Fix Tracking Disruption on NPCs so that it is now correctly applied to your ship.

It was the same last time they changed NPC e-war, and it took something like 1-2 weeks of forum whining before they got around to fixing it.

Marauders need a buff, because I swear its the most annoying thing getting ECM'd in a pally, so easy to jam it, Make it stop!

Any more updates on this?

I find it hard to believe no one else is suffering the issues that have been had,

Stop whining - adopt, brainless computer program is beating you , what does it say about you ?

Even pre-patch any turreted ship (exception Auto-Cannons) was hard to over-come the bombardment of TD's from some Sansha Missions. Even with a Meta4 Tachyon Beam with Navy Radio on Blockade I was gimped down to measly 20km but my Fall-Off remained at its normal range. I can run Blockade in my Sleipner using T2 425's with Barrage and get the orgy of TD's but I would still be hitting them at max dmg within my fall-off range. I just think if they have buffed the TD's (NPC) given that Beams/Pulses have horrible tracking speed the sheer effect of that alone just makes any non-ac turret just useless, imho.

Even pre-patch any turreted ship (exception Auto-Cannons) was hard to over-come the bombardment of TD's from some Sansha Missions. Even with a Meta4 Tachyon Beam with Navy Radio on Blockade I was gimped down to measly 20km but my Fall-Off remained at its normal range. I can run Blockade in my Sleipner using T2 425's with Barrage and get the orgy of TD's but I would still be hitting them at max dmg within my fall-off range. I just think if they have buffed the TD's (NPC) given that Beams/Pulses have horrible tracking speed the sheer effect of that alone just makes any non-ac turret just useless, imho.

Have anyone tried training the new anti-ewar skills?, i know it's a long shot... but it might help.

Have anyone tried training the new anti-ewar skills?, i know it's a long shot... but it might help.

New? Please explain.

Radar Sensor Compensation, Gravimetric Sensor Compensation, Magnetometric Sensor Compensation and Ladar Sensor Compensation skills have been added to the market for 180000 ISK each

These increase their specific sensor strength by 4% per level
All rank 2
Electronics Level IV prerequisite
Primary attribute is intelligence, with memory as secondary

It was the same last time they changed NPC e-war, and it took something like 1-2 weeks of forum whining before they got around to fixing it.

Excuse me, what did they actually fix? Just yesterday I've run Serpentis Blockade and upon second spawn I was permanently reduced to 15-20km locking range until I killed but last EWAR cruiser.

Excuse me, what did they actually fix? Just yesterday I've run Serpentis Blockade and upon second spawn I was permanently reduced to 15-20km locking range until I killed but last EWAR cruiser.

I was referring to the npc ewar changes that was part of the Incursion patch, in caldari space you would be permanently jammed if there was 3 or more ewar ships on grid. What got fixed/rebalanced, and if there is a problem with the sansha TD's, it's going to get fixed as well.

i live in providence as well and the new tracking disruption has become a major issue for my abaddon now, since i don't have any missile skills my only options are to use 2 tracking computer with cap booster on the abaddon or use a nightmare.

i don't like both options and i think the new tracking disruption has to be looked into. The change for PVE is too drastic in my opinion.

its a bad situation, but I suggest trying losing a tracking comp for a target painter and try avoiding using light drones all together. My mach/'snake set up is having fewer problems with blood raiders even getting neuted at TD'd.

for a single ship i don't know what to suggest, perhaps my dual boxing makes it easier.

Not sure how a Target Painter will help when the optimal range and falloff of the guns is below their orbit. Issue's seem to be that more than the tracking itself.

Second point is true, but I shouldn't have to pay for a second account in EVE just to run PVE content on my own.

The target painter is EWAR, it's main use is to increase the amount of threat your ship is doing in hope of getting the npcs to ignore your drones when you have them out. That's the new system, threat management, soif you can manage the amount of threat you put out, at least you can let your drones out to kill tacking npc frigs.

Other than that, the TP doesn't help, TPing a battleship is useless unless you are shooting capital ship guns at it.

Quickly coming here to let you guys know the reports mentioning NPCs using tracking disruption too often are being looked at.

Even pre-patch any turreted ship (exception Auto-Cannons) was hard to over-come the bombardment of TD's from some Sansha Missions. Even with a Meta4 Tachyon Beam with Navy Radio on Blockade I was gimped down to measly 20km but my Fall-Off remained at its normal range. I can run Blockade in my Sleipner using T2 425's with Barrage and get the orgy of TD's but I would still be hitting them at max dmg within my fall-off range. I just think if they have buffed the TD's (NPC) given that Beams/Pulses have horrible tracking speed the sheer effect of that alone just makes any non-ac turret just useless, imho.

wish a dev would post something it saying whether or not it's working as intended or what not

I'm looking for feedback from other players who are doing PVE against Sansha NPCS and how the Tracking Disruptor changes have effected them.
I would like to hear from players doing missions with large numbers of Sansha ships (such as The Blockade) and how hard the effects are.

if it doesn't destroy my PC i'll try and make a video with the tracking disruption so everyone can see my pally flail about like a fish out of water *flop* *flop**flop*

update, decided to try something else with my normal fit and went belt ratting yayyyy

i run into a spawn of 2 cruisers and 2 loyal cruisers(td)

Both loyals TD me

radio large with mega modulated pulse energy beam- 10km optimal 12km falloff o.oo74 tracking rat is 7km away from me cannot touch him

of course not, your tracking is way to slow even if you web that target down.
You need 2 webs + pulse lasers to kill a frig.

I'm running Lvl 3 Amarr missions at the moment for standing.

Admittedly, I'm fairly low skilled but I was happily running through them with Harbinger with heavy pulse till the patch.

Wow, sansha blockade is now really tough! TDs took my range and tracking down to less than 1k with IN radio. Weirdly though after I'd warped out and back again a couple of times they stopped TDing even though I hadn't killed all the TD ships. I'm only using Tech 1 drones so not that bothered about losing them. What I've found is that I lose the first flight but a second flight doesn't get hit at all. Might just be me though.

This isn't a complaint btw, I'm not bothered about missions at all. I'm only doing them or standing, and I'm only doing security because courier missions were making me lose the will to live. I don't want to even talk about doing 3 sets of noob missions....

I wonder why everyone here is pondering on solutions and nobody is suggesting not doing missions alone? Yes, I too have run lvl 4s alone for forever, cause we all know there was simply no need and no benefit of not doing them alone. But I was in a corp for a while that ran them together and it was actually quite fun, though completely overpowered at that time. Maybe CCP wants the PvE part of EVE to be more of a multiplayer thing.

It says a lot that when CCP introduces target switching for NPCs we only worry about our drones...

Stop whining - adopt, brainless computer program is beating you , what does it say about you ?

we got DEV'd our voices have been heard now for the live results show next week

Stop whining - adopt, brainless computer program is beating you , what does it say about you ?

While you are at it, please evaluate sensor damps too.

TBH a complete look at NPCs in general and the way they work, the power of their EWAR, range of their weapons (80km torps) would be nice.

I would love to see the day when NPCs are smart and challenging though not hard to kill still, there needs to be a nice balance in the challenge of PVE and the ease of ISK. Most scrubs in EVE don't have nice moons to buy them everything and have to grind for hours for their ISK.

There is little one can do to adapt to this change other than move over to missile ships.

There is little one can do to adapt to this change other than move over to missile ships.

The screenshot shows three NPC ships Disrupting an optimal range of 50km down to 9km, with 11km falloff.
There have been situations where this has happened and the NPCs will orbit you at 40km meaning you CAN'T hit them with lasers using the longest range ammo.

There have been worse cases reported. Currently the only way to "adapt" is to never use gun ships when flying solo against Sansha NPCs

Nice summary but just one thing: All missile ships worth running lv 4s with need light and/or medium drones to function properly.

When you connect to the game occasionaly like me, that TD increase become a real problem, .
I can't relax myself alone for a few minutes in a mission or in anomalies, the game became totally useless for me.
CCP is pushing me outside the game, and I don't have only one account.

Yes keep holding players by hand instead of letting them adapt - for example as fitting long range guns and use new module that you introduced tha gets you 100k away , and i dont know outsmarting stupid ai instead of whining.

This is what the patch notes meant by "The effect is now correctly applied to your ship." You used to be able to wait 45-60 seconds for the TDs to turn off and then go to town with your guns. This is no longer the case. The Sansha TDs were always stupidly overpowered, but since they were bugged so that the NPCs forgot to turn them on about 80% of the time it worked out to be pretty balanced.

Yes keep holding players by hand instead of letting them adapt - for example as fitting long range guns and use new module that you introduced tha gets you 100k away , and i dont know outsmarting stupid ai instead of whining.

Im really interested if other races ewar was changed in the same fashion. I mean the fact, that tracking disruption is constant even from battleships. Do the dampeners from serpentis and ecm from guristas work the same way now?

Angel painters seem to be still chance based from my expirience.

Should just take out the E-War entirely.

It's hard enough to deal with scramming frigates that target your drones while tanking 2k+ DPS simultaneously. Don't need to be unable to target a damn thing in addition to that.

I just attempted a forsaken hub again after todays patch and noticed that in the short periods of time where the NPCs stopped tracking disrupting me (icons and bar dissapeared) The effects were still beign applied ot my ship.

So I was still feeling the effects of tracking disruption even though the NPCs appeared ot have stopped disrupting my ship?

Has anyone else noticed the TD effects last even after they are no longer disrupting?

(aha, i see im not the only one)

Patch notes: "Corrected the chance percentage that an enemy NPC will use tracking disruption on a player's ship."

So I assumed things would be back to "normal".

The only thing that has changed is that the tracking disrupting rats stop for 3-4 seconds and then start a new disruption cycle. So now you get disrupted by 90% of the rats permanently in stead of 100%.

Useless!

Turret based ratting is still impossible.

Has anyone else noticed the TD effects last even after they are no longer disrupting?

(aha, i see im not the only one)

The target painter is EWAR, it's main use is to increase the amount of threat your ship is doing in hope of getting the npcs to ignore your drones when you have them out. That's the new system, threat management, soif you can manage the amount of threat you put out, at least you can let your drones out to kill tacking npc frigs.

Other than that, the TP doesn't help, TPing a battleship is useless unless you are shooting capital ship guns at it.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong (seriously, correct me), but the comment that TPing a BS is useless seems odd off. Let's say that a Sansha battleship has a signature radius of 350, and my pulse lasers have a signature of 400. By painting the battleship, I've just increased my damage output by 14.3%, right? I can't think of a single gunnery skill that can give that kind of return in short order. Personally, I fit 2x TPs on my anomaly-running Paladin so that I can switch targets quickly without waiting on the TP to finish cycling. Especially in the case that you're a new player, I can't think of a better way to get your damage up so quickly.

Do i understand this right? CCP just removed the visible timer but didnt change anything else and called it a 'fix'?
Wow.

but with a long-range Apoc sniper (204 dps at 146 km), they were no problem at all.

There might be instances where the situation allows for such an option, but in most cases even if your range remains at workable levels I think the reduction in tracking speed will make it very difficult to hit - and mwding towards the target with a battleship hampers the tanking ability of the ship to such a degree that its not worth it. The overall reduction in efficiency with setups that can overcome the tracking problem makes it not strictly impossible to kill a target with a turret boat perhaps, but certainly pointless.

Missions were intended for solo work, because if your corp mates are all offline you can still go and do some missions.
Incursions and wh's were made for fleet so that you need a fleet and people to be online.

Why would someone do missions when incursions give more isk and are easier than missions now ?

The bigger the range the less tracking you need....Im more worried about breaking tanks with 204 DPS to be honest.

True, the MJD makes the range such that tracking is almost irrelevant. 204 DPS is fine for the frigs. It's ok for the BS's, but takes a while. However, I'm using Meta4 T1 beam lasers. T2 laser will more than double the DPS, according to EFT, so that's what I'm training next.

Also, the TD sometimes stops after one cycle, but sometimes they keep restarting it. At least in the Amarr epic arc missions that I'm doing now...

This is screen from my blockade against Sansha. Notice that there are no active TD devices on me, meantime optimal and falloff , well
http://imgur.com/NOdHq
I am not sure, but looks like single chance to cut off this TD madness is to kill NPC ship, then his TD affect will turn off.

This is screen from my blockade against Sansha. Notice that there are no active TD devices on me, meantime optimal and falloff , well
http://imgur.com/NOdHq

Nightmare + Tachyons + Microwarpdrive = 0 angular velocity = 100% hits even if TD'ed. Problem solved.

@Ikonia: personally I don't regard this new "Sleeper AI" a problem and in fact, this thread is not really dedicated to it. It's about NPC EWAR, being overpowered like hell. Here discussed is the matter of Tracking Disruptors which render gun ships useless while my personal peeve are Sensor Dampeners which are not far behind.

is this fixed yet?

This is absolutely ridiculous. I had a Sansha BS in a level 4 mission burning away from me at 40K and ZERO transversal with a single TD on me and I couldn't hit him and it could easily tank my drone damage (granted I don't have Amarr drone spec 5). As of this evening, the TD's are still being permanently applied, even when the module isn't turned on (can even still see the debuff visual effect while no TD being reported to the UI).

I don't care what the excuse is. A single TD should not be enough to completely disable a turret ship and completely mitigate the DPS of that ship permanently. At least before this, I could do about half damage with scorch at range with a single TD on me. Two and I was useless.

I still got permadamped down to like 15km range in Recon 1/3 against Serpentis, by the time I was actually able to start DOING something all ships had already spawned and were hammering me from THEIR optimal and I actually had to warp out. Wouldn't be too bad if there wasn't always at least one that stays at 50km range or I'd bring in a Blasterthron, but nooo, then I have to chase one that stays 50km out or redock and change ships/guns to get that last one down.

Between the nerf to mission income, the stealth nerf to salvage, the new drone AI and these ridiculous EWAR situations missions just aren't viable to sustain any sort of playstyle.

While I almost HATE to admit it, the recent path (where they "worked" on the percentages helped alot.


TD'ing still cripples your Isk/H capability and is very very difficult to run plexes.



However this is a vast improvement over what it was when it first was introduced in which it was litterally "impossible" to run them with "only turrent" dps.

You know you're not supposed to fight in recon, right ?

You know you're not supposed to fight in recon, right ?

Adapt?

Fit an MWD on your Paladin and use the web bonus to hold them rather than bitching like a little ******, at least when you are TD'd you can still bloody fire unlike the holy god mode ECM, goes for both pve and pvp.

You sound mad. And we all thank you for the useful post. Burn to within 6km of every td'ing ship in a battleship that needs cap to run its reps. Good stuff.

Adapt?

Fit an MWD on your Paladin and use the web bonus to hold them rather than bitching like a little ******, at least when you are TD'd you can still bloody fire unlike the holy god mode ECM, goes for both pve and pvp.

Yep, lets MWD into less than 10KM range using an armor brick of a ship that also has severe cap, powergrid, and tracking issues without said MWD. Lets "Adapt"! I love people giving advice when they clearly have no idea what they're talking about.

I love how carebears complain about cap issues, pg issues and tracking issues when flying a PVE ship. Adapt or **** off, simple as. No wonder half you idiots reside in highsec or farm anoms.

You still sound so mad. Its christmas m8.

10 Friends of mine quit eve because of hard npc changes.
So much for new AI.

Confirming that for example Sansha Blockade level 4 is currently virtually impossible to complete in a laser battleship. I don't know if this is intentional or not ( Amarr in general seems to be EVE on hard mode) but it would seem kinda silly if you were forced to crosstrain - especially when Blood raiders and Sansha's nation are the only rat factions laser damage profile is any good against.

There also seems to be a bug that at least occasionally TD is applied as long as the TDing ships are alive even if the TD from the rats should't be active based on the HUD EWAR notifications. This happened in level 4 Sansha Pirate invasion (Centus Slave Lords, I believe).

After retribution hit the only gun boat i am still able to use in anomalies is the legion with 2x tracking computers with tracking scripts.

When the tracking disruption ships spawn i just aproach at 0, web and shoot them down without any problem, but the isk / hour is pretty poor since it doesn't have the same dps output as a battleship and you allways have to move.

The other solution is to use drone boats with sentries.

We could also keep this topic alive with the hope it's going to get fixed for real this time.

Yes keep holding players by hand instead of letting them adapt - for example as fitting long range guns and use new module that you introduced tha gets you 100k away , and i dont know outsmarting stupid ai instead of whining.

It's funny that E-War is completely broken for years, and noone ever considered the DR as a solution, lolz.

what's DR

Perhaps he means diminishing returns. That certain modules are less effective if they are used frequently within a short period of time.

what's DR

It's really bad in 'The Blockade' with Sansha, my guns are completely useless unless I switch to beams and fill my ship with tracking mods, and the bug where the TD still affects even after the icon is gone is still there. I'm throwing together a Domi for all of my Sansha missions at least until the bug is gone.

Sad but true.
Dear developers, if you can not handle resolving the problem, just turn it off damn it!!! After this you can freely investigate and resolve until next end of Maja calendar.
PS Happy new year.

Kind of a shame how little communication there is on a fairly significant and vocal issue.

This where the drone captains laugh and tell you all to adapt and HTFU. Ah, sweet revenge!

If I would be in battleship, there is no way how to kill them because as battleship is slow I could not set short orbit and therefore could not kill them.

I would like to know if there is any other way than switching to rockets (and caldari ships). Even in Legion and short orbit if I have 3x TD I usually do not hit (even I have 1x tracking computer). Rats repair faster than I hit them. If I would be in battleship, there is no way how to kill them because as battleship is slow I could not set short orbit and therefore could not kill them.

Make tracking distruption from NPC with less penalty or set it with some cooldown for which I could shoot down at least one ship or just say that PVE is only for Caldari (rockets).

Kraven90: I was writing about 0.0 anomalies/DEDs (Sansha space) where if I get 3-4xTD, it is very hard to kill something with legion. I can aproach target and fly manualy but as I was writing before, its annoying and stupid how big penalty TD gives. If I had a tengu instead of legion there would not be any problem :/

heh... not even a tengu would solve our problem since missiles will get tracking disrupted as well in the future patches. (rumors)

best bet is to try sentry boats

Haha, null and mission bears, adapt, they wanted pve to resemble pvp abit more, so better fit for that and be able to get some speed and get in close with webs.

Stop crying so much and deal with it instead, its very much possible to come around this new change, having to change/adapt your fit was kinda the idea behind the entire change.

Haha, null and mission bears, adapt, they wanted pve to resemble pvp abit more, so better fit for that and be able to get some speed and get in close with webs.

Problem is that in PVE are those penalties way more higher than you can dream if you use them on your ship in PVP. Why does npc give higher penalties?

PS: there have to be some pve because you must have isk for pvp ;)

Here is a nice screenshot showing the bug where Tracking Disruptors are effecting your ship but not being used by the NPCs.
(the ranges were from all four ships applying the effects) PICTURE LINK

I just posted in the issues thread again and sent CCP Affinity a message on Twitter.

Still trying to at least get SOMETHING back from CCP about this, I will keep you all informed.

A response from CCP about issues.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2446102#post2446102

Start submitting bug reports I guess!

Lost a tachyon-fitted Apoc to a pack of elite sansha frigs this morning - tracking disruption rendered my turrets useless, "advanced" AI frigates ate away my drones, I've been warp scrambled and eventually reduced to pod. Great experience, what can I say...

I'm quite a new pilot and just started level 2 missions with my shiny Omen. However after 2 missions I started to get missions with 2-3 ships that use tracking disruptors on me, this takes my weapons from 20-30km to 2-8km + I cannot hit them at that range.

My skills are not good enough for my drones to kill those ships that TD me :(


Had to quit the mission. My tank is fine, but I could not kill/hit them....

I filed a couple of bug reports.

Ive ran into near perma jam and definitely perma tracking disruption.

My bug reports were responded with "We are aware of this issue".


So i invested 3 days in PI skills to make some passive income while i train for missles/caldari ships.

Im really looking around at the moment and wondering if it was a mistake to come back to EVE. Besides graphics the game seems to be moving backward instead of forward.

same here... Sansha Missions like Blockade are like undoable.

TD effect still beeing applied to your ship however npc- module isn't active anymore can be confirmed as well.

Debuffs are only gone, when the target that using it invisibly is destroyed.


...filling bug report...

just ran 2 sansha blockades (lvl4 in lowsec), one in loki, the 2nd in my machariel, doesn't took longer than usual, just had to be a bit more carefull managing drones since they took aggro more often....


same regarding several anoms (combat ones with sanshas) still being TD but no more effect tan usual


maybe closing in and managing transversal speed could be the answer?

just ran 2 sansha blockades (lvl4 in lowsec), one in loki, the 2nd in my machariel, doesn't took longer than usual, just had to be a bit more carefull managing drones since they took aggro more often....


same regarding several anoms (combat ones with sanshas) still being TD but no more effect tan usual


maybe closing in and managing transversal speed could be the answer?

does sansha affect fall off at all if you have noticed? it seems alot of matar players are having no problem at all while us pulse/beam shooters cant hit afor beans

does sansha affect fall off at all if you have noticed? it seems alot of matar players are having no problem at all while us pulse/beam shooters cant hit afor beans

as far as i can tell, both range and tracking are affected, but i haven't noticed it affecting me as much as some describe here.

i do agree tho that in some occasion, the effect last even when no npc are TDing you tho (easy to notice when you remain TD in an empty room, and this is nothing to do with the cycle cause it last

Do you guys actually think, that CCP will change this? They simply just want MONEY! If you dont have 2 accos and good ships with good skills in them, YOU CAN-¦T DO lvl4 MISSIONS OR ANOMALYS IN THIS GAME! PERIOD!

So, how to solve this problem? Ok i-¦ll tell you guys. Start another acco and make it do battleship and fast! Laser or whatever you prefer. When you think this other fella is good enuff for fleeting with your current pilot, then go fleet with him and start popping those bastards for good. And remember...you have to buy plexes for this new fella (or both), with real money, if you dont have enuff ISK float to cover these accos. Thats a simple fact of a matter fellas. Deal with it.

Devs just cant get rich, when peoples pay for few months first and then start to use game income to pay for their playing. Mark my words fellas. But if you think that they just simply could take the possibility out from the game to pay your plex with ISK, then youre wrong. That happens to be the main structure of the game in the beginning. So that rules out that issue. They just cant do that. This is how to force players to pay plexes for real money longer period. Aint it beautiful? :D

Well guys. You just have to chew this situation for a while and then make a choice to start another acco or pay your current acco with real money forever. Or stop your career as a space pilot for good. Its your choice dudes. Yours only.

-Johannes Kastaja