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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
Isaiah Harms
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Posted - 2010.11.27 13:43:00 -
[1531]
Anyone who things is is going to help new players obviously is one. I am SO ****ED that people have to dumb down EVE Online. I play it because it's DIFFICULT.
If I wanted an easy game I'd go play World of Warcraft or Starcraft. Good job CCP and you pathetic CSM candidates (your days are numbered).
Message to CCP: Keep it up and you'll be turning away players who dedicated YEARS to this game in favor of people who "just want to try it." I once though you had designed a game whereby I'd never catch up with an "older" player. Then I discovered the advanced learning skills. I thought then that EVE was a smart game. Oh well...
I for one am so tired of all these whining players who think EVE Online is TOO HARD. Duh! That's what makes it GREAT! Get some spine and get tough. CCP cannot save you from being beat up on in the game. You want something in this game you gotta work to get it. Quit the constant harping that CCP doesn't "make it easy enough" for you. Or go play some other game.
Sorry, but I believe there's too many whiners and complainers doing too much typing instead of learning the game. Grow up or always be pathetic. Your choice in the game and in real life.
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NereSky
Gallente RETRIBUTIONS. SOUL CARTEL
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Posted - 2010.11.27 13:45:00 -
[1532]
Originally by: Jagga Spikes
Originally by: NereSky ...
Well my point is raised and nothing further can be added accept to re affirm my disappointment that 1) this wasnt done a lot earlier and 2) there should be something else awarded to reflect adequate compensation to those that have followed CCP's guidelines and trained those skills to the max
fuzzy feelings not enough? i could send you a "You won!" image.
Gee thanks
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2010.11.27 13:53:00 -
[1533]
Originally by: Isaiah Harms Pressing a button and waiting for a few months is what makes EVE a diffucult and deep game.
Personally I think that is just a stupid way to design a game and has nothing to do with actual difficulty or depth. Difficulty and depth is part of the gameplay and should require playing the game to learn instead of just waiting, but to each his own I guess.
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Takseen
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Posted - 2010.11.27 14:00:00 -
[1534]
Originally by: Isaiah Harms Anyone who things is is going to help new players obviously is one. I am SO ****ED that people have to dumb down EVE Online. I play it because it's DIFFICULT.
If I wanted an easy game I'd go play World of Warcraft or Starcraft. Good job CCP and you pathetic CSM candidates (your days are numbered).
Message to CCP: Keep it up and you'll be turning away players who dedicated YEARS to this game in favor of people who "just want to try it." I once though you had designed a game whereby I'd never catch up with an "older" player. Then I discovered the advanced learning skills. I thought then that EVE was a smart game. Oh well...
I for one am so tired of all these whining players who think EVE Online is TOO HARD. Duh! That's what makes it GREAT! Get some spine and get tough. CCP cannot save you from being beat up on in the game. You want something in this game you gotta work to get it. Quit the constant harping that CCP doesn't "make it easy enough" for you. Or go play some other game.
Sorry, but I believe there's too many whiners and complainers doing too much typing instead of learning the game. Grow up or always be pathetic. Your choice in the game and in real life.
This post is so full of delusions its sad. Guess what, you *still* wouldn't have been able to catch up to those older players, because they have access to the exact same learning skills as you, and could probably afford better implants to boot.
And needless to say, boring =/ hard. Learning skills were the former.
And really, claiming Starcraft(of either flavour) is easy is a bit of a laugh, unless you're just talking about single player. But hey, who needs facts when you've got a whine post to make, right?
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GUBZZ
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Posted - 2010.11.27 14:17:00 -
[1535]
I have to laugh at all those who are providing 'solutions' to the learning skills development.
It ain't gonna happen. Either leave (and give me your stuff) or deal with it.
As I've already posted, I am happy with this change. At the end of the day, it's a GAME. FOR ENTERTAINMENT VALUE. So you've waited around and fought off boredom for 3 or so months while the learning skills finish? Big deal.
Geez, some of you guys are pathetic. You might want to think about getting out in to the real world where things change and we have no say over how it's done.
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Death Stab
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Posted - 2010.11.27 14:24:00 -
[1536]
I have an idea (and hope that CCP monitors this topic):
Why don't you get rid of Rank 3 learning skills? You could leave Rank 1 skills and give them +2 attributes per level.
Nothing would change but newbies would not complain about long training time. They would be proud that they maxed their char out and happy while training BS to level 5 that they 'saved' a couple of days!
Newbies still would need to learn about attributes and learning process and there would still be a choice for people - to gain attributes or to train something else. Eve world would not be 'poorer' after the change.
I think most of old and new players would approve this idea.
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Mr Epeen
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Posted - 2010.11.27 14:32:00 -
[1537]
Originally by: Death Stab
I think most of old and new players would approve this idea.
ROFL!!
You must be new here.
There is nothing that CCP could do that would get most peoples agreement.
That's just not the way this forum rolls.
Mr Epeen
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Miklabjarnir Primus
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Posted - 2010.11.27 14:41:00 -
[1538]
Originally by: Blackhuey Awesome. Next please remove fitting skills, and anything else that requires investment for future reward.
*headdesk*
Quite. It looks like CCP are trying to dumb down the game a bit more with every new update.
This is the worst change since thy opened the option to reallocate attributes. I could have accepted attribute reallocation if it had meant loss of skills depending on the attribute you reduced, but now it is totally ridiculous. Adding this change, I suppose the game will be even more biased towards the point-and-shoot crowd.
If I wanted a console game, I would have gotten that instead of an EVE subscripton.
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Joss56
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Posted - 2010.11.27 14:44:00 -
[1539]
Originally by: Isaiah Harms If I wanted an easy game I'd go play World of Warcraft or Starcraft. Good job CCP and you pathetic CSM candidates (your days are numbered)
Just by saying this your credibility is gone young guy.
You have to be the most stupid individual on this planet to afirm something like this, you don't know what you are talking about and this is what it tell you one 6.5years ex player at high world ranks over 15millions of players wich of course you'll never know what that means.
Show right here and right now that the fact that learnings are gonne this game became easier.
If you want to play alone or only with a few guys then you play console games or those on youre phone.
An mmo like Eve has ben donne by guys and guirls guiving a lot of they're timelife working hard to do what it is right now, adn it can become better so this decision is needed wanted and good fot the entier community as it is, i hope, for the number of new subscribers wich means more $$$ in the bank to improve the game and keep those guys and guirs happy of they're job.
Now what are you talking about? your own ass? who cares about threats? -if you dont like it be free to leave and take care to not be asskiked by de door closing.
It's a very good decision whatever you may think or say.
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Syrr Northrope
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Posted - 2010.11.27 14:55:00 -
[1540]
This change comes down to one thing the way it's being implemented.
The impatient, I want it all and I want it now, group are getting a buff.
The patient, I'll sacrifice short term enjoyment for long term gain, group are getting a nerf.
People who maxed their learning skills are getting the shaft on this one, no other way you can cut it. Rationalize it all you want, but at the end of the day the maxed 5/5 players are getting the shaft for the lazy/impatient ones.
CCP just let the grasshoppers raid the ants larder and the ants are supposed to be happy about it?
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sirmcannon
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Posted - 2010.11.27 14:59:00 -
[1541]
interesting how half of this is just people whinning.... probably this tears rule!!! mmm well this and the 3 mill xtra points for cap navigation skills i wont have to train :)
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elitatwo
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Posted - 2010.11.27 14:59:00 -
[1542]
Edited by: elitatwo on 27/11/2010 15:00:12 It has been said before me and I can only give you both of my thumbs up! The solution is great and the few drawbacks for new people is well thought throu. I cannot thank you guy for the good solution that came out of this in the short amount of time! Looking foreward to spend over 5mio skillpoints to other skills!
Thank you!
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.27 15:03:00 -
[1543]
Originally by: Lliabron No. you are making things up.
Read what you wrote: "I wanted skills that would give me possibility of skill-wise competitive advantage in long run." The only thing that can give you this is total SP.
Quote: No. He gets same gift/update as everyone else.
àand thus gets exactly what he wanted, and actually comes out ahead.
Quote: This is all completely irrelevant (and wrong by the way). What I feel unfair of is absence of compensation (of what you lose).
The compensation is there: you wanted SP ù you got them. You wanted AP ù you got them. The only thing that would make this a "non-compensation" is if you felt you got less out of it than others, i.e. it's unfair that others get the same thing you do, even though they invested less. If you're saying that people did not get exactly what they paid for, you need to go back and re-read the blog.
Quote: No it does not. You by purpose completely left from consideration my statements about how eve fights inflation.
No I did not. You just fail to realise exactly what those measures do: they remove assets. In some cases, the assets are transformed into other kinds of assets; sometimes, they're expended in exchange for stat changes (temporary or permanent) sometimes, they're outright removed. Until you understand this, you will not understand how EVE works.
Again, go look at the economy presentations. Without the continuous removal of assets, the EVE economy would collapse. It's an integral part of the game.
Quote: So they are being replaced. So only those that had them are getting them? No? Then they are not getting replaced.
They are being replaced. Just because 1-2 points are being replaced by 60 in some cases does not make them any less replaced.
Quote: OK, so I'm right in my opinion that while this change is understandable and not bad thought overall it can use some more thinking. Thank you very much.
No, because the value lost is negligible; it cannot and must not be reimbursed in ISK; and, most likely, it's not a loss at all on the grander scale.
Quote: No you just can't read obviously. Otherwise point me to one post where I stated you lose the skillpoints.
Here:
Originally by: Lilabron
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Lilabron -SP reimbursement is nice thing, fair, but has nothing to do with skills injecting.
Incorrect. It is a direct result of the skills being injected.
Direct result would mean you get as much as you had. This is not the case.
Here, you are saying that we do not get as much as we had through the SP reimbursement. This is false. If you meant to discuss attribute points, you shouldn't have quoted and referred to a comment about skill points. So whether you intended it or not, you claimed that the SP reimbursement was not 100%. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Tasko Pal
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.11.27 15:06:00 -
[1544]
Originally by: NereSky
[...] and 2) there should be something else awarded to reflect adequate compensation to those that have followed CCP's guidelines and trained those skills to the max
Why does a good thing need to be better? Use the brainmeats. There's plenty of advantage to be had from that many skill points. Imagine if you had a few million points sitting around when PI first came out. You could have been fully trained in most PI skills inside of five minutes. That's quite an edge on everyone else. Same goes for new ships and other things.
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Cyrus RottenCrotch
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Posted - 2010.11.27 15:08:00 -
[1545]
Originally by: Tasko Pal
Originally by: NereSky
[...] and 2) there should be something else awarded to reflect adequate compensation to those that have followed CCP's guidelines and trained those skills to the max
Why does a good thing need to be better? Use the brainmeats. There's plenty of advantage to be had from that many skill points. Imagine if you had a few million points sitting around when PI first came out. You could have been fully trained in most PI skills inside of five minutes. That's quite an edge on everyone else. Same goes for new ships and other things.
lmao training PI skills - that made me chuckle
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Vandya
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Posted - 2010.11.27 15:10:00 -
[1546]
Me and my friends support this change.
Awesome change CCP!
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.27 15:14:00 -
[1547]
Edited by: Tippia on 27/11/2010 15:22:40
Originally by: Kaizer Douken So CCP decides to make focus in that everyone skilltime will be equal and faster. Well, the other side is that everyone that already had the learning max out is already and will be ahead of you "forever". Even if that person started playing eve after you and even worse, that person will be even more ahead of you since they'll get more SP back.
They will (maybe) be ahead "forever", but only in terms of Total SP. As it happens, total SP is a completely pointless stat beyond determining the cost of your medical clone. As far as stats that provide actual performance, no-one can ever stay ahead, nor have they ever been able to ù the shallow skill tree and finite and limited skill contexts takes care of that.
àoh, and the game has enough ways to make people lose SP and/or train at less than full speed, that "forever" (even with the quotation marks) is better expressed as "for a while".
Originally by: Isaiah Harms Anyone who things is is going to help new players obviously is one. I am SO ****ED that people have to dumb down EVE Online. I play it because it's DIFFICULT.
Learning skills did not make EVE any more difficult, and removing them doesn't make it any easier. You're confusing difficulty with tedium ù both of which make things take longer (or at least feel like they do), but for vastly different reasons. By your standard, Progress Quest ù a "game" you leave running in your status field, is the most difficult game ever.
Quote: If I wanted an easy game I'd go play World of Warcraft or Starcraft.
àand as someone pointed out, if Blizzard added a +xp% skill to those games, they would suddenly become difficult according to you? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Tasko Pal
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.11.27 15:25:00 -
[1548]
Originally by: Cyrus RottenCrotch
lmao training PI skills - that made me chuckle
Maybe you'd have regretted doing it now. But there was some nice price jumps at the end of the manufacture chain (POS structures in particular) that would require p4 components. At least a month of nice isk.
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Blu Skyes
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Posted - 2010.11.27 15:52:00 -
[1549]
Tippia, your endless giberish/trolling is getting a bit tiresome. Just put the CCP tag on your name and get it over with.
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Aera Aiana
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.27 16:49:00 -
[1550]
* CCP announces a good change that leaves everybody in a better position. * 52+ pages of whining follow.
You got to love these forums.
Scenario 1: Old player, maxed learnings for years. Gets to spend 4.7M+ skillpoints on useful skills but will skill slightly slower in the future. However, it will take several years before this reduced learning speed compensates the freed skillpoints from learnings, until then he's better off. Money spent on skillbooks granted him years of faster skilltraining and is therefore not "lost". Has no reason to complain, except for "I had it hard, I want others to suffer the same".
Scenario 2: Old player, 4/4 learnings. Gets to spend a million or so skillpoints on useful stuff and will skill faster in the future. Money spent on skillbooks granted him years of faster skilltraining and is therefore not "lost". Should be happy but will probably find a reason to moan anyway.
Scenario 3: New player, only recently purchased and used learning books. Tough luck since he didn't yet benefit a lot from the improved learning speed and won't get the used books reimbursed. Also absolutely the only one with any reason to complain. At least he can reallocate a couple hundred thousand skillpoints into usefull stuff and won't have to spend another month to finish learnings. Ironically, probably also the one who won't complain.
Scenario 4: New player, didn't have a chance to train learnings yet. Will be happy to find out that he won't have to waste time on learnings, only because people before him (aka "bitter vet") had to do so.
Scenario 5: Old player who just recently decided to give learnings a try. Stupid. - Don't let the trolls stop you from giving a helpful reply. :) |
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Athena Olympus
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Posted - 2010.11.27 16:55:00 -
[1551]
Edited by: Athena Olympus on 27/11/2010 16:54:57
Originally by: Aera Aiana * CCP announces a good change that leaves everybody in a better position. * 52+ pages of whining follow.
You got to love these forums.
Scenario 1: Old player, maxed learnings for years. Gets to spend 4.7M+ skillpoints on useful skills but will skill slightly slower in the future. However, it will take several years before this reduced learning speed compensates the freed skillpoints from learnings, until then he's better off. Money spent on skillbooks granted him years of faster skilltraining and is therefore not "lost". Has no reason to complain, except for "I had it hard, I want others to suffer the same".
Scenario 2: Old player, 4/4 learnings. Gets to spend a million or so skillpoints on useful stuff and will skill faster in the future. Money spent on skillbooks granted him years of faster skilltraining and is therefore not "lost". Should be happy but will probably find a reason to moan anyway.
Scenario 3: New player, only recently purchased and used learning books. Tough luck since he didn't yet benefit a lot from the improved learning speed and won't get the used books reimbursed. Also absolutely the only one with any reason to complain. At least he can reallocate a couple hundred thousand skillpoints into usefull stuff and won't have to spend another month to finish learnings. Ironically, probably also the one who won't complain.
Scenario 4: New player, didn't have a chance to train learnings yet. Will be happy to find out that he won't have to waste time on learnings, only because people before him (aka "bitter vet") had to do so.
Scenario 5: Old player who just recently decided to give learnings a try. Stupid.
Forgot to add Scenario 6: Aera Aiana hasnt a clue and talks out her ass
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Tasko Pal
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.11.27 16:57:00 -
[1552]
Edited by: Tasko Pal on 27/11/2010 16:57:39
Originally by: Kaizer Douken
Person A trains all learning till rank 3 - lvl 4. Person B on the same day trains all to rank 3 - lvl 5. After 3 years Person B has 35M SP, Person A has only 20M. 100% boost training didn't exist when person A & B were "born" so that doesn't comes into account.
CCP says they'll give you back your Learning SP. In the end Person B ends up with 40M SP. Person A ends up with 22M SP.
No, player A still has 35 million SP and player B still has 20 million SP.
Quote: So CCP decides to make focus in that everyone skilltime will be equal and faster. Well, the other side is that everyone that already had the learning max out is already and will be ahead of you "forever". Even if that person started playing eve after you and even worse, that person will be even more ahead of you since they'll get more SP back. ;D
Player B chose to have much less SP than player A. So why does it matter that player B will probably continue to have less SP? I don't see a problem here especially given that player B's training rate has gone up considerably.
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Avnoch
Minmatar Adventurers Matari Visionary Coalition
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Posted - 2010.11.27 17:20:00 -
[1553]
I have to say that I am loving this! And I think it will make the game better over all. The pros here far outweight the cons. Thumbs up CCP!
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.27 17:22:00 -
[1554]
Edited by: Tippia on 27/11/2010 17:22:57
Originally by: Tasko Pal
Originally by: Kaizer Douken Person A trains all learning till rank 3 - lvl 4. Person B on the same day trains all to rank 3 - lvl 5. After 3 years Person B has 35M SP, Person A has only 20M. 100% boost training didn't exist when person A & B were "born" so that doesn't comes into account.
CCP says they'll give you back your Learning SP. In the end Person B ends up with 40M SP. Person A ends up with 22M SP.
No, player A still has 35 million SP and player B still has 20 million SP.
Both the before and after are kind of skewed.
Before: A has 18M useful SP + 2M Learning SP; B had 30M useful SP ù about 66% more than A ù and 5M Learning SP . After: A has 20M useful SP; B has 35 useful SP ù 75% more.
In both situations, B's investment paid off and in the switch-over, B got even further "ahead" of A, thus making his investment pay off twice, both in the old and the new system. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2010.11.27 17:33:00 -
[1555]
Originally by: Death Stab I have an idea (and hope that CCP monitors this topic):
Why don't you get rid of Rank 3 learning skills? You could leave Rank 1 skills and give them +2 attributes per level.
Nothing would change but newbies would not complain about long training time. They would be proud that they maxed their char out and happy while training BS to level 5 that they 'saved' a couple of days!
Newbies still would need to learn about attributes and learning process and there would still be a choice for people - to gain attributes or to train something else. Eve world would not be 'poorer' after the change.
I think most of old and new players would approve this idea.
to be honest, while I support the current changes fully. I would suppor this much much more. :P
to get all the rank 1 learning skills to 5 takes... I can't remember... 24 days? about?
to get them to 4 would take less than a week?
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2010.11.27 17:41:00 -
[1556]
Originally by: Syrr Northrope
The patient, I'll sacrifice short term enjoyment for long term gain, group are getting a nerf.
NO NO NO NO
you sacrifice short term enjoyment for a SHORT TERM GAIN.
that is why learning skills are ****ing useless and stupid! It's not a choice!
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Kanatta Jing
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Posted - 2010.11.27 17:53:00 -
[1557]
We all know what comes next.
CCP is going to break into out homes and steal our razors so we'll have to stop cutting ourselves!
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.11.27 17:58:00 -
[1558]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Syrr Northrope
The patient, I'll sacrifice short term enjoyment for long term gain, group are getting a nerf.
NO NO NO NO
you sacrifice short term enjoyment for a SHORT TERM GAIN.
that is why learning skills are ****ing useless and stupid! It's not a choice!
I've actually had the most gain out of the learning skills. I trained them all at the start, as the new rank 3 ones came out just after I started this char.
This change means, I've had years of higher training speeds and now get all my SP back to do with as I wish. What an awesome deal.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
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Posted - 2010.11.27 18:26:00 -
[1559]
The 'get rid of tier 2 learning only' idea has already been presented. It is indeed vastly superior to the current proposal but the next time CCP adopts somebody else's good idea instead of stumbling backward with their own harebrained idea will be the first.
The optimal solution would split the 'gift' up into 2 parts (all announced now.)
This Christmas we all get tier 1 learning skills bumped to IV (and reimbursed to the extent we had them.)
Next Christmas we all get tier 2 learning skills bumped to IV (and reimbursed to the extent we had them.)
That way instead of giving away 5.37M SP to every toon in one fell swoop (which is a horribly unbalanced idea) they'd be giving away ~272K SP now and ~679K SP next Christmas. Those numbers are much more reasonable (more like EVE, less like WoW.)
Or, if CCP has ADD to the extent that its hoped-for new playerbase does, it could give both of these 'gifts' at once.
But giving away 5.37M SP to EVERY toon is a horrible precedent. It breaks the game far more than reimbursing the $ for learning skillbooks ever would.
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Ebisu Kami
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Posted - 2010.11.27 18:30:00 -
[1560]
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