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Iraherag
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Posted - 2011.01.09 12:16:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Ben Alman
Edited by: Ben Alman on 09/01/2011 12:12:45
Well pvp is really not tha great in WoW but I don't know anything that could be a danger to WoW on the PvE side.
But what I wanted to say is that an MMO developer once said (I think he was from the SWToR team).
"Once an MMO passes a certain amount of minimum subscribers it is profitable and wont get more profitable because for new subscriptions you need more servers support etc."
So it isn't really necessary to strife for high subscription numbers (apart from more epeen i guess^^)
Edit: and why does this forum have to have its "REPort" button where every other one has its "REPly to" button  Sorry guys
That's exactly the kind of information you better not share (makes you look like an automaton "DOH, I always click at this location").
If you don't make more profit with 1 billion Dollar revenue than you do with 1 million Dollar revenue, you should really try to do something different(ly).
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Ruby Udders
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Posted - 2011.01.09 12:17:00 -
[32]
EVE is "a pvp hardcore, i-get-blown-up-everytime-i-undock game".
Why is this so hard to understand?
Furthermore it doesn't cater to the lowest common denominator like WoW does. It's quite obvious in my opinion.
Be safe, be cynical |
Serge Bastana
Gallente
GWA Corp
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Posted - 2011.01.09 12:20:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Ruby Udders
EVE is "a pvp hardcore, i-get-blown-up-everytime-i-undock game".
Why is this so hard to understand?
Furthermore it doesn't cater to the lowest common denominator like WoW does. It's quite obvious in my opinion.
Precisely, WoW is Follywood cinema while EVE is more like some grubby art house cinema showing Ichi the Killer :D
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You either need a punch up the throat or a good shag.
Nobody round here is offering the second one therefore your choices are limited! |
Ben Alman
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Posted - 2011.01.09 12:22:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Ben Alman on 09/01/2011 12:25:00
Originally by: Iraherag
That's exactly the kind of information you better not share (makes you look like an automaton "DOH, I always click at this location").
If you don't make more profit with 1 billion Dollar revenue than you do with 1 million Dollar revenue, you should really try to do something different(ly).
I don't really care ;) 3 of 5 letters in common on the same spot. That's nothing I'm ashamed of.
And since CCP is making new forums it may be a good idea to mention the flaws of the old one.
CCP: where even the Forum tries to scam you!
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Cailais
Amarr
Random Pirate's
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Posted - 2011.01.09 12:33:00 -
[35]
Actually I don't think its the people who get blown up as noobs who quit. Those players get that EVE is different and start surviving, fighting back and want to learn more.
The players who leave are those whom nothing happens too; they're "what's the point of this game?".
I would think it would be quite a good idea to give new players a chance to dip into something like Faction Warfare - if only briefly - so they can experience more of the pew pew goodness EVE has to offer.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2011.01.09 13:04:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Ben Alman
Edited by: Ben Alman on 09/01/2011 12:12:45
Well pvp is really not tha great in WoW but I don't know anything that could be a danger to WoW on the PvE side.
But what I wanted to say is that an MMO developer once said (I think he was from the SWToR team).
"Once an MMO passes a certain amount of minimum subscribers it is profitable and wont get more profitable because for new subscriptions you need more servers support etc."
So it isn't really necessary to strife for high subscription numbers (apart from more epeen i guess^^)
no, that's not really true. There is a basic amount of players needed to maintain some profitability, but server costs don't scale that heavily. Plus, development costs don't expand linearly with subscriber base past a certain point; once you're pushing out a certain amount of content per year, you don't need to expand further. tl,dr: Large MMOs rake in the cash.
as support, consider the following: blizzard spend roughly $50-60 million per year ($200 million from 04-08) maintaining WoW.
They have something like 12? million subscribers at ~15USD per month, for around $2 billion per year in revenue (ignoring the biannual $40 expansions which are also worth a fair sum).
This means they're spending less than 5% of the actual subscription fees they get to maintain and grow WoW. They could lower sub fees to $1.50/month, give out free expansions, and they would still be making double their money 
_____________________
Look down. Back up. Where are you? You're on a forum, with the alt your alt could post like. |
Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2011.01.09 13:04:00 -
[37]
There's roughly 3 types of PVP MMO noobs, classified by RL analogies:
1) those who get their teeth smashed and decide to join a gang to get their revenge
2) those who get their teeth smashed and decide to learn martial arts to be able to defend themselves
3) those who run to their mommy or simply accept their fate
EVE appeals to the first 2 types. Other games want to keep a large part of type 3) noobs too, so they simply protect them from getting their teeth smashed. But how honest would it be towards the new player to show him a cozy world in the beginning just to bait him into a subscription, so he can get his teeth smashed and ragequit later? :-P
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Sovereign533
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2011.01.09 13:24:00 -
[38]
ok, i'll feed the troll...
only reason why WoW has become to massive is mainly because of 3 reasons
1. MASSIVE amount of world wide commercials
2. Warcraft 1/2/3 players
3. being a company with a name known for their polish
CCP didn't do any of this, it's CCP's first game. so no old fanbase to transfer to the new game. because it's their first game, CCP wasn't known for anything. and they didn't do massive world wide commercials.
it has nothing to do with game mechanics. they aren't new, not at all. they just build on systems that already existed. wow isn't the creative masterpiece you make it out to be. it's just copy/pasted stuff from previous games.
you can't really compare wow with eve...
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Dorkus Americanus
The Laugh Factory
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Posted - 2011.01.09 13:28:00 -
[39]
OP used the word "GUILD", he he he. Explains a lot. 
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Stanislas Corsican
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Posted - 2011.01.09 13:33:00 -
[40]
At this point, trying to "beat" WoW has more to do with sociology than game design. It would be like trying to engineer a social networking site to "beat" Facebook.
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Foxgguy2001
Gallente
Second Hand Lions
Redneck Rage
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Posted - 2011.01.09 13:55:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Minermemememe
Still this mmo has been designed around this failed MMO mechanic and I suppose that there is nothing that they can do about it now.
If it's the thought of inescapable death as a newbie (or even seasoned) player or griefing that keeps the 'wow***s' or the like from becoming New Eden residents then I couldn't be happier those mechanics exist, this game is certainly not for them. It's interesting, your contemplation on the matter fails to take into account, if losing your ship/getting podded were insignificant then we would likely get more residents who are just looking for some quick fun...meaning more griefers/pirates.
More importantly, for that great majority you feel joins war-decked corps straight off and swears off Eve after the unavoidable slaughter that you believe most new New Eden residents experience...without asking a single question or quick google search as to why it happened... good riddance. As if that's the case they are little more than a worthless wreck or a decent LOLFIT waiting to happen. You believe they are going to check attrib's on everything? Fit there ship properly? It takes a lot of work, and knowledge, it's an investment. We don't want those who want all the fun and rewards from brainless mouse/keyboard mashing.
Eve rewards the intelligent, informed, and the commited. Working as intended.
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Archbeholder
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Posted - 2011.01.09 13:59:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Foxgguy2001
we would likely get more residents who are just looking for some quick fun...
How DARE they seek fun in eve!?!
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Joss56
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2011.01.09 14:21:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Serge Bastana
And a good portion of the alleged 13 million WoW subscriptions are either gold farmers or 13 year olds who confuse the 'Ding' when they level up with the 'Ding' of the microwave door opening when dinner is ready.
I knew this was a troll when I read the post title.
How you can be completly wrong, the average age of the wow subcriber is higher than Eve one, this explains a lot about how Eve players base manage their own game  and certainly wy after so many years there just a few subscribers and a lot of them don't even pay their account (hey Plex, PLex are you there?)
________________________________________________
"You do realise you live on a globe, right? And that there places outside the USA/UK?"
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Foxgguy2001
Gallente
Second Hand Lions
Redneck Rage
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Posted - 2011.01.09 14:33:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Archbeholder
How DARE they seek fun in eve!?!
I was speaking toward a specific means of enjoyment...good try with the out-of-context quote and sarcasm and all... I'd applaud your attempt if it were at least creative. |
Captain Megadeath
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Posted - 2011.01.09 14:38:00 -
[45]
Dear OP,
There is a space "MMO" which covers your needs precisely. It's forum had over 6 million accounts and was based on a popular show. There was no grind and there was no death penalty. Just right in your eyes.
That "MMO" Was Star Trek online.
But what the developers hid was that even though they touted numbers in the millions is that only 120,000 people subscribed. When that was revealed and paralleled to EvE, they said give us time. Now they have less than 60,000 subscribers.
So be honest. Your idea of a new direction for EvE is fail. When a pampered p***y joins EvE or any other MMO and his pixels asploded then they run away, simple fact. For those p***ys there is always Hello Kitty Online.
Bad troll 1/10.
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails
my name actually is short for catherine
Yeah, Katie Door perhaps...... lol
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Serge Bastana
Gallente
GWA Corp
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Posted - 2011.01.09 14:44:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Joss56
Originally by: Serge Bastana
And a good portion of the alleged 13 million WoW subscriptions are either gold farmers or 13 year olds who confuse the 'Ding' when they level up with the 'Ding' of the microwave door opening when dinner is ready.
I knew this was a troll when I read the post title.
How you can be completly wrong, the average age of the wow subcriber is higher than Eve one, this explains a lot about how Eve players base manage their own game and certainly wy after so many years there just a few subscribers and a lot of them don't even pay their account (hey Plex, PLex are you there?)
Whatever their age they still salivate like Pavlov's dogs when something goes 'Ding'. We don't cater for them. I'd be interested to see the age demographic though, if you could back your claim up with some evidence that might be useful :)
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You either need a punch up the throat or a good shag.
Nobody round here is offering the second one therefore your choices are limited! |
Captain Megadeath
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Posted - 2011.01.09 15:16:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Joss56
a lot of them don't even pay their account (hey Plex, PLex are you there?)
Suprise, suprise. Yet another alt sockpuppet cannot grasp the simple fact that PLEX do not appear from thin air. 
For that PLEX to exist someone has to either purchase it from CCP or to create it from an ETC bought from a time code site. No matter where it comes from, monies has to change hands with CCP somewhere in the chain to pay for it.
CCP - PLEX seller - PLEX Buyer
CCP - ETC site - ETC Buyer (PLEX creation) - PLEX Buyer.
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails
my name actually is short for catherine
Yeah, Katie Door perhaps...... lol
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TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Extreme Prejudice.
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Posted - 2011.01.09 15:19:00 -
[48]
I will pay 10mil for this mans corpse.
Either a ****ing troll or stupid should leave my spaceship game.
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Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor Elite
PWNED THEORY
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Posted - 2011.01.09 15:38:00 -
[49]
God... could you imagine 13M subscribers playing EVE? 
[Shudders]
That would be horrible...
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Captain Megadeath
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Posted - 2011.01.09 15:39:00 -
[50]
Originally by: TimMc
I will pay 10mil for this mans corpse.
Either a ****ing troll or stupid should leave my spaceship game.
I found Minermemememe for you
From: ***** ********
Sent: 2011.01.09 15:37
The scumsucker is located at Cistuvaert V - Moon 12 - Center for Advanced Studies School station in the Cistuvaert system, Anwyns constellation of Verge Vendor region.
With regards,
***** ********.
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails
my name actually is short for catherine
Yeah, Katie Door perhaps...... lol
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DuKackBoon
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Posted - 2011.01.09 15:46:00 -
[51]
Edited by: DuKackBoon on 09/01/2011 15:45:54
Originally by: Minermemememe
Edited by: Minermemememe on 09/01/2011 11:23:33
Eve has the makings of a killer MMO. Very nice gameplay mechanics, it is set in space which appeals to a lot of people, and the bigger my ship becomes, the shinier it gets.
People don't like dying. especially in this MMO because the cost of dying is obscene. WOW has proved that the hardcore grind mentality wont get u a lot of subscribers. Still this mmo has been designed around this failed MMO mechanic and I suppose that there is nothing that they can do about it now. They got caught designing this MMO in the oppossite way when the wow behemoth arrived, so they got clobbered hard. 350k subs compared to wow's 13 million? Quantity doesn't equal Quality. McDonalds food isn't the best, you know?
Also, aside from the grind design, the real reason why subs never go into the wow numbers is because unlike other MMOs out there, this once actually caters to griefers. I guessed whoever design this thing think its fun to throw level 1 guys in an arena with level 85s. lol. Indeed it is. But I've seen "level 1" guys horribly embarrass "level 80" guys. This is actually what makes EVE GOOD.
There's also so many possibilities that a new player can get his azz kicked without him ever learning that there is more to the game. Picture this, new player comes in and is still doing tutorials. Someone invites him to a corp and since he wants to be friendly, he joins up. Now, as it happens, that corp has war declarations from a lot of pvp hardcore guilds out there who would love nothing more than to go to newbie tranining ground and blow the living crap out of the newbies. So this newbie, who's still in tutorial, don't know whats going on. he only knows some guy with the red star keeps blowing him up every time he hits the undock button. Forums and Tutorials exist for a reason. If he doesn't check them him self, he may as well keep getting blown up into ragequitting. We won't miss him.
He gets mad and quits the game since he thinks thats all there is to it, getting blown up by players with red star in their names. Not only that he tells every one he knows of the awful experience that he's had. Word of mouth quickly will give the impression that eve is a pvp hardcore, i-get-blown-up-everytime-i-undock game. Too bad guys, you have a great space graphic game here and good gameplay mechanics but you missed it big time in the new player experience. And finally, the necessary trollololol: This thread is bad and you should feel bad about it.
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.01.09 15:46:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Captain Megadeath
Originally by: TimMc
I will pay 10mil for this mans corpse.
Either a ****ing troll or stupid should leave my spaceship game.
I found Minermemememe for you
From: ***** ********
Sent: 2011.01.09 15:37
The scumsucker is located at Cistuvaert V - Moon 12 - Center for Advanced Studies School station in the Cistuvaert system, Anwyns constellation of Verge Vendor region.
With regards,
***** ********.
I'ts highly doubtful he will ever undock. Probably already biomassed the troll alt by now.
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Lord Dragonmede
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Posted - 2011.01.09 16:07:00 -
[53]
Oh pleez somebody tell me where the wormhole entrance to WoW Space is so that I can bubblecamp it, or at least scorch it closed?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.01.09 16:15:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Lord Dragonmede
Oh pleez somebody tell me where the wormhole entrance to WoW Space is so that I can bubblecamp it, or at least scorch it closed?
Or just smartbomb it.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.01.09 16:18:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Lord Dragonmede
Oh pleez somebody tell me where the wormhole entrance to WoW Space is so that I can bubblecamp it, or at least scorch it closed?
Or just smartbomb it.
Now we know were wow got the idea for cataclysm. Smartbomb raven = Generic dragon of ultimate doom.
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Tyke Orlieveit
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Posted - 2011.01.09 16:25:00 -
[56]
I shouldn't feed the trolls, but frag it..
Originally by: Minermemememe
Edited by: Minermemememe on 09/01/2011 11:23:33
Eve has the makings of a killer MMO. Very nice gameplay mechanics, it is set in space which appeals to a lot of people, and the bigger my ship becomes, the shinier it gets.
And the more risk you instantly assume in having it. Imagine WoW where you could kill and loot the epics of the back of those annoying lvl 85's with a swarm of 10-20's, because the penalties of being bigger and harder mean that you can't always hit the little ones that are mobbing you. Hell, I'd consider going back for that kind of fun.
Originally by: Minermemememe
People don't like dying. especially in this MMO because the cost of dying is obscene. WOW has proved that the hardcore grind mentality wont get u a lot of subscribers. Still this mmo has been designed around this failed MMO mechanic and I suppose that there is nothing that they can do about it now. They got caught designing this MMO in the oppossite way when the wow behemoth arrived, so they got clobbered hard. 350k subs compared to wow's 13 million?
Quantity does not a quality game make. Just because you have 13 million subscribers ( By the way, please verify how many of them are "Live" subs, how many are trial accounts no-one's proceeded on, etc, and evidence before you post ) doesn't mean it's the be-all and end-all of MMO's. You don't like dying? This probably isn't the game for you.
Originally by: Minermemememe
Also, aside from the grind design, the real reason why subs never go into the wow numbers is because unlike other MMOs out there, this once actually caters to griefers. I guessed whoever design this thing think its fun to throw level 1 guys in an arena with level 85s. lol.
See an earlier point, where a character in the TRIAL phase can have an impact on fleet battles. You're comparing apples and oranges, and 2 completely different game mechanics and styles.
Originally by: Minermemememe
There's also so many possibilities that a new player can get his azz kicked without him ever learning that there is more to the game. Picture this, new player comes in and is still doing tutorials. Someone invites him to a corp and since he wants to be friendly, he joins up. Now, as it happens, that corp has war declarations from a lot of pvp hardcore guilds out there who would love nothing more than to go to newbie tranining ground and blow the living crap out of the newbies. So this newbie, who's still in tutorial, don't know whats going on. he only knows some guy with the red star keeps blowing him up every time he hits the undock button.
Since you're obsessing with the World of ****craft example, we'll keep going.
Read the 'Lore'. The universe you are in is horrible, cut-throat and uncaring. You live, and learn. Your early clone doesn't need upgrading for a short while, so the mistakes in the earliest days are cheap. If this isn't the game style for you, HTFU or GTFO. You talk in the chat channels and learn what's happening. First time I played this, I had no idea WTF I was doing, nearly got and got blown to hell many times. I'm still here many years later, and my main character's kills to losses is pretty painful, I've certainly lost more than I've killed.
--More to follow
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Tyke Orlieveit
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Posted - 2011.01.09 16:29:00 -
[57]
-- Part 2
Originally by: Minermemememe
He gets mad and quits the game since he thinks thats all there is to it, getting blown up by players with red star in their names. Not only that he tells every one he knows of the awful experience that he's had. Word of mouth quickly will give the impression that eve is a pvp hardcore, i-get-blown-up-everytime-i-undock game. Too bad guys, you have a great space graphic game here and good gameplay mechanics but you missed it big time in the new player experience.
Or people who are interested in the game style you are selling go "WTF, cool!", and are interested. I was pulled in by someone telling me pretty much that kind of story. This game is NOT designed/sold/targeted to people who love to play games like World of ****craft, the games and the styles and dynamics are completely different.. and I wouldn't have it any other way.
In short, in a TL&DR style.
HTFU or GTFO our spaceship game, give me your stuff before you go, and go back to World of ****craft and enjoy yourself, stop wasting the database space that could be better used for keeping a log of how many times I've wiped my ass than your existence. 
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Medarr
Amarr
ZeroSec
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Posted - 2011.01.09 17:21:00 -
[58]
/AFKCLOAKS
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Uzrial
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Posted - 2011.01.09 17:25:00 -
[59]
The learning curve for this game is astronomical. Training time is quite slow. A large factor I would have to say would be the ability to see all these fancy ships, mods and other things on market and contracts and then find out it will take you months or even years to use them. Also c'mon, we are all *******s. It takes a more mature player to deal with us.
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Drakarin
Gallente
Absentia Libertas Solus
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Posted - 2011.01.09 17:28:00 -
[60]
I'm a hardcore carebear, and I wish the game was harsher. No, this game has some problems, but it being "cruel and difficult" isn't one of them. There are so many ways to avoid pvp, the only thing that's dangerous in low sec are gate camps, and even those can either be entirely avoided through the use of an alt, or a friend scouting. You can also power through if you're quick and a bit lucky.
Beyond that, safespot up, if you see combat probes out, make a new safespot a bit away, keep doing your thing, eventually they will move on.
I think the fact that death has meaning is a very good thing, because it motivates you to stay alive. In WoW I have several thousand deaths, why? Because death has absolutely no penalty at all. I could care less if I live or die. I hate that. Personally I think insurance should be removed to increase the sting of death.
This game just isn't for you, and that's fine. This game was made for a specific niche, it wasn't created to be a clone of WoW in space.
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