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Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
191
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 16:40:00 -
[361] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:What you're saying is that it's OK for hi-sec to be grossly overpowered because anyone can use hisec and no-one is forced to stop using it. In other words, why should CCP waste time and resources enabling playstyles you personally are not interested in?
I will give you credit in that you are frank and open about your indifference to game balance and the enjoyment of the game of people who do different things than you in it. It saves a lot of tedious arguing about what you really meant, and for that I'm sure we all thank you.
However, those of us taking a larger view are definitely going to disagree with you on this fundamental principle
I think you are taking a bit too much of a passive aggressive approach assuming what I want because I asked you a question.
You seem to think I'm defending highsec. I actually spend about equal amount of time in all 3 securities (would rather spend more time in w-space but alas not at this time).
And I'm not indifferent to game balance. I firmly believe it doesn't exist, nor should it. Balance is a word used for carebears. It's a mentality used for people who think not only can do what they want, it should be given to them.
Eve is MEANT to be unbalanced. That's the point! It's a paper rock scissors game. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |
Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
191
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 16:49:00 -
[362] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Malcanis wrote:What you're saying is that it's OK for hi-sec to be grossly overpowered because anyone can use hisec and no-one is forced to stop using it. In other words, why should CCP waste time and resources enabling playstyles you personally are not interested in?
I will give you credit in that you are frank and open about your indifference to game balance and the enjoyment of the game of people who do different things than you in it. It saves a lot of tedious arguing about what you really meant, and for that I'm sure we all thank you.
However, those of us taking a larger view are definitely going to disagree with you on this fundamental principle Who cares about game balance, ~my highsec experience~ is something you can all enjoy. AFKing a mackinaw on ice in highsec is easy, low risk and fun. Try it. Agreed, if there's one thing that should be discouraged in a sandbox game, it's incentivizing players to move out of the starter areas and create their own idea of a community. That sort of thing needs to be harshly discouraged, and CCP have done a good job of that. Let's hope they continue to quell any dangerous, subversize and destructive notions that any of us should do anything differently to any of the others!
Why? If it's a sandbox and you're given choices, then why should you be incentivized to leave? If anyone/thing wants you away and gone, why have that there in the first place? There's already rules about terrorizing newbie pilots, but nothing saying it's wrong to do incursions/lvl 4 missions, manufacture or have trade hubs in highsec.
So now you are indeed taking the sandbox element out of the picture thinking that high/low/null is a set value of "level" of gameplay.
Guess what, it isn't. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
6756
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 16:56:00 -
[363] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Malcanis wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Malcanis wrote:What you're saying is that it's OK for hi-sec to be grossly overpowered because anyone can use hisec and no-one is forced to stop using it. In other words, why should CCP waste time and resources enabling playstyles you personally are not interested in?
I will give you credit in that you are frank and open about your indifference to game balance and the enjoyment of the game of people who do different things than you in it. It saves a lot of tedious arguing about what you really meant, and for that I'm sure we all thank you.
However, those of us taking a larger view are definitely going to disagree with you on this fundamental principle Who cares about game balance, ~my highsec experience~ is something you can all enjoy. AFKing a mackinaw on ice in highsec is easy, low risk and fun. Try it. Agreed, if there's one thing that should be discouraged in a sandbox game, it's incentivizing players to move out of the starter areas and create their own idea of a community. That sort of thing needs to be harshly discouraged, and CCP have done a good job of that. Let's hope they continue to quell any dangerous, subversize and destructive notions that any of us should do anything differently to any of the others! Why? If it's a sandbox and you're given choices, then why should you be incentivized to leave? If anyone/thing wants you away and gone, why have that there in the first place? There's already rules about terrorizing newbie pilots, but nothing saying it's wrong to do incursions/lvl 4 missions, manufacture or have trade hubs in highsec. So now you are indeed taking the sandbox element out of the picture thinking that high/low/null is a set value of "level" of gameplay. Guess what, it isn't.
It's like you're using words that I'm reading, but we think they mean very different things. Apparently making 0.0 industry remotely as good as that in hi-sec is "saying it's wrong to do incursions/lvl 4 missions, manufacture or have trade hubs in highsec" in your lexicon, and I just can't communicate across a barrier that wide.
Well I doubt we're going to agree on anything, and I'm even more sceptical that I'll get anything useful out of discussing this any further with you, so fly safe.
MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
195
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 17:06:00 -
[364] - Quote
Double post. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |
Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
195
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 17:11:00 -
[365] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:Malcanis wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Malcanis wrote:What you're saying is that it's OK for hi-sec to be grossly overpowered because anyone can use hisec and no-one is forced to stop using it. In other words, why should CCP waste time and resources enabling playstyles you personally are not interested in?
I will give you credit in that you are frank and open about your indifference to game balance and the enjoyment of the game of people who do different things than you in it. It saves a lot of tedious arguing about what you really meant, and for that I'm sure we all thank you.
However, those of us taking a larger view are definitely going to disagree with you on this fundamental principle Who cares about game balance, ~my highsec experience~ is something you can all enjoy. AFKing a mackinaw on ice in highsec is easy, low risk and fun. Try it. Agreed, if there's one thing that should be discouraged in a sandbox game, it's incentivizing players to move out of the starter areas and create their own idea of a community. That sort of thing needs to be harshly discouraged, and CCP have done a good job of that. Let's hope they continue to quell any dangerous, subversize and destructive notions that any of us should do anything differently to any of the others! Why? If it's a sandbox and you're given choices, then why should you be incentivized to leave? If anyone/thing wants you away and gone, why have that there in the first place? There's already rules about terrorizing newbie pilots, but nothing saying it's wrong to do incursions/lvl 4 missions, manufacture or have trade hubs in highsec. So now you are indeed taking the sandbox element out of the picture thinking that high/low/null is a set value of "level" of gameplay. Guess what, it isn't. It's like you're using words that I'm reading, but we think they mean very different things. Apparently making 0.0 industry remotely as good as that in hi-sec is "saying it's wrong to do incursions/lvl 4 missions, manufacture or have trade hubs in highsec" in your lexicon, and I just can't communicate across a barrier that wide. Well I doubt we're going to agree on anything, and I'm even more sceptical that I'll get anything useful out of discussing this any further with you, so fly safe.
"Apparently" is where you make things go wrong when you post. Again you're passively aggressively insinuating things I'm saying. My response to what you said is exactly that; a respo9nse to what you said. It's not an ideal. That's where your discussion goes wrong, you wish to lump things together into some sort of kneejerk response and therefore makes it seem like you aren't trying for any sort of impartial "balance" (which shouldn't exist anyways).
You don't have to take away from 1 thing to give to another! Trust me, I care more about NON highsec than I care about highsec, I just realize that there is a symbiotic relationship between all the different areas of space and focuses are stronger in one than another, like I did mention earlier about it being paper/rock/scissors which I also noticed you tended to conveniently forget in using my "incursions/lvl 4 missions..." quote as being some sort of anti null industry.
Make a good point, and I'll agree with it. But until then...
Fair enough Malcanis, fly safe.
Just keep in mind I will reply to your posts as I would anyone else's if they seem to be jaded towards one side more than the other one any sort of "versus" or "balance" comes into play.
o/ "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3031
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 17:12:00 -
[366] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:RAGE QU1T wrote:Confirming, no one likes EMO raging FC's spamming alliance crying for more Logi's, furthermore people are tired of CTA online So don't join an alliance that demands you to play on their terms? Confirming that FC "need more logi" tears are the best. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Andrea Roche
State War Academy Caldari State
202
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 17:13:00 -
[367] - Quote
In eve, high sec nerfs you! All the high end ores are not present in high sec. You can already make much more isk in null faster with very little effort.
If there is something that needs nerfing, are defenetly those high ends moons in null. There is way too much PASSIVE isk made from moons in null |
Kuranei
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 10:22:00 -
[368] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:RAGE QU1T wrote:Peter Raptor wrote:Some Rando wrote:Peter Raptor wrote:If CCP nerfs hisec, what have the hisec dwellers/industrialists got left A lot of other space to do business in. High-sec should be left to new players and the little coddled children who can't handle conflict in a PvP game. As I said elsewhere , many people play EVE to relax, manufacture stuff, hang out with friends, not to have an FC yelling at them for allegedly making the team lose a PVP match. If forced to PVP, many would rather leave. Confirming, no one likes EMO raging FC's spamming alliance crying for more Logi's, furthermore people are tired of CTA online So don't join an alliance that demands you to play on their terms?
Its not thier terms, When ever your are in a war in null sec this will happen on a repeated basis. Even more so when you are getting pummled.
its only a few chilled FCs out there that can take the pressure of losing space ships in a game and not emo rage. and Archie happen to be one who could. not to be said for -A- FC. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
1547
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 10:46:00 -
[369] - Quote
Andrea Roche wrote:In eve, high sec nerfs you! All the high end ores are not present in high sec. You can already make much more isk in null faster with very little effort.
If there is something that needs nerfing, are defenetly those high ends moons in null. There is way too much PASSIVE isk made from moons in null I would like to state that the higher income available in Null is in large parts of SOV Null and it is mostly for people who like shooting things.
For people making things it is, well, crap.
It is crap all over space at -0.0, you increase your risk to make more isk but at the end of the day you end up spending more time building and mining with your hi-sec "alts" than on your supposed main characters.
I am one of the people that would like smaller alliances to have an easier time in Null and for Industry people to have a real reason to go there.
Lets face it I can make pretty good isk running Radar sites in a WH or plexes in Null but its all shooting red crosses which from my point of view is crap and with industry you shoot at the rocks and soon enough someone will shoot you, so not only do you not make enough money but you can lose money because the base amount is crappy, especially if you add in the massive extra risk you actually take exporting goods.
NPC facilities are so good why does anyone really want their own POS besides when you have no choice or you are impatient to research a BPO other than that an NPC facility is the way to go atm.
NPC facilities are set up like EVE has been in newbie friendly mode for 10 years and everyone is a newbie.
Oh and yes Super AFK Moon mining needs to die in a bloody accident. (People can hardly complain about AFK mining when there are POSs AFK mining) Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
1547
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 10:57:00 -
[370] - Quote
Wikipedia wrote: Open world From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Redirected from Sandbox (video games))
An open world is a type of video game level design where a player can roam freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives.[1]
The term "free roam" is also used, as is "sandbox" and "free-roaming".[2][3] "Open world" and "free-roaming" suggest the absence of artificial barriers,[4] in contrast to the invisible walls and loading screens that are common in linear level designs. The term "sandbox" is often used incorrectly. Open world doesn't necessarily mean sandbox. In a true "sandbox," the player has tools to modify the world themselves and create how they play.
Generally open world games still enforce some restrictions in the game environment, either due to absolute technical limitations or in-game limitations (such as locked areas) imposed by a game's linearity.
Just thought I would put this here as people keep stuffing up what a sandbox is. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
6777
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 11:09:00 -
[371] - Quote
A player built outpost is a "sandbox" feature. (It would be more so if it were destructible) MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
1547
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 11:22:00 -
[372] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:A player built outpost is a "sandbox" feature. (It would be more so if it were destructible) The above was not in reference to one of your statements.
But one about the fact that any form of incentive to go somewhere other than Hi-sec is not a sandbox feature.
Murk Paradox wrote: Why? If it's a sandbox and you're given choices, then why should you be incentivized to leave? If anyone/thing wants you away and gone, why have that there in the first place? There's already rules about terrorizing newbie pilots, but nothing saying it's wrong to do incursions/lvl 4 missions, manufacture or have trade hubs in highsec.
So now you are indeed taking the sandbox element out of the picture thinking that high/low/null is a set value of "level" of gameplay.
Guess what, it isn't.
Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
455
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 11:32:00 -
[373] - Quote
POS's should definitely have refining skills at 100%, current 75% is simply another reason why people don't risk living in null/lo. Evelopedia;-á
The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion -áGÇá-á-á |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
6779
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 12:38:00 -
[374] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Malcanis wrote:A player built outpost is a "sandbox" feature. (It would be more so if it were destructible) The above was not in reference to one of your statements.
Yeah I know I was just making an observation.
Frying Doom wrote: But one about the fact that any form of incentive to go somewhere other than Hi-sec is not a sandbox feature.
Removing huge disincentives to do so might be though
MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6167
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 12:43:00 -
[375] - Quote
I do love how hisec players cite the "sandbox" as a compelling reason why hisec should have the ridiculously high rewards and convenience it offers, while demanding that other aspects of the "sandbox" be curtailed if not removed (i.e. suicide ganking, canflipping, etc.) ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. ~~~~i am god~~~~ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
6779
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 12:54:00 -
[376] - Quote
Andski wrote:I do love how hisec players cite the "sandbox" as a compelling reason why hisec should have the ridiculously high rewards and convenience it offers, while demanding that other aspects of the "sandbox" be curtailed if not removed (i.e. suicide ganking, canflipping, etc.)
Sandbox, n: "Whatever I say it is" MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Zaraz Zaraz
Imperial Planetology Academy
70
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 13:08:00 -
[377] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Malcanis wrote:A player built outpost is a "sandbox" feature. (It would be more so if it were destructible) The above was not in reference to one of your statements. Yeah I know I was just making an observation. Frying Doom wrote: But one about the fact that any form of incentive to go somewhere other than Hi-sec is not a sandbox feature.
Removing huge disincentives to do so might be though
"You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."
The point I've been trying to make, with the sadist/masochist remarks, is that there just aren't enough masochists around to make things entertaining enough for the sadists. Its an ecological problem.
People playing this game, who aren't masochists, don't want to see hours of game effort destroyed in what they perceive (rightly or wrongly) as unfair, unbalanced and unprovoked pvp. They just don't see the cost/benefit calculation being in low/nullsecs favor. They'll see the ease with which they can lose ingame toys (what some call 'space ships') being much MUCH greater than the ease of acquiring or replacing those losses. They put in X hours playing the game to get some toys, then see the toys destroyed by other players in the blink of an eye and think "hey now I have to play this game for another X hours so that what? They can get blowed up again? And those X hours weren't even fun? And getting my toys blowed up wasn't fun either? Pfft no I'm outta here."
So they stay away from low/nullsec because they aren't masochists and don't feel that they are playing this game in order to provide entertainment for 'tear seekers'.
Putting more vinegar into hisec won't help. They'll just leave the game and go somewhere else. It'd make it less fun for the non-masochists. If you bring the same level of risk to them in hisec the equation just goes against gameplay entirely.
Putting more honey into low/null WILL help (or possibly making the existing honey more accessible to the players who aren't totally entrenched in those areas).
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6167
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 13:11:00 -
[378] - Quote
Zaraz Zaraz wrote:"You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."
The point I've been trying to make, with the sadist/masochist remarks, is that there just aren't enough masochists around to make things entertaining enough for the sadists. Its an ecological problem.
People playing this game, who aren't masochists, don't want to see hours of game effort destroyed in what they perceive (rightly or wrongly) as unfair, unbalanced and unprovoked pvp. They just don't see the cost/benefit calculation being in low/nullsecs favor. They'll see the ease with which they can lose ingame toys (what some call 'space ships') being much MUCH greater than the ease of acquiring or replacing those losses. They put in X hours playing the game to get some toys, then see the toys destroyed by other players in the blink of an eye and think "hey now I have to play this game for another X hours so that what? They can get blowed up again? And those X hours weren't even fun? And getting my toys blowed up wasn't fun either? Pfft no I'm outta here."
So they stay away from low/nullsec because they aren't masochists and don't feel that they are playing this game in order to provide entertainment for 'tear seekers'.
Putting more vinegar into hisec won't help. They'll just leave the game and go somewhere else. It'd make it less fun for the non-masochists. If you bring the same level of risk to them in hisec the equation just goes against gameplay entirely.
Putting more honey into low/null WILL help (or possibly making the existing honey more accessible to the players who aren't totally entrenched in those areas).
"EVE Online, the cold, harsh universe where Everybody Wins!" ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. ~~~~i am god~~~~ |
Zaraz Zaraz
Imperial Planetology Academy
70
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 13:13:00 -
[379] - Quote
Andski wrote: "EVE Online, the cold, harsh universe where Everybody Wins!"
Thing is there just arent enough people of appropriate personality types to make it work.
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6167
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 13:17:00 -
[380] - Quote
Zaraz Zaraz wrote:Andski wrote: "EVE Online, the cold, harsh universe where Everybody Wins!"
Thing is there just arent enough people of appropriate personality types to make it work.
No, this just isn't an "everybody wins" game. The problem is that there is just too much "honey" in highsec in comparison to lowsec and nullsec, not that there is not enough "honey" in the latter. Lowsec has what are supposed to be the best missions and the most rewarding incursions, yet nobody runs them there because hisec simply offers nearly the same rewards with far, far more convenience. ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. ~~~~i am god~~~~ |
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Zaraz Zaraz
Imperial Planetology Academy
70
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 13:19:00 -
[381] - Quote
Andski wrote:Zaraz Zaraz wrote:Andski wrote: "EVE Online, the cold, harsh universe where Everybody Wins!"
Thing is there just arent enough people of appropriate personality types to make it work. No, this just isn't an "everybody wins" game. The problem is that there is just too much "honey" in highsec in comparison to lowsec and nullsec, not that there is not enough "honey" in the latter. Lowsec has what are supposed to be the best missions and the most rewarding incursions, yet nobody runs them there because hisec simply offers nearly the same rewards with far, far more convenience.
Profit/loss calculation. Include fun in the equation.
Lowsec/null doesnt have enough appeal to enough players. Its not that high is too good.
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6167
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 13:43:00 -
[382] - Quote
Zaraz Zaraz wrote:Profit/loss calculation. Include fun in the equation.
Lowsec/null doesnt have enough appeal to enough players. Its not that high is too good.
You can insist all you want that the problem isn't with hisec. It is. ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. ~~~~i am god~~~~ |
Zaraz Zaraz
Imperial Planetology Academy
70
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 13:44:00 -
[383] - Quote
Andski wrote:Zaraz Zaraz wrote:Profit/loss calculation. Include fun in the equation.
Lowsec/null doesnt have enough appeal to enough players. Its not that high is too good.
You can insist all you want that the problem isn't with hisec. It is.
The problem, for you, is that you don't have enough targets. Wonder why ppl aren't queuing up to be your target?
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6167
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 13:49:00 -
[384] - Quote
Zaraz Zaraz wrote:The problem, for you, is that you don't have enough targets. Wonder why ppl aren't queuing up to be your target?
Any targets that were once there have been relocated to hisec for running incursions, running missions, mining ice with only 2 seconds of interaction needed every 20 minutes or otherwise taking advantage of CCP's welfare programs for hisec. ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. ~~~~i am god~~~~ |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
1547
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 13:53:00 -
[385] - Quote
Zaraz Zaraz wrote:Andski wrote:Zaraz Zaraz wrote:Profit/loss calculation. Include fun in the equation.
Lowsec/null doesnt have enough appeal to enough players. Its not that high is too good.
You can insist all you want that the problem isn't with hisec. It is. The problem, for you, is that you don't have enough targets. Wonder why ppl aren't queuing up to be your target? Probably the same reason I went into a Wormhole but still have hi-sec alts.
Risk vs reward. The reward is not enough for the risk in Null and even Wormholes that are fun if you like to kill red Xs but it gets kind of boring if you like to mine, and then you look at the fact that at a POS you have a max 75% refine so you end up just saying why bother and what should be your main focus in the game (as was my intent) is actually the minority entertainment as I go to Hi-sec to mine for isk. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Zaraz Zaraz
Imperial Planetology Academy
70
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 13:54:00 -
[386] - Quote
Andski wrote:Zaraz Zaraz wrote:The problem, for you, is that you don't have enough targets. Wonder why ppl aren't queuing up to be your target?
Any targets that were once there have been relocated to hisec for running incursions, running missions, mining ice with only 2 seconds of interaction needed every 20 minutes or otherwise taking advantage of CCP's welfare programs for hisec.
Because no matter how boring it may be its more fun than being your toy
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Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
906
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 13:54:00 -
[387] - Quote
Andski wrote:Zaraz Zaraz wrote:The problem, for you, is that you don't have enough targets. Wonder why ppl aren't queuing up to be your target?
Any targets that were once there have been relocated to hisec for running incursions, running missions, mining ice with only 2 seconds of interaction needed every 20 minutes or otherwise taking advantage of CCP's welfare programs for hisec.
Drones need to be put back into the welfare system.
Perhaps President Obama can help. This is not a signature. |
DSpite Culhach
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
38
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 14:14:00 -
[388] - Quote
Zaraz Zaraz wrote:Andski wrote:Zaraz Zaraz wrote:Profit/loss calculation. Include fun in the equation.
Lowsec/null doesnt have enough appeal to enough players. Its not that high is too good.
You can insist all you want that the problem isn't with hisec. It is. The problem, for you, is that you don't have enough targets. Wonder why ppl aren't queuing up to be your target?
This is the whole problem.
"We don't have enough to shoot at, hence we must force players out of hisec, cause its too easy to stay there"
Hello? This is a GAME, right, so people will in fact see how a particular part of a game works, and for example decide "I just want to spend my free off work relaxing time in the market or making items" or "I just want to sub for 6 months and work up to a few Incursions".
So you want more PvP'ers but there dosn't seem to be enough of them? And you're blaming a game mechanic?
The game mechanic is what divides players into categories. If you have an mmo game that's has a 10K player base with a 50/50 pve/pvp population, and remove pve completely , do people seriously think the pve players will just go "oh well, now I have no choice but to pvp" and suddenly have 10K pvp players or do you think you'll just now have maybe 6000 pvp players and empty cities?
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6167
|
Posted - 2013.01.01 14:41:00 -
[389] - Quote
DSpite Culhach wrote:This is the whole problem.
"We don't have enough to shoot at, hence we must force players out of hisec, cause its too easy to stay there"
Hello? This is a GAME, right, so people will in fact see how a particular part of a game works, and for example decide "I just want to spend my free off work relaxing time in the market or making items" or "I just want to sub for 6 months and work up to a few Incursions".
So you want more PvP'ers but there dosn't seem to be enough of them? And you're blaming a game mechanic?
The game mechanic is what divides players into categories. If you have an mmo game that's has a 10K player base with a 50/50 pve/pvp population, and remove pve completely , do people seriously think the pve players will just go "oh well, now I have no choice but to pvp" and suddenly have 10K pvp players or do you think you'll just now have maybe 6000 pvp players and empty cities?
This isn't about forcing players out of hisec because short of CCP moving their characters and assets to nullsec entirely, that isn't happening. It's about balancing hisec to stop it from being the absolute best game in town. ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. ~~~~i am god~~~~ |
DSpite Culhach
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
38
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Posted - 2013.01.01 15:02:00 -
[390] - Quote
Andski wrote:DSpite Culhach wrote:This is the whole problem.
"We don't have enough to shoot at, hence we must force players out of hisec, cause its too easy to stay there"
Hello? This is a GAME, right, so people will in fact see how a particular part of a game works, and for example decide "I just want to spend my free off work relaxing time in the market or making items" or "I just want to sub for 6 months and work up to a few Incursions".
So you want more PvP'ers but there dosn't seem to be enough of them? And you're blaming a game mechanic?
The game mechanic is what divides players into categories. If you have an mmo game that's has a 10K player base with a 50/50 pve/pvp population, and remove pve completely , do people seriously think the pve players will just go "oh well, now I have no choice but to pvp" and suddenly have 10K pvp players or do you think you'll just now have maybe 6000 pvp players and empty cities?
This isn't about forcing players out of hisec because short of CCP moving their characters and assets to nullsec entirely, that isn't happening. It's about balancing hisec to stop it from being the absolute best game in town.
What? Balance what? This is not a game where you have one base and I have a base and you say that your base is smaller and has less windows from where to shoot from. Everyone has access to the same base and can come and go as they please, and when shooting happens, we all do it somewhere else anyway like lowsec, and if you can't enter that hisec base because of your security status then you already know how that happened.
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