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Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 13:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
Every single boot or shoe in NEX or available through the character creation thing has a massive heel on it. It's a joke and insanely misogynistic to have not even considered this massive oversight. I hate wearing high heels in real life as they are painful and extremely awkward to walk in and mostly only for pleasing dumb ass men.
CCP art team needs to pull their head out their ass and introduce some non high heels for female characters to wear. I'm supposed to be a spaceship captain not a stripper. I need actual practical shoes. Male character's get them.
You could also fix this by removing the 'gender' requirement on clothing but I guess that's another post.
STOP FORCING WOMEN TO WEAR HIGH HEELS IN VIDEO GAMES
For anyone who is unclear this isn't a joke post or a troll. I legitimately think a game that offers character customization that forces me to wear high heels in 2012 is disgusting. |
Loco Ramos
The Dark Space Initiative
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 13:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:I hate wearing high heels in real life as they are painful and extremely awkward to walk in and mostly only for pleasing dumb ass men.
If you're tall enough, can i have any data that allows me to stalk you?
I'm small, yellow skinned and have a black stripped belly, i think you'll find this sexy. My genes, your genes, flying together way way up |
Tomytronic
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
214
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 13:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
You say this isn't a joke post or a troll... but that's the troll right? I mean it just has to be. |
Vaal Hadren
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 14:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
There are NO high heel options for men!
This is an outrage, STOP forcing men to wear shoes without heels.
And tinsel. There is NO tinsel or pearl necklace option for men OR women in the NEX.
CCP DISCRIMINATE AGAINST LADYBOYS!
This matriachic insanity must NOT continue. Why do only women get pony tails and breasts?!
There's an 'ism' here just waiting to be thrown around.
Give me panties not briefs!
GAH! |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 16:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vaal Hadren wrote:There are NO high heel options for men!
This is an outrage, STOP forcing men to wear shoes without heels.
And tinsel. There is NO tinsel or pearl necklace option for men OR women in the NEX.
CCP DISCRIMINATE AGAINST LADYBOYS!
This matriachic insanity must NOT continue. Why do only women get pony tails and breasts?!
There's an 'ism' here just waiting to be thrown around.
Give me panties not briefs!
GAH!
The ability for male characters to not wear certain items is unfortunate but is not close to the same as FORCING women to wear high heels. At best high heels are uncomfortable at worst they can be extremely painful.
Dictating that women have to wear highly sexualized clothing that they would be uncomfortable wearing is simply not OK. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 11:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
bump for feminsm |
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
379
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 13:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'm flyin' a ship Flyin' a big ol' ship Pedal to the metal, hope someone doesn't give my can a flip Rollin' down the overview until the break of dawn Flyin' a ship with my high heels on
My ORE mining barge is northward bound It's time to put that hammer down Just watchin' as the AUs go flyin' by I'm ridin' twenty thousand tons of steel But it's sure hard to hold the wheel While I'm still waitin' for my nails to dry
Oh, I always gotta check my lipstick in that rear-view mirror And my pink angora sweater fits so tight I'm jammin' gears and haulin' freight Well, I sure hope my seams are straight Lord, don't let my mascara run tonight
I'm flyin' a ship Flyin' a ship Got a load to carry and some eyebrows left to pluck And I'm late for my appointment down at my hair salon So I'll be flyin' a ship with my high heels on Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you. |
NiGhTTraX
FISKL GUARDS Nulli Secunda
116
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 17:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Oh look, another one of those threads that takes space on the first page promoting some useless cowdung while legitimate ideas get overlooked. Hooray for forums! If you're gonna post here thinking your idea is the greatest thing since bacon and that it will save EVE and possibly all humankind with it, you're gonna have a bad time. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 19:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
NiGhTTraX wrote:Oh look, another one of those threads that takes space on the first page promoting some useless cowdung while legitimate ideas get overlooked. Hooray for forums!
Says a lot about your attitudes towards women if you think this is useless cowdung... |
The Chronophage
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 22:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP should just put some flats in NEX and charge 70 dollars for it. It'll be the monocle for the Eve feminist.
|
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Katie Frost
Asgard. Exodus.
91
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 23:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
This reminds me of a Southpark episode...
"THIS IS LESBOOOOOOOS!"
C'mon... high heels? Really? It's a game, no need to make it all RL political.
Turn off CQ and pretend that you are a butch female captain wearing a uniform with military boots. Problem fixed. |
Auron Solaris
House Valui
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 00:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
look, considering the fact that the doors constantly jammed on our captains quarters and the maintenance teams are out on vacation no ones going to care what you look like anyway. Also given the fact that any one character can only see a portrait of you I think you need to settle down to the fact that ccp has more pressing matters to concern them at this stage.
Once walking in stations is actually implemented then I would expect even some flip flops available, time will tell I guess. |
Christopher AET
Segmentum Solar Intrepid Crossing
143
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 00:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
This is an important and severely overlooked game feature......oh wait. Nobody cares. To used an oft quoted expression where I work...."man up" I drain ducks of their moisture for sustenance. |
Kethry Avenger
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
39
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 02:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
I would also like to have shoes without heels. Especially the ones with the label "Combat" on them. |
Dersen Lowery
Knavery Inc. StructureDamage
68
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 03:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Katie Frost wrote:C'mon... high heels? Really? It's a game, no need to make it all RL political.
How is it not bringing RL politics into a game to not give women one single practical pair of shoes? They're pilots, not executive assistants.
The vehement reaction against this is telling. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1235
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 04:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
Totally agree. Even the combatish boots have heels.
I wonder if female Dust soldiers would have heels... are there female Dust soldiers? |
Astroniomix
Thorn Project Black Thorne Alliance
151
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 06:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
I have seen the future, and it wears heels. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Omega Industries
252
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 06:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
You do realise that a massive proportion of the "women" in online games are actually men, right?
And you know that cross dressing men just love the lingerie and heels.
So basically, most of the women in EvE are actually cross dressing men, all of whom will be wanting to wear high heals.
So it's kinda understandable that they left out anything without a heal as they didn't realistically expect to get any females playing.
Since you're quite obviously female (after all, no cross dressing men ever complain about having to wear high heals) I'm going to get behind your campaign if only because I think women in EvE should actually be women and you are one so, erm..... fancy a date? |
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
380
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 11:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
How is having a female character crossdressing? Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Omega Industries
252
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 11:40:00 -
[20] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:How is having a female character crossdressing?
I think you might have taken that a little too seriously. |
|
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1072
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 12:02:00 -
[21] - Quote
Did you know that high heels may improve the tone of a woman's pelvic floor, thus affecting female incontinence?
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Omega Industries
252
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 12:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
Roime wrote:Did you know that high heels may improve the tone of a woman's pelvic floor, thus affecting female incontinence?
No, no I didn't. It's amazing some of the things you learn on this forum.
|
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
14
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 12:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
The transphobia and misogyny in this thread even after a few short days is very telling.
Walking in stations was conceived and developed to appeal to the female playerbase. There was even a long dev blog by Hellmar I believe , years ago , saying as such. Either CCP should confess that was bunk and they designed this thing to appeal to their misogynistic male playerbase, or they have gone woefully off track.
The first thing I saw when I started playing was the character creation screen where I am forced to choose high heels. First impressions count. Even if you never see it again, it's still the very first thing you do! Please fix this. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Omega Industries
254
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 14:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:The transphobia and misogyny in this thread even after a few short days is very telling.
Walking in stations was conceived and developed to appeal to the female playerbase. There was even a long dev blog by Hellmar I believe , years ago , saying as such. Either CCP should confess that was bunk and they designed this thing to appeal to their misogynistic male playerbase, or they have gone woefully off track.
The first thing I saw when I started playing was the character creation screen where I am forced to choose high heels. First impressions count. Even if you never see it again, it's still the very first thing you do! Please fix this.
One woman's misogyny is another woman's humour. Just because you've recently discovered that shouting "racist", "sexist", "ageist", "misogynist" etc will get you somewhere in today's overly touchy-feely society doesn't mean you'll get what you want just by screaming it on the EvE forums. You need to back up your claim and arguably have people agree with you before anyone from CCP will even bother looking at your demands. Misogyny requires an intent, not a misinterpretation (intentional or otherwise). Basically, whether it is actually misogynistic comes down to whether the person who said it intended it to be so, not whether you've misinterpreted a comment meant to be mildly amusing as intentionally offensive. One more thing; I was under the impression misogyny was entirely in the male domain, no?
Not all women see eye to eye with you on this one. Some view additional development time on WIS before they have any form of interaction between avatars as a complete waste of time. No one sees your shoes on a portrait, for example.
As for transphobia, get off your high horse. Just because someone doesn't agree with you you can't just accuse them of hate crimes. I have an american who works with me who pokes fun at me because of my nationality amongst other things. Should I make an official complaint about him being a racist or accept it because it's meant to be a joke? If you answer the former I pity you, I really do.
One last thing: If WIS was so important for the game (I'm ignoring gender here) why did CCP all but stop development on it? |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1236
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 14:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tchulen wrote: One last thing: If WIS was so important for the game (I'm ignoring gender here) why did CCP all but stop development on it?
That one is easy.
They spent 3 years on it and all we got was one room and the DOOR!
That plus the fearless article led to massive rage, and so CCP panicked and dropped it for a later date.
Hopefully when they pick it back up again they will give us actual content and will not remove other content. |
Michael Loney
Skullspace Industries
24
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 14:14:00 -
[26] - Quote
Until there is a slider for weight that has its lower limit set by the average of your country, heels are in. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1236
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 14:15:00 -
[27] - Quote
Roime wrote:Did you know that high heels may improve the tone of a woman's pelvic floor, thus affecting female incontinence?
Did you know bullets to the brain may improve a man's ED?
See I can make random statements without proof too. |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
183
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 14:18:00 -
[28] - Quote
i think isabels annoyance comes from the fact she uses Captains Quarters often rather than the hangar bay view that most players do. And i cant exacly say thats a bad thing. The concept of incarna was to allow players to be able to personally identify with their characters. And i am lead to believe that women need that personal touch to better connect with their avatars.
on the one hand yes there is a case that someone is taking things too far with the need for 'flats', when you consider most if not all male players play eve with captains quarters off, and with those off and the portraits being at most from the waist up, the idea complaining about a very restrictive shoe selection does seem absurd.
on the other however, chances are most women who do play eve probably play with captains quarters on. so they do see their avatar constantly, and most likely with that constant "high heel" stance. does it really take soo much effort for a member of the art department to make a small pair of flats?
i have a feeling that i should have wrote a really sexist post tho... something like "ohh once u have all the shoes u lot want i guess ur gonna start complaining u dont have the bags to match them!"...
...or something. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
15
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 16:34:00 -
[29] - Quote
Tchulen wrote:Isabel Midnight wrote:The transphobia and misogyny in this thread even after a few short days is very telling.
Walking in stations was conceived and developed to appeal to the female playerbase. There was even a long dev blog by Hellmar I believe , years ago , saying as such. Either CCP should confess that was bunk and they designed this thing to appeal to their misogynistic male playerbase, or they have gone woefully off track.
The first thing I saw when I started playing was the character creation screen where I am forced to choose high heels. First impressions count. Even if you never see it again, it's still the very first thing you do! Please fix this. One woman's misogyny is another woman's humour. Just because you've recently discovered that shouting "racist", "sexist", "ageist", "misogynist" etc will get you somewhere in today's overly touchy-feely society doesn't mean you'll get what you want just by screaming it on the EvE forums. You need to back up your claim and arguably have people agree with you before anyone from CCP will even bother looking at your demands. Misogyny requires an intent, not a misinterpretation (intentional or otherwise). Basically, whether it is actually misogynistic comes down to whether the person who said it intended it to be so, not whether you've misinterpreted a comment meant to be mildly amusing as intentionally offensive. One more thing; I was under the impression misogyny was entirely in the male domain, no? Not all women see eye to eye with you on this one. Some view additional development time on WIS before they have any form of interaction between avatars as a complete waste of time. No one sees your shoes on a portrait, for example. As for transphobia, get off your high horse. Just because someone doesn't agree with you you can't just accuse them of hate crimes. I have an american who works with me who pokes fun at me because of my nationality amongst other things. Should I make an official complaint about him being a racist or accept it because it's meant to be a joke? If you answer the former I pity you, I really do. One last thing: If WIS was so important for the game (I'm ignoring gender here) why did CCP all but stop development on it?
Typical dimissive bullshit that I've come to expect from male 'gamers'. The people who are making jokes about men in skirts are being transphobic , flat out , that isn't even a discussion its the definition of transphobia.
Misogyny certainly does not require 'intent'. Saying 'oh I'm sorry I didin't MEAN to be a sexist piece of ****' doesn't mean **** to anyone who is a victim of this ****.
The fact women are forced into high heels right at the start of the game is repulsive and offensive. I don't care if it was an accident it still needs to be fixed. |
Dersen Lowery
Knavery Inc. StructureDamage
68
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 16:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
A constructive reply: The change you want probably won't happen soon.
The problem is that realistic collision detection is exponentially complex, with the exponent roughly corresponding to the number of different heights that the engine has to take into account. This is why, at present, all capsuleers are the exact same height, about 5'8"--men in flats, women in heels. Give women the option to drop to 5'5" or so in flats, and you've just made it harder. Making flats the default shoe for women is even more work, because all the models are designed to be 5'8" in heels. CCP would have to find some way to add a few inches of height to every female toon without making any of them look absurd. Not to mention that they'd have to have two default female poses, since heels change the way that you stand and walk.
I support the feature. Just be aware that implementing it has complications, and CCP will have to engineer around them. It's not as simple as adding flats to the character customization options. |
|
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
167
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 16:46:00 -
[31] - Quote
We need more high heels and see thru leggings. Also shorter skirts. Come on CCP, get in the game! |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
15
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 16:51:00 -
[32] - Quote
Intent is not magic! If you accidentally step on someone's toe and hurt their foot, you say sorry, because you hurt their foot. It doesn't matter if you didn't intend to! Their foot still hurts!
|
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
15
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 16:52:00 -
[33] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:A constructive reply: The change you want probably won't happen soon.
The problem is that realistic collision detection is exponentially complex, with the exponent roughly corresponding to the number of different heights that the engine has to take into account. This is why, at present, all capsuleers are the exact same height, about 5'8"--men in flats, women in heels. Give women the option to drop to 5'5" or so in flats, and you've just made it harder. Making flats the default shoe for women is even more work, because all the models are designed to be 5'8" in heels. CCP would have to find some way to add a few inches of height to every female toon without making any of them look absurd. Not to mention that they'd have to have two default female poses, since heels change the way that you stand and walk.
I support the feature. Just be aware that implementing it has complications, and CCP will have to engineer around them. It's not as simple as adding flats to the character customization options.
i dont think you understand collision detection or programming. |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
167
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 16:52:00 -
[34] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote: Intent is not magic! If you accidentally step on someone's toe and hurt their foot, you say sorry, because you hurt their foot. It doesn't matter if you didn't intend to! Their foot still hurts!
Your feet should be in some 6 inch heels. |
Griffin Omanid
IntersteIIar Moneymakers
12
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 17:38:00 -
[35] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:A constructive reply: The change you want probably won't happen soon.
The problem is that realistic collision detection is exponentially complex, with the exponent roughly corresponding to the number of different heights that the engine has to take into account. This is why, at present, all capsuleers are the exact same height, about 5'8"--men in flats, women in heels. Give women the option to drop to 5'5" or so in flats, and you've just made it harder. Making flats the default shoe for women is even more work, because all the models are designed to be 5'8" in heels. CCP would have to find some way to add a few inches of height to every female toon without making any of them look absurd. Not to mention that they'd have to have two default female poses, since heels change the way that you stand and walk.
I support the feature. Just be aware that implementing it has complications, and CCP will have to engineer around them. It's not as simple as adding flats to the character customization options. i dont think you understand collision detection or programming.
He did not really talk about collision, more about the models, but there he is right. CCP just programed one male and one female modell, which can be altered in skin colour and some propotions in specific regions. You can for example also don-¦t create a reall fat character, women look either pregnant or a little bit chubby, men just look a little chubby. It is the same problem in many other 3d-Game with a lot of characters. Every person uses one of a few body, and for example female chars looks beside theire head always nearly equally hot in no respect to their age or wealth.
PS: For everyone like me who can-¦t use Imperial units 5'8" is 1.72 m, and 5'5" is 1.65 m (when using modern standart values which could alter every now and then, typicall problem with Imperial units). It fits for female chars but I think it is quit small for a male body. Now I am also pissed, because the male chars are too small, but well I use the RP-excuse the clones have to be so small to fit into the pod... |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
15
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 17:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
The female thin model looks dangerously underweight but that's probably another discussion. |
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
380
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 18:30:00 -
[37] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:The female thin model looks dangerously underweight but that's probably another discussion.
Why wouldn't a "thin" model look underweight?
Just as a "fat" model would look overweight, it makes sense. Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
15
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 18:32:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:Isabel Midnight wrote:The female thin model looks dangerously underweight but that's probably another discussion. Why wouldn't a "thin" model look underweight? Just as a "fat" model would look overweight, it makes sense.
The fat model does not actually look overweight in any way and the thin one is thin to the point of danger. |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
183
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 18:32:00 -
[39] - Quote
well in space in a pod ur hardly exercising so u will loose muscle mass... if uve ever broken a limb ull know what i mean... especially a leg, and after u get the cast removed! its kinda frightening! |
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
380
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 18:46:00 -
[40] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Tor Gungnir wrote:Isabel Midnight wrote:The female thin model looks dangerously underweight but that's probably another discussion. Why wouldn't a "thin" model look underweight? Just as a "fat" model would look overweight, it makes sense. The fat model does not actually look overweight in any way and the thin one is thin to the point of danger.
Then that is a fault of the overweight model, not the thin one.
Thin is synonymous with underweight. Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you. |
|
Selaya Ataru
Pink Kitten Kommando To The Moon
10
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 19:02:00 -
[41] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:i dont think you understand collision detection or programming.
I like your Idea and I would like to see all gender/race restrictions removed from clothing but you'll have to face it: Incarna isnt a priority right now and wont be a priority anytime soon.
|
Dersen Lowery
Knavery Inc. StructureDamage
68
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 19:09:00 -
[42] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:i dont think you understand collision detection or programming.
Your actual complaint is that CCP doesn't understand collision detection or programming, because that's the precise reason they gave when asked why all capsuleer avatars were the same height.
I'm sorry it's not satisfactory. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
15
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 19:35:00 -
[43] - Quote
Make women taller then 5'8 woman is not unusual at all |
Sinister Zed
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 19:50:00 -
[44] - Quote
Please sorry i got it wrong.
I mailed Isobella:-
hello Ms. Midnight,
i have to say a very big thank you for bringing the matter of appropriate clothing and footwear up on the forums because this game is sometimes rather silly and we shouldn't have to endure real predjudice here as well as in real life should we? I really appreciate your taking the time to make a wonderfully witty post about the ridiculous lengths some people go to when playing Eve and how they cannot separate real life from their science-fiction internet computer spaceship games.
As a result of your post you have inspired me to write a forum post complaining about the lack of respect shown to corpses in general and asking that basic wooden coffins be provided in the first instance. I will canvas players and CCP to see if we might not amend this state of affairs. Hopefully we might add plastic, biodegradeable and high-quality hardwood and brass coffins at a later date as optional extras, or indeed faction coffins with heavy plating (Amarr), Shields (Caldari), duct-tape (Minmatar) and hull-upgrades (Gallente).
Thank you again for making me laugh! that's freakin hilarious! Comfortable shoes! you fooking card you! Oh man that's priceless.
Thank you so much!
Yours in Eternity,
Sinister Zed (no, i died and came back)
More to follow...
|
Sinister Zed
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 19:52:00 -
[45] - Quote
I got confused because Isobella replied:-
From: Isabel Midnight Sent: 2012.08.19 11:57 To: Sinister Zed,
wtf if wrong with you
??? |
Sinister Zed
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 19:53:00 -
[46] - Quote
so i mailed again because I wanted to clarify, here's my mail to her:-
Hello again Ms. Midnight,
I really love your sense of humor! since reading your forums posts again i realise you are right.
Its really not fair that CCP have only released some lame clothes in the NOBLE echange store, they really need to pay attention to what people think and you're right - the small range is not appropriate. Especially when you consider the kinds of prejudice we have to put up with. I only have to mention i collect corpses in local and people start getting all stereotypical and accusing me of necrofilia.
I do agree that they need to add more to the NOBLE store clothing range, and as you rightly mention, the fact they are forcing women into conventional sexual stereotypes is surprising. I think, as this is a science-fiction internet computer spaceship game there really has to be some acknowledgement that this is not real-life and they should do something to rectify the poor selection of clothing wihch forces females into conventional roles.
I will be canvassing fellow players and CCP to see if people think we might reasonably add a range of summer-wear to the store. It would definitely improve in-game realism to include a range of appropriately skimpy Brazlian style whale-tail bikinis and mankini equivalents (for male characters), or one-piece Victorian striped bathing suits with caps for the more modest amongst us.
I was also thinking that CCP should consider further extending the range of clothing for females beyond that however, i would like to see a patent-leather gimp-suit, leather bondage harness, nipple-tassles, thigh-high red leather boots with six-inch heels and cat-masks. Male characters should be allowed these of course, in the spirit of equality. Mind you, we then need to consider the religious (in all fairness, and to improve realism) and a Hijab, Turban, Zucchetto and Papal Mitre might be added? You might, as a female character, be interested in a Hijab instead of the leather bondage waist-coat you have clothed your toon in, to ensure you don't inadvertently follow blindly conventional sexual steroetypes.
As i mentioned in my earlier mail to you, do you think the ideas I had for coffins could be usefully implemented? Since re-reading your post i have thought it might also be nice to introduce, specifically for corpse collectors like myself, a range of shrouds and post-mortem make-up,? Please let me know if you approve of my ideas.
Thank you again for making me laugh. Comfortable shoes! that's priceless.
Thank you so much!
Yours in Eternity,
Sinister Zed
ps if you do heppen to get podded can i has your corpse? |
Sinister Zed
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 19:54:00 -
[47] - Quote
but i am really confused now because she said:-
From: Isabel Midnight Sent: 2012.08.20 19:39 To: Sinister Zed,
stop posting |
Sinister Zed
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 19:55:00 -
[48] - Quote
so of course i had to mail to clarify because:-
Oh Ms. Midnight.
I have just received your most recent mail. Am i to assume tha in fact in the origibal forum post you were not actually joking? Or you do want people to ask for a wider vareity of clothing? I am confused now, could you please make clear which it is?
Thanks,
Zed
I really not sure she's serious about all men being dumb-ass? |
Dersen Lowery
Knavery Inc. StructureDamage
68
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 20:08:00 -
[49] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Make women taller then 5'8 woman is not unusual at all
My family has many of them. And there are many men taller than 5'8" as well. Only CCP can answer your objection, since you insult and abuse anyone who tries to share with you why CCP made everyone the same size.
Good luck. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
15
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 20:10:00 -
[50] - Quote
Sinister zed you are a weird individual |
|
Tomytronic
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
219
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 20:50:00 -
[51] - Quote
This whole thread is weird. |
Kingston Black
Hostile. PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
36
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 22:16:00 -
[52] - Quote
yup i find the lack of player clothing and the lack of height variation deeply disturbing and sexist.
Please fix this soon ccp I want to be 12m tall and have high heels many thanks
|
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Omega Industries
255
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 06:23:00 -
[53] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote: Typical dimissive bullshit that I've come to expect from male 'gamers'. The people who are making jokes about men in skirts are being transphobic , flat out , that isn't even a discussion its the definition of transphobia.
Misogyny certainly does not require 'intent'. Saying 'oh I'm sorry I didin't MEAN to be a sexist piece of ****' doesn't mean **** to anyone who is a victim of this ****.
The fact women are forced into high heels right at the start of the game is repulsive and offensive. I don't care if it was an accident it still needs to be fixed.
I find your anger offensive. You've made me cry a little. I also wish you'd stop refering to me as misogynistic. You should look it up and see if you can understand the definition.
Isabel Midnight wrote: Intent is not magic! If you accidentally step on someone's toe and hurt their foot, you say sorry, because you hurt their foot. It doesn't matter if you didn't intend to! Their foot still hurts!
Unless they spit venom and swear at me repeatedly in which case I laugh at them and do it again.
Isabel Midnight wrote: i dont think you understand collision detection or programming.
Lol. And you're a programmer are you?
Isabel Midnight wrote:The female thin model looks dangerously underweight but that's probably another discussion.
I guess that might be the case by contrast if you're a fat heffer. They don't look dangerously underweight to me but then I've got a good figure. |
orashnic
Rabid Ninja Space Monkey Inc. Monkeys with Guns.
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 09:25:00 -
[54] - Quote
Internet spaceships is serious business.
End of story. Good idea, clothes can wait. |
Sardek Nardan
Khanid Constructions
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 10:36:00 -
[55] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:The female thin model looks dangerously underweight but that's probably another discussion. They look like average continental europe teenage/early twenty. I do not know where you come from, but they look quite normal. Some characters are asians, so you need them to be thin as well.
For the overweight stuff: 1 - it is kind of ugly 2 - it won't fit into a pod 3 - you have to make a special set of animation (a healthy man or woman, does not walk and move the same way as an overweight one) 4 - overweight is considered a decease in some European countries and well you do not want to promote unhealthy life stile, do you? |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
15
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 10:45:00 -
[56] - Quote
Being anorexic is far more serious than being mildly overweight, especially in the short term.
For the record yes I am a programmer , python too even , I would link you my git-hub portfolio but I don't want Google to associate it with this cesspool of nerds.
Oh for Tchulen , once you've been stood on so many times you tend to get angry when people keep doing it and claiming innocence. You should try it but coming from your position of intense privilege doubt that you could even conceive of the problems for those without it in modern society. |
Mara Rinn
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1784
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 11:16:00 -
[57] - Quote
Most of the women I know who wear heels, wear them to impress other women. Their clothing, hair style, shoes and accessories are chosen to impress with style, taste, and expense. They're certainly not interested in the opinions of the men they work with. It's about looking "smart" or "sharp", not "hot".
But I would prefer to be able to wear sandals, rather than heels.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1079
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 11:21:00 -
[58] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:Roime wrote:Did you know that high heels may improve the tone of a woman's pelvic floor, thus affecting female incontinence?
Did you know bullets to the brain may improve a man's ED? See I can make random statements without proof too.
I know you can, but I don't. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7225828.stm
http://www.medicina.univr.it/fol/main?ent=persona&id=3132
As what comes to the topic, I agree with the OP, no matter how bonkers she appears, and no matter how acutely irrelevant a detail like this is in the context of the current non-existent avatar gameplay.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
57
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 12:21:00 -
[59] - Quote
I think female characters shouldnt be allowed to wear clothes at all. Harsh universe etc. Ferengi style ya know |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
174
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 12:38:00 -
[60] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Being anorexic is far more serious than being mildly overweight, especially in the short term.
For the record yes I am a programmer , python too even , I would link you my git-hub portfolio but I don't want Google to associate it with this cesspool of nerds.
Oh for Tchulen , once you've been stood on so many times you tend to get angry when people keep doing it and claiming innocence. You should try it but coming from your position of intense privilege doubt that you could even conceive of the problems for those without it in modern society.
No one cares about your program/code. You're a feminist. Now go make me a sandwich in dem heels. |
|
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
15
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 13:09:00 -
[61] - Quote
Tchulen wrote: Lol. And you're a programmer are you?
It appears someone does care and that is who I was responding to maybe? |
Astroniomix
Thorn Project Black Thorne Alliance
155
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 16:51:00 -
[62] - Quote
I'm just going to throw this out there: If I was the person responsible for THIS I would be embarrassed. I'm not kidding. It's just stupid. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Omega Industries
255
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 18:54:00 -
[63] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Being anorexic is far more serious than being mildly overweight, especially in the short term.. Who said anything about anorexia? Just because a person's thin it doesn't necessarily mean they're anorexic.
Isabel Midnight wrote:For the record yes I am a programmer , python too even , I would link you my git-hub portfolio but I don't want Google to associate it with this cesspool of nerds. If that's true I apologise and retract my sarcastic comment.
Isabel Midnight wrote:Oh for Tchulen , once you've been stood on so many times you tend to get angry when people keep doing it and claiming innocence. You should try it but coming from your position of intense privilege doubt that you could even conceive of the problems for those without it in modern society. Having thick skin generally doesn't come from living a privileged lifestyle. When you get stood on so many times you have two choices. 1) to become bitter and always assume people are trying to attack you or 2) toughen up and see things in a positive light until proven wrong. I chose the latter. It's not the easier of the two. I am genuinely sorry if your life experiences have led you to the former.
|
Dersen Lowery
Knavery Inc. StructureDamage
68
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 20:10:00 -
[64] - Quote
CCP karkur links to two videos explaining the reason that everyone's the same height here.
Put your programmer hat on, and enjoy. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
16
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 21:08:00 -
[65] - Quote
Tchulen wrote:Isabel Midnight wrote:Being anorexic is far more serious than being mildly overweight, especially in the short term.. Who said anything about anorexia? Just because a person's thin it doesn't necessarily mean they're anorexic. Isabel Midnight wrote:For the record yes I am a programmer , python too even , I would link you my git-hub portfolio but I don't want Google to associate it with this cesspool of nerds. If that's true I apologise and retract my sarcastic comment. Isabel Midnight wrote:Oh for Tchulen , once you've been stood on so many times you tend to get angry when people keep doing it and claiming innocence. You should try it but coming from your position of intense privilege doubt that you could even conceive of the problems for those without it in modern society. Having thick skin generally doesn't come from living a privileged lifestyle. When you get stood on so many times you have two choices. 1) to become bitter and always assume people are trying to attack you or 2) toughen up and see things in a positive light until proven wrong. I chose the latter. It's not the easier of the two. I am genuinely sorry if your life experiences have led you to the former.
3) do something about it
Also if CCP really don't want to have different heights, make women taller. |
Linna Excel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
71
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 23:39:00 -
[66] - Quote
First the goons want to ban high heels, next they want all female characters to wear burkas. You're either a feminazi or a terrorist bunch now I suppose. Next thing we know, the Mittani's avatar will have a 3 foot long beard.
1. Dear op, it's an online video game. Please grow a pair. 2. You shouldn't feel any pain for what your character is wearing. 3. You don't have to walk in stations now so you don't have to see them. This is why I hate RPers. 4. I want cat-ears! Why should I be forced not to have cat ears? Why FF7 not being remade right now is good |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Omega Industries
257
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 05:56:00 -
[67] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote: 3) do something about it
Also if CCP really don't want to have different heights, make women taller.
What do you do about it? Angrily lash out to protect your ill-perceived "rights"? Yeah, that fits into my 1) so you do prescribe to my former option.
I disagree. Making the women taller would be an insult to short women. At the moment it's at roughly an average height. Some people would find it just as insulting if women were made taller as you appear to find having to wear heals.
Pretty much any change you can think of I can think of a reason why it would insult me or someone else I know who plays.
Screaming about how insulted you are by something as meaningless as shoe type in an online computer game which currently has no avatar interaction merely makes you look like a whiny daddy's girl who's used to stamping her feet and getting her own way, not someone who's been trodden on as you claim.
If there was any avatar interaction and you posed it as a well thought out, calm proposal I would have got behind you 100% but you didn't. You posted a pissed off rant demanding that CCP change something because it offends you. Well, you offend me so I DEMAND that you change until you don't.
That's me done with this tripe.
|
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
51
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 06:37:00 -
[68] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote: The ability for male characters to not wear certain items is unfortunate but is not close to the same as FORCING women to wear high heels. At best high heels are uncomfortable at worst they can be extremely painful.
Dictating that women have to wear highly sexualized clothing that they would be uncomfortable wearing is simply not OK.
The high-heel habit can cause fibers in the calf muscle to shorten, and the Achilles tendon, which connects the calf muscle to the bone, to stiffen and become thicker. This will reduce your ability to run servely and this sound not like the typical capsulers to me, who are a bunch of paranoid assholes that care about efficiency. High Heels only is simply not fitting to the lore. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
16
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 12:25:00 -
[69] - Quote
Tchulen wrote:If there was any avatar interaction and you posed it as a well thought out, calm proposal I would have got behind you 100% but you didn't. You posted a pissed off rant demanding that CCP change something because it offends you. Well, you offend me so I DEMAND that you change until you don't.
http://www.derailingfordummies.com/complete.html#notlistening |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Omega Industries
259
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 12:32:00 -
[70] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Tchulen wrote:If there was any avatar interaction and you posed it as a well thought out, calm proposal I would have got behind you 100% but you didn't. You posted a pissed off rant demanding that CCP change something because it offends you. Well, you offend me so I DEMAND that you change until you don't.
http://www.derailingfordummies.com/complete.html#notlistening
Sorry, you're saying that you're a Marginalised Person? I guess this time I agree with you. |
|
GeeShizzle MacCloud
189
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 12:35:00 -
[71] - Quote
4 pages... srsly?
fml |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
16
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 15:28:00 -
[72] - Quote
It's not actually a guide , it's designed as a tounge in cheek piece on how people like you and the above love to hurt marginalized people. FYI women are marginalized. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
393
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 15:33:00 -
[73] - Quote
jeez stop this fuggin thread about bullsh*t already. cmon. highheels for female avatars? SO FUC*ING WHAT? WHO CARES? |
Tomytronic
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
221
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 15:37:00 -
[74] - Quote
Linna Excel wrote:First the goons want to ban high heels, next they want all female characters to wear burkas. Please don't associate the OP with all Goons. Most Goons have never even seen a female in real life and so would have no idea how they dress anyway. The OP does not speak for anyone but herself. I cannot stress this enough. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
16
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 16:42:00 -
[75] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:jeez stop this fuggin thread about bullsh*t already. cmon. highheels for female avatars? SO FUC*ING WHAT? WHO CARES?
typical male attitude, doesn't affect me so i don't care! |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
190
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 16:59:00 -
[76] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:It's not actually a guide , it's designed as a tounge in cheek piece on how people like you and the above love to hurt marginalized people. FYI women are marginalized.
ooo wow showing your true colours now arnt we!
and just for reference, i do like to marginalise people like you by saying the following...
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:i think isabels annoyance comes from the fact she uses Captains Quarters often rather than the hangar bay view that most players do. And i cant exacly say thats a bad thing.
--> The concept of incarna was to allow players to be able to personally identify with their characters. And i am lead to believe that women need that personal touch to better connect with their avatars.
on the one hand yes there is a case that someone is taking things too far with the need for 'flats', when you consider most if not all male players play eve with captains quarters off, and with those off and the portraits being at most from the waist up, the idea complaining about a very restrictive shoe selection does seem absurd.
on the other however...
--> chances are most women who do play eve probably play with captains quarters on. so they do see their avatar constantly, and most likely with that constant "high heel" stance.
does it really take soo much effort for a member of the art department to make a small pair of flats?
its fine having an issue with something in the game and wanting to draw attention to it bt seriously, if ur gonna shoot down people who actually say they support you then u can count me the **** out.
-1 |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
498
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 17:00:00 -
[77] - Quote
Linna Excel wrote:First the goons want to ban high heels, next they want all female characters to wear burkas. You're either a feminazi or a terrorist bunch now I suppose. Next thing we know, the Mittani's avatar will have a 3 foot long beard.
1. Dear op, it's an online video game. Please grow a pair. 2. You shouldn't feel any pain for what your character is wearing. 3. You don't have to walk in stations now so you don't have to see them. This is why I hate RPers. 4. I want cat-ears! Why should I be forced not to have cat ears? And I want you to have cat ears too....
Did you know that cats are great pets, and owning a pet can help extend your life? http://animals.howstuffworks.com/pets/live-longer-with-a-pet.htm
Now imagine you are married to a cat-woman, or that you even are a cat woman! Your stress levels will drop off, and life will be a lot better! Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
190
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 17:09:00 -
[78] - Quote
omg my gf would love the life of a cat-woman! she's always soo stressed and im always the one de-stressing her! |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1244
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 18:34:00 -
[79] - Quote
Roime wrote:Corina Jarr wrote:Roime wrote:Did you know that high heels may improve the tone of a woman's pelvic floor, thus affecting female incontinence?
Did you know bullets to the brain may improve a man's ED? See I can make random statements without proof too. I know you can, but I don't. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7225828.stmhttp://www.medicina.univr.it/fol/main?ent=persona&id=3132As what comes to the topic, I agree with the OP, no matter how bonkers she appears, and no matter how acutely irrelevant a detail like this is in the context of the current non-existent avatar gameplay. Thank you for the proof.
Nice read too. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
393
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 18:47:00 -
[80] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:jeez stop this fuggin thread about bullsh*t already. cmon. highheels for female avatars? SO FUC*ING WHAT? WHO CARES? typical male attitude, doesn't affect me so i don't care!
I think you confused eve with second life. This game is about spaceships, noone gives something about your shoes. |
|
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
336
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 19:06:00 -
[81] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Vaal Hadren wrote:There are NO high heel options for men!
This is an outrage, STOP forcing men to wear shoes without heels.
And tinsel. There is NO tinsel or pearl necklace option for men OR women in the NEX.
CCP DISCRIMINATE AGAINST LADYBOYS!
This matriachic insanity must NOT continue. Why do only women get pony tails and breasts?!
There's an 'ism' here just waiting to be thrown around.
Give me panties not briefs!
GAH! The ability for male characters to not wear certain items is unfortunate but is not close to the same as FORCING women to wear high heels. At best high heels are uncomfortable at worst they can be extremely painful. Dictating that women have to wear highly sexualized clothing that they would be uncomfortable wearing is simply not OK.
What?! Are your virtual shoes hurting your virtual feet? If I log in and start seeing men weatring heals, bras, and panties I'm leaving the game. Here's a clue for you, bras are uncomfortable too - that doesn't mean I want them removed from the game or worse.. added to the male wardrobe.. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
16
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 19:27:00 -
[82] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote:
What?! Are your virtual shoes hurting your virtual feet? If I log in and start seeing men weatring heals, bras, and panties I'm leaving the game. Here's a clue for you, bras are uncomfortable too - that doesn't mean I want them removed from the game or worse.. added to the male wardrobe..
again with the transphobia... |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
498
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 19:42:00 -
[83] - Quote
I am simply amazed at the level of assumptions that is simply whizzing by here.
We are gracefully accepting as commonplace that we are immortal pilots among the stars themselves, controlling spacecraft able to be countered only by others like us.
Why would anyone think high heels were uncomfortable...?
Perhaps they DO resemble the shoes worn by the primitives of ancient Earth. I am sure many things have an appearance that suggests inspiration from before the dawn of our history in New Eden.
FACT: High heels are perfectly comfortable, as are all footwear worn by pilots for our publicity images. If you want discomfort, wake up in a med-clone on the wrong side of the galaxy from your assets.
And as for being sexist, we do not live in those caves either. Preposterous idea.
Those shoes represent the dominance of women over sexuality itself, boasting to all others that they have both the genetic enhancements as well as the divine evolution to spin men's minds in helpless circles.
Just by wearing shoes.
Fine. By all means, please do exorcise your right to diminish yourself in the eyes of your peers, and would be admirers... Take them off. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
16
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 20:01:00 -
[84] - Quote
I don't want anything to impress gross videogaming dudes ty |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
498
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 20:12:00 -
[85] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:I don't want anything to impress gross videogaming dudes ty You are a female capsuleer. If you did not want to impress men, the mistake was in being born a goddess over them.
All of us, men and women, represent the apex of perfection possible in humanity.
We are the gods raining down the fires from the skies above. We are the immortal icons for mortal dreams of power and glory.
It is not our place to care what lesser beings think of us. That is their burden to bear.
Do not demean yourself by stepping down from the altar they place you on. It is our birthright to be worshiped and envied for who we are. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
16
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 20:25:00 -
[86] - Quote
A goddess who can only wear specific shoe types. Yup. |
Janet Patton
Brony Express
47
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 20:38:00 -
[87] - Quote
I personally like my height enhancers.
If you want to stay a midget stick with your pair of free sketchers. Why do I have this sig? I don't smoke. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
498
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 20:42:00 -
[88] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:A goddess who can only wear specific shoe types. Yup. Do you also complain about the perfection of your feet? After all, you have only two.
What about your legs, curved and evolved to drive all men mad, surely they are a source of countless fantasies with these dude people you spoke of.
When it comes right down to it, your entire form is one divine weapon to confuse and overwhelm the minds of mortal men.
How can you so easily despair over our place in things. We have a role to play in this universe, clearly defined.
When mortals see a stop sign, they stop. When said mortals see a sign to proceed, they go.
And when the mortal men see your divine form, they dream. This 'Dude' tribe is surely no exception.
They follow the edicts fate set for them. Your thoughts are above such petty concerns by birthright.
Let them then dream, and offer you proper worship as is their place for existing as lesser beings. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
16
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 22:09:00 -
[89] - Quote
womens divine purpose : be sexually arousing for men
cool bro |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave
142
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 22:30:00 -
[90] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:womens divine purpose : be sexually arousing for men
cool bro
Well, nature intended this to be.... you know... procreation reasons.... like when birds have beautiful colors to attract the other gender... this is how things works... Stop complaining..... get used to it...
Also heels shouldn't be uncomfortable inside the pod and in the low gravity... also your avatar is probably not that heavy since CCP didn't planned for obese ones... and it will not have healthy problems because of heels and if it have just get poded and you have a new body....
So can we please let this topic die? we just need to stop posting here... and this will go bottom to the emptiness... lol |
|
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
498
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 22:34:00 -
[91] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:womens divine purpose : be sexually arousing for men
cool bro You think to mock my words, yet you near mock yourself in so trying.
These men of the dude tribe you spoke so much about, who by your responses are clearly beneath your notice. I counsel you to forget them. I say you waste too many of your divine thoughts by dwelling on their unworthy notice of you.
I would advise you should rather turn your attention somewhere more deserving, such as your next conquest. Focus on this, and let the rest pass as should all such details too trivial for your notice. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
16
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 23:52:00 -
[92] - Quote
I want to not wear heels and being forced into them is not cool regardless of how you decide I should feel about it. |
Vassal Zeren
Uncontrollable Innovations
10
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 02:49:00 -
[93] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:I want to not wear heels and being forced into them is not cool regardless of how you decide I should feel about it.
It's nice that you feal strongly about women's rights, but i suggest you take care at whom you aim your charged remarked at. For example, there are some major weirdos here but Nikk for one is hilarious! Theres a difference betwean genuine intolerance and just poking fun. Nikk is doing the latter.
Besides in the scheme of things is it important that the women in CCP's game wear heals? I noticed it too and though about it for 10 seconds, but there comes a point where you should just pick your battles, and this isnt really an important one. Thats just what some of thease punks are trying to say but they cant because articulation isnt there strong suit so they add lots of derogitory, inflamitory responses. In short your time is valuble and should not be wasted with forum posts like the one im posting. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1245
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 04:28:00 -
[94] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:I am simply amazed at the level of assumptions that is simply whizzing by here.
We are gracefully accepting as commonplace that we are immortal pilots among the stars themselves, controlling spacecraft able to be countered only by others like us.
Why would anyone think high heels were uncomfortable...?
Perhaps they DO resemble the shoes worn by the primitives of ancient Earth. I am sure many things have an appearance that suggests inspiration from before the dawn of our history in New Eden.
FACT: High heels are perfectly comfortable, as are all footwear worn by pilots for our publicity images. If you want discomfort, wake up in a med-clone on the wrong side of the galaxy from your assets.
And as for being sexist, we do not live in those caves either. Preposterous idea.
Those shoes represent the dominance of women over sexuality itself, boasting to all others that they have both the genetic enhancements as well as the divine evolution to spin men's minds in helpless circles.
Just by wearing shoes.
Fine. By all means, please do exorcise your right to diminish yourself in the eyes of your peers, and would be admirers... Take them off. This made me .
In a good way.
If only heels were painless now... |
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
51
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 05:31:00 -
[95] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote: Why would anyone think high heels were uncomfortable...?
Bio-mechanics. Changing this vie gen-tech or bio-implants would decrease run performance and why would any sane capsuler decrease his performance? The fact stays: Does not make sense to have no option on this. |
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
6
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 05:53:00 -
[96] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:I want to not wear heels and being forced into them is not cool regardless of how you decide I should feel about it.
Here's a thought: If it upsets you as much as it seems to (I'm assuming you're not just a fat guy trolling) why don't you do one of two things: 1) switch off captains quarters or 2) go play some other game as if the avatar's shoes are upsetting you this much EvE might not be the right game for you.
Regarding your comment about women being marginalised; the only women I've ever met who were marginalised are those that have decided themselves that they're marginalised. Those that don't consider themselves marginalised aren't. It's a special kind of self-pity you're wallowing in.
@Nik - Hilarious
|
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
6
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 05:57:00 -
[97] - Quote
Tenris Anis wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote: Why would anyone think high heels were uncomfortable...?
Bio-mechanics. Changing this vie gen-tech or bio-implants would decrease run performance and why would any sane capsuler decrease his performance? The fact stays: Does not make sense to have no option on this.
Sorry, how can you possibly make that claim? In fact, one could assume that if the body is modified with gen-tech or bio-implants a side effect might be an increase in run performance. I can't claim this as fact because we simply don't know. You can't either but you seem to be trying to.
The fact stays: This is how the game is. The devs have explained why this is. Whine and complain all you like. They'll change it if it's technically plausible at some point in the future and not otherwise. |
Samoth Egnoled
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
26
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 06:10:00 -
[98] - Quote
Vaal Hadren wrote:There are NO high heel options for men!
This is an outrage, STOP forcing men to wear shoes without heels.
And tinsel. There is NO tinsel or pearl necklace option for men OR women in the NEX.
CCP DISCRIMINATE AGAINST LADYBOYS!
This matriachic insanity must NOT continue. Why do only women get pony tails and breasts?!
There's an 'ism' here just waiting to be thrown around.
Give me panties not briefs!
GAH!
What he said.....
Though i do agree, it is discriminating to only put in high heels. |
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
51
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 06:16:00 -
[99] - Quote
Elshar Khandar wrote:Tenris Anis wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote: Why would anyone think high heels were uncomfortable...?
Bio-mechanics. Changing this vie gen-tech or bio-implants would decrease run performance and why would any sane capsuler decrease his performance? The fact stays: Does not make sense to have no option on this. Sorry, how can you possibly make that claim? In fact, one could assume that if the body is modified with gen-tech or bio-implants a side effect might be an increase in run performance. I can't claim this as fact because we simply don't know. You can't either but you seem to be trying to.
We are not talking here about complete reshaped humans, but about people who have the same bodyshapes as we have, therefore even with the possiblity of artificial improvements they are subject to the same mechanics as we are. I can claim this because I understand bio-mechanics, you can enhance the body in other regards to compensate, but changing your legs in a way high heels do is reducing your run performance. You may still be faster than someone without this improvements though.
Anyway, I do not care much about this ingame, it does not make sense, but does not affect my enjoyment of the game at all. Spending resources for a free update of shoes is bad. CQ are mostly bad.
Though new shoes on the nex store I would buy for my female alts, *hint* *hint* there is money ccp. And don-¦t make me laugh at you with monocle prices for a single pair ;-)
|
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Omega Industries
262
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 06:37:00 -
[100] - Quote
Tenris Anis wrote: I can claim this because I understand bio-mechanics, you can enhance the body in other regards to compensate, but changing your legs in a way high heels do is reducing your run performance. You may still be faster than someone without this improvements though
You appear to be contradicting yourself.
Be that as it may, it's still irrelevant. We're all pod pilots. We spend most of our time inside pods inside spaceships. Why would we give a toss whether we have good run performance or not? |
|
Cari Cullejen
Thukker Tribe Holdings Inc. Truncated Minds
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 09:04:00 -
[101] - Quote
I am also outraged that I have to be this muscular, smooth skinned, tight assed, hunk of a man! why are there no choices for horrible acne? why cant I have fat bulges that leak out of my pod capsule? I want my Avatar to mimic the fat ass, lazy, dirty slob that sits behind this computer and plays games all day! Also, why must all the cloths and hairstyles have to look so fashionable? If i want to be displayed in a white wing sauce and sweat stained tank top, I sure as hell should be able to! I am SO aggravated that when entering this game we are forced to "look good" CCP is obviously Cacophobic. Just look at ccp t0rfifrans with his handsome emotionless face and his stylish hairstyle-beard combo. He disgusts me... and also turns me on but that's not the point!
I Want a background picture that shows me in my goddamn mothers basement! In love with CCP Sunset |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
16
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 12:37:00 -
[102] - Quote
Could people stop attempting to derail my thread with dumb strawman arguments please thanks. If you have a genuine issue make another thread about it. |
Dajli
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 13:11:00 -
[103] - Quote
Lol, CCP just now got around to solving the whole "black" race thing by providing all the spectrum of skin tones for all races instead of just the Brutor.
On that note when are we going to get animal prints? |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Omega Industries
265
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 14:04:00 -
[104] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Could people stop attempting to derail my thread with dumb strawman arguments please thanks. If you have a genuine issue make another thread about it.
What's a strawman argument? I've looked it up but still don't get the context you're using. |
Vassal Zeren
Uncontrollable Innovations
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 15:56:00 -
[105] - Quote
Tchulen wrote:Isabel Midnight wrote:Could people stop attempting to derail my thread with dumb strawman arguments please thanks. If you have a genuine issue make another thread about it. What's a strawman argument? I've looked it up but still don't get the context you're using.
A strawman argument is taking someone elses argument and twisting what they said into a weaker, less informative, and generally stupid statment. Then the "strawman argument" is destroyed. (hence it being made of straw) A person who creates strawman arguments, is responding not to the original statment, but to their own deliberatly misinterperted and weakened argument. |
Mary Annabelle
Moonlit Bonsai
63
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 16:26:00 -
[106] - Quote
Context is the primary consideration in things relating to EVE. Either a game aspect has gameplay effects or it doesn't.
High heel shoes have cosmetic effects, in a very specific and limited context. (Unless you can see them directly, it is not a known factor)
Your ship has no bonuses or penalties derived from your character's footwear in the publicity image. Your character's footwear is not even visible to most representations, the Captain's Quarters being one of the few exceptions.
To have an objection to this, requires us to abandon the context of EVE, and substitute instead a specific real world bias against women. Such bias is hardly a universal constant, and is not omnipresent in the real world.
It is fair to say only a very limited cross section of society would even be considered to share such a bias.
You bring up straw man arguments being knocked down by those not agreeing with you.
Was your argument truly so substantial that such a comparison even makes sense? |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
17
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 19:10:00 -
[107] - Quote
It's not important to me therefore It can be important to anyone else! Good argument. |
Mary Annabelle
Moonlit Bonsai
63
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 21:30:00 -
[108] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:It's not important to me therefore It can be important to anyone else! Good argument. No.
I did not say it was lacking importance to you. You are free to care about anything, regardless of it's significance.
But before you expect ANY of us to share your view, you do need to convince us. I would hardly expect devs to be easier to sway than your fellow players.
For the reasons I stated before, you have not made your case to me.
Considering the plain nature of the logic here, I don't see or expect anyone else to seriously agree with you either. |
Jim Era
Genco Fatal Ascension
1239
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 22:39:00 -
[109] - Quote
lol women always wanting to compete |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
20
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 22:57:00 -
[110] - Quote
Mary Annabelle wrote:Isabel Midnight wrote:It's not important to me therefore It can be important to anyone else! Good argument. No. I did not say it was lacking importance to you. You are free to care about anything, regardless of it's significance. But before you expect ANY of us to share your view, you do need to convince us. I would hardly expect devs to be easier to sway than your fellow players. For the reasons I stated before, you have not made your case to me. Considering the plain nature of the logic here, I don't see or expect anyone else to seriously agree with you either.
It put's off new female players |
|
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1246
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 04:18:00 -
[111] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Mary Annabelle wrote:Isabel Midnight wrote:It's not important to me therefore It can be important to anyone else! Good argument. No. I did not say it was lacking importance to you. You are free to care about anything, regardless of it's significance. But before you expect ANY of us to share your view, you do need to convince us. I would hardly expect devs to be easier to sway than your fellow players. For the reasons I stated before, you have not made your case to me. Considering the plain nature of the logic here, I don't see or expect anyone else to seriously agree with you either. It put's off new female players Not really.
A little annoying, but so is (or are...) the Prequel Trilogy. I still watched them... and enjoyed bits and pieces. |
Amy Xadi
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 05:09:00 -
[112] - Quote
That was really kind of annoying when I first made my character, but now I just pretend the combat boots just have a weird design and that they're not actually high heels. I'm mostly disappointed that the whole walking in stations feature wasn't really fleshed out. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Omega Industries
268
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 06:24:00 -
[113] - Quote
@Vassal Zeren - Thanks for the explanation
|
Vassal Zeren
Uncontrollable Innovations
12
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 14:38:00 -
[114] - Quote
Tchulen wrote:@Vassal Zeren - Thanks for the explanation
np
thanks for the thank you! |
Vassal Zeren
Uncontrollable Innovations
12
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 14:41:00 -
[115] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:Isabel Midnight wrote:Mary Annabelle wrote:Isabel Midnight wrote:It's not important to me therefore It can be important to anyone else! Good argument. No. I did not say it was lacking importance to you. You are free to care about anything, regardless of it's significance. But before you expect ANY of us to share your view, you do need to convince us. I would hardly expect devs to be easier to sway than your fellow players. For the reasons I stated before, you have not made your case to me. Considering the plain nature of the logic here, I don't see or expect anyone else to seriously agree with you either. It put's off new female players Not really. A little annoying, but so is (or are...) the Prequel Trilogy. I still watched them... and enjoyed bits and pieces.
you've got to wonder if Lucas really made them...I guess no one said "no" to him at the studio so he put in all the random stuff he wanted. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
511
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 14:44:00 -
[116] - Quote
Vassal Zeren wrote:Tchulen wrote:@Vassal Zeren - Thanks for the explanation
np thanks for the thank you! Thank you for the general air of polite discourse, rather than the hostile smelling Vestiphobia. (Vestiphobia is the fear of clothing, shoes in this case)
A pity, she seems a lovely being otherwise... Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Megan Shazam
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 15:08:00 -
[117] - Quote
Agree 100%. I went shopping for shoes, and could only find those high heel shoes... It did not bother me to the point of writing a post on it, but since you mentioned it, I'll support this motion :)
+1 ! |
Vassal Zeren
Uncontrollable Innovations
12
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 17:05:00 -
[118] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Vassal Zeren wrote:Tchulen wrote:@Vassal Zeren - Thanks for the explanation
np thanks for the thank you! Thank you for the general air of polite discourse, rather than the hostile smelling Vestiphobia. (Vestiphobia is the fear of clothing, shoes in this case) A pity, she seems a lovely being otherwise...
I can understand where she's coming from though. There is a lot of stereotypical stuff flying around and I suppose CCP doing it too doesn't help. But yeah I think if everyone would take a more relaxed approach in discussions like this there would be room for joking and serious debate alike. As is, everyone on the forums seems a little uptight. |
Mary Annabelle
Moonlit Bonsai
66
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 17:22:00 -
[119] - Quote
Vassal Zeren wrote:I can understand where she's coming from though. There is a lot of stereotypical stuff flying around and I suppose CCP doing it too doesn't help. But yeah I think if everyone would take a more relaxed approach in discussions like this there would be room for joking and serious debate alike. As is, everyone on the forums seems a little uptight. Stereotypes are defined by their context to society. If you remove them from their context in that society, they cease to have meaning.
CCP has not defined high heels as being sexist in this game. The presumption that this social context in our reality also exists inside the game goes too far.
You may as well say I pilot a raven in real life. Simply ridiculous to consider, although I might get through traffic faster...
This is a game.
While I might sympathize with someone else's real life associations to things, they should not be my burden or problem. It would be more appropriate for her to leave her real life baggage at the door, and focus on playing EVE instead. |
Vassal Zeren
Uncontrollable Innovations
12
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 17:30:00 -
[120] - Quote
Mary Annabelle wrote:Vassal Zeren wrote:I can understand where she's coming from though. There is a lot of stereotypical stuff flying around and I suppose CCP doing it too doesn't help. But yeah I think if everyone would take a more relaxed approach in discussions like this there would be room for joking and serious debate alike. As is, everyone on the forums seems a little uptight. Stereotypes are defined by their context to society. If you remove them from their context in that society, they cease to have meaning. CCP has not defined high heels as being sexist in this game. The presumption that this social context in our reality also exists inside the game goes too far. You may as well say I pilot a raven in real life. Simply ridiculous to consider, although I might get through traffic faster... This is a game. While I might sympathize with someone else's real life associations to things, they should not be my burden or problem. It would be more appropriate for her to leave her real life baggage at the door, and focus on playing EVE instead.
This is the kind of edgy post i was talking about. This woman is simply stating her concern about the fact that all women in the game must wear high healed shoes and you are talking as if her opinion has no merit or consequence. I'm not saying you cant voice your opinions as well (and in any case i obviously cant stop you) I'm just pointing out that there is too much condescension on the eve forums, and if people would show more respect to each other and bicker less maybe the Devs would listen more. |
|
Mary Annabelle
Moonlit Bonsai
66
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 18:00:00 -
[121] - Quote
Vassal Zeren wrote:This is the kind of edgy post i was talking about. This woman is simply stating her concern about the fact that all women in the game must wear high healed shoes and you are talking as if her opinion has no merit or consequence. I'm not saying you cant voice your opinions as well (and in any case i obviously cant stop you) I'm just pointing out that there is too much condescension on the eve forums, and if people would show more respect to each other and bicker less maybe the Devs would listen more. Not being edgy here, just blunt and to the point. I am specifically avoiding making any assumptions, to be fair to her.
She is acting as if our character pictures mean something in the game, so far as what shoes we are wearing. She is defining the shoes themselves as a type of label that demeans women.
I respect that in real life she has the right to stand up for herself, and socially reject standards for footwear that she finds offend her.
This is a game.
For all you know, I have clown shoes on in my picture. Unless you make a female character, you probably have no idea what shoes we wear, or what other options we have.
That is my point. I can't see the shoes having any affect, but I am willing to let her attempt to make her case, and listen when she does.
Why do I bother, you might ask? She is only going on about shoes demeaning her... right?
Because frivolous content can be as demeaning as shoes, and I want her to look good.
For that, I need to feel like I can stand behind her on this. Which means this has to make sense to me first. |
Vassal Zeren
Uncontrollable Innovations
12
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 18:58:00 -
[122] - Quote
Mary Annabelle wrote:Vassal Zeren wrote:This is the kind of edgy post i was talking about. This woman is simply stating her concern about the fact that all women in the game must wear high healed shoes and you are talking as if her opinion has no merit or consequence. I'm not saying you cant voice your opinions as well (and in any case i obviously cant stop you) I'm just pointing out that there is too much condescension on the eve forums, and if people would show more respect to each other and bicker less maybe the Devs would listen more. Not being edgy here, just blunt and to the point. I am specifically avoiding making any assumptions, to be fair to her. She is acting as if our character pictures mean something in the game, so far as what shoes we are wearing. She is defining the shoes themselves as a type of label that demeans women. I respect that in real life she has the right to stand up for herself, and socially reject standards for footwear that she finds offend her. This is a game. For all you know, I have clown shoes on in my picture. Unless you make a female character, you probably have no idea what shoes we wear, or what other options we have. That is my point. I can't see the shoes having any affect, but I am willing to let her attempt to make her case, and listen when she does. Why do I bother, you might ask? She is only going on about shoes demeaning her... right? Because frivolous content can be as demeaning as shoes, and I want her to look good. For that, I need to feel like I can stand behind her on this. Which means this has to make sense to me first.
Thank you for the clarification. I get your point and I take back what i said about the edgy. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
21
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 19:42:00 -
[123] - Quote
I know I am wearing the high heels , what other people know about my character isn't really important, I would have the same complaint if this was a single player game.
During character select I was forced to choose high heels , and that pissed me off. The fact that it's a game doesn't really mean much . If someone made a video game about being a paedophile it would still be offensive even if the entire game took place in an imaginary universe where paedophilia was standard. |
Mary Annabelle
Moonlit Bonsai
66
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 20:08:00 -
[124] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:I know I am wearing the high heels , what other people know about my character isn't really important, I would have the same complaint if this was a single player game.
During character select I was forced to choose high heels , and that pissed me off. The fact that it's a game doesn't really mean much . If someone made a video game about being a paedophile it would still be offensive even if the entire game took place in an imaginary universe where paedophilia was standard. Now I understand, thank you for explaining.
I support your logic. There is no reason for you to be pushed into any one single mold by anyone, and EVE is supposed to be a sandbox.
That being said, I doubt they will bother changing what to them possibly seems like a trivial detail at this stage. If they should follow through and let us walk in stations, etc, that may change. It then becomes significant how we are seen, because we will be seen at that point.
I have no interest in being judged on details unrelated to my piloting ability.
+1 |
Vassal Zeren
Uncontrollable Innovations
12
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 20:11:00 -
[125] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:I know I am wearing the high heels , what other people know about my character isn't really important, I would have the same complaint if this was a single player game.
During character select I was forced to choose high heels , and that pissed me off. The fact that it's a game doesn't really mean much . If someone made a video game about being a paedophile it would still be offensive even if the entire game took place in an imaginary universe where paedophilia was standard.
Yes but high heals arnt exactly on par for atrocity with pedophilia. |
Vassal Zeren
Uncontrollable Innovations
12
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 21:19:00 -
[126] - Quote
Mary Annabelle wrote:Isabel Midnight wrote:I know I am wearing the high heels , what other people know about my character isn't really important, I would have the same complaint if this was a single player game.
During character select I was forced to choose high heels , and that pissed me off. The fact that it's a game doesn't really mean much . If someone made a video game about being a paedophile it would still be offensive even if the entire game took place in an imaginary universe where paedophilia was standard. Now I understand, thank you for explaining. I support your logic. There is no reason for you to be pushed into any one single mold by anyone, and EVE is supposed to be a sandbox. That being said, I doubt they will bother changing what to them possibly seems like a trivial detail at this stage. If they should follow through and let us walk in stations, etc, that may change. It then becomes significant how we are seen, because we will be seen at that point. I have no interest in being judged on details unrelated to my piloting ability. +1
NICE communication! GO team! |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23
|
Posted - 2012.08.26 19:09:00 -
[127] - Quote
bump |
Mishtkrah
Bad Company DBD Initiative Mercenaries
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.26 19:41:00 -
[128] - Quote
This is clearly a troll, regardless. Rantinc.
While you are worrying about your hats, I sit here unable to log into EVE without getting socket disconnection errors.
Seems that you are just finding things to complain about. I don't mean to sound any kind of -ist, but try turning off CQ and playing the game.
I agree that there shouldn't be a gender restriction on clothing (in an ideal world) but is it really that big of a deal? Who wanders about in their CQ looking at their character anyhow?
Clearly an oversight and not nearly as important as logistics frigates (****... yes.)
TL;DR Tilt your camera up in CQ, problem solved.
Hmm... also.
There seems to be a distinct lack of sandwiches around here... I'm just saying... |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23
|
Posted - 2012.08.26 23:23:00 -
[129] - Quote
More dismissive misogynistic trash... |
Nasferty
1kB Industries 1kB Galactic
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 04:01:00 -
[130] - Quote
Huh and here I was thinking I was the only one that was a bit miffed about not being able to wear practical shoes. This is not something I'm holding my breath for but yeah I'd like new shoes and hopefully when we get the full on walking in station package (whenever that may be) we will get them. |
|
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 12:18:00 -
[131] - Quote
bump |
Isabella Rascario
Delphinian Enterprises
9
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 13:49:00 -
[132] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:bump for feminsm
bump for making my ass look great in these high-heeled boots. GÇ£I have never thought, for my part, that man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.GÇ¥ - Jean-Jacques Rousseau
|
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2285
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 14:28:00 -
[133] - Quote
Someone is taking this far too seriously.
Look, I get it that you don't like high heels. That's fine, don't wear them. I know some women who genuinely do like them, and that's also fine. My wife doesn't own any because she's 5'8, and heels make her tall to the point of drawing attention.
I can't agree with any notions of heels being misogynistic (btw, using that word only marginalizes you...avoid it). Most of the women I know well enough to talk to about such things tell me they feel like they look their best in heels, even if they can't wear them for long. When creating an avatar it stands to reason that women want to create an idealized version of themselves, and for many high heels are a part of that.
The screen shot showing the feet molded for high heels should clue you in to part of it: they designed the model for a single shoe type. for the time being, the feet are inflexible, so they had to either only offer heels, or not offer them at all. For whatever reason, they chose heels. Probably because that's what the art department thought looked best (see previous paragraph).
Why do almost all games feature men with chiseled abs? Because that's how most of us want to picture ourselves. We're not going to take a game seriously with a potbellied, farmer-tanned hero. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2285
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 14:37:00 -
[134] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:During character select I was forced to choose high heels , and that pissed me off.
Some of the ships in Eve are ugly. If they still do their jobs, I still fly them.
You're complaining because the artwork isn't according to your taste. Correction: you're angry because because you don't like the artwork.
Grow up. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Sinister Zed
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 18:56:00 -
[135] - Quote
If some fat-assed guy wants to roleplay an Emo chic in his games (Isabel Midnight) , that's fine by me but can we please have some coffins for corpses too? |
Katalci
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
126
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 01:51:00 -
[136] - Quote
While I agree that there should have been no sex-based restrictions from the start, changing it now would take away dev time that could be spent on things that are actually a part of the real game. |
Cpt Gobla
No Bullshit Jokers Wild.
51
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 09:25:00 -
[137] - Quote
Do agree that limiting female characters to high heels isn't cool.
So +1 for that one.
-1 for the OP combating sexism with even more sexism though. If you're being treated in a sexist fashion as a woman (or man) then treating the other gender in a sexist fashion by calling them all misogynistic pigs (or misandristic bitches) doesn't somehow make the situation more equal. It just makes it even worse, even more sexist.
So yeah, good point on the high heels. Bad point on the hypocrisy of generalizing all men. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
24
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 14:30:00 -
[138] - Quote
Being told to not use the word misogynistic because it marginalizes me...by a man... wow?
How about this , it was misogynistic of the art department to decide for all women that they look better in heels instead of just making females taller. |
Cpt Gobla
No Bullshit Jokers Wild.
51
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 15:21:00 -
[139] - Quote
It's not the word misogynistic that's the problem.
It's you considering me being a man a defining factor in whether my points hold value or not.
And yes, it was indeed misogynistic of the art department to decide for all women that they look better in heels instead of just making females taller.
But you laying the fault with the male gender does not improve things. It only makes the entire situation even more sexist.
Just because a portion of men (it's not even just men) treat you in a sexist manner does not give you a free pass to then turn around and treat men in a sexist manner.
I mean turn that part around into "... by a woman... wow?", I'm pretty sure you'd consider that sexist against women. So why do you use the reverse yourself? |
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
24
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 16:26:00 -
[140] - Quote
Female capsuleers don't wear high heels.
Due to a weird design flaw any female capsuleer has incredibly elongated heels on their clone, so what you mistaken think is a heel for display is actually encasing your cloning defect.
HTH
|
|
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2293
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 16:32:00 -
[141] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Being told to not use the word misogynistic because it marginalizes me...by a man... wow? In a discussion on the topic of racism, calling someone a racist is a sure way to completely shut down any dialog. Telling a man he's misogynistic because he doesn't share your view of the world is the same thing. If you want to sway opinions, you'll have to stop insulting people for a bit.
Clue: Misogyny is "hatred or dislike of women or girls." Not everything you view as misogynistic comes from any such intent. For example, I could say "I really want my wife to quit her job and stay home with the kids." You might immediately assume I'm an oppressive pig who wants a barefoot pregnant wife making me sandwiches. The truth of the matter is, that was my wife's ambition, and it became my ambition out of love for her.
She quit her job last month and is happier than ever. God I'm such a pig.
Also, I'm way better at making sandwiches.
Isabel Midnight wrote:How about this , it was misogynistic of the art department to decide for all women that they look better in heels instead of just making females taller.
You're asserting that CCP hates women. I'm suggesting that maybe they just prefer the look of women in high heels. Or maybe they did market research, and most of the women in their research preferred characters who wore high heels. As they seem to have been limited to one shoe type per model, they went with what they thought would be most preferred. Don't assume malice when profit, preference, and ignorance are all possibilities. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2295
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 16:34:00 -
[142] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote: Female capsuleers don't wear high heels.
Due to a weird design flaw any female capsuleer has incredibly elongated heels on their clone, so what you mistaken think is a heel for display is actually encasing your cloning defect.
HTH
On the plus side, we've seen a dramatic drop in foot fetishes. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
24
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 18:50:00 -
[143] - Quote
CCPs assumption propagates misogyny whether they intended it or not.
Also at all the dudes screaming 'noo ur being sexist' , misandry isn't a real thing because for it to actually be real women would have to be in a position of privilege over men. As much as you whine and complain that they are today because of your fictional 'reverse sexism' , they are not and woman are still predominantly less privileged than men.
I think 99% of the commentors here would benefit massively from reading a feminism 101 |
Kult Altol
Republican Industries Epsilon Fleet
62
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 19:15:00 -
[144] - Quote
Wow, people whining about cigarette ashtrays in their CQ, and now people whining about high heels...
http://dagobah.net/flash/successful_troll_2.swf |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
517
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 19:47:00 -
[145] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Also, I'm way better at making sandwiches. Between your namesake on order / stick, and this sandwich making skill.... I am impressed.
I appreciate many sandwich styles. My recent favorites have been firehouse's meatball, subvay's tuna, and of course my deep dark secret... peanut butter on white bread. (Creamy style, J!F for the win)
What sandwich do you find to be most enjoyable? Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2295
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 19:55:00 -
[146] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:CCPs assumption propagates misogyny whether they intended it or not. No, it doesn't. Depicting women in high heels does NOTHING to propagate hate or discrimination. Just stop.
Isabel Midnight wrote:Also at all the dudes screaming 'noo ur being sexist' , misandry isn't a real thing because for it to actually be real women would have to be in a position of privilege over men. That's like saying black people can't be racist because they're a minority. I have a scar that demonstrates otherwise.
Isabel Midnight wrote:As much as you whine and complain that they are today because of your fictional 'reverse sexism' , they are not and woman are still predominantly less privileged than men.
I think 99% of the commentors here would benefit massively from reading a feminism 101 "Privilege" is another one of those words that is just tiring in discussions like these.
I've been accused of every kind of "privilege" there is. In truth, that's an empty word used to dismiss anything said by someone who fits into a certain category. You can cite "male privilege" and simply dismiss anything I say, while in the same breath claiming that it's impossible for a woman to be sexist. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2296
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 19:58:00 -
[147] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:What sandwich do you find to be most enjoyable?
Subway melt on flatbread with pepperjack cheese is quite awesome.
A current favorite of mine is a grilled cheese made with sourdough and mild cheddar.
I'm also somewhat addicted to bleu cheese at the moment and am trying to figure out good uses for it in sandwiches. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
517
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 20:12:00 -
[148] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote:What sandwich do you find to be most enjoyable? Subway melt on flatbread with pepperjack cheese is quite awesome. A current favorite of mine is a grilled cheese made with sourdough and mild cheddar. I'm also somewhat addicted to bleu cheese at the moment and am trying to figure out good uses for it in sandwiches. I don't normally use that cheese directly. However! Bleu cheese dressing can be used as a substitute for mayo and / or mustard for some sandwiches. Keeping in mind it can have a more salty aspect than mayo, it has a nice balance with other ingredients like bacon. (In my opinion)
I have been meaning to try the combination of a tuna sandwich using this bleu cheese dressing instead of mayo. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2296
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 21:05:00 -
[149] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:I'm also somewhat addicted to bleu cheese at the moment and am trying to figure out good uses for it in sandwiches. I don't normally use that cheese directly. However! Bleu cheese dressing can be used as a substitute for mayo and / or mustard for some sandwiches. Keeping in mind it can have a more salty aspect than mayo, it has a nice balance with other ingredients like bacon. (In my opinion) I have been meaning to try the combination of a tuna sandwich using this bleu cheese dressing instead of mayo. Bleu goes really well with beef (burgers and steaks) so I've been thinking about pairing it with roast beef. Also, it goes great with anything resembling buffalo sauce.
I've taken to snacking on the stuff with an ice-cold Dr. Pepper. The rest of the world will probably think me weird, but I find it tasty. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
24
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 23:19:00 -
[150] - Quote
Please don't derail this thread |
|
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2301
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 01:33:00 -
[151] - Quote
I put my misogyny on hold for a bit and made my wife an awesome turkey on rye.
Is that better? The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Mars Theran
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
262
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 02:47:00 -
[152] - Quote
Roime wrote:Did you know that high heels may improve the tone of a woman's pelvic floor, thus affecting female incontinence?
I understand they also cause back problems on par with lifting heavy loads all day, every day. ..or so I've been told by various reputable to near reputable scientific and medical references anyway.
High heels were designed by a man; they lift the buttocks to present a pretty posterior apparently. While doing so, they put pressure on the mid-to-lower back and cause the spine to curve inwards unnaturally in the lumbar region. Eventually, this causes deformation of the spine, but early on it has the effect of causing back pain resulting from the stress and muscle tension in that region.
I made most of that up, but it's probably fairly accurate if a little uneducated. Long story short, it causes problems. It's sort of like maintaining poor posture; only, in this case, I suppose it would be maintaining poor posterior.
Anyway, yeah, I understand why women might not appreciate the sentiment given the sole purpose is marketing/modeling to/for a very specific audience. Women really do look fine without them. Quite fine in some cases.
Bit of hedonism there. Bwahahaa.
..on my part or yours I wonder? Both maybe. I have deleted and cleared my signature 7 times and it still won't go away. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
70
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 03:12:00 -
[153] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:I put my misogyny on hold for a bit and made my wife an awesome turkey on rye.
Is that better? Can you make me a sandwich also? But no mayo i prefer mustard. |
Johan Civire
Dirty Curse inc.
90
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 04:08:00 -
[154] - Quote
I want dress less because thats what i do in real life to walking naked female and male ofcourse |
Hedonism-bot
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 07:12:00 -
[155] - Quote
I am just glad that flats are not the norm, or I would have to start a thread about how CCP is being misogynistic towards women for not allowing heels. Personally, I am unable to operate without heels. |
Juniorama
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 07:21:00 -
[156] - Quote
[quote=Nikk Narrel]my deep dark secret... peanut butter on white bread.quote]
We call that a choke sandwich, well... because... when you try to eat it to fast it makes you choke.
Not one of my favorite sandwiches, but I had a lot of in college is the wish sandwich. It is just two pieces of white bread. As you are eating it you say "Oooh, I wish there was something in this sandwich." |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2302
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 15:05:00 -
[157] - Quote
Mars Theran wrote:High heels were designed by a man; The origins of high heels are lost in history. They go back about as far as civilization.
Mars Theran wrote: they lift the buttocks to present a pretty posterior apparently. Previous speculation on the purpose of high heels includes things such as making it harder to walk gracefully, thus making women LESS attractive, thus less likely to be unfaithful. Completely the opposite intention...but of course it's all the fault of those bad oppressive men... ...who also wore high heels for centuries in much of Europe.
What strikes me about all of this is that there seems to be no history of women being forced to do many of the things they blame men for. In fact, a lot of these things probably started with a woman doing something for the purpose of attracting men and then the rest of the women following suit in order to remain competitive. Or maybe it was adopted by the aristocratic women so that they'd stand above the "common" people, and of course when the rich and powerful do something the rest of the populace will ultimately attempt to imitate it.
It's all a cosmetic arms race driven by women, NOT by domineering men. Although I must confess to enjoying the show.
The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
520
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 15:18:00 -
[158] - Quote
Frankly I am not seeing the misogyny here.
Both genders are equally represented to perceived ideals.
Do you blame a mirror for reflecting an image you present to it?
If not, then you may wish to reconsider your wrath towards what is accepted as a wholly superficial aspect of the game. It simply reflects what is popular in the society it was designed in.
If you do blame mirrors, well then... it says a lot about the person reflected in it, wouldn't you say? Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Charles Baker
Estrale Frontiers Project Wildfire
252
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 16:22:00 -
[159] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Every single boot or shoe in NEX or available through the character creation thing has a massive heel on it. It's a joke and insanely misogynistic to have not even considered this massive oversight. I hate wearing high heels in real life as they are painful and extremely awkward to walk in and mostly only for pleasing dumb ass men.
CCP art team needs to pull their head out their ass and introduce some non high heels for female characters to wear. I'm supposed to be a spaceship captain. I need actual practical shoes. Male character's get them.
You could also fix this by removing the 'gender' requirement on clothing but I guess that's another post.
STOP FORCING WOMEN TO WEAR HIGH HEELS IN VIDEO GAMES
For anyone who is unclear this isn't a joke post or a troll. I legitimately think a game that offers character customization that forces me to wear high heels in 2012 is disgusting.
LET ME WEAR THEM INSTEAD! |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
24
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 17:28:00 -
[160] - Quote
High heels are not an ideal and as bad as corsets or practices like feet binding |
|
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
520
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 17:48:00 -
[161] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:High heels are not an ideal and as bad as corsets or practices like feet binding This is a straw man argument. These three 'fashion' practices have no direct connection to each other beyond coincidence.
Both corsets and feet binding are extreme examples resulting often in degrees of self inflicted mutilation. It must also be noted that to the societies involved there was pressure to fit in by performing these acts. As human beings have a highly adaptable nature, often the women involved were oblivious to any sense of degradation. After all, everyone must bear a burden in their world, and if fashion practices such as these were the worst things in their lives, finding those who genuinely suffered far worse things was not a difficult task at all.
Now, if it could be shown that these women never had to actually endure any of these, they would have no true complaint. Imagine, if they simply allowed a painting of themselves to endure this "suffering" in their place?
The painting of Dorian Gray as a comely maid in high heels instead... oh wait, that IS what we have now.... Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2302
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 18:07:00 -
[162] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:High heels are not an ideal and as bad as corsets or practices like feet binding I won't agree that they're "as bad", but I certainly agree that they trade well-being for vanity. I don't think anyone has argued otherwise here.
My problem is that you're blaming men for the consensual fashion choices made by women. I get that you don't like high heels and would rather not see them in the game, but rather than pitching a fit about how evil men are, why don't you calmly suggest that CCP add the OPTION to wear other types of shoes in future incarna expansion? The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
The Lobsters
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 18:19:00 -
[163] - Quote
I too would like a high heal option for male toons.
Not that I like cross-dressing in RL. I just I find the thought of a 7 foot, bald, middle aged, one eyed Amarrian wearing lipstick, cheap perfume and diamant+¬ earrings, in a flame red lam+¬ cocktail dress and size 12 slingbacks rather unsettling. That man is the noblest creature may be inferred from the fact that no other creature has contested his claim. |
PinkKnife
Noir. Academy Noir. Mercenary Group
203
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 18:43:00 -
[164] - Quote
I think avatars need more variety on a whole in terms of apparel. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
521
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 21:41:00 -
[165] - Quote
The Lobsters wrote:I too would like a high heal option for male toons.
Not that I like cross-dressing in RL. I just I find the thought of a 7 foot, bald, middle aged, one eyed Amarrian wearing lipstick, cheap perfume and diamant+¬ earrings, in a flame red lam+¬ cocktail dress and size 12 slingbacks rather unsettling. I believe I speak for many, when I say that you would not be alone considering this image to be unsettling.... Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
78
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 21:47:00 -
[166] - Quote
The Lobsters wrote:I too would like a high heal option for male toons.
Not that I like cross-dressing in RL. I just I find the thought of a 7 foot, bald, middle aged, one eyed Amarrian wearing lipstick, cheap perfume and diamant+¬ earrings, in a flame red lam+¬ cocktail dress and size 12 slingbacks rather unsettling.
Oh now we have gotten to the heart of the issue!
You only want to troll with outrageous appearance of your char (and Ravens in pink livery with flowers on it are in this category too).
No thanks! That plagues almost every MMO on the market except Eve, outrageous characters, or costumes/equipment, furry midgets etc. Eve is one of the few MMOs with a serious take on the fantasy/sci-fi subject. |
The Lobsters
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.30 22:26:00 -
[167] - Quote
Nestara Aldent wrote:The Lobsters wrote:I too would like a high heal option for male toons.
Not that I like cross-dressing in RL. I just I find the thought of a 7 foot, bald, middle aged, one eyed Amarrian wearing lipstick, cheap perfume and diamant+¬ earrings, in a flame red lam+¬ cocktail dress and size 12 slingbacks rather unsettling. Oh now we have gotten to the heart of the issue! You only want to troll with outrageous appearance of your char (and Ravens in pink livery with flowers on it are in this category too). No thanks! That plagues almost every MMO on the market except Eve, outrageous characters, or costumes/equipment, furry midgets etc. Eve is one of the few MMOs with a serious take on the fantasy/sci-fi subject.
TROLL??? How dare you Sir/Madam.
As it happens I rather enjoyed making a toon that is an old, ugly and battered with a warped sense of self. Rather like the fictional characters I named him after. Crossdressing would add a touch of verisimilitude.
Call me an Amarr Roleplayer if you want, but not a troll. That man is the noblest creature may be inferred from the fact that no other creature has contested his claim. |
Mechael
Ouroboros Executor Collective
232
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 03:07:00 -
[168] - Quote
High heels are just gross. Why in the hell would anyone ever wear them except on the off chance that they want to be hugely inconvenienced? Whenever I see people wearing them I can't help but think to myself, "Wow, you're dumb." It's kind of like girls who wear short skirts on freezing cold days and then complain about the cold. I'm not one for violence, but god damn if some people don't need to be slapped. I realize it has to do with some strange notion of "sex appeal," but stupidity is not sexy.
Long story short, I too found it disappointing that all the females in this game were forced into high heels. Whether or not you win the game matters not. -áIt's if you bought it. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
25
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 14:44:00 -
[169] - Quote
bump |
Faith Audene
EVE University Ivy League
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 14:51:00 -
[170] - Quote
In a scifi world where capsulers are either in their capsules or in the captains quarters, but never physically meeting another person, why on earth would somebody wear high heels?
or any shoes?
or any clothes at all? |
|
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2307
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 14:56:00 -
[171] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:bump Why? Do you think it will serve any purpose to call further attention to this thread? You're asking for the female model to be modified and all its footwear be redesigned. That's a significant amount of artwork for a feature that is currently essentially single player. Regardless of how offensive a few players find it, it's a tremendous waste of time when you consider they might spend it working on in-space content where actual gameplay happens.
Lose the chip on your shoulder and raise this issue as a lack of options when CCP starts talking about expanding walk in station. You'll have a chance at actually getting results doing it that. way. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
525
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 15:08:00 -
[172] - Quote
Quite honestly, I find the notion that we all look like 21st century humans to be rather disturbing.
Are we so egocentric that we really believe we are perfect?
Seriously, we can change bodies on a daily basis, yet we apparently limit ourselves to this narrow range of appearances.
Forget shoes.... why can't I have blue skin, or cat ears? Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
25
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 16:02:00 -
[173] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Isabel Midnight wrote:bump Why? Do you think it will serve any purpose to call further attention to this thread? You're asking for the female model to be modified and all its footwear be redesigned. That's a significant amount of artwork for a feature that is currently essentially single player. Regardless of how offensive a few players find it, it's a tremendous waste of time when you consider they might spend it working on in-space content where actual gameplay happens. Lose the chip on your shoulder and raise this issue as a lack of options when CCP starts talking about expanding walk in station. You'll have a chance at actually getting results doing it that. way.
gonna keep bumping till it's fixed |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2307
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 17:31:00 -
[174] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:gonna keep bumping till it's fixed I highly doubt you have the resolve to bump this for the length of time it will take for CCP to make what amounts to a minor cosmetic change that's only apparent if you're looking for it. They have a game to balance and ships to make pretty. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
861
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 20:26:00 -
[175] - Quote
Why is this thread still alive? This is a detail issue. Hell... it's not even a real "issue"... more of a "personal preference" that can be easily gotten around by never using the Captain's Quarters. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
25
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 21:47:00 -
[176] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:edit: Quote:I think 99% of the commentors here would benefit massively from reading a feminism 101 Feminism "died" when women admitted that they enjoyed sex too and did equally outrageous things to get laid.
hahahaha look how amazingly stupid you are |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
527
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 22:05:00 -
[177] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:edit: Quote:I think 99% of the commentors here would benefit massively from reading a feminism 101 Feminism "died" when women admitted that they enjoyed sex too and did equally outrageous things to get laid. hahahaha look how amazingly stupid you are I think your logic is being challenged.
This suggests either:
A> Not all women enjoy sex, and for the OP this means feminism is not dead.
B> Enjoying sex and feminism go well together. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
27
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 01:11:00 -
[178] - Quote
Enjoying sex and feminism go very well together. Saying feminism is dead because women enjoy sex is just bizzare. |
Marelda Ambramotte
The Sigma Society Nobilium Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 01:20:00 -
[179] - Quote
I think that science fiction clothes should be added to the clothing options. All the DUST 514 characters will have like armor and helmets and stuff, why cannot the players of New Eden? Makes sense that we get the option right?
Stuff like gas masks, jumpsuits, and armor would be awesome in my opinion.
|
Mars Theran
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
264
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 04:09:00 -
[180] - Quote
Somebody is a little over sensitive I think. Really surprised this made 8 pages, and I'm seeing a lot of Mysoginistic and transphopia statements here.
Really, when I see a lot of that kind of thing, I generally think one of two things: Either the heavily protesting injured party, (really?), is a phony troll, (meaning you're really a guy), or they're completely..
To put it bluntly, in the real world this sort of thing is about attention. Special attention. It's about one group or other getting special benefits nobody else is entitled to so they can feel special.
Maybe it used to be different, and there was a time and place for Womens liberation, anti-slavery sentiment, and all the rest, but that time is mostly past in most areas of the so called civilized world.
In other words, it's just a doll; it can't suffer indignity because it doesn't think or feel. The only impression of offense is from the perspective of a oversensitive person who is offended by nothing more than the artisitic choice of another with regard to that doll.
Do you really feel that it is appropriate to be offended by theatre dress? That's what it is you know, assuming you're not a guy. I have deleted and cleared my signature 7 times and it still won't go away. |
|
Mars Theran
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
264
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 04:48:00 -
[181] - Quote
p.s. have you noticed we all look a bit like a meeting of various different biker gangs? I have deleted and cleared my signature 7 times and it still won't go away. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2317
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 22:33:00 -
[182] - Quote
Mars Theran wrote:p.s. have you noticed we all look a bit like a meeting of various different biker gangs? I feel the need to dispute this observation. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Mars Theran
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
266
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 06:28:00 -
[183] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Mars Theran wrote:p.s. have you noticed we all look a bit like a meeting of various different biker gangs? I feel the need to dispute this observation.
I thought of that when I looked at your jacket too, then I realized there must be some biker gang somewhere wearing something like that. I have deleted and cleared my signature 7 times and it still won't go away. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 16:42:00 -
[184] - Quote
bump |
Lutaria Tichim
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 17:54:00 -
[185] - Quote
Actually, I was noticing that not all the shoes are high heels. There is a sort of combat boot, and there are runners. Maybe not available to all variations of every faction, but they are there. Got the combats myself; little extra cushioning in the heel, but otherwise good. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 00:26:00 -
[186] - Quote
Even the combat boots have huge heels on them |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1266
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 00:55:00 -
[187] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Even the combat boots have huge heels on them Not that huge. I think one of my sandals has a higher heel... |
Aethelric Brandt
The Inheritors F.E.R.A.L
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 02:21:00 -
[188] - Quote
Totally on-board with the OP's suggestion. Gender requirements should be removed from clothing entirely. Barring that, however, female characters should have non-sexualized and/or practical options available.
This change would take virtually no effort and would solve a rather serious issue. Given that this game is produced in Iceland, one of (if not) the most gender-equitable nations on the planet, it's rather absurd to see female characters forced into heels. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 18:57:00 -
[189] - Quote
bump |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2321
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 19:43:00 -
[190] - Quote
Aethelric Brandt wrote:This change would take virtually no effort
You're so very wrong about that. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
|
Jafit
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
344
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 20:14:00 -
[191] - Quote
I'm outraged by the fact that the character customization screen won't let you finish without putting on a pair of pants. It's a joke and insanely unrealistic to have not even considered this massive oversight. I hate wearing pants in real life as they are uncomfortable and unnecessary and mostly only for pleasing dumb ass police officers with their stupid 'laws'. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 13:18:00 -
[192] - Quote
bump |
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
6
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 14:19:00 -
[193] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:bump
Hey! How dare you bump into me!
You're a racist. You hate me and I know that because you bumped me. That makes you a racist and anything you say to the contrary just strengthens my assertion that you are, indeed racist.
On the subject of shoes, though, I think all women should be made to wear high heals at all times. With so many ugly women that dress like men out there we need something to allow us men to avoid the embarrasement of misidentifying women as men. If all women wore high heals and all men didn't (as in EvE) it would all be made much simpler. So really, CCP have merely solved a problem thats inherent in western society anyway.
+1 to CCP for their sensible approach to making it easy to identify the sexes. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
530
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 14:34:00 -
[194] - Quote
Elshar Khandar wrote:Isabel Midnight wrote:bump Hey! How dare you bump into me! You're a racist. You hate me and I know that because you bumped me. That makes you a racist and anything you say to the contrary just strengthens my assertion that you are, indeed racist. On the subject of shoes, though, I think all women should be made to wear high heals at all times. With so many ugly women that dress like men out there we need something to allow us men to avoid the embarrasement of misidentifying women as men. If all women wore high heals and all men didn't (as in EvE) it would all be made much simpler. So really, CCP have merely solved a problem thats inherent in western society anyway. +1 to CCP for their sensible approach to making it easy to identify the sexes. I can't say I noticed this aspect of EVE as you described it.
Good catch on noticing this. I am horrified to think I could be ogling a guy by mistake.
And here I was admiring her for her bumps till now... dear dear.... Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
206
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 14:40:00 -
[195] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:Isabel Midnight wrote:Even the combat boots have huge heels on them Not that huge. I think one of my sandals has a higher heel...
haha! owned Isabel Midnight! now politely f**k off |
Astroniomix
Thorn Project Black Thorne Alliance
175
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 16:09:00 -
[196] - Quote
Aethelric Brandt wrote:This change would take virtually no effort How much is "virtualy no effort"? |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
127
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 16:11:00 -
[197] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:
CCP art team needs to pull their head out their ass and introduce some non high heels for female characters to wear. I'm supposed to be a spaceship captain. I need actual practical shoes. Male character's get them..
Why do spaceship captains need practical shoes when they spend thier whole time on ship suspended naked in a pod of amniotic fluid? Clothes are only for socialising and displaying wealth. Sure it is stupid female pod pilots in eve must wear high heels but practicality in work as a pod pilot has little to do with it.
|
Arduemont
Malevolent Intentions Ineluctable.
264
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 17:09:00 -
[198] - Quote
I would like to point out that the female character model is made with the feet in the high-heel position. What your proposing would take a lot of work especially considering there are already female shoes in the character customization that someone has obviously put effort into making them look like they're not high heeled.
There may not be any non-high heeled shoes on the nexus, but if you don't like the options in there then don't buy anything. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
705
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 17:10:00 -
[199] - Quote
Bumping too, for no reason but well... brb |
Paikis
Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking
150
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 18:13:00 -
[200] - Quote
If this had been put forward as a simple request for more options I'd have no issue with it. But you had to make it a political statement, so here's a rubix cube... |
|
GTN
BALKAN EXPRESS
23
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 18:18:00 -
[201] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:I hate wearing high heels in real life as they are painful and extremely awkward to walk in and mostly only for pleasing dumb ass men.
I'd put it this way: high technology combined with highly engineered high heels made them fun to wear. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 03:11:00 -
[202] - Quote
bump |
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
7
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 06:08:00 -
[203] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:bump
So you've nothing more to say on the subject other than "bump".
And still you have almost no support for your demands.
I bet you were the sort of person who as a child, when told she couldn't have something, screamed and screamed and screamed until daddy gave it to you. And from your obvious misandry I'd say your daddy did give it to you. |
L Salander
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
24
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 11:02:00 -
[204] - Quote
There's a lot of misogynists in this thread, oh my. |
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
9
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 11:41:00 -
[205] - Quote
Misogyny is the hatred of women or girls. That means ALL women or girls. It DOES NOT mean hating one women or one girl because they're a biggoted hate monger demanding ridiculously pointless things (considering the lack of any avatar interaction) simply because she considers herself to be marginalised and therefore have more rights than anyone else.
I and most of the other supposed misogynists here don't hate women or girls. In fact, most of us actively love them as often as we possibly can.
It's a bit like an argument between a black guy and a white guy. If one of them loses his temper and hits the other is he a racist? Well, it entirely depends on whether he's attacked the other chap because of the colour of his skin (or nationality etc.) or because of something completely different. So, the black guy slept with the white guy's sister, took photos and posted them on the internet. The white guy hits the black guy. Is it racist or is it pretty much justified?
Isabel Midnight has shouted demands which either aren't backed up by anyone else (the few positives being alts) or are backed up by such a tiny portion of the forum goers that the validity of the demands should be and have been brought into question.
Isabel Midnight has accused most, if not all, of the people who've replied negatively to her proposal, whether agressively or not, with blanket "You're all misogynists" comments which are as valid as the black guy in my example claiming the white guy is a racist. Her arguments aren't agreed with by most of the people who read and post on this forum. She persists in trying to enforce her demands, not with calm rationality but with baseless accusations casting the natures and ethics of ALL her ctitics into question whilst claiming to be the injured party.
She is not the injured party. She brought a point which is not widely seen as important by the playerbase to the attention of the forum in the form of a demand and then accused any and all neighsayers of being misogynists and worse.
&TLDR Isabel Midnight is a bigot who likes accusing others of her own flaw. |
L Salander
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
24
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 12:23:00 -
[206] - Quote
Elshar Khandar wrote:Misogyny is the hatred of women or girls. That means ALL women or girls. It DOES NOT mean hating one women or one girl because they're a biggoted hate monger demanding ridiculously pointless things (considering the lack of any avatar interaction) simply because she considers herself to be marginalised and therefore have more rights than anyone else.
I and most of the other supposed misogynists here don't hate women or girls. In fact, most of us actively love them as often as we possibly can.
It's a bit like an argument between a black guy and a white guy. If one of them loses his temper and hits the other is he a racist? Well, it entirely depends on whether he's attacked the other chap because of the colour of his skin (or nationality etc.) or because of something completely different. So, the black guy slept with the white guy's sister, took photos and posted them on the internet. The white guy hits the black guy. Is it racist or is it pretty much justified?
Isabel Midnight has shouted demands which either aren't backed up by anyone else (the few positives being alts) or are backed up by such a tiny portion of the forum goers that the validity of the demands should be and have been brought into question.
Isabel Midnight has accused most, if not all, of the people who've replied negatively to her proposal, whether agressively or not, with blanket "You're all misogynists" comments which are as valid as the black guy in my example claiming the white guy is a racist. Her arguments aren't agreed with by most of the people who read and post on this forum. She persists in trying to enforce her demands, not with calm rationality but with baseless accusations casting the natures and ethics of ALL her ctitics into question whilst claiming to be the injured party.
She is not the injured party. She brought a point which is not widely seen as important by the playerbase to the attention of the forum in the form of a demand and then accused any and all neighsayers of being misogynists and worse.
&TLDR Isabel Midnight is a bigot who likes accusing others of her own flaw.
Except what they're "demanding" isn't ridiculous or pointless at all, the fact that you think forcing all female characters to dress a certain way is ok is very misogynistic. |
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
9
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 12:57:00 -
[207] - Quote
L Salander wrote: Except what they're "demanding" isn't ridiculous or pointless at all, forcing all female characters to dress a certain way is very misogynistic. The fact that the vast majority of players (aka men) are ok with it doesn't mean it's ok. Argumentum ad populum doesn't stand, mate.
Please acquaint yourself with the definition of misogyny.
IF there was any misogyny involved in women in the game having to wear high heals it would mean that CCP intentionally made it that way specifically because they hate women.
Anyone with half a brain can tell that simply isn't the case.
Therefore, the only logical assumption that can be made is that the reason women all wear high heals is because of a mix of pragmatic design decisions, cost/benefit analysis (technical and/or financial) and simplification of complicated interaction mechanics. There may be others but I think that covers the most obvious.
Argumentum ad populum does actually stand. Someone who believes themselves to be in the minority and/or marginalised doesn't get more than one vote to make up for it in any country, as far as I can tell.
People really need to get to grips with a bit of common sense. When and only when we have avatar interactions does this demand transition from pointless to having some (albeit very little) merit. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
531
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 13:25:00 -
[208] - Quote
Elshar's arguments possess the all too rare quality of logic.
Despite her thought provoking bumps, I fear Isabel's arguments are here beaten. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2332
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 15:29:00 -
[209] - Quote
L Salander wrote:forcing all female characters to dress a certain way is very misogynistic.
No, it's not. I've already made a post where I clearly state several other possible reasons for it, including market research among female players. It's entirely possible that the feedback they got from women favored high heels, and technical limitations only allowed for one type of shoe.
You accuse people of acting on hate while never considering they might have other motives. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2332
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 15:31:00 -
[210] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Isabel's arguments So far, I don't think she's presented any. Just baseless accusations of hate, intermixed with some hypocritical hate of her own. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
|
Ellariona
The Elysian Agoge Elysian Empire
14
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 16:05:00 -
[211] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Tor Gungnir wrote:Isabel Midnight wrote:The female thin model looks dangerously underweight but that's probably another discussion. Why wouldn't a "thin" model look underweight? Just as a "fat" model would look overweight, it makes sense. The fat model does not actually look overweight in any way and the thin one is thin to the point of danger.
So basically, you're jealous of the skinny, heel-wearing avatars? :s |
Ellariona
The Elysian Agoge Elysian Empire
14
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 16:25:00 -
[212] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Every single boot or shoe in NEX or available through the character creation thing has a massive heel on it. It's a joke and insanely misogynistic to have not even considered this massive oversight. I hate wearing high heels in real life as they are painful and extremely awkward to walk in and mostly only for pleasing dumb ass men.
CCP art team needs to pull their head out their ass and introduce some non high heels for female characters to wear. I'm supposed to be a spaceship captain. I need actual practical shoes. Male character's get them.
You could also fix this by removing the 'gender' requirement on clothing but I guess that's another post.
STOP FORCING WOMEN TO WEAR HIGH HEELS IN VIDEO GAMES
For anyone who is unclear this isn't a joke post or a troll. I legitimately think a game that offers character customization that forces me to wear high heels in 2012 is disgusting.
The fact that OP thinks that high heels are linked to misogyny baffles me. I treat women like objects in real life, but I really dislike heels.
No, just kidding. Here comes my real reply:
If you think a heel (although, I must agree IRL they are mostly being defined as either "tough bi-atch" or "sl-ut" type shoes) is a symbol for misogyny, then I could say the same about all the "tough guy" clothing being misandrous. If you hate wearing them in real life because you either can't walk in them or are overweight, leave your problems at the door. Do you think all of us men wear either tight leather-looking pants or baggy pants? Do you think all of us men are that skinny or muscular? Do you think WE like to see the contrast between RL and our eve avatars? No, we don't. And I don't think most of us care, even. Fact is, this is EVE. Not to be confused with reality. In New Eden, especially for Gallente women I would think, for all you know high heel shoes are a symbol of stature, divinity and freedom. And about the weight issue, I assume to be a capsuleer (wether female or not), you need to have a certain limit in weight, as more fat would mean more tissue moving around by the g-forces affecting you.
I say -1 to this superfeminist (I have nothing against equal gender rights, but I do have a problem with crybabies), overly subjective and pointless thread. |
Paikis
Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking
151
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 16:37:00 -
[213] - Quote
mi-+sog-+y-+nist GÇé [mih-soj-uh-nist, mahyGÇÉ] noun a person who hates, dislikes, mistrusts, or mistreats women
I guess I'm a misogynist then, because I don't trust them as far as I can kick them. Up hill and against the wind. Irony of ironies, feminism has done more to create a generation of ACTUAL misogynists than anything else possibly could. To top it off, women are the most unhappy they've ever been (as a group) and are painted as perpetual victims unable to do anything for themselves. Feminists do an absolutely MARVELOUS job of treating women as children. Feminism is misogynistic?
Having said that, why are we having a political discussion in my internet spaceships forum!? |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
533
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 16:42:00 -
[214] - Quote
Paikis wrote:mi-+sog-+y-+nist GÇé [mih-soj-uh-nist, mahyGÇÉ] noun a person who hates, dislikes, mistrusts, or mistreats women
I guess I'm a misogynist then, because I don't trust them as far as I can kick them. Up hill and against the wind. Irony of ironies, feminism has done more to create a generation of ACTUAL misogynists than anything else possibly could. To top it off, women are the most unhappy they've ever been (as a group) and are painted as perpetual victims unable to do anything for themselves. Feminists do an absolutely MARVELOUS job of treating women as children. Feminism is misogynistic?
Having said that, why are we having a political discussion in my internet spaceships forum!? I noticed this strange event as well...
Thank goodness I am not the only one baffled by this contrast with appropriate topic content.
Now, If you wanted shoes that launched missiles, THAT I could get behind you with.
Especially if they are high heels. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2335
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 18:23:00 -
[215] - Quote
Uhh...dudes? Characterizing the feminist movement as bad for women just feeds their delusions.
I'm just waiting for the OP to make a thread about being forced to wear a bra. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
14
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 18:42:00 -
[216] - Quote
Paikis wrote: Having said that, why are we having a political discussion in my internet spaceships forum!?
I think it's because the OP started it and needed to have some realities explaining to her.
Mind you, you and Nik both make the fair point, albeit obliquely, that this is a forum for features and ideas for the online multi-player game EvE. I don't believe this includes delusional whining on the scale seen in this thread.
Just my twopence worth, mind. I really want to make it clear at this point that this is merely my opinion and not "truth" in any sense of the word.
@Nik - Hell yeah! I can so get behind high heal boots with missile launchers built in. I might have to start another thread.....
mu-hahahaha! |
GTN
BALKAN EXPRESS
23
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 09:22:00 -
[217] - Quote
What you guys fail to understand is that CCP will give this woman what she wants. Because the world is heading in a female-dominant direction, and CCP isn't an exception to this. This makes me both angry and happy at the same time |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 12:27:00 -
[218] - Quote
At the moment I don't really need to do anything to argue against you because you are making your own argument. There are some really scummy people coming forth to defend this stuff.
Also FYI , intent has nothing to do with whether it is misogynistic or not. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
537
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 16:15:00 -
[219] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Also FYI , intent has nothing to do with whether it is misogynistic or not. Ah, so you admit the possibility that no intent to demean or marginalize women has taken place.
Without the intent to cause harm, the perception of such harm could be defined as being limited to only those choosing to see it.
This raises the question, why do you choose to see harm?
Will winning this battle fill some hole in your heart? I do hope for you to find inner peace, but to do so upon changes to our game is unfair to those of us simply wanting to play with space ships.
Perhaps you should stop trying to walk all over us with your shoes. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1289
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 17:04:00 -
[220] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:At the moment I don't really need to do anything to argue against you because you are making your own argument. There are some really scummy people coming forth to defend this stuff.
Also FYI , intent has nothing to do with whether it is misogynistic or not. Yes it does. Intent is the entire definition of the term.
Misogyny is an active state of mind. It requires the intended hatred, otherwise it is not misogynistic. You can't accidentally hate women.
Just like racism must be intentional, so must sexism.
I still would like some non heeled shoes, just for some variety. But, you're taking it too far. There is nothing wrong about how it is now... just lacking variety. |
|
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 17:29:00 -
[221] - Quote
Intent is not part of the term. People have even posted wikipedia definitions and such in here and intent has never been mentioned.
If you step on my foot it hurts me regardless of your intent. If someone stood on your foot and you started wailing about how you didn't mean to step on it so how dare they feel pain.... |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1289
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 20:21:00 -
[222] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Intent is not part of the term. People have even posted wikipedia definitions and such in here and intent has never been mentioned.
If you step on my foot it hurts me regardless of your intent. If someone stood on your foot and you started wailing about how you didn't mean to step on it so how dare they feel pain.... Hatred is an active and intentional thing.
Misogyny cannot be done without intending to. Just like racism cannot be unintentional, as it requires the person to have a hatred/dislike of the other race. |
Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
132
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 21:59:00 -
[223] - Quote
Isabel wrote: dumb ass men.
Stopped reading here.
Obviously don't respect men, so why should the game be changed to suite your tastes?
You are also not a spaceship captain. You are a capsuleer. Get ready for this: Your character is naked whenever they are piloting a ship.
My advice is HTFU. Rabble Rabble!! Rifterlings is currently recruiting frigate and cruiser pilots for LowSec/NullSec small gang PvP and FW. Newbies and veterans alike are welcome.
|
Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
132
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 22:03:00 -
[224] - Quote
In our day and age you can be accused of "misogyny" for stating that men should have equal rights when it comes to family planning. Rabble Rabble!! Rifterlings is currently recruiting frigate and cruiser pilots for LowSec/NullSec small gang PvP and FW. Newbies and veterans alike are welcome.
|
Ellariona
The Elysian Agoge Elysian Empire
19
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 15:28:00 -
[225] - Quote
I have long ago joined the hominist movement because of the inbalance that has been brought up by feminism. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 15:39:00 -
[226] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:In our day and age you can be accused of "misogyny" for stating that men should have equal rights when it comes to family planning.
Gonna quote this for posterity cos goddamn. |
Lili Lu
401
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 15:47:00 -
[227] - Quote
Vive la difference.
But high heels are not part of that evolution. CCP, please get rid of them.
And how about long dresses? And bring back many of the hair styles and clothing from the old character portrait generator you forgot to import with Incarna. Like male Intaki hair. Transluscent and lace veils. Molded ornamental collars (like I used to have ) . . . |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1292
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 19:20:00 -
[228] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote:Vive la difference. ... And how about long dresses? And bring back many of the hair styles and clothing from the old character portrait generator you forgot to import with Incarna. Like male Intaki hair. Transluscent and lace veils. Molded ornamental collars (like I used to have ) . . . I'm in full agreement with this. We lost a lot of the culture of EVE with the much more reserved styles with Incarna. |
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
327
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 20:07:00 -
[229] - Quote
To the OP:
I salute you for a great troll thread.
However I have few suggestions on how you can improve:
1. Don't overplay, the men hating combat boot wearing lesbian. It is rather easy to see through your role.
2. Posting as a member of an alliance full of WiS haters about a rather small feature of said WiS is also a dead giveaway of your intentions. Make an alt character and place it in a small corp or alliance.
3. If you would be serious about the issue you would post a well constructed post in the feature and idea forum, not attacking other EVE players, none of the persons in GD is involved in any decision involving graphics and gameplay of EVE.
4. Besides the high heels here are rather tame ones. If you have seen [insert generic asia MMO] girls with impossible huge boobs, skimpy armor etc, then a feminist might have reason to complain.
5. There is no fifth!
....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 21:15:00 -
[230] - Quote
It's come to my attention that the Reddit website has picked up on this thread of mine. I take this as a good sign because if a website that is rated as a bastion of misogyny (http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2012/spring/misogyny-the-sites) gets upset about this .. |
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Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
137
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 22:25:00 -
[231] - Quote
The word "misogyny" has been so over-used as a shaming tactic that it has essentially lost all of it's meaning. The only place it holds any value as a word anymore is within feminist echo-chambers.
Further reading.
Also: LOL @ quoting anything from the SPLC. Rabble Rabble!! Rifterlings is currently recruiting frigate and cruiser pilots for LowSec/NullSec small gang PvP and FW. Newbies and veterans alike are welcome.
|
Sal Volatile
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 23:50:00 -
[232] - Quote
As a man, I fully support the OP. Also, people whose ideas about misogyny are informed by the men's rights movement are profoundly ignorant and blind to their own privilege. Misogyny is not meaningless, it's very real, it often exists by inertia or is deeply embedded in culture and is deeply internalized, and pointing it out does not make anyone a "man hater."
Of course, videogame culture is highly reactionary, very young, and very uneducated, so this discussion will probably not be terribly productive.
|
Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
137
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 01:57:00 -
[233] - Quote
Sal Volatile wrote:As a man, I fully support the OP. Also, people whose ideas about misogyny are informed by the men's rights movement are profoundly ignorant and blind to their own privilege. Misogyny is not meaningless, it's very real, it often exists by inertia or is deeply embedded in culture and is deeply internalized, and pointing it out does not make anyone a "man hater."
There is no such thing as male privilege. Unless you're talking about...
70-80% of the victims of violent crime are............ men. Most **** victims are.......... men. Most military casualties are.......... men. Most people killed on the job are........ men. The people working the tough and dangerous jobs are...... men. Perpetrators of domestic violence are equally likely to be male or female, yet domestic abusers are only portrayed as......... men. As much as 40% of child molesters are female, yet child molesters are only portrayed as......... men. "Primary Aggressor" laws mean that even if the perpetrator is female, the people arrested for domestic disputes are.............. men.
INB4 B-b-b-b-b-but CEO's.
Sal Volatile wrote:Of course, videogame culture is highly reactionary, very young, and very uneducated, so this discussion will probably not be terribly productive.
The whole "if you don't agree with me you're stupid" line leads me to believe you're a troll.
Rabble Rabble!! Rifterlings is currently recruiting frigate and cruiser pilots for LowSec/NullSec small gang PvP and FW. Newbies and veterans alike are welcome.
|
Vertinox
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 01:58:00 -
[234] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:A constructive reply: The change you want probably won't happen soon.
The problem is that realistic collision detection is exponentially complex, with the exponent roughly corresponding to the number of different heights that the engine has to take into account. This is why, at present, all capsuleers are the exact same height, about 5'8"--men in flats, women in heels. Give women the option to drop to 5'5" or so in flats, and you've just made it harder. Making flats the default shoe for women is even more work, because all the models are designed to be 5'8" in heels. CCP would have to find some way to add a few inches of height to every female toon without making any of them look absurd. Not to mention that they'd have to have two default female poses, since heels change the way that you stand and walk.
I support the feature. Just be aware that implementing it has complications, and CCP will have to engineer around them. It's not as simple as adding flats to the character customization options.
Or they could... You know... Maybe make players with different sizes with a height slider bar like some many other 3rd rate MMOs do. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1295
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 03:07:00 -
[235] - Quote
Vertinox wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:A constructive reply: The change you want probably won't happen soon.
The problem is that realistic collision detection is exponentially complex, with the exponent roughly corresponding to the number of different heights that the engine has to take into account. This is why, at present, all capsuleers are the exact same height, about 5'8"--men in flats, women in heels. Give women the option to drop to 5'5" or so in flats, and you've just made it harder. Making flats the default shoe for women is even more work, because all the models are designed to be 5'8" in heels. CCP would have to find some way to add a few inches of height to every female toon without making any of them look absurd. Not to mention that they'd have to have two default female poses, since heels change the way that you stand and walk.
I support the feature. Just be aware that implementing it has complications, and CCP will have to engineer around them. It's not as simple as adding flats to the character customization options. Or they could... You know... Maybe make players with different sizes with a height slider bar like some many other 3rd rate MMOs do. Not possible yet with the animation engine (or something like that). |
Nariya Kentaya
Tartarus Ventures Surely You're Joking
211
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 03:12:00 -
[236] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Every single boot or shoe in NEX or available through the character creation thing has a massive heel on it. It's a joke and insanely misogynistic to have not even considered this massive oversight. I hate wearing high heels in real life as they are painful and extremely awkward to walk in and mostly only for pleasing dumb ass men.
CCP art team needs to pull their head out their ass and introduce some non high heels for female characters to wear. I'm supposed to be a spaceship captain. I need actual practical shoes. Male character's get them.
You could also fix this by removing the 'gender' requirement on clothing but I guess that's another post.
STOP FORCING WOMEN TO WEAR HIGH HEELS IN VIDEO GAMES
For anyone who is unclear this isn't a joke post or a troll. I legitimately think a game that offers character customization that forces me to wear high heels in 2012 is disgusting. Honestly i actually think heels SHOULD be in the game, but only as a very small set of shoes amongst myriad of choices, as everyone has their own personal tastes.
but (as a guy) i HATE heels, they look horrible, are honestly quite pointless, and just frankly are not very logical as shoes. i dont know, maybe i prefer a more utilitarian look, but i was SO GLAD when i found out my GF preffered boots and jeans instead of heels and skirts. |
Lady Hanguko
Suicide Lemmings
1
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 06:43:00 -
[237] - Quote
Isabel Midnight, u sure are in the right place for socio-political bullshit. Yep, it only makes since, since your a congress women, and this is obviously not eve online, but in fact US Congress..... Look kid, some1 gonna have to tell u eventually... sorry it has to be me... u see, this is a video entertainment product, a game. Yeah, i know u don't believe it, but i swear its so. You can look it up on the Wikipedia, if you don't believe me.
PS: Isabel, unless you be some1 i know in RL, i personally cant care less if u are a women, a man or an alien. I don't really care about your political and social views. That why i play this game, cause i don't have to care about none of it. I care if i can kill you, Isabel, or if you can kill me, and if i need to come up with something better. I care about this next ship im gonna buy, to kill you, or the ship you gonna buy to kill me. The very last thing i care about then i see a potential target, after its fitting, cargo, support if any, tactics... is gonna be that shoes you wear. Somehow i think im not one of the kind. |
Lady Hanguko
Suicide Lemmings
1
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 07:06:00 -
[238] - Quote
Haha, but it is an idea, gotta give it to u. The very next1 time im gonna engage, 1st thing im gonna check is shoes... i donno maybe u on to something imao..... |
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
22
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 09:32:00 -
[239] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Intent is not part of the term. People have even posted wikipedia definitions and such in here and intent has never been mentioned.
If you step on my foot it hurts me regardless of your intent. If someone stood on your foot and you started wailing about how you didn't mean to step on it so how dare they feel pain....
Unfortunately your analogy doesn't work.
If I stepped on your foot intentionally because I hate women in general, not because it was an accident or because I've developed a deep seated hatred of you personally due to your behaviour and biggotry then it would be classed as misogyny.
If I stepped on your foot because it was an accident, whether it hurt or not it would still be an accident and not have anything to do with misogyny.
If I stepped on your foot intentionally to hurt you because I'd developed a deep seated hatred or dislike of you personally because of your behaviour, biggotry and opinions it would still not be misogyny, it would be because I dislike or hate you, not all women.
Therefore, intent does indeed matter. In fact, it's the defining factor as to whether the action is misogynistic or not.
As I've expressed before, please acquaint yourself with an accurate definition of misogyny if you wish to continue using the word otherwise you'll merely be compounding the general perception that you're not very bright. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
51
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 12:22:00 -
[240] - Quote
It's hilarious went dudes post about how 'oppressed' they are in these modern times. |
|
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
22
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 12:43:00 -
[241] - Quote
@ Isabel Midnight
So you're ignoring the fact that every post you've made regarding misogyny is factually incorrect, then?
It's interesting to see you ranting about how marginalised you are whilst completely ignoring any explanations of why you're wrong.
One might make the assumption that you know you're wrong and you're merely trolling.
For the time being I'll give you the benefit of the doubt but you're not helping your cause by ignoring people who are trying to actually help your understanding regarding what you're trying to claim. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
51
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 12:44:00 -
[242] - Quote
Go back to /r/MRA |
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
22
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 12:45:00 -
[243] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Go back to /r/MRA
Go back to what now?
EDIT - I've googled what you just said and there are way too many things that you clearly don't mean. Have you devolved to meaningless insults or did you actually have a real meaning to that instruction? |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
539
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 13:27:00 -
[244] - Quote
I believe I have sorted this one.
This is a misogynistic man posting as a woman, and is attempting to demean and marginalize women by creating an example of deranged interests put forth by a woman.
By acting really foolish, they hope all women will seem to be more foolish as a result.
It is a rather clever spin on the dumb blonde stereotype, where women are associated with needy desires due to the blonde acting as a representative of their gender as a whole.
Well played. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2346
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 13:45:00 -
[245] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:intent has nothing to do with whether it is misogynistic or not. I was walking along one day and there was this woman going the other way and I accidentally hated her for a second. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
24
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 13:49:00 -
[246] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote: Interesting suggestion
You make an interesting point and I would concur. Things simply don't add up if one was to take her at face value.
So either:
a) She is actually a mentally deficient woman or b) She's a man trying to demean women
Considering he/she has shown the capacity for logical debate and continues to use the word misogyny incorrectly even though he/she has had it explained it seems unlikely that it really is a woman. So yes, your suggestion seems to fit the facts best.
Congrats for uncovering this now obvious misogynist. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2347
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 14:01:00 -
[247] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:It's hilarious went dudes post about how 'oppressed' they are in these modern times.
How dare we point out when we're unfairly represented or mistreated! Blah blah misogyny blah blah privilege blah blah blah.
At first I thought you were a very clever troll. Then you kept going and I thought you were serious. Now you're down to not even attempting to have a conversation and simply posting one-line idiocy to keep people going and I'm back to thinking troll, only much less clever. You've gotten lazy. You might spice up future posts by talking about the chauvinistic patriarchy. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
51
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 14:06:00 -
[248] - Quote
Mens are the REAL victims here! |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
52
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 14:08:00 -
[249] - Quote
By all means write me off as a troll if it means you stop posting your drivel in here. I would love to see you try to explain to a room of people irl that men are the ones who are being oppressed by feminists calling them out on their misogyny.
Misogyny so ingrained that they don't even realize they are doing it and get super offended if you point it out.
HOW DARE YOU CALL ME A MEAN WORD !! |
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
25
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 14:15:00 -
[250] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:By all means write me off as a troll if it means you stop posting your drivel in here. I would love to see you try to explain to a room of people irl that men are the ones who are being oppressed by feminists calling them out on their misogyny. Misogyny so ingrained that they don't even realize they are doing it and get super offended if you point it out. HOW DARE YOU CALL ME A MEAN WORD !!
I reiterate; please acquaint yourself with an accurate definition of misogyny. You seem to believe something that simply isn't true.
Your arguments are falling down around your ears because you refuse to answer simple questions regarding them or, for that matter, anything else.
You've ignored my last few questions to you, presumably because you have no decent answers. Either enter the debate or accept that Nik got it right. |
|
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
53
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 14:19:00 -
[251] - Quote
It's pretty obvious to anyone educated reading this that both are you are very ingrained misogynists. Crying about how it's not your interpretation of the definition won't get you anywhere. Misogyny is misogyny even if the person is too dumb to realize what they are doing. |
Sal Volatile
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
45
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 14:24:00 -
[252] - Quote
Elshar Khandar wrote: I reiterate; please acquaint yourself with an accurate definition of misogyny. You seem to believe something that simply isn't true.
Your arguments are falling down around your ears because you refuse to answer simple questions regarding them or, for that matter, anything else.
You've ignored my last few questions to you, presumably because you have no decent answers. Either enter the debate or accept that Nik got it right.
The only people who accept your so-called accurate definition of misogyny are MRAs and other misogynists. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2348
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 14:26:00 -
[253] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:By all means write me off as a troll if it means you stop posting your drivel in here. I would love to see you try to explain to a room of people irl that men are the ones who are being oppressed by feminists calling them out on their misogyny. Who said we're "the ones being oppressed"? Why can't both genders point out flaws in society?
No one is being oppressed. Our society sucks and places unrealistic expectations on everyone. There's no grand conspiracy of men trying to subjugate women...it's just stupidity in action by all parties involved.
Isabel Midnight wrote:Misogyny so ingrained that they don't even realize they are doing it and get super offended if you point it out. "You hate me and don't even know it."
Of course I'm going to get offended if you accuse me of acts of hatred. Wouldn't you? The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
25
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 14:28:00 -
[254] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:It's pretty obvious to anyone educated reading this that both are you are very ingrained misogynists. Crying about how it's not your interpretation of the definition won't get you anywhere. Misogyny is misogyny even if the person is too dumb to realize what they are doing.
Ok, just for intellectual curiosity lets, hypothetically, say that you're definition is correct (which in reality it isn't).
By your own definition you're a misandrist and a racist. Whether your intention was to insult my gender or race you have because I say you have.
So, do you accept that you're a misandrist and a racist? |
Sal Volatile
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
45
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 14:28:00 -
[255] - Quote
Xuixien wrote: 70-80% of the victims of violent crime are............ men. Most **** victims are.......... men. Most military casualties are.......... men. Most people killed on the job are........ men. The people working the tough and dangerous jobs are...... men. Perpetrators of domestic violence are equally likely to be male or female, yet domestic abusers are only portrayed as......... men. As much as 40% of child molesters are female, yet child molesters are only portrayed as......... men. "Primary Aggressor" laws mean that even if the perpetrator is female, the people arrested for domestic disputes are.............. men.
INB4 B-b-b-b-b-but CEO's.
I'm just going to put a giant citation needed on these MRA talking points.
Also, counterpoint: A woman posts about how she thinks that being forced to put heels on her character is sexist and promptly gets dogpiled and insulted by numerous male posters.
|
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
25
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 14:28:00 -
[256] - Quote
Sal Volatile wrote:Elshar Khandar wrote: I reiterate; please acquaint yourself with an accurate definition of misogyny. You seem to believe something that simply isn't true.
Your arguments are falling down around your ears because you refuse to answer simple questions regarding them or, for that matter, anything else.
You've ignored my last few questions to you, presumably because you have no decent answers. Either enter the debate or accept that Nik got it right.
The only people who accept your so-called accurate definition of misogyny are MRAs and other misogynists.
Or just people who understand the English language.
EDIT - also, what the heck does MRA stand for?
If googled all I get is:
Motorcycle Racing Association
Magnetic Resonance Angiography
Mail Retrieval Agent
Mountain Rescue Association |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2348
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 14:30:00 -
[257] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:It's pretty obvious to anyone educated reading this that both are you are very ingrained misogynists. Show me one example of my so-called misogyny.
Go ahead, I'll wait. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
25
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 14:30:00 -
[258] - Quote
Sal Volatile wrote:Xuixien wrote: 70-80% of the victims of violent crime are............ men. Most **** victims are.......... men. Most military casualties are.......... men. Most people killed on the job are........ men. The people working the tough and dangerous jobs are...... men. Perpetrators of domestic violence are equally likely to be male or female, yet domestic abusers are only portrayed as......... men. As much as 40% of child molesters are female, yet child molesters are only portrayed as......... men. "Primary Aggressor" laws mean that even if the perpetrator is female, the people arrested for domestic disputes are.............. men.
INB4 B-b-b-b-b-but CEO's.
I'm just going to put a giant citation needed on these MRA talking points. Also, counterpoint: A woman posts about how she thinks that being forced to put heels on her character is sexist and promptly gets dogpiled and insulted by numerous male posters.
Where have I insulted any women? |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2349
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 14:43:00 -
[259] - Quote
Sal Volatile wrote:A woman posts about how she thinks that being forced to put heels on her character is sexist and promptly gets dogpiled and insulted by numerous male posters.
The first page:
1: OP 2: "this is a troll, right?" 3: "Men should get high heels, too!" 4: OP: "Post 3 isn't relevant to the subject I've dictated." 5: OP: bump 6: Marginally amusing troll poem/song 7: "Not another useless thread" 8: OP: #7 obviously hates women 9: "CCP should put flats in the NEX" 10: "It's only a game." 11: "Is this really that important?" 12: "Nobody cares." 13: "I'd like to have shoes without heels." 14: "The vehement reaction against this is telling." (what vehement reaction? Vehement apathy?) 15: "Agree." 16: "I have seen the future, and it wears heels." 17: Strange post talking about trans players and then supporting the OP and then...asking the OP out? 18: "How is having a female character crossdressing?" 19: #17 replies to #18. 20: "Did you know that high heels may improve the tone of a woman's pelvic floor, thus affecting female incontinence?" (which I believe was pasted from some web site, obviously a joke on the part of the poster)
#7, 10, 11, and 12 all had the same initial reaction I did: is this really that important? This is shoes in a game about internet space ships. The reaction wasn't one of hatred or oppression, but a total lack of caring...which was promptly interpreted as hate.
There were four posts of direct support, four posts of the "meh" variety, and it's being suggested that this thread got "dogpiled" by woman-haters. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
540
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 14:45:00 -
[260] - Quote
Sal Volatile wrote:Elshar Khandar wrote: I reiterate; please acquaint yourself with an accurate definition of misogyny. You seem to believe something that simply isn't true.
Your arguments are falling down around your ears because you refuse to answer simple questions regarding them or, for that matter, anything else.
You've ignored my last few questions to you, presumably because you have no decent answers. Either enter the debate or accept that Nik got it right.
The only people who accept your so-called accurate definition of misogyny are MRAs and other misogynists. Courtesy of dictionary dot com http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/misogyny mi-+sog-+y-+nyGÇé GÇé[mi-soj-uh-nee, mahy-] noun hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women.[/url]
The difference that makes no difference IS no difference.
And please specify your usage of MRA, it seems to lack relevance to this issue without proper context. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
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Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
26
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 15:05:00 -
[261] - Quote
MRA = Men's Rights Advocate
Is this right?
If so I can see a glaringly obvious flaw in your argument. MRA's appear to stand for equal rights. They don't have a misogynistic viewpoint. Equal rights is not a hateful standpoint.
If you think it is you're condemning a massive proportion of the female population of the world to be hatemongers as Women's Rights (equal rights for women) as a concept has been subscribed to by women for more than a century.
That is, unless you're a man-hater. In that case your viewpoint is skewed by hate so should be discarded as irrelevant. |
Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
139
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 15:15:00 -
[262] - Quote
Sal Volatile wrote:Xuixien wrote: 70-80% of the victims of violent crime are............ men. Most **** victims are.......... men. Most military casualties are.......... men. Most people killed on the job are........ men. The people working the tough and dangerous jobs are...... men. Perpetrators of domestic violence are equally likely to be male or female, yet domestic abusers are only portrayed as......... men. As much as 40% of child molesters are female, yet child molesters are only portrayed as......... men. "Primary Aggressor" laws mean that even if the perpetrator is female, the people arrested for domestic disputes are.............. men.
INB4 B-b-b-b-b-but CEO's.
I'm just going to put a giant citation needed on these MRA talking points.
"Citation needed"? "MRA talking points"? Oh we're playing that game now. On the EVE-O forums no less. Okay I'll nibble - but just a little bit. I'm not going to handhold you through every stat, but I will post a few things for you to gander at. For further self-education, please refer to google. Since it's most likely that you will try to remain willfully ignorant to facts, I would rather you try to find those facts yourself and save me the time. Thanks!
Victims of Violent Crime -Homicides Alone: http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/gender.cfm -Crime Stats; See "Violent Crime Rates by Gender" http://www.4uth.gov.ua/usa/english/trade/whstats/crime.htm
Military Casualties -This is a no brainer and I can't really believe you're asking for a citation on it. Men make up a disproportionate number of military casualties relative to the ratio of men/women in the military.
Workplace Deaths -See: http://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cfch0004.pdf Further reading: http://www.bls.gov/iif/oshcfoi1.htm
Men Work Dangerous Jobs -This is another no brainer. You can look up for yourself the ratio of men/women in such fields as oil prospecting, military service, police, firefighter, garbage collection, construction, EMT, nuclear, water treatment, waste management, etc.
Now since this is a video game, and you are most likely reactionary, young, and uneducated, I don't see this discussion going further. Have a good one....
Sal Volatile wrote:Also, counterpoint: A woman posts about how she thinks that being forced to put heels on her character is sexist and promptly gets dogpiled and insulted by numerous male posters.
Your counterpoint is irrelevant. This is the EVE-O forums, and someone posted something stupid. The outcome is predictable, not because of misogyny, but because this is the EVE-O forums and someone posted something stupid. Rabble Rabble!! Rifterlings is currently recruiting frigate and cruiser pilots for LowSec/NullSec small gang PvP and FW. Newbies and veterans alike are welcome.
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Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
139
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 15:18:00 -
[263] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Sal Volatile wrote:A woman posts about how she thinks that being forced to put heels on her character is sexist and promptly gets dogpiled and insulted by numerous male posters.
The first page: 1: OP 2: "this is a troll, right?" 3: "Men should get high heels, too!" 4: OP: "Post 3 isn't relevant to the subject I've dictated." 5: OP: bump 6: Marginally amusing troll poem/song 7: "Not another useless thread" 8: OP: #7 obviously hates women 9: "CCP should put flats in the NEX" 10: "It's only a game." 11: "Is this really that important?" 12: "Nobody cares." 13: "I'd like to have shoes without heels." 14: "The vehement reaction against this is telling." (what vehement reaction? Vehement apathy?) 15: "Agree." 16: "I have seen the future, and it wears heels." 17: Strange post talking about trans players and then supporting the OP and then...asking the OP out? 18: "How is having a female character crossdressing?" 19: #17 replies to #18. 20: "Did you know that high heels may improve the tone of a woman's pelvic floor, thus affecting female incontinence?" (which I believe was pasted from some web site, obviously a joke on the part of the poster) #7, 10, 11, and 12 all had the same initial reaction I did: is this really that important? This is shoes in a game about internet space ships. The reaction wasn't one of hatred or oppression, but a total lack of caring...which was promptly interpreted as hate. There were four posts of direct support, four posts of the "meh" variety, and it's being suggested that this thread got "dogpiled" by woman-haters.
Well friend, women are clearly oppressed due to EVE Online's lack of footwear choices for female characters. And if you don't support the OP then you clearly must not care about the oppression of women, therefore, you're a misogynist.
Rabble Rabble!! Rifterlings is currently recruiting frigate and cruiser pilots for LowSec/NullSec small gang PvP and FW. Newbies and veterans alike are welcome.
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FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2349
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 15:23:00 -
[264] - Quote
Now that the OP has accused me directly of misogyny, I went through my own posts looking for it. This is what I found:
1) I have absolutely no problem with the OP's personal dislike for high heels, but dispute the notion of them being misogynistic. Women are not forced to wear them. In fact some women wear them because they like the appearance of heels.
High heels are bad for the wearer. Everyone should know this by now. But asserting that they're a tool of oppression used by men to make women more attractive is ignoring history, where it was previously suggested that high heels were used to make women look less graceful so they wouldn't be attractive...and then there's the fact that MEN WORE HIGH HEELS FOR CENTURIES. Today, heels are a consensual fashion choice for women. I'd love to see any sort of proof that women are forced to wear heels, or penalized for not doing so.
2) I think "-ism" words (racism, sexism, ageism, et cetera...misogyny falls into this group) as well as the term "privilege" are overused and only serve to dilute arguments. In this specific case, they seem to be tossed around any time the OP needs to dismiss a poster as not being entitled to an opinion. "You don't count because you're sexist." Conversations on such topics are far more productive of those words are left out entirely. A conversation about high heels on game avatars turned into a referendum on sexual politics because the OP and a couple of others continually accused all their detractors of acting on hate.
3) There would likely be a significant investment of effort on the part of CCP to change this, as illustrated by the "molded" feet of the stripped female model. It was apparently not designed in a way that it could tolerate multiple types of shoes. As I said before, "they have ships to make pretty." I don't agree that this needs to be a priority for the art team when all of the actual gameplay is in space. (something I meant to say but never got around to putting into a post: It *should* be on the list of things to change with future incarna iterations.)
4) The choice of high heels for Eve avatars is not necessarily misogynistic. I suggested that it might be the case that they did market research and got better response on avatars in heels, or that it was simply an artistic preference. Stating that it was done out of some deep-seated dislike of women is leaping to a rather far-fetched conclusion.
Some highlights of my posts:
Quote:You're complaining because the artwork isn't according to your taste. Correction: you're angry because because you don't like the artwork.
Quote:I could say "I really want my wife to quit her job and stay home with the kids." You might immediately assume I'm an oppressive pig who wants a barefoot pregnant wife making me sandwiches. The truth of the matter is, that was my wife's ambition, and it became my ambition out of love for her.
She quit her job last month and is happier than ever. God I'm such a pig.
Also, I'm way better at making sandwiches.
Quote:It's all a cosmetic arms race driven by women, NOT by domineering men. Although I must confess to enjoying the show. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
542
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 15:32:00 -
[265] - Quote
I think a shop called "Floppies Sandwiches" would have excellent sales.
It would have a deliberately casual air to it, offer wifi and comfortable seating for people to relax and hang out.
Kinda like a coffee shop, but sandwich focused. I am sure coffee could be sold too. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2350
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 15:46:00 -
[266] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:I think a shop called "Floppies Sandwiches" would have excellent sales.
It would have a deliberately casual air to it, offer wifi and comfortable seating for people to relax and hang out.
Kinda like a coffee shop, but sandwich focused. I am sure coffee could be sold too.
It's been suggested in the past that I open up a burger place. I could get behind the sandwich shop thing though.
If only I could run a restaurant and still be lazy. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
27
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 15:59:00 -
[267] - Quote
Perhaps running a bordello might be better if you want to be lazy.
"Floppie's Bordello" has an interesting ring to it |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
543
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 16:06:00 -
[268] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote:I think a shop called "Floppies Sandwiches" would have excellent sales.
It would have a deliberately casual air to it, offer wifi and comfortable seating for people to relax and hang out.
Kinda like a coffee shop, but sandwich focused. I am sure coffee could be sold too. It's been suggested in the past that I open up a burger place. I could get behind the sandwich shop thing though. If only I could run a restaurant and still be lazy. You only need to train the staff how to make the food, not do it yourself.
Creativity is a quality not necessary for repetition and suchlike.
It is entirely reasonable that you could act the part of the floor host, and ensure the comfort and well being of the guests by mingling with them and being social. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Paikis
Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking
158
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 16:37:00 -
[269] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Misogyny so ingrained that they don't even realize they are doing it and get super offended if you point it out. HOW DARE YOU CALL ME A MEAN WORD !!
I'm a misogynist. Me me me. I intensely dislike you as an individual, and I distrust the wimminz as a group. That qualifies me as a misogynist. Can I get a badge or something? Maybe a shirt with "this is what a misogynist looks like" written on it.
Please note that even claiming misogyny has nothing to do with hate. I don't hate the wimminz as a group, and although I don't like you, you simply aren't worth the effort of hating. The wimminz are a constant source of disappointment, and my complete lack of respect is based on things that no individual can change. Until society starts treating the wimminz as adults, instead of children that must be protected from everything, including their own foolish actions, then I say no woman is worthy of respect. That's a bit sad for the women who would otherwise be worthy of that respect, but when the excrement matches coordinates with the circular atmosphere agitator, a man is accountable for himself, a woman is not.
Also, 3/10 for trolling. You got lazy. |
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
27
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 17:11:00 -
[270] - Quote
Elshar Khandar wrote:Isabel Midnight wrote:It's pretty obvious to anyone educated reading this that both are you are very ingrained misogynists. Crying about how it's not your interpretation of the definition won't get you anywhere. Misogyny is misogyny even if the person is too dumb to realize what they are doing. Ok, just for intellectual curiosity lets, hypothetically, say that your definition is correct (which in reality it isn't). By your own definition you're a misandrist and a racist. Whether your intention was to insult my gender or race you have because I say you have. So, do you accept that you're a misandrist and a racist?
I don't like quoting myself but you must have missed this, Isabel. Would you care to answer it or does it paint you in a terrible light with no logical out for you because of your flawed arguments? |
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Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
543
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 17:12:00 -
[271] - Quote
Paikis wrote:Isabel Midnight wrote:Misogyny so ingrained that they don't even realize they are doing it and get super offended if you point it out. HOW DARE YOU CALL ME A MEAN WORD !! I'm a misogynist. Me me me. I intensely dislike you as an individual, and I distrust the wimminz as a group. That qualifies me as a misogynist. Can I get a badge or something? Maybe a shirt with "this is what a misogynist looks like" written on it. Please note that even claiming misogyny has nothing to do with hate. I don't hate the wimminz as a group, and although I don't like you, you simply aren't worth the effort of hating. The wimminz are a constant source of disappointment, and my complete lack of respect is based on things that no individual can change. Until society starts treating the wimminz as adults, instead of children that must be protected from everything, including their own foolish actions, then I say no woman is worthy of respect. That's a bit sad for the women who would otherwise be worthy of that respect, but when the excrement matches coordinates with the circular atmosphere agitator, a man is accountable for himself, a woman is not. Also, 3/10 for trolling. You got lazy. I would suggest the following rewording.... (just for dramatic result, no significant technical improvement)
Bladed spinning element of atmospheric re-circulation device Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
140
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 17:24:00 -
[272] - Quote
Paikis wrote:Isabel Midnight wrote:Misogyny so ingrained that they don't even realize they are doing it and get super offended if you point it out. HOW DARE YOU CALL ME A MEAN WORD !! I'm a misogynist. Me me me. I intensely dislike you as an individual, and I distrust the wimminz as a group. That qualifies me as a misogynist. Can I get a badge or something? Maybe a shirt with "this is what a misogynist looks like" written on it. Please note that even claiming misogyny has nothing to do with hate. I don't hate the wimminz as a group, and although I don't like you, you simply aren't worth the effort of hating. The wimminz are a constant source of disappointment, and my complete lack of respect is based on things that no individual can change. Until society starts treating the wimminz as adults, instead of children that must be protected from everything, including their own foolish actions, then I say no woman is worthy of respect. That's a bit sad for the women who would otherwise be worthy of that respect, but when the excrement matches coordinates with the circular atmosphere agitator, a man is accountable for himself, a woman is not. Also, 3/10 for trolling. You got lazy.
B-b-b-but women are oppressed! That's why all these laws exist specifically to protect women and only women, and that's why 60% of University graduates are women - because women aren't allowed to attend school! They're oppressed! Rabble Rabble!! Rifterlings is currently recruiting frigate and cruiser pilots for LowSec/NullSec small gang PvP and FW. Newbies and veterans alike are welcome.
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PinkKnife
The Scope Gallente Federation
206
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 17:52:00 -
[273] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:
Military Casualties -This is a no brainer and I can't really believe you're asking for a citation on it. Men make up a disproportionate number of military casualties relative to the ratio of men/women in the military.
Regarding this, of course they do, women are by and large not allowed in/discouraged from infantry and front line combat roles. Likewise, women are discouraged from doing anything that might be perceived as masculine. I.e. police work, fire fighting, military roles and so on. So when they do, they end up as secretaries, or dispatchers. Positions away from dangerous activities.
The issue with **** isn't the statistics, it's the reaction to it. This society teaches women "don't get raped" rather than teaching men "don't ****". There is a huge amount of victim blaming and character assassinations that go on whenever a woman claims ****. Feminists aren't arguing that male **** isn't important, Western society laughs at male **** and makes jokes about it, when it is a serious problem. Feminists are arguing that how **** is dealt with in our society unfairly burdens women.
For example, the lesson isn't "don't **** women" it's "don't walk alone in a dark alley". The notion is that **** is somehow a unpreventable crime that strikes like lightning and some women are just less lucky than others. It gets even worse when you factor in things like alcohol, or if the rapist is someone you were involved with. I.e. A husband raping a wife is a horrible discussion to have because so many people see that as "his privilege".
Yes, women do graduate college at higher rates, yet despite this, they are still only a fraction of managerial positions, and they still make 70% of what men do even accounting for experience and education.
Please stop trying to bash women and feminist for something we aren't guilty of. Feminists don't hate men, they just want to be treated equally, and be able to walk home at night without someone blaming their **** on how they were dressed or how they look.
The reason laws protecting women and other minorities is because they are largely targeted because of who they are, and thus deserving of extra protections to counter that.
Regarding this issue, The gaming industry is largely masculine, thus most female aspects tend to be the stereotypical ones. High heels, short skirts, giant ****, etc. CCP is better about this in some regards (letting Pink for example, have a smaller chest to fit her smaller frame). The argument for having more options is a good one that I support, be it for male or female characters.
The argument for cross dressing however, I'm against as it would be used almost exclusively by trolls. |
PinkKnife
The Scope Gallente Federation
206
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 18:03:00 -
[274] - Quote
Paikis wrote: Please note that even claiming misogyny has nothing to do with hate. I don't hate the wimminz as a group, and although I don't like you, you simply aren't worth the effort of hating. The wimminz are a constant source of disappointment, and my complete lack of respect is based on things that no individual can change. Until society starts treating the wimminz as adults, instead of children that must be protected from everything, including their own foolish actions, then I say no woman is worthy of respect. That's a bit sad for the women who would otherwise be worthy of that respect, but when the excrement matches coordinates with the circular atmosphere agitator, a man is accountable for himself, a woman is not.
Also, to address this, I'm not sure if this is sarcastic or not, so I'm assuming it isn't.
This, is misogyny. You do not need to hate women, to be a misogynist. The definition was posted earlier, hate is only one aspect, the distrust, or dislike, of women as a whole is also misogynistic.
If you want me to point out how, why, I can, but largely you can check this against racism to see if it also fits.
Replace women with Latinos, or Africans, and see if it is racists (it is) and congrats, you've just proven yourself a sexists and misogynist.
Paikis wrote: Please note that even claiming racism has nothing to do with hate. I don't hate the latinos as a group, and although I don't like you, you simply aren't worth the effort of hating. The latinos are a constant source of disappointment, and my complete lack of respect is based on things that no individual can change. Until society starts treating the latinos as adults, instead of children that must be protected from everything, including their own foolish actions, then I say no latino is worthy of respect. That's a bit sad for the latinos who would otherwise be worthy of that respect, but when the excrement matches coordinates with the circular atmosphere agitator, a white man is accountable for himself, a latino man is not.
See what a difference it makes? |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1298
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 18:39:00 -
[275] - Quote
I think all MRAs and feminists should be dragged out and... um... nicely brainwashed (not my original thought, I'll leave that up to your vivid imaginations).
They are both what is wrong with this world in the inequalities of the sexes.
As a woman, the only misogyny in this thread is from the guy who may have been joking, and the OP (in the form of making us women look like morons).
I'm sick of the OP claiming misogyny where none exists. It downplays the seriousness of such behavior, and the danger it poses to civilized society.
At this time I woudl like to bring out that the OP may be a pedophile. It doesn't matter that they aren't, it does not matter that they do not fit the sensible definitions of the term. They simply are.
OP, that is what you have been doing. Its terrible, and degrades women more than strip clubs. |
Kult Altol
Republican Industries Epsilon Fleet
66
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:07:00 -
[276] - Quote
Wow, this thread is still going on.
I don't think the strip club degrades females, but the females degrade them selves. A narrow mind is a focused mind. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2354
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:14:00 -
[277] - Quote
PinkKnife wrote:women are discouraged from doing anything that might be perceived as masculine. I.e. police work, fire fighting, military roles and so on. So when they do, they end up as secretaries, or dispatchers. Positions away from dangerous activities. The physical requirements for such jobs often exclude the majority of women. A firefighter needs to be able to carry an incapacitated victim out of a building. As emotionally strong as women can be, their bodies aren't as durable as ours. We are biologically better suited to dangerous, physically demanding work. it's only rational that men would dominate careers like that. Even with truly equal opportunity, more men would be selected for such jobs based on qualifications.
And yes, we do have a bit of a "protect the women" mentality that drives us to keep them in safe places. That's another aspect of our biology: we're driven to be risk-takers on behalf of our family and community in order to ensure the safety of the women and children, ensuring our genes carry on.
PinkKnife wrote:This society teaches women "don't get raped" rather than teaching men "don't ****". Yeah, let's propagate THIS myth some more.
PinkKnife wrote:For example, the lesson isn't "don't **** women" it's "don't walk alone in a dark alley". Why can't it be both? After all, I'm pretty sure both "burglary is bad" AND "lock your doors at night" are both common lessons. Sure, we'd all love to live in a world where the greatest risk of walking down a dark alley is tripping over a startled cat, but we don't. There are bad people out there. Don't afford them more opportunities than you have to.
PinkKnife wrote:Yes, women do graduate college at higher rates, yet despite this, they are still only a fraction of managerial positions, and they still make 70% of what men do even accounting for experience and education.
Women are also less likely to work significant amounts of overtime, and they don't stay at any given place of employment as long. Because of this, women are less likely to be perceived as having initiative or they don't stay on long enough to get the same promotions and raises as men. The "gender gap" exists in some places, but it's not as wide as some numbers suggest.
Women have the obvious disadvantage of maternity. If you want to have children, you're in for some serious downtime from the office if you want to properly care for a newborn. Men are out of work for no more than a week in most cases. No discrimination is required for a woman to be perceived as being less dedicated or simply have less face-time with the person who would decide between her and a male colleague for promotion. There doesn't have to be a conscious "oh she had a baby we can't promote her" thought; her male competitor was simply there when it counted.
My father works for the federal government. He faces an opposite situation: women are directly given preference for promotions by having points added to their score on the tests they take to be considered. A minority woman in his workplace gets a full 15 points added to a grade that caps at 100. You want embittered misogyny, you should listen to some of the men who have worked in places like that for their entire career.
PinkKnife wrote:The reason laws protecting women and other minorities is because they are largely targeted because of who they are, and thus deserving of extra protections to counter that. I'm not sure what you mean by "targeted". If you're talking about crime, then you're wrong. The vast majority of crimes aren't about hate. **** might be the obvious exception, but I think that having a different set of laws for raping women versus raping men is just as wrong as any other sort of discrimination. **** is ****, it's a horrible thing, and the punishment should be the same regardless of the victim. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2354
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:17:00 -
[278] - Quote
Kult Altol wrote:I don't think the strip club degrades females, but the females degrade them selves. Meh.
The strip club puts a heft enough price tag on degradation that some women will tolerate it because the alternative is more work for less pay. Still, most of the women in places like that aren't trapped; they simply don't like any alternative. If every woman were to decide the money wasn't good enough, there would be no more strip clubs. Well, not the kind most men would be interested in. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2354
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:19:00 -
[279] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:It is entirely reasonable that you could act the part of the floor host, and ensure the comfort and well being of the guests by mingling with them and being social.
Not really. I suspect I'd be far too particular about the food being offered up as "mine" to not be in the kitchen hovering over every worker. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
545
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:35:00 -
[280] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote:It is entirely reasonable that you could act the part of the floor host, and ensure the comfort and well being of the guests by mingling with them and being social. Not really. I suspect I'd be far too particular about the food being offered up as "mine" to not be in the kitchen hovering over every worker. I believe you could accomplish that task without as much stress.
Ensure the food preparation staff are properly trained. Run periodic spot checks, mystery shoppers, etc. Let them know this kind of thing happens, and that they will be evaluated on part by these results.
Much of the poor results we get from places is based on the preparer's mistaken belief noone really cares. This is never true, but perception can lie to an employee, making them neglect proper performance.
If they can hold themselves to always understanding that high standards brings them better rewards, they will succeed, and your business will succeed with them.
TL / DR: Good employees make good sandwiches
Oh, and since they aren't in a capsuleer pod suspended in amniotic goo flying a spaceship, they should probably wear sensible shoes. Just sayin.... Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
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FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective
2355
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:36:00 -
[281] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:since they aren't in a capsuleer pod suspended in amniotic goo flying a spaceship, they should probably wear sensible shoes. Just sayin....
So I shouldn't open a restaurant themed on the fact that all employees must wear high heels? The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
547
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 19:42:00 -
[282] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Nikk Narrel wrote:since they aren't in a capsuleer pod suspended in amniotic goo flying a spaceship, they should probably wear sensible shoes. Just sayin.... So I shouldn't open a restaurant themed on the fact that all employees must wear high heels? Oh, heavens no!
That would be most impractical.
- Behind the counter, it is often needed to carry awkward and heavy objects such as food containers and trays of items needing balance.
- Spills, be they water oil or anything liquid or paste like can be a footing hazard, and many feel less stable in high heels attempting to balance under ideal conditions.
For simple safety reasons, sensible footwear is a good idea for everyone not in a capsuleer pod surrounded by amniotic goo. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
143
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 20:04:00 -
[283] - Quote
PinkKnife wrote:Yes, women do graduate college at higher rates, yet despite this, they are still only a fraction of managerial positions, and they still make 70% of what men do even accounting for experience and education.
I've got some news for you. That "70%" statistic (and every incarnation thereof; 50/100, 80/100, etc etc depending on which feminist you talk to and just how zany and fanatic she is) has been in circulation since the late 70's/early 80's. Isn't it strange how it hasn't changed in over 30 years? And isn't it strange how there's no actual real data on it; no government studies or census statistics on it, no actual official anything... just a random number that gets floated about feminist echo-chambers and cited ad nasaeum in "gender studies" classes? No, it's actually not strange, because the statistic was bullshit then, has continued to be bullshit for 30 years, and is still bullshit now. The adjusted wage gap (ie, when you take into account relevant things such as field worked in, amount of hours worked, level of education achieved, willingness to work overtime, willingness to work while sick, willingness to put family second, etc etc) is something like 5 cents. And in some situations (ie, part time labor), women earn more than men. For example, in many cities across the US, single, childless women in their 20's earn 10% more than single, childless men in their 20's.
PinkKnife wrote:Please stop trying to bash women and feminist for something we aren't guilty of. Feminists don't hate men, they just want to be treated equally, and be able to walk home at night without someone blaming their **** on how they were dressed or how they look.
Confirming that women have it so bad that they can't even walk home at night without some random person blaming them for ****.
PinkKnife wrote:The reason laws protecting women and other minorities is because they are largely targeted because of who they are, and thus deserving of extra protections to counter that.
Wait, are you talking about how 75% of the victims of violent crime are men? Is that what you mean by women needing extra protection such as VAWA... because they are targeted for crime....?
PinkKnife wrote:Regarding this issue, The gaming industry is largely masculine, thus most female aspects tend to be the stereotypical ones.
Did you ever notice how the male aspects also tend to be... stereotypical ones? But nobody's eyes are leaking over that one. Rabble Rabble!! Rifterlings is currently recruiting frigate and cruiser pilots for LowSec/NullSec small gang PvP and FW. Newbies and veterans alike are welcome.
|
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
547
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 20:19:00 -
[284] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Did you ever notice how the male aspects also tend to be... stereotypical ones? But nobody's eyes are leaking over that one. If only we had the options to create male avatars with physical characteristics more in line with expectations regarding intelligence and a lifestyle of contemplative thought....
Meh, maybe in the future we can pick our physical appearance the same way we choose our socks.
Many of us men will probably be mismatched, but having vulcan eyebrows would totally rock.
Just say no to high heels unless you are suspended in a capsuleer pod filled with amniotic goo! Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
54
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 20:56:00 -
[285] - Quote
Teenage girls suffer far worse with body issues than teenage boys. Anorexia , bulimia the list goes on. Don't try and tell me these things affect men just as much as they do women because they do not. |
Astroniomix
Thorn Project Black Thorne Alliance
175
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 21:23:00 -
[286] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Teenage girls suffer far worse with body issues than teenage boys. Anorexia , bulimia the list goes on. Don't try and tell me these things affect men just as much as they do women because they do not. How is any of that relevant?
|
Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
143
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 21:30:00 -
[287] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Teenage girls suffer far worse with body issues than teenage boys. Anorexia , bulimia the list goes on. Don't try and tell me these things affect men just as much as they do women because they do not.
The incidence of anorexia and bulimia amongst teenaged boys is indeed rising. Males also commit suicide at much higher rates than females do. The average suicide ratio between men:women is 4:1, but at some points in the life span it can be as high as 10:1 (senior years) and 6:1 (during the teenage years). In fact, being male is an independent risk factor for suicide throughout the entire lifespan, starting at puberty. However, the "suicide gap" gets much less attention than the "anorexia gap"... anorexia being responsible for 150 female deaths per year, and suicide being responsible for over 30,000 male deaths per year. Rabble Rabble!! Rifterlings is currently recruiting frigate and cruiser pilots for LowSec/NullSec small gang PvP and FW. Newbies and veterans alike are welcome.
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Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
143
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 21:31:00 -
[288] - Quote
Astroniomix wrote:Isabel Midnight wrote:Teenage girls suffer far worse with body issues than teenage boys. Anorexia , bulimia the list goes on. Don't try and tell me these things affect men just as much as they do women because they do not. How is any of that relevant?
It's not.
This is the part where the feminist tries to cite examples of how women have it worse than man in an effort to validate the "women are oppressed" premise. Rabble Rabble!! Rifterlings is currently recruiting frigate and cruiser pilots for LowSec/NullSec small gang PvP and FW. Newbies and veterans alike are welcome.
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Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
54
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 21:43:00 -
[289] - Quote
It's relevant to all the dudes in here crying about how muscle men threaten their body image. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
547
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 21:52:00 -
[290] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:It's relevant to all the dudes in here crying about how muscle men threaten their body image. Threaten?
Oh my, that would be incorrect.
My body image is superior to that of my avatar. It may never be featured in any fashion magazines, but, like many I possess a beauty that cannot be expressed by mere physical 'ideals'. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
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Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
144
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 21:54:00 -
[291] - Quote
Posting to confirm that high heels in video games give women "body image issues". Rabble Rabble!! Rifterlings is currently recruiting frigate and cruiser pilots for LowSec/NullSec small gang PvP and FW. Newbies and veterans alike are welcome.
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Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
144
|
Posted - 2012.09.10 23:15:00 -
[292] - Quote
Post on your main, feminist coward. Rabble Rabble!! Rifterlings is currently recruiting frigate and cruiser pilots for LowSec/NullSec small gang PvP and FW. Newbies and veterans alike are welcome.
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Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1301
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 01:15:00 -
[293] - Quote
Good find.
Incidentally, I hate my browser. |
Katie Frost
Asgard. Exodus.
98
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 05:49:00 -
[294] - Quote
The OP and this ******** thread should be reported and shut down for violating rules of conduct, namely:
Quote: 4.Be respectful of others at all times. The purpose of the forum is to provide a platform for the exchange of ideas. Occasionally, there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Be courteous when disagreeing with others. It is possible to disagree without being insulting. 5.Ranting is prohibited A rant is a long-winded, redundant post, often filled with angry, non-constructive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and helpful in the development of the game, but rants are disruptive and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise, clear manner and avoid going off on rambling tangents. 6.Personal attacks are prohibited. Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another. Text of this nature is not beneficial to the community spirit and will not be tolerated. Corporation, faction and alliance members and other players are cautioned to avoid allowing GÇ£in characterGÇ¥ disputes from becoming "out of character" personal attacks. The game is designed for role-playing and/or portraying a role and it is sometimes easy for tempers to flare when the lines between the virtual world and the real world are crossed. Please keep in-game disputes in the game and off the forum unless it is clearly a mutual, in-character exchange. 7.Trolling is prohibited. Trolling is the word used to describe a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting the players. Posts of this nature are disruptive and do not contribute to the sense of community we want for our forums.
Emphasised sections are bolded.
The OP has directly insulted several posters that have offered constructive feedback to the drivel she wrote up in her hate-filled original post. OP continued to sustain accusing and insulting other posters of hating women, even after her incorrect use of the term "misogyny" had been pointed out several times. Lastly, it is clear that the argument(?) offered in the original post was presented and worded in such a way as to deliberately anger and provoke other members of the community.
TL;DR Get rid of this intellectually challenged ***** and her equally moronic thread... oh I do love the hypocrisy too.
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Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
29
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 09:11:00 -
[295] - Quote
@Isabel Midnight and all of her alts. Please answer the following question. Your refusal to answer this on the third attempt will prove to all and sundry that you are well aware that your arguments are illogical, your definition of misogyny is flawed and your thread is pure troll.
"Ok, just for intellectual curiosity lets, hypothetically, say that your definition of misogyny is correct (which in reality it isn't).
I am offended by your insults. I find them offensive to my race and gender. By your own definition that makes you a racist and a misandrist because whether you intend it or not that is the way I'm interpreting your words.
So, do you accept that you're a misandrist and a racist?" |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
54
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 11:26:00 -
[296] - Quote
I guess I should have expected this level of abuse from a bunch of internet males. Girl want's change to MY video game?? *smashes chest and jumps up and down* NEVER I WILL NOT ALLOW IT THIS MAN GAME |
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
29
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 11:41:00 -
[297] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:I guess I should have expected this level of abuse from a bunch of internet males. Girl want's change to MY video game?? *smashes chest and jumps up and down* NEVER I WILL NOT ALLOW IT THIS MAN GAME
Are you refusing to answer my previous question? |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
54
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 11:45:00 -
[298] - Quote
Misandry isn't a real concept so no I can't be that. Accusing me of being a racist is absurd. You're flailing around trying to find anything that will stick to me.
Just accept the original point that high heels only is not cool and something CCP need to fix to bring this game into 2012... |
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
29
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 11:49:00 -
[299] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Misandry isn't a real concept so no I can't be that. Accusing me of being a racist is absurd. You're flailing around trying to find anything that will stick to me.
Just accept the original point that high heels only is not cool and something CCP need to fix to bring this game into 2012...
You're being absurd. It either works both ways or not at all.
You're either a bigot or misogyny requires intent.
I'm reporting this thread now because it's become obvious that you're just trolling. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
54
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 11:58:00 -
[300] - Quote
Misandry isn't a real concept because it requires a level of privileged to oppress someone. The under priviledged(women) cannot oppress the over privileged. It just does not have the same effect. It's like the bullied kid on the playground calling one of their attackers a mean name. The attacker can just laugh it off because they have so much real power over the victim. |
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Isphirel
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
19
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 12:05:00 -
[301] - Quote
Elshar Khandar wrote:Isabel Midnight wrote:Misandry isn't a real concept so no I can't be that. Accusing me of being a racist is absurd. You're flailing around trying to find anything that will stick to me.
Just accept the original point that high heels only is not cool and something CCP need to fix to bring this game into 2012... You're being absurd. It either works both ways or not at all. You're either a bigot or misogyny requires intent. I'm reporting this thread now because it's become obvious that you're just trolling.
It doesn't work both ways because misogyny is a symptom of an societal imbalance. Imbalances don't work both ways, that's the entire point. |
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
29
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 12:08:00 -
[302] - Quote
I've reported this thread. You're just trolling.
I don't mind debating things with people who are willing to actually logically debate. You're not. You just want to claim inflamatory things in order to get an emotional response out of people.
That's the definition of trolling. Trolling is against the forum rules which is why I've reported this thread. |
Isphirel
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
19
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 12:19:00 -
[303] - Quote
Elshar Khandar wrote:I've reported this thread. You're just trolling.
I'm all for debate, but not every topic can be reduced to a small set of symmetrical, logical arguments. Misogyny is a complex issue that is reflecting society at large in many nuanced ways. If you try to draft up an argument that revolves around a simplistic strawman that omits that complexity, you're necessarily losing all of the important nuance and really saying nothing.
Amazingly enough, problems that affect real people rather than internet spaceships don't exist in a vacuum. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
54
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 12:20:00 -
[304] - Quote
Phase 2 of a misogynist addressing women's concerns : dismissal |
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
29
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 12:37:00 -
[305] - Quote
I don't care whether there are only high heals in the game. There is no avatar interaction so it doesn't actually matter.
What I do care about is your claim that all men who disagree with you are misogynistic. This simply isn't true.
You're claiming that anyone who you say is misogynistic is misogynistic irrespective of whether they hate, dislike or distrust women in general. You're saying that intent has nothing to do with it.
However, when the tables are turned you claim that you cannot be branded as anything by anyone because for you (and I presume all women, according to you) the same rules don't apply. When I brand you as a man-hater because I say that you're expressing genuine vitriol towards all men you claim that this isn't the case with a purile, completely out of date argument because you simply won't agree with equality. In this instance though, you are creating an inequality towards men. You're claiming that women have the right to call men sexist haters but men have no rights whatsoever to call women sexist haters. So you're oppressing men.
So according to you, one set of rules controlled entirely by women apply to men and yet the rules which apply to women are also controlled by women, when discussing sexism.
That makes men the oppressed ones. Your very distinction makes you, women, the oppressor, not men.
But all this is immaterial. This is the featues and ideas forum, not the trolling forum. If you really wanted to push your suggestion you wouldn't have started this ludicrous debate. You're simply trolling, as has been stated by many people throughout this thread.
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Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
54
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 12:45:00 -
[306] - Quote
You came in and started this debate because you were angry someone would dare call men out on their bullshit. Leave and this isn't a debate. I think you should at this point you are just wildly grasping at straws and making a fool of yourself. |
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ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
44
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 12:54:00 -
[307] - Quote
Hi,
I think the point has been made clearly, if not constructively here.
If you would like to suggest that the Art team provides a flat bottomed alternative then please do so, but this debate started abrassively and has continued as such.
Can I please remind everyone to post constructively and avoid being disrespectful to your fellow forum goers, and CCP staff members.
Thanks and fly safe! ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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