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Character creation & customisation feedback - Round 2

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CCP Gangleri Minmatar	Posted - 2010.10.13 16:53:00 - [1] Edited by: CCP Gangleri on 13/10/2010 16:55:10 We have made some improvements and added a lot more assets to the character creation and customization system. It is all still a work in progress and not final. Old feedback thread is here. Known issues: The message shown when selecting an existing character is to allow you to either enter the new creation system or skip it altogether and enter space straightaway All art assets are still WIP, this is especially true for hair, makeup and skin details. As with last update the portrait you create is not actually used in the client, this depends on another backend system that is not in place on Sisi yet Mac client will not load an avatar on highest shader setting (enable fastcharacters setting for a temporary workaround) This feature is still best enjoyed with the shader setting on high, on the lower settings it looks bad. The very first screen in character creation, the one where you select your race, bloodline and gender has been updated but is still WIP. And it will take a few seconds for the characters to load once a race has been selected There are still some texture seams between head and body Opening the escape menu will cause you the character to be blacked out Using the escape menu will usually crash the client. The controls for the skin customization are not final. The limits for sculpting are still WIP Certain SM2 hardware may crash (set shader to low and enable fastcharacters), please post your hardware specs if you fall into this category Direct selection of the areas now works for choosing the different areas to customize, but we still have not removed need to for menu dropdowns Fast characters option toggle allows you to bypass the race/bloodline/gender preset for existing characters The eyelashes may clip through the eyelids when the character blinks, male eyelashes are skewed. Tips: The plan is still to add a form of undo/redo before release The plan is still to add a randomizing feature before release We plan to add skin tone selection. ------------------ Tester, Scrum Master Quality Assurance

chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2010.10.13 17:05:00 - [2] Edited by: chatgris on 13/10/2010 17:07:01 On Low graphics settings, I was not able to get the sculpting grid to load. No matter where I clicked and dragged, only the shoulders would change shape. On high graphics settings, the sculpting grid works fine. edit: this behaviour has existed before and after this current iteration.
Windle Poons Amarr Ankh-Morpork City Watch	Posted - 2010.10.13 17:17:00 - [3] Are movable features planned before release? Moving depth, height of such things as nose, brow, eyes, ears. Any possibility of non symmetric faces?
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2010.10.13 17:37:00 - [4] Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 13/10/2010 17:46:27 Couldn't get the sculpting grid to show. Tried playing with the different shaders quickly and with the fastload character option, but it made no difference. Tried to make my meaty woman to have an actual ass instead of a small butt a 13 year old boy might have and I can only alter the shoulders. Still no indication what I'm actually changing and how. The character creator is pretty much useless for me in the current build. On high shader setting I get this.
Azureite	Posted - 2010.10.13 18:17:00 - [5] In order to rotate your person you have to click somewhere off of their face/body. If you click on their face or body and try to drag and rotate them then it doesn't do anything - this is annoying. There's no reason for the avatar not to rotate when you are clicking on and trying to drag the person rather than the space around them. Hair colors on the Female Amarr still often look nothing like the colors shown on the dial.
Turelus Caldari Independent Navy Reserve OWN Alliance	Posted - 2010.10.13 18:26:00 - [6] I'll keep updating this with issues as I try it over the next couple of days. - adding any kind of bottomouter & feet now darkens the hair and seems to add a gloss to it. - body sculpting seems very jumpy to now. - Lighting wheel could use a red dot to mark the original position (so you can remember you like three to the left or two to the right)
Corin Durant Gallente	Posted - 2010.10.13 18:32:00 - [7] Hair choices for Gallente/Gallente males don't look anything like the selection offered. Some bad clipping with clothing options. When chosing clothes, a ring of discolor appears around the hair for Gallente/Gallente male that looks like a texture issue. Not sure about other races/bloodlines.
Celeste Starwind Mustela nivalis. Stella Polaris.	Posted - 2010.10.13 18:53:00 - [8] Actually, I miss a tool to translate old avatar data to new. A button "make maximum resemblance to old avatar"
Calathea Sata State War Academy	Posted - 2010.10.13 18:53:00 - [9] - Pressed ESC to open options window when creating char and without changing anything I pressed ESC again to close it, the game says "Shader setting changing..." but the game crashed, and an error window poped up saying it's crashed, something about _trinity.dll. - Facial features are now 3 axis! Great job on that one. (The sculpting controls behave differently when you're looking from the front / from the side.) It's indeed much more intuitive now. Please keep it that way (and make people aware of the front/side difference) but perhaps put in more control points. - The whole character creation UI (or feel) is so different from the rest of the game, it makes entering the game feel like going back in time or going to a different game or something. E.g. if you're going to use those circular sliding things why not put them into the actual game. - Topinner puts an extra piece of bottominner (of a matching color) on my char (undie on top of undie), making the bottominner slider not that useful.
Borgh Brainbasher Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.10.13 19:06:00 - [10] Sweet sweet beards. Although I still miss my 5 o'clock shadow in the list. skin for brutr men seems to have gotten a major boost from "white guy who sat in tanning both for too long" to "actual black-ish dude" lack of loose dreads will get you murdered by Mynxee

Lucien Tripoux	Posted - 2010.10.13 19:36:00 - [11] Edited by: Lucien Tripoux on 13/10/2010 19:37:53 I don't know if it's due to my computer, but all beards look blurry. Is it intended?
Kyoko Sakoda Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2010.10.13 20:20:00 - [12] Sculpting grid is still sticky and doesn't always respond on click-and-drag, in particular on the body. It is more responsive on the face. Sculpting limits are indeed still very much WIP. ♥ ___ Latest video: Future Proof (720p) 2D Animator
Calathea Sata State War Academy	Posted - 2010.10.13 20:43:00 - [13] faces - please put in more control spots e.g. eyeheight... forehead size... also the face/cheeks need 1 or 2 more sliders/areas...
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2010.10.13 20:50:00 - [14] Can you add the ability to sculpt the "cup" of the chin so that we don't get ridiculously pointy chins? ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Jenny Hawk State War Academy	Posted - 2010.10.13 20:56:00 - [15] A few findings (female): 1> Nice that we have a new eyeliner menu! 2> The eyeshadow menu now gives only yellow, blue and red eyeshadow. Even the brown colour palette shows yellow now! This obviously isn't an improvement. 3> Light effects are now very extreme, the subtlety has gone. Can we have sliders for light direction AND intensity AND colour? 4> Going back and forth between 2nd and 3rd screen turns the mouse beserk
Publius Valerius Amarr East Khanid Trading Khanid Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2010.10.13 21:08:00 - [16] Very nice.. I like that we can now more sculpting. I think the Amarr/Amarr/Male become better, but I think there should be a funktion, that make them younger (so one point of the wheel should make them, or maybe all athers races and blodlines, younger) http://img146.imageshack.us/f/20101013210044.jpg/ P.S In the beginning where we can choose the races and bloodlines... in this overview are all males are naked.
Jenny Hawk State War Academy	Posted - 2010.10.13 21:30:00 - [17] Originally by: Publius Valerius Very nice.. I like that we can now more sculpting. I think the Amarr/Amarr/Male become better, but I think there should be a funktion, that make them younger (so one point of the wheel should make them, or maybe all athers races and blodlines, younger) Perhaps for the men but the Khanid female looks like she¦s not more than 16-18 years old .. but perhaps when the other 4 age options are active you can add/subtract a number of years .. Originally by: Publius Valerius P.S In the beginning where we can choose the races and bloodlines... in this overview are all males are naked. LOL I noticed that too!! xD
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2010.10.13 21:31:00 - [18] Sculpting could be improved esp WIP textures between head and body need work Waiting for next output to comment further
Princess Aspire DarkStar 1 Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.10.13 21:32:00 - [19] Edited by: Princess Aspire on 13/10/2010 21:33:42 can we get some acount reactivations or... please :)
Soden Rah Gallente Rapier Industry and Technology Second Sun Rising	Posted - 2010.10.13 23:09:00 - [20] I tested this on max graphix settings shader 3. I would like to say that I am looking forward to incarna and am looking forward to recreating my charachter in full 3d 'realisum?' and on first impressions the new avatars look great. But... While I am not going to comment on things obviousely not working yet as this is beta and you're already working on that. I do however have some thoughts on the design of the avatar creation system which do appear to be the way you are going forwards for the finished product. My biggest issue is that everything from clothing to eybrow type, seems to be selected with strange virtual knobs, while some things wich represent smooth transitions form one extreem to another (freckle count for example) might suit a twisly knob things, or standard slider bars. Descrete mutually exclusive options, hair style, colour, clothing type.... are best suited to drop down menue's with actual descriptions of what all the options are. This is less fancy and swish looking perhaps, but its a lot more functional and is much more self explanitory for the beginer. lets face it creating a charachter is THE first thing all new players will do, you shouldn't need to guess what elements do, it should be self explanitory. As for the Avatars themselves, I understand that the sculpting is still WIP but I would like to request that when complete it allows for; chin dimples, a small thing I know but both my male avatars have them and I really want to be able have them on my new avatars. Stubble/5 o'clock shadow, not currently included in the beard options but should definately be there. More control over the neck area, including lengh thickness and the two socking great muscles (sorry no idea what they are called) that come triangularly down from either side, they may be fine if your a body building fanatic caldari, but as a galente my chars are far more refined and civilised and thus don't look like Arnold Schwarzenegger. On a similar vain posibly an option to modify not just muscle's and weight but muscle-tone as well would be nice. Basically I wan't the option to make my chars look more like average joe's if I wan't to... my charachters got into the pod program through intelectual ability not muscle strengh, and as at least one is a special forces member, he should be able to disapear into a crowd not stand out like a sore-thumb. I'm assuming, and just want to make sure, warpaint/tatoos need to be there, all my chars have them. Also on the clothing I assume there will be more available on launch (again selection through dropdowns makes sooo much more sence than the weird swirly knobs) but I would like to request some top coats that are full/floor lengh. Somthing from the neo/morpheus line would be nice, Also the gold braided jacket you have atm, I love, but could I have a full/floor lengh version please :-) Soden Rah

Marchocias Silent Ninja's	Posted - 2010.10.13 23:37:00 - [21] 1) Changing from fullscreen to windowed mode during character creation, I'm left with a full-black silouette of the character, no textures or lighting visible. 2) If I cancel character creation and return to character selection screen, and then return to character creation, the main character model doesn't display, but I do see the blue wireframe selection grids appearing if I move the mouse. ---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it).
Kaity Shtoll	Posted - 2010.10.13 23:47:00 - [22] Wow, lights are really out of control now! ItÆs so intense and extreme û only a couple can be really used. But I think this is a known issue. Now again about uniqueness... Look at this thread. Not a single pair of similar characters on the avatars. And big part of it is background. Do you plan to add more backgrounds? Not only color but textures?
Joe Starbreaker M. Corp	Posted - 2010.10.14 00:23:00 - [23] My feedback: 1) The Khanid male looks better! Previously I complained that the default age looked way too old and wrinkly. Now it appears to start around age 30 (still, older than other bloodlines) and the age slider works well. 2) Under "skin details" (again, the Khanid male), "eye details" seems to just be a kind of eye makeup. "Cheek color" for some reason looks like a sunburn -- it puts red splotches on the forehead, nose, and the skin on both sides of the nose (not farther out on the cheekbones, though). 3) I still hate the dials. I want sliders with numbers on them, for understanding and replicability. It is still unclear what the two-part knobs with an inner dial and outer selector are supposed to do. 4) The "weight" slider still doesn't do anything to the face, which means that the transition between neck and head gets really strange. 5) Looks like you can pull the chin left and right for a sideways smile. Is that new? Looks promising! 6) After sculpting the head, I switched to full body and noticed that a kind of "halo" appeared on the character's hair. It wasn't a glow, but rather was as if a cross section (a slice parallel to the "floor") of his hair was lighter than the rest. When I went back to "head" view you could still see it. Even changing hairstyle it was still there. In the screenshot below you can see just a little of it... the very top curl of the hairstyle which appears more blond than the rest. Sorry I don't have any better screenshots. New joe starbreaker here. ... Join M. Corp, see the Galaxy
Seishi Maru Organization for Nuclear Research	Posted - 2010.10.14 00:55:00 - [24] In fact the client dont give me anymore the option to remake my character look. Dammit
Barkaial Starfinder Minmatar The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost	Posted - 2010.10.14 01:00:00 - [25] PURE WIN Managed to run it with >good< graphics on a gforce 7300 Its laggy, but working. Sometimes it can switch black, and sometimes it might crash, but I guess it's my old hardware fault, and not that frequent.. I did two characters with two crashes. I like the sculpture tool, and didnt have problems handleing it. Lots of room to improvements though. The thing I miss the most is the bloodlines characteristics, but i'm not even complaining because i think it is that way for testing purposes, RIGHT? Other than that.. Just need more features do customize.. Will get much better after the WIP stuff is done. It's missing the blind eyes texture too. DONT FORGET IT OK? =p
Lilibeth Suko	Posted - 2010.10.14 01:50:00 - [26] First of all, I like the looser limits you've given with the morph controls, having more freedom is better. Things that I've noticed however: 1) The new character creator menu won't let me proceed to the sculpting even though I chose a race, bloodline and gender. 2) The hair sits a little high on the head, making the foreheads just a bit too big. 3) In pose mode, the smiling option gives heavy wrinkles around the mouth and makes the characters look possessed. All in all though, great progress. I can't wait for the next update. -Lilibeth
Commissar Kate Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive	Posted - 2010.10.14 01:54:00 - [27] Hmmm Question whats up with the First and Last Name on the Character Creator? Why the two boxes instead of one now?
Dian Rasd Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.10.14 03:12:00 - [28] Edited by: Dian Rasd on 14/10/2010 03:14:51 Face sculpting makes now 'smooth' faces without wierd looking edges. Very nice! However the third* sculpting point on the nose needs work. Seemed to mess things up a bit + in general the sculpting options for the nose aren't even WIP, they are plain ridiculous and stupid. Thought we wanted to move away from the cartoonish look? *the one that's new
Nikita Alterana Risen Angels	Posted - 2010.10.14 06:16:00 - [29] K, lets see Sculpting is much better now, much smoother, faster, more responsive, and more in depth, although as I've said, there is a slight issue in that its a very complicated tool to use, which is sort of silly considering its only going to be used once. Functionality should trump prettiness. The ring spinners are still rather meh, their not needed, they lag the system rendering the realistic dial spinning, the dials still slip the wrong direction when clicked on, and its overall still difficult to use. I think it could be fixed to work well, its not that bad, but I think on principle, they are a bad idea. One thing I think that would really help, was if there was some sort of labeling on the spinner to delineate between the options, for instance, on the eyes, label what each type is, same on the hair, etc, etc. Still no options to change skin tone. CCP this needs to exist. All the characters are currently a very generic perfect white except for the Brutors. (lolgenericblackpeople) In the old client, my Intaki character looked rather Indian with her dark skin, but now Intaki's are bland white. Even the Asian bloodlines don't have much differentiation between skin pigments, the Achurans, Vherokiors, and Khanid look rather white considering they're supposed to be distinctly Asian. Overall CCP, I know it might be a bit hard to implement this due to the way the avatars are rendered, but you really can't skimp on it. There needs to be that level of modifiability or everyone will look the same. Before you could roll anything from black to olive tan on a brutor, you could roll anything from pale as a ghost to half black with Gallente, you could roll anything from creamy white to distinctly Indian with Intaki, there should be more skin color options, not less. I'm glad everyone will have unique, sculpted faces that look photorealistic, but on the tiny little boxes, all we'll see are faces with no way to tell them apart. It also hurts a lot of immersion factor, since one of the reasons I found eve special was that it lacked the whole "in the future everyone will be white and European" I feel like we're drifting back towards that. The races still lack any unique feel. No accessories, no more outfits, no tattoos, no piercings, nothing to make one character stand apart from another...you see the problem I'm seeing here? We've gone from, in the old system, everyone looking like their bloodlines, and the bloodlines looking similar, to everyone just looking similar. Sure, there are a lot of for instance, hair options, but when you look at the big picture, there are going to be a LOT of clones, this used to only happen in the same bloodline, but its gonna happen a whole lot more if we don't get some more really distinct big things to tell the bloodlines apart. Female hair colors are still incredibly different in the pallet then they are on the body Female hair on some of the styles are still too high up on the head, too much forehead, specifically on the long straight one, but all of the longer styles suffer this a bit. Specifically the hair style with the half Mohawk in the back, the hair cuts into the face above the right eye. Sculpting the body is still incredibly awkward, its just a pain in the ass to do and pulling and pushing on things doesn't do what you'd expect to a rather annoying degree. The same is true to of the expression sculpting on the pose section, though not quite as much so, and there's still no way to have asymmetrical expressions, like a half grin, or a raised eyebrow. so overall, in terms of core technology, its improving, in terms of the actual usability and modifiability though? not so much. Crazy doesn't even start to cover it
Morux	Posted - 2010.10.14 06:46:00 - [30] Dunno if this is still on the drawing board, but it seems that the characters are still boxed into a 25-40 year age range. Trying to make a character actually look like they have some age on them is difficult (couldn't seem to apply "grey hair", etc.) The age effects also seem to only apply to the very front of the face, and not to sides/back/neck, etc... so the char looks odd once you get done. Skin tends to "droop" and increase as you age (think of shar pei dogs), instead of just having dents in it as the modeler suggests. Someone mentioned in the thread that there may be some options for initial age selections but couldn't find anything out there about this being supported in the final char-modeler version. Would be awesome to be able to start out with a generalized age group before modeling a character. Specs: Running with SM2 on a laptop (and the client crashes at char selection under high shader, fyi). Side note: Have seen some youtube vids out there from folks who have a gfx card that ISN'T crap - the overall results look awesome on a decent system, so to the devs - kudos on the work done so far... looks pretty dang cool



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