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Why Off Grid booster nerf won't happen (ever) or won't be what you think

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Diesel47 Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 30	Posted - 2012.08.14 00:57:00 - [1] - Quote Alot of people whining about off grid boosters being OP and unfair, even though they have been around for a very long time. I don't think CCP is ready to pull the plug on off grid boosting, because the fact of the matter is ... There many accounts being plexed and paid for just so they can provide the boosts. CCP is a business afterall and it isn't good for business to be making changes that will reduce their income. I for one don't really feel too strongly how this matter is resolved, but I will unsub my OGB toon if they remove off grid boosting. Thats $15 a month less income for CCP. I'm sure many other OGB alt owners feel the same. I have a reasonable solution though. If I worked at CCP I would do the following: 1. No boosting inside a POS bubble (this is just downright unfair) 2. T3s can only boost for around 5 pilots or so, limiting their use to small gangs only. Buff to small gang warfare, which is never a bad thing. Unless you are a blobbing noob. 3. Fleet Command ships keep their 3% bonus, but also can give bonuses to the entire fleet. Maybe even buff their survivability a bit. POS whiners are happy, Small gangs are happy, and command ship pilots can perform their role without T3s getting in the way. Unsubs are minimal, and gameplay/balance/whatever is fixed.
Beat General Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 32	Posted - 2012.08.14 01:02:00 - [2] - Quote This actually isn't a bad idea.
Abel Merkabah The Executioners Capital Punishment. 99	Posted - 2012.08.14 01:06:00 - [3] - Quote Sounds fair. "The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds, given adequate vacuuming systems."
Diesel47 Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 30	Posted - 2012.08.14 01:08:00 - [4] - Quote Abel Merkabah wrote: Sounds fair. Thanks, but what kind of forum signature is that? What is this saw III?
Jess Maine Black Lance Fidelas Constans 14	Posted - 2012.08.14 01:12:00 - [5] - Quote Sure, why not.
Qvar Dar'Zanar EVE University Ivy League 84	Posted - 2012.08.14 01:15:00 - [6] - Quote Yeah... Surely you pay their sub with RL money.
Diesel47 Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 30	Posted - 2012.08.14 01:19:00 - [7] - Quote Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote: Yeah... Surely you pay their sub with RL money. Every sub in the game is paid for with RL money. Even when you plex, somebody pays for that plex. What, did you think CCP seeded plexes for free? Lmfao.
Sentamon Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 168	Posted - 2012.08.14 01:31:00 - [8] - Quote If you don't buy PLEX for your buff alts, the price of PLEX would be less for single account players. Unless a large percentage of the Elite players are paying for their buff alts with real $ (unlikely) then get ready for the off-grind nerf. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
Diesel47 Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 33	Posted - 2012.08.14 01:38:00 - [9] - Quote Sentamon wrote: If you don't buy PLEX for your buff alts, the price of PLEX would be less for single account players. Unless a large percentage of the Elite players are paying for their buff alts with real $ (unlikely) then get ready for the off-grind nerf. That makes no sense. The higher the price of PLEX, the higher the incentive for people to buy it and sell it on the market. PLEX costs more than a sub, so every time somebody buys a PLEX to sell on the market or to consume, CCP wins. If anything, accounts that are fueled by PLEX are worth more to CCP than cash. Do you think somebody is more likely to PLEX if it is worth 300mil or 500mil? I think you are forgetting that CCP is the one who will be making the change and not the players. Just because players want cheap PLEX doesn't mean that their willpower is going to magically make CCP do something to nerf PLEX prices. I really hope you are trolling, for your sake.
Sheynan Lighting the blight 32	Posted - 2012.08.14 02:16:00 - [10] - Quote Making them ongrid would still be cooler. Just learn to dualbox a bit better and you're fine

Beat General Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 32	Posted - 2012.08.14 02:23:00 - [11] - Quote Sheynan wrote: Making them ongrid would still be cooler. Just learn to dualbox a bit better and you're fine Did ya read the OP mate? lool. Or matter of fact, do you even know how OGBs work?
LilRemmy Synaptic Void AAA Citizens 6	Posted - 2012.08.14 03:09:00 - [12] - Quote You know if off-grid boosting was nerfed then more CS pilots would be needed in fleets=your character just became more valuable than before. Then if you decide you don't want it anymore, sell it, I am sure there are plenty of buyers then. Just saying.
Diesel47 Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 36	Posted - 2012.08.14 03:27:00 - [13] - Quote LilRemmy wrote: You know if off-grid boosting was nerfed then more CS pilots would be needed in fleets=your character just became more valuable than before. Then if you decide you don't want it anymore, sell it, I am sure there are plenty of buyers then. Just saying. I don't think anybody would really want a pilot that can only fly a tengu, with no gunnery or missile skills what so ever, or any shield/armor skills, or barely any fitting skills. Or if they do they won't be willing to pay much. You need to train more than just leadership to fly a CS.
Theodoric Darkwind PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore 171	Posted - 2012.08.14 03:45:00 - [14] - Quote Nah you will just see boosters on grid, at least in good size fleet fights, the bonuses are worth having even if that means having CSes on grid during big fights (even now its not uncommon to see a vulture or damnation on grid). The highsec ~elitepvpers~ who wont solo without their OGB, OOC logi or falcon alts might get a bit butthurt though. Would help a ton if the warfare processor sub was either not a defensive sub or included a tank bonus so you could tank up a boosting tech 3 at least to the level of a command ship if not more. Would also help if training a boosting pilot didn't require a year of the worst possible remap in existence. WC5 and FC5 are probably the 2 worst skill trains in the game.
LilRemmy Synaptic Void AAA Citizens 6	Posted - 2012.08.14 03:49:00 - [15] - Quote Diesel47 wrote: LilRemmy wrote: You know if off-grid boosting was nerfed then more CS pilots would be needed in fleets=your character just became more valuable than before. Then if you decide you don't want it anymore, sell it, I am sure there are plenty of buyers then. Just saying. I don't think anybody would really want a pilot that can only fly a tengu, with no gunnery or missile skills what so ever, or any shield/armor skills, or barely any fitting skills. Or if they do they won't be willing to pay much. You need to train more than just leadership to fly a CS. They would be worth more than they are now.
Diesel47 Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 37	Posted - 2012.08.14 03:52:00 - [16] - Quote LilRemmy wrote: Diesel47 wrote: LilRemmy wrote: You know if off-grid boosting was nerfed then more CS pilots would be needed in fleets=your character just became more valuable than before. Then if you decide you don't want it anymore, sell it, I am sure there are plenty of buyers then. Just saying. I don't think anybody would really want a pilot that can only fly a tengu, with no gunnery or missile skills what so ever, or any shield/armor skills, or barely any fitting skills. Or if they do they won't be willing to pay much. You need to train more than just leadership to fly a CS. They would be worth more than they are now. I'm pretty sure an OGB alt will be worth more before the nerf, rather than after the nerf.
LilRemmy Synaptic Void AAA Citizens 6	Posted - 2012.08.14 03:57:00 - [17] - Quote Diesel47 wrote: LilRemmy wrote: Diesel47 wrote: LilRemmy wrote: You know if off-grid boosting was nerfed then more CS pilots would be needed in fleets=your character just became more valuable than before. Then if you decide you don't want it anymore, sell it, I am sure there are plenty of buyers then. Just saying. I don't think anybody would really want a pilot that can only fly a tengu, with no gunnery or missile skills what so ever, or any shield/armor skills, or barely any fitting skills. Or if they do they won't be willing to pay much. You need to train more than just leadership to fly a CS. They would be worth more than they are now. I'm pretty sure an OGB alt will be worth more before the nerf, rather than after the nerf. Well, you are wrong. Leadership skills would become more valuable since demand would increase by a lot. I am not knocking your ideas or anything but just knocking that part of your argument because it is wrong.
Kahega Amielden Rifterlings Ushra'Khan 467	Posted - 2012.08.14 03:58:00 - [18] - Quote OP is totally right. Remember how CCP never nerfed Falcon range and so everyone still has a Falcon alt? Long-term game balance is far more important for CCP's bottom line than short-term alt subscriptions. CCP isn't dumb and recognizes this. Off-grid boosting is going to be removed.
Theodoric Darkwind PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore 173	Posted - 2012.08.14 04:05:00 - [19] - Quote Kahega Amielden wrote: OP is totally right. Remember how CCP never nerfed Falcon range and so everyone still has a Falcon alt? Long-term game balance is far more important for CCP's bottom line than short-term alt subscriptions. CCP isn't dumb and recognizes this. Off-grid boosting is going to be removed and yes, your alt is going to become useless. nice supply of cheap alts for us null residents to finish training into proper CS pilots.
Gabrielle Lamb Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2012.08.14 04:07:00 - [20] - Quote It will happen, once CCP figures out how to make on-grid-boosters viable while nerfing off-grid at the same time.

Theodoric Darkwind PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore 173	Posted - 2012.08.14 04:10:00 - [21] - Quote Gabrielle Lamb wrote: It will happen, once CCP figures out how to make on-grid-boosters viable while nerfing off-grid at the same time. thats not a hard fix. make it so links only effect ships on grid with them, and they cant be activated inside a pos bubble, and buff the warfare processor sub on tech 3s so they have a comparable or better tank than a CS. If you fit a proper tank to a CS they are already pretty damn hard to kill if you have enough logi to keep them alive.
Siarl Conwy 0	Posted - 2012.08.14 04:15:00 - [22] - Quote How would it affect Mining Fleet Boosters? You frequently get an Orca on Station or a Rorq in a bubble boosting for several wings of Miners and Industrials, any change to the mechanics would affect them as well.
Gabrielle Lamb Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2012.08.14 04:23:00 - [23] - Quote Theodoric Darkwind wrote: Gabrielle Lamb wrote: It will happen, once CCP figures out how to make on-grid-boosters viable while nerfing off-grid at the same time. thats not a hard fix. make it so links only effect ships on grid with them, and they cant be activated inside a pos bubble, and buff the warfare processor sub on tech 3s so they have a comparable or better tank than a CS. If you fit a proper tank to a CS they are already pretty damn hard to kill if you have enough logi to keep them alive. Fair enough but they also recieve a shitload of heat while on grid and if you are to bring one in to combat it also needs to be useful outside of pure buffing. Without making them overpowered as combat vessels and so on. Also, since when were CCP fast to make changes?
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Nation 1815	Posted - 2012.08.14 04:28:00 - [24] - Quote Sheynan wrote: Making them ongrid would still be cooler. Just learn to dualbox a bit better and you're fine There are a lot of problems with making boosting on grid only. Let's think about them for a moment: - On grid gang boosters is not an engaging experience. There's nothing to it except warping with the fleet and activating the gang mods when you land. What, you didn't think your 50 DPS mattered did you? - On grid gang boosters makes blobbing even more effective when fighting smaller gangs. Where previously both sides would have an alt in a safe spot and things were somewhat fair, now only the blob has gang boosters. - On grid boosters means that defensive gangs have an enormous advantage. They'll have boosters set up and running before the other guys even land. Most of the e-rage around off grid gang boosters comes from people who were outmaneuvered and unable to successfully blob someone who was nominally "solo". While I agree that they were not truly solo, I also believe that there's a world of difference between flying in a 2 man gang and flying "solo" with a booster alt. You can see the same effect in the recent Alliance Tournament - the commentators could not STFU about how important it was to have more warm bodies on your team (regardless of what they were flying). Anyway. I don't care if they change gang boosters to be on grid only. I've got CS5 on several characters and every PVP mindlink. But seriously, can we make the gaming experience a bit better before just nerfing things? -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet 2582	Posted - 2012.08.14 05:01:00 - [25] - Quote Diesel47 wrote: Alot of people whining about off grid boosters being OP and unfair, even though they have been around for a very long time. I don't think CCP is ready to pull the plug on off grid boosting, because the fact of the matter is ... There many accounts being plexed and paid for just so they can provide the boosts. CCP is a business afterall and it isn't good for business to be making changes that will reduce their income. I for one don't really feel too strongly how this matter is resolved, but I will unsub my OGB toon if they remove off grid boosting. Thats $15 a month less income for CCP. I'm sure many other OGB alt owners feel the same. You mean like they won't ban bots, since they're paying customers or they won't nerf datacore farming, since many people had datacore farming alt accounts and it had been around for a very long time? I'm sorry but your 15 dollars aren't any more important than anyone elses and if you think it buys you a nerf shield, you're delusional. CCP is making the best game they think they can and occasionally changing things just to keep the game interesting. Threats of account cancelation are heard with every major change to the game and are ignored unless they reach massive numbers. On the other hand well constructed counter arguments can change their minds every time. Diesel47 wrote: I have a reasonable solution though. If I worked at CCP I would do the following: 1. No boosting inside a POS bubble (this is just downright unfair) 2. T3s can only boost for around 5 pilots or so, limiting their use to small gangs only. Buff to small gang warfare, which is never a bad thing. Unless you are a blobbing noob. 3. Fleet Command ships keep their 3% bonus, but also can give bonuses to the entire fleet. Maybe even buff their survivability a bit. POS whiners are happy, Small gangs are happy, and command ship pilots can perform their role without T3s getting in the way. Unsubs are minimal, and gameplay/balance/whatever is fixed. You just mostly ignored the entire issue and called it a day. The basic problem is that you shouldn't get such huge bonuses without putting your assets on the battlefield. You leave that problem unresolved and just address a side complaint. Why do you feel that small gang shouldn't have to bring their booster on the grid? Because if you max out the boosting bonuses, your survivability will be low and are at high risk of losing the ship? Worried you can't continue to AFK your booster alt, if you have to bring it to the battle? Isn't that how it should be and is with every other ship and fitting choice? The obvious solution, if you're determined to keep off grid boosting in the game, is to apply the boost fully only on grid and with a severe reduction to off grid. Something like 100% effect on grid and 10% off grid. No longer can you provide massive off grid bonuses and you'll get to keep your off grid boosting, but bringing your booster to the battlefield provide an immense advantage over off grid boosting as it should. The only real problem with removing off grid boosting is what to do with large fleet boosting, since most boosting ships can't withstand that kind of firepower. Other complaints are really non-issues or not specifically booster issues. The solution could be as simple as changing fleet boosting mechanics to allow multiple levels of redundancy in them, so multiple levels of boosters could be setup in advance and on the fly. As boosters start to die the system automatically moves down the list of boosters and notifies them with a icon on their screen, that they're the current fleet booster. That way you don't have to struggle with the problem of how to keep a single ship alive during a fleet battle. Boosters need to die just like logistics or any other support ship, but the game needs to support that by changing how setting up fleet boosters are handled.
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 1835	Posted - 2012.08.14 05:45:00 - [26] - Quote Siarl Conwy wrote: How would it affect Mining Fleet Boosters? You frequently get an Orca on Station or a Rorq in a bubble boosting for several wings of Miners and Industrials, any change to the mechanics would affect them as well. Why should a ship give tangible benefits but sit behind an unsurpassable protection? Makes no sense. If the targets want a buff, then the buff has to have a consequence and take risks to achieve it. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Super Chair Project Cerberus Caldari State Capturing 314	Posted - 2012.08.14 06:28:00 - [27] - Quote They need to swap the bonuses for the tech 3 and commandship. Tech 2 is supposed to specialize, while tech 3 is supposed to be generalized (so under this assumption vulture>tengu, but that's not the case). I trained for a vulture on my main but I decided to say f*ck that and got my alt into a tengu. If you made this change it would really hurt tech 3 cruiser boosting and buff commandship boosting. Also, I want to fly my vulture again.
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 1835	Posted - 2012.08.14 06:48:00 - [28] - Quote Super Chair wrote: They need to swap the bonuses for the tech 3 and commandship. Tech 2 is supposed to specialize, while tech 3 is supposed to be generalized (so under this assumption vulture>tengu, but that's not the case). I trained for a vulture on my main but I decided to say f*ck that and got my alt into a tengu. If you made this change it would really hurt tech 3 cruiser boosting and buff commandship boosting. Also, I want to fly my vulture again. Not only that. We got 2 kinds of command ships (plus the omni-present T3 aka the hybrid outclassing the specialized classes). A sensible change could be to completely remove offgrid boosting from the field command ships but leave limited off grid to the others. Limited would mean: - field command ship gives 100%. - fleet command ship gives 100% if in grid. If they are offgrid their bonus gradually decreases till it completely stops at 1 AU away. This would promote fleets having a specialized unit tasked to find those ships and go chase them, aka mini game in the game. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Lucie Lipps State War Academy Caldari State 2	Posted - 2012.08.14 06:50:00 - [29] - Quote You do know you can train for it too and have one as well right??? You fcking retards haha
Lexmana 696	Posted - 2012.08.14 07:31:00 - [30] - Quote Lucie Lipps wrote: You do know you can train for it too and have one as well right??? You fcking retards haha Only retards would think that broken mechanics available to all somehow makes them un-broken.



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