Hulks + Orca? There's a joke, 9% yield is not worth the extra hastle you get from being in a weaker ship with a much smaller ore hold.

Maybe you mean 55% extra yield with orca pilot skills and gank modules?
And that is for every ship in the fleet. And you are for some reason keep forgetting the cycle losses from having to go back to the station.

2 hulks+orca = 4 machinaws give or take.

Maybe you mean 55% extra yield with orca pilot skills and gank modules?
And that is for every ship in the fleet. And you are for some reason keep forgetting the cycle losses from having to go back to the station.

2 hulks+orca = 4 machinaws give or take.

It's assumed that if you're using an orca to boost the hulks then you would be using an orca to boost the macks. 2 max yield hulks + orca is only 9% more yield than 2 max yield macks + orca.

The biggest difference is macks hold more than 4 times the ore, far less effort is needed and in paticular when mining ice this far outweighs any benefit you gain from the 9% more yield the hulk setup would give. You can literally leave your computer alone for half an hour while you fill up on ore, allowing you put out far longer mining sessions than you could in a hulk.

CCP wanted to do away with there being one best barge, before that was the hulk. All they've achieved is making the mackinkaw the new king barge and entirely crashed the ice market at the same time. The market prices of the hulk and mackinkaw reflect this, their prices have been completely reversed. The new mackinkaw costs the same amount as the old hulk, the new hulk costs the same amount as the old mackinkaw. The market doesn't lie. The majority are mining in Mackinkaws.

Hulks + Orca? There's a joke, 9% yield is not worth the extra hastle you get from being in a weaker ship with a much smaller ore hold.

The only reason to bring an Orca is for the gang mining boosts, and since it's already there, it may aswell do the job of hauling anyway, not that it's really needed though.

Why talk about Ice mining the prices are starting to flat line. You make a lot more money mining rocks because its not an afk activity. As to the market, have you considered that as it's a supply an demand market that atm a lot of solo miners are changing ships so the market cost has gone up because of demand?

It's assumed that if you're using an orca to boost the hulks then you would be using an orca to boost the macks. 2 max yield hulks + orca is only 9% more yield than 2 max yield macks + orca.

The biggest difference is macks hold more than 4 times the ore, far less effort is needed and in paticular when mining ice this far outweighs any benefit you gain from the 9% more yield the hulk setup would give. You can literally leave your computer alone for half an hour while you fill up on ore, allowing you put out far longer mining sessions than you could in a hulk.

CCP wanted to do away with there being one best barge, before that was the hulk. All they've achieved is making the mackinkaw the new king barge and entirely crashed the ice market at the same time. The market prices of the hulk and mackinkaw reflect this, their prices have been completely reversed. The new mackinkaw costs the same amount as the old hulk, the new hulk costs the same amount as the old mackinkaw. The market doesn't lie. The majority are mining in Mackinkaws.

You need to check your bonuses, unless you run the Mack with three MLU/IHUs, in which case it's not noticeably stronger than the Hulk. The size of the Hulk's ore hold is utterly irrelevant since you're not going to use it other than as a transition buffer. For all intents and purposes, it can be considered infinite.

GǪexcept that doing so means you lose the boosts for long periods of time, which reduces your yield. So instead you use the Orca as a huge cargo can GÇö another transfer buffer from which the actual haulers pull ore and take back to base.

So no, using the Orca as a belt shuttle is hideously inefficient unless you actually run with two of themGǪ and that's just slow and cumbersome compared to using an actual industrial hauler.

The market also doesn't tell the truth either. The prices has also been changed because of manufacturing cost has also changed, plus its semi artificially being manipulated, as the demand of mackinaws has increased slightly, but not majorly. And as some solo miners switch to mackinaws, the manipulators are getting the hulks for cheaper. Same as the people who stole the retrievers from the market and are now selling them for a huge profit.

Also you said earlier "all mackinaws", not macks + orca.
And people who mined ice already had mackinaws before for ice mining. That also didn't change at all.
And afk mining ore? Seriously? go afk for 30 minutes and you come back after your ship sat for 15 minutes doing nothing because the ore you mined went empty. Mining ore afk is a complete waste of time.

And no, I don't agree with you that the majority moved to mackinaws. The majority will still be using what they used before the change, the hulk. New people might move to mackinaws, but most team miners will still go for hulks.

The belt numbers don't lie, most people are using mackinkaws and it's T1 equivalent, retrievers.

Mining too easy now? I don't get this whine.

I don't need to check anything

The ore hold size is very relevant, with the hulk you need to do a lot more work, it's far more intensive

GǪfor which a top-end industrial is still a better choice since it does it faster and in larger volume. In teams in particular, it allows you to switch from Macks to Hulk+Orca combos and leave everyone else in the belt, nicely boosted up.

And even if this rather secondary use for industrials was ever so slightly intruded on by the Mack, then so what? It just means the Mack is doing its job as a solo miner and it doesn't make any difference for the value of industrials at large.

Good news: they don't. There is no imbalance.

I don't need to check anything, a mack can have near 20k EHP with 3 upgrades, which is enough.

The ore hold size is very relevant, with the hulk you need to do a lot more work, it's far more intensive, with the mack you can have a very laid back, semi afk or even totally afk mining session, you could even go make dinner and eat it, come back and you're still not full on ore, that is an undeniably huge bonus. This applies to ice mining obviously.

I think what needs to be done now is to get rid of NPC corps... now that you cant just insta gank these things anymore you should be able to war dec these people... just force them into thier respective faction warfare corp and there you have it...

The hulk has a small margin in yield

no tank

and no storage capacity.

I think what needs to be done now is to get rid of NPC corps... now that you cant just insta gank these things anymore you should be able to war dec these people... just force them into thier respective faction warfare corp and there you have it...

Heh they can most definitely be ganked, easily

Hulk just got more hitpoints, more cpu and more powergird.
It has a stronger tank than before the patch and it still by far the king of pure yield.
Before the patch your Hulk would fill up in perhaps 3 cycles and now it's gone down to one.
Hulk pilots now have to pay a little bit more attention during mining ops.
Boo hoooooooooo