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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Mary Annabelle
Moonlit Bonsai
66
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Posted - 2012.08.24 18:00:00 -
[121] - Quote
Vassal Zeren wrote:This is the kind of edgy post i was talking about. This woman is simply stating her concern about the fact that all women in the game must wear high healed shoes and you are talking as if her opinion has no merit or consequence. I'm not saying you cant voice your opinions as well (and in any case i obviously cant stop you) I'm just pointing out that there is too much condescension on the eve forums, and if people would show more respect to each other and bicker less maybe the Devs would listen more. Not being edgy here, just blunt and to the point. I am specifically avoiding making any assumptions, to be fair to her.
She is acting as if our character pictures mean something in the game, so far as what shoes we are wearing. She is defining the shoes themselves as a type of label that demeans women.
I respect that in real life she has the right to stand up for herself, and socially reject standards for footwear that she finds offend her.
This is a game.
For all you know, I have clown shoes on in my picture. Unless you make a female character, you probably have no idea what shoes we wear, or what other options we have.
That is my point. I can't see the shoes having any affect, but I am willing to let her attempt to make her case, and listen when she does.
Why do I bother, you might ask? She is only going on about shoes demeaning her... right?
Because frivolous content can be as demeaning as shoes, and I want her to look good.
For that, I need to feel like I can stand behind her on this. Which means this has to make sense to me first. |
Vassal Zeren
Uncontrollable Innovations
12
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Posted - 2012.08.24 18:58:00 -
[122] - Quote
Mary Annabelle wrote:Vassal Zeren wrote:This is the kind of edgy post i was talking about. This woman is simply stating her concern about the fact that all women in the game must wear high healed shoes and you are talking as if her opinion has no merit or consequence. I'm not saying you cant voice your opinions as well (and in any case i obviously cant stop you) I'm just pointing out that there is too much condescension on the eve forums, and if people would show more respect to each other and bicker less maybe the Devs would listen more. Not being edgy here, just blunt and to the point. I am specifically avoiding making any assumptions, to be fair to her. She is acting as if our character pictures mean something in the game, so far as what shoes we are wearing. She is defining the shoes themselves as a type of label that demeans women. I respect that in real life she has the right to stand up for herself, and socially reject standards for footwear that she finds offend her. This is a game. For all you know, I have clown shoes on in my picture. Unless you make a female character, you probably have no idea what shoes we wear, or what other options we have. That is my point. I can't see the shoes having any affect, but I am willing to let her attempt to make her case, and listen when she does. Why do I bother, you might ask? She is only going on about shoes demeaning her... right? Because frivolous content can be as demeaning as shoes, and I want her to look good. For that, I need to feel like I can stand behind her on this. Which means this has to make sense to me first.
Thank you for the clarification. I get your point and I take back what i said about the edgy. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
21
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Posted - 2012.08.24 19:42:00 -
[123] - Quote
I know I am wearing the high heels , what other people know about my character isn't really important, I would have the same complaint if this was a single player game.
During character select I was forced to choose high heels , and that pissed me off. The fact that it's a game doesn't really mean much . If someone made a video game about being a paedophile it would still be offensive even if the entire game took place in an imaginary universe where paedophilia was standard. |
Mary Annabelle
Moonlit Bonsai
66
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Posted - 2012.08.24 20:08:00 -
[124] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:I know I am wearing the high heels , what other people know about my character isn't really important, I would have the same complaint if this was a single player game.
During character select I was forced to choose high heels , and that pissed me off. The fact that it's a game doesn't really mean much . If someone made a video game about being a paedophile it would still be offensive even if the entire game took place in an imaginary universe where paedophilia was standard. Now I understand, thank you for explaining.
I support your logic. There is no reason for you to be pushed into any one single mold by anyone, and EVE is supposed to be a sandbox.
That being said, I doubt they will bother changing what to them possibly seems like a trivial detail at this stage. If they should follow through and let us walk in stations, etc, that may change. It then becomes significant how we are seen, because we will be seen at that point.
I have no interest in being judged on details unrelated to my piloting ability.
+1 |
Vassal Zeren
Uncontrollable Innovations
12
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Posted - 2012.08.24 20:11:00 -
[125] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:I know I am wearing the high heels , what other people know about my character isn't really important, I would have the same complaint if this was a single player game.
During character select I was forced to choose high heels , and that pissed me off. The fact that it's a game doesn't really mean much . If someone made a video game about being a paedophile it would still be offensive even if the entire game took place in an imaginary universe where paedophilia was standard.
Yes but high heals arnt exactly on par for atrocity with pedophilia. |
Vassal Zeren
Uncontrollable Innovations
12
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Posted - 2012.08.24 21:19:00 -
[126] - Quote
Mary Annabelle wrote:Isabel Midnight wrote:I know I am wearing the high heels , what other people know about my character isn't really important, I would have the same complaint if this was a single player game.
During character select I was forced to choose high heels , and that pissed me off. The fact that it's a game doesn't really mean much . If someone made a video game about being a paedophile it would still be offensive even if the entire game took place in an imaginary universe where paedophilia was standard. Now I understand, thank you for explaining. I support your logic. There is no reason for you to be pushed into any one single mold by anyone, and EVE is supposed to be a sandbox. That being said, I doubt they will bother changing what to them possibly seems like a trivial detail at this stage. If they should follow through and let us walk in stations, etc, that may change. It then becomes significant how we are seen, because we will be seen at that point. I have no interest in being judged on details unrelated to my piloting ability. +1
NICE communication! GO team! |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23
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Posted - 2012.08.26 19:09:00 -
[127] - Quote
bump |
Mishtkrah
Bad Company DBD Initiative Mercenaries
1
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Posted - 2012.08.26 19:41:00 -
[128] - Quote
This is clearly a troll, regardless. Rantinc.
While you are worrying about your hats, I sit here unable to log into EVE without getting socket disconnection errors.
Seems that you are just finding things to complain about. I don't mean to sound any kind of -ist, but try turning off CQ and playing the game.
I agree that there shouldn't be a gender restriction on clothing (in an ideal world) but is it really that big of a deal? Who wanders about in their CQ looking at their character anyhow?
Clearly an oversight and not nearly as important as logistics frigates (****... yes.)
TL;DR Tilt your camera up in CQ, problem solved.
Hmm... also.
There seems to be a distinct lack of sandwiches around here... I'm just saying... |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23
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Posted - 2012.08.26 23:23:00 -
[129] - Quote
More dismissive misogynistic trash... |
Nasferty
1kB Industries 1kB Galactic
0
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Posted - 2012.08.27 04:01:00 -
[130] - Quote
Huh and here I was thinking I was the only one that was a bit miffed about not being able to wear practical shoes. This is not something I'm holding my breath for but yeah I'd like new shoes and hopefully when we get the full on walking in station package (whenever that may be) we will get them. |
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Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23
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Posted - 2012.08.28 12:18:00 -
[131] - Quote
bump |
Isabella Rascario
Delphinian Enterprises
9
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Posted - 2012.08.28 13:49:00 -
[132] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:bump for feminsm
bump for making my ass look great in these high-heeled boots. GÇ£I have never thought, for my part, that man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.GÇ¥ - Jean-Jacques Rousseau
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FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2285
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Posted - 2012.08.28 14:28:00 -
[133] - Quote
Someone is taking this far too seriously.
Look, I get it that you don't like high heels. That's fine, don't wear them. I know some women who genuinely do like them, and that's also fine. My wife doesn't own any because she's 5'8, and heels make her tall to the point of drawing attention.
I can't agree with any notions of heels being misogynistic (btw, using that word only marginalizes you...avoid it). Most of the women I know well enough to talk to about such things tell me they feel like they look their best in heels, even if they can't wear them for long. When creating an avatar it stands to reason that women want to create an idealized version of themselves, and for many high heels are a part of that.
The screen shot showing the feet molded for high heels should clue you in to part of it: they designed the model for a single shoe type. for the time being, the feet are inflexible, so they had to either only offer heels, or not offer them at all. For whatever reason, they chose heels. Probably because that's what the art department thought looked best (see previous paragraph).
Why do almost all games feature men with chiseled abs? Because that's how most of us want to picture ourselves. We're not going to take a game seriously with a potbellied, farmer-tanned hero. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2285
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 14:37:00 -
[134] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:During character select I was forced to choose high heels , and that pissed me off.
Some of the ships in Eve are ugly. If they still do their jobs, I still fly them.
You're complaining because the artwork isn't according to your taste. Correction: you're angry because because you don't like the artwork.
Grow up. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Sinister Zed
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2012.08.28 18:56:00 -
[135] - Quote
If some fat-assed guy wants to roleplay an Emo chic in his games (Isabel Midnight) , that's fine by me but can we please have some coffins for corpses too? |
Katalci
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
126
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Posted - 2012.08.29 01:51:00 -
[136] - Quote
While I agree that there should have been no sex-based restrictions from the start, changing it now would take away dev time that could be spent on things that are actually a part of the real game. |
Cpt Gobla
No Bullshit Jokers Wild.
51
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Posted - 2012.08.29 09:25:00 -
[137] - Quote
Do agree that limiting female characters to high heels isn't cool.
So +1 for that one.
-1 for the OP combating sexism with even more sexism though. If you're being treated in a sexist fashion as a woman (or man) then treating the other gender in a sexist fashion by calling them all misogynistic pigs (or misandristic bitches) doesn't somehow make the situation more equal. It just makes it even worse, even more sexist.
So yeah, good point on the high heels. Bad point on the hypocrisy of generalizing all men. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
24
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 14:30:00 -
[138] - Quote
Being told to not use the word misogynistic because it marginalizes me...by a man... wow?
How about this , it was misogynistic of the art department to decide for all women that they look better in heels instead of just making females taller. |
Cpt Gobla
No Bullshit Jokers Wild.
51
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 15:21:00 -
[139] - Quote
It's not the word misogynistic that's the problem.
It's you considering me being a man a defining factor in whether my points hold value or not.
And yes, it was indeed misogynistic of the art department to decide for all women that they look better in heels instead of just making females taller.
But you laying the fault with the male gender does not improve things. It only makes the entire situation even more sexist.
Just because a portion of men (it's not even just men) treat you in a sexist manner does not give you a free pass to then turn around and treat men in a sexist manner.
I mean turn that part around into "... by a woman... wow?", I'm pretty sure you'd consider that sexist against women. So why do you use the reverse yourself? |
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
24
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 16:26:00 -
[140] - Quote
Female capsuleers don't wear high heels.
Due to a weird design flaw any female capsuleer has incredibly elongated heels on their clone, so what you mistaken think is a heel for display is actually encasing your cloning defect.
HTH
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FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2293
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Posted - 2012.08.29 16:32:00 -
[141] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Being told to not use the word misogynistic because it marginalizes me...by a man... wow? In a discussion on the topic of racism, calling someone a racist is a sure way to completely shut down any dialog. Telling a man he's misogynistic because he doesn't share your view of the world is the same thing. If you want to sway opinions, you'll have to stop insulting people for a bit.
Clue: Misogyny is "hatred or dislike of women or girls." Not everything you view as misogynistic comes from any such intent. For example, I could say "I really want my wife to quit her job and stay home with the kids." You might immediately assume I'm an oppressive pig who wants a barefoot pregnant wife making me sandwiches. The truth of the matter is, that was my wife's ambition, and it became my ambition out of love for her.
She quit her job last month and is happier than ever. God I'm such a pig.
Also, I'm way better at making sandwiches.
Isabel Midnight wrote:How about this , it was misogynistic of the art department to decide for all women that they look better in heels instead of just making females taller.
You're asserting that CCP hates women. I'm suggesting that maybe they just prefer the look of women in high heels. Or maybe they did market research, and most of the women in their research preferred characters who wore high heels. As they seem to have been limited to one shoe type per model, they went with what they thought would be most preferred. Don't assume malice when profit, preference, and ignorance are all possibilities. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2295
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 16:34:00 -
[142] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote: Female capsuleers don't wear high heels.
Due to a weird design flaw any female capsuleer has incredibly elongated heels on their clone, so what you mistaken think is a heel for display is actually encasing your cloning defect.
HTH
On the plus side, we've seen a dramatic drop in foot fetishes. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
24
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 18:50:00 -
[143] - Quote
CCPs assumption propagates misogyny whether they intended it or not.
Also at all the dudes screaming 'noo ur being sexist' , misandry isn't a real thing because for it to actually be real women would have to be in a position of privilege over men. As much as you whine and complain that they are today because of your fictional 'reverse sexism' , they are not and woman are still predominantly less privileged than men.
I think 99% of the commentors here would benefit massively from reading a feminism 101 |
Kult Altol
Republican Industries Epsilon Fleet
62
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 19:15:00 -
[144] - Quote
Wow, people whining about cigarette ashtrays in their CQ, and now people whining about high heels...
http://dagobah.net/flash/successful_troll_2.swf |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
517
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 19:47:00 -
[145] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Also, I'm way better at making sandwiches. Between your namesake on order / stick, and this sandwich making skill.... I am impressed.
I appreciate many sandwich styles. My recent favorites have been firehouse's meatball, subvay's tuna, and of course my deep dark secret... peanut butter on white bread. (Creamy style, J!F for the win)
What sandwich do you find to be most enjoyable? Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2295
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 19:55:00 -
[146] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:CCPs assumption propagates misogyny whether they intended it or not. No, it doesn't. Depicting women in high heels does NOTHING to propagate hate or discrimination. Just stop.
Isabel Midnight wrote:Also at all the dudes screaming 'noo ur being sexist' , misandry isn't a real thing because for it to actually be real women would have to be in a position of privilege over men. That's like saying black people can't be racist because they're a minority. I have a scar that demonstrates otherwise.
Isabel Midnight wrote:As much as you whine and complain that they are today because of your fictional 'reverse sexism' , they are not and woman are still predominantly less privileged than men.
I think 99% of the commentors here would benefit massively from reading a feminism 101 "Privilege" is another one of those words that is just tiring in discussions like these.
I've been accused of every kind of "privilege" there is. In truth, that's an empty word used to dismiss anything said by someone who fits into a certain category. You can cite "male privilege" and simply dismiss anything I say, while in the same breath claiming that it's impossible for a woman to be sexist. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2296
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 19:58:00 -
[147] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:What sandwich do you find to be most enjoyable?
Subway melt on flatbread with pepperjack cheese is quite awesome.
A current favorite of mine is a grilled cheese made with sourdough and mild cheddar.
I'm also somewhat addicted to bleu cheese at the moment and am trying to figure out good uses for it in sandwiches. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
517
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 20:12:00 -
[148] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote:What sandwich do you find to be most enjoyable? Subway melt on flatbread with pepperjack cheese is quite awesome. A current favorite of mine is a grilled cheese made with sourdough and mild cheddar. I'm also somewhat addicted to bleu cheese at the moment and am trying to figure out good uses for it in sandwiches. I don't normally use that cheese directly. However! Bleu cheese dressing can be used as a substitute for mayo and / or mustard for some sandwiches. Keeping in mind it can have a more salty aspect than mayo, it has a nice balance with other ingredients like bacon. (In my opinion)
I have been meaning to try the combination of a tuna sandwich using this bleu cheese dressing instead of mayo. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2296
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 21:05:00 -
[149] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:I'm also somewhat addicted to bleu cheese at the moment and am trying to figure out good uses for it in sandwiches. I don't normally use that cheese directly. However! Bleu cheese dressing can be used as a substitute for mayo and / or mustard for some sandwiches. Keeping in mind it can have a more salty aspect than mayo, it has a nice balance with other ingredients like bacon. (In my opinion) I have been meaning to try the combination of a tuna sandwich using this bleu cheese dressing instead of mayo. Bleu goes really well with beef (burgers and steaks) so I've been thinking about pairing it with roast beef. Also, it goes great with anything resembling buffalo sauce.
I've taken to snacking on the stuff with an ice-cold Dr. Pepper. The rest of the world will probably think me weird, but I find it tasty. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
24
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Posted - 2012.08.29 23:19:00 -
[150] - Quote
Please don't derail this thread |
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