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Bye Bye lucrative high sec activities.

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Chrono Seeker	Posted - 2011.08.15 13:33:00 - [1] Edited by: Chrono Seeker on 15/08/2011 13:33:49 Some activities that will no longer be available in High sec according to the dev blog: Quote: Sole source of ice and high-end minerals No more Ice in high sec. Quote: Geared towards T2 Our current proposal is that hisec is for volume T1 goods, lowsec will be for meta/faction gear eventually, nullsec is for T2, and wormholes are for T3 Oops, sorry, but we don't want people in high sec doing anything but T1 industry. And no more Meta drops in missions! Quote: Best loot The best loot in the game should come from nullsec. High-end loot's enforced rarity gives a strong "jackpot" moment and tends towards extremely high values, and nullsec should be where you go to get high-value payouts. That Pithum C-type Medium shield booster won't be found in high sec sites anymore. Or any good loot for that matter. Quote: Best agents For further discussion. The best agents in the game should all be in nullsec, in keeping with the "richest area in the game" theme. There should be a clear margin of value for nullsec agents that acts as an enticement for mission runners to move there. No more lvl 4s in high sec it appears. Oops. Sorry mission runners. So it appears that CCP is taking the most lucrative areas of the game and putting them only in null sec. But they deserve it right? No one but huge alliances should be making any sort of good ISK in this game right? Personally I'm going to start buying ICE and resell it all later.
Miss Rabblt	Posted - 2011.08.15 13:40:00 - [2] risk vs reward
Vice Admiral Spreadsheet Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.15 13:40:00 - [3] Originally by: Miss Rabblt risk vs reward
Colt Mitri Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.08.15 13:40:00 - [4] Makes sense, whats the problem?
Thorn Galen Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.08.15 13:43:00 - [5] If this is true, if this happens, then it's game over for me. But - What's the accuracy of these comments ? Which Dev Blog is this coming from ? Is everything which is mentioned in such a Dev Blog verifiable fact, or are these again just ideas ? Maybe a link to the particular Dev blog ? 10qvm.
Smoking Blunts	Posted - 2011.08.15 13:43:00 - [6] lol i doubt they will get rid of lv4 agents in empire.subs are dropping so fast they need teh bears to pay teh bills. making production harder work is just a pita, but if they wanna break things that arnt broken it is just teh same ccp ive come to know over the last 6 years
Jovan Geldon Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire	Posted - 2011.08.15 13:44:00 - [7] I fail to see anything bad about any of this, other than the excessively whiny and self-entitled tone of your post. ---------------
Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.15 13:50:00 - [8] Finally! No more EVE easy-mode. Want the rewards, take risks.
Chrono Seeker	Posted - 2011.08.15 13:50:00 - [9] Originally by: Jovan Geldon I fail to see anything bad about any of this, other than the excessively whiny and self-entitled tone of your post. Good thing I don't do any of those activities then.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.15 13:50:00 - [10] You're making a couple of awfully large assumptions about what counts as high-end/top-of-the-line in those predictions. Alsoà Originally by: Vice Admiral Spreadsheet Originally by: Miss Rabblt risk vs reward ^^ That. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki

Iron Breaker	Posted - 2011.08.15 13:52:00 - [11] If they do this CCP will likely lose half of their suscribers; the half who are not interested in PvP. All of the stuff that was discussed seemes to involve getting peole out into low & null sec. I, and a lot of other people are not interested in PvP, which seems to be something CCP cannot understand. Trying to force us to do something we do not want to do, and expecting us to pay $15 for it, seems like a poor business model.
Wilhelm Riley	Posted - 2011.08.15 13:53:00 - [12] Edited by: Wilhelm Riley on 15/08/2011 13:54:00 Quote: Geared towards T2 Our current proposal is that hisec is for volume T1 goods, lowsec will be for meta/faction gear eventually, nullsec is for T2, and wormholes are for T3 I don't like this, it seems a bit black and white. Feels like they're separating everything into different zones and rather than having one large sandbox, you'll have three or four small sandboxes. Edit: And one of the sandboxes wont have sand at all, it'll just be gravel dirt.
giddymochug Minmatar Oyster Colors	Posted - 2011.08.15 13:55:00 - [13] Nothing like the smell of PLEX in the morning!
Thorn Galen Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.08.15 13:56:00 - [14] Edited by: Thorn Galen on 15/08/2011 13:56:20 Whoaaaa, just a minute. @ the OP, damned stupid way of you putting across information. Just highlight the negative bits and leave out the very, VERY important footnote and I quote direct from the blog : "We're doing these blogs now so we can get as much clear, well-argued feedback as possible before we commit to anything. Please feed us back! Also, to repeat a thing from earlier in big letters, THIS WILL ALL TAKE A LONG-ASS TIME TO HAPPEN. Some of it will be changed or dropped before it ever gets implemented. Some of it will never happen. This is a roadmap, not a production schedule." @ Op - if you do not see the relevance of that final paragraph, please stop posting half-facts which lead to confusion and disinformation. 'Nuff said.
Emiko Luan Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.15 13:56:00 - [15] I have no problems with unsafe space but really the game is pretty much supported by the empire bears, I don't think it's wise to give them nothing to really aim for within the pve field. I was very annoyed at only finding meta 0 stuff when ratting in low sec though... I think mining really needs more tools though, across all sec. --- +Welcome to my world+
stoicfaux Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.15 13:57:00 - [16] Meh, I wouldn't be too worried about it in the short to medium term. IMO, CCP doesn't have enough resources to implement anything but a tiny fraction of the null-sec ideas. Shifting existing resources/features around is "easy", but everything else would require serious re-work and follow up tweaking and balancing. ----- CCP's NeX Pricing Tiers Affordable: One PLEX Mid: 3-4 PLEX Deluxe: Only for "flamboyantly rich capsuleers" Exceptional: ??
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.08.15 13:58:00 - [17] And in the previous blog they state that the null revamp will probably take upwards of five years as the other areas of Eve will need tending at the same time. Guess how much can/will change in five bloody years! PS: Paranoia and hurt feelings can both be medicated these days.
Miranda Nebail	Posted - 2011.08.15 14:00:00 - [18] It's not ideal proposals, but is well intended... Ideally, though, empire should be kept as it is... and 0.0 should be MUCH more profitable (yet, killing the moons profits), thus, making empire rewards (lvl4's, etc) insignificant in comparison. Thus, carebears in empire will be happy, and 0.0 dwellers will be happy too. I totally agree, though, ice should be removed of empire, though. Make it like, dunno, the empires hoarded it for themselves, or something. Not only helps the game... it fricking makes sense, story wise.
TharOkha	Posted - 2011.08.15 14:02:00 - [19] I agree with that "risk vs reward" thing, but why everything to nullsec? Everybody knows that most of the null is napfest and the only "wild" and most dangerous space are lowsec and wormholes. Putting best stuff in null will only boost large alliances to be even more ritchier as they are now. If you add more non claimable null-sec regions (like great wildlands without any stations) and put best loot there, then im pro.
Bronden Neopatus	Posted - 2011.08.15 14:07:00 - [20] Originally by: Iron Breaker If they do this CCP will likely lose half of their suscribers; the half who are not interested in PvP. All of the stuff that was discussed seemes to involve getting peole out into low & null sec. I, and a lot of other people are not interested in PvP, which seems to be something CCP cannot understand. Trying to force us to do something we do not want to do, and expecting us to pay $15 for it, seems like a poor business model. This, which means OP is full of bull. The devblog is about nullsec evolution, not about "let's tell half our suscribers that they can pretty much go play another game". It's like the neverending "move X to lowsec" nonsense, or how risking 100 ISK to get 1 should be appealing to any carebear with half a functioning brain just because they tell you so. Wanna see people in lowsec? Make those Lvl 5 missions worth 150 million a piece & have the agents hand out only 1 each 24 hours per corporation and/or player.

Emiko Luan Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.15 14:09:00 - [21] moving ice to grav sites only would probably be better than removing it completely... more mining options is always good. --- +Welcome to my world+
Mokokan	Posted - 2011.08.15 14:11:00 - [22] Maybe this will help some of you understand. If you've ever played any version of SIM CITY, you know that no matter how much time and how much energy, creativity, and determination you put into building your masterpiece of a city.......you just can't resist turning Godzilla/Sansha loose on your creation. The next time it might be aliens or earthquakes. It's pretty obvious CCP likes to knock our buildings down every once and a while. We're their SIM CITY, their Ant Farm, their entertainment. Stop thinking of CCP as warm fuzzy carebears, They're the Gankers of the MMO universe.
Zagam	Posted - 2011.08.15 14:14:00 - [23] Originally by: Wilhelm Riley Edited by: Wilhelm Riley on 15/08/2011 13:54:00 Quote: Geared towards T2 Our current proposal is that hisec is for volume T1 goods, lowsec will be for meta/faction gear eventually, nullsec is for T2, and wormholes are for T3 I don't like this, it seems a bit black and white. Feels like they're separating everything into different zones and rather than having one large sandbox, you'll have three or four small sandboxes. Edit: And one of the sandboxes wont have sand at all, it'll just be gravel dirt. uh... you DO realize that you can trade between hisec, lowsec, and nullsec, right? ---------.oOo.---------- Chaos, Madness, and Destruction. My work here is done.
Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.15 14:18:00 - [24] Clearly, some people want to keep playing EVE easy-mode, while getting all the rewards.
Sarmatiko	Posted - 2011.08.15 14:23:00 - [25] Edited by: Sarmatiko on 15/08/2011 14:28:01 Originally by: Miss Rabblt risk vs reward Wait you mean bot Raven hunter/anomaly cleaner that lives in rented 0.0 system and warps out to POS in seconds after you show up in local, risking with something? Did they just proposed to increase even more profits to all those illegal farmers that live now in nullsec? Nullsec anomalies with expeditions unprofitable? Cap construction unprofitable? Nullsec pirate agents LP shops unprofitable? Unprofitable my ass/ Seriously, lots of sweet dreaming in this blog. It all end like they ruin lot of things first, then some new dudes from Team CleanTheMess will bear and fix the consequences of "null fixes". It's CCP after all.
Zagam	Posted - 2011.08.15 14:24:00 - [26] Originally by: Rikeka Clearly, some people want to keep playing EVE easy-mode, while getting all the rewards. Exactly. They want to have their cake, and eat it, too. They also want a selection of cakes handed to them on a silver platter, free of charge, with exactly 42 sprinkles on top of each one, or they will quit EVE.
Thornat	Posted - 2011.08.15 14:24:00 - [27] Most of these thing re-enforce the basic concept on which CCP was founded. Its a game for the bold. Hiding in a hanger in high sec is where we all start, its not where the game ends. Unfortunatly for so many out there the fear of risking something... anything at all, is overwhelming and what they are doing here is trying to discourage that kind of thinking. Frankly I was suprised that some of these things aren't already as described, I didnt even know their where level 4 agents in high sec to be honest and I have been playing for 6 years. Anywho, ya this will force people out of their nests if they want to continue with some of these activites and I think its a good thing. It might be kind of against the will to some extent but I mean frankly there are waaay to many people in this game that benefit from null sec and low sec activites but don't contribute to them in any way. And frankly I disagree with that approach. If you want to BIG score you need to go out and put something on the line for it. Risk vs. Reward, I'm behind that all the way.
Iron Breaker	Posted - 2011.08.15 14:26:00 - [28] Originally by: Bronden Neopatus Wanna see people in lowsec? Make those Lvl 5 missions worth 150 million a piece & have the agents hand out only 1 each 24 hours per corporation and/or player. Level 5's would not get me to bother with the low-sec head aches. But I mightg risk a mining crewser out to low sec for a chance at better minerals. The way it is set up now is silly. Why would anyone risk a mining ship in low sec when the same minerals are aviable in high sec? Unless there is somehting out there I am unaware of; mining in low sec is a wast of time with all the gankers out there. If they want small timers like myself to venture to low sec. but small amounts of Zydrean and/or Megasite out there.
Signal11th	Posted - 2011.08.15 14:27:00 - [29] Originally by: Miss Rabblt risk vs reward I know everyone keeps saying risk vs reward but to be honest to anyone who has lived in 0.0 like myself will tell you 0.0 is actually a very safe place to be.
RAW23	Posted - 2011.08.15 14:29:00 - [30] For all the risk vs. reward posters: How much isk do you actually lose through combat and the threat of combat in a week? My, admittedly limited, experience of null is that people will lose ships now and again, which is hardly surprising since people go to null SO THEY CAN PVP, but not with the kind of regularity that causes any serious financial impact (most fleet losses also get reimbursed by alliances from the vast isk flow from that ultra high risk activity, moon-mining). So, I can see the need to have some extra cool stuff in null to compensate for the limited risks. But the idea that people who want to spend their time PvPing should receive huge rewards for doing what they already want to do, and that all those who don't want to PvP should be penalised for wanting to play the game their own way seems like a steaming crock of **** to me. Of course, if someone can enlighten me on the great burdens and sufferings that I neither experienced in null and have not ever had mentioned to me by those friends of mine who have spent many years there, I would greatly appreciate the lesson.

Thornat	Posted - 2011.08.15 14:29:00 - [31] Originally by: Signal11th Originally by: Miss Rabblt risk vs reward I know everyone keeps saying risk vs reward but to be honest to anyone who has lived in 0.0 like myself will tell you 0.0 is actually a very safe place to be. Correction. Corps and Alliance make it a safe place for their corp members and alliance members. Its something players create for themselves. Come in my wormhole and I will show you how nulls sec is not safe for you.
Delianora	Posted - 2011.08.15 14:30:00 - [32] I might actually start logging in if they fix the rampant printing of riskless isk in the game.
Signal11th	Posted - 2011.08.15 14:33:00 - [33] Edited by: Signal11th on 15/08/2011 14:36:52 Edited by: Signal11th on 15/08/2011 14:35:42 Originally by: Thornat Originally by: Signal11th Originally by: Miss Rabblt risk vs reward I know everyone keeps saying risk vs reward but to be honest to anyone who has lived in 0.0 like myself will tell you 0.0 is actually a very safe place to be. Correction. Corps and Alliance make it a safe place for their corp members and alliance members. Its something players create for themselves. Come in my wormhole and I will show you how nulls sec is not safe for you. I'm already in a Wormhole at the moment?? Your point being? You think because your in a Wormhole everyone else isn't? I know how "slightly" more dangerous a wormhole is. Wormholes are more dangerous and alot more profitable hence the reason I'm making more in WH's than I did in 0.0 In my previous post I'm just tired of people saying your taking a huge risk going to 0.0 when in fact sometimes its safer than high-sec.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2011.08.15 14:54:00 - [34] Originally by: Miss Rabblt risk vs reward Only valid if local in 0.0 DIAFs in a fire. Fortunately, Originally by: blevdog Intel Time - gathering intelligence should not be quick.
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:00:00 - [35] Originally by: Chrono Seeker Edited by: Chrono Seeker on 15/08/2011 13:43:44 Edited by: Chrono Seeker on 15/08/2011 13:33:49 Some activities that will no longer be available in High sec according to the dev blog: Quote: Sole source of ice and high-end minerals No more Ice in high sec. Quote: Geared towards T2 Our current proposal is that hisec is for volume T1 goods, lowsec will be for meta/faction gear eventually, nullsec is for T2, and wormholes are for T3 Oops, sorry, but we don't want people in high sec doing anything but T1 industry. And no more Meta drops in missions! Quote: Best loot The best loot in the game should come from nullsec. High-end loot's enforced rarity gives a strong "jackpot" moment and tends towards extremely high values, and nullsec should be where you go to get high-value payouts. That Pithum C-type Medium shield booster won't be found in high sec sites anymore. Or any good loot for that matter. Quote: Best agents For further discussion. The best agents in the game should all be in nullsec, in keeping with the "richest area in the game" theme. There should be a clear margin of value for nullsec agents that acts as an enticement for mission runners to move there. No more lvl 4s in high sec it appears. Oops. Sorry mission runners. So it appears that CCP is taking the most lucrative areas of the game and putting them only in null sec. But they deserve it right? No one but huge alliances should be making any sort of good ISK in this game right? Personally I'm going to start buying ICE and resell it all later. You say all this like it's a bad thing. It should have been like this from the very beginning! ... Return the Old Hangar Back... for Immersion.
Nyio Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:01:00 - [36] And here I was hoping for more/better stuff in highsec. oh well..
mechtech SRS Industries SRS.	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:01:00 - [37] About damn time.
DoctorDanny TunDraGon	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:02:00 - [38] Edited by: DoctorDanny on 15/08/2011 15:02:45 Originally by: Chrono Seeker Edited by: Chrono Seeker on 15/08/2011 13:43:44 Edited by: Chrono Seeker on 15/08/2011 13:33:49 Some activities that will no longer be available in High sec according to the dev blog: Quote: Sole source of ice and high-end minerals No more Ice in high sec. Quote: Geared towards T2 Our current proposal is that hisec is for volume T1 goods, lowsec will be for meta/faction gear eventually, nullsec is for T2, and wormholes are for T3 Oops, sorry, but we don't want people in high sec doing anything but T1 industry. And no more Meta drops in missions! Quote: Best loot The best loot in the game should come from nullsec. High-end loot's enforced rarity gives a strong "jackpot" moment and tends towards extremely high values, and nullsec should be where you go to get high-value payouts. That Pithum C-type Medium shield booster won't be found in high sec sites anymore. Or any good loot for that matter. Quote: Best agents For further discussion. The best agents in the game should all be in nullsec, in keeping with the "richest area in the game" theme. There should be a clear margin of value for nullsec agents that acts as an enticement for mission runners to move there. No more lvl 4s in high sec it appears. Oops. Sorry mission runners. So it appears that CCP is taking the most lucrative areas of the game and putting them only in null sec. But they deserve it right? No one but huge alliances should be making any sort of good ISK in this game right? Personally I'm going to start buying ICE and resell it all later. I'm a low sec ganker and I endorse this message.
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:04:00 - [39] Originally by: Signal11th Edited by: Signal11th on 15/08/2011 14:36:52 Edited by: Signal11th on 15/08/2011 14:35:42 Originally by: Thornat Originally by: Signal11th I know everyone keeps saying risk vs reward but to be honest to anyone who has lived in 0.0 like myself will tell you 0.0 is actually a very safe place to be. Correction. Corps and Alliance make it a safe place for their corp members and alliance members. Its something players create for themselves. Come in my wormhole and I will show you how nulls sec is not safe for you. I'm already in a Wormhole at the moment?? Your point being? You think because your in a Wormhole everyone else isn't? I know how "slightly" more dangerous a wormhole is. Wormholes are more dangerous and alot more profitable hence the reason I'm making more in WH's than I did in 0.0 In my previous post I'm just tired of people saying your taking a huge risk going to 0.0 when in fact sometimes its safer than high-sec. TBH I'm sick of seeing people claim that 0.0 is safe, or, even more absurd, that it is safer than highsec. There is a lot you can do in nullsec (and even wh space) to MINIMIZE the risk, but these are all things that cost a lot of isk, or a lot of time/people (and therefore, isk). It may be fairly easy not to lose ships often in nullsec if you're very experienced in doing so, but even if that is the case, you still take a much larger risk by being out there than you would in highsec. The fact that the isk you can make while in concord protected space rivals the isk you can make in nullsec is absurd.
Wacktopia Sicarius. Legion of The Damned.	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:07:00 - [40] Originally by: Chrono Seeker Edited by: Chrono Seeker on 15/08/2011 13:43:44 Edited by: Chrono Seeker on 15/08/2011 13:33:49 Some activities that will no longer be available in High sec according to the dev blog: Quote: Sole source of ice and high-end minerals No more Ice in high sec. Sounds cool. Originally by: Chrono Seeker Quote: Geared towards T2 Our current proposal is that hisec is for volume T1 goods, lowsec will be for meta/faction gear eventually, nullsec is for T2, and wormholes are for T3 Oops, sorry, but we don't want people in high sec doing anything but T1 industry. And no more Meta drops in missions! Sounds cool. Originally by: Chrono Seeker Quote: Best loot The best loot in the game should come from nullsec. High-end loot's enforced rarity gives a strong "jackpot" moment and tends towards extremely high values, and nullsec should be where you go to get high-value payouts. That Pithum C-type Medium shield booster won't be found in high sec sites anymore. Or any good loot for that matter. Sounds cool too. I plex'ed in low sec for ages with good rewards. Anyone else can do the same. Originally by: Chrono Seeker Quote: Best agents For further discussion. The best agents in the game should all be in nullsec, in keeping with the "richest area in the game" theme. There should be a clear margin of value for nullsec agents that acts as an enticement for mission runners to move there. No more lvl 4s in high sec it appears. Oops. Sorry mission runners. Doesnt say no L4's in hi-sec just more rewards in low sec. I welcome this as I run L4's in low sec and the chance of being ganked is real so why shouldn't the reward be better too? Originally by: Chrono Seeker So it appears that CCP is taking the most lucrative areas of the game and putting them only in null sec. But they deserve it right? No one but huge alliances should be making any sort of good ISK in this game right? Personally I'm going to start buying ICE and resell it all later. Bring on the risk, baby. Times will change for the NPC-corp hi sec bears. Become a bear will balls! Big bear balls. YEAH!

RAW23	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:10:00 - [41] Originally by: Cambarus TBH I'm sick of seeing people claim that 0.0 is safe, or, even more absurd, that it is safer than highsec. There is a lot you can do in nullsec (and even wh space) to MINIMIZE the risk, but these are all things that cost a lot of isk, or a lot of time/people (and therefore, isk). It may be fairly easy not to lose ships often in nullsec if you're very experienced in doing so, but even if that is the case, you still take a much larger risk by being out there than you would in highsec. The fact that the isk you can make while in concord protected space rivals the isk you can make in nullsec is absurd. Don't you think the trillions of isk passively generated each month in moon mins might compensate and then some for the isk costs of making space safe?
Nikodiemus Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:10:00 - [42] Who the hell mines ice?
Meryl SinGarda Caldari Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:11:00 - [43] Edited by: Meryl SinGarda on 15/08/2011 15:16:11 Yeah but what about the people who don't care about 0.0? I can deal with low-sec and wormholes, 0.0 means nothing to me. The people supporting this are just emo nullsec bears that sit around all day wondering why no one wants to play with them. Fly safe, Die hard
M'ktakh	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:12:00 - [44] Calling Akita T, calling Akita T.
Jayem See Caldari Doing The Business	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:18:00 - [45] To be honest - who gives a tiny rats ass? Hi sec allows people to make isk to PvP. PvP is good. Therefore hi sec is good! Crap logic, craply applied. The point remains tho that a balance is needed. The "Elite" folks who claim that hi sec is bad, are relying on their logistics guys to bring them the very stuff they need, to keep doing what they do. From hi sec. Jump freighters anyone? I like hi sec - I like low sec - I like null. All of them has their place. I just hope CCP don't screw it all up trying to FORCE people somewhere they don't want to be. It's a sandbox. In case you didn't get that - it's a sandbox. Whatever - Not Interested TBH
Vaako Horizon	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:20:00 - [46] The fault CCP is making is assuming everyone likes pvp or even has the time for it. I am online around 5 hours / week in total. If I am to do anything interesting in that time I want to do it without the chance to loose it all. In the direction CCP is heading I guess I will loose that chance to even afford a BS :P
Oosel The Riot Formation KRYSIS.	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:22:00 - [47] so what if it all gets moved out to 0.0 for those who dont want a part of it they will just go and do lvl3's instead as long as it means you dont have to get involved in gank fests or 0.0 politics then fair play to them. you will not force people into 0.0 no matter how much you take away from high sec because for a very large portion of eves playerbase the pain that is 0.0 and low sec will never appeal. why do you think loads of 0.0 players have alts in high sec just because they want a break and heres the big bit and some fun without the hassle of 0.0 so what if you dont earn billions as long as you still enjoy the game then let the 0.0 guys have it all because i know some days when i have an hour only to play then high sec gives me my eve fix and 0.0 will never provide that
Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:27:00 - [48] Edited by: Rikeka on 15/08/2011 15:27:39 High Sec: -Should stay as it is, regarding missions, -Agents in low sec, though, should pay way more, -There should be no ice-fields in high sec, Low Sec: -Should be more profitable, regarding mining and missioning, -There should be low yield ice-fields in low sec, 0.0: -Mining should be way more profitable, -Delayed local? If only for 30 seconds, -Better agents, better rewards, more isk, a 0.0 dweller should earn MUCH more than a empire dweller, not just 10-15% more the ISK, but with 1000% more risks, -Moons profit should be cut to a fraction, or better yet, moon goo should be cyclical, meaning you may found Tech now, crap next week. How this changes and to what should be random, so random not even devs know where the valuable minerals end up. This would also create a true market for moon minerals (moons goo prices would suffer great price changes, depending on the availability of the minerals every so often), and would create jobs like "moon probers", WH's: -Should stay as it is. -Maybe make POS's require less fuel than in normal space (20-25% less?) General Ideas: -Remove guns from Titans and Supercarriers, make fighters and bombers impossible to lock structures? -DD's every 1 hour, not 10 minutes (or less dmg, making it impossible to 1-shot a normal cap). -Make SC's susceptible to some kinds of e-war? (maybe no warp disruptor, but dampeners, tracking disruptors, jammers, etc?)
Hayley Magiliska	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:27:00 - [49] how about existing empire rewards stay the same as they are now so the empire pubbies are kept quiet. Then, just provide new stuff in low and nullsec which generates progressively more isk?
Jayem See Caldari Doing The Business	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:27:00 - [50] Originally by: Oosel so what if it all gets moved out to 0.0 for those who dont want a part of it they will just go and do lvl3's instead as long as it means you dont have to get involved in gank fests or 0.0 politics then fair play to them. you will not force people into 0.0 no matter how much you take away from high sec because for a very large portion of eves playerbase the pain that is 0.0 and low sec will never appeal. why do you think loads of 0.0 players have alts in high sec just because they want a break and heres the big bit and some fun without the hassle of 0.0 so what if you dont earn billions as long as you still enjoy the game then let the 0.0 guys have it all because i know some days when i have an hour only to play then high sec gives me my eve fix and 0.0 will never provide that My eyes - god save my eyes. Nice sentiment though. Whatever - Not Interested TBH

Vaako Horizon	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:29:00 - [51] Originally by: Oosel so what if it all gets moved out to 0.0 for those who dont want a part of it they will just go and do lvl3's instead as long as it means you dont have to get involved in gank fests or 0.0 politics then fair play to them. you will not force people into 0.0 no matter how much you take away from high sec because for a very large portion of eves playerbase the pain that is 0.0 and low sec will never appeal. why do you think loads of 0.0 players have alts in high sec just because they want a break and heres the big bit and some fun without the hassle of 0.0 so what if you dont earn billions as long as you still enjoy the game then let the 0.0 guys have it all because i know some days when i have an hour only to play then high sec gives me my eve fix and 0.0 will never provide that If we high sec pve runners get thrown down to lvl 3 missions it goes towards pointless and then its time to leave the game. Its a game about flying spaceships ( among other things ) but we high sec'er arent even allowed to fly some of the ships :P I whould be happy to pay a little extra for a non pvp subscription which allowed my immunity from it and total banishment from pvp. ( including account punishment if I was ever found to be involved in pvp in any way/shape/form )
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:29:00 - [52] Hmm, just read your report.. Yep, all seems to make sense to me. If you want the big rewards, take the big risks. Oh and the guy who posted about losses not really being that high, just a few ships here and there, go take a look at a few battle reports. MM and Evoke lost about 10 billion each last night in 2 individual engagements. Seems a fairly large sum to me. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Miranda Nebail	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:30:00 - [53] Originally by: Oosel so what if it all gets moved out to 0.0 for those who dont want a part of it they will just go and do lvl3's instead as long as it means you dont have to get involved in gank fests or 0.0 politics then fair play to them. you will not force people into 0.0 no matter how much you take away from high sec because for a very large portion of eves playerbase the pain that is 0.0 and low sec will never appeal. why do you think loads of 0.0 players have alts in high sec just because they want a break and heres the big bit and some fun without the hassle of 0.0 so what if you dont earn billions as long as you still enjoy the game then let the 0.0 guys have it all because i know some days when i have an hour only to play then high sec gives me my eve fix and 0.0 will never provide that Acid on my eyes. If you truly think 0.0 players have alts in empire because they want to have fun, you truly have no idea of what the hell you are talking about. Are we even talking about the same game?
Taseer	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:33:00 - [54] Edited by: Taseer on 15/08/2011 15:33:56 Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: Cambarus TBH I'm sick of seeing people claim that 0.0 is safe, or, even more absurd, that it is safer than highsec. There is a lot you can do in nullsec (and even wh space) to MINIMIZE the risk, but these are all things that cost a lot of isk, or a lot of time/people (and therefore, isk). It may be fairly easy not to lose ships often in nullsec if you're very experienced in doing so, but even if that is the case, you still take a much larger risk by being out there than you would in highsec. The fact that the isk you can make while in concord protected space rivals the isk you can make in nullsec is absurd. Don't you think the trillions of isk passively generated each month in moon mins might compensate and then some for the isk costs of making space safe? Trillions of isk split between how many people? And that isk actually IS at risk, because there is little, if anything, from stopping someone else from taking it from you.
daddys helper	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:34:00 - [55] Originally by: Rikeka Finally! No more bears to shoot. Want the rewards, take risks. RvR works both ways, or should what is the risk to a fleet camping the gate as opposed to the risk of the victim running mish in a 500m t3 boat? people here love bandying around the phrase risk vs reward, but why is all the risk one-sided?
Miss Rabblt	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:36:00 - [56] Originally by: Sarmatiko Originally by: Miss Rabblt risk vs reward Wait you mean bot Raven hunter/anomaly cleaner that lives in rented 0.0 system and warps out to POS in seconds after you show up in local, risking with something? problem is bot Raven hunter doesn't need to warp to POS in high-sec. Use t2 gear and your bot completely safely makes you bounty 23 hours a day. I agree 0.0 sov isn't such a danger place as it supposed to be. It really needs some kind of NPC danger in case of poor people nature and absence of pvp danger there. However "risk vs reward"
Aqriue Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:36:00 - [57] Sounds like OP put sand and lemon juice in their eyes, then glanced over the entire post while holding it up to a mirror so it was read backwards. ITS IDEAS TO BUFF NULLSEC!!! No, level 4s are not being moved to nullsec. In fact looking at agent finder lists 241 nullsec agents and another 12 agents in highsec under epic status in highsec with no level 5s in null at all. Wow, so you add more level 4s to nullsec because 241 spread among a handful of NPC regions does not quanitfy high levels of epic rewards, add level 5 agents to nullsec with larger alliances capping down the system meaning fleet engagements much akin to incursions and lots of missions to pool together, or add a new category similar to the epic status that pays even more. ***, ideas galore but "move to lowsec, cause there is zero risk involved" would mean revamping the other half of the basic core of the game (which, if the last 3 expansions is any indication they won't bother but add more stupid test crap to EVE for Dust and WoD). Simple put PVE and* PVP, a solo PVP ship will die fast to NPC lacking a repper just so much as a PVE ship lacking a buffer and 2 damage resists can take on PVP ships. Originally by: Rikeka Clearly, some people want to keep playing EVE easy-mode, while getting all the rewards. Highsec does not pay out rewards, it pays out. Its not epic proportions, its a min-wage job to keep the skill que grind in the back of your mind. You have access to all the same content I do, I choose what I want to do and you are welcome to participate in anything you want be it highsec level 4s or lowsec level 5s. You want to play hardball EVE? Let me explain it real simple. 1. Control + left mouse click ship 2. F1 3. Shut off CONCORD notification pop up. 4. ???? 5. PROFIT!!! Thats it, get over the fact that any time you can attack another player and skies the limit. I choose to avoid PVP and lulsec/dullsec, because I don't want to play hardmode boring ass grind daily reset 23/7 because its so easy to destroy a ship. I do not want to spend hours making random book marks while getting shot at, I want to spend time uninterrupted then dodge being shot at with them. I do not want to start from scratch over again, already made the trip once. I do not want to spend my time aquiring enough isk to barely afford a single ship, only to loose it as soon as I undock to boring 1999 EQ1 consepts of camping, snaring, and level loss. You want hard mode? Try this: Loose your ship, get pod popped, then undock without updating your clone while you empty your wallet and destroy all your assets. BAM! Reset, let me know how much fun that is. I choose to avoid PVP and will participate when I feel like it, but at anytime you can come along and destroy my marauder if you choose; but you will have to accept the fact that it won't be easy and will cost you a loss to CONCORD as I ply along collecting min-wage rewards
Jayem See Caldari Doing The Business	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:38:00 - [58] Originally by: Taseer Edited by: Taseer on 15/08/2011 15:33:56 Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: Cambarus TBH I'm sick of seeing people claim that 0.0 is safe, or, even more absurd, that it is safer than highsec. There is a lot you can do in nullsec (and even wh space) to MINIMIZE the risk, but these are all things that cost a lot of isk, or a lot of time/people (and therefore, isk). It may be fairly easy not to lose ships often in nullsec if you're very experienced in doing so, but even if that is the case, you still take a much larger risk by being out there than you would in highsec. The fact that the isk you can make while in concord protected space rivals the isk you can make in nullsec is absurd. Don't you think the trillions of isk passively generated each month in moon mins might compensate and then some for the isk costs of making space safe? Trillions of isk split between how many people? And that isk actually IS at risk, because there is little, if anything, from stopping someone else from taking it from you. No, I think it's bo-locks. It's a block on the way that the rest of Eve works. Nothing else is so fixed so why should moon-goo be. I don't like it personally. I don't like that it affects me and it isn't regional/changeable/non-static like everything else. Frankly it's wrong. Whatever - Not Interested TBH
Miss Rabblt	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:41:00 - [59] Originally by: RAW23 Don't you think the trillions of isk passively generated each month in moon mins might compensate and then some for the isk costs of making space safe? are those trillions in your wallet? my wallet doesn't know them. I live in 0.0 but i make money "active way". "Trillions" come to alliance. But risk in 0.0 belongs to regular citizens.
Oosel The Riot Formation KRYSIS.	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:43:00 - [60] Originally by: Vaako Horizon Originally by: Oosel so what if it all gets moved out to 0.0 for those who dont want a part of it they will just go and do lvl3's instead as long as it means you dont have to get involved in gank fests or 0.0 politics then fair play to them. you will not force people into 0.0 no matter how much you take away from high sec because for a very large portion of eves playerbase the pain that is 0.0 and low sec will never appeal. why do you think loads of 0.0 players have alts in high sec just because they want a break and heres the big bit and some fun without the hassle of 0.0 so what if you dont earn billions as long as you still enjoy the game then let the 0.0 guys have it all because i know some days when i have an hour only to play then high sec gives me my eve fix and 0.0 will never provide that If we high sec pve runners get thrown down to lvl 3 missions it goes towards pointless and then its time to leave the game. Its a game about flying spaceships ( among other things ) but we high sec'er arent even allowed to fly some of the ships :P I whould be happy to pay a little extra for a non pvp subscription which allowed my immunity from it and total banishment from pvp. ( including account punishment if I was ever found to be involved in pvp in any way/shape/form ) you can still fly those ships if you want it would just take you longer and ive asked myself a lot how bad would it have to be before i left but for me nothing comes close to my eve experience even lvl3 missions would entertain id just use a smaller ship..... the shiney stuff is nice but how often do most people put that on line in pvp. i play in both 0.0 and high sec but once lvl4's go to 0.0 ill park the shiney stuff up and probably spend more time in the cheaper stuff in 0.0 because no matter how much spin you put on 0.0 lvl4's in 0.0 will never happen for most people as its pve you wont make a predominantly pve playerbase want to engage in pvp no matter how lucrative because its never going to appeal to them

Black Dranzer Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:45:00 - [61] Honestly? Good. We have it too damned easy as it is.
Bootleg Jack Potters Field	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:45:00 - [62] They want to encourage more new players to buy PLEX.
RAW23	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:46:00 - [63] Originally by: Taseer Edited by: Taseer on 15/08/2011 15:33:56 Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: Cambarus TBH I'm sick of seeing people claim that 0.0 is safe, or, even more absurd, that it is safer than highsec. There is a lot you can do in nullsec (and even wh space) to MINIMIZE the risk, but these are all things that cost a lot of isk, or a lot of time/people (and therefore, isk). It may be fairly easy not to lose ships often in nullsec if you're very experienced in doing so, but even if that is the case, you still take a much larger risk by being out there than you would in highsec. The fact that the isk you can make while in concord protected space rivals the isk you can make in nullsec is absurd. Don't you think the trillions of isk passively generated each month in moon mins might compensate and then some for the isk costs of making space safe? Trillions of isk split between how many people? And that isk actually IS at risk, because there is little, if anything, from stopping someone else from taking it from you. Moon goo clearly provides an excess of isk. Alliances are generally able to cover their fleet battle losses, create huge amounts of infrastructure, build outposts in large numbers of systems, as well as line the directors' pockets. This might apply in varying degrees to different alliances but it can't be denied that these huge isk sources mitigate many of the costs of life in null.
Lady Go Diveher The Independent Troll Society	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:48:00 - [64] Anyone who thinks all the bots are in null, hasn't been past a highsec mission hub in a while. Go check out Irjunen some day. Or a highsec icefield. Or a regular highsec belt. Or a highsec trade hub. Removing some ISK generation from highsec will actually REMOVE ISK from 0.0 alliances, who would be stupid to endlessly bot 0.0 when they can do so risk free in Irjunen. Anyone who can't see this is effectively naive to the mechanics involved. Risk vs Reward should always prevail. Nullsec is only "safe" in parts because a lot of time, effort and ISK goes into making it so. When 80+% of the game's characters are in highsec, the boring as **** risk-free space, there is CLEARLY a need to incentivize other areas of space. -------
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:51:00 - [65] Originally by: Iron Breaker If they do this CCP will likely lose half of their suscribers; the half who are not interested in PvP. All of the stuff that was discussed seemes to involve getting peole out into low & null sec. I, and a lot of other people are not interested in PvP, which seems to be something CCP cannot understand. Trying to force us to do something we do not want to do, and expecting us to pay $15 for it, seems like a poor business model. I agree. Watching this company, CCP, is an exercise in figuring out just when and in what way theyÆll self-destruct. IÆm sure there are wagering pools somewhere.
Mirime Nolwe APOCALYPSE LEGION	Posted - 2011.08.15 15:55:00 - [66] Edited by: Mirime Nolwe on 15/08/2011 15:55:55 How can CCP employees are so damn stupid, they are destroying the game even more. Low sec and 0.0 aren't big enough, if all highsec dwellers move to those regions the game will implode. Lowsec should be like it is at the moment population wise, can all of you guys that approve this kind of changes stop for a minute to think? If most of highsec move to low it will be a blobfest, it will be even harder to make any kind of profit. CPP should address the boting issue, that is one of (if not the most important) the issues that needs to end because it generates a lot of isk without any kind of risk. CCP dont know what to do with the game anymore, they buf 0.0 then nerf it, they buf a ship and nerf after some months, no testing, no thinking, just reacting to whines.
Hayley Magiliska	Posted - 2011.08.15 16:01:00 - [67] Originally by: RAW23 Moon goo clearly provides an excess of isk..... <snip> ... it can't be denied that these huge isk sources Moon goo does not generate isk. It is merely sold for isk generated elsewhere. There are very few isk faucets in the game at the moment, where isk is created out of thin air. Mission/Incursion rewards, rat bounties and NPC buy orders are examples of isk faucets.
Nooto Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2011.08.15 16:02:00 - [68] one of the best devblogs in recent days.
Trainwreck McGee	Posted - 2011.08.15 16:02:00 - [69] living in a WH this doesn't effect me but..... Doesn't it seem weird that CCP is forcing people to play barbie when they don't want to And they are also forcing people who JUST like to make a lot of money to pvp even if they don't want to? talk about alienating a lot of your player base CCP......not surprised though they have very little idea what they are doing.
Lady Go Diveher The Independent Troll Society	Posted - 2011.08.15 16:02:00 - [70] Originally by: Mirime Nolwe Low sec and 0.0 aren't big enough, if all highsec dwellers move to those regions the game will implode. Lowsec should be like it is at the moment population wise, can all of you guys that approve this kind of changes stop for a minute to think? Ever been to lowsec? I can count on one hand the number of systems that will have more than 10 in local on the average day. No. -------

RAW23	Posted - 2011.08.15 16:06:00 - [71] Originally by: Hayley Magiliska Originally by: RAW23 Moon goo clearly provides an excess of isk..... <snip> ... it can't be denied that these huge isk sources Moon goo does not generate isk. It is merely sold for isk generated elsewhere. There are very few isk faucets in the game at the moment, where isk is created out of thin air. Mission/Incursion rewards, rat bounties and NPC buy orders are examples of isk faucets. Thanks for the basic economics lesson. Now, if you could only point out where I said that moons inject isk into the game you might have a point. Moons are isk fountains precisely because the products are in demand.
Mirime Nolwe APOCALYPSE LEGION	Posted - 2011.08.15 16:09:00 - [72] Originally by: Lady Go Diveher Originally by: Mirime Nolwe Low sec and 0.0 aren't big enough, if all highsec dwellers move to those regions the game will implode. Lowsec should be like it is at the moment population wise, can all of you guys that approve this kind of changes stop for a minute to think? Ever been to lowsec? I can count on one hand the number of systems that will have more than 10 in local on the average day. No. Ever been to highsec? I can count on one hand the number of systems that will have less then 10 in local on the average day. See? work both ways, now move 50% of those highsec to lowsec and think for 30secs how can anyone will play in those few lowsec systems with 20 people in it. This game was a sandbox, not anymore.
Vaako Horizon	Posted - 2011.08.15 16:10:00 - [73] Originally by: Oosel Originally by: Vaako Horizon Originally by: Oosel so what if it all gets moved out to 0.0 for those who dont want a part of it they will just go and do lvl3's instead as long as it means you dont have to get involved in gank fests or 0.0 politics then fair play to them. you will not force people into 0.0 no matter how much you take away from high sec because for a very large portion of eves playerbase the pain that is 0.0 and low sec will never appeal. why do you think loads of 0.0 players have alts in high sec just because they want a break and heres the big bit and some fun without the hassle of 0.0 so what if you dont earn billions as long as you still enjoy the game then let the 0.0 guys have it all because i know some days when i have an hour only to play then high sec gives me my eve fix and 0.0 will never provide that If we high sec pve runners get thrown down to lvl 3 missions it goes towards pointless and then its time to leave the game. Its a game about flying spaceships ( among other things ) but we high sec'er arent even allowed to fly some of the ships :P I whould be happy to pay a little extra for a non pvp subscription which allowed my immunity from it and total banishment from pvp. ( including account punishment if I was ever found to be involved in pvp in any way/shape/form ) you can still fly those ships if you want it would just take you longer <- cant fly carrier as an example, regardless if I have the skills/isk or not since it whould force me out into areas where there is alot higher risk for pvp while I am more or less immune in high sec ( I never go below .5 ) Not that a carrier in high sec whould be good for much but its still a ship I am not allowed to fly ( again, in a game about ships :D )
Fademist	Posted - 2011.08.15 16:12:00 - [74] Originally by: Chrono Seeker Edited by: Chrono Seeker on 15/08/2011 13:43:44 Edited by: Chrono Seeker on 15/08/2011 13:33:49 Some activities that will no longer be available in High sec according to the dev blog: Quote: Best agents For further discussion. The best agents in the game should all be in nullsec, in keeping with the "richest area in the game" theme. There should be a clear margin of value for nullsec agents that acts as an enticement for mission runners to move there. No more lvl 4s in high sec it appears. Oops. Sorry mission runners. So it appears that CCP is taking the most lucrative areas of the game and putting them only in null sec. But they deserve it right? No one but huge alliances should be making any sort of good ISK in this game right? Personally I'm going to start buying ICE and resell it all later. and where exacly say l4 on low? low have l5 already and in the end if they do perhaps they will lose more ppl than they want or afford to lose
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.15 16:15:00 - [75] Originally by: Chrono Seeker Originally by: Jovan Geldon I fail to see anything bad about any of this, other than the excessively whiny and self-entitled tone of your post. Good thing I don't do any of those activities then. Yeah and thank God none of those activities effect you financially or you would be screwed... Oh wait they do effect you and you will be ****ed hard if it happens. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Skunk Gracklaw Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.08.15 16:17:00 - [76] If CCP actually has the balls to stick to the things in this devblog it will go a long way towards making up for the horrible decisions they have made in the last six months. These changes would be fantastic for the game.
Fademist	Posted - 2011.08.15 16:21:00 - [77] Originally by: Skunk Gracklaw If CCP actually has the balls to stick to the things in this devblog it will go a long way towards making up for the horrible decisions they have made in the last six months. These changes would be fantastic for the game. and u think this changes will lure ppl to 0.0? think again and then u will realize that many ppl dont want to be puppet for any alli or a corp to go where they dont want to go...
Hayley Magiliska	Posted - 2011.08.15 16:23:00 - [78] Stop looking at this change in isolation.. Other parts of the design documentation outline plans for smaller entities to 'hold' space in some fashion in nullsec, other than just the larger coalition and braver alliances. Thus, if the premise is true, it will allow everyone some form of reasonable access to nullsec isk making opportunities.
Oosel The Riot Formation KRYSIS.	Posted - 2011.08.15 16:23:00 - [79] <- cant fly carrier as an example, regardless if I have the skills/isk or not since it whould force me out into areas where there is alot higher risk for pvp while I am more or less immune in high sec ( I never go below .5 ) Not that a carrier in high sec whould be good for much but its still a ship I am not allowed to fly ( again, in a game about ships :D ) you havent been able to fly them in high sec from the beginning though so its not like you have missed them as they were like that from the very beginning. i can understand your point but to allow carriers cap ships like that in high sec would make it way too one sided even for pve. i havent used mine for months because of where its currently located purely because its pve fitted and it wont move until it becomes safe to do so. i understood that when i got it maybe its wasted doing nothing but it was a personal goal i set myself
Mia Restolo	Posted - 2011.08.15 16:35:00 - [80] Almost everything in that blog was just brainstorming. Some good ideas, some bad ideas and about 90% impossible to implement. Only 3% will be done in their 5 year time frame.

Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.15 16:36:00 - [81] Originally by: Skunk Gracklaw If CCP actually has the balls to stick to the things in this devblog it will go a long way towards making up for the horrible decisions they have made in the last six months. These changes would be fantastic for the game. Thus speaks the sheep who follows his leaders/masters and glories in being part of the mass where he only has to follow orders, not where he has to worry about a moments independent thought.
Aldan Romar Amarr	Posted - 2011.08.15 16:39:00 - [82] Originally by: Lady Go Diveher ... When 80+% of the game's characters are in highsec, the boring as **** risk-free space, there is CLEARLY a need to incentivize other areas of space. Well, I like being in highsec, as it suits my playing style and gives me what I want from the game (which is not ISK) - I guess I'm not the only one. Regardless, anything making nullsec more interesting should be good for the game, as more migration would surely alter the landscape more dynamically. I'd just like lowsec to get the same treatment...
RAW23	Posted - 2011.08.15 16:41:00 - [83] Originally by: Hayley Magiliska Stop looking at this change in isolation.. Other parts of the design documentation outline plans for smaller entities to 'hold' space in some fashion in nullsec, other than just the larger coalition and braver alliances. Thus, if the premise is true, it will allow everyone some form of reasonable access to nullsec isk making opportunities. Whilst the smallholdings sound like a great idea it is also made clear that they will exist at the sufferance of the larger power blocks and will not take much effort to destroy (although they will take time). I'm trying hard but I'm really struggling to see most of the proposed changes as anything other than representative of a failure to make nullsec good other than by making everything else bad. Collectively they don't just tweak or balance the game; they replace it with a new one. And the new one sounds as if it will cater to far, far fewer play styles than the present with only a token compensation for this loss (although current null residents should be happy as pigs in ****).
Bodega Cat	Posted - 2011.08.15 16:49:00 - [84] These are all great designs. I find it funny anyone critisizing its details because these are all very high level and very drafty. In fact, i would find it strange if anyone sensible disagreed with any of these things significantly as "ideas". Of course, coming up with designs is the easiest part of game development, now implementing all the features and content that actualizes all these principals without compromising as many other aspects as they're supposed to resolve is the hard part. Rest assured, every feature with great design intent that gets released, the ingenuity of the playerbase will warp and twist it to new and unimaginable breaking points. 5 year plan would be putting it lightly. But this is all great stuff.
Ladie Scarlet GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.08.15 16:49:00 - [85] Originally by: Windjammer Thus speaks the sheep who follows his leaders/masters and glories in being part of the mass where he only has to follow orders, not where he has to worry about a moments independent thought. Your post. It makes no sense. Also, if you can't see how fantastic these changes would be then you are really feeble-minded.
RAW23	Posted - 2011.08.15 16:52:00 - [86] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Originally by: Windjammer Thus speaks the sheep who follows his leaders/masters and glories in being part of the mass where he only has to follow orders, not where he has to worry about a moments independent thought. Your post. It makes no sense. Also, if you can't see how fantastic these changes would be for someone who lives in null and wants better agents, better mining and better industrial possibilities whilst not caring about any other segments of the game then you are really feeble-minded. Fixed.
Orlacc	Posted - 2011.08.15 16:53:00 - [87] Where does it say anything about moving level 4 missions?
Skunk Gracklaw Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.08.15 16:55:00 - [88] Edited by: Skunk Gracklaw on 15/08/2011 16:57:46 Originally by: Fademist and u think this changes will lure ppl to 0.0? think again and then u will realize that many ppl dont want to be puppet for any alli or a corp to go where they dont want to go... So don't be part of a corporation or alliance that treats you like a puppet. I would never be part of an alliance that had ridiculous things like mandatory CTAs or dictated how and when I play Eve. If you are in a situation like that then leave and find something better. It cracks me up to see people who've belonged to some crappy nullsec alliance who then ignorantly thing they are all the same.
Dorian Wylde	Posted - 2011.08.15 16:56:00 - [89] Originally by: Thorn Galen @ Op - if you do not see the relevance of that final paragraph, please stop posting half-facts which lead to confusion and disinformation. 'Nuff said. Trying to get people to stop being idiots on the internet? Yeah good luck with that.
Ladie Scarlet GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.08.15 16:57:00 - [90] Originally by: RAW23 Fixed. Well look at you not knowing what you're talking about.

Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.15 16:59:00 - [91] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Originally by: Windjammer Thus speaks the sheep who follows his leaders/masters and glories in being part of the mass where he only has to follow orders, not where he has to worry about a moments independent thought. Your post. It makes no sense. Also, if you can't see how fantastic these changes would be then you are really feeble-minded. It isnÆt surprising that my post doesnÆt make sense to you, considering the group youÆre associated with. Your response is a proof of my posts point. I honestly donÆt have the patience or inclination to explain it to you.
LittleTerror	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:03:00 - [92] Awesome.
Jenn aSide	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:03:00 - [93] Originally by: Iron Breaker If they do this CCP will likely lose half of their suscribers; the half who are not interested in PvP. All of the stuff that was discussed seemes to involve getting peole out into low & null sec. I, and a lot of other people are not interested in PvP, which seems to be something CCP cannot understand. Trying to force us to do something we do not want to do, and expecting us to pay $15 for it, seems like a poor business model. I will never understand folks like you mate. Why would you play a game that the developers state from the get go is a pvp game is you dont like pvp?
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:05:00 - [94] Originally by: Skunk Gracklaw Edited by: Skunk Gracklaw on 15/08/2011 16:57:46 Originally by: Fademist and u think this changes will lure ppl to 0.0? think again and then u will realize that many ppl dont want to be puppet for any alli or a corp to go where they dont want to go... So don't be part of a corporation or alliance that treats you like a puppet. I would never be part of an alliance that had ridiculous things like mandatory CTAs or dictated how and when I play Eve. If you are in a situation like that then leave and find something better. It cracks me up to see people who've belonged to some crappy nullsec alliance who then ignorantly thing they are all the same. This from the worst of the lot. Dude, that is some really fine irony delivered with a straight face.
RAW23	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:08:00 - [95] Originally by: Jenn aSide Originally by: Iron Breaker If they do this CCP will likely lose half of their suscribers; the half who are not interested in PvP. All of the stuff that was discussed seemes to involve getting peole out into low & null sec. I, and a lot of other people are not interested in PvP, which seems to be something CCP cannot understand. Trying to force us to do something we do not want to do, and expecting us to pay $15 for it, seems like a poor business model. I will never understand folks like you mate. Why would you play a game that the developers state from the get go is a pvp game is you dont like pvp? I thought it was a sandbox. The reason non-pvp people play is because there are lots of non-pvp things to do in this alleged pvp game.
Daenerys Fire Targaryen	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:10:00 - [96] This is not a good way to solve problems. First of all i must say that all of that does make sense actually and i too am against farmer and whatnot. BUT not everyone has time to farm missions, not everyone runs site after site with friends, not everyone use bots to mine ice. I personally have very few time to play, and i run 1 mission or 2 in a week to sustain my pvp activities, lowering the income in high sec will only damage people like me who don't have much time to play, people with a lot of time, a lot of toons and maybe with even bots will not be affected, that's for sure. So, congratulation for screwing casual players even more (soonÖ of course).
Harener	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:11:00 - [97] Edited by: Harener on 15/08/2011 17:11:49 Originally by: Mirime Nolwe Originally by: Lady Go Diveher Originally by: Mirime Nolwe Low sec and 0.0 aren't big enough, if all highsec dwellers move to those regions the game will implode. Lowsec should be like it is at the moment population wise, can all of you guys that approve this kind of changes stop for a minute to think? Ever been to lowsec? I can count on one hand the number of systems that will have more than 10 in local on the average day. No. Ever been to highsec? I can count on one hand the number of systems that will have less then 10 in local on the average day. See? work both ways, now move 50% of those highsec to lowsec and think for 30secs how can anyone will play in those few lowsec systems with 20 people in it. This game was a sandbox, not anymore. Uh, it still is a sandbox. The high-sec carebear tears are great. Originally by: Daenerys Fire Targaryen This is not a good way to solve problems. First of all i must say that all of that does make sense actually and i too am against farmer and whatnot. BUT not everyone has time to farm missions, not everyone runs site after site with friends, not everyone use bots to mine ice. I personally have very few time to play, and i run 1 mission or 2 in a week to sustain my pvp activities, lowering the income in high sec will only damage people like me who don't have much time to play, people with a lot of time, a lot of toons and maybe with even bots will not be affected, that's for sure. So, congratulation for screwing casual players even more (soonÖ of course). You mean like how they nerfed anomalies? Cry more.
Killer Gandry Caldari Shadow of the Pain	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:15:00 - [98] I wonder which l33t PvPer will go mine in null sec then. JGJHGLJ or maybe UIHKJH and his buddy VKJHGLB. Do not fear death so much but rather the inadequate life.
Digital Messiah Gallente Oregami Ultd	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:15:00 - [99] Originally by: Miss Rabblt risk vs reward I agree with this. But as it stands there are more alliances and corporations who will exploit this and players alike. 100% corp tax wars, no selling to jita "give us a discount", and my favorite "fleet up and lose everything or get out, oh and your going to be flying one of the first ships to get primed". This will definitely bring what you would consider as end game to more players. But it will also lead to a lot more new player scamming and rage quitting. Quote: "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn"
Dasatei	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:15:00 - [100] Yay 0.0 is gonna have MORE bots now -.-

Harener	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:16:00 - [101] Originally by: Dasatei Yay 0.0 is gonna have MORE bots now -.- LOL, most bots are in high-sec since it's 100% safe there, more excuses please.
Killer Gandry Caldari Shadow of the Pain	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:17:00 - [102] Originally by: Harener LOL, most bots are in high-sec since it's 100% safe there, more excuses please. Prove it. Do not fear death so much but rather the inadequate life.
Miranda Nebail	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:18:00 - [103] High sec dwellers will adapt anyway. My opinion is that 0.0 should be many times over more profitable than empire, as there is risk in 0.0, and no risk at all in empire. As it stands now, you maybe make a little more ISK in 0.0, than in empire. All the risks, little rewards. And moon goo should be be cyclical, meaning moons should give Tech one day, crap the next one. Totally random.
Harener	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:19:00 - [104] Originally by: Killer Gandry Originally by: Harener LOL, most bots are in high-sec since it's 100% safe there, more excuses please. Prove it. You prove most are in nullsec, how hypocritical.
Skunk Gracklaw Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:20:00 - [105] Originally by: Windjammer Originally by: Skunk Gracklaw Edited by: Skunk Gracklaw on 15/08/2011 16:57:46 Originally by: Fademist and u think this changes will lure ppl to 0.0? think again and then u will realize that many ppl dont want to be puppet for any alli or a corp to go where they dont want to go... So don't be part of a corporation or alliance that treats you like a puppet. I would never be part of an alliance that had ridiculous things like mandatory CTAs or dictated how and when I play Eve. If you are in a situation like that then leave and find something better. It cracks me up to see people who've belonged to some crappy nullsec alliance who then ignorantly thing they are all the same. This from the worst of the lot. Dude, that is some really fine irony delivered with a straight face. Are you saying that Goonswarm does have mandatory CTAs? Are you saying that The Mittani dictates how I play Eve? I think you're mad about goons (for whatever petty reason) and grasping at straws when you really don't know what you're talking about. A quick glance at your post history confirms this.
Jenn aSide	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:21:00 - [106] Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: Jenn aSide Originally by: Iron Breaker If they do this CCP will likely lose half of their suscribers; the half who are not interested in PvP. All of the stuff that was discussed seemes to involve getting peole out into low & null sec. I, and a lot of other people are not interested in PvP, which seems to be something CCP cannot understand. Trying to force us to do something we do not want to do, and expecting us to pay $15 for it, seems like a poor business model. I will never understand folks like you mate. Why would you play a game that the developers state from the get go is a pvp game is you dont like pvp? I thought it was a sandbox. The reason non-pvp people play is because there are lots of non-pvp things to do in this alleged pvp game. I understand all of that, but the people who make the game say "this is a pvp game" and all of the time ive been playing I've seen them trying more ways to get people into player corps, pvp and low/null sec. All these folks who play this pvp game but don't like pvp, well that would be like me playing hello kitti online then complaining abut how their isn't enough killing lol. Eve isn't the 1st game i've seen this kind of thing in. When I played a game called Mechwarrior there were lots of people who thought the very idea of giant robots with guns were stupid.....while playing a game about giant robots with guns........
FuzzyLogik360 Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:27:00 - [107] Originally by: Thornat Most of these thing re-enforce the basic concept on which CCP was founded. Its a game for the bold. Hiding in a hanger in high sec is where we all start, its not where the game ends. Unfortunatly for so many out there the fear of risking something... anything at all, is overwhelming and what they are doing here is trying to discourage that kind of thinking. Why is risk aversion so bad? In fact, CCP need people to stay out of nullsec. Consider this: all carebears move to nullsec as requested. All carebears die in seconds. Carebears buy more ships, carebears die again. Within a week carebears are broke. Carebears quit EVE. I enjoy this game, but as a CASUAL PLAYER and so I stay in empire. I don't earn enough money to hold my own in nullsec, and so by definition I can't benefit from the profits to be made in nullsec. It's catch-22 for me. To argue that EVE is meant ONLY for the hardcore is naive, particularly from a buisness point of view (i.e. subscriptions for CCP). No single player or group owns this game, it is for everyone. Therefore nerfing highsec is regressive, not progressive.
Killer Gandry Caldari Shadow of the Pain	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:28:00 - [108] Originally by: Harener Originally by: Killer Gandry Originally by: Harener LOL, most bots are in high-sec since it's 100% safe there, more excuses please. Prove it. You prove most are in nullsec, how hypocritical. I didn't come with a claim most are in null sec. So I dont have to prove anything. You state most are in high sec, so I just say, Prove it. But you are just one of those who want to sound important because they can throw stuff around without any prove and then poke their wannebe girlfriend how cool they are they can post stuff like that anonymous on the internet in a space MMO forum. Do not fear death so much but rather the inadequate life.
Guttripper Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:30:00 - [109] Actually, a better presentation would have been CCP offering how they see all four security regions instead of just concentrating on null sec. Then a good comparison and contrast would be debatable.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:32:00 - [110] Originally by: Orlacc Where does it say anything about moving level 4 missions? Nowhere. In fact, pretty much none of what the OP says is in the blog. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki

Jason1138	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:36:00 - [111] lol @ making a 5 year plan for mining when we're 2 years after the start of T3's and never got the 5th sub systems, much less T3 frigs or BS's, and in fact have been told the next T3 item will be in 2013 sometime this is either more like a 10 year plan or its something they're about to ram down your throat in the next 6 months
Takashi Kaeda	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:36:00 - [112] Finally. Time to leave Elwynn Forest, pubbies.
Gogela Freeport Exploration	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:41:00 - [113] Originally by: Miss Rabblt risk vs reward This x9000+ I'm in Empire. I make a fortune. I am bored as hell. I smell cowardice and weakness. It's the smell of Empire space. When the ISK moves to null, the players will follow... and I think the shxt is gonna hit the fan. I can't wait. It may take a while for this to happen though... so no rush... but I'm already shopping around for a good corp... If this smack in the nullsec blog actually goes down I mean... It could be like Incarna and take 8 years... His name was John Turbefield!
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:45:00 - [114] Edited by: Cipher Jones on 15/08/2011 17:46:43 Originally by: Gogela Originally by: Miss Rabblt risk vs reward This x9000+ I'm in Empire. I make a fortune. I am bored as hell. I smell cowardice and weakness. It's the smell of Empire space. When the ISK moves to null, the players will follow... and I think the shxt is gonna hit the fan. I can't wait. It may take a while for this to happen though... so no rush... but I'm already shopping around for a good corp... If this smack in the nullsec blog actually goes down I mean... It could be like Incarna and take 8 years... Because ice mining contributes to this. It is SO lucrative. Oh wait, ice mining contributes **** all to it. Its the dead hulks and Mackinaws CCP wants. They have point blank come out and said more than once. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Stormhammer Investments	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:49:00 - [115] I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the items listed but really, you guys should log in during a busy period and look at the map. Sort it by pilots/activitity and you will see the majority of them are actually in highsec. The facts speak for themselves. Most of Eve's active characters are in highsec. Why would CCP risk losing even more accounts? It doesn't make business sense.
Harener	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:52:00 - [116] Originally by: Stormhammer Investments Edited by: Stormhammer Investments on 15/08/2011 17:50:39 I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the items listed but really, you guys should log in during a busy period and look at the map. Sort it by pilots/activitity and you will see the majority of them are actually in highsec. The facts speak for themselves. Most of Eve's active characters are in highsec. Why would CCP risk losing even more accounts? It doesn't make business sense. What would have been better is if the empires were like islands and had no direct highsec links. Perhaps surrounded by lowsec and nullsec regions that people had to cross if they wanted the good stuff in other regions. They are in high sec...because it doesn't make sense to go to null isk-wise?
Stormhammer Investments	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:54:00 - [117] Originally by: Harener Originally by: Stormhammer Investments Edited by: Stormhammer Investments on 15/08/2011 17:50:39 I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the items listed but really, you guys should log in during a busy period and look at the map. Sort it by pilots/activitity and you will see the majority of them are actually in highsec. The facts speak for themselves. Most of Eve's active characters are in highsec. Why would CCP risk losing even more accounts? It doesn't make business sense. What would have been better is if the empires were like islands and had no direct highsec links. Perhaps surrounded by lowsec and nullsec regions that people had to cross if they wanted the good stuff in other regions. They are in high sec...because it doesn't make sense to go to null isk-wise? Well you can make a lot of ISK in null as well. Mining as an example is much more lucrative. You can make more ISK in other ways too. It's a high risk strategy and if they are going to do this in the near future I hope it doesn't drive away substantial numbers of people.
Sassums Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:57:00 - [118] This is a bunch of BS. Mining in Wormhole space is significantly more dangerous than Null Sec. Mining in wormhole space people can sneak up on you, D-Scan you down, probe you in less than 10 seconds, and be on top of you all before you can warp out or even before you know what's going on. In Null Sec I can see the attack from a mile away not to mention the miners are all protected behind numerous gate camps.
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.15 17:57:00 - [119] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Orlacc Where does it say anything about moving level 4 missions? Nowhere. In fact, pretty much none of what the OP says is in the blog. YouÆre right. In keeping with the official CCP policy of hinting at things without actually saying anything much. As you know, you have to interpret what they say and what they donÆt say and the direction in which they seem to be headed. Try adding the two following items together. The quote from the blog ôòBest agents ◦For further discussion. The best agents in the game should all be in nullsec, in keeping with the "richest area in the game" theme. There should be a clear margin of value for nullsec agents that acts as an enticement for mission runners to move there.ö And Constant whines to move L4Æs to null sec. Even low quality L4 mission agents give out profitable missions. DoesnÆt that sound like the best agents are going to be all the L4 agents and moved to null sec?
Wookie 1 Caldari Nex Exercitus Raiden.	Posted - 2011.08.15 18:02:00 - [120] I actually think this raises the interesting question of whether there will soon be too little ISK making a potential problem economically. After all much of the ISK is now concentrated in fewer hands than previous times.

Bezket	Posted - 2011.08.15 18:03:00 - [121] Originally by: Windjammer Even low quality L4 mission agents give out profitable missions. DoesnÆt that sound like the best agents are going to be all the L4 agents and moved to null sec? I sure hope so. If people want to remain in the safe warm embrace of highsec they should be limited to Level 3 missions. Risk vs. Reward betches.
Jenn aSide	Posted - 2011.08.15 18:03:00 - [122] Originally by: FuzzyLogik360 Why is risk aversion so bad? In real life, it's not, in a video game it makes for some really boring play sessions.... Quote: Consider this: all carebears move to nullsec as requested. All carebears die in seconds. Carebears buy more ships, carebears die again. Within a week carebears are broke. Carebears quit EVE. Im sorry, but that's useless hyperbole. No one (inlcuding CCP) is talking about "all carebears" doing anything. What is being talked about is a more rational balance in the game's sectors. I think we all know why things are the way they are, CCP HAD to make high sec the way it is because most people aren't hard core enough (even in a video game) to be able to accept the dangers of losing pixels... If it weren't for Hi-sec and it's subscription spewing players, eve wouldn't exist. We get that. But just because so many people are so scared of video game loss and death doesn't mean that those of us who DO like hard core aspects should suffer either. Quote: I enjoy this game, but as a CASUAL PLAYER and so I stay in empire. I don't earn enough money to hold my own in nullsec, and so by definition I can't benefit from the profits to be made in nullsec. It's catch-22 for me. Null sec as is isn't anywhere near as expensive as you make it out to be, that is if you know how to play the game and not lose expensive ships all the time. A single tech1 battleship for doing anomalies (even in non-upgraded systems, plenty of "natural" anoms all over the place) for 1 hour a week is enough to keep you in battlecrusiers and ceptors enough to enjoy null sec. Hell, one good drop from an anomalie escalation could pay a subscription for a month, or more. People dont go to null sec for a variety of reasons, cost isn't one of them. Quote: To argue that EVE is meant ONLY for the hardcore is naive, particularly from a buisness point of view (i.e. subscriptions for CCP). No single player or group owns this game, it is for everyone. Therefore nerfing highsec is regressive, not progressive. Hi-sec as is goes against what theh game is supposed to be about. i'm all for keeping hi-sec the same as long as null, low and WHs are boosted.
Emma Royd Caldari Maddled Gommerils	Posted - 2011.08.15 18:08:00 - [123] Ok, so in theory, they remove ice from high sec. The empire corps doing research stop cos they won't be able to mine the ice for the towers, price for ice stuff will go through the roof, increasing the cost of flying capitals, making 0.0 logistics much more expensive (how many actually fly the racial capital that they can mine ice for in the 0.0 they live in, or only use the towers for that region ?) As for risk/reward, ice mining is hardly a reward, it's done as a means to an end, in 0.0 you've got a whole wealth (lol) of anomolies to do which should pay more than ice mining, much higher bounties on belt rats, so what's the issue, it's not like there's the rich ices like Dark Glitter in empire. It is just a theory, and it's going to take a long time before they do anything on it, and it's not like ccp have a history of listening to their playerbase anyway, so they'll do what they want to do, and we'll live with the consequences, or quit. +_+ Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity
Grey Stormshadow Starwreck Industries	Posted - 2011.08.15 18:10:00 - [124] I read the entire dev blog and find it to be good plan as a whole. OP prolly had his reasons to pull out few lines to cause drama with assumptions... Gotta read it couple times again with more time and see if there was something to comment about. At least initially didn't see any major flaws in the "plan". --- This is one of the moments where we look at what CCP does and less of what they say. Innovation takes time to set in and the predictable reaction is always to resist change
Signal11th	Posted - 2011.08.15 18:16:00 - [125] Originally by: Cambarus Originally by: Signal11th Edited by: Signal11th on 15/08/2011 14:36:52 Edited by: Signal11th on 15/08/2011 14:35:42 Originally by: Thornat Originally by: Signal11th I know everyone keeps saying risk vs reward but to be honest to anyone who has lived in 0.0 like myself will tell you 0.0 is actually a very safe place to be. Correction. Corps and Alliance make it a safe place for their corp members and alliance members. Its something players create for themselves. Come in my wormhole and I will show you how nulls sec is not safe for you. I'm already in a Wormhole at the moment?? Your point being? You think because your in a Wormhole everyone else isn't? I know how "slightly" more dangerous a wormhole is. Wormholes are more dangerous and alot more profitable hence the reason I'm making more in WH's than I did in 0.0 In my previous post I'm just tired of people saying your taking a huge risk going to 0.0 when in fact sometimes its safer than high-sec. TBH I'm sick of seeing people claim that 0.0 is safe, or, even more absurd, that it is safer than highsec. There is a lot you can do in nullsec (and even wh space) to MINIMIZE the risk, but these are all things that cost a lot of isk, or a lot of time/people (and therefore, isk). It may be fairly easy not to lose ships often in nullsec if you're very experienced in doing so, but even if that is the case, you still take a much larger risk by being out there than you would in highsec. The fact that the isk you can make while in concord protected space rivals the isk you can make in nullsec is absurd. I don't claim mate I know, Spent the last two years in 0.0 and it's an extremely safe place to be if your not an idiot. Yes alot of work goes into it being made safe but jesus the amount of isk made in 0.0 far outstrips any risk there.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.15 18:20:00 - [126] Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: Jenn aSide I will never understand folks like you mate. Why would you play a game that the developers state from the get go is a pvp game is you dont like pvp? I thought it was a sandbox. The reason non-pvp people play is because there are lots of non-pvp things to do in this alleged pvp game. And that's the reason it's a PvP game: because it's a sandbox. Since it lets you do anything you want with the tools available, one of the things that can be done, and which suffuses everything in the game, is that you can go after other players and take their stuff (or just blow it up). Originally by: Windjammer Try adding the two following items together. The quote from the blog ôòBest agents ◦For further discussion. The best agents in the game should all be in nullsec, in keeping with the "richest area in the game" theme. There should be a clear margin of value for nullsec agents that acts as an enticement for mission runners to move there.ö And Constant whines to move L4Æs to null sec. àof which the latter has nothing to do with CCP, and the former has very little to do with L4s. So putting them together serves no purpose. If we're going to interpret things, then L5s will be moved to nullsec, and/or they'll tweak the effective-quality algorithm so sec level becomes an even larger factor. It could also be that they simply tweak the mission lists so the more profitable ones don't appear with highsec agents (but that's of a lesser concern ù the real money is in the agent rewards, not in the rats, so the seemingly high-profit missions are quite often not that good for generating vast amounts of cash). Quote: DoesnÆt that sound like the best agents are going to be all the L4 agents and moved to null sec? Not really, no. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
RAW23	Posted - 2011.08.15 18:35:00 - [127] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: Jenn aSide I will never understand folks like you mate. Why would you play a game that the developers state from the get go is a pvp game is you dont like pvp? I thought it was a sandbox. The reason non-pvp people play is because there are lots of non-pvp things to do in this alleged pvp game. And that's the reason it's a PvP game: because it's a sandbox. Since it lets you do anything you want with the tools available, one of the things that can be done, and which suffuses everything in the game, is that you can go after other players and take their stuff (or just blow it up). I think we're largely arguing over semantics here rather than actually disagreeing but by this argument one can claim that it is a PvE game (since the tools are available and PvE suffuses everything in the game), a market game (same), and an industry game (ditto). However, the claim I was addressing was that this is a PvP game rather than any of these other types, with Jenn finding it hard to understand why non-PvPers would play a (primarily) PvP game.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.15 18:45:00 - [128] Originally by: Windjammer Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Orlacc Where does it say anything about moving level 4 missions? Nowhere. In fact, pretty much none of what the OP says is in the blog. YouÆre right. In keeping with the official CCP policy of hinting at things without actually saying anything much. As you know, you have to interpret what they say and what they donÆt say and the direction in which they seem to be headed. Try adding the two following items together. The quote from the blog ôòBest agents ◦For further discussion. The best agents in the game should all be in nullsec, in keeping with the "richest area in the game" theme. There should be a clear margin of value for nullsec agents that acts as an enticement for mission runners to move there.ö And Constant whines to move L4Æs to null sec. Even low quality L4 mission agents give out profitable missions. DoesnÆt that sound like the best agents are going to be all the L4 agents and moved to null sec? No it sounds like level 5's should be in nullsec. For the record one of your items was from the blog and one wasn't. The one that wasn't shouldn't be considered in the equation. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Warzon3 Perkone	Posted - 2011.08.15 18:48:00 - [129] I approve of product and/or service If CCP got the balls to really do this I might be interested in actually playing again. ---- Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Downtime is now extended to 19:00 for patch file verification. This is a very important step that must be done to make sure clients are being corrupted.
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.15 19:02:00 - [130] Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: Windjammer Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Orlacc Where does it say anything about moving level 4 missions? Nowhere. In fact, pretty much none of what the OP says is in the blog. YouÆre right. In keeping with the official CCP policy of hinting at things without actually saying anything much. As you know, you have to interpret what they say and what they donÆt say and the direction in which they seem to be headed. Try adding the two following items together. The quote from the blog ôòBest agents ◦For further discussion. The best agents in the game should all be in nullsec, in keeping with the "richest area in the game" theme. There should be a clear margin of value for nullsec agents that acts as an enticement for mission runners to move there.ö And Constant whines to move L4Æs to null sec. Even low quality L4 mission agents give out profitable missions. DoesnÆt that sound like the best agents are going to be all the L4 agents and moved to null sec? No it sounds like level 5's should be in nullsec. For the record one of your items was from the blog and one wasn't. The one that wasn't shouldn't be considered in the equation. You ever hear of a problem with L5Æs being too prevalent in hi sec? Ever hear someone advocating they should be moved to nullsec exclusively? Wonder why? If all L5Æs were exclusive to nullsec, I doubt youÆd see much complaint. Nor do I believe that youÆd see anything much in the way of complaint if L5Æs had better rewards to compensate for the fact that it requires a number of people in cooperation with each other to complete them. For the record, I only indicated one of the two items was from the blog. ThatÆs why I said ôThe quote from the blogö (singular form) and only put quotation marks around the quote from the blog.

James Razor Amarr Fallen Angel's White Noise.	Posted - 2011.08.15 19:04:00 - [131] Yes, this is it CCP, well done. Fuc*k' up (and to hell with that Mod that comments about avoiding the profanity filter, go and do something useful like fixing bugs) the Game for half of the population instead of fixing the broken stuff (POSes, Role Management, Lag, and so on). I started my Career as Mission Runner an i am still proud of my good Standings with Amarr Empire which i had to grind the hard way before you made reaching the high quality agents easy for everyone. I moved to 0.0 years ago because it is more fun and actually easier and LESS risky to make ISK there (no suicide gankers, no ninja salvagers, no can flippers, etc) and if someone actually comes in and trys to disturb u, u grab your PvP Ship, call in your corpmates and send the guy home the fast way per pod express. So 0.0 IS allready very attractive. The fact that most ppl dont realise this wont change if CCP trys to FORCE them to play the game in a way they dont like. Also, most of Eves current economy is build up on the resources availabe in EMPIRE. If u take those away, the economy will collapse the one or the other way. And this will lead to more expensive Ships, Mods, Ammo, etc so i will have to spend even MORE damn time to carebear instead of flying shiny ships and make stuff explode with them.
Smoking McPot	Posted - 2011.08.15 19:05:00 - [132] 95% of the devblog would have been applicable even if it was posted in 2004 so much text, so little information
Not-Apsalar	Posted - 2011.08.15 19:09:00 - [133] Originally by: Sarmatiko Edited by: Sarmatiko on 15/08/2011 14:28:01 Originally by: Miss Rabblt risk vs reward Wait you mean bot Raven hunter/anomaly cleaner that lives in rented 0.0 system and warps out to POS in seconds after you show up in local, risking with something? Park cyno 5 cloaky alt in system Park Black Ops BS at POS within jump range Wait for Raven to go back to ratting(they all do eventually because everyone needs isk) Cloaky alt gets point, lights cyno, dead ratter
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.15 19:10:00 - [134] Quote: So 0.0 IS allready very attractive. Thank god that's not subjective. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.15 19:11:00 - [135] Originally by: Windjammer You ever hear of a problem with L5Æs being too prevalent in hi sec? Back when you could get them in highsec, yes. But more importantly, so what? The blog is not about highsec, so what if they were, and so what if some people want L4s moved out as well? So still no, there is nothing that really indicates that they're going to move L4s. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Takamori Maruyama Amarr Red Federation RvB - RED Federation	Posted - 2011.08.15 19:15:00 - [136] more mercenary activity on 0.0 , since all the indies will be moving there. Lovely.
Khira Kitamatsu	Posted - 2011.08.15 19:16:00 - [137] So tell me again how this will motivate people that are in high-sec, and enjoy playing in high-sec, to move to low and null-sec?
Craven Aleros	Posted - 2011.08.15 19:16:00 - [138] If you want Risk vs Reward then sure keep highend roids, plexes (or whatever they are called now), the BS belt rats and place ice, lvl 4 missions etc. there to. Then remove sov., moon mining and all that stuff and make all nullsec NPC controlled. That'll make nullsec a little more accessible to all _____________ I got beef...
Monstress	Posted - 2011.08.15 19:19:00 - [139] Originally by: Not-Apsalar Edited by: Not-Apsalar on 15/08/2011 19:09:41 Originally by: Sarmatiko Edited by: Sarmatiko on 15/08/2011 14:28:01 Originally by: Miss Rabblt risk vs reward Wait you mean bot Raven hunter/anomaly cleaner that lives in rented 0.0 system and warps out to POS in seconds after you show up in local, risking with something? Park cyno 5 cloaky alt in system Park Black Ops BS at POS within jump range Wait for Raven to go back to ratting(they all do eventually because everyone needs isk) Cloaky alt gets point, lights cyno, dead ratter You can make a lifestyle of it. The loot that drops from dedicated ratting ships is great, not to mention you have a chance to ninja the loot from whatever they were killing, and many times you'll have good salvage because Raven is on the low end of ships you'll be killing. Except the 0.0 bots are programmed to NEVER rat in local with neutrals. So you could sit there all day in your cloaked covops cyno alt and do nothing. I've lived in DRF space hunting macro ratters for weeks straight and they all show the same behavior. The only way to catch these guys is hope they're pointed by belt rats or anom rats by the time you jump into local. If you manage to catch one with an AFK cloaky BO gang, it likely wasn't a bot, just a dumb human.
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate	Posted - 2011.08.15 19:24:00 - [140] Originally by: Signal11th Originally by: Cambarus I don't claim mate I know, Spent the last two years in 0.0 and it's an extremely safe place to be if your not an idiot. Yes alot of work goes into it being made safe but jesus the amount of isk made in 0.0 far outstrips any risk there. You're either absurdly good at making isk and not losing ships in nullsec, or insanely bad at doing those same things in highsec. Incursions especially have tipped the isk per hour ratio towards highsec, since 100+mil/hour is not difficult to achieve if you're in a decent fleet, and the risk is almost non-existent if you fly with people you know. There really aren't any risks in highsec that aren't also present in nullsec, but nullsec presents risks not seen in highsec. It's provable nonsense to claim that highsec is more dangerous.

Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.15 19:30:00 - [141] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Windjammer Try adding the two following items together. The quote from the blog ôòBest agents ◦For further discussion. The best agents in the game should all be in nullsec, in keeping with the "richest area in the game" theme. There should be a clear margin of value for nullsec agents that acts as an enticement for mission runners to move there.ö And Constant whines to move L4Æs to null sec. àof which the latter has nothing to do with CCP, and the former has very little to do with L4s. So putting them together serves no purpose. If we're going to interpret things, then L5s will be moved to nullsec, and/or they'll tweak the effective-quality algorithm so sec level becomes an even larger factor. It could also be that they simply tweak the mission lists so the more profitable ones don't appear with highsec agents (but that's of a lesser concern ù the real money is in the agent rewards, not in the rats, so the seemingly high-profit missions are quite often not that good for generating vast amounts of cash). Quote: DoesnÆt that sound like the best agents are going to be all the L4 agents and moved to null sec? Not really, no. Most of L5Æs are already outside of hi sec. Moving them exclusively to null sec would very nearly be a none story. On the other hand there have been persistent calls from the null sec crowd to move L4Æs exclusively to null sec. This same crowd alleges that L4Æs are actually more profitable than L5Æs due to the typical L5 needing to be done by a group rather than solo and therefore benefiting the individual participant less than if he/she were to do a solo L4. The ôbest agents should all be in nullsecö portion of the blog quote can therefore reasonably be inferred to mean L4 agents. This remains the most likely of the various possible scenarios, though of course it is not actually stated as such in the blog. Also this does not mean that the other possibilities you mention arenÆt possible, itÆs just saying that moving the L4Æs remains the most likely or at the very least a real possibility. If youÆre saying the dev blog didnÆt actually state anything, you are, of course, correct. It was the typical vague, hinting, not really making a statement, can be taken a number of different ways, not actually that informative, CCP dev blog. All we can do with such things is make educated guesses on what theyÆre saying and give feedback on that basis. Feedback is what was requested and thatÆs whatÆs being given. -Windjammer
Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.15 19:32:00 - [142] I find it funny how some people here claim 0.0 has little risks... Yet they don't deny high sec has no risk at all! CCP, do this: Put all lvl 4's in low sec, all low-end ore (except Veld and Scord) in low sec, all low-end ice in low sec, all high-end ice in 0.0, There. 1) Low sec traffic will be fixed. There will be an actual reason to be in low sec. 2) High sec pubbies will be happy in their safe little heavens. 3) 0.0 dwellers will be happy 0.0 is much more profitable in comparison. And kill supercarriers/titans, CCP. They don't work anymore.
baltec1	Posted - 2011.08.15 19:43:00 - [143] I like everything about this plan.
ZW Dewitt	Posted - 2011.08.15 19:49:00 - [144] Originally by: Rikeka I find it funny how some people here claim 0.0 has little risks... Yet they don't deny high sec has no risk at all! CCP, do this: Put all lvl 4's in low sec, all low-end ore (except Veld and Scord) in low sec, all ~~low-end~~ ice in low sec, all high-end ice in 0.0, There. 1) Low sec traffic will be fixed. There will be an actual reason to be in low sec. 2) High sec pubbies will be happy in their safe little heavens. 3) 0.0 dwellers will be happy 0.0 is much more profitable in comparison. And kill supercarriers/titans, CCP. They don't work anymore. How about we actually give people a reason to go to be in low-sec, rather than having it be a riskier version of 0.0 with lower rewards?
Neurotica	Posted - 2011.08.15 19:53:00 - [145] Edited by: Neurotica on 15/08/2011 19:57:12 All for CCP doing this and a pat on the back is they willing to take the $$$ hit to make the game a better experience. L5's should be 0.0 and L4's low sec. But to allow for high traffic, there should be a tier sentury gate system for sec status. Force the lowest form of pvp off gates.
Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.15 19:56:00 - [146] Originally by: ZW Dewitt Originally by: Rikeka I find it funny how some people here claim 0.0 has little risks... Yet they don't deny high sec has no risk at all! CCP, do this: Put all lvl 4's in low sec, all low-end ore (except Veld and Scord) in low sec, all ~~low-end~~ ice in low sec, all high-end ice in 0.0, There. 1) Low sec traffic will be fixed. There will be an actual reason to be in low sec. 2) High sec pubbies will be happy in their safe little heavens. 3) 0.0 dwellers will be happy 0.0 is much more profitable in comparison. And kill supercarriers/titans, CCP. They don't work anymore. How about we actually give people a reason to go to be in low-sec, rather than having it be a riskier version of 0.0 with lower rewards? I would not mind your modification to my idea. All ice to low sec is not bad, but bettter have it spread around a little (maybe all low ice to 0.0, high ice to low sec, or an average of the two?)
malcovas Henderson	Posted - 2011.08.15 19:58:00 - [147] I have come from WoW, where they give Raid Lvl gear, to those that have, and will, never Raid. This is just about the same thing. Im a total carebear while Im still new to the game, And I agree to these changes
Newt Rondanse	Posted - 2011.08.15 20:00:00 - [148] Originally by: Rikeka I find it funny how some people here claim 0.0 has little risks... Yet they don't deny high sec has no risk at all! High sec has risk. The risk is lower than most nullsec and much lower than lowsec, but the risk is definitely there. It's amazing how many people I have heard about "belt ratting" in T1 fit Thoraxes and Ruptures, for instance.
Barbelo Valentinian Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.08.15 20:04:00 - [149] Not sure about these changes. On the one hand, I'd say a substantial number of PvE-ers merely tolerate and have grown accustomed to the fact that PvP is omnipresent in EVE, simply because in most other respects - apart from this minor annoyance of open-world PvP - EVE is the best implemented s-f spaceship game available. For many people, EVE is a game to relax at the end of the day. They don't want to have to think too much about it. They've come to terms with the PvP and the loss, but they've come to terms with it on a level that's now acceptable. If they're "forced" further into PvP, a fair number will just leave and play another game or wait until another spaceship game comes along (and if EVE keeps going at this rate, you can bet the sharks will smell the blood). On the other hand, some will certainly develop a taste for greater risk and more PvP action. But is this really the way CCP wants to go to get this huge increase in subscribers they seem to be trawling for? ***** "To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding
Ana Vyr Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.15 20:04:00 - [150] If what the OP says is true, I'm done. This is what I do currently: I run a research POS in high sec, and manufacture T2 goods for sale. I also run level 4 missions on the side. I've spent time in nullsec in an alliance, and it wasn't the type of gameplay I was looking for. My lifestyle requires that I play solo for the most part. If the OP is correct, the proposed changes are a game-killer for me.

Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.15 20:05:00 - [151] Oh, pls tell me. What are the risks in dangerous and scary high sec? There are no risks, and all losses are avoidable, unless you are really stupid that is. Also true in 0.0, only some losses in 0.0 are out of your controll (lik lockout assets, some fleet losses, etc)
Bustin Jieber	Posted - 2011.08.15 20:05:00 - [152] It should be Level 1 and Level 2 missions in highsec, Level 3 missions in lowsec and Level 4 and Level 5 missions in nullsec.
Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.15 20:07:00 - [153] Originally by: Ana Vyr If what the OP says is true, I'm done. This is what I do currently: I run a research POS in high sec, and manufacture T2 goods for sale. I also run level 4 missions on the side. I've spent time in nullsec in an alliance, and it wasn't the type of gameplay I was looking for. My lifestyle requires that I play solo for the most part. If the OP is correct, the proposed changes are a game-killer for me. You would still be able to do lvl 3's in high sec, or move to low sec and do missions there. As for the research, fuel would be moved to Jita no matter what, you can buy it there. Only the ice botters can truly complain of ice being moved out, seriously.
Generals4 Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.15 20:08:00 - [154] Originally by: Bustin Jieber It should be Level 1 and Level 2 missions in highsec, Level 3 missions in lowsec and Level 4 and Level 5 missions in nullsec. No it should be like: Lvl 1-3 High sec Lvl 4 Null Lvl 5 Low We all know Low sec is more dangerous than 0.0 Heck remove ABC from null and move it to low. No more hiding deep in sov space.
xavier69 Gallente Stark Enterprises LLC	Posted - 2011.08.15 20:11:00 - [155] Edited by: xavier69 on 15/08/2011 20:18:38 Quote: 1.No more lvl 4s in high sec it appears. Oops. Sorry mission runners. I have though the years been **ed off at CCP for the stupid they do on a regular basis and taken 2-3 month breaks at a time. This however will be the straw that broke the camels back. I will mission for 20-30m isk per mission in a ship worth 500 million, in low sec, CCP your out of your ing minds. If you ever do something this dumb I will personally fly to Iceland to throw your Asses in that volcano Quote: 1. No more Ice in high sec. Again Who the wants to sit and mine ice for 8-12 hours at a time while in low sec ? news flash NOBODY, the only reason ice gets mined now its done mostly semi afk. Please think LEYRO JANKINS! You already ed up the economy of this game hard with the change to robotics and PI robotics went from a seeded item costing 8k per to a 60k per item over night due to your idiocy If you want to force low sec ice mining it needs to be A LOT ING FASTER, AKA what takes 12 hours now should take 2-4 hours. Quote: 3. Seeing the 3 dolla marker board the devs are using has fail hard written all over it, if thatÆs how you create flow charts for our game we are ED and its no wonder our game has sucked so bad for the past 2 years 7 years playing this game and yes I am pretty **ed at the idiots who for the past 2 years have done nothing but FAIL XOXOXOXO
Ana Vyr Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.15 20:12:00 - [156] Originally by: Rikeka Originally by: Ana Vyr If what the OP says is true, I'm done. This is what I do currently: I run a research POS in high sec, and manufacture T2 goods for sale. I also run level 4 missions on the side. I've spent time in nullsec in an alliance, and it wasn't the type of gameplay I was looking for. My lifestyle requires that I play solo for the most part. If the OP is correct, the proposed changes are a game-killer for me. You would still be able to do lvl 3's in high sec, or move to low sec and do missions there. As for the research, fuel would be moved to Jita no matter what, you can buy it there. Only the ice botters can truly complain of ice being moved out, seriously. What about T2 manufacturing though? I can give up ice mining (I do all my own ice mining, and it's boring as hell), I wouldn't even bother with level 3 missions, as I prefer flying battleships. Most of my ISK comes from T2 manufacturing.
Urgg Boolean	Posted - 2011.08.15 20:16:00 - [157] Thorrablot :: kinda like an EvE version of the American Thanksgiving for Icelanders. It defines their willingness to do whatever it takes to survive, including eating ram's "jeuvos" and taking risks that may well result in disaster. It is also a testament to the dogged nature of Icelanders. Didn't read all the posts, but: I see this (if it plays out as outlined by the OP) along with the NeX store as excessive risk taking that alienates many of their paying customers. As usual, we have to wait and see how the Devs accomplish their goals in terms of game play. Dev strategies like this make me glad my subscription timer is about to time out. Not because of risk versus reward issues like most people get hot about, but because this is yet another failure to design a really cool and creative system to entice people to take risks. Again, if as outlined by the OP, it's a blunt hammer approach and fails to utilize an opportunity to inject creativity into the game.
Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.15 20:17:00 - [158] Well, I see no change there. Basically, if you live in empire, you now still depend on the materials that come from 0.0, right? What would change then?
Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.15 20:21:00 - [159] Anyway, as only a short number of people vote in the CSM (most are from 0.0), the system works! After all, the representatives work for those they represent, and that's good.
RAW23	Posted - 2011.08.15 20:24:00 - [160] Originally by: Urgg Boolean Thorrablot :: kinda like an EvE version of the American Thanksgiving for Icelanders. It defines their willingness to do whatever it takes to survive, including eating ram's "jeuvos" and taking risks that may well result in disaster. It is also a testament to the dogged nature of Icelanders. Didn't read all the posts, but: I see this (if it plays out as outlined by the OP) along with the NeX store as excessive risk taking that alienates many of their paying customers. As usual, we have to wait and see how the Devs accomplish their goals in terms of game play. Dev strategies like this make me glad my subscription timer is about to time out. Not because of risk versus reward issues like most people get hot about, but because this is yet another failure to design a really cool and creative system to entice people to take risks. Again, if as outlined by the OP, it's a blunt hammer approach and fails to utilize an opportunity to inject creativity into the game. From reading some of Grayscale's comments in the features forum discussion threads, it looks like these are just ideas that need to be balanced. So, even if the ideal is questionable they don't seem t have got far beyond brainstorming and have probably released the material in this early stage purely to gather feedback. However, given my own immediate reaction to the outlines this has all the making of another PR clusterfuc[k].

Omara Otawan	Posted - 2011.08.15 20:24:00 - [161] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 15/08/2011 20:26:33 Originally by: Urgg Boolean Didn't read all the posts, but: I see this (if it plays out as outlined by the OP) along with the NeX store as excessive risk taking that alienates many of their paying customers. As usual, we have to wait and see how the Devs accomplish their goals in terms of game play. Honestly, it isnt so much about alienating customers but breaking the game economy. If we are realistic for a second, and take into account how long a mackinaw has to mine in order to get enough ice for providing the fuel for a single cross-region carrier jump... I dont think I have to finish that sentence. I dont see anyone striking a profit mining ice when the ice belts are camped 23/7 by stealth bombers. In fact, I dont see capital fleets moving after a while. Now that might be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your stance towards capitals, but it would be the killing blow to the game economy. It might be a fun change nonetheless, I'll definitely dust of the manticore and bomb launcher and wreck havoc on the friendly neighborhood powerblock
baltec1	Posted - 2011.08.15 20:24:00 - [162] Originally by: Ana Vyr If what the OP says is true, I'm done. This is what I do currently: I run a research POS in high sec, and manufacture T2 goods for sale. I also run level 4 missions on the side. I've spent time in nullsec in an alliance, and it wasn't the type of gameplay I was looking for. My lifestyle requires that I play solo for the most part. If the OP is correct, the proposed changes are a game-killer for me. How exactly is it a game killer? You will still be able to do your POS and maufacture T2 goods.
RAW23	Posted - 2011.08.15 20:26:00 - [163] Originally by: Rikeka Anyway, as only a short number of people vote in the CSM (most are from 0.0), the system works! After all, the representatives work for those they represent, and that's good. Except there are no constituency seats on the CSM and they are explicitly representatives of the player body as a whole. If they choose not to fulfil the function of the CSM, that is a different matter, but it is not their job to just represent those who voted for them. Indeed, given the secret ballot structure of the elections they do not know who those people are (although in many cases they can make a good guess).
Hoya en Marland	Posted - 2011.08.15 20:34:00 - [164] If this is their new idea how to attract more people into 0.0 meatgrinder then they are terribly wrong.
Ana Vyr Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.15 20:39:00 - [165] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Ana Vyr If what the OP says is true, I'm done. This is what I do currently: I run a research POS in high sec, and manufacture T2 goods for sale. I also run level 4 missions on the side. I've spent time in nullsec in an alliance, and it wasn't the type of gameplay I was looking for. My lifestyle requires that I play solo for the most part. If the OP is correct, the proposed changes are a game-killer for me. How exactly is it a game killer? You will still be able to do your POS and maufacture T2 goods. I must have misread the OP. It seemed to imply no more T2 manufacturing in highsec.
Dasola Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.15 20:44:00 - [166] Originally by: Miss Rabblt risk vs reward Then 0.0 is clearly wrong place to put all strawberries. 0.0 is as safe if not safer then highsec. Maybe they should dump all ice, zydrine and megasite in lowsec. maybe then some people would actyally choose to live there. * Revolution changes worlds * CCP, players are watching, no empty promises.
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.08.15 20:47:00 - [167] Originally by: Dasola Originally by: Miss Rabblt risk vs reward Then 0.0 is clearly wrong place to put all strawberries. 0.0 is as safe if not safer then highsec. Maybe they should dump all ice, zydrine and megasite in lowsec. maybe then some people would actyally choose to live there. No, people will just bot more so they can afford the inflated prices of the very few that will bother with it. - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
baltec1	Posted - 2011.08.15 20:48:00 - [168] Remove local in 0.0 and the risk goes way up
Wa'roun Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.08.15 20:54:00 - [169] Perhaps there needs to be an additional level of missions, for a total of levels 1-6, where level 5's become 6 (level 5s being null sec), level 4s become 5, etc, so that highest high sec is level 3, and every level's rewards and difficutly are adjusted accordingly.
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.08.15 21:02:00 - [170] I wonder if we could bribe CCP to put up big signs at every gate leading out of highsec saying "Here be dragons".

Signal11th	Posted - 2011.08.15 21:06:00 - [171] Originally by: Cambarus Originally by: Signal11th Originally by: Cambarus I don't claim mate I know, Spent the last two years in 0.0 and it's an extremely safe place to be if your not an idiot. Yes alot of work goes into it being made safe but jesus the amount of isk made in 0.0 far outstrips any risk there. You're either absurdly good at making isk and not losing ships in nullsec, or insanely bad at doing those same things in highsec. Incursions especially have tipped the isk per hour ratio towards highsec, since 100+mil/hour is not difficult to achieve if you're in a decent fleet, and the risk is almost non-existent if you fly with people you know. There really aren't any risks in highsec that aren't also present in nullsec, but nullsec presents risks not seen in highsec. It's provable nonsense to claim that highsec is more dangerous. So you get wardecced in high sec what's the difference then from 0.0? I never said high-sec was safer all the time I said sometimes, and 0.0 isn't the bad scary world your trying to make it out to be. They have enough isk making capability in 0.0 they don't need anymore buffing.
Fulc Dainton	Posted - 2011.08.15 21:07:00 - [172] I like running level 4 missions in high. It's how I choose to spend my time in EVE. Take it away and I'm not suddenly going to change my mind about null/low, I'm much more likely to go back to one of the other MMOs I play which provides an enjoyable experience that suits me. Players gravitate towards a play style that suits them and if playing in low or null simply doesn't appeal to them they are not going to suddenly change; if they don't like null or low now, they won't jump the fence to get their ball back if it's been kicked over the wall into the crocodile pen. You can discuss the merits of risk vs reward and all the other pros and cons of changing the system ad nauseum, but players will only continue to play if they are enjoying the activities on offer. Remove what they enjoy and you alienate your paying public.
Not-Apsalar	Posted - 2011.08.15 21:10:00 - [173] Originally by: Monstress Except the 0.0 bots are programmed to NEVER rat in local with neutrals. So you could sit there all day in your cloaked covops cyno alt and do nothing. I've lived in DRF space hunting macro ratters for weeks straight and they all show the same behavior. The only way to catch these guys is hope they're pointed by belt rats or anom rats by the time you jump into local. If you manage to catch one with an AFK cloaky BO gang, it likely wasn't a bot, just a dumb human. Edit: I lied, another way to catch these pesky botters is by doing a logoffski at a belt or anomaly and hope to log in with them in it. I don't like this approach though. Logoffski works, or, like I said, camp the system 24/7. If you prevent their bots from going out you win anyways(moral victory, at least), and eventually they want to make isk, so they venture out and ignore you. That is when you strike.
Aldarica Spinal Discipline	Posted - 2011.08.15 21:10:00 - [174] Risk vs. reward? Heh. Nullsec is in most cases safer than Empire. If they want to make ice and most valuable ore/NPC drops more difficult to obtain they should move them to lowsec, not 0.0.
Barbie D0ll	Posted - 2011.08.15 21:13:00 - [175] Originally by: baltec1 Remove local in 0.0 and the risk goes way up oh god this so much [rant] risk in nullsec? if you are not in a nullsec alliance and pay them their 1 bil isk a day existence fee they will do a supercapital driveby cyno-jammer in your system? say hello to 1000 man tempest fleets that insta-incap pos mods like your cyno-jammer then drop supercapitals on you you run annoms? not anymore thanks to AFK-cloakies on grid with your cleared anoms preventing them from respawning you like to have a secure corporation? say hello to armies of spy alts you want to visit nullsec? say hello to roaming fleets of whatever that will camp you in your own system risk free and bubble all the exits leaving the only way out the pod express you want to fight back? say hello to client drop exploits, teamspeak server hacking and takeover, website hacking and takeover, and attemps to hack into your computer and steal your account info to use your character to backstab your alliance/corp mates you still want to fight back? once they take over your teamspeak server they can trace you back to where you live and cut your power so you can't log on to fight back you want to go back to highsec? they can hire merc alliances to make your life hell and with CSM belonging to the nullsec overlords they will just nerf highsec or buff nullsec until their bots/slaves make more money than you in complete safety oh wait they already do that you want to mine in highsec? nullsec have bots that do that you want to farm drone minerals? Drone regions are pumping out more drone minerals [/rant] the list goes on and on
Tyberius Franklin	Posted - 2011.08.15 21:13:00 - [176] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Ana Vyr If what the OP says is true, I'm done. This is what I do currently: I run a research POS in high sec, and manufacture T2 goods for sale. I also run level 4 missions on the side. I've spent time in nullsec in an alliance, and it wasn't the type of gameplay I was looking for. My lifestyle requires that I play solo for the most part. If the OP is correct, the proposed changes are a game-killer for me. How exactly is it a game killer? You will still be able to do your POS and maufacture T2 goods. From the blog: Geared towards T2 * Our current proposal is that hisec is for volume T1 goods, lowsec will be for meta/faction gear eventually, nullsec is for T2, and wormholes are for T3 This would suggest that, even if not removed altogether, T2 manufacture in highsec would be inferior to nullsec, possibly reducing profitability for highsec T2 producers to the point where it may no longer be worthwhile. Op seems to be assuming it will be taken away completely though.
baltec1	Posted - 2011.08.15 21:17:00 - [177] Originally by: Tyberius Franklin Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Ana Vyr If what the OP says is true, I'm done. This is what I do currently: I run a research POS in high sec, and manufacture T2 goods for sale. I also run level 4 missions on the side. I've spent time in nullsec in an alliance, and it wasn't the type of gameplay I was looking for. My lifestyle requires that I play solo for the most part. If the OP is correct, the proposed changes are a game-killer for me. How exactly is it a game killer? You will still be able to do your POS and maufacture T2 goods. From the blog: Geared towards T2 * Our current proposal is that hisec is for volume T1 goods, lowsec will be for meta/faction gear eventually, nullsec is for T2, and wormholes are for T3 This would suggest that, even if not removed altogether, T2 manufacture in highsec would be inferior to nullsec, possibly reducing profitability for highsec T2 producers to the point where it may no longer be worthwhile. Op seems to be assuming it will be taken away completely though. I see it as where you get the bits to make the t2 things.
Kevric Talocan Scrap Metal and Recycling Talocan United	Posted - 2011.08.15 21:20:00 - [178] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Originally by: Windjammer Thus speaks the sheep who follows his leaders/masters and glories in being part of the mass where he only has to follow orders, not where he has to worry about a moments independent thought. Your post. It makes no sense. Also, if you can't see how fantastic these changes would be then you are really feeble-minded. Hmmm, Goons are on record as wanting to break the game. Pardon me if I take your view of these changes being "fantastic" for the game with a grain of salt.
Tyberius Franklin	Posted - 2011.08.15 21:24:00 - [179] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Tyberius Franklin Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Ana Vyr If what the OP says is true, I'm done. This is what I do currently: I run a research POS in high sec, and manufacture T2 goods for sale. I also run level 4 missions on the side. I've spent time in nullsec in an alliance, and it wasn't the type of gameplay I was looking for. My lifestyle requires that I play solo for the most part. If the OP is correct, the proposed changes are a game-killer for me. How exactly is it a game killer? You will still be able to do your POS and maufacture T2 goods. From the blog: Geared towards T2 * Our current proposal is that hisec is for volume T1 goods, lowsec will be for meta/faction gear eventually, nullsec is for T2, and wormholes are for T3 This would suggest that, even if not removed altogether, T2 manufacture in highsec would be inferior to nullsec, possibly reducing profitability for highsec T2 producers to the point where it may no longer be worthwhile. Op seems to be assuming it will be taken away completely though. I see it as where you get the bits to make the t2 things. Could be interpreted that way, but considering moon mineral distro, i'm not sure how it would differ from the current situation. Could just be reiterating the importance of moons in null. But really, the statement is too vague for me at least to draw any certain changes they have in mind from it.
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.08.15 21:26:00 - [180] I only see this happening honestly. - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring

Neurotica	Posted - 2011.08.15 21:26:00 - [181] I can see barbie dolls point, but I'm sure CCP would adapt null to compensate. Having a rant don't turn a good idea into a bad one. I would suggest an alliance could have gate senturies in 1 constellation at a extremely rip off price :D
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.15 21:28:00 - [182] Originally by: xavier69 I have though the years been **ed off at CCP for the stupid they do on a regular basis and taken 2-3 month breaks at a time. This however will be the straw that broke the camels back. ôWill beö? Again, you do realise that none of the sort is mentioned in the blog right? Quote: I will mission for 20-30m isk per mission in a ship worth 500 million, in low sec, CCP your out of your ing minds. Good news: you don't need a 500M ship to run missions in lowsec. Quote: Again Who the wants to sit and mine ice for 8-12 hours at a time while in low sec ? news flash NOBODY More good news: the point here isn't to do it in lowsec (and if you read the actual blog, rather than the OP's misinterpretation, you'll notice that there's no mention of removing it from higshec either). Quote:** If you want to force low sec ice mining They're not. If anything, they're going to force nullsec mining (but, as mentioned, not even that is what they say they're thinking of). ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
baltec1	Posted - 2011.08.15 21:32:00 - [183] Originally by: Tyberius Franklin Could be interpreted that way, but considering moon mineral distro, i'm not sure how it would differ from the current situation. Could just be reiterating the importance of moons in null. But really, the statement is too vague for me at least to draw any certain changes they have in mind from it. If they can somehow make it so they require salvage you can only get in 0.0 and is equally distributed to make the bits you need to make t2 items it could work. But yea, need more info before we leap to our panic stations.
Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.15 21:33:00 - [184] Originally by: Dasola Originally by: Miss Rabblt risk vs reward Then 0.0 is clearly wrong place to put all strawberries. 0.0 is as safe if not safer then highsec. Maybe they should dump all ice, zydrine and megasite in lowsec. maybe then some people would actyally choose to live there. Yes, I totally see the dangers of living in high sec. Those CONCORD NPC's sure are scary, they probably kill thousands of empire dwellers every single day! GTFO Originally by: Fulc Dainton I like running level 4 missions in high. It's how I choose to spend my time in EVE. Take it away and I'm not suddenly going to change my mind about null/low, I'm much more likely to go back to one of the other MMOs I play which provides an enjoyable experience that suits me. Players gravitate towards a play style that suits them and if playing in low or null simply doesn't appeal to them they are not going to suddenly change; if they don't like null or low now, they won't jump the fence to get their ball back if it's been kicked over the wall into the crocodile pen. You can discuss the merits of risk vs reward and all the other pros and cons of changing the system ad nauseum, but players will only continue to play if they are enjoying the activities on offer. Remove what they enjoy and you alienate your paying public. Do lvl 3's. Problem solved. Everyone wins. Empire dwellers will earn less, yes, but with the same zero risk they've always had. And 0.0 dwellers will actually believe they have an advantage playing in 0.0 (as in, at least more ISK than the ones staying in empire, considering the risks). Originally by: Aldarica Risk vs. reward? Heh. Nullsec is in most cases safer than Empire. If they want to make ice and most valuable ore/NPC drops more difficult to obtain they should move them to lowsec, not 0.0. HAHAHAHAHA! Please, elaborate, and make us all laugh.
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate	Posted - 2011.08.15 21:34:00 - [185] Originally by: Signal11th Originally by: Cambarus Originally by: Signal11th Originally by: Cambarus I don't claim mate I know, Spent the last two years in 0.0 and it's an extremely safe place to be if your not an idiot. Yes alot of work goes into it being made safe but jesus the amount of isk made in 0.0 far outstrips any risk there. You're either absurdly good at making isk and not losing ships in nullsec, or insanely bad at doing those same things in highsec. Incursions especially have tipped the isk per hour ratio towards highsec, since 100+mil/hour is not difficult to achieve if you're in a decent fleet, and the risk is almost non-existent if you fly with people you know. There really aren't any risks in highsec that aren't also present in nullsec, but nullsec presents risks not seen in highsec. It's provable nonsense to claim that highsec is more dangerous. So you get wardecced in high sec what's the difference then from 0.0? I never said high-sec was safer all the time I said sometimes, and 0.0 isn't the bad scary world your trying to make it out to be. They have enough isk making capability in 0.0 they don't need anymore buffing. 100mil an hour in alliance controlled space on your own is easy enough to earn. The difference is you can instantly hop corps, or just stay in the npc corps. Wars are as hilariously easy to hide from as they are to declare. Not only that, but in a wardec you get advance notice when the guys who want to shoot you actually can, and it's only a small number of them, whereas in 0.0 it's fairly safe to assume anyone in your space not specifically marked as an ally is looking to shoot you.
Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.15 21:37:00 - [186] Kinda curious on how empire dwellers counter-propose to make empire more profitable than 0.0, thus make 0.0 dwellers move to empire to make ISK. How this helps EVE, I have no idea.
Dusty Warrior	Posted - 2011.08.15 21:37:00 - [187] Tickles the ****e out out of me that you null sec carebears think it's sooooo cooooool to say risk-v-reward while sitting in your little comfy corner of space with all your cannon fodder gate camping and blobbing. Not sure who told you that 100 to 1 is PVP but guess it's someone with the mentality of Mittens. It's far safer in 0.0 than ever in hi-sec. The only reason why we're seeing your null-carebear tears now is that people have finally gotten tired of you shoving them around as if they're your slave or something. Hollering on coms and calling people idiots all the while you have your mains sitting in trade hubs selling everything mined from your systems by your little minnions and bots. Get over yourselves and live what you say. You guys wouldn't know what PVP was if it hit you in the rear you dumb flunkies.
Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.15 21:51:00 - [188] Edited by: Rikeka on 15/08/2011 21:52:29 Originally by: Dusty Warrior Tickles the **e out out of me that you null sec carebears think it's sooooo cooooool to say risk-v-reward while sitting in your little comfy corner of space with all your cannon fodder gate camping and blobbing. Not sure who told you that 100 to 1 is PVP but guess it's someone with the mentality of Mittens. It's far safer in 0.0 than ever in hi-sec. The only reason why we're seeing your null-carebear tears now is that people have finally gotten tired of you shoving them around as if they're your slave or something. Hollering on coms and calling people idiots all the while you have your mains sitting in trade hubs selling everything mined from your systems by your little minnions and bots. Get over yourselves and live what you say. You guys wouldn't know what PVP was if it hit you in the rear you dumb flunkies. Stopped reading there. You have no idea. And bots? Sure, there are bots in 0.0... no more than in a single ice belt in a high sec system in empire**... but truly, there are both in 0.0, I agree. And please, elaborate your pvp prowess in WoW PVP Servers all you want, you must be awesome there, cause risks are just too great there.
Tyberius Franklin	Posted - 2011.08.15 21:51:00 - [189] Edited by: Tyberius Franklin on 15/08/2011 21:55:04 Originally by: Rikeka Do lvl 3's. Problem solved. Everyone wins. Empire dwellers will earn less, yes, but with the same zero risk they've always had. And 0.0 dwellers will actually believe they have an advantage playing in 0.0 (as in, at least more ISK than the ones staying in empire, considering the risks). The only reason I ever did lvl 3's was to get to 4's. I never looked at it as an income source, and outside of a massive drop in item prices, I doubt that would change. For others it may very well be the same. In the end it just results in people being more risk averse as you now spend a lot longer making the same. If you think the game would be better without them, if this changer were ever to make it in game you may get your way. Originally by: Rikeka Originally by: Aldarica Risk vs. reward? Heh. Nullsec is in most cases safer than Empire. If they want to make ice and most valuable ore/NPC drops more difficult to obtain they should move them to lowsec, not 0.0. HAHAHAHAHA! Please, elaborate, and make us all laugh. A good nullsec intel channel lets you know when a hostile is coming from several jumps away. And even if it doesn't, local lets you know you have an uninvited guest instantly. Compared to highsec, where anyone could be that ganker looking for your officer/deadspace mods to drop, and they make sure that concord won't get there in time, and yes, some would see nullsec as safer. This assumes of course, that you have given someone a reason that is worth shooting you for.
baltec1	Posted - 2011.08.15 21:55:00 - [190] Originally by: Tyberius Franklin A good nullsec intel channel lets you know when a hostile is coming from several jumps away. And even if it doesn't, local lets you know you have an uninvited guest instantly. Compared to highsec, where anyone could be that ganker looking for your officer/deadspace mods to drop, and they make sure that concord won't get there in time, and yes, some would see nullsec as safer. I owned a nihtmare for 3 years and it was never attacked in high sec. My 2 month old mael in 0.0 has been attacked or forced to dock at least twice every day it went out.

Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.15 21:56:00 - [191] What? You think intel channels are perfect? And only stupid people get ganked in high sec. "Look at me, how cool I am as I autopilot my plex Tengu around Jita... Oh, wait, what's that arty-Apocalypse doing targeting me... Bleh, NVM, cause I'm a Tengu!" Natural Selection.
Cpt Fina Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2011.08.15 21:56:00 - [192] People tend to look at established 0,0-corps/alliances and see very little risk. The same people are also forgetting that 0,0 space wasn't given to these corps/alliances for free. If one compare the effort of acquiring a precense and rights in a high-sec system to a 0,0 system then higher rewards are justified. Safety in 0,0 isn't aqcuired by game-design, like in high-sec, but by struggle and politics or a hefty fee.
Dusty Warrior	Posted - 2011.08.15 22:01:00 - [193] Edited by: Dusty Warrior on 15/08/2011 22:03:59 Edited by: Dusty Warrior on 15/08/2011 22:01:42 Originally by: Rikeka Edited by: Rikeka on 15/08/2011 21:52:29 Originally by: Dusty Warrior Tickles the **e out out of me that you null sec carebears think it's sooooo cooooool to say risk-v-reward while sitting in your little comfy corner of space with all your cannon fodder gate camping and blobbing. Not sure who told you that 100 to 1 is PVP but guess it's someone with the mentality of Mittens. It's far safer in 0.0 than ever in hi-sec. The only reason why we're seeing your null-carebear tears now is that people have finally gotten tired of you shoving them around as if they're your slave or something. Hollering on coms and calling people idiots all the while you have your mains sitting in trade hubs selling everything mined from your systems by your little minnions and bots. Get over yourselves and live what you say. You guys wouldn't know what PVP was if it hit you in the rear you dumb flunkies. Stopped reading there. You have no idea. And bots? Sure, there are bots in 0.0... no more than in a single ice belt in a high sec system in empire**... but truly, there are both in 0.0, I agree. And please, elaborate your pvp prowess in WoW PVP Servers all you want, you must be awesome there, cause risks are just too great there. I have every idea as I lived in null for a little over 4 years. Yeah I have a VERY good idea what takes place in 0.0. Even the open discussions of admitting to botting on coms. Vent/TS3/mummble Yeah I know what happens in 0.0 and is why I will never return until CCP addresses the problem. The problem isn't hi-sec, the problem is the people in 0.0. P.S. Don't really care where you stopped reading tbh as it is you who doesn't have a clue as evident of your previous rants. P.S.S Never played another mmo up to the recent events and then only playing W.O.T.
Tyberius Franklin	Posted - 2011.08.15 22:06:00 - [194] Edited by: Tyberius Franklin on 15/08/2011 22:06:27 Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Tyberius Franklin A good nullsec intel channel lets you know when a hostile is coming from several jumps away. And even if it doesn't, local lets you know you have an uninvited guest instantly. Compared to highsec, where anyone could be that ganker looking for your officer/deadspace mods to drop, and they make sure that concord won't get there in time, and yes, some would see nullsec as safer. I owned a nihtmare for 3 years and it was never attacked in high sec. My 2 month old mael in 0.0 has been attacked or forced to dock at least twice every day it went out. My Mael died due to not paying attention to intel channels. And while none of my highsec ships have been attacked while missioning, attacking a ship that docked due to reds in local/intel would still prove a bit more difficult. but again, it's just about not making yourself a target in high. Playing devils advocate BTW. I'm not one to argue nullsec is really "safer." Poor mael :(
Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.15 22:06:00 - [195] Edited by: Rikeka on 15/08/2011 22:07:42 To Dusty: Oh, pls, tell me with what char you had all that experience, instead of a random alt. Till then, you are just one more empire pubbie trying to pretend you've been on both sides of the fence, and still think empire is perfect as it is...
Daenerys Fire Targaryen	Posted - 2011.08.15 22:08:00 - [196] Originally by: Harener You mean like how they nerfed anomalies? Cry more. You little dumb boy, why are you so dumb? Where did i cry exactly? I was just expressing my point of view, if having different opinions means someone is crying then maybe the one with eyes full of tears is you actually. Get out of your house and learn to have a constructive conversation with people that have different opinions, and try to stop those tears.
Tyberius Franklin	Posted - 2011.08.15 22:09:00 - [197] Edited by: Tyberius Franklin on 15/08/2011 22:09:05 Wasn't at me. NVM
Richstall10 The Confed Crew	Posted - 2011.08.15 22:09:00 - [198] Originally by: Rikeka Finally! No more EVE easy-mode. Want the rewards, take risks. +1 People Of Random Nature<-- recruitment thread
Dusty Warrior	Posted - 2011.08.15 22:11:00 - [199] Yeah... you'd love to get my mains and alts names wouldn't you? That way you can get your flunkies to make my life just as miserable as yours. Nice spin though. I notice anytime you 0.0 flunkies get a little resistance you try to dismiss a post by... give me your main's name or you're nothing.
Ai Mei Starfish Operating Syndicate	Posted - 2011.08.15 22:15:00 - [200] I would like to point out the disclaimer at the bottom of the dev blog that says and i quote Also, to repeat a thing from earlier in big letters, THIS WILL ALL TAKE A LONG-ASS TIME TO HAPPEN. Some of it will be changed or dropped before it ever gets implemented. Some of it will never happen. This is a roadmap, not a production schedule. So op. you are an idiot, but 8/10 for trolling the entire community.

baltec1	Posted - 2011.08.15 22:16:00 - [201] Originally by: Dusty Warrior Yeah... you'd love to get my mains and alts names wouldn't you? That way you can get your flunkies to make my life just as miserable as yours. Nice spin though. I notice anytime you 0.0 flunkies get a little resistance you try to dismiss a post by... give me your main's name or you're nothing. Well it is hard to belive people when they hide behind an alt.
Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.15 22:17:00 - [202] Originally by: Dusty Warrior Yeah... you'd love to get my mains and alts names wouldn't you? That way you can get your flunkies to make my life just as miserable as yours. Nice spin though. I notice anytime you 0.0 flunkies get a little resistance you try to dismiss a post by... give me your main's name or you're nothing. Cool. Then we are clear that you have no experience on 0.0
Harener	Posted - 2011.08.15 22:18:00 - [203] Edited by: Harener on 15/08/2011 22:18:14 Originally by: Cpt Fina People tend to look at established 0,0-corps/alliances and see very little risk. The same people are also forgetting that 0,0 space wasn't given to these corps/alliances for free. If one compare the effort of acquiring a precense and rights in a high-sec system to a 0,0 system then higher rewards are justified. Safety in 0,0 isn't aqcuired by game-design, like in high-sec, but by struggle and politics or a hefty fee. If you can't pass a gate camp with a nullified T3, or some stealth bomber/recon, I'm sorry but you are terrible.
Dusty Warrior	Posted - 2011.08.15 22:19:00 - [204] Originally by: Cpt Fina People tend to look at established 0,0-corps/alliances and see very little risk. The same people are also forgetting that 0,0 space wasn't given to these corps/alliances for free. If one compare the effort of acquiring a precense and rights in a high-sec system to a 0,0 system then higher rewards are justified. Safety in 0,0 isn't aqcuired by game-design, like in high-sec, but by struggle and politics or a hefty fee. It's very little riski when you have mining ops in the already ricj enviornment mining to stay in your so precious 0.0 corners. Mining quotas, CTA requirements etc etc etc.. like I said. The only people who stand to lose anything in your 0.0 alliance is the ones who joined your slave corps. You all holler ship replacements but when it comes down to actually doing it... you come up with a lame excuse like... you lost it on a Friday, sorry we don't replace ships lost on Fridays. One I like best is ... we don't replace your ship unless it's fitted like XYZ. But it was! No, you had a named module, sorry. Idea: Quit treating your corp members and alliance comrads like **** and you might have people migrate to 0.0. Doubt that will happen as you have too many monocles to buy.
Cpt Fina Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2011.08.15 22:22:00 - [205] Edited by: Cpt Fina on 15/08/2011 22:24:21 Originally by: Harener Edited by: Harener on 15/08/2011 22:18:14 Originally by: Cpt Fina People tend to look at established 0,0-corps/alliances and see very little risk. The same people are also forgetting that 0,0 space wasn't given to these corps/alliances for free. If one compare the effort of acquiring a precense and rights in a high-sec system to a 0,0 system then higher rewards are justified. Safety in 0,0 isn't aqcuired by game-design, like in high-sec, but by struggle and politics or a hefty fee. If you can't pass a gate camp with a nullified T3, or some stealth bomber/recon, I'm sorry but you are terrible. Confirming that 0,0 is designed with the random t3-pilot in mind and not the alliances and corporations that try to hold space there. Now if you read my post again u might get what I was reffering to. Originally by: Dusty Warrior It's very little riski when you have mining ops in the already ricj enviornment mining to stay in your so precious 0.0 corners. Mining quotas, CTA requirements etc etc etc.. like I said. The only people who stand to lose anything in your 0.0 alliance is the ones who joined your slave corps. You are also missing my point. One shuoldn't look at the 0,0 environment in a time-vacuum but consider what it takes to acquire said space to begin with and rent it out.
Harener	Posted - 2011.08.15 22:34:00 - [206] Originally by: Cpt Fina Now if you read my post again u might get what I was reffering to. Whoops, meant to quote: Originally by: Dusty Warrior Edited by: Dusty Warrior on 15/08/2011 21:56:48 Tickles the **** of me when you null sec carebears say "Risk-V-Reward" while sitting in your little comfy corner of space with all your cannon fodders gate camping and blobbing. Not sure who told you that 100 to 1 is PVP but guess it's someone with the mentality of Mittens. It's far safer in 0.0 than hi-sec will eve be.
Dusty Warrior	Posted - 2011.08.15 22:36:00 - [207] Captain, Believe me buddy... I understand all of that but yet again the ones who helped set that up see very little return in the scheme of things. I've been there and done about everything in null there was to do. I've seen how much alliance heads rake in isk wise, yet it still doesn't seem enough for them. They want to reach out and destroy hi-sec which has worked fine for 8 years thus far. The reason why people are losing interest in null sec isn't because of the revenue in hi-sec but the treatment they recieve in 0.0 by supposed comrads. They're treated as slaves. If you're an industrialists you are expected to mine your quota and respond to CTAs all the while trying to make a little isk on the side. If you're a PVP'r you're expected to support yourself while protecting someone's sov with little or no compensation while yet again the corp/alliance heads sit in hi-sec raking in the isk by the billions weekly. Jealous? I make my isk with my own back. Not on the back of others. It's a matter of principle for me even if it's a game.
Mutnin Amarr Mutineers	Posted - 2011.08.15 22:49:00 - [208] Originally by: Miss Rabblt risk vs reward Not that I really care where stuff comes from, but where is the risk in null? The biggest Risk in null, is that some other NAP train might over run your own NAP train. (ie Russian Drones vs NC as the latest example) Other than that, null sec care bears typically just lose ships while care bearing because they are dumb and don't pay attention. There is very little Risk when these null sec care bear alliances can bubble up the entrances of their favorite system with 20 bubbles on each gate, then go about their ratting & anom farming 23.5/7 with nothing to fear. If it's a risk vs reward factor then low sec is by far the riskiest area to do care in and means the expensive faction drops should come from either low sec or NPC null sec.
Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.15 22:52:00 - [209] Edited by: Rikeka on 15/08/2011 22:52:06 To Dusty: What? Ok, dude. You have no idea of 0.0, don't try to sell us that. Now, to clarify again, I don't care of your real char, real main, whatever. Don't say it, I don't want it. But it's so clear you have no idea what 0.0 is, you are just guessing your ass off. Stay in empire all you want, for all we care. It will keep being as safe as it is now (meaning, extremely safe, but not invulnerable), you'll just earn less. And if you need ISK, you can hop on your 0.0 PVP experienced chars, you claimed you had (again, don't tell the names, we'll totally trust you (in fact, even if you had given us a name, I would not have believed it, LOL) and just make ISK in 0.0, with all the risks involved (of course).
Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.15 22:56:00 - [210] Originally by: Mutnin Originally by: Miss Rabblt risk vs reward Not that I really care where stuff comes from, but where is the risk in null? The biggest Risk in null, is that some other NAP train might over run your own NAP train. (ie Russian Drones vs NC as the latest example) Other than that, null sec care bears typically just lose ships while care bearing because they are dumb and don't pay attention. There is very little Risk when these null sec care bear alliances can bubble up the entrances of their favorite system with 20 bubbles on each gate, then go about their ratting & anom farming 23.5/7 with nothing to fear. If it's a risk vs reward factor then low sec is by far the riskiest area to do care in and means the expensive faction drops should come from either low sec or NPC null sec. Low sec is easy. No bubbles. Now, if you are flying something big, without a scout, you are just stupid. But that happens in 0.0 too (only there are bubbles there too).

Cpt Fina Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2011.08.15 22:57:00 - [211] Originally by: Dusty Warrior Edited by: Dusty Warrior on 15/08/2011 22:46:39 Captain, Believe me buddy... I understand all of that, but yet again the ones who helped set that up see very little return in the scheme of things. I've been there and done about everything in null there was to do. I was in a position to see how much alliance heads rake in isk wise. Yet, it still doesn't seem enough for them. They want to reach out and destroy hi-sec which has worked fine for 8 years, thus far. The reason why people are losing interest in null sec isn't because of the revenue in hi-sec, but the treatment they recieve in 0.0 by supposed comrads. They're treated as slaves. If you're an industrialists you are expected to mine your quota and respond to CTAs all the while trying to make a little isk on the side. When you are trying to meet your quota the PVPrs are off looking for pew pew leaving industrialists to bid for themselves. If you're a PVP'r you're expected to support yourself while protecting someone's sov with little or no compensation while yet again the corp/alliance heads sit in hi-sec raking in the isk by the billions weekly. Jealous? I make my isk with my own back, not on the back of others. It's a matter of principle for me even if it's a game. If you're unhappy with the way your alliance are run it isn't the fault of the space you're in but the inherent structure of your organisation. There are corrupt leaders in high-sec also. Ok, so there is badly run alliances. I don't see how this relates to the subject.
Saliss Aya	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:05:00 - [212] So, from all that is being said here, I take it that nullsec (unlike high sec) is a place where the devs would like people to go, but the players aren't going in large enough numbers, or the devs would be happy and this wouldn't be an issue... So, why don't they (the devs) put together a survey, and find out what the majority of their players want and then try to provide this. Problem solved in my opinion. To me this seems like basic business sense. Know your market and today with online marketing, etc, they could survey each player as they logged on.
Mutnin Amarr Mutineers	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:08:00 - [213] Edited by: Mutnin on 15/08/2011 23:10:48 Originally by: Rikeka Low sec is easy. No bubbles. Now, if you are flying something big, without a scout, you are just stupid. But that happens in 0.0 too (only there are bubbles there too). T3 ships can warp through bubbles and most care bearing in null is done by sov holders in their own safe havens, so bubbles on random gates aren't much of an issue with a decent jump bridge network. Hence the reason I said the faction/officers mods should come from low sec & NPC null sec, if it were a risk vs reward issue. PVP doesn't just happen on gates and by far low sec & NPC null are the riskiest places to try and care bear in because there isn't much option to secure your own systems with 20 bubles on the gates and have easy access via jump bridge.
Generals4 Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:10:00 - [214] Originally by: Rikeka Originally by: Mutnin Originally by: Miss Rabblt risk vs reward Not that I really care where stuff comes from, but where is the risk in null? The biggest Risk in null, is that some other NAP train might over run your own NAP train. (ie Russian Drones vs NC as the latest example) Other than that, null sec care bears typically just lose ships while care bearing because they are dumb and don't pay attention. There is very little Risk when these null sec care bear alliances can bubble up the entrances of their favorite system with 20 bubbles on each gate, then go about their ratting & anom farming 23.5/7 with nothing to fear. If it's a risk vs reward factor then low sec is by far the riskiest area to do care in and means the expensive faction drops should come from either low sec or NPC null sec. Low sec is easy. No bubbles. Now, if you are flying something big, without a scout, you are just stupid. But that happens in 0.0 too (only there are bubbles there too). No mate low sec is much more dangerous for isk farming than null. Sure 0.0 has a higher start up cost but once you got your sov and alliance circle you're pretty much rdy and able to easily farm billions rather safely. That ain't happening in low sec. I'm in FW and our home system gets camped at least once a day by either pies or the enemy militia. Can't recall having so many people in our systems wanting to kill us when i was in null. If i had to rank risk i'd say it's low > WH > Null >> High. If CCP truly wants to fix risk vs reward they should leave WH's and null like they are but beef up low. There is a reason why low sec has almost no one flying in it. It just doesn't pay up.
Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:10:00 - [215] If empire dwellers really want no change to empire... FINE. Boost only 0.0... make it ratting or mining there 4 or 5 times more profitable than in empire. Problem solved. No nerf to empire, and 0.0 dwellers are happy (of course, prices would then reflect 0.0 commodities and rewards, since empire is ****, 0.0 determines EVE economy, not the mindless drones in high sec).
Generals4 Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:13:00 - [216] Edited by: Generals4 on 15/08/2011 23:14:32 Originally by: Rikeka If empire dwellers really want no change to empire... FINE. Boost only 0.0... make it ratting or mining there 4 or 5 times more profitable than in empire. Problem solved. No nerf to empire, and 0.0 dwellers are happy (of course, prices would then reflect 0.0 commodities and rewards, since empire is ****, 0.0 determines EVE economy, not the mindless drones in high sec). No mate 0.0 is fine risk vs reward wise. You're just angry some folks earn less than you instead of much less. And aren't mining and ratting already like 2-3x as profitable as in high? Why would you want it even higher? Sounds like you are bitter and greedy
Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:13:00 - [217] Originally by: Generals4 Originally by: Rikeka Originally by: Mutnin Originally by: Miss Rabblt risk vs reward Not that I really care where stuff comes from, but where is the risk in null? The biggest Risk in null, is that some other NAP train might over run your own NAP train. (ie Russian Drones vs NC as the latest example) Other than that, null sec care bears typically just lose ships while care bearing because they are dumb and don't pay attention. There is very little Risk when these null sec care bear alliances can bubble up the entrances of their favorite system with 20 bubbles on each gate, then go about their ratting & anom farming 23.5/7 with nothing to fear. If it's a risk vs reward factor then low sec is by far the riskiest area to do care in and means the expensive faction drops should come from either low sec or NPC null sec. Low sec is easy. No bubbles. Now, if you are flying something big, without a scout, you are just stupid. But that happens in 0.0 too (only there are bubbles there too). No mate low sec is much more dangerous for isk farming than null. Sure 0.0 has a higher start up cost but once you got your sov and alliance circle you're pretty much rdy and able to easily farm billions rather safely. That ain't happening in low sec. I'm in FW and our home system gets camped at least once a day by either pies or the enemy militia. Can't recall having so many people in our systems wanting to kill us when i was in null. If i had to rank risk i'd say it's low > WH > Null >> High. If CCP truly wants to fix risk vs reward they should leave WH's and null like they are but beef up low. There is a reason why low sec has almost no one flying in it. It just doesn't pay up. I'll take your word, as I don't have much experience on low sec... and none in FW.
Dusty Warrior	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:19:00 - [218] It relates to the subject at hand as we're discussing the POSSIBLE changes being suggested by 0.0 alliances which atm controls the CSM. Again... the problem isn't with hi-sec mechanics. The problem lies within the sov holding 0.0 alliances. Plural as I've been a part of more than one. The three I was a part of; had the same problems. I know they're more but after seeing how three of which two are still major players, were the last time I cared to look. I thought why try for the 4th? I presently reside in lo-sec and hi-sec and perfectly comfortable. Personally atm I'm sitting on enough isk to do as I please regardless what nerfing decision CCP ultimately makes. Just not sure if a new player will find it interesting enough to stay beyond trial period if CCP keeps nerfing what I call "Introduction Grounds" or "Training Grounds" if all they can do is fly around in hi-sec with nothing to do once the belts/missions/ice belts/poses etc etc is nerfed as the 0.0 idiots are wanting done. It's obvious neither of us will agree with the other, therefore I'll waste no more time posting. However, remember this; If there is ever a movement of so-called hi-sec carebears onto 0.0 sov I'll be there to help as I believe 0.0 sov holders have become complacent in their comfy seats.
Mutnin Amarr Mutineers	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:20:00 - [219] Edited by: Mutnin on 15/08/2011 23:29:26 Originally by: Rikeka If empire dwellers really want no change to empire... FINE. Boost only 0.0... make it ratting or mining there 4 or 5 times more profitable than in empire. Problem solved. No nerf to empire, and 0.0 dwellers are happy (of course, prices would then reflect 0.0 commodities and rewards, since empire is ****, 0.0 determines EVE economy, not the mindless drones in high sec). Looking where your alliance has sov at for the last 24hrs.. there is only a hand full of systems that have any kills in them. Vale of the Silent lol where is the risk in that and why should such a safe haven have more reward than low sec for example that is by far more dangerous? On top of this why should CCP give a buff to Renters, Pets & their masters and make null sec even worse due to the rapid RMTing. Besides that low sec needs a buff just so we can have something worth a crap to shoot at. If low sec is the home of piracy, well we need loot pinatas to pirate. It's pretty sad that high sec gankers can easier make more off piracy than guys in low sec , the so called home of piracy.
Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:21:00 - [220] Originally by: Mutnin Edited by: Mutnin on 15/08/2011 23:10:48 Originally by: Rikeka Low sec is easy. No bubbles. Now, if you are flying something big, without a scout, you are just stupid. But that happens in 0.0 too (only there are bubbles there too). T3 ships can warp through bubbles and most care bearing in null is done by sov holders in their own safe havens, so bubbles on random gates aren't much of an issue with a decent jump bridge network. Hence the reason I said the faction/officers mods should come from low sec & NPC null sec, if it were a risk vs reward issue. PVP doesn't just happen on gates and by far low sec & NPC null are the riskiest places to try and care bear in because there isn't much option to secure your own systems with 20 bubles on the gates and have easy access via jump bridge. 1) Jump Bridges were changed. No huge bridge networks are feasible as in the past. 2) Not all fly T3, specially anti-bubble fitted. 3) A T3, anti-bubble fitted, and with cloak config... sucks for serious PVE in 0.0 Originally by: Generals4 Edited by: Generals4 on 15/08/2011 23:14:32 Originally by: Rikeka If empire dwellers really want no change to empire... FINE. Boost only 0.0... make it ratting or mining there 4 or 5 times more profitable than in empire. Problem solved. No nerf to empire, and 0.0 dwellers are happy (of course, prices would then reflect 0.0 commodities and rewards, since empire is ****, 0.0 determines EVE economy, not the mindless drones in high sec). No mate 0.0 is fine risk vs reward wise. You're just angry some folks earn less than you instead of much less. And aren't mining and ratting already like 2-3x as profitable as in high? Why would you want it even higher? Sounds like you are bitter and greedy Dude, I'm pretty rich, so no "wallet-talking-hidden-agenda" here. And, no. 0.0 is not 2 or 3 times as profitable as chaining lvl 4's.

Dusty Warrior	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:23:00 - [221] Originally by: Saliss Aya So, from all that is being said here, I take it that nullsec (unlike high sec) is a place where the devs would like people to go, but the players aren't going in large enough numbers, or the devs would be happy and this wouldn't be an issue... So, why don't they (the devs) put together a survey, and find out what the majority of their players want and then try to provide this. Problem solved in my opinion. To me this seems like basic business sense. Know your market and today with online marketing, etc, they could survey each player as they logged on. Great proposal, liken the same thing I proposed in other posts. Do away with the CSM and allow the playerbase decide through login voting. However I was told in another post my idea is stupid. Not sure why it's stupid since it would give everyone who PAYS a form of input. Not just the loud mouths in the pockets of the CSM.
Saliss Aya	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:25:00 - [222] I don't care what they do in null sec as long as high sec doesn't have to pay for it. This is negative option billing in my opinion, in that you nerf one area to force players to go to the other area. Why not improve the game by keeping high sec happy and then making low sec even better. That will equal more players in the game. More money too :-D
General Altathamus	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:26:00 - [223] bunch of stupid bears crying about something else now? typical.. This is a good step in the right direction. Too many missioning high sec bears with billions in their wallets in their rare faction pimp missioning ships. The amount of isk people recieve in highsec is just dumb.. And they Never lose anything compared to people that have been living in WH, 0.0 Low the whole time.
Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:27:00 - [224] Originally by: Mutnin Originally by: Rikeka If empire dwellers really want no change to empire... FINE. Boost only 0.0... make it ratting or mining there 4 or 5 times more profitable than in empire. Problem solved. No nerf to empire, and 0.0 dwellers are happy (of course, prices would then reflect 0.0 commodities and rewards, since empire is **, 0.0 determines EVE economy, not the mindless drones in high sec). Looking where your alliance has sov at for the last 24hrs.. there is only a hand full of systems that have any kills in them. Vale of the Silent lol where is the risk in that and why should such a safe haven have more reward than low sec for example that is by far more dangerous? A lot of the northern alliances are right now fighting in the south. Just 3 months ago, the north was much more dangerous than the south. Wont bore you with the politics, cause I don't really care of them myself anyway. And I'm not saying low sec is easy. HELL, I want low sec boosted! A lot! I'd love ice out of high sec and in low sec, I'd like high sec to have only Veld and Scord, rest of empire ores should be in low sec. Damn, I want lvl 4's in low sec**! What you quoted was just a sarcarm from my part. If anything needs boosted, is low sec.
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:28:00 - [225] Just keep in mind what happens to games that cater to the "hardcore"... ...3 words...Vanguard Saga of Heroes... - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:31:00 - [226] Originally by: Rikeka Originally by: Ana Vyr If what the OP says is true, I'm done. This is what I do currently: I run a research POS in high sec, and manufacture T2 goods for sale. I also run level 4 missions on the side. I've spent time in nullsec in an alliance, and it wasn't the type of gameplay I was looking for. My lifestyle requires that I play solo for the most part. If the OP is correct, the proposed changes are a game-killer for me. You would still be able to do lvl 3's in high sec, or move to low sec and do missions there. As for the research, fuel would be moved to Jita no matter what, you can buy it there. Only the ice botters can truly complain of ice being moved out, seriously. I see posts like this and wonder how bad someone can fail at understanding eve and how it works and still play the game. In the example the person gave you, they are paying XXXISK for POS fuel. When the POS fuel becomes more expensive than the income the POS generates, the POS goes away, and possibly the player. If you don't understand how that is game wrecking for non-botters, then you aren't even trying. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:32:00 - [227] Originally by: Saliss Aya I don't care what they do in null sec as long as high sec doesn't have to pay for it. This is negative option billing in my opinion, in that you nerf one area to force players to go to the other area. Why not improve the game by keeping high sec happy and then making low sec even better. That will equal more players in the game. More money too :-D Yes, I can totally see it. CCP should make videos or 2 dudes stationary on a belt, mining in high sec, talking about that chick they ment in Jita 4-4... That will totally boost EVE subs! Seriously, what attracts people to EVE is not that crap, but 0.0 politics, ganks, heists, massive wars (even if lagged), etc. To put it simply, the PVP.
Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:37:00 - [228] Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: Rikeka Originally by: Ana Vyr If what the OP says is true, I'm done. This is what I do currently: I run a research POS in high sec, and manufacture T2 goods for sale. I also run level 4 missions on the side. I've spent time in nullsec in an alliance, and it wasn't the type of gameplay I was looking for. My lifestyle requires that I play solo for the most part. If the OP is correct, the proposed changes are a game-killer for me. You would still be able to do lvl 3's in high sec, or move to low sec and do missions there. As for the research, fuel would be moved to Jita no matter what, you can buy it there. Only the ice botters can truly complain of ice being moved out, seriously. I see posts like this and wonder how bad someone can fail at understanding eve and how it works and still play the game. In the example the person gave you, they are paying XXXISK for POS fuel. When the POS fuel becomes more expensive than the income the POS generates, the POS goes away, and possibly the player. If you don't understand how that is game wrecking for non-botters, then you aren't even trying. That's not how a market behaves. If fuel price increases (and yes, it would), then whatever you can produce of a POS that feeds of that fuel, would also increase on price. Why? 1) Because it's needed for the general EVE economy/market (that is, if it's needed, of course). 2) Less people would at first do it, thus less supply, while same demand. Meaning the items you produce would also increase it's profit margin. It would all even out at the end. Not saying there would be some chaos the first few weeks (and there could not, when people see changes coming, they normally adapt before the patch is even introduced).
Generals4 Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:37:00 - [229] Originally by: Rikeka Originally by: Saliss Aya I don't care what they do in null sec as long as high sec doesn't have to pay for it. This is negative option billing in my opinion, in that you nerf one area to force players to go to the other area. Why not improve the game by keeping high sec happy and then making low sec even better. That will equal more players in the game. More money too :-D Yes, I can totally see it. CCP should make videos or 2 dudes stationary on a belt, mining in high sec, talking about that chick they ment in Jita 4-4... That will totally boost EVE subs! Seriously, what attracts people to EVE is not that crap, but 0.0 politics, ganks, heists, massive wars (even if lagged), etc. To put it simply, the PVP. Yet the majority dwell in high sec. And when it comes to the politics it's all fine and dandy when you're up there making the decisions but being a peon who's only role was to join CTA's like a good boy is what drove me away (along with bubbles). I prefer FW on that aspect, no one is a peon.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:37:00 - [230] Originally by: Rikeka Originally by: Saliss Aya I don't care what they do in null sec as long as high sec doesn't have to pay for it. This is negative option billing in my opinion, in that you nerf one area to force players to go to the other area. Why not improve the game by keeping high sec happy and then making low sec even better. That will equal more players in the game. More money too :-D Yes, I can totally see it. CCP should make videos or 2 dudes stationary on a belt, mining in high sec, talking about that chick they ment in Jita 4-4... That will totally boost EVE subs! Seriously, what attracts people to EVE is not that crap, but 0.0 politics, ganks, heists, massive wars (even if lagged), etc. To put it simply, the PVP. Nevermind I can see that you just talk out of your ass. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.

baltec1	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:38:00 - [231] Originally by: Cipher Jones I see posts like this and wonder how bad someone can fail at understanding eve and how it works and still play the game. In the example the person gave you, they are paying XXXISK for POS fuel. When the POS fuel becomes more expensive than the income the POS generates, the POS goes away, and possibly the player. If you don't understand how that is game wrecking for non-botters, then you aren't even trying. Or you wait it out and start up production again when its profitable. I had to do that the other week when abaddons were selling for 4 million less than it cost to buld them.
Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:43:00 - [232] Originally by: Generals4 Originally by: Rikeka Originally by: Saliss Aya I don't care what they do in null sec as long as high sec doesn't have to pay for it. This is negative option billing in my opinion, in that you nerf one area to force players to go to the other area. Why not improve the game by keeping high sec happy and then making low sec even better. That will equal more players in the game. More money too :-D Yes, I can totally see it. CCP should make videos or 2 dudes stationary on a belt, mining in high sec, talking about that chick they ment in Jita 4-4... That will totally boost EVE subs! Seriously, what attracts people to EVE is not that crap, but 0.0 politics, ganks, heists, massive wars (even if lagged), etc. To put it simply, the PVP. Yet the majority dwell in high sec. And when it comes to the politics it's all fine and dandy when you're up there making the decisions but being a peon who's only role was to join CTA's like a good boy is what drove me away (along with bubbles). I prefer FW on that aspect, no one is a peon. Yet I assure you, it was not the sexy lines of a Iteron V, nor the complexity of the lvl 4 missions that attracted them to EVE on the first place. And I truly dunno about FW's, so won't comment there.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:48:00 - [233] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Cipher Jones I see posts like this and wonder how bad someone can fail at understanding eve and how it works and still play the game. In the example the person gave you, they are paying XXXISK for POS fuel. When the POS fuel becomes more expensive than the income the POS generates, the POS goes away, and possibly the player. If you don't understand how that is game wrecking for non-botters, then you aren't even trying. Or you wait it out and start up production again when its profitable. I had to do that the other week when abaddons were selling for 4 million less than it cost to buld them. Wait it out how? Buy purchasing the game on a monthly basis and then buying plex cards to supplement your income and pay for POS fuel so that it doesn't shut of and go bye bye while you're waiting? . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:49:00 - [234] Originally by: Cipher Jones Edited by: Cipher Jones on 15/08/2011 23:45:20 Originally by: Rikeka Originally by: Saliss Aya I don't care what they do in null sec as long as high sec doesn't have to pay for it. This is negative option billing in my opinion, in that you nerf one area to force players to go to the other area. Why not improve the game by keeping high sec happy and then making low sec even better. That will equal more players in the game. More money too :-D Yes, I can totally see it. CCP should make videos or 2 dudes stationary on a belt, mining in high sec, talking about that chick they ment in Jita 4-4... That will totally boost EVE subs! Seriously, what attracts people to EVE is not that crap, but 0.0 politics, ganks, heists, massive wars (even if lagged), etc. To put it simply, the PVP. Nevermind I can see that you just talk out of your ass. Quote: That's not how a market behaves. If fuel price increases (and yes, it would), then whatever you can produce of a POS that feeds of that fuel, would also increase on price. Why? 1) Because it's needed for the general EVE economy/market (that is, if it's needed, of course). 2) Less people would at first do it, thus less supply, while same demand. Meaning the items you produce would also increase it's profit margin. It would all even out at the end. Not saying there would be some chaos the first few weeks (and there could not, when people see changes coming, they normally adapt before the patch is even introduced). Harbinger, Hurricane, Drake, and Myrmidon, the 4 tier 2 BC's. Only 3 are profitable with a perfect BPO at market "value". It still hasn't evened out from the FIRST time. Do it some more and see if it helps stabilize anything. But then the thinking man already knows the answer... 1) If you honestly believe a video of a guy stationary in a belt, mining, will attract subs, you clearly (and thankfully) don't work for CCP. And I'm sure people sub in WOW because they saw a guy collecting herbs in WoW, right? 2) Harbs, Canes, Drakes, Myrms... Damn... as you put it, no one produces them, so there must be a really shortage of those ships! OMG! Are you for real?!? You clearly know your stuff
Fademist	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:50:00 - [235] Originally by: Rikeka Originally by: Generals4 Originally by: Rikeka Originally by: Saliss Aya I don't care what they do in null sec as long as high sec doesn't have to pay for it. This is negative option billing in my opinion, in that you nerf one area to force players to go to the other area. Why not improve the game by keeping high sec happy and then making low sec even better. That will equal more players in the game. More money too :-D Yes, I can totally see it. CCP should make videos or 2 dudes stationary on a belt, mining in high sec, talking about that chick they ment in Jita 4-4... That will totally boost EVE subs! Seriously, what attracts people to EVE is not that crap, but 0.0 politics, ganks, heists, massive wars (even if lagged), etc. To put it simply, the PVP. Yet the majority dwell in high sec. And when it comes to the politics it's all fine and dandy when you're up there making the decisions but being a peon who's only role was to join CTA's like a good boy is what drove me away (along with bubbles). I prefer FW on that aspect, no one is a peon. Yet I assure you, it was not the sexy lines of a Iteron V, nor the complexity of the lvl 4 missions that attracted them to EVE on the first place. And I truly dunno about FW's, so won't comment there. and why is pvp? u forget that is the only different mmo in the market today ? all the others is like wow clones...
baltec1	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:52:00 - [236] Originally by: Cipher Jones Wait it out how? Buy purchasing the game on a monthly basis and then buying plex cards to supplement your income and pay for POS fuel so that it doesn't shut of and go bye bye while you're waiting? Or you have multiple sources of income to supply isk to keep the pos going. If you have a high sec pos then you can indeed shut it down. Wardecs give ample warning to online a pos and set it up to ****.
Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:56:00 - [237] Originally by: Fademist and why is pvp? u forget that is the only different mmo in the market today ? all the others is like wow clones... You are right. Yet ships exploding in YouTube is what attracts subs. I don't know why, maybe it's the primordial pleasure we feel when we see someone blowing up or something. The violence, the "Got ya, sucker!" feeling of a well executed trap, or heist. CCP, though it's videos and ads, sells PVP. And PVP sells well.
Digital Messiah Gallente Oregami Ultd	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:56:00 - [238] What is the word on incursion placement in high sec? Quote: "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn"
Generals4 Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:57:00 - [239] Edited by: Generals4 on 15/08/2011 23:58:02 Originally by: Rikeka Originally by: Generals4 Originally by: Rikeka Originally by: Saliss Aya I don't care what they do in null sec as long as high sec doesn't have to pay for it. This is negative option billing in my opinion, in that you nerf one area to force players to go to the other area. Why not improve the game by keeping high sec happy and then making low sec even better. That will equal more players in the game. More money too :-D Yes, I can totally see it. CCP should make videos or 2 dudes stationary on a belt, mining in high sec, talking about that chick they ment in Jita 4-4... That will totally boost EVE subs! Seriously, what attracts people to EVE is not that crap, but 0.0 politics, ganks, heists, massive wars (even if lagged), etc. To put it simply, the PVP. Yet the majority dwell in high sec. And when it comes to the politics it's all fine and dandy when you're up there making the decisions but being a peon who's only role was to join CTA's like a good boy is what drove me away (along with bubbles). I prefer FW on that aspect, no one is a peon. Yet I assure you, it was not the sexy lines of a Iteron V, nor the complexity of the lvl 4 missions that attracted them to EVE on the first place. And I truly dunno about FW's, so won't comment there. Well, what attracted them seems quite irrelevant, it's what keeps them in. If it's a fancy intro about what could be a 0.0 experience so be it. Doesn't mean we have to nerf their high sec experience they learned to love after they joined.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.15 23:58:00 - [240] Quote: 2) Harbs, Canes, Drakes, Myrms... Damn... as you put it, no one produces them, so there must be a really shortage of those ships! OMG! Are you for real?!? You clearly know your stuff Rolling Eyes You're pretty ****ing stupid if thats what you think I wrote, because its not. Try harder. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.

Fademist	Posted - 2011.08.16 00:00:00 - [241] Originally by: Rikeka Originally by: Fademist and why is pvp? u forget that is the only different mmo in the market today ? all the others is like wow clones... You are right. Yet ships exploding in YouTube is what attracts subs. I don't know why, maybe it's the primordial pleasure we feel when we see someone blowing up or something. The violence, the "Got ya, sucker!" feeling of a well executed trap, or heist. CCP, though it's videos and ads, sells PVP. And PVP sells well. yes pvp sell but u must admit that to nerf high sec maybe is wrong ..better to buff low-null than nerf something or try to force ppl do what they dont want to do
Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.16 00:01:00 - [242] Edited by: Rikeka on 16/08/2011 00:01:42 To Cypher: You said those ships give no profit... I say someone is clearly producing them, as they are probably the most used ships in the game. Now, if someone is producing them, they clearly do give some sort of profit. It's not like they are seeded to the NPC market hubs, right? It's not exactly what you said, but it was headed there. For our benefit, I went deeper, but maybe it was too fast.
Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.16 00:04:00 - [243] Originally by: Fademist Originally by: Rikeka Originally by: Fademist and why is pvp? u forget that is the only different mmo in the market today ? all the others is like wow clones... You are right. Yet ships exploding in YouTube is what attracts subs. I don't know why, maybe it's the primordial pleasure we feel when we see someone blowing up or something. The violence, the "Got ya, sucker!" feeling of a well executed trap, or heist. CCP, though it's videos and ads, sells PVP. And PVP sells well. yes pvp sell but u must admit that to nerf high sec maybe is wrong ..better to buff low-null than nerf something or try to force ppl do what they dont want to do I agree. If anything, I would prefer low-sec boosted, then maybe (but less) null-sec. Make it much more rewarding to actually risk stuff.
Generals4 Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.16 00:05:00 - [244] I think the best solution would be to add some extra uniqueness to both low and null. Nerfing High would simply make too many people really angry and they won't move to null or low as a result , they will cancel their subs. Maybe Dust will offer such an opportunity. Otherwise all i can see is add some pirate stuff or such.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.16 00:12:00 - [245] Originally by: Rikeka Edited by: Rikeka on 16/08/2011 00:01:42 To Cypher: You said those ships give no profit... I say someone is clearly producing them, as they are probably the most used ships in the game. Now, if someone is producing them, they clearly do give some sort of profit. It's not like they are seeded to the NPC market hubs, right? It's not exactly what you said, but it was headed there. For our benefit, I went deeper, but maybe it was too fast. Still not what I said, just give up, you are not even trying at this point. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Mystical Might Amarr The Imperial Fedaykin	Posted - 2011.08.16 00:13:00 - [246] Don't mind me. I'm just here to fill up my tear jar. Carry On. In my eyes, High-sec is way too risk free. It's really easy for someone to sit in the noob corp and farm level four missions all day (High-sec). In faction warfare (low-sec), although we still have level fours, the risks we take are insanely large compared to those in 0.5+. I can't wait for low-sec to recieve the buffs it needs to make it worth while for other people to move down there, as i'm seeing a serious lack of carebears to milk tears from.
Kira Bellum Amarr Schwarzwald Homeland	Posted - 2011.08.16 00:31:00 - [247] I dont think lvl 4s will go away. I do think theyll be nerfed in hisec. Think about it this way, there are plenty of nonpvp inclined people who want to fly nice and shiny ships in missions for money. a proposed change to keep these people in the game while still nerfing lvl 4s would be something like this... half bounty, LP, and no meta 4 item rewards in hisec. low sec lvl 4s stay the same, and 0.0 rewards are doubled. carebears will do the math and figure out that they are best staying in hisec.... adventurous people will on occasion, or regularly head out with cheapish ships to low sec. so in the end the shiny toy carebears can still do what theyve done before and still make a decent profit at it. but the fact that it will be FOUR times as fast if they missioned in 0.0 will always be on their mind. it wont be exactly 4x as fast, they cant bring the super expensive ships and there must be time spent on logistics. A people should know when they are conquered.
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.16 00:46:00 - [248] Originally by: Cpt Fina Originally by: Dusty Warrior Edited by: Dusty Warrior on 15/08/2011 22:46:39 Captain, Believe me buddy... I understand all of that, but yet again the ones who helped set that up see very little return in the scheme of things. I've been there and done about everything in null there was to do. I was in a position to see how much alliance heads rake in isk wise. Yet, it still doesn't seem enough for them. They want to reach out and destroy hi-sec which has worked fine for 8 years, thus far. The reason why people are losing interest in null sec isn't because of the revenue in hi-sec, but the treatment they recieve in 0.0 by supposed comrads. They're treated as slaves. If you're an industrialists you are expected to mine your quota and respond to CTAs all the while trying to make a little isk on the side. When you are trying to meet your quota the PVPrs are off looking for pew pew leaving industrialists to bid for themselves. If you're a PVP'r you're expected to support yourself while protecting someone's sov with little or no compensation while yet again the corp/alliance heads sit in hi-sec raking in the isk by the billions weekly. Jealous? I make my isk with my own back, not on the back of others. It's a matter of principle for me even if it's a game. If you're unhappy with the way your alliance are run it isn't the fault of the space you're in but the inherent structure of your organisation. There are corrupt leaders in high-sec also. Ok, so there is badly run alliances. I don't see how this relates to the subject. HereÆs how it relates. CCP feels that the reason more people arenÆt in null is there isnÆt enough profit in null compared to high sec. The writer is indicating, and accurately so, that people arenÆt in null because they donÆt want to put up with the bull of the corps and alliances large enough to survive there. The indication is that people are in high sec because they like their independence and the relatively bull free of smaller corps.
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.16 00:48:00 - [249] Originally by: Rikeka If empire dwellers really want no change to empire... FINE. Boost only 0.0... make it ratting or mining there 4 or 5 times more profitable than in empire. Problem solved. No nerf to empire, and 0.0 dwellers are happy (of course, prices would then reflect 0.0 commodities and rewards, since empire is ****, 0.0 determines EVE economy, not the mindless drones in high sec). Then tell that to CCP cause it isnÆt what theyÆre proposing. Regarding mindless dronesàààà.isnÆt that what all those null sec sheep are? Drones buzzing around their queens?
Ladie Scarlet GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.08.16 01:33:00 - [250] Originally by: Windjammer The writer is indicating, and accurately so, that people arenÆt in null because they donÆt want to put up with the bull of the corps and alliances large enough to survive there. The indication is that people are in high sec because they like their independence and the relatively bull free of smaller corps. You literally have no clue how nullsec works.

Bagehi Association of Commonwealth Enterprises	Posted - 2011.08.16 01:33:00 - [251] I'm laughing. Complaints about nerfing anoms, now complaints about nerfing high sec. Good I say. Fewer risk free activities I say. More player-player interaction is good for Eve because it is, above all else, the niche. This signature is useless, but it is red.
Issler Dainze Minmatar Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord	Posted - 2011.08.16 01:54:00 - [252] Removing ice and ore types from high sec is not the answer. You need to make low sec and 0.0 worth going to with unique experiences, not just more and shinier of the same ol'. Here is what I would do if I ran the 'verse. Low sec is where you make drugs and smuggle. I also introduce the idea of quasi concord like player possees. Note, I would make the possee mechanic something that allowed for "less than honest" security that could do things like impose "gate taxes" and other "security fees" for transit. I'd also introduce comets that allowed collection of rare moon minerals for skilled risk taking miners. Comets would require active action to mine and require non-trivially expensive ship types that would need active security. For 0.0 I'd introduce a mechanism to allow SOV controlled NPC elements for security including gate guns and I'd totally revamp the combat system to make supercaps and giant fleets less useful. Basically make the biggest ships support elements for advancing fleets but not directly super weapons. Make combat encounters optimized for smaller fleet sizes with a greater mix of elements. Also, and I know I'm going to get slammed for this, I'd create a SOV holder controlled NPC mining system. BOTs the SOV holder can deploy and allow to run 24/7. They would have a controller that had to be deployed where the resources are collected automatically and they would consume fuel. They would be expensive and exciting new targets (make them take a long time to take down to keep them vulnerable if someone wants to pop them) Let's face it, the big SOV holders bot there anyways, lets make a system to allow that officially and also make it an expensive resource that can be targeted by aggressors. Also introduce a new WH gate that someone with the highest SOV could use to stabilize the entrance to a WH. Again it would need fuel and would be a nice target. I would also modify the SOV mechanism so that you can only have SOV in systems that you are active in. No more empty wasted systems. You have to use it or lose it. Just a few ideas that sound better than nerfing high sec. Issler
Dusty Warrior	Posted - 2011.08.16 01:58:00 - [253] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Originally by: Windjammer The writer is indicating, and accurately so, that people arenÆt in null because they donÆt want to put up with the bull of the corps and alliances large enough to survive there. The indication is that people are in high sec because they like their independence and the relatively bull free of smaller corps. You literally have no clue how nullsec works. Really? Is that the only response you 0.0 carebears can give? Every time someone says something negative about 0.0 the response is that we don't understand. Dammit... get a new line as many of us so called lo-hi sec carebears have lived in 0.0, we KNOW! You 0.0 carebears really need to refresh your screen and come up with a new line. We know! All anyone needs to look at is DOTLAN.COM and see how much pvp takes place in your so called impoverished 0.0 sov. While you're looking, take a look at pvp statistics in lo and hi sec... mkay?
Rhaegor Stormborn BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.	Posted - 2011.08.16 02:07:00 - [254] Originally by: Miss Rabblt risk vs reward High sec ***gots can rot.
xavier69 Gallente Stark Enterprises LLC	Posted - 2011.08.16 03:30:00 - [255] Edited by: xavier69 on 16/08/2011 03:38:02 Edited by: xavier69 on 16/08/2011 03:37:33 Tippia Let me put this in simple words you can understand and maybe the devs can I as this toon I have 45m sp and I donÆt give FUK about low sec or 0.0 If I wanted to fly a fuking ship in low sec or 0.0 I would Obviously I donÆt feel like getting rapzed by ganking azzholes 24/7 so I dont I fly a rattlesnake with Max skills in it and do missions, if ccp dictates to me one more time how i will play there game THEY CAN ** OFF AND I WILL UNSUB AND NEVER LOOK BACK Sorry telling me how to play your mmo when its losing players by the droves is a pretty dumb idea, but seeing you plan out an mmo with 200k accounts using a 3 dolla marker board already tells me your idiots. The eve store aur thing is a great example of that The monocle debacle and eve store lost you easily 10k accounts and this idiot type of move would lose you another 25k or more accounts if eve is in business to lose money your doing a GREAT JOB I would say 80% of the high sec people would leave over the next year due to repeated deaths. While the ***s on this forum calling for this would be the one doing the ganking and profiting Thus your game would just get smaller and a few greed ***s would get richer at the cost of your games sub count Lets do this cause 70 dollar monocles didnÆt ** off enough players into quitting ! XOXOXOXO
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.16 03:41:00 - [256] Originally by: xavier69 Obviously I donÆt feel like getting rapzed by ganking azzholes 24/7 so I dont Yes? And? It's not like that happens ~~in low or nullsec~~ anywhere. Quote: I fly a rattlesnake with Max skills in it and do missions, if ccp dictates to me one more time how i will play there game ôOne more timeö? When did they do it the last time? And what makes you think they'll do it in the future? But more to the point that was being made: so? You still don't need a 500M ISK ship to run missions in lowsec. Quote: Sorry telling me how to play your mmo Good thing they're not doing that, then. Quote: 3 dolla marker board You keep bringing this one up. Why? What's wrong with white boards? They're pretty much unbeatable as group discussion tools. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
xavier69 Gallente Stark Enterprises LLC	Posted - 2011.08.16 03:46:00 - [257] Level 4 missions in low sec = cancel sub forever Hopefully you idiots can get that i wont fly t1 trash with 45m sp due to gankers, if thatÆs it ill play one of the 100x mmo out there that donÆt playact to online predators XOXOXOXO
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.16 03:52:00 - [258] Originally by: xavier69 Level 4 missions in low sec = cancel sub forever àwhich they're not even discussing. Quote: i wont fly t1 trash with 45m sp due to gankers Ehmà why not? If there are lots of gankers around, a T1 ship will certainly be a good choice. You'd be surprised what "T1 trash" is capable of if you fit and fly it properlyà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Dusty Warrior	Posted - 2011.08.16 03:53:00 - [259] Edited by: Dusty Warrior on 16/08/2011 03:58:48 Originally by: xavier69 Level 4 missions in low sec = cancel sub forever Hopefully you idiots can get that i wont fly t1 trash with 45m sp due to gankers, if thatÆs it ill play one of the 100x mmo out there that donÆt playact to online predators Not sure they care buddy. Isn't it apparent by now the most of the ones wanting to nerf hi/lo/wh only care about padding their wallets? Short of doing away with the CSM the next solution would be everyone in hi-sec join forces and go from null system to system removing all 0.0 inhabitants until they shut their mouths, of which I'm not sure it wouldn't be a bad idea to just go ahead and clean out the trash in null anyway. Seems they're the ones doing the most whining as of late. All the time making claims lo/hi/wh peeps are tearing up. Actually... come to think of it... not sure lo/hi/wh people were whining about anything until 0.0 carebears started this debacle.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors	Posted - 2011.08.16 04:01:00 - [260] Edited by: ShahFluffers on 16/08/2011 04:05:17 Originally by: Windjammer CCP feels that the reason more people arenÆt in null is there isnÆt enough profit in null compared to high sec. The writer is indicating, and accurately so, that people arenÆt in null because they donÆt want to put up with the bull of the corps and alliances large enough to survive there. The indication is that people are in high sec because they like their independence and the relatively bull free of smaller corps. THIS, THIS, A THOUSAND TIMES THIS!!!! As I said in a thread quite awhile back... Originally by: ShahFluffers [...] the almost oppressive nature of the 0.0 corp's/alliance's organization and structure [...] During my short tenure out there, it was indeed very profitable.... however the whole experience was soured when I had to input my API multiple times to join several different forums and comm systems, set those up, find the right channels, get the right permissions, find the right channels again, answer questions as to WHY I have these permissions, ask for the permissions back again, then having to drop everything to join an op that requires you use EXACTLY the ship/fittings that you have no skills for, and then defend your skill queue because everyone in the corp/alliance has a major hard-on for a specific race's ship/tactics and considers everything else worthless. I'd rather deal with the pirates in Amamake than join any 0.0 alliance. _______________________ "Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown

Jerry Pepridge	Posted - 2011.08.16 05:05:00 - [261] this thread is p cool. _________________________________________________ Misty McGinnity Doesn't have an iPhone.
Ryhss Caldari The Excecutorans	Posted - 2011.08.16 05:33:00 - [262] Originally by: Thorn Galen If this is true, if this happens, then it's game over for me. Same here.
Obsidian Hawk RONA Corporation RONA Directorate	Posted - 2011.08.16 05:37:00 - [263] Originally by: Jack Tronic Edited by: Jack Tronic on 16/08/2011 05:04:38 LOL, nerf ice mining -> fuel spikes -> suddenly wspace is expensive -> suddenly 3billion tengu hulls to cover pos expenses -> WIN I LIKE THIS NERF!!!!!!!!!!! Man, I would ****ing get a 10000000000 terabyte harddrive just to fraps the month long failcascade of most of eve after that. QUOTED from the actually feedback thread. If that isn't the best arguement not to nerf highsec ice then lol. quick everyone buy lokis and tengus.
Mistah Ewedynao Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.16 05:38:00 - [264] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet I am Lady Spank's Goon main/alt. Get your buddie Mittanus to help you with character set up next time around.... This time around hopefully somebody with even HALF a clue will see this farce as another Alliance power grab....and DUMP Greyscale as a Dev.
Ladie Scarlet GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.08.16 05:52:00 - [265] Originally by: Dusty Warrior Really? Is that the only response you 0.0 carebears can give? Every time someone says something negative about 0.0 the response is that we don't understand. Yes, really. When the same ignorant statements are made about nullsec from people who don't live there, have never lived there and never plan on living there then it's clear that the people making them don't understand how nullsec works. Especially when it comes to Windjammer...he has an axe to grind and an obvious agenda so nobody should be taking anything he says seriously.
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2011.08.16 05:56:00 - [266] Originally by: Bagehi I'm laughing. Complaints about nerfing anoms, now complaints about nerfing high sec. Good I say. Fewer risk free activities I say. More main-alt interaction is good for Eve because it is, above all else, the niche. fixed it for you
Nicolo da'Vicenza Amarr Divine Power. Atlas.	Posted - 2011.08.16 06:08:00 - [267] Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 16/08/2011 06:12:26 Originally by: Mistah Ewedynao Originally by: Ladie Scarlet I am Lady Spank's Goon main/alt. Get your buddie Mittanus to help you with character set up next time around.... This time around hopefully somebody with even HALF a clue will see this farce as another Alliance power grab....and DUMP Greyscale as a Dev. It's more like CCP has realized that the only thing drawing in new players into EVE is player-driven content and word of mouth. To this end they've put out an eve wiki and now eveisreal.net to harness this resource. And which players are generating said content? Nullsec players are. Pirates are. The smug NPC corp L4 mission runner aint generating squat other then a devaluation of ISK and flooding of the market. So don't be surprised that high-sec players aren't #1 on CCP's priority list. CCP wants as many people as possible making headlines in the news, making propaganda posters, stylish gameplay videos and spreading word of mouth about EVE-Online to prospective new players. And floating around in a freighter moving trit from Jita to Amarr isn't exactly doing that.
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.16 06:12:00 - [268] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Originally by: Windjammer The writer is indicating, and accurately so, that people arenÆt in null because they donÆt want to put up with the bull of the corps and alliances large enough to survive there. The indication is that people are in high sec because they like their independence and the relatively bull free of smaller corps. You literally have no clue how nullsec works. I see. So the little drone bee from the giant corp/alliance is going to tell me all about how it doesnÆt require a strong (sizable) corp to survive in null sec. Hypocrisy anyone? Seems to be flowing freely.
Lady Aja	Posted - 2011.08.16 06:17:00 - [269] Originally by: Ana Vyr If the OP is correct, the proposed changes are a game-killer for me. hmm how strange. will be 100% oppisite for me.. I would welcome the chance to be able to build t2 ships without there being a tech bottle-neck in the game. imo thisis a long awaited change to the game.
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.16 06:21:00 - [270] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Originally by: Dusty Warrior Really? Is that the only response you 0.0 carebears can give? Every time someone says something negative about 0.0 the response is that we don't understand. Yes, really. When the same ignorant statements are made about nullsec from people who don't live there, have never lived there and never plan on living there then it's clear that the people making them don't understand how nullsec works. Especially when it comes to Windjammer...he has an axe to grind and an obvious agenda so nobody should be taking anything he says seriously. What axe and what agenda? IÆm responding to monumentally moronic suggestions from CCPàà..again. Well, that and your simplistic duplicity.

Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.16 06:24:00 - [271] Originally by: Lady Aja Originally by: Ana Vyr If the OP is correct, the proposed changes are a game-killer for me. hmm how strange. will be 100% oppisite for me.. I would welcome the chance to be able to build t2 ships without there being a tech bottle-neck in the game. imo thisis a long awaited change to the game. WhatÆs stopping you from building T2 ships? If you canÆt do it now, thereÆs nothing in the proposals that is going to allow you to do it later.
Mistah Ewedynao Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.16 06:31:00 - [272] Cause nobody mines trit in null sec. They can't be bothered, too busy hunting BILLION isk officer mods.
chicoree	Posted - 2011.08.16 06:35:00 - [273] If this is true, then it seems like CCP is laying the final blow on EVE.
Dusty Warrior	Posted - 2011.08.16 06:48:00 - [274] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Originally by: Dusty Warrior Really? Is that the only response you 0.0 carebears can give? Every time someone says something negative about 0.0 the response is that we don't understand. Yes, really. When the same ignorant statements are made about nullsec from people who don't live there, have never lived there and never plan on living there then it's clear that the people making them don't understand how nullsec works. Especially when it comes to Windjammer...he has an axe to grind and an obvious agenda so nobody should be taking anything he says seriously. I have no idea the experience windjammer might or might not have in 0.0. I speak for myself and have extensive experience living in 0.0. However, in your delusional world of 0.0 living you think you and anyone who lives in 0.0 has an entitlement to change lo/hi/wh space to cater to you? It's abundantly clear some of the members of the present CSM and posters here are totally clueless to the mechanics of some parts of EVE, yet they still try to change something they have no clue about. What surprises me is that you 0.0 carebears still believe in the delusion that you make up the majority of the playerbase. Amazing! Anywhoo... whatever floats your boat. Not even sure why I'm responding to someone in an alliance that idolizes noob griefing via so called security deposits, full api requirements and suggesting noobs to contract over their assets only to steal said assets because you fail in everything else but the lowest form of EVE play. Guess I'll say it again, whatever floats your boat.
Mistah Ewedynao Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.16 06:53:00 - [275] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Can any of you other Goon forum Ho's get that Wannabe Lawyer Mutten's..erm Mippens...anyway it doesn't matter, he makes BILLIONS of isk per day off us. That's all the abuse I need....for now. Very truly yours, Lady Spanks main (twisted pervert)
Panda Name Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2011.08.16 06:56:00 - [276] you carebears are hilarious. first of all, none of this will happen in your lifetime. second of all, the proposed changes would be good for the game, and despite their potential outcome (which will never happen), high sec missioning and t1 ore mining will still have a place due to its decent payouts coupled with the repetition granted such a bear due to the safety of empire. high sec bears, lol. what's funny though is that this thread will not be anywhere near the level of the null-sec bear threadnaught.
Azure Moonlight Atomic Core Industries and Science	Posted - 2011.08.16 06:56:00 - [277] Wake up, CCP, are great deal of your fanbase loves and enjoys high sec activities in relative safety. This active, valuable and paying part of your game community is fed up with being belittled and treatet as second class gamers. And definetly FED UP with being forced to go to nullsec!
Nicolo da'Vicenza Amarr Divine Power. Atlas.	Posted - 2011.08.16 07:08:00 - [278] Originally by: Mistah Ewedynao Cause nobody mines trit in null sec. They can't be bothered, too busy hunting BILLION isk officer mods. Why would anyone mine trit in a belt where anyone can kill you at a moment's notice when they're competing against people who can mine trit 23/7 because they don't have to worry about being attacked? When additionally, those competitors' product are merely a couple of jump freighter trips away.
Hecatonis Amarr	Posted - 2011.08.16 07:25:00 - [279] Originally by: ShahFluffers Edited by: ShahFluffers on 16/08/2011 04:05:17 Originally by: Windjammer CCP feels that the reason more people arenÆt in null is there isnÆt enough profit in null compared to high sec. The writer is indicating, and accurately so, that people arenÆt in null because they donÆt want to put up with the bull of the corps and alliances large enough to survive there. The indication is that people are in high sec because they like their independence and the relatively bull free of smaller corps. THIS, THIS, A THOUSAND TIMES THIS!!!! +1 i work in nul, but live in highsec. why? because the cost of having to deal with the drama and the requirements to just move around takes the fun out of the game. i do not want to have to go through the player created hell of being in a nulsec alliance. all i want is to come on my computer when i get home and play. talk to some corpmates jump through a WH do our thing and leave. thats it. CCP can do what every they like to nul, but sadly for many of us, its the players that ruin the experience. __________________________________________________ stop acting like tw*ts and use your brain
Phelan Votronski	Posted - 2011.08.16 07:45:00 - [280] 10/10 OP Though lolbears are traditionally easy to bait and Greyscale gave you a really nice forward pass. Now can people please remember that hisec has pretty much been buffed and buffed again for 5 years straight? Just recently they introduced incursions which (or so they say) allows for a much better income than even lvl4. They're not going to nerf hisec. Not even one tiny bit. It's all smoke and mirrors to make nullbears feel special and cover up how very little content the coming 0.0 changes really have. The idea of everyone else getting a huge nerf down the road will string them along for the next two years. Just wait and see.

Nicolo da'Vicenza Amarr Divine Power. Atlas.	Posted - 2011.08.16 07:45:00 - [281] Originally by: Hecatonis +1 i work in nul, but live in highsec. why? because the cost of having to deal with the drama and the requirements to just move around takes the fun out of the game. i do not want to have to go through the player created hell of being in a nulsec alliance. all i want is to come on my computer when i get home and play. talk to some corpmates jump through a WH do our thing and leave. thats it. CCP can do what every they like to nul, but sadly for many of us, its the players that ruin the experience. You can still do that while grinding level 3 missions instead of 4s in Empire, problem solved.
catinboots Minmatar Vintage heavy industries	Posted - 2011.08.16 08:28:00 - [282] The dev blog is a collection of ideas , and you are invited to give your own feedback So if you feel strongly toward it i suggest. To go and post your own opinion about those ideas Reading those feed backs i get the feeling. That alot of the industrial/mining reforms are not taken positive Some of the other ideas i can support but not the idusteial/ mining reforms So go and post your feedback ________________________________________ Minmatar are like jedi knights, we use ductape as our force, it has a darkside and a sticky side
Signal11th	Posted - 2011.08.16 08:35:00 - [283] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Originally by: Dusty Warrior Really? Is that the only response you 0.0 carebears can give? Every time someone says something negative about 0.0 the response is that we don't understand. Yes, really. When the same ignorant statements are made about nullsec from people who don't live there, have never lived there and never plan on living there then it's clear that the people making them don't understand how nullsec works. Especially when it comes to Windjammer...he has an axe to grind and an obvious agenda so nobody should be taking anything he says seriously. And yet you offer no other reasoning as to why he knows nothing about nullsec, The mega alliances of 0.0 is what ccp needs to sort out to get the small corp and small alliances into 0.0 at the moment you either have to be pets or renters which to alot of people isn't acceptable hence they will not go into 0.0 at the moment. It's better to be thought the fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt, which is sadly a phrase you goons should really think about when you post.
Gwenywell Shumuku	Posted - 2011.08.16 08:46:00 - [284] Yes, good ideas, make 0.0 more attractive...like lets say, give them some form of anomaly to make ****loads of isk. Then watch as everyone and his 5 alts join 0.0 to make said isk. Then watch CCP-economists break out in tears as inflation skyrockets out of control, and lets watch how the emergency NERF turns out. 0.0 is profitable because FEW PPL ARE THERE in relation to the large populus living in lesser valuable space. BUT...the higher income in 0.0 should not be visible at first glance, or everyone will want to do it. But hey, go on and repeat your mistakes.
Aramatheia	Posted - 2011.08.16 10:04:00 - [285] Originally by: RAW23 Edited by: RAW23 on 15/08/2011 14:30:42 For all the risk vs. reward posters: How much isk do you actually lose through combat and the threat of combat in a week? My, admittedly limited, experience of null is that people will lose ships now and again, which is hardly surprising since people go to null SO THEY CAN PVP, but not with the kind of regularity that causes any serious financial impact (most fleet losses also get reimbursed by alliances from the vast isk flow from that ultra high risk activity, moon-mining). So, I can see the need to have some extra cool stuff in null to compensate for the limited risks. But the idea that people who want to spend their time PvPing should receive huge rewards for doing what they already want to do, and that all those who don't want to PvP should be penalised for wanting to play the game their own way seems like a steaming crock of **** to me. Of course, if someone can enlighten me on the great burdens and sufferings that I neither experienced in null nor ever had mentioned to me by those friends of mine who have spent many years there, I would greatly appreciate the lesson. In my, again, limited experience the thing that nullsec dwellers tend to whine about are their alliance hierarchies and, demands and CTA's, not the risk. this post is another great way to categorize the difference in viewpoint postings on this highsec vs low/null topic. Those who dont see the need to have EVERYTHING as "your ship will be blow up no challenge no chance go die now" as would be the case if there was no highsec are able to type well crafted and thoughtfull posts. With sentences, paragraphs and punctuation. Those on the other side... just use silly 2 year old name calling in thier mishmash 15-word-tops posts. Anyways lol... I'd be fine with pvp EVERYWHERE if you werent garanteed to lose everything (unless you were good, well equiped and had alot of SP). Some people want the act of stepping out of any station in any security space to grant them instant rights to kill you over and over (discarding wardecs cause thats what a wardec does!). This however is not Halo. Players DO NOT res with new guns, ammo and full health/shields. Every ship loss is gone forever and killing pods furthers the loss. What people want is the ability to do certain things with a degree of safety. In eve there is no rules against a player in a rubbish ship jamming logis in incursions or outright killing them or the infamous hulk suicide kills. Those have a sufference (often limited if any) to the pvper and to the victim. Highsec space is also unsafe if wardecced as it should be. Low/null i havent been too and currently have no plans to do so But who knows the pvp bug might infect me yet. From what i understand lvl 5 missions already exist in null/low, maybe they could move lvl 5's to low away from stations and have lvl 6 missions in null sec as a higher tier of valuable mission/loot income for the high risk inhabitants. Also maybe boost the value further of low/null incursions. Also perhaps they could increase the yield on pvp drops in low/nullsec. Lower the sec rating the more gear that may survive a ships destruction? I'm not against low/null sec, but i wouldnt support moving pve all into the pvp realm. Purely pvp games already exist and they work, cause they operate on viable and long term principles (dying isnt the loss of everything). I would support further boosting of the value of low/null offer pve options out there of greater worth (much greater?) with loot and rewards appropriate. Leave highsec space as it is. Oh except the mining that can be nerfed in highsec. Its easy enough to make cash on veldspar, dont need rare stuff in highsec. switches on hardeners Kiddy Name Call hits Aramatheia for 0.0. She is immune! /cheer
Myz Toyou APOCALYPSE LEGION	Posted - 2011.08.16 10:15:00 - [286] Awsum thread, lots of idiots argueing over stuff that probably never will hit Tranq. High sec bears in epic fear of there ISK/hour ratio maybe dropping and Null sec bears in rage over the richness of high sec. Would read again.
Neurotica	Posted - 2011.08.16 10:49:00 - [287] same old issues IMO, and CCP stil putting subscriptions over gameplay. QUALITY not quanity CCP, sigh...
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.16 11:07:00 - [288] Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza Originally by: Hecatonis +1 i work in nul, but live in highsec. why? because the cost of having to deal with the drama and the requirements to just move around takes the fun out of the game. i do not want to have to go through the player created hell of being in a nulsec alliance. all i want is to come on my computer when i get home and play. talk to some corpmates jump through a WH do our thing and leave. thats it. CCP can do what every they like to nul, but sadly for many of us, its the players that ruin the experience. You can still do that while grinding level 3 missions instead of 4s in Empire, problem solved. Yeah. Until the leet PVPers start whining about having level 3's removed from hi sec because easy targets are still not flocking into their gatecamps. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Neurotica	Posted - 2011.08.16 11:14:00 - [289] Why gate damage should be not linear.
Jasdemi Interstellar Whine Brewery Monocle Overlords	Posted - 2011.08.16 11:26:00 - [290] Lol, carebears are crying like pathetic girls in puberty. ----------- Jasdemi@Google+

Dirk Decibel	Posted - 2011.08.16 11:28:00 - [291] A heap of good intentions, but in the end we all know CCP will **** it up beyond belief, getting nowhere near their desired goals
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.08.16 11:30:00 - [292] Originally by: Phelan Votronski Now can people please remember that hisec has pretty much been buffed and buffed again for 5 years straight? Just recently they introduced incursions which (or so they say) allows for a much better income than even lvl4. There are incursions in null and low too if you hadn't noticed, it's not like they're a highsec only activity. - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Thorn Galen Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.08.16 11:48:00 - [293] Carebear facts. 1. A "Carebear" is someone who wants to play this game. 2. Contrary to local forum belief, Carebears live in High and Low sec. 3. You are automatically labelled a carebear if you enjoy the game without partaking in Pvp. 4. If you do not do pvp, you are a carebear. 5. If you're not a "Carebear", I don't care. 6. I don't care if this sandbox is just two inches deep and full of pizz (as mentioned in some other post), it's a sandbox and I am paying to play in it the way I want to play it, not the way you want me to play it. It's my time, my money, my entertainment, trying to force me to pvp is like trying to force me to watch a movie I do not like. 7. Throwing your toys out of your cot just because I prefer HiSec and refuse to go peeveepee you is not going to make me peeveepee you. 8. Carebears are now pathetic teenage girls ? ROFL!! You have huge issues, whoever you are. I think you have a monocle stuck sideways up your chutney chute with an attitude like that. 'Nuff said. List goes on, but I'm tired of walls.
Amsterdam Conversations	Posted - 2011.08.16 11:49:00 - [294] Originally by: Barakkus Originally by: Phelan Votronski Now can people please remember that hisec has pretty much been buffed and buffed again for 5 years straight? Just recently they introduced incursions which (or so they say) allows for a much better income than even lvl4. There are incursions in null and low too if you hadn't noticed, it's not like they're a highsec only activity. In case you didn't notice, in 0.0 everyone can just shoot each other, no 50 random people will join a fleet. Thinking that this might or should happen is not a possibility, it's ******ed.
Sarmatiko	Posted - 2011.08.16 12:03:00 - [295] Edited by: Sarmatiko on 16/08/2011 12:04:02 Originally by: Phelan Votronski Though lolbears are traditionally easy to bait and Greyscale gave you a really nice forward pass. Now can people please remember that hisec has pretty much been buffed and buffed again for 5 years straight? Just recently they introduced incursions which (or so they say) allows for a much better income than even lvl4. Nullsec also have same Incursions with omgwtf rare drop of Sansha supercapital. This is not enough for you? Also who is talking about lolbears? My industrial alt have more kills than you (since you have zero) so please stfu and gtfo, nullbear
Thornat	Posted - 2011.08.16 12:33:00 - [296] The problem with many high sec players is that they have an impression or vision what low sec and null sec are while the reality is very very different. The perception is that everyone there is trying to kill you, they are all bad ass 100 million point characters and are eagerly looking for victims by the hundreds of thousands. Here is the reality. First off, null sec is practically an empty wasteland. I have spent hours looking for someone ... anyone in null sec more times than I care to admit. Second. Everyone in null sec assumes three things about you right off the bat. 1. That you know what your doing and your a PvPer. 2. That you have friends waiting around the corner and you being their alone is some kind of trap. 3. That the odds are most likely in your favor. Why? Becaue people flying in null sec don't want to get blown up anymore than you do. Ya their are large alliances out their hugging their asteroids and on occassion they squable but its not the all out gank fest everyone things it is. Hell I feel a hell of a lot safer in null sec they I do in Jitta, now thats a freaking dangerous place. All I'm saying here is that this perception of null and low sec as being some sort of area filled with uber pirates who always have everyone outgunned is a comfplete falicy. I took my 4 day old alt and three of my friends who are all 4 day old characters out into low sec last night for some PvE in frigates. We ran up on a Dramiel and Hurricane piloted by 3 year old characters. In PvE fittings those guys ran from us like chumps as soon as we locked them and started firing. How did this happen? Simple. They where just like us. Just a group of guys out in low sec trying to make a buck.. We found each other and me and my friends acted like we knew what we where doing and tackled them like pirates. They had to assume we where a bunch of bad ass vets booked and ran. Later they realized we where nubs and started hunting us but the point Im trying to make is that the cowardice and victim mentality of high sec players is really what ensures that PvP players always win.. A player doing level 4 missions solo in a Navy Megatron or whatever is a real freaking threat in low and null sec and the presumption that you are just a victim is just silly. You are indeed a bad ass and can take on a lot of what is out their. Skill points are meaningless.. in Eve its all about attitude and calculated risk. Show some balls and you will find all these pirate corps and pvpers talk a big game but in the end the only advantage they have over you is they took the time to learn whats what out there and thats really not that hard to do. Its all just perceptions. Things are not at all what people in high sec think they are.
Lonox Gallente Hilmar is Lord	Posted - 2011.08.16 12:36:00 - [297] Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza Originally by: Mistah Ewedynao Cause nobody mines trit in null sec. They can't be bothered, too busy hunting BILLION isk officer mods. Why would anyone mine trit in a belt where anyone can kill you at a moment's notice when they're competing against people who can mine trit 23/7 because they don't have to worry about being attacked? When additionally, those competitors' product are merely a couple of jump freighter trips away. Oh boo hoo! You guys have it so tough out there, what with being able to run multiple jump freighters back and forth filled with high-ends to buy our ill-gotten lowly trit. You poor little things. There's a reason your morons are bored. You can throw down and lose hundreds of billions worth of supercaps and titans without breaking a sweat. Maybe if anything you people did out there actually mattered anymore, you wouldn't have all this time to obsess over what everyone else was doing. Seriously, it's unhealthy. You people think you're actually helping your case when you brag about how much you blew up today but you're only making our case for us. Maybe when the loud minority failquit whiners realise that you don't matter anymore and that none of this is actually going to happen, you'll finally actually quit. Your time is up, carebears rule eve now and we demand ponies and handholding! Your fail troll threads and posts were funny at first but now it's just pathetic to watch. "Hey guys! Look at us! Look what we're doing out here!" "Uh guys?! Come on guys! Look! Please? Please look at us." What eve needs is more boots, more pants and gold ammo. Ok, in this next scene, you realise I'm right and you are mad. Action! Originally by: Holly Cleland has red bruising and veins popping up where the monocle plugs in. No wonder you people are so angry, you're doing it wrong.
spyor	Posted - 2011.08.16 12:47:00 - [298] Originally by: Thorn Galen Carebear facts. 1. A "Carebear" is someone who wants to play this game. 2. Contrary to local forum belief, Carebears live in High and Low sec. 3. You are automatically labelled a carebear if you enjoy the game without partaking in Pvp. 4. If you do not do pvp, you are a carebear. 5. If you're not a "Carebear", I don't care. 6. I don't care if this sandbox is just two inches deep and full of pizz (as mentioned in some other post), it's a sandbox and I am paying to play in it the way I want to play it, not the way you want me to play it. It's my time, my money, my entertainment, trying to force me to pvp is like trying to force me to watch a movie I do not like. 7. Throwing your toys out of your cot just because I prefer HiSec and refuse to go peeveepee you is not going to make me peeveepee you. 8. Carebears are now pathetic teenage girls ? ROFL!! You have huge issues, whoever you are. I think you have a monocle stuck sideways up your chutney chute with an attitude like that. 'Nuff said. List goes on, but I'm tired of walls. This... been there done it, don't have time to ***** about waiting for corp/alliance to get its ass in gear to play!
catinboots Minmatar Vintage heavy industries	Posted - 2011.08.16 13:04:00 - [299] Originally by: Jasdemi Lol, carebears are crying like pathetic girls in puberty. You you are a idiot sir It is likeanother post on here I pay and play this game how I like to play it not how you like. Me to play this game My money , my time my entertainment ________________________________________ Minmatar are like jedi knights, we use ductape as our force, it has a darkside and a sticky side
Timeto Die	Posted - 2011.08.16 13:11:00 - [300] Take away bubbles from 0.0 and I might attempt to venture there. I never managed to scoot into 0.0 without guaranteed certain insta-pop death even in a shuttle. One problem is that the CSM are obviously going to be well weighted to the hardcore, not the casual. I'm not willing to make Eve into a second job. When I do mine ice on occasion in high sec for a relaxing couple of hours, you know how much I make? Not much. Not much risk, not much reward really. In one line: I want to casually play when I want, how I want. Thanks. ----------------------------------------------- You want soft toilet paper? Go play WoW. Eve is Hotel Bastardo. -----------------------------------------------

Tulip O'Hare	Posted - 2011.08.16 13:19:00 - [301] Originally by: Thornat The problem with many high sec players is that they have an impression or vision what low sec and null sec are while the reality is very very different. The perception is that everyone there is trying to kill you, they are all bad ass 100 million point characters and are eagerly looking for victims by the hundreds of thousands. Here is the reality. First off, null sec is practically an empty wasteland. I have spent hours looking for someone ... anyone in null sec more times than I care to admit. Second. Everyone in null sec assumes three things about you right off the bat. 1. That you know what your doing and your a PvPer. 2. That you have friends waiting around the corner and you being their alone is some kind of trap. 3. That the odds are most likely in your favor. Why? Becaue people flying in null sec don't want to get blown up anymore than you do. Ya their are large alliances out their hugging their asteroids and on occassion they squable but its not the all out gank fest everyone things it is. Hell I feel a hell of a lot safer in null sec they I do in Jitta, now thats a freaking dangerous place. All I'm saying here is that this perception of null and low sec as being some sort of area filled with uber pirates who always have everyone outgunned is a comfplete falicy. I took my 4 day old alt and three of my friends who are all 4 day old characters out into low sec last night for some PvE in frigates. We ran up on a Dramiel and Hurricane piloted by 3 year old characters. In PvE fittings those guys ran from us like chumps as soon as we locked them and started firing. How did this happen? Simple. They where just like us. Just a group of guys out in low sec trying to make a buck.. We found each other and me and my friends acted like we knew what we where doing and tackled them like pirates. They had to assume we where a bunch of bad ass vets booked and ran. Later they realized we where nubs and started hunting us but the point Im trying to make is that the cowardice and victim mentality of high sec players is really what ensures that PvP players always win.. A player doing level 4 missions solo in a Navy Megatron or whatever is a real freaking threat in low and null sec and the presumption that you are just a victim is just silly. You are indeed a bad ass and can take on a lot of what is out their. Skill points are meaningless.. in Eve its all about attitude and calculated risk. Show some balls and you will find all these pirate corps and pvpers talk a big game but in the end the only advantage they have over you is they took the time to learn whats what out there and thats really not that hard to do. Its all just perceptions. Things are not at all what people in high sec think they are. Best post I've seen on this so far.
Thornat	Posted - 2011.08.16 13:24:00 - [302] Originally by: Timeto Die Take away bubbles from 0.0 and I might attempt to venture there. I never managed to scoot into 0.0 without guaranteed certain insta-pop death even in a shuttle. One problem is that the CSM are obviously going to be well weighted to the hardcore, not the casual. I'm not willing to make Eve into a second job. When I do mine ice on occasion in high sec for a relaxing couple of hours, you know how much I make? Not much. Not much risk, not much reward really. In one line: I want to casually play when I want, how I want. Thanks. Its an unfortunate aspect of Eve but simply put, its not a casual game and as such the casual experiance is not really all that productive. It might be furn for some and thats fine, but its a game that requires a commitment by design if your intent is to acomplish anything in the game being making a few duckets. Is that a good thing? Personally as a very regular player I can say that I wouldn't have it any other way. I want the game to be challenging, demanding and worth logging into everyday and for all that Eve is not, it is definitly that. The whole carebear vs. PvPer argument is a bore, I believe both styles of play, the economic and the territorial, and everything inbetween is both legitimate and welcome to the game. Whats not welcome is the perception that Eve mechanically owes you the security to be a carebear, some guarantee that "players are not allowed to attack me because I don't want to be attacked". Carebears (using the term with no disresepected intended) have to embrace the fact that while you are entitled to try and avoid PvP you are not owed that right. In Eve you have to earn your rights through gameplay, not by trying to get CCp to alter the mechanics in your favor. Eve is first and foremost a PvP game and while a sandbox offering a variety of gameplay it is at its hard a competative game and as much right you have to avoid fights, a PvPer has the right to start one. Thats why we have corporations and its why we have the war dec mechanic. This is why I'm glad their are suicide gankers. Its a constant reminder that Eve is a PvP game and if you choose to play it you will not be able to avoid it. You can evade it, you can hide, you can run and you can take all sorts of measures to get out of being blown up but the mechanics are their to support players killing each other. Its what the game is about, I grant this to carebears. I think their is too much of this uber corp war decing baby corp stuff going on. Its weak status, but in the same token for every pirate corp out their there are anti pirate corps and in the tradition of Eve any problem you have, you can find a solution to it in game and thats where solving your problems belongs. Not here begging the Devs to change the rules, but in game using the rules to ensure you come out on top. Got war deced? Got ganked? Are you ****ed? So do something about it. Find an anti pirate corp. Find an alliance to join. Solve your own problems. Thats all I'm preaching here. But don't come to Eve and hate on it because someone blew up your precious mining ship, because blowing up mining ships is as much part of this game as mining is.
Soi Mala Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen	Posted - 2011.08.16 13:26:00 - [303] Originally by: Timeto Die Take away bubbles from 0.0 and I might attempt to venture there. I never managed to scoot into 0.0 without guaranteed certain insta-pop death even in a shuttle. One problem is that the CSM are obviously going to be well weighted to the hardcore, not the casual. I'm not willing to make Eve into a second job. When I do mine ice on occasion in high sec for a relaxing couple of hours, you know how much I make? Not much. Not much risk, not much reward really. In one line: I want to casually play when I want, how I want. Thanks. I want to casually run 10/10 plexes in highsec. Thanks.
Killer Gandry Caldari Shadow of the Pain	Posted - 2011.08.16 13:44:00 - [304] The whole issue is that CCP dropped a box and said to people," Here is all you need to play, get into the box and do whatever you want." The box contained certain toys and people just went along with the goodies in the box. But CCP never managed to get out of the box themselves and they keep thinking within the dimensions they set back at EVE's conception. Really risky idea's get thrown overboard because it is easier to toggle with the toys already at hand than trying some real new radical stuff. Since alliances were formed in EVE to hold space in null sec they have had a carpal tunnel syndrome vision on how to make it all workable to have alliances fight eahother over holding space. PoS warfare turned out to be boring as hell and people started to complain. It dragged on a long time but then the new mechanic came. Also boring again because the l33t PvPers want fast paced action. Instapopping anything they target is a must to make EVE attractive. PvP doesn't exsist anymore. Player versus player is a joke. It's BvB now, Blow versus Blob Jumpbridge networks make it way too easy for large fleets to get from one side of the universe to the other side. Missions are boring aswel. After a while you can even tell which rat will be where and howmany shots he will do before you pop him. EVE is becomming a perputuum mobile where all actions are predictable and all counterreactions just as predictable. I would prefer to challenge CCP to really inovate the game again. Give the NPC's in missions sleeper AI Introduce something random which can make a market crash somewhere because the markets we have are far too stable. Make mining a real profession. Make it so that roids aren't labeld but that you have to scan roids to see what you can even mine from them. Dare to limit Supercaps and Titans to null sec only. I don't see any reason as why those ships can be jumped to lowsec. This makes smaller corporations use carriers and dreads more in lowsec. There also must be a reason why the empires never ventured into null sec to lay their claims there or as why concord doesn't enforce the law in low sec like in high sec. But nothing. CCP is like the bad quarterback, dropping the ball over and over. Do not fear death so much but rather the inadequate life.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2011.08.16 13:44:00 - [305] Just in case any hi-sec dwellers are reading this thread and thinking they might check out 0.0 after all, the correct ship to do this with is not a shuttle. Shuttles are for hi-sec. Shuttles die in 0.0. The correct cheap T1 "taxi" ship for 0.0 is the Vigil. Fit it with a T2 cloak (and maybe a couple of salvager because hey, you never know!), named MWD, 2 warp core stabilisers, an overdrive injector and 3 small polycarbon engine housing rigs. You have a ship with an incredibly fast time to warp, and that goes as fast as a combat interceptor, and can easily burn back to the gate if you jump into a bubblecamp. (Remember to hold your cloak until the session timer expires). The more you know! Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.08.16 13:46:00 - [306] Please, folks, read the dev blog and post on the relevant threads: Mining Industry Movement and Logistics Exploration PvE NPC Nullsec Small combat Large combat Smallholding Territory and Conquest Intel A place to call home [ Australian players join channel ANZAC ]
Toshiroma McDiesel	Posted - 2011.08.16 13:51:00 - [307] Proof that high sec mining is completely risk free http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=corp&name=Dead+Pod+Syndrome#kills
Major Atrocity	Posted - 2011.08.16 14:00:00 - [308] Originally by: xavier69 Tippia I fly a rattlesnake with Max skills in it and do missions, if ccp dictates to me one more time how i will play there game THEY CAN **** OFF AND I WILL UNSUB AND NEVER LOOK BACK actually its ccp's game not yours. they set the ground rules( mechanics ) if you dont like it... warf + long walk
Ana Vyr Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.16 14:25:00 - [309] Originally by: Rikeka snip 1) If you honestly believe a video of a guy stationary in a belt, mining, will attract subs, you clearly (and thankfully) don't work for CCP. And I'm sure people sub in WOW because they saw a guy collecting herbs in WoW, right? Yeah because waiting two hours to assemble for a lagfest slideshow fleet battle, where some armchair asswipe can dictate your every move is so engaging. I can see how at the top levels, the politics and strategy would be cool, but in my experience as a grunt pilot, what I said above is the gameplay you get in nullsec unless you are out farming for ISK. Shrug. I don't see why anybody thinks this sort of thing is quality gameplay.
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.08.16 14:30:00 - [310] Originally by: Amsterdam Conversations Originally by: Barakkus Originally by: Phelan Votronski Now can people please remember that hisec has pretty much been buffed and buffed again for 5 years straight? Just recently they introduced incursions which (or so they say) allows for a much better income than even lvl4. There are incursions in null and low too if you hadn't noticed, it's not like they're a highsec only activity. In case you didn't notice, in 0.0 everyone can just shoot each other, no 50 random people will join a fleet. Thinking that this might or should happen is not a possibility, it's ******ed. In case you didn't notice, there are incursions in Sov space right now, those alliances could sit there and do those all day without having to get random fleets, of course maybe they'll gank fellow alliance members for lulz while trying to run incursions. - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring

Phelan Votronski	Posted - 2011.08.16 14:33:00 - [311] Edited by: Phelan Votronski on 16/08/2011 14:33:35 Originally by: Sarmatiko Also who is talking about lolbears? My industrial alt have more kills than you (since you have zero) so please stfu and gtfo, nullbear I don't even live in nullsec you illiterate cretin. And no before you try I don't live in lowsec either. Shows you have the attention span of a fly otherwise you'd probably have finished my post and realized how much of a ***** you are.
Spookyjay Caldari Animosity.	Posted - 2011.08.16 14:39:00 - [312] To all the empire lovebears. Feel free to mission in safety or what ever it is you do. Just do not expect to be getting paid lots or flying the same pimp ships as people who risk being blown up do. K thanks.
Hayaishi Gallente Aperture Harmonics	Posted - 2011.08.16 14:41:00 - [313] Originally by: Vice Admiral Spreadsheet Originally by: Miss Rabblt risk vs reward
The Pillar Cornerstone Unlimited	Posted - 2011.08.16 14:45:00 - [314] Wow. Read through every page and the amount of hyperbole and people completely missing the point will never stop amazing me. they need to make eve harder to filter the worst ones out. Lets go through some Proposals and Effects one by one without all the Frigging Hyperbole lvl4 agent removal in HS Effect : The carebears will do lvl3. CCP would probably have to scale up lvl3 missions to make some of them a little harder while retaining the same payment but at the end of things this is all that would happen. Goal is thus succesfull, a real and visible difference is created between NPC 0,0 and HS. As it is payment/Risk wise there really isn't enough difference (CCP agrees) Remove meta items completely from empire Effect : T1 producer might actually become a viable profession as it is Meta is so overwhelmingly cheap T1 modules are only used by people who haven't learned how to browse the market. Or in other words everyone fits as standard fits modules that have Zero production to them. This is completely wrong from CCP's perspective on the game. Effect nr 2 T2 inventing will become more profitable. As it is there are tons of Meta items that completely replace T2 in usage with better fitting stats. Fleeting/Pawnage/rolled tungsten to name a few. If these items are removed from lvl4missions in empire it will go a long way to raising their prices to the point where they become "pimp" and "rare" fits. This hugely benefits T2 producers. Might also go a long way to bring the prices of T2 up which in turn will make fits more expensive and bring more risk to pvp. Follow me so far ??? Effect for people in empire (The ones that refuse to PVP and take part in the multiplayer aspect of the game) What you threw away as crap yesterday will be part of tomorrows pimp fit. Todays pimp fit will be respectively that much more expensive. (This part is conjecture as there are hints towards 0,0 becoming more profitable for all meaning the loot tables might be adjusted to make what is rare items today much more common. Hard to say what they intend here,) However either way, quitting because of a change in what is effectively pimp means the game community is probably better of without you in my opinion. People who play with such shallow goals are part of the 6 month max playerbase that EvE has (Ref old Dev Blog) . Or in other words completely expendable =) There will be new ones tomorrow that will love to grind missions endlessly in empire to afford that L337 half a bil isk rolled tungsten plate that will let them pimp their ship that much more
Generals4 Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.16 14:45:00 - [315] Originally by: Spookyjay To all the empire lovebears. Feel free to mission in safety or what ever it is you do. Just do not expect to be getting paid lots or flying the same pimp ships as people who risk being blown up do. K thanks. They already don't, so what's the issue?
bitters much Nekkid Inc.	Posted - 2011.08.16 14:50:00 - [316] Originally by: Spookyjay To all the empire lovebears. Feel free to mission in safety or what ever it is you do. Just do not expect to be getting paid lots or flying the same pimp ships as people who risk being blown up do. K thanks. but but... their isk/hour ratio
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.08.16 15:44:00 - [317] Originally by: Thornat Originally by: Timeto Die Take away bubbles from 0.0 and I might attempt to venture there. I never managed to scoot into 0.0 without guaranteed certain insta-pop death even in a shuttle. One problem is that the CSM are obviously going to be well weighted to the hardcore, not the casual. I'm not willing to make Eve into a second job. When I do mine ice on occasion in high sec for a relaxing couple of hours, you know how much I make? Not much. Not much risk, not much reward really. In one line: I want to casually play when I want, how I want. Thanks. Its an unfortunate aspect of Eve but simply put, its not a casual game and as such the casual experiance is not really all that productive. It might be furn for some and thats fine, but its a game that requires a commitment by design if your intent is to acomplish anything in the game being making a few duckets. Is that a good thing? Personally as a very regular player I can say that I wouldn't have it any other way. I want the game to be challenging, demanding and worth logging into everyday and for all that Eve is not, it is definitly that... You are wrongly equating a game being "challenging and demanding" with a game "requiring allot of time." Making a huge hook rug is time consuming. But its not really challenging or demanding. Playing in eve sov null sec is time consuming. You need to give up time socializing with real life friends for spaceship friends. (assuming you want to be something other than a peon) It can be just as challenging and demanding to do things in other areas of space without having to spend additional time. It depends what you are doing. See CCP should make all sectors of space in eve have aspects that are demanding and challenging and involve risk. Its just that they only want to work on the part that require huge real life time commitment. This is why eve fails to get the large numbers of subscribers they should. They keep insisting that players spend time socializing with eachother. Plenty of people want to play a game that is challenging. Not so many people want to play a game that will require them to almost completely substitute their real life friends for friends over the net. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.16 16:00:00 - [318] Originally by: Thorn Galen I don't care if this sandbox is just two inches deep and full of pizz (as mentioned in some other post), it's a sandbox and I am paying to play in it the way I want to play it, not the way you want me to play it. It's my time, my money, my entertainment, trying to force me to pvp is like trying to force me to watch a movie I do not like. àand here's the problem: it's a sandbox. Therefore you cannot avoid PvP. That's the whole point of the sandbox. It lets people do what they want with the tools available, including making you go pop, stealing your stuff, forcing you to do things you don't want to do, ripping you off, and generally make your life unpleasant. They will do this because you are doing the same to them, right now, whether you intend to or not. Everything you do in EVE affects everyone else in the game, and you do it in competition with other players. They don't like that, so chances are that they're going to try to beat you somehow. If you cannot find entertainment in this constant PvP that you are already engaged in, then it's very simple: EVE just isn't for you. There's no disdain or criticism in that ù it's like saying that you shouldn't play Civ if you don't like micro management. Originally by: The Pillar Wow. Read through every page and the amount of hyperbole and people completely missing the point will never stop amazing me. they need to make eve harder to filter the worst ones out. Hard to avoid when the OP is entirely based on hyperbole and missing the point. Quote: Lets go through some Proposals and Effects one by one without all the Frigging Hyperbole ~~lvl4 agent removal in HS~~ I thought you said ôwithout the hyperboleö? L4 removal isn't on the table, so there is no proposal or effect to discuss. Quote: ~~Remove meta items completely from empire~~ Not a proposal, no effect to discuss. What they're talking about isn't the Meta 1-4 crap; it's about Meta 6û14. In other words, no deadspace loot or elite-faction spawns in highsec. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.16 16:01:00 - [319] Originally by: Phelan Votronski 10/10 OP Though lolbears are traditionally easy to bait and Greyscale gave you a really nice forward pass. Now can people please remember that hisec has pretty much been buffed and buffed again for 5 years straight? Just recently they introduced incursions which (or so they say) allows for a much better income than even lvl4. Incrusions occur across the three main areas of EVE (High, Low and Null, excluding wormholes) and are reward weighted according to the sec they occur in, so thatÆs not really a high sec buff so much as itÆs a buff to the game in its entirety. IÆm not sure how you see high sec has been receiving buffs over the past 5 years to the exclusion of the rest of the game. Originally by: Phelan Votronski They're not going to nerf hisec. Not even one tiny bit. It's all smoke and mirrors to make nullbears feel special and cover up how very little content the coming 0.0 changes really have. The idea of everyone else getting a huge nerf down the road will string them along for the next two years. Just wait and see. This is an interesting observation and could very well be true. I hope, for CCPÆs sake and those that choose to remain in the game, youÆre correct. -Windjammer
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.16 16:14:00 - [320] Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza Originally by: Hecatonis +1 i work in nul, but live in highsec. why? because the cost of having to deal with the drama and the requirements to just move around takes the fun out of the game. i do not want to have to go through the player created hell of being in a nulsec alliance. all i want is to come on my computer when i get home and play. talk to some corpmates jump through a WH do our thing and leave. thats it. CCP can do what every they like to nul, but sadly for many of us, its the players that ruin the experience. You can still do that while grinding level 3 missions instead of 4s in Empire, problem solved. Given your orientation, the following quote from CCP Greyscale will come as a disappointment. Post 26 on the PvE thread: Originally by: CCP Greyscale (And to everyone else, we already made sure that the best agents weren't in hisec when we introduced level 5s. This is not a "level 3 only in hisec" thing, don't worry. We're fully aware that some people will never move, and we're OK with that.) Looks like Tippia probably had the right of it after all.

Devil's Call Caldari Malicious Destruction War Against the Manifest	Posted - 2011.08.16 16:20:00 - [321] I'm exited, quite frankly I long for the day that the game forces me to venture into 0.0 once again. ----------------------------------------------- ôAll fixed set patterns are incapable of adaptability or pliability. The truth is outside of all fixed patterns.ö
Zyress	Posted - 2011.08.16 16:21:00 - [322] So what you are saying is the rich get richer. Sounds familiar, I guess I'd just hoped in at least a virtual world we could have done it better. I've lived in Nullsec, both NPC and SOV, I've lived in lowsec,and I've lived in Hisec, if you are talking risk versus reward, I have to say the safest place I ever lived was Sov Nullsec. CCP gave us this sandbox to play in anyway we want and now they are penalizing the ppl whose play style isn't as entertaining to them as it is to the players. Fair enough, its their game, they can do what they want, but when I feel discriminated against, it doesn't get the results CCP may want, I'll take my subs and go. So far all I hear is talk but if they limit my gameplay because of my style of play then f@#k um
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.16 16:27:00 - [323] Originally by: Jasdemi Lol, carebears are crying like pathetic girls in puberty. This is a good illustration of the way industrialists are thought of by tweeners who believe pew pew in 0.0 is a male enhancement product. ItÆs also a good illustration of the real reason most industrialists flip their fingers at null sec alliances.
Lord Wiggin Gallente Furian Necromongers	Posted - 2011.08.16 16:38:00 - [324] Wow. It's really amazing how many people think that this planned nerf is about getting people into 0.0. News flash, they have already nerfed 0.0. It's already a ghosttown now, you think a huge influx of people will help? This is about money. As far as CCP is concerned, entirely too many people play the game without paying a dime, which means a smaller number of people are supporting the entire game. If these people get tired of paying big money for a game, CCP will be in trouble. Based on current plex prices, that may already be happening. This space reserved...
Urgg Boolean	Posted - 2011.08.16 17:28:00 - [325] Originally by: Dusty Warrior Edited by: Dusty Warrior on 15/08/2011 21:56:48 Tickles the ** of me when you null sec carebears say "Risk-V-Reward" while sitting in your little comfy corner of space with all your cannon fodders gate camping and blobbing. Not sure who told you that 100 to 1 is PVP but guess it's someone with the mentality of Mittens.** <snip> I would agree that blob warfare does not fit my definition of PvP. Try ratting/missioning in an empty system in Low sec. The next day or sooner, true PvPers have read the system stats, see all the NPC kills, and come gunning for the PvE'er(s). When my main's wimpy little corp gets WarDecced by bullies in Hi sec, we just go hang out in Low sec, and the bullies never follow. I assume this is because they are not willing to take the risks of getting caught by the 1V1'ers and/or roamers. But they are certainly willing to blob us in Hi sec. Pansies. The part I like the least about all proposals in the dev blog is that it is making this game into a job. Many think it already is. I already have a job, and school too. Don't need an in-game phantasy career. Where is the fun in all these new plans ? Remember fun? Isn't that supposed to be the point of a game?
Romar Family	Posted - 2011.08.16 17:46:00 - [326] Originally by: Spookyjay To all the empire lovebears. Feel free to mission in safety or what ever it is you do. Just do not expect to be getting paid lots or flying the same pimp ships as people who risk being blown up do. K thanks. Somehow I'd expect you to wear a monocle... It was new to me people used the highest-priced fittings in PVP, but I may be mistaken.
Eight Sinn	Posted - 2011.08.16 17:54:00 - [327] I think it's logical that missions in low/null sec should pay out greater rewards than in high sec (If the payout of a L4 in highsec is at a factor of x1.0, why not make low sec a factor of x1.4 and nullsec x1.8). I don't think good drops should be removed from high sec, instead an adjustment to drop rate could be made. I'd like to live in low or null sec but my lack of PvP experience, corp membership and limited playtime really makes that hard. Unlike PVE there is no ramped way for me to learn how to PVP. Maybe there shouldn't be. Or maybe they should add a mechanic that helps new players get better at PVP. Maybe something like: Deaths: 1-10 > Randomly Lose one module. 10-20 > Randomly Lose 4 modules. 20+ > Lose whole ship. Just an idea.
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2011.08.16 17:58:00 - [328] Originally by: Chrono Seeker Edited by: Chrono Seeker on 15/08/2011 13:43:44 Edited by: Chrono Seeker on 15/08/2011 13:33:49 Some activities that will no longer be available in High sec according to the dev blog: Quote: Sole source of ice and high-end minerals No more Ice in high sec. Quote: Geared towards T2 Our current proposal is that hisec is for volume T1 goods, lowsec will be for meta/faction gear eventually, nullsec is for T2, and wormholes are for T3 Oops, sorry, but we don't want people in high sec doing anything but T1 industry. And no more Meta drops in missions! Quote: Best loot The best loot in the game should come from nullsec. High-end loot's enforced rarity gives a strong "jackpot" moment and tends towards extremely high values, and nullsec should be where you go to get high-value payouts. That Pithum C-type Medium shield booster won't be found in high sec sites anymore. Or any good loot for that matter. Quote: Best agents For further discussion. The best agents in the game should all be in nullsec, in keeping with the "richest area in the game" theme. There should be a clear margin of value for nullsec agents that acts as an enticement for mission runners to move there. No more lvl 4s in high sec it appears. Oops. Sorry mission runners. So it appears that CCP is taking the most lucrative areas of the game and putting them only in null sec. But they deserve it right? No one but huge alliances should be making any sort of good ISK in this game right? Personally I'm going to start buying ICE and resell it all later. Sounds good to me.
i am jita	Posted - 2011.08.16 18:36:00 - [329] Originally by: Delianora I might actually start logging in if they fix the rampant printing of riskless isk in the game. Because the size of other people's wallets in high sec ruins your gaming experience? Do us all a favour and don't start logging in.
Amber Villaneous	Posted - 2011.08.16 19:59:00 - [330] Originally by: Lord Wiggin Wow. It's really amazing how many people think that this planned nerf is about getting people into 0.0. News flash, they have already nerfed 0.0. It's already a ghosttown now, you think a huge influx of people will help? This is about money. As far as CCP is concerned, entirely too many people play the game without paying a dime, which means a smaller number of people are supporting the entire game. If these people get tired of paying big money for a game, CCP will be in trouble. Based on current plex prices, that may already be happening. You don't appear to know how PLEX work so please refrain from commenting on them until you do.

Andrea Griffin	Posted - 2011.08.16 20:12:00 - [331] I'm perfectly happy with named items no longer dropping in high sec. That will make named items a luxury again instead of the defacto standard. When was the last time anyone bought a meta-0 pulse laser? Why bother when the meta-1 and meta-2 lasers are much less expensive and more effective? Just a single example - nearly every item in the game is like that. When meta-0 stuff becomes normal again there will be a use for all of those BPOs out there. Consider it a boost to production and therefore mining as well. Then, there will be a reason to go missioning and ratting in lowsec. The mission rewards are better, and you get better loot as well. Loot that will actually have some value. More people in lowsec, more targets for the pirates. Good stuff across the board, there. - "When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed." - CCP Big Dumb Object
Zyress	Posted - 2011.08.16 20:13:00 - [332] Originally by: Amber Villaneous Originally by: Lord Wiggin Wow. It's really amazing how many people think that this planned nerf is about getting people into 0.0. News flash, they have already nerfed 0.0. It's already a ghosttown now, you think a huge influx of people will help? This is about money. As far as CCP is concerned, entirely too many people play the game without paying a dime, which means a smaller number of people are supporting the entire game. If these people get tired of paying big money for a game, CCP will be in trouble. Based on current plex prices, that may already be happening. You don't appear to know how PLEX work so please refrain from commenting on them until you do. I could pay for my subscriptions by buying plex for isk if I wanted, I'd never get enough money to buy the Cap ship skill books I want and certainly not to buy a cap ship, but I could play essentially for no cost to me. I won't because despite the huge sums I make from doing lvl 4's a couple nights a week (read sarcasm)it doesn't support both my subscriptions and my game play. I could care less about plex, they could take it entirely out of the game and I'd consider it an improvement. Its just another word for RMT to me. Nerf my isk earning capability and my 2 nights missioning a week may no longer be sufficient for even my game play. Make me choose between real life and eve and eve will loose.
saltrock0000	Posted - 2011.08.16 20:19:00 - [333] The only reason ccp are doing this is less ISK in game means more cash for them, more people unable to afford PLEX and in return driving the prices up and up. All ill say is thank god for WOT. I certainly will never be paying ccp any more money EVER
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.16 20:23:00 - [334] Originally by: saltrock0000 The only reason ccp are doing this is less ISK in game means more cash for them, more people unable to afford PLEX and in return driving the prices up and up. Eh, no. Less ISK in game means prices on everything go down, including the price of PLEX, and in the end, a PLEX buys you just as much as it does now, so people will buy them at the same volumes to feed their lifestyles.
Lord Wiggin Gallente Furian Necromongers	Posted - 2011.08.16 20:24:00 - [335] Originally by: Amber Villaneous Originally by: Lord Wiggin Wow. It's really amazing how many people think that this planned nerf is about getting people into 0.0. News flash, they have already nerfed 0.0. It's already a ghosttown now, you think a huge influx of people will help? This is about money. As far as CCP is concerned, entirely too many people play the game without paying a dime, which means a smaller number of people are supporting the entire game. If these people get tired of paying big money for a game, CCP will be in trouble. Based on current plex prices, that may already be happening. You don't appear to know how PLEX work so please refrain from commenting on them until you do. Let me know after you take a class in supply and demand will you.... Generally, low supply or high demand drives prices higher. Perhaps you went to a different school? Or you didn't realize that Plex price is based on GTC prices, which seem to be pushing higher...
Judge Ment BOOM BOOM POW	Posted - 2011.08.16 20:28:00 - [336] More toilet paper for the bathroom
centurion zulu Phantom Squad Atlas.	Posted - 2011.08.16 20:35:00 - [337] AMAZING............ Nubbins, all of ya's. This is nothing but a Troll Post. Interesting on how much attention this got, even if it is trash talk.
Amber Villaneous	Posted - 2011.08.16 20:55:00 - [338] Originally by: Lord Wiggin Originally by: Amber Villaneous Originally by: Lord Wiggin Wow. It's really amazing how many people think that this planned nerf is about getting people into 0.0. News flash, they have already nerfed 0.0. It's already a ghosttown now, you think a huge influx of people will help? This is about money. As far as CCP is concerned, entirely too many people play the game without paying a dime, which means a smaller number of people are supporting the entire game. If these people get tired of paying big money for a game, CCP will be in trouble. Based on current plex prices, that may already be happening. You don't appear to know how PLEX work so please refrain from commenting on them until you do. Let me know after you take a class in supply and demand will you.... Generally, low supply or high demand drives prices higher. Perhaps you went to a different school? Or you didn't realize that Plex price is based on GTC prices, which seem to be pushing higher... I bolded the pertinent part for you. I understand supply and demand quite well. What you don't understand is that no one plays for "free". Whether it's subs, GTCs or PLEX every account is paid for in real money by someone. CCP doesn't care who is paying as long as it's paid. Any more witty remarks about my education or lack thereof? I find it amusing that you attempt to bring insults into the discussion when the attempted insult has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. I will admit that I am not an English major so please check for spelling and grammar mistakes if that will make you feel good about yourself.
Kogh Ayon	Posted - 2011.08.16 21:15:00 - [339] Originally by: Zyress Nerf my isk earning capability and my 2 nights missioning a week may no longer be sufficient for even my game play. Make me choose between real life and eve and eve will loose. Many people can pick up one, good reality or good gamer, but obviously you lost in both. Originally by: saltrock0000 Edited by: saltrock0000 on 16/08/2011 20:20:45 The only reason ccp are doing this is less ISK in game means more cash for them, more people unable to afford PLEX and in return driving the prices up and up. If you still trying to figure out "the only reason" for everything obviously complicated, you are still a kids. Originally by: Lord Wiggin This is about money. As far as CCP is concerned, entirely too many people play the game without paying a dime, which means a smaller number of people are supporting the entire game. Look at the PLEX price/PLEX market it is obviously not the case Most people do not use PLEX
Exxter Evox Gallente Tri-Star Enterprise	Posted - 2011.08.16 21:30:00 - [340] Edited by: Exxter Evox on 16/08/2011 21:33:09 Actually I dont see the incredible amount of players moving 0.0 just through these changes, though many believe it. Since i dont have the time working around in 0.0 atm i stay in high sec and will stay until either these changes hit or i got more time to spend it in 0.0. But despite my personal real life circumstances I see why people want these changes and why not but it wont work out as written in theory on the white board. Fact is that, if i would be a pirat, and if these changes hit i would gank alot more, successfully alot more than now. Alot of players quit eve simply because my daily gate camp or belt camp will work far better than before, but that only for 1 or 2 months until all of the 1.0 players stopped playing because my gank gang killed them (destroyed them utterly) 1-10 times which wont return out of "isk versus reward". ****ed ideas stay ****ed. If ccp wants more players traveling around 0.0 they need to get rid of the possibility of gate camps or need to create Trading Guilds which enable "freighters and haulers to travel secured through 0.X and 0.0 without getting killed". Since alot of people will cry now because its against sand box pvp; i will answer "If gate camping is your pvp then you should quit this game and start playing ego shooters at least once to learn what "pvp" means". My 2 cents worth nothing... PS: The outstanding biggest issue of all these changes are gate camps and belt hotdrops... you are not capable of securing low sec enough with 1 player to make up an isk vs reward balance if a hulk is worht 100 mil isk +. And to all the "group up" cryers now, "you cant group if you got a busy real life". If you think so tthen you stand at the position of rich gets richer and poor even poorer. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "What do we say to brother Death today?" "Not today my friend."

Kevric Talocan Scrap Metal and Recycling Talocan United	Posted - 2011.08.16 21:36:00 - [341] Originally by: General Altathamus bunch of stupid bears crying about something else now? typical.. This is a good step in the right direction. Too many missioning high sec bears with billions in their wallets in their rare faction pimp missioning ships. The amount of isk people recieve in highsec is just dumb.. And they Never lose anything compared to people that have been living in WH, 0.0 Low the whole time. More 0.0 tears please.
Azure Moonlight Atomic Core Industries and Science	Posted - 2011.08.16 21:39:00 - [342] When there are no more L4 agents in hisec I will simply quit the game. **** this stupid "You have to go to nullsec and get involved in PvP if you want to have any future in this game!"
Ranka Mei Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.16 21:39:00 - [343] The whole 'risk vs. reward' philosophy is beginning to take on ludicrous proportions. Like a guy said in the other thread, Who actually puts up a weapons factory in Lybia? You don't! You set one up in Italy, and then ship to Lybia! Point being that CCP's thinking is rather flawed in this regard, as their fallacy is the notion that you need to be in the actual danger zone for profit. It's like saying major trade hubs and industry, and shopping malls, and everything that's good and decent, should be located right smack in the middle of a war zone. Which is lunacy, of course -- but it's the inevitable result of repeating the 'risk vs. reward' mantra way too often (and with way too few people calling CCP on it). Also, moving the good ice exclusively to lowsec is another failtastically bad idea. The big super Alliances will only get bigger and richer even faster, and it won't do sh*t for the little guy. -- "All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP
Hicksimus Gallente Plan-It Xpress	Posted - 2011.08.16 21:46:00 - [344] Originally by: Ranka Mei The whole 'risk vs. reward' philosophy is beginning to take on ludicrous proportions. Like a guy said in the other thread, Who actually puts up a weapons factory in Lybia? You don't! You set one up in Italy, and then ship to Lybia! Point being that CCP's thinking is rather flawed in this regard, as their fallacy is the notion that you need to be in the actual danger zone for profit. It's like saying major trade hubs and industry, and shopping malls, and everything that's good and decent, should be located right smack in the middle of a war zone. Which is lunacy, of course -- but it's the inevitable result of repeating the 'risk vs. reward' mantra way too often (and with way too few people calling CCP on it). Also, moving the good ice exclusively to lowsec is another failtastically bad idea. The big super Alliances will only get bigger and richer even faster, and it won't do sht for the little guy. Why would they do *** for the little guy when the little guy only wants to experience 10% of the game. Yes manufacturing should primarily be highsec but the materials should come from low and even more so nullsec. Just like the places oil comes from.
Leisen Caldari Interrobang Inc.	Posted - 2011.08.16 22:00:00 - [345] I live in hi-sec because I simply don't have the time to play EVE to the extent where I can manage living in null. If I play EVE for an hour (maybe two) a day, I don't want to get online, and whoops can't do anything, CTA, again. I'm sure there are many others in the exact same position, who just don't have the time to commit to a nullsec alliance, and it's these people who are going to get ****ed by this.
Ranka Mei Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.16 22:10:00 - [346] Originally by: Hicksimus Why would they do **** for the little guy when the little guy only wants to experience 10% of the game. I think you got this figured backwards. It's more like only 10% lives in lowesc/nullsec, and CCP wants to nerf the other 90%, just so they can force the other 90% to play the 10% experience of the game. -- "All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP
Hicksimus Gallente Plan-It Xpress	Posted - 2011.08.16 22:43:00 - [347] Originally by: Ranka Mei Originally by: Hicksimus Why would they do **** for the little guy when the little guy only wants to experience 10% of the game. I think you got this figured backwards. It's more like only 10% lives in lowesc/nullsec, and CCP wants to nerf the other 90%, just so they can force the other 90% to play the 10% experience of the game. I think you interpreted my figure in a way that allows you to make a stupid argument. I'll assume you are American or English is your second language.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.16 23:39:00 - [348] Originally by: Hicksimus Originally by: Ranka Mei The whole 'risk vs. reward' philosophy is beginning to take on ludicrous proportions. Like a guy said in the other thread, Who actually puts up a weapons factory in Lybia? You don't! You set one up in Italy, and then ship to Lybia! Point being that CCP's thinking is rather flawed in this regard, as their fallacy is the notion that you need to be in the actual danger zone for profit. It's like saying major trade hubs and industry, and shopping malls, and everything that's good and decent, should be located right smack in the middle of a war zone. Which is lunacy, of course -- but it's the inevitable result of repeating the 'risk vs. reward' mantra way too often (and with way too few people calling CCP on it). Also, moving the good ice exclusively to lowsec is another failtastically bad idea. The big super Alliances will only get bigger and richer even faster, and it won't do sht for the little guy. Why would they do *** for the little guy when the little guy only wants to experience 10% of the game. Yes manufacturing should primarily be highsec but the materials should come from low and even more so nullsec. Just like the places oil comes from. Texas? You know, the USA is still the third largest oil producer in the world.
Pr1ncess Alia	Posted - 2011.08.16 23:42:00 - [349] Originally by: Ranka Mei Originally by: Hicksimus Why would they do **** for the little guy when the little guy only wants to experience 10% of the game. I think you got this figured backwards. It's more like only 10% lives in lowesc/nullsec, and CCP wants to nerf the other 90%, just so they can force the other 90% to play the 10% experience of the game. this is why you shouldn't all rant and rave for 10+ pages at an OP that obviously just trolled you i'm the first to yell at ccp, but your all yelling at whispers in the breeze. ccp isn't going to shoot themselves in the foot and 'destroy' gameplay for the VAST majority of their customers. please keep posting "bahhh. bahhhh. bahhh." it's like someone crossbred sheep with lemmings. --- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved
Frater Scrapheap	Posted - 2011.08.17 00:09:00 - [350] The majority of the playerbase is living in high sec and there is a reason for this one. I think that the playerbase of MMOs changed over the time - a lot of MMO players cant and wont play 7/24 anymore. The risk vs. balance is not ISK, but invested lifetime - for those people, a higher payout isnt worth to loose ships and equipment on a regular basis. Prediction: Bad agents and lower rewards in high sec wont make people move, they will leave the game

Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.17 00:25:00 - [351] Originally by: Azure Moonlight When there are no more L4 agents in hisec I will simply quit the game. ** this stupid "You have to go to nullsec and get involved in PvP if you want to have any future in this game!" I understand your sentiment, but the following should allay your fears on this. From post 26 of the PvE thread: Originally by:** CCP Greyscale (And to everyone else, we already made sure that the best agents weren't in hisec when we introduced level 5s. This is not a "level 3 only in hisec" thing, don't worry. We're fully aware that some people will never move, and we're OK with that.)
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.17 00:31:00 - [352] Originally by: Hicksimus Originally by: Ranka Mei The whole 'risk vs. reward' philosophy is beginning to take on ludicrous proportions. Like a guy said in the other thread, Who actually puts up a weapons factory in Lybia? You don't! You set one up in Italy, and then ship to Lybia! Point being that CCP's thinking is rather flawed in this regard, as their fallacy is the notion that you need to be in the actual danger zone for profit. It's like saying major trade hubs and industry, and shopping malls, and everything that's good and decent, should be located right smack in the middle of a war zone. Which is lunacy, of course -- but it's the inevitable result of repeating the 'risk vs. reward' mantra way too often (and with way too few people calling CCP on it). Also, moving the good ice exclusively to lowsec is another failtastically bad idea. The big super Alliances will only get bigger and richer even faster, and it won't do sht for the little guy. Why would they do *** for the little guy when the little guy only wants to experience 10% of the game. Yes manufacturing should primarily be highsec but the materials should come from low and even more so nullsec. Just like the places oil comes from. You mean like itÆs being done right now? Megacyte, Zydrine and Morphite all come from null sec as does all the moon goo. Was there something else you wanted in addition to the high end stuff?
Nicolo da'Vicenza Amarr Divine Power. Atlas.	Posted - 2011.08.17 00:48:00 - [353] Originally by: Lonox Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza Originally by: Mistah Ewedynao Cause nobody mines trit in null sec. They can't be bothered, too busy hunting BILLION isk officer mods. Why would anyone mine trit in a belt where anyone can kill you at a moment's notice when they're competing against people who can mine trit 23/7 because they don't have to worry about being attacked? When additionally, those competitors' product are merely a couple of jump freighter trips away. Oh boo hoo! You guys have it so tough out there, what with being able to run multiple jump freighters back and forth filled with high-ends to buy our ill-gotten lowly trit. You poor little things. There's a reason your morons are bored. You can throw down and lose hundreds of billions worth of supercaps and titans without breaking a sweat. Maybe if anything you people did out there actually mattered anymore, you wouldn't have all this time to obsess over what everyone else was doing. Seriously, it's unhealthy. You people think you're actually helping your case when you brag about how much you blew up today but you're only making our case for us. Maybe when the loud minority failquit whiners realise that you don't matter anymore and that none of this is actually going to happen, you'll finally actually quit. Your time is up, carebears rule eve now and we demand ponies and handholding! Your fail troll threads and posts were funny at first but now it's just pathetic to watch. "Hey guys! Look at us! Look what we're doing out here!" "Uh guys?! Come on guys! Look! Please? Please look at us." What eve needs is more boots, more pants and gold ammo. Ok, in this next scene, you realise I'm right and you are mad. Action! In your kneejerk, butthurt rant I noticed that you didn't answer my question; why would anyone in their right mind mine trit in 0.0 when they are competing against guys who can mine trit 23/7 with zero risk?
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.17 00:57:00 - [354] Originally by: Windjammer Megacyte, Zydrine and Morphite all come from null sec as does all the moon goo. Weeeellà granted, things have changed a bit since the reprocessing changes last year, but Megacyte and Zydrine had significant highsec sources ù Megacyte was particularly noteworthy, with some 40% of it coming from loot. It shouldn't be quite as high now, but it'll still be large enough that I'd call it somewhat erroneous to say that all the highends are nullsec-only. If nothing else simply due to the sheer amount of loot being created on a daily basis in all those highsec missions. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Kengutsi Akira	Posted - 2011.08.17 00:57:00 - [355] Im increasingly of the opinion theyre trying to see just how much crap their player base are willing to put up with before they entirely quit, so they know where the line is ------------------------------------ "You know, my foot oughta vandilize your ass"
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.17 01:13:00 - [356] Edited by: Windjammer on 17/08/2011 01:14:52 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Windjammer Megacyte, Zydrine and Morphite all come from null sec as does all the moon goo. Weeeellà granted, things have changed a bit since the reprocessing changes last year, but Megacyte and Zydrine had significant highsec sources ù Megacyte was particularly noteworthy, with some 40% of it coming from loot. It shouldn't be quite as high now, but it'll still be large enough that I'd call it somewhat erroneous to say that all the highends are nullsec-only. If nothing else simply due to the sheer amount of loot being created on a daily basis in all those highsec missions. Windjammer sighs Yes, Tippia, technically you are correct. Some small amount of the high end minerals come from recycled loot. I was, of course, focused on meaningful quantities such as are needed for T2 manufacturing by an industrialist who does it on a regular basis. However, if you want to be a freakin space lawyer about it, youÆre right.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.17 01:18:00 - [357] Originally by: Windjammer Yes, Tippia, technically you are correct. Some small amount of the high end minerals come from recycled loot. But that's just it: it's not ôsome small amountö ù again, nearly 40% of the Megacyte used to come from loot. If I remember the recycling fix numbers somewhat correctly, that'll be down to maybe 25% ù that most definitely qualifies as a meaningful quantity. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.17 01:35:00 - [358] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Windjammer Yes, Tippia, technically you are correct. Some small amount of the high end minerals come from recycled loot. But that's just it: it's not ôsome small amountö ù again, nearly 40% of the Megacyte used to come from loot. If I remember the recycling fix numbers somewhat correctly, that'll be down to maybe 25% ù that most definitely qualifies as a meaningful quantity. YouÆre telling me that 25% of all the Megacyte used in the game comes from recycled high sec mission loot? No offense, but IÆd appreciate a link to that info and if true it makes the whole ABC ore in WH debate silly by comparison.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.17 01:39:00 - [359] Originally by: Windjammer YouÆre telling me that 25% of all the Megacyte used in the game comes from recycled high sec mission loot? No offense, but IÆd appreciate a link to that info and if true it makes the whole ABC ore in WH debate silly by comparison. Like I said, the 25% is more a number I seem to recall from looking at the reprocessing revamp, but I can't find the thread where it was discussed. It was something along the lines of ôjust over half of what it was beforeö, and since it was 40% before that, just over half should land somewhere in the 25% region. And yes, the WH ore debate is silly for a number of reasons. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.17 02:03:00 - [360] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Windjammer YouÆre telling me that 25% of all the Megacyte used in the game comes from recycled high sec mission loot? No offense, but IÆd appreciate a link to that info and if true it makes the whole ABC ore in WH debate silly by comparison. Like I said, the 25% is more a number I seem to recall from looking at the reprocessing revamp, but I can't find the thread where it was discussed. It was something along the lines of ôjust over half of what it was beforeö, and since it was 40% before that, just over half should land somewhere in the 25% region. And yes, the WH ore debate is silly for a number of reasons. I used to do a lot of L4 missions. Several hours a day. I sold some of my loot from those and reprocessed the rest. The high end minerals that I got from reprocessing of a couple weeks of missioning was barely enough for a T2 cruiser. So your allegation comes to me as a surprise, especially since this was before the mission loot nerf. The quantities of high end materials I use these days couldnÆt possibly be met by a small to medium corp of mission runners recycling their L4 mission loot and IÆm far from being a major player in the T2 manufacturing game. Based upon that anecdotal, though personal, evidence, youÆll understand that 25% seems high to me. Regards, Windjammer

Ladie Scarlet GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.08.17 02:12:00 - [361] Originally by: Windjammer I used to do a lot of L4 missions. Several hours a day. Well now I see why you're such an expert on all things relating to nullsec.
Judge Ment BOOM BOOM POW	Posted - 2011.08.17 02:27:00 - [362] I'm going to call this Rubbish! EVE Online has many clients. We have our PVP side who want to roam many hrs in space, flying many dull mission each nite. Roughly 3hrs spent roaming empty 0.0 space, making between 30 to 60 jumps a night just to kill a shuttle or maybe a hauler full of space junk or maybe even get lucky to find another group doing the same thing (which this is called pvp) Now we have out NON pvpers, Non believer who do not care about PVP and these folks believe that they live in world called EMPIRE. They been mission running, industrial mining even POS manufacture (researching) for many years. This is normal for EVE Online because your dealing with people who just came out of work and looking to relax! And we have our whiner who come and whine on EVE ONLINE forums, who complain each day about ISK, Over power ships and of course to complain in anything in general. (this is Trolling) or be trolled by them by joining in their dumb discussions. TROLL ------------------------------------- We judge others by actions We judge ourselves by intentions.
Rhinanna Minmatar Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.08.17 02:50:00 - [363] Quote: Quote: Geared towards T2 Our current proposal is that hisec is for volume T1 goods, lowsec will be for meta/faction gear eventually, nullsec is for T2, and wormholes are for T3 Oops, sorry, but we don't want people in high sec doing anything but T1 industry. And no more Meta drops in missions! How are meta drops part of industry? All this means is that the stuff to make T2 will be more found in null and the stuff to make metas will be found in low, not that its the only place you can build it. CCP haven't suggest removing meta-drops at all. Quote: Quote: Best loot The best loot in the game should come from nullsec. High-end loot's enforced rarity gives a strong "jackpot" moment and tends towards extremely high values, and nullsec should be where you go to get high-value payouts. That Pithum C-type Medium shield booster won't be found in high sec sites anymore. Or any good loot for that matter. Pithum C-type shield booster isn't anywhere near the best loot. Unless you have specific here you are talking out your arse again. Quote: Quote: Best agents For further discussion. The best agents in the game should all be in nullsec, in keeping with the "richest area in the game" theme. There should be a clear margin of value for nullsec agents that acts as an enticement for mission runners to move there. No more lvl 4s in high sec it appears. Oops. Sorry mission runners. Errr, Level 5s? Heard of them? Null-sec pirate agents as well. Pure scaremongering. The only thing you got right was ice and that needs a change as its a way too infinate source at the moment. -The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it. Drenzul (My normal internet tag)
Lithalnas Amarr Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2011.08.17 02:52:00 - [364] I dont mind the changes to highsec, the people who are here are not here for the money, they are here for the safety. I should know, I am a PRVTR and I spend all my time in highsec. ------------- Mictro-Transactions can bite my shinny metal exhaust port.
Judge Ment BOOM BOOM POW	Posted - 2011.08.17 02:58:00 - [365] Originally by: Lithalnas I dont mind the changes to highsec, the people who are here are not here for the money, they are here for the safety. I should know, I am a PRVTR and I spend all my time in highsec. exactly ------------------------------------- We judge others by actions We judge ourselves by intentions.
Alxea	Posted - 2011.08.17 03:39:00 - [366] Clearly if you don't like pvp, then your in the wrong game. I think you got this game somehow confused with WoW. Its waiting for you!
Judge Ment BOOM BOOM POW	Posted - 2011.08.17 04:17:00 - [367] Originally by: Alxea Clearly if you don't like pvp, then your in the wrong game. I think you got this game somehow confused with WoW. Its waiting for you! RIFT? ------------------------------------- We judge others by actions We judge ourselves by intentions.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.08.17 04:58:00 - [368] Originally by: Windjammer I used to do a lot of L4 missions. Several hours a day. I sold some of my loot from those and reprocessed the rest. The high end minerals that I got from reprocessing of a couple weeks of missioning was barely enough for a T2 cruiser. I'm still making enough Nocxium from the occasional mission that I loot & salvage to keep me well supplied with Scourge Heavy Missiles. The fact that this is at all possible annoys me, much less the fact that I'm only looting a couple of missions a week! [ Australian players join channel ANZAC ]
Herping yourDerp	Posted - 2011.08.17 05:23:00 - [369] Originally by: Mara Rinn Originally by: Windjammer I used to do a lot of L4 missions. Several hours a day. I sold some of my loot from those and reprocessed the rest. The high end minerals that I got from reprocessing of a couple weeks of missioning was barely enough for a T2 cruiser. I'm still making enough Nocxium from the occasional mission that I loot & salvage to keep me well supplied with Scourge Heavy Missiles. The fact that this is at all possible annoys me, much less the fact that I'm only looting a couple of missions a week! maybe because 100 missiles is only 2 noxcium? so basically 1 drone missions gives enough noxcium for enough scourge missiles to last a month or 2.
Asuri Kinnes Caldari Adhocracy Incorporated	Posted - 2011.08.17 05:26:00 - [370] Originally by: Jasdemi Lol, carebears are crying like pathetic girls in puberty. Got about 100 pages to go to equal the Null Bears whines... THOSE were some butt-hurt carebears! Originally by: Lord Wiggin Wow. It's really amazing how many people think that this planned nerf is about getting people into 0.0. News flash, they have already nerfed 0.0. It's already a ghosttown now, you think a huge influx of people will help? This is about money. As far as CCP is concerned, entirely too many people play the game without paying a dime, which means a smaller number of people are supporting the entire game. If these people get tired of paying big money for a game, CCP will be in trouble. Based on current plex prices, that may already be happening. Is it a requirement to be a complete and utter moron to be a Necromonger? For any plex to come in the game, they have to be paid for. Once they are paid for, they = 30 days game time. Nobody "plays for free". Your entire post was based on a mistaken fallacy. idiot, just like the OP. Wormholes: The NEW end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs. NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA!

Alexzia Sevic	Posted - 2011.08.17 05:43:00 - [371] Edited by: Alexzia Sevic on 17/08/2011 05:43:25 All I can say is CCP go ahead with your grand plan. Some carebears may cry and quit, but their number will pale in comparison to those new subscriptions man enough to take a few risks.
Azure Moonlight Atomic Core Industries and Science	Posted - 2011.08.17 05:56:00 - [372] Originally by: Alexzia Sevic Edited by: Alexzia Sevic on 17/08/2011 05:43:25 All I can say is CCP go ahead with your grand plan. Some carebears may cry and quit, but their number will pale in comparison to those new subscriptions man enough to take a few risks. Yeah because all the world is waiting for some hardcore nullsec PvP action. The only thing holding them back are a few thousand people playing along in highsec, who just dont give a ** about being forced to be in a PvP environment all the time. My presumption; after **ing so many people off with cpu killing Incarna and MT there is not much room for CCP to loose any more customers. And what they are doing now will certainly not get them any new ones. Bring new content, CCP, dont destroy the old one!
Bruce Kemp Minmatar Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.08.17 05:58:00 - [373] These changes would make EVE great once again, who cares is we lose 50% of the carebears, Eve would be great once again. Originally by: Lady Spank Minmatar born, Minmatar bred, Strong in the arm, Thick in the head.
Kurokawa Ryujin	Posted - 2011.08.17 06:09:00 - [374] Dear CCP, Here is my 2cent. I've played enough other MMOs to know this. Please be aware that, you change the gameplay at your own risk. No matter how you put it, carebears forms majority population in eve universe. Carebear IS THE BACKBONE of Eve. If any of these changes (as listed by Op) is to be implemented. I will be the among the first to be quiting this game. And I won't be the last. For those pvper, I had enough of your rhetoric bravado's, don't think you don't need us. If you alienate us, there will come a time where there is no longer anybody to play pewpew with you. There will no longer be cheap ship or ammo for you. If worse come to worse, you might even end up flying through empty highsec system like what you are experiencing right now in null-sec. Let's see how you like playing in your little sandbox all by yourselves.
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.17 06:17:00 - [375] Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Originally by: Windjammer I used to do a lot of L4 missions. Several hours a day. Well now I see why you're such an expert on all things relating to nullsec. Yes. Because I once did something that has nothing to do with null sec, it means I know nothing about null sec. Brilliant deduction. YouÆre staying true to your form. Honestly, how do you manage to speak around your foot?
Erichk Knaar Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2011.08.17 06:21:00 - [376] Originally by: Asuri Kinnes Originally by: Lord Wiggin Wow. It's really amazing how many people think that this planned nerf is about getting people into 0.0. News flash, they have already nerfed 0.0. It's already a ghosttown now, you think a huge influx of people will help? This is about money. As far as CCP is concerned, entirely too many people play the game without paying a dime, which means a smaller number of people are supporting the entire game. If these people get tired of paying big money for a game, CCP will be in trouble. Based on current plex prices, that may already be happening. Is it a requirement to be a complete and utter moron to be a Necromonger? For any plex to come in the game, they have to be paid for. Once they are paid for, they = 30 days game time. Nobody "plays for free". Your entire post was based on a mistaken fallacy. idiot, just like the OP. No, he has a point. I get your point. A lot of people don't understand the PLEX economy and think "lolol, I playz for free", but there is a point to be made in concentrating the risk on a smaller population who actually pay real money for the game. One guy/gal who pays for an account and maybe, say 4 PLEX a month quits and the people who were buying those PLEX can't afford to IRL?
Nicolo da'Vicenza Amarr Divine Power. Atlas.	Posted - 2011.08.17 06:24:00 - [377] Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 17/08/2011 06:24:00 Originally by: Kurokawa Ryujin . There will no longer be cheap ship or ammo for you. If worse come to worse, you might even end up flying through empty highsec system like what you are experiencing right now in null-sec. Let's see how you like playing in your little sandbox all by yourselves. What would we do without the rich content provided by highsec npc corp players?
Windjammer Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.17 06:32:00 - [378] Edited by: Windjammer on 17/08/2011 06:38:29 Originally by: Mara Rinn Originally by: Windjammer I used to do a lot of L4 missions. Several hours a day. I sold some of my loot from those and reprocessed the rest. The high end minerals that I got from reprocessing of a couple weeks of missioning was barely enough for a T2 cruiser. I'm still making enough Nocxium from the occasional mission that I loot & salvage to keep me well supplied with Scourge Heavy Missiles. The fact that this is at all possible annoys me, much less the fact that I'm only looting a couple of missions a week! Hey, hereÆs a fun fact. Nocxium is not a high end mineral. ItÆs found in high sec. Check out an ore called Pyroxeres. You might also be interested to know that Tritanium, Pyerite, Mexallon and Isogen are found in high sec and they too are not considered high end minerals. I thought you might like to know. Also, the volume of minerals required for a cruiser are just a tiny bit more than the amount required for missilesààààà..and, oh yeah, Scourge Heavy Missiles arenÆt T2. Good post, though. I mean aside from a few silly facts, you nailed it.
Durty Nell Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.08.17 06:55:00 - [379] Edited by: Durty Nell on 17/08/2011 06:56:09 Edited by: Durty Nell on 17/08/2011 06:55:17 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: saltrock0000 The only reason ccp are doing this is less ISK in game means more cash for them, more people unable to afford PLEX and in return driving the prices up and up. Eh, no. Less ISK in game means prices on everything go down, including the price of PLEX, and in the end, a PLEX buys you just as much as it does now, so people will buy them at the same volumes to feed their lifestyles. As you quite rightly pointed out turning the faucet off could increase the value of ISK per unit as the total amount of available ISK decreases. The only suggested change that could possibly have real impact to this end is the change to ice fields which would in effect be a massive capital/POS nerf to 0.0, Low sec and Empire space alike. This would happen as ice products would be in short supply. Null sec alliances would have no choice but to hoard ice products in their claimed systems otherwise it would create possible problems impacting POS, logistics, moon harvesting, capital production and further to that anyone in Empire space running POS structures would have a hard time acquiring these products at a reasonable price point at all. IÆm sure youÆre aware of all the possible subtexts of this hence I havenÆt covered all possible impacts for the sake of brevity. ------
Ladie Scarlet GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.08.17 07:33:00 - [380] Originally by: Windjammer Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Originally by: Windjammer I used to do a lot of L4 missions. Several hours a day. Well now I see why you're such an expert on all things relating to nullsec. Yes. Because I once did something that has nothing to do with null sec, it means I know nothing about null sec. Brilliant deduction. YouÆre staying true to your form. Honestly, how do you manage to speak around your foot? It also seems that you are an expert at posting badly. It must be nice to speak with such authority.

Kendra Wilkinson	Posted - 2011.08.17 09:43:00 - [381] I really want to see : - how much CAP and POS gonna be out of fuel without the empire "icecarebear". - how the rig market will react - how the ammo market will react too (think about your precious Republic Fleet EMP and Caldari Navy Scourge) - How you gonna pimp your Tengu Hi-sec bear provide an huge effort to let you play your game style. I'm not sure that everybody will go in null sec, just because some of us dont want add other source of stress (some of us got a life, job, kids, wife) and arent ready to listen some stuff like "***ing *****ed zon of b*iatch you have again loose your mack". There's so many reason why ppl want apply in large alliance : - mandatory CTA with 4 hours of waiting and finally nothing because hostile have too much supers on field - tax - rules for ratting - due to RL obligation some of us must logoff without worring about 'does i have aggro timer' - madatory fitting (player : 'but i cant fitt that' / FC : 'so you logg of and dont farm')
Raynohr Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2011.08.17 10:38:00 - [382] ccp will loose more players form this then from nex rage, mark my words.
WeirdNoise Caldari tagueuletoi	Posted - 2011.08.17 10:46:00 - [383] Originally by: Iron Breaker If they do this CCP will likely lose half of their suscribers; the half who are not interested in PvP. All of the stuff that was discussed seemes to involve getting peole out into low & null sec. I, and a lot of other people are not interested in PvP, which seems to be something CCP cannot understand. Trying to force us to do something we do not want to do, and expecting us to pay $15 for it, seems like a poor business model. If CCP implemented such changes, as an empire-only player one wouldn't need to go to low sec in order to get these meta or faction modules : they would be sold on the empire markets by players. I'm interested by such changes.
Myz Toyou APOCALYPSE LEGION	Posted - 2011.08.17 13:12:00 - [384] Originally by: Kurokawa Ryujin Dear CCP, There will no longer be cheap ship or ammo for you. If worse come to worse, you might even end up flying through empty highsec system like what you are experiencing right now in null-sec. To be honest, I miss the days when a 1400mm Howi was 12mil a pop and a hulk was 400mil, it made sure that not every 3 month old clueless newbie was flying **** he should better not fly. And empty high sec systems ) Dont see a problem either, more free production slots in stations and more Ore in the belts.
Rikeka Eye of God	Posted - 2011.08.17 13:51:00 - [385] Originally by: Myz Toyou Originally by: Kurokawa Ryujin Dear CCP, There will no longer be cheap ship or ammo for you. If worse come to worse, you might even end up flying through empty highsec system like what you are experiencing right now in null-sec. To be honest, I miss the days when a 1400mm Howi was 12mil a pop and a hulk was 400mil, it made sure that not every 3 month old clueless newbie was flying ** he should better not fly. And empty high sec systems ) Dont see a problem either, more free production slots in stations and more Ore in the belts. This. To hell with high sec peeps. They want to keep making 40m an hour (plus LP), without taking a single risk in the game. EVE is a fricking PVP game. CCP, play hardball, you'll lose some customers, but you'll gain more in the long run. And it doesn't have to be even that harsh, nor change a thing in high sec! Increase the reward in low sec and null. Once you've done that, whatever ISK people make in high sec will be pointless, since null-space residents determine the Jita prices**, not the high sec population. Sure, the cost of stuff will increase. But even high sec manufacturers will like it, since they will have a higher profit for their products.
Admiral Leviathan	Posted - 2011.08.17 13:56:00 - [386] Originally by: Bronden Neopatus Originally by: Iron Breaker If they do this CCP will likely lose half of their suscribers; the half who are not interested in PvP. All of the stuff that was discussed seemes to involve getting peole out into low & null sec. I, and a lot of other people are not interested in PvP, which seems to be something CCP cannot understand. Trying to force us to do something we do not want to do, and expecting us to pay $15 for it, seems like a poor business model. This, which means OP is full of bull. The devblog is about nullsec evolution, not about "let's tell half our suscribers that they can pretty much go play another game". It's like the neverending "move X to lowsec" nonsense, or how risking 100 ISK to get 1 should be appealing to any carebear with half a functioning brain just because they tell you so. Wanna see people in lowsec? Make those Lvl 5 missions worth 150 million a piece & have the agents hand out only 1 each 24 hours per corporation and/or player. They are already worth about half that ammount and are handed out as fast as you can complete them. Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about.
Bodega Cat	Posted - 2011.08.17 13:59:00 - [387] Imagine for a second, you are an industrial minded player. You have a hulk and you spend the majority of your time mining. This is an experience you find enjoyable and what you tend to do with your minerals once you're done is you take them to Jita to sell. This is how you make your living in eve. One day you are out mining, and 4 Thrashers show up while your taking a sip of coke, lock you, and suicide kill you. This is something that typically happens, and it sucks for the hulk who got ganked, but bare with me.... Because what people CANNOT imagine, is that the ore they sell in jita, gets bought by a manufacturer who makes ammo. That ammo manufacturer sells his ammo in jita too, and on a particularly fateful day, 4 guys bought thrashers, and bought ammo from the dealer who used a miners minerals to make bullets, and then those 4 thrasher pilots went out and killed the guy who had a hand in the very arms they are using to slay him. My point is... Everything in EVE is "versus other players". Period. I don't care if you are a 0.0 alliance mogel, a wormholer, or an empire miner, everything any of us do is at the expense of someone else thats doing something as well.
Cashcow Golden Goose	Posted - 2011.08.17 14:00:00 - [388] CCP in "Moving All The Macro Ice Miners To Where Nobody Can See Them" non shocker. No more of those pesky petitions to deal with!
Signal11th	Posted - 2011.08.17 14:26:00 - [389] Edited by: Signal11th on 17/08/2011 14:39:16 Edited by: Signal11th on 17/08/2011 14:29:11 Originally by: Rikeka Originally by: Myz Toyou Originally by: Kurokawa Ryujin Dear CCP, There will no longer be cheap ship or ammo for you. If worse come to worse, you might even end up flying through empty highsec system like what you are experiencing right now in null-sec. To be honest, I miss the days when a 1400mm Howi was 12mil a pop and a hulk was 400mil, it made sure that not every 3 month old clueless newbie was flying ** he should better not fly. And empty high sec systems ) Dont see a problem either, more free production slots in stations and more Ore in the belts. This. To hell with high sec peeps. They want to keep making 40m an hour (plus LP), without taking a single risk in the game. EVE is a fricking PVP game. CCP, play hardball, you'll lose some customers, but you'll gain more in the long run. And it doesn't have to be even that harsh, nor change a thing in high sec! Increase the reward in low sec and null. Once you've done that, whatever ISK people make in high sec will be pointless, since null-space residents determine the Jita prices**, not the high sec population. Sure, the cost of stuff will increase. But even high sec manufacturers will like it, since they will have a higher profit for their products. Although your post's are usually ok.....I have to take umbrage with the above statement. Since when is EVE a "PVP" (as in a ship against ship if this isn;t what you mean't I apologise) game? Although I dread the thought of even venturing anywhere near high-sec Eve is a sandbox game, you do what "you" want to do. You want to have fun in 0.0 and low-sec you do it, you want to mine all day you do it. You want to earn money all day in high-sec it's your choice. You have to realise that although people in 0.0 shout the loudest and have a unreasonble amount of clout in the EVE world they are actually a minority of the playerbase. Personally myself I would like to able to shoot the hell out of anyone I please where ever they are but unfortunately those are not the rules. I've spent the last 2 years in 0.0 and tbh until your sort out the issues of one or two allainces or coalition of alliances ruling pretty much 75% of the map you will not get guys from highsec going into 0.0. People want to work and earn for themselves not to work and earn just to fill someone elses wallet. (it's bad enough with have to do that in the real world let alone in a virtual world where "we" are supossed to be making the rules) I do believe though there should be no faction goodies in high sec at all only low-sec or below. You want the shiny goodies you should be taking some risk.
Ishabell Solario	Posted - 2011.08.17 14:52:00 - [390] "Since when is EVE a "PVP" game? Although I dread the thought of even venturing anywhere near high-sec Eve is a sandbox game, you do what "you" want to do. You want to have fun in 0.0 and low-sec you do it, you want to mine all day you do it. You want to earn money all day in high-sec it's your choice. You have to realise that although people in 0.0 shout the loudest and have a unreasonble amount of clout in the EVE world they are actually a minority of the playerbase." +1 for this You can't advertise EVE as a game where you can choose your career path & then take a huff because people don't choose the path you thought they would/should take.

Lord Wiggin Gallente Furian Necromongers	Posted - 2011.08.17 16:15:00 - [391] Originally by: Asuri Kinnes Snip ...... Is it a requirement to be a complete and utter moron to be a Necromonger? For any plex to come in the game, they have to be paid for. Once they are paid for, they = 30 days game time. Nobody "plays for free". Your entire post was based on a mistaken fallacy. idiot, just like the OP. No, if it was a requirement I would have to accept your app.... I don't know why you don't get this. A large number of people earn ingame ISK to pay for plex/GTC. They don't pay a dime for the game. so the game is actually supported by a smaller number of players buying GTC. Is that too hard to understand? This space reserved...
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.17 17:53:00 - [392] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 17/08/2011 17:54:14 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Windjammer Yes, Tippia, technically you are correct. Some small amount of the high end minerals come from recycled loot. But that's just it: it's not ôsome small amountö ù again, nearly 40% of the Megacyte used to come from loot. If I remember the recycling fix numbers somewhat correctly, that'll be down to maybe 25% ù that most definitely qualifies as a meaningful quantity. As the table you mention treated as "loot" recycled T2 stuff and modules used for mineral compression, the data were so heavily contaminated by spurious data to be almost meaningless. When it was done there was plenty of people buying underpriced T2 ships, recycling them and selling the components at a profit. A corpmate did that with 30 Astarte that month. The sad part is that CCP don't seem to have developed better data gathering tools. Quote: This was the one month split for all items reprocessed measured mid-august to mid-september 2008. 3 years oif changes, practically meaningless. \| Megacyte \|\|ORE 44% \|\| LOOt 39% \|\| DRONE COMPUND16% Originally by: Tippia Weeeellà granted, things have changed a bit since the reprocessing changes last year, Make it 3 years of changes, Tippia.
Lonox Gallente Hilmar is Lord	Posted - 2011.08.17 18:32:00 - [393] Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 17/08/2011 06:24:00 Originally by: Kurokawa Ryujin . There will no longer be cheap ship or ammo for you. If worse come to worse, you might even end up flying through empty highsec system like what you are experiencing right now in null-sec. Let's see how you like playing in your little sandbox all by yourselves. What would we do without the rich content provided by highsec npc corp players? Cry for CCP to nerf everyone else. Originally by: Holly Cleland has red bruising and veins popping up where the monocle plugs in. No wonder you people are so angry, you're doing it wrong.
Ranger 1 Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2011.08.17 18:35:00 - [394] This is one of the better troll threads I've seen. Congrats! ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction.
Judge Ment BOOM BOOM POW	Posted - 2011.08.17 18:39:00 - [395] Originally by: Raynohr ccp will loose more players form this then from nex rage, mark my words. Just think I'll be here to see it! yay ------------------------------------- We judge others by actions We judge ourselves by intentions.
Asuri Kinnes Caldari Adhocracy Incorporated	Posted - 2011.08.17 18:46:00 - [396] Originally by: Erichk Knaar Originally by: Asuri Kinnes Originally by: Lord Wiggin Wow. It's really amazing how many people think that this planned nerf is about getting people into 0.0. News flash, they have already nerfed 0.0. It's already a ghosttown now, you think a huge influx of people will help? This is about money. As far as CCP is concerned, entirely too many people play the game without paying a dime, which means a smaller number of people are supporting the entire game. If these people get tired of paying big money for a game, CCP will be in trouble. Based on current plex prices, that may already be happening. Is it a requirement to be a complete and utter moron to be a Necromonger? For any plex to come in the game, they have to be paid for. Once they are paid for, they = 30 days game time. Nobody "plays for free". Your entire post was based on a mistaken fallacy. idiot, just like the OP. No, he has a point. I get your point. A lot of people don't understand the PLEX economy and think "lolol, I playz for free", but there is a point to be made in concentrating the risk on a smaller population who actually pay real money for the game. One guy/gal who pays for an account and maybe, say 4 PLEX a month quits and the people who were buying those PLEX can't afford to IRL? Good answer, even tho you have a monocle, I'm going to treat you like a real person. Plex market will adjust itself (slowly, over time) like it does now. When more people want to buy them than are selling, the price goes up, which encourages more people to sell them, which brings the price down, which makes more people want them, which raises the price. . . . It goes like that all the time. ONLY in one specific case (when the game is loosing subs at a progressively faster and faster rate - which I dont' think is happening at the moment - I could be wrong) will the play for plex model crash (imho). ATM, CCP have the NEX store to soak up some of their "future" liabilities (every plex represents 30 days CCP has commited to keeping the servers on). Now, IF we lose players faster and faster and faster, then it's an issue. BUT - ATM "playing for free" is a non-issue, and in fact, CCP encourages it (with plex and NEX). You may not realize it, but I sub by the year, someone who plays with plex is paying CCP far more than I am per/month to play?). CCP likes people who play with plex. Wormholes: The NEW end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs. NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA!
Bodega Cat	Posted - 2011.08.18 02:27:00 - [397] Originally by: Ishabell Solario +1 for this You can't advertise EVE as a game where you can choose your career path & then take a huff because people don't choose the path you thought they would/should take. Yes, their are many different career paths in eve, but not a single one of them is you in a pool by yourself. Theirs always other people in your pool, and you are competing against them in every single aspect of EVE. Again, everything in eve is "against other players" in some regard. Its all PVP. Just cause its not one ship locking another and shooting it doesn't mean what you do isn't at the expense of someone elses time or fun. Every isk you earn, is one someone is losing (or the value thereof, diminishes). I consider myself the type that likes to blow ships up. But when i take my stuff to market, i sell at a loss to buy orders because i'll get my butt kicked in the .1 isk games the market people play on sell order. In the long run, i suspect the spread of income i've lost in this fashion equates to at least as many hulks as i've suicided. Please check out my thought experiment on the previous page. I'm so tired of people acting like theirs this big difference between the people that actively blow up ships, versus the people that enable it. Every single person in EVE that cleaves to what we traditionally call PVE only, is a shady dirty arms dealer. If you are into EVE, you are a PVP'er. If we can all agree to that i think we can maybe move the discussion towards more progressive ideas about how we want our game to improve.
Eternum Praetorian PWNED Factor The Seventh Day	Posted - 2011.08.18 02:35:00 - [398] Originally by: Bodega Cat Originally by: Ishabell Solario Yes, their are many different career paths in eve, but not a single one of them is you in a pool by yourself. Theirs always other people in your pool. Pees long and warm in your pool... I just thought i'D throw something constructive in here. Also: "most valuable agents in null" does not mean no lv 4 agents in empire.
Kin Netics	Posted - 2011.08.18 03:00:00 - [399] This game is designed for the vets to ** on new players. I refuse to be ** on when the pvp is obviously not fair. This is a care bear pvp game. It requires no skill. Certain fits with certain builds are guaranteed to win. Most of you have your heads so far up your asses you don't even understand how bs this is. It's why this game is failing and it's why you sit around doing nothing for hours and hours and hours. That's not pvp, its crap and I refuse to play anymore. Most of you could not function in a real pvp game and I laugh at you when you call others care bears. Who's the care bear? It's like being lvl 80 and killing lvl 30's. Safe easy no risk.
Judge Ment BOOM BOOM POW	Posted - 2011.08.18 03:26:00 - [400] Originally by: Kin Netics This game is designed for the vets to ** on new players. I refuse to be on when the pvp is obviously not fair. This is a care bear pvp game. It requires no skill. Certain fits with certain builds are guaranteed to win. Most of you have your heads so far up your asses you don't even understand how bs this is. It's why this game is failing and it's why you sit around doing nothing for hours and hours and hours. That's not pvp, its crap and I refuse to play anymore. Most of you could not function in a real pvp game and I laugh at you when you call others care bears. Who's the care bear? It's like being lvl 80 and killing lvl 30's. Safe easy no risk. well said Sir, I applaud you And if you dont think I understand! I once was **d by many great corps myself. Then 3 of us deck many alliance killing a lot of new corp people. Not to say that my friend Req had killed many of Bricksquads lacky with bomber in military plexs! this was a great way to buy plex :) ------------------------------------- We judge others by actions We judge ourselves by intentions.

Asuri Kinnes Caldari Adhocracy Incorporated	Posted - 2011.08.18 21:08:00 - [401] Originally by: Kin Netics This game is designed for the vets to ** on new players. I refuse to be ** on when the pvp is obviously not fair. This is a care bear pvp game. It requires no skill. Certain fits with certain builds are guaranteed to win. Most of you have your heads so far up your asses you don't even understand how bs this is. It's why this game is failing and it's why you sit around doing nothing for hours and hours and hours. That's not pvp, its crap and I refuse to play anymore. Most of you could not function in a real pvp game and I laugh at you when you call others care bears. Who's the care bear? It's like being lvl 80 and killing lvl 30's. Safe easy no risk. Like my dad used to say... "if you had a clue you'd be dangerous..." Bye bye, I don't want your stuff, bio-mass is best. Wormholes: The NEW end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs. NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA!
Xtreem Gallente The Collective B O R G	Posted - 2011.08.18 21:37:00 - [402] can we get rid of the default insurance to lower inflation also please. thanks
Vulpina Elaphe Amarr	Posted - 2011.08.19 00:17:00 - [403] Edited by: Vulpina Elaphe on 19/08/2011 00:25:58 It makes perfect sense when you re-read the quoted. No guts, no glory. You want to play it safe? You get a slow but guaranteed ISK growth with little risk. You want to get rich fast? You can, but now you have to go where there is risk of losing some or even all the marbles. For people like me who do not have the onions to take that chance, CCP is still going to leave us more than enough to do in hisec space. And while you still are never completely safe in New Eden, it will make 0.5 and up a little safer when those who want more move to low- and nullsec. Vulpina
Michael Lonewolf Caldari MTH Enterprises Incorporated	Posted - 2011.08.19 05:31:00 - [404] I personally was enjoying hi sec the way it was. I am a single dad, full time student, and I hold down a job as well. I don't have the time to take away from my family to get "good" at PvP, so low-sec and null-sec doesn't hold much appeal for me. Most of the big alliances seem to want more active players than I have time to be. It's not wrong for CCP to make sure that players like myself who are limited on time we can actually play can get somewhere in the game. It's also much more difficult to make the social contacts with other players when you can't play very often. Honestly, I see no good reason to limit us further than it already was. I'd like more challenging missions in high sec, it's true. And risk vs. reward...it's more like time = rewards. Losing a ship, or a clone, is just ISK, and thus an investment in time. Buy some extra plex and sell 'em for ISK ($30-40 is less than a night at the movies with a date), and you can get a few hundred million ISK. I don't see people clamoring to remove that. Also...that elitist attitude that only people who want to go into null-sec or low-sec bring anything worthwhile to the game is childish. Also, those of us who play casually pay the same monthly fees that everyone else does, and put less load on the servers than the guys who live on here. Eve's a big universe, there's no reason to pee in the cheerios of the "carebears". You're not going to force them into low-sec or null-sec by nerfing high-sec, 'cause it's just not a part of the game that some of us are interested in.
Merlin of Neweden	Posted - 2011.08.19 05:40:00 - [405] Edited by: Merlin of Neweden on 19/08/2011 05:42:19 I believe in risk vs reward too, except I don't see it working in 0.0. In your big alliance with multiple systems all around full of alliance buddies all inevitably in alliance chat acting as constant and effortless scouts, it is just a cosy little or often big bubble with absolutely no risk at all. Considering the flourishing pirate activity in high sec atm with wardecs, corp greifers and ever more and more complex and shifting aggro mechanics which even the veteran can find hard to keep up with, this is all compounded.
Tippia Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.08.19 05:49:00 - [406] Originally by: Kin Netics I refuse to be ** on when the pvp is obviously not fair. How is it not fair? Everyone has access to the exact same things. Quote: This is a care bear pvp game. It requires no skill. Certain fits with certain builds are guaranteed to win. Most of you have your heads so far up your asses you don't even understand how bs this is. No, most understand just fine that what you just said is BS. There are no guarantees. Quote:** It's like being lvl 80 and killing lvl 30's. No, because in those games, the lvl 30s can't hurt the lvl 80 ù in this game, they can. With ease. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Mazoka	Posted - 2011.08.19 07:43:00 - [407] Edited by: Mazoka on 19/08/2011 07:45:56 Originally by: Wookie 1 Edited by: Wookie 1 on 15/08/2011 18:10:51 I actually think this raises the interesting question of whether there will soon be too little ISK making a potential problem economically. After all much of the ISK is now concentrated in fewer hands than previous times. What I mean by this is that in some ways its now becoming more difficult to make good ISK in any kind of reasonable time. I am not whining and saying give people free stuff dont get me wrong, all I mean is that in the time since I have been playing there has been an inflationary spiral in prices and generally speaking it just seems like ISK is harder to make. Maybe its just me, I have long been confused by other peoples speed at making ISK in whatever way so maybe thats it. i believe you do have some point in that. when i started the game like 2 years ago +/-, i herd there was good loot in LVL 4 missions. i did not experienced that as i was unable to understand the game mechanics at the time. for what i understand, you could fill a hauler of loot, from some missions. now, you're lucky if you can fill half a noctis. maybe there was different perspectives in the game, less big ships and so on. since then, I've watched constant nerfings in the loot missions, in the drone compounds - before, some players would face drone missions as a way to obtain some minerals, to help them buyild a ship. now, they're a bit of a junk mission that some people want to avoid - no bounty's and no worthy mineral amount, as it used to be. i remember a friend that was trying to speed up "attack of the drones" because it was a junk for him, and ended up loosing his ship, in a lame mission, with no bounty and lame mineral (and people talk about nerfing the payout in high sec) the mission loot was further nerfed, by dropping metal scraps, instead of useful modules. when incursions came, doing missions was bad, because suddenly, you're agent would give you 2 missions you wanted to refuse, so you had to go to other system to get other agent, but there would be an incursion there, and isn't good to do them, with reduced resistances. around that time, several people cancelled they're subscriptions, because the conditions created by ccp where to force people to play the game as ccp wanted, and not as players would expect/wished playing. later on, ccp changed the situation by removing the agent quality, wish is a benefict in many ways, as any agent of any level is as good as his fellow agent of same level. that creates freedom for players to choose where to move. (i hope ccp realizes some day, that loosing standings in missions - against the other npc faction - could be changed so that players could go to other empire regions, unless they're in Faction warfare) i believe that nerfing high sec, will have consequences that will **** of a lot of players, that don't have the time to play as much as others, or simply don't want to do other diferent things except what they have doone for a long time. also, if ccp thinks about removing ice belts from high sec, go ahead ... remove ice belts from high sec ... and see how fast more accounts get cancelled. way players have a second account or more, that mines ice afk, wile they're other account is pvp'ing somewhere ? if there's no ice, why they need a ice miner alt ? they won't need it any more. it might be like when they removed the 500k isk bounty bs's from low sec, just to figure out they wanted low sec more valuable after all and have to reintroduce it again ... - i think ccp should increase mission pay out in low sec and null sec, if that's an issue - null sec ice is already specialized and better in some areas, than high sec ice. - removing meta lvl loot drops from missions will only make them look more dull and boring that what they are already.
Shivaitee	Posted - 2011.08.19 07:55:00 - [408] Originally by: Iron Breaker If they do this CCP will likely lose half of their suscribers; the half who are not interested in PvP. All of the stuff that was discussed seemes to involve getting peole out into low & null sec. I, and a lot of other people are not interested in PvP, which seems to be something CCP cannot understand. Trying to force us to do something we do not want to do, and expecting us to pay $15 for it, seems like a poor business model. Iron I agree with you 100%. I think you are totally correct; I have 3 accounts in EVE, and I have been in a lot of MMOs... Everquest, EQOA, AION, you name it. And all I have seen most of the times from developers is their desire to just satisfy "the kid's side"... their desire to just feel GOOD or have their EGO recognized because they kill or they shut down someone ("WOW! I'm the bad guy..." -the pirates)... I joined this game to play peacefully, and I wanted to visit low sectors and null sectors, but seeing how childish people are, to attack defenseless miner vessels just broke my nerves out. Thus I decided to stay in High sectors mining, salvaging, hanging around by myself, I found most of the people (players) in game were very egocentric and to be truthful, couldnt trust easily, so I decided to play myself alone.... They are re-creating this game to meet the desire of kids wanting to play the same "sim-boss" I see in other MMO's... Now I have a question to CCP... make the changes but why change High Sectors or nerf them out? People who don't like to go to lowsec, or nullsec wont go there... If I join this game to be a peaceful player and relax my free time out of work (I'm an old guy) and I find myself I have to pay to play what I do not want... CCP you only have 2 words from me... FORGET IT... EVE would be done for me... At least my 3 accounts x 14.95 = $44.85 that I pay monthly from my bank account would be gone the next month after.. Remember CCP... you don't live out of kid's being happy, you live out of the money that CLIENTS pay.
Miss Rabblt	Posted - 2011.08.19 09:59:00 - [409] Originally by: Shivaitee I joined this game to play peacefully, and I wanted to visit low sectors and null sectors, but seeing how childish people are, to attack defenseless miner vessels just broke my nerves out. i seriously advice you to not visit any places outside middle of your city. Don't even try to visit poor african's countryes or something! You will find people tooo childish that they can attack even peaceful tourist! Sorry for trolling but you aren't serious! I can't believe!
Billy Endashi	Posted - 2011.08.19 11:17:00 - [410] This is without a doubt the most ******ed thing i've ever read. son, i am dissapoint. CCP, are you trolling us?

Billy Endashi	Posted - 2011.08.19 11:29:00 - [411] What could possibly more safe than living in alliance null? I don see why they should have everything that is good? Risky places to live in order: WH->LS->NULL&HS It's only risky running missions/sites in null, if you dont control the area, even then it's probably not risker than running them in low sec.
Hestia Mar	Posted - 2011.08.19 11:57:00 - [412] It won't be the end of lucrative activities though - simply they will be in different locations. I have no problem with moving to 0,0 - in fact my main's corp is joining a smallish sov-holding alliance in null in the next week or so and so I'll be moving down there as well. I'll put up with the problems that brings with it. What this seems to signify is that that CCP recognise that EVE is NOT a pvp game as a lot of the forum trolls here would have us believe; its has developed, in the two and half years I've been playing, into a game for the "casually dedicated" player - in other words people like me and a number of my corpies who play for a couple of hours almost every night but don't have the time or inclination to do 50 system roams. I think there is still a place in the game for the pierats - but the Concord game mechanic needs a major adjustment so that there are no 'guaranteed' concord-free areas; if such a pierat decides to attack another player, then there should be the worry that the pierat may still get concordokkend - you can't quote risk v reward solely in respect of carebears. At the moment there is in effect no risk for an ebil piewat if he's ganking an inexperienced indy toon in nullsec. H
octahexx Charante	Posted - 2011.08.19 14:38:00 - [413] lol...have any of you nullbears ever even grinded lvl4 missions? its like being drilled at the dentist without painkillers. its the most boring dull braindamaging "game content" you can do except mining that is even worse. so know ccp suggest you make this horrrible mindnumbing boring labour even less worth doing and this will make the game better? are you for real? its what people do to be able to wage wars or go to lowsec for the fun part of the game as in pvp. haha...lol whatever ccp keep failcascading your playerbase.
Signal11th	Posted - 2011.08.19 14:42:00 - [414] Originally by: octahexx Charante lol...have any of you nullbears ever even grinded lvl4 missions? its like being drilled at the dentist without painkillers. its the most boring dull braindamaging "game content" you can do except mining that is even worse. so know ccp suggest you make this horrrible mindnumbing boring labour even less worth doing and this will make the game better? are you for real? its what people do to be able to wage wars or go to lowsec for the fun part of the game as in pvp. haha...lol whatever ccp keep failcascading your playerbase. Yep because grinding sanctums and havens is waaay more fun.
Shivaitee	Posted - 2011.08.19 14:46:00 - [415] Originally by: Miss Rabblt Originally by: Shivaitee I joined this game to play peacefully, and I wanted to visit low sectors and null sectors, but seeing how childish people are, to attack defenseless miner vessels just broke my nerves out. i seriously advice you to not visit any places outside middle of your city. Don't even try to visit poor african's countryes or something! You will find people tooo childish that they can attack even peaceful tourist! Sorry for trolling but you aren't serious! I can't believe! Well you are comparing a game to real life, and the differences are bast... I work a lot of hours and many hours on the streets and I have to visit dangerous places... Have in mind something... It's childish to compare this game to real life.. They have nothing to do eachother. I said, have this in your mind... be objective... I play the game peacefully, doesnt that mean to you I'm sick of seen hostility from people out there!? Be mature and do not make fun of other people thoughts.
Cool Coogo	Posted - 2011.08.19 15:21:00 - [416] Edited by: Cool Coogo on 19/08/2011 15:23:45 if T2 ships and modules might leave highsec, maybe now people will start to learn how to fit properly and concentrate more on skilling their core certificates for capacitor, cpu, powergrid, and other things. You can do a lot of damage with T1 tech if you understand those basics. CCP should include those things in the tutorial.
Zyress	Posted - 2011.08.19 16:48:00 - [417] Originally by: Signal11th Originally by: octahexx Charante lol...have any of you nullbears ever even grinded lvl4 missions? its like being drilled at the dentist without painkillers. its the most boring dull braindamaging "game content" you can do except mining that is even worse. so know ccp suggest you make this horrrible mindnumbing boring labour even less worth doing and this will make the game better? are you for real? its what people do to be able to wage wars or go to lowsec for the fun part of the game as in pvp. haha...lol whatever ccp keep failcascading your playerbase. Yep because grinding sanctums and havens is waaay more fun. I doubt they're waay more fun, but they are more rewarding
Zyress	Posted - 2011.08.19 16:54:00 - [418] Originally by: Miss Rabblt Originally by: Shivaitee I joined this game to play peacefully, and I wanted to visit low sectors and null sectors, but seeing how childish people are, to attack defenseless miner vessels just broke my nerves out. i seriously advice you to not visit any places outside middle of your city. Don't even try to visit poor african's countryes or something! You will find people tooo childish that they can attack even peaceful tourist! Sorry for trolling but you aren't serious! I can't believe! I've been to Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Lebanon and Mogadishu, and I love a quiet evening of missioning or mining with my friends. I also believe ppl that trap and kill defenseless miners then poke out their chests and proclaim what a great warrior they are, are stupid little kids that wouldn't know honor if it sat on their faces.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2011.08.19 16:56:00 - [419] Originally by: Zyress Originally by: Miss Rabblt Originally by: Shivaitee I joined this game to play peacefully, and I wanted to visit low sectors and null sectors, but seeing how childish people are, to attack defenseless miner vessels just broke my nerves out. i seriously advice you to not visit any places outside middle of your city. Don't even try to visit poor african's countryes or something! You will find people tooo childish that they can attack even peaceful tourist! Sorry for trolling but you aren't serious! I can't believe! I've been to Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Lebanon and Mogadishu, and I love a quiet evening of missioning or mining with my friends. I also believe ppl that trap and kill defenseless miners then poke out their chests and proclaim what a great warrior they are, are stupid little kids that wouldn't know honor if it sat on their faces. Quoted for irony. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
Shivaitee	Posted - 2011.08.19 17:32:00 - [420] Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: Zyress Originally by: Miss Rabblt Originally by: Shivaitee I joined this game to play peacefully, and I wanted to visit low sectors and null sectors, but seeing how childish people are, to attack defenseless miner vessels just broke my nerves out. i seriously advice you to not visit any places outside middle of your city. Don't even try to visit poor african's countryes or something! You will find people tooo childish that they can attack even peaceful tourist! Sorry for trolling but you aren't serious! I can't believe! I've been to Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Lebanon and Mogadishu, and I love a quiet evening of missioning or mining with my friends. I also believe ppl that trap and kill defenseless miners then poke out their chests and proclaim what a great warrior they are, are stupid little kids that wouldn't know honor if it sat on their faces. Quoted for irony. Ironic, or not, but let me tell you that no company have ever done an MMO with a grading example... "For Mature people Only"... To me, is just enough what I see on the streets, and I have to find it and feel it when I sit on the chair in front of my own computer.. Simply is ridiculous, parents should start implementing stronger disciplinary techniques. Either these kids do it virtually or in real life still the seed of crime is in their minds. I've seen 16 yrs old kids kill another kid.. I would love EVE CCP team to consider that as well. At least here in the United States there are multiple organizations that are against violence in games. So proposing violence and instigating or upgrading to show "more" chaotic or violent situations in the mind of kids I believe makes society worst no matter where you live whether a civilized country or in a country in the middle of Africa.

Abriael VonRosen Caldari	Posted - 2011.08.19 18:16:00 - [421] I think it can be a positively bad idea if implemented to the extreme consequences, but I also think that they will not implement it as radically as some think. I'm quite sure people at CCP are aware that there are many in the game that aren't interested in limiting their own enjoyment of eve to play as target for others. -- Abriael Contributing Writer - DualShockers.com
Shivaitee	Posted - 2011.08.19 23:07:00 - [422] Originally by: Abriael VonRosen I think it can be a positively bad idea if implemented to the extreme consequences, but I also think that they will not implement it as radically as some think. I'm quite sure people at CCP are aware that there are many in the game that aren't interested in limiting their own enjoyment of eve to play as target for others. Well, for me as long as they do not nerf asteroid amounts in high sectors, and ice in highsec, which are the 2 things I dedicate to mostly, after that, to refining... etc... But like I said, I would not be paying to see selfish little kids play the "sim-boss" way.. Like I always said to my wife, let the kid's cry never give them what they want easily... do you remember the "Dad would give me $20 at the end of the week for being good in school...? " Show them they have to respect... The same thing happens in these kind of games... Developers are acting like moms wanting to give them things so easily so they can be happy and stop crying. Never give them what they want easily. Make them learn to earn it with effort and respect. That is discipline. If they get use to receive things easily in life, they would want the same thing to happen when they grow older, and worst, they start to manipulate, steal, lie, and do a lot of other things which in many cases are worst. The same thing happens in these games. Think of it, realize it, visualize it and you guys will see what I'm talking about... At the end, the ones that would be blamed would be the parents for their mischief and allowing their children's mischief... Relating to it... At the end.. CCP (-parents-) would be the ones responsible and the ones to be blamed for their upgrades.. For me it's done... good luck...
Rhes Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.08.19 23:16:00 - [423] Originally by: Shivaitee Like I always said to my wife, let the kid's cry never give them what they want Father of the Year right here.
Shivaitee	Posted - 2011.08.19 23:27:00 - [424] Originally by: Rhes Originally by: Shivaitee Like I always said to my wife, let the kid's cry never give them what they want Father of the Year right here. As always comes the individual that makes fun or doesn't know how to respect other people's thoughts... I wont respond.. Not worth.
kari bourza	Posted - 2011.08.19 23:45:00 - [425] This should be interesting to watch unfold, right now most of 0.0 is crap, you make a better living running lvl 4s in high sec and you loose way lesser ships
velox Gallente	Posted - 2011.08.20 12:26:00 - [426] I started playing eve like many in beta, my character is one of the oldest on the server, and I am amazed that after all that time CCP still have no gameplan as to how to make 0.0 work and balance that with those who want the PVE that high sec offers. Over the last few years more and more of my friends have quit to play aion, rift or some other new offering. Its a trend I dont see reversing. CCP's wipe board of ideas is pitiful. This many years in they shouldn't need to be brainstorming ideas they should be implementing the master plan but they havent got one. Patch after patch gives nothing in the way of content, or changes that make you want to log in everyday. Why is it that CCP's ideas to encourage people into nullsec are never centered around new content or features added to that space instead lots of the latest talk is about taking features away from people in high sec unless they move to low... People wont see it now but CCP is in crysis they really have no idea what or where the future is. I remember hearing about the Jove was many many years ago and yet we still have nothing in game linking us to their space. Would have been great if an expansion had opened up Jove space/content/plexs all routed through nullsec etc.... instead we get the same old crap. CQ... way to go. Dont get me wrong I absolutley love EVE, have done since day one, I am just angry and sad that we aren't being shown a strong path forward instead we are being shown a company in disarray which will implement features that might not effect you but will effect someone and ultimately the number of subs and that affects us all. Our corp was once over 70 active players just a few years ago now corp chat has about 6 in it each night. Shame on you CCP. Always aiming one step beyond the edge.
Fix Lag	Posted - 2011.08.20 12:28:00 - [427] Originally by: Shivaitee As always comes the individual that makes fun or doesn't know how to respect other people's thoughts... I wont respond.. Not worth. wat Fix Lag!
Wu Tarot	Posted - 2011.08.20 12:35:00 - [428] Then again, telling (whats the number ppl throw around 70-80%?) of your player base "play the game right or go elsewhere" is a grand business strategy. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1559306&page=3#71 CCP read the comments, remember SWG. They thought THEY knew what was best for THEIR game too........
zeberath	Posted - 2011.08.20 22:01:00 - [429] My point of view of the game right now is as follow: (go to the bottom for a TLDR version) Every, normal people in this world actually have business, life, and stuff, there are some who doesn't but i think the game should some how fix to every people. I have some friends in eve, we pewpew pvp in low sometimes, but we actually play max 3 hours average. Our only way to make viable money is farm L4 hsec, because our 150m or more battleship is secure. I need to run a lot of L4 to afford a new pve ship. With that statements what i mean is, even if you guys reward more in low/null make sure they PAY enough from bounty and rewards to afford losing pve ships every day. A gang comes in, combat probe scan, mwd scramble, say goodbye to the ship. So they need to make sure the risk/reward is enough. Other point is, where you buy the things? even in high sec if you don't move to the big hubs the prices are overpriced as ** or you can't even buy that module you need. Move stuff from high sec to null sec? Okay, is a very risky option, i suposse only big corp alliances do that in freighters. So, i need hubs to buy things in low/null like if in high sec, even is the price is high, at least if the isk/risk is worth it, no problem. Until all of this happen i can't move from high sec! only doing some pewpew low sec, earn money highsec -> destroy it in low for fun! also for the pvp, i know sandbox is freedom but CCP needs to apply things to make sure the veteran rich players are worth killing way more than noobs, i know actually they drops bigger modules. What i want is average players >5months or 1year old in the game, move more to low sec, i always find in low the godlike veterans in their holy ships, the chances to kill something are very low. Then the veterans would like to move more to null sec, not stay always in low sec space, i am not talking about the nolife beigs who actually are in a alliance of nullsec doing a lot of stuff daily, i talk about just normal people, kind of casual, they want to pewpew more too, the only way to do that is suicide low, be in a great gang, or wait until you can afford the holy pvp ship and skills. TLDR:** I am a casual player, only playing 3 hours day max, and not all the days. I just want to be able to live in low/null, with the reward/risk successfully balanced. Be able to buy and sell stuff without moving to the god damn main trade hubs. more hubs, more material in low sec, more carebears chance to survival. all that stuff.. I do not want to farm high sec, then burn money in low doing pewpew... excuse me if my english is not good enough.
Shivaitee	Posted - 2011.08.21 04:18:00 - [430] Originally by: Fix Lag Originally by: Shivaitee As always comes the individual that makes fun or doesn't know how to respect other people's thoughts... I wont respond.. Not worth. wat Well, to answer to this... It's is irrational, unrespectful to any person, when it speaks, someone comes in to make fun of it. That is why I say [quote myself] I wont respond.. Not worth...[end quote] Because simply I find it offensive when you explain something in any forum, comes in an individual who has no educational values and offend it making fun or just trying to. So the best way to answer to these kind of individuals is just ignoring them, this is to answer your "wat" question.

Shivaitee	Posted - 2011.08.21 04:23:00 - [431] Originally by: velox I started playing eve like many in beta, my character is one of the oldest on the server, and I am amazed that after all that time CCP still have no gameplan as to how to make 0.0 work and balance that with those who want the PVE that high sec offers. Over the last few years more and more of my friends have quit to play aion, rift or some other new offering. Its a trend I dont see reversing. CCP's wipe board of ideas is pitiful. This many years in they shouldn't need to be brainstorming ideas they should be implementing the master plan but they havent got one. Patch after patch gives nothing in the way of content, or changes that make you want to log in everyday. Why is it that CCP's ideas to encourage people into nullsec are never centered around new content or features added to that space instead lots of the latest talk is about taking features away from people in high sec unless they move to low... People wont see it now but CCP is in crysis they really have no idea what or where the future is. I remember hearing about the Jove was many many years ago and yet we still have nothing in game linking us to their space. Would have been great if an expansion had opened up Jove space/content/plexs all routed through nullsec etc.... instead we get the same old crap. CQ... way to go. Dont get me wrong I absolutley love EVE, have done since day one, I am just angry and sad that we aren't being shown a strong path forward instead we are being shown a company in disarray which will implement features that might not effect you but will effect someone and ultimately the number of subs and that affects us all. Our corp was once over 70 active players just a few years ago now corp chat has about 6 in it each night. Shame on you CCP. Velox, CCP is not the only team of devs I see doing the same.. AION, Everquest, EQOA, and a lot of other games... they just don't like older people playing these games...
Shivaitee	Posted - 2011.08.21 04:26:00 - [432] Originally by: zeberath My point of view of the game right now is as follow: (go to the bottom for a TLDR version) Every, normal people in this world actually have business, life, and stuff, there are some who doesn't but i think the game should some how fix to every people. I have some friends in eve, we pewpew pvp in low sometimes, but we actually play max 3 hours average. Our only way to make viable money is farm L4 hsec, because our 150m or more battleship is secure. I need to run a lot of L4 to afford a new pve ship. With that statements what i mean is, even if you guys reward more in low/null make sure they PAY enough from bounty and rewards to afford losing pve ships every day. A gang comes in, combat probe scan, mwd scramble, say goodbye to the ship. So they need to make sure the risk/reward is enough. Other point is, where you buy the things? even in high sec if you don't move to the big hubs the prices are overpriced as ** or you can't even buy that module you need. Move stuff from high sec to null sec? Okay, is a very risky option, i suposse only big corp alliances do that in freighters. So, i need hubs to buy things in low/null like if in high sec, even is the price is high, at least if the isk/risk is worth it, no problem. Until all of this happen i can't move from high sec! only doing some pewpew low sec, earn money highsec -> destroy it in low for fun! also for the pvp, i know sandbox is freedom but CCP needs to apply things to make sure the veteran rich players are worth killing way more than noobs, i know actually they drops bigger modules. What i want is average players >5months or 1year old in the game, move more to low sec, i always find in low the godlike veterans in their holy ships, the chances to kill something are very low. Then the veterans would like to move more to null sec, not stay always in low sec space, i am not talking about the nolife beigs who actually are in a alliance of nullsec doing a lot of stuff daily, i talk about just normal people, kind of casual, they want to pewpew more too, the only way to do that is suicide low, be in a great gang, or wait until you can afford the holy pvp ship and skills. TLDR:** I am a casual player, only playing 3 hours day max, and not all the days. I just want to be able to live in low/null, with the reward/risk successfully balanced. Be able to buy and sell stuff without moving to the god damn main trade hubs. more hubs, more material in low sec, more carebears chance to survival. all that stuff.. I do not want to farm high sec, then burn money in low doing pewpew... excuse me if my english is not good enough. You hit the ball my friend.. I agreed with you.


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