Belligerent undesirables get out

Need helping finding the door?

Why is it that people think this game is for everyone?

EVE is clearly fueled by competition and cannot survive without it. You don't need to spend 15$ per month to look at nebulae and 3D ship models.

Anyone who uses "forcing me to do this" in their argument intrigues me; I have no idea why they are spending money on this game in the first place. The only thing really forcing you to anything is your own brain. If you are tired of getting your progress slowed, it's nobody's fault but your own that you do not use the tools given to everyone.

If you don't like shooting ships, that's your problem. Just don't try telling me those who shoot ships have an unfair advantage when it is clearly an advantage. In fact, anything you do in this game gives you an advantage over those who don't.

That is just as crazy as people moving to a different country and asking for laws to accommodate their personal needs or beliefs.

Why is it that people think this game is for everyone?

EVE is clearly fueled by competition and cannot survive without it. You don't need to spend 15$ per month to look at nebulae and 3D ship models.

Anyone who uses "forcing me to do this" in their argument intrigues me; I have no idea why they are spending money on this game in the first place. The only thing really forcing you to anything is your own brain. If you are tired of getting your progress slowed, it's nobody's fault but your own that you do not use the tools given to everyone.

If you don't like shooting ships, that's your problem. Just don't try telling me those who shoot ships have an unfair advantage when it is clearly an advantage. In fact, anything you do in this game gives you an advantage over those who don't.

That is just as crazy as people moving to a different country and asking for laws to accommodate their personal needs or beliefs.

Another they don t play my way i demand CCP nerf them

But yes this is a game about competition, but competition on all levels and every scale
But it also create alot of different playstyles so deal with it
This isn t your game and if you don t like it how other people play i suggest you go and play another game or create your own game company

Yet the high sec bears continue to try to get rid of playstyles they dont like.

Why is it that people think this game is for everyone?

Anyone who uses "forcing me to do this" in their argument intrigues me; I have no idea why they are spending money on this game in the first place. .

Yet the high sec bears continue to try to get rid of playstyles they dont like.

I was forced to post.

Don't lump all us hisec bears together, some of us accept and appreciate the numerous play style opportunities that are presented in Eve.

We need a new term for hisec bears that aren't utter carebears, carebears is too vague and the only true ones are the ones that want a completely safe PvE only environment. I don't count myself amongst this group of imbeciles, even though I am by the current definition a carebear.

You guys waged a campaign against high-sec miners. You used early 20th century Anti-Semitic propaganda. You said you hated what they stood for.

Not that I log in...

Keep up the hypocrisy space-nerds

You guys waged a campaign against high-sec miners. You used early 20th century Anti-Semitic propaganda. You said you hated what they stood for.

Not that I log in...

Keep up the hypocrisy space-nerds

Those stuff are well within the game's mechanics and vision, promoting gameplay including those outside the boundaries of the game itself; it's one of the most prominent characteristics of Eve and one of it's biggest selling point. Unlike hisec miners who whines that this game doesn't accommodate their 'style' of playing, then cries and complains to CCP to change the mechanics so they can enjoy a game that's less and less sandbox-y, just because they don't want to play the game the way it was designed to be.

"Progress" in this game to me is training skills. I can do that while not logged in at all.

The belligerent undesirables will be pushed out and then the game will be for everyone.

Be quiet, my alt.

Alt? Please. You wish I was your alt you flat chested wonder ;)

Don't make me double up on Thorazine today. You didn't like that last time.

Carebears have a fundamental misunderstanding of what kind of game EVE is, or how... well, anything works.

Is it so hard to understand that the entire game is based around competing with others in some form or another and interfering?

They want to be able to press a button, go afk all day, not have any interaction with anyone at all, come back and have a slightly bigger number in the wallet.

Undesirables plz go

No, but the damn thing won't open.

The only thing really forcing you to anything is your own brain. If you are tired of getting your progress slowed, it's nobody's fault but your own that you do not use the tools given to everyone.

Interesting.

Now apply that line of reason to say, incursions. Or high sec missions. Or any of the myriad other whines about activities that are supposedly too profitable.

Like moon goo?

Much like you. This is not a game about pvp, it is about a sandbox. If they want their sand to accumulate over time and, to them, that is fun, so be it. You have no right to say anything about it.

I wish to thank this Undesirable for proving my statements entirely.

For the benefit of any Undesirables who wish to educate themselves, I shall elucidate on how this particular Undesirable misunderstands the core concepts of EVE Online.

Firstly, the entire game is, after a fashion, PVP. Yes, even your actions constitute a form of PVP. You mine your space rocks, you sell them or use them to manufacture items. Ask yourself this, my Undesirable friend, who purchases your space rocks or manufactured goods? Other players. How do they purchase them? Through an entirely player ran and very competitive market.

Your actions are competing with other players, influencing market prices, availability, etc. You are PVPing and you don't even know.

With that in mind, how is it unreasonable that the other players - ones who are affected by your actions and playstyle - should be able to in turn affect you? It isn't.

Secondly, after making the incorrect statement that the game is "not PVP" you claimed it was instead "sandbox". How would you define "sandbox" gameplay, Undesirable? I am curious. Personally, I define it as players being able to choose their own playstyles and actions - all players, not just you. Some players may choose to interfere with your playstyle. To further relate it to the sandbox analogy... it is a single sandbox you share with others, not your own personal sandbox. There are other games and forms of entertainment in which you can have your own personal sandbox with whatever rules you wish. EVE is not one of them. You are free to do what you like, but there are other people in the sandbox and they are free to do what they like too, including kicking sand in your face.

I urge you, Undesirable, to cancel your subscriptions and purchase another game. You would find much more satisfaction and joy in other such games. You will have no such luck in EVE.

"Progress" in this game to me is training skills. I can do that while not logged in at all.

Problem?

Keep up the busywork tryhards

Much like you. This is not a game about pvp, it is about a sandbox.

What does "sandbox" mean, in your opinion then?

Carebears have a fundamental misunderstanding of what kind of game EVE is, or how... well, anything works.

Is it so hard to understand that the entire game is based around competing with others in some form or another and interfering?

They want to be able to press a button, go afk all day, not have any interaction with anyone at all, come back and have a slightly bigger number in the wallet.

It doesn't even make sense, I don't know how anyone could enjoy that or think that's the kind of game EVE is

Undesirables plz go

Replace the highlighted word with "Some Players" and you have an excellent Poast.

Is this a ganker whine thread? It feels like a ganker whine thread. I say to whining gankers "suck it up buttercup" because killing mining ships is simple.

If one Tornado/Thrasher won't work add one. Repeat until miner goes boom.

Was this a ganker whine thread?



I think it was a ganker whine thread.

You want the next thread over. This is the sandbox means everyones playstyle is legit thread.

Now, what risk do bumpers take? Oh right, nothing, absolutely no risk of anything right now. They don't even get flagged for it like can flippers. Yeah, real risky that.

If you don't like shooting ships, that's your problem. Just don't try telling me those who shoot ships have an unfair advantage when it is clearly an advantage. In fact, anything you do in this game gives you an advantage over those who don't.

That is just as crazy as people moving to a different country and asking for laws to accommodate their personal needs or beliefs.

The industrialist came before the PvP player in this game, ...

You guys waged a campaign against high-sec miners. You used early 20th century Anti-Semitic propaganda. You said you hated what they stood for.

Perhaps, shock/horror they play the game for different reasons to you. Why should your way be the right way?

This is not a game about pvp, it is about a sandbox.

Now apply that line of reason to say, incursions. Or high sec missions. Or any of the myriad other whines about activities that are supposedly too profitable.

Yes, let's turn on Concord in low sec and null sec. How about that?

The industrialist came before the PvP player in this game, and industrialists know they need the PvP aspect in order to sell more ships. If anyone is just showing up and not understanding how the game works, its the PvP players who think they don't need industry.

Now, what risk do bumpers take? Oh right, nothing, absolutely no risk of anything right now. They don't even get flagged for it like can flippers. Yeah, real risky that.

Now, what risk do bumpers take? Oh right, nothing, absolutely no risk of anything right now. They don't even get flagged for it like can flippers. Yeah, real risky that.

Why is it that people think this game is for everyone?

EVE is clearly fueled by competition and cannot survive without it. You don't need to spend 15$ per month to look at nebulae and 3D ship models.

Anyone who uses "forcing me to do this" in their argument intrigues me; I have no idea why they are spending money on this game in the first place. The only thing really forcing you to anything is your own brain. If you are tired of getting your progress slowed, it's nobody's fault but your own that you do not use the tools given to everyone.

If you don't like shooting ships, that's your problem. Just don't try telling me those who shoot ships have an unfair advantage when it is clearly an advantage. In fact, anything you do in this game gives you an advantage over those who don't.

That is just as crazy as people moving to a different country and asking for laws to accommodate their personal needs or beliefs.

Belligerent undesirables get out

I find it rather ironic that in this game, you can do whatever you want, yet people choose to be ass hats.

Yet the high sec bears continue to try to get rid of playstyles they dont like.

Like moon goo?

Additionally, those "ass hats" give value to good actions and without them there would be no contrast between good and evil.

I read a book about this once.

In chapter 1 it discussed the theory of burning your house down to redecorate the lounge. It even talked of killing people to make them better persons.

In chapter 2 they discussed people who deliberately caused harm to others and then rescued them to appear good.

In chapter 3 they discussed how people break the law to test that the law makers are doing their job.

In chapter 4, they discussed using conscription to fight for liberty.

In chapter 5, they discussed using nuclear weapons to preserve humanity.


It was a great book. Want the title?

Looks like you were reading the U.S. Constitution.

Yet the high sec bears continue to try to get rid of playstyles they dont like.

And this is different from null-bears how, exactly?

I read a book about this once.

In chapter 1 it discussed the theory of burning your house down to redecorate the lounge. It even talked of killing people to make them better persons.

In chapter 2 they discussed people who deliberately caused harm to others and then rescued them to appear good.

In chapter 3 they discussed how people break the law to test that the law makers are doing their job.

In chapter 4, they discussed using conscription to fight for liberty.

In chapter 5, they discussed using nuclear weapons to preserve humanity.


It was a great book. Want the title?

Why is it that people think this game is for everyone?

EVE is clearly fueled by competition and cannot survive without it. You don't need to spend 15$ per month to look at nebulae and 3D ship models.

Anyone who uses "forcing me to do this" in their argument intrigues me; I have no idea why they are spending money on this game in the first place. The only thing really forcing you to anything is your own brain. If you are tired of getting your progress slowed, it's nobody's fault but your own that you do not use the tools given to everyone.

If you don't like shooting ships, that's your problem. Just don't try telling me those who shoot ships have an unfair advantage when it is clearly an advantage. In fact, anything you do in this game gives you an advantage over those who don't.

That is just as crazy as people moving to a different country and asking for laws to accommodate their personal needs or beliefs.

We did it for profit.

CCP obviously felt differently.
CCp apparently considered the cost disparity between the attacking ship and the attacked ship was simply too high.

You CAN still gank AFK Miners.
It just requires more investment from YOU.

now whats that frequently posted message by PvP'ers, regarding game changes?
"The game changed. Adapt or Die"



If CCP actually listened to whiney GD care/nulbear threadnaughts, the game would not be the best "Sci-Fi spacegame ever" anymore, it would be the worst, and probably closed.

CCp apparently considered the cost disparity between the attacking ship and the attacked ship was simply too high.

If CCP actually listened to whiney GD care/nulbear threadnaughts, the game would not be the best "Sci-Fi spacegame ever" anymore, it would be the worst, and probably closed.

+1 to Thor.

I hate reading that "playstyle" crap to, it's just a poorly thought up defense for some folks ego. It's them imagining that ( a ) some tyrant is trying to "make" them do something and ( b ) someone else actually care about what they, personally, are doing, none of which tends to be true.

The "leave me alone to play how I want" eve player is like a Guy who doesn't like Soccer (football to y'all foreigners ...I mean non-Americans :) ) but joins a soccer team and ignores the ball( hell, REFUSES to kick the ball even when given a chance) but instead picks daisies on the corner of the field because actually playing soccer "isn't his preferred play style"........

EVE is a pvp/competition-centric multiplayer sandbox imagined by and created by a bunch of evil psychopathic tear loving Icelandic wackos, and I knew that BEFORE I DL'd the game. And yet people still come into (and STAY in) this game expecting to be able to play it unmolested in safe space, then spazz completely out when some other member of out multiplayer universe kills them.

I just can't say enough about how I dislike "those people" (not everyone in high sec or every solo/casual players, just the ones who think the game should cater to them) and it's "those people" who tend to say all that "playstyle" stuff. They're like people who go to a Marilyn Manson concert expecting uplifting gospel music. In other words, idiots.

This game is not and has never been for everyone, I say love it or leave it.

This game is not and has never been for everyone, I say love it or leave it.

And this is different from null-bears how, exactly?

We arnt trying to get rid of mining.

Yes you are.

Find an example where anyone from our organisation has said we wish to remove mining.

And that's why don't work for CCP, especially their accounting department. While the forums may laugh and throw confetti every time someone says that they unsubscribing over an issue, I assure you that CCP's accounting department is not popping champagne corks. They're losing money, and that does not make them happy.

So let's get this through everyone's heads once and for all, okay? CCP is a business. A business is an organism designed to acq ~snip~

Pro-tip: It's all about the demographic. Pooping all over your current audience in a desperate hope to gain a different audience is nearly always suicide, especially when you already are a very niche product.

[quote=baltec1]

Actions speak louder than words. Nice try to hide the facts through plausible deniability though.

You mean our vast market manipulation via the killing of miners mining a single type of ice to make us billions?

Why would we remove such a profitable section of the playerbase?

And that's why don't work for CCP, especially their accounting department. While the forums may laugh and throw confetti every time someone says that they unsubscribing over an issue, I assure you that CCP's accounting department is not popping champagne corks. They're losing money, and that does not make them happy.

And that's why don't work for CCP, especially their accounting department. While the forums may laugh and throw confetti every time someone says that they unsubscribing over an issue, I assure you that CCP's accounting department is not popping champagne corks. They're losing money, and that does not make them happy.

So let's get this through everyone's heads once and for all, okay? CCP is a business. A business is an organism designed to acquire money from people. If it fails to do this, it dies. The way CCP makes money is through subscriptions, preferably long subscriptions that last for years. When subscriptions disappear that's food off their plates. They lose too many subscriptions and little CCP Junior is going ask why CCP Daddy is why they're having to move out of the nice big house into a tiny, little apartment. Then CCP Daddy has to explain that they made a really dumb decision a few weeks ago that cost them thousands of subscribers. What made it a dumb decision? The fact that it cost them thousands of subscribers.

Get it? There is only one criteria for what makes a good or bad decision: How it affects subscriptions. If CCP can makes a decision that makes 100 people quit but another 1,000 people join, that's a good decision. But making 1,000 people quit to satisfy a group of 100 dickheads who got their boy into a CSM position... that's a bad decision. That's probably where so many bad decisions come from, by the way: Alliance voting blocks leveraging their own boys into CSM positions to shove the entire game to suit just themselves. If you ever wondered "Who came up with this stupid idea?" odds are that's going to be your answer.

So the only thing to consider with any change that CCP makes is "Will this make people unsubscibe? Y/N." And I assure that no one in their accounting department believes that there is such a thing as "acceptable losses" when it comes to lost subscriptions, especially ones that could have been easily avoided by simply not screwing with things. What you like or don't are irrelevant past the voting power of your one subscription. And even if you've got five accounts or whatever, great, but that's still less weight than ten other people, let alone a hundred, or a thousand.

Everyone should get off their high-horses long enough to realize who's really in charge of this game. The game belongs to CCP and no one else. They're going to steer the game to the happiness zone of the largest number of people. They'll try to expand their nets to Ven Diagram cover as many people as possible too, but in the end it's always going to be about the numbers for them. That's how they stay in business. Nerf this, buff that, whine whine whine - those guys in accounting who make all the big decisions? They don't give a crap. They're paid not to give a crap. They're just looking at subscription numbers and analyzing data trends. They deal with facts, not opinions. Vocal volume means squat to them. There is only cause and effect, subscription gains and subscription losses. That's all that matters. And you should be thankful for that, because that's the kind of cold logic that keeps good games around for years instead of collapsing like so many others under the imbalanced weight of some lunatic's "vision."

Spoken like someone who actually has no idea about how to run a business.

Because I hate you.

Find an example where anyone from our organisation has said we wish to remove mining.

Remove all mining? Of course not. You simply want to remove all high-sec mining. Which, in turn, lets all of your null-sec bot fleets monopolize the entire market. Which, in turn, means everyone will have to go to null-sec to buy anything. Which, in turn, is only possible if they are willing to swear fealty to your wonderful null-sec alliance. Which, in turn, gives your CEO another pixel on his e-peen. Which, in turn, is pretty much the raison d'etre of playing EvE, right? To force everyone to play the way you want them to or not at all?

Because the vocal minority of anti-miner tards and pvp tards on the forum is clearly a representative sample of the customer base as a whole.

Remove all mining? Of course not. You simply want to remove all high-sec mining. Which, in turn, lets all of your null-sec bot fleets monopolize the entire market.

[...] So let's get this through everyone's heads once and for all, okay? CCP is a business. A business is an organism designed to acquire money from people. If it fails to do this, it dies. The way CCP makes money is through subscriptions, preferably long subscriptions that last for years. [...]

Any business finance team wont be concerned about the minority of players unsubbing from the game, they will (if they are any good) be more interested in the long term appeal and attraction of the game. If you lose even 1000 players next week with some changes but you feel the game will produce a long term attraction that will draw in 6000 players over the next 12 months, what are you going to do?

Remove all mining? Of course not. You simply want to remove all high-sec mining. Which, in turn, lets all of your null-sec bot fleets monopolize the entire market. Which, in turn, means everyone will have to go to null-sec to buy anything. Which, in turn, is only possible if they are willing to swear fealty to your wonderful null-sec alliance. Which, in turn, gives your CEO another pixel on his e-peen. Which, in turn, is pretty much the raison d'etre of playing EvE, right? To force everyone to play the way you want them to or not at all?

Because the vocal minority of anti-miner tards and pvp tards on the forum is clearly a representative sample of the customer base as a whole.

What I'm saying is that for us **customers**, asking the game to move away from these key features under the pretense that "I will unsubscribe" is paradoxical. It would be easier to ask CCP for a new game called VeV which would move away from these two features as much as possible.

Highsec is usually bashed because it it fails to offer a) and gives a false feeling there is no b). Highsec is meant to be a newbie land, which is something this game needs. What often happens is that some people can never "level-up" from being newbies in EVE, and others figure out some highsec rewards are on-par with other secs.

But this "forcing me to..." argument does comes not only from highsec. Take a look at AFK cloaking in 0.0. Take a look at lowsec gatecamps. People don't like the tools given to them to counter these, so they demand a CCP counter (nerf).

The issue is that when it comes to working for their accounting department, neither do you. CCP can decide to close their game. CCP can also decide to make their whole game highsec. CCP can decide to create a completely new game.

This game stands out with two key features:

a) - Conquerable space thousands can call "home".
b) - Complete loss of your ship and modules and sometimes implants when KIA.

What I'm saying is that for us **customers**, asking the game to move away from these key features under the pretense that "I will unsubscribe" is paradoxical. It would be easier to ask CCP for a new game called VeV which would move away from these two features as much as possible.

Highsec is usually bashed because it it fails to offer a) and gives a false feeling there is no b). Highsec is meant to be a newbie land, which is something this game needs. What often happens is that some people can never "level-up" from being newbies in EVE, and others figure out some highsec rewards are on-par with other secs.

But this "forcing me to..." argument does comes not only from highsec. Take a look at AFK cloaking in 0.0. Take a look at lowsec gatecamps. People don't like the tools given to them to counter these, so they demand a CCP counter (nerf).

Unfortunately, CCP have made it quite clear that they're moving in that direction.

Spoken like someone who actually has no idea about how to run a business.

As someone who sits right outside the Finance Director of my company's office and right next to the Finance team (they are all accountants btw) they couldn't care less if one of our customers left the company, as long as we gained 2 more. Any business finance team wont be concerned about the minority of players unsubbing from the game, they will (if they are any good) be more interested in the long term appeal and attraction of the game. If you lose even 1000 players next week with some changes but you feel the game will produce a long term attraction that will draw in 6000 players over the next 12 months, what are you going to do?

Likewise I doubt the finance team has much to do with the game itself. I'd even bet most the accounts don't even have a "CCP [Unfunny in-joke]" name to post on here with. They'll look at the game like this: How many players did we lose over the quarter? How many players did we gain? Have the development team given us a reasonable expectation that player growth will continue?

Even a dip in numbers in one quarter isn't a concern.

TL;DR You're wrong.

You guys ever pause and read what you post? Like really 'pause' and fathom what you all type, the ridiculousness of it all? The sort of calm dictator who does what he must. It's quite awesome quite frankly. You guys are in the wrong game you should try real life politics, you would find a lot of company there.

Pro-tip: It's all about the demographic. Pooping all over your current audience in a desperate hope to gain a different audience is nearly always suicide, especially when you already are a very niche product.

In a certain PvP focused MMO the vocal minority dominated the forums stating they were not getting enough rewards for their actions. Their gripe was that the larger population, the blob, received the rewards even though a minority did all the fighting.

The developers listened to this mnority, which I was one of, and shifted the rewards more towards those willing to take risk.

Almost two years later the population is 1/20th of its previous levels from 2 years ago and the game continues its death shuffle. Now the forums reminisce of how wonderful the game was when it had population and battlefields filled with hundreds instead of dozens.

But hey, carry on. I think CCP can tolerate your whining more than they can tolerate a change in their bank accounts.

Counterpoint: Trammel.

Actually, our family business has kept us well feed for quite a long time. But whatever, believe what you want. The Universe is not obligated to keep a straight face.

Remove all mining? Of course not. You simply want to remove all high-sec mining. Which, in turn, lets all of your null-sec bot fleets monopolize the entire market. Which, in turn, means everyone will have to go to null-sec to buy anything. Which, in turn, is only possible if they are willing to swear fealty to your wonderful null-sec alliance. Which, in turn, gives your CEO another pixel on his e-peen. Which, in turn, is pretty much the raison d'etre of playing EvE, right? To force everyone to play the way you want them to or not at all?

The belligerent undesirables will be pushed out and then the game will be for everyone.

What if I want to be belligerent and undesirable in my sandbox?

You are belligerent and undesirable in our sandbox.

I've certainly never pegged you for desirable and unbelligerent.

Do we have to go there? The only thing positive that expansion added was housing space.

But we already have the captain's quarters.

Because I hate you.

And this is different from null-bears how, exactly?

Bumping is both a labour of love and an educational program, the bumpers are there to protect the interests of everybody in hisec from the hordes of AFKers and bots that currently populate Ice belts. The bumpers are using a game mechanic to educate about the dangers of both AFK and bot aspirant gameplay.

If you're going to mine Ice, don't bot, be at your keyboard and paying attention to your surroundings, pay the small annual fee for a permit to the New Order and be free to mine without the risk of being bumped by the New Orders agents. As long as you're physically present at your keyboard, paying attention and have a permit the New Order are happy to let you continue with your chosen activity without interference.

Anyone who bumps my miner is going to get a nasty surprise. And I will NOT be paying James 315 a single isk so I can mine. I'm not a fan of extortion, bullying or psychotics. The only reason I mine is to get the materials to replace my pvp ships if I lose them.

Pray tell how you're going to surprise a bumper?

We already get suicide ganked, petitioned and James has been wardecced multiple times, what new wrinkle do you have for our entertainment?

We work in hisec, we work within the mechanics of hisec and the restrictions of the EULA, you are more than welcome to do the same but the likelihood of surprising a bumper is next to nil, because we expect all of these things.

Bump them, tell us what happens please.

Come join us, see the fun at first hand

Actually rereading that post, Keeshala Catari mines for materials to replace PvP losses ergo a rockhound, at present we're only targeting Ice miners so she won't be getting bumped anytime soon, unless we do it just to see the "surprise" she has in store for us.

Bit of a shame really, we're not working the Asteroid belts presently, but I'm sure there's plenty of salt water and hurt to be found in them.

@ Alavaria, we're based out of Tolle at the moment, it's convenient as there are 3 systems with ice in them in a nice little cluster, we're taking advantage of the mayhem your corpmates are inflicting in Gallente Ice Belts. I believe there may even be a little liaison between the interested parties.

Why is it that people think this game is for everyone?

EVE is clearly fueled by competition and cannot survive without it.

Anyone who uses "forcing me to do this" in their argument intrigues me...

If you don't like shooting ships, that's your problem..

Belligerent undesirables get out

Oddly enough, the constitution (it's gun amendment) was discussed in depth. Actually, it wasn't odd at all. The right to bear arms to protect yourself against those that bear arms was Chapter 6.

It's time to build your own garage nuclear reactor

Ho wait...

You mean CCP realized that no matter how long they waited, people in hisec just would not stop crying about having to change their fits from maximum yield/cargospace to tanking, so they pre-tanked the ships so people could go back to fitting for maximum yield again.


We did adapt, by moving on to bigger targets. Apparently CCP is saying "okay, we're really serious now" and are nerfing anything even remotely linkable with PVP. The only step they can take beyond this, to nerf hisec PVP, is to basically disallow any aggression against another player whatsoever.


I guess you haven't seen the direction the game has been taken lately, then. It's literally been carebear fix after carebear fix, as carebears whine about it.

Countdown until even bumping someone is deemed an exploit or turned into something which makes the bumper a suspect in 3... 2... 1...

Devblog says your wrong.

Your final point is just baseless rhetorical rumourmongering. If it's actually even a point at all .......

Whenever I explain Eve to my friends who have played other games, I always tell them "you probably won't like it, this game is not for everybody" and unfortunately, most of the time it is true. That said, I can't play any of their boring, meaningless theme park games.

Is that you Otard?

"Progress" in this game to me is training skills. I can do that while not logged in at all.

Problem?

Keep up the busywork tryhards

You don't need to spend 15$ per month to look at nebulae and 3D ship models.

Of course I do.

I am forced to live in highsec because carebears keep screwing the risk/reward to their direction an no nullsec corp wants me and without an alliance, highsec is way more profitable as a newb.

I hate how their forcing there playstyle onto me.

CCP please stop the high sec zealots.

That is just as crazy as people moving to a different country and asking for laws to accommodate their personal needs or beliefs.

I am forced to live in highsec because carebears keep screwing the risk/reward to their direction an no nullsec corp wants me and without an alliance, highsec is way more profitable as a newb.

I hate how their forcing there playstyle onto me.

CCP please stop the high sec zealots.

"The right way" is the way the game allows you to play. It's one thing to question balance and it is another to claim your 15$ per month supports your argument.

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To claim you can play this game completely devoid of human interaction (a.k.a. pvp-less) is quite presumptuous.
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I hate how their forcing there playstyle onto me.

CCP please stop the high sec zealots.

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Forgive me but if you are suggesting that the game isn't set up for industrialists then you clearly need to learn what a lot of new aspects about this game. I always presumed factories, research, PI etc were all elements of the game rather than mindless PVP. I'd suggest that the economics of this game is the sole reason why there is PVP.

To claim the alternative is also presumptuous don't you think?

If CCP made it where you were flagged for PvP by bumping a ship you would be here whinning how you just lost your hauler/freighter/other expensive ship to gankers on the Jita 4-4 undock.

I would love to see a Pirate threat level ~1-10~ in Null sec. This Threat level indicates how strong and aggressive the NPC pirates are. at Threat level 10 the Pirates will start to siege POS's like a normal alliance would ~Basically like a incursion on a Pos~. At around 4-6 the rats will start to form gate camps on that system, with fast locking webs and scrams making it hard for people of that system to move around.
Based on the threat level the rats would have better tank and firepower.

The way to keep the threat level low would be to have a set group that rats and clears up plex's and such, each rat killed and objective done would help reduce the threat level.

Because of the increased rats, rewards would be much higher based on strength of the rats making for good rewards for ratters.
The increased rats would also provide a lot of low quality mods that can be reprocessed into raw minerals in which would help the industry side of null sec.

Now null-secers can recruit new members that may only know how to rat into the corp and slowly introduce them to PvP.
Now High-secers can have a decent viable reason to go to null sec.

Now null sec will have tons of more players and a lot of people can work together instead of bashing each others playstyle.

I am full of energy drinks atm so leave me alone!

You don't want PVP, go to hi-sec.

Whenever I explain Eve to my friends who have played other games, I always tell them "you probably won't like it, this game is not for everybody" and unfortunately, most of the time it is true. That said, I can't play any of their boring, meaningless theme park games.

I am forced to live in highsec because carebears keep screwing the risk/reward to their direction an no nullsec corp wants me and without an alliance, highsec is way more profitable as a newb.

I hate how their forcing there playstyle onto me.

CCP please stop the high sec zealots.

False. You have access to the player-controlled market even in highsec.

If shooting and blowing up peeps (and/or having them do it to you) is not your thing then go to Hi-sec... hrm, not sure where the market has anything to do with it.

Wat? You just left the earth's orbit with that tid bit.

If shooting and blowing up peeps (and/or having them do it to you) is not your thing then go to Hi-sec... hrm, not sure where the market has anything to do with it.

I see the 'player-controlled' bit which means you are part of the panic'd 'miners are ruining the game and it's communism' crowd. I'm not talking about anything to do with markets... simply talking about shooting ships and blowing up.

We don't need more PVE content in nullsec. We need more incentives to PVP.

bottom line:

CCP is a business that exists to make money, and that is based on the number of paid subscriptions.

ANY play style that reduces the number of paid subscriptions is going to get nerfed.

Whine, vent, lament, complain.... try to force players to play the game in a way they do not enjoy, they will quit the game, and CCP will respond.

You may think that those players quitting is a good thing. I am 100% sure that CCP does not feel the same way.

The tired old "CCPs goal is to make money so they'll ... " argument people trot out from time to time is idiotic.

Yes, CCP are a business and their goal is to make money.

But if you think that means they're going to remove or undermine core mechanics, or ditch the ruthless sandbox ethos that made EVE a success, and has allowed it to thrive for nine years, then you're stupid beyond help.

The filthy crybaby miner bears can stomp their feet and threaten to unsubscribe if CCP don't remove all hostile actions against them, but they were never the audience EVE was made for to begin with.

The tired old "CCPs goal is to make money so they'll ... " argument people trot out from time to time is idiotic.

Yes, CCP are a business and their goal is to make money.

But if you think that means they're going to remove or undermine core mechanics, or ditch the ruthless sandbox ethos that made EVE a success, and has allowed it to thrive for nine years, then you're stupid beyond help.

The filthy crybaby miner bears can stomp their feet and threaten to unsubscribe if CCP don't remove all hostile actions against them, but they were never the audience EVE was made for to begin with.

False. You have access to the player-controlled market even in highsec.

This is a mute point of the pedantic.

When hi sec ppl complain about pvp they are talking about combat , pew pew, not playing the markets (which can also be called pvp)

CCP created a game that they hope will appeal to both PVPers and carebears.

I'm not arguing that CCP is going to get rid of low/null or all PVP. All I'm saying is that CCP wants both PVPers and carebears, and will ensure that there is an area of the game for each of these groups of people. I'm arguing that high-sec will remain high-sec, and will remain relatively safe for carebears.

Any war on carebears that results in the carebears quitting the game, and lowering paid subscriptions will result in nerfs.


Just like anything that began making PVPers quit would result in game changes.


CCP wants both, and that is okay.

As someone who sits right outside the Finance Director of my company's office and right next to the Finance team (they are all accountants btw) they couldn't care less if...

Moot point. It's definitely not mute.


Then they should be more specific.

You want PVP, go to null sec.
You want PVP, go to low sec.
You want PVP, go to WH.
You don't want PVP, go to hi-sec.

If it's all about the PvP and that's the core of the game, why so much scraping the bottom of the barrel?

If it's all about the PvP and that's the core of the game, why so much scraping the bottom of the barrel?

I don't see whats so hard to understand. Eve is about combat & warfare which means you undock, your at risk plain & simple. Dosen't matter high low null WH those rules of engagement apply everywhere and CCP is not about to change them. So toughen up, fly smart, don't fly what you can't afford to lose or find another game.

Well unfortunately you'd be doing pvp in high sec no matter if it's killing ships or playing 0.01isk wars, scanning sites, missioning, FW, mining, producing, hauling...

Wrong. You're playing semantics with PvP.

Do you understand what "PVP" stands for, mate?

Hint: It's "player vs player". Not specifically combat. Anything you do that competes with another player is pvp. EVE is a PVP game.

Why is it that people think this game is for everyone?

EVE is clearly fueled by competition and cannot survive without it. You don't need to spend 15$ per month to look at nebulae and 3D ship models.

Anyone who uses "forcing me to do this" in their argument intrigues me; I have no idea why they are spending money on this game in the first place. The only thing really forcing you to anything is your own brain. If you are tired of getting your progress slowed, it's nobody's fault but your own that you do not use the tools given to everyone.

If you don't like shooting ships, that's your problem. Just don't try telling me those who shoot ships have an unfair advantage when it is clearly an advantage. In fact, anything you do in this game gives you an advantage over those who don't.

That is just as crazy as people moving to a different country and asking for laws to accommodate their personal needs or beliefs.

See, now the mistake you've made is that you think he actually has enough knowledge of the English language to understand the literal definition.

In his mind PvP means "u dun got 2 shot da ships o7"

Go ask on a random forum board of gamers to play a PvP game where you fight with selling and trading. They'd laugh you out in a heartbeat. You are using the general term PvP to mean something specific for your own needs.

Go on a random forum board of gamers and ask them what isk sinks are in eve, and they'll go "well it's when you lose a ship".

Just because tons of people thinks the same thing, doesn't make them right.

yeah. gotz meh tharz!!

Go ask on a random forum board of gamers to play a PvP game where you fight with selling and trading. They'd laugh you out in a heartbeat. You are using the general term PvP to mean something specific for your own needs.

Just because tons of people thinks the same thing, doesn't make them right.

The kind of defines the nullsec community.

Oooo you sure showed him didn't you. Gonna go cry in my beer.

The belligerent undesirables will be pushed out and then the game will be for everyone.

no it wont

the industry and pve players will leave and the market will crash and the game shortly after that

if any of u idiot pvp pilots think otherwise

your a damn fool

We did it for profit. Our words were mainly in responce to the bears who campained to remove our playstyle. We infact spent most of our time giving out fitting advice to avoid being killed by us. Unfortuntly, the bears did not listen and managed to convince CCP to more or less kill off our playstyle.

no it wont

the industry and pve players will leave and the market will crash and the game shortly after that

if any of u idiot pvp pilots think otherwise

your a damn fool

yeah. gotz meh tharz!!

Go ask on a random forum board of gamers to play a PvP game where you fight with selling and trading. They'd laugh you out in a heartbeat. You are using the general term PvP to mean something specific for your own needs.

You are using the general term PvP to mean something specific for your own needs.

Have you ever been involved in sov warfare? Who's currently the most successful coalition in Eve? Are they poor? Do you know what a war of attrition is? Or the ways it can be used?




So let me get this straight, me saying pvp is players competing against players in all formats is me spinning it specifically to my own means. Yet you saying pvp is only related to ship-to-ship combat isn't?

Please tell me you see the flaw in your logic.

Look through the forums and see what skills are talked about when a player wants to learn pvp. Nothing more need be said.

You keep saying this baltec. Enlighten me, as I am new. Carebears did what exactly to kill your playstyle?

Look through the forums and see what skills are talked about when a player wants to learn pvp. Nothing more need be said.