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An overdue apology and request for parley

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 19 post(s)
Aiyeeta Beaver Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Fallen Angels Alliance	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:20:00 - [931] Originally by: CCP Manifest Still reading. Didn't want the lack of my replies (some were actually kinda damn stupid) to make you think I'd left though. I was actually pretty sure you were trolling. I have to admit, 7 years of EVE. I've always held such pride for playing a game where there was actual adrenaline rushes, a steep learning curve, and a genuine sense of lasting friendships. I'm starting to feel more ashamed of it. I think I might switch off subscription and do whatever the hell it is I do off plex for awhile, I don't know if my money is being well spent at this stage... --------------------------------------------------- If you can't say something nice, then let your weapons do the talking...
Cam Clarke Gallente Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:20:00 - [932]
Alexis Sachs	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:21:00 - [933] Originally by: CCP Manifest Still reading. Didn't want the lack of my replies (some were actually kinda damn stupid) to make you think I'd left though. Manifest, I'll give you credit for being here and posting. I still think we need a lot more people burning the midnight oil on this one, starting a real damned dialog with us here. 48 hours and you see how this all got out of hand, so credit for reading and responding. So, for me, I'm seeing two things that some kind of answer would be awesome on... The AUR for more than vanity - is this happening or not? Then my thing - has there been a discussion about changing your collective mind about forcing Incarna/CQ on us or in fact doing what you all always said you would do - leave it as an option for anyone to take advantage of anytime they choose to. I could even like Incarna/CQ so long as I get to choose when and how I'll use it. Sure, I can turn it off now... But for how long? Please please please please please consider making it "forever optional!"
SSN 609 Amarr The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:21:00 - [934] Hello Pann, Its hard being a rep of a company that you don't have control over, and I am very sympathetic to you for the job that you now have to do. However, you also must understand that as a PR spokesman you are here to explain, and to not change anything. While you have considerable skills in communication (which is also my passion), it unfortunately does not equate change. Your hardest job will be to sort through the trash in this thread. Your company must understand that games in todays market die because of a few small bugs, much less major changes, and policies that they have put forth. While I commend you for the quick responses, the only person at this point that could answer to any satisfaction would be the CEO Hilmar. That being said, CCP has some major problems that it needs to be taken care of. When it comes down to CSM and having "open book" development for the players, a newsletter like that completely negates everything that you guys have accomplished. If its "for discussion" then why was it phrased, developed, and then printed in a professional newsletter? I know you, as much as anyone, can appreciate that appearances are everything. And having the appearance of CSM and the appearance of being open have been great, but appearances stop when they don't work. You have been called out on your bluff, and unless you start listening, the player base will leave. Even CCP's other projects will not have success because of it's new reputation. Well in any case I wish you the best in your PR campaigns, I would actually love to get into such a PR campaign, its exciting! Let me know if you have a job opening :P Hopefully CCP stays strong and makes the changes that it needs to survive. On a side note, I hope people aren't looking for the person that leaked it. For anything that you put in print is going to be leaked, its foolish to think otherwise. SSN 609
Ciarente Re-Awakened Technologies Inc	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:21:00 - [935] Dear CCP, First of all, let me disabuse you of the notion that the problem is Originally by: CCP Manifest We've asked you guys to digest a lot of very quick changes and did a suboptimal job at walking beside you during the past month. You are not witnessing 'future shock' by stick-in-the-mud players. The outrage, anger, and for very many players deep sadness is not a reaction to lack of communication about the changes. It is a response to the changes themselves. The fundamental issue for many players, including me, is the clear disconnect between the decisions made by CCP and the players. This goes deeper than any one issue - either the ones raised in the OP in this thread or the ones raised by the newsletter. I'm going to leave the performance issues aside except to note that they were raised by SISI testers. The fact that they exist is one problem: the fact that they were raised with CCP and not addressed before release is a much bigger one. The high cost of goods in the NeX store? My response was not 'oh no, I cannot afford hideously ugly clothing' - because tbh, like many of the people who have posted in the various threads, I can, both IG and IRL. My response was 'CCP thinks I'd pay that? How can they possibly have reached that conclusion with any understanding at all of the game or the games market generally?' The laughable 'RP explanations' for the costing were insult-sauce on the injury-cake. It's expensive because I stick it in my face? Ten times more expensive than the implant I stick in my brain? The devblog said that future customisation options were going to be both funded by, and have demand for assessed by, the sales in the NeX store. As someone who is your core demographic for 'space barbie' - RPer, disposable income IG and IRL, has made vanity purchases in other games' cash stores - and who finds the psychological price-point for purchase from your store too high by a magnitude of at least ten, I wonder just how any more content for the CQ can be afforded. And, given the pricing in the NeX store and the floating of actual game mechanics changing items as purchasable - good grief, if CCP thinks I'll pay $70 local for a virtual vanity monocle, how much will they expect me to pay for an implant that changes my character's performance IG? I would like answers to the following questions: How is CCP assessing the success of the pricing of the NeX items? Are there plans to introduce actual 'microtransaction' vanity items at a later date or does CCP really think an entire plex is a reasonable lower-price limit for players? Does future customisable content depend on the successful sales of current items? Will CCP close the door on sale of game-affecting items through the cash shop or not? If not, will we see EVE go F2P in the future, or is CCP's vision a game that we have to pay to access, and then pay again (and again, and again, and again) for what we do in it? But the big question for me is this one: Does CCP know anything about those of us who pay them to play this game? The lack of understanding of how players would respond to recent events leads me to believe that either they don't, or they have made a decision that we are no longer their target market.
Ghost Miner101	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:21:00 - [936] I know I will probably be in the minority but what the heck, here goes. I like captains quarters... I like the fact that I can escape my kind of crappy life and go somewhere else and vent on some rocks or some npc's. But I also think that in order for eve to do that you need to make sure that it is running well. So balancing the needs of the game to be what it can be and accomidating the needs of the people who can't afford expensive computers is a line that needs to be walked and in this I think that CCP has dropped the ball. I dont even mind not knowing what was coming, made actually reading the patch notes a surprise. But in order for CCP to walk that line they need to let people know what is coming. And I didnt see any of that. I saw a lot of video's (I watched almost all the videos from fanfest) and not a lot of this is what is happening and here is what you will need. And from the size of fanfest it didnt look like CCP needed alot of money. So I am left asking myself why exactly does all this need to be brought in. I know you will probably never see this but if you do I think that you should at least know one thing... In order for us to appreciate what you guys do for us... we need to know what it is... and for you to apprecite our role... you need to know what we are thinking. Anyway... I like Eve, and I will continue to play... but I know I would enjoy knowing where Eve is going even more.
Mehrdad Kor-Azor Amarr Iure Divino	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:21:00 - [937] Originally by: Ahrman Vanaheim Originally by: Reed Tiburon Originally by: TV Evangelist Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items? Follow up: How do you define a Vanity item? The only question(s) that matter. +1 Originally by: Klingon Admiral "Creation is so precious, and greed so destructive." EVE Online: Tyrannis Teaser Summer 2010
Ehronn Caldari Nutz N Boltz	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:21:00 - [938] I would also definitely like to see the ability to gamble with Aurum when the stations are unlocked and we can enter them. Through minigames poker/etc or the 1 arm bandits so we could win aurum or even gamble among other players. Also the ability to purchase special modules that give unique abilities would be cool. And the ability to rent a store/bar with Aurum or set a charge on the door so people wanting to enter have to pay a cover charge xxx aurum to enter. would be cool
Siigari Kitawa Gallente Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:21:00 - [939] Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 24/06/2011 02:21:46 Originally by: Miilla Edited by: Miilla on 24/06/2011 02:19:31 Is there problems at CCP that requires the need to raise more revenue? Uh, YES? They're creating new games and need income to pay the people to design them. Rather than work in debt they are trying to offset the cost to the customers, which in my opinion is okay. How they're doing it in my opinion isn't. Please read this thread for my solution: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1536149 www.siigarikitawa.com ò www.eohpoker.com ò Buy a GTC
Bendy Profane The Red Circle Inc.	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:21:00 - [940] Originally by: Frau Klaps Originally by: CCP Manifest Still reading. Didn't want the lack of my replies (some were actually kinda damn stupid) to make you think I'd left though. I hope mine on page 9 wasn't missed. I didn't feel like crapping up the topic by posting it multiple times like some people Noticed your alarming sensibleposting today. Not being annoyed and agreeing with most of it. The end is coming!
KFenn Percussive Diplomacy The Phoenix. Consortium	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:21:00 - [941] Edited by: KFenn on 24/06/2011 02:22:00 Originally by: Reed Tiburon Originally by: TV Evangelist Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items? Follow up: How do you define a Vanity item? The answer to these questions is the one that we're all hanging on for CCP. ---------------------------------------- Commanding Officer of the Treacle Tart Federation
Vin Hellsing	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:21:00 - [942] CCP Pann, don't forget. While I may not be willing to accept the apology now, I am an open minded person. I know you haven't posted much in recent years on the forums, and that certainly does say something about what's happening. I just hope that CCP will take this seriously and attack the problem at its core, and not superficially.
Akaahn	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:21:00 - [943] Quote: Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?
mobius nm Minmatar Imperativa	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:21:00 - [944] Originally by: CCP Manifest Still reading. Didn't want the lack of my replies (some were actually kinda damn stupid) to make you think I'd left though. Yes, I'm sure all of CCP is watching with rapt attention. That's obviously why you responded with this thread in the middle of the night....when most of your playerbase is asleep. Yep, clearly, you want the most feedback from the widest swath of players impacted by the controversy you introduced. . . . . Yeah, I didn't think so either. Don't worry though, we'll be sure to keep things on topic till the rest of the community wakes up and is privy to your feeble attempts at spin.
Takemikazuki	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:22:00 - [945] Originally by: CCP Pann As I see it, the chief complaint is regarding the high cost of goods in the Nobel Market. Up the price to 100.000 aurums for all I care. But if you want this space gold store to actually be something else than "lolz monoclos", it would probably be a good idea to introduce a line of cheap sombreros and other such for the poor people to wear. Monocles for the rich, sombreros for the rest. Some variety. Originally by: CCP Pann Second, many people are unhappy about the CaptainÆs Quarters. I have no problem with the CQ and I understand the need to introduce Incarna in tiny bits. Just introduce a permanent option not to load the damn thing EVERY FKING TIME I DOCK. A little nice button will do: ENTER STATION, alongside MARKET, FITTING, UNDOCK etc. When there is more to Incarna than sitting at a rusty couch and staring at my own reflection in a mirror while I browse thru a catalogue of overpriced aurumjunk, I may feel the incentive to actually leave my ship from time to time. Don't force it. Allow people to ambulate at their own leisure. Originally by: CCP Pann Third, there are some performance issues with Incarna. I would appreciate it if you would confirm my observations or tell me what IÆm missing, but I do ask that you do it in a productive way. Fourth & most important: there is a storm brewing wherefrom thou will not find any shelter. It is a storm consisting of a swarm of very upset golden geese. If microtransactions as envisioned in FEARLESS are the future of EVE Online - you have some serious work to do before getting CCPs out of the hornets nest that are the emodrama uproar you from now on will face. It will not go away simply by some cheap PR-spin thru a devblog or some 'clever' subterfugey double-communicate psychology tactic where the geese are placated on the forums and by 'promises' while the butcher readies the knife behind the stage.
Los Quinton	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:22:00 - [946] Originally by: Aiyeeta Beaver Originally by: CCP Manifest Still reading. Didn't want the lack of my replies (some were actually kinda damn stupid) to make you think I'd left though. I was actually pretty sure you were trolling. I have to admit, 7 years of EVE. I've always held such pride for playing a game where there was actual adrenaline rushes, a steep learning curve, and a genuine sense of lasting friendships. I'm starting to feel more ashamed of it. I think I might switch off subscription and do whatever the hell it is I do off plex for awhile, I don't know if my money is being well spent at this stage... Relax, you'll be fine in the morning. Just a game.
HostageTaker Gallente Band of Freelancers	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:22:00 - [947] Originally by: CCP Pann Edited by: CCP Pann on 24/06/2011 00:50:29 Hi, everyone Some of you who have been around for a while may remember me. I was the original community manager for EVE. These days, I oversee the PR and Community teams. While most of what I do happens behind the curtains, I am still aware of whatÆs going on front and center. I would be lying if I said that whatÆs happening now didnÆt make me sad, but IÆm not here to ask for your sympathy. To be perfectly honest, IÆm here to buy time while we try to sort things out. No sense in lying about it so I'll call a spade a spade. ItÆs clear that many of you are <understatement alert> angry </alert>. ThereÆs a lot happening, things are changing quickly and we havenÆt been as forthcoming as you were used to in the past. IÆm willing to step out front and take a lot of heat for that since I was the one who made the decision to hold off on responding for a while to see if things cooled down once the new wore off. I was wrong to do that and I apologize. We should have said something much sooner. We should have done more to address your concerns and be forthcoming, even if we werenÆt going to be able to immediately give you all of the answers you were looking for or the answer your questions in ways that will instantly turn those frowns upside down. To be even more candid, I cannot answer all of your questions, either, but I am working with the people who can to start getting those answers for you. Again, I know weÆre doing this past the expiration date of your patience but I hope youÆll bear with me. I know that, with very few exceptions, most of you donÆt know me from Adam. I havenÆt earned your trust or respect; therefore I have no right to ask anything of you û but I am going to try, anyway. Can I please count on at least some of you to help bring the pitchforks and torches down a few notches? Like I said, I wonÆt be able to answer all of your questions tonight, but I promise weÆll start getting some info out tomorrow. As I see it, the chief complaint is regarding the high cost of goods in the Noble Market. Second, many people are unhappy about the CaptainÆs Quarters. Third, there are some performance issues with Incarna. I would appreciate it if you would confirm my observations or tell me what IÆm missing, but I do ask that you do it in a productive way. I will remove posts without prejudice if they are counterproductive to the conversation I hope to have with you. If youÆve read this much, thanks for staying with me. If you have something to say, IÆd like very much to hear it. Humbly yours, ~P~ edited to fix a "doh!" typo 2003 EvE vet here, I remember you Pann. I also remember the things you did and said in the past, you will not regain my trust*.
Onyx Blackman	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:22:00 - [948] Originally by: Ahrman Vanaheim Originally by: Reed Tiburon Originally by: TV Evangelist Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items? Follow up: How do you define a Vanity item? The only question(s) that matter.
Words Words Words	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:22:00 - [949] Originally by: Akaahn Quote: Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?
Mirime Nolwe APOCALYPSE LEGION	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:22:00 - [950] Edited by: Mirime Nolwe on 24/06/2011 02:24:17 The ironic thing is that until this moment the EVE community was know as one of the best and most dedicated in the MMO industry and this is what might "kill" the game. It's crystal clear that CCP do not take the same serious level of development quality to improve EVE like they did in the last years, we just need to check the last content patches to understand this. This behavior is really sad since the company have plenty resources, at least comparing with the first years of the game.. Anyway, i wont talk more about the current issues because CCP already have plenty posts to analyze. I don't trust CCP anymore so main account is canceled (alt account already sleeping for some months) till CCP shows the dedication they had to the game in the past.
Soden Rah Gallente EVE University Ivy League	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:22:00 - [951] Originally by: CCP Manifest Originally by: AdmiralJohn Edited by: AdmiralJohn Do you have any definitive idea of the future of Aurum? Aurum is here to stay. The cycle here isn't changing soon. However, I feel like none of the concerns of the community have been addressed. Worse, I feel like these concerns are being swept under the rug, and even treated with outright contempt. That was not on purpose and I sincerely apologize for that. We've asked you guys to digest a lot of very quick changes and did a suboptimal job at walking beside you during the past month. Dev blogs and test servers and AT interviews and such didn't quite cut it for everything. There is NO contempt against our players.I've witnessed some extreme amounts of exhibited patience for the nastiest of the nasties who have threatened lives, engaged in character assassination and such--and that's because we as developers realize there are a lot of hurt/angry people out there. Features that many players want are ignored, while decisions that are questionable at best are made without regard to the concerns of the community. I won't make excuses for those features we know are much wanted or the ones people want us to go back and "fix". Heck, I want some of them. Soundwave and Eyjo and Dropbear and TonyG and Fallout want them too. BUT, making and designing and creating a game isn't pick and choose, especially when it comes to introducing something like Incarna or devoting significant dev time to rewriting old code backbone so we can grow again in the future. We know the other stuff is wanted. We know Incarna is also wanted and are working towards what many of you have wanted out of it. It just takes time. I don't think that it's too late to save this special little den of internet spaceships and internet spaceship captains; however, this trend cannot go on forever and it has all the signs of fail cascade written all over it. Word. CCP, your players really do care about you and about your game. It would just be nice if the feelings were returned. I could profess my love for each of you and really really mean it. Yes even you back there! But we all know its going to be more about showing you and not just saying it. If AUR is hear to stay then I am gone... also don't put it on us by saying you have made quick changes without explaining them... which you have... but it makes it sound like we don't know or understand what is going on... and when we do we will understand and agree/accept... We do know what is going on, and do understand... I for one will not accept... again it isn't the introduction of Incarna that is the issue It's how you introduced it. and the list of names you mentioned can get their backsides out of bed and in here... -------- By Grfmsv÷tn, Eyjafjallaj÷kull, Vatnaj÷kull, and Hekla itself... THIS is my sig. Support Optional CQ
Salomei	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:22:00 - [952] Edited by: Salomei on 24/06/2011 02:26:57 Edited by: Salomei on 24/06/2011 02:22:47 Rather than "no cash for non-vanity items", can we please get something resembling an exhaustive list of $/PLEX/AUR/ISK/item/benefit combos that are and are not on the table? Examples: When you say you won't do cash for in-game benefits, what exactly does this mean. Which of these are on/off the table (IGB = in-game benefit): direct cash for IGB, not through PLEX/AUR, no ISK for IGB option cash for IGB only through PLEX/AUR, no ISK for IGB no explicit cash for IGB option, but ISK for IGB (de facto PLEX/AUR for IGB)* cash directly for IGB, PLEX/AUR for IGB, and ISK for IGB (add your own) * obviously PLEX for some stuff is already there. Will things like standings and SP be added ever? A good, verbose definition of what you think counts as an in-game benefit would be nice, too. We'd like answers with details.
I Legionnaire Autocannons Anonymous	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:22:00 - [953] Nerf dramiels and ECM while boosting gallente. There, I just made 75% of the PVP crowd playing this game happy with a process that shouldn't take longer than two months to implement. Time to bust out the spreadsheets CCP. ------------ Monocles for nothing, ships for free.
Manos Heimenbarger	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:22:00 - [954] Originally by: Ahrman Vanaheim Originally by: Reed Tiburon Originally by: TV Evangelist Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items? Follow up: How do you define a Vanity item? The only question(s) that matter. And how can we really trust the answer now? Putting it in the agreement is a good idea.
Ahrman Vanaheim Caldari Chimaera Combine Novus Dominatum	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:22:00 - [955] In addition to my previous post, I must say this: I personally 'like' almost everything in Incarna (I know I don't speak for everyone). In fact the new turrets are outstanding, WiS is pretty neat if it gets expanded in the future. MT - we need to know - Vanity only? If not, no subs.
Iurnan Mileghere Singularity Foundation	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:23:00 - [956] FWIW, I do want Incarna. I want it to work well and I don't want anyone else to feel like they have to walk in stations if they'd rather be flying or spinning, but lotsof really do look forward to it. The issue is the non-cosmetic MTs. Don't lose focus.
Selene D'Celeste Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:23:00 - [957] Originally by: Panda Name i know this probably won't be read, but what the hell: again ccp shows its total disconnect from both reality and its own player base. in this fluff of an apology, you completely failed to grasp the true source of what you call "rage". anybody who has any actual learning skills attained in real life isn't "raging" about a damn monocle, or the current resource intensive client. they are "raging" at the implications of your internal memo. the fact that you missed this says enough for me. the best thing is that after a few weeks or months, you'll release some self-affirming "metrics" (cherry picked data) that shows how successful this "iteration" is. given that i actually pvp and thus know how stupid most people who play this game actually are, i'd wager that this tactic will most likely work. well done, ccp. i also would like to ask how it feels to be thrown under a bus by your own employer? if i were you, i would grab as many monocles as i could and run. So many good posts, hard to support them all. Well said. ______________________________
Captain Futur3	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:23:00 - [958] CCP answer this: Why are microtransactions needed in a game where i have to pay 15 Euro per account? So far, only free to play games have microtransactions (with very very very few exceptions) and it feels like a pure ripoff! The sense behind microtransactions is to pay the developerss for their work, but we are already paying for THREE developer teams working on 2 other games than eve. And all of them are bigger than the Eve Developer team. So isnt it time to give us something back in terms of some HUGE addon? Just for an example, you did 2 new ship models in 3 expansions, this clearly shows ME that you just dont care about eve anymore. I bet 10 billion ISK that in the same time, you created about 100 new (at least as complex as the maller) models for the other games. Please answer this question. I will bump and repeat it until some dev says something about this. PS: I dont care about vanity items in general, but i care about the work that is going in the developement of this while there are obviously thousand other more important things to do. Eve needs the artists creating clothes for the remodelling of spaceships!
BeanBagKing Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:23:00 - [959] Quote: Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items? This, but more importantly, whatever your answer, how will we trust you? http://hosted.corelicorp.net/micro.jpg
Vasha Rin	Posted - 2011.06.24 02:23:00 - [960] This has probably been said before, but I will add my voice to the mess here: CCP. Please do not charge real money for gameplay-affecting items. Raise subscriptions a little bit if you must, or sell vanity items only... maybe station goodies like bars and lounges, etc - but let us continue to compete on a roughly equal-opportunity playing field. Thank you. Also please make the UI easier to use, more accessible not LESS as with CQ. It's actually harder to do a lot of things using the avatar then a simple menu button. The new agent finder and such is a good step though.

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Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?

Follow up: How do you define a Vanity item?

Is there problems at CCP that requires the need to raise more revenue?

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?

Follow up: How do you define a Vanity item?

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?

Follow up: How do you define a Vanity item?

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?

Follow up: How do you define a Vanity item?

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?