communication rather than ignoring them....
All we know is they gave them a free flight to Iceland for a chat, and said their 'app' was good. Anything outside of that is just wishful thinking on behalf of Capsuleer. I don't agree with the corporate mentality in most cases, but in this case CCP promised nothing and isn't obligated to respond to them.
They're not obligated, but it's bad form to start talks on something then when queried later not responding :P
Originally by: captain foivos Who would recruit someone named Barakkus?
Wait a minute...
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2010.10.05 00:55:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Blastzilla Tbh, I'm surprised they waited/lasted this long. There is only so much you can do 'for the love of the game', before friends, family, your other half start asking you why you're spending 6 hours a day (almost a full-time job) of you life on something were your only reward is a nice thank you when you could be spending it with them. It's hard enough to find time to play the game. Maybe it'd make sense if they were selflessly finding a cure for cancer, but an iphone app? Meh...
Um, lots of people do that regularly.
My latest project, a year and a half in the making: http://g0thicicecream.wordpress.com/2010/05/26/saying-good-bye-to-realplayer/
I do it all the time, I spend about as much time at my side projects as I do my real job (and playing mw:2)...I'm not looking to make any money on it, and when I finish it off I'll be distributing it for free (donations always accepted though).
Originally by: captain foivos Who would recruit someone named Barakkus?
Wait a minute...
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.10.05 01:02:00 -
[86]
Ok, I've given this some time to stew, and it seems to me: - I haven't seen a feature update from Capsuleer in a long time. I'm sad to hear that they've put so much effort (6 hrs/day?!) into Capsuleer, and that the new features will never see the light of day. I would have been more than happy to pay for an update, or even pay per feature with in game purchases. - It doesn't seem like the Capsuleer guys wanted a pay for app. It seems like they wanted to develop an app for CCP, and either become de facto CCP employees or have CCP buy the app off them. It seems an awkward way to go about it.
And ultimately, I think Capsuleer has a better (more familiar) UI, but iClone has come a *long* ways.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
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Brannor McThife
Caldari Lambent Enterprises Black Core Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.05 01:09:00 -
[87]
Can someone direct me to a way to still get all the blogs that were listed in Capsuleer in a central place?
-G
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Token Prophets
Yojimbo Heavy Industries C0NVICTED
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Posted - 2010.10.05 01:13:00 -
[88]
Capsuleer was the first iphone app I installed and has been fantastically useful from that day.
Sad to see it go.
So I'll give iclone a go, it's installing now, by god the download file is huge! |
Firenzianna
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Posted - 2010.10.05 01:14:00 -
[89]
Just another lost connection to the game for me. Capsuleer was my link to Eve while at work, waiting in line, on public transportation (using the bathroom). CCP is not obligated to support anybody's goals but thier own, but I dont see them having the time, money, or manpower (or passion) to make something as good as Capsuleer on their own. But nothing lasts forever, and I got my moneys worth out of it. Many thanks to PyjamaSam and Roc, and good luck.
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Morgs44
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.10.05 01:25:00 -
[90]
Yeah if you cant click a planet a thousand times or shoot a rat with in then CCP aren't interested!
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Typhado3
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.10.05 01:33:00 -
[91]
Sucks to see you go but I would love it if you guys released your source code or even just passed the project on to someone who wants to continue it. Leaving the project to gather dust is a shame. ------------------------------ God is an afk cloaker |
Mahashou
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Posted - 2010.10.05 01:41:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Mahashou on 05/10/2010 01:43:05 Noooo !!!
This really suck !! It is definitely the app I use the most every day !! I would be ready to pay for it for sure !! Common CCP don't let this happen !!!
What would be required to keep the project going ? Maybe people can help ! If this become an open source project I'm sure it would be successful !
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Xylopia
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.10.05 01:56:00 -
[93]
Why am I now so surprised? 'cuz this just shows how typical this really is in terms of CCP's reaction to the world outside.
Perhaps, it's not us who lost in New Eden. It's CCP who gets high with their stuff and lost within.
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Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.10.05 02:15:00 -
[94]
Thanks for a useful and free app, guys.
Best of luck with your current and future projects!
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Graic Valente
Gallente Valente Galactic Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.10.05 02:17:00 -
[95]
Expect EVE Gate iPhone app any day now.
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Blastzilla
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Posted - 2010.10.05 02:21:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Blastzilla Tbh, I'm surprised they waited/lasted this long. There is only so much you can do 'for the love of the game', before friends, family, your other half start asking you why you're spending 6 hours a day (almost a full-time job) of you life on something were your only reward is a nice thank you when you could be spending it with them. It's hard enough to find time to play the game. Maybe it'd make sense if they were selflessly finding a cure for cancer, but an iphone app? Meh...
Um, lots of people do that regularly.
My latest project, a year and a half in the making: http://g0thicicecream.wordpress.com/2010/05/26/saying-good-bye-to-realplayer/
I do it all the time, I spend about as much time at my side projects as I do my real job (and playing mw:2)...I'm not looking to make any money on it, and when I finish it off I'll be distributing it for free (donations always accepted though).
"I'll be distributing it for free". Really? Well obviously financially you're doing pretty well, so why don't you give me the license to your software, for free?
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2010.10.05 02:34:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Blastzilla
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Blastzilla Tbh, I'm surprised they waited/lasted this long. There is only so much you can do 'for the love of the game', before friends, family, your other half start asking you why you're spending 6 hours a day (almost a full-time job) of you life on something were your only reward is a nice thank you when you could be spending it with them. It's hard enough to find time to play the game. Maybe it'd make sense if they were selflessly finding a cure for cancer, but an iphone app? Meh...
Um, lots of people do that regularly.
My latest project, a year and a half in the making: http://g0thicicecream.wordpress.com/2010/05/26/saying-good-bye-to-realplayer/
I do it all the time, I spend about as much time at my side projects as I do my real job (and playing mw:2)...I'm not looking to make any money on it, and when I finish it off I'll be distributing it for free (donations always accepted though).
"I'll be distributing it for free". Really? Well obviously financially you're doing pretty well, so why don't you give me the license to your software, for free?
I would if there was a license to give :P
Originally by: captain foivos Who would recruit someone named Barakkus?
Wait a minute...
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Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
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Posted - 2010.10.05 03:00:00 -
[98]
Roc Wielers webcam
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Hack Harrison
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.10.05 03:05:00 -
[99]
I told my wife about them cancelling Capsuleer this morning. Whilst I was not happy, she was... Something about me stealing her iPhone to use Capsuleer as I haven't gotten around to getting one yet... Fix it CCP!!! (yes I know it is 3rd party - but they can do something about it)
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Devan Corvel
Tantalus Inc.
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Posted - 2010.10.05 03:18:00 -
[100]
Really unfortunate that this happened but thanks for all the hard work you guys have put in on capsuleer. Will be very sad to see it go.
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Candaan
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Posted - 2010.10.05 03:37:00 -
[101]
This is sad, it's such a good app with great potential. Before Capsuleer I never bothered with blogs. Great work guys, I'm sorry CCP doesn't have the fore-sight to develop your great idea.
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Umarillian
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Posted - 2010.10.05 05:54:00 -
[102]
Very depressing; First we lose Lestrange's blog and then the whole kitten kaboodle goes down the tubes. If CCP Releases a Iphone APP prior to any feasible development period I am going to be a tad bit ****ed. Nothing but thanks from me Roc, excellent work and enjoy your next project.
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Brentum Kaltarr
Elemental Foundries
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Posted - 2010.10.05 06:38:00 -
[103]
Thank you both, Roc Wieler & PyjamaSam! Your continuous efforts in bringing us Capsuleer and your efforts to cement it's presence on our mobile devices is very much appreciated.
'Tis sad that it's come to this but when a hobby / something fun becomes a labour that isn't enjoyable anymore for whatever reason, you're right to put it to one side until the idea of it becomes enjoyable again (wonder how many people arguing about motives in this thread have taken a break from Eve for the same reason... )
If you ever come back to it, know that Capsuleer is going to be staying on my phone purely out of hope...
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BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.05 06:51:00 -
[104]
but... but... how will I read Eve Blogs to entertain myself on the bus where my iPod Touch doesn't get wifi...
Sad news is sad...
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Mallikanth
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Posted - 2010.10.05 06:56:00 -
[105]
This whole thing should be addressed by CCP - they should either take on Capsuleer as a going concern and develop it themselves with the original authors perhaps, or create a new project. The latter is unlikely as you've already done most of the groundwork and as far as I know CCP's mobile team is no more.
Please CCP do *something* about this. It's a very useful and needed application and another gateway into the game (as it were).
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.10.05 07:23:00 -
[106]
There's already other iphone programs that do the same thing...if they're bad, then chances are some other enterprising person will come in to make something that doesn't suck, not to mention the availability of a similar program by separate developers on Android.
I'm not sure why this deserves special treatment by CCP. The OP is annoyed because CCP suggested they -might- go further with Capsuleer and make it more official, then decided not to.
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Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.10.05 07:28:00 -
[107]
They could always open source their work to date and let someone else continue to invest time and materials in developing it for the community.
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Mallikanth
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Posted - 2010.10.05 07:35:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 05/10/2010 07:29:43 There's already other iphone programs that do the same thing...if they're bad, then chances are some other enterprising person will come in to make something that doesn't suck, not to mention the availability of a similar program by separate developers on Android.
I'm not sure why this deserves special treatment by CCP. Capsuleer isn't anything special or amazing. It's just a program that's slightly better than one of the other options available on that platform (The iPhone) and arguably worse than stuff available on other platforms (Aura for Android)
While that's true CCP a good platform that's been adopted by the majority of the player base (who have that phone) to work from. Let them buy the IP rights etc to Capsuleer and they have a head start.
I can't say the game "needs" a Capsuleer application but having tasted the sweetness that it is I don't want to let go, and neither do allot of people it seems.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.10.05 07:40:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 05/10/2010 07:42:24
Quote:
While that's true CCP a good platform that's been adopted by the majority of the player base (who have that phone) to work from. Let them buy the IP rights etc to Capsuleer and they have a head start.
I can't say the game "needs" a Capsuleer application but having tasted the sweetness that it is I don't want to let go, and neither do allot of people it seems.
Wait, CCP should give the Capsuleer devs the right to sell it for profit because they're threatening to stop development if they don't?
No. That's not how that works. If Capsuleer is gone, someone else will replicate it. In fact, someone else already has. iClone exists. Similar applications exist for Android and Windows Mobile. If it sucks, then someone else will make something better.
There's only one reason for CCP to consider what the OP wants, and that is that CCP wants to add functionality to smartphones that goes above and beyond what access to the API can do. My guess is that CCP was considering it for awhile, and then either decided that they didn't want to add any of that functionality, or that they didn't want to do it through a third party.
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Miss Connolly
Public Relations Corp
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Posted - 2010.10.05 08:01:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Miss Connolly on 05/10/2010 08:05:18 I simply HATE your idea of making full API access cost money! That would totally screw up many other valuable tools just because you guys want to make money of your iPhone app.
I might be willing to pay you guys a dollar for capsuleer (once) but thats it.
All other tools (that take a lot more effort then your little API frontend) are free because they're made by fans and not business people (eg. EVEmon has 10 times the functionality of capsuleer but remains free). So why should you deserve any money for capsuleer exactly?
It's nice enough that CCP allows you to use their pictures and logos for free.
I might have supported you guys by buying or donating to capsuleer but after reading this thread I guess I'll stick with iClone (has way more features anyway). ___________________ "It was mentioned by CCP that the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells better than new features."
These are the people you are giving your money to. |
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Mallikanth
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Posted - 2010.10.05 08:14:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 05/10/2010 07:42:24
Quote:
While that's true CCP a good platform that's been adopted by the majority of the player base (who have that phone) to work from. Let them buy the IP rights etc to Capsuleer and they have a head start.
I can't say the game "needs" a Capsuleer application but having tasted the sweetness that it is I don't want to let go, and neither do allot of people it seems.
Wait, CCP should give the Capsuleer devs the right to sell it for profit because they're threatening to stop development if they don't?
No, That's not what I'm saying. What I mean is CCP could buy the rights to Capsuleer if they really want a presence in the mobile market.
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Blasphemour
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Posted - 2010.10.05 08:17:00 -
[112]
I read people here blaming CCP for not helping them. They have apparently promoted Capsuleer on FanFest, and talked about maybe doing some kind of business. From the developpers I hear nothing but 'we want to make money off of it'. If you start something up, make sure you know for sure you can monetize it if that is what you want. In this case it is not CCP who is to blame for disappointing users, it is the dev's of Capsuleer.
You complain about spending 6 hours a day on developping a new version, while not getting payed for it. No, you don't get paid for hobby projects. Hardly anybody has that luxury. What's the problem? Maybe you should've inquired with CCP and talked to them with a demo version BEFORE releasing it to the world.
There's a whole bunch of applications for all kind of platforms, which do the same or alot more than Capsuleer does. They are all free. All those developpers are not complaining about the API changes (they are making it better ffs, and you complain that you don't get payed for updating an application that you wrote on your own initiative, CCP didn't hire you to do it!), they just read the documentation, see if they can work with it and otherwise give up or ask other people for help.
You make it sound like CCP didn't live up to contracts or anything, while this is not the case. They might have looked into opportunities of supporting you but I cannot imagine that they where ever going to let you make money on their IP. This also would have set a precedent for other developpers who would've come to CCP for the same agreement. If one gets payed for it, others want it too. That being sad, even if you would have gotten the right to charge for it, people would have found something else, since there are loads of applications for free, that do the same or more.
Now, stop crying.
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.10.05 08:37:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Blasphemour I read people here blaming CCP for not helping them. They have apparently promoted Capsuleer on FanFest, and talked about maybe doing some kind of business. From the developpers I hear nothing but 'we want to make money off of it'. If you start something up, make sure you know for sure you can monetize it if that is what you want. In this case it is not CCP who is to blame for disappointing users, it is the dev's of Capsuleer.
You complain about spending 6 hours a day on developping a new version, while not getting payed for it. No, you don't get paid for hobby projects. Hardly anybody has that luxury. What's the problem? Maybe you should've inquired with CCP and talked to them with a demo version BEFORE releasing it to the world.
There's a whole bunch of applications for all kind of platforms, which do the same or alot more than Capsuleer does. They are all free. All those developpers are not complaining about the API changes (they are making it better ffs, and you complain that you don't get payed for updating an application that you wrote on your own initiative, CCP didn't hire you to do it!), they just read the documentation, see if they can work with it and otherwise give up or ask other people for help.
You make it sound like CCP didn't live up to contracts or anything, while this is not the case. They might have looked into opportunities of supporting you but I cannot imagine that they where ever going to let you make money on their IP. This also would have set a precedent for other developpers who would've come to CCP for the same agreement. If one gets payed for it, others want it too. That being sad, even if you would have gotten the right to charge for it, people would have found something else, since there are loads of applications for free, that do the same or more.
Now, stop crying.
Basically sums up my thoughts exactly, it's a shame it was posted by an alt!
I don't see how CCP are to blame for this in any way. They mentioned Capsuleer at FanFest, the Devs got a free trip to Iceland out of their efforts. Unless cast-iron (contract) promises were made then CCP are imo entirely blameless.
EveMon and EFT are 10x as comprehensive as Capsuleer was, and both are free and not ad-supported. Both projects are run entirely from blood, sweat and tears by people with day jobs. To lay the demise of Capsuleer at CCPs (tacitly or explicitly) is pretty disingenuous to be honest.
This whole blog post stinks of "we tried to monetise Capsuleer, failed, and have decided to jump on the iPhone money-making gravy train instead. Oh, btw it's CCPs fault." It's all well and good deciding to cease development to work on projects that make money, but that doesn't reconcile with the whole altruism angle being played here.
Capsuleer was (is) a slick little app, but it's no EveMon or even EFT, both of which have been free since they were released.
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Mallikanth
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Posted - 2010.10.05 08:38:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Blasphemour ...Now, stop crying.
That simple comment reflects the nature of the forums these days.
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Blasphemour
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Posted - 2010.10.05 08:41:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Durzel
Basically sums up my thoughts exactly, it's a shame it was posted by an alt!
I might be one of the few people here who actually posts on a main character. That this account might be one of the biggest failures ever to hit TQ does not make it an alt
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Cat o'Ninetails
Caldari Rancer Defence League Eternal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.10.05 09:12:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Siiee As much as I like Capsuleer, knowing that you were just chomping at the bit to monetize it
Champing. Champing. Champing. lol
anyway sadly i never got to use capsuleer because i dont have such a fancy device
how do you know if somebody has an iphone? they tell you lol
x
EVE Garden |
Illion
Amarr BIG Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.10.05 09:57:00 -
[117]
This is a real shame - the iphone is perhaps the most popular handlheld device ever, and eve benefitted massively by having this tool available.
Please CCP - either pay them to carry on or allow them to make money out of the IP!!
Ill.
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Siiee
Recycled Heroes
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Posted - 2010.10.05 10:04:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Typhado3 Sucks to see you go but I would love it if you guys released your source code or even just passed the project on to someone who wants to continue it. Leaving the project to gather dust is a shame.
Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas They could always open source their work to date and let someone else continue to invest time and materials in developing it for the community.
Noone's going to see a line of the source code, this isn't a community effort, or a pure labor of love. It's a premature commercial venture. They're not quitting because they don't have the time, or because they're bored of the game, they're quitting because they realize that they're not going to get paid. It doesn't make any sense for them to just throw it all out into the wild, they'll want to sit on it for as long as it's remotely relevant on the off chance that someday they'll be able to do something with it to offset what they invested in it's development.
And that's totally reasonable.
It doesn't make me feel any more sympathetic to their cause tho. I still think it's a bit annoying to try and make the players put pressure on CCP for them by publicly executing the project.
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Wacktopia
Bi-Tech Theory Focused Intentions
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Posted - 2010.10.05 10:18:00 -
[119]
Thought it was all quiet on the dev front - shame out that. One of the most-used iPhone apps for me too :(
Ehhh, maybe I'll bite the bullet and make a mobile thin client site if command is not up to it.
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Scrobes
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Posted - 2010.10.05 10:29:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Scrobes on 05/10/2010 10:30:39 This is tragic. I use this app every single day, going from/to work. The layout and presentation is brilliant and clear, and it's quick. It's one of the first apps I installed on my iPhone, and I use more than any other app! What a massive shame. Perhaps something might happen to save it. I certainly hope so.
Byebye blogpack. :(
Edit: The last bit is because I probably won't read blogs during day to day stuff. It was a nice benefit of Capsuleer.
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Cho Klat'Rane
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Posted - 2010.10.05 10:37:00 -
[121]
wow 6 hours a day on an app that was updated what 3 times since release and provides less live data than an iGoogle widget and was based on artwork made by someone else and only runs on one specific brand of mobile phone.
Nice app, I used it, but come on.
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Yosarian
Koshaku
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Posted - 2010.10.05 11:50:00 -
[122]
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Xavier Isaacson
Minmatar Hollow World Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2010.10.05 11:56:00 -
[123]
Its a sad day :( I actually bought an Ipod touch purely so that I could use the Capsuleer app, so it's sad to see that CCP couldn't see their way clear to giving you guys the support you so obviously deserved. I have personally introduced over a dozen of my friends to EVE, purely because they caught me checking my Capsuleer app, these people are all now permanent subscribers.
I sincerely hope that CCP rethinks this bad choice and gets back on board, then I can go back to showing off the glory of EVE on my Ipod
Originally by: Verone BBC Trust are a sack of arses.
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Lain Khazar
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.10.05 12:02:00 -
[124]
I'm totaly with Blasphemour and Durzel here.
What is Capsuleer? A good API-readout tool. And that's about it. What it makes outstanding is the lack of capability at CCP to simply provide a mobile optimized website(!) with standard login to watch your characters, balance and stuff. Without all this API-stuff which is a pain in the ass on smartphones (and kudos to you guys, you found a clever way to handle this).
With this website, almost all features of Capsuleer would be obsolete because this is basically what Capsuleer does. Accessing the API and displaying it in a nice way. I know there is some more (like the skilllist and stuff but this isn't *that* pro and helpful and you don't really need it if you are on the road)
But your post reads just states "We want to make money out of this and we can't so we drop the project" and this is where I say: WTF? As someone stated: there are so many superior (but not mobile) tools out there, which are provided for FREE. EFT, EveMon, Evemaps and more. EveMon is even open source so it's almost guaranteed it will never die. EVE is still a game and Capsuleer is what I would call a hobby project of enthusiastic fans. If you can get some ISK donations for it, or maybe even some real money (if CCP would allow this) fine, if not: life goes on.
Thank you for Capsuleer though, I would have spent some money for it (one time payment) but reading this post and seeing your attitude about your "product"(!), your plans about subscription(!) and stuff, I starting to think it is good the project dies and that you are seeing a hobby project as a way too serious way to make real money.
Good luck with your other iPhone apps (and yes, I'm serious on this).
sig goes here: Crane needs more grid (<-this!) |
Dr Neba
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Posted - 2010.10.05 12:12:00 -
[125]
http://www.iclone.org.uk/ |
Blasphemour
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Posted - 2010.10.05 12:14:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Xavier Isaacson Its a sad day :( I actually bought an Ipod touch purely so that I could use the Capsuleer app, so it's sad to see that CCP couldn't see their way clear to giving you guys the support you so obviously deserved. I have personally introduced over a dozen of my friends to EVE, purely because they caught me checking my Capsuleer app, these people are all now permanent subscribers.
I sincerely hope that CCP rethinks this bad choice and gets back on board, then I can go back to showing off the glory of EVE on my Ipod
Are you friggin' serious? You bought an iPod JUST for Capsuleer? That's pretty stupid if you ask me...
And about deserving support.. Does Evemon get support from CCP? Or EFT? Or Aura, for Android phones? Why is it that iPhone/iPod users/developpers always think they deserve something more? The whole Apple cult seems to be getting worse and worse. I'm a Mac user at home because they work amazingly well for what I want them to do, but I don't feel special or anything.
Again, they decided to write the application themselves, they were not hired, not even asked to do it. CCP promoted it for them, had some talks on maybe giving some support in one way or the other, but it got cancelled or w/e. We weren't there so we don't know what happened or what was discussed exactly.
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Shirley Serious
Amarr The Khanid Sisters of Athra
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Posted - 2010.10.05 12:26:00 -
[127]
Quote: A subscription based platform for full API functionality was proposed to CCP to monetize Capsuleer, while keeping limited API features free for all users.
I don't understand this sentence in the OP.
Limited API free for all users? Users of what? Capsuleer?
Yes. Yes, I am. |
Roc Wieler
Masuat'aa Matari
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Posted - 2010.10.05 12:28:00 -
[128]
Please do not make any real money donations to ANY account that is not posted from myself or PyjamaSam.
Already, there have been accounts, such as Capsuleer Donations, asking for your money. None of these accounts are legitimate or associated with us in any way.
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Roc Wieler
Masuat'aa Matari
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Posted - 2010.10.05 12:32:00 -
[129]
Two things I want to clear up:
1. Capsuleer currently has over 60,000 users, more than any other mobile EVE app. Period. 2. 6 hours per day of development was on the slated 2.1 release features such as a completely searchable items database that was far quicker than EVE itself, not 90 megs to download (under 5 megs actually), a context based Agent Search, a Media section for watching Alliance tournaments and other EVE related media, as well as many non API related features.
Again, I appreciate those who supported us, and respect everyone's right to their opinion, even though they haven't been a part of this process in any way, so really have no clue at the end of the day.
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tiita
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Posted - 2010.10.05 12:46:00 -
[130]
whoah! what a shellschock!
loved capsuleer. i'm very sad it will be no more as it was very useful.
best of luck for the future..
ccp, what a missed occasion! new sig on the way |
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Niraia
Gallente GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.10.05 12:47:00 -
[131]
"as neither Chris nor Marcus were able to invest the amount of effort it took to maintain and develop the Capsuleer platform for free."
So you dropped it because of greed. Got it. Other people do this stuff for fun, and you give them a bad name. gtfo o/ eohpoker.com sanshasnation.net
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Foundation Vox
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Posted - 2010.10.05 12:48:00 -
[132]
Originally by: NeoTheo Iclone was 400 million times better anyhow, all i read here was "we wanted to make money out of this, it didnt happen /quit"
I used it for like 2 weeks untill i found iclone.
iClone is ugly. At least capsuleer was elegent, responsive and did what it did very well. Didn't do a whole lot but it was free. Don't blame the guy for wanting to get paid. If you developed software (maybe you do) you might feel differently. I would have paid 1-3 dollars for the app easily. I think the others here that mention EVE Gate hit the nail on the head though.
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RiotRick
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.10.05 13:01:00 -
[133]
Sad to see capsuleer go. It was a very slick and useful app in which you put a lot of effort. --
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Dragon Greg
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Posted - 2010.10.05 13:05:00 -
[134]
So .. OP spent two years waiting for CCP to commit to a mobility platform and is surprised nothing materialised in spite of communications.
It's a bandwidth company, that became clear at the first fanfest and has been emphasises ever since, I'm surprised you took two years to realise that nothing would ever materialise. Capsuleer like every third party app is free marketing and advertising for them, there is no need to commit to joint ventures for CCP.
Shame to see it go.
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Ix Forres
Caldari Righteous Chaps
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Posted - 2010.10.05 13:26:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Niraia "as neither Chris nor Marcus were able to invest the amount of effort it took to maintain and develop the Capsuleer platform for free."
So you dropped it because of greed. Got it. Other people do this stuff for fun, and you give them a bad name. gtfo o/
No, it was dropped because people have to be able to eat, and spending all your time and money on free projects does not help you.
They provided the app for free for years for the community, only seeking to monetize it when they had to, and attempting to do so in a way that would be of most benefit to the community rather than making the most money for themselves.
That's not greed. People like me used to do this stuff for fun but the reality is, spending 12 hours a day on a free app does not enable you to buy food, pay your rent, and so on. That is not greed; that is necessity and basic financial common sense. -- Ix Forres - 3rd Party Application Developer - EVE Metrics - accVIEW
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Orange Lagomorph
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Posted - 2010.10.05 13:31:00 -
[136]
While it is not my intention to disparage the quality of the application or the efforts of its developers, I'm not sure why Capsuleer should receive monetization when pretty much every other fan-made tool has received nothing of the sort.
EVEMon and EFT are prime examples. Almost everyone uses them; they're practically an extension of the game itself, yet I'm not aware of CCP providing the developers with a single dime.
There are also several community-run sites, such BattleClinic, EVE Central and EVE Agents, that surely required and still require time and resources to develop. I suppose they have ads, though, even if not officially monetized.
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Cailais
Amarr Atomic Heroes The G0dfathers
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Posted - 2010.10.05 13:32:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Dragon Greg So .. OP spent two years waiting for CCP to commit to a mobility platform and is surprised nothing materialised in spite of communications.
It's a bandwidth company, that became clear at the first fanfest and has been emphasises ever since, I'm surprised you took two years to realise that nothing would ever materialise. Capsuleer like every third party app is free marketing and advertising for them, there is no need to commit to joint ventures for CCP.
Shame to see it go.
That's true, up unto a point. It's worth noting that both E-ON magazine and Serenity Steels Universe Maps however must have been formulated around about the same time.
With that perspective I can see how Capsuleers developers might have held out hope of a closer partnership with CCP and possibly seen some financial future for their project i.e they had a precedence of sorts.
Personally, despite the initial enthusiasm from CCP I would have heard the alarm bells ringing much, much earlier when nothing concrete occurred - in essence Capsuleer made their sales pitch and failed to secure a sale. It happens.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Duties
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Posted - 2010.10.05 13:39:00 -
[138]
Its a shame, such a nice app! I really hope to see it back online again in the future.
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Dr Sheepbringer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.10.05 13:41:00 -
[139]
NoOooo!!!! I can't live without this app! NOOOOO!!
Darn buggers. Sorry to hear about it, but in truth this happens often and mostly it's due to false "savior" ideas. Did you guys think about making capsuleer a paid app? I mean any of the users would probably have paid (i would have) because they know how good the app is (and it is good...iclone sucks).
But alas, I understand. Shame though. Hope you guys have good stuff coming in the future. A
Originally by: CCP Shadow Dr. Sheepbringer -- It's not that kind of horn.
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Dragon Greg
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Posted - 2010.10.05 13:43:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Dragon Greg So .. OP spent two years waiting for CCP to commit to a mobility platform and is surprised nothing materialised in spite of communications.
It's a bandwidth company, that became clear at the first fanfest and has been emphasises ever since, I'm surprised you took two years to realise that nothing would ever materialise. Capsuleer like every third party app is free marketing and advertising for them, there is no need to commit to joint ventures for CCP.
Shame to see it go.
That's true, up unto a point. It's worth noting that both E-ON magazine and Serenity Steels Universe Maps however must have been formulated around about the same time.
With that perspective I can see how Capsuleers developers might have held out hope of a closer partnership with CCP and possibly seen some financial future for their project i.e they had a precedence of sorts.
Personally, despite the initial enthusiasm from CCP I would have heard the alarm bells ringing much, much earlier when nothing concrete occurred - in essence Capsuleer made their sales pitch and failed to secure a sale. It happens.
C.
That is exactly the point I'm making. Bandwidth company in business development. One thing at a time only, in spite of growing resources available. |
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Niraia
Gallente GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.10.05 14:00:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Ix Forres
Originally by: Niraia "as neither Chris nor Marcus were able to invest the amount of effort it took to maintain and develop the Capsuleer platform for free."
So you dropped it because of greed. Got it. Other people do this stuff for fun, and you give them a bad name. gtfo o/
No, it was dropped because people have to be able to eat, and spending all your time and money on free projects does not help you.
They provided the app for free for years for the community, only seeking to monetize it when they had to, and attempting to do so in a way that would be of most benefit to the community rather than making the most money for themselves.
That's not greed. People like me used to do this stuff for fun but the reality is, spending 12 hours a day on a free app does not enable you to buy food, pay your rent, and so on. That is not greed; that is necessity and basic financial common sense.
Writing free software while you starve to death is common sense? Wouldn't it make more sense to just release later so you can eat? That's necessity. This is bull****. |
Ix Forres
Caldari Righteous Chaps
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Posted - 2010.10.05 14:08:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Niraia Writing free software while you starve to death is common sense? Wouldn't it make more sense to just release later so you can eat? That's necessity. This is bull****.
Uh, read my post? Common sense is to _not_ write your free app which takes up all your time, or to try and do it in conjunction with a paying job and the rest of your life. For some of us, that's not a viable option - there are other things that take priority. -- Ix Forres - 3rd Party Application Developer - EVE Metrics - accVIEW
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Stick Cult
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Posted - 2010.10.05 14:08:00 -
[143]
Edited by: Stick Cult on 05/10/2010 14:12:17 While I disagree with letting it go because you can't get money for it, I don't think you should let it die. If you make it open source, I'm sure someone or some group of people will pick up where you left off, making a great app greater and continuing it. The server for pushes can't cost that much, I'm sure someone will do it, and if not, well, no pushes then!
But not making money off of it is not a reason to simply let it die. If you're done with it, let someone else continue it.
edit: Even if no one else implements features, they can at least do the occasional fix when CCP changes things in the API, and keep it on the store.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
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Silent Shaz
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Posted - 2010.10.05 14:10:00 -
[144]
Although I'm not an iPhone user (I use Aura on Android) it's sad to see this reportedly great app go. I hope that this deadline encourages CCP to take some action to work out a future for Capsuleer, but I think they have their hands full with QA issues at the moment...
If it lives again, great. If not, I'm sure you'll be successful in future ventures. Just keep pumping out those slammin' tunes Roc :)
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Crias Taylor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.10.05 14:11:00 -
[145]
Stopped using your ****ty app when you made me download your ****ty blog posts.
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Niraia
Gallente GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.10.05 14:22:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Ix Forres
Originally by: Niraia Writing free software while you starve to death is common sense? Wouldn't it make more sense to just release later so you can eat? That's necessity. This is bull****.
Uh, read my post? Common sense is to _not_ write your free app which takes up all your time, or to try and do it in conjunction with a paying job and the rest of your life. For some of us, that's not a viable option - there are other things that take priority.
I agree, but they did it anyway, and now they seem to be all whiney about not making money, pulling the app rather than leaving it in its current state. Why didn't this guy continue development at a slower pace to fit in with the rest of his life? If he didn't have any spare time, why not release the source and let others with more time keep it alive? It comes across as selfish and childish, thus my greed comment. eohpoker.com sanshasnation.net
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Themanfromdalmontee
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Posted - 2010.10.05 14:22:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Crias Taylor Stopped using your ****ty app when you made me download your ****ty blog posts.
I sense much rage in this one, he shall be a sith lord and control many lands
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Adaris
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.10.05 14:51:00 -
[148]
I am truely sorry to see this fantastic service go. I can only sympathise with your reasons, and cast a sad look towards CCP for missing a possible business venture which could have made them money, made you money and made us all happy.
I wish you look in the future. My iPhone just lost a key feature. *******
- ISK ME UP -
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TGO
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Posted - 2010.10.05 15:32:00 -
[149]
I suspect CCP did indeed lead the capsuleer team on a bit, however expecting to make any amount of money off a tool for someone else's game is... silly. There have been far more resource intensive projects started completed and maintained for free not just for EvE but for every popular MMO out there.
I don't begrudge anyone for not wanting to work for free, but don't act as if it would be anything short incredible generous (and possibly problematic) for CCP to help you make *any* money whilst doing nothing to help the dozens of other developers some of which have larger communities that you.
I began to regret my donation to capsuleer (meager as it was) when i realized Roc's blog was the only one that couldn't be hidden in the headlines pattern. He had every right to do it, just as the capsuleer team has every right to abandon their project but it speaks to a lack of character.
Also:
Originally by: Roc Wieler
2. 6 hours per day of development was on the slated 2.1 release features such as a completely searchable items database that was far quicker than EVE itself, not 90 megs to download (under 5 megs actually), a context based Agent Search, a Media section for watching Alliance tournaments and other EVE related media, as well as many non API related features.
in retrospect i hope you realize the error here. You don't leave a tool in limbo for a year while you more than double it's complexity never once releasing an of the new features to the public for testing and feedback (no alpha/beta testing doesn't count). This is a great way to burn yourself out on something whilst in the end have *nothing* to show for it. If for whatever reason CCP was seriously considering an arrangement that would financially benefit you.. i doubt very much that your lack of discernible progress over the course of a year helped your case.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2010.10.05 15:34:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Illion This is a real shame - the iphone is perhaps the most popular handlheld device ever, and eve benefitted massively by having this tool available.
No, the Blackberry is still beating the iPhone.
Originally by: captain foivos Who would recruit someone named Barakkus?
Wait a minute...
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2010.10.05 15:38:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Ix Forres
Originally by: Niraia "as neither Chris nor Marcus were able to invest the amount of effort it took to maintain and develop the Capsuleer platform for free."
So you dropped it because of greed. Got it. Other people do this stuff for fun, and you give them a bad name. gtfo o/
No, it was dropped because people have to be able to eat, and spending all your time and money on free projects does not help you.
I'm sorry that's just assinine to think they spent all their time and money developing a simple application that reads some xml feeds and displays it on a stupid cell phone.
Originally by: captain foivos Who would recruit someone named Barakkus?
Wait a minute...
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MasterEnt
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Posted - 2010.10.05 15:57:00 -
[152]
Edited by: MasterEnt on 05/10/2010 16:06:19 Edited by: MasterEnt on 05/10/2010 16:06:05
Im sorry to hear this - iis a great app and I as well was hoping it would grow.
But i have to wonder why you did not use the same resources others use to make some money from the apps - advertising for one, payment for another. I would have EASILY paid $5 for this app depending on how much it would let me browse. Maybe $10-15 if it had an item browser, map, jump planner and other similar things
I suggest you add some content to the app and sell it for $10. If you really have 60,000 users x $10 = $600,000 -30% for a total of $510,000 + Ad revenue Even if you make only 1/2 of that, you are good.
WTF if the problem? You got the talent a lot of people don't have with the programing - but IMHO you need to learn a bit more about business.
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Crias Taylor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.10.05 16:24:00 -
[153]
Use iClone. It is missing only headlines, push notification for skills and a ****ty blog by its app developer.
The only thing I used it for really was alerts but I can just make calendar entries.
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Dogsarepe
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.10.05 16:26:00 -
[154]
I frequented Capsuleer on my iPhone and very much appreciated it. Never had a problem pitching in $0.99 for something like that.
Having been forced to switch carriers with a relocation and trying out a phone running Android though.... well, my iPhone will remain an iTouch now.
I guess this may be a bit off topic, but Apple's proprietary "our way or no way (or at least we'll make it very difficult for you to do your own way)" approach to business is backfiring on them once again. They got a huge market with that phone already of course; but damn, can't even begin to imagine the money they could have made had they opened things up a bit. Would have thought Jobs had learned by now. It's a great little piece of hardware, but for the sake of intelligent users everywhere, open it up and let people run with it! (because they are going to anyway)
So, there are a number of other EVE mobile apps out there and even better ones in development right now. Some free and others not to be. CCP is top notch in the development and production business imo, and I'd be surprised if they were placing all their eggs in one basket at any given time. It's all good, it's all fun, but it is still business after all. And in the end... there was the beginning. |
Dragon Greg
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Posted - 2010.10.05 16:29:00 -
[155]
Originally by: MasterEnt Edited by: MasterEnt on 05/10/2010 16:06:19 Edited by: MasterEnt on 05/10/2010 16:06:05
Im sorry to hear this - iis a great app and I as well was hoping it would grow.
But i have to wonder why you did not use the same resources others use to make some money from the apps - advertising for one, payment for another. I would have EASILY paid $5 for this app depending on how much it would let me browse. Maybe $10-15 if it had an item browser, map, jump planner and other similar things
I suggest you add some content to the app and sell it for $10. If you really have 60,000 users x $10 = $600,000 -30% for a total of $510,000 + Ad revenue Even if you make only 1/2 of that, you are good.
WTF if the problem? You got the talent a lot of people don't have with the programing - but IMHO you need to learn a bit more about business.
For that it seems they would need that communication with CCP and permission and all that. |
Nergart
Gallente GWA Corp
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Posted - 2010.10.05 16:39:00 -
[156]
ok well as stated before that sucks, an app ive really enjoyed afterall it works very well. shame about not being able to get a deal with ccp.
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DonHel
Gallente Kentucky Fried Capsuleer
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Posted - 2010.10.05 17:20:00 -
[157]
Originally by: MasterEnt Edited by: MasterEnt on 05/10/2010 16:06:19 Edited by: MasterEnt on 05/10/2010 16:06:05
Im sorry to hear this - iis a great app and I as well was hoping it would grow.
But i have to wonder why you did not use the same resources others use to make some money from the apps - advertising for one, payment for another. I would have EASILY paid $5 for this app depending on how much it would let me browse. Maybe $10-15 if it had an item browser, map, jump planner and other similar things
I suggest you add some content to the app and sell it for $10. If you really have 60,000 users x $10 = $600,000 -30% for a total of $510,000 + Ad revenue Even if you make only 1/2 of that, you are good.
WTF if the problem? You got the talent a lot of people don't have with the programing - but IMHO you need to learn a bit more about business.
they need CCP permission before they can make a dime off it
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Woodspoon
Gallente Nerfherders
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Posted - 2010.10.05 17:44:00 -
[158]
CCP YOU SUCK!
Capsuleer is/was an awesome app Stalling or just failing to get in contact with the Capsuleer team after saying how great you thought it was is a real crappy move. CCP was a small company once that needed help and someone helped you.
Congrats CCP you've ****ed off thousands of loyal EvE players (yet) again
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Amarok Tonrar
Dark Shadow Industries
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Posted - 2010.10.05 17:48:00 -
[159]
Edited by: Amarok Tonrar on 05/10/2010 17:52:17 Edited by: Amarok Tonrar on 05/10/2010 17:51:25 I don't own an IPhone or an Android or any of the other fancy phones. I have however heard of Capsuleer and have seen the various photos of it. Sounded like a really useful tool and as with any good Eve tool, always saddened to hear its closing doors. At first I was on the side of the CCP haters in here screaming for "justice" and for CCP to step up and do something. HOWEVER, previous comments here certainly hold a lot of truth and thus my thoughts have changed.
Apps like this are and should be done by people simply due to their love for the game. This is their hobby. This is their own little pet project. This is NOT CCPs doing. Getting paid because they put in so many hours a day on a project they did because, one would think, they enjoyed doing? It's a nice dream but not one we should hold CCP accountable for when CCP doesn't come through. Lots of other devs create apps to better our Eve addicted lives, and I'm sure a lot of them would love to be paid for all their hard work.
Which brings me to my second point. I'm no lawyer but I'm sure there is a LOT of legal issues involved in allowing others, 3rd party applications, to make money off of your game. By allowing one to get paid, they could open a flood gate that may be impossible to control. Soon, every party under the sun who's created even the smallest of apps for Eve, could be busting down their door seeking financial options. And the dangerous ramifications of it could extend even further than that.
Sure, CCP flew them to Iceland and made such statements as ôCapsuleer ****ing rocksö. But then how many times have we heard how awesome EveMon is from CCP? Quite often. More so than Capsuleer I'd say. This is just my opinion, but I really think it was more a pat on the back and a good PR boost to say, "here's one of the pinnacle pieces of software YOU, the customer, can do with the API!" and then Mr PyjamaSam and Mr. Roc Weiler took those words and ran with it, dollar signs floating in their heads.
Now, I have to ask, if that had never happened, would you still be closing shop? Probably not. I mean, maybe for another reason but not due to lack of income on the project, finger pointing at CCP.
However, I WILL point my finger at CCP and say, perhaps it's best you watch your p's and q's a little more closely. If you did make any intentional insinuations of doing business with these guys or anyone else, then you definitely should learn to follow through a lot better.
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Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
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Posted - 2010.10.05 17:54:00 -
[160]
I am sure going to miss Capsuleer too... It has been one of my hotbar apps since I installed it on my iPhone.
Thank you so much guys, sorry you arnt able to continue supporting it.
------------------------ Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer "I've got a couple of Strippers on my ship... and they just love to dance!" ------------------------ |
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2010.10.05 17:56:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Woodspoon CCP YOU SUCK!
Capsuleer is/was an awesome app Stalling or just failing to get in contact with the Capsuleer team after saying how great you thought it was is a real crappy move. CCP was a small company once that needed help and someone helped you.
Congrats CCP you've ****ed off a few hundred of loyal apple users.
FYP.
I don't see this as a big deal. One service provider of a few that produce a similar service stopped providing a service. So what? They want a job instead of working on a hobby project, so they stopped doing it and will turn to work on a more profitable project. Undestandable and not a big loss.
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Devoyd
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.10.05 18:30:00 -
[162]
That's too bad, Capsuleer was my most used app on my iPhone. You will be missed!
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Steveir
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Posted - 2010.10.05 18:56:00 -
[163]
I use this app nearly every day; so this is really bad news :( Hopefully CCP and you guys can work out a deal as this really sucks, and everyone loses out here, user, apps writers, and CCP. If only we could bang a few head together here, clearly this should be fixable.
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Crias Taylor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.10.05 18:59:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Steveir I use this app nearly every day; so this is really bad news :( Hopefully CCP and you guys can work out a deal as this really sucks, and everyone loses out here, user, apps writers, and CCP. If only we could bang a few head together here, clearly this should be fixable.
Not going to happen after this thread :D
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Tekei
Woopatang Primary.
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Posted - 2010.10.05 19:01:00 -
[165]
I've used Capsuleer every day since I installed it and it is by far the most app I have on my phone. I will really miss this app for the blog pack if nothing else.
Reading the blogs while travelling, or simply not just at home has taught me more about eve than anything else and it has definitely helped my motivation to find new interesting things to do in-game as well. (I know much of that is due to all the awesome blogs in the blog pack, but I just don't read a lot of blogs from my home computer since I spend my time doing other stuff, but through Capsuleer it was just so easy to find an interesting read.)
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Trimmok
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Posted - 2010.10.05 19:09:00 -
[166]
So what the hell am I meant to read at work now,
Was a very good app thanks for all the work you put into it.
Will be missed very much.
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Dorn Val
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Posted - 2010.10.05 20:15:00 -
[167]
I have Capsuleer on my home row at the bottom of my iPhone screen since I use it so much. REALLY sucks that I'll be forced to down grade to iClone :(
To CCP: Eve Gate is slow and doesn't format well on a mobile device so I rarely use it when on the road...
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Krispy Dingo
Minmatar Strangers in a Strange Land
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Posted - 2010.10.05 20:21:00 -
[168]
As I said earlier, I am sad to see Capsuleer go, but there are a few things:
- You can still read the blog pack/announcements/devblogs. Go get NetNewsWire. It will sync with google reader and you can add the blog pack to it through a link on CKs page and subscribe to the CCP feeds from their pages.
- iClone has come a long way, and I remember reading that the dev is planning on making it so you don't have to update everything when you launch the app.
- If you want web based, EVE Commander is supposed to be creating a mobile version. Go to http://www.eve-commander.com/history.cfm and scroll to Yet To Do at the bottom. No timeline, but that doesn't mean it won't be there soonÖ.
- And this is one I have often wondered myself, what good does it really do you to monitor your accounts on your iPhone? I have the ability to VNC into my home PC from anywhere, launch EVE, and update queues, but I know not everyone can do that. Just a random question, reallyà
- Where is the correlation between Capsuleer and EVE Gate? SpaceBook and a training monitor with RSS reader(I know, it wasn't REALLY an RSS reader, there was back end **** on the server) are not alike. At all.
- Other stuff.
_____________________________ http://twitter.com/krispy_dingo http://krispydingo.com |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.10.05 20:51:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Roc Wieler
CCP was gracious enough to fly Chris and Marcus to Iceland for Fanfest, to discuss business opportunities between CCP and Capsuleer. CCP expressed their genuine excitement and interest in working with Marcus and Chris in some capacity, and committed to internal research to see what could be done to accommodate a business relationship.
...
A subscription based platform for full API functionality was proposed to CCP to monetize Capsuleer, while keeping limited API features free for all users.
This reads to me like the Capsuleer devs asked CCP for tiered/subscription based API access for devs with a business relationship with CCP. This would imply that some apps/developers had preferential treatment from CCP and had access to more/better data than everyone else with free apps. Roc, can you clarify this a bit?
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
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Reiko Yamamoto
Shiva
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Posted - 2010.10.05 21:09:00 -
[170]
Petition up- bring back 'capsuleer'!
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1394479
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Ma'kal
The Imperial Commonwealth Damage Control II
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Posted - 2010.10.05 21:36:00 -
[171]
This really makes me sad. This app was a very helpful tool in the arsenal of an Eve player. Part of me wonders if CCP is developing their own app and has hence lost interest in this application.
If that is the reason well it makes sense to do something yourself rather than dish it out to a third party if you can profit yourself. But, if CCP isn't communicating or working with you just cause, that would just be too bad. Because I really enjoy your app.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2010.10.05 21:36:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Reiko Yamamoto Petition up- bring back 'capsuleer'!
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1394479
It has absolutely NOTHING to do with CCP. It's 2 crybabies packing up their toys and going home because they aren't getting permission to make money off CCP's intellectual property. **** em, they want to be juvenile about it find something else written by non-spoiled brats.
I would do absolutely nothing about it if I were CCP, the attitude and premise they developed the app under was selfish and completely unrealistic.
If they truly cared about it they would just let someone else take over the development if they're no longer interested in doing anything further with it.
CCP won't give a **** about your petition and they shouldn't either. It's not in their best interest to cater to 2 crybabies like that, and the ramifications of allowing people to profit from their IP is not in CCP's best interest.
You should be petitioning the authors, not CCP.
Originally by: captain foivos Who would recruit someone named Barakkus?
Wait a minute...
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Esker Sheep
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Posted - 2010.10.05 22:02:00 -
[173]
Edited by: Esker Sheep on 05/10/2010 22:03:18 I've used Capsuleer since it was released. I've now deleted it.
It was always unrealistic to invest vast amounts of time in development, expecting to be able to monetize it, without something in writing from CCP. That's just business reality.
I don't understand why it the current version has to be removed. You still play EVE right, does it really cost that much to run the server needed to provide the news feeds and occasional skill updates? That part smacks of throwing the baby out with the bath water. You guys made yourselves a good name, and generated a lot of goodwill, the lack of future development would be understood, the removing of the current version will just loose you all that goodwill.
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ToJoBo
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Posted - 2010.10.05 23:49:00 -
[174]
I'll check with my IP lawyer when I next speak to him, but AFAIK, as long as no unattributed trademarks are used or any non-public information shown, there's no IP conflict.
Essentially, Capsuleer is just another HTTP user agent. It happens to understand a specific XML format and transform the results in a way that is different than how a browser transforms it, but unless Opera or Firefox is causing a conflict, an iPhone app that parses the API results can't be a conflict.
Now, I think Capsuleer does aggressive transformations with their own servers (acting as middleware), so there could be some claims against "republishing" or "derivative" information if they aren't acting as a simple, "dumb" HTTP cache. Still, ultimately, the app sends some HTTP requests and parses the results, showing them as something other than plain text. Plenty of precedents with browsers showing that such use is fair. It's a specialized browser.
Aside from the spurious claims that displaying info via a special type of browser (aka, Capsuleer) is an IP conflict, there's a logical error in the monetization discussion. If commercial "use" of the Eve API is an issue, it doesn't matter if it's a paid app, micropayments, advertising, or branded sponsorship. It's either ok to make cash, or not. And it would have to be enforced universally by CCP - sending a cease and desist to every site with an ad or PLEX sale link or with AdSense running - all within a window of time.
I've just gone through this with my own IP protection. Implicit consent exists (in US courts) if the IP owner knows of a conflict but fails to serve notice within a "reasonable" amount of time.
CCP has obviously not done this with sites, nor did they (apparently) with the use of ads in Capsuleer. An IP owner can't retroactively pick and choose revenue sources or methods. It's either PERMIT USE, or DO NOT PERMIT USE.
I think the whole thing is either:
1. Smoke and mirrors by the Capsuleer team (doubtful) 2. CCP acting as a bully and the Capsuleer team not having an IP lawyer on retainer (likely) 3. The use not being understood on a technical level (more likely with the end user than CCP or Capsuleer) 4. Some infringement that may exist in the architecture of Capsuleer specifically. Bundling a CCP-provided DB with the app that may have certain licenses, for example. (very likely) 5. The use of trademarks owned by CCP that may lead a reasonable consumer to believe Capsuleer is a CCP product (good claim here if CCP wanted to pursue it.)
Ultimately, embedding a WebView in an app that shows raw API result calls would be considered a (very limited) browser. Decorating those results with art NOT owned by CCP should fall within the same fair use.
Again - IANAL but I have been neck deep in this type of thing lately.
I also have to admit that, though I've read the "Website terms of service" for eveonline.com, I've not seen a license for the API yet - so there could be very, very specific prohibitions I've not yet found. The "Website" TOS forbids linking from anywhere but another site's "homepage" - seemingly an incredibly antiquated, useless, boilerplate TOS that wouldn't stand in a US court, given prior precedents.
I'll dig into an API license when I can find it.
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Professor Garvey
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.10.05 23:55:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue
Originally by: Woodspoon CCP YOU SUCK!
Capsuleer is/was an awesome app Stalling or just failing to get in contact with the Capsuleer team after saying how great you thought it was is a real crappy move. CCP was a small company once that needed help and someone helped you.
Congrats CCP you've ****ed off a few hundred of loyal apple users.
FYP.
I don't see this as a big deal. One service provider of a few that produce a similar service stopped providing a service. So what? They want a job instead of working on a hobby project, so they stopped doing it and will turn to work on a more profitable project. Undestandable and not a big loss.
It's not CCP's decision to pull the app from the itunes store. You can leave free apps in the store forever if you want to. They must have other motivations for pulling the app all together.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.10.06 00:07:00 -
[176]
Originally by: ToJoBo
I think the whole thing is either:
1. Smoke and mirrors by the Capsuleer team (doubtful, but something is strange) 2. CCP acting as a bully and the Capsuleer team not having an IP lawyer on retainer (likely) 3. The use not being understood on a technical level (more likely with the end user than CCP or Capsuleer) 4. Some infringement that may exist in the architecture of Capsuleer specifically. Bundling a CCP-provided DB with the app that may have certain licenses, for example. (very likely) 5. The use of trademarks owned by CCP that may lead a reasonable consumer to believe Capsuleer is a CCP product (good claim here if CCP wanted to pursue it.)
I mostly agree but: 1. I don't know why they would do this unless they're trying to pull some sort of 'power play'. I may be uncharitable, but I don't see that happening either. 2. This is very unlikely, given that the Capsuleer devs are the ones chasing down CCP devs trying to get a response. They even specifically stated that CCP simply isn't moving. 3. I don't see why *me* understanding anything would cause them to pull the app? Can you elaborate a bit on that? 4. I don't see why it's likely that CCP gave them any CCP owned code? 5. It's probably the fear of this which is keeping them from monetizing it IMO.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
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SRSLYOMG
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Posted - 2010.10.06 00:20:00 -
[177]
Edited by: SRSLYOMG on 06/10/2010 00:21:17 nm
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ToJoBo
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Posted - 2010.10.06 00:24:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: ToJoBo
I think the whole thing is either:
1. Smoke and mirrors by the Capsuleer team (doubtful, but something is strange) 2. CCP acting as a bully and the Capsuleer team not having an IP lawyer on retainer (likely) 3. The use not being understood on a technical level (more likely with the end user than CCP or Capsuleer) 4. Some infringement that may exist in the architecture of Capsuleer specifically. Bundling a CCP-provided DB with the app that may have certain licenses, for example. (very likely) 5. The use of trademarks owned by CCP that may lead a reasonable consumer to believe Capsuleer is a CCP product (good claim here if CCP wanted to pursue it.)
I mostly agree but: 1. I don't know why they would do this unless they're trying to pull some sort of 'power play'. I may be uncharitable, but I don't see that happening either. 2. This is very unlikely, given that the Capsuleer devs are the ones chasing down CCP devs trying to get a response. They even specifically stated that CCP simply isn't moving. 3. I don't see why *me* understanding anything would cause them to pull the app? Can you elaborate a bit on that? 4. I don't see why it's likely that CCP gave them any CCP owned code? 5. It's probably the fear of this which is keeping them from monetizing it IMO.
-Liang
Liang - on #3 - I meant something like, "If the Capsuleer devs don't understand the distinction between bundling IP and creating a conduit for content over HTTP that in no way bypasses authentication or misrepresents the nature of said content, its origins, or its ownership" then gave the caveat that this isn't really likely given how smart the Capsuleer guys (and CCP lawyers) are. Just making the point that to a layman, the inner workings of the app and line between the API responses being rendered vs distributed may be blurry.
My general assumption is that Capsuleer has some solid fair use grounds, but also has some very sticky details, like bundling CCP-owned data with the app and using CCP marks and generally being consistent enough with the Eve brand that reasonable consumers may be confused as to the origins of the app (I was for a while!)
It's never a slam dunk, given that judges rarely know their tech inside and out, but one thing still swings in favor of Capsuleer: users submit their credentials (id and API key) and the app acts on their behalf as a simple browser. If they initiate a request directly from their device to the CCP servers, using their own account credentials, I think the browser wars of the 90's set enough precedents that Capsuleer is safe.
If Capsuleer is twisting that data around on its own servers, they may have something to remedy. Though I think there are still angles to play there.
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Ix Forres
Caldari Righteous Chaps
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Posted - 2010.10.06 00:31:00 -
[179]
Edited by: Ix Forres on 06/10/2010 00:35:43
Originally by: Niraia
Originally by: Ix Forres
Originally by: Niraia Writing free software while you starve to death is common sense? Wouldn't it make more sense to just release later so you can eat? That's necessity. This is bull****.
Uh, read my post? Common sense is to _not_ write your free app which takes up all your time, or to try and do it in conjunction with a paying job and the rest of your life. For some of us, that's not a viable option - there are other things that take priority.
I agree, but they did it anyway, and now they seem to be all whiney about not making money, pulling the app rather than leaving it in its current state. Why didn't this guy continue development at a slower pace to fit in with the rest of his life? If he didn't have any spare time, why not release the source and let others with more time keep it alive? It comes across as selfish and childish, thus my greed comment.
Ah - I see where you're coming from. There are, however, some other reasons - as I understand it, open source and the app store are like oil and water. There's also the main expense from Sam's POV which is that Capsuleer is not an API reader, so much as an API receiver - it works mainly using push notifications from a server which they operate.
To migrate that push server would require Capsuleer to be modified and resubmitted to the app store etc, accounts to be re-added by users (since the push server would have to be a clean copy - moving API keys in the thousands between owners isn't something you'd want to do) and so on. It's a lot of work - probably as much as would be entailed in just continuing to maintain it for another few months. Even just publishing source would take a lot of work - you'd have to document what isn't documented, clean things up, probably finish features that were in-development. Doesn't make sense. It may come across as selfish and childish but there's perfectly good reasons why they're not doing what you've suggested outside of greed.
Originally by: Professor Garvey It's not CCP's decision to pull the app from the itunes store. You can leave free apps in the store forever if you want to. The developers have other reasons for pulling the app.
I'll give you guys a hint, it starts with 't' and rhymes with 'hry to use the court of public opinion for force CCP to give us money'.
See my above statement - running the push notification server which Capsuleer requires is an active monthly cost. Leave the app there forever and you have to run the server forever, with a cost over the year probably in the ú1000 ballpark. Taking the app down is preferable to leaving a half-broken app there with their name on it. -- Ix Forres - 3rd Party Application Developer - EVE Metrics - accVIEW
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Damassys Kadesh
Amarr Eternal Damnation of the Woken Mind
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 00:32:00 -
[180]
I use Capsuleer every day! I was very much displeased to hear this news. If anything can be done to keep it going, I'm all for it!
silentbob17 on xFire Hit-Or-Miss <--- Check this out |
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whiskey101
Gallente Dark Region
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 00:51:00 -
[181]
i have a android device, and i'd love to see this ported over to us, sorry to hear about this news. GODSPEED.
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Compleat Bacon
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 02:30:00 -
[182]
Sad to see this happen. Yet another sign that Eve has peaked and is on the downward slope. (Sure, subscribers are still going up, but if you haven't studied software trends for the last 30 years, then stfu. The signs are all there. And if the message hurts your fanboi feelings, well, enough said.)
As far as I see, Pyjama and Roc are making the correct decision. Hard choices are never easy, and I hope the best for your future endeavors.
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Stick Cult
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 02:32:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Compleat Bacon Sad to see this happen. Yet another sign that Eve has peaked and is on the downward slope.
wat.
Literally, I can be a bit fanboi at times, but this statement is just stupid.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
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Brannor McThife
Caldari Lambent Enterprises Black Core Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 03:11:00 -
[184]
Edited by: Brannor McThife on 06/10/2010 03:14:42 Why can't the hosting of the server related stuff be moved to one of the other great tools' sites? Have you guys spoken to Chribba about him hosting it?
Sure, stop development, but leave it up and running for someone else to keep active. As much as I understand all the effort you've put in, and how your dreams have been "crushed" by CCP not responding... don't punish the rest of us.
Hell, I'd be willing to learn the Apple coding system (10+ years of commercial development in Java, etc.) and I'd take over and do the upgrade to the new API and give it away free (well, ISK donations like the others of course, spare Veldspar for Chribba).
Please Roc, PyjamaSam, let one of us pick up the batton.
-G
Edit: Eeek! I spelt Chribba wrong! *cowers* PS. I might just start teaching myself iPhone stuff now because of this...write my own "Capsuleer"-type app.
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Lecherito
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 03:15:00 -
[185]
Originally by: ToJoBo Edited by: ToJoBo on 06/10/2010 00:09:49 Edited by: ToJoBo on 05/10/2010 23:58:01 I'll check with my IP lawyer when I next speak to him, but AFAIK, as long as no unattributed trademarks are used or any non-public information shown, there's no IP conflict.
Essentially, Capsuleer is just another HTTP user agent. It happens to understand a specific XML format and transform the results in a way that is different than how other browsers transform that XML, but unless Opera or Firefox is causing a conflict, the API use of Capsuleer is no different.
Now, I think Capsuleer does aggressive transformations with their own servers (acting as middleware), so there could be some (frivolous) claims against "republishing" or "derivative" information if they aren't acting as a simple, "dumb" HTTP cache. Still, ultimately, the app sends some HTTP requests and parses the results, showing them as something other than plain text. Plenty of precedents with browsers showing that such use is fair. Capsuleer is a specialized browser at its core.
I think the whole thing is either:
1. Smoke and mirrors by the Capsuleer team (doubtful, but something is strange) 2. CCP acting as a bully and the Capsuleer team not having an IP lawyer on retainer (likely) 3. The use not being understood on a technical level (more likely with the end user than CCP or Capsuleer) 4. Some infringement that may exist in the architecture of Capsuleer specifically. Bundling a CCP-provided DB with the app that may have certain licenses, for example. (very likely) 5. The use of trademarks owned by CCP that may lead a reasonable consumer to believe Capsuleer is a CCP product (good claim here if CCP wanted to pursue it.)
Ultimately, embedding a WebView in an app that shows raw API result calls would be considered a (very limited) browser. Decorating those results with art NOT owned by CCP should fall within the same fair use.
Again - IANAL but I have been neck deep in this type of thing lately.
I also have to admit that, though I've read the "Website terms of service" for eveonline.com, I've not seen a license for the API yet (aside from the fansite agreement for websites and radio stations) - so there could be very, very specific prohibitions I've not yet found. The "Website" TOS forbids linking from anywhere but another site's "homepage" - seemingly an incredibly antiquated, useless, boilerplate TOS that wouldn't stand in a US court, given prior precedents.
I'll dig into an API license when I can find it.
There is an IP issue. A fatal one.
-L
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Typhado3
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 03:16:00 -
[186]
Edited by: Typhado3 on 06/10/2010 03:25:30
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Roc Wieler
CCP was gracious enough to fly Chris and Marcus to Iceland for Fanfest, to discuss business opportunities between CCP and Capsuleer. CCP expressed their genuine excitement and interest in working with Marcus and Chris in some capacity, and committed to internal research to see what could be done to accommodate a business relationship.
...
A subscription based platform for full API functionality was proposed to CCP to monetize Capsuleer, while keeping limited API features free for all users.
This reads to me like the Capsuleer devs asked CCP for tiered/subscription based API access for devs with a business relationship with CCP. This would imply that some apps/developers had preferential treatment from CCP and had access to more/better data than everyone else with free apps. Roc, can you clarify this a bit?
-Liang
good catch....
Hope to god Liangs not right for once. ------------------------------ God is an afk cloaker |
Siiee
Recycled Heroes
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 03:35:00 -
[187]
That's not how I read it. Sounds just like a simple tier system to me. You put in your limited key and it works in free mode. You put in your full API and it requires you to pay to get at your assets and orders etc.
The pay gate is in the app, the API doesn't change at all.
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Forlani Tristania
Gallente Feral Tendency
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 04:25:00 -
[188]
Well, I have Capsuleer on my iPad, Aura on my EVO Android phone, and EveMon on my computers. I liked each of them for what they were, but I have to agree with others here that Capsuleer seemed "feature light" when compared to the others.
I'm assuming that their 6 hours a day on Capsuleer was spent on refinements due to patches and future development in the hopes that CCP OK'd a business licences? Whatever the case, there is another choice that I learned about here: iClone. It's now installed on the iPad, and I have to say that I like it. Not as pretty as Capsuleer, but if I want pretty I can go to **** sites
Condolences to the Capsuleer devs, but some business plans crash and burn.
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Tifforsia
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 04:44:00 -
[189]
Here guys I wrote something that works with the browser that comes on you phone. Capsuleer 2.0
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Anulla Bequin
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 06:35:00 -
[190]
Thanks, Roc and PyjamaSam for all the work you put into Capsuleer. It was a great app and a pleasure to use. Best of luck in your future endeavors.
Fly Safe.
|
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Rumple Fourskin
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 06:40:00 -
[191]
this is horrible news... CCP make it happen.
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Caelum Dominus
Genos Occidere
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 07:09:00 -
[192]
Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 06/10/2010 07:11:36
Originally by: Ix Forres People like me used to do this stuff for fun but the reality is, spending 12 hours a day on a free app does not enable you to buy food, pay your rent, and so on. That is not greed; that is necessity and basic financial common sense.
Are you saying that you spent 12 hours a day developing EVE Metrics?
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Cupio Mortem
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 07:10:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Rumple Fourskin this is horrible news... CCP make it happen.
You want CCP to make horrible news happen? ...I think I see your point.
|
Lemid
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 07:12:00 -
[194]
Guess I'll have to start using a standard Rss reader for all those blogs I'm now hooked on :'( |
Talonaer
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 07:27:00 -
[195]
As above.
anyone know one that will work on the iphone? THen can use iclone for skills and a feeder for the lovely blogs
A sad sad sad sad day
Just make it into a paid app guys. ú2 a pop should see you by!
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ChrisIsherwood
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 08:06:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Krispy Dingo
And this is one I have often wondered myself, what good does it really do you to monitor your accounts on your iPhone? I have the ability to VNC into my home PC from anywhere, launch EVE, and update queues, but I know not everyone can do that. Just a random question, reallyà
Let me go over some user cases where Capsuleer is clearly superior.
1) Speed. If I say I wonder if I need to train today or tomorrow, I can go from a powered off device to knowing the answer in under 5 seconds. On my computer, it approaches 30 seconds from clicking on icon to being able to get the information. I suspect your through in VNC and cell networks and the number goes up.
2) Multi-account - this is huge for me!!!! You can see what needs to be trained for 3 accounts in the same time as 1. Where as it would be two minutes to check three different queues using the client.
3) Push. From my turned off iPhone and iPad I hear a voice say "skill queue low" when there is less than 24 hours remaining. No EVE Gate "mobile web friendly" page can do that
-------
Here is what I think, could be wrong, which seems to be different than some of the posters.
a) I interpreted that the capsuleer team think there is some intellectual property issues with just telling Apple this ap now cost .99 or 4.99 or whatever. I.e. charging for it is not feasible or they would have tried that before pulling the plug. I also interpreted that they thought that if two other people wrote a similar ap for Android or iPhone/iPad/iTouch that they would encounter these legal issues.
b) capsuleer consists of a web server as well as the ap. So even if the ap were left around for free; or it was open-sourced, it would still not be usable since they will no longer be paying for the server.
---
I hope that CCP was just being weasels and they have a competing offering with at least as many features that they plan to release. My fear is that they don't have an iOS solution ready to release "soon."
|
Blasphemour
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 08:37:00 -
[197]
This thread still going? Get over it guys, Capsuleer is gone in a few weeks, use another application. The writers had different motives, it's not a fan project, it was born out of greed. Yes, they have to pay for server upkeep, but they decided to make it a client/server application, nobody told them to do it. Other applications work fine without a server backing it.
Oh and about the speed blabber, I use Aura. I have a widget that tells me exactly how far along my training is, in UNDER 5 seconds. If I want to read blogs, I'll open my browser. Capsuleer isn't unique, it's just polished and bundled. Want to bet that there are already people who are working on a similar application that will be seeded to the iTunes store soon?
|
Kerum Vardall
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 11:11:00 -
[198]
Once again an ambitious team of developers with great ideas and an unhealthy amount of dedication got burnt out. Once again a unique asset to the world of Eve falls victim to its own magnitude. ...and once again, there are people flaming them for not further progressing a futile course.
Regular users and fans of Capsuleer can't help but be truly outraged about some of this thread's content.
They talk about greed, so I guess your computers run on solar energy and bits of love? And your webservice is free of charge, too? Including the bandwidth caused by 60,000 users? And of course your iOS developer account for the Apple iStore also came for free? You seriously demand a most generous (as costly) contribution to be continued even beyond the point of being financially unbearable? ... while calling them greedy??
I wonder how many of these flamers and trolls ever developed and published a complex software. I wonder how many of them use projects like Capsuleer, EveMON, EFT, Aura and/or iClone on a daily basis and just take it for granted. I wonder how many of them secretly sneer upon developers dumb enough to sacrifice their precious free time to the Eve community.
All you trolls and flamers out there, you need to earn the right to look down on any of these great contributors!
Try it yourself! Experience the pain yourself, and get yourself bashed up over your work! Open your wallet and pay for your own contribution! See the bills pile up and watch your own money getting burnt by idealistic generosity!
Then, and only then, you may sneer upon other peoples' hard work.
But until then ... please refrain from using a keyboard on this thread, mkay?
To PyjamaSam and Roc Wieler: You've made a lot of us happy while it lasted. Therefore, my heartfelt gratitude goes to you. Good luck on your future projects.
|
Blasphemour
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 13:11:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Kerum Vardall Once again an ambitious team of developers with great ideas and an unhealthy amount of dedication got burnt out. Once again a unique asset to the world of Eve falls victim to its own magnitude. ...and once again, there are people flaming them for not further progressing a futile course.
Regular users and fans of Capsuleer can't help but be truly outraged about some of this thread's content.
They talk about greed, so I guess your computers run on solar energy and bits of love?
Who told them to make this program?
Quote:
And your webservice is free of charge, too? Including the bandwidth caused by 60,000 users?
Who told them to make this program?
Quote:
And of course your iOS developer account for the Apple iStore also came for free?
Who told them to make this program?
Quote:
You seriously demand a most generous (as costly) contribution to be continued even beyond the point of being financially unbearable? ... while calling them greedy??
No one demands them to continue. As no one has demanded them to make Capsuleer in the first place.
Quote:
I wonder how many of these flamers and trolls ever developed and published a complex software.
I have not published myself but in the past I have contributed on many programs that have been published, all free and GPL.
Quote:
I wonder how many of them use projects like Capsuleer, EveMON, EFT, Aura and/or iClone on a daily basis and just take it for granted. I wonder how many of them secretly sneer upon developers dumb enough to sacrifice their precious free time to the Eve community.
I am gratefull there are people that have the time to work on programs like Aura and such. I am also gratefull they decide to publish their efforts, as they are handy tools.
Quote:
All you trolls and flamers out there, you need to earn the right to look down on any of these great contributors!
I do not look down on anyone who creates great and usefull software. I look down on unreasonable people who want to get something from someone who has not asked them to do anything.
Quote:
Try it yourself! Experience the pain yourself, and get yourself bashed up over your work! Open your wallet and pay for your own contribution! See the bills pile up and watch your own money getting burnt by idealistic generosity!
They did not get bashed up untill they made clear what their motives where, which are getting payed for someone elses IP. And there is in no way any idealistic generosity here. They made an application which functions, completely different than all the others that are available, only with the use of a server that they run themselves. So they created a program that has an upkeep cost, without checking first if they can get anything in return for it. That's the wrong way around. With that, they want to charge users for access to a system that they did not create themselves (the EVE API) but has been given to them, free of charge. They only built a cure little interface around it so people can check the data it exports in a nice polished environment. Just like a whole bunch of other developers have done.
Quote:
Then, and only then, you may sneer upon other peoples' hard work.
But until then ... please refrain from using a keyboard on this thread, mkay?
There is no sneering upon their work, their is sneering upon their motives and finger pointing.
Quote:
To PyjamaSam and Roc Wieler: You've made a lot of us happy while it lasted. Therefore, my heartfelt gratitude goes to you. Good luck on your future projects.
And this is the only reply that you should've typed. They made a great program, they did their best, but can't handle the upkeep cost without support, that they cannot get. Shame, but it's not the end of the world.
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TGO
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 15:44:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Blasphemour So they created a program that has an upkeep cost, without checking first if they can get anything in return for it. That's the wrong way around.
Even this is pretty shaky. If they asked for help with establishing and maintaining a server at no cost to them i've little doubt they would recieve it. There are enough people who are hosting more demanding tools that would love the extra exposure (battleclinic comes to mind) And push notifications were painstakingly designed to be as lightweight as possible, so the 60K number is less impressive than it sounds from a pure resource stand point.
The bottom line is they built a program that at some point they decided was too good to give away for free. Despite he fact it only exists to slightly extend the capabilities of someone else's product and community. Despite the fact that there are many other projects incurring greater resource cost that make money solely from advertising / donations /plex purchases. And they're going to use the excuse that at some point CCP liked the application enough to express interest in working with them in some capacity, to play the victim and take off the market even features that have no hosting cost.
Again, i don't dispute they have the right to discontinue the app, it's just distasteful and petty the way they did it, and disturbing that some members of the community actually sympathize with them.
|
|
Trion Roles
B4D W0LF Legiunea ROmana
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 16:07:00 -
[201]
I love the app--very sorry it is going away, although it will help my productivity at work. Your farewell does not appear to be an indictment of CCP.
I have no problems with your desire to earn rewards for your efforts.
If EveGate aka Spacebook is CCP's plan going forward, they will need native apps for iOS and Droid mobile devices. You proved the market is there.
Thank you for your hard work on Capsuleer. I am sure your next product will be equally successful. Good luck.
|
Tifforsia
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 17:20:00 -
[202]
Originally by: ChrisIsherwood
Originally by: Krispy Dingo
And this is one I have often wondered myself, what good does it really do you to monitor your accounts on your iPhone? I have the ability to VNC into my home PC from anywhere, launch EVE, and update queues, but I know not everyone can do that. Just a random question, reallyà
Let me go over some user cases where Capsuleer is clearly superior.
1) Speed. If I say I wonder if I need to train today or tomorrow, I can go from a powered off device to knowing the answer in under 5 seconds. On my computer, it approaches 30 seconds from clicking on icon to being able to get the information. I suspect your through in VNC and cell networks and the number goes up.
2) Multi-account - this is huge for me!!!! You can see what needs to be trained for 3 accounts in the same time as 1. Where as it would be two minutes to check three different queues using the client.
3) Push. From my turned off iPhone and iPad I hear a voice say "skill queue low" when there is less than 24 hours remaining. No EVE Gate "mobile web friendly" page can do that
-------
Here is what I think, could be wrong, which seems to be different than some of the posters.
a) I interpreted that the capsuleer team think there is some intellectual property issues with just telling Apple this ap now cost .99 or 4.99 or whatever. I.e. charging for it is not feasible or they would have tried that before pulling the plug. I also interpreted that they thought that if two other people wrote a similar ap for Android or iPhone/iPad/iTouch that they would encounter these legal issues.
b) capsuleer consists of a web server as well as the ap. So even if the ap were left around for free; or it was open-sourced, it would still not be usable since they will no longer be paying for the server.
---
I hope that CCP was just being weasels and they have a competing offering with at least as many features that they plan to release. My fear is that they don't have an iOS solution ready to release "soon."
Do you know what EVEMon is?
|
Lateris
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 17:28:00 -
[203]
What apps are now available for Eve on the iPhone?
|
ToJoBo
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 17:38:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Lecherito
Originally by: ToJoBo Edited by: ToJoBo on 06/10/2010 00:09:49 Edited by: ToJoBo on 05/10/2010 23:58:01 I'll check with my IP lawyer when I next speak to him, but AFAIK, as long as no unattributed trademarks are used or any non-public information shown, there's no IP conflict.
Essentially, Capsuleer is just another HTTP user agent. It happens to understand a specific XML format and transform the results in a way that is different than how other browsers transform that XML, but unless Opera or Firefox is causing a conflict, the API use of Capsuleer is no different.
Now, I think Capsuleer does aggressive transformations with their own servers (acting as middleware), so there could be some (frivolous) claims against "republishing" or "derivative" information if they aren't acting as a simple, "dumb" HTTP cache. Still, ultimately, the app sends some HTTP requests and parses the results, showing them as something other than plain text. Plenty of precedents with browsers showing that such use is fair. Capsuleer is a specialized browser at its core.
I think the whole thing is either:
1. Smoke and mirrors by the Capsuleer team (doubtful, but something is strange) 2. CCP acting as a bully and the Capsuleer team not having an IP lawyer on retainer (likely) 3. The use not being understood on a technical level (more likely with the end user than CCP or Capsuleer) 4. Some infringement that may exist in the architecture of Capsuleer specifically. Bundling a CCP-provided DB with the app that may have certain licenses, for example. (very likely) 5. The use of trademarks owned by CCP that may lead a reasonable consumer to believe Capsuleer is a CCP product (good claim here if CCP wanted to pursue it.)
Ultimately, embedding a WebView in an app that shows raw API result calls would be considered a (very limited) browser. Decorating those results with art NOT owned by CCP should fall within the same fair use.
Again - IANAL but I have been neck deep in this type of thing lately.
I also have to admit that, though I've read the "Website terms of service" for eveonline.com, I've not seen a license for the API yet (aside from the fansite agreement for websites and radio stations) - so there could be very, very specific prohibitions I've not yet found. The "Website" TOS forbids linking from anywhere but another site's "homepage" - seemingly an incredibly antiquated, useless, boilerplate TOS that wouldn't stand in a US court, given prior precedents.
I'll dig into an API license when I can find it.
There is an IP issue. A fatal one.
-L
Elaborate?
|
Kile Kitmoore
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 19:33:00 -
[205]
Quote: "CCP was gracious enough to fly Chris and Marcus to Iceland for Fanfest, to discuss business opportunities between CCP and Capsuleer."
"And true to their word, a business meeting did occur."
This should not have happened, huge error on CCP's part. Whoever setup that meeting and IF they built-up false hope of a business partnership they definitely need to be taken out to the woodshed. This is made worse by the fact they couldn't be professional enough communicate that a partnership would not be possible. This is where CCP's faults start and end, taking a meeting that should not have happened, possibly making promises and not being professional enough to communicate the outcome. The end.
I donÆt use your application but at any point did you inform your users that your purpose was to monetize your efforts? Did your users know that before they downloaded it? Was it always your intent to build a customer base then use this base to exert pressure on CCP if they did not comply with some formal partnership? If not, why put the application out to the public? Why didn't you just prototype (limiting your investment exposure) this application and sell to CCP under some formal contract? You built an application and completely pinned it's future on whether CCP would formalize some arrangement and did not have an alternative means to fund it?
Again, I don't use your application but I can appreciate the work you apparently invested. Honestly, the ONLY thing I hope is that you get a letter informing you that a business relationship can not be formalized and your users don't trouble CCP with a single petition on your behalf.
Did you for one single moment consider the ramifications of the ENTIRE 3rd party development community if such a relationship materialized? Some of those folks deserve to be flown on a private jet filled with hookers and booze to Iceland putting aside financial arrangements for their efforts. You can honestly say that your application/efforts are more deserving? Meeting with CCP and a free trip to Iceland, take your win and walk.
Roc, you are a well respected member of the EVE community. I have only one request, beg a mod to take down your post. Any further communication between CCP and yourself should remain private and professional. Good luck, live and learn.
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Roc Wieler
Masuat'aa Matari
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 20:18:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Kile Kitmoore Roc, you are a well respected member of the EVE community. I have only one request, beg a mod to take down your post. Any further communication between CCP and yourself should remain private and professional. Good luck, live and learn.
Thanks for the comments.
Any further communications on this topic will be between myself, PyjamaSam, and Capsuleer. The intention here was to inform our users that the product offering was ending, nothing more.
Fly safe.
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Junko Sideswipe
Haters Gonna Hate
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 20:26:00 -
[207]
Nobody used this app, pretty useless.
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Szcwczuc
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 20:27:00 -
[208]
this app was usless anyway
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Mavrick2k10
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 20:29:00 -
[209]
why don't you go cry somewhere where people might care......oh wait
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Nivekz
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 20:30:00 -
[210]
That's cool no one uses I phones
|
|
Szcwczuc
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 20:31:00 -
[211]
A+++ would read **** post again
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Kile Kitmoore
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 20:46:00 -
[212]
Originally by: Roc Wieler
Originally by: Kile Kitmoore Roc, you are a well respected member of the EVE community. I have only one request, beg a mod to take down your post. Any further communication between CCP and yourself should remain private and professional. Good luck, live and learn.
Thanks for the comments.
Any further communications on this topic will be between myself, PyjamaSam, and Capsuleer. The intention here was to inform our users that the product offering was ending, nothing more.
Fly safe.
Quote: Perhaps the players will petition CCP to give us the business license we seek.
You sure about that?
|
Krispy Dingo
Minmatar Strangers in a Strange Land
|
Posted - 2010.10.06 21:09:00 -
[213]
Originally by: ChrisIsherwood
Originally by: Krispy Dingo
And this is one I have often wondered myself, what good does it really do you to monitor your accounts on your iPhone? I have the ability to VNC into my home PC from anywhere, launch EVE, and update queues, but I know not everyone can do that. Just a random question, reallyà
Let me go over some user cases where Capsuleer is clearly superior.
1) Speed. If I say I wonder if I need to train today or tomorrow, I can go from a powered off device to knowing the answer in under 5 seconds. On my computer, it approaches 30 seconds from clicking on icon to being able to get the information. I suspect your through in VNC and cell networks and the number goes up.
2) Multi-account - this is huge for me!!!! You can see what needs to be trained for 3 accounts in the same time as 1. Where as it would be two minutes to check three different queues using the client.
3) Push. From my turned off iPhone and iPad I hear a voice say "skill queue low" when there is less than 24 hours remaining. No EVE Gate "mobile web friendly" page can do that
reread that bullet point, meho. i never said anything about checking on my characters, i said update my training queues. if you have a way to do that within Capsuleer, please tell me how, because I have never seen it.
What I was driving at was that ou have your iPhone with you, you are at the local bar (deleted for obvious meanness) when Capsuleer says skill queue low. ZOMFFSM! I have less than 24 hours in my skill queue in EVE! I can't do a damn thing about it either! Where is the actual need to have a monitoring device on something that you cannot even run EVE on?
Also, I NEVER mentioned an EVE Gate mobile friendly. Pleas read the post before your comment on what I say, k?
As for "seeing what needs to be trained" you could not see what you needed to train short of digging into the skills and searching for what you were shooting for.
Oh, and here is a nice one, too. So, you need to monitor when your skills are ending. You install EVEMon. You turn on the external calendar and point it to your google calendar. You set up your google calendar on your iPhone. NOW you can get notifications of when your skills end clear down to 15min before hand!! WOWEEZOWEE the miracles of technology.
It was a good app that, quite frankly, had not been updated in a long time. Some small update pushes instead of waiting for the whole shebang would have been nice, but it never happened, and now never will.
Go get iClone, its a good app. _____________________________ http://twitter.com/krispy_dingo http://krispydingo.com |
Devoyd
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.10.06 21:23:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Krispy Dingo
Originally by: ChrisIsherwood
Originally by: Krispy Dingo
And this is one I have often wondered myself, what good does it really do you to monitor your accounts on your iPhone? I have the ability to VNC into my home PC from anywhere, launch EVE, and update queues, but I know not everyone can do that. Just a random question, reallyà
Let me go over some user cases where Capsuleer is clearly superior.
1) Speed. If I say I wonder if I need to train today or tomorrow, I can go from a powered off device to knowing the answer in under 5 seconds. On my computer, it approaches 30 seconds from clicking on icon to being able to get the information. I suspect your through in VNC and cell networks and the number goes up.
2) Multi-account - this is huge for me!!!! You can see what needs to be trained for 3 accounts in the same time as 1. Where as it would be two minutes to check three different queues using the client.
3) Push. From my turned off iPhone and iPad I hear a voice say "skill queue low" when there is less than 24 hours remaining. No EVE Gate "mobile web friendly" page can do that
reread that bullet point, meho. i never said anything about checking on my characters, i said update my training queues. if you have a way to do that within Capsuleer, please tell me how, because I have never seen it.
What I was driving at was that ou have your iPhone with you, you are at the local bar (deleted for obvious meanness) when Capsuleer says skill queue low. ZOMFFSM! I have less than 24 hours in my skill queue in EVE! I can't do a damn thing about it either! Where is the actual need to have a monitoring device on something that you cannot even run EVE on?
Also, I NEVER mentioned an EVE Gate mobile friendly. Pleas read the post before your comment on what I say, k?
As for "seeing what needs to be trained" you could not see what you needed to train short of digging into the skills and searching for what you were shooting for.
Oh, and here is a nice one, too. So, you need to monitor when your skills are ending. You install EVEMon. You turn on the external calendar and point it to your google calendar. You set up your google calendar on your iPhone. NOW you can get notifications of when your skills end clear down to 15min before hand!! WOWEEZOWEE the miracles of technology.
It was a good app that, quite frankly, had not been updated in a long time. Some small update pushes instead of waiting for the whole shebang would have been nice, but it never happened, and now never will.
Go get iClone, its a good app.
iClone blows. Too bulky, too slow.
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Autumn Equinox
Cloak and Daggers -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2010.10.06 21:41:00 -
[215]
Capsuleer is my number 1 i-phone application, and the main reason I upgraded from an i-touch to an i-phone.
I do not want to get involved in any licence mumbo jumbo, but if it was on the itunes store for ú5, I would purchase it.
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Krispy Dingo
Minmatar Strangers in a Strange Land
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Posted - 2010.10.06 22:28:00 -
[216]
Edited by: Krispy Dingo on 06/10/2010 22:29:47
Originally by: Devoyd iClone blows. Too bulky, too slow.
I used to feel that way, but anymore I actually find myself using all the features in it. If you could just update certain items on demand, it would be better. Also, it now has multitasking support, which is really nice. _____________________________ http://twitter.com/krispy_dingo http://krispydingo.com |
cinbar
Helen Burn Corp Noobswarm.
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Posted - 2010.10.06 23:39:00 -
[217]
Capsuleer is the first app I open every day to see Eve headlines and track my character. I will actually be less motivated in playing Eve due to the lack of easy access to news and character tracking in a mobile platform for iPhone.
Whatever it takes....someone needs to come up with a solution to keeping Capsuleer alive. CCP, Pay for the app, Much more sponsors, whatever...
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.10.07 00:16:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Roc Wieler A subscription based platform for full API functionality was proposed to CCP to monetize Capsuleer, while keeping limited API features free for all users. Many new and robust features not to do with the EVE Online API were also in development.
Surely all that's needed from CCP is a licence to use their API for commercial purposes, then head off to the App Store/Android Market with a dollar value attached to the application or the subscription content?
CCP is in the business of licencing their IP, they've done it for the complete game (i.e.: to support the Chinese company running the game).
Perhaps the Capsuleer folks could head over to the Assembly Hall and write up exactly what it is they're after? Is it a commercial-use licence for the EVE API and certain EVE Online art?
Surely the best way to approach this is not to sell out to CCP as much as simply organising a commercial-use licence?
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Zifrian
Solstice Equilibrium Erebus Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.07 00:48:00 -
[219]
Bah, just started using this. Great app. Really fast, and I liked getting the news feeds/dev blog on it.
Sad to see it go. It had tons of potential.
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Silence iKillYouu
Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2010.10.07 01:34:00 -
[220]
SAVE CAPSULEER!!!
I must use it about 100 times a day.
Roc ignore the trolls mate ppl gotta hate
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Chun Muzack
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Posted - 2010.10.07 03:15:00 -
[221]
*wants an EveMon app now*
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Raceleader
Minmatar Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2010.10.07 13:52:00 -
[222]
Capsuleer is a must have to every new eden pilot.
You can count on me for buying the software if it stays alive.
SAVE CAPSULEER !!!!
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ChrisIsherwood
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Posted - 2010.10.07 22:36:00 -
[223]
Edited by: ChrisIsherwood on 07/10/2010 22:37:25
Originally by: Krispy Dingo
It was a good app that, quite frankly, had not been updated in a long time. Some small update pushes instead of waiting for the whole shebang would have been nice, but it never happened, and now never will.
agreed
Originally by: Krispy Dingo
What I was driving at was that ou have your iPhone with you, you are at the local bar (deleted for obvious meanness) when Capsuleer says skill queue low. ZOMFFSM! I have less than 24 hours in my skill queue in EVE! I can't do a damn thing about it either! Where is the actual need to have a monitoring device on something that you cannot even run EVE on?
??? Some people put PostIt notes on their refrigerator to take the car in to be serviced tomorrow even though they can't take it in tonight. Nor can they use the PostIt note to drive for that matter. I enjoyed having a reminder that sometime in the next day I needed to log on the computer that has EVE on it and log on the right account. In your example, I want to see when I get home from the bar do I even need to even turn on my pc, let alone log into EVE, and **** around with a skill queue.
Originally by: Krispy Dingo
Oh, and here is a nice one, too. So, you need to monitor when your skills are ending. You install EVEMon. You turn on the external calendar and point it to your google calendar. You set up your google calendar on your iPhone. NOW you can get notifications of when your skills end clear down to 15min before hand!! WOWEEZOWEE the miracles of technology.
So I need to 1) install EVEMon. 2) get a Google account, 3) install some beta software (Google Sync) to sync a calendar that will only have EVEMon skill notices in it 4) I still do not see what piece is doing the push? I am sitting on the couch with my iPhone off. Currently, at the appropriate time, the phone wakes up and capsuleer plays a voice saying "skill queue low". What is the software that wakes the iPhone to ding that my google calendar entry is ready? ( It probably is doable but I currently do not know how to do it. )
And isn't there now a hidden sync requirement in this? EVEMon publishes a calendar. Subsequently, I update a skill using the legacy EVE client. Now my iPhone has worse than no information in it, it has wrong information. In your example, I would need to drive home form the bar, run EVEMon to get the new API information, republish the google calendar and then I could drive back to the bar and check on my skills on the iPhone. (I am probably wrong by now but I am worried about the EVEMon->google->iPhone chain being able to deal with editing previous entries when my EVE skills are changed. My experiences several years ago with writing server software to generate calendar entires was that it was much more reliable to add something to an electronic calendar than it is to reliably edit a previously published entry. There wasn't a convenient unique key to find the entry to edit/delete.)
But certainly life will go on if I no longer use Capuleer or EVE for that matter. And simplifying my life by getting rid of some alt accounts will mitigate this loss and save me some money. And there are alternatives, including this thing called "paper" that I hear a few Luddites :-) use.
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Kenney Blair
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Posted - 2010.10.08 01:30:00 -
[224]
Save capsuleer! How dare ccp pod suck a great app for the iPhone. I would gladly pay for this app if ask. Ccp the capsuleer is a most have and you can't let it die!
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Chuck Sands
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Posted - 2010.10.08 03:11:00 -
[225]
I love Capsuleer. I would really like to see CCP step in and work with these guys. I think that EVE could really use an official iOS and Android app, and these guys are without a doubt, the most qualified people for the job.
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External Factors
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Posted - 2010.10.08 08:39:00 -
[226]
My user isn't pleased
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CanIHave YourStuff
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Posted - 2010.10.08 09:03:00 -
[227]
Boo Hoo I guess sitting on your arse for 2 years not developing the app while waiting for a handout from CCP has made you butthurt enough to pull your underdeveloped crappy software. Perhaps if people genuinely liked your app they would have willingly donated for it.
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Rumple Fourskin
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Posted - 2010.10.08 19:33:00 -
[228]
Originally by: CanIHave YourStuff Boo Hoo I guess sitting on your arse for 2 years not developing the app while waiting for a handout from CCP has made you butthurt enough to pull your underdeveloped crappy software. Perhaps if people genuinely liked your app they would have willingly donated for it.
I'm guessing you dont understand that without a license they cant accept any money?
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Tifforsia
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Posted - 2010.10.08 19:44:00 -
[229]
I see it as a safety issue. It really isn't healthy to be so addicted to something so badly that you need to be connected to it 24/7/365 especially a computer game. Usually I'm against regulating people's behavior but drugs are illegal for a reason and apparently to some gutter crawling losers Capsuleer was a drug with to much eve in it. Get a prescription or htf.
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CCP Manifest
C C P
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Posted - 2010.10.08 20:10:00 -
[230]
Since the initial announcement by the talented and driven guys behind Capsuleer (you can see beginning of this thread), I'd gotten a request from Massively.com for a CCP comment. Since several internal conversations were ongoing at the time, I had to delay a bit longer than I wanted to in our response to Massively with an offical CCP "statement" (god I hate that term).
We know that you guys have been clamoring for a similar statement (Ach, again!), so I wanted to bring that to you as soon as I possibly could. This answer is just as much for those of you wondering 'what the hell' as it is for Massively's readers.
CCP Oveur, Executive Producer here at CCP, very succinctly states what we all feel as a team, with a bit of a forward glimpse.
"We're incredibly saddened to see Capsuleer leave, it's used frequently by ourselves as well as a huge portion of the playerbase and is a stellar example of the third-party applications in the EVE universe. Our internal progress with evolving the third-party landscape has had a number of complications but expect that within the year, we will have a more open application program for all third-party developers to more easily sustain and potentially monetize on their efforts for the playerbase."
You can read the Massively article here, which just went up.
I use Capsuleer every day to keep track of the skill training of my five characters, and many other CCPers do as well. Major bummer to see it go. --CCP Manifest-- |
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Gajet
Gallente Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.10.08 20:50:00 -
[231]
Update for iClone had been released. It now flies through updates and wallet works. It now blows Capsuleer out of the water in all but notifications.
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Vessper
NOVA TECH
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Posted - 2010.10.08 21:15:00 -
[232]
I'm not going to speculate over the fine details of why and how but from a commercial decision, it makes sense and from a community point of view, it sucks. I do feel sorry for the Capsuleer devs though as according to this blog published in January 2006, anyone wanting to commercialize an application based on CCP data should contact them. Almost 5 years later and it seems they still haven't got a clue how to deal with this.
I was hoping that the good coming from the closure of Capsuleer would lead it to being open source but I think it's a smart move from them to hold on to that code for the time being to see what comes from this official statement.
EveHQ Character App |
Hitori Tenchi
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Posted - 2010.10.08 21:56:00 -
[233]
Edited by: Hitori Tenchi on 08/10/2010 21:59:14 Sorry to see this happen. I was a big fan of Capsuleer for the first week I had my new iPhone. Shortly after that I found iClone. While it was slow at first it has come a very long way as far as features and usability while capsuleer remained nearly stagnant as far as features went. Sure reading different blogs was ok but other than that and checking skills they didn't do too much with the app as far as growth and development were concerned. While iClone isn't perfect it is certainly a more robust app than capsuleer. I'm not happy to see capsuleer go as I still used it for reading the blogs which I found entertaining. I just use iClone more often because I'm not always able to hook into a wireless spot when I need to know where one of my assets is or how much isk one of my characters has or which one is closer to Jita, none of these things could be done with capsuleer. I enjoyed capsuleer and it was a great app, but I won't cry about it going away unless iClone shuts down development too. You will be missed capsuleer, but there are other apps out to take your place and I'm sure someone else will fill in any percieved void you left shortly.
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Vespa Milz
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Posted - 2010.10.08 21:57:00 -
[234]
Edited by: Vespa Milz on 08/10/2010 21:59:07 CCP wont develop a new app within a year. How many times have you promised us new things / changes and never delivered? Not endorsing Capsuleer is one of the most ret.arded moves you guys could make as a company. With the amount of bugs and problems in eve right now, and the number of people leaving, the best thing you could do right now is get Capsuleer up and running. Im sure it would be a pin prick out of your financial expenses every year. Hey...even allow us to change skills through the program and you would be amazed at how many people come back.
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Zieras
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Posted - 2010.10.08 22:49:00 -
[235]
As so many others i really regret seeing thsi most usefull app disappear.
I can't help but wonder how it can be that so many EVE developers who use this app can't affect CCP to take some form of action. Either by purchasing the app code and making it an official EVE extension. Or by allowing the Capsuleer developers to monetize off the app via appstore. It really shouldn't be that hard.
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Killian Burns
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Posted - 2010.10.09 10:40:00 -
[236]
So why not release Capsuleer sources and make this app aviable for all? All we hear is "CCP is bad, dont let me make money on their intellectual property". Why EvEmon devs released their sources for free to everyone and dont ask money for their work, but iphone users have to pay for Capsuleer "or else.." Capsuleer devs dont worry about community, all they want is money. So they free to make money in another place now.
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Aera Aiana
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.10.09 14:05:00 -
[237]
Edited by: Aera Aiana on 09/10/2010 14:08:24
Originally by: Killian Burns So why not release Capsuleer sources and make this app aviable for all? All we hear is "CCP is bad, dont let me make money on their intellectual property".
They want to make money with their own IP which ties into CCPs'. They don't want to drain money from CCP, they just want money for their part of the whole. You make it sound like the capsuleer devs did nothing at all, and that's just nonsense.
Originally by: Killian Burns Why EvEmon devs released their sources for free to everyone and dont ask money for their work, but iphone users have to pay for Capsuleer "or else.."
And why would they? They spent time on it and would like to get something in return. Same goes for a lot of OS applications, but they make money by supporting the software, not by selling it. For something like capsuleer, that might be tricky. Besides, going opensource is not something you "just do". Often the code or build-chain needs to be prepared or documented to make it possible for other people to understand what's going on. If that hasn't happened, it's totally pointless to release the code.
Originally by: Killian Burns Capsuleer devs dont worry about community, all they want is money. So they free to make money in another place now.
Which is why it has been free thus far... right. Oh, and how much do YOU care about this community? What have YOU done for us? - Don't let the trolls stop you from giving a helpful reply. :) |
Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.10.09 14:08:00 -
[238]
Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 09/10/2010 14:09:27
Originally by: Aera Aiana
Originally by: Killian Burns Capsuleer devs dont worry about community, all they want is money. So they free to make money in another place now.
Which is why it has been free thus far... right.
No, it was free as they didn't have a license to charge for it.
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Mel Lifera
Gallente Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2010.10.09 19:03:00 -
[239]
Even when iClone was slow, the only thing I used Capsuleer for was the annoncements and blogroll. With all the changes iClone is suddenly making, I wonder if they can feature at least the ccp announcements.
Although I must admit I preferred Capsuleer aesthetically, the other app will pick up the slack fine, and still for free.
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Amalynn
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Posted - 2010.10.11 08:33:00 -
[240]
Here's a solution that will take a little bit of work, but is doable:
1. Replace all EVE art/sound/image/etc assets with your own. Access to the API is done at the player's behest, so if there is an API licensing issue, it is with the player running the app. 2. Sell app for as much as you like 3. ??? 4. Profit!
If you're using your own server to cache results or whatnot, just have the app cache it on the device. Though I don't think that this is an issue unless you were required to sign a contract before using the API which would preclude this usage.
I think it's a boneheaded move by CCP, but the devs are not without recourse.
Also, here's a really succinct solution:
1. Don't change a thing except display a prominent disclaimer that you are not affiliated with CCP, etc. 2. Charge for the current app now, and pray that people buy it 3. ??? 4. Profit!
There's a possibility that CCP will be stupid enough to sue you, but you can make the case that you are making "fair use" of the various assets to provide an unofficial strategy guide. It's kind of like a dead tree unofficial strategy guide needing to use screenshots of the game. Those guys didn't get permission obviously, but they don't have to legally. Also, CCP would have to go to court in the USA which wouldn't be cheap for an Icelandic based company (the lawyer fees would cost more to them than any profits made by the app), and there is a very real chance of a huge public backlash against suing your own users who are providing a very useful service. Hell, even the devs admit they use it daily. I suppose they could just short-circuit that and complain to Apple, but they still run a serious public relations risk if they do.
I'm no lawyer, so be sure to consult one if you're even considering either option.
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IQ 001
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Posted - 2010.10.11 09:38:00 -
[241]
i love capsuleer, most used program on my iphone.
@roc wieler, why not set up a paypal 'donate' button with the next app update, and bring it to the front screen every time u push an update, its not perfect but its better than nothing?
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Gajet
Gallente Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.10.11 10:34:00 -
[242]
TBH they could have given the app for free to not break any of Apples rules or tread on CCP's toes. Then charged a subscription for the push notification services. Plenty of people would have payed 59p a month for that, providing the app was developed and we got real wallet and asset services etc.
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Tallaran Kouros
Cryptonym Sleepers
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Posted - 2010.10.11 13:17:00 -
[243]
It sounds like the devs are basically spitting the dummy out now that they aren't getting their way with CCP.
I can understand their frustration but why pull the app from the app store?
That's just pure spite.
They could easily push a new and final update out that would disable notifications and the news feed yet still allow us to check up on our skill training and review the skills database.
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Amalynn
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Posted - 2010.10.12 04:56:00 -
[244]
Originally by: Gajet TBH they could have given the app for free to not break any of Apples rules or tread on CCP's toes. Then charged a subscription for the push notification services. Plenty of people would have payed 59p a month for that, providing the app was developed and we got real wallet and asset services etc.
Yep, or they could have added an in-app purchase as a way to donate. Lots of avenues for the creative developer.
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Compleat Bacon
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Posted - 2010.10.12 05:24:00 -
[245]
Edited by: Compleat Bacon on 12/10/2010 05:26:57
Originally by: CCP Manifest
We're incredibly saddened to see Capsuleer leave, it's used frequently by ourselves as well as a huge portion of the playerbase and is a stellar example of the third-party applications in the EVE universe. Our internal progress with evolving the third-party landscape has had a number of complications but expect that within the year, we will have a more open application program for all third-party developers to more easily sustain and potentially monetize on their efforts for the playerbase.
Translation: We are sad to see it go, but we will do nothing. Someday, maybe we will get our act together and do something.
So in the end, the effect is "We don't care". Because, if you did, you would do something. Follow up on original promises made, move forward, etc.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Eve/CCP has peaked, and is now on the slow glide downhill. When internal bureaucracy starts causing nothing to be done, when the committees are making the critical decisions, the slide just gets faster and faster.
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Orange Lagomorph
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Posted - 2010.10.12 05:41:00 -
[246]
All these little apps can suck it.
Until CCP allows us to change skill training without opening up the graphical client (some devices simply can't run it), I have no use for all this nonsense. I already know all of my characters' information, and I can read news blurbs at home. I don't need to look at that crap fifteen times per day, and frankly I'm happy to be away from EVE when not actively playing it.
Then again, this is the iPhonepodgadgetdroid generation, where everyone has their snout crammed into a device sixteen hours a day. My sister gets ****ed off at me because when I'm not traveling, I turn off my cell phone for months a stretch, rely on my land line, and refuse to read texts and other such nonsense.
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Brutorr
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Posted - 2010.10.12 05:46:00 -
[247]
Edited by: Brutorr on 12/10/2010 05:51:16 If I'm not mistaken, if CCP were to do any business with Capsuleer, many other programs and websites devoted to EVE would demand the same treatment.
It's wonderful that people contribute to EVE's awesomeness, but hoping that CCP will do anything formally with anything like Capsuleer is a little absurd.
With the amount of love Capsuleer is getting, I'm sure donations would be more than enough to keep Capsuleer paying for its costs.
Greed is good, but it's realm is reality.
Edit: After reading some more of Roc Weiler on this thread, it seems that since the folks at CCP did not want to business with Capsuleer at present time, the creators of Capsuleer are scrapping the application in spite.
Shame on you.
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Tarartia
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Posted - 2010.10.12 10:07:00 -
[248]
Originally by: Orange Lagomorph All these little apps can suck it.
Until CCP allows us to change skill training without opening up the graphical client (some devices simply can't run it), I have no use for all this nonsense. I already know all of my characters' information, and I can read news blurbs at home. I don't need to look at that crap fifteen times per day, and frankly I'm happy to be away from EVE when not actively playing it.
Then again, this is the iPhonepodgadgetdroid generation, where everyone has their snout crammed into a device sixteen hours a day. My sister gets ****ed off at me because when I'm not traveling, I turn off my cell phone for months a stretch, rely on my land line, and refuse to read texts and other such nonsense.
Nice troll, back under the bridge (or should I say technophobic rock) with you.
BTW +1 support for Capsuleer from me!
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Corozan Aspinall
Party Time Inc.
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Posted - 2010.10.12 10:11:00 -
[249]
Originally by: Tarartia
Originally by: Orange Lagomorph All these little apps can suck it.
Until CCP allows us to change skill training without opening up the graphical client (some devices simply can't run it), I have no use for all this nonsense. I already know all of my characters' information, and I can read news blurbs at home. I don't need to look at that crap fifteen times per day, and frankly I'm happy to be away from EVE when not actively playing it.
Then again, this is the iPhonepodgadgetdroid generation, where everyone has their snout crammed into a device sixteen hours a day. My sister gets ****ed off at me because when I'm not traveling, I turn off my cell phone for months a stretch, rely on my land line, and refuse to read texts and other such nonsense.
Nice troll, back under the bridge (or should I say technophobic rock) with you.
BTW +1 support for Capsuleer from me!
TBH I'm with Agent Orange.
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Cendrillion
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Posted - 2010.10.12 21:59:00 -
[250]
Don't have the time to read all of these posts, sosorry if I am parroting anyone.
Rant
CCP, you will not lose any money to allow capsuleer to become a paid app, they can roll out a new version with a new feature or limit the current version and charge five-ten bucks for the new/full version. Hell, maybe even go so far as to give them some public support to allow them to continue to make YOUR product better with no skin off your backs?
/Rant
Evegate will not make you additional money (and it best stay that way), and can you honestly say that capsuleer doesn't help retain your players through its ability to monitor skills. Plus, there is no way in hell that it does not benefit you if the playerbase is plugged into Eve when they on a bus/train/plane/class?
Its a win win win situation for CCP, the capsuleer devs, and the playerbase, whats the big holdup??? Save Capsuleer!
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Kidain
Gallente Rule of Five
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Posted - 2010.10.12 22:38:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Cendrillion Don't have the time to read all of these posts, sosorry if I am parroting anyone.
Rant
CCP, you will not lose any money to allow capsuleer to become a paid app, they can roll out a new version with a new feature or limit the current version and charge five-ten bucks for the new/full version. Hell, maybe even go so far as to give them some public support to allow them to continue to make YOUR product better with no skin off your backs?
/Rant
Evegate will not make you additional money (and it best stay that way), and can you honestly say that capsuleer doesn't help retain your players through its ability to monitor skills. Plus, there is no way in hell that it does not benefit you if the playerbase is plugged into Eve when they on a bus/train/plane/class?
Its a win win win situation for CCP, the capsuleer devs, and the playerbase, whats the big holdup??? Save Capsuleer!
Th big problem? They are probably half way though creating an EVE Gate App for phones that does exactly what Capsuleer and the others do.
And there is no way they are going to "help" the competitor.
Sadly though it seems as if the makers of Capsuleer thought that by throwing the toys out of the pram and getting the community on side they would get lots of money.
I don't see the makers if Iclone complaining and to say capsuleer was taking more and more time to maintain is weird. I mean seriously what do you do to have to "maintain?" --------------------------------------
In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion. - Douglas Adams |
Sciencegeek deathdealer
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Posted - 2010.10.12 23:27:00 -
[252]
CCP really dropped the ball this time.
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XD Andy
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.12 23:34:00 -
[253]
This is extremely sad news.
Capsuleer has to be one of my most used iPhone apps. It will be a real shame to so it go.
I've used it since fanfest '08 where I was put onto it by one of the Transgaming guys, and actually downloaded and installed it during the Mac round table talk.
I sincerely hope CCP review their position regarding this issue, although I'm certain there must be issues regarding setting a precedent in this sort of area.
If nothing else, thank you for all your time and effort to date. It has been, and will continue to be, genuinely appreciated.
Andy
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Zathi Shaitan
Illiteracy Combatants
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Posted - 2010.10.13 00:47:00 -
[254]
Typical CCP. Typical EON Mag too (ya know, the guys that typed "minmitar" instead of "minmatar" in a bunch of pages on the last issue.
---- http://loseloose.com/
http://youryoure.com/
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alittlebirdy
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Posted - 2010.10.13 05:51:00 -
[255]
So ccp says no, because CCP wants spacebook to keep moving fowards, then comes along with some BS to feed everyone just like, fixing the lag, I lol @ you ccp.
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BAteh
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.13 14:02:00 -
[256]
Chris and Marcus: Don't let it die. Open source it and let the app follow its merited course.
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Aera Aiana
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.10.13 15:38:00 -
[257]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 09/10/2010 14:09:27
Originally by: Aera Aiana
Originally by: Killian Burns Capsuleer devs dont worry about community, all they want is money. So they free to make money in another place now.
Which is why it has been free thus far... right.
No, it was free as they didn't have a license to charge for it.
Well, hello there. You must be the resident forum clown. I'm sure you give your performances for free too and hope someone will pay you afterwards, right? They certainly wouldn't have started to develop a third party application if all they cared about was money. There are so many other ways to make a buck as a programmer. Which I'm sure they're going to do now. - Don't let the trolls stop you from giving a helpful reply. :) |
Zin Mercher
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Posted - 2010.10.13 17:23:00 -
[258]
Originally by: BAteh Chris and Marcus: Don't let it die. Open source it and let the app follow its merited course.
Since it appears CCP will not pick up the ball on this (unless something is in the works behind the scenes now), I would agree with the above. Open source it. Let someone with a little extra time and money keep it alive. I have both iClone and Capsuleer on my phone and I repeatedly turn to CAPS for a quick fix and update on my skill cues.
Please reconsider. There are some savvy guys would love to chance to pick up the ball for you guys.
Zin |
Brutorr
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Posted - 2010.10.13 18:20:00 -
[259]
I find it odd that the cost to keep Capsuleer going became too great at the same time Capsuleer found out CCP will not do business with them.
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Siiee
Recycled Heroes
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Posted - 2010.10.14 07:55:00 -
[260]
Originally by: Aera Aiana
Well, hello there. You must be the resident forum clown. I'm sure you give your performances for free too and hope someone will pay you afterwards, right?
That's so right. There certainly has never been a business that attempted to build a large and loyal user base with a free app or service, with the intent to transition to pay services at a later date. No one would ever pump their adoption numbers to attempt to get investors to buy in by releasing an early version of their product for free and heavily advertising, constantly teasing unreleased "advanced" features in an attempt to gain more market share over competitors before being anywhere near release.
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Terminal Insanity
Minmatar Foundation
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Posted - 2010.10.14 08:03:00 -
[261]
sorry but this type of software doesnt belong in the 'business' department. Capsuleer was nice but essentially easy to code.
It seems like the developers put way too much emphasis on monetizing on their creation, rather then just making it. Judging by your forum post, i'd bet CCP just got sick of paying your fees.
This is proof as to why these types of programs dont belong in the hands of paid 'professionals'. TBH Im sure theres at least 2 dozen players in eve who both have the ability and time to create this for free. Look at all the applications that are out for the PC etc, believe it or not, the iPhone is actually easier to program...
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Tifforsia
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Posted - 2010.10.14 12:09:00 -
[262]
The application really lacked any utility to be honest. Sure, you could monitor your skills.. Just in case you hadn't utilized your 24 hour skill que or something. It didn't allow you to change them. Frankly who likes watching their skills tick down? The best part of the skill system to me is that I can watch a movie, go on a boat or straight up leave the country for a month and it magically keeps going and it's wallah! done! Actually watching them tick down 24/7 would make me want to kill myself tbh.
Why would you want to do that? Either way my phone has a clock and I know how long my skills will last because I set them so if I want to monitor them I can look at the cellphone. Its sad people seem to need a program to put those two things together for them.
Here I'll write you a new program 1. Look at skill time until completion 2. Click start. 3. Look at clock. 4. Add the two times. 5. Apply to 24hr day cycle. 6. Continue as normal.
Now install that into your brains you hapless ******s.
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Grog Barrel
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Posted - 2010.10.14 18:36:00 -
[263]
Originally by: Tifforsia
Why would you want to do that?
to pretend you are doing something cool and heavly interesting, when you actually have nothing to do, i.e. smoke a round.
yerr know?
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Anke Eissmann
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Posted - 2010.10.15 10:36:00 -
[264]
Edited by: Anke Eissmann on 15/10/2010 10:38:33 I used to use Capsuleer on the iPod touch. But I've moved on to Android devices now. I didn't find that Capsuleer really did very much. I just showed character info, current skill queue and a feed from the circle jerk of eve blog pack or whatever it was. Sucks to see developers lose interest in their projects and move on, but that's life. Move on to another application It's not like this was Evemon, EveHQ or any of the other myriad of apps which are completely awesome and allow so much planning and information.
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Mortalius DiVear
Amarr Meibion Glyndwr.
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Posted - 2010.10.15 13:52:00 -
[265]
iphone.. pff..
I recommend Aura for android! |
Cyrus Doul
Infinite Covenant
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Posted - 2010.10.15 16:28:00 -
[266]
Originally by: Mortalius DiVear iphone.. pff..
I recommend Aura for android!
I was just going to ask if capsuleer was like Aura. Only beef I have with aura is that in the skill planner the current skill training does not update the timer unless you log in and pause training for a moment. Other then that I like it better then evemon tbh.
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General Gunnery
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Posted - 2010.10.18 21:14:00 -
[267]
well, this sucks.
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Tryst Sabaro
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Posted - 2010.10.20 02:10:00 -
[268]
You know what really sucks ... I just got an iPhone today and Capsuleer has been the main reason I've wanted one for the last few months.
That aside, I'm very sorry to hear about your plans not taking root. I wish you guys the best of luck in your future projects, and who knows, maybe you'll get a chance to dust off Capsuleer and breathe life back into it in the future.
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KaarBaak
Minmatar Hell's Librarians Darkmatter Initiative
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Posted - 2010.10.20 02:28:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Krispy Dingo Edited by: Krispy Dingo on 06/10/2010 22:29:47
Originally by: Devoyd iClone blows. Too bulky, too slow.
I used to feel that way, but anymore I actually find myself using all the features in it. If you could just update certain items on demand, it would be better. Also, it now has multitasking support, which is really nice.
iClone dev is pushing out a 'lite' version for all of the people that miss capsuleer.
KB
Removed. Please keep your signature completely in English. Navigator
I think that core audiences in the West are big fans of simply paying that monthly subscription and getting everything, and so I think we're going to stick with that. --S |
waynemcbain
Caldari Serenity Engineering and Transport Company True Reign
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Posted - 2010.10.20 14:37:00 -
[270]
I got rid of my iHeapof**** and the only thing I miss is Capsuleer. Too bad things didnt work out it was a really solid application which I spent a lot of time using.
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Dawn Hammer
Amarr High Flyers Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.20 14:42:00 -
[271]
Edited by: Dawn Hammer on 20/10/2010 15:57:10 Really people? Eve is a wonderful and exciting game, but really? Getting an iPhone just for an app for a game? An app that is totally useless for that matter. Seriously, do you honestly need to have access to your characters in your damn pocket? I've been playing for 3 1/2 years and never needed or wanted anything more than Evemon which allows me to see if any characters I might have forgotten about need a skill added into the queue. And I manage 9 characters, 4 of my own, and 3 are my brother's who is in the submarine service, and cannot always change his skills, along with 2 of his roommate's who serves on the same sub. If I can manage 9 characters with nothing more than what is already free and can be installed on whatever machine I need it to be, I highly doubt you need that app.
And before someone says "oh, you have never looked at this app, you don't know what it does." Actually, I had it on my iPod and found it utterly useless. So I know what you people are "losing", and it is nothing you should be complaining about. Grow up.
Also, if you want to be angry with someone, be angry with these so called "beloved" developers of this, btw useless, app. CCP's statement (although they hate that term) was practically forced because the developers of Capsuleer made this whole thing public when it should have been a private matter between them and CCP. They merely had to say "hey, we are discontinuing support for our application, thank you for your support through the years, we are terribly sorry." Instead they went off and threw a tantrum, proclaiming to the whole world that CCP didn't want to allow them to charge for their, btw useless, app.
Oh wait, that wasn't the real issue, what? Their issue was CCP's hints at a business relationship, and then CCP forgetting about them. Oh well. They have bigger fish to fry than a couple of guys with a decent idea and the ability to code something that probably 25% of eve players can also code.
My point is: If you want to be angry, be angry at these developers for making a big deal out of this and going to the community hoping to sway CCP. They have failed by the looks of the official statement. Flame all you want about your, btw useless, app. I doubt it will come back unless these guys truly "love the community," I don't see other iPhone/iPod apps that do the same thing charging people, so obviously these guys just wanted money and were developing on the hopes of eventual profit. So, in short, again, grow up people.
And stop blaming CCP without actually READING (yes, I know, novel concept) what is being said, and then reflecting on it so that a valuable and un-childish response can be posted. CCP was in no way at fault here. In fact no one really was at fault. Although your developers did throw a tantrum, albeit a well worded and concise tantrum.
*EDIT: Added some more opinions.
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Grunch
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Posted - 2010.10.27 17:05:00 -
[272]
Blah blah blah your opinions suck my opinions are better and I will write a book to prove it blah blah blah
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2010.10.27 17:22:00 -
[273]
Originally by: Tryst Sabaro You know what really sucks ... I just got an iPhone today and Capsuleer has been the main reason I've wanted one for the last few months.
Are you serious?
You forfeit the right to own money, please forward all your money to me from now on.
Originally by: captain foivos Who would recruit someone named Barakkus?
Wait a minute...
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Tryst Sabaro
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Posted - 2010.11.03 12:54:00 -
[274]
It was the main reason, not the only reason. I still like the phones other powerful media capabilities, the thing puts my old blackberry to shame.
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.11.03 13:00:00 -
[275]
Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 03/11/2010 13:01:51
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Tryst Sabaro You know what really sucks ... I just got an iPhone today and Capsuleer has been the main reason I've wanted one for the last few months.
Are you serious?
You forfeit the right to own money, please forward all your money to me from now on.
Still this. The concept of Capsuleer is hardly unique to a platform designed around lockdown.
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Goremageddon Box
Minmatar Guerrilla Flotilla
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Posted - 2010.11.03 13:01:00 -
[276]
apple = ******ed _______________________ Hottest Character Ever. |
the 9999
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Posted - 2010.11.12 08:43:00 -
[277]
They could have easily allowed them to charge a buck. Noone would have died. If they wanted to keep it free it was stupid from ccp
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Maximilian Black
Techno-Wizard Industrial Technologies
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Posted - 2010.12.28 16:43:00 -
[278]
Edited by: Maximilian Black on 28/12/2010 16:44:55 This is a huge bummer. Like many others, I use Capsuleer multiple times per day, actually far more than my iPhone email and almost as much as my phone functionality. It allowed me a distraction during my breaks at work and to strategize about my characters' development plans without needing to login if it was inconvenient or impossible. Basically, it was there and handy when I needed it. It's a great tool that served a need of mine, and I'm sorry to see this happen.
I was very disappointed to hear development was stopped completely and the app was pulled down from the iPhone store, and feel somewhat abandoned, to be frank. The app itself still works just fine even on a older iPhone 3G with iOS 4.x, and worked fine under iOS 3.x. I hadn't read news for a while, but then again, that's not the main reason I used Capsuleer, but it was a nice extra feature.
iClone is feature rich, but it's bulky and updates are horrifically slow over 3G. The Lite version is faster, but it doesn't have countdowns, no notifications, no news, and I can't go review skills like I can with Capsuleer.
As somebody with a iPhone developer license, which I was going to let expire due to disuse, I'm now wondering if it'd be worthwhile to renew it and see if the guys would be willing to pass on the Capsuleer code to others to support. Obviously there are business issues surrounding charging money for it, but I'd hope that Roc and the team were doing this for the love of the game, not to make money off of Eve.
Surely there are other like-minded folks like myself who would like to take a swing at taking over the code base to keep Capsuleer alive. It'd be a shame for such a great app to die a pitiful death due to a desire to make money. It should have been clear to anyone developing an app based on someone else's intellectual property that there would be limits to making money on someone else's work.
But then again, I can also appreciate their desire to offset the time spent making the app. Personally I never once saw any notice that Capsuleer was at risk of dying, never saw any solicitations for donations to keep it alive, and never visited any supporting websites. I just used the app, blissfully unaware that it was at risk of discontinuation.
Was there any effort made to see if developers in the community were willing to take over support? It'd be a shame if there wasn't. :(
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