The problem with offgrid boosting in general is power creep.

People keep arguing how it helps them soloing gatecamps and fighting superior numbers, but will people turn their offgrid alts off as soon as they're not fighting superior ships and numbers? I guess not.

Eventually, having a booster alt will divide characters interested in solo and small gang pvp in those having one and those not having one, making offgrid boosting alts a quasi-prerequisite to do either, since everyone will assume a solo pilot or small gang has one and properly blob them as a consequence.

Whilst it helps solo/small gang in the short run at the moment, it raises the entry barrier for successful solo and small gang pvp and thus, hurts that segment of the game in the long run.

1. No boosting inside a POS bubble (this is just downright unfair)

2. T3s can only boost for around 5 pilots or so, limiting their use to small gangs only. Buff to small gang warfare, which is never a bad thing. Unless you are a blobbing noob.

3. Fleet Command ships keep their 3% bonus, but also can give bonuses to the entire fleet. Maybe even buff their survivability a bit.

The problem with offgrid boosting in general is power creep.

People keep arguing how it helps them soloing gatecamps and fighting superior numbers, but will people turn their offgrid alts off as soon as they're not fighting superior ships and numbers? I guess not.

Eventually, having a booster alt will divide characters interested in solo and small gang pvp in those having one and those not having one, making offgrid boosting alts a quasi-prerequisite to do either, since everyone will assume a solo pilot or small gang has one and properly blob them as a consequence.

Whilst it helps solo/small gang in the short run at the moment, it raises the entry barrier for successful solo and small gang pvp and thus, hurts that segment of the game in the long run.

Shame there is not any sov or hq related pvp mechanics. So the further you are in light years from your hq, the worse the gang bonuses are. At least for the top notch bonuses. Or even some that can be 'juiced' and fit on smaller ships then deteriorate over time catering to the smaller gang style of guerilla warfare. Dunno, just another terrible idea from the bad corner.

You go girl.

Next up "Should ISK be removed from the game?"

You sound desperate now.

[
While that is a semi-valid point,

It simply isn't worth the effort to drag a booster alt with you everywhere you go, for every single 1v1 and whatnot.

A booster alt isn't like an implant that requires no effort to use, every time you jump a gate.. you have to jump twice. If you want to boost you need a make a SS in a system before you do so.. Unless you are OK with boosting on a planet in your half-a-billion 10k ehp ship. The SS deal is a pain if you decide to roam.

I wouldn't consider it an effort "to drag them around". On the contrary - I think they're quite useful as a cov ops scout with increased survivability compared to a cov ops frig due to more EHP and an interdiction nullifier.



Either I already have a safespot in a system i roam in or I want to make at least a couple on the run before I even jump the cavalry into the system.

A cloaked interdiction nullified T3 is perfect for that. It's not an "effort", it's something I'd even use over the cov ops frigs I used to use before the introduction of T3s if I couldn't fit gang links on it.

Alot of people whining about off grid boosters being OP and unfair, even though they have been around for a very long time.

I don't think CCP is ready to pull the plug on off grid boosting, because the fact of the matter is ... There many accounts being plexed and paid for just so they can provide the boosts.

CCP is a business afterall and it isn't good for business to be making changes that will reduce their income. I for one don't really feel too strongly how this matter is resolved, but I will unsub my OGB toon if they remove off grid boosting. Thats $15 a month less income for CCP. I'm sure many other OGB alt owners feel the same.



I have a reasonable solution though.

If I worked at CCP I would do the following:

1. No boosting inside a POS bubble (this is just downright unfair)

2. T3s can only boost for around 5 pilots or so, limiting their use to small gangs only. Buff to small gang warfare, which is never a bad thing. Unless you are a blobbing noob.

3. Fleet Command ships keep their 3% bonus, but also can give bonuses to the entire fleet. Maybe even buff their survivability a bit.


POS whiners are happy, Small gangs are happy, and command ship pilots can perform their role without T3s getting in the way. Unsubs are minimal, and gameplay/balance/whatever is fixed.


EDIT:

I see alot of people agreeing with my second suggestion, the one which has the T3 only boost for a limited amount of people.

I honestly think that is a great idea and would like to see CCP do that if they do infact want to change the boosting mechanics. Anybody that thinks this is a bad idea I just assume to be a blobbing noob that can't stand small gang pvp.

It seems like the community (Forums, anyways..) are completely against anything that somehow effects their style of play without considering the other players who are also playing the same game. Look a couple threads over and people are raging about ASB and how they can't just blob somebody to make them go away. The threads are endless.

I encourage everybody in this thread to stop thinking about only your playstyle and instead think of how you can improve the game for everybody with a meaningful compromise.

I only have plans to use my OGB to fight outnumbered.

Using it in a 1v1 (2v1) like you talk about so much is like killing a noob in an ibis. No adrenaline, no fun.

Welcome to eve. Most people are not going to turn off their boosts for a 1v1 just so they get a fair fight and more adrenaline. Hell I admit that if I start using the alt I am working on I will not do that either any more than if a frigate engages my cruiser i won't off line a mid slot mod.

That is why what Baron vonDoom said is already happening in groups that do allot of small gang and solo pvp like faction war. Everyone needs to bring your booster alt to a plex or don't bother fighting for it. I'm not saying it happens in every system but it definetely happens in a few systems already. And the number of systems is growing.

The meta will keep changing. If OGBs are gone then the new meta will be to bring RR alts, or falcons... and if you don't do that then you will suck/lose/die Then we will see whines about that.

They can do that now but its easy to see they are doing that. So they get a reputation for it, and find they get very few fights after that. Plus since these ships have to be on grid people can bait them and kill their rr or falcon.

Booster ships are like remote reps that arent even on grid so its hard to know they are even there.

Try using d-scan real quickly.. see if there is a random tengu or loki on your scan when the fight is happening..

Once you do these few things and determine they have a booster... just have a trusty scanner next time you want to fight and nab yourself a tasty 600mil+ killmail, The booster should die in like 3 volleys.

But if the whiners get their way, enjoy your simplified eve. I heard somewhere that there is a conspiracy by CCP to make the game so easy that the people quitting WoW would actually want to play.

But if the whiners get their way, enjoy your simplified eve. I heard somewhere that there is a conspiracy by CCP to make the game so easy that the people quitting WoW would actually want to play.

I use OGB extensively, and hate them. They take time to set up properly before fights - off scan, etc, which takes away from the fluidity of combat when both sides are hesitant to engage before their boosters are in place. When using OGBs, you're either fighting other people with OGB's, in which case parity is maintained, or you're screwing with a blob of relatively incompetent players. I'll gladly take the nerf to fighting dumb blobs for not having to haul around a link alt just to keep up in goodfites with competent PvPers.

As for probing, people rarely try to probe OGB's if you set up the safespots properly, and if they do you've got plenty of time to see them coming and hop around safes. It's not hard to hit D-scan every 30 seconds or so in a fight.

Lastly, I have a lot of linked BC fits I'm dying to try out. Three man gang with Wing Commander/Squad Commander/Squad member a fleet can have two of their favorite links going on-grid on BC hulls without significant fitting nerfs, which sounds a hell of a lot more fun for everyone involved.

I use OGB extensively, and hate them. They take time to set up properly before fights - off scan, etc, which takes away from the fluidity of combat when both sides are hesitant to engage before their boosters are in place. When using OGBs, you're either fighting other people with OGB's, in which case parity is maintained, or you're screwing with a blob of relatively incompetent players. I'll gladly take the nerf to fighting dumb blobs for not having to haul around a link alt just to keep up in goodfites with competent PvPers.

As for probing, people rarely try to probe OGB's if you set up the safespots properly, and if they do you've got plenty of time to see them coming and hop around safes. It's not hard to hit D-scan every 30 seconds or so in a fight.

Lastly, I have a lot of linked BC fits I'm dying to try out. Three man gang with Wing Commander/Squad Commander/Squad member a fleet can have two of their favorite links going on-grid on BC hulls without significant fitting nerfs, which sounds a hell of a lot more fun for everyone involved.

A blob of some noobtards that has not brought OGBs now will clearly be even less likely to have the organisation/skills to bring on-grid boosts after the change, therefore the mystical small-gang vs blob warfare will still be possible and far off from a catastrophy.

Fitting an Interdiction Maneuvers II Link instead of neuts works without problems on a Hurricane, throw a mindlink into your head and you can boost 90% of what an offgrid Loki would boost with it. You can't tell me that 10% loss are that much of a terrible catastrophy.

I admit that this is a valid viewpoint, and the commentary on shuffling your gang boosts around is definitely one of the things that makes me somewhat eager to get gang boosts only on grid. However, I feel that simply moving them on grid is going to work out like this:
- Blob vs Blob: Kinda meaningless
- Blob vs Small Gang: Great for blob, catastrophic for small gang
- Small gang vs Small gang: Great for stand and fight gangs like the Damnation fits in to and crappy for everyone else.
- ****** experience for whoever is gang boosting because the ships that fit them are kinda crap and very unengaging. It'll probably still be altsville.

And that's why I'd be more in favor of the outright removal of all gang bonuses than simply moving them on grid - despite the fact I have ~25M SP in leadership and have repeatedly trained CS5. So let's do something about the problems and then I think most people will be happy.

-Liang

By keeping it for the time being, you're killing off an entire generation of new eve pilots that didn't join via SA forums.

Then delete leadership bonuses entirely. I'm fine with that.

-Liang

I absolutely agree that there has to be any advatage to bring smaller numbers instead of a blob - be it mass-based spool timers on gates or anything else.

I think it's a historical thing - band of devs owned goons using bigger ships and T2, goons took over, monopolized the T2 market and called for nerfs to anything big.

Bigger numbers remained entirely unaffected by this and helped any meaningful pvp to become the brainless 'ctrl+click broadcast list, hit F1' fiasco we currently have.

Yes - offgrid boosting is an equalizer for the numberwise over-exponential fleet effectivity we curently face, but hurts even smaller/newer groups way more.

By keeping it for the time being, you're killing off an entire generation of new eve pilots that didn't join via SA forums.

Or they just make it on-grid as the "boost" to blobs will be barely noticable.

P.S: More examples of how the blob is catastrophically boosted pls

Or they just make it on-grid as the "boost" to blobs will be barely noticable.

P.S: More examples of how the blob is catastrophically boosted pls

Personally I don't care if OGBs exist or not. The only thing I care about (and most of the pro-ogb pilots here) is the changes effect on small gang pvp. If CCP can somehow fix this problem without buffing blobs then I'd be happy with it.

Even if they removed boosting entirely I'd be cool. But we both know that is very unlikely.

I don't particularly like boosting at all, but if CCP is going to go forward with this balancing of boosting then I think they should do something along the lines of my OP. Unless there is a better idea that anybody has which doesn't give another unneeded buff to blobs then I won't change my mind and I'll keep posting until my keyboard turns to dust (514).

Any numbers limit you put on ingame fleets will easily be circumvented breaking down the fleet into multiple small gangs, neglecting any disadaventage using OOG comms. Hence your proposal is naive and futile.

Nevertheless, offgrid boosting hurts the smallest guy first and is flat out a wrong and abusive mechanic. I can live with a complete removal of any gangboosts, but offgrid boosting has to die.


(And in case I didn't mention it before, I have 2 characters with close to perfect leadership skills (never really bothered with information warfare links), CS V and flying multiple T3s with all subsystems @ V).