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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2010.11.11 02:04:00 - [271] Originally by: CCP Soundwave WeÆve been doing public playtests of these sites on sisi and will very likely continue to do so, which means you can come check them out for yourselves. But yeah, tl;dr is that if you run these, you wonÆt be poor for long. Soundwave are you just out of the loop or what? it hasn't been tested for almost a month now. and the expansion is being released in 6-10 days. it will NOT be tested at this point. Did they just forget to tell you they took it down? Because we WANT to test it. We want to give feedback on the spawning and if it seems to small, too big and such. but we can't.
Inipinipocoloco	Posted - 2010.11.11 02:09:00 - [272] word Azureite, thats a important point - what does ccp expect if an incursion hit motsu ? 900 player singing the happy happy joy joy song ? all the things ccp gave up over the year were parts of the sandbox, good and bad, this does not feel like sandbox it feels like worldofevecraft - no thanks
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2010.11.11 02:09:00 - [273] Edited by: MotherMoon on 11/11/2010 02:10:16 Originally by: HeliosGal About the 00 and low sec cyno JF logistics networks CCP should as a matter of course perhaps a side affect of sansha wh activity spawn more direct 4-12 hour limited wormholes form known to known space esp high sec to 00 , low sec to 00, low sec to high and 00 to 00 to allow Black ops types erm whats the word, covert logistical movements and provide more pvp points. wow that's... that's actually a constructive good idea O.o Who are you and what did you do with helios! also to CCP soundwave, I fully support that it should be a pain in the ass, and that any sort of PvE that could be taken as a "raid" by the mmo community needs to be hardcore eve style and be mean, and cruel, and brutal. That way there is no way for people to think it's easy, because eve is not easy, it's a scary universe : ) Which is why I still think that leaving them alone should make them spread like an infection. So you CAN'T ignore it even if you wanted to. like a brush fire. Originally by: Inipinipocoloco word Azureite, thats a important point - what does ccp expect if an incursion hit motsu ? 900 player singing the happy happy joy joy song ? all the things ccp gave up over the year were parts of the sandbox, good and bad, this does not feel like sandbox it feels like worldofevecraft - no thanks So what your saying is if it was instanced group PvE for fun with ZERO effect on the universe it would be MORE sandboxy? Are you ****ing kidding me?
Dragon Greg	Posted - 2010.11.11 02:12:00 - [274] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: CCP Soundwave ThatÆs EVE, itÆs not always a very nice place. The point I (and other people) object to is that EVE is not a very nice place *because of other players. If another player (or group of players) decides to do something not-nice to you, you have options. You can fight back. You can try diplomacy. You can choose a location where you are not likely to be a target. Etc. And in all cases, there are real people on the other side, doing things according to some kind of rational plan. With these incursions, not-nice things are happening because the random number generator said so*. Why is my cyno network shut down right before a major battle? Because the random number generator said so. Why did I just get ganked by an NPC gatecamp that came out of nowhere? Because the random number generator said so. Why did my planned night of running missions get ruined? Because the random number generator said so. See the difference here? And that, shows exactly the lack of vision coming from CCP.
Apollo Gabriel Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2010.11.11 02:17:00 - [275] I love it! I've not read the last 10 pages, I will now. To those saying this isn't the sand box ... As to empire, we've got roughly 2000 systems? They're all the same, really they are, station X, mission Y, time to sleep ZZZZ. If they hit your mission hub go elsewhere. Did you read the mission text? it says we need your help, bad things are happening, now its real. Do you have to participate? No, does it affect you? Yes. The universe is changing, as did wormholes change your life, so does incursion. Is this more direct? Yes, so was PI. The game is growing, offering more content, more opportunities. Please don't kneejerkoff over this. The sandbox has kept growing, it is growing more. I for one LOVE IT. I want NPCs to be tough, dynamic and fun, or completely removed. I hate isk faucets, I did level 4s till I was nearly in tears, they are too easy, too safe, not dynamic, they are boring kid amusement parks, not sandboxes. Ride the ride, shoot the goons, play eve Apollo =============================== \|\| Don't let the Trolls keep you from your goals. \|\| ===============================
Inipinipocoloco	Posted - 2010.11.11 02:18:00 - [276] mothermoon what i was trying to say is that eve attracts a certain type of players - the ones that stay after others leaving shocked by the learing curve they enjoy a game that they can fill with their own ideas play- and lifestyles, they develop their sandbox i dont think that player type appoves to uncalled for incursions that, like said before ruin the day for a lot and benefit only a few the concept is just frikkin wrong - change the forced crap to special agant spawns that give ut mission for fleets to warp to pockets and fight there - so way more ppl could take part in it and remove those crappy malis to the system noone in eve wants to be forced - by ccp, dont ruin the sandbox
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2010.11.11 02:21:00 - [277] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: CCP Soundwave ThatÆs EVE, itÆs not always a very nice place. The point I (and other people) object to is that EVE is not a very nice place *because of other players. If another player (or group of players) decides to do something not-nice to you, you have options. You can fight back. You can try diplomacy. You can choose a location where you are not likely to be a target. Etc. And in all cases, there are real people on the other side, doing things according to some kind of rational plan. With these incursions, not-nice things are happening because the random number generator said so*. Why is my cyno network shut down right before a major battle? Because the random number generator said so. Why did I just get ganked by an NPC gatecamp that came out of nowhere? Because the random number generator said so. Why did my planned night of running missions get ruined? Because the random number generator said so. See the difference here? PEOPLE ARE NOT SAND.
Kireiina	Posted - 2010.11.11 02:24:00 - [278] Sounds awful.. and this stuff should be on the test server now. In high-sec most people will just avoid them because the fleet limits, fleet competition and griefing opportunities will discourage participation from random Eve gamers. I assume the resistance reduction is also to make sure no noobies in T1 can participate. In low-sec most of the activity will be ganking anyone silly enough to try and run this, unless some large corporation has complete control of the system. And that would involve enough people the payout gets diluted. In high-sec it will be an annoyance that needs to be cleared ASAP. The emergent gameplay will come from people finding ways to exploit it, and harvest tears, in ways CCP didn't think of (not that they appear to be doing much testing anyway). They are putting a "PvE Public Quest" into a game that does not have the foundation for it, doesn't have exciting PvE gameplay (RRBS /snore), and opening a can of balance worms with having zone-wide modifiers (worked well in WH's eh?). Oh yeah, and given the game is rapidly becoming super-carriers online we really needed more named mods and faction super-carriers
TeaDaze	Posted - 2010.11.11 02:26:00 - [279] Originally by: CCP Soundwave IÆm not a big fan on instances or ôartificialö game environments, where you can opt out. No problems with that point of view. Originally by: CCP Soundwave There is no instant dungeon finder here; there is no flagging to participate, this is the world youÆre in and there is no promise or guarantee that itÆs friendly. I disagree, there is a "dungeon finder" system in all but name. You will be able to find where the incursions are and within those systems there are beacons to warp to. This is not a bad thing because it gives potential flashpoints. Also whilst there isn't a direct flagging system, if you want to participate for rewards you have to be in the "winning" fleet. This means instead of flagging with a slash command, people will be begging for a gang invite in local instead. Originally by: CCP Soundwave Just like you can get killed in pretty much all areas of space by players, get locked out of your station in 0.0 or wardecced, youÆll also run into areas under Sansha siege. One of these things is not like the others You mention Player vs Player conflict, Players taking over your station, Players wardeccing your corp/alliance and then imply they are similar to NPCs invading systems picked at random and applying serious penalties. Sorry that isn't a valid comparison. Originally by: CCP Soundwave When that happens, you can chose to fight back (and make a good chunk of cash on the way), or flee the area till the siege is over. ThatÆs EVE, itÆs not always a very nice place. So in the end you actually can "opt out" of the ôartificialö game environment, contrary to the initial quote The best bit about Eve is when players use and abuse stuff CCP put in the sandbox in different ways (frequently to the disadvantage of others ). I don't see this system penalty mechanism as adding to the sandbox, I see it as concreting over a part of it to put up some theme park ride. TeaDaze.net Blog \| CSM Database
Inipinipocoloco	Posted - 2010.11.11 02:28:00 - [280] ya right - the only intereting part in all that crap is ne new AI for npcs - the loot sucks 8) who wants a ship with build in primary anyway hehe except maybe as a ratting mothership - yay^^

Mynxee	Posted - 2010.11.11 02:35:00 - [281] Originally by: TeaDaze Originally by: CCP Soundwave Just like you can get killed in pretty much all areas of space by players, get locked out of your station in 0.0 or wardecced, youÆll also run into areas under Sansha siege. One of these things is not like the others You mention Player vs Player conflict, Players taking over your station, Players wardeccing your corp/alliance and then imply they are similar to NPCs invading systems picked at random and applying serious penalties. Sorry that isn't a valid comparison. Exactly my thoughts. Life In Low Sec
Zagdul Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.11.11 02:36:00 - [282] Seems interesting. I'm laughing at the HTFU attitude the devs are pushing with this. As a 0.0 player, my life is unpredictable. I cannot get into a rhythm with my play style and on many occasions, my itinerary for the day is determined before I log in. Sometimes I log in and an enemy fleet is camping a station and I need to decide if I'm going to fleet up and engage or not. I like the idea of this happening randomly by pirates. Wouldn't mind seeing more of the pirate factions doing similar incursions in the future. I think it adds to the volatile and random nature that is EVE. If done properly, this could be another resource null alliances fight over. I do have one question: If you chose not to participate and allow the incursion to happen, does said event stay indefinitely. In other words, when Sansha invade and you don't kill them, do they stay to eventually fill up all systems in EVE or do they just de-spawn?
Inipinipocoloco	Posted - 2010.11.11 02:43:00 - [283] certainly not cause if it would stay indefinitley ccp forgot who pays their wages 8) not the 0.0 alliances with multi million income ( -> plex) but the carebears living in highsec **** them off enough and you can go look for a new job and we have to look for a new game 8( dont ruin the sandbox
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2010.11.11 02:45:00 - [284] ran out of space. It might seem like a jerk move, for someone to take your sandbox, dump it in the ocean, and say, sorry, were taking the box away now you gotta deal with the Tide, and bullies. Work together or lose your sandcastle. And in way your right, it's not a sandbox anymore. You can just close it up, you can't put up a cover to block out the rain. But life shouldn't be so easy, maybe the idea behind a sandbox game is a bad idea. Maybe we need a new type of game, like with minecraft. Where the point of the game is that everything is trying to kill you. But with other players trying to kill you too. A game where everything tries to kill you! you know, like real life. Not a nice comfy sandbox, but a real universe simulator. I for one then agree with you that this is making it harder to play with the sand. BUT the alternative is more theme park PvE. And the reason no other mmo has done what CCP is doing and they know it's not a mainstream idea to be so mean to the playerbase by adding earthquakes to a sandbox. But CCP has balls, they want to make the PvE NOT a theme park. And since I know PvE has to have a role in an mmo, given the choice between this, and more themepark 0 risk, 0 effect PvE missions. i take this bold new could run into the ground approach. In face I personally would be for removing missions altogether with more systems like this one. Instead of missions having highsec only events that require lots of little 1 man missions. If not run things start to happen. Planets change, peoples trade routes get messed up, whole corp have to move out. forget the idea of quests! QUEST AND EPIC RAIDS ARE LAME. dynamic content witht he highest payout in low sec, and full reign 0.0 no rules PvP is the direction eve should take! Now there are many issues with null sec right now, and low sec needs more than just this to get on the right track. But I still strongly believe this to be the best alternative to WorldofEvecraft. NO INSTANCED PVP! NO INSTANCED PVE!
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2010.11.11 02:45:00 - [285] Originally by: Inipinipocoloco certainly not cause if it would stay indefinitley ccp forgot who pays their wages 8) not the 0.0 alliances with multi million income ( -> plex) but the carebears living in highsec **** them off enough and you can go look for a new job and we have to look for a new game 8( dont ruin the sandbox well something to lure the carebears around - more direct high sec to null and low sec wormholes would be a great way to move players around
Mica Swanhaven	Posted - 2010.11.11 02:50:00 - [286] Originally by: Inipinipocoloco certainly not cause if it would stay indefinitley ccp forgot who pays their wages 8) not the 0.0 alliances with multi million income ( -> plex) but the carebears living in highsec ** them off enough and you can go look for a new job and we have to look for a new game 8( dont ruin the sandbox i say remove all agents and all static PvE points in eve all together. ** of the Carebears to the ends of the earth! gives them more interesting ways to make make isk from thin air. and i say that will do quite the opposite of "ruining" the sandbox.
Inipinipocoloco	Posted - 2010.11.11 02:51:00 - [287] do you really think a high sec to null sec wormhole would make carebears jump into nullsec yelling LEEREROOY ? i dont think so carebears may be many things but they are not stupid 8)
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2010.11.11 02:53:00 - [288] Originally by: HeliosGal Originally by: Inipinipocoloco certainly not cause if it would stay indefinitley ccp forgot who pays their wages 8) not the 0.0 alliances with multi million income ( -> plex) but the carebears living in highsec **** them off enough and you can go look for a new job and we have to look for a new game 8( dont ruin the sandbox well something to lure the carebears around - more direct high sec to null and low sec wormholes would be a great way to move players around agreed. if the reward is greater they will do it. also... why do people keep thinking these things will come randomly out of nowhere? I'm sure they will spawn over downtime, don't be so paranoid as to think ccp would want to do all that processing in the middle of a huge fleet fight :P
Inipinipocoloco	Posted - 2010.11.11 02:55:00 - [289] mica i know noone in nullsec that pays for their account with money - all plex ^^ so who do you think pays they real cash? the cash that makes the hamsters run and pays the ccp guys ? the cash that makes the sandbox possible ? i say dont mess with the carebears, they pay for all of us 8) give them lvl 6 7 and 8 missions in highsec if that makes them happy 8) and keep them happy 23,5/7
Axon Atom	Posted - 2010.11.11 03:02:00 - [290] Originally by: Inipinipocoloco thats a important point - what does ccp expect if an incursion hit motsu ? 900 player singing the happy happy joy joy song ? I think they are expecting them to cry, get higher heartbeat, and to freak out. which is a good thing

Mynxee	Posted - 2010.11.11 03:03:00 - [291] Originally by: HeliosGal well something to lure the carebears around - more direct high sec to null and low sec wormholes would be a great way to move players around I doubt that would do it, considering how they feel about low sec. Life In Low Sec
Apollo Gabriel Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2010.11.11 03:05:00 - [292] Ok, I've now read all 10 pages ... To those who dislike/hate Empire is NOT sandbox. If sec status was dynamic, based on ratting, pvp, etc then that would be more sandbox. NPC stations with repair facilities in nearly every empire system is NOT sandbox. Missions you KNOW you will WIN is NOT sandbox. These Incursions are NOT sandbox, how you respond to them is however. There are not supposed to be any safe places in eve unless the players make them so. This concept is finally being move to low sec and empire. Personally I would love a few more changes while they're at it: Make all NPC corp members able to respond to theft, pvp, etc. The empire corps are supposed to be powerful, let them. Allow Players corps to then war dec the NPC corps. Allow Sansha to take over systems and have sec status fluctuate throughout the constellation. Next allow sec status to fluctuate everywhere, have player run "deputies" or law of the area, and slowly work to get rid of concord. You REALLY want sandbox? No NPC stations, targetable stargates, let's be able to burn it all down. Here what happens? oh I need to mission somewhere else, because eve isn't static. Man up, Apollo =============================== \|\| Don't let the Trolls keep you from your goals. \|\| ===============================
Rabbit994 Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.11.11 03:11:00 - [293] CCP are you aware by cutting resists in half, logistics are getting a big slap in face? Logistics work on resists for both personal defense and to make remote repping more effective and you are screwing that up horribly.
Hex'Caliber Gallente	Posted - 2010.11.11 03:13:00 - [294] In its current guise, this is never going to work, guaranteed. Another guarantee, it will cost ccp a large number of lost accounts, this is a game mechanic that will negatively affect everyone in a region, while only a small percentage will benefit for the final kill, are you kidding me? Honestly GTFO ccp, given the potential bpo rewards, this is going to be camped by big corps and big alliances only, smaller operations are going to be **ed over royally with no chance to compete. The larger corps will have one gang fighting the incursion and another killing anyone else who tries to intervene so they can hog the bpo and rewards at the end; anyone who believes otherwise has all the common sense of a sand flea. Only a half-arsed *wit could come up with such a hapless idea and believe it could work, punish everyone, but only reward a select few for the inconvenience. Trying to force players to do anything in a "sand box" is always a bad idea anyway; seriously ccp, who the let the tea lady at this drawing board. Kill off all agents, their missions, and high sec and have done with it already, instead of all this ing about through the backdoor, because it makes you look like clueless ing idiots. You have been trying for years and it does not work, high sec and mission running are still the highest populated areas of eve. Decide one way or the other, either you want high sec, mission running, and the pve content provided therein or get the ** rid of it; dangling a carrot for that section of the mmo community, and there after hitting them with increasingly ridiculous sticks to force them into play styles that donÆt appeal is pathetic. The bottom line, those that want to get involved in low/null and pvp are already doing so, those that don't, aren't; accept it and move on, ffs. Regards HexCaliber Man kinds greatest Strength and greatest weakness is HOPE
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2010.11.11 03:23:00 - [295] Originally by: MotherMoon PEOPLE ARE NOT SAND. That rather beautifully sums up my thoughts on this. Sand is creating new situations people can exploit or leverage. Sand is shaking **** up and seeing how the intelligent and the devious deal with it. Hell, I wish they'd implement more wormhole-like system-wide effects like this. It's the closes thing EVE has to terrain.
Inipinipocoloco	Posted - 2010.11.11 03:23:00 - [296] honestly i dont get the probs so many of you peeps have with agents and mission running ? carebears make this game possible so why ruin the game for them ^^ unless you are not able to kill pvp oriented players that is ^^ then of course i would understand why u want to force carebears in low/null ^^
Apollo Gabriel Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel	Posted - 2010.11.11 03:36:00 - [297] Originally by: Inipinipocoloco honestly i dont get the probs so many of you peeps have with agents and mission running ? carebears make this game possible so why ruin the game for them ^^ unless you are not able to kill pvp oriented players that is ^^ then of course i would understand why u want to force carebears in low/null ^^ The game isn't being ruined for carebears. They can still mission, but they may have to leave the system they are in. Why do you think they have a ruined game? Everyone makes this game possible. =============================== \|\| Don't let the Trolls keep you from your goals. \|\| ===============================
Inipinipocoloco	Posted - 2010.11.11 03:38:00 - [298] the carebear is a very territorial bear and does not like changes to its lifestyle - most of them just loggoffski when a incursion hits their most loved agent if the incursion stays on long enough u just risk them to never longonski anymore 8) why take that risk?
Pitty Hammerfist	Posted - 2010.11.11 03:40:00 - [299] Originally by: Dmoney3788 I haven't seen CCP address the ninja looting issue. Unless the acceleration gates block ships with cloaks fit, you can bet that there will be a number of cloaky ships in the final site, attempting to scoop the loot and in the end rewarding the stealthy pirate over the actual group that ran the site. Thats easy to address, just give the leader of the fleet an expedition entry in his journal that leads to the loot spot.
Garheed	Posted - 2010.11.11 03:42:00 - [300] Damage is being lowered. Armor/shields/resists are also being lowered, so that for pvp's sake we don't have a situation of all tank, no gank. This leaves me with a question: Am I right in thinking this change will bring speed-tanking back to the forefront? It seems that out of all the reductions being done to ship output, nothing is going to impact ship speed. Since guns and defenses alike will be neutered, doesn't this mean that pvp during the Sansha incursions will heavily favor faster ships?



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