Your head looks too small

When a player "pays" to play EvE Online, they should not then be forced to play how a PvP pilot demands he does, it is beyond selfish.

I don't think you have the right to make that judgement.

Hating a common foe is a great way to unify people and get the herd moving in a singular direction. The pros create the foe, fuel the hate, and choose the direction.

The real question is, what's the direction? and who chose that direction?

As a PvP pilot of nine years

High Sec Bears need to back up off my LowNull industry. You all make it hard on me to turn a profit. I consider High Sec Bears to be griefing my play style.

With mass tantrums comes radical change.

Look at the Exhumer buff, for instance. The elites took a legitimate game mechanic and used it to push CCP to nerfing their favorite pastime.

Now they are childishly ganking every freighter that crosses their path and bumping every miner that has the audacity to undock.

It will end badly for them ('them' being anyone who abuses the system. Not just gankers.) and they will cry a river that it's everyone's fault but theirs. When that's exactly who's fault it is.

Mr Epeen

With mass tantrums comes radical change.

Look at the Exhumer buff, for instance. The elites took a legitimate game mechanic and used it to push CCP to nerfing their favorite pastime.

Now they are childishly ganking every freighter that crosses their path and bumping every miner that has the audacity to undock.

It will end badly for them ('them' being anyone who abuses the system. Not just gankers.) and they will cry a river that it's everyone's fault but theirs. When that's exactly who's fault it is.

Mr Epeen

Imperial Academy [IAC] from 2012.10.26 01:02 to this day

doesn't look like nine years to me, I even double checked

Besides the bumping and freighter ganking complaining has more to do with a likely reduction in miner ganking. I'm sure at this point miners have figured out that they have no leg to stand on if they complain about ganking; so they've moved on to the last couple of things that actually affect them in the hopes that CCP does something about it.

So what after they get that anti-bump module...

What's the next thing they'll need fixed for them in order that EVE not die?

Your head looks too small

Obviously the abilty to move infinite amounts of isk worth of goods without worry.

Predictable high secers are predictable.

Than they'll demand CCP put an end to mission ganking.

Then half the playerbase will leave and EVE will be another UO. A great sandbox game with half the original number of people playing it because the whiny brats made it unfun for the other half.


PS: Did we just connect the dots on how to "kill" EVE?

PPS: you know damned well they wouldn't fit that module any more than they fit a module to tank the barges. They'd get the module and then demand CCP make it a passive effect on all barges.

He said in a previous thread he was posting on an alt. I thought you would know that given you posted in the thread.

Of course you didn't seem to disagree with his opinion in that one.

comparing wow to eve in my own words

Every NPC alt poster is a 2003 player with director alts in every alliance in the game, right?

I hate everything that doesn't have goggles.

No reason, just arbitrarily decided that just now.

DIE PUPILED FIENDS!

Yes its the gankers fault the freighter pilots are undocking with 20+ billion in their holds...

The next thing people will be screaming for is the ability to "fax" stuff across the universe with zero risk,

I was going to say the automated gathering of ISK and materials while never playing the game, but that's already happening.

I will always PVE. If there was a valid reason to PVE in low/null that helped alliances/corps then I would be down there but there isn't.

I will always PVE because I suck at PVP. I would PVE anywhere but I choose to PVE in High sec because there is no reason for me to get into a low/null corp that would push PVP onto me as I try to PVE.

Bring on the hate and bring on the pain, in the end I will still be standing strong to my play style.

Gankers love you, because they can bring the pain forever.

I bet they would, though they have never tried ganking me... I wonder why?

Hello

Below i am going to highlight issues i have with the current PvP pilot attitude towards PvE players.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=40762
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101626

This sums it up quite well.

This. Totally this.

How about the OP stop forcing his playstyle on me. Seems to be a common line for people who refuse to accept that CCP's game is based entirely around people being able to impact each other, regardless of where in the game you play; so why shouldn't it apply to me as a null sec industrialist who is being undermined by the mass farming of meta loot that obsoletes a lot of the **** I build.

Your farmed loot is more than a valid reason for me to want you guys blown up at every turn.

"PVE" players need to accept the fact that this entire game is PVP. Their stupid mining, missioning, etc has a massive impact on the price and availability of items for every single player. They have an influence on every single player in EVE, it is only fair that every player be able to equally affect them.

If you want pure, uninterrupted pve play a different game

When a player "pays" to play EvE Online, they should not then be forced to play how a PvP pilot demands he does, it is beyond selfish.

In what way does a high sec player force his play style on you? They don't, they go about there business...

When a player "pays" to play online he should not be forced to pay prices how an industry pilot demands he does, it is beyond selfish

The more I read crap like the OP, the more I begin to understand why groups like the Goons exist. I've been fighting goons since my very 1st day as a shave-tail null sec newbie in Atlas Alliance up till now so I've always equate "Goon" with "Assclown" but now, not so much.

And it's because of these people like the OP and the high sec ONLY carebears and zealots hiding behind CONCORD's (ie CCP's) Skirts while being brave enough to talk trash on the forums.

I'm very much a "live and let live" type in game and in real life, but the more I hear this whining and crying from the most protected and coddled class of players in this game (the high sec crowd), the more I end up wanting to raise the virtual black flag and start slitting virtual throats....

Where do I sign up to start bumping and suicide ganking miners???

Another Agent of the New Order is born? Funny how miners being so greedy and self-entitled only exacerbates things.

When a pvp player "pays" to play EvE Online, they should not then be forced to play how a Noob PvE pilot demands he does, it is beyond selfish.


In other words. don't force others to play your way, its a double edge sword.

And it's because of these people like the OP and the high sec ONLY carebears and zealots hiding behind CONCORD's (ie CCP's) Skirts while being brave enough to talk trash on the forums.

The thing is, the OP is one of the people he is arguing against. He sits on gates with his friends waiting for solo faction BSes to show up so he can gank them.

if they are that stupid, they deserve to die

Bleating.

Shiver me timbers another bumper who will not affect the end results at all, whatever will we do. I made 3.2 bill last week, on pace 5.8 this week, and your bumping and bumpers cannot stop it!! LOL. You guys do make me laugh a lot. You will never effect my bottom line, that is a fact.

Shiver me timbers another bumper who will not affect the end results at all, whatever will we do. I made 3.2 bill last week, on pace 5.8 this week, and your bumping and bumpers cannot stop it!! LOL. You guys do make me laugh a lot. You will never effect my bottom line, that is a fact.

HOWEVER to gank people in empire, is cowardly and not real pvp.

we take anything stupid enough to enter low sec/nul sec without a scout, if they are that stupid, they deserve to die

But my very small corp os 12 made from rl mates since 2004 has never once ganked a miner in high sec or voted to nerf missions or incursions because IT DOESN'T effect us. Do you understand?

I will kill freighters/miners/haulers in low sec / null sec because they don't have escorts or guards and in my opinion this is stupid. HOWEVER to gank people in empire, is cowardly and not real pvp. Your not pvping ur shooting people who have no skill and cannot fight back.

your killing ships that cant fire back, its cowards work for pvp pilots who can't pvp in null. A mining corp attacked our three vindictators in low sec last night with 12 bc's, we killed them all with no loss. That is the way i will fight, not i empire docking as soon as the corp of carebears i decked has to many members olinr

don't confuse my argument with a PvE pilot, i just don't have a huge ego like most of this forum does.

Well, have fun come 12/4.

It'll be interesting to see how you're not effected when everyone in high sec can get paid to blow you up.

The more I read crap like the OP, the more I begin to understand why groups like the Goons exist. I've been fighting goons since my very 1st day as a shave-tail null sec newbie in Atlas Alliance up till now so I've always equate "Goon" with "Assclown" but now, not so much.

....

Players who like Pve will not suddenly start doing PvP. They will leave the game. And then you cannot shoot them. Whats the point of driving away all the targets?

Sad. Switching your hateread toward goons to some inocent carebears makes you nothing else that a carebear. What you gonna do from now on, raid the ice fields and bitching all day long on forums about miners instead of hunting the hunters? Pfff...

Nobody hates HiSec bears.

What people hate is the attitude of entitlement that a lot of HiSec bears display. They seem to think they're entitled to immunity from any and all aggressive acts from other players.


Some of us like to disabuse HiSec bears of their sense of entitlement.

And if people say "if you Nerf the thing we like we will quit" then what is the point of courting them to stay in the game, they're gonna rage quit over something at some point.

lots of stuff .

not worried mate, because I know how the new changes work, you might want to read them.

No PVE pilot has ever forced a PVP pilot to PVE

Adding to the bounty pool on this disgusting carebear. We can make sure it's worthwhile for people to suicide gank you again and again.

I'm kind of sure targeted suicide ganking too many times is against the rules and counted as griefing...

I'm kind of sure targeted suicide ganking too many times is against the rules and counted as griefing...

Not if it's done because of the new bounty system. It's always a bloo bloo griefing this griefing that with some people, gosh!

Another alt opinion pro-carebear. What a shocker.

For a PvP pilot of 9 years, you sure have a nonexistant kill-board. Oh wait, I'm wasting time talking to an alt.

Sigh. I hate to point this out but it technically is real PvP because both parties are players and, you know, Player versus Player and all that...

Unless one of them isn't a player...

why the hell is it NOT ok for PVE focused players to stay away from PVP-centric areas if they dont want to PVP?

For someone who asks for a thread to be closed if it doesn't go the way he likes you sure know what topic's to choose OP .

That's the thing, the "carebears" aren't "innocent".

The only times Goons have had an affect on me personally is when they've blown up my combat ships when I was in Atlas....and IT.....and -A-....and NCDot lol (like I've said, i've been on the anti-Goon side a LONG time), but at least they have the nutt-sacktuional fortitude to actually FACE ME in a fight, where as these "innocent carebears" can only muster a teresly worded forum post against me while to mine/mission/incursion the economy into the ground lol.

I'm not quite a goon lover yet, but i support their "emergent gameplayin" them carebears to tears.

Because they do want to PvP.

why the hell is it NOT ok for PVE focused players to stay away from PVP-centric areas if they dont want to PVP?

You got a good point there, It is PVP.. and some hisec carebears need to learn to accept that. The hate goes both ways it seems, "elite PVPers" hating on the hisec PVE players, and "carebear hisec" players hating on the "evil PVPers".

Thing is. If its ok to kill hisec people for fun from a PVP perspective, and their tears are just added fun, why the hell is it NOT ok for PVE focused players to stay away from PVP-centric areas if they dont want to PVP?

As a PVPer YOU get the choice of bringing the pain to hisec (limited as it might be) why shouldn't PVEers get the option of NOT wanting to go to lowsec/nullsec to seek out more of the gameplay they dont want?


on the PVP part: I'd like more PvB to happen in EVE.. Player versus Bots :)

It is perfectly acceptable for the PvE players to stay away from the PvP areas, the problem is they'd have to leave EVE to do that.

I am sure you understand what i really meant by it already though.. The rest of the post talks about actively engaging in PVP. That is not the same as having a "pvp flag is off or on" function and you know it.

The moment any player undocks from a station outside of the training areas, they are expressing a willingness to engage in combat based PvP. These are the rules all players must adhere to.

I'm not sure that you understand. The mere fact that I can activate offensive modules against your ship pretty much anywhere (with some notable exceptions to get newbies on their feet) indicates to me that there are no places in EVE that are exempt from ship-to-ship PvP.

According to your point, they are already "expressing a willingness to engage in pvp" (in their barge.. wtf?), and such what is the constant whining about from all the PVPers?

Stop behaving like i mean its ok to turn off a pvp flag (which i have explicitely said i DONT want).

See my previous reply to Riot Girl, you are both making the same point and either willfully misunderstanding me or just incapable of seeing the distinction im trying to point out. PVPers whine about hisec players not actively trying to PVP more. Hisec players arent safe, they just try to minimize the PVP combat risk because thats how they like to play. The are allowed to do that, because they are still at risk anyways since its a PVP all over the place all the time game.

Stop behaving like i mean its ok to turn off a pvp flag (which i have explicitely said i DONT want).

The frustration stems from those who refuse to accept the rules. There are some people who wish to undock while retaining the protection of being docked. This wouldn't be a problem if they kept these wishes to themselves, but they don't. They express their desires openly and shamelessly and that is embarrassing and unacceptable.

Basically it seems that a minority in eve (nullsec/lowsec PVPers) is harassing a majority(hisec players), because they view them all as another minority(hisec carebears who want PVP free zones) :)

To be honest, I just don't really trust miners. I don't believe anyone finds mining fun, so what the hell are they doing? They're definitely up to something (at least the ones that aren't bots). I wish they'd find something else to do besides hanging around the asteroid belts in their odd looking barges gibbering weirdly and using their perverted weaponry to shoot space rocks.

I'm kind of sure targeted suicide ganking too many times is against the rules and counted as griefing...

Get ready for this one guys, it's a doozy.....





All PvP in EVE is actually consensual - you consent the moment you log in. You may or may not like the way you got PvP'd in any given situation, but the fact is, you did consent to it.








The solution, therefore, is to stop logging in.







EVE is a game for lions. Be a lion and you will be successful. Whine... and you will be forever at the mercy of other people.

People tend to forget that you have a choice in EvE

I was actually following and posting in that thread you mentioned, and have been writing similar threads myself in the past. The reason he asked for it locked might have been that insistent guy always posting angry retorts and hiding behind "im in character!" and reiterating the same arguments over and over again?

EVE is a game for lions. Be a lion and you will be successful. Whine... and you will be forever at the mercy of other people.

One way of improving these forums might be that you must post with your main.

The Op is clearly hiding behind an alt or just lying, rabble rabble rabble " I'm a PvP pilot of nine years".

Which in that case makes the OP's post a clear case of trolling. Trolling is as you know is the word used to describe a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting the players. Posts of this nature are disruptive and do not contribute to the sense of community we want for our forums.

I think you all are trolled.

Annoyance on the forums comes from posts like that. Suggestions that this not be a pvp game belongs on the suggestion forums IMO.

I'm comfortable with this. Because I did. Deliberately.

Do me a favour and look at the OP in that topic. Then look at his last post before he asked it to be locked. Then tell me how he fast he educated himself about lack of forum censorship.

Carry on.

James summed it up well a while ago: Miners strive to NOT play the game and to instead be bots. I'll try and find the post, it was one of his big threadnaughts about ganking miners from last year

Hello

As i have stated before i am not new to EvE but new to the forums. As a PvP pilot of nine years, i am find it highly disturbing the amount of hostility that PvP pilots direct at high sec PvE players, i do not use the term care-bear as it is derogatory towards other players who do not choose to game as i do. Below i am going to highlight issues i have with the current PvP pilot attitude towards PvE players.

1. We hate miners - The question is why? What is it they do other than play EvE online in a different way to you? The truth is, nothing, 0.0 alliances control the market, not empire corps, they never have. So why the hate towards miners?

2. We hate mission runners - The question is why? What is it they do other than play EvE online in a diffrent way to you? The truth is, nothing, The get enjoyment from buying expensive ships, running level 4's, watching there wealth go up and tricking out there ships much like i do for PvP. But, you don't like it? Seems a tad reprehensible to me.

3. We hate Incursions - The Question is why? What is it they do other than play EvE online in a diffrent way to you? The truth is, nothing, they love incursions, the love to make so much money, they don't know what to do with it, so what? How does this affect you? It doesn't, you just complain and get them nerfed to hell and back. Seems again, reprehensible.

4. We hate WH corps - The question is why? What is it they do other than play EvE online in a diffrent way to you? The truth is, nothing. You dislike they can hide in bubbles, make money and don't have to fight you, have cloaky ships (even tho you use these yourself). Again, reprehensible.

The bottom line is, PvP pilots dislike PvE pilots for one reason and one reason only, they choose to play EvE Online differently than you, for you to attack the PvE population verbally on the forums and to push your own agenda will not force them to PvP or force them into our play grounds. All you will force them to do is quit.

Also please don't rag in with *market pvp* because thats rubbish, the market is business. Not PvP. U cant swing it that way, so dont even try

I have been a pvp since 2 months after beta when i joined Curse Alliance and have been ever since, yes i have an ice miner (doesn't make me much isk) and yes i have a mission runner in a tengu (makes less isk than null ratting tbfh) so, in that regard.

You need to leave off because it is very sad and reprehensible that PvP pilots think you have god given right to tell other people how to play a game they pay for. You can sit and say Market PvP and Trade PvP and blah blah PvP but they don't see it like that and should not be forced to.

When a player "pays" to play EvE Online, they should not then be forced to play how a PvP pilot demands he does, it is beyond selfish.

What I don't like is that you are able to gain as much reward as I do with far less risk and many people of your demographic emphatically argue in favor of the current broken risk:reward dynamic so their all holy "isk/hr" remains unaffected. People who experience actual risk are tired of highsec being pampered and being told to HTFU when we complain. It doesn't help that CCP mostly ignores other sec areas or leaves them hideously broken for long periods of time either. It also doesn't help that most of the highsec PvErs who post here are npc alts, rage posting, or posting something moronic.

I was actually following and posting in that thread you mentioned, and have been writing similar threads myself in the past. The reason he asked for it locked might have been that insistent guy always posting angry retorts and hiding behind "im in character!" and reiterating the same arguments over and over again?

Actually, come to think of it, i have been posting and following quite a few of those kind of threads over the years in EVE, and you know what? they almost always end with getting locked because of A) insane amounts of hate/flaming from some very vocal people. Usually of the type "you suck/should leave/die etc for not wanting to do PVP 24/7 in EVE!!!". B) the OP asking for it to be locked because of the massive amounts of personal attacks that start and the derailment of the topic that ensues from that..

You are paying to play a sandbox game where most of the items are player made, if they make it they have the right to set it at any price they want.

If you are mad about it do something about it in game, it is a sandbox and you have every right to do something about it.

Eg: Gank transport ships.

Beat me to it. Where is most of this hate generated? In 0.0. When is this hate generated? When the major players are at a lull and have no big war to fight. Who generates the hate? The people in charge? Why do they generate the hate? To keep their troops unified until the next big thing comes along. What if they don't generate hate and create a campaign against it? People get bored, infighting, people leave.

The soldiers need directive and entertainment. Hulkageddon, ice interdiction, invasion of WH space en mass are all tools to keep the front liners from becoming rebellious.

You need to leave off because it is very sad and reprehensible that PvP pilots think you have god given right to tell other people how to play a game they pay for.

Your head looks too small

I am now and always have been a carebear. I just beleive in pre-emptively defending my asteroids from everyone in the game, even people that live in regions far removed from my own.

You need to leave off because it is very sad and reprehensible that PvP pilots think you have god given right to tell other people how to play a game they pay for.

admittedly we're only bumping folks and already the sweet sweet rage from certain people is well worth the loss of the ISK I could making missioning or mining instead.

SoGǪ when will highsec GǣPvE pilotsGǥ back off from interfering with GǣPvP pilots?Gǥ

Oh, and OP: the market is the most vicious PvP arena in the game.

Not God-given, but rather CCP-given. I'm sure any respectable theologian would agree that there's a significant difference.

SoGǪ when will highsec GǣPvE pilotsGǥ back off from interfering with GǣPvP pilots?Gǥ

Oh, and OP: the market is the most vicious PvP arena in the game.

Absolute rubbish, there is no combat over the market, it is simply business, you don't see RL businessmen killing each other because Argos sold a stereo cheaper than Comet now do you?

PVP pilots should NOT be allowed to shoot in high sec at all.

From experience, I can tell you that both Argos and Comet *fight* to sell you expensive crap at a lower price than each other. That right there is real-life PvP (technically, BvB). I've been a victim of both of these corporate bastards ganking my wallet.



And the troll reveals his true colours.

Absolute rubbish, there is no combat over the market

you don't see RL businessmen killing each other because Argos sold a stereo cheaper than Comet now do you?

Please don't lecture to me about pvp,

Do u know why WOW is so sucessful? Because NO PLAYER is forced to play how others want to

Ok. I'll stop lecturing you when you stop being wrong. Deal?

It as nothing to do with True colours, it has to do with PvP pilots leaving high sec pilots alone

As soon as a player even suggest that high sec be about production or merc corps, you instantly scream carebear lover

it is the same rubbish over and over on every thread

PVP pilots want super easy targets

Do u know why WOW is so sucessful? Because NO PLAYER is forced to play how others want to

It as nothing to do with True colours, it has to do with PvP pilots leaving high sec pilots alone

As soon as a player even suggest that high sec be about production or merc corps, you instantly scream carebear lover

it is the same rubbish over and over on every thread

PVP pilots want super easy targets

Do u know why WOW is so sucessful? Because NO PLAYER is forced to play how others want to

i love eve online, i will be here till its dieing breath, but there needs to be changes made for the good of the game, not the tiny pvp grief areas

False, I got sick of being killed and started doing PvP. I still get kill but on my terms now, and when I do the killing it is a much better expierence than any other part of this game. Hell even when I die I still have more fun.

[quote=Mr Epeen]I'm sure that CCP understand more than anyone that the game doesn't really work as intended if the high sec economy can't be impacted by other people. With inferno they removed a big part of how players could have an impact, hopefully with retribution and the bounty system we get that back, AND miners can use the same tool to fight back as well.

Retribution may not just mean high sec being able to fight back against pirates, but other people being able to fight back against the high sec economy which, apparently unknown to many in high sec, is effecting a large part of the rest of New Eden, and not in a good way.

Pancakes...

So, give the freighter enough EHP to survive a high alpha, but give it little to no recharge. That way, moving a loaded freighter with a couple friend cross repping logi's can keep the freighter alive long enough for CONCORD response.

Wait... 30K EHP... never mind. That would be some alpha.

Seems to me we don't need to change the freighter. We need to change the mindset of the people flying them to have some friendly logi ships hanging around to rep them long enough for concord to arrive.

Or am I missing something? Are 30K alpha's common? Or would they just alpha the logi then take out the freighter?

Or am I missing something? Are 30K alpha's common? Or would they just alpha the logi then take out the freighter?

It as nothing to do with True colours, it has to do with PvP pilots leaving high sec pilots alone

As soon as a player even suggest that high sec be about production or merc corps, you instantly scream carebear lover

it is the same rubbish over and over on every thread

PVP pilots want super easy targets

Do u know why WOW is so sucessful? Because NO PLAYER is forced to play how others want to

i love eve online, i will be here till its dieing breath, but there needs to be changes made for the good of the game, not the tiny pvp grief areas

Hello

As i have stated before i am not new to EvE but new to the forums. As a PvP pilot of nine years, i am find it highly disturbing the amount of hostility that PvP pilots direct at high sec PvE players, i do not use the term care-bear as it is derogatory towards other players who do not choose to game as i do. Below i am going to highlight issues i have with the current PvP pilot attitude towards PvE players.

1. We hate miners - The question is why? What is it they do other than play EvE online in a different way to you? The truth is, nothing, 0.0 alliances control the market, not empire corps, they never have. So why the hate towards miners?

2. We hate mission runners - The question is why? What is it they do other than play EvE online in a diffrent way to you? The truth is, nothing, The get enjoyment from buying expensive ships, running level 4's, watching there wealth go up and tricking out there ships much like i do for PvP. But, you don't like it? Seems a tad reprehensible to me.

3. We hate Incursions - The Question is why? What is it they do other than play EvE online in a diffrent way to you? The truth is, nothing, they love incursions, the love to make so much money, they don't know what to do with it, so what? How does this affect you? It doesn't, you just complain and get them nerfed to hell and back. Seems again, reprehensible.

4. We hate WH corps - The question is why? What is it they do other than play EvE online in a diffrent way to you? The truth is, nothing. You dislike they can hide in bubbles, make money and don't have to fight you, have cloaky ships (even tho you use these yourself). Again, reprehensible.

The bottom line is, PvP pilots dislike PvE pilots for one reason and one reason only, they choose to play EvE Online differently than you, for you to attack the PvE population verbally on the forums and to push your own agenda will not force them to PvP or force them into our play grounds. All you will force them to do is quit.

Also please don't rag in with *market pvp* because thats rubbish, the market is business. Not PvP. U cant swing it that way, so dont even try

I have been a pvp since 2 months after beta when i joined Curse Alliance and have been ever since, yes i have an ice miner (doesn't make me much isk) and yes i have a mission runner in a tengu (makes less isk than null ratting tbfh) so, in that regard.

You need to leave off because it is very sad and reprehensible that PvP pilots think you have god given right to tell other people how to play a game they pay for. You can sit and say Market PvP and Trade PvP and blah blah PvP but they don't see it like that and should not be forced to.

When a player "pays" to play EvE Online, they should not then be forced to play how a PvP pilot demands he does, it is beyond selfish.

Forum alts, go home.

From experience, I can tell you that both Argos and Comet *fight* to sell you expensive crap at a lower price than each other. That right there is real-life PvP (technically, BvB). I've been a victim of both of these corporate bastards ganking my wallet.



And the troll reveals his true colours.

Another thing I have found is most PVPers have no clue how indy works nor the massive amount of materials just 1 toon can burn through each day. A big time industrialist is going to base himself where he will have ready access to all the needed supplies to keep his lines going 24/7. He's not going to relocate to some backwater nullsec system where basic stuff is hard to find.

I only hate those groups when the start to whine that 0.0 has it better than they do, and how we need to be nerfed.

Ive said it several times, if the opportunities of Sov 0.0 even MATCHED what empire had I would never go to high-sec again. Sadly I have to go to 4-4 several times per week to buy ships, mods, skill books, ammo, etc. because they cannot, due to game mechanics failures, be locally produced where I live.

Actually that is a lie, I would still go to high-sec, but I would go for entirely different reasons. I would just be less bitter about the constant flow of BAW coming from empire people.

The grass is always greener I guess.

they cannot, due to game mechanics failures, be locally produced where I live

People tend to forget that you have a choice in EvE

Seriously,

Everyone can make logical arguments to the OP, but I doubt anyone will get through to him. Some peeps just are not capable of realizing that they possibly may be wrong about something and be willing to bend. That's too bad.

The moment any player undocks from a station outside of the training areas, they are expressing a willingness to engage in combat based PvP. These are the rules all players must adhere to.

Null sec is perfectly capable of producing ships and modules there's just no one around to do it on a large enough scale. I think the main problems are most null alliances don't have a decent sized indy wing and even if they did nullsec isn't indy friendly. Why you might ask?

Hello

...wrote stuff I didn-¦t care to read

As a generalization though PvPers seem to whine on the forum significantly more than everyone else.

I shot a random noob rifter today.
I checked what he has lost and sent him the money plus a bit.

To his question of why i did it....

Because you where there!

He fully accepted and understood that.
Lost a cheap ship, gained much more experience.

That's what happened to me when I started almost 5 years ago, I was flying a Rifter in low sec and went to a belt because that's where people siad you can sometimes find fights, and a Brutix landed on me, webbed/scrammed me and killed me then gave me some isk and traded me my "loot" in station.

I never asked him why he did it. I knew why he did it, because like him I had downloaded a video game where most of the spaceships have GUNs on them and it was pretty easy to tell before installing what the focus of the game was lol.

Well it was easy to figure out for me anyways, according to these forums a few people are still struggling with the concept.....

Hello

As i have stated before i am not new to EvE but new to the forums. As a PvP pilot of nine years, i am find it highly disturbing the amount of hostility that PvP pilots direct at high sec PvE players, i do not use the term care-bear as it is derogatory towards other players who do not choose to game as i do. Below i am going to highlight issues i have with the current PvP pilot attitude towards PvE players.

1. We hate miners - The question is why? What is it they do other than play EvE online in a different way to you? The truth is, nothing, 0.0 alliances control the market, not empire corps, they never have. So why the hate towards miners?

2. We hate mission runners - The question is why? What is it they do other than play EvE online in a diffrent way to you? The truth is, nothing, The get enjoyment from buying expensive ships, running level 4's, watching there wealth go up and tricking out there ships much like i do for PvP. But, you don't like it? Seems a tad reprehensible to me.

3. We hate Incursions - The Question is why? What is it they do other than play EvE online in a diffrent way to you? The truth is, nothing, they love incursions, the love to make so much money, they don't know what to do with it, so what? How does this affect you? It doesn't, you just complain and get them nerfed to hell and back. Seems again, reprehensible.

4. We hate WH corps - The question is why? What is it they do other than play EvE online in a diffrent way to you? The truth is, nothing. You dislike they can hide in bubbles, make money and don't have to fight you, have cloaky ships (even tho you use these yourself). Again, reprehensible.

The bottom line is, PvP pilots dislike PvE pilots for one reason and one reason only, they choose to play EvE Online differently than you, for you to attack the PvE population verbally on the forums and to push your own agenda will not force them to PvP or force them into our play grounds. All you will force them to do is quit.

Also please don't rag in with *market pvp* because thats rubbish, the market is business. Not PvP. U cant swing it that way, so dont even try

I have been a pvp since 2 months after beta when i joined Curse Alliance and have been ever since, yes i have an ice miner (doesn't make me much isk) and yes i have a mission runner in a tengu (makes less isk than null ratting tbfh) so, in that regard.

You need to leave off because it is very sad and reprehensible that PvP pilots think you have god given right to tell other people how to play a game they pay for. You can sit and say Market PvP and Trade PvP and blah blah PvP but they don't see it like that and should not be forced to.

When a player "pays" to play EvE Online, they should not then be forced to play how a PvP pilot demands he does, it is beyond selfish.

I didnt read this thread. Was there Tears ?

Nope, quite productive actually, showed a real shift in how PVP pilots view empire from the intelligent responses, the rest were just trolls causing fights

But it does show pvp pilots do think that if you ive in high sec, your a piece of crap and need to die

Which in turn shows the mentality of EVE's so called elitists forum warriors who are also pvpers

So, all in all, good thread

Null sec is perfectly capable of producing ships and modules there's just no one around to do it on a large enough scale. I think the main problems are most null alliances don't have a decent sized indy wing and even if they did nullsec isn't indy friendly. Why you might ask?

Well PVPers seem to look upon carebears aka miners/builders with disdain. PVPers don't think indy types are l33t enough to be in 0.0 unless they PVP and have a good killboard. For most "hardcore" indy guys they like doing indy stuff and could care less about their KB or PVP. They like building and selling stuff for you guys to blow up and nothing is wrong with that.

I've found PVPers are also very impatient. Unless they are constantly shooting stuff they start to twitch and whine to anyone that will listen about not having any fun. Nullsec isn't very friendly when it comes to doing "solo" indy stuff like mining so indy guys might need help locking down a system for mining/ratting or keeping the BS rats from popping their exhumers in belts or scouting JF/freighters moving supplies. So would PVPers run security for 3-4 hrs to help the indy guys? Hell no because that's beneath their l33t PVP skills and won't get them any KM.

Now on to nullsec in general. Nullsec indy is hampered by afk cloakers disrupting mining ops since you never know when that cloaker will warp in and hotdrop 15 supers on your mining op and by roaming fleets of neuts/reds. Indy stuff also requires a pretty substantial infrastructure especially in nullsec due to the lack of stations with slots for building/copy/invention. Couple this with the long times for researching/copying/inventing off BPOs and it becomes impractical since you don't know if 30 days from now your alliance will even own the system. This means your brand new capital BPO could get blown up in a POS or locked in a station you can't enter. The only way around this is doing the bulk of indy stuff in highsec and shipping it to nullsec.

Another thing I have found is most PVPers have no clue how indy works nor the massive amount of materials just 1 toon can burn through each day. A big time industrialist is going to base himself where he will have ready access to all the needed supplies to keep his lines going 24/7. He's not going to relocate to some backwater nullsec system where basic stuff is hard to find.

So instead of PVPers blaming the highsec carebear as the cause for them not having any fun and nullsec being broken maybe they should instead try working with industrialists and give them a reason to move to null in the first place. Maybe instead of calling for nerfs to highsec they should be yelling to CCP to buff nullsec and make it more indy friendly. Believe me if nullsec indy wasn't a PITA then there would be tons of indy guys there.

Did you even read your own thread, brotato?

Nobody hates HiSec bears.

What people hate is the attitude of entitlement that a lot of HiSec bears display. They seem to think they're entitled to immunity from any and all aggressive acts from other players.


Some of us like to disabuse HiSec bears of their sense of entitlement.

I see this same thing also from nullsec when telling lies about how the removal of local will make it deserted. I trespass in nullsec, it's already deserted.
.

We dont have nearly enough slots in our stations for industry. I would be building stuff out there right now but its far far cheaper to build it all in empire and just ship it out.

You can't be that dense.

Hur der, null sec deserted, remove local. Because that will make it not deserted, obviously.

Yes its the gankers fault the freighter pilots are undocking with 20+ billion in their holds...

Good point. But we won't know

Spoken like a true antisocial. "Honestly officer it was the rich dudes fault for buying a ferrari, I wouldn't have stolen it otherwise..."

Or how about this one, "if she wasn't dressed that way..."

All statements of this type serve no other purpose that to divert responsibility for your actions to someone else.

Spoken like a true antisocial. "Honestly officer it was the rich dudes fault for buying a ferrari, I wouldn't have stolen it otherwise..."

Or how about this one, "if she wasn't dressed that way..."

All statements of this type serve no other purpose that to divert responsibility for your actions to someone else.

I asked about the number of 0.0 indy slots as a question only yesterday to a fellow Goon.

"Will it fix your 0.0 indy problems and stop you whining" I asked.

"No" was the reply, "we also want manufacturing in the supermarket called highsec to be so expensive that people will come to my cornerstore and buy my stuff at extreme prices"...

I have not seen a response to my statement that "0.0 is in fact asking for state sponsored protectionism".

Slots apprently is not the problem, it's a problem (which I concede). Make what you will.

I asked about the number of 0.0 indy slots as a question only yesterday to a fellow Goon.

"Will it fix your 0.0 indy problems and stop you whining" I asked.

"No" was the reply, "we also want manufacturing in the supermarket called highsec to be so expensive that people will come to my cornerstore and buy my stuff at extreme prices"...

I have not seen a response to my statement that "0.0 is in fact asking for state sponsored protectionism".

Slots apprently is not the problem, it's a problem (which I concede). Make what you will.

The problem is that, even discounting the inherent risks of living and manufacturing stuff in 0.0 (suppose you never get blown up or whatever), it is far less practical to do your industry there rather than hisec. Lack of slots is part of that, and probably one of the easiest to fix. The harder fixes are things like lack of resource flow crippling non-vertical industry operations (which handle everything from mining/research to final ship).

I have never, not once, ever been "treated poorly" because I'm a "carebear" in null.

I was even sponsored into GoonWaffe, knowing that I had no interested in pvp and just wanted to build and sell stuff.

Playing with people is playing with people, and YMMV. Not "everyone" is treated like a worthelss piece of **** beause they like to build and sell ****, by our corp.

He's trying to twist me saying that more slots isn't enough, into me saying something I didn't even remotely say.

If only we had an area of space with no local and CCP ran the pvp loss rate of ships over a long span of time.

The problem is that, even discounting the inherent risks of living and manufacturing stuff in 0.0 (suppose you never get blown up or whatever), it is far less practical to do your industry there rather than hisec. Lack of slots is part of that, and probably one of the easiest to fix. The harder fixes are things like lack of resource flow crippling non-vertical industry operations (which handle everything from mining/research to final ship).

FWIW, Goonswarm members' experience of null are not representative of null in general. Not been a member myself, but have heard stories of how living in null went, and they simply do not match -- particularly when inconsiderate tryhard leadership gets involved.