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Why this game has crappy newbie retention rate compared to other MMO?

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Minermemememe	Posted - 2011.01.09 11:22:00 - [1] Edited by: Minermemememe on 09/01/2011 11:23:33 Eve has the makings of a killer MMO. Very nice gameplay mechanics, it is set in space which appeals to a lot of people, and the bigger my ship becomes, the shinier it gets. People don't like dying. especially in this MMO because the cost of dying is obscene. WOW has proved that the hardcore grind mentality wont get u a lot of subscribers. Still this mmo has been designed around this failed MMO mechanic and I suppose that there is nothing that they can do about it now. They got caught designing this MMO in the oppossite way when the wow behemoth arrived, so they got clobbered hard. 350k subs compared to wow's 13 million? Also, aside from the grind design, the real reason why subs never go into the wow numbers is because unlike other MMOs out there, this once actually caters to griefers. I guessed whoever design this thing think its fun to throw level 1 guys in an arena with level 85s. lol. There's also so many possibilities that a new player can get his azz kicked without him ever learning that there is more to the game. Picture this, new player comes in and is still doing tutorials. Someone invites him to a corp and since he wants to be friendly, he joins up. Now, as it happens, that corp has war declarations from a lot of pvp hardcore guilds out there who would love nothing more than to go to newbie tranining ground and blow the living crap out of the newbies. So this newbie, who's still in tutorial, don't know whats going on. he only knows some guy with the red star keeps blowing him up every time he hits the undock button. He gets mad and quits the game since he thinks thats all there is to it, getting blown up by players with red star in their names. Not only that he tells every one he knows of the awful experience that he's had. Word of mouth quickly will give the impression that eve is a pvp hardcore, i-get-blown-up-everytime-i-undock game. Too bad guys, you have a great space graphic game here and good gameplay mechanics but you missed it big time in the new player experience.
Serpents smile	Posted - 2011.01.09 11:26:00 - [2] Quit corp?
Vabjekf Caldari	Posted - 2011.01.09 11:27:00 - [3] Good job. I made it to the second paragraph before i realize you were just trolling.
KaarBaak Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2011.01.09 11:28:00 - [4] So, in order to generate the new subscribers, EvE needs to completely change it's mechanics and shed all of it's current subscribers who like the game the way it is? Sounds ***ing brilliant. KB Circumstances rule men; men do not rule circumstances. --Herodotus, Histories*
OneTimeAt BannedSpank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2011.01.09 11:39:00 - [5] I didn't read the op and it's 99% likely to be a troll anyway but we don't need more people in game anyway so who cares. Protip: Wait till your portrait has generated on the servers before posting 'with experience' ~
Mastin Dragonfly 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2011.01.09 11:41:00 - [6] Originally by: Minermemememe 350k subs compared to wow's 13 million? Bigger =! Better Or do you think Justin Bieber is the best thing to ever happen to music as well?
Minermemememe	Posted - 2011.01.09 11:41:00 - [7] Originally by: OneTimeAt BannedSpank I didn't read the op and it's 99% likely to be a troll anyway but we don't need more people in game anyway so who cares. Protip: Wait till your portrait has generated on the servers before posting 'with experience' you dont but I think CCP has a different opinion
Serge Bastana Gallente GWA Corp	Posted - 2011.01.09 11:43:00 - [8] And a good portion of the alleged 13 million WoW subscriptions are either gold farmers or 13 year olds who confuse the 'Ding' when they level up with the 'Ding' of the microwave door opening when dinner is ready. I knew this was a troll when I read the post title. ------------------------------------------------ You either need a punch up the throat or a good shag. Nobody round here is offering the second one therefore your choices are limited!
Minermemememe	Posted - 2011.01.09 11:43:00 - [9] Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Originally by: Minermemememe 350k subs compared to wow's 13 million? Bigger =! Better Or do you think Justin Bieber is the best thing to ever happen to music as well? Are you $&($&@($ kidding me? when is 450k subs superior to 13 million. Can you multiply, understand numberS?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.01.09 11:43:00 - [10] Originally by: Minermemememe you dont but I think CCP has a different opinion CCP has seen a constant increase in subscriptions for the last 7 years. They're not complaining. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Vabjekf Caldari	Posted - 2011.01.09 11:44:00 - [11] Originally by: Serge Bastana And a good portion of the alleged 13 million WoW subscriptions are either gold farmers or 13 year olds who confuse the 'Ding' when they level up with the 'Ding' of the microwave door opening when dinner is ready. I knew this was a troll when I read the post title. Well to be fair a good portion of the EVE subscription are just alt accounts =P
Minermemememe	Posted - 2011.01.09 11:46:00 - [12] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Minermemememe you dont but I think CCP has a different opinion CCP has seen a constant increase in subscriptions for the last 7 years. They're not complaining. Not to you maybe but by themselves. Looking at the PC MMO pie, looking at how SMALL their slice is...
Serge Bastana Gallente GWA Corp	Posted - 2011.01.09 11:47:00 - [13] You must have mistaken us for people who care. ------------------------------------------------ You either need a punch up the throat or a good shag. Nobody round here is offering the second one therefore your choices are limited!
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.01.09 11:47:00 - [14] Edited by: Tippia on 09/01/2011 11:49:08 Originally by: Minermemememe Not to you maybe but by themselves. Doubtful. Quote: Looking at the PC MMO pie, looking at how HUGE their slice is... Yes, it's insanely large for being something that's not following the mainstream, isn't it? Oh, and as was pointed out above: bigger ≠ better. In fact, it's far more likely that bigger = not niche = unfocused and generic mush. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Mastin Dragonfly 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2011.01.09 11:49:00 - [15] Originally by: Minermemememe Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Originally by: Minermemememe 350k subs compared to wow's 13 million? Bigger =! Better Or do you think Justin Bieber is the best thing to ever happen to music as well? Are you $&($&@($ kidding me? when is 450k subs superior to 13 million. Can you multiply, understand numberS? There are way more fastfood restaurants than 5 star restaurants as well...
Minermemememe	Posted - 2011.01.09 11:51:00 - [16] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 09/01/2011 11:49:08 Originally by: Minermemememe Not to you maybe but by themselves. Doubtful. Quote: Looking at the PC MMO pie, looking at how HUGE their slice is... Yes, it's insanely large for being something that's not following the mainstream, isn't it? Oh, and as was pointed out above: bigger ≠ better. In fact, it's far more likely that bigger = not niche = unfocused and generic mush. Braveheart says it best "To CCP, for the longest time you have been feeding off scraps from Longshanks(WOW) table, that you have forgotten your god-given right for something better"
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2011.01.09 11:52:00 - [17] your trolling is bad and you should feel bad _____________________ Look down. Back up. Where are you? You're on a forum, with the alt your alt could post like.
Serge Bastana Gallente GWA Corp	Posted - 2011.01.09 11:52:00 - [18] So how much do you earn working for Blizzard and trolling other games' forums then? ------------------------------------------------ You either need a punch up the throat or a good shag. Nobody round here is offering the second one therefore your choices are limited!
Peter XZ Gallente	Posted - 2011.01.09 11:54:00 - [19] Mark my words, we'll have 13 million subs when Incarna becomes operational, MARK MY WORDS O YE OF LITTLE FAITH. (Unless of course incarna turns out to be a favourite of weirdo perverts who get excited by imaginary avatars, Then WOW just may get a 13th Millionth and 1st subscriber; Me :) Removed. Please keep your EVE signature related to your EVE persona or content directly related to Eve Online. Spitfire
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.01.09 11:56:00 - [20] Originally by: Minermemememe Braveheart says it best "To CCP, for the longest time you have been feeding off scraps from Longshanks(WOW) table, that you have forgotten your god-given right for something better" You're assuming that CCP are eating the same thing as WoW. They aren't, so the analogy doesn't work. You see, the games you're comparing don't really share markets, so there are no left-over scraps from one that the other would wantà Look. It's ok for you not to like EVE, but that's just because you don't like the genre it's in. That doesn't mean that the game should be removed and redone to fit a genre it's not in ù it means you should find a game that's in a genre you like. I don't suppose you go around saying that Counterstrike should stop feeding from the scraps off of Farmville's table ù after all, they are both games with fresh produce in them (wellà at least in CS Italy)? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Iraherag	Posted - 2011.01.09 11:58:00 - [21] 0/10 Seriously, you're not even trying...
Serge Bastana Gallente GWA Corp	Posted - 2011.01.09 11:58:00 - [22] It's like saying the countryside should be paved over simply because cities have bigger populations. Actually there are scumbag property developers who have those very ideas, but thankfully, like you, they're wrong :) ------------------------------------------------ You either need a punch up the throat or a good shag. Nobody round here is offering the second one therefore your choices are limited!
Archbeholder	Posted - 2011.01.09 12:00:00 - [23] Wow got best pvp, best pve, best... everything! The only thing eve players can be proud of is being unique snowflakes who dont play mainstream game oh and best griefing possibilities.
Iraherag	Posted - 2011.01.09 12:00:00 - [24] Originally by: Serge Bastana It's like saying the countryside should be paved over simply because cities have bigger populations. Actually there are scumbag property developers who have those very ideas, but thankfully, like you, they're without power to actually do something :) Sorry, had to fix it...
Siigari Kitawa Gallente Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn	Posted - 2011.01.09 12:02:00 - [25] I can't even imagine Eve with 13 million people logged in. Actually it'd be more like a tenth of that, so 1.3 million. Really? Oh, I can't even begin to list the ways Eve would be broken. www.siigarikitawa.com ò www.eohpoker.com ò Buy a GTC
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.01.09 12:02:00 - [26] Originally by: Archbeholder Wow got best pvp, best pve, best... everything! Hillarious. You're almost as funny as the OP. You just need to tweak the delivery a bit. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Serge Bastana Gallente GWA Corp	Posted - 2011.01.09 12:03:00 - [27] Originally by: Iraherag Originally by: Serge Bastana It's like saying the countryside should be paved over simply because cities have bigger populations. Actually there are scumbag property developers who have those very ideas, but thankfully, like you, they're without power to actually do something :) Sorry, had to fix it... Either works for me :) ------------------------------------------------ You either need a punch up the throat or a good shag. Nobody round here is offering the second one therefore your choices are limited!
Malen Nenokal The Nightshift	Posted - 2011.01.09 12:07:00 - [28] Originally by: Minermemememe so they got clobbered hard. 350k subs compared to wow's 13 million? 350k subs is not failing for an MMO.
Ben Alman	Posted - 2011.01.09 12:10:00 - [29] Edited by: Ben Alman on 09/01/2011 12:12:45 Well pvp is really not tha great in WoW but I don't know anything that could be a danger to WoW on the PvE side. But what I wanted to say is that an MMO developer once said (I think he was from the SWToR team). "Once an MMO passes a certain amount of minimum subscribers it is profitable and wont get more profitable because for new subscriptions you need more servers support etc." So it isn't really necessary to strife for high subscription numbers (apart from more epeen i guess^^) Edit: and why does this forum have to have its "REPort" button where every other one has its "REPly to" button Sorry guys
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.01.09 12:14:00 - [30] Originally by: Ben Alman So it isn't really necessary to strife for High subscription numbers (apart from more epeen i guess^^) àand since CCP get their epeen from things like "biggest $$$-equivalent virtual bank heist" and "largest PCU" and "instances? pffà n00bs!", they've long since unsubscribed from the viagra mailing lists. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Iraherag	Posted - 2011.01.09 12:16:00 - [31] Originally by: Ben Alman Edited by: Ben Alman on 09/01/2011 12:12:45 Well pvp is really not tha great in WoW but I don't know anything that could be a danger to WoW on the PvE side. But what I wanted to say is that an MMO developer once said (I think he was from the SWToR team). "Once an MMO passes a certain amount of minimum subscribers it is profitable and wont get more profitable because for new subscriptions you need more servers support etc." So it isn't really necessary to strife for high subscription numbers (apart from more epeen i guess^^) Edit: and why does this forum have to have its "REPort" button where every other one has its "REPly to" button Sorry guys That's exactly the kind of information you better not share (makes you look like an automaton "DOH, I always click at this location"). If you don't make more profit with 1 billion Dollar revenue than you do with 1 million Dollar revenue, you should really try to do something different(ly).
Ruby Udders	Posted - 2011.01.09 12:17:00 - [32] EVE is "a pvp hardcore, i-get-blown-up-everytime-i-undock game". Why is this so hard to understand? Furthermore it doesn't cater to the lowest common denominator like WoW does. It's quite obvious in my opinion. Be safe, be cynical
Serge Bastana Gallente GWA Corp	Posted - 2011.01.09 12:20:00 - [33] Originally by: Ruby Udders EVE is "a pvp hardcore, i-get-blown-up-everytime-i-undock game". Why is this so hard to understand? Furthermore it doesn't cater to the lowest common denominator like WoW does. It's quite obvious in my opinion. Precisely, WoW is Follywood cinema while EVE is more like some grubby art house cinema showing Ichi the Killer :D ------------------------------------------------ You either need a punch up the throat or a good shag. Nobody round here is offering the second one therefore your choices are limited!
Ben Alman	Posted - 2011.01.09 12:22:00 - [34] Edited by: Ben Alman on 09/01/2011 12:25:00 Originally by: Iraherag That's exactly the kind of information you better not share (makes you look like an automaton "DOH, I always click at this location"). If you don't make more profit with 1 billion Dollar revenue than you do with 1 million Dollar revenue, you should really try to do something different(ly). I don't really care ;) 3 of 5 letters in common on the same spot. That's nothing I'm ashamed of. And since CCP is making new forums it may be a good idea to mention the flaws of the old one. CCP: where even the Forum tries to scam you!
Cailais Amarr Random Pirate's	Posted - 2011.01.09 12:33:00 - [35] Actually I don't think its the people who get blown up as noobs who quit. Those players get that EVE is different and start surviving, fighting back and want to learn more. The players who leave are those whom nothing happens too; they're "what's the point of this game?". I would think it would be quite a good idea to give new players a chance to dip into something like Faction Warfare - if only briefly - so they can experience more of the pew pew goodness EVE has to offer. C. the hydrostatic capsule blog
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2011.01.09 13:04:00 - [36] Originally by: Ben Alman Edited by: Ben Alman on 09/01/2011 12:12:45 Well pvp is really not tha great in WoW but I don't know anything that could be a danger to WoW on the PvE side. But what I wanted to say is that an MMO developer once said (I think he was from the SWToR team). "Once an MMO passes a certain amount of minimum subscribers it is profitable and wont get more profitable because for new subscriptions you need more servers support etc." So it isn't really necessary to strife for high subscription numbers (apart from more epeen i guess^^) no, that's not really true. There is a basic amount of players needed to maintain some profitability, but server costs don't scale that heavily. Plus, development costs don't expand linearly with subscriber base past a certain point; once you're pushing out a certain amount of content per year, you don't need to expand further. tl,dr: Large MMOs rake in the cash. as support, consider the following: blizzard spend roughly $50-60 million per year ($200 million from 04-08) maintaining WoW. They have something like 12? million subscribers at ~15USD per month, for around $2 billion per year in revenue (ignoring the biannual $40 expansions which are also worth a fair sum). This means they're spending less than 5% of the actual subscription fees they get to maintain and grow WoW. They could lower sub fees to $1.50/month, give out free expansions, and they would still be making double their money _____________________ Look down. Back up. Where are you? You're on a forum, with the alt your alt could post like.
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2011.01.09 13:04:00 - [37] There's roughly 3 types of PVP MMO noobs, classified by RL analogies: 1) those who get their teeth smashed and decide to join a gang to get their revenge 2) those who get their teeth smashed and decide to learn martial arts to be able to defend themselves 3) those who run to their mommy or simply accept their fate EVE appeals to the first 2 types. Other games want to keep a large part of type 3) noobs too, so they simply protect them from getting their teeth smashed. But how honest would it be towards the new player to show him a cozy world in the beginning just to bait him into a subscription, so he can get his teeth smashed and ragequit later? :-P How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
Sovereign533 Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2011.01.09 13:24:00 - [38] ok, i'll feed the troll... only reason why WoW has become to massive is mainly because of 3 reasons 1. MASSIVE amount of world wide commercials 2. Warcraft 1/2/3 players 3. being a company with a name known for their polish CCP didn't do any of this, it's CCP's first game. so no old fanbase to transfer to the new game. because it's their first game, CCP wasn't known for anything. and they didn't do massive world wide commercials. it has nothing to do with game mechanics. they aren't new, not at all. they just build on systems that already existed. wow isn't the creative masterpiece you make it out to be. it's just copy/pasted stuff from previous games. you can't really compare wow with eve...
Dorkus Americanus The Laugh Factory	Posted - 2011.01.09 13:28:00 - [39] OP used the word "GUILD", he he he. Explains a lot.
Stanislas Corsican	Posted - 2011.01.09 13:33:00 - [40] At this point, trying to "beat" WoW has more to do with sociology than game design. It would be like trying to engineer a social networking site to "beat" Facebook.
Foxgguy2001 Gallente Second Hand Lions Redneck Rage	Posted - 2011.01.09 13:55:00 - [41] Originally by: Minermemememe Still this mmo has been designed around this failed MMO mechanic and I suppose that there is nothing that they can do about it now. If it's the thought of inescapable death as a newbie (or even seasoned) player or griefing that keeps the 'wow*s' or the like from becoming New Eden residents then I couldn't be happier those mechanics exist, this game is certainly not for them. It's interesting, your contemplation on the matter fails to take into account, if losing your ship/getting podded were insignificant then we would likely get more residents who are just looking for some quick fun...meaning more griefers/pirates. More importantly, for that great** majority you feel joins war-decked corps straight off and swears off Eve after the unavoidable slaughter that you believe most new New Eden residents experience...without asking a single question or quick google search as to why it happened... good riddance. As if that's the case they are little more than a worthless wreck or a decent LOLFIT waiting to happen. You believe they are going to check attrib's on everything? Fit there ship properly? It takes a lot of work, and knowledge, it's an investment. We don't want those who want all the fun and rewards from brainless mouse/keyboard mashing. Eve rewards the intelligent, informed, and the commited. Working as intended.
Archbeholder	Posted - 2011.01.09 13:59:00 - [42] Originally by: Foxgguy2001 we would likely get more residents who are just looking for some quick fun... How DARE they seek fun in eve!?!
Joss56 Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.01.09 14:21:00 - [43] Originally by: Serge Bastana And a good portion of the alleged 13 million WoW subscriptions are either gold farmers or 13 year olds who confuse the 'Ding' when they level up with the 'Ding' of the microwave door opening when dinner is ready. I knew this was a troll when I read the post title. How you can be completly wrong, the average age of the wow subcriber is higher than Eve one, this explains a lot about how Eve players base manage their own game and certainly wy after so many years there just a few subscribers and a lot of them don't even pay their account (hey Plex, PLex are you there?) ________________________________________________ "You do realise you live on a globe, right? And that there places outside the USA/UK?"
Foxgguy2001 Gallente Second Hand Lions Redneck Rage	Posted - 2011.01.09 14:33:00 - [44] Originally by: Archbeholder How DARE they seek fun in eve!?! I was speaking toward a specific means of enjoyment...good try with the out-of-context quote and sarcasm and all... I'd applaud your attempt if it were at least creative.
Captain Megadeath	Posted - 2011.01.09 14:38:00 - [45] Dear OP, There is a space "MMO" which covers your needs precisely. It's forum had over 6 million accounts and was based on a popular show. There was no grind and there was no death penalty. Just right in your eyes. That "MMO" Was Star Trek online. But what the developers hid was that even though they touted numbers in the millions is that only 120,000 people subscribed. When that was revealed and paralleled to EvE, they said give us time. Now they have less than 60,000 subscribers. So be honest. Your idea of a new direction for EvE is fail. When a pampered p*y joins EvE or any other MMO and his pixels asploded then they run away, simple fact. For those pys there is always Hello Kitty Online. Bad troll 1/10. Originally by:* Cat o'Ninetails my name actually is short for catherine Yeah, Katie Door perhaps...... lol
Serge Bastana Gallente GWA Corp	Posted - 2011.01.09 14:44:00 - [46] Originally by: Joss56 Originally by: Serge Bastana And a good portion of the alleged 13 million WoW subscriptions are either gold farmers or 13 year olds who confuse the 'Ding' when they level up with the 'Ding' of the microwave door opening when dinner is ready. I knew this was a troll when I read the post title. How you can be completly wrong, the average age of the wow subcriber is higher than Eve one, this explains a lot about how Eve players base manage their own game and certainly wy after so many years there just a few subscribers and a lot of them don't even pay their account (hey Plex, PLex are you there?) Whatever their age they still salivate like Pavlov's dogs when something goes 'Ding'. We don't cater for them. I'd be interested to see the age demographic though, if you could back your claim up with some evidence that might be useful :) ------------------------------------------------ You either need a punch up the throat or a good shag. Nobody round here is offering the second one therefore your choices are limited!
Captain Megadeath	Posted - 2011.01.09 15:16:00 - [47] Originally by: Joss56 a lot of them don't even pay their account (hey Plex, PLex are you there?) Suprise, suprise. Yet another alt sockpuppet cannot grasp the simple fact that PLEX do not appear from thin air. For that PLEX to exist someone has to either purchase it from CCP or to create it from an ETC bought from a time code site. No matter where it comes from, monies has to change hands with CCP somewhere in the chain to pay for it. CCP - PLEX seller - PLEX Buyer CCP - ETC site - ETC Buyer (PLEX creation) - PLEX Buyer. Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails my name actually is short for catherine Yeah, Katie Door perhaps...... lol
TimMc Brutal Deliverance Extreme Prejudice.	Posted - 2011.01.09 15:19:00 - [48] I will pay 10mil for this mans corpse. Either a ****ing troll or stupid should leave my spaceship game.
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor Elite PWNED THEORY	Posted - 2011.01.09 15:38:00 - [49] God... could you imagine 13M subscribers playing EVE? [Shudders] That would be horrible...
Captain Megadeath	Posted - 2011.01.09 15:39:00 - [50] Originally by: TimMc I will pay 10mil for this mans corpse. Either a **ing troll or stupid should leave my spaceship game. I found Minermemememe for you From: * **** Sent: 2011.01.09 15:37 The scumsucker is located at Cistuvaert V - Moon 12 - Center for Advanced Studies School station in the Cistuvaert system, Anwyns constellation of Verge Vendor region. With regards, * ****. Originally by:** Cat o'Ninetails my name actually is short for catherine Yeah, Katie Door perhaps...... lol
DuKackBoon	Posted - 2011.01.09 15:46:00 - [51] Edited by: DuKackBoon on 09/01/2011 15:45:54 Originally by: Minermemememe Edited by: Minermemememe on 09/01/2011 11:23:33 Eve has the makings of a killer MMO. Very nice gameplay mechanics, it is set in space which appeals to a lot of people, and the bigger my ship becomes, the shinier it gets. People don't like dying. especially in this MMO because the cost of dying is obscene. WOW has proved that the hardcore grind mentality wont get u a lot of subscribers. Still this mmo has been designed around this failed MMO mechanic and I suppose that there is nothing that they can do about it now. They got caught designing this MMO in the oppossite way when the wow behemoth arrived, so they got clobbered hard. 350k subs compared to wow's 13 million? Quantity doesn't equal Quality. McDonalds food isn't the best, you know? Also, aside from the grind design, the real reason why subs never go into the wow numbers is because unlike other MMOs out there, this once actually caters to griefers. I guessed whoever design this thing think its fun to throw level 1 guys in an arena with level 85s. lol. Indeed it is. But I've seen "level 1" guys horribly embarrass "level 80" guys. This is actually what makes EVE GOOD. There's also so many possibilities that a new player can get his azz kicked without him ever learning that there is more to the game. Picture this, new player comes in and is still doing tutorials. Someone invites him to a corp and since he wants to be friendly, he joins up. Now, as it happens, that corp has war declarations from a lot of pvp hardcore guilds out there who would love nothing more than to go to newbie tranining ground and blow the living crap out of the newbies. So this newbie, who's still in tutorial, don't know whats going on. he only knows some guy with the red star keeps blowing him up every time he hits the undock button. Forums and Tutorials exist for a reason. If he doesn't check them him self, he may as well keep getting blown up into ragequitting. We won't miss him. He gets mad and quits the game since he thinks thats all there is to it, getting blown up by players with red star in their names. Not only that he tells every one he knows of the awful experience that he's had. Word of mouth quickly will give the impression that eve is a pvp hardcore, i-get-blown-up-everytime-i-undock game. Too bad guys, you have a great space graphic game here and good gameplay mechanics but you missed it big time in the new player experience. And finally, the necessary trollololol: This thread is bad and you should feel bad about it.
Zhim'Fufu	Posted - 2011.01.09 15:46:00 - [52] Originally by: Captain Megadeath Originally by: TimMc I will pay 10mil for this mans corpse. Either a **ing troll or stupid should leave my spaceship game. I found Minermemememe for you From: * **** Sent: 2011.01.09 15:37 The scumsucker is located at Cistuvaert V - Moon 12 - Center for Advanced Studies School station in the Cistuvaert system, Anwyns constellation of Verge Vendor region. With regards, * ******. I'ts highly doubtful he will ever undock. Probably already biomassed the troll alt by now.
Lord Dragonmede	Posted - 2011.01.09 16:07:00 - [53] Oh pleez somebody tell me where the wormhole entrance to WoW Space is so that I can bubblecamp it, or at least scorch it closed?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.01.09 16:15:00 - [54] Originally by: Lord Dragonmede Oh pleez somebody tell me where the wormhole entrance to WoW Space is so that I can bubblecamp it, or at least scorch it closed? Or just smartbomb it. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Zhim'Fufu	Posted - 2011.01.09 16:18:00 - [55] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Lord Dragonmede Oh pleez somebody tell me where the wormhole entrance to WoW Space is so that I can bubblecamp it, or at least scorch it closed? Or just smartbomb it. Now we know were wow got the idea for cataclysm. Smartbomb raven = Generic dragon of ultimate doom.
Tyke Orlieveit	Posted - 2011.01.09 16:25:00 - [56] I shouldn't feed the trolls, but frag it.. Originally by: Minermemememe Edited by: Minermemememe on 09/01/2011 11:23:33 Eve has the makings of a killer MMO. Very nice gameplay mechanics, it is set in space which appeals to a lot of people, and the bigger my ship becomes, the shinier it gets. And the more risk you instantly assume in having it. Imagine WoW where you could kill and loot the epics of the back of those annoying lvl 85's with a swarm of 10-20's, because the penalties of being bigger and harder mean that you can't always hit the little ones that are mobbing you. Hell, I'd consider going back for that kind of fun. Originally by: Minermemememe People don't like dying. especially in this MMO because the cost of dying is obscene. WOW has proved that the hardcore grind mentality wont get u a lot of subscribers. Still this mmo has been designed around this failed MMO mechanic and I suppose that there is nothing that they can do about it now. They got caught designing this MMO in the oppossite way when the wow behemoth arrived, so they got clobbered hard. 350k subs compared to wow's 13 million? Quantity does not a quality game make. Just because you have 13 million subscribers ( By the way, please verify how many of them are "Live" subs, how many are trial accounts no-one's proceeded on, etc, and evidence before you post ) doesn't mean it's the be-all and end-all of MMO's. You don't like dying? This probably isn't the game for you. Originally by: Minermemememe Also, aside from the grind design, the real reason why subs never go into the wow numbers is because unlike other MMOs out there, this once actually caters to griefers. I guessed whoever design this thing think its fun to throw level 1 guys in an arena with level 85s. lol. See an earlier point, where a character in the TRIAL phase can have an impact on fleet battles. You're comparing apples and oranges, and 2 completely different game mechanics and styles. Originally by: Minermemememe There's also so many possibilities that a new player can get his azz kicked without him ever learning that there is more to the game. Picture this, new player comes in and is still doing tutorials. Someone invites him to a corp and since he wants to be friendly, he joins up. Now, as it happens, that corp has war declarations from a lot of pvp hardcore guilds out there who would love nothing more than to go to newbie tranining ground and blow the living crap out of the newbies. So this newbie, who's still in tutorial, don't know whats going on. he only knows some guy with the red star keeps blowing him up every time he hits the undock button. Since you're obsessing with the World of ****craft example, we'll keep going. Read the 'Lore'. The universe you are in is horrible, cut-throat and uncaring. You live, and learn. Your early clone doesn't need upgrading for a short while, so the mistakes in the earliest days are cheap. If this isn't the game style for you, HTFU or GTFO. You talk in the chat channels and learn what's happening. First time I played this, I had no idea WTF I was doing, nearly got and got blown to hell many times. I'm still here many years later, and my main character's kills to losses is pretty painful, I've certainly lost more than I've killed. --More to follow
Tyke Orlieveit	Posted - 2011.01.09 16:29:00 - [57] -- Part 2 Originally by: Minermemememe He gets mad and quits the game since he thinks thats all there is to it, getting blown up by players with red star in their names. Not only that he tells every one he knows of the awful experience that he's had. Word of mouth quickly will give the impression that eve is a pvp hardcore, i-get-blown-up-everytime-i-undock game. Too bad guys, you have a great space graphic game here and good gameplay mechanics but you missed it big time in the new player experience. Or people who are interested in the game style you are selling go "WTF, cool!", and are interested. I was pulled in by someone telling me pretty much that kind of story. This game is NOT designed/sold/targeted to people who love to play games like World of ***craft, the games and the styles and dynamics are completely different.. and I wouldn't have it any other way. In short, in a TL&DR style. HTFU* or GTFO our spaceship game, give me your stuff before you go, and go back to World of ****craft and enjoy yourself, stop wasting the database space that could be better used for keeping a log of how many times I've wiped my ass than your existence.
Medarr Amarr ZeroSec	Posted - 2011.01.09 17:21:00 - [58] /AFKCLOAKS
Uzrial	Posted - 2011.01.09 17:25:00 - [59] The learning curve for this game is astronomical. Training time is quite slow. A large factor I would have to say would be the ability to see all these fancy ships, mods and other things on market and contracts and then find out it will take you months or even years to use them. Also c'mon, we are all *******s. It takes a more mature player to deal with us.
Drakarin Gallente Absentia Libertas Solus	Posted - 2011.01.09 17:28:00 - [60] I'm a hardcore carebear, and I wish the game was harsher. No, this game has some problems, but it being "cruel and difficult" isn't one of them. There are so many ways to avoid pvp, the only thing that's dangerous in low sec are gate camps, and even those can either be entirely avoided through the use of an alt, or a friend scouting. You can also power through if you're quick and a bit lucky. Beyond that, safespot up, if you see combat probes out, make a new safespot a bit away, keep doing your thing, eventually they will move on. I think the fact that death has meaning is a very good thing, because it motivates you to stay alive. In WoW I have several thousand deaths, why? Because death has absolutely no penalty at all. I could care less if I live or die. I hate that. Personally I think insurance should be removed to increase the sting of death. This game just isn't for you, and that's fine. This game was made for a specific niche, it wasn't created to be a clone of WoW in space.
BrundleMeth Caldari Temporal Mechanics	Posted - 2011.01.09 17:47:00 - [61] Frankly, I don't understand why anyone would have a problem dying in game. You DO actually re-spawn to start again...
Jerunk	Posted - 2011.01.09 18:56:00 - [62] Because we have Corps and not Guilds, clans or raids.
Archbeholder	Posted - 2011.01.09 19:05:00 - [63] Originally by: Drakarin This game was made for a specific niche, it wasn't created to be a clone of WoW in space. That's the only thing that keeps eve afloat, complete lack of competition
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2011.01.09 19:08:00 - [64] Originally by: Minermemememe Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Originally by: Minermemememe 350k subs compared to wow's 13 million? Bigger =! Better Or do you think Justin Bieber is the best thing to ever happen to music as well? Are you $&($&@($ kidding me? when is 450k subs superior to 13 million. Can you multiply, understand numberS? WoW has the numbers. EvE wins the awards.
GoBack 2WOW	Posted - 2011.01.09 19:14:00 - [65]
Near Death Caldari M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2011.01.09 20:03:00 - [66] 3/10 - You lack class.
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2011.01.09 20:05:00 - [67] Originally by: baltec1 WoW has the numbers. EvE wins the awards. WoW has won quite few awards, including the "Technology & Engineering Emmy Award" in 2008. Check out this list ... How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
WarlockX Amarr Free Trade Corp	Posted - 2011.01.09 20:16:00 - [68] Originally by: Minermemememe Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Originally by: Minermemememe 350k subs compared to wow's 13 million? Bigger =! Better Or do you think Justin Bieber is the best thing to ever happen to music as well? Are you $&($&@($ kidding me? when is 450k subs superior to 13 million. Can you multiply, understand numberS? So you must think MCdonalds food is the best food in the world because more ppl eat McDonalds then any other food. ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page
Kerfira Kerfira Corp	Posted - 2011.01.09 21:15:00 - [69] The OP has is SOOOO wrong! If CCP created 'WoW in Space', they'd have to compete with WoW for customers. FYI, and you can just look at all the MMO failures that have tried to do that, that is a recipe for fail! Instead, CCP chose to occupy and completely dominate a market niche, that of the hardcore gamer who doesn't cry when he loses a few internet spaceships. They'll never grow to the size of WoW, but they got that niche about 100% covered, and is so far ahead of everyone (just like WoW in its area) that it is unlikely to be challenged. Thus they have what most companies crave, a niche market without serious competition to milk. It is secure income, and they can spend it to enhance their lead in the niche, and spend it on expanding into other markets. Even if an expansion fails, they'll still have their cash-cow. It is, in fact, a winner move! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Chingyz Caldari Reverse Psychology. BAT PHONE	Posted - 2011.01.09 22:00:00 - [70] Originally by: Kerfira The OP has is SOOOO wrong! If CCP created 'WoW in Space', they'd have to compete with WoW for customers. FYI, and you can just look at all the MMO failures that have tried to do that, that is a recipe for fail! Instead, CCP chose to occupy and completely dominate a market niche, that of the hardcore gamer who doesn't cry when he loses a few internet spaceships. They'll never grow to the size of WoW, but they got that niche about 100% covered, and is so far ahead of everyone (just like WoW in its area) that it is unlikely to be challenged. Thus they have what most companies crave, a niche market without serious competition to milk. It is secure income, and they can spend it to enhance their lead in the niche, and spend it on expanding into other markets. Even if an expansion fails, they'll still have their cash-cow. It is, in fact, a winner move! Beat me to it. However most trolls will just ignore this logic or they ar just to dumb to see how brilliant it is for small upcoming companies to utilize nieche markets in order to secure growth.
Sverige Pahis Caldari Random Selection. Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2011.01.09 22:46:00 - [71] He be trollin'.
Deandra Walran	Posted - 2011.01.09 23:04:00 - [72] Originally by: Serge Bastana Precisely, WoW is Follywood cinema while EVE is more like some grubby art house cinema showing Ichi the Killer :D IMO, Eve is more like a snuff film.
EnslaverOfMinmatar Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2011.01.09 23:09:00 - [73] My guess is they can't even finish the tutorial due to their abilities. uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ
lilol' me	Posted - 2011.01.09 23:10:00 - [74] Check out the replies, cos of arrogant fecks who just **** poast and flame..wonder why ppl dont stay?!! but on another note 1) risk v reward is terrible 2) missioning is boring as hell 3) full of idiots 4) anyone can kill you anywhere anytime 5) skillpoints really dont matter in this game, so if you played for 5 years you can still easily die to a month old player cos of stupid mechanics.
Minermemememe	Posted - 2011.01.09 23:28:00 - [75] Originally by: Chingyz Originally by: Kerfira The OP has is SOOOO wrong! If CCP created 'WoW in Space', they'd have to compete with WoW for customers. FYI, and you can just look at all the MMO failures that have tried to do that, that is a recipe for fail! Instead, CCP chose to occupy and completely dominate a market niche, that of the hardcore gamer who doesn't cry when he loses a few internet spaceships. They'll never grow to the size of WoW, but they got that niche about 100% covered, and is so far ahead of everyone (just like WoW in its area) that it is unlikely to be challenged. Thus they have what most companies crave, a niche market without serious competition to milk. It is secure income, and they can spend it to enhance their lead in the niche, and spend it on expanding into other markets. Even if an expansion fails, they'll still have their cash-cow. It is, in fact, a winner move! Beat me to it. However most trolls will just ignore this logic or they ar just to dumb to see how brilliant it is for small upcoming companies to utilize nieche markets in order to secure growth. "They will never grow to the size of WOW", that is like WOW. So you're content by being the garbage guy for the rest of your life? What country do you live in? I never seen so much defeatism, no hope for the future, being content with the miserable state that you live in?
Jason Marshall Gallente Mad Bombers HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2011.01.09 23:29:00 - [76] Jason's fiance says: As an already-established WoW player I went ahead and tried to play your guys' game for the sake of my man. First thing I tried to do with my fancy spaceship was ram it into an asteroid to see the explosion, but nothing happened! I just bounced off, how boring is that? And then the quest or whatever came up and it was a lot of words without much backstory, so I was further unamused. And THEN, there were numbers! SO MANY NUMBERS. Look, dudes, I don't know about you but when I play a game I want two things to happen: violence and entertainment. My first attempt at violence (spaceship explosion via large rock) failed miserably. First opportunity for entertainment was anything but. Plus, EVE's HUD is hopelessly crowded and baffling on first (and second, and third) glance, and so there I was further thwarted in wanting to try and make any sense of it all. TL;DR your game is boring and there are not enough troggs to kill.
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2011.01.09 23:36:00 - [77] Originally by: Jason Marshall Jason's fiance says: As an already-established WoW player I went ahead and tried to play your guys' game for the sake of my man. First thing I tried to do with my fancy spaceship was ram it into an asteroid to see the explosion, Never give that chick your car keys ... How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
SXyWhile Gallente Echo Roaming Industries	Posted - 2011.01.10 00:01:00 - [78] Holy **** - what CCP needs to do is pull their heads out of their asses and correct the mistakes they've made over the last three years. Basically, return things to the way things were in 2007. This was the era of pvp when pvp was exactly that - pvp. Now we have curses that can't go faster than 2k, people flying battlecruisers, and rapiers not being able to pin down freighters before they get back to the gates. Fix nano and fix webs. Oh - and after that, fix dampeners as well. Thanks for making the mega a viable solo ship once again. PS: all the hardcore pvpers will agree with me - S
Captain Megadeath	Posted - 2011.01.10 00:06:00 - [79] Edited by: Captain Megadeath on 10/01/2011 00:06:31 Originally by: Jason Marshall Jason's fiance says: As an already-established WoW player I went ahead and tried to play your guys' game for the sake of my man. Your "Man" needs to slap you silly for being out of the kitchen, never mind letting you play games. Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails my name actually is short for catherine Yeah, Katie Door perhaps...... lol
Worgen Fratmon Minmatar Instapop Industries	Posted - 2011.01.10 00:12:00 - [80] Originally by: Jason Marshall <SNIP> TL;DR your game is boring and there are not enough troggs to kill. That actually sums up my fiance's feelings for EVE. Throw in an "its too complicated" and "why is it fun to get greifed?" and that would be the whole reason I don't pay for 4 accounts instead of just paying for 2. In the intrest of full disclosure, I do own stock in Activision-Blizzard and Atari (the current publisher of the EVE Commander's Edition).
Goran	Posted - 2011.01.10 00:15:00 - [81] Newbie retention is a terrible idea. We need freshmeat to grief and scam, otherwise the fun would dry-up. Turnover is the key.
Orfum Sopter	Posted - 2011.01.10 00:20:00 - [82] Originally by: Worgen Fratmon In the intrest of full disclosure, I do own stock in Activision-Blizzard and Atari (the current publisher of the EVE Commander's Edition). Whats the need for full disclosure again? Not that anyone cares who you are but now we all thing you're pathetic. At least I do. For saying that, let alone supposedly owning the stock. Just for saying it.
Clementina The Scope	Posted - 2011.01.10 00:50:00 - [83] Remember, that almost everyone who wants to play a game like WoW is already playing WoW. The large customer base is an illusion as they are being served by a game already. If developing a MMOG, you want to cater to people who are not playing a MMOG currently but would if the right game was made. Copying successful games will make you poor, not rich. You want to copy failed games (Perhaps one can improve on Shadowbane, or the original Star Wars Galaxies) Or strike out with your own creative direction. Numbers of subscribers doesn't even mean as much as one might think. The proper way to measure a game is dollars per developer per month. Sheer number of subscribers is the way the ego is massaged, not the way money is made. I don't even know why we are talking about WoW and Eve, the clear winner is A Tale in the Desert, by eGenesis.
Kerfira Kerfira Corp	Posted - 2011.01.10 01:01:00 - [84] Originally by: Minermemememe ... "They will never grow to the size of WOW", that is like WOW. So you're content by being the garbage guy for the rest of your life? What country do you live in? I never seen so much defeatism, no hope for the future, being content with the miserable state that you live in? If a market leader has the market well sown up, only an idiot tries to compete when you have only limited resources. Comprehend this: CCP is not TRYING to compete with WoW... The only passing similarity between the two products is that they're both in a virtual world. You may as well critisize Toyota for not competing with WoW... They're another company whose product doesn't fit your model about how a company must do their product to be good. You don't know very much about how the world works outside WoW, do you? Failtroll is fail Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.10 01:28:00 - [85] To the op, Eve has the makings of a killer MMO? Not a chance as it stands, space is a pretty boring place when compared to trekking through jungles, crossing rivers etc. Now if you could land on planets and explore planet environments then it might add some more interest for a larger number of players. I tend not to like dying even if there is no penalty, I don't need an incentive to try and stay alive in a game. WoW has proved nothing as far as grinding is concerned WoW itself is one large grind. Can't think of any MMO that does not have a large grinding element. No matter what anyone says about WoW it has been the most successful MMO so far. Can't say I like the direction it's gone in since it's release, but a lot of people obviously still do. Or at least they tolerate it because there are not many good MMOs about. Yep, Eve does promote griefing, it encourages it which is a pain in some ways but you kind of get used to it. Without griefing Eve would not be Eve. Over the last couple of years it does seem to be getting worse, I just wonder if it'll get to a point where it starts to lose players more frequently. Eve also tends to have a bit of a reputation as a game where griefing is common place. As for new players getting their arses kicked, well that won't necessarily put them off. They can learn from it, but I would like to see tougher measures against griefers (suicide pilots and the like).
Worgen Fratmon Minmatar Instapop Industries	Posted - 2011.01.10 01:56:00 - [86] Edited by: Worgen Fratmon on 10/01/2011 01:56:52 Originally by: Orfum Sopter Originally by: Worgen Fratmon In the intrest of full disclosure, I do own stock in Activision-Blizzard and Atari (the current publisher of the EVE Commander's Edition). Whats the need for full disclosure again? Not that anyone cares who you are but now we all thing you're pathetic. At least I do. For saying that, let alone supposedly owning the stock. Just for saying it. I gave you no permision to do anything with my "thing". If you don't really understand the usage of full disclosure, I suggest you watch a bit more news. You'll understand.
Qujulome Amarr	Posted - 2011.01.10 02:16:00 - [87] Originally by: Pan Crastus Originally by: baltec1 WoW has the numbers. EvE wins the awards. WoW has won quite few awards, including the "Technology & Engineering Emmy Award" in 2008. Check out this list ... http://www.eveonline.com/community/awards_reviews.asp [22:34:24] ISD Cravenish > Skully - yes - player bounties are kinda broken at the moment
Archbeholder	Posted - 2011.01.10 02:23:00 - [88] Originally by: Clementina Numbers of subscribers doesn't even mean as much as one might think. The proper way to measure a game is dollars per developer per month. Sheer number of subscribers is the way the ego is massaged, not the way money is made. I don't even know why we are talking about WoW and Eve, the clear winner is A Tale in the Desert, by eGenesis. No, number of subscribers means everything as it directly relates to money income. And when eve has 35k average online with 75k total subscriptions in comparison to 12kk active subscriptions of wow it tells that eve developers/management are not doing their job well, intended or not.
Worgen Fratmon Minmatar Instapop Industries	Posted - 2011.01.10 02:35:00 - [89] Originally by: Archbeholder No, number of subscribers means everything as it directly relates to money income. And when eve has 35k average online with 75k total subscriptions in comparison to 12kk active subscriptions of wow it tells that eve developers/management are not doing their job well, intended or not. This is only true to a degree. What is more important is CCP making a profit and is that profit growing at a level that CCP desires (or greater)?
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.10 02:37:00 - [90] Originally by: Archbeholder Originally by: Clementina Numbers of subscribers doesn't even mean as much as one might think. The proper way to measure a game is dollars per developer per month. Sheer number of subscribers is the way the ego is massaged, not the way money is made. I don't even know why we are talking about WoW and Eve, the clear winner is A Tale in the Desert, by eGenesis. No, number of subscribers means everything as it directly relates to money income. And when eve has 35k average online with 75k total subscriptions in comparison to 12kk active subscriptions of wow it tells that eve developers/management are not doing their job well, intended or not. Does not tell me that Eve developers are not doing their job. It just tells me that the game they chose to develop was never going to appeal to the masses because of the subject matter. I doubt Eve appeals to many girls/women for a start whereas something like WoW would.
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2011.01.10 04:17:00 - [91] IDK my son quit runescape when he was 10 years old (3years ago) because they nerfed the game so he couldn't lure people out to the woods , axe them and steal their stuff (i never played it myself..) If he played eve he'd be goon I guess. but the whole experience turned him off entirely from mmo's I think .. the idea of a safe world just lost his interest even as a twerpy kid. If you want to go intellectual on it google up some Richard Bartle pieces about the cost of dying and its importance in a vitural world.
Iraherag	Posted - 2011.01.10 07:50:00 - [92] Originally by: Kerfira If a market leader has the market well sown up, only an idiot tries to compete when you have only limited resources. Hold on a minute, I'm calling the guys with unlimited resources right away... Originally by: Kerfira Failtroll is fail How right you are...
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2011.01.10 09:04:00 - [93] Originally by: Archbeholder No, number of subscribers means everything as it directly relates to money income. And when eve has 35k average online with 75k total subscriptions in comparison to 12kk active subscriptions of wow it tells that eve developers/management are not doing their job well, intended or not. EVE online is the only MMO I am interested in. Everything else out there is risk free grind fest in which players have zero impact upon the world. To me EVE is the best of them all for my tastes. Also your numbers are very wrong.
Afrid Zaror	Posted - 2011.01.10 09:12:00 - [94] It has crappy newbie retention because it's so complex that the text tutorial is overwhelming, and the only way people will stick it out and wade through the monumental confusion that lasts around 2 weeks or so, is if they've read about the game properly and know what awaits them when they do finally "get it". If there was a better tutorial, maybe that hot chick's voice instead of text, and video showing where to click, for example, when queing up a skill, fitting a module, setting up a production job, then the newbie retention rates would probably go up dramatically. There's EVE university which'll give you good lessons in getting started, and if you have a friend who can talk you through it over a microphone that's good too, but aside from that, if newbies would just read the tutorial like I did, and ask sensible questions instead of "How to fire?", giving away that they haven't read the tutorial, therefore testing peoples' patience and reducing the chances of them getting help, then they'd be fine. There are a lot of helpful people in the newbie corps, I regularly spend an hour at a time in private conversation with people explaining this and that, they just need to present a qurestion that the very, very first word of the very, very first tutorial doesn't answer.
Kelkam	Posted - 2011.01.10 09:23:00 - [95] They should make two games... If the wow'd up kiddie one gets more subs than nerdy version, then great...more money for ccp... but who wants bajazillions of dollars? amiright?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.01.10 09:43:00 - [96] Edited by: Tippia on 10/01/2011 09:46:07 Originally by: Minermemememe "They will never grow to the size of WOW", that is like WOW. So you're content by being the garbage guy for the rest of your life? What country do you live in? I never seen so much defeatism, no hope for the future, being content with the miserable state that you live in? Again, wrong analogy. WoW is the menial-task average-joe wageslave. EVE is the devil-may-care adrenaline junkie you see in fancily edited X-named TV shows who spend all day throwing themselves off of powdery-snow mountain tops (or sand dunes or ocean waves or cityscapes) all across the word with various odd and wondrous pieces of locomotive tech strapped to themselves, who spend all evening wooing large-busted chalet girls or [insert geographically equivalent imagery] and who then spend all nightsà doing other thingsà Who knows where they get the money, and who cares? It's great entertainment and they're having the time of their lives. The large mass are not defeatist ù they're already defeated, and the most thrilling comparable thing they have to look forward to is a generic-brand watery lager at an alp-themed steakhouse. Oh, I suppose some of them feel a great thrill filling out expense reports ù they might be able to squeeze an extra $5 out of the company and no-one will know! The fact that there's a crapton more of them doesn't much improve their miserable lot in life. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Neuge	Posted - 2011.01.10 09:59:00 - [97] Edited by: Neuge on 10/01/2011 09:59:17 So, all games should have equal subscriber amounts as WoW? I don't really understand the point of this thread... Why should one company that is aimed at a particular style of play fold over just because one fantasy MMO enthusiast kid wants it to be like WoW, where is the damn variety? One of the larger reasons WoW has so many subscribers isn't because of it's fantastic content or game mechanics, but because it's advertised so bloody well and has a theme which lures in kids and/or troubled adults. The third paragraph shows how you truely do not know anything about the game, such a dull, one angled perspective that someone would produce after 3 days of gameplay and getting mad over his retriever loss.
Serge Bastana Gallente GWA Corp	Posted - 2011.01.10 10:01:00 - [98] Originally by: Afrid Zaror It has crappy newbie retention because it's so complex that the text tutorial is overwhelming, and the only way people will stick it out and wade through the monumental confusion that lasts around 2 weeks or so, is if they've read about the game properly and know what awaits them when they do finally "get it". If there was a better tutorial, maybe that hot chick's voice instead of text, and video showing where to click, for example, when queing up a skill, fitting a module, setting up a production job, then the newbie retention rates would probably go up dramatically. There's EVE university which'll give you good lessons in getting started, and if you have a friend who can talk you through it over a microphone that's good too, but aside from that, if newbies would just read the tutorial like I did, and ask sensible questions instead of "How to fire?", giving away that they haven't read the tutorial, therefore testing peoples' patience and reducing the chances of them getting help, then they'd be fine. There are a lot of helpful people in the newbie corps, I regularly spend an hour at a time in private conversation with people explaining this and that, they just need to present a qurestion that the very, very first word of the very, very first tutorial doesn't answer. I spent a while reading the forums and learning about the game before I actually started playing and the fact that you aren't bubblewrapped or have your hand held was what helped me decide to take the plunge and get into the game. I agree that the tutorials could be improved, but they've already improved them somewhat from when I first tried the trial back in '07, so there is hope that they will refine them further to provide more information about the initial amount of information that many new players encounter. And as to the OP's false claim that CCP are the garbage men of the game world, well, it's a dirty job and someone has to do it :D ------------------------------------------------ You either need a punch up the throat or a good shag. Nobody round here is offering the second one therefore your choices are limited!
Terion Fierceglade	Posted - 2011.01.10 10:06:00 - [99] I'm a fairly new player and everyday I see people in the Rookie channel every day asking questions like "is 1 Mil ISK the equivalent of 1 WoW gold?". It's like the only way to understand how another MMO works is to compare it with WoW. I've played WoW for almost 5 years and I would never try to compare it with a game like EVE, especially since I know the fundamental difference is the sandbox play. EVE is the toyfactory where you make your toys and entertain yourself with everything that is available to you. World of Warcraft and similar MMOs have everything ready for you and you can jump into it right away; only string attached is the entry ticket which differs between the rides. I like both types of game. Right now I've decided I will try EVE for a while and see what happens.
Archbeholder	Posted - 2011.01.10 10:18:00 - [100] Originally by: Terion Fierceglade sandbox play. "Sandbox" is a pretty word to describe lack of content.
Jaina Sunspot Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.10 10:23:00 - [101] Originally by: Archbeholder "Sandbox" is a pretty word to describe lack of content. Sandbox means content is equal to your creativity. Perhaps you would enjoy a game where the content is mapped out by smarter more interesting people instead of finding your own niche and enjoying it.
Terion Fierceglade	Posted - 2011.01.10 10:58:00 - [102] Originally by: Archbeholder "Sandbox" is a pretty word to describe lack of content. On the contrary. It means you make up your own content and it can be as fun or boring as you want it to be. Compared to the "fun park" philosophy games like WoW incorporate, where the content is what you get and use but you can't really make it your own.
McRoll Minmatar The Legion of Darkness	Posted - 2011.01.10 11:10:00 - [103] For me, Eve has a lot of content.
Buck Marui Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.01.10 11:11:00 - [104] EVE will never rival WoW simply because the hardware does not exist, and probably never will in our lifetime, EVE is already pushing the boundaries and suffering for it, it is not because of faulty game mechanics that EVE is becoming "stale" but simply becuase the technology does not exist to take it further yet. A year or so down the line EVE will attract another 100k subscribers and then become too big for itself and will have to wait another year for better hardware. Rinse and repeat. Obviously CCP knew this when they decided on the single universe model and so attempting to compare EVE to WoW in any way is just pointless, EVE is a marvel of the technology/game industry, it pushes the boundaries in almost everything it does, WoW is just a game (for better or worst) Ultimately you have to take this to a company level, instead of WoW and EVE you should compare Blizzard to CCP, but not until both companies are worth the same (I.E in the same league) Blizzard have done well in creating a game for everyone, unfortunately it means the next game they release is simply going to be juggling there subscribers from WoW, CCP have/are creating multiple games of differing genres to attract different demographics, any number of internet smartguys and marketing gurus would tell you the preferable method for success here. So next time you decide to compare WoW to EVE, don't. Instead compare WoW to EVE, dust 514 and World of Darkness.
Iamien Democracy of Klingon Brothers R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.01.10 11:21:00 - [105] Edited by: Iamien on 10/01/2011 11:23:28 Originally by: Buck Marui So next time you decide to compare WoW to EVE, don't. Instead compare WoW to EVE, dust 514 and World of Darkness. Because WoW is the only title that Blizzard has.... Your not helping your argument man. Also we know next to nothing about Dust or WoD.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.01.10 11:32:00 - [106] Originally by: Iamien Because WoW is the only title that Blizzard has.... It's their only MMO. What he's asking you to do is think about how many people they'd lose from WoW if they created World of [some other IP of theirs] with the same universal appealà Comparing CCP and Blizzard doesn't work because Blizzard goes for that universal appeal, whereas CCP does not. The numbers become incomparable because they measure completely different things. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Terion Fierceglade	Posted - 2011.01.10 11:33:00 - [107] Edited by: Terion Fierceglade on 10/01/2011 11:34:22 Originally by: Iamien Edited by: Iamien on 10/01/2011 11:23:28Because WoW is the only title that Blizzard has.... Do you know any other MMOs Blizzard are running?
Iamien Democracy of Klingon Brothers R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.01.10 11:37:00 - [108] Originally by: Terion Fierceglade Edited by: Terion Fierceglade on 10/01/2011 11:34:22 Originally by: Iamien Edited by: Iamien on 10/01/2011 11:23:28Because WoW is the only title that Blizzard has.... Do you know any other MMOs Blizzard are running? I don't see how SC2 would be any less of an MMO than Dust 514. Also it is hard to count WoD when the only trailer for is only available in cam quality.
Jaina Sunspot Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.10 11:38:00 - [109] Edited by: Jaina Sunspot on 10/01/2011 11:40:26 Originally by: Iamien Because WoW is the only title that Blizzard has.... Your not helping your argument man. Also we know next to nothing about Dust or WoD. No it isn't which is why Activision Blizzard can throw Devs like candy at WOW. CCP doesn't have that, infact EVE is there only game that is finished out and making them money. You want an Activition Blizzard ammount of content, donate enough so CCP has the same budget. CCP: Total assets US$43,837,015 at 31 December 2008 Activision BlizzarsTotal assets US$13.7 billion FY 2009 Notice the small gap between the two companies, we will probably never have WOW level content. But since CCP like 90% of every other MMO do not have a increda rich parent company with years of experience accross multible genres, CCP does better then anyone would have thought.
Terion Fierceglade	Posted - 2011.01.10 11:41:00 - [110] Originally by: Iamien I don't see how SC2 would be any less of an MMO than Dust 514. Then there's really no point for you to be having this discussion with anyone here. At least not until you open your eyes and stop being ignorant.
Iamien Democracy of Klingon Brothers R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.01.10 11:44:00 - [111] Edited by: Iamien on 10/01/2011 11:45:16 Originally by: Terion Fierceglade Originally by: Iamien I don't see how SC2 would be any less of an MMO than Dust 514. Then there's really no point for you to be having this discussion with anyone here. At least not until you open your eyes and stop being ignorant. Do you really believe that CCP is making a FPS with persistent battlefields instead of the standard "12v12 or "20v20" instanced battlefields? Lobbies where no gameplay takes place is not part of the gameworld.
Terion Fierceglade	Posted - 2011.01.10 11:52:00 - [112] Originally by: Iamien Do you really believe that CCP is making a FPS with persistent battlefields instead of the standard "12v12 or "20v20" instanced battlefields? Lobbies where no gameplay takes place is not part of the gameworld. Starcraft II has nothing in common with World of Warcraft whereas Dust is a tie-in to the EVE universe. Can you see the difference?
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.01.10 11:57:00 - [113] Originally by: Minermemememe Originally by: OneTimeAt BannedSpank I didn't read the op and it's 99% likely to be a troll anyway but we don't need more people in game anyway so who cares. Protip: Wait till your portrait has generated on the servers before posting 'with experience' you dont but I think CCP has a different opinion Indeed, CCP doesn't want more paying customers. In fact, I think they'd ideally be doing all this for 1 person.
Iamien Democracy of Klingon Brothers R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.01.10 12:04:00 - [114] Originally by: Terion Fierceglade Originally by: Iamien Do you really believe that CCP is making a FPS with persistent battlefields instead of the standard "12v12 or "20v20" instanced battlefields? Lobbies where no gameplay takes place is not part of the gameworld. Starcraft II has nothing in common with World of Warcraft whereas Dust is a tie-in to the EVE universe. Can you see the difference? That does not make Dust 514 a MMO, sorry. Also Your realID friends for wow are also your friends in Starcraft 2.
Buck Marui Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.01.10 12:04:00 - [115] Originally by: Iamien Edited by: Iamien on 10/01/2011 11:23:28 Originally by: Buck Marui So next time you decide to compare WoW to EVE, don't. Instead compare WoW to EVE, dust 514 and World of Darkness. Because WoW is the only title that Blizzard has.... Your not helping your argument man. Also we know next to nothing about Dust or WoD. On the contrary that was my point, see below. "Ultimately you have to take this to a company level, instead of WoW and EVE you should compare Blizzard to CCP, but not until both companies are worth the same (I.E in the same league)"
Archbeholder	Posted - 2011.01.10 12:07:00 - [116] Originally by: Buck Marui So next time you decide to compare WoW to EVE, don't. Instead compare WoW to EVE, dust 514 and World of Darkness. EVE+dust+wod=75k subscriptions vs wow=12kk Originally by: Jaina Sunspot No it isn't which is why Activision Blizzard can throw Devs like candy at WOW. CCP doesn't have that, infact EVE is there only game that is finished out and making them money. You want an Activition Blizzard ammount of content, donate enough so CCP has the same budget. CCP: Total assets US$43,837,015 at 31 December 2008 Activision BlizzarsTotal assets US$13.7 billion FY 2009 Notice the small gap between the two companies, we will probably never have WOW level content. But since CCP like 90% of every other MMO do not have a increda rich parent company with years of experience accross multible genres, CCP does better then anyone would have thought. As much as money equals more content I'd like to point out that core game mechanincs don't cost a fortune to tweak. Things like removing griefing and scamming potential would attract a lot of people to eve, and more importantly KEEP them playing for more than 14 days of trial.
Jaina Sunspot Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.10 12:12:00 - [117] Originally by: Archbeholder As much as money equals more content I'd like to point out that core game mechanincs don't cost a fortune to tweak. Things like removing griefing and scamming potential would attract a lot of people to eve, and more importantly KEEP them playing for more than 14 days of trial. As well as removing a large part of there client base that has little issue with it but enjoys the danger of it. This all considering that EVE could get that flood of new subscriptions. EVE is still a niche and the go anywhere do anything no rules set in stone style is what holds people to this game despite lack of content. Most Noobs do not die to Griefers in the trial, there are fewer instances of that then people think. It is the ones who are board with the lack of gameplay who leave.
Buck Marui Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.01.10 12:12:00 - [118] Originally by: Archbeholder Things like removing griefing and scamming potential would attract a lot of people to eve, and more importantly KEEP them playing for more than 14 days of trial. But we would lose well over 50 percent* of the current playerbase Again my point is, why attract these people to EVE and change the game to accomadate them when they can just aim for that demographic with an upcoming title? *arbitrary number based on people I know who play that would leave... roughly, you get the point.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.01.10 12:16:00 - [119] Originally by: Iamien Do you really believe that CCP is making a FPS with persistent battlefields instead of the standard "12v12 or "20v20" instanced battlefields? Why not? Originally by: Archbeholder EVE+dust+wod=75k subscriptions vs wow=12kk At least use proper numbers and orders of magnitude. If you're going to argue with the wrong numbers, then we might as well state outright that EVE is a bigger game than WoW and is therefore better. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Terion Fierceglade	Posted - 2011.01.10 12:23:00 - [120] Originally by: Iamien That does not make Dust 514 a MMO, sorry. I've never said Dust 514 was an MMO, I said it has more in common with EVE as it's set in the same universe, whereas SC2 has nothing in common with WoW.
Jaina Sunspot Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.10 12:41:00 - [121] Dust is actually stated to be the first true MMO that is not for a computer that will tie directly to EVE and it is pretty obvious how they are planning it. It will all be based around PI providing the PVP portion of PI we are lacking. I think that the Dust Mercs will live in the stations looking for work moving by Jump Clones, when they are hired a ship will drop a Jump point on the invading planet along with vehicals from orbit, the defending side will already have there vehicals there as well as a jump point. Alliances will have Mercs prehired to go to warzones and have TZ coverage like now for ships ready to have troops be droped in via JC. First to destroy the other Jump Point wins and the planet goes to which player hired them. Just a theory but a cool concept.
Joss56 Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.01.10 12:48:00 - [122] Originally by: Buck Marui EVE will never rival WoW simply because the hardware does not exist, and probably never will in our lifetime, EVE is already pushing the boundaries and suffering for it, it is not because of faulty game mechanics that EVE is becoming "stale" but simply becuase the technology does not exist to take it further yet. For true, the hardware is a problem but not when you have enough $$ to get the top toys, and Eve's running with burning hardware you all know it. In other words to improve players base they have to bring other servers and this means no more sandbox like it is today, mix of pvp/pve. This doesn't mean they shouldn't think about some hardcore servers, with learnings back, full pvp anywhere where you are free to bring titans and do cynos is HS space etc etc. I already know how long this server would survive Quote: A year or so down the line EVE will attract another 100k subscribers and then become too big for itself and will have to wait another year for better hardware. Rinse and repeat. yes/no, you can double the systems number and items base plus players with best hardware: CCP can't run with something they can't awford to replace (buy) Quote: Obviously CCP knew this when they decided on the single universe model and so attempting to compare EVE to WoW in any way is just pointless, EVE is a marvel of the technology/game industry, it pushes the boundaries in almost everything it does, WoW is just a game (for better or worst) Franckly, when you test Eve you think this game has just started and when you understand it exists now since 6years a lot of questions don't get answer. Seems like some project kept at his teenage and will never grow because either the creators are unabble to do it, or lacking of imagination to do it. Everybody can learn and do lots of things, but not all are abble to be doctors or be good managers. Quote: Ultimately you have to take this to a company level, instead of WoW and EVE you should compare Blizzard to CCP, but not until both companies are worth the same (I.E in the same league) If Wow is what it is today is because they have throwned away all MMO's standarts. They reinvented the MMO and gave to the largest public something they expected. Work has intended, it's a great game no matter what a few ignorants can say. My feeling is that this game is just not getting his full potential out because of little sand in the game mechanics. I could bring some of those "sand" here but we would never agree, first of all because of the players base unability to change and progress with some game rules and mechanincs. Quote: Blizzard have done well in creating a game for everyone, unfortunately it means the next game they release is simply going to be juggling there subscribers from WoW, CCP have/are creating multiple games of differing genres to attract different demographics, any number of internet smartguys and marketing gurus would tell you the preferable method for success here. So next time you decide to compare WoW to EVE, don't. Instead compare WoW to EVE, dust 514 and World of Darkness. Compare the game is one thing quite difficult indeed, they're so different. Now we can compare and ask ourselves wy this game with this enormous potential is beiing "wasted". How many threads about empty low sec? How many post about 0.0 problems?-how many about game mechanics? Hell, i'm not an old player but something i'm pretty sure, i would like to see hundreds of targets on my overview if i was some hard core pvp"er like most of you claim. You could, but you don't know how to because your unability to change your attitude, and your unability to atract new players. Yes, not only CCP in this trouble but you guys actions since there are no rules in the game. (sorry for my poor english guys) ________________________________________________ "You do realise you live on a globe, right? And that there places outside the USA/UK?"
Darius Brinn	Posted - 2011.01.10 13:17:00 - [123] Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Originally by: Minermemememe 350k subs compared to wow's 13 million? Bigger =! Better Or do you think Justin Bieber is the best thing to ever happen to music as well? End of topic, tbh.
Archbeholder	Posted - 2011.01.10 13:19:00 - [124] Originally by: Buck Marui Originally by: Archbeholder Things like removing griefing and scamming potential would attract a lot of people to eve, and more importantly KEEP them playing for more than 14 days of trial. But we would lose well over 50 percent* of the current playerbase Again my point is, why attract these people to EVE and change the game to accomadate them when they can just aim for that demographic with an upcoming title? *arbitrary number based on people I know who play that would leave... roughly, you get the point. Ok let's say we lose those 50% of 300k(wikipedia to the rescue) and instead gain 500k more or so. 800k>300k ? Not to mention getting rid of those who enjoy/accept scamming griefing is always good for business.
Archbeholder	Posted - 2011.01.10 13:22:00 - [125] Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Originally by: Minermemememe 350k subs compared to wow's 13 million? Bigger =! Better Or do you think Justin Bieber is the best thing to ever happen to music as well? I hardly doubt that 10 developers of eve can do better than 100 developers of wow And hey, those developers wont work for free and that's where high subs number helps out
Jaina Sunspot Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.10 13:43:00 - [126] Originally by: Archbeholder Ok let's say we lose those 50% of 300k(wikipedia to the rescue) and instead gain 500k more or so. 800k>300k ? Not to mention getting rid of those who enjoy/accept scamming griefing is always good for business. And you are basing this on what, the people who leave EVE usually do it cause they don't like the game play, not because they die. Pretty much 90% of the people who quit will not be coming back. CCP does not advertise the Grief that occurs in EVE by the small subset who are effected by it and it does not slow down the number of new subs by a noticable ammount. We will loose player, and not just Griefers but people who generally enjoy the hard world aspect to the game and they will not be replaced by this magical 500k you seem to think are not satisfied by WOW. EVE is a niche and if you want it to be WOW in space go play Star Trek Online because it will never be WOW in Space. Originally by: Archbeholder I hardly doubt that 10 developers of eve can do better than 100 developers of wow And hey, those developers wont work for free and that's where high subs number helps out And because WOW is already well established we will never see those Subs unless they want a different style of MMO such as EVE Online where our subs come from.
Keta Fraal Nul and Booleans	Posted - 2011.01.10 13:48:00 - [127] Marketing. A game written with the goal of attracting 10 million ppl is different than a game written to attract 500K ppl. The challenge for developers is not who will grow faster. At this point in the growth of the gaming industry, it's who will focus on what portion of the market. Rather than taking players away from the leader, it's sometimes more beneficial to create a niche of your own. A company defining itself as a successful gaming arena for 13 million players is very different from a company defining itself as the largest successful game Universe. Both are generating revenue at what they do best. Both are leaders in their fields. Frankly, it is silly for anyone to argue that EvE would be what it is today if they tried to follow the WoW model of marketing. In fact, if EvE were anything other than what it is now, some players would be playing WoW instead, some would be playing other games less suited to their tastes, others might be working to develop a game to fill a void, etc... In the real world (outside the forums' politics and heresay) market research is what companies use to decide what they are going to do to cover costs with revenue and sustain a growth that satisfies the stockholders. --------------------------------------- Completely ignore any whining that is not toilet orientated.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.01.10 13:55:00 - [128] Originally by: Archbeholder Ok let's say we lose those 50% of 300k(wikipedia to the rescue) and instead gain 500k more or so. 800k>300k ? And that's just it ù it wouldn't gain 500k more because those people wouldn't leave their current game just to come to another game that is just like it. This has already been tried by the numerous different-world MMOs that have been launched the last couple of years. They all failed exactly because they tried to attract those 500k you're talking about by being the kind of game they supposedly likedà The reason EVE has survived is exactly because it doesn't go for that same-as-everone-else market, but rather for the ones that want a game like EVE. So why would they want to be like everyone else, when that would only mean they lose the ones they've already attracted and most likely won't attract anyone else (since they already have so much to choose from). Quote: Not to mention getting rid of those who enjoy/accept scamming griefing is always good for business. Not if your business is to make money from people who enjoy/accept scamming. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Dhaul Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.10 14:26:00 - [129] I read the OP and thought "surely everybody knows this is trolling" but no, it got 5 pages of posts. What is wrong with you people?
Jaina Sunspot Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.10 14:27:00 - [130] Originally by: Dhaul I read the OP and thought "surely everybody knows this is trolling" but no, it got 5 pages of posts. What is wrong with you people? I am bored it is the morning and I like to argue with strangers. You should know this by now.
Tornan Minmatar Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.01.10 14:30:00 - [131] please take your super care bear ass out of here. Eve is soft enough all ready. I cried when I lost my carrier to stupidity it made me learn. This is not a game for kids with ADD.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.01.10 14:32:00 - [132] Originally by: Dhaul I read the OP and thought "surely everybody knows this is trolling" but no, it got 5 pages of posts. What is wrong with you people? Because it doesn't particularly matter if the OP is trolling or not ù someone will honestly think the way he does and be just as wrong without the silly intent. So it's basically a case of arguing with them by proxy. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Tagera	Posted - 2011.01.10 14:34:00 - [133] Originally by: Tornan please take your super care bear ass out of here. Eve is soft enough all ready. I cried when I lost my carrier to stupidity it made me learn. This is not a game for kids with ADD. What carrier was it?
Durnin Stormbrow	Posted - 2011.01.10 14:41:00 - [134] Edited by: Durnin Stormbrow on 10/01/2011 14:42:42 Originally by: Archbeholder Ok let's say we lose those 50% of 300k(wikipedia to the rescue) and instead gain 500k more or so. 800k>300k ? Not to mention getting rid of those who enjoy/accept scamming griefing is always good for business. That's the line of thinking that lead John Smedley and SOE into the SWG debacle. Their thinking was that millions of players are playing WoW, let's make our game like wow so we get some of those players. We will loose some of our vets, but the new players we get will more than make up for it. What they didn't consider is that the people that wanted to play WoW already were, and had a significant investment put into their character development; and the players that played SWG were playing the game they wanted to play. When they tried to change their game into WoW with Star Wars skins it failed miserably. WoW players didn't come to SWG, SWG player left in droves & SOE's reputation was destroyed. Moral of the story is that you never **** off your current customers in the hope that someone else's customers will replace them.
Josefius Gallente JOKAS Industries Apocalypse Now.	Posted - 2011.01.10 15:02:00 - [135] Edited by: Josefius on 10/01/2011 15:02:37 Originally by: Darius Brinn Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Originally by: Minermemememe 350k subs compared to wow's 13 million? Bigger =! Better Or do you think Justin Bieber is the best thing to ever happen to music as well? End of topic, tbh. Exactly, quantity is not quality. WoW has departed even more from a decent MMO and more into the "cash cow" realm of Bobby Kotick imo. It's laughable to compare the two games in context of challenge, creativity and risk. No risk, instant gratification and over simplified game mechanics doesn't interest me, and that's why I love EVE.
Bluddwolf Seventh Mining and Industry Recon Force	Posted - 2011.01.10 15:07:00 - [136] Originally by: Minermemememe Edited by: Minermemememe on 09/01/2011 11:23:33 Eve has the makings of a killer MMO. Very nice gameplay mechanics, it is set in space which appeals to a lot of people, and the bigger my ship becomes, the shinier it gets. People don't like dying. especially in this MMO because the cost of dying is obscene. WOW has proved that the hardcore grind mentality wont get u a lot of subscribers. Still this mmo has been designed around this failed MMO mechanic and I suppose that there is nothing that they can do about it now. They got caught designing this MMO in the oppossite way when the wow behemoth arrived, so they got clobbered hard. 350k subs compared to wow's 13 million? Also, aside from the grind design, the real reason why subs never go into the wow numbers is because unlike other MMOs out there, this once actually caters to griefers. I guessed whoever design this thing think its fun to throw level 1 guys in an arena with level 85s. lol. There's also so many possibilities that a new player can get his azz kicked without him ever learning that there is more to the game. Picture this, new player comes in and is still doing tutorials. Someone invites him to a corp and since he wants to be friendly, he joins up. Now, as it happens, that corp has war declarations from a lot of pvp hardcore guilds out there who would love nothing more than to go to newbie tranining ground and blow the living crap out of the newbies. So this newbie, who's still in tutorial, don't know whats going on. he only knows some guy with the red star keeps blowing him up every time he hits the undock button. He gets mad and quits the game since he thinks thats all there is to it, getting blown up by players with red star in their names. Not only that he tells every one he knows of the awful experience that he's had. Word of mouth quickly will give the impression that eve is a pvp hardcore, i-get-blown-up-everytime-i-undock game. Too bad guys, you have a great space graphic game here and good gameplay mechanics but you missed it big time in the new player experience. I'm not sure why I'll feed this troll, probably just bored I guess. I've played EVE Online for over 6 years. I played WoW for just a bit over 8 months. I have never grown bored with playing EVE. WoW got boring after level 20, and i never made it beyond lvl 47! Can 11+ million people be wrong, and I am right? Yes!! I expect that there are at least 11 million crack addicts in the world. 11 million convicted felons in the world. 11 million morons in the world. The number of people that support something, does not make them right. To use subscription numbers to say that WOW is a better game or has a better game model is not based on any fair measure. They are two dramatically different games, that cater to two dramatically different kinds of player. So if you want EVE to become WOW, I suggest you go back to WOW and pretend you are playing EVE. All I know is that I would not return to WOW, even if it were Free to Play. I value my free time to highly to waste it there.
SomeHardLovin The Boondock Saints	Posted - 2011.01.10 15:30:00 - [137] Originally by: Minermemememe Picture this, new player comes in and is still doing tutorials. Someone invites him to a corp and since he wants to be friendly, he joins up. Now, as it happens, that corp has war declarations from a lot of pvp hardcore guilds out there who would love nothing more than to go to newbie tranining ground and blow the living crap out of the newbies. So this newbie, who's still in tutorial, don't know whats going on. he only knows some guy with the red star keeps blowing him up every time he hits the undock button. This is ironic actually.. because this is EXACTLY how my day 1 went. Logged in. Invited to a corp I knew nothing about. Suddenly blown up every 5 min for no good reason. I came close to quitting until I realised what happened and quit the corp. I was still confused about it for weeks though and afraid to join any new corps not knowing how they worked. --- Bring forth the Assault Frigate apocalypse!
Sadian	Posted - 2011.01.10 16:20:00 - [138] Quote: Ok let's say we lose those 50% of 300k(wikipedia to the rescue) and instead gain 500k more or so. 800k>300k ? Not to mention getting rid of those who enjoy/accept scamming griefing is always good for business. Haha pull numbers out of your azz much Arch? I'm still waiting for all the 'new' players that are supposed to have come to the game when they got rid of learning skills to satisfy whiners like Arch. When that happens then maybe we can do some of things the op talks about. But then again when that happens this game won't really be Eve Online anymore will it?
Buck Marui Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.01.10 16:59:00 - [139] Originally by: Dhaul I read the OP and thought "surely everybody knows this is trolling" but no, it got 5 pages of posts. What is wrong with you people? Originally by: Tippia ]Because it doesn't particularly matter if the OP is trolling or not ù someone will honestly think the way he does and be just as wrong without the silly intent. So it's basically a case of arguing with them by proxy. What Tippia said It doesn't really matter who started the OP or why, all that matters is that it is a point that can be agreed/disagreed with, wether or not the OPer believes the OP itself is a matter for his/her own conscience, and since they did little to reinforce there position it doesn't matter either way, thanks be to them for wasting there own time and saving it from someone else. I think all atempts at trolling are inherently moronic and fail since it is just a waste of ones own time but I believe in this case it is double fail?
Syn Callibri Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse Broken Chains Alliance	Posted - 2011.01.10 17:19:00 - [140] Originally by: Sadian Edited by: Sadian on 10/01/2011 16:30:05 Quote: Ok let's say we lose those 50% of 300k(wikipedia to the rescue) and instead gain 500k more or so. 800k>300k ? Not to mention getting rid of those who enjoy/accept scamming griefing is always good for business. Haha pull numbers out of your azz much Arch? I'm still waiting for all the 'new' players that are supposed to have come to the game when they got rid of learning skills to satisfy whiners like Arch. When that happens then maybe we can do something about some of things the op talks about. But then again when that happens this game won't really be Eve Online anymore will it? ...bitter vet alt detected. [21EL] Commander Tac-Ops / [21EL] I.S.C.
Corporal Punishment08 NosWaffle Nostradamus Effect	Posted - 2011.01.10 19:25:00 - [141] Edited by: Corporal Punishment08 on 10/01/2011 19:33:40 Author is obviously a WOW player. Also, there were ALOT of people who played Warcraft 1 and 2. There were alot MORE people that grew up reading The Hobbit, and the Lord of the Rings trilogies, along with other folklore wizard/goblin stuff. That, combined with the commercials featuring popular old celebrities (Obviously trying to capture the older demographic) set the bar high for MMOs. With EVE, it is an unforgiving world (As it should be). With WOW, it caters to and coddles newbies. The lowest on the totem pole can become the highest without much innerworking knowledge of the game. In EVE, good luck with that one. Also, it's funny the stigma that space sci-fi has. People think of space sci-fi as the nerdiest of the nerdy, but something like Warcraft is acceptible. But in reality, which is more far-fetched? In 30,000 years we travel the stars, or thousands of years ago there were Ogres and Goblins and Elves and magic? (At least I think it takes place thousands of years ago, or maybe it takes place in the present, in an alternate reality?) I used to play Warcraft 2, and if I had had the internet and some money at the time WOW came out, I'd probably be playing WOW myself at the moment. I was even playing an internet browser-based game called Utopia, which is a game with Goblins and Ogres and magic etc, when I saw the ad for EVE. Since I LOVE space sci-fi, I clicked it and VERY shortly after, I quit Utopia. Could've easily gone the other way. Thankful that it didn't. Edit: One other thing, in conclusion. This is not an apples to apples comparison. Not even close. Also, I'll just go ahead and leave this here
Aunty Nora	Posted - 2011.01.10 19:33:00 - [142] Originally by: Archbeholder Wow got best pvp, best pve, best... everything! hahahahahaha **** off back there then
Jovialmadness	Posted - 2011.01.10 20:17:00 - [143] Yep. Cause it does mmhmm.
Xuthi Minmatar EAT THE POOR	Posted - 2011.01.10 21:48:00 - [144] I played wow for 3 years and became dissatisfied with how watered down the game had become in subsequent expansions. In an effort to milk as much profit as possible, the game had become dumbed down way too much and for me, it just wasnt the same game anymore and I lost interest. 6 months ago, a friend linked me an article on PCgamer about a huge scam that took place in eve(http://eve.klaki.net/heist/) I was intrigued. I wanted to know more about this MMO I had heard little of. So I began reading up on it. I read about low sec, about the pirates that lived there, about how death actually had consequences, about ransoming other players and about the numerous scams that took place in the eve world - which not only were possible, but were actually allowed and part of the game. I was amazed and I loved the idea of it all. so I signed up immediately and went into low sec in my little rifter and proceeded to get blown up/podded/ransomed. I loved it. I didnt cry, didnt rage quit - it just made me even more determined to "get into" eve so that it could be me doing those same things. For the first time in quite a while, I saw Wow for the commercialized, cash cow, made-for-the-masses junk that it was. Eve, dont ever change. CCP has a great niche market with Eve, and I for one would hate to see it go the way of WoW.
Drakarin Gallente Absentia Libertas Solus	Posted - 2011.01.10 21:55:00 - [145] Originally by: Archbeholder Originally by: Buck Marui Originally by: Archbeholder Things like removing griefing and scamming potential would attract a lot of people to eve, and more importantly KEEP them playing for more than 14 days of trial. But we would lose well over 50 percent* of the current playerbase Again my point is, why attract these people to EVE and change the game to accomadate them when they can just aim for that demographic with an upcoming title? *arbitrary number based on people I know who play that would leave... roughly, you get the point. Ok let's say we lose those 50% of 300k(wikipedia to the rescue) and instead gain 500k more or so. 800k>300k ? Not to mention getting rid of those who enjoy/accept scamming griefing is always good for business. CCP, for a beautiful change, is not a business 100% invested into profit. Obviously they have this on their mind too, but their primary goal is making their dream come true. A true depiction of a harsh universe where players are free to do as they please. Give em a bunch of sand and throw them into the box, see what happens. That's the idea, and I love it. The cookie cutter WoW picture works for some, but man the idea of CCP turning EvE into it terrifies me. This is the only gaming haven for those who enjoy a bit of a challenge and excitement to their MMOs.
Goose99	Posted - 2011.01.10 22:14:00 - [146] Edited by: Goose99 on 10/01/2011 22:15:35 Originally by: Xuthi I played wow for 3 years and became dissatisfied with how watered down the game had become in subsequent expansions. In an effort to milk as much profit as possible, the game had become dumbed down way too much and for me, it just wasnt the same game anymore and I lost interest. 6 months ago, a friend linked me an article on PCgamer about a huge scam that took place in eve(http://eve.klaki.net/heist/) I was intrigued. I wanted to know more about this MMO I had heard little of. So I began reading up on it. I read about low sec, about the pirates that lived there, about how death actually had consequences, about ransoming other players and about the numerous scams that took place in the eve world - which not only were possible, but were actually allowed and part of the game. I was amazed and I loved the idea of it all. so I signed up immediately and went into low sec in my little rifter and proceeded to get blown up/podded/ransomed. I loved it. I didnt cry, didnt rage quit - it just made me even more determined to "get into" eve so that it could be me doing those same things. For the first time in quite a while, I saw Wow for the commercialized, cash cow, made-for-the-masses junk that it was. Eve, dont ever change. CCP has a great niche market with Eve, and I for one would hate to see it go the way of WoW. What you linked used to be what eve was about in the old days. Nowdays it's all about highsec suicide ganking carebears, grieving noobs, and farming killmails. It's neither challenging nor exciting. It used to be about competition, now, it's about taking candy from babies. Not sure if you would remember this, but there was a time when "tear-farming" is an unknown concept among eve playerbase. It was about fighting the fight and pitting yourself against the best. There was no kb, the proof of your worth is by acknowledgment of your peers. I used to be in it, but "it" has changed. Even wow-istic neutering is preferable to eve's current sorry state. Someone put this thing out of its misery.
Nora Skuld	Posted - 2011.01.10 22:38:00 - [147] Originally by: Xuthi [...]about how death actually had consequences[...] LOL! Except losing precious time, there's no dire consequences to death. Afterall, aren't capsuleer immortal demi gods? The only people who suffers significant consequences are the carebears being suicide ganked in their pimped Golem.
Xuthi Minmatar EAT THE POOR	Posted - 2011.01.10 23:36:00 - [148] Edited by: Xuthi on 10/01/2011 23:44:43 Edited by: Xuthi on 10/01/2011 23:41:16 Quote: What you linked used to be what eve was about in the old days. Nowdays it's all about highsec suicide ganking carebears, grieving noobs, and farming killmails. It's neither challenging nor exciting. It used to be about competition, now, it's about taking candy from babies. Not sure if you would remember this, but there was a time when "tear-farming" is an unknown concept among eve playerbase. It was about fighting the fight and pitting yourself against the best. There was no kb, the proof of your worth is by acknowledgment of your peers. I used to be in it, but "it" has changed. Even wow-istic neutering is preferable to eve's current sorry state. Someone put this thing out of its misery. Well I wont argue with that, being a newb and all so I dont know how it used to be, so I take you older players word for it. Though so far Eve has lived up to my expectations and its fun. Quote: LOL! Except losing precious time, there's no dire consequences to death. Afterall, aren't capsuleer immortal demi gods? The only people who suffers significant consequences are the carebears being suicide ganked in their pimped Golem. I disagree, there are consequences to death, and much more so than other MMO's in my opinion. In an MMO such as WoW, death means nothing, you simply respawn with slight damage to your equipment. "death" in eve - loss of ship, possible loss of implants etc etc. those are both consequences. For example, in Eve, I might weight up the risk vs reward of buying a set of pirate implants. In a game like WoW, you dont think "what about my equipment if i die..." its a non issue 99% of the time and death has little to no consequence. p.s dont forget killmails either, they serve as a permanent publically viewable remainder of your every loss and are used by others to judge you and can have consequences i.e applying to pvp corps.
Citizen v07	Posted - 2011.01.10 23:52:00 - [149] Maby Noobs should get 5 mil Skill Point on their first ALT so they can fly what they want and not feel upset about the long training time, us exp players know its player skill and tec that get us the hard hits, but noobs it seems just want to fly a BS because it sounds cool.
Roger Douglas Infinite Improbability Inc -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2011.01.11 00:32:00 - [150] Originally by: Serge Bastana You must have mistaken us for people who care. /thread
Jojo Jackson	Posted - 2011.01.11 00:36:00 - [151] If you read what the OP wrote, you must admit, that is right ;). Lowsec allways crys "we have no targets". Mullsec allways crys "we don't have enough people fly around". It's not becouse people don't want to life in low- or null-sec. It's becouse the old inhabitants are a pack of selfish roxor kiddys. They don't realy want NEW-inhabitants. They just want eazy targets to proll around with 50v1 gangs when they againt kickt someones T1 ass with their T2/T3 asses. Yea, there will be enough, who claim "but I life there with my 500k LP and do well. That's not true! You life there with your 3t char from your 5th twink acc! ;). You allready have the expirienc and much more important, you have 29 other chars to earn the ISK to afford all the loses! (As you will have just loses and no kills!!)
Selinate Amarr Wardens of the Void	Posted - 2011.01.11 01:42:00 - [152] Edited by: Selinate on 11/01/2011 01:43:39 Originally by: Chaos Incarnate your trolling is bad and you should feel bad actually looks like he's doing a pretty good job Also, depending on the circumstances surrounding the "incident" mentioned in the OP, it could be an offense that one could petition over. Just sayin', griefing OLD players is generally allowed and accepted, but griefing noobs unless they just get scammed (unlikely they have the isk to get scammed) or something of the sort is very frowned upon... Just my 2 cents. I honestly think Eve has it's problems also, but *at this moment*, it is the best mmo on the market imo. Once MMO devs realize that the WoW RPG model is not the only model that they have to use for an MMO, though, there might be some competition for that title for me... also, bigger≠better, but smaller≠better either...
Lilla Kharn Amarr	Posted - 2011.01.11 02:02:00 - [153] Good. Keep the newbies without a backbone and a brain out of our EVE. Bye, have fun in WoW. Can I haz stuff? There is a reason we don't play WoW. It's for people like you. ============================================= "Only the dead have seen the end of war" - Plato
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2011.01.11 02:57:00 - [154] Dear God, Your mmo sucks newbies have such a hard time because of one thing that happens, dying. No wonder so many abortions happen. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 1SEPT10
Mr NoPants Gallente Spruillo Corp	Posted - 2011.01.11 03:10:00 - [155] Originally by: Peter XZ Mark my words, we'll have 13 million subs when Incarna becomes operational, MARK MY WORDS O YE OF LITTLE FAITH. (Unless of course incarna turns out to be a favourite of weirdo perverts who get excited by imaginary avatars, Then WOW just may get a 13th Millionth and 1st subscriber; Me :) Hey ;)
Alcander Caldari The Solar Deliberative	Posted - 2011.01.11 05:55:00 - [156] Here is why Eve has a hard time retaining new players. I'll give you a few moments to wrap your heads around it. Now then. Once the average newb is out of the training tutorials they are thrown into the wolf eat wolf world of Eve Online. There they now fight their way upwards. Finding things harder and harder as there are so many options so many are overwhelmed and give up. Those that stay soon find the curve coming back in on itself and dipping down where many fall and never climb further. A rare few will climb back up, but not often. For the rest they then climb, kick, bite, and make their way over the corpses of all those who have come before them yet failed. Many more also die at this point and give up. For those who make it to the tip find that it doesn't get easier. Instead they give you the finger and stomp forward now hardened to the experience that is Eve Online. At least most do that make it that far... -------------------------------------------------- You can run, but you'll only die tired. this is a very smart person PURPLE FOR PURPLES SAKE <3 Eris
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.01.11 06:27:00 - [157] Originally by: Alcander Here is why Eve has a hard time retaining new players. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3088/2335016192_6003c39c4c_z.jpg?zz=1 Image changed to a link. Spitfire I'll give you a few moments to wrap your heads around it. Now then. Once the average newb is out of the training tutorials they are thrown into the wolf eat wolf world of Eve Online. There they now fight their way upwards. Finding things harder and harder as there are so many options so many are overwhelmed and give up. Those that stay soon find the curve coming back in on itself and dipping down where many fall and never climb further. A rare few will climb back up, but not often. For the rest they then climb, kick, bite, and make their way over the corpses of all those who have come before them yet failed. Many more also die at this point and give up. For those who make it to the tip find that it doesn't get easier. Instead they give you the finger and stomp forward now hardened to the experience that is Eve Online. At least most do that make it that far... Eve hasn't a steep learning curve.. What is so hard or complicated on the basic mechanics of the game? And if you stick to the tutorials you should be fine.. many players from 03 to 06 didn't had this kind of advanced help. Man, my tutorial broke on me after the 3rd mission or something and was unsalvageable, still here I am, 5+ years later. The problem or better feature of Eve, that so many people can't endure is this: Diagram of things to do in game There is no "Go from A to B" in Eve. There is no "This is the goal for you to achieve" in Eve. Together with the rather paranoiac setting and environment it just isn't made for the average joe. And that is good so.. average joe can play something else. support Public Idea Tracker \| 24hr PLEX
Archbeholder	Posted - 2011.01.11 06:29:00 - [158] Originally by: Nora Skuld LOL! Except losing precious time, there's no dire consequences to death. Afterall, aren't capsuleer immortal demi gods? The only people who suffers significant consequences are the carebears being suicide ganked in their pimped Golem. +1
Liliane Woodhead Intergalactic Charwomen	Posted - 2011.01.11 06:35:00 - [159] I never saw any orks ( beneath the #jita-local ) in Eve Online.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors	Posted - 2011.01.11 06:36:00 - [160] Originally by: Alcander A rare few will climb back up, but not often. For the rest they then climb, kick, bite, and make their way over the corpses of all those who have come before them yet failed. Many more also die at this point and give up. For those who make it to the tip find that it doesn't get easier. Instead they give you the finger and stomp forward now hardened to the experience that is Eve Online. gives the finger _______________________ "Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown
Malema	Posted - 2011.01.11 06:58:00 - [161] Edited by: Malema on 11/01/2011 06:58:01 Although I understand this is mostly a PVP game , the PVE content is substandard . I've had countless friends leave the game after they've hit the Level 4 barrier and can't really progress from there.
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.01.11 07:03:00 - [162] Originally by: Malema Although I understand this is mostly a PVP game , the PVE content is substandard . I've had countless friends leave the game after they've hit the Level 4 barrier and can't really progress from there. Who'd had thought.. Eve has a cap. support Public Idea Tracker \| 24hr PLEX
Jaina Sunspot Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.11 07:03:00 - [163] Originally by: Malema Edited by: Malema on 11/01/2011 06:58:01 Although I understand this is mostly a PVP game , the PVE content is substandard . I've had countless friends leave the game after they've hit the Level 4 barrier and can't really progress from there. I know how you feel TBH. I am really looking forward to Incursions and really hope there is a bit of Solo content for when there are no groups for me. That said I will probably do mostly the 5 man stuff, I hope there is enough to go around. But with out solo stuff there will be little instant PVE and I have long since given up on LVL 4's unless I really need to Grind.
Drakarin Gallente Absentia Libertas Solus	Posted - 2011.01.11 07:21:00 - [164] Originally by: Tres Farmer Originally by: Alcander Here is why Eve has a hard time retaining new players. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3088/2335016192_6003c39c4c_z.jpg?zz=1 Image changed to a link. Spitfire I'll give you a few moments to wrap your heads around it. Now then. Once the average newb is out of the training tutorials they are thrown into the wolf eat wolf world of Eve Online. There they now fight their way upwards. Finding things harder and harder as there are so many options so many are overwhelmed and give up. Those that stay soon find the curve coming back in on itself and dipping down where many fall and never climb further. A rare few will climb back up, but not often. For the rest they then climb, kick, bite, and make their way over the corpses of all those who have come before them yet failed. Many more also die at this point and give up. For those who make it to the tip find that it doesn't get easier. Instead they give you the finger and stomp forward now hardened to the experience that is Eve Online. At least most do that make it that far... Eve hasn't a steep learning curve.. What is so hard or complicated on the basic mechanics of the game? And if you stick to the tutorials you should be fine.. many players from 03 to 06 didn't had this kind of advanced help. Man, my tutorial broke on me after the 3rd mission or something and was unsalvageable, still here I am, 5+ years later. The problem or better feature of Eve, that so many people can't endure is this: Diagram of things to do in game There is no "Go from A to B" in Eve. There is no "This is the goal for you to achieve" in Eve. Together with the rather paranoiac setting and environment it just isn't made for the average joe. And that is good so.. average joe can play something else. It's more about the word overwhelming, than a learning curve. You can understand the basic mechanics of the game without ever even remotely mastering it. It also doesn't touch on how much there is to know about the modules and ships and how they all interact together. Heck, after almost a year of playing I'm still learning new things here and there. It's just that type of game. That's really the strongest point of the game though. And that's why it will always be niche. Most people don't really want to "work" for their fun, in a sense that they want it directly, and very fast with minimal effort. For me, I enjoy the process leading up to the climax because I know it makes it that much sweeter.
Malema	Posted - 2011.01.11 07:43:00 - [165] Originally by: Tres Farmer Originally by: Malema Although I understand this is mostly a PVP game , the PVE content is substandard . I've had countless friends leave the game after they've hit the Level 4 barrier and can't really progress from there. Who'd had thought.. Eve has a cap. I guess they can go sit in lowsec with a Pirate faction ship and do Level 5's and pray they don't get scanned ? Almost all of them feel it's not worth the effort and unsub.
Gorenaire	Posted - 2011.01.11 07:45:00 - [166] Originally by: Dorkus Americanus OP used the word "GUILD", he he he. Explains a lot. Whats wrong with using the word guild ? guild, corp or whatever name you want to use design the same thing, an assembly of players, thats all.
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.01.11 08:15:00 - [167] Edited by: Tres Farmer on 11/01/2011 08:22:32 Originally by: Malema Originally by: Tres Farmer Originally by: Malema Although I understand this is mostly a PVP game , the PVE content is substandard . I've had countless friends leave the game after they've hit the Level 4 barrier and can't really progress from there. Who'd had thought.. Eve has a cap. I guess they can go sit in lowsec with a Pirate faction ship and do Level 5's and pray they don't get scanned? Almost all of them feel it's not worth the effort and unsub. Well, there is running lvl5s in a T3 that can't be scanned down.. Then there are wormholes with some different content that's not so easy and a "somewhat protected" environment.. There will be Incursions soon and there had been Incursions moderated by CCP lately.. You can always give yourself a challenge by going down in shipsize and trying lvl4s.. All in all the PvE content is scripted and so far there is nothing that will change that (care to correct me if I'm wrong). And I'm pretty sure CCP will have looked into this already internally and run into problems.. probably about processing power of the nodes running the show. That's also why those NPC are so unnerving dumb which isn't to change any time soon either.. Edit: PS: I stopped doing any missions after I had 2 npc corps high enough to get no waste upon refining (don't do that any more even as I stopped mining as I had a covetor trained up, lol) and another npc corp with datacore agents. Never looked back really. Even Sleepers in W-space get boring and repetitive. I did many hours exploring with the old and new system until the content got handed out like candy and thus the boring repetitiveness wasn't worth it any more either. These days I'm hopping from one field to the next till I figured out how it works. support Public Idea Tracker \| 24hr PLEX
Spenz Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2011.01.11 08:19:00 - [168] Originally by: Peter XZ Mark my words, we'll have 13 million subs when Incarna becomes operational, MARK MY WORDS O YE OF LITTLE FAITH. (Unless of course incarna turns out to be a favourite of weirdo perverts who get excited by imaginary avatars, Then WOW just may get a 13th Millionth and 1st subscriber; Me :) Considering that WoW has people who take female avatars and do EROTIC DANCING in bars, your insight is almost as dumb as the author of this thread. Actually just leave now. Cleansing the game of morons only makes the game better. If I had an Alt I would probably post with it...
Lillith Starfire	Posted - 2011.01.11 09:03:00 - [169] What are you talking about? Eve is very newbie friendly. Don't you know? You can get in Merlin and right away in a few minutes take over and ruin entire alliances??
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2011.01.11 10:13:00 - [170] Edited by: Malcanis on 11/01/2011 10:14:57 Originally by: Malema Edited by: Malema on 11/01/2011 06:58:01 Although I understand this is mostly a PVP game , the PVE content is substandard . I've had countless friends leave the game after they've hit the Level 4 barrier and can't really progress from there. Wait what? Level 5s? plexing? W-space? Ohhhh... you mean they can't progress in risk free PvE. Gotcha. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Jaina Sunspot Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.11 10:37:00 - [171] Originally by: Malcanis Wait what? Level 5s? plexing? W-space? Ohhhh... you mean they can't progress in risk free PvE. Gotcha. All that content except for Sleepers is still the same content. More ships doing more DPS is not improvement when all you have to do is fit more tank. I haven't tried Sleepers yet because my Alliance is mostly Null and I have no base there but every other bit of PVE is the same. I don't really care about the ISK I just wish there was more fun to the direct content. For someone with no Alts who wants to have fun >>> profit content blind jumps into Wormholes don't provide exactly what I am looking for. As stated the good fun PVE content, if Sleepers are that is not exactly pan Sec Levels with an over abundance of accesability. I have done Low Sec Anoms and Plexes and Null Sec Sanctums, LVL 5's not yet cause getting a fleet together when everyone is interested in Sanctums is not much of an option. Especially since all it seems to be is more DPS more Neuting more Bounty Pinatas. Other solo LVL 4 content seems just similar in Low with greater rewards. There is no system of fun content based on where you are that is not griond with rewards changing per the danger. I will probably try WH PVE sometime in the future when I am more set but diving in there solo into a wormhole where any cloaky could screw you is not much of an option as of now. That is why I am excited about Incursions, in the three area's of space I role in there will be interesting content to enjoy. But I wish it all wasn't group, I will probably be running some of the other non Incursions sites that get the new rats in the infested system despite the rewards in my Battlecruisers or an Assault ship. But I don't know if I can do those solo. Definatly will be trying to get a group together to run a few sites. Wthier way the game doesn't have a lot of PVE fun to it from my pre Incursions opinion. It has little to do with Sec status and more what is available. I hate the boring grind fest that is the current PVE system.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2011.01.11 10:44:00 - [172] Originally by: Jaina Sunspot Originally by: Malcanis Wait what? Level 5s? plexing? W-space? Ohhhh... you mean they can't progress in risk free PvE. Gotcha. All that content except for Sleepers is still the same content. More ships doing more DPS is not improvement when all you have to do is fit more tank. I haven't tried Sleepers yet because my Alliance is mostly Null and I have no base there but every other bit of PVE is the same. I don't really care about the ISK I just wish there was more fun to the direct content. For someone with no Alts who wants to have fun >>> profit content blind jumps into Wormholes don't provide exactly what I am looking for. As stated the good fun PVE content, if Sleepers are that is not exactly pan Sec Levels with an over abundance of accesability. I have done Low Sec Anoms and Plexes and Null Sec Sanctums, LVL 5's not yet cause getting a fleet together when everyone is interested in Sanctums is not much of an option. Especially since all it seems to be is more DPS more Neuting more Bounty Pinatas. Other solo LVL 4 content seems just similar in Low with greater rewards. There is no system of fun content based on where you are that is not griond with rewards changing per the danger. I will probably try WH PVE sometime in the future when I am more set but diving in there solo into a wormhole where any cloaky could screw you is not much of an option as of now. That is why I am excited about Incursions, in the three area's of space I role in there will be interesting content to enjoy. But I wish it all wasn't group, I will probably be running some of the other non Incursions sites that get the new rats in the infested system despite the rewards in my Battlecruisers or an Assault ship. But I don't know if I can do those solo. Definatly will be trying to get a group together to run a few sites. Wthier way the game doesn't have a lot of PVE fun to it from my pre Incursions opinion. It has little to do with Sec status and more what is available. I hate the boring grind fest that is the current PVE system. EVE is no diffent to any other MMO pve. Its all mobs of differing dps and tank and normaly have a boss somwhere at the end which drops the purple/gold/epic/officer loot.Generally the only difference is in what they look like. Everyone knows most of the content is player driven pvp here.
Jaina Sunspot Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.11 10:59:00 - [173] Edited by: Jaina Sunspot on 11/01/2011 11:00:48 Originally by: baltec1 EVE is no diffent to any other MMO pve. It is very different but in a good way. Originally by: baltec1 Its all mobs of differing dps and tank and normaly have a boss somwhere at the end which drops the purple/gold/epic/officer loot. Yes but the tank is so pretictable you can AFK them, there EWAR is pathetic and the defult response to tougher is throw more of the same on top of it. It is all so AFKish. Till the Supercarrier we don't even have any cool boss fights with fresh and interesting abilities. Originally by: baltec1 Generally the only difference is in what they look like. I would like to see a change in that. Like in this thread. Make regular Missions, Complexes and Ratting less boring. Originally by: baltec1 Everyone knows most of the content is player driven pvp here. I do, I have done a lot in game and enjoy all aspects except PVE, CCP is obviously doing something to make that better and less grindy. Doesn't mean I can not hope for some solo content to mix with group for when I want a quick fix. I liken it to a Trifecta. Fun PVP Fun PVE Social Interaction To be fair this is the only MMO I have played but from what I have seen current PVE needs to get more interseting. It is a big hook to MMO's and sort off a nessity. I would not be suprised if it is a reason many people leave EVE. I know if there was a Space MMO(The only kind I care about) that had better PVE it would become a serious decision where my one MMO account would go and would probably hinge on the rest of the content. But there isn't so here I am on the Raggety Edge.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2011.01.11 11:11:00 - [174] Originally by: Jaina Sunspot To be fair this is the only MMO I have played but from what I have seen current PVE needs to get more interseting. It is a big hook to MMO's and sort off a nessity. I would not be suprised if it is a reason many people leave EVE. Trust me, PVE is the same everywhere. SWG had AFK macro bots too (In the NGE all you had to do was tape down the button for your area attack to macro). The PVE in STO is even easyer than a level 4 in a nightmare. As for WOW, you get a lot of go here, pick me 10 flowers, deliver here, go kill 10 critters, deliver meat to the cook, take my sammich to the pub landlord, go wipe out this camp of bandits who stole my glass of beer ect ect. EVE pve does feel more civilised ill give you that.
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.11 11:14:00 - [175] Originally by: baltec1 EVE pve does feel more civilised ill give you that. That's because you can do it at your own pace without worrying about missioning/questing to level.
Jaina Sunspot Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.11 11:35:00 - [176] Originally by: Forum Guy That's because you can do it AFK without worrying about any of the content harming you in anyway. FYP But yeah you make good points Baltec, take a look at the link though. Things like priority targets such as RR rats, ECM rats, heavy DPS weak tank rats, NOS tackle rats, sniper rats, diverse DPS Types. Not all in one mission or plex at all the same time but tailored on a sliding scale. Lessing the idea of harder = more to the blob, increasing reward to match the new difficulty then cutting the excess rats. Perhaps leading to better server preformance combined with less AFKness. Spawns that die quick one the hook that makes them strong is gone leading to a new spawn with a new hook. Anyway it is just an idea. /shrugs
Archbeholder	Posted - 2011.01.11 11:41:00 - [177] Edited by: Archbeholder on 11/01/2011 11:40:54 Originally by: baltec1 As for WOW, you get a lot of go here, pick me 10 flowers, deliver here, go kill 10 critters, deliver meat to the cook, take my sammich to the pub landlord, go wipe out this camp of bandits who stole my glass of beer ect ect. EVE pve does feel more civilised ill give you that. Does THIS look like picking 10 flowers? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLZJRHClFvU
Jaina Sunspot Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.11 11:44:00 - [178] Originally by: Archbeholder Does THIS look like picking 10 flowers? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLZJRHClFvU Try to keep up, he means solo plexes, we are getting forty man raids with a Supercarrier Boss in exactly one week. With 5-25 man fleets with specific objectives with each group complex. We are talking about solo content.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.01.11 11:51:00 - [179] Originally by: Archbeholder Does THIS look like picking 10 flowers? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLZJRHClFvU Tbh, yes. It's much the same thing. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Khoni Honsu	Posted - 2011.01.11 11:59:00 - [180] Makes me laugh at all the stupid PvP replies to this post. The majority of those posting would not be able to PvP at all if they didn't have some external income of one kind or another. Plainly your talking out of your backsides while talking the "big I am". Eve is screwed up has ALWAYS been screwed up because the ONLY way to get on is to have some kind of passive income - invulnerable from most aspects of PvP. And that comes down to circumstances or abuse of the Eula. Stop pretending there is some "wonderful" game here that most people just don't see,, I for one have left Eve with my 4 subscribed accounts and intend to never ever return and for certain will not even consider any game CCP is involved in, their reputation preceeeds them. I'd have more faith in a fish owned fish and chip shop than CCP. Null sec is a complete joke on the subscriber base, Eve should be renamed Macros online or maybe screw the subscriber. Good luck with your ranting, complaining and pure deception of even ingame reality - for as long as it lasts.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.01.11 13:14:00 - [181] Originally by: Khoni Honsu I for one have left Eve with my 4 subscribed accounts and intend to never ever return Stuff? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Joss56 Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.01.11 13:32:00 - [182] The fact IS that if you reed this whole forum even an 10years old kid understands this: Tread1 - low sucks Thread2 -0.0sucks Tread3 - omgpwnlol botters Thread4- lol gank Thread5- can't peeveepee, ships 2expensive Thread6-blobs omfg get them out Thread7-capitals overpowerd Plenty like this Is this your exceptional perfect world? ________________________________________________ "You do realise you live on a globe, right? And that there places outside the USA/UK?"
Archbeholder	Posted - 2011.01.11 13:53:00 - [183] Originally by: Joss56 Is this your exceptional perfect world? Dude, it's SANDBOX!!!111 So its totally ok
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2011.01.11 13:55:00 - [184] Stats or STHU etc Skunk (o)
Tornan Minmatar Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.01.11 14:00:00 - [185] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Archbeholder Ok let's say we lose those 50% of 300k(wikipedia to the rescue) and instead gain 500k more or so. 800k>300k ? And that's just it ù it wouldn't gain 500k more because those people wouldn't leave their current game just to come to another game that is just like it. This has already been tried by the numerous different-world MMOs that have been launched the last couple of years. They all failed exactly because they tried to attract those 500k you're talking about by being the kind of game they supposedly likedà The reason EVE has survived is exactly because it doesn't go for that same-as-everone-else market, but rather for the ones that want a game like EVE. So why would they want to be like everyone else, when that would only mean they lose the ones they've already attracted and most likely won't attract anyone else (since they already have so much to choose from). Quote: Not to mention getting rid of those who enjoy/accept scamming griefing is always good for business. Not if your business is to make money from people who enjoy/accept scamming. agree completly
Gillaboo	Posted - 2011.01.11 14:54:00 - [186] Well, OP, it's like this. In EVE, players actually have to spend more than 30 seconds learning "how" to do something. Most can't even spell the word "tutorial", and sadly, with the brain trust of a guppy, they mostly go catatonic at the thought of even attempting the Tutorials no matter how much "dumbing down" CCP has given the Tutorials over the years. Surely you've seen the endless requests in the noob channels for help on even the simplest issues, with priceless classics like "How do I undock?" being in the All-Time Top 3. It's just too much effort for alot of the younger players -- which is great because they can cheerfully wander back to daycare in WoW and never come back. Hope that helps. -------------------------------------------------------- This space For Rent.
Malema	Posted - 2011.01.11 14:58:00 - [187] Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 11/01/2011 10:14:57 Originally by: Malema Edited by: Malema on 11/01/2011 06:58:01 Although I understand this is mostly a PVP game , the PVE content is substandard . I've had countless friends leave the game after they've hit the Level 4 barrier and can't really progress from there. Wait what? Level 5s? plexing? W-space? Ohhhh... you mean they can't progress in risk free PvE. Gotcha. I'm not sure why you're getting mad with me mate . They hit the Level 4 High Sec glass ceiling , try some of the alternatives and get bored/frustrated and leave. I know the concept of friends in real life is foreign to you , but these are people (CA,2xLawyers,IT Professional) I hang out with in real life that have left the game so can attest to what happens. Oddly enough my mates who started off as miners are still playing the game , though they're all in T2/T3 invention/production or trading now. As strange as it sounds , mining has given them a longer hangtime in the game than missioning.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.01.11 15:00:00 - [188] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Minermemememe you dont but I think CCP has a different opinion CCP has seen a constant increase in subscriptions for the last 7 years. They're not complaining. Yes, they are. Follow them on whatever social networking site you use. No only are they complaining but at one point recently they were just about panicked. The irony is that EvE does have a terrible retention rate and the OP IS a troll.
MoonDragn Caldari J0urneys End	Posted - 2011.01.11 15:27:00 - [189] Edited by: MoonDragn on 11/01/2011 15:29:00 Originally by: Archbeholder Originally by: Joss56 Is this your exceptional perfect world? Dude, it's SANDBOX!!!111 So its totally ok Would have been perfectly ok except the game was skewed towards the pirates, who as you well know, got a bit of help from the Devs. If the game had been left alone hands off without any intervention it may have had more subs. Some of us old timers got disgrunted with the ninja changes after game release and quit. Case in point, just a few weeks after release, all of the ore in the universe got switched around. So if you had already settled your corp somewhere strategic for ore mining, you were screwed. Yes back then some of us carebears were in 0.0 space a lot until those changes came about. That said, they have made significant changes to the game and the newbie experience has improved. Used to be you had to mine for hours and hours before you could get out of your newbie ship.
Syn Callibri Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse Broken Chains Alliance	Posted - 2011.01.11 16:33:00 - [190] Personally, I think that "hardcore Mega-PvPers" and "Uber-Carebears" are missing the point of the game all-together...EVE is a buffet of things to do PvP, PvE, Mining(shudders), Industry, Piracy, FW, War-decs, Politics, etc...the list goes on, telling someone "you suck because you don't play EVE the way "I" think it should be played" or "EVE sucks because it doesn't cater to all of my "perfect" desires" makes those who say it the biggest "L"...losers of all. My advice, do all that EVE offers and HTFU. [21EL] Commander Tac-Ops / [21EL] I.S.C.
Archbeholder	Posted - 2011.01.11 16:39:00 - [191] Originally by: Syn Callibri telling someone "you suck because you don't play EVE the way "I" think it should be played" or "EVE sucks because it doesn't cater to all of my "perfect" desires" makes those who say it the biggest "L"...losers of all. Originally by: Syn Callibri My advice, do all that EVE offers and HTFU. That makes you the biggest loser then.
Goose99	Posted - 2011.01.11 16:41:00 - [192] Edited by: Goose99 on 11/01/2011 16:47:30 Edited by: Goose99 on 11/01/2011 16:42:50 Originally by: Tornan Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Archbeholder Ok let's say we lose those 50% of 300k(wikipedia to the rescue) and instead gain 500k more or so. 800k>300k ? And that's just it ù it wouldn't gain 500k more because those people wouldn't leave their current game just to come to another game that is just like it. This has already been tried by the numerous different-world MMOs that have been launched the last couple of years. They all failed exactly because they tried to attract those 500k you're talking about by being the kind of game they supposedly likedà The reason EVE has survived is exactly because it doesn't go for that same-as-everone-else market, but rather for the ones that want a game like EVE. So why would they want to be like everyone else, when that would only mean they lose the ones they've already attracted and most likely won't attract anyone else (since they already have so much to choose from). Quote: Not to mention getting rid of those who enjoy/accept scamming griefing is always good for business. Not if your business is to make money from people who enjoy/accept scamming. agree completly It's a net loss if one griefer makes more than one carebear end subscription. It's often a ratio of one to a few hundred, meaning those "people" your business makes money from will have to pay a subscription hundreds of times the sum for you to pull even. Eve is the only mmo like this for very good reasons. There is a price to be paid for going against conventional business practices, one that no other for-profit company is stupid enough to pay.
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.01.11 16:44:00 - [193] Originally by: Malema Edited by: Malema on 11/01/2011 06:58:01 Although I understand this is mostly a PVP game , the PVE content is substandard . I've had countless friends leave the game after they've hit the Level 4 barrier and can't really progress from there. But that is where the end game starts. And the end game in EVE isn't risk free Hello Kitty Online I'm afraid.
Goose99	Posted - 2011.01.11 16:52:00 - [194] Originally by: Mashie Saldana Originally by: Malema Edited by: Malema on 11/01/2011 06:58:01 Although I understand this is mostly a PVP game , the PVE content is substandard . I've had countless friends leave the game after they've hit the Level 4 barrier and can't really progress from there. But that is where the end game starts. And the end game in EVE isn't risk free Hello Kitty Online I'm afraid. Also a reason why the average subscription age for eve player that made it past trial is 6 month. That is with the 7 years old vets averaged in. How long do you think it takes to train up to run lvl4s effectively? Again, going against conventional business practices. Kudos to CCP for going against good business sense, but the price is paid in cash. When CCP gets more competition someday and has trouble paying bills, they'll change eve into a more profitable game.
Archbeholder	Posted - 2011.01.11 17:08:00 - [195] Originally by: Goose99 It's a net loss if one griefer makes more than one carebear end subscription. It's often a ratio of one to a few hundred, meaning those "people" your business makes money from will have to pay a subscription hundreds of times the sum for you to pull even. Eve is the only mmo like this for very good reasons. There is a price to be paid for going against conventional business practices, one that no other for-profit company is stupid enough to pay. I agree with every word. It almost seem that guy on top of CCP doesn't need money and is in charge simply for the kicks. As much as people blame bobby kotick and the likes, they know how to appease crowd.
Selinate Amarr Wardens of the Void	Posted - 2011.01.11 17:10:00 - [196] Edited by: Selinate on 11/01/2011 17:10:24 Originally by: Joss56 The fact IS that if you reed this whole forum even an 10years old kid understands this: Tread1 - low sucks Thread2 -0.0sucks Tread3 - omgpwnlol botters Thread4- lol gank Thread5- can't peeveepee, ships 2expensive Thread6-blobs omfg get them out Thread7-capitals overpowerd Plenty like this Is this your exceptional perfect world? ^^^fixing Eve players' delusion of superiority to other MMO gamers, one reply at a time
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer The Initiative.	Posted - 2011.01.11 17:18:00 - [197] Quote: Also, aside from the grind design, the real reason why subs never go into the wow numbers is because unlike other MMOs out there, this once actually caters to griefers. I guessed whoever design this thing think its fun to throw level 1 guys in an arena with level 85s. lol. Find it amusing that he's using an alt to avoid griefers. ----------------- Friends Forever
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.01.11 17:22:00 - [198] Originally by: Goose99 Eve is the only mmo like this àand that's why it shouldn't and doesn't need to change. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Minsc Gallente A.W.M	Posted - 2011.01.11 17:27:00 - [199] Originally by: Goose99 Originally by: Mashie Saldana Originally by: Malema Edited by: Malema on 11/01/2011 06:58:01 Although I understand this is mostly a PVP game , the PVE content is substandard . I've had countless friends leave the game after they've hit the Level 4 barrier and can't really progress from there. But that is where the end game starts. And the end game in EVE isn't risk free Hello Kitty Online I'm afraid. Also a reason why the average subscription age for eve player that made it past trial is 6 month. That is with the 7 years old vets averaged in. How long do you think it takes to train up to run lvl4s effectively? Again, going against conventional business practices. Kudos to CCP for going against good business sense, but the price is paid in cash. When CCP gets more competition someday and has trouble paying bills, they'll change eve into a more profitable game. You do realize that 6 month retention is actually a lot higher than the majority of MMO's out there right? Also it takes about 3 months or less now that the learning skills are gone to be able to run lvl 4's effectively. Efficiently is of course going to take longer.
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.01.11 17:34:00 - [200] Originally by: Goose99 Also a reason why the average subscription age for eve player that made it past trial is 6 month. That is with the 7 years old vets averaged in. How long do you think it takes to train up to run lvl4s effectively? Again, going against conventional business practices. Kudos to CCP for going against good business sense, but the price is paid in cash. When CCP gets more competition someday and has trouble paying bills, they'll change eve into a more profitable game. That is a bit incorrect, the people I play with have been in game between 1 to 7.5 years, I will reach 5 myself next month. The people who can handle the harsh first few months will stay for years, the rest will became one less character name to use. The problem is that people with a WOW mentality are scared ****less of PVP with a death penalty, like OMG your ship might actually turn into a pretty explosion and your pod could go squish. I had my first PVP kill when I was 3 months old. Got podded for the first time a month later. I didn't do my first level 4 mission until a few years later because missions are bloody boring; Warp in, orbit, lock, F1, F1, F1, F1, F1, lock, F1, F1, reload, F1, F1, F1, warp to station. So no I have no idea how long it takes to be able to do missions, I would guess 30d to fly a Drake with a good enough tank and gank. I'm glad CCP have no plans on making EVE WOW in space, because that day EVE truly will die. It's funny how everyone said Star Trek Online would kill EVE, last I heard they are considering going F2P...
knobber Jobbler Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.01.11 17:47:00 - [201] I don't normally do this but this thread stemmed from a misinformed victim of marketing, the OP is a drama queen and many people have no idea what they are going on about. I've worked within MMO industry and with actually knowing something about the market, 350K subs is pretty good. Concurrency of 50,000 is pretty good, even 30,000 is pretty good. EVE already is a killer MMO in both content and subscribers. Its not WOW sized but then only WOW is WOW sized (apart from the fact Lineage 2 has in the past had more players at 16m with a total franchise of near 58m accounts over both games and its entire lifespan). If you look at other AAA MMO's, they have similar subscribers and concurrencies to EVE. WOW is a just an oddity and no one else has replicated and maintained such success (although NCsoft did in there own way do better in Asia). If you actually know anyone at CCP, you'll know they are ticking over just fine. CCP ain't hurting for cash and EVE isn't dying. Nor are CCP desperate for new player retention other than those needed to maintain enough growth to meet there forcasts.
Ana Vyr	Posted - 2011.01.11 17:54:00 - [202] Nobody here wants WoW in space. This is quite clear in this community. That aside, EvE has some pretty major obsticles for new players which can only be rectified by a LOT of reading, or by some senior player taking you under their wing for a good long time. I took the LOT of reading approach because I didn't know a single person who played, and those I met initially were jerkwad griefers intent on spoiling my first few weeks in the game. Eventually, I found a corp by getting to know the regulars in the system I had chosen as my home system. This took a couple months. I persevered because I thought the game concept was cool. Now I know how to avoid the gameplay aspects I don't enjoy. The net result of this ramble is that in EvE, you are only going to find long term players who really want to be here. I do think the game attracts a lot of sociopths that the community could do well without, and that fanbois defend these kinds of people a little too rabbidly, but hey you can't have eveything.
Goose99	Posted - 2011.01.11 18:00:00 - [203] Originally by: knobber Jobbler I don't normally do this but this thread stemmed from a misinformed victim of marketing, the OP is a drama queen and many people have no idea what they are going on about. I've worked within MMO industry and with actually knowing something about the market, 350K subs is pretty good. Concurrency of 50,000 is pretty good, even 30,000 is pretty good. EVE already is a killer MMO in both content and subscribers. Its not WOW sized but then only WOW is WOW sized (apart from the fact Lineage 2 has in the past had more players at 16m with a total franchise of near 58m accounts over both games and its entire lifespan). If you look at other AAA MMO's, they have similar subscribers and concurrencies to EVE. WOW is a just an oddity and no one else has replicated and maintained such success (although NCsoft did in there own way do better in Asia). If you actually know anyone at CCP, you'll know they are ticking over just fine. CCP ain't hurting for cash and EVE isn't dying. Nor are CCP desperate for new player retention other than those needed to maintain enough growth to meet there forcasts. Of course CCP is doing okay, that's why they can afford to maintain eve in it's current state. It doesn't change the fact that grievers are costing them a lot of costumers, just that right now, they can afford to lose costumers. Only when real competition pops up will Eve start to struggle and possibly change. Jumpgate Evolutions had some promise, but was put on hiatus.
Syn Callibri Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse Broken Chains Alliance	Posted - 2011.01.11 18:03:00 - [204] Edited by: Syn Callibri on 11/01/2011 18:04:42 Originally by: Archbeholder Originally by: Syn Callibri telling someone "you suck because you don't play EVE the way "I" think it should be played" or "EVE sucks because it doesn't cater to all of my "perfect" desires" makes those who say it the biggest "L"...losers of all. Originally by: Syn Callibri My advice, do all that EVE offers and HTFU. That makes you the biggest loser then. LOLZ....posting with your 19 day old FORUMTROLL ALT I see. [21EL] Commander Tac-Ops / [21EL] I.S.C.
Ana Vyr	Posted - 2011.01.11 18:07:00 - [205] Originally by: Goose99 Of course CCP is doing okay, that's why they can afford to maintain eve in it's current state. It doesn't change the fact that grievers are costing them a lot of costumers, just that right now, they can afford to lose costumers. Only when real competition pops up will Eve start to struggle and possibly change. Jumpgate Evolutions had some promise, but was put on hiatus. Isn't also true though that by allowing "grief" play, they are gaining customers who like that style of gaming? You have to admit, there's a lot of folks who love that kind of stuff.
VaMei Gallente	Posted - 2011.01.11 18:11:00 - [206] Originally by: Mashie Saldana The problem is that people with a WOW mentality are scared **less of PVP with a death penalty, like OMG your ship might actually turn into a pretty explosion and your pod could go squish. I had my first PVP kill when I was 3 months old. Got podded for the first time a month later. I still think that part of the New Player Experience should be getting your butt kicked; ship loss, pod loss, whole nine yards. Players coming from WoW and other games like it are stuck in the mentality of how long and hard they worked to get their shiny purple toys, and the idea of loosing those toys is the same as starting over. If the 1st thing new players get is a lesson in the 3 rules of EvE, then the idea of getting blown up in EvE will be a lost less scary for them. 1. Never fly what you can't afford to replace. 2. Never fly what you can't afford to replace.** 3. If you're following rule 1 and rule 2, anything lost can be replaced.
Archbeholder	Posted - 2011.01.11 18:11:00 - [207] Originally by: Mashie Saldana It's funny how everyone said Star Trek Online would kill EVE, last I heard they are considering going F2P... The reason that most people didn't leave eve for sto is because sto is closer to the classic mmos with orcs&elves&dragons rather than starships. And even the upcoming star wars old republic will be focused on characters rather than starships so its all fine, CCP dont have to worry
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2011.01.11 18:21:00 - [208] Edited by: baltec1 on 11/01/2011 18:22:21 Originally by: Archbeholder Edited by: Archbeholder on 11/01/2011 11:40:54 Originally by: baltec1 As for WOW, you get a lot of go here, pick me 10 flowers, deliver here, go kill 10 critters, deliver meat to the cook, take my sammich to the pub landlord, go wipe out this camp of bandits who stole my glass of beer ect ect. EVE pve does feel more civilised ill give you that. Does THIS look like picking 10 flowers? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLZJRHClFvU It looks like one of the thousands of boss fights that are in every single ground based MMO. It is the sort of thing I hate.
Nora Skuld	Posted - 2011.01.11 20:16:00 - [209] Originally by: Ana Vyr Isn't it also true though that by allowing "grief" play, they are gaining customers who like that style of gaming? You have to admit, there's a lot of folks who love that kind of stuff. Of course. Another popular internet activity is forum trolling and acting like a jerk just because you can. I initially thought that the so called harshness of EvE Online came from its very competitive gameplay. You want to reap the greatest rewards? You'll have to work for it, fight for it... and you might fail. But it seems, to some people, that what makes EvE so lolawesome is that you can get killed at any time, for any reason, even if you're no threat, even if you mind your own business and don't compete with anyone on any field. OooooOOooOooh isn't it exciting? No it's not. It's merely annoying. Not something to rage or cry about. Just disappointed that so much people are proud of this "feature" and thinks that makes EvE a much better game. I'm aware that you can't get rid of griefing without comprising many gameplay mechanics or whatever, the only thing I would ask is not to brag about it. If it can't be prohibited it still can be discouraged and even despised. "What you dare to become rests in your will to be bold. Dare to be bold, pilot." Harvesting tears is not what I would call a bold endeavor. Originally by: VaMei If the 1st thing new players get is a lesson in the 3 rules of EvE, then the idea of getting blown up in EvE will be a lost less scary for them. 1. Never fly what you can't afford to replace. 2. Never fly what you can't afford to replace. 3. If you're following rule 1 and rule 2, anything lost can be replaced. I think what makes EvE a lot less scary is the fact that good PvP ships cost almost nothing. There's no reason to cry over the loss of a rifter or a merlin. And if you're in a rookie friendly corp that's even easier. We give T1 frigs and modules for free and encourage rookies to use them whenever they like.
Jada Maroo	Posted - 2011.01.11 20:27:00 - [210] Originally by: Nora Skuld There's no reason to cry over the loss of a rifter or a merlin. If anyone ganks my Merlin I will infiltrate their alliance, become a director, and steal all their stuffz.
Vandiilo Gallente Full Metal Jacket LLC	Posted - 2011.01.11 20:30:00 - [211] Edited by: Vandiilo on 11/01/2011 20:30:15 Edited by: Vandiilo on 11/01/2011 20:30:04 Originally by: Minermemememe Edited by: Minermemememe on 09/01/2011 11:23:33 350k subs compared to wow's 13 million? All because McDonalds sells the most hamburgers doesn't make it the best burger ever. It's quite terrible actually.
Jada Maroo	Posted - 2011.01.11 20:32:00 - [212] Originally by: Vandiilo All because McDonalds sells the most hamburgers doesn't make it the best burger ever. It's quite terrible actually. They're really not bad. They're just not real hamburgers. They're kind of like candy hamburgers.
Nora Skuld	Posted - 2011.01.11 20:35:00 - [213] Edited by: Nora Skuld on 11/01/2011 20:36:50 Originally by: Jada Maroo Originally by: Nora Skuld There's no reason to cry over the loss of a rifter or a merlin. If anyone ganks my Merlin I will infiltrate their alliance, become a director, and steal all their stuffz. I said there's no reason to cry. You still can, and are encouraged to, plan your revenge. Tasty revenge... Originally by: Jada Maroo Originally by: Vandiilo All because McDonalds sells the most hamburgers doesn't make it the best burger ever. It's quite terrible actually. They're really not bad. They're just not real hamburgers. They're kind of like candy hamburgers. Why would I ever eat such a thing?!

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