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Idami Raptor
Gallente Section Eight LLC Omega Vector
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Posted - 2011.04.10 03:06:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Mortania
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: krickettt Supported. Tired of broken features. CCP needs a new QA team as well.
Speaking of which, I heard whispers of unconfirmed rumours that CCP actually lost a noticeable portion of their former testers not so long ago (fuzzy on the details as to why though), so basically, they're running with an understaffed and overworked QA team. Would love to get an official denial of that, but appearances do lend a lot of credence to those rumours. It would certainly explain a few things.
I've been thinking about this... I'm not going to blame QA anymore.
We've seen that when people do point out problems with features that they are ignored and pushed through anyway (and you might get a ban on top of it).
This is a management problem. A lack of resolve to quality.
I think so too, a lot of it smacks of them having a bona-fide american style corporate exec in there somewhere. It affects everything below them, because someone like that punishes anyone that tells them anything but what they want to hear, tends to be cut off from the reality of what's on the ground, and thinks he knows better than anyone else.
This type of person will get an idea and force it through, and literally not allow anyone below them to question it.
It's death for a company in the creative industry, because you HAVE To listen to your customers. The key point is being able to pick out the difference between people just saying they don't like it because it's different and being legitimately upset about it. In my experience most MMO makers seem to lose that ability after some years, as they grow used to the idea that people whine about everything, particularly on the forums.
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Jon Taggart
State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.04.10 03:09:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Jon Taggart on 10/04/2011 03:09:14
Originally by: Idami Raptor Edited by: Idami Raptor on 10/04/2011 02:56:31
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: krickettt Supported. Tired of broken features. CCP needs a new QA team as well.
Speaking of which, I heard whispers of unconfirmed rumours that CCP actually lost a noticeable portion of their former testers not so long ago (fuzzy on the details as to why though), so basically, they're running with an understaffed and overworked QA team. Would love to get an official denial of that, but appearances do lend a lot of credence to those rumours. It would certainly explain a few things.
http://www.ccpgames.com/en/jobs/job-details.aspx?jobid=239 *whistle innocently*
That job opening was posted on Feb 14th of this year. Thought I'd clarify. Not sure if that changes anything, probably not though.
Proof link.
Edit - How long have the new forums been in the making?
I'm not an alt |
Jon Taggart
State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.04.10 03:11:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Idami Raptor
I think so too, a lot of it smacks of them having a bona-fide american style corporate exec in there somewhere. It affects everything below them, because someone like that punishes anyone that tells them anything but what they want to hear, tends to be cut off from the reality of what's on the ground, and thinks he knows better than anyone else.
This type of person will get an idea and force it through, and literally not allow anyone below them to question it.
It's death for a company in the creative industry, because you HAVE To listen to your customers. The key point is being able to pick out the difference between people just saying they don't like it because it's different and being legitimately upset about it. In my experience most MMO makers seem to lose that ability after some years, as they grow used to the idea that people whine about everything, particularly on the forums.
Reminds me of the dev team during the Age of Shadows expansion for Ultima Online.
I'm not an alt |
Grimpak
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.04.10 03:14:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Mortania
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: krickettt Supported. Tired of broken features. CCP needs a new QA team as well.
Speaking of which, I heard whispers of unconfirmed rumours that CCP actually lost a noticeable portion of their former testers not so long ago (fuzzy on the details as to why though), so basically, they're running with an understaffed and overworked QA team. Would love to get an official denial of that, but appearances do lend a lot of credence to those rumours. It would certainly explain a few things.
I've been thinking about this... I'm not going to blame QA anymore.
We've seen that when people do point out problems with features that they are ignored and pushed through anyway (and you might get a ban on top of it).
This is a management problem. A lack of resolve to quality.
tbh that's what I'm starting to think more and more.
it's not that QA fails to do their job, it's like that there isn't QA at all.
most middle-rank devs are probably good chaps that try to do their jobs as good as they can I'm sure, but stuff gets kinda hard when the department that is used to make the customers not RAEG! can't even do basic testing. This whole new forum incident, could've been avoided not only by some basic QA testing, but also by some proactive testing provided by the Security department aswell. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Idami Raptor
Gallente Section Eight LLC Omega Vector
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Posted - 2011.04.10 03:17:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Jon Taggart Edited by: Jon Taggart on 10/04/2011 03:09:14
Originally by: Idami Raptor Edited by: Idami Raptor on 10/04/2011 02:56:31
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: krickettt Supported. Tired of broken features. CCP needs a new QA team as well.
Speaking of which, I heard whispers of unconfirmed rumours that CCP actually lost a noticeable portion of their former testers not so long ago (fuzzy on the details as to why though), so basically, they're running with an understaffed and overworked QA team. Would love to get an official denial of that, but appearances do lend a lot of credence to those rumours. It would certainly explain a few things.
http://www.ccpgames.com/en/jobs/job-details.aspx?jobid=239 *whistle innocently*
That job opening was posted on Feb 14th of this year. Thought I'd clarify. Not sure if that changes anything, probably not though.
Proof link.
Edit - How long have the new forums been in the making?
Given that they're a port of an existing, open source forum software and from looking at them... I'd guess about a week.
That link though illustrates something rather important: they are in fact hiring in QA, and the way they're going about doing it says a lot about how the people running the QA Department think.
For starters, they call it an 'Internship', and have it set for a short, fixed period of time with an option to double it. It's paid, though they don't say how much (that and the job title implying it's not very much). Additionally, no mention is made of the possibility of moving into a permanent position. No mention is made of benefits either.
This means one of two things: Either at least part of their QA department is made up of glorified temps, or they're doing a try it before you buy it sort of thing. Get someone in there and see how they do without a long-term commitment. Regardless of the intent, the reality is probably somewhere in the middle. They hire people but let most of them go, only hiring the ones they really like on permanently. They may in fact deliberately let some of them go afterwards because by continually hiring new temps they can pay them all peanuts, and get the work done without all the costs and strings of a real employee.
And frankly, there isn't a company in the WORLD that hires at ALL unless they're short staffed.
An exec having a large portion of QA liquidated to take the fall for his bad management would be a typical business practice too.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.04.10 03:19:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Mara Rinn on 10/04/2011 03:28:54 CCP really need to break the management fail cascade.
It is more important to keep your customers paying their subscriptions than to get new customers. Stop masturbating to the "total subscriptions" graph, start paying attention to the "cancellations" graph.
Originally by: Idami Raptor This means one of two things: Either at least part of their QA department is made up of glorified temps, or they're doing a try it before you buy it sort of thing. Get someone in there and see how they do without a long-term commitment. ... They hire people but let most of them go, only hiring the ones they really like on permanently. ...
An exec having a large portion of QA liquidated to take the fall for his bad management would be a typical business practice too.
I have seen this behavior first-hand, from a company which was run by an American used to the over-promise under-deliver, sell-at-all-costs school of management. All the people who told him the product was not fit for sale were fired (that's me and two others). After release, when it turned out the product was not fit for sale, the company folded, and the idiot in charge still blames me and two others.
So temp-hiring QA folks is an indication that they're looking for yes-men, not testers. I took my resumT to Fanfest with the intention of going home with a new job, did not apply for any jobs.
CCP, this time it is the entire player base calling you on you bulldust.
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Idami Raptor
Gallente Section Eight LLC Omega Vector
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Posted - 2011.04.10 03:26:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Mara Rinn CCP really need to break the management fail cascade.
It is more important to keep your customers paying their subscriptions than to get new customers. Stop masturbating to the "total subscriptions" graph, start paying attention to the "cancellations" graph.
If we're honest, they're both important. People are always going to leave, for one reason or another, and you have to be bringing in new people to replace them.
The key point being to build on your existing base. To my knowledge every game that's ever decided that it was more important to attract a new base than to keep their existing one has ended up going nowhere. It's very, very difficult to turn a game into a hit after launch if it isn't almost all the way there to begin with.
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Jon Taggart
State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.04.10 03:28:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Jon Taggart on 10/04/2011 03:28:50
Originally by: Idami Raptor
Originally by: Mara Rinn CCP really need to break the management fail cascade.
It is more important to keep your customers paying their subscriptions than to get new customers. Stop masturbating to the "total subscriptions" graph, start paying attention to the "cancellations" graph.
If we're honest, they're both important. People are always going to leave, for one reason or another, and you have to be bringing in new people to replace them.
The key point being to build on your existing base. To my knowledge every game that's ever decided that it was more important to attract a new base than to keep their existing one has ended up going nowhere. It's very, very difficult to turn a game into a hit after launch if it isn't almost all the way there to begin with.
Quite true. There is a statistic, but the life of me I can't locate it, that a newspaper has a better and easier chance of acquiring previous customers as opposed to brand new ones. So they devote much of their advertising in that direction. Separate fields entirely, but I think the example works just as well.
It frustrates me that I can't find that stat!
I'm not an alt |
Idami Raptor
Gallente Section Eight LLC Omega Vector
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Posted - 2011.04.10 03:34:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jon Taggart Edited by: Jon Taggart on 10/04/2011 03:28:50
Originally by: Idami Raptor
Originally by: Mara Rinn CCP really need to break the management fail cascade.
It is more important to keep your customers paying their subscriptions than to get new customers. Stop masturbating to the "total subscriptions" graph, start paying attention to the "cancellations" graph.
If we're honest, they're both important. People are always going to leave, for one reason or another, and you have to be bringing in new people to replace them.
The key point being to build on your existing base. To my knowledge every game that's ever decided that it was more important to attract a new base than to keep their existing one has ended up going nowhere. It's very, very difficult to turn a game into a hit after launch if it isn't almost all the way there to begin with.
Quite true. There is a statistic, but the life of me I can't locate it, that a newspaper has a better and easier chance of acquiring previous customers as opposed to brand new ones. So they devote much of their advertising in that direction. Separate fields entirely, but I think the example works just as well.
It frustrates me that I can't find that stat!
My father used to be customer service manager at a major US Newspaper, and he once told me about something he'd seen that indicated that people who had a problem and then had a good experience with customer service were more loyal than if they'd never had a problem at all.
He also mentioned that the booth sales department I worked for at one time had been shut down because they mostly just sold people subscriptions with a super good deal, and then they'd cancel once the deal ran out. Some of them would do this over and over again, cancelling their subscription every time the deal ran out and then signing up again at another of our booths that they found.
They came to the conclusion that those deals were thusly a lot of junk and stopped offering them, and then all of a sudden the booth sales department was doing jack all so they got rid of them.
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Jon Taggart
State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.04.10 03:55:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Jon Taggart on 10/04/2011 03:55:35 Thanks for the discussion. I quite enjoyed it.
Edit - Forgot to give my thumbs up.
I'm not an alt |
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2011.04.10 04:20:00 -
[11]
haven't we been trying to tell them this for a while now?
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Raydn James
Secret Squirrel Readiness Group Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.04.10 04:22:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Raydn James on 10/04/2011 04:23:34 5 years in and 2 accounts.
I'm not a big fish by any means, but I'm pretty much done with this game. Which is a shame because it's the best game I've ever played.
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Calathea Sata
State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.04.10 04:24:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton haven't we been trying to tell them this for a while now?
Indeed we are
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Idami Raptor
Gallente Section Eight LLC Omega Vector
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Posted - 2011.04.10 04:28:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Idami Raptor on 10/04/2011 04:34:44 Something that just occured to me... earlier someone, I think Akita, said something to the effect that it was about two or three years ago when the signs of the management problems started to appear.
Now read this...surprisingly google did a pretty good job with this one.
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vb.is%2Ffrett%2F9841%2F
in 2008, CCP sold a whole bunch of new shares to raise money to help fund Dust, and the major listed owners include a US based investment company and a UK based investment company run by Iceland's lone billionare whose true owners hide behind shell companies...
Given the timing one has to wonder if the root of the problem isn't the company's management but its OWNERSHIP!
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Lucia Sarain
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.04.10 05:37:00 -
[15]
Not supported, i want them to Deliver not listen to burned out old ****ers who can't let go of the game and who think just because it's no longer fun for them it's over for everybody.
What I wish CCP would do is every time someone makes a public "i quit" post on the fourm, their characters are biomassed by a GM when the subscription runs out. But that's just a dream of mine.
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Idami Raptor
Gallente Section Eight LLC Omega Vector
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Posted - 2011.04.10 05:56:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Lucia Sarain Not supported, i want them to Deliver not listen to burned out old ****ers who can't let go of the game and who think just because it's no longer fun for them it's over for everybody.
What I wish CCP would do is every time someone makes a public "i quit" post on the fourm, their characters are biomassed by a GM when the subscription runs out. But that's just a dream of mine.
So...you say you want CCP to deliver, yet you troll a thread asking them to deliver instead of just saying they do?
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Erid Tangor
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Posted - 2011.04.10 05:59:00 -
[17]
Supported. For reals.
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Elaine McMenace
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Posted - 2011.04.10 06:00:00 -
[18]
My thoughts exactly.
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Ruziel
Twilight Military Industrial Complex
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Posted - 2011.04.10 06:08:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Akita T
Learn from your mistakes, CCP. It's not too late to alter this self-destructive new policy. STOP RUSHING OUT UNPOLISHED JUNK AND FOCUS ON FIXING WHAT'S BROKEN BEFORE PROCEEDING.
So much this. The batch of "little" fixes was one of the best things introduced in a patch for quite some time. Now if you would only give the S&I interface some polish for Matar's sake.
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Kenpachi Viktor
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2011.04.10 06:22:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Mortania
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: krickettt Supported. Tired of broken features. CCP needs a new QA team as well.
Speaking of which, I heard whispers of unconfirmed rumours that CCP actually lost a noticeable portion of their former testers not so long ago (fuzzy on the details as to why though), so basically, they're running with an understaffed and overworked QA team. Would love to get an official denial of that, but appearances do lend a lot of credence to those rumours. It would certainly explain a few things.
I've been thinking about this... I'm not going to blame QA anymore.
We've seen that when people do point out problems with features that they are ignored and pushed through anyway (and you might get a ban on top of it).
This is a management problem. A lack of resolve to quality.
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Aineko Macx
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Posted - 2011.04.10 06:25:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mara Rinn So temp-hiring QA folks is an indication that they're looking for yes-men, not testers. I took my resumT to Fanfest with the intention of going home with a new job, did not apply for any jobs.
So did I, but all they told me was, apply for the position posted at the site... They weren't making an effort to get people really. Even if they did, I wouldn't have signed, because working as an overqualified, underpaid intern with no securities in a frozen ****hole is not my thing. It's bad enough they tricked me into coming to fanfest
Saying yes to the N-th wakeup call thread. ________________________ CCP: Where fixing bugs is a luxury, not an obligation. |
Guilliman R
Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.04.10 07:39:00 -
[22]
Hell yes. CCP is starting to look like EA before their image review. Raping everything they get their hands on for quick return.
I've got myself a deadline; I'll wait till summer (august) and if by then the most glaring issues aren't solved (hybrids, gallente, OP 1400's (seriously, arty abbadons!???), Stupid OP Supers that make all caps obsolete. Industry changes (UI..)) I'll just find a new game to play, or focus more on studying physics. I can only wait so long.
I really hate EA for ruining so many cool universes, now ccp is doing the same thing. It's the exact same path they're taking.
------
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Zaqar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2011.04.10 07:40:00 -
[23]
--
Originally by: Brian Ballsack please learn to use english if your gonna post
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.04.10 07:42:00 -
[24]
no
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Gistatis Tribunus
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Posted - 2011.04.10 07:46:00 -
[25]
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.04.10 08:04:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 10/04/2011 08:11:08 Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 10/04/2011 08:06:20
Originally by: Akita T
Speaking of which, I heard whispers of unconfirmed rumours that CCP actually lost a noticeable portion of their former testers not so long ago (fuzzy on the details as to why though), so basically, they're running with an understaffed and overworked QA team. Would love to get an official denial of that, but appearances do lend a lot of credence to those rumours. It would certainly explain a few things.
If you head over the ex CCP employees blog, you'll see ALL of them agreeing that CCP internal communication is their Achille's heel, that teams act like they live in a "void" with little interaction between them and several other curiosities.
I was considering asking for a job @CCP as Economist helper or even as coder but the wages seem horripilant and their pension system is not integrated or compatible with anything yet it requires an amount of (10 iirc) years just to make you eligible to get it.
Originally by: Akita T
Subscriber count graphs available in the QENs. http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/QEN/QEN_Q4-2010.pdf On page 8 of 52. And my mistake, when I said "didn't get steeper", what I meant to say was "it got less steep". http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7402/evesubscribers.jpg Including rough linear approximation from the moment it became "somewhat popular".
Here's my MS Paint approximation about the next months in EvE's subscriptions market, even if CCP changed their ways and approach to quality (players discontent inertia):
As you can see the trend is exhausting (increasing volatility on the upper graph). The yellow lines show the slope changes in the "123 zig zag", the cyan are some areas of support or resistance. and getting more "whipsawing" which is another sign of trend exhaustion.
This trend will peak either at the current high or a next lower high (not drawn) then there will be a sharp drop down to the lower support. It will break because we will be in summer (low subs period of the year) and an even sharper drop will happen.
After a rebounce (typical bottom W formation), IF CCP changed their ways, they will slowly begin rising up (red line). If they stay as is, we'll see a further drop (blue line) to dynamic support and then who knows.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Axon Atom
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Posted - 2011.04.10 08:17:00 -
[27]
riiiiight
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DeBingJos
Weirdo Asylum
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Posted - 2011.04.10 08:28:00 -
[28]
Supported! |
Calistai Huranu
Red Federation
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Posted - 2011.04.10 09:01:00 -
[29]
Supported.
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Ifly Uwalk
Empire Tax Collection Agency
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Posted - 2011.04.10 09:05:00 -
[30]
+1
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Tasha Voronina
Caldari Navy Reserve Force
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Posted - 2011.04.10 09:06:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Guilliman R
Hell yes. CCP is starting to look like EA before their image review. Raping everything they get their hands on for quick return.
I've got myself a deadline; I'll wait till summer (august) and if by then the most glaring issues aren't solved (hybrids, gallente, OP 1400's (seriously, arty abbadons!???), Stupid OP Supers that make all caps obsolete. Industry changes (UI..)) I'll just find a new game to play, or focus more on studying physics. I can only wait so long.
I really hate EA for ruining so many cool universes, now ccp is doing the same thing. It's the exact same path they're taking.
A bit frightening how much this represents my own view, really.
Let's just hope that after the n-th time, they listen. Statistics/past experience suggest otherwise, but here's to that thing, hope. --- Sig will be updated shortly |
Idami Raptor
Gallente Section Eight LLC Omega Vector
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Posted - 2011.04.10 09:30:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Idami Raptor on 10/04/2011 09:30:08
Originally by: Tasha Voronina
Originally by: Guilliman R
Hell yes. CCP is starting to look like EA before their image review. Raping everything they get their hands on for quick return.
I've got myself a deadline; I'll wait till summer (august) and if by then the most glaring issues aren't solved (hybrids, gallente, OP 1400's (seriously, arty abbadons!???), Stupid OP Supers that make all caps obsolete. Industry changes (UI..)) I'll just find a new game to play, or focus more on studying physics. I can only wait so long.
I really hate EA for ruining so many cool universes, now ccp is doing the same thing. It's the exact same path they're taking.
A bit frightening how much this represents my own view, really.
Let's just hope that after the n-th time, they listen. Statistics/past experience suggest otherwise, but here's to that thing, hope.
Depends on how far up the chain it is. If it's a guy somewhere in the middle sooner or later he won't be able to scapegoat or spin the numbers or anything, and it'll come back to him.
If it's someone at the top...it might come back to them only in the form of the company going down in flames.
Trying to get an exec like that to see reason is much like trying to reason with a conspiracy theorist. They're so dead on certain that they're right that they just discount anything you say that contradicts them.
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Dhaaran
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Posted - 2011.04.10 09:36:00 -
[33]
i kind of doubt it is related to the new share owners as posted above - afterall those were issued to fund dust514 (along with lots of money from eve ...) - meaning someone was already losing touch to the player base. anyway, i support akitas proposal.
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Ed Rush
Erasers inc. Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.04.10 09:38:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Ed Rush on 10/04/2011 09:42:34
Originally by: Akita T
statistics can be fooled. for example, if they count in the accounts that have received some kind of free gametime. how many would have just clicked on a email to reactivate for free?
plus.. do they count in the trial accounts which playtime last 14days?
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Bhattran
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Posted - 2011.04.10 09:59:00 -
[35]
Supported for the brief time CCP might listen before reverting back to stupid business logic that ignores common sense about this basic idea.
Papa don't preach, I've been losing sleep But I made up my mind, I'm keeping my baby, oh I'm gonna keep my baby, mmm... |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
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Posted - 2011.04.10 10:09:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Akita T TO SUPPORT THIS THREAD'S IDEA, CLICK THE "Check here if you want to give your support to the idea/discussion going on" CHECKBOX UNDER YOUR POST TEXT INPUT BOX. It's right below "Check here to preview your post" and right below the character selection and "Post Reply" button.
If you forgot to do it at first, you can edit your post to select that too.
Not supported as your ridiculous arrogance is too overbearing
--------------
? |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2011.04.10 10:47:00 -
[37]
Can't do anything but support this. Any feature, new or old, is pretty worthless if it isn't good enough or doesn't work properly. It also greatly decreases the players enjoyment of the game, makes them look for other things to do and diminshes their trust in CCP's capability to deliver on any future feature/iteration of an old feature.
You aren't developing games in a void. You can either deliver competative features and gameplay experiences or you're going to get stomped on by the competition. CCP's attitude of "It doesn't matter if it's crap now, we can iterate on it later" is damaging the game. They simply don't ever iterate or develop their features to full potential. They do some basic bug fixing and usability tweaks and call it a day and move on to develop the next half finished feature. You're left with a game where there are tons of things to do, but everything is a bit lackluster, unbalanced and under developed or has obvious content holes.
Lately there have been signs that all of this might be changing, but the new forum fiasco shows that it might have been just a reaction to the complaints and subscription losses of last year instead of an actual change in development philosphy and thinking in CCP leadership.
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Oriana Mortuney
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Posted - 2011.04.10 11:05:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Oriana Mortuney on 10/04/2011 11:05:04 Supported, new forums were a joke, one that seems to be old at CCP.
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Emperor Ryan
The Illuminatii Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2011.04.10 11:25:00 -
[39]
Agreed, Also the new forums, Are they kidding, has issues with Firefox (eve gate does as a whole) And the new forums were very unsafe in the basic writing up of them and barley any smartphone capability? really? - Emperor
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2011.04.10 11:26:00 -
[40]
And there I was thinking CCP learned from the "18 months" communication fail".
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Tsubutai
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2011.04.10 11:27:00 -
[41]
.
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Phocas Lebournes
Northbridge Services Group
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Posted - 2011.04.10 11:31:00 -
[42]
Hell yeah! Thumbs up!
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El Lion
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Posted - 2011.04.10 11:35:00 -
[43]
+1
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Akiba Penrose
Banana Airlines
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Posted - 2011.04.10 11:38:00 -
[44]
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Meridith Akesia
Stimulus
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Posted - 2011.04.10 11:48:00 -
[45]
Akita T makes a post. Incoming threadnaught.
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Dogo Duma
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Posted - 2011.04.10 11:49:00 -
[46]
ETA until the next discrete offer from EA?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.10 11:49:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Akita T on 10/04/2011 11:50:49
Originally by: Ed Rush
Originally by: Akita T http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7402/evesubscribers.jpg
statistics can be fooled. for example, if they count in the accounts that have received some kind of free gametime. how many would have just clicked on a email to reactivate for free? plus.. do they count in the trial accounts which playtime last 14days?
That graph allegedly contains only paid-for active subs. Trial accounts and expired accounts not counted.
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Here's my MS Paint approximation about the next months in EvE's subscriptions market, even if CCP changed their ways and approach to quality (players discontent inertia):
http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/2381/futuresubsu.jpg
As you can see the trend is exhausting (increasing volatility on the upper graph). The yellow lines show the slope changes in the "123 zig zag", the cyan are some areas of support or resistance. and getting more "whipsawing" which is another sign of trend exhaustion.
This trend will peak either at the current high or a next lower high (not drawn) then there will be a sharp drop down to the lower support. It will break because we will be in summer (low subs period of the year) and an even sharper drop will happen.
After a rebounce (typical bottom W formation), IF CCP changed their ways, they will slowly begin rising up (red line). If they stay as is, we'll see a further drop (blue line) to dynamic support and then who knows.
I'm almost hoping you're not right...
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts _
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Kyo Haku
Gradient
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 11:57:00 -
[48]
Supported. I came to this game because it was far more "finished" and stable than any MMO I've played before. I don't want it to lose that. -- "Far be it from me to stand in judgment. I prefer to sit." -Stephen Colbert |
Ed Rush
Erasers inc. Controlled Chaos
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 11:59:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 10/04/2011 11:50:49
Originally by: Ed Rush
Originally by: Akita T Fancy graph
blab ablablaa
That graph allegedly contains only paid-for active subs. Trial accounts and expired accounts not counted.
allegedly
:)
|
Bomberlocks
CTRL-Q
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 12:04:00 -
[50]
Free Cat!
|
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Halcyon Ingenium
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 12:06:00 -
[51]
I support the idea in OP. I don't have much else to say, other than that I was (unfortunately) correct about them forcing us out of our pods, which I don't like. Not at all. By the way, real men biomass when they emoragequit.
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Gnulpie
Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 12:14:00 -
[52]
Yes, very much agreed.
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CruxArc
Black Souls Industries
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 12:17:00 -
[53]
Edited by: CruxArc on 10/04/2011 12:19:11 Agree.
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Feone
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 12:17:00 -
[54]
CCP will you ever learn, or maybe it is the players that should learn and just dump you once and for all.
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EnderCapitalG
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 12:23:00 -
[55]
I, too, am gay.
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Anddeh McNab
Cadre Assault Force
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 12:24:00 -
[56]
I find myself in the unfortunate position of agreeing with the mass of idiots. I've defended alot of CCP's decisions, like the whole 18 month thing, but for the sake of us all please do some security checking next time. There are two sides to the EVE community; those that scream for change and those that scream against it. Often they are the same person. |
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 12:25:00 -
[57]
Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame. |
Turix
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 12:28:00 -
[58]
Its sad when a developer doesn't understand what their game is about; stop taking us in the wrong directly and doing it in the wrong way. Please! __________________________
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Slade Hoo
Retired Gunslingers
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 12:33:00 -
[59]
Supporting a great insight!
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Robdon
Darkwave Technologies Initiative Mercenaries
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 12:34:00 -
[60]
Agreed.
Unfortunately though, it seems to be a growing trend that companies don't listen to their customers, or even their lower ranking staff members, and just seem to blindly carry on with their 'management' view of the world :(
|
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Sevarus James
Meridian Dynamics
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 12:41:00 -
[61]
+1 Updated Arch64 Compiz-Linux Desktop Who is John Galt? |
William Henry McGregor
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 12:48:00 -
[62]
Edited by: William Henry McGregor on 10/04/2011 12:48:10
Originally by: Idami Raptor Edited by: Idami Raptor on 10/04/2011 04:34:44 Something that just occured to me... earlier someone, I think Akita, said something to the effect that it was about two or three years ago when the signs of the management problems started to appear.
Now read this...surprisingly google did a pretty good job with this one.
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vb.is%2Ffrett%2F9841%2F
in 2008, CCP sold a whole bunch of new shares to raise money to help fund Dust, and the major listed owners include a US based investment company and a UK based investment company run by Iceland's lone billionare whose true owners hide behind shell companies...
Given the timing one has to wonder if the root of the problem isn't the company's management but its OWNERSHIP!
This is the solution to the current problems of CCP/the game Never let any "investors" in, NEVER! Stay small and deliver on your promises - don't let yourself be fscked by greedy capitalists!
The future of EVE Online looks very dark
EVE Online: Vision - great Delivery - what delivery?!
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JitaPriceChecker2
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 13:00:00 -
[63]
SUPPORT.
LOOK CCP HOW WHEN YOU GAVE GOOD QUALITY EXPANSION AKA APOCRYPHA AND WHAT IT DID TO YOUR SUBSCRIPTION NUMBERS.
Now go compare numbers to your failed 3 lastest expansions.
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Stark Thunder
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 13:03:00 -
[64]
+1
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Finarfin
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 13:03:00 -
[65]
I support this notion.
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Rixiu
The Inuits
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 13:11:00 -
[66]
Supportin tis.
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Dasola
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 13:12:00 -
[67]
Yes i do suport this with all my 6 accounts... Fix the old, broken and half functional stuff please.
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Jame Jarl Retief
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 13:14:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Jame Jarl Retief on 10/04/2011 13:14:45 Excellent post, and I echo it wholeheartedly.
However, at this stage, I must be realistic. They HAVE to release Incarna this summer, even if it is just CQ. They have to. They spent way too much time and money on it already to scrap it now. Otherwise it is in risk of becoming a never-ending vicious cycle. By the time they improve and polish it, what they improved is now outdated and needs further improvement, and by then it is outdated again. We saw this in Darkfall - by the time the game finally "released", if that's the right word, it was still badly outdated in every respect.
What I would settle for, and even be happy with, is them wrapping up Incarna (both CQ and stations) within this calendar year. Just release it, such as it is, and forget about it. CCP just doesn't have the resources or manpower to turn that part of the game into a full-fledged sci-fi sim. There's no shame in that, you can't be everything to everybody.
And then the rushed releases of new stuff need to be stopped. New stuff, period, needs to be stopped. Including DUST (how anyone can think that game will do well ON CONSOLES is beyond me). Focus on the game itself, focus on fixing stuff that's been broken for a long, long time.
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Jno Aubrey
Galactic Patrol
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 13:19:00 -
[69]
I must agree.
EVE is suffering terribly from poor management. As someone who has managed groups of deveopers in the past, I understand that herding cats is sheer simplicity in comparison. But it is a job that MUST be done, and competently.
CCP, your management of the software development process, from A to Z, is terrible. No, worse than terrible - it is embarrassing. Stop breaking things that work. Go back and document your code base. Get your developers to re-use objects instead of building new ones from scratch every time. Go fix the things you have broken before you start making new things.
You are on a downward path that will lead to your inevitable demise and I enjoy this game too much to want that to happen!
__________________________________________________ Name a shrub after me; something prickly and hard to eradicate. |
Raid'En
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 13:20:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Raid''En on 10/04/2011 13:21:19
as someone who have cancelled his account a few times, and came back a few times, i'm sure of one thing : the new toys are often a good idea to come back to the game and pay 1 month of suscription... BUT they are NOT enough to make us pay for the next month if they are not finished.
cause when you come back to see something new who looks cool, you're still gonna look at others things, and remember how awful where some others things who needed fixes. and there's even more risk that after a few days / weeks you realize the new features who looked so cool is not that cool, and it would have been better waiting more before releasing it.
btw tell me if i'm wrong, but we never asked for new forums right ? we may have asked for improving current one, but never asked for changing all things, moreover to something most people don't like at all... and i didn't even talked about the bugs here.
ps : i'm waiting for captain quarter on the TEST server, but i'm not waiting AT ALL for it to go on LIVE server. i'm just curious, and want to see if it's really without any interest as i though, or if i was wrong. however i would be way more interested by seeing a real incarna, WITH REAL USEFUL FEATURES, appearing. the CQ we don't care about, for us it's just an idea of what the future real thing could be. CQ is a little toy, that's all. give it some useful features that we don't really have if you want results on long term. if not, you'll only see numbers improving on the 1st month, and that's all. ---------------- ** Wormhole Trading ** |
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Nimbat
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 13:26:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Nimbat on 10/04/2011 13:26:01 The trees are swaying in the chants of tibetan monks, screeching little kids flying in the ocean without constraint. This is where we are. This is where there are no rocks and pebbles.
The wood in the bike is not stolen, for he who shall yield will be oppressed. Depression. Intolerance. Words of strenght and glory of days long lost and forgotten.
The echoes in our mind is calling us. A single entity made of rust and dust. It is here now. We can feel it.
Times are changing. Mark our word.
-Doomsday Prophet Nimbat.
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Azureite
Special Forces Operation Detachment Delta The 0rphanage
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 13:27:00 -
[72]
Akita T speaks the truth. I cannot possibly agree more.
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Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 13:28:00 -
[73]
I approve!
The development of the game has reached a point where you cant just "fix" major concepts with little changes to this and that. CCP you need to at least listen to what your players are saying, if needs be setup small 'councils' for 0.0/low sec/empire etc that you can have a chat with and see what's going on (don't fly them out to Iceland but at least talk to them).
If you keep going down this route you are going to rapidly start losing the older players and that might end up working its way back into the e-press, do we really need to remind you what happened when you asked for the best game of 2010 votes or whatever it was?
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Jmarr Hyrgund
The Bastards
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 13:40:00 -
[74]
Commitment to Excellence Mk 2, Lets push this all the way.
Pirate - Blogger - Rifter Pilot |
BlankStare
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 13:42:00 -
[75]
Yes, Yes, Yes, and Yes.
CCP is not 10 guys in an attic anymore, CCP is a 600 employee multinational company. Its time they started acting like one.
Less vision, more sight. One of the many faces of Mandrill @Mandrill - Website email |
Degara Farat
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 13:52:00 -
[76]
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NuclearBlue
Firebird Squadron Terra-Incognita
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 13:55:00 -
[77]
I support this proposal!
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released Merciless.
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 14:06:00 -
[78]
that approximation-graph is kinda scary
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Nikita Alterana
Risen Angels
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 14:14:00 -
[79]
Akita and Calathea are absolutely right on all accounts. CCP is being monumentally stupid and is throwing away everything they have built. If they don't step back from the edge of the cliff now then it won't matter if they don't jump off it, it won't matter if they plan on backing up later, because the cliff face is going to give way and everything is going to come crashing down.
I love eve, I have eve tattoos, I want to see eve continue for years and years and years. I want to be able to introduce my kids to this game. I want it to have the longevity and the vision and the expansiveness that made me love this game in the first place...but no. No, CCP would rather follow the stupid, stupid market trend data from other MMOs, most of which FAILED by the way, and push out crappy new content to try to get more people at the expense of those who stayed with them and supported them from the beginning.
Eve is not like other MMOs, EVE's community is different. EVE is different. We don't need shiny new features to keep us happy. We don't need new stuff to keep having fun. EVE has no max level. EVE has no top tier epic gear. We the players are capable of keeping ourselves busy without new things to play with. Fix the stuff that needs fixing. Take the time to iterate upon all the stuff you've introduced. Where are other T3s? Where are the fix to Factional Warfare? Where is the industrial expansion? Where is the blaster rebalance? Why hasn't the dead horse POS thread been applied yet?
Your game is dying on the vine while you try to expand your vineyard. Stop focusing on growth. Make a good game and it will grow. Watch Eve Never Fades, remember when that was what you committed to? When your trailers were proud to be made using actual gameplay? When you showed eve as it was, instead of some tarted up studio gimmick?
You don't need to expand the game in the way you are. Look at factional warfare. What did it add to the game? It was a big deal, and you put so much effort and marketing into it to try and get people interested in eve and provide a quick injection to your subscriber base. But that didn't work. Because you didn't tend to faction warfare and take care of it. I doubt you could fix it now if you tried. It is a dead feature. Incursions are going the same way. They are something that absolutely just didn't need to be in the game. They don't add to the game what the game needs. They clutter it. You're taking a beautiful idea, and covering it with clutter and unnecessary additions.
Here is something that needs to happen now. Every time a new expansion comes out. CCP needs to plan ahead to take care of the features they release, and monitor them, and iterate upon them, and build upon them. For years until people stop complaining about it and start asking for new features. If CCP can't commit to taking care of their existing features, then they shouldn't be adding more. This is like parenting 101, its not rocket surgery.
Turn back CCP, before its too late.
Nikita's Graphic Arts Studio
|
Holy One
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 14:17:00 -
[80]
with respect Akita, I think you are preaching to the choir.
the reality is the internal structure of ccp; notably fail management heirarchy based on being a 'cool dude' and 'nordic' and a lack of business wide unified development approach (too many side projects and scrum nonsense) juxtaposed with 'vision' which is neither particularily realistic or technologically viable with the current codebase.
I'm afraid its as good as it gets. tbh when everyone has a carrier in 18 months time I'm pretty sure not even incarna (whatever confused jew-manji that was ever supposed to be) will reverse the trend long term.
start looking forward to wod in approx 18 years time.
light a candle for eve if you want; but you really need to accept ccp doesnt have the will or the financial backing to do what needs to be done - completely revise the codebase and entertain the prospect of a top-down business wide clear out. even if they could raise the cash to hire 500 more specialists nobody wants to live in iceland and work for peanuts and the subscriber base propping it all up won't tolerate any major rebalancing of the economy or the core mechanics. all the managers in the mmo industry are profit focussed and arguably such a radical change in corporate culture would only hasten the demise of ccp as a private company anyway.
moaning about half arsed rc's might make you popular on the forums - but I'm sure pretty much everyone in the trenches at ccp knows what the issues are.
BBQ makes me hungry for more... |
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Mashie Saldana
Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 14:17:00 -
[81]
I think CCP's new mantra should be Deliver Excellence, not one or the other.
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Sir Rush
Sirrush Holdings And Industries Inc.
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 14:17:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Sir Rush on 10/04/2011 14:17:53 Yeeeessss.
CCP, spend a few expansion cycles iterating (PROPERLY ITERATING) and fixing your existing content, rather than pumping out big, useless, bug-ridden features.
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fire elf
Solar Storm Sev3rance
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Posted - 2011.04.10 14:18:00 -
[83]
I agree on what is being said here
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Marley Browning
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 14:19:00 -
[84]
YESSSS! Yelling at ccp for their inconsistent product is the new botting/rmt/projectiles/mission-nerf! Finally were gonna see some progresss!
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Di Mulle
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 14:23:00 -
[85]
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d4shing
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 14:24:00 -
[86]
Two months left on my last subscription crew, checking in.
One thing I'd like to point out is that the problem with the forums is not that not enough time has been spent on them. They've been in progress since, what, October? We were told they'd come out in February? They beta'd around then? Twice? And I believe this is a team of 10 people.
That many dev hours is plenty of time.
The problem is that CCP is terrible at project management. They're terrible at running a business.
I think the best thing that can happen to this game is that CCP runs out of money and its investors/creditors force a sale to EA, who ****cans everyone, moves development away from an icy rock in the middle of nowhere to a place where actual talented programmers live voluntarily, and successfully employs even the most rudimentary planning and ROI methodologies.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 14:39:00 -
[87]
Originally by: d4shing I think the best thing that can happen to this game is that CCP runs out of money and its investors/creditors force a sale to EA
Ouch, harsh... _
CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE. |
FishermansFriend
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 14:41:00 -
[88]
Edited by: FishermansFriend on 10/04/2011 14:41:22
Originally by: d4shing Two months left on my last subscription crew, checking in.
One thing I'd like to point out is that the problem with the forums is not that not enough time has been spent on them. They've been in progress since, what, October? We were told they'd come out in February? They beta'd around then? Twice? And I believe this is a team of 10 people.
That many dev hours is plenty of time.
The problem is that CCP is terrible at project management. They're terrible at running a business.
I think the best thing that can happen to this game is that CCP runs out of money and its investors/creditors force a sale to EA, who ****cans everyone, moves development away from an icy rock in the middle of nowhere to a place where actual talented programmers live voluntarily, and successfully employs even the most rudimentary planning and ROI methodologies.
Or, CCP smartens up and keep's the old feel of a small company putting out a great product while still making a massive, great MMO. Perhaps their "Eve Future" gets delayed by a couple years but at least at that time they will have a happy player base willing to tell their friends about what will be the greatest MMO ever. I would love to see some dev's or something post in threads like this to show CCP is taking a stance on the issue. I dont think they do this enough and it feels like they don't want to acknowledge their recent incompetence as an issue even if thats not what they mean to do.
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Bisclavret Lais
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 14:45:00 -
[89]
+1 |
northwesten
Trinity Corporate Services Quantum Forge
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 14:46:00 -
[90]
------------------------------------
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mvrck22
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 14:51:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: d4shing I think the best thing that can happen to this game is that CCP runs out of money and its investors/creditors force a sale to EA
Ouch, harsh...
Afaik EA tried once. Didn't happen.
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Ed Rush
Erasers inc. Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.04.10 14:57:00 -
[92]
If they'd believe in EVE, wouldn't they be rewriting it instead of Incarna. In my opinion the Incarna tech they're developing is primarily for the World of Darkness MMO and of course they're making it on EVE's expense.
I really do hope World of Darkness ends up like the WoW clones that didn't make profit.
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Xydros
Veto.
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 15:00:00 -
[93]
I think we can agree that most of the incarna pieces delivered so far have been crap out of the gate... including the character creator which has been mostly fixed.
But still CCP continues to feed us crap, and then "iterate" on crap until it tastes less like crap.
I'm tired of crap.
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Naya Sky
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 15:03:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Naya Sky on 10/04/2011 15:03:18 I think that EVE has tremendous amount of potential and practically limitless possibilities for expansion of the EVE universe. But at the same time EVE has an enormous amount of flaws. It seems that CCP is really focused on delivering new features... but without a solid foundation and care the potential of EVE is being wasted.
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Jon Taggart
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 15:03:00 -
[95]
Are people expecting CCP to do a full reverse and work on the backlog? What do you think the chances of this occurring are if they're "full steam ahead" on Incarna?
What happens if we're all proven wrong and the "vision" CCP has touted does indeed garner large amounts of subscribers? Will players admit they were wrong? Or will they continue to say that CCP is moving in the wrong direction?
It seems easy to predict what could happen in the coming weeks and months.
Step 1: New forums back up and running with security loophole fixed sans aesthetic changes or other suggestions players have supplied. Step 2: Threadnaughts about CCP's lack of commitment listening to player feedback. Most likely spead-headed by Akita. Step 3: CCP eventually makes some of the changes called for by the players. Step 4: Threadnaughts created saying it's too late and these changes should have been made some time ago. Players will enjoy the new changes regardless. Step 5: CCP releases Captain's Quarters on Sisi Step 6: Threadnaughts created detailing CCPs lack of committment to the "core" aspects of EVE and Walking in Stations is not the future of the game. Step 7: CCP offers their reasoning as to why they believe it is, players disagree. Step 8: CCP does a slow roll-out of Incarna beginning with Captain's Quarters. Step 9: Players respond with, "That's it?" when they should have seen this coming with the implementation method of Incursion. Threadnaughts generated about waiting so long for so little. Step 10a: Incarna allows players to physically see the avatar they create, fulfilling the basic psychological need of attaching to a human face/form/familiarity. EVE is now touted as the full sci-fi experience, subs increase dramatically. Vets will dislike the attitudes/opinions of incoming players, threadnaughts generate about CCP's shift in management and design doctrine, not conducive to quality spaceshippy game. Step 10b: Incarna is an utter failure, next Age of Shadows or New Game Experience debacle. Players on the "right (correct)" side do not hesitate to point out they were right, and will show CCP where exactly things went wrong, even though it's far too late. Happy to see they're correct and accepted, but without a spaceship game they call home. Leave. Threadnaughts generated lamenting of the past, how great things were, how great they could have been, and asking for suggestions on another game to play. Perhaps World of Tanks. Step 11: Life goes on. Step 12: People will think I'm a troll or a moron for writing this or providing a "disagreeable" view against the norm of this thread. Step 13: Life goes on!
//For fun and to stir the pot.
I'm not an alt |
Velicitia
Open Designs
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 15:05:00 -
[96]
Originally by: d4shing
I think the best thing that can happen to this game is that CCP runs out of money and its investors/creditors force a sale to EA,
extremely harsh... by this time, EVE as whole will be long since dead, and the only pilots in space will be Chribba and his alts...
I wholeheartedly agree with Akita and the fact that we need less new shiny (unless ofc, WE are making it in our sandbox, and using it to blow up the other guy )
CCP --> you have done a great job getting us a game outside the mainstream of WOW and its predecessors/clones. You have to keep this up, but not through the addition of crap features that you leave to die.
*some* of the fail of your new features can be attributed to going completely against the general rules of EVE -- mayhap you should re-read them.
Rules of EVE (as I understand them):
0. Trust no one, not even your alts -- they're all out to get you 1. If you can't afford to insure it, you can't afford to fly it 2. Trust no one 3. If it's too good to be true, it's probably a scam 4. That guy who's "quitting" and will give you 3x what you gave him won't ?. TRUST NO ONE (you see the pattern here?)
FW and Incursions --> wait what, I'm now suddenly supposed to trust that the guy in a BS I've never flown with is *NOT* going to OMGWTFPWN my logistics cruiser??? Really??? (might not be so much FW though, was busy doing other stuff when that came about..)
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Ed Rush
Erasers inc. Controlled Chaos
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 15:07:00 -
[97]
Maybe CCP thinks that EVE is the perfect beta testing framework for other projects.
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DJ DeLaMuerta
Weird Science Inc.
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 15:26:00 -
[98]
+1
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Viceroy Fugly
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 15:43:00 -
[99]
supported
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Misaki Yuuko
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 15:44:00 -
[100]
CCP going downhill nonshocker.
What CCP REALLY needs is some competition, unfortunatlly there is none for their niche market share.
Supported anyway.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 15:48:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Jon Taggart Are people expecting CCP to do a full reverse and work on the backlog?
Not really. But some more attention to it would be nice. And some decent QA work before anything goes live is a must.
Quote: What happens if we're all proven wrong and the "vision" CCP has touted does indeed garner large amounts of subscribers?
IF this happens while the EVE of that day is still recognizably similar to the EVE we have today, then I would be content. Not happy, but content. Problem is, from where I'm standing, I don't think we're going to get there if things keep happening the way they seem to be happening more often in the more or less recent past.
_
CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE. |
Sandrestal
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 15:49:00 -
[102]
Since when has CCP ever "listened" ? A constant barrage of new ideas and schemes being implented only to be nerfed 6 months later shows a certain lack of forward thinking. What is worse are the instances where the player base warned CCP that what they are doing is wrong and then were proven right. Anyways, good post Akita
|
Yagen
Sense of Serendipity Echoes of Nowhere
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 15:56:00 -
[103]
Supported. |
Kristina Vanszar
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 15:59:00 -
[104]
The Chart provieded by Akita is pretty much what will happen, as i know from the stock market, two big spikes like you see at the end of CCPs chart and the beggining of Akits is a signal for a big drop.
Fully supported!
|
Adrian Idaho
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 16:00:00 -
[105]
The idea of this thread has my absolute support.
|
Inka Kaoru
Perkone
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 16:05:00 -
[106]
Sub canceled, but still supporting.
|
Sanphesta
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 16:12:00 -
[107]
fully supported
|
Pax Ratlin
Metalworks Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 16:24:00 -
[108]
CCP's attitude and behaviour surrounding 1.4 just proves to me how much lip service they are paying to their customers and the game.
They'd rather forge ahead in their own direction and damn everyone else, which would be fine except THEY took steps towards player involvement in the development process.
Either use the CSM or lose it CCP.
|
Ren Nekk
Dead Eye Dogs
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 16:26:00 -
[109]
I am not by any means a true old-school player, but I have been playing with many accounts for about 2 years now and I have consistently kept up with the forums and various other sorts of EVE-news. As a result, I have a lot of respect for the (older) EVE community and comparatively less respect for CCP.
I really don't want to have to think about canceling my accounts anywhere down the line, but undoubtedly I will if EVE loses the bulk of its most important player base - those people who have been with it for years, perhaps from the beginning, and care greatly for the game as a whole - not those who have wandered here looking for their next MMO fix, which undoubtedly EVE will satisfy for a year or two, before they cancel and move on to something else.
So yeah, supported.
|
W3370Pi4
Lamb Federation Navy
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 16:27:00 -
[110]
i support this
======================= The "Character Market" Channel Featured on Eveboard.com ( Chribba's Website for Character show room ) http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Character_Market =======================
|
|
Character Name Redacted
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 16:32:00 -
[111]
Supported. Of course, how can you NOT support this?
|
Frecator Dementa
Perkone
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 16:36:00 -
[112]
2/3 subs cancelled, but supported
Fix 'dem darn papercuts ! ---- <sig goes here> |
Sloshyblooms
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 16:42:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Sloshyblooms on 10/04/2011 16:42:34 Supported. Half-baked "shiny" new stuff makes me consider leaving Eve. Eve is fun but unfinished content tends to cancel a bunch of that out. Also, walking in stations is dumb. I want to play Eve, not the Sims.
On a positive note, I really enjoyed a lot of the recent minor fixes and improvements. Polish the content you have, CCP, then add new stuff (I can wait for new stuff if have a fun non-buggy internet spaceship mmo to pass the time).
|
Mercof Mercy
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 16:54:00 -
[114]
+1
|
Antihrist Pripravnik
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 16:54:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Guilliman R
Hell yes. CCP is starting to look like EA before their image review. Raping everything they get their hands on for quick return.
I've got myself a deadline; I'll wait till summer (august) and if by then the most glaring issues aren't solved (hybrids, gallente, OP 1400's (seriously, arty abbadons!???), Stupid OP Supers that make all caps obsolete. Industry changes (UI..)) I'll just find a new game to play, or focus more on studying physics. I can only wait so long.
I really hate EA for ruining so many cool universes, now ccp is doing the same thing. It's the exact same path they're taking.
Specific gameplay issues are not that much of a problem. Players can adapt to it fairly quick. Let's take a look on your examples: - hybrids are not THAT bad. I use them on my alt almost exclusively and all I can say that they are not that useful, but they still have their use - Gallente are not broken. One of the best PvE and PvP ships around. Ok, maybe capitals are much more useful than the capitals from other races, but that's basically it. - 1400 are not OP. They are only a tool used to fight in lag where ROF is not important. Abaddons are used because they can have the most raw HP, which is also important in lag. - supers are OP, that I'll agree with you. - Industry UI is screaming for changes.
The bigger problem is screwing customers over. Their recent nerf of anomalies where a lot of small alliances lost their invested ISK (which is in fact a very big deal for smaller entities), CCP's lack of understanding of 0.0 warfare and player mentality (wars over Sanctums anyone?), their hilarious reimbursement policy based on "our logs show nothing" principle and non-existent customer support are making the biggest impact. So far, we've got only hints of a fight against bots and that the lag will be more tolerable with the new hardware/building core code. One more drop in the almost full glass of bad decisions and irrational ideas is the new "banning rule" of the alliance tournament (come on... seriously ) - it's a minor annoyance that will affect small amount of players, but it shows that the idea itself wasn't even discussed inside CCP for potential flaws/downsides. It was only driven by "how cool does it sound".
Btw. the idea for nerfing 0.0 PvE was influenced by their lead economist who only had the statistical data from the economy, but failed to notice or didn't get the data from other CCP's departments that in the Q4 of the last year (and continued to this year) we had major rise in the amount of bots, primarily mission running/ratting ones. I'm talking about thousands of them.
|
Fennore
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 16:59:00 -
[116]
big time.
|
Tekedo
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 17:09:00 -
[117]
Agreed.
|
Guilliman R
Gallente Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 17:24:00 -
[118]
Change of plan, cancelled 2 accounts, keeping two open (one is POS/invention one, and the other is my main.)
Not sure about the future, weather they go back up later depends on CCP. ------
|
Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 17:42:00 -
[119]
Supported.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
Lev Aeris
b.b.k Fidelas Constans
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 17:44:00 -
[120]
CCP Wake Up. You have a solid customer base. Stop trying to sell out and appeal to the masses, stick to what you are good at.
|
|
Sights Silo
LOST IDEA C0VEN
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 17:54:00 -
[121]
Upboats.
|
Rutger Centemus
Phantom Squad En Garde
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 18:00:00 -
[122]
Supported
Originally by: Crumplecorn I prefer launching bathtubs of antimatter at my opponents over pointing an open DVD player at them, even if the bathtubs do miss a lot. So no.
|
RadioControlled
Joint Empire Squad
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 18:05:00 -
[123]
Supported.
|
Selene D'Celeste
The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 18:05:00 -
[124]
______________________________
|
Tango Tonight
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 18:06:00 -
[125]
Thumbs up.
|
Testah McTest
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 18:07:00 -
[126]
.
|
Vicar2008
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 18:08:00 -
[127]
Part of "Why the hell am I logging into this game anymore" crew supporting
|
Y Berion
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 18:19:00 -
[128]
Well said.
|
Marija Vanszar
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 18:21:00 -
[129]
Fully supported
|
Ive ABiggun
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 18:23:00 -
[130]
Support,
I hope the new CSM will be able to do something!
|
|
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 18:41:00 -
[131]
Supported.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
Kerrisone
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 18:58:00 -
[132]
Supported, I can't keep splaining these black eyes as 'falling down'.
|
Mya ElleTerego
Blackwater USA Inc. Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 19:18:00 -
[133]
I fully agree with this
|
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 19:19:00 -
[134]
Supported. Enough is enough.
|
Ashlar Maidstone
Intergalactic Combined Technologies The Chamber of Commerce
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 19:34:00 -
[135]
Supported!!
|
Durandal Prime
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 19:38:00 -
[136]
Absolutely Support
|
Aurora Fire
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 19:39:00 -
[137]
Supporting this with my whole heart ... but i am a realist and i know that CCP don't and will not give a damn unless people start to massively unsub. Soon they will make stupid jokes about all this shi* that is happening for some time.
|
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 19:40:00 -
[138]
Sometimes I really agree with Akita T!
|
Slate Shoa
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 19:43:00 -
[139]
Couldn't agree more |
Tedric
Genco Fidelas Constans
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 19:45:00 -
[140]
I support this thread.
CCP, you need to hear this.
Yes I was at FanFest, I did hear what you said, but you still need to fix what is in the game before you add more content. This content includes Incarna.
Tedric.
|
|
Lt Angus
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 20:04:00 -
[141]
Supported
Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 20:07:00 -
[142]
up
Stunning EVE Online Theme for PS3 |
Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 20:10:00 -
[143]
Edited by: Alice Katsuko on 10/04/2011 20:16:17 Edited by: Alice Katsuko on 10/04/2011 20:10:28 Supported.
Edit: Knee-jerk post removed. Still supported.
|
bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 20:11:00 -
[144]
|
ViceAdmiral Callahan
Boogie Monsters
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 20:13:00 -
[145]
Post: {/start} I support / endorse OP's point of view's and / opinion's {/end}
|
Wyke Mossari
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 20:20:00 -
[146]
Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 10/04/2011 20:21:44 Recently I got the sense that progress was being made, we've had iterative releases, notice taken of incremental improvement, bug fixing then, bang, CCP shoots it's self in the foot.
As someone who's worked in the software game for nearly 18 years I know that poor quality costs you more in the long term. The cost is not just in monetary terms, but prestige and good staff. It will burn-out your best people. Those that care and go the extra mile, one day they will turn around and say **** this I'm off.
|
Zofran
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 20:25:00 -
[147]
Edited by: Zofran on 10/04/2011 20:25:30 A few days ago some guy I know from working with game dev was talking about other Icelandic developers, some of which have financial interests in his company (which is a small, indy place... they are just backing). He's a pretty big CCP fanboy, so I give I'm a go with talking about how the mismanagement is driving them into the ground and... amazingly he actually agreed based on talking to one of the partners; now you're thinking "ok who cares".
Anyway, the person in question is generally referred to with a name starting with an 'H' and not including the "CCP" prefix and has been around forever. This person claimed that CCP was pretty much killing itself by making people like him work on the business aspects while the technical and game dev side was being overrun by business types or "game devs"(the ones that cant code), who have no clue at all and just want to do gimmicky bull**** to please investors. He wanted to realign to the early days where there was a more involved steering from the high-up technical types, but was struggling with the "how".
Just thought I'd put that out there - I'm sure he'd never confirm saying that, but I felt it nice to know that at least one of the oldguard had a clue. Trust me, dont trust me... I don't care.
Get rid of the bodies, stop hiring community tools and "yes-men" who are just going to continue this. Stop listening to all your commercially interested partnerships and start looking to do things fresh, Python was a great idea and made eve possible, all of your other infrastructure choices have been based on partnerships and money, lets stop screwing the consumer who is paying for that experience. Middleware is not the solution either. At the end of the day, we'd rather have a small company doing less grand expansions (who cares about Dust/Incarna when the core game is rotting), we want the quality and gameplay back - you don't need to be the big playa to do that.
At the end of the day, if you make that choice too late, after Dust fails and your investors run... you've lost the game son.
|
Riyal
Chode Extravaganza
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 20:26:00 -
[148]
Major quality related forum embarisment so close to the fanfest.
Supported.
|
Lirael Dyrim
In Bacon We Trust
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 20:27:00 -
[149]
|
Breaker77
Reclamation Industries
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 20:30:00 -
[150]
Supported
|
|
Baaldor
Igneus Auctorita Gentlemen's Agreement
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 20:37:00 -
[151]
Edited by: Baaldor on 10/04/2011 20:37:44
Originally by: Akita T We're patient. We can wait. We want quality.
At some point in a companies journey and growth, reestablishing the concept of what made that company successful and unique, is needed for a reality check and to get back some of that focus and grit we were promised in the beginning. Usually this happens when you write your business plan for the year.
As for the polish bit:
Polishing a turd does not change the fact it is still a turd. Use some focus to pull out the the things that actually need polishing.
|
Dixie Starbuck
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 20:49:00 -
[152]
Yes, please stop rushing out things before they are even close to being ready. And when you test them, listen to the folks you ask to test them. If you aren't going to listen to your beta testers, why even bother having them ? |
Doctor Mabuse
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 20:57:00 -
[153]
<sigh> Supported. Not that it will make any difference. ------------------------------------
Who's trip-trapping on my bridge? |
Daneel Trevize
Black Viper Nomads
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 21:11:00 -
[154]
What (s)he said, because it's what we think. |
CHEERWlNE
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 21:12:00 -
[155]
Edited by: CHEERWlNE on 10/04/2011 21:13:37
Totally agree, way too many times have I seen very noticeable bugs on the test server such as the mackinaw being bright yellow... weeks before final release, yet they somehow make it into the final version and only get fixed when loads of people start making noise about it.
I'm really getting tired of CCP not listening to us, what is the point of the test server if bug reports are not even acknowledged?
Oh and will we ever get remade ships like the scorpion? or new t3 ships? or comets? are you just going to leave everything unfinished???
|
William Loire
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 21:13:00 -
[156]
Supported. Too bad they won;t listen.
|
FeralShadow
RipStar. United Front Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 21:16:00 -
[157]
Here's to hoping. _______________________________________________ "If you want to taste the ground, feel free to attack." - Kenshin Himura
|
Forum Troll Trolling
Forum Trolling Corp
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 21:16:00 -
[158]
|
Rikki Sals
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 21:22:00 -
[159]
Supported. I like this game, and I don't want to turn into a "bitter vet" in the next six months.
|
Aeronwen Carys
Empire of Dust
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 21:22:00 -
[160]
Supported
|
|
Hana Steelethorne
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 21:29:00 -
[161]
It's true. CCP has lost it's vision and it's way.
|
Alain Hakomairos
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 21:31:00 -
[162]
|
Sylar McIntyr
Konstrukteure der Zukunft Initiative Mercenaries
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 21:32:00 -
[163]
Listen to Akita because he is quite right!
|
EnthusiGASM
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 21:35:00 -
[164]
|
Koronakesh
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 22:03:00 -
[165]
+1'ing. If I couldn't use my ISK to pay with plex or GTC, I would've left years ago. Maybe when EVE comes out of Beta, it will be worth paying for.
|
Malcom Dax
Blacklight Incorporated Broken Chains Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 22:20:00 -
[166]
Supported
|
Mike deVoid
Spiritus Draconis
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 22:23:00 -
[167]
Edited by: Mike deVoid on 10/04/2011 22:25:33 supported; sig relevant. -----
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 22:29:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Mike deVoid sig relevant.
+1 "LIEK" ! _
CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE. |
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 22:31:00 -
[169]
+1 supported.
|
Sellador
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 23:20:00 -
[170]
Omg, this is so funny and pathetic.
Some graph from user about user subscription prediction because they failed at forums and because they're not fixing some old this and that? lol. Well, subscription been rising since "that" hasn't been fixed, so? logic?
Akita, I saw you at the new forums - whining. I see you here, still whining and trying to make some sort of revolution, haha.
I think you are a troll, smart one.
Look, even if you get 1000 "support" posts to this thread, this is even less than half percent of actual the subscription base. Even if you get 10000(impossible), that's about 3% of actual subscription base. Now you think, because you have no clue whatsoever what is a business plan, financing, economics, marketing, business strategy, investing & investors, etc etc etc, you are going to change what this company is and does for the last 8 years with EvE online? please
stop farting in the air with these silly threads. either leave the game, or man up, drink some concrete and go play your game
|
|
Alrione
Black Lagoon Inc.
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 23:21:00 -
[171]
I have to agree, lack of quality lately is worrying. -------------------------------- No sig, is a sig as well. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 23:46:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Sellador Omg, this is so funny and pathetic.[...]I think you are a troll, smart one.[...]
They see me (t)rollin', they hatin'... _
CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE. |
Baaldor
Igneus Auctorita Gentlemen's Agreement
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 23:46:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Sellador Now you think, because you have no clue whatsoever what is a business plan, financing, economics, marketing, business strategy, investing & investors, etc etc etc, you are going to change what this company is and does for the last 8 years with EvE online? please
You have never written a Business plan...have you. I mean for real, out side of the class room.
|
Erim Solfara
inFluX.
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 23:48:00 -
[174]
|
fukier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Warped Aggression
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 23:52:00 -
[175]
|
qwijJibow
The Unpodable Supermen
|
Posted - 2011.04.10 23:53:00 -
[176]
Remember you hell is someone elses heaven... |
Eris Alamina
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 00:06:00 -
[177]
+1
|
Doctor Invictus
Zaneta Enterprises Inc
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 00:12:00 -
[178]
Yeah, this.
I mean, how hard is it to both polish/refine existing mechanics and introduce new content? It seems like you could basically make the two processes the same thing.
|
Tomo Khan
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 00:49:00 -
[179]
Supported.
I wonder what CCP's own devs think about this clusterfluck.
|
Araviel
Epic.
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 01:41:00 -
[180]
supported 100%
MAXSuicide> Araviels bat is even more powerful than the nerf bat.
|
|
Smoogle
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 02:22:00 -
[181]
|
Mortania
Minmatar Kinetic Cartel Shadow of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 02:45:00 -
[182]
Edited by: Mortania on 11/04/2011 02:45:22
Originally by: Zofran Edited by: Zofran on 10/04/2011 20:25:30 A few days ago some guy I know from working with game dev was talking about other Icelandic developers, some of which have financial interests in his company (which is a small, indy place... they are just backing). He's a pretty big CCP fanboy, so I give I'm a go with talking about how the mismanagement is driving them into the ground and... amazingly he actually agreed based on talking to one of the partners; now you're thinking "ok who cares".
Anyway, the person in question is generally referred to with a name starting with an 'H' and not including the "CCP" prefix and has been around forever. This person claimed that CCP was pretty much killing itself by making people like him work on the business aspects while the technical and game dev side was being overrun by business types or "game devs"(the ones that cant code), who have no clue at all and just want to do gimmicky bull**** to please investors. He wanted to realign to the early days where there was a more involved steering from the high-up technical types, but was struggling with the "how".
Just thought I'd put that out there - I'm sure he'd never confirm saying that, but I felt it nice to know that at least one of the oldguard had a clue. Trust me, dont trust me... I don't care.
Get rid of the bodies, stop hiring community tools and "yes-men" who are just going to continue this. Stop listening to all your commercially interested partnerships and start looking to do things fresh, Python was a great idea and made eve possible, all of your other infrastructure choices have been based on partnerships and money, lets stop screwing the consumer who is paying for that experience. Middleware is not the solution either. At the end of the day, we'd rather have a small company doing less grand expansions (who cares about Dust/Incarna when the core game is rotting), we want the quality and gameplay back - you don't need to be the big playa to do that.
At the end of the day, if you make that choice too late, after Dust fails and your investors run... you've lost the game son.
I remember saying something along these lines... in 2007! http://eve-search.com/thread/510134/page/2#36
Oh yeah, I even got a response and reply in directly with Oveur on the subject: http://eve-search.com/thread/510134/page/2#52
|
ItsmeHcK1
Lucifer's Hammer
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 02:47:00 -
[183]
Poasting in the middle of the night for the sole purpose of supporting dis.
|
Cassus Temon
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 03:20:00 -
[184]
Originally by: "Clathea Sata" ...cleverer than the staff in CCP...
That small irony aside , I think I agree with most of what you posted there. Nice format and presentation of argument too. Something I wish I was better at.
Those massive dips in the chart are actually, mostly, new users that get drawn in by the advertising campaign's and cool artwork, then drop as they realize the game is too hard, or doesn't meet their expectations. No surprise there. What is a surprise, is that we still haven't hit the "...400,000 players in one universe," that was advertised some time ago. Is that chart actually accurate? Where does it come from?
Not that important really.
Supported by the way, but with the usual reservations.
I like new content, and I'd like to see more. The new avatars are super nice, and the coming Incarna features should add greatly to the immersion qualities of the game, or at least make it so station spinning isn't quite so uninteresting, for those of us that have a hard time with immersion.
Once we see the release of the Incarna expansion, promised for a long time now, I would like CCP to drop any new proposals, and begin working on polishing current features. I intend to put up a thread on those features I'd like to see worked on, redone, and released fully functional.
There are bugs and graphics issues that I see as a problem too. One is the effect of Light on POS structures. Environmental occlusion, specular effects, or whatever it is, it has to go. I have a nice PC with a GTX 460 GPU, and shouldn't be having issues like that. My PC is quite capable of rendering everything in the game, and doing it very nicely. Yet, entire POS towers become big blob's of white light, that flicker and mess up my game experience at times. This happens to gates too, and has been occuring off-and-on with regularity, since the release of Dominion.
The new client, from 1.41 or whatever latest patch/hotfix, is also tremendously slow to start up. A full wipe of my PC's shadow cache, anti-virus sweep, and defrag has done nothing to fix it. It takes about 10x longer to start the client now, and till the hotfix, crashed 1 out of 3 times. After the hotfix, it just went back to maybe you can log in 3 times consecutively, and maybe you can't. It still takes forever to get to the splash screen.
Aside from those, and whatever internet maleficient is trying to hack my computer, (possibly succeeding), I don't have many problems. (I had to change one of my Account's passwords and Full/Limited API's 3 times last week, and I'm still not sure if I got past the keylogger.) I also don't use a lot of the same game mechanics that others do. Nothing Sov related, no Faction warfare, blob warfare, etc... There are possibly many bug's/glitches which I have never experienced.
Either way, I am in agreement, that a great many things need to be fixed, before EVE and CCP can or should move on to develop further expansions. EVE could see a year of minimal releases of new content, with all that we've seen in the last. Things need to be addressed first, to satisfy current and past subscriber's, and many of them are on these forums in threads like this one.
Ship Rebalance Industry POS Faction Warfare New Features Polished (Character Creator is working like a slug, and I think they mixed up the facial models) i.e.: CCP needs a defrag. etc...
Bug's and glitches cleaned up. This goes with above suggestion of a defrag, as I'm convinced many of these, are the result of poorly compiled code, or database issues. Functional and working on SISI, to completely sluggish and missing/improperly placed features on TQ is suggestive of this. I know the Vherokior nose wasn't a pyramid shape before, so what happened? Caldari/Civire features, and Gallente/Intaki buggered too.
Not really important, but Vherokior tuck/untuck pants in boots option was messed up too, with recent patch.
Lot's of fixes need to be looked at. ________________________________________________
Character sale forum thread |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 03:25:00 -
[185]
Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 11/04/2011 03:27:38
Originally by: Sellador Omg, this is so funny and pathetic.
<<snippage of irrelevant troll>> you are going to change what this company is and does for the last 8 years with EvE online? please
No you mental midget, learn to read - what Akita wants (and the rest of us want) is for CCP to go back to what made Eve and CCP great for so long and to stop listening to people who: a) don't play the game... b) dont' have a clue about gameplay and... c) don't care about the game...
Saying stupid **** like "polished content doesn't sell as well as new content..." shows a real shift away from what CCP used to be.
EDIT: To add, you do realize that our posting on the *old* disabled forums, not the new, shiny forums...? Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
NO! |
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 04:15:00 -
[186]
Supporting this because there are a mountain of things that I'd like to see CCP fix, rather than working on new crap that will come out-of-the-box pre-nerfed/underdeveloped and never get looked at again. |
FishermansFriend
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 04:15:00 -
[187]
Hold on a second... Why are we even starting this proposal if it may not be able to be seen by everyone seeing as the "forum" button on the website redirected to the new forums for the short stint they were operational. What happens when CCP switches back to the new forums and this gets buried as a read only thread.
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The WiCk3D
Blackwater USA Inc. Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 04:40:00 -
[188]
Originally by: ItsmeHcK1 Poasting in the middle of the night for the sole purpose of supporting dis.
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Calathea Sata
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 05:16:00 -
[189]
Originally by: FishermansFriend Hold on a second... Why are we even starting this proposal if it may not be able to be seen by everyone seeing as the "forum" button on the website redirected to the new forums for the short stint they were operational. What happens when CCP switches back to the new forums and this gets buried as a read only thread.
Let's hope CCP let us keep using the old forums :/
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Zargyl
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 06:50:00 -
[190]
Supported as well.
Quote: Our shiny new forums havenÆt worked quite as expected and they have been going up and down a few times.
http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=4518&tid=1
Please stop giving us "shiny" new stuff, just because you think it is shiny when the new stuff does less than the old ons. The "shiny" forum didn't even seem to support the posting of pictures ...
|
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Jokerface666
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 07:39:00 -
[191]
Me wants functional stuff, it can look like a brick if it works well!
DO IT THE RUSSIAN WAY! w00t w00t wtfpwnage train |
Felo Maxun
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 09:13:00 -
[192]
Signed
|
Anne Arqui
Diamonds in the Rough Enterprises
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 09:30:00 -
[193]
Edited by: Anne Arqui on 11/04/2011 09:30:11 it's calling in the desert but someone has to do it ...
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 09:33:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Cassus Temon Is that chart actually accurate? Where does it come from?
Official CCP Quarterly Economic Newsletter, Q4 2010, page 8. http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/QEN/QEN_Q4-2010.pdf
_
CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE. |
knobber Jobbler
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 09:40:00 -
[195]
Time to polish content ccp. It would be nice if you remembered where not players but valued customers.
|
Dauphin Gormandise
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 09:42:00 -
[196]
Doubt this will get read, but supported
|
McPep
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 10:47:00 -
[197]
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Doris Dragonbreath
StarHunt R.A.G.E
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 10:50:00 -
[198]
Right. WTF is going on in there CCP ? The last patch is .. to put it politely .. underwhelming.
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Brian Khan
StarHunt R.A.G.E
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 10:50:00 -
[199]
Underwhelming I say!
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Mia Silverfang
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 10:51:00 -
[200]
Nerd RAGE!
|
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Carniflex
StarHunt R.A.G.E
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 10:52:00 -
[201]
Yes, my main account is still active as well. I just like Doris picture better. Unfortunately at this point already some of my accounts have expired with no current plan for reactivation.
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Kaarnakivi
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 10:53:00 -
[202]
I want my excellence!
|
NeutronRonk
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 10:54:00 -
[203]
Excellence I say!
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Vyktor Abyss
UK Corp
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 10:54:00 -
[204]
Ridiculous to think that this forum thread will actually even hit the radar of most of CCP's decision makers let alone convince them to do anything about it, but I agree with most of it nevertheless.
Less fluff marketing like "A Future Vision" (? - Stuff that up your cornhole) ; more meat in the content sandwich. Thanks.
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Tehnomaag
StarHunt R.A.G.E
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 10:55:00 -
[205]
Obviously I feel quite strong about it considering the amount of accounts I have voting in here.
|
Bongvir
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 10:55:00 -
[206]
I agree.
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Salasilm
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 10:56:00 -
[207]
Seriously CCP, get your stuff togehter.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 10:57:00 -
[208]
Edited by: Akita T on 11/04/2011 10:57:38
Originally by: Vyktor Abyss Ridiculous to think that this forum thread will actually even hit the radar of most of CCP's decision makers let alone convince them to do anything about it, but I agree with most of it nevertheless.
Well, to be perfectly fair, I seriously doubt it will directly convince any of the higher-ups if they even get to see it, and I also sort of doubt many of the lower-tiered devs that might agree with it will actually do something about it (other than, you know, what they probably already were trying to do without it anyway), but in this type of situation, every little bit has a infinitesimally small chance of helping, so, you know, why not just do it... P.S. Beats singing fake praises to CCP's current direction. _
CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE. |
Heavenly Blues
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 11:19:00 -
[209]
Edited by: Heavenly Blues on 11/04/2011 11:21:32 Quality > Quantity.
Who ever said that CCP games is becoming another Electronic Arts hit the nail on the head. Clean house and get rid of all the untalented money grubbing sellouts that only dream as far as the next quarter's earnings. That kind of sheisty 1980s business feck all aditude has run the global economy into the ground. Don't think that those vampires wont suck the marrow from your companies bones and move on to the next feast after you are used up.
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Ryo Ishikawa
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 11:20:00 -
[210]
I wholeheartedly agree about this.
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Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 12:13:00 -
[211]
Polished content sells! Wait till Second Life in space... we're only WoD beta testers.
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Dray
Euphoria Released Merciless.
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 12:41:00 -
[212]
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Jorgan Niklow
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 12:43:00 -
[213]
Supported.
CCP needs a new EVE centric direction that makes EVE great, adding things to a game isn't a path to greatness when you don't follow up or fill in the blanks. EVE has many blank spots and broken features that if CCP fixed/addressed would be 'new' selling points instead of half truths about things you can do/would want to do in game.
I'm sure WOD and Dust are to blame for EVE being neglected but it isn't them alone, CCP took their eye off the ball in search of more money from EVE instead of trying to keep/make their product better.
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I'thari
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 12:45:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Heavenly Blues ...Who ever said that CCP games is becoming another Electronic Arts hit the nail on the head...
CCP did it: EA is their rolemodel. I thought that CCP statement is a common knowledge...
Will support, but hardly anything will change after second "commit to excellence" thread, I think. |
Zerp Metesur
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 13:10:00 -
[215]
We've been making these threads for 5 years. They didn't listen then and they wont listen now. So long as you're subscribing they wont think they need to care.
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CrossedSwords
URSALIS LOGISTICS GROUP
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 13:53:00 -
[216]
signed
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Calathea Sata
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 14:17:00 -
[217]
Originally by: Zerp Metesur We've been making these threads for 5 years. They didn't listen then and they wont listen now. So long as you're subscribing they wont think they need to care.
Unsubscribed and continue posting
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Alvia Div
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 14:32:00 -
[218]
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Kittamaru
Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 14:41:00 -
[219]
+1 Support for sure... CCP needs to SERIOUSLY take a look at where they are going, who their player base is, etc... I hate to say it, but the latest changes seem almost AIMED at helping those that bot get ahead...
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Belid Hagen
Shade. Penumbra Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 15:57:00 -
[220]
|
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Tarikan
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 16:13:00 -
[221]
supported as much as i can.
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Manyar
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 16:14:00 -
[222]
Yes please.
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Keras Authion
Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 16:37:00 -
[223]
Polished old content > new content that doesn't work well or add anything significant.
Please evaluate the hot topics that have been going on rather than add more stuff that needs reworking but is left as is to make even more new stuff that needs reworking.
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Zindela
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 16:39:00 -
[224]
I support this topic. -------------------
Originally by: CCP Fallout This is not the booze you are looking for.
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Chesty McJubblies
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 16:51:00 -
[225]
Originally by: krickettt Supported. Tired of broken features. CCP needs a new QA team as well.
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Darjeedis
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 17:52:00 -
[226]
Just here to give my full support to this thread.
I have been considering pulling all accounts to a slowly failing game before I get too invested, I still enjoy playing it but as an IT professional and where anyone who claims to be a professional knows that it's Quality over Quantity. Even if it goes against the claims of your accounting/finance dept.
Seriously stand up for the community and fight against releasing horribly inadequate and rushed content.
Just as any professional hair dresser knows how to do more than give a buzz cut, so too must developers and service providers. as craftsmen your status is dictated by your work and ability to cover all bases and provide quality work in a transparent way.
Failing this just makes CCP as a whole appear both unprofessional and incapable of quality work. Some teams of CCP are doing fantastic. Incursion was great, and so too are the improvements and optimizations taking place to the engine.
However this: The Day the Forums Died tells a very different story
Security holes?:Check Code injection:Check User PC threatened: Check Un-encrypted cookies:Check Authentication via editable cookie:Check Ability to impersonate others:Check Stable release: Not so much
TL;DR
Don't do this to yourselves. Start caring about your customers or we promise to stop caring about you.
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Sippy Sexsmith
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 18:17:00 -
[227]
I am in full support of polished content vs. rushed broken content.
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Alias 6322A
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 18:34:00 -
[228]
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Kith Kanann
Pator Tech Corp
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 18:51:00 -
[229]
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Clementina
The Scope
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 19:12:00 -
[230]
I would like to signal my agreement with Akita T. She is saying what needs to be done.
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INDEEDWATSON Watsonindeed
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 19:24:00 -
[231]
Edited by: INDEEDWATSON Watsonindeed on 11/04/2011 19:25:03 I'm hardly aware of what actually needs to be done (haven't played the game long or deep enough) and I don't care to read it all.
But I know that most causes for games are good ones - unless they're pro-racist trolling or something. Lol.
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cyndrogen
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 19:30:00 -
[232]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 10/04/2011 14:06:22
_
We're patient. We can wait. We want quality.
We don't care about your so-called market research that tells you rushed and unpolished new features would sell better than older, sturdy, polished content. That might be the case for WoW clones, BUT NOT FOR EVE. You had some major dips in subscription counts after each new expansion lately, and those were the expansions with heavy-duty advertising and plenty of "new features" (which didn't quite work right, and most of them still don't). Overall, on average, the subscriber count slope didn't get steeper. In fact, one could argue you have been losing momentum.
Save your money that you spend on advertising, word of mouth got you your userbase, word of mouth WILL KEEP getting you a larger userbase. Customers you get from "shiny new stuff" (that doesn't actually work properly anyway) won't stay long enough, and by the time you pumped everything full of barely functional junk, you will have alienated a big portion of the user base.
Didn't the last fanfest reactions tell you WHAT the userbase wants ? Didn't you hear the cheers after the announcement of MINOR polish stuff ?
Learn from your mistakes, CCP. It's not too late to alter this self-destructive new policy. STOP RUSHING OUT UNPOLISHED JUNK AND FOCUS ON FIXING WHAT'S BROKEN BEFORE PROCEEDING.
_
This goes BEYOND the "commitment to excellence", it's actually a plea to whoever inside CCP has eyes to see and ears to listen. You need to try and convince your boss to convince your boss and so on and so forth. As long as the mindset amongst CCP's leadership is that "shiny junk sells, old polish doesn't", the EVE vision of future will end up a resounding flop.
Take a look at sales charts, spank some accountants, DO SOMETHING, just stop this madness.
__
TO SUPPORT THIS THREAD'S IDEA, CLICK THE "Check here if you want to give your support to the idea/discussion going on" CHECKBOX UNDER YOUR POST TEXT INPUT BOX. It's right below "Check here to preview your post" and right below the character selection and "Post Reply" button.
If you forgot to do it at first, you can edit your post to select that too.
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Here's my MS Paint approximation about the next months in EvE's subscriptions market, even if CCP changed their ways and approach to quality (players discontent inertia):
http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/2381/futuresubsu.jpg
As you can see the trend is exhausting (increasing volatility on the upper graph). The yellow lines show the slope changes in the "123 zig zag", the cyan are some areas of support or resistance. and getting more "whipsawing" which is another sign of trend exhaustion. This trend will peak either at the current high or a next lower high (not drawn) then there will be a sharp drop down to the lower support. It will break because we will be in summer (low subs period of the year) and an even sharper drop will happen. After a rebounce (typical bottom W formation), IF CCP changed their ways, they will slowly begin rising up (red line). If they stay as is, we'll see a further drop (blue line) to dynamic support and then who knows.
The user base may be patient but I doubt that the people who hold CCP by the balls will be as understanding.
Iceland is all but bankrupt, their three major banks have enslaved the people of Iceland by borrowing and reaching FAR beyond their GDP. CCP has to increase their use base and show they are successful even if the game is rotting from the inside. Just keep painting over the dead wood and hope no one notices.
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 21:34:00 -
[233]
Originally by: cyndrogen The user base may be patient but I doubt that the people who hold CCP by the balls will be as understanding.
Iceland is all but bankrupt, their three major banks have enslaved the people of Iceland by borrowing and reaching FAR beyond their GDP. CCP has to increase their use base and show they are successful even if the game is rotting from the inside. Just keep painting over the dead wood and hope no one notices.
tbh, considering that CCP gets nearly all their revenue from foreign sources, they have some protection.
doesn't mean they weren't affected tho. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Ed Rush
Erasers inc. Controlled Chaos
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 21:54:00 -
[234]
Would be ironic to see CCP sink like Iceland for being greedy. (WoD, Dust5123123...) :D
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Tau Cabalander
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 22:26:00 -
[235]
EVE Online has tons of content already. The problem is that amount of it that is broken, or doesn't work well with newer content.
I'd pay cash for expansions, even if there was only one a year (or less frequent), if it meant all the other bugs, annoyances, etc., were addressed before adding more content.
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LordElfa
Tri Corp
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 23:35:00 -
[236]
Not supported. This threadnaught is full of over dramatic BS. CCP listens and fixes stuff better than almost any company out there. Stop whining that the fix you want for your style of gameplay hasn't been gotten to yet.
òòòòòòò CSM6-Hated by fools for who they are; Loved by the knowledgeable for what they will do. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2011.04.11 23:53:00 -
[237]
Edited by: Akita T on 11/04/2011 23:55:26
Originally by: LordElfa Not supported. This threadnaught is full of over dramatic BS. CCP listens and fixes stuff better than almost any company out there. Stop whining that the fix you want for your style of gameplay hasn't been gotten to yet.
I'm sorry, would that be the "crash-free please, and also hold the incomplete features" gameplay style you are talking about ? WOULD YOU ALSO LIKE FRIES WITH THAT OR MAYBE SUPERSIZE IT ?
Originally by: cyndrogen The user base may be patient but I doubt that the people who hold CCP by the balls will be as understanding.
And how do you think those same people will react when income starts dropping as our slightly pessimistic estimates seem to indicate ?
If CCP can't resist their pressure now, how do you think they'll do it then, and what abominations will we end up forced to live with ?
_
CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE. |
Trader20
|
Posted - 2011.04.12 00:23:00 -
[238]
Edited by: Trader20 on 12/04/2011 00:28:52 Wow another great crying rant from an "old school" eve online player....yawnnnnnn.....
No the old eve online wasn't better just like ur "glory days" weren't either. You just think they are but ur lying to urself. You just want to blame progress on ur problems so get over it.
Instead of addressing the obvious problem why don't you explain (in detail) a solution. No? I guess it's just easier to whine
Edit: Oh wait I forgot my solution....keep on doing the great work CCP, more content, features, etc. Don't let the hater's tears get u all wet
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FishermansFriend
|
Posted - 2011.04.12 00:41:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Trader20 Edited by: Trader20 on 12/04/2011 00:33:00
Wow another great crying rant from an "old school" eve online player....yawnnnnnn.....
No the old eve online wasn't better just like ur "glory days" weren't either. You just think they are but ur lying to urself. You just want to blame progress on ur problems so get over it. Also Akita u remind me of Captain Hindsight (South Park) lol
Instead of addressing the obvious problem why don't you explain (in detail) a solution. No? I guess it's just easier to whine
Im gonna take the bait but, countless solutions have been proposed, all people are looking for is some respect from CCP in the form of acknowledgment that they screwed up. and a promise that the future will focus on the core EvE rather than projects like WoD and Dust and even Incarna that are not destined to fail like many will say, but just cant be focused on without degrading the main product CCP put's out.
Edit: Oh wait I forgot my solution....keep on doing the great work CCP, more content, features, etc. Don't let the hater's tears get u all wet
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2011.04.12 00:45:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Trader20 No the old eve online wasn't better just like ur "glory days" weren't either. You just think they are but ur lying to urself. You just want to blame progress on ur problems so get over it.
I didn't say the GAME was better back then. Obviously, over time, SOME things EVENTUALLY got polished, so all the old stuff is better and we have new stuff alongside it. BUT THE NEW STUFF IS MOSTLY CRAP. Or suffered from meltdown soon after it was introduced. Or was recalled soon after going live. OR WORSE, it arrives feature-incomplete, buggy as hell and even more annoying, and it REMAINS mostly like that for, oh, at least a few years ? The "glory days" I was referring to do not relate to individual content pieces, but the mentality of the dev team actually followed, constantly improving on the old stuff bit by bit while also trying to put some new stuff in WHEN READY, instead of the current situation where most old content (with very few exceptions) gets neglected while huge grandstanding displays of upcoming features (which never work as advertised) became the norm.
If you can't understand the difference, sorry for you.
Quote: Also Akita u remind me of Captain Hindsight (South Park) lol
The obvious difference being that I have a pretty decent track record of FORESIGHT, as opposed to just Hindsight. Also, you appear to completely lack the powers of Captain Hindsight yourself.
Quote: Instead of addressing the obvious problem why don't you explain (in detail) a solution. No? I guess it's just easier to whine
How about you learn to read what was written in the OP ?
Quote: Edit: Oh wait I forgot my solution....keep on doing the great work CCP, more content, features, etc. Don't let the hater's tears get u all wet
WHAT A COINCIDENCE ! That was EXACTLY the same thing I said ! The only difference is that you seem to think that lately CCP has actually been pushing out the same level of quality they used to. I got news for you, they aren't doing that anymore.
_
CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE. |
|
Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
|
Posted - 2011.04.12 00:48:00 -
[241]
This game is a joke.
CCP realised it about 2 years ago.
CCP Nathan "the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells" Evelgrivion "each passing year, each failure to deliver on expectations of basic competence" |
zebrenoph
|
Posted - 2011.04.12 01:08:00 -
[242]
supported
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Trader20
|
Posted - 2011.04.12 01:09:00 -
[243]
Edited by: Trader20 on 12/04/2011 01:08:57
Originally by: Akita T
WHAT A COINCIDENCE ! That was EXACTLY the same thing I said ! The only difference is that you seem to think that lately CCP has actually been pushing out the same level of quality they used to. I got news for you, they aren't doing that anymore
Eve online has evolved big time from when it first started and has become more complex. Eve online has had major improvements with stability (except forums :) ) , graphics, ui, gameplay. Eve online supports a much larger community then before and has done a pretty decent job of keeping the servers running good.
So intergrating new features/tech/content to this highly evolved, stable, populated, game isn't going to be easy and you cant and wont plz everyone. So you as the player should have the knowledge not to expect perfection and should be reasonable when u criticize.
CCP is smart so they probably will follow the markert research over amateur form rants, because I would do the same thing. Lol and word of mouth...thats a great *theory* but advertising is a proven way to sell a product.
|
Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.04.12 01:28:00 -
[244]
Originally by: Trader20 Lol and word of mouth...thats a great *theory* but advertising is a proven way to sell a product.
so is word of mouth.
and just because EVE has grown, doesn't mean it should start becoming a heap of half-baked bugged features.
I mean, yes, it evolved quite alot since the day I set my foot out of Cistuvaert the first time back in 2003, but in these latter years, the quality of releases have decreased to a level where it's starting to become unsustainable. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Reachok
Holchek Mining Severed Hand.
|
Posted - 2011.04.12 01:29:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Trader20 Edited by: Trader20 on 12/04/2011 01:08:57
Originally by: Akita T
WHAT A COINCIDENCE ! That was EXACTLY the same thing I said ! The only difference is that you seem to think that lately CCP has actually been pushing out the same level of quality they used to. I got news for you, they aren't doing that anymore
Eve online has evolved big time from when it first started and has become more complex. Eve online has had major improvements with stability (except forums :) ) , graphics, ui, gameplay. Eve online supports a much larger community then before and has done a pretty decent job of keeping the servers running good.
So intergrating new features/tech/content to this highly evolved, stable, populated, game isn't going to be easy and you cant and wont plz everyone. So you as the player should have the knowledge not to expect perfection and should be reasonable when u criticize.
CCP is smart so they probably will follow the markert research over amateur form rants, because I would do the same thing. Lol and word of mouth...thats a great *theory* but advertising is a proven way to sell a product.
Dude, I've been playing for a while and hit the wall last year. WIS/Incarna has been the carrot keeping me going. My mule is tired and sees the stable up ahead. I fully agree with Akita. Even if it means another year or more, even if I'm long gone, the game needs the stuff already introduced fixed. Then start adding new content.
________________________________________________
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.04.12 01:32:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Reachok
Originally by: Trader20 Edited by: Trader20 on 12/04/2011 01:08:57
Originally by: Akita T
WHAT A COINCIDENCE ! That was EXACTLY the same thing I said ! The only difference is that you seem to think that lately CCP has actually been pushing out the same level of quality they used to. I got news for you, they aren't doing that anymore
Eve online has evolved big time from when it first started and has become more complex. Eve online has had major improvements with stability (except forums :) ) , graphics, ui, gameplay. Eve online supports a much larger community then before and has done a pretty decent job of keeping the servers running good.
So intergrating new features/tech/content to this highly evolved, stable, populated, game isn't going to be easy and you cant and wont plz everyone. So you as the player should have the knowledge not to expect perfection and should be reasonable when u criticize.
CCP is smart so they probably will follow the markert research over amateur form rants, because I would do the same thing. Lol and word of mouth...thats a great *theory* but advertising is a proven way to sell a product.
Dude, I've been playing for a while and hit the wall last year. WIS/Incarna has been the carrot keeping me going. My mule is tired and sees the stable up ahead. I fully agree with Akita. Even if it means another year or more, even if I'm long gone, the game needs the stuff already introduced fixed. Then start adding new content.
perfect example on how do things right is what team BFF is doing with their low-hanging fruit approach.
so many tiny feature updates and additions, yet so well received on the community. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Trader20
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Posted - 2011.04.12 01:36:00 -
[247]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Trader20 Lol and word of mouth...thats a great *theory* but advertising is a proven way to sell a product.
so is word of mouth.
and just because EVE has grown, doesn't mean it should start becoming a heap of half-baked bugged features.
I mean, yes, it evolved quite alot since the day I set my foot out of Cistuvaert the first time back in 2003, but in these latter years, the quality of releases have decreased to a level where it's starting to become unsustainable.
Population increase ---> Critism increase. Probably the same haters/players ratio as it was when Eve started out, so proportionality the majority of players think Eve and CCP are doing great.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.12 01:56:00 -
[248]
Originally by: Trader20 So intergrating new features/tech/content to this highly evolved, stable, populated, game isn't going to be easy and you cant and wont plz everyone. So you as the player should have the knowledge not to expect perfection and should be reasonable when u criticize.
Who's asking for perfection ? We're merely asking for stuff to be delivered AFTER proper testing AND only when it's slightly more feature-complete than a mere skeleton. Heck, they could even release it as a skeleton IF ONLY they would quickly add some meat to the bones afterwards, but they don't even usually do that anymore.
Quote: CCP is smart so they probably will follow the markert research over amateur form rants, because I would do the same thing. Lol and word of mouth...thats a great *theory* but advertising is a proven way to sell a product.
/facepalm You haven't really been paying attention to any of the arguments about the posted graph, have you ? Well, we'll see how CCP reacts when the subscriber numbers fall further and further away downwards from the almost constant growth line seen so far in the past 6 years or so of EVE history (except very recently).
_
CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE. |
rootimus maximus
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Posted - 2011.04.12 02:00:00 -
[249]
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Trader20
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Posted - 2011.04.12 02:04:00 -
[250]
Edited by: Trader20 on 12/04/2011 02:07:47
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Trader20 So intergrating new features/tech/content to this highly evolved, stable, populated, game isn't going to be easy and you cant and wont plz everyone. So you as the player should have the knowledge not to expect perfection and should be reasonable when u criticize.
Who's asking for perfection ? We're merely asking for stuff to be delivered AFTER proper testing AND only when it's slightly more feature-complete than a mere skeleton. Heck, they could even release it as a skeleton IF ONLY they would quickly add some meat to the bones afterwards, but they don't even usually do that anymore.
Quote: CCP is smart so they probably will follow the markert research over amateur form rants, because I would do the same thing. Lol and word of mouth...thats a great *theory* but advertising is a proven way to sell a product.
/facepalm You haven't really been paying attention to any of the arguments about the posted graph, have you ? Well, we'll see how CCP reacts when the subscriber numbers fall further and further away downwards from the almost constant growth line seen so far in the past 6 years or so of EVE history (except very recently).
Well CCP is doing something right because they've had a steady increase in pop (few dips here and there) and they manage to do this without your input or knowledege. So if I need advice on how to make or play a game, I'll defenite take CCP's advice over yours. Srry
If you don't like the game then leave, noone's forcing you to stay. For such a stubborn critic you do seem to stick around alot. Why does it always seem the haters have the most passion about there "causes" while the other players are just enjoying the game.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.12 02:10:00 -
[251]
Edited by: Akita T on 12/04/2011 02:11:50
Originally by: Trader20 Well CCP is doing something right because they've had a steady increase in pop (few dips here and there) and they manage to do this without your input or knowledge. So if I need advice on how to make or play a game, I'll definitely take CCP's advice over yours. Sorry
CCP _was_ doing a lot of things just right. Past tense. Now, CCP is only doing SOME things right - they're doing the exact opposite of what they used to from a "development focus" standpoint. Because of that shifted focus, combined with underestimates of development time and pressure to release new stuff at the estimated deadline (as opposed to when it's ready to release), quality has suffered, and most of us have noticed it. And the "dips here and there" are getting more pronounced and more frequent as of late - you DO know how to read a graph, don't you ?
_
CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE. |
Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2011.04.12 03:59:00 -
[252]
Originally by: Trader20 Well CCP is doing something right because they've had a steady increase in pop
Actually this is mainly due to them recognising the math of how their business works. When they saw that their average retention was 7 months they started aiming at those 7 months.
* Average retention 7 months. * New subscribers are best found with big flashy expansions of hyperbol that never delivers. * New subscribers demand shallow new features to retain slightly longer. * Subscriber count can be grown simply by decreasing churn for 7-9 month subscribers. * Churn can be combated with higher signup rates and more advertising.
Fixing stuff that people only notice is broken after 7 months is "pointless" from their broken perspective.
Someone forgot to tell them how powerful word of mouth is, spreadsheets tell you what you want to hear.
CCP Nathan "the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells" Evelgrivion "each passing year, each failure to deliver on expectations of basic competence" |
Astroka
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Posted - 2011.04.12 05:57:00 -
[253]
Supporting not telling me you're going to make me a lovely 3-course meal of epic proportions and handing me a corn dog.
====================================== "Rawr" means "I love you" in dinosaur! ====================================== |
Katrina Bekers
Mia Corp
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Posted - 2011.04.12 06:45:00 -
[254]
Akita T, being one of the best market analysts ingame, just hit the nail straight on the head.
Not hearing her call means wanting to hurt one's own stream revenue.
101% support. --- Kat |
LordElfa
Tri Corp
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Posted - 2011.04.12 07:11:00 -
[255]
Edited by: LordElfa on 12/04/2011 07:12:22 Edited by: LordElfa on 12/04/2011 07:11:53 It's not as if I have an issue with CCP fixing bugs and imbalances Akita, I can appreciate making something work better as much as the next person.
My issue is with how you're going about it. First, you're a jerk. I don't care how long you've been in EVE, there's no reason to be a jerk since it won't get you what you want faster.
How are you a jerk you ask? See this thread for more details. Look at how you respond and approach CCP staff with your problems. You're a smart ass and a smug jerk about it. How can we trust you to champion a cause to CCP for us when you can't even act like an adult to CCP.
You started this thread by saying : We're patient. We can wait.
Well then, hurry up and wait and as far as quality goes, buy yourself a bottle of Chteau Margaux 1995 and drink yourself into a coma, then you won't care about anything anymore, just like you think CCP doesn't.
òòòòòòò CSM6-Hated by fools for who they are; Loved by the knowledgeable for what they will do. |
Khalis Sanguar
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Posted - 2011.04.12 07:24:00 -
[256]
Akita said it perfectly (no surprise there ). I wouldn't say CCP is in a downward spiral yet, but they are getting very, very close and need to clean up their act asap.
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Gibbo5771
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Posted - 2011.04.12 08:47:00 -
[257]
Edited by: Gibbo5771 on 12/04/2011 08:48:15 All the little things that make the game fun are the ones that got me hooked years ago, now broken and deserted to sit in the pile of "to do"'s
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ceaon
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Posted - 2011.04.12 11:11:00 -
[258]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
If the whole country is corrupted then it's no longer corruption but culture.
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Narisa Bithon
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Posted - 2011.04.12 12:47:00 -
[259]
i support this
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.12 13:48:00 -
[260]
Originally by: LordElfa My issue is with how you're going about it. First, you're a jerk. I don't care how long you've been in EVE, there's no reason to be a jerk since it won't get you what you want faster. How are you a jerk you ask? See this thread for more details. Look at how you respond and approach CCP staff with your problems. You're a smart ass and a smug jerk about it. How can we trust you to champion a cause to CCP for us when you can't even act like an adult to CCP. You started this thread by saying : We're patient. We can wait. Well then, hurry up and wait and as far as quality goes, buy yourself a bottle of Chteau Margaux 1995 and drink yourself into a coma, then you won't care about anything anymore, just like you think CCP doesn't.
I have to be a jerk about it, because otherwise all of this will be swept quickly under a rug. It will eventually be swept under a rug anyway.
Sure, yes, we can wait... as long as we are reasonably sure that EVENTUALLY, the things will be patched up and polished properly. Right now, we have no reason to believe that would ever be the case, so JUST waiting is POINTLESS.
So, yes, I will be a jerk as long as I _HAVE_ to be, for as long as possible. _
CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE. |
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Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.04.12 14:36:00 -
[261]
Utterly supported. ----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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adriaans
Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
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Posted - 2011.04.12 14:50:00 -
[262]
Yes, we wants! --signature-- F.CS boost: Here Vid: Link |
Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.04.12 15:13:00 -
[263]
This is a bad trend line. Agree with Akita, the game needs iteration and polish more than new features.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Decon Ko
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Posted - 2011.04.12 15:39:00 -
[264]
+1 --
This: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1248088 |
LordElfa
Tri Corp
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Posted - 2011.04.12 16:13:00 -
[265]
Edited by: LordElfa on 12/04/2011 16:14:44
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: LordElfa My issue is with how you're going about it. First, you're a jerk. I don't care how long you've been in EVE, there's no reason to be a jerk since it won't get you what you want faster. How are you a jerk you ask? See this thread for more details. Look at how you respond and approach CCP staff with your problems. You're a smart ass and a smug jerk about it. How can we trust you to champion a cause to CCP for us when you can't even act like an adult to CCP. You started this thread by saying : We're patient. We can wait. Well then, hurry up and wait and as far as quality goes, buy yourself a bottle of Chteau Margaux 1995 and drink yourself into a coma, then you won't care about anything anymore, just like you think CCP doesn't.
I have to be a jerk about it, because otherwise all of this will be swept quickly under a rug. It will eventually be swept under a rug anyway.
Sure, yes, we can wait... as long as we are reasonably sure that EVENTUALLY, the things will be patched up and polished properly. Right now, we have no reason to believe that would ever be the case, so JUST waiting is POINTLESS.
So, yes, I will be a jerk as long as I _HAVE_ to be, for as long as possible.
As you wish. I do hope you succeed, just remember that you get more flies with honey than with vinegar. Also remember that it isn't usually random CCP members who are responsible for the direction of the game so acting harshly towards them isn't always the correct course of action. So be a jerk to the right people, namely the ones making the decisions and not the guys just working 9-5 like we all do, they have little to no control over what happens.
So to recap, Be mad, you have a right to be in this case, but take it out on the right people at CCP.
Good luck Akita, your success is our success.
/Supported
òòòòòòò CSM6-Hated by fools for who they are; Loved by the knowledgeable for what they will do. |
ed jeni
SKULLDOGS RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.04.12 16:17:00 -
[266]
Supported, not that it makes a difference as CCP stopped listening to its players a long time ago. eg. sanctum nerf which was a screw you approach to s system we worked hard to develop as a corp, already our corp members are leaving on the hi-sec train, would the last corp in 0.0 please turn out the lights.
i cant remember the playerbase asking CCP to nerf 0.0 but they did it anyway, i did however see the player base asking over and over to fix a hundred problems that are a real concern, and guess what ??
i have been getting my MMO kicks here in eve since beta, i have brought dozens of new players to eve just by word of mouth and i am sure they in turn have brought new blood into the game, it has been a sad thing though that for the last cpl of years i would advise anyone new to stay well away and after summer this year i too will be hanging up my eve hat as i have finally had enough of the "NEW" |CCP
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Abramul
StarFleet Enterprises -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.04.12 16:27:00 -
[267]
Supported. With the way Eve is set up (free download and trial), word of mouth, in-game and out-of-game, is going to be one of the biggest factors determining if new players decide to stay around. And making sure ALL features are up to par, instead of just adding new features and moving on to the next expansion, is the way to get older players to tell newer players that Eve is worth staying around for.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.12 17:21:00 -
[268]
Edited by: Akita T on 12/04/2011 17:22:14
Originally by: LordElfa I do hope you succeed, just remember that you get more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Actually, that was repeatedly proven wrong. You actually DO catch more flies with vinegar. Try it yourself some time...
Quote: Also remember that it isn't usually random CCP members who are responsible for the direction of the game so acting harshly towards them isn't always the correct course of action. So be a jerk to the right people, namely the ones making the decisions and not the guys just working 9-5 like we all do, they have little to no control over what happens. So to recap, Be mad, you have a right to be in this case, but take it out on the right people at CCP. Good luck Akita, your success is our success.
That was my point all along too, if I failed to make it clear enough from the start, I'd have to apologize and see what I can do to make it clearer earlier. I still love the game, I still love most of the devs I know anything about at CCP, the problem I have is with "upper management", or more precisely, with their development focus / schedule, and the "results" it encourages.
_
CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE. |
Ranud Sunraker
Brothers of Destiny Sev3rance
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Posted - 2011.04.12 17:28:00 -
[269]
I generally agree with the OP. The trend to put out new shiny content in favor of "that old stuff" is worrying.
But i'm glad that this seems to have been heard at CCP to a certain degree. Keep on polishing the old stuff, slow down on the new and shiny. Old and shiny can be quite cool, too.
I think the Thousand Papercuts are a good start, so is the overhaul of the UI. I sincerely hope POSes, Corp Management and COSMOS Sites are on the list, too. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.12 17:42:00 -
[270]
Edited by: Akita T on 12/04/2011 17:46:37
Quote: CSM MINUTES, 23-25 JUNE 2010
14:30-15:30 CCP: Commitment to Excellence CCP Attendees: Nathan û CCP Oveur, Erlendur û CCP Explorer
The CSM gave a presentation on player expectations regarding excellence and expressed concern at the direction in which CCP is going with EVE.
There is full consensus within the CSM that this issue is a problem. Some examples of game areas which the CSM feels do not meet the expected standard of excellence: factional warfare, treaties, lag, Tyrannis introduction (PI), unfinished content (COSMOS, bounty hunting system). Examples which the CSM feels demonstrate that CCP IS capable of excellence: Apocrypha (wormholes, T3, less lag), Dominion (supercaps rebalance), Quantum Rise.
The CSM stated that there is a widespread belief that CCP is emphasizing quantity at the cost of quality, which goes against CCPÆs ôExcellenceö initiative.
The CSM proposed that CCP focus more on existing content, polishing it post-release until it is excellent. Speaking on behalf of CCP, Nathan disagreed strongly with the claim that CCP isnÆt committed to excellence. He pointed out that CCP probably spends a bigger part of its income on development than most other large, established game companies. He stated that this is a clear sign of this commitment.
The CSM suggested that a perception of excellence is in large part based on player perception and that they felt that players generally do not perceive EVE as being an excellent product nor headed in an excellent direction.
The greatly increased null-sec lag was cited as major example, as it has resulted in a situation where fleets of a few dozen players often experience major problems loading up empty systems. Nathan pointed out that CCP is heavily focused on reducing lag and that resources are currently being applied to the problem. Discussion then focused on an apparent drive by CCP to add new features instead of improving existing ones. CCP stated that once Incarna and Planetary Interaction/Dust 514 are fully implemented, focus will probably shift far more towards improvement of existing features.
It was mentioned by CCP that the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells better than new features.
This led to a discussion on the balance of customer acquisition through new features versus customer retention through quality and polish. The CSM also stressed the importance of goodwill and overall player satisfaction, which is very hard to measure in statistics until players decide to quit. The CSM is concerned that players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved.
CSM remained unconvinced of CCPs commitment to excellence, even after Nathan's arguments were heard.
As you can see, the "official" CCP position is that they ARE "committed to excellence". Who in here still believes that after the latest fiasco ? The general perception already was that CCP cares more for quantity than quality as of late, and this is now more than ever obvious.
"Expectation management can be improved"...
HA !
_
CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE. |
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BackStreet Babe
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Posted - 2011.04.12 18:01:00 -
[271]
Edited by: BackStreet Babe on 12/04/2011 18:00:42 there is no signs of excellence coming from ccp or eve currently.
rushed through crap, that dosnt work or isnt wanted is not excellence
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Chi Quan
Bibkor Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.04.13 00:14:00 -
[272]
---- Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
AnakieNine
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Posted - 2011.04.13 01:08:00 -
[273]
+1 I already allowed 3 of my accounts to run out last month.
The only thing that has been keeping a lot of accounts active including mine is the training skills. This game keeps subscribers for one reason over all others. Skill advancement and hope/belief in what the game may offer in the future.
Once that hope for "excellence" has gone, so will much of your player base. Every new player signing onto these boards sees the mountain of discontent coming from old players over the last 9+ months and the ramifications aren't good. It is no longer just something probably effecting the older players but one that will bleed the numbers of new players into the system.
That graph also should/could look a lot worse. It includes a lot of player grabs that CCP did in the quarter such as removing the learning skill which brought alot of players/alts back. Even the QEN stated that Plex was effected by old players returning. Granted this is probably also what caused one of the large variance in the graph that quarter. So dont read to much into the spikes of the quarter. Much better to look into the trend VV and akati.
Assuming no real marketing changes my belief the trend change reflects a drop in sentiment and the large eve player base that just keeps accounts active for skills. I'd perfer to see number of accounts who played more than 5 hours or longed on more than x time in the last 30 days.
Shining New stuff is great but bring out new content like PI that currently has no multiplayer play into a multiplayer game is not "excellence" imo. All you did was encourage thining out of the player base as anyone involved in PI is basically a loner in a single player game. (unless they are chatting to someone.) The reason people liked the original PI descriptions was because it was "another" battlefield that effected existing game mechanics. It been a year and nothing on that front.. Why didn't you make it where we had to terraform the planet. build large infrastructure and terraform the plants first. That would have brought long levity before actual Pi itself and made people become emotionally connected to the planets they terraformed. Also deterraform if left alone to repeat the cycle. So will the Captian Quarters be the same? disconnected from the game and just a spot to land in-station? Eve is about war, wealth and frendship. Stop bring new features that deminish these qualities unless it is of a very high standard and somehow adds value to the existing game. Walking in station should be great but will it. Most people at fanfeast shrug their head at the info.
Last but not least. You believe your communication with players is good however by running things like the csm you forget the basics (same as forum security..) of determining customer service and gauging the opinions of your customers. How about taking a step back the next time you just give away a nice new ship and instead provide it as a reward to filling out a customer survey/poll. Do some basic stat on groups of players depending on their player age and if it's a main account or alt. Get back to basics and Re-learn your customer base both the new and old ones.There is nothing like being able to say 35% of customers over a year old want the older game mechanics fixed over new content and that 25% of players in their first year don't give a dam for 0.0. Guess what? 15% want the market systme made more advanced and 70% found the most fun they ever had in eve was when they ?????.
You get the idea. I think you have moved from a company of people that played and loved the game, who instinctively knew what was good and drove head first toward it until the vision was done; to one who don't have the time to play which has a bureaucratic management going for the quick in your face dollar returns over the long term good of the game. That approach is good at times but it's not a approach to attempt to rely on for the last 2+ years.
Hope keeps us here but how long?
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Bronya Boga
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Posted - 2011.04.13 01:24:00 -
[274]
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2011.04.13 04:13:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Akita T
The general perception already was that CCP cares more for quantity than quality as of late, and this is now more than ever obvious.
About the only thing to come from Hilmar's mouth in 2 years is "our target is 600k subscribers everyone"
Yeah..... Aiming for a subscriber target above all else was smartest move in the middle of building 2 new unrelated products.
Funny part of that vid is the looks of horror from the devs as he randomly barges into rooms shouting it.
CCP Nathan "the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells" Evelgrivion "each passing year, each failure to deliver on expectations of basic competence" |
Tehg Rhind
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Posted - 2011.04.13 05:20:00 -
[276]
Edited by: Tehg Rhind on 13/04/2011 05:23:10 Guys, I feel your pain. I truly truly do. EvE has been ruined for you. You see no value in this game and therefore you want to leave. But why leave without sending a message? Seeing as you see no value in this game, you must also so no value in your assets, however in that you are mistaken. I am here to provide your assets with value. The final message of disdain for EvE that you can send to CCP is through publicly abandoning your assets and ISK to me. Send them to me and I will start a thread with your player name and details of the abandoned assets, which will surely create a strong message for CCP. Show them you mean business. Send me your ISK, your ships, your stockpiles. I will bear the burden of all of them and make sure that your clear dislike of the game is heard throughout New Eden.
These pixels mean nothing to you, let me give show you one last moment of value for them.
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Soldarius
Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.04.13 07:43:00 -
[277]
I support this product and/or service. In this case, advice from the market gurus.
Originally by: CCP Shadow ...I cannot guarantee (my) sobriety or decency.
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foksieloy
Universal Army
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Posted - 2011.04.13 08:56:00 -
[278]
Supported with both hands. _______________________ The best thing in EvE is Barrage M. |
Elaine Shandrate
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Posted - 2011.04.13 09:56:00 -
[279]
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.13 13:32:00 -
[280]
Edited by: Akita T on 13/04/2011 13:33:30
Originally by: Tehg Rhind Guys, I feel your pain. I truly truly do. EvE has been ruined for you. You see no value in this game and therefore you want to leave.
That's where you're totally wrong. AT WORST, we're cutting back from multiple accounts to a single active account. EVE has not YET been ruined for us, we do not wish to leave, but we fear that SOONÖ, it might actually come to that. We wish to at least TRY to prevent that from happening. _
CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE. |
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Reiisha
EVE University
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Posted - 2011.04.13 21:31:00 -
[281]
I can only agree to Akita. While i still think Incarna at least is a good thing, it shouldn't come at the cost of the rest of the game being neglected. Take people from WoD to work on Incarna, don't take them from EVE - We're paying for *this* game, not the other two.
And the most important thing: When the marketing department starts to have a say in game design, fire them. Too many developers have been ruined by people pretending to know about games by quoting "market data". I really don't want CCP to be one of them.
"If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
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Jaik7
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Posted - 2011.04.13 22:46:00 -
[282]
common sense proposal is commons sense
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.04.14 00:58:00 -
[283]
Originally by: AnakieNine
Shining New stuff is great but bring out new content like PI that currently has no multiplayer play into a multiplayer game is not "excellence" imo. All you did was encourage thining out of the player base as anyone involved in PI is basically a loner in a single player game. (unless they are chatting to someone.) The reason people liked the original PI descriptions was because it was "another" battlefield that effected existing game mechanics. It been a year and nothing on that front..
Not really true...they're always playing the industry and market game, which is the lifeblood of Eve. Also, Dust is coming soon enough, which turns PI into a battleground.
Originally by: AnakieNine
Why didn't you make it where we had to terraform the planet. build large infrastructure and terraform the plants first. That would have brought long levity before actual Pi itself and made people become emotionally connected to the planets they terraformed. Also deterraform if left alone to repeat the cycle.
Nice idea...I'd love to see more complex mutliplayer interactions in PI.
~Gnosis~ |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2011.04.14 06:51:00 -
[284]
Supported. _______________________
"Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
Trinity Faetal
Little Garden
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Posted - 2011.04.14 08:34:00 -
[285]
+1
i'd rather be out fighting ppl then sansha or sleepers.
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Chong Woon
|
Posted - 2011.04.14 08:53:00 -
[286]
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Louis deGuerre
Malevolence. Imperial 0rder
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Posted - 2011.04.14 11:02:00 -
[287]
Bioware just killed their reputation by rushing out a thrashy DA2.
Learn from their mistake. ----- Malevolence. is recruiting. Dive into the world of 0.0 !
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.04.14 17:30:00 -
[288]
Edited by: Grimpak on 14/04/2011 17:31:39
Originally by: Trader20
And Grim I had to look up BFF and all is I can say is, "We need this in Eve Online." BFF Game
Little things are still little.
by team Best Friends Forever (BFF)
that was like, one of the most meaningful things ever done to EVE since apocrypha.
and it was just a mashup of small fixes and improvements. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Stegas Tyrano
|
Posted - 2011.04.14 19:33:00 -
[289]
They should let players buy shares of the company using PLEX :D. Shtop... |
EnslaverOfMinmatar
Viziam
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Posted - 2011.04.14 20:01:00 -
[290]
Support uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ Signature removed. Please submit a petition for further details. Navigator
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Riedle
Paradox Collective Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.04.15 14:32:00 -
[291]
supported
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Arklan1
Dunedain Rangers
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Posted - 2011.04.15 19:10:00 -
[292]
as some one with the majority of the last decade spent in QA at several games companies (vivendi, activision, 3do, gearbox, etc) i'd bet my eve account that it's managment related more then tester related.
also, i'd happily volunteer to move to either atlanta or iceland for a job! :D
supported.
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Vernal Equinox
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Posted - 2011.04.15 22:54:00 -
[293]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 12/04/2011 17:47:03
We don't care about your so-called market research that tells you rushed and unpolished new features would sell better than older, sturdy, polished content. That might be the case for WoW clones, BUT NOT FOR EVE.
^this. I think CCP forgets that thier market is niche. Makes more sense to focus on subscriber retention than addition. Moreso, the simple fact is that the concepts behind EvE are so unique, so spectacular, so immersive that if CCP only focused on making each element of the game as good as it could be, the new subs will pile on and stay playing. Great game is great. If you build it, they will come.
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The Mittani
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Posted - 2011.04.16 05:42:00 -
[294]
i think everyone pretty broadly agrees with this, it's not a really controversial topic. however like 'commit to excellence' it's basically just an empty slogan; there's nothing to pass or upvote here. "Don't Rush Stuff", "Be Excellent", blah blah
that's not a proposal. 'devote more resources and staff to team gridlock and team BFF', or 'make BFF a permanent part of every major patch release, forever', those are specific proposals that aren't empty.
we all agree that there needs to be a massive resource push to iteration teams like BFF, and will be focusing on what i call the 'CCP Abandons Features' narrative in the upcoming summit.
The Mittani for CSM6 Sins of a Solar Spymaster
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I'thari
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.04.16 09:44:00 -
[295]
Originally by: The Mittani i think everyone pretty broadly agrees with this, it's not a really controversial topic. however like 'commit to excellence' it's basically just an empty slogan; there's nothing to pass or upvote here. "Don't Rush Stuff", "Be Excellent", blah blah
that's not a proposal. 'devote more resources and staff to team gridlock and team BFF', or 'make BFF a permanent part of every major patch release, forever', those are specific proposals that aren't empty.
we all agree that there needs to be a massive resource push to iteration teams like BFF, and will be focusing on what i call the 'CCP Abandons Features' narrative in the upcoming summit.
So, "don't relese feature untill it's working" is not a proposal? oh well... |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.16 20:53:00 -
[296]
Originally by: The Mittani i think everyone pretty broadly agrees with this, it's not a really controversial topic. however like 'commit to excellence' it's basically just an empty slogan; there's nothing to pass or upvote here. "Don't Rush Stuff", "Be Excellent", blah blah
I can sadly agree with that completely.
Quote: that's not a proposal. 'devote more resources and staff to team gridlock and team BFF', or 'make BFF a permanent part of every major patch release, forever', those are specific proposals that aren't empty.
Indeed, it is not a specific gameplay or resource allocation proposal. However, it is a proposal for a "company policy" shift.
Just like the "tenure" of Doc. E.G. at the helm of the in-game economy division has resulted in changes that MIGHT have made the game's economy more of a "free market", the lack of accompanying game balance/design changes to compensate for that "increased freedom" with some form of negative feedback regulating mechanism ended up throwing a lot of things that made gameplay sense into disarray.
The CCP leadership seems to have forgotten that EVE is by initial design a niche game, so its appeal (and resulting subscriber growth line-like graph) OTHER than the uniqueness of it for a long time has mostly been quality over quantity. Or, if they haven't forgotten that, they let themselves be swayed by external factors which have nothing to do with the game of EVE (i.e. pressure from some of the people who financed their expansion and now want to see fast results in terms of returned revenue). Either way, the notion that the "conventional marketing wisdom" that applies to WoW clones -- that "(any) new features sell better than (most) older polished content" -- DOES NOT apply to EVE. Or, better said, that if you try to apply it to EVE, you won't get the results you see for the run-of-the-mill WoW clones.
So, yes, it is a proposal that MAYBE WE DON'T REALLY HAVE A RIGHT TO MAKE (afterall, we're just customers, not company managers), but there is merit in trying to explain to CCP management that their current policy focus will not work the way they expect it to work. Or, alternatively, that listening to people with no gameplay background (i.e. marketing, accounting, investors) when it comes to the general direction they take EVE into will not end all that well for them.
Quote: we all agree that there needs to be a massive resource push to iteration teams like BFF, and will be focusing on what i call the 'CCP Abandons Features' narrative in the upcoming summit.
Not so much just abandoning features (although that is a huge part of it too), but also to a smaller degree the tendency to release barebones features in an environment we know is conducive to NOT revisiting old features too often. The approach needs to be two-pronged : older features do need to be revisited even if they were quite ok once upon a time, but also, new features SHOULD NOT be released at all in such a skeletal state so often.
_
CCP LEADERSHIP MENTALITY NEEDS TO CHANGE FAST ! "New junky features sell, old polished content doesn't" ? KILL IT WITH FIRE. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.17 05:42:00 -
[297]
Edited by: Akita T on 17/04/2011 05:42:41
...char limit reached...
But yeah, on the other hand, this CSM might as well ignore this way too wide-reaching issue because, realistically speaking, it's something unlikely to have much of an effect (if any, at all) on CCP's attitude (much less actions), so it will practically be a waste of time.
Oh well... :le sigh:
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts |
Aineko Macx
|
Posted - 2011.04.17 07:15:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Akita T ... its appeal (and resulting subscriber growth line-like graph) OTHER than the uniqueness of it for a long time has mostly been quality over quantity.
I disagree. Quality, as in software quality and feature polishedness, was never a selling point for eve. Depth, endless possibilities, pvp and uniqueness were and still are. Serving a niche market with essentially no competition and having a playerbase that is frustration tolerant minimized the impact of lack of quality for CCP. This has led to a management and dev mentality where quality is regarded as of secondary importance. However, the bigger the game, the playerbase and the company grows, the meaner the problems arising from that mentality become. Thus underlining the importance of the call made by you in the opening post. ________________________ CCP: Where fixing bugs is a luxury, not an obligation. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.17 09:05:00 -
[299]
Edited by: Akita T on 17/04/2011 09:09:44
Well, "quality" in the broader sense, not strictly "lacking bugs" or similar.
One could argue that, say, the game design choices that lead to the depth and width we experience in EVE would constitute in itself "quality", and that the more both of those "dimensions" is expanded by any additional feature, the higher the quality of that particular feature is. So, in that sense, for example, PI would be a rather shallow but wide feature (quite simplistic if you look beyond the sheer number of building/schematic/material combinations, but with a large-scale impact on a lot of people), so not exactly quite of high quality yet. But if its depth could be improved (meaningful territorial conflict, population/zone management, a more involved prospecting process, a more involved competition for resources, etc), it would qualify as being of high quality afterwards.
But yeah, you have a point. Good thing that the conclusion is nevertheless the same _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts |
Aineko Macx
|
Posted - 2011.04.17 11:03:00 -
[300]
Yeah, I thought of dwelling on the definition of "quality" but I was lazy. At least we can say that the quality of the game experience is still good enough for us to care to discuss here ________________________ CCP: Where fixing bugs is a luxury, not an obligation. |
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.17 11:37:00 -
[301]
Keyword "still" _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts |
Rudolf Miller
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.04.17 17:54:00 -
[302]
supporting
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EVE has sound
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Posted - 2011.04.17 20:27:00 -
[303]
Supporting with an alt
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BigBlackDiggaNick
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Posted - 2011.04.17 20:29:00 -
[304]
There is nevar enough alt support!
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Jade Knight07
|
Posted - 2011.04.18 01:45:00 -
[305]
Supported naturally. |
Naomi Knight
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.04.18 08:13:00 -
[306]
Keep up the good work CCP these ppl play too much anyway. Give this game a new imo like changing the name to Matari Online or something.
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Brakoo
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Posted - 2011.04.19 08:09:00 -
[307]
Incarna will not stop me from canceling 3 accounts if Eves Old Broken Features aren't fixed
POS Towers Sov Better GM's who actually read your petition instead of apologizing for taking to long to get to your petition.
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Darth Aethrian
Pacific Dawn Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.04.21 21:44:00 -
[308]
Supporting.
It has really gotten ridiculous how much time and :effort: that CCP is putting into Incarna instead of refining existing content.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm sure Walking in Stations will be cool and all that, but I'd rather never get that content and have functional fleet fights, improved UI, better balancing, and sov tweaks, not to mention actual stories for PVE content, and fixing old ideas.
CCP, by all means, finish Incarna, but then I humbly ask that you spend a year fixing all the other stuff you've implemented and make the game work really well, and make it FUN. You've had some ideas and content that you've implemented that sounded so freaking COOL, and then it didn't work how you wanted, so you just left it do die and moved on.
A perfect example of that behavior is Faction Warfare. As a concept, it's awesome as hell. As an actual feature, it's completely lacking support and gives no incentive or reason to do it at all. It wouldn't have taken that much more time to do it right, and figure out how to just make it worthwhile, but instead, you pushed forward.
So please, fix the game. I want to be able to say that I like this game when my friends ask what I'm playing.
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Karl Axelman
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Posted - 2011.04.22 12:15:00 -
[309]
Originally by: Darth Aethrian Supporting.
It has really gotten ridiculous how much time and :effort: that CCP is putting into Incarna instead of refining existing content.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm sure Walking in Stations will be cool and all that, but I'd rather never get that content and have functional fleet fights, improved UI, better balancing, and sov tweaks, not to mention actual stories for PVE content, and fixing old ideas.
CCP, by all means, finish Incarna, but then I humbly ask that you spend a year fixing all the other stuff you've implemented and make the game work really well, and make it FUN. You've had some ideas and content that you've implemented that sounded so freaking COOL, and then it didn't work how you wanted, so you just left it do die and moved on.
A perfect example of that behavior is Faction Warfare. As a concept, it's awesome as hell. As an actual feature, it's completely lacking support and gives no incentive or reason to do it at all. It wouldn't have taken that much more time to do it right, and figure out how to just make it worthwhile, but instead, you pushed forward.
So please, fix the game. I want to be able to say that I like this game when my friends ask what I'm playing.
Supported!
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.04.23 09:59:00 -
[310]
Well, they "kinda" promised that after a year and a half of focusing on Incarna, they'll start focusing more on the rest. Then again, they promised all of Incarna will be completely optional, and would you look at that, the first part of it, CQ, is now becoming mandatory. Not just that, but it also looks like one and a half years might very well turn into three years or even longer. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts |
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Oriana Mortuney
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Posted - 2011.04.23 10:13:00 -
[311]
Originally by: Akita T Well, they "kinda" promised that after a year and a half of focusing on Incarna, they'll start focusing more on the rest. Then again, they promised all of Incarna will be completely optional, and would you look at that, the first part of it, CQ, is now becoming mandatory. Not just that, but it also looks like one and a half years might very well turn into three years or even longer.
This was evident from the moment it was made clear how far they were in actually developing incarna, ie when they showed us they had done virtually nothing.
Also CCP this is my last active account going dark shortly, maybe if CCP changes direction of EVE I'll visit my characters in a few years, assuming EVE is still around.
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Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
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Posted - 2011.04.23 11:55:00 -
[312]
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 23/04/2011 11:55:19 Supported, from someone who regular googles "Awesome brand new MMO's"
I love eve but I can't take much more of this stupidity...
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Nishachara
Special Operations Corp Mortal Destruction
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Posted - 2011.04.24 04:23:00 -
[313]
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Aessaya
Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2011.04.24 20:04:00 -
[314]
While i generally support the newer features (even the PI stuff), I really miss the polishing of the older features. For example, that goddamn "pinned windows don't stay where they are supposed to be" problem which has been plaguing the GUI for like forever (it has always been around since i've started playing).
I support the thread authors ideas about "less shiny junk, more polished old stuff". Please, CCP, listen to your playerbase (and the CSM).
I really love the CCP Soundwave's team work so far, keep it up, guys!
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Cyprus Black
Perkone
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Posted - 2011.04.25 00:03:00 -
[315]
Edited by: Cyprus Black on 25/04/2011 00:04:46 Supported.
I'll take quality over quantity any day.
In the end, if you have large quantities of features that are low quality broken unfinished and not polished, what you really have is just a very large pile of steaming ****.
We want high quality game features, CCP. Not steaming piles of ****.
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Thomas Moroh
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Posted - 2011.04.25 14:16:00 -
[316]
Originally by: Cyprus Black Edited by: Cyprus Black on 25/04/2011 00:04:46 I'll take quality over quantity any day.
Supported ofc.
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Durin Sarga
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Posted - 2011.04.25 23:26:00 -
[317]
Supported. I joined eve 1.5 yrs ago. I'm not some elite vet with all these awesome skills, etc. I'm a fairly new player who came to this game after listening to 3 yrs of bragging from a roommate.
I was intrigued by the depth of thought which went into the development of the game and how players interact.
After the last 2 expansions I have been a part of (Tyrannis, Incursion) I find myself scratching my head. Surely the same company that my roommate was bragging about is not the same company that I have experienced. I don't even know what 'the good ole days' were, but just by word of mouth they sound better than what we have been getting recently.
Durin
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Consortium Agent
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Posted - 2011.04.26 01:26:00 -
[318]
@CCP: http://www.sei.cmu.edu/cmmi/
@Akita: I agree with you in many, many respects. CCP has lots of problems that need to be addressed - iteration being one of them, and one of the biggest.
Running a for-profit business, especially one with investors, is a delicate balance for anyone. While I applaud CCP for its vision in the past and I do want to see the ultimate space-sim that includes all aspects of game play including WIS - I would much rather see the core of Eve get a rebuff first. There are just soooo many things that are outright broken, non-functional, boring as heck/pointless and in need of re-thinking in the core of Eve... Factional Warfare, POSs, Resource gathering, nullsec (again), low-sec, ships, modules, etc. etc. etc.
While I understand from a development standpoint that somewhere on the roadmap (oh dear God please) there's some point where the shiny new stuff meets headlong with the iteration over the old - for many reasons - not the least of which is the need to roll out entirely new code to handle the new aspects of the game your currently developing that can (and will) then be applied to older portions of the game. This is only common sense to a developer - but to the layperson it is not so obvious.
BFF has made great strides on fixing the hundred thousand papercuts and I, for one, greatly appreciate what they are doing - iterating over some of the things that have bothered us for years - all UI related which makes sense since you just revamped the UI anyway so it would be easier to do just that. However, at the same time you have pushed several 'expansions' out the door that just suck (or blow, whichever you prefer) lately - giving us 'new features' that are poorly thought out, absolutely do not include user feedback and were things we generally didn't ask for or want. We've been asking for things for years and years and years - we've been telling you, as players of your game, the direction *we* would like to see the game go to continue being your customers - and still it took you 5 years to put together a security team (which then, sorry Sreegs, epic failed to deliver on the regression testing of the new forum) to even begin to deal with the bots - a problem you helped exacerbate with your changes to nullsec that were meant to provide more opportunity for other players.
In short, we all try to understand that new code means revamping systems of old and, perhaps there is a roadmap that unifies all of the new stuff with the old. I used to play Eve *all the time*. Now I don't really care so much for it to be honest with you. I log on and chat with my friends now and again - do some rudimentary things in research, manufacturing and marketing while I'm chatting, go blowup some bots etc... but otherwise there isn't a whole lot of 'fun' left to be had in the game. Everything I enjoy is b0rk3n or been nerfed to heck and back - I mean, what's the point of factional warfare now anyway?
So I have to agree. CCP you're heading in the wrong direction with respect to the impression you leave with your players. That impression is, sadly, that you generally just don't give two god damns about what your players really want - it's all about pushing the envelope on shiny new stuff and failing to deliver anything that actually works well.
TL;DR
There has always been people unhappy with some aspect of Eve. I get that. I'm not talking about pleasing every Tom, **** and Harry tho - I'm talking about pleasing popular consensus. Like POS revamp, mission revamp, faction warfare revamp, etc. etc. The difference today is the gap between the number of unhappy players vs. the number of new and/or happy players is getting smaller and smaller - more and more people are voicing their concerns over the direction and future of Eve. We're not happy with where you're going, generally speaking. Might wish to listen to your *primary* investors - your players. Without us, you have no company. Remember that.
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Tyrophant
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Posted - 2011.04.27 20:22:00 -
[319]
Originally by: Akita T STOP RUSHING OUT UNPOLISHED JUNK
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Lagruna Zegata
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Posted - 2011.04.28 11:34:00 -
[320]
Definitely agree with Akita T on this.
There are already plenty of things for pilots to do in New Eden without adding more and more unpolished stuff. Thoroughly clean the foundations first before making additions that can always come along later.
PS. Whatever happened to the Serpentis/Syndicate/Blood Raider pirate epic arcs that were supposed to come out? Yet another example of this problem..
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Hermosa Diosas
The Scope
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Posted - 2011.04.28 11:38:00 -
[321]
With respect havent we heard this already about 100 times? and as anything changed....?? Decisions come from the top, CEO and the Board. If they wont change the rest wont. Just seems to me EVE is someones 'personal' project.
Ill do what i want when i want cos its my game. sort of thing..
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Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
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Posted - 2011.04.28 21:02:00 -
[322]
Edited by: Hel O''Ween on 28/04/2011 21:05:29 /supported
Stop that two-expansions-a-year madness. Instead, dedicate one of them to "Fix the old stuff"(tm).
I'm 5 years into this game now - constantly playing, mind you - not suspending accounts in between. But there's still so much stuff in EVE I have never ever tried, that it might easily keep me busy for the next couple of years. I have yet to visit my first WH, let alone do something in there. I've never tried invention. I've never build a POS. I've never flown an epic mission arc. I've never tried out FW etc.
You already have way more stuff in your game than most of your competitors. So why keep adding and adding and adding and leave half-done stuff for years unfinished?
In case you didn't get the memo: quantity does not trump quality. Or, as a German proverb puts it, "Less is more."
[Edit] Damn it, the preview steals your "support" tick ... -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Death Nova
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Posted - 2011.04.30 00:52:00 -
[323]
CCP needs to seriously consider what Akita is saying. All the shiny new stuff sounds cool for a few months till people play it long enough to realize its all broken and they leave. Eve needs better standers than that.
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Tranquil Abyss
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Posted - 2011.04.30 00:56:00 -
[324]
Supported!
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Wen Jaibao
Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2011.04.30 06:34:00 -
[325]
Supported. How about a UI overhaul, POS overhaul, etc before the admittedly cool but of questionable value Incarna?
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Vani Nostro
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Posted - 2011.04.30 11:25:00 -
[326]
Quality > quantity any day. |
Varia Henn
Two Legged Army
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Posted - 2011.04.30 11:27:00 -
[327]
Supported |
Imiarr Timshae
Funny Men In Funny Hats
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Posted - 2011.05.01 16:53:00 -
[328]
Supporting for an old friend (Plus I agree with it.)
Eve's just like that - I'm subbed just because, the game has got progressively worse over the last 6yrs I've been playing imo.
And my friend agrees, he stopped playing 2 years ago but still has his account active to train, just because he's got faith that Eve Online - A Bad Game will one day be rectified. -----
Originally by: GM Horse
Remember kids, both meth and macro use are Really Quite Bad Things.
Originally by: CCP Shadow Tragic smelting accidents.
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Izo Alabaster
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Posted - 2011.05.01 17:42:00 -
[329]
Supported. New features are nice sometimes but bug free, old, polished features are what causes me to stick around for years.
Fun fact: I've paid more for EVE than any other video game I've ever bought. Multiple accounts for several years, totalling over $1,000. That's quite a bit of money for one single video game. |
Mark Hamill
Galactic Waste Management
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Posted - 2011.05.01 19:21:00 -
[330]
"The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain." - James Doohan - Star Trek, The Search for Spock.
Fix the damn plumbing. EVETycoon Marketing, trading and reprocessing tool. |
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Sirion Fujiwara
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Posted - 2011.05.01 22:33:00 -
[331]
Me too.
Everyone seems to agree this issue is structural and serious - well, everyone except CCP....
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Lord Grimmas
Azure Freelancers
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Posted - 2011.05.02 00:32:00 -
[332]
CCP, please take these issues seriously. Akita is on to something here.
/endorsed
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Farinet
|
Posted - 2011.05.02 11:59:00 -
[333]
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Lolmer
Merciless Reckoning
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Posted - 2011.05.02 22:22:00 -
[334]
+1
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.20 18:57:00 -
[335]
Latest patch : some awesomeness, some meh, at least two with a lot of rage attached.
Faction standings and inter-faction standings gone, jump harmonics on T3 no longer BlOps bridgeable, nice job on the QA, CCP ! _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Erus Fatum
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Posted - 2011.05.25 20:29:00 -
[336]
/signed
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Sarga Diamat
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Posted - 2011.05.26 20:17:00 -
[337]
*Sigh* So sad to see CCP turning into the type of large corp that I coach back into sanity in my work. I see this all the time: large projects, programs or what have you don't know how to scale up. The interleaving of "smaller things" like what is asked for in this thread and the "large shiny things" is one of those things that companies just don't get.
First problem is that they start doing resource management. There's project A, B, C, D and the maintenance queue, and then they get "resourced". So all the people in teams get assigned all over the place, their time is literally shattered in a million pieces, and teams' productivity and quality is shattered as well. The answer is that the teams should be stable, and all those projects should be chopped up into their respective pieces, and fed to stable teams in stable queues. This works magic.
I know CCP uses the Scrum process, I trained some of their people. But I've only seen them put up a Job opening for a Scrum Master, which is not the tough job that's failing here. http://www.ccpgames.com/en/jobs/job-details.aspx?jobid=280
The tough job is the role called the "product owner", who prioritizes, chops, pushes and shoves to interleave projects A, B, C and D AND the maintenance queue into a sane order. You want CCP to start listening to you? Tell them to get their Product Owner role working. If that role functions well, large stuff like Incarna would not push out the "small stuff".
Again, *sigh*. Why is CCP based in Iceland? If they were based in NL, I'm sure I could go in and help them kick ass... :-(
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Xyzibit
New-Roots
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Posted - 2011.05.27 06:39:00 -
[338]
Edited by: Xyzibit on 27/05/2011 06:39:46 /sign...
more quality please! also review and finish old features first!
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Kahlan Silverdene
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Posted - 2011.05.27 08:28:00 -
[339]
Edited by: Kahlan Silverdene on 27/05/2011 08:28:01 /signed
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Masjheira
Cursed Inc. Not Found.
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Posted - 2011.05.27 10:58:00 -
[340]
Signed.
Ccp, I'm starting for the first time to lose my faith in your ability to make Eve still be the great game I've been playing for a few years now... Incarna is a great exemple of wrong direction in management....
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Eperor
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Posted - 2011.05.27 11:31:00 -
[341]
Polish first old than set up somtign new.
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Brannsy
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Posted - 2011.05.27 19:20:00 -
[342]
Supported, needs more polish. Wouldn't CCP want new players to see a feature and join the EVE community to get then, then find out then the feature is BETTER then the trailer?
Instead of the lackluster things that tend to get pumped on occasion. (Incursion wasn't terrible but it was a small feature.)
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Tub Chil
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Posted - 2011.05.28 10:36:00 -
[343]
Why didn't I support this before?
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BLACK-STAR
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Posted - 2011.05.28 12:22:00 -
[344]
Edited by: BLACK-STAR on 28/05/2011 12:22:21 CCP.... you are saddening me aswell. I don't care at all about your captains quarters that will bore us for a year until then you maybe figure out "walking in stations" in 2012 (I can't imagine by then CCP will have more than a dozen different station layouts.)
Very slow progress and I thought Incursion was going to finally get changes but very few insignificant impacted for the good.
Where are the new T3 ships? Just cruisers huh? this has been a long wait aswell...
Does CCP think Incarna is going to seriously interest new subscribers with one room to walk in? They're going to think the game developers really half assed the station part on the get-go. They probably won't care enough to WAIT a year for CCP to release new parts of the station. Total flop idea for getting new subs in.
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Legionos McGuiros
Legio Prima Victrix Imperius Legio Victrix
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Posted - 2011.05.28 13:45:00 -
[345]
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Saerinea Kael
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Posted - 2011.05.28 16:43:00 -
[346]
My love, my anger, and all of my support.
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LuisWu
NullPointException
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Posted - 2011.05.28 18:04:00 -
[347]
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Gareth Goebbelcoque
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Posted - 2011.05.31 20:44:00 -
[348]
This. Alllll this. C'mon CCP
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Bloph
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Posted - 2011.05.31 22:21:00 -
[349]
Def. has my support!
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Lidia Prince
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Posted - 2011.06.01 08:01:00 -
[350]
You have my railgun!
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Ashnazg
Corpse Collection Point
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Posted - 2011.06.10 11:25:00 -
[351]
. |
Althus Treefingers
Voluval Security Services
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Posted - 2011.06.15 03:35:00 -
[352]
Fixed old content is new content as far as I'm concerned.
Promise us one year (two expansions or so) without new ships, new art, new effects. Just revisit all those old game mechanics that have twisted or staled. Balance things out again and uncover the good idea at the core of all those half-baked features.
I've given up on so much of the game that EVE seems much smaller to me now. Reviving the dead branches is as good to me as brand new stuff. Better, even, since it might become good rather than just new.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.06.15 05:30:00 -
[353]
There is no need for us to use 1 racial CQ on all different station because of staged rollouts. This is crap.
I don't want a Minmatar CQ on a Gallente station, nor do I want half finished AUR shop stuff that is temporary until you fix it.
Get your act together CCP.
Supporting OP.
Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody! |
Mag Theron
Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.15 06:41:00 -
[354]
Supported
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Ekserevnitis
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Posted - 2011.06.15 13:50:00 -
[355]
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Proffessor Drake
Astroforge Industries 4U Holdings Inc
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Posted - 2011.06.15 16:21:00 -
[356]
/signed
I do not want any sort of micro transactions in the game. For me no expansion since Apocrypha has done anything to improve the enjoyment i get from this game. I personally understand that from when tha game launched many years ago EVERY EXPANSION / ADD-ON has been FREE because we all pay our subscription charges.
Personally, i feel you are spitting in my face by changing this method of our doing business, me spending my real world money supporting your product.
The day you change your part of that agreement (legal or not) i will vote with my wallet and remove my support from your business model.
Regards,
A Concerned customer
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Brujo Loco
Amarr Brujeria Teologica
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Posted - 2011.06.17 23:49:00 -
[357]
So much truth. As I have mentioned time and time again, CCP's slow crawl to faceless entity mega corp is slowly stripping it of it's soul. The craze for gaining more subbers on a game that from the ground start is made up to appeal to a core specific mindset is doomed to fail from the start. I support this idea --- Viva VENEZUELA!!! Archipelago Theory
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.22 20:49:00 -
[358]
So now that Incarna 1.0 got out... what more proof do you need ?
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Gejja Tokan
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Posted - 2011.06.22 21:54:00 -
[359]
I think they altered their company direction. They did not rush this out.
What should scare you is that they put years into this and rushed everything else to get this done. And it is still...
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Soden Rah
EVE University Ivy League
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Posted - 2011.06.22 22:26:00 -
[360]
+1
It is not possible to release patches that are completly error free in a reasonable amount of time as it takes the mass of people on TQ to find everything...
But Incarna was released with a hoard of defects discovered on the brief time it spent on SiSi before its slated release date...
Builds should be on SiSi longer than a month major issues found on day one of testing should not still exist on patch day. if more time is needed to fix those issues the patch should be delayed. player feedback should be sort in the early design phase, not just the sprint to the finish fix the bugs testing. totally supporting this thread. --------
By Grfmsv÷tn, Eyjafjallaj÷kull, Vatnaj÷kull, and Hekla itself... THIS is my sig.
Support Optional CQ
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FunzzeR
The Wyld Hunt Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.06.22 23:57:00 -
[361]
YES! PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!!
THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!! |
Lynx Amurie
Rage For Order Nihil-Obstat
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Posted - 2011.06.23 01:12:00 -
[362]
I'm certain I've given my +1 to this thread before and I will do it again, because this is far too important for CCP to continue to ignore. Maybe they will (for once) admit to their nonsense, and do something about it instead of writing a devblog and ignoring everything we've screamed about.
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Lisandra Riraille
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2011.06.23 01:16:00 -
[363]
Come on, CCP. People will still play just as much (maybe more) if you do this.
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Dragan Moonraker
Rheinbraun Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.24 18:45:00 -
[364]
I agree with Akita,
that said, the Incarna concept is not what is the most demoralizing part of this patch for me, it's the presence of micro-transactions, and even more so, the plans of selling ships etc directly that was in the newsletter.
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Sarah De'Ath
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Posted - 2011.06.24 19:00:00 -
[365]
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Phoebe Halliwel
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Posted - 2011.06.24 19:36:00 -
[366]
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Lelob
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Posted - 2011.06.24 20:00:00 -
[367]
Supported
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Arbitrator
Nova Runners
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Posted - 2011.06.25 23:16:00 -
[368]
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Drone Marxime
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Posted - 2011.06.26 01:32:00 -
[369]
Quality spaceship game > ponnies dressing up in stations game
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Solstice Project
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Posted - 2011.06.28 11:45:00 -
[370]
i love freckled redheads <3
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Secret Bear
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Posted - 2011.06.28 14:01:00 -
[371]
i believe that quallity is way better than quantity
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TadpoIe
Rabid Sexlexics
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Posted - 2011.06.28 14:32:00 -
[372]
I think eve needs to spend an expansion cycle or 5 on fixing and polishing the exsiting content which would give them an even more shiny base to add their new content. I remember a time before the devs complained about how many lines of code they had to change to make something work in their new dev blogs.
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Linoa Hiroshi
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Posted - 2011.07.01 17:41:00 -
[373]
Edited by: Linoa Hiroshi on 01/07/2011 17:40:50 I support, of course. And CCP must understand the quality is the most important thing for us. More :"free to play" methods, aurum and shiny stupidities are dangerous for the spirit of the game. We want a game with a strong and nice back story, a world complex and interesting. I don't care about facilities, agent without quality and differencies, Incursions randomized... I don't pay each month for a monocle, publicities and pants whitch cost more than two month of gaming...
(Sorry for my english : I hope a french traduction of the client, but no matter about that.)
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Medidranda Livoga
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Posted - 2011.07.02 06:25:00 -
[374]
This post is more relevant than ever to be honest.
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Nude Thought
White Nova Industries AAA Citizens
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Posted - 2011.07.02 10:28:00 -
[375]
Edited by: Nude Thought on 02/07/2011 10:28:54 Even if we have to pay more.
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Obviously Confidential
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Posted - 2011.07.04 09:23:00 -
[376]
Put money into EVE and not elsewhere.
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Explosivesonhand
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Posted - 2011.07.04 09:49:00 -
[377]
Supported.
I'd like a client that works, not something shiny that I can't play the game on.
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.07.04 21:11:00 -
[378]
Sandbox Protection League
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Humpink Omaristos
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Posted - 2011.07.04 21:35:00 -
[379]
Originally by: Akita T Save your money that you spend on advertising, word of mouth got you your userbase, word of mouth WILL KEEP getting you a larger userbase.
When you think about what you wrote for a moment you will come to realize that it has to be incorrect. Unless current users miraculously expand their circle of people they know current users simply don't have anyone else to tell about the game anymore. It has already been done and the word of mouth resource is largely exhausted.
Totally new players don't stick around because frankly the game sucks for them in part due to mechanics in part due to the "community".
Shiny new stuff attracts new customers who were previously outside of the area of influence of existing customers. It is inevitable that in order to maintain growth EVE has to move further from the niche and close to mainstream because mainstream is where the money is. It doesn't matter if they lose your $15/mo if they pick up $150 mainstream dollars a month instead. That should really be obvious. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.07.15 04:05:00 -
[380]
Edited by: Akita T on 15/07/2011 04:11:30 You think ? Let's see...
PEOPLE ONLINE Source : http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/1649/eveonlineuserstrends.png
|___________ Graph below ends about here.
Displayed data : from 16th of March 2006 (more than 5 years ago) to 2011.07.04 (not quite 2 weeks ago). Rough trend hand-penciled in orange.
ACTIVE SUBSCRIPTIONS SOURCE : QEN Q4/2010 http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/5908/evesubcount.png
_______________||================================================== First graph goes about in here then passes over. As you can see, there is an extremely high degree of correlation between average daily online population and number of active subscriptions.
This is a graph merge and align attempt of the above two graphs. Note that the QEN line is a 30-day moving average, while the eve-offline graph is actual online count, so there is a noticeable delay between them, and some extra averaging. http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/9757/evesubsvsonlinemerged.png
An interesting thing that becomes obvious from the above merger is that people used to spend slightly longer time online on average for most of the time before the summer of 2009 (short while after release of Apocrypha), with a brief drop between spring and autumn 2008 before then (between the release of the new Trinity graphics engine and the release of Quantum Rise, all around Empyrean Age). Going by that graph, Quantum Rise has actually been the most (financially) successful EVE-Online expansion !
Another interesting thing is that those that do contribute to the early "spikes" of online counts near expansions are not mostly new players, but rather the majority being older subscribers that just stay online longer OR maybe trial accounts that do not turn into subscribers.
Take that, "shiny new sells, old polish doesn't" !!!
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Rayohth
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Posted - 2011.07.19 18:41:00 -
[381]
I would agree but I dont see how this is a 'new direction' CCP have been rushing stuff out ever since I started playing the game, nothing new really
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.07.21 09:26:00 -
[382]
http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2011/07/not-all-curves-are-pretty.html
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Laxyr
Chamsin Freight Logistics
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Posted - 2011.07.21 10:38:00 -
[383]
Regards, Lax
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Minnie miss
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Posted - 2011.07.21 15:56:00 -
[384]
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.22 00:57:00 -
[385]
Not supported.
I love Incarna; and I love to see more of it, soon. And fixing old stuff first? Sorry to say, but nothing I do is broken, so I'm good. Maybe there's some Sovereignty sh*t going on in 0.0; but, frankly, I don't care about that. Those Alliances are mostly botting RMT-ers to begin with; so, far as I'm concerned, none of CCP's extra time should be spent on them anyway.
-- "All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.09.03 02:16:00 -
[386]
Funny how VV's "scary graph" doesn't look so outrageous anymore right about now... _
Akita T USEFUL EVE LINKS collection |
Living Dead Girl
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Posted - 2011.09.03 03:04:00 -
[387]
Originally by: Akita T
_
We're patient. We can wait. We want quality.
this, THIS A MILLION TIMES THIS
If you do NOTHING ELSE CCP, Keep this in mind, PLEASE.
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Morar Santee
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Posted - 2011.09.03 04:34:00 -
[388]
Funny how this topic becomes more relevant with each patch..
I really wish CCP employees would take your initial post, get over their ADHD, read it very carefully and then put it into practice.
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Zarutha
The Night Crew
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Posted - 2011.09.03 04:39:00 -
[389]
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Ines Tegator
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Posted - 2011.09.03 06:09:00 -
[390]
Supporting OP.
That this hasn't been addressed in so long is disgraceful. Even Blizzard, which receives so much hate for forcing their methods onto players, at least puts out finished products. They have stayed successful for 8 years while the rushed, market researched clones die 6 months after they release. Copy the plan, not the content. Do it right.
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Nur AlHuda
Callide Vulpis
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Posted - 2011.09.03 08:33:00 -
[391]
Full support
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Ad'Hakim Tahous
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Posted - 2011.09.03 10:03:00 -
[392]
Supported
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Jack Charlini
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Posted - 2011.09.03 11:40:00 -
[393]
Supported
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Shaalira D'arc
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Posted - 2011.09.03 12:57:00 -
[394]
Supported.
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Discrodia
Symbiosis International Moose Alliance
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Posted - 2011.09.03 16:04:00 -
[395]
Since all those cancelled subs didn't get the message across... might as well try here anyway.
Originally by: Discrodia For years I said EVE wasn't going to die. I love eating my own words.
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Krystal Flores
Missions Mining and Mayhem Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.09.05 03:56:00 -
[396]
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.09.09 02:29:00 -
[397]
Farewell to the old forums, this being one of the better examples of what this thread is talking about - releasing new shiny junk in the form of the new-patched-upgraded forums that add a bit of functionality but are still far from a decent replacement for these ones for a wide variety of reasons. Most annoying part being, user feedback that kept pouring for half a year was almost entirely ignored or not tackled yet. But we're still forced to abandon these forums. _
Akita T USEFUL EVE LINKS collection |
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