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Harener
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Posted - 2011.08.20 09:56:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 20/08/2011 09:53:47
Originally by: Harener It is impossible to prevent cloakers from entering your space and logging of in it,
Another lesson for you: ôareaö ≠ ôspaceö. So: stop sucking and secure your area.
Quote: it is also impossible to prevent cloakers from warping to your location and pointing you
No, it's not, for the simple reason that you can quite easily prevent them from pointing you.
Nope, impossible to secure "area" of cloakers. And again, no you can't prevent them from pointing you, simple fact is you have to re-align which takes time and NPCs can also point you.
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baltec1
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Posted - 2011.08.20 10:02:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Harener
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 20/08/2011 09:53:47
Originally by: Harener It is impossible to prevent cloakers from entering your space and logging of in it,
Another lesson for you: ôareaö ≠ ôspaceö. So: stop sucking and secure your area.
Quote: it is also impossible to prevent cloakers from warping to your location and pointing you
No, it's not, for the simple reason that you can quite easily prevent them from pointing you.
Nope, impossible to secure "area" of cloakers. And again, no you can't prevent them from pointing you, simple fact is you have to re-align which takes time and NPCs can also point you.
Kill the cloakers and the area becomes secure.
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Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.08.20 10:02:00 -
[183]
Edited by: Tippia on 20/08/2011 10:03:01
Originally by: Harener Nope, impossible to secure "area" of cloakers.
Again, you're showing your ignorance about basic functionality and game mechanics. Just decloak them.
<edit>That said, baltec1's solution is even betterà </edit>
Quote: And again, no you can't prevent them from pointing you.
And again, yes you can, just prep your area and/or fly with due amount of caution. Picking the right equipment will also help you.
It sounds more and more like you haven't actually tried to solve any of the problems you're facing and have just resigned to some imagined fate. Stop giving up so easily and you'll quickly notice that there is more you can do than you think. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
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Harener
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Posted - 2011.08.20 10:06:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 20/08/2011 10:03:01
Originally by: Harener Nope, impossible to secure "area" of cloakers.
Again, you're showing your ignorance about basic functionality and game mechanics. Just decloak them.
<edit>That said, baltec1's solution is even betterà </edit>
Quote: And again, no you can't prevent them from pointing you.
And again, yes you can, just prep your area and/or fly with due amount of caution. Picking the right equipment will also help you.
It sounds more and more like you haven't actually tried to solve any of the problems you're facing and have just resigned to some imagined fate. Stop giving up so easily and you'll quickly notice that there is more you can do than you think.
More ad hominems, keep it up. You can't kill an afk cloaker, since they will pick engagements they can only win. Basic game mechanics, you see. So your alt "baltec1" is also wrong in the fact that you can't bait them, since they are there for weeks at a time.
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Wu Jiaqiu
Minmatar Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.08.20 10:08:00 -
[185]
Local in Low-Sec. Delayed local in Null.
End.
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baltec1
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Posted - 2011.08.20 10:15:00 -
[186]
Edited by: baltec1 on 20/08/2011 10:15:01
Originally by: Harener
More ad hominems, keep it up. You can't kill an afk cloaker, since they will pick engagements they can only win. Basic game mechanics, you see. So your alt "baltec1" is also wrong in the fact that you can't bait them, since they are there for weeks at a time.
Me and tippia dont agree on everything.
Also this
All you need is the right bait and you soon find out if they are AFK or not.
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Harener
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Posted - 2011.08.20 10:17:00 -
[187]
Originally by: baltec1 Edited by: baltec1 on 20/08/2011 10:15:01
Originally by: Harener
More ad hominems, keep it up. You can't kill an afk cloaker, since they will pick engagements they can only win. Basic game mechanics, you see. So your alt "baltec1" is also wrong in the fact that you can't bait them, since they are there for weeks at a time.
Me and tippia dont agree on everything.
Also this
All you need is the right bait and you soon find out if they are AFK or not.
It is not a matter of whether they are afk or not, it is that they could become active at any time. You could bait them for 10 hours, and nothing might happen. But the hour or two after that they may become active.
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baltec1
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Posted - 2011.08.20 10:21:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Harener
It is not a matter of whether they are afk or not, it is that they could become active at any time. You could bait them for 10 hours, and nothing might happen. But the hour or two after that they may become active.
If I can be bothered to guard my home systems so can you. The great thing about no local is you wont know they are even there so there is no point in AFK cloaking while you go to work.
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Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.08.20 10:21:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Harener More ad hominems, keep it up.
No. Ad hominem = your argument is invalid because you are ignorant (or some other personal characteristic, as opposed to because the argument itself is erroneous). What I'm saying is pretty much the opposite: by employing an erroneous argument, you display a fair amount of ignorance about the issue.
And if you don't like these types of arguments, maybe you shouldn't have started down that particular path to begin withà
Quote: You can't kill an afk cloaker
àbecause there is no way to locate him, but on the other hand there is no need to locate him since he can't do anything, what with being AFK and all. Once he stops being an AFK cloaker and actually attacks, you can kill him just fine.
Quote: they will pick engagements they can only win
So make sure they can't win it. Or (for even more fun) make him think he can win it, then kill him.
Quote: So your alt "baltec1"
Ah, the old "I am being attacked from more than one front, so they must all be alts" argument. Yeah, no. The problem here is that you're just plain old wrong, and more than one person has noticed this fact. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
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Harener
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Posted - 2011.08.20 10:26:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Harener More ad hominems, keep it up.
No. Ad hominem = your argument is invalid because you are ignorant (or some other personal characteristic, as opposed to because the argument itself is erroneous). What I'm saying is pretty much the opposite: by employing an erroneous argument, you display a fair amount of ignorance about the issue.
No. You have no valid arguments so you resort to things like calling me "ignorant", as you can see here.
Originally by: Tippia àbecause there is no way to locate him, but on the other hand there is no need to locate him since he can't do anything, what with being AFK and all. Once he stops being an AFK cloaker and actually attacks, you can kill him just fine.
Actually, no, a ratter cannot kill them. Of course you can't bait 24/7.
Originally by: Tippia So make sure they can't win it. Or (for even more fun) make him think he can win it, then kill him.
Again, they are there for weeks at a time, you cannot bait 24/7 for weeks.
Originally by: Tippia Ah, the old "I am being attacked from more than one front, so they must all be alts" argument. Yeah, no. The problem here is that you're just plain old wrong, and more than one person has noticed this fact.
Which is ironic considering all you do is call me "ignorant" and "wrong", and other such ad hominems.
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chekerss
Minmatar Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
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Posted - 2011.08.20 10:27:00 -
[191]
Edited by: chekerss on 20/08/2011 10:28:37 Edited by: chekerss on 20/08/2011 10:28:11 I'd love local to be removed if they could add an effective compromise.
I'd like to see some sort of "scanner" added to the overview where it would show general information about how many ships are in the system outside of the local grid. Something with a great deal more generalized information like how many ships are powered/in use/moving out there. You could even have it give less information and just give out the mass of the ships instead of the number. It would be a great deal better if it did not show cloaked ships.
That's a good compromise to giving some information about how much is in a system but not giving out who and what is in the system. This would open up a lot more of an opportunity for different tactics and keeping fresh the combat in null sec. Getting rid of d-scan completley in this scenario would be great and add a great deal to the whole combat scanning profession.
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Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.08.20 10:34:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Harener No. You have no valid arguments so you resort to things like calling me "ignorant", as you can see here.
Aside from the fact that I have presented plenty of arguments, that doesn't make it an ad hominem.
Quote: Actually, no, a ratter cannot kill them.
Sure he can. Shooting helps.
Quote: Again, they are there for weeks at a time, you cannot bait 24/7 for weeks.
And why on earth would you do that, even if you could? You bait when you bait, and if he's not AFK and bites, you reel him in.
Quote: Which is ironic considering all you do is call me "ignorant" and "wrong", and other such ad hominems.
And again: that's not an ad hominem. This is just you being ignorant about what the term actually means ù see above for the distinction. The reason I call you ignorant and wrong is because what you say is wrong, and this makes you seem ignorant. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
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baltec1
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Posted - 2011.08.20 10:35:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Harener
Which is ironic considering all you do is call me "ignorant" and "wrong", and other such ad hominems.
That tends to happen when you are both ignorant and wrong.
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Harener
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Posted - 2011.08.20 10:40:00 -
[194]
Edited by: Harener on 20/08/2011 10:41:47
Originally by: Tippia Aside from the fact that I have presented plenty of arguments, that doesn't make it an ad hominem.
Actually, saying "you don't know how EVE works", "stop sucking", etc. are, in fact, ad hominems.
Originally by: Tippia Sure he can. Shooting helps.
Arguing a PVE ship can take on a PVP gang. Nope.
Originally by: Tippia And why on earth would you do that, even if you could? You bait when you bait, and if he's not AFK and bites, you reel him in.
"You bait when you bait"? No really? The thing is, you can't bait for weeks, 24/7.
Originally by: Tippia And again: that's not an ad hominem. This is just you being ignorant about what the term actually means ù see above for the distinction. The reason I call you ignorant and wrong is because what you say is wrong, and this makes you seem ignorant.
I just quoted what you said above, which disproves that, and you calling me ignorant yet failing to provide evidence that stands up to arguments is indeed that.
edit: it has been over an hour, and I have to log now. Let's do this again sometime
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Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.08.20 10:51:00 -
[195]
Edited by: Tippia on 20/08/2011 10:53:00
Originally by: Harener Actually, saying "you don't know how EVE works", "stop sucking", etc. are, in fact, ad hominems.
No. Those are just jabs at you, based on things you say that are at odds with what you can do in the game.
Again: an ad hominem is when I dismiss your argument based on some characteristic in your person (shoe size, favourite ice cream flavour, average yearly exposure to rain), rather than dismissing your argument because of flaws in the argument itself. I'm doing the opposite: I'm dismissing you because of a characteristic in your argument (most notably, it being wrong) ù different thing.
Quote: Arguing a PVE ship can take on a PVP gang.
See, the problem here is that you keep moving the goal posts. It was once an AFK cloaker; now it's a gang.
Quote: The thing is, you can't bait for weeks, 24/7.
And again: why on earth would you do that, even if you could? Or, put another way, the thing is, you don't need to bait for weeks, 23.5/7.
Quote: I just quoted what you said above
Referring to what, exactly?
Quote: which disproves that
Nope.
Quote: and you calling me ignorant yet failing to provide evidence that stands up to arguments is indeed that.
Nope. And I have provided plenty of ôevidenceö that you have chosen to either ignore or try to disprove through the use of obviously false claims. So it still largely sounds that you've given up without actually trying to improve your situation. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
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Wu Tarot
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Posted - 2011.08.20 11:44:00 -
[196]
Edited by: Wu Tarot on 20/08/2011 11:47:46 Edited by: Wu Tarot on 20/08/2011 11:45:41
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Harener Then why would I "Learn to D-scan" when it wouldn't do anything to prevent gankers?
Because even cloakers must find you before they can attack you.
I dont have a cloak.. you cant use the scanners while cloaked?
Originally by: Kogh Ayon
Originally by: Harener
Originally by: Mallak Azaria
Originally by: Zagdul Removing local is the most ******ED idea CCP has ever come up with.
I stopped reading here. Learn to D-scan.
How do you dscan cloakies?
He is cheating
so you report ppl that cloak? lol Id love to see the GM response on that ticket
"Youre... reporting someone for using an in game item?"
Quote:
I wish CCP would make high sec stations destroyable"
youre one of those guys that kills questgivers in WoW huh? also I bet you wish theyd make CONCORD completely tankable so you can get yer rocks off killing noobs
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Russell Casey
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Posted - 2011.08.20 13:53:00 -
[197]
People can't find fights because of local. Nobody will go against you until they've put together a proper gang that outnumbers yours 3 to 1 with ECM and a cyno-drop on standby. This takes hours by the way while the FC tries to figure out what he's up against and put together a good counter-fleet in addition to it just being ridiculously larger than the other guy.
See, people hate to lose, and in EVE losing hurts. We claim it's harsh and that we're better than WoW players because we risk all our stuff when we fight, but we're not any better. We hide, gank, and run away just as much as they do. And we grind, oh Lord, do we grind.
People don't want to fight until they're "good and ready" and good and ready means "auto-win." Arguably even these roamers are guilty because they're basically hoping to run into some poor sod who's jumping through the wrong gate at the wrong time or got up to use the crapper when the gang was called out in intel or hit a nasty patch of lag and didn't realize the dock command on his third hulk didn't go through.
Anyway, don't fret my little bears, locals not going away and it's not getting delayed. CCP only ever nerfs piracy, they don't buff it. That's why it's fun for me.
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Mutnin
Amarr Mutineers
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Posted - 2011.08.20 13:59:00 -
[198]
Originally by: baltec1 Because using the D-Scan is impossible
Noo, because wasting 5 to 8 mins in every system I travel though by having to warp to all the belts & planets off my scanner is a total waste of time. Even more wasted time figuring out if the ship on scan is actually piloted or just floating empty in a POS.
The funny thing is many of us have asked for a buff to low sec. I can just about bet you anything that if null sec goes "no local" most gangs will go to low sec for their PVP leave null with even less occupants.
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Nieero
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Posted - 2011.08.20 15:24:00 -
[199]
Anatomy of this thread: 10% discussion of how local influences small gang pvp 90% future life of the 0.0 carebear
Also op is wrong. I can't be arsed to repeat all the valid arguments only to be confronted with a bunch of platitutes. Furthermore there's a lot of people who seem to have missed BFF's 0.0 blogs.
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Wu Tarot
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Posted - 2011.08.20 15:36:00 -
[200]
0.0 carebear? never heard THAT term before... all the carebears live in Hisec lol http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1559306&page=3#71 CCP read the comments, remember SWG. They thought THEY knew what was best for THEIR game too........ |
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Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.08.20 15:50:00 -
[201]
local should be at the discretion of the sov holder.
high sec, local stays same, low sec and npc 0.0 just turn it to delayed and give sov holders the rights to configure down to linking it to standing as to effects, bad standing meaning no local not even delayed that could make for interesting times. CCP Shadow 24/06/2010 17:30:40: We do not have plans to go microtransaction with EVE. October 2010 CSM Virtual Goods unveiled
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Wu Tarot
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Posted - 2011.08.20 16:20:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Brainless Bimbo local should be at the discretion of the sov holder.
high sec, local stays same, low sec and npc 0.0 just turn it to delayed and give sov holders the rights to configure down to linking it to standing as to effects, bad standing meaning no local not even delayed that could make for interesting times.
I say no cause thats whats it called system defending itself and not us defensing system? cause thered be no way to sneak in unless youve gotten blue with them. I LIKE the idea of no local in 0.0. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1559306&page=3#71 CCP read the comments, remember SWG. They thought THEY knew what was best for THEIR game too........ |
Herpes Sweatrash
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Posted - 2011.08.21 14:55:00 -
[203]
Improve probing mechanics so you make it only pick up ships that are piloted so with a deepspace probe you can pick up if there are people in system and not have to look at every ship at pos etc. That kind of thing imo along with delayed local would be awesome.
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Ikonz
Caldari Coristati
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Posted - 2011.08.21 15:12:00 -
[204]
where does it say that they want to remove local?
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Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2011.08.21 16:55:00 -
[205]
Edited by: Cearain on 21/08/2011 16:55:36
Originally by: Tippia And again, yes you can, just prep your area and/or fly with due amount of caution. .
Yep you'll need more work for pvp. And you'll need more caution. There is already too much of both in eve as it is.
No local will really make eve a horribly stupid game. -Cearain
Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1 |
Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2011.08.21 16:59:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Ikonz where does it say that they want to remove local?
In the csm minutes they said something about not having it due to incarna. They say they will replace it with something similar.
Its hard to see how this won't be a boost to blobbing. -Cearain
Make fw pvp not pve http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1 |
Signal11th
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Posted - 2011.08.21 23:44:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Cearain Edited by: Cearain on 21/08/2011 16:55:36
Originally by: Tippia And again, yes you can, just prep your area and/or fly with due amount of caution. .
Yep you'll need more work for pvp. And you'll need more caution. There is already too much of both in eve as it is.
No local will really make eve a horribly stupid game.
Nice to see you've backed up that ground breaking statement with plenty of evidence.
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Nematisu
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Posted - 2011.08.22 21:07:00 -
[208]
Edited by: Nematisu on 22/08/2011 21:07:35 Removing local = glorious. No more blobbing and thinking you're invincible... no more safing up as soon as you see someone enter local. The carebears will obviously not like this, but PvPers have to be happy about it. 0.0 is supposed to be lawless space, and as such there should be some *real* worry about flying there. W-space pvp is more fun because you never know what you're going to find, and it emphasized having great scouts / intel. No local in 0.0 will bring that same element.
"Removing local is a bad idea and the morons who make the claim that a delayed local, like in wormholes, is a good idea are dumb as they don't think about how unbalanced and boring null/low sec will be when/if they do."
-This is your opinion, and you're more than entitled to it. But I happen to think that W-space PvP is MUCH more entertaining.
As with every change, PvP tactics will need to evolve. I think it should be an interesting show.
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Sullen Skoung
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Posted - 2011.08.22 21:11:00 -
[209]
Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 22/08/2011 21:14:16
Originally by: Ikonz where does it say that they want to remove local?
Yeah my alt asked that like 3 times an never got answered
Oh the CSM cause theyre so ground breakingly in control of the game... CCP wouldnt release something for the game without putting it past them first right? Or ignore them completely when putting something into the game. They wouldnt do that either. CSM are there for a face saving measure. Theyre anti spin. Hell the CSM is a joke compared to the impossible tank they were made for in the first place lol -------- Dammit, they killed the post where Sreegs says personal attacks are against the rules. I wanted to lol at him for that |
Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.08.22 21:17:00 -
[210]
i only see yes and no's why not have both?
add more space with no local and new pirats?
add a i hub upgrade witch make local visible
Fix Black Op's |
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