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Justified Cause	Posted - 2011.08.29 03:17:00 - [301] Originally by: stevie rae Edited by: stevie rae on 28/08/2011 21:54:59 As soon as I saw zagdul posting about PvP I knew it would be full of lolz. The number of times I heard FA pilots say "We need more pilots or we can't have a roam(when we already had 10 in fleet) or the number of times I heard "We need x number of logistics or there is just no point in roaming" is astounding. Though honestly I know it is a bit scary that you won't always be able to flee if you don't have a 2:1 advantage over your opponent it will be ok! Local helps you find ganks or fights you can easily win. It also means you can run away if you see your opponent has equal numbers. It kills PvP and helps the "risk free blob" play style many 0.0 alliances use. If local gets switched to delayed mode I think we will see 0.0 populations drop as people who are too scared to really fight flee back to highsec. Not sure if this would end in a good situation for eve sub wise but none of us can really know that unless it happens. I don't see adding effort to scouting as a bad thing. It will make black ops possible and make cloaking actually allow you to hide. While maybe other intel tools will need to be added (radar/improved Dscan/others I havn't thought of) I don't see switching local to delayed "killing PVP" as so many 0.0 dwellers seem to. Edit: my shoddy typing skills You think x amount of logi was bad. In widot, gata*** didn't leave without 7 logi and 4 recons
Catheryn Martobi	Posted - 2011.08.29 07:15:00 - [302] Originally by: Mara Rinn Originally by: Corvus Dove Removing local would lower the number of gatecamps as it would no longer be necessary to sit on a gate to be able to hit a target. You would be able to catch them at various points in the system. Removing local would increase the number of gate camps as it would be necessary to sit on a gate to know who is entering your system. Exactly, and no body is going to do that. Mara is right you know. The point of a gatecamp isn't to keep people out of your space. That's impossible. The point is to catch scoutless players unaware and bend them over a barrel. No local means you have an easier time of catching players unaware of your presence.
Aelius Caldari Mnemonic Enterprises Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2011.08.29 07:51:00 - [303] Edited by: Aelius on 29/08/2011 07:51:26 Originally by: Mara Rinn Originally by: Corvus Dove Removing local would lower the number of gatecamps as it would no longer be necessary to sit on a gate to be able to hit a target. You would be able to catch them at various points in the system. Removing local would increase the number of gate camps as it would be necessary to sit on a gate to know who is entering your system. yeah yeah... good luck gate camping every gate and WH on your alliance territory. I tend to repeat myself when i say that local DOES NOT PROMOTE PVP, IT'S A TOOL TO AVOID IT ___________________________________________ Hilmar in his childhood Please ensure your signature is within the allowed size of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24,000 bytes. Navigator
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.08.29 12:26:00 - [304] Originally by: Aelius Originally by: Cearain Edited by: Cearain on 26/08/2011 14:08:53 Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Cearain So we get: 4.17 kills per pilot low sec 4.6 kills per pilot null sec and 1.65 kills per pilot wh Its clear that wormholes aren't the place to go for pvp. Do these facts have any effect on your opinion? No because people dont pvp in WH because of the fact that you cannot have a quick roam then go home. That is one reason. But the worm holes are rigt there in many systems. Solo roamers and small gangs could easilly jump in and see whats happening and jump out. But then there is the other problem. No local. Most pvp roamers (especially solo) don't want to have to waste a high slot to fit a probe launcher to their ship in order to simply see if anyone is even there. They don't want to waste time scanning down systems just to find out no one is even there. Finding pvp is hard enough with local. Very few people on a pvp roam want the extra hassle of not having a local to tell them if anyone is even in the system. 1st- You don't need a probe to see if someone is in system, just use your D-Scan (if the system is big warp to planets and D-Scan). This is even better because you don't want to alarm anyone by popping probes in space. First you D-Scan possible targets and narrow them down without being seen... then you use probes for the minimum time possible to avoid detection. 2nd- As you see by the above, if i want to find PVP i do it quietly, simply because PVP in EVE is rarely consensual, because this is not a consensual PVP game where you have arenas, where everyone PVPs without the risk of losing stuff (ships/modules). Clearly you or don't know EVE or your urge to find PVP is a lie and what you really want is to avoid it. Because you CAN find PVP without local, but you CAN'T escape PVP without it According to battleclinic you were on 118 killmails since 2005! If that is anything close to accurate you should not be telling people how to find fights quickly. Warping to different celestials to use dscan just find out the system is empty (or worse just to find out you scanned down a friendly) is an even bigger waste of time. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.08.29 12:28:00 - [305] Edited by: Cearain on 29/08/2011 12:28:40 Originally by: Cearain I will try to break this down as much as I can. For the sake of argument lets say I agree with many anti-local peoples claims: 1)removing local will increase the risk of engaging in pvp. (Specifically you will have an increased risk of getting blobbed.) 2)removing local will increase the chances of being able to gank a carebear that is in low or null sec. What effect will this have? Consider the first point. Do you think increasing the risk (especially the risk of getting blobbed) will make an already risk adverse group more likely to engage in that activity? Eve pvp is already hard enough to find. The problem is the playerbase is risk adverse as it is. Increasing the chances that you will lose your ship to a sensless blobbing will not increase the pvp. Now consider the second point. Do you think this will drive more people to do missions/industry in low sec and null sec or fewer? Is it better to have more or fewer people in pvp areas of new eden? Lets say you are going to make your isk in low sec or null sec anyway. You will now have to constantly click on your d scanner making it even more of a hassle to earn your isk. Are you going to value and protect that harder to earn isk more or less? If you are going to value and protect that harder to earn isk more are you more likely or less likely to engage in even higher risk pvp? I see no anti-local people want to address the questions I ask in this post. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Grarr Dexx Amarr Kumovi The G0dfathers	Posted - 2011.08.29 13:01:00 - [306] 0.0 security. Zero point zero percent security rating. Hell, most systems even have a NEGATIVE security status. You're not supposed to be safe.
Shadowsword The Rough Riders Ares Protectiva	Posted - 2011.08.29 13:25:00 - [307] Originally by: Grarr Dexx 0.0 security. Zero point zero percent security rating. Hell, most systems even have a NEGATIVE security status. You're not supposed to be safe. The thing is, 0.0 dwellers are supposed to be able to make a living out of it, and they won't if they get popped three times a day. I'm okay with the whole risk vs reward theory, but there is a point where too much risk will prevent you from reaping rewards, however big they might be. And then there's the whole "making your own home, your own" concept to take into account. One thing a lot of people forget is that 0.0 areas that are considered "safe", are safe only because a lot of people have sweated a lot to make it so. It's not a state of things that have been served to them on a platter. ------------------------------------------
Thornat	Posted - 2011.08.29 13:38:00 - [308] Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Grarr Dexx 0.0 security. Zero point zero percent security rating. Hell, most systems even have a NEGATIVE security status. You're not supposed to be safe. The thing is, 0.0 dwellers are supposed to be able to make a living out of it, and they won't if they get popped three times a day. I'm okay with the whole risk vs reward theory, but there is a point where too much risk will prevent you from reaping rewards, however big they might be. And then there's the whole "making your own home, your own" concept to take into account. One thing a lot of people forget is that 0.0 areas that are considered "safe", are safe only because a lot of people have sweated a lot to make it so. It's not a state of things that have been served to them on a platter. Agreed. I find 0.0 Dwellers (Sov Owning Corps) are accussed of being lazy and having it "easy" which is insane to me, and probobly is to anyone else who has ever actually tried to claim some space. Its the hardest, most riskiest and most costly thing you can do in Eve. Any rewards you gain from actually owning 0.0 space and being out their is quickly overshadowed by the insane costs. People don't make ISK in 0.0, but in the same token, they aren't out their fighting for space to earn ISK. They are out their because its fun to be out their. Its exciting, ****s happening. The game is interesting out their. Thats what people who never go out their don't understand.
Aelius Caldari Mnemonic Enterprises Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2011.08.29 16:54:00 - [309] Edited by: Aelius on 29/08/2011 16:56:35 Originally by: Cearain According to battleclinic you were on 118 killmails since 2005! If that is anything close to accurate you should not be telling people how to find fights quickly. Warping to different celestials to use dscan just find out the system is empty (or worse just to find out you scanned down a friendly) is an even bigger waste of time. Yes because killmails are everything in EVE. Yes, with local you can find right away if there are targets in system. The problem comes after when you try to get them to fight if the odds are not in their favor. OFC you can always enter a system alone with 10 hostiles in local... and try to stay alive... i mean no... ofc you will kill them all because of your uber killmails record... right?! I bet you wont run with the tail between your legs, because you want PVP. And D-Scan?! Hell no! Thats for "118 kills since 2005" persons... I think your corp name says it all "The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION" ___________________________________________ Hilmar in his childhood Please ensure your signature is within the allowed size of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24,000 bytes. Navigator
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.08.29 17:01:00 - [310] This happened Saturday. In the static C2 (had a high hole, was using it) and notice near the hole on DScan there's a ship. OK, I'm in my scanner on this char, drop combats and get it to 100%, it's a destroyer salvaging a combat site he ran apparently in a different ship. OK, fine... warp over to go look at him for lulz (warp to 100). Warp there and cloak... he still hasn't noticed me. Okay... get on my combat alt, fly into the static and warp to 20 off this guy in my drake. He's still toodling along, salvaging like I'm not there. More . Warp to a wreck he's approaching (was over 150K away), target, tackle and start firing... finally he starts trying to get away. This should never have happened. This was a pilot in from high sec so reliant on local that even with me visible on the overview he didn't realize I was there. This is why local needs to go... it's dragging the intelligence of the community way, way down. Monocles are so two weeks ago. Sparkle ships are the future!

Aelius Caldari Mnemonic Enterprises Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2011.08.29 17:21:00 - [311] Edited by: Aelius on 29/08/2011 17:21:27 Originally by: Ingvar Angst This happened Saturday. In the static C2 (had a high hole, was using it) and notice near the hole on DScan there's a ship. OK, I'm in my scanner on this char, drop combats and get it to 100%, it's a destroyer salvaging a combat site he ran apparently in a different ship. OK, fine... warp over to go look at him for lulz (warp to 100). Warp there and cloak... he still hasn't noticed me. Okay... get on my combat alt, fly into the static and warp to 20 off this guy in my drake. He's still toodling along, salvaging like I'm not there. More . Warp to a wreck he's approaching (was over 150K away), target, tackle and start firing... finally he starts trying to get away. This should never have happened. This was a pilot in from high sec so reliant on local that even with me visible on the overview he didn't realize I was there. This is why local needs to go... it's dragging the intelligence of the community way, way down. NO! Cearain "wants" to PVP and he needs the local. Please teach him your mojo! How the hell did you managed that?! Have PVP without local?! OMG!!! ___________________________________________ Hilmar in his childhood Please ensure your signature is within the allowed size of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24,000 bytes. Navigator
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.08.29 17:43:00 - [312] Originally by: Aelius Edited by: Aelius on 29/08/2011 16:56:35 Originally by: Cearain According to battleclinic you were on 118 killmails since 2005! If that is anything close to accurate you should not be telling people how to find fights quickly. Warping to different celestials to use dscan just find out the system is empty (or worse just to find out you scanned down a friendly) is an even bigger waste of time. Yes because killmails are everything in EVE. I'm not saying they are everything. But they are an indication of how much you pvp or at least how successfull you are at finding fights. If you barely have over 100 kills after 6 years of this game, I don't think you are the one to talk to about how to find pvp. Getting your 1 kill per month is not the pace many want to go at. There are allot of people with a much better record of solo and small gang pvp telling you no local will adversely effect small gang and solo pvp. Why don't you listen to any of them? Why don't you try to think through the questions I posted? -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.08.29 17:50:00 - [313] I'm not sure how much intelligence it takes to spam a d-scan button. Imagine an iq test. People set up a game where you sit there and click a button over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and overand over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. At the end of this session the people giving the test ask the participant: How would you like to buy this game? Now do you think the people who buy the game are going to have a higher iq than those who say no thanks? Originally by: Ingvar Angst This happened Saturday. In the static C2 (had a high hole, was using it) and notice near the hole on DScan there's a ship. OK, I'm in my scanner on this char, drop combats and get it to 100%, it's a destroyer salvaging a combat site he ran apparently in a different ship. OK, fine... warp over to go look at him for lulz (warp to 100). Warp there and cloak... he still hasn't noticed me. Okay... get on my combat alt, fly into the static and warp to 20 off this guy in my drake. He's still toodling along, salvaging like I'm not there. More . Warp to a wreck he's approaching (was over 150K away), target, tackle and start firing... finally he starts trying to get away. This should never have happened. This was a pilot in from high sec so reliant on local that even with me visible on the overview he didn't realize I was there. This is why local needs to go... it's dragging the intelligence of the community way, way down. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.08.29 17:57:00 - [314] Apparently, Caerain, it takes more intelligence than people are displaying. What happened Saturday should have been this... Destroyer pilot <click> sees ship on DScan, and, not being fit for combat, warps to the hole and leaves. The End. You're mocking user action required for intel. You want it all to be all warmed up and hand delivered in a nice sterile bottle for you to suckle on. The nice thing with DScan is that you learn to click it absent-mindedly and you're mind gets trained for "different" to show up on the scan result. You look at different, you see the different, you react. That's when you're sitting in one place doing some activity. You can also use it as an effective hunting tool to find PvP, especially if you have your covops going. You'll be able to find PvP opportunities that local completely denies you simply by giving away your presence. Monocles are so two weeks ago. Sparkle ships are the future!
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.08.29 18:09:00 - [315] Edited by: Cearain on 29/08/2011 18:10:07 Ingvar I know how to use dscan. It can be useful in combination with local. I am not mocking people who use dscan. I am pointing out that creating the game to revolve around constantly clicking that button would make it a pretty mind numbing game to play. I doubt many intelligent people would care to play it. Local does not spoon feed you all the intel you need. It does however at least let you know if 1) if there is a huge blob in the system and 2) if you are in a system with someone you may want to attack. It does not tell you what ship they are in or where in the system they are. It just tells you there is somone there. That way you don't have to spend the time warping from belt to belt only to find the system is empty. Like I said before there are people in eve who are actually looking to pvp against something other than an industrials or a destroyer with its high slots full of salvagers. For those players removing local will all but ruin the game. Why don't you give the questions I asked earlier a shot? -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.08.29 18:21:00 - [316] Of course it spoon feeds you all the intel. You click on the guy in local, you have his corp, alliance, kill boards, etc. You get a ton of free intel simply by having his name. You can see if he regularly kills in blobs, showing he may be bait. You can see if he's an industrial carebear without a kill to his name. How can you claim to know anything at all about the game if you don't know this? You also over-emphasize DScan regarding the game. It wouldn't be the defining part of the game, simply one of the primary intel gathering tools there for you to use or not (at your peril). Blobs show up on it. Single ships show up on it. However, if you want the rest of the free intel, you'd need to get off your duff and go earn it. Simple as that. Eh... what question are you refering to? Monocles are so two weeks ago. Sparkle ships are the future!
Welsige Gallente Ad Vita Noctu Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.08.29 18:42:00 - [317] All I see is pvp griefers wanting to do more grief (cause warping a cloakie on a system and killing a miner isnt pvp in my book), wasnt the infinite logged cloackies 'locking' down systems enough. I pvp and loose my fair ammount of ships as it is. I really dont want to be clicking every seccond on d-scan while making isk for future pvp. That's insane. I dont want to stop playing because my finger is hurting of insane every seccond clicking. I dont see this enabling more small gang warfare, cause reports benefit it, i see it only benefiting gankers wanting quick and easy kills.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.08.29 18:53:00 - [318] If clicking DScan is enough to hurt your finger you have more things to worry about than losing a ship in Eve. It's surprising how many people couldn't cut it in a wormhole. It really is. You're missing a truly great Eve experience. Monocles are so two weeks ago. Sparkle ships are the future!
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.08.29 19:03:00 - [319] Originally by: Ingvar Angst Of course it spoon feeds you all the intel. You click on the guy in local, you have his corp, alliance, kill boards, etc. You get a ton of free intel simply by having his name. You can see if he regularly kills in blobs, showing he may be bait. You can see if he's an industrial carebear without a kill to his name. How can you claim to know anything at all about the game if you don't know this? You also over-emphasize DScan regarding the game. It wouldn't be the defining part of the game, simply one of the primary intel gathering tools there for you to use or not (at your peril). Blobs show up on it. Single ships show up on it. However, if you want the rest of the free intel, you'd need to get off your duff and go earn it. Simple as that. Eh... what question are you refering to? We just play the game differently. I almost never even bother to see what corp the guy is in so long as he is a target. I simply see if the ship he is flying is within my engagment envelope. If it is I try to find him. If its not I move to the next system. Local does not give you his killboard. Its true, you can, if you are very risk adverse and have lots of time, see the person in local, open up a browser and surf over to the killboard to try to search and study his killboard if you wish. I almost never look them up on the kill boards. Its usually not worth the time and it is a distracting hassle. Basically I'm willing to take some risks in this game and just have fun. Just because someone flew in a blob last time they were out doesn't mean they are doing that now. From local I do start to recognize people and if they are always in a blob. So if I get blobbed a few times I learn that way. Doing that of course means you use your rl intelligence and memory and experience. Instead of a button to push and leave the rest to dumb luck. Also Its not that people canÆt "cut it" in a wormhole. ItÆs just that they like to use their head when they pvp instead of just hoping their blob is bigger than the other guys blob. They also donÆt like to waste time scanning down empty systems. Why are you ignoring the questions I put to the anti-local crowd? -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Zenith Intaki Gallente Zenith Intaki Tech	Posted - 2011.08.29 19:05:00 - [320] Edited by: Zenith Intaki on 29/08/2011 19:06:08 Leave local channel the way it is in W-space to all sec spaces. Remove the instant list for good and in all sec spaces. Solution is that simple, and being used in W-space and it's purely awesome! ALSO, REMOVE D-SCAN!

Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.08.29 19:29:00 - [321] Originally by: Cearain Originally by: Ingvar Angst Of course it spoon feeds you all the intel. You click on the guy in local, you have his corp, alliance, kill boards, etc. You get a ton of free intel simply by having his name. You can see if he regularly kills in blobs, showing he may be bait. You can see if he's an industrial carebear without a kill to his name. How can you claim to know anything at all about the game if you don't know this? You also over-emphasize DScan regarding the game. It wouldn't be the defining part of the game, simply one of the primary intel gathering tools there for you to use or not (at your peril). Blobs show up on it. Single ships show up on it. However, if you want the rest of the free intel, you'd need to get off your duff and go earn it. Simple as that. Eh... what question are you refering to? We just play the game differently. I almost never even bother to see what corp the guy is in so long as he is a target. I simply see if the ship he is flying is within my engagment envelope. If it is I try to find him. If its not I move to the next system. Local does not give you his killboard. Its true, you can, if you are very risk adverse and have lots of time, see the person in local, open up a browser and surf over to the killboard to try to search and study his killboard if you wish. I almost never look them up on the kill boards. Its usually not worth the time and it is a distracting hassle. Basically I'm willing to take some risks in this game and just have fun. Just because someone flew in a blob last time they were out doesn't mean they are doing that now. From local I do start to recognize people and if they are always in a blob. So if I get blobbed a few times I learn that way. Doing that of course means you use your rl intelligence and memory and experience. Instead of a button to push and leave the rest to dumb luck. Also Its not that people canÆt "cut it" in a wormhole. ItÆs just that they like to use their head when they pvp instead of just hoping their blob is bigger than the other guys blob. They also donÆt like to waste time scanning down empty systems. Why are you ignoring the questions I put to the anti-local crowd? Like I said... spoon-fed intel. You don't want to do anything fo rit... just blindly fly from belt to belt until you find him. (Hint: Dscan can even speed that process up). Um... blobs in wormholes? Really? You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you? Dumb luck using DScan? You know it gives you all ships withing 14AU and you can use it to narrow down their location as well, right? You know, so you're not guessing what belt they're in using dumb luck? With local, you run around or run away. Without local, you hunt. Monocles are so two weeks ago. Sparkle ships are the future!
Welsige Gallente Ad Vita Noctu Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.08.29 19:43:00 - [322] Originally by: Ingvar Angst If clicking DScan is enough to hurt your finger you have more things to worry about than losing a ship in Eve. It's surprising how many people couldn't cut it in a wormhole. It really is. You're missing a truly great Eve experience. Man... i use dscan. I dont want to use it every second. There's a diference and by whats being sugested playing eve is bound to be the most dull experience ever for activities that are already boring enough. No matter what is done, whats being proposed put too much power on the hunter and leave the prey in a very bad position game wise as the cloaking devices do. By game wise i mean not having fun by having to play the click frenzy dscan. Imo this pretty much will kill industry/mining in null, cause i doubt players will want to click click click endless and in the end it will payout to live in high sec. You can say "oh carebears crying'. Well, carebears can say in return that griefers are crying too. Dont never forget you need the carebears, cause thay fuel the markets.
Ingvar Angst Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United	Posted - 2011.08.29 19:51:00 - [323] Just FYI, I am, for the most part, a carebear. This is my main, and he's industrial. The combat alt is developing nicely though. I still think the simplest solution of all and offers the best of all worlds... 1. When a ship cloaks, the disappear from local and, in exchange, cannot see local. You disappear but cannot see who's in local either. This allows a cloaked ship to truly be cloaked and also requires it to actively seek out intel if it wants to get any. 2. When you decloak there's a 30 to 60 second delay in lighting a cyno. This prevents the invisible person from dropping a fleet on top of someone before they have a chance to see you and respond. Just these two changes could do wonders for null, imo, and best of all... nothing to break current wormhole mechanics. Monocles are so two weeks ago. Sparkle ships are the future!
Welsige Gallente Ad Vita Noctu Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.08.29 20:02:00 - [324] The only instance i see they removing local working is IF they provide better tools to tackle the space surounding the ship. Dscan dosent cut it. Clicking dosent cut it. There must be a tool that pings the space and report usefull and organized data. Otherwise unless you are pvp'ing I would see no other use of null as far as indy goes, they would be too exposed. I am curious about wormholes, but really dont care about them.
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2011.08.29 21:15:00 - [325] Originally by: Ingvar Angst Like I said... spoon-fed intel. You don't want to do anything fo rit.... I suppose you think I should have to push a button. Is that the price I should pay? That seems to be the big concern. Players in eve are not required to do enough button mashing. Originally by: Ingvar Angst Um... blobs in wormholes? Really? You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you? . The amount of force is relative. If you have 5 BCs against an assault frigate the AF was blobbed. Originally by: Ingvar Angst Dumb luck using DScan? You know it gives you all ships withing 14AU and you can use it to narrow down their location as well, right? You know, so you're not guessing what belt they're in using dumb luck? With local, you run around or run away. Without local, you hunt. You should learn the game mechanics. Dscan does not show all ships within 14 au. It doesn't give you cloaked ships or ships that are cloaked due to jumping in from a gate. Why must you pretend to tell everyone about how mechanics will boost or hurt pvp? I don't go in threads about industry and pretend to tell everyone what changes should be made there. Also now I guess you can't answer the questions I posted for the anti-local group. I guess you want to pretend they aren't there. But it just makes you look bad. If you think about the questions I ask you will be able to tell no local will reduce the amount of pvp and increase the amount of blobbing in eve. -Cearain Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1
Just Lilly	Posted - 2011.08.29 21:43:00 - [326] No local, can be kind of creepy, but I like it
Ephemeron Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2011.08.29 21:59:00 - [327] It's safe to say that any real nerf to local will come with scanner improvements. I'm certain that even the least competent game designers at CCP will not force people to press the Scan button every second. Local needs to go, scanner needs to be improved, and range limits imposed.
Signal11th	Posted - 2011.08.30 08:02:00 - [328] Edited by: Signal11th on 30/08/2011 08:04:58 Originally by: Cearain Edited by: Cearain on 29/08/2011 12:28:40 Originally by: Cearain I will try to break this down as much as I can. For the sake of argument lets say I agree with many anti-local peoples claims: 1)removing local will increase the risk of engaging in pvp. (Specifically you will have an increased risk of getting blobbed.) 2)removing local will increase the chances of being able to gank a carebear that is in low or null sec. What effect will this have? Consider the first point. Do you think increasing the risk (especially the risk of getting blobbed) will make an already risk adverse group more likely to engage in that activity? Eve pvp is already hard enough to find. The problem is the playerbase is risk adverse as it is. Increasing the chances that you will lose your ship to a sensless blobbing will not increase the pvp. Now consider the second point. Do you think this will drive more people to do missions/industry in low sec and null sec or fewer? Is it better to have more or fewer people in pvp areas of new eden? Lets say you are going to make your isk in low sec or null sec anyway. You will now have to constantly click on your d scanner making it even more of a hassle to earn your isk. Are you going to value and protect that harder to earn isk more or less? If you are going to value and protect that harder to earn isk more are you more likely or less likely to engage in even higher risk pvp? I see no anti-local people want to address the questions I ask in this post. Already answered some of those questions in a previous post.
Signal11th	Posted - 2011.08.30 08:04:00 - [329] Edited by: Signal11th on 30/08/2011 08:04:32 Yowzer double postaroony!
Aelius Caldari Mnemonic Enterprises Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2011.08.30 09:04:00 - [330] Originally by: Cearain Also now I guess you can't answer the questions I posted for the anti-local group. I guess you want to pretend they aren't there. But it just makes you look bad. If you think about the questions I ask you will be able to tell no local will reduce the amount of pvp and increase the amount of blobbing in eve. Simple answer. How many 0.0 alliances have the manpower to blob every system they own, expecting to be hit by a small gang that may or may not come? Nowadays with local asa they spot your small gang in local it's just a matter of time before they blob you. They intel channel will read "hostile gang spotted in local at X system, ASSEMBLE THE BLOB" I presume you are an intelligent person Cearain. Would you engage someone if local says you are outnumbered 3 to 1, or would you run? Without local you never know who exactly is in system, thus it all comes down to tactics, and as you say not many people are proficient with D-Scan or can be hassle to click it. You can turn that to your advantage to set up ambushes to a superior force. Divide and conquer. Unpredictable PVP outcome is much more fun. I will give you an example mate. While running a sleeper site on a C5 using spider Domis and DPS BS, our corp got probed down by some 0.0 folk without we noticing. Not soon after we got jumped by a fleet 5 times ours. We reacted returned fire, hold for a while and as we were better fitted to coop with the sleeper damage and with the help of them (sleepers changed targets) we managed to kill 3/4 of their fleet before all our ships went up in flames. Although we lost all our ships it was good fight, with a better outcome than we could ever expected. Now if there was local in WH this would never had happen because we would warp out when we saw such a large fleet coming to gank us. ___________________________________________ Hilmar in his childhood Please ensure your signature is within the allowed size of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24,000 bytes. Navigator



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