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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
Tas Nok
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:29:00 -
[571]
ok, I tried to get through 19 pages of "good job" and whining just can't do it....
Simple question: I have a couple alts with learning skills trained as well (to make the sprint to being a useful alt shorter) will they also get a SP reimbursement?? or will this be just PER account like when the game was down for 24 hrs??
In general good move... hopefully it will be glitch free.
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Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:30:00 -
[572]
 Originally by: Xybex
Originally by: Abdiel Kavash
Coming next year: Oh, scrap the mission feature, everybody will just get 20M ISK deposited in their wallets every hour.
Learning skills were not a feature. They were as fun as jabbing yourself in the eye every day for a month while you trained them up. They added nothing to the game. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing.
One could say the same for missions...
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
ZDM CEO
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:32:00 -
[573]
Originally by: Tas Nok
ok, I tried to get through 19 pages of "good job" and whining just can't do it....
Simple question: I have a couple alts with learning skills trained as well (to make the sprint to being a useful alt shorter) will they also get a SP reimbursement?? or will this be just PER account like when the game was down for 24 hrs??
The answer was in the first 3 or 4 pages... per char, not per account
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Shawshanke
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:32:00 -
[574]
Originally by: Ong
Sorry if this has already been asked, but i really cant be botherd to read though 18 pages of 'woot good job ccp'
How will this effect remaps? if the new skill points cant be re-maped does that mean remaps are pretty much de-funked? Or will we be able to remap 8 points from what would have been each skill ie 40 points?
It has absolutely no effect on remapping because you were never able to move the points you got from learning skills to begin with.
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I'thari
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:34:00 -
[575]
Originally by: Tas Nok
ok, I tried to get through 19 pages of "good job" and whining just can't do it....
Simple question: I have a couple alts with learning skills trained as well (to make the sprint to being a useful alt shorter) will they also get a SP reimbursement?? or will this be just PER account like when the game was down for 24 hrs??
In general good move... hopefully it will be glitch free.
No, per character - if character has even 1 SP in learning he'll get it to redistribute.
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Xybex
Originally by: Abdiel Kavash
Coming next year: Oh, scrap the mission feature, everybody will just get 20M ISK deposited in their wallets every hour.
Learning skills were not a feature. They were as fun as jabbing yourself in the eye every day for a month while you trained them up. They added nothing to the game. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing.
One could say the same for missions...
Not all missions, COSMOS ones are quite fine |
ZDM CEO
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:34:00 -
[576]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Xybex
Originally by: Abdiel Kavash
Coming next year: Oh, scrap the mission feature, everybody will just get 20M ISK deposited in their wallets every hour.
Learning skills were not a feature. They were as fun as jabbing yourself in the eye every day for a month while you trained them up. They added nothing to the game. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing.
One could say the same for missions...
Except you get standings plus isk plus LP for missions, which allows you to get better missions and buy stuff.
Very similar... NOT 
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Odins Blood
Caldari
Black-Robed Men
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:34:00 -
[577]
yeah. i dont want to grind missions daily no more. it aint fun. can we get rid of those? also mining for hours is no fun can i have the ore? and waiting for the stuff to be manufactured takes too long is no fun can i just have it too?
This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave. ~Elmer Davis |
Dmoney3788
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:36:00 -
[578]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Xybex
Originally by: Abdiel Kavash
Coming next year: Oh, scrap the mission feature, everybody will just get 20M ISK deposited in their wallets every hour.
Learning skills were not a feature. They were as fun as jabbing yourself in the eye every day for a month while you trained them up. They added nothing to the game. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing.
One could say the same for missions...
Actually, missions are an optional feature, meaning if you don't want to grind for isk that way, you don't have to. Learning skills although are optional to train, they provide no alternative way to gain faster training times, where if you choose to not do missions there's a lot of alternatives to making isk.
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Teh Minez0r
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:37:00 -
[579]
I guess augmentations that affect a chars attributes will be untouched, right?
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KurnKuku
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:39:00 -
[580]
Originally by: Teh Minez0r
I guess augmentations that affect a chars attributes will be untouched, right?
Right.
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Phaedriel
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:40:00 -
[581]
Worth pointing out, learning skills were not REQUIRED, they were an optimal path.
No new player was required to train learning skills, they were a trade-off between sacrifice now for later gain... a common theme in pretty much bloody everything in the world.
What does this change actually do? It takes away choice, and the freedom to use your head to gain an advantage over someone else if you plan ahead.
CCP - WE LIKE COMPLEXITY. We just don't like functional roadblocks (clickfest in PI, there's no thought in that but choosing whether to train a learning skill a level higher or not, that was an informed decision).
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Ovella
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:40:00 -
[582]
Originally by: Dmoney3788
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Xybex
Originally by: Abdiel Kavash
Coming next year: Oh, scrap the mission feature, everybody will just get 20M ISK deposited in their wallets every hour.
Learning skills were not a feature. They were as fun as jabbing yourself in the eye every day for a month while you trained them up. They added nothing to the game. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing.
One could say the same for missions...
Actually, missions are an optional feature, meaning if you don't want to grind for isk that way, you don't have to.
I'll tell you a secret: no one makes you train skills at gunpoint either  |
Terianna Eri
Amarr
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:43:00 -
[583]
HALLELUJAH \o/
________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito
PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
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Rhok Relztem
Caldari
CGMA Synergist Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:43:00 -
[584]
Looks like I'm in the minority once again after skimming through these 19 pages (I didn't read them all). Personally, I think this stinks. CCP is trying so hard to appease the very loud, vocal minority found in the forums that they are really hurting the game. EVE is all about thinking, strategy, making plans, and then training for what you want to do. The Learning skills set and remaps was a HUGE part of that. Doing away with the Learning skills only makes EVE easier and that is NOT a good thing. I am so tired of every MMO dumbing-down to draw in new players who are too lazy to think. I would rather have seen CCP give us new skills for Christmas and plan for a revamp of the Learning skills sometime in the future rather than just dropping them altogether like this. A whole new and/or refurbished pirate set  would have been awesome - Bounty Hunting, Smuggling, Black Market, etc.
Over the past 1+ year, I have trained all 9 characters on my three accounts to between 5/3 and 5/5. I JUST finished getting my last alt to 5/3 last week and now all of that training time is wasted. Bah! Humbug. 
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Yodayar
Caldari
Knights of Apathy
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:44:00 -
[585]
My only question is will existing characters get a free attribute remap at the same time as we get 12 new attribute points (or at least will we be allowed to distribute said attribute points as we see fit). I just don't want my attributes going back to 20/20/20/20/19 as atm they are at 26/20/16/16/15 (without implants) and I don't plan on using the 16/16/15 attributes until my next remap at the earliest.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:46:00 -
[586]
Originally by: Lockefox
So, can we please get a CCP response on what the new MAXIMUM attribute actually is?
32.
Quote:
An explanation about how remap points will work from here forward would also be appreciated.
Is the maximum added still +11?
No. 10, as always.
Quote:
Do we still need to waste +1 on charisma?
No. You never had to. 5 was the minimum attribute value.
Quote:
Is 20 the new base attribute? (4+12 != 20)
No. 17 (5+12).
The remap mechanics are not being touched in this patch.
The old base attribute was 5 ù if you had an older character with less in some attribute, you had to increase it to that at least. The old attribute max was 15 (base +10) ù if you had an older character with more, you had to reduce it to that. You had 14 points to spread around freely among your attributes. The most you could add to any one attribute was 10.
It used to be that you had 25 attribute points automatically spread over your 5 attributes for a minimum value of 5 in each. On top of that, you had 14 remappable points (and then skills and implants). Now, you still only have 14 remappable points. You still can only add 10 to any given attribute. You still can't reduce attributes below the minimum rating.
All they've done is add 12pts to that base stat ù instead of 5+5 unremappable points, we now have 5+17.
Quote:
With every other major game-changing feature, you took time to hear from the players...
They have. For years and years and years. Someone just finally pulled the trigger on something that had been brewing since (roughly) forever, and which had already been hinted at through numerous changes and statements in the past.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Zarkona
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:46:00 -
[587]
Me not like, 3 acc from 2003. Good for new players but i dont want another WoW.
This might be the right announcement for me to finally quit EVE. 
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8agpuss
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:46:00 -
[588]
Thank you.
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:47:00 -
[589]
I'm a little bit miffed, not outraged, but deeply disappointed at CCP.
What next? Downgrade the skill ranks and cut BPO/BPC build/copy/research times?
In any case, the major loser here is CCP. Giving everyone maxed attributes sans the learning skills. Let's assume a median 2mil SP to be invested by every character into learning skills - thats roughly 1 month worth of subscription per character. You threw away long term income potential in favour of increasing potential subscription volume, betting on the wider audience to stick to what is essentially a niche game.
Very well, only time will tell whether this has been the correct decision. If this falters, you're not going to be able to recant/recover what has been done without a major backlash. It's a one-way street. When (not if) a new bottleneck comes up and the players start pressuring you again, the natural way is to dumb it down again. Just like entropy.
The middle ground solution you didn't even touch. Since Zulu (or whomever that had the last say) caved in to popular demands, I'd just like to pose a simple question to these fellows, what are you solving by removing the learning skills? The players nagging at you or making genuine incentives for newbies to the game (thus increasing subscriptions & rentention)? You and I both know for the latter, there are plenty of ways of giving these incentives without killing anything.
Now, if it was the former, then you did it for the wrong reasons. |
Ovella
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:48:00 -
[590]
Originally by: Zarkona
Me not like, 3 acc from 2003. Good for new players but i dont want another WoW.
This might be the right announcement for me to finally quit EVE.
I can't not to ask for your stuff then |
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Usagi Tsukino
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:50:00 -
[591]
I have no idea how some of you people could possibly be complaining about this. Actually, I take that back, I can. People in this game would complain if CCP sent everyone a Leer jet filled with money and lobsters. If CCP does it, it's bad. That's just how it is.
I was, at one point, against removing the learning skills. That said, I don't mind this as it's being done well.
I'm looking to greatly boost my Leadership skills (without having to map to that worthless Charisma attribute) thanks to the reimbursement AND I get to keep the attribute increase the learning skills gave me? To top it off, my alt will now be able to learn her skills without having to bother with the advance skills that I have been dreading! <3
I beg of you, please explain how this is a nerf or in any way done poorly (OCD 99ers please don't reply  ).
___
Chaotic Dreams |
Isa Abdul4Finland
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:50:00 -
[592]
ccp should add BIG rewards+ bounties for navy-members that manage to save pilots on stations or belts attacked... they could instant-jump to location, with help of concord (concord could monitore that nobody tries to use situation) . pass it on to ccp..
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San Pek
Gallente
ICE is Coming to EVE
Not Found.
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:51:00 -
[593]
YEAAAAHHHH
Good job CCP !
When i was begining EVE, it was a terrible thing to train those damn skills. Sure all the new players will agree that. an for the one who have not complete buy the advanced leaning skills books, just think that you'll don't need to buy the other.
*San Pek is impatient to insta skill carrier to lvl 5 ...
Cuir |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:52:00 -
[594]
KurnKuku said "Come back and moan in 8 years when your reimbursed SP runs out."
It doesn't take 8 years, it takes until the new skills come out. You will be training all new skills at a slower rate. If you spend a year or more training new skills you will end up worse off. There are meant to be a lot of new skills coming in Incarna, new ship(s) and other skills. Even if you save the Learning SP to invest in new skills the point you end up worse off can be far less than 8 years.
What if you invest the SP now? Then Incarna hits and you spend ages training new skills. The answer is you end up worse off at the new skills over the current system.
______
How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Shiho Weitong
Caldari
Koa Mai Hoku
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:52:00 -
[595]
Edited by: Shiho Weitong on 25/11/2010 17:54:08
Edited by: Shiho Weitong on 25/11/2010 17:53:51
NVM. I hate pyramid quoting.
Just have to say. Yes, you did have to use points in charisma to remap on some characters. This Achura toon was born with 3 cha, which meant I had to put 2 points in cha to remap at all. Sometimes I wish I hadn't.
-----------
Why is it called common sense, when it's clearly very rare.
I had a mind once, but alas, I seem to have forgotten where I left it.
Originally by: Tchell Dahhn
You win, and thank you. |
Patri Andari
Caldari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:53:00 -
[596]
Look at all those beggars whooping about free bread!
Calling this a gift is a misnomer. It's a hand out. Of course the masses are happy. They get the full learning skills and invested precious little.
Those who trained learning skills should be compensated with 1.5x their current investment in learning skills. This because it was an investment!
Giving me back my principle eh? I should be overjoyed about that? My station spinning for three months was evidence of my commitment to this game as I fully expected the payout to be years in the future and I expected increased returns even further into the future, and no I will not wait 8 years to complain.
Those who made those investments should not be asked to be happy they are getting back their investment of time. They should be rewarded for their faithfulness and dedication.
Time and isk are less of an issue. I want my SP with a little interest, damn it! That or an exclusive BPC or some such!(/rage)
Bitter Vets Unite!!
Patri
I'll Roshambo You For That Titan! |
Yalluto
Gallente
Ascenda Group
Free EVE Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:53:00 -
[597]
Originally by: Vagel
Wonderfull!
Cant wait to get rid of them - and of cause, having 4,7 mill skillpoints to use as you see fit is even better :)
Woot! Exactly. I can't wait for this Christmas gift across 2 of my characters and close to 2Mil SP against a last. |
Mr Epeen
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:53:00 -
[598]
When I started:
There was no training queue. I didn't object to getting one.
There was no attribute remap. I didn't object to getting one.
And now there is going to be no wasted time on learning skills. I do not object to this.
For the bitter vets and other whiners. Do you really think it was better in the 'good old days'?
Mr Epeen
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Apocalyptic Oracle
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:54:00 -
[599]
This seems like a terrible idea....why are you now waisting the last 2 months of training time I put into my toon...not to mention the other toons I have trained with training skills...if people dont want to train those skills thats their desision not yours....thank you for removing one of the most intricate parts of your games that made people different in their toons...one more step closer to the WOW cutout pilot....lets all be the same and have the same skills WOOT wont that be fun! Instead of letting pilots decide for themselves where the important skills are CCP has now taken that freedom from them....not much of a sand box more of a puppet show with CCP controlling
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Teh Minez0r
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:55:00 -
[600]
Originally by: KurnKuku
Originally by: Teh Minez0r
I guess augmentations that affect a chars attributes will be untouched, right?
Right.
cheers :)
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