Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

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In addition, systems invaded by Sanshas will receive certain system wide effects that affect all players inside them:

+ Reduction of all shield/armor resistances
+ Reduction of turret, missile, drone and smartbomb damage
+ Jamming of cynosural fields throughout the system
+ Reduction of 50% on all NPC bounties

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Quote:

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In low-security space (and only there), there will also be a chance of receiving a blueprint copy of the boss ship type itself, the Sansha supercarrier.

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Originally by: SheriffFruitfly

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"To players in the fleet that participated the most in the site in question; if there is more than one fleet in a site, others won't be paid. CONCORD only rewards the most effective capsuleers. If you are not ready to face the competition, we recommend you either merge your fleets together, or spread out to other unchecked sites."

Does this mean that logis and fleet command ships are pretty much screwn for rewards?

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Quote:

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So be prepared: Incursions are full war assaults, treat them as such.

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Originally by: Jaggins

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Do 0.0 Incursions also drop the Supercarrier BPO, or is it only low-sec?

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Originally by: Yuda Mann

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Originally by: SheriffFruitfly

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"To players in the fleet that participated the most in the site in question; if there is more than one fleet in a site, others won't be paid. CONCORD only rewards the most effective capsuleers. If you are not ready to face the competition, we recommend you either merge your fleets together, or spread out to other unchecked sites."

Does this mean that logis and fleet command ships are pretty much screwn for rewards?

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Why wouldn't you put your logis in your fleet? How can command ships pass bonuses if they're not in a fleet?

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Originally by: Sertan Deras

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Edited by: Sertan Deras on 10/11/2010 16:01:00
CCP: Forcing players to deal with NPC incursions they couldn't care less about (because we have real players to fight, you see) in space they pay for.

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Originally by: Jack bubu

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Cant wait for the carebear tears this will produce

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Originally by: Jaggins

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Do 0.0 Incursions also drop the Supercarrier BPO, or is it only low-sec?

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Originally by: Karl Axelman

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Liking the new content, but would like some clarification ...

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

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In addition, systems invaded by Sanshas will receive certain system wide effects that affect all players inside them:

+ Reduction of all shield/armor resistances
+ Reduction of turret, missile, drone and smartbomb damage
+ Jamming of cynosural fields throughout the system
+ Reduction of 50% on all NPC bounties

---

Say I'm running a mission when an Incursion event strikes, will I have to clear the incursion site to return my ship to full power to be able to finish the mission?

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Originally by: Wollari

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Will the Global Incursion Report be available via API? So People like me can show the incursion and their (public) process on out-of-game map pages? That would be nice along with some other map/sov related api udpates :-)

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Originally by: SheriffFruitfly

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Uh.... the question was whether or not what logi/commandships do (hint: not dps) counts as "participation" to the mechanic that ccp made for rewards distribution.

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Originally by: Sertan Deras

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CCP: Forcing players to deal with NPC incursions they couldn't care less about (because we have real players to fight, you see) in space they pay for.

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Originally by: Jaggins

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Do 0.0 Incursions also drop the Supercarrier BPO, or is it only low-sec?

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Originally by: SheriffFruitfly

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Originally by: Yuda Mann

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Why wouldn't you put your logis in your fleet? How can command ships pass bonuses if they're not in a fleet?

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Uh.... the question was whether or not what logi/commandships do (hint: not dps) counts as "participation" to the mechanic that ccp made for rewards distribution.

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Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

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Please also note that, - besides the fact that attempting to solo an incursion is a very, very bad idea - the rewards themselves are designed for groups and based on site objectives. The NPCs themselves have no bounty, no loot, and very little salvage as we wanted players to focus on the actual encounters. Site rewards are paid as follows:

• To actual combat ships: no pods, shuttles or cloaked vessels


• To players who are inside the site when it is completed


• To players in the fleet that participated the most in the site in question; if there is more than one fleet in a site, others won't be paid. CONCORD only rewards the most effective capsuleers. If you are not ready to face the competition, we recommend you either merge your fleets together, or spread out to other unchecked sites.

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: Karl Axelman

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Liking the new content, but would like some clarification ...

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

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In addition, systems invaded by Sanshas will receive certain system wide effects that affect all players inside them:

+ Reduction of all shield/armor resistances
+ Reduction of turret, missile, drone and smartbomb damage
+ Jamming of cynosural fields throughout the system
+ Reduction of 50% on all NPC bounties

---

Say I'm running a mission when an Incursion event strikes, will I have to clear the incursion site to return my ship to full power to be able to finish the mission?

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This is incredibly important. If the effect is system-wide, it'll sway the outcome of PvP and screw up people's mission-running or ratting.

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Originally by: Mashie Saldana

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Will we get a security gain from shooting these NPCs? Considering nothing else is provided by killing them I hope they won't give a security boost either.

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Originally by: Jack bubu

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Originally by: Nyphur

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This is incredibly important. If the effect is system-wide, it'll sway the outcome of PvP and screw up people's mission-running or ratting.

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wich is the whole point of it?

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Originally by: TeaDaze

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Originally by: Mashie Saldana

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Will we get a security gain from shooting these NPCs? Considering nothing else is provided by killing them I hope they won't give a security boost either.

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AFAIK (and sadly for the -10 folks) you'll gain security status for shooting these NPCs.

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Originally by: Nyphur

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It's definitely intended as far as mission-running and ratting are concerned, and it could be very interesting. But is an incursion in progress is going to mess with PvP? Or are damage and resists dropped by a comparable amount to retain balance?

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Originally by: Gogela

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Originally by: Sertan Deras

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CCP: Forcing players to deal with NPC incursions they couldn't care less about (because we have real players to fight, you see) in space they pay for.

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That sounds like Empire NPC corp indy-alt talk. Why do so many people feel the need to cry every time CCP tries to make a few waves? If you fear the boat rocking, you can always live in a nice out-of-the-way 1.0 sec system.

I say bring the waves, CCP. Incursions are a good idea :) Thanks.

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Originally by: Daedalus II

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However if that being the case one can ask oneself, why put effort into an armor and firepower-reducing mechanism to begin with?
If all the NPCs are changed to sansha NPCs and all PvP are reduced equally on damage and defence, then why not keep the normal damage and defence and instead give the sancha NPCs more HP and firepower? It's only between players and NPCs (who are all sansha anyway) it would matter!

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Originally by: Daedalus II

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Originally by: Nyphur

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It's definitely intended as far as mission-running and ratting are concerned, and it could be very interesting. But is an incursion in progress is going to mess with PvP? Or are damage and resists dropped by a comparable amount to retain balance?

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I obviously don't know but it would seem logical that both values are dropped the same amount.

However if that being the case one can ask oneself, why put effort into an armor and firepower-reducing mechanism to begin with?
If all the NPCs are changed to sansha NPCs and all PvP are reduced equally on damage and defence, then why not keep the normal damage and defence and instead give the sancha NPCs more HP and firepower? It's only between players and NPCs (who are all sansha anyway) it would matter!

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Originally by: Sertan Deras

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Edited by: Sertan Deras on 10/11/2010 16:01:00
CCP: Forcing players to deal with NPC incursions they couldn't care less about (because we have real players to fight, you see) in space they pay for.

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Quote:

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Of course, all of the above is absolutely open for anybody to participate. No matter where or when an incursion occurs, there will be no player number restrictions, (although there are some mandated ship class requirements on certain sites).

That means you will be totally free to engage each other at will in circumstances that would normally allow it, or to tackle an incursion as you see fit. Be careful however, as NPCs do not know discrimination: they most likely will change targets to any newcomers, so plunder these sites for juicy player targets at your own risk.

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Originally by: Tamahra

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it sounds like we can shooty each other in incursion sites, even in high sec:

Quote:

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That means you will be totally free to engage each other at will in circumstances that would normally allow it, or to tackle an incursion as you see fit. Be careful however, as NPCs do not know discrimination: they most likely will change targets to any newcomers, so plunder these sites for juicy player targets at your own risk.

---

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Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

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Please also note that, - besides the fact that attempting to solo an incursion is a very, very bad idea - the rewards themselves are designed for groups and based on site objectives. The NPCs themselves have no bounty, no loot, and very little salvage as we wanted players to focus on the actual encounters. Site rewards are paid as follows:

• To actual combat ships: no pods, shuttles or cloaked vessels


• To players who are inside the site when it is completed


• To players in the fleet that participated the most in the site in question; if there is more than one fleet in a site, others won't be paid. CONCORD only rewards the most effective capsuleers. If you are not ready to face the competition, we recommend you either merge your fleets together, or spread out to other unchecked sites.

---

Originally by: Sertan Deras

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Edited by: Sertan Deras on 10/11/2010 16:01:00
CCP: Forcing players to deal with NPC incursions they couldn't care less about (because we have real players to fight, you see) in space they pay for.

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Originally by: Faloe

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Great, so now 0.0 residents have to put up with a scheduled ******ation of their space with some WH effects and public advertising slapped on for the lols. This should end well. Seasonal medal accomplishments coming up soon I imagine?

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Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

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Regarding the system jamming effect, it will allow covert cynos, but not jump bridges.

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Originally by: Gogela

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Originally by: Sertan Deras

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CCP: Forcing players to deal with NPC incursions they couldn't care less about (because we have real players to fight, you see) in space they pay for.

---

That sounds like Empire NPC corp indy-alt talk. Why do so many people feel the need to cry every time CCP tries to make a few waves? If you fear the boat rocking, you can always live in a nice out-of-the-way 1.0 sec system.

I say bring the waves, CCP. Incursions are a good idea :) Thanks.

---

Originally by: Daedalus II

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Originally by: Faloe

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Great, so now 0.0 residents have to put up with a scheduled ******ation of their space with some WH effects and public advertising slapped on for the lols. This should end well. Seasonal medal accomplishments coming up soon I imagine?

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Oh dear me, you have to actually defend your 0.0 space?!? That has never happened before in the history of EVE!

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Quote:

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you neanderthal,

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Quote:

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Forcing people to participate in scripted raid encounters, WoW-style, is not "emergent player driven content". Nor is it a sandbox.

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Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

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Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 10/11/2010 16:41:52
System effects will affect both ship damage and resistances by the same amount while being synced up together when they are modified by the influence. This should prevent situations where two player fleets can't do much but throw pebbles at each other due to their damage capabilities being greatly reduced compared to their defense.

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Originally by: Mykael Skychild

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So we can SBU and TCU a system while other people are handling the Incursion because they won't be able to do much to us?

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: Mykael Skychild

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So we can SBU and TCU a system while other people are handling the Incursion because they won't be able to do much to us?

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No, he said that resists and damage are reduced by the same amount to prevent exactly this from happening.

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Quote:

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This should prevent situations where two player fleets can't do much but throw pebbles at each other due to their damage capabilities being greatly reduced compared to their defense.

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Quote:

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Finally, the last Sansha boss in each incursion will also drop Sansha sub-capital ship blueprint copies

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Originally by: Mykael Skychild

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Quote:

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This should prevent situations where two player fleets can't do much but throw pebbles at each other due to their damage capabilities being greatly reduced compared to their defense.

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This means that fleets will have their damage nerfed. All we have to do is take some haulers in, drop some SBUs and the (former) owners of that system will not be able to jump caps in to destroy the SBUs or TCU, and they will do anemic damage against them with their subcap fleet.

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• I do not understand the reason for the resistance/damage reduction.


• How many incursions will happen at the same time and is there an immediate new incursion in a different constellation?


• How many sites (lets say the hard ones) have to be finished before the endboss appears?

Originally by: Faolan Fortune

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Looks really awesome, but nothing at all for Nation supporters except I guess cheaper Sansha ships.

Still, will be cool to see

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: Mykael Skychild

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Quote:

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This should prevent situations where two player fleets can't do much but throw pebbles at each other due to their damage capabilities being greatly reduced compared to their defense.

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This means that fleets will have their damage nerfed. All we have to do is take some haulers in, drop some SBUs and the (former) owners of that system will not be able to jump caps in to destroy the SBUs or TCU, and they will do anemic damage against them with their subcap fleet.

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Re-bolded the important part.

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Originally by: CCP Incognito

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PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)

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Originally by: Mashie Saldana

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Originally by: TeaDaze

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Originally by: Mashie Saldana

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Will we get a security gain from shooting these NPCs? Considering nothing else is provided by killing them I hope they won't give a security boost either.

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AFAIK (and sadly for the -10 folks) you'll gain security status for shooting these NPCs.

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I really hope CCP will reconsider this.

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Originally by: CCP Soundwave

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Originally by: Mynxee

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Is shooting at these NPCs going to give a sec status gain?

Will players be able to aid the NPCs directly?

Not really a PVE fan but am lookin forward to the potential collateral profit opportunities the incursion events might provide.

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They should be behave like most existing NPCs, so there should be a sec status gain. There are no mechanics to take sides in currently, but on the upside, this should provide you with a target rich environment.

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Originally by: Kanuo Ashkeron

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I think the point of Skychild was, that a SBU has the same EHP as before the incursion, but the fleet trying to destroy it has less DPS (because of damage nerf while incursion and no caps).

Edit: However, if nothing bad happens, SBU armor and shield resistances should also be affected by system affects.

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Originally by: Nyphur

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I understand that drone and navy NPCs mean that the bounty penalty isn't enough to discourage mission-runners. But surely there's a more elegant and effective way to discourage them than putting them at significant risk of death.

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Originally by: Kali Zero

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Warp core stabilizers are like condoms. Nice and safe, but they make it a little less fun for everyone involved.

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Originally by: Sloany1979

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Is the damage and resistance reduction going to affect those of us that are fighting in the sansha incursions? Or is it affecting those who don't take part?

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Originally by: Sloany1979

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Is the damage and resistance reduction going to affect those of us that are fighting in the sansha incursions? Or is it affecting those who don't take part?

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Originally by: Joe SMASH

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Does the supercarrier BPC req sov to build (ie a CSAA)?

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Originally by: Tippia

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So, for the devs: Does this mean that it is, indeed, a supercarrier, and not a new mothership class as has previously been hinted at? Or did you just slip up and call it an SC out of habit?

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Quote:

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Loyalty points gained in incursions can be spent to buy named capital module blueprint copies and new implant variations from any CONCORD store.

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Originally by: Dmoney3788

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What ships are commonly called supercarriers and motherships? Oh you know, the Nyx, Hel, Aeon and Wyvern. I think its safe to say that the sansha supercarrier they referred to falls into the same class as the aforementioned ships, and not some half baked idea that CCP hasn't officially supported.

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Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

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In addition, systems invaded by Sanshas will receive certain system wide effects that affect all players inside them:

+ Reduction of all shield/armor resistances
+ Reduction of turret, missile, drone and smartbomb damage
+ Jamming of cynosural fields throughout the system
+ Reduction of 50% on all NPC bounties

The purpose of such modifications is to provide a dynamic, opportunity-rich environment that breaks the routine and offers new possibilities. Capital ships won't be able to jump in low and null-security space, leveling the fields between small corporations and organized alliances; gate camps discourage players to block traffic there, and instead motivate them to look for prey inside the incursion sites themselves, where they also can be shot by the NPCs; NPC bounty reductions provides an incentive for players to gather arms, team up, and face the threat.

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Originally by: Gogela

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Originally by: Sertan Deras

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CCP: Forcing players to deal with NPC incursions they couldn't care less about (because we have real players to fight, you see) in space they pay for.

---

That sounds like Empire NPC corp indy-alt talk. Why do so many people feel the need to cry every time CCP tries to make a few waves? If you fear the boat rocking, you can always live in a nice out-of-the-way 1.0 sec system.

I say bring the waves, CCP. Incursions are a good idea :) Thanks.

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Originally by: Tippia

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Originally by: Dmoney3788

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What ships are commonly called supercarriers and motherships? Oh you know, the Nyx, Hel, Aeon and Wyvern. I think its safe to say that the sansha supercarrier they referred to falls into the same class as the aforementioned ships, and not some half baked idea that CCP hasn't officially supported.

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No. They're just called supercarriers. They were called motherships until CCP decided that this didn't really described the role they had in mind for them, and that they wanted to have that name in store for a different class of ships.

Then, when they first started to talk about the Incursions, they quite specifically referenced mothership BPCs being dropped. Since this happened shortly after them saying that they wanted to use that term for a special class of ships, it was never clear whether they meant these Sansha ships to belong to a new class or if they had just misspoken.

That's why I'm asking: which part was incorrect ù CCP calling them motherships before, or their calling them supercarriers now?

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Quote:

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Hit Point boost: æSuper' capitals they shall now be. There's no point dishing out the punishment if you can't take it.

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Edited by: Nyphur on 10/11/2010 17:11:45

You want to interrupt people's current activity while the incursion is in progress, and the more I think about that idea the more I warm to it. It sounds great! Much more interesting than systems being static with not much ever going on. I'd love to see more stuff like this! What I have a problem with is the method used to disrupt people's activity. The system-wide effect has the following consequences for normal gameplay:

1) Reduction of all shield/armor resistances
2) Reduction of turret, missile, drone and smartbomb damage
3) Jamming of cynosural fields throughout the system
4) Reduction of 50% on all NPC bounties

#4 will reduce income from missions and ratting by 50% while an incursion is in progress, encouraging pilots to tackle the scenario or hide out until it's over. This is a good idea.

#3 prevents pilots from bringing a fleet of capships into an incursion constellation, which is good for pilots wanting to take part in lowsec as it helps stop the nullsec alliances from pirating the incursion areas. It also gives the added boost that capitals already in the system can be used, encouraging people to stake a claim to their lowsec home and defend it. These are all good things, and I can see it working out quite well.

#1 and #2 might discourage pilots with sense from their everyday activities. What it will definitely do is kill oblivious mission-runners, which as I understand it make up a not-so-insubstantial portion of the playerbase. These are people who bring only enough tank to handle a mission. Although they'll get a warning that an incursion is about to happen, you can bet there will be some tears from mission-runners when this happens. Since the effect is balanced to ensure PvP remains unchanged, and the local belt rats are replaced with new Sansha NPCs during an incursion, the only difference between buffing the Sansha NPCs and penalising players is that it affects mission-runners and explorers. Literally, there are no other side-effects of the resistance and damage penalties.

So why not use a more elegant solution for discouraging or stopping mission-running during an incursion? If the belt NPCs flee during an incursion, why not do something similar for missions? Maybe despawn mission complexes at the start of an incursion and prevent new ones from spawning until after it? Or maybe just block warps to missions during the incursion? Are these ideas not technically feasible for some reason? I understand that drone and navy NPCs mean that the bounty penalty isn't enough to discourage mission-runners. But surely there's a more elegant and effective way to discourage them than putting them at significant risk of death.

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Originally by: CCP Lemur

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THIS IS GOD: ...
IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE REQUESTS I'M AVAILABLE SUNDAY FROM 10:30 TO 12:00 TO RECEIVE YOUR PRAYERS.

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Originally by: egegergergsdgedgege

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Hello,
I have only one concern:

Do those scripted events really fit into eve where everything is suposed to be unscripted?



ege

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Originally by: Shandir

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I do hope that as some people guess, the SC/MS BPC drops are actually low-sec *only*, and not null+low

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Originally by: DevBlog

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In low-security space (and only there), there will also be a chance of receiving a blueprint copy of the boss ship type itself, the Sansha supercarrier.

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Originally by: Sertan Deras

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Originally by: Gogela

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Originally by: Sertan Deras

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CCP: Forcing players to deal with NPC incursions they couldn't care less about (because we have real players to fight, you see) in space they pay for.

---

That sounds like Empire NPC corp indy-alt talk. Why do so many people feel the need to cry every time CCP tries to make a few waves? If you fear the boat rocking, you can always live in a nice out-of-the-way 1.0 sec system.

I say bring the waves, CCP. Incursions are a good idea :) Thanks.

---

We don't need CCP to "bring the waves" you neanderthal, we do that ourselves. It's called emergent player driven content, that thing CCP is supposed to be all about.

Forcing people to participate in scripted raid encounters, WoW-style, is not "emergent player driven content". Nor is it a sandbox.

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Originally by: Venkul Mul

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Effects 1 e 2 change during the invasion. I the capsuleer side is winning and destroy Sansha structures they are is reduced. So boosting basic Sansha stats (as you suggested before) or simply removing missions would not have the same effect.

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Originally by: Venkul Mul

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You should notice too that forcefully stopping missions will have a some unwanted secondary effect:
1) loss of standing for failed missions
2) loss of the isk given to the agent as a security for some mission;
3) if the effect is applied as soon as you enter one of the invaded system you could lose a mission simply because your route pass through a invaded system.

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Originally by: Knug LiDi

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Quote:

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you neanderthal,

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Unnecessary.

Quote:

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Forcing people to participate in scripted raid encounters, WoW-style, is not "emergent player driven content". Nor is it a sandbox.

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Then don't participate. CCP is attempting to increase the richness of the sandbox, not take it away from you. Look at it this way, if an incursion happens deep within your controlled space, who will benefit from it? It will 1) increase chance of PVP within your boundary areas - so more pew pew 2) give your back-benchers and indy folks a chance to man up to deal with a local problem a bit rougher than rogue drones or angels. If it screws with logistics routes - change them or if you don't want to change the routes, deal with the incursion. Static game play in controlled 0.0 space is a bad thing, IMHO.


From the way this is set up you cannot not participate. If the Sanshas invade, you're stuck until you get rid of them.

I see this as being fairly exploitable, as it only locks down the systems that are invaded. This means if an enemy Alliance's territory gets hit, you form up your own ops to hit the areas they can no longer defend because of it, and pretty much avoid the Sansha's mess.

The Highsec ones are going to be dominated by major corporations. No way you could do these with pick-up groups, simply because if you did a pickup fleet half of them wouldn't know which end the bang comes out of, and the other half would be griefers looking for whatever they could do to to PK in high sec retribution free.

For me all this means I'll just have to check the regional invasion statuses when I log on, and if any are in my area, I set long skills and log off for the day. There's no way a pickup fleet is going to take one of these things, and there's equally no way I'm going to throw even a BC down the drain on something I'm not getting anything out of. A Destroyer maybe, but nothing bigger, that's for certain.

This is an extremely mercenary game. If the risk/reward isn't in my favor, I'm not touching it.

Harry Voyager

Originally by: Dmoney3788

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I'm sorry, I missed the part where they changed the name because they're reserving the name for an unannounced new class of ships.

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Quote:

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I've seen no mention of a supposed new mothership class anywhere supported by CCP, only player ideas. And yes, even though the official name of motherships has changed, people still refer to them as motherships, so its not out of the question for CCP to do the same.

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Originally by: Sertan Deras

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Originally by: Daedalus II

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Originally by: Faloe

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Great, so now 0.0 residents have to put up with a scheduled ******ation of their space with some WH effects and public advertising slapped on for the lols. This should end well. Seasonal medal accomplishments coming up soon I imagine?

---

Oh dear me, you have to actually defend your 0.0 space?!? That has never happened before in the history of EVE!

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Oh dear me, we have to actually defend our 0.0 space from stupid scripted NPC raid encounters that are not fun, emergent or meaningful at all in the grand scope of things.

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Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

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Regarding the system jamming effect, it will allow covert cynos, but not jump bridges.

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Originally by: dannyBOy16437

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Firstly people whine that CCP forces them into PvP situations.

Now people are wining about being forced into PvE situations.

Make your mind up.

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Originally by: Tamahra

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it sounds like we can shooty each other in incursion sites, even in high sec:

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Originally by: Sertan Deras

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Oh dear me, we have to actually defend our 0.0 space from stupid scripted NPC raid encounters that are not fun, emergent or meaningful at all in the grand scope of things.

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: Mykael Skychild

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So we can SBU and TCU a system while other people are handling the Incursion because they won't be able to do much to us?

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No, he said that resists and damage are reduced by the same amount to prevent exactly this from happening.

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Originally by: Faffywaffy

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How about also boosting the ships in question to make it worthwhile? Pre-nerf Phantasm BPCs used to sell for 200mil - now they're 80mil. The Succubus is terrible and uninteresting compared to a Dramiel, Daredevil or even Cruor. Nightmare is decent, but also not in the Machariel category.

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Originally by: Bagehi

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I don't think you understand how this works. Dropping these things is fairly easy with a fairly small cloaky fleet. Blowing them up without capitals is a huge chore (especially with the dps nerfed). Decreasing resistances doesn't matter too much when you are talking about something without resists and 10m HP to chew through.

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: Venkul Mul

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Effects 1 e 2 change during the invasion. I the capsuleer side is winning and destroy Sansha structures they are is reduced. So boosting basic Sansha stats (as you suggested before) or simply removing missions would not have the same effect.

---

Now THAT is interesting, and definitely a fact left out of the devblog. Remember, however, that Sleeper NPCs in wormholes are buffed and penalised by the system-wide benefits. So Sansha ships will be affected too, meaning that as the effect is reduced players will see absolutely no benefit when fighting Sanshas. At the same time as player damage and resists go up, Sansha damage and resists rise to match.

If the system has been modified to NOT include Sanshas in the penalising effect, then surely it could be potentially be implemented in reverse -- with a system-wide effect that only buffs Sanshas?

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Originally by: Mashie Saldana

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If people ignore the warnings of an impeding invasion they will simply die.

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Originally by: Tippia

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They called them motherships in the early interviews on Incursion, and since it was their decision to no longer call ships "motherships" until they figured out a class that deserved the name, they really should avoid it for official PR useà

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Originally by: Harry Voyager

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From the way this is set up you cannot not participate. If the Sanshas invade, you're stuck until you get rid of them.

I see this as being fairly exploitable, as it only locks down the systems that are invaded. This means if an enemy Alliance's territory gets hit, you form up your own ops to hit the areas they can no longer defend because of it, and pretty much avoid the Sansha's mess.

The Highsec ones are going to be dominated by major corporations. No way you could do these with pick-up groups, simply because if you did a pickup fleet half of them wouldn't know which end the bang comes out of, and the other half would be griefers looking for whatever they could do to to PK in high sec retribution free.

For me all this means I'll just have to check the regional invasion statuses when I log on, and if any are in my area, I set long skills and log off for the day. There's no way a pickup fleet is going to take one of these things, and there's equally no way I'm going to throw even a BC down the drain on something I'm not getting anything out of. A Destroyer maybe, but nothing bigger, that's for certain.

This is an extremely mercenary game. If the risk/reward isn't in my favor, I'm not touching it.

Harry Voyager

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Originally by: Nyphur

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That's exactly the point I'm making. It's far more problematic for mission-runners who don't understand what an incursion is to die inexplicably than it is for them to get a popup saying "You can't take this mission during a Sansha incursion". If someone logs in and runs a mission without noticing there's an invasion going on, should they really be at significant risk of being killed?

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Originally by: Dmoney3788

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They also said that upgraded systems would have their hidden belts respawn daily, which was a complete farce as it turns out. All things are subject to change in dev blogs, note that is called a blog and is not an official news story like on the front page.

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Originally by: Mashie Saldana

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Will we get a security gain from shooting these NPCs? Considering nothing else is provided by killing them I hope they won't give a security boost either.

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Originally by: Hakaru Ishiwara

---

Lastly, the leveling of the playing field between different sized corporations is laughable. A 100 pilot corp could just as easily drop a group of carriers on top of an NPC instance as could a 1000 pilot alliance. It is all about the numbers of pilots who are available in the proper ships at a given point in time. I normally stay well away from this question, but I must ask: Do you guys even play your own game?

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Originally by: Dev Blog

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Jamming of cynosural fields throughout the system

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Originally by: Tippia

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Originally by: Dmoney3788

---

They also said that upgraded systems would have their hidden belts respawn daily, which was a complete farce as it turns out. All things are subject to change in dev blogs, note that is called a blog and is not an official news story like on the front page.

---

àwhich is why I'm asking which part was misstated.

See now?

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Originally by: Mynxee

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Originally by: Mashie Saldana

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Originally by: TeaDaze

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Originally by: Mashie Saldana

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Will we get a security gain from shooting these NPCs? Considering nothing else is provided by killing them I hope they won't give a security boost either.

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AFAIK (and sadly for the -10 folks) you'll gain security status for shooting these NPCs.

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I really hope CCP will reconsider this.

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We made the point for no sec status gain rather strongly at both the June Summit and October Stakeholder Meeting. However, back in September, Soundwave answered my question directly in a way that makes it sound like sec status gains are going to be given from shooting these NPCs (quoted below).

Originally by: CCP Soundwave

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Originally by: Mynxee

---

Is shooting at these NPCs going to give a sec status gain?

Will players be able to aid the NPCs directly?

Not really a PVE fan but am lookin forward to the potential collateral profit opportunities the incursion events might provide.

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They should be behave like most existing NPCs, so there should be a sec status gain. There are no mechanics to take sides in currently, but on the upside, this should provide you with a target rich environment.

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From a role-playing point of view it is only logic. Working for the army or the navy in time of war is one one of the time honored system to recover from troubles with the law.

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Originally by: Cannibal Girl

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I don't like the fleet aspect of paying out rewards. Everyone in the site should get a share, not just the top fleet. This just opens up another form of griefing, where players try to outdo each other to steal rewards, almost like kill stealing and camp stealing in Everquest and those other games.

If I'm in a small corp and our fleet keeps getting outdone by bigger fleets, and so doesn't get rewards, what will be the point in participating? That will make Incursion add frustration to Eve, rather than fun, for many of the players who are probably looking forward to this the most. The little guys in highsec.

Also, without the fleet requirement, it'll be way easier to get involved in an Incursion, for those of us who are independants. One of the great things about Eve PVE has always been that it's easy to jump into solo. It's really the one detail where Eve's PVE rises above that of other games.

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Originally by: WizWaz

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Bigger fleet == gets reward?

/me waits for goonswarm to bring a 1000 man blob to every incursion to auto-hijack the loot....

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Originally by: WizWaz

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Bigger fleet == gets reward?

/me waits for goonswarm to bring a 1000 man blob to every incursion to auto-hijack the loot....

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Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

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Depending on the player numbers in the most contributing fleet. A ratio is calculated from the total number of active fleet players in the site and how many players this site is from. The closer, the better.

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Originally by: Dev blog

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The purpose of such modifications is to provide a dynamic, opportunity-rich environment that breaks the routine and offers new possibilities.

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Originally by: Dev blog

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Capital ships won't be able to jump in low and null-security space, leveling the fields between small corporations and organized alliances

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Originally by: Dev blog

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gate camps discourage players to block traffic there, and instead motivate them to look for prey inside the incursion sites themselves

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Originally by: Dev blog

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http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/2010/Incursion_journal_globalreport.jpg

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Originally by: Dev blog

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Site rewards are paid as follows:

• To players who are inside the site when it is completed

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Originally by: Dev blog

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Depending on the player numbers in the most contributing fleet. A ratio is calculated from the total number of active fleet players in the site and how many players this site is from. The closer, the better.

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Originally by: Dev blog

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http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/2010/Incursion_journal_encounterreport.jpg

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Originally by: Dev blog

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Loyalty points gained in incursions can be spent to buy named capital module blueprint copies and new implant variations from any CONCORD store. Alternatively, they can also be changed into any empire corporation loyalty point, at a certain exchange rate. Pirate corporations are excluded, however.

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Originally by: Dev blog

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Speaking of the NPCs, while we adopted a "wolf pack" approach for the Sleepers in Apocrypha, we chose to create very specialized units for this feature, inspired from players setups. We also improved the Sleeper AI to match their new capabilities. As such you will face NPC equivalent of logistics, stealth bombers, remote spider-repairing battleships, interceptors, command ships, EW platforms, and more.

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Originally by: Bagehi

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Originally by: dannyBOy16437

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Firstly people whine that CCP forces them into PvP situations.

Now people are wining about being forced into PvE situations.

Make your mind up.

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Welcome to Eve, a non-homogeneous population.

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Originally by: Doctero

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Originally by: WizWaz

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Bigger fleet == gets reward?

/me waits for goonswarm to bring a 1000 man blob to every incursion to auto-hijack the loot....

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Wrong:

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

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Depending on the player numbers in the most contributing fleet. A ratio is calculated from the total number of active fleet players in the site and how many players this site is from. The closer, the better.

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The fleet with the RIGHT SIZE that does the best job wins the cake.

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Originally by: Abdiel Kavash

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Originally by: Dev blog

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Depending on the player numbers in the most contributing fleet. A ratio is calculated from the total number of active fleet players in the site and how many players this site is from. The closer, the better.

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...at the moment of site completion, or cummulated over time? What is to prevent me from bringing in a 250 man fleet, blitzing the site, and kick all but 20-40 members before the last NPC is killed to get full rewards?

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Originally by: Matalino

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...

Originally by: Hakaru Ishiwara

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Lastly, the leveling of the playing field between different sized corporations is laughable. A 100 pilot corp could just as easily drop a group of carriers on top of an NPC instance as could a 1000 pilot alliance. It is all about the numbers of pilots who are available in the proper ships at a given point in time. I normally stay well away from this question, but I must ask: Do you guys even play your own game?

---

Except for the part about...

Originally by: Dev Blog

---

Jamming of cynosural fields throughout the system

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Unless the capital ships were already in the system, they aren't getting in. Of course large corps can still form up larger sub-capital blobs. I don't know what advantage smaller corps are supposed to gain during an incursion.

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Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

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Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 10/11/2010 16:41:52
System effects will affect both ship damage and resistances by the same amount while being synced up together when they are modified by the influence. This should prevent situations where two player fleets can't do much but throw pebbles at each other due to their damage capabilities being greatly reduced compared to their defense.

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Quote:

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Sansha gatecamps:

---

Quote:

---

cyno jamming

---

Quote:

---

NPCs firing on everyone equally

---

Quote:

---

Depending on the player numbers in the most contributing fleet. A ratio is calculated from the total number of active fleet players in the site and how many players this site is from. The closer, the better.

---

Originally by: Infinion

---

Quote:

---

Depending on the player numbers in the most contributing fleet. A ratio is calculated from the total number of active fleet players in the site and how many players this site is from. The closer, the better.

---

Say that I am doing an Assault incursion which requires 10-20 players to run. According to the incursion journal encounter report graph, I should always bring the maximum number of players required to run an incursion (in other words 20) for the reward to be least penalized? So to clarify your quote, the closer we are to the very maximum suggested player count, the better?

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Originally by: Merin Ryskin

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Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

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Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 10/11/2010 16:41:52
Gatecamping is a perfectly legitimate strategy, and if the NPCers want to have security in their system then they should have to provide it themselves.

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Simmons feels your pain

Quote:

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Also, you need to add a "you are about to jump into an incursion system, do you wish to proceed?" warning on all incusion systems. It's just pure bull**** to lose your ship because an incursion (which you can do absolutely nothing to prevent) spawned on your route since the last time you checked your map. It's legitimate when this death happens as a result of actions by other players, but not when it's nothing more than the random number generator saying "it's your turn to die".

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You mad, bro? Oh, and, since the entire game is an interaction of 1.s and 0's mechanics, this is just one more. Sounds like someone can't take the heat.

Quote:

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What could possibly make you think that having random* NPC events interfering with organized PvP is a good thing? Even if you insist that large corporations should not be able to bring capitals to the incursion events, there's a huge chance of this disruption making a lot of people (who have zero interest in your NPCs) very unhappy.

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...blahblah I'm mad blah.

Quote:

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Of course let's be honest here, you're giving special protection to carebears because you don't want all those mean pirates showing up and killing the players instead of the NPCs. And guess what, it's just plain stupid.

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Somebody poor poo-say hurts.

Originally by: Adunh Slavy

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Sounds mostly good except for the deal about only one fleet "winning" the reward of a site and said fleet being loosely pre defined in size. Making a distinction between group A and group B only encourages exclusivity behaviors, when it would seem to me, you'd want players to be more inclusive of strangers, to make new friends and new contacts, the bonds that keep players paying their subs.

So ... you drop an incursion in say Motsu, and the likely to emerge professional incursion chasers rush in, with their team and go to the site and do it while the locals, unused to working together, try to heard cats and get a fleet together, bickering about armour or shields.

It would seem you'd want as many players as possible to run in and shoot the rats, steal each others wrecks and promote general fun. If the only winners are "the proper fleet with the most damage" ... a lot of players couldn't be bothered with the logistics of it.

I would think, these are exactly the players you want to encourage to play with others. Don't create conditions opposed to their motives of casual fun. Their casual fun will already be disrupted by the incursion system wide effects as it is. Make it fun, not a chore.

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Originally by: Nyphur

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Originally by: Venkul Mul

---

Effects 1 e 2 change during the invasion. I the capsuleer side is winning and destroy Sansha structures they are is reduced. So boosting basic Sansha stats (as you suggested before) or simply removing missions would not have the same effect.

---

Now THAT is interesting, and definitely a fact left out of the devblog. Remember, however, that Sleeper NPCs in wormholes are buffed and penalised by the system-wide benefits. So Sansha ships will be affected too, meaning that as the effect is reduced players will see absolutely no benefit when fighting Sanshas. At the same time as player damage and resists go up, Sansha damage and resists rise to match.

If the system has been modified to NOT include Sanshas in the penalising effect, then surely it could be potentially be implemented in reverse -- with a system-wide effect that only buffs Sanshas?

---

Quote:

---

Gone shootin'
Countering the Sansha offensive and thus removing the negative effects is achieved through the control of influence. It reduces the penalties to ship resistances, damage and when sufficient influence is achieved, the final boss will appear.

---

Quote:

---

Reduction of all shield/armor resistances

---

Originally by: Tippia

---

Originally by: WizWaz

---

Bigger fleet == gets reward?

/me waits for goonswarm to bring a 1000 man blob to every incursion to auto-hijack the loot....

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àat which point the rewards will be a total of 4 ISK and a 10-pack of tourists because they failed to scale their fleet with the encounter. So that's a particularly useless way of deploying 1k ppl.

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Quote:

---

Site rewards are paid as follows:

+ To actual combat ships: no pods, shuttles or cloaked vessels

+ To players who are inside the site when it is completed

+ To players in the fleet that participated the most in the site in question; if there is more than one fleet in a site, others won't be paid. CONCORD only rewards the most effective capsuleers. If you are not ready to face the competition, we recommend you either merge your fleets together, or spread out to other unchecked sites.

+ Depending on the player numbers in the most contributing fleet. A ratio is calculated from the total number of active fleet players in the site and how many players this site is from. The closer, the better.

---

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

---

To address some good concerns:

Incursions and freezing mission activities: we prefer to encourage capsuleers to make hard decisions instead of removing missions and professions when incursions happen. By reducing NPC bounty rewards while decreasing player ship effectiveness as a whole, we create a harsh situation that needs to be dealt with - should I move to another system, stay here with increased odds, or team up with others to counter the Sansha invasion?

NPC and damage/resistance reduction: NPCs are not affected by incursion system effects, no matter if they are regular NPCs or the new Sansha ones.

Incursions and Sansha infested space: they will not appear in Stain, which is their headquarters region.

Sansha supercarrier: we need to apologize for the miscommunication about this ship class name, which created some confusion here. The ship players will be able to build from the blueprint copy is a faction version of a regular supercarrier, not a new ship class.

Site rewards: the ISK/LP numbers shown on the dev blog encounter report are per individual, not split up by fleet size. Thus, if your fleet number has a player count of 20, you would receive 25m ISK and 6k LP each.

---

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

---

Incursions and freezing mission activities: we prefer to encourage capsuleers to make hard decisions instead of removing missions and professions when incursions happen. By reducing NPC bounty rewards while decreasing player ship effectiveness as a whole, we create a harsh situation that needs to be dealt with - should I move to another system, stay here with increased odds, or team up with others to counter the Sansha invasion?

---

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

---

Incursions and freezing mission activities: we prefer to encourage capsuleers to make hard decisions instead of removing missions and professions when incursions happen. By reducing NPC bounty rewards while decreasing player ship effectiveness as a whole, we create a harsh situation that needs to be dealt with - should I move to another system, stay here with increased odds, or team up with others to counter the Sansha invasion?

---

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

---

To address some good concerns:

Incursions and freezing mission activities:

---

Originally by: Merin Ryskin

---

Stuff

---

Originally by: TeaDaze

---

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

---

Incursions and freezing mission activities: we prefer to encourage capsuleers to make hard decisions instead of removing missions and professions when incursions happen. By reducing NPC bounty rewards while decreasing player ship effectiveness as a whole, we create a harsh situation that needs to be dealt with - should I move to another system, stay here with increased odds, or team up with others to counter the Sansha invasion?

---

Encouraging players to participate is a good idea but this isn't really anything other than blackmail If the gameplay or rewards were good enough to stand on their own then people would take part without the need for all the negative system effects.

This direction worries me because it leads me to suspect that the same level of "encouragement" will be applied to get people to use Incarna Is this the start of Eve's transition to a theme park game?

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Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

---

Incursions and freezing mission activities: we prefer to encourage capsuleers to make hard decisions instead of removing missions and professions when incursions happen. By reducing NPC bounty rewards while decreasing player ship effectiveness as a whole, we create a harsh situation that needs to be dealt with - should I move to another system, stay here with increased odds, or team up with others to counter the Sansha invasion?

---

Originally by: SkinSin

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person 1: can I fleet with you to take on the sansha?
person 2: no. Go away noob.
person 1: OK will people fleet with me please.
person 3: hell no, noob.

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Originally by: Aeo IV

---

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

---

Incursions and freezing mission activities: we prefer to encourage capsuleers to make hard decisions instead of removing missions and professions when incursions happen. By reducing NPC bounty rewards while decreasing player ship effectiveness as a whole, we create a harsh situation that needs to be dealt with - should I move to another system, stay here with increased odds, or team up with others to counter the Sansha invasion?

---

Players will, for the most part, leave the system. Group pve cannot work in eve online, and here's why:

In most mmos, when there is group PVE, a dead player can be undone by a res, and a team wipe is just a matter of respawning and dealing with whatever death penalty the game forces on you. Sometimes it's an xp debt, sometimes you pay for your corpse.

Eve's not like that. If I lose my BS because a fleet screw up, it doesn't matter if I come back and fight because 25m isk isn't going to put me back into the black. (insurance helps, but still).

Here's what I predict will happen; if it's high sec, most of the players will log or leave. If it's in low sec, a handful of pirates will show up to screw any players over trying to complete it. If it's null sec, the alliance holding the space will probably remove it if they can, or ignore it.

These Incursions will likely last until they naturally expire, or if they don't, they'll last for days if not weeks.

I was somewhat looking forward to this incursion thing, but frankly the whole thing seems boring.

---

Quote:

---

Incursions are full war assaults, treat them as such.

---

Originally by: Aeo IV

---

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

---

Incursions and freezing mission activities: we prefer to encourage capsuleers to make hard decisions instead of removing missions and professions when incursions happen. By reducing NPC bounty rewards while decreasing player ship effectiveness as a whole, we create a harsh situation that needs to be dealt with - should I move to another system, stay here with increased odds, or team up with others to counter the Sansha invasion?

---

Players will, for the most part, leave the system. Group pve cannot work in eve online, and here's why:

In most mmos, when there is group PVE, a dead player can be undone by a res, and a team wipe is just a matter of respawning and dealing with whatever death penalty the game forces on you. Sometimes it's an xp debt, sometimes you pay for your corpse.

Eve's not like that. If I lose my BS because a fleet screw up, it doesn't matter if I come back and fight because 25m isk isn't going to put me back into the black. (insurance helps, but still).

Here's what I predict will happen; if it's high sec, most of the players will log or leave. If it's in low sec, a handful of pirates will show up to screw any players over trying to complete it. If it's null sec, the alliance holding the space will probably remove it if they can, or ignore it.

These Incursions will likely last until they naturally expire, or if they don't, they'll last for days if not weeks.

I was somewhat looking forward to this incursion thing, but frankly the whole thing seems boring.

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Originally by: Concerned Capsuleers

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Why can't we just be left alone?!

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Originally by: CCP Adida

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The male thread was locked because the discussion turned into transsexuals and man boobs.

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Originally by: Luke S

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Quote:

---

Incursions are full war assaults, treat them as such.

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Damn their goes my 1 man 3 account fleet idea.

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Originally by: CCP Dropbear

---

Originally by: Concerned Capsuleers

---

Why can't we just be left alone?!

---

Because part of this is about Sansha's next target.

Meaning, it's you.

You're the next target.

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Originally by: Linda Flamewalker

---

Originally by: CCP Dropbear

---

Originally by: Concerned Capsuleers

---

Why can't we just be left alone?!

---

Because part of this is about Sansha's next target.

Meaning, it's you.

You're the next target.

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Yeah forcing people to abandon missions, fleet up with someone you dont know to get ganked.. yeah i see that turning out well... where is that instant dock up and log out button again? what.. anyone wanting to quote me and go "you mad?!" or "harden up".. mm sure go ahead :) dont see the point of risking a miltu milion ship for what 25 mill? yeah not going to happen.

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Originally by: dannyBOy16437

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Originally by: Sertan Deras

---

Edited by: Sertan Deras on 10/11/2010 16:01:00
CCP: Forcing players to deal with NPC incursions they couldn't care less about (because we have real players to fight, you see) in space they pay for.

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Firstly people whine that CCP forces them into PvP situations.

Now people are wining about being forced into PvE situations.

Make your mind up.

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Originally by: CCP Dropbear

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Originally by: Concerned Capsuleers

---

Why can't we just be left alone?!

---

Because part of this is about Sansha's next target.

Meaning, it's you.

You're the next target.

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Originally by: gfldex

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noob 1: can I fleet with you to take on the sansha?
pirate 2: Don't forget to fit Tech2 gear, or faction if you don't have the skills.
pirate 1: ofc honey, just warp to me, we are in the site already
noob 1: OMGWTFWHEREAREYOUALLTHEMSASHAARESHOOTINGMEANDICANNOTWARPOUT
pirate 1: *chuckle*
pirate 2: *chuckle*
pirate 3: *chuckle*
noob 1: *BEEP*YOU! <endless_rant_in_local_for_the_next_10_minutes/>

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Originally by: CCP Dropbear

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Originally by: Concerned Capsuleers

---

Why can't we just be left alone?!

---

Because part of this is about Sansha's next target.

Meaning, it's you.

You're the next target.

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Originally by: egegergergsdgedgege

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Why do we need invasions of rather stupid NPCs when we already hhave epic wars between player driven organisations?

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Quote:

---

This whole incursion thing fits into eve like a laser gun into the wild west movie.

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Quote:

---

As such you will face NPC equivalent of logistics, stealth bombers, remote spider-repairing battleships, interceptors, command ships, EW platforms, and more.

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Originally by: Linda Flamewalker

---

Originally by: CCP Dropbear

---

Originally by: Concerned Capsuleers

---

Why can't we just be left alone?!

---

Because part of this is about Sansha's next target.

Meaning, it's you.

You're the next target.

---

Yeah forcing people to abandon missions, fleet up with someone you dont know to get ganked.. yeah i see that turning out well... where is that instant dock up and log out button again? what.. anyone wanting to quote me and go "you mad?!" or "harden up".. mm sure go ahead :) dont see the point of risking a miltu milion ship for what 25 mill? yeah not going to happen.

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Originally by: Lord Saradomin

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Forcing someone to do something about the "threat" due to system wide effects.

Very sandbox...

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Originally by: CCP Ytterbium

---

Sansha supercarrier: we need to apologize for the miscommunication about this ship class name, which created some confusion here. The ship players will be able to build from the blueprint copy is a faction version of a regular supercarrier, not a new ship class.

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Originally by: Seriously Bored

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did everyone gloss over the fact that you can get named capital modules with that CONCORD LP? Once the general populace wises up to the rewards, they'll be clamoring to get in on this.

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Originally by: Dmoney3788

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If someone ganks you in your hisec mission hub they get concorded.

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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Another question. will the number of systems grow like an infection if not cleared up giving incentive to nearby systems to help out too? please say they will or everyone will just clear out. wouldn't it be awesome if incursions grew?

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