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Why this game has crappy newbie retention rate compared to other MMO?

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Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2011.01.10 04:17:00 - [91] IDK my son quit runescape when he was 10 years old (3years ago) because they nerfed the game so he couldn't lure people out to the woods , axe them and steal their stuff (i never played it myself..) If he played eve he'd be goon I guess. but the whole experience turned him off entirely from mmo's I think .. the idea of a safe world just lost his interest even as a twerpy kid. If you want to go intellectual on it google up some Richard Bartle pieces about the cost of dying and its importance in a vitural world.
Iraherag	Posted - 2011.01.10 07:50:00 - [92] Originally by: Kerfira If a market leader has the market well sown up, only an idiot tries to compete when you have only limited resources. Hold on a minute, I'm calling the guys with unlimited resources right away... Originally by: Kerfira Failtroll is fail How right you are...
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2011.01.10 09:04:00 - [93] Originally by: Archbeholder No, number of subscribers means everything as it directly relates to money income. And when eve has 35k average online with 75k total subscriptions in comparison to 12kk active subscriptions of wow it tells that eve developers/management are not doing their job well, intended or not. EVE online is the only MMO I am interested in. Everything else out there is risk free grind fest in which players have zero impact upon the world. To me EVE is the best of them all for my tastes. Also your numbers are very wrong.
Afrid Zaror	Posted - 2011.01.10 09:12:00 - [94] It has crappy newbie retention because it's so complex that the text tutorial is overwhelming, and the only way people will stick it out and wade through the monumental confusion that lasts around 2 weeks or so, is if they've read about the game properly and know what awaits them when they do finally "get it". If there was a better tutorial, maybe that hot chick's voice instead of text, and video showing where to click, for example, when queing up a skill, fitting a module, setting up a production job, then the newbie retention rates would probably go up dramatically. There's EVE university which'll give you good lessons in getting started, and if you have a friend who can talk you through it over a microphone that's good too, but aside from that, if newbies would just read the tutorial like I did, and ask sensible questions instead of "How to fire?", giving away that they haven't read the tutorial, therefore testing peoples' patience and reducing the chances of them getting help, then they'd be fine. There are a lot of helpful people in the newbie corps, I regularly spend an hour at a time in private conversation with people explaining this and that, they just need to present a qurestion that the very, very first word of the very, very first tutorial doesn't answer.
Kelkam	Posted - 2011.01.10 09:23:00 - [95] They should make two games... If the wow'd up kiddie one gets more subs than nerdy version, then great...more money for ccp... but who wants bajazillions of dollars? amiright?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.01.10 09:43:00 - [96] Edited by: Tippia on 10/01/2011 09:46:07 Originally by: Minermemememe "They will never grow to the size of WOW", that is like WOW. So you're content by being the garbage guy for the rest of your life? What country do you live in? I never seen so much defeatism, no hope for the future, being content with the miserable state that you live in? Again, wrong analogy. WoW is the menial-task average-joe wageslave. EVE is the devil-may-care adrenaline junkie you see in fancily edited X-named TV shows who spend all day throwing themselves off of powdery-snow mountain tops (or sand dunes or ocean waves or cityscapes) all across the word with various odd and wondrous pieces of locomotive tech strapped to themselves, who spend all evening wooing large-busted chalet girls or [insert geographically equivalent imagery] and who then spend all nightsà doing other thingsà Who knows where they get the money, and who cares? It's great entertainment and they're having the time of their lives. The large mass are not defeatist ù they're already defeated, and the most thrilling comparable thing they have to look forward to is a generic-brand watery lager at an alp-themed steakhouse. Oh, I suppose some of them feel a great thrill filling out expense reports ù they might be able to squeeze an extra $5 out of the company and no-one will know! The fact that there's a crapton more of them doesn't much improve their miserable lot in life. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Neuge	Posted - 2011.01.10 09:59:00 - [97] Edited by: Neuge on 10/01/2011 09:59:17 So, all games should have equal subscriber amounts as WoW? I don't really understand the point of this thread... Why should one company that is aimed at a particular style of play fold over just because one fantasy MMO enthusiast kid wants it to be like WoW, where is the damn variety? One of the larger reasons WoW has so many subscribers isn't because of it's fantastic content or game mechanics, but because it's advertised so bloody well and has a theme which lures in kids and/or troubled adults. The third paragraph shows how you truely do not know anything about the game, such a dull, one angled perspective that someone would produce after 3 days of gameplay and getting mad over his retriever loss.
Serge Bastana Gallente GWA Corp	Posted - 2011.01.10 10:01:00 - [98] Originally by: Afrid Zaror It has crappy newbie retention because it's so complex that the text tutorial is overwhelming, and the only way people will stick it out and wade through the monumental confusion that lasts around 2 weeks or so, is if they've read about the game properly and know what awaits them when they do finally "get it". If there was a better tutorial, maybe that hot chick's voice instead of text, and video showing where to click, for example, when queing up a skill, fitting a module, setting up a production job, then the newbie retention rates would probably go up dramatically. There's EVE university which'll give you good lessons in getting started, and if you have a friend who can talk you through it over a microphone that's good too, but aside from that, if newbies would just read the tutorial like I did, and ask sensible questions instead of "How to fire?", giving away that they haven't read the tutorial, therefore testing peoples' patience and reducing the chances of them getting help, then they'd be fine. There are a lot of helpful people in the newbie corps, I regularly spend an hour at a time in private conversation with people explaining this and that, they just need to present a qurestion that the very, very first word of the very, very first tutorial doesn't answer. I spent a while reading the forums and learning about the game before I actually started playing and the fact that you aren't bubblewrapped or have your hand held was what helped me decide to take the plunge and get into the game. I agree that the tutorials could be improved, but they've already improved them somewhat from when I first tried the trial back in '07, so there is hope that they will refine them further to provide more information about the initial amount of information that many new players encounter. And as to the OP's false claim that CCP are the garbage men of the game world, well, it's a dirty job and someone has to do it :D ------------------------------------------------ You either need a punch up the throat or a good shag. Nobody round here is offering the second one therefore your choices are limited!
Terion Fierceglade	Posted - 2011.01.10 10:06:00 - [99] I'm a fairly new player and everyday I see people in the Rookie channel every day asking questions like "is 1 Mil ISK the equivalent of 1 WoW gold?". It's like the only way to understand how another MMO works is to compare it with WoW. I've played WoW for almost 5 years and I would never try to compare it with a game like EVE, especially since I know the fundamental difference is the sandbox play. EVE is the toyfactory where you make your toys and entertain yourself with everything that is available to you. World of Warcraft and similar MMOs have everything ready for you and you can jump into it right away; only string attached is the entry ticket which differs between the rides. I like both types of game. Right now I've decided I will try EVE for a while and see what happens.
Archbeholder	Posted - 2011.01.10 10:18:00 - [100] Originally by: Terion Fierceglade sandbox play. "Sandbox" is a pretty word to describe lack of content.
Jaina Sunspot Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.10 10:23:00 - [101] Originally by: Archbeholder "Sandbox" is a pretty word to describe lack of content. Sandbox means content is equal to your creativity. Perhaps you would enjoy a game where the content is mapped out by smarter more interesting people instead of finding your own niche and enjoying it.
Terion Fierceglade	Posted - 2011.01.10 10:58:00 - [102] Originally by: Archbeholder "Sandbox" is a pretty word to describe lack of content. On the contrary. It means you make up your own content and it can be as fun or boring as you want it to be. Compared to the "fun park" philosophy games like WoW incorporate, where the content is what you get and use but you can't really make it your own.
McRoll Minmatar The Legion of Darkness	Posted - 2011.01.10 11:10:00 - [103] For me, Eve has a lot of content.
Buck Marui Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.01.10 11:11:00 - [104] EVE will never rival WoW simply because the hardware does not exist, and probably never will in our lifetime, EVE is already pushing the boundaries and suffering for it, it is not because of faulty game mechanics that EVE is becoming "stale" but simply becuase the technology does not exist to take it further yet. A year or so down the line EVE will attract another 100k subscribers and then become too big for itself and will have to wait another year for better hardware. Rinse and repeat. Obviously CCP knew this when they decided on the single universe model and so attempting to compare EVE to WoW in any way is just pointless, EVE is a marvel of the technology/game industry, it pushes the boundaries in almost everything it does, WoW is just a game (for better or worst) Ultimately you have to take this to a company level, instead of WoW and EVE you should compare Blizzard to CCP, but not until both companies are worth the same (I.E in the same league) Blizzard have done well in creating a game for everyone, unfortunately it means the next game they release is simply going to be juggling there subscribers from WoW, CCP have/are creating multiple games of differing genres to attract different demographics, any number of internet smartguys and marketing gurus would tell you the preferable method for success here. So next time you decide to compare WoW to EVE, don't. Instead compare WoW to EVE, dust 514 and World of Darkness.
Iamien Democracy of Klingon Brothers R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.01.10 11:21:00 - [105] Edited by: Iamien on 10/01/2011 11:23:28 Originally by: Buck Marui So next time you decide to compare WoW to EVE, don't. Instead compare WoW to EVE, dust 514 and World of Darkness. Because WoW is the only title that Blizzard has.... Your not helping your argument man. Also we know next to nothing about Dust or WoD.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.01.10 11:32:00 - [106] Originally by: Iamien Because WoW is the only title that Blizzard has.... It's their only MMO. What he's asking you to do is think about how many people they'd lose from WoW if they created World of [some other IP of theirs] with the same universal appealà Comparing CCP and Blizzard doesn't work because Blizzard goes for that universal appeal, whereas CCP does not. The numbers become incomparable because they measure completely different things. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Terion Fierceglade	Posted - 2011.01.10 11:33:00 - [107] Edited by: Terion Fierceglade on 10/01/2011 11:34:22 Originally by: Iamien Edited by: Iamien on 10/01/2011 11:23:28Because WoW is the only title that Blizzard has.... Do you know any other MMOs Blizzard are running?
Iamien Democracy of Klingon Brothers R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.01.10 11:37:00 - [108] Originally by: Terion Fierceglade Edited by: Terion Fierceglade on 10/01/2011 11:34:22 Originally by: Iamien Edited by: Iamien on 10/01/2011 11:23:28Because WoW is the only title that Blizzard has.... Do you know any other MMOs Blizzard are running? I don't see how SC2 would be any less of an MMO than Dust 514. Also it is hard to count WoD when the only trailer for is only available in cam quality.
Jaina Sunspot Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.10 11:38:00 - [109] Edited by: Jaina Sunspot on 10/01/2011 11:40:26 Originally by: Iamien Because WoW is the only title that Blizzard has.... Your not helping your argument man. Also we know next to nothing about Dust or WoD. No it isn't which is why Activision Blizzard can throw Devs like candy at WOW. CCP doesn't have that, infact EVE is there only game that is finished out and making them money. You want an Activition Blizzard ammount of content, donate enough so CCP has the same budget. CCP: Total assets US$43,837,015 at 31 December 2008 Activision BlizzarsTotal assets US$13.7 billion FY 2009 Notice the small gap between the two companies, we will probably never have WOW level content. But since CCP like 90% of every other MMO do not have a increda rich parent company with years of experience accross multible genres, CCP does better then anyone would have thought.
Terion Fierceglade	Posted - 2011.01.10 11:41:00 - [110] Originally by: Iamien I don't see how SC2 would be any less of an MMO than Dust 514. Then there's really no point for you to be having this discussion with anyone here. At least not until you open your eyes and stop being ignorant.
Iamien Democracy of Klingon Brothers R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.01.10 11:44:00 - [111] Edited by: Iamien on 10/01/2011 11:45:16 Originally by: Terion Fierceglade Originally by: Iamien I don't see how SC2 would be any less of an MMO than Dust 514. Then there's really no point for you to be having this discussion with anyone here. At least not until you open your eyes and stop being ignorant. Do you really believe that CCP is making a FPS with persistent battlefields instead of the standard "12v12 or "20v20" instanced battlefields? Lobbies where no gameplay takes place is not part of the gameworld.
Terion Fierceglade	Posted - 2011.01.10 11:52:00 - [112] Originally by: Iamien Do you really believe that CCP is making a FPS with persistent battlefields instead of the standard "12v12 or "20v20" instanced battlefields? Lobbies where no gameplay takes place is not part of the gameworld. Starcraft II has nothing in common with World of Warcraft whereas Dust is a tie-in to the EVE universe. Can you see the difference?
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.01.10 11:57:00 - [113] Originally by: Minermemememe Originally by: OneTimeAt BannedSpank I didn't read the op and it's 99% likely to be a troll anyway but we don't need more people in game anyway so who cares. Protip: Wait till your portrait has generated on the servers before posting 'with experience' you dont but I think CCP has a different opinion Indeed, CCP doesn't want more paying customers. In fact, I think they'd ideally be doing all this for 1 person.
Iamien Democracy of Klingon Brothers R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.01.10 12:04:00 - [114] Originally by: Terion Fierceglade Originally by: Iamien Do you really believe that CCP is making a FPS with persistent battlefields instead of the standard "12v12 or "20v20" instanced battlefields? Lobbies where no gameplay takes place is not part of the gameworld. Starcraft II has nothing in common with World of Warcraft whereas Dust is a tie-in to the EVE universe. Can you see the difference? That does not make Dust 514 a MMO, sorry. Also Your realID friends for wow are also your friends in Starcraft 2.
Buck Marui Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.01.10 12:04:00 - [115] Originally by: Iamien Edited by: Iamien on 10/01/2011 11:23:28 Originally by: Buck Marui So next time you decide to compare WoW to EVE, don't. Instead compare WoW to EVE, dust 514 and World of Darkness. Because WoW is the only title that Blizzard has.... Your not helping your argument man. Also we know next to nothing about Dust or WoD. On the contrary that was my point, see below. "Ultimately you have to take this to a company level, instead of WoW and EVE you should compare Blizzard to CCP, but not until both companies are worth the same (I.E in the same league)"
Archbeholder	Posted - 2011.01.10 12:07:00 - [116] Originally by: Buck Marui So next time you decide to compare WoW to EVE, don't. Instead compare WoW to EVE, dust 514 and World of Darkness. EVE+dust+wod=75k subscriptions vs wow=12kk Originally by: Jaina Sunspot No it isn't which is why Activision Blizzard can throw Devs like candy at WOW. CCP doesn't have that, infact EVE is there only game that is finished out and making them money. You want an Activition Blizzard ammount of content, donate enough so CCP has the same budget. CCP: Total assets US$43,837,015 at 31 December 2008 Activision BlizzarsTotal assets US$13.7 billion FY 2009 Notice the small gap between the two companies, we will probably never have WOW level content. But since CCP like 90% of every other MMO do not have a increda rich parent company with years of experience accross multible genres, CCP does better then anyone would have thought. As much as money equals more content I'd like to point out that core game mechanincs don't cost a fortune to tweak. Things like removing griefing and scamming potential would attract a lot of people to eve, and more importantly KEEP them playing for more than 14 days of trial.
Jaina Sunspot Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.10 12:12:00 - [117] Originally by: Archbeholder As much as money equals more content I'd like to point out that core game mechanincs don't cost a fortune to tweak. Things like removing griefing and scamming potential would attract a lot of people to eve, and more importantly KEEP them playing for more than 14 days of trial. As well as removing a large part of there client base that has little issue with it but enjoys the danger of it. This all considering that EVE could get that flood of new subscriptions. EVE is still a niche and the go anywhere do anything no rules set in stone style is what holds people to this game despite lack of content. Most Noobs do not die to Griefers in the trial, there are fewer instances of that then people think. It is the ones who are board with the lack of gameplay who leave.
Buck Marui Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.01.10 12:12:00 - [118] Originally by: Archbeholder Things like removing griefing and scamming potential would attract a lot of people to eve, and more importantly KEEP them playing for more than 14 days of trial. But we would lose well over 50 percent* of the current playerbase Again my point is, why attract these people to EVE and change the game to accomadate them when they can just aim for that demographic with an upcoming title? *arbitrary number based on people I know who play that would leave... roughly, you get the point.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.01.10 12:16:00 - [119] Originally by: Iamien Do you really believe that CCP is making a FPS with persistent battlefields instead of the standard "12v12 or "20v20" instanced battlefields? Why not? Originally by: Archbeholder EVE+dust+wod=75k subscriptions vs wow=12kk At least use proper numbers and orders of magnitude. If you're going to argue with the wrong numbers, then we might as well state outright that EVE is a bigger game than WoW and is therefore better. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Terion Fierceglade	Posted - 2011.01.10 12:23:00 - [120] Originally by: Iamien That does not make Dust 514 a MMO, sorry. I've never said Dust 514 was an MMO, I said it has more in common with EVE as it's set in the same universe, whereas SC2 has nothing in common with WoW.

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