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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
PavlikX
Shadows of the Day HeII Gate Alliance
9
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Posted - 2012.12.16 08:19:00 -
[121] - Quote
This is screen from my blockade against Sansha. Notice that there are no active TD devices on me, meantime optimal and falloff , well http://imgur.com/NOdHq I am not sure, but looks like single chance to cut off this TD madness is to kill NPC ship, then his TD affect will turn off. |
Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
91
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Posted - 2012.12.16 10:16:00 -
[122] - Quote
Updated my original post to have the new information and issues at the top (for any new comers to the thread) Thanks for all those who have posted with information about the behaviour of the NPC TDs. "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves." |
Kiteo Hatto
Equanimity Order
390
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Posted - 2012.12.16 15:52:00 -
[123] - Quote
PavlikX wrote:This is screen from my blockade against Sansha. Notice that there are no active TD devices on me, meantime optimal and falloff , well http://imgur.com/NOdHqI am not sure, but looks like single chance to cut off this TD madness is to kill NPC ship, then his TD affect will turn off.
Wow, can't believe CCP's "Fix". "That's okay it annoys me when people pile on new definitions to the word sandbox every time CCP does something they don't like." - Alara IonStorm GD is where 60% of threads make you dumber and 10% which provide you with entertainment, the remaining 30% is a mix of both. |
Zwo Zateki
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
33
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Posted - 2012.12.16 16:04:00 -
[124] - Quote
Nightmare + Tachyons + Microwarpdrive = 0 angular velocity = 100% hits even if TD'ed. Problem solved. |
Crash Lander
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
16
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Posted - 2012.12.16 16:36:00 -
[125] - Quote
PavlikX wrote:This is screen from my blockade against Sansha. Notice that there are no active TD devices on me, meantime optimal and falloff , well http://imgur.com/NOdHq
Same thing happened to me a few times. On the screen you can see the tracking disruption visual effect from the npc, but no indications of such in the hud. |
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe Against ALL Authorities
615
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Posted - 2012.12.17 10:30:00 -
[126] - Quote
Did some Sansha missions last night and it really is ridiculous. TD reduces my beam turret range to under 10 km in seconds. With some missions having 8 or more TD-ing ships you are in trouble. In the end I resorted to using a missile ship but I know CCP wants to let TD affect missiles next...I guess Minmatar space will become REALLY crowded soon, altough you have Serpentis with insane dampening there as well...
Terrible not thought out changes. CCP should be ashamed.
FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES ! Louis's epic skill guide v1.1 |
Ikonia
Royal Amarr Expeditions
37
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Posted - 2012.12.17 11:33:00 -
[127] - Quote
Am flying plexes in hi-, low and null sec. One toon on t3, one on hac, both set to omni.
After i did the first plexes and was hit by TD and ewar while they changed target my only and still remaining thought was - and still is: "Cool. They change target now, hehe! Like in wormholes ..."
Makes it a bit harder. Take care if you use drones. Have adapted tactics. Told a friend about, who does the same like me, but with only 1 account. His answer? "They change target? Hmm, not that i have noticed it."
Ok, what have i changed?
Ping Pong Maneuver brought in. 2 snipers, good distance to each other, bring NPCs between them. You wont see any AI once you found out how to make them change the target. This then is like target practicing. Thye try to reach one, but dont get him, while the other takes out 1 after 1 after 1 after 1 until they change and try again to fly to the other target and the while the second takes out 1 after 1 after 1 after 1. Naming this "AI" is ridiculous.
Triangle set defensive warp strategy. Set a warp point of the grid of a plex gate. Then warp into the plex. Once they target the false ship warp with it to there. Warp to gate. Warp in. Repeat. Time lost in comparison to before? 30 secs, so in all maybe 2 minutes? Just where is the I in the AI?
Kiting while hiding. Time the "AI" interactions. Youll be laughing. One ship (tank) kites the NPCs in a circle around his buddy while he snipers the targets from far distance. 1 taken out - activate cloak. Decloak - take 1 out - cloak. Never laughed that much before over "AI".
And there are like dozens of more simple tactics that disarm this kind of .. "AI". In fact it needs a bit of adapting, but once done it is far more easy than ever before. |
Snoodaard Thrasy
Yulai Guard Fleet Yards Yulai Federation
15
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Posted - 2012.12.17 11:43:00 -
[128] - Quote
Zwo Zateki wrote:Nightmare + Tachyons + Microwarpdrive = 0 angular velocity = 100% hits even if TD'ed. Problem solved.
I do not believe for a second that a Tachyon fitted Nightmare, tracking disrupted by say 8 Sansha cruisers, has no problem hitting those cruisers with its range reduced to ~15km and its tracking several times worse than it already was base. |
hmskrecik
TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance
42
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Posted - 2012.12.17 11:48:00 -
[129] - Quote
@Ikonia: personally I don't regard this new "Sleeper AI" a problem and in fact, this thread is not really dedicated to it. It's about NPC EWAR, being overpowered like hell. Here discussed is the matter of Tracking Disruptors which render gun ships useless while my personal peeve are Sensor Dampeners which are not far behind. |
Ikonia
Royal Amarr Expeditions
37
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Posted - 2012.12.17 12:00:00 -
[130] - Quote
hmskrecik wrote:@Ikonia: personally I don't regard this new "Sleeper AI" a problem and in fact, this thread is not really dedicated to it. It's about NPC EWAR, being overpowered like hell. Here discussed is the matter of Tracking Disruptors which render gun ships useless while my personal peeve are Sensor Dampeners which are not far behind.
Copy. But unchaining the ewar from the newly implemented AI i see literally the wrong way. Even IF TD renders a gunship useless, then you have to give them a new threat - thats all. If that is another toon, or some friends that came with you, or some drone(s) is the issue that needs to be adapted.
And it isnt "overpowered" by any meanings. All that was brought into the game was "agro mechanics" about which you have to learn and in which the solution is hidden. This appears overpowered until you find a solution to soften the result of what ever it is. And agro mechanics have been missing in Eve always. Now they are here. Adapt. :) |
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Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
102
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Posted - 2012.12.17 12:57:00 -
[131] - Quote
Bringing multiple people to a solo activity really isn't any kind of sensible long term solution. |
vice vortex
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
9
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Posted - 2012.12.17 19:44:00 -
[132] - Quote
is this fixed yet? |
Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
92
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Posted - 2012.12.17 20:56:00 -
[133] - Quote
vice vortex wrote:is this fixed yet? Nothing from CCP since the last fix, I assume they know as it's been reported in the feedback thread. Let's hope for a BS fix at least, more tweaks on the stacking and power would be nice though. "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves." |
Kraven90
Toxic Subprime Assets Inc. Yulai Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.12.17 21:38:00 -
[134] - Quote
friendly bump since every time i try to solo sansha anomalies my rage meter goes sky high. |
Assonyo
Unorthodox Operations Yulai Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.12.17 22:13:00 -
[135] - Quote
Same here, they pulled my maelstrom's falloff below 8km just yesterday, 4 Sancha BS. "It works 60% of the time EVERY time." |
Kheirozen
White Cross Militia
2
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Posted - 2012.12.18 03:50:00 -
[136] - Quote
I fly a Paladin with T2 Heavy Beams , all related gunnry skills to L5.
I have a 84km Opt/104km Fall off.
I did The Blockade lvl 4 against Sansha, i got to 6/10km Falloff with only 4 of them TD me.
And yes, even when they do stop to TD the effect stays unless you kill the ship.
I'm all about a bit of challenge, but that's just overkill for high sec NPC's. |
Jessica Danikov
Ubuntu Inc. Varangon Tagma
24
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Posted - 2012.12.18 05:24:00 -
[137] - Quote
I live in Providence, ratting/anoms with turreted ships on Sansha rats is something I'm heavily invested in and is my primary source of income.
I haven't been able to even go near the belts for 2 weeks, now... this bug is really starting to hurt. |
Semvar
A Posteriori Eventus
0
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Posted - 2012.12.18 06:22:00 -
[138] - Quote
This is absolutely ridiculous. I had a Sansha BS in a level 4 mission burning away from me at 40K and ZERO transversal with a single TD on me and I couldn't hit him and it could easily tank my drone damage (granted I don't have Amarr drone spec 5). As of this evening, the TD's are still being permanently applied, even when the module isn't turned on (can even still see the debuff visual effect while no TD being reported to the UI).
I don't care what the excuse is. A single TD should not be enough to completely disable a turret ship and completely mitigate the DPS of that ship permanently. At least before this, I could do about half damage with scorch at range with a single TD on me. Two and I was useless. |
Crash Lander
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
16
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Posted - 2012.12.18 15:14:00 -
[139] - Quote
Step1) Try to solo the Amarr epic post patch. Step 2) Pull your hair out as you can't hit jack most of the time Step 3) Wait for 30 minutes until the NPCs stop TDing. Kill one of them. Step 4) NPCs turn TD back on. Step 5) Goto step 2
Then wonder to yourself how this was tested. Then realize it wasn't. You know what, a hard mission is actually fun. This is not hard, it's just dull, boring and annoying as ... . |
Maximille Biagge
The Eden Trading International Corporation Curatores Veritatis Alliance
68
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Posted - 2012.12.19 00:02:00 -
[140] - Quote
So i've been playing around with fits and found I can just about get through a Forsaken hub with an Apoc with scorch and 1 tracking enhancer (amarr Battleship V, sharpshooter V and so on).
Anything less and if you get a 4 TDing BS spawn you will most likely not take down a BS before they get out of range. Scorch only hits to 16 km then.
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Larloch TheAncient
Alpha Arms and Manufacturing What Alliance
17
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Posted - 2012.12.20 15:23:00 -
[141] - Quote
While I almost HATE to admit it, the recent path (where they "worked" on the percentages helped alot.
TD'ing still cripples your Isk/H capability and is very very difficult to run plexes.
However this is a vast improvement over what it was when it first was introduced in which it was litterally "impossible" to run them with "only turrent" dps. |
Inkarr Hashur
Sine Nobilitatis Mildly Sober
11
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Posted - 2012.12.20 15:24:00 -
[142] - Quote
Semvar wrote:This is absolutely ridiculous. I had a Sansha BS in a level 4 mission burning away from me at 40K and ZERO transversal with a single TD on me and I couldn't hit him and it could easily tank my drone damage (granted I don't have Amarr drone spec 5). As of this evening, the TD's are still being permanently applied, even when the module isn't turned on (can even still see the debuff visual effect while no TD being reported to the UI).
I don't care what the excuse is. A single TD should not be enough to completely disable a turret ship and completely mitigate the DPS of that ship permanently. At least before this, I could do about half damage with scorch at range with a single TD on me. Two and I was useless. Amarr drone spec 5 wouldn't help. |
Da Grim Reaper
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2012.12.20 17:48:00 -
[143] - Quote
Did Blockade against Sansha, took me 2 hours, due to lack of tracking in Arty ship. Did blockade against Angels, took me less than 1 hour in same ship.
I had no worry of being popped, I just had to slowly eat down the disrupting ships with Tech 1 drones because my guns just would not hit.
1 disruptor was not so bad, 2 was still doable, but with 3 on me I could do nothing but gain range and then when out of decent disruptor range, send them a long range greeting. (or wait for my drones if they were not being shot)
Mission is doable, but very long. |
Alayna Le'line
Battery Acid Skinny Dippers
42
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Posted - 2012.12.22 14:24:00 -
[144] - Quote
I still got permadamped down to like 15km range in Recon 1/3 against Serpentis, by the time I was actually able to start DOING something all ships had already spawned and were hammering me from THEIR optimal and I actually had to warp out. Wouldn't be too bad if there wasn't always at least one that stays at 50km range or I'd bring in a Blasterthron, but nooo, then I have to chase one that stays 50km out or redock and change ships/guns to get that last one down.
Between the nerf to mission income, the stealth nerf to salvage, the new drone AI and these ridiculous EWAR situations missions just aren't viable to sustain any sort of playstyle. |
Sodohm
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.12.23 11:31:00 -
[145] - Quote
Alayna Le'line wrote:I still got permadamped down to like 15km range in Recon 1/3 against Serpentis, by the time I was actually able to start DOING something all ships had already spawned and were hammering me from THEIR optimal and I actually had to warp out. Wouldn't be too bad if there wasn't always at least one that stays at 50km range or I'd bring in a Blasterthron, but nooo, then I have to chase one that stays 50km out or redock and change ships/guns to get that last one down.
Between the nerf to mission income, the stealth nerf to salvage, the new drone AI and these ridiculous EWAR situations missions just aren't viable to sustain any sort of playstyle.
You know you're not supposed to fight in recon, right ? |
Rocket D'ni
x Infected x
0
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Posted - 2012.12.23 13:27:00 -
[146] - Quote
Larloch TheAncient wrote:While I almost HATE to admit it, the recent path (where they "worked" on the percentages helped alot.
TD'ing still cripples your Isk/H capability and is very very difficult to run plexes.
However this is a vast improvement over what it was when it first was introduced in which it was litterally "impossible" to run them with "only turrent" dps.
Lol i cant imagine what it was like before last patch but after the expansion.
As it stands now what i do is not possible for making my iskies in L5's. I never lost the full 4x tracking disruptors that were on field. Thought they'd dimish after the couple minutes I spent killing the 2 scramble frigates with drones i had to deploy no wait pull them in theyre dying. Ok deploy, ah almost got the frigate dead but need to pull them. Ok redeploy killed it this time, move on to next ..no wait better pull that one drone back in.......
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Alayna Le'line
Battery Acid Skinny Dippers
42
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Posted - 2012.12.23 13:28:00 -
[147] - Quote
Sodohm wrote:Alayna Le'line wrote:I still got permadamped down to like 15km range in Recon 1/3 against Serpentis, by the time I was actually able to start DOING something all ships had already spawned and were hammering me from THEIR optimal and I actually had to warp out. Wouldn't be too bad if there wasn't always at least one that stays at 50km range or I'd bring in a Blasterthron, but nooo, then I have to chase one that stays 50km out or redock and change ships/guns to get that last one down.
Between the nerf to mission income, the stealth nerf to salvage, the new drone AI and these ridiculous EWAR situations missions just aren't viable to sustain any sort of playstyle. You know you're not supposed to fight in recon, right ?
I know I have the option not to fight in recon, yes. At least, it used to be an option. |
hmskrecik
TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance
42
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Posted - 2012.12.23 17:39:00 -
[148] - Quote
Sodohm wrote:Alayna Le'line wrote:I still got permadamped down to like 15km range in Recon 1/3 against Serpentis, by the time I was actually able to start DOING something all ships had already spawned and were hammering me from THEIR optimal and I actually had to warp out. Wouldn't be too bad if there wasn't always at least one that stays at 50km range or I'd bring in a Blasterthron, but nooo, then I have to chase one that stays 50km out or redock and change ships/guns to get that last one down.
Between the nerf to mission income, the stealth nerf to salvage, the new drone AI and these ridiculous EWAR situations missions just aren't viable to sustain any sort of playstyle. You know you're not supposed to fight in recon, right ? Bounties on those battleships give some indication on the contrary... |
Tildah
InterSun Freelance Moon Warriors
0
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Posted - 2012.12.24 02:14:00 -
[149] - Quote
Is this considered "fixed" because if it is might as well dump all sansha missions in the garbage.
Tildah
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Zoltan Lazar
17
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Posted - 2012.12.24 07:29:00 -
[150] - Quote
This doesn't seem fixed to me. I tried to run a CHAIN Mindflood Distribution Base earlier today. My 45km falloff was 8km half the time, and less than 15km most of the time. I had to warp in and out with sensor boosters so I could lock and alpha the TD'ing frigs.
Tracking disruption gives far too much of an advantage to missile boats. It's almost worse than ECM, since you can fit ECCM to mostly get around ECM, and ECM is so clearly impossible to work with that CCP has nerfed to to a manageable level.
The best way to fix tracking disruption is to make NPC have severe stacking penalties, so that multiple TD'ing enemies means that you're simply perma TD'd in an ~30% way, rather than super disrupted half the time and mostly disrupted the rest of the time.
As well, tracking computers should give a direct reduction in TD effectiveness, similar to capacitor batteries and neuts/nos. |
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