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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Kery Nysell
Nysell Incorporated
26
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 20:03:00 -
[151] - Quote
Eternal Error wrote: First, if you can't make tens of billions in highsec (especially with that much sp/experience), you are terrible.
Second, it's not just about reward, it's about risk vs. reward.
Never said I was the best player there is, but "tens of billions" is still out of my league ... half a billion per month for me alone is more reasonnable ...
But since I'm "terrible", care to share your wisdom, O Great One ?.? |
Miri Amatonur
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
28
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 20:15:00 -
[152] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote: Yes, but in EVE we mainly have lots of small scale conflicts and a big war every now and then, but things are pretty stable.
So I'd argue we're already where you think you want us to go.
In the sense of war and fights yes we might always been there.
It's in the sense of counties. A county = a small alliance today in EVE. If you'll argue with renters of the same hegemonial power. They lag feuds medival counties had even within one kingdom.
Today we have a few large alliances and coalitions that claim most of the space. |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow C.L.O.N.E.
979
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 20:17:00 -
[153] - Quote
Miri Amatonur wrote:masternerdguy wrote: Yes, but in EVE we mainly have lots of small scale conflicts and a big war every now and then, but things are pretty stable.
So I'd argue we're already where you think you want us to go.
In the sense of war and fights yes we might always been there. It's in the sense of counties. A county = a small alliance today in EVE. If you'll argue with renters of the same hegemonial power. They lag feuds medival counties had even within one kingdom.
The United States of America, Russian Federation, People's Republic of China, those are also countries and are also quite large and influential. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2286
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 20:21:00 -
[154] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Miri Amatonur wrote:masternerdguy wrote: Yes, but in EVE we mainly have lots of small scale conflicts and a big war every now and then, but things are pretty stable.
So I'd argue we're already where you think you want us to go.
In the sense of war and fights yes we might always been there. It's in the sense of counties. A county = a small alliance today in EVE. If you'll argue with renters of the same hegemonial power. They lag feuds medival counties had even within one kingdom. The United States of America, Russian Federation, People's Republic of China, those are also countries and are also quite large and influential. Which of those has magical police? I think it's best to live there. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Miri Amatonur
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
28
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 20:25:00 -
[155] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote: The United States of America, Russian Federation, People's Republic of China, those are also countries and are also quite large and influential.
Now you switch to the present world while i was talking about a world system 800 years ago.
The current game mechanics allow the super corporations, alliances by count of members and mega coalitions by blue lists.
That mechanics are changed frequently by CCP. Personally i would prefer the smaller is better approach over the current system. |
Miri Amatonur
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
28
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 20:26:00 -
[156] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote: Which of those has magical police? I think it's best to live there.
I'd say China. But i doubt you want to live there.
|
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow C.L.O.N.E.
979
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 20:27:00 -
[157] - Quote
Miri Amatonur wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote: Which of those has magical police? I think it's best to live there.
I'd say China. But i doubt you want to live there.
I've met a lot of people from China they seem ok to me. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2286
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 20:30:00 -
[158] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Miri Amatonur wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote: Which of those has magical police? I think it's best to live there.
I'd say China. But i doubt you want to live there. I've met a lot of people from China they seem ok to me. They have police that can save you within 15 seconds? Interesting. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
1091
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 20:38:00 -
[159] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:They have police that can save you within 15 seconds? Interesting.
Who said anything about saving? They kill people that fast, and send the bill for the bullet to the family, which could be considered a killmail. "The nice thing about quotes is that they give us a nodding acquaintance with the originator which is often socially impressive." ~Kenneth Williams |
No More Heroes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1948
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 21:01:00 -
[160] - Quote
Kery Nysell wrote:As a highsec carebear, I *CANNOT* make tens of billions ... and yes, I've also been playing since 2004/2005 ...
So, from my point of view, nullsec = isk printing machine ... that very well deserves all the hindrances, it's SO EASY to make a fortune down there, compared to the grind and market pvp of high sec
I'm afraid you are mistaken, about a great many things. I tried the various income things in 0.0 like exploration, belt ratting, anomaly farming, got some plasma planets going and did alright. Made a few hundred million over a period of months.
So I bought a perfect station trader that is in Jita 4-4 and never undocks.
Now I make billions
Weekly
By just changing and creating some buys and sells each day, talk about printing isk . |
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destiny2
81
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 21:49:00 -
[161] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Malcanis wrote:destiny2 wrote:If their going to nerf anything nerf null get rid of the tech moons, make it so people actually have to work for their isk How much "work" did hi-sec players put in to get all those invulnerable stations which they can't be locked out of? You don't get to complain about tech moons in null until stations in hi-sec cost you 20 bill a pop. If only our 20bil a pop stations were totally invulnerable like their free ones which they get multiple of in some systems.
they are infact invul as they cant be destroyed, unless its found while being anchored and filled 2 hours before downtime. but look at it this way, theirs some alliances in this game that have no tech moons and they can still survive.
But since highsec cant allow capitals how many here would actually spend 3-5 hours shooting a highsec station with a maelstrom fleet, i know i wouldnt.
and also their is some null areas that have pre built stations already that players didnt have to spend isk for nor that can be destroyed or flipped. seen a few in tenal/venal.Delve,seen a couple in goons home land. |
Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
371
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 21:52:00 -
[162] - Quote
No More Heroes wrote:Kery Nysell wrote:As a highsec carebear, I *CANNOT* make tens of billions ... and yes, I've also been playing since 2004/2005 ...
So, from my point of view, nullsec = isk printing machine ... that very well deserves all the hindrances, it's SO EASY to make a fortune down there, compared to the grind and market pvp of high sec I'm afraid you are mistaken, about a great many things. I tried the various income things in 0.0 like exploration, belt ratting, anomaly farming, got some plasma planets going and did alright. Made a few hundred million over a period of months. So I bought a perfect station trader that is in Jita 4-4 and never undocks. Now I make billions Weekly By just changing and creating some buys and sells each day, talk about printing isk
Obviousy Thats because theres thousands of players in Jita practically all day long, you could'nt do that in Perimeter even though it's still hisec. Get 2000 people into a null sec hub, you'll make much more, trick is to make null sec more attractive for players than it is, without ruining hisec, Jita actually keeps the Eve economy quite stable, mess with the stability of the economy and you get a sick economy. Evelopedia;-á
The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion -áGÇá-á-á |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
1647
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 21:56:00 -
[163] - Quote
Peter Raptor wrote:Null is Broken because Hisec working as intended. FTFY...
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Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
371
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 21:59:00 -
[164] - Quote
Gogela wrote:Peter Raptor wrote:Null is Broken because Hisec working as intended. FTFY...
Wreck the hisec economy, and a null sec economic depression will follow, thats a given. Evelopedia;-á
The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion -áGÇá-á-á |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
1647
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 22:04:00 -
[165] - Quote
Peter Raptor wrote:Gogela wrote:Peter Raptor wrote:Null is Broken because Hisec working as intended. FTFY... Wreck the hisec economy, and a null sec economic depression will follow, thats a given. Sometimes I like to just make up silly arguments and attribute them to non-specific comments so it looks like we are actually having a conversation, which in turn implies my position has some merit to it.
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Kery Nysell
Nysell Incorporated
26
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 22:15:00 -
[166] - Quote
No More Heroes wrote:I'm afraid you are mistaken, about a great many things. I tried the various income things in 0.0 like exploration, belt ratting, anomaly farming, got some plasma planets going and did alright. Made a few hundred million over a period of months. So I bought a perfect station trader that is in Jita 4-4 and never undocks. Now I make billions Weekly By just changing and creating some buys and sells each day, talk about printing isk
So the trick is AFK trading in Jita ... niiiiiiiice ... and do you actually play the game, instead of number-crunching with a spreadsheet ?
I do missions, I mine, I build things, I try to sell them for a profit without gouging newbies, I'm starting to dabble in exploration, I *gasp* talk in Local and make friends, I have a couple of planets producing things I might need for a (future) research POS, in short, even in my limited high sec life, I'm very active ... and all that as a casual player with maybe a couple of hours per day of 'game time'.
But I don't enjoy direct player versus player combat, I find games like Unreal or Quake soooooo much better for that ... for me a MMORPG (Many Men Online Role Playing Girls, heh) is about co-operation and interaction, but those CAN (and should) be limited if I'm in a foul mood ... let's be honest here, no-one, even my closest friends, want to hear/read me ranting about my own personnal real life problems ...
Yes, I could try to join a 0.0 Alliance (I have too many fond memories with my own corp to disband it) and try the nullbear life, but from what I see/read, it's all about obeying orders and forming blobs ... and frankly, waiting hours for maybe finding 15 minutes of mashing F1 to kill other players is a waste of my limited playing time.
Thanks for the tip about the Jita trading tough, I might invest time in that one day. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
2582
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 22:49:00 -
[167] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Malcanis wrote:destiny2 wrote:If their going to nerf anything nerf null get rid of the tech moons, make it so people actually have to work for their isk How much "work" did hi-sec players put in to get all those invulnerable stations which they can't be locked out of? You don't get to complain about tech moons in null until stations in hi-sec cost you 20 bill a pop. If only our 20bil a pop stations were totally invulnerable like their free ones which they get multiple of in some systems. And when do those evil high sec players have the ability to decide who docks at all these glorious stations? Last I checked anyone, including null players can freely dock there and take advantage of all the services said stations provides.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
The CandyGirl
the unified Negative Ten.
22
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 23:07:00 -
[168] - Quote
Peter Raptor wrote:All these "Nerf hisec" threads are just ludicrous, and All these "Null is broken" threads are enlightening.
If CCP nerfs hisec, what have the hisec dwellers/industrialists got left, mining in losec?....totally useless.
Living in Null sec? Practically every thread talking about Null sec speaks about how pointless it is to live there.
It is Null sec that needs to be Buffed somehow, cos if you nerf the daylights outta High sec, people will have little choice but to
leave, and we'll get the same lousy player numbers as during the last unending Hulkaggeddon before the Mining Barge Buff.
I agree with you..... but then i dont.
High low and null all need to be rebalanced.
Some aspects of high need to be hit with the nerf bat repediatly( incursions, lvl4s, afk anything)
Low needs something that no other zone has that will make people want to brave the pirates
Null needs to be made less boring and sov fixed.
POSes need to be rebalanced so doing industry from them is better than at high sec stations.
I can go on but these are the main issues that i have noticed |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
1780
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 23:41:00 -
[169] - Quote
Peter Raptor wrote:Gogela wrote:Peter Raptor wrote:Null is Broken because Hisec working as intended. FTFY... Wreck the hisec economy, and a null sec economic depression will follow, thats a given. It's the other way around actually. The only reason why the wheel of Eve's economy is still turning is because people keep blowing each other up. Nullsec provides that on a massive scale. Go figure. How to : Playing Eve 100% Risk and Conflict FREE! |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
685
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 23:44:00 -
[170] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:Peter Raptor wrote:If CCP nerfs hisec, what have the hisec dwellers/industrialists got left A lot of other space to do business in. High-sec should be left to new players and the little coddled children who can't handle conflict in a PvP game.
Lived in Hi, Low, Null and currently WH resident - basically left Null because I had seen enough ASCII art.....
Interdict Hi-Sec - it's the only way to be sure... |
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Katherine Jasmone
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 23:50:00 -
[171] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:Peter Raptor wrote:If CCP nerfs hisec, what have the hisec dwellers/industrialists got left A lot of other space to do business in. High-sec should be left to new players and the little coddled children who can't handle conflict in a PvP game.
Pardon if this is [tl;dr]
A certain misnomer or definition in regards to what actually equals PvP in this game. Bear with me since I feel most nullbears tend to think of PvP as straight 1v1 or blob-fest or hi-sec chicken ganks. And most carebears think of PvP as something that is beyond their want or need of the game. The style of gameplay (hardcore vs social) aspects of the game differ greatly in taste, scope, frequency and escalation and are reflected similarly in how peoples opinions differ greatly.
The sandbox of PvP, or definition of it in this game goes far beyond that of merely ship vs ship, but rather the content is driven by the creativity and productivity of players on many levels and modes of play. PvP isn't merely outgunning or otherwise shooting stuff, it is as much scamming and corpthieving (GHSC any one?) as it is allocating resources and outproducing, outselling and playing the market versus other players.
My own opinion of the game is that ultimately PLEX have ruined the backend of isk-making (through industry, research, mining and exploration) that drives the economy/market in terms of ships and modules ultimately used for PvP. You can simply buy yourself wealth or PvP with real world money and thus debase the true nature of the game. Not all PvP players can afford a live-by-the-PLEX-die-by-the-PLEX lifestyle.
Baseline drivers of people wanting to change something (i.e. game mechanics) to their advantage are usually greed and avarice, their chosen line of play is not providing with enough wealth (or targets) and thus they usually suffer butthurt because they with envious eyes look at others achieving wealth through hard work and due diligence. So it is in the real world, the lazy want what the hard workers want. The lazy want pleasure and the hard working want dividend. t is the balance of things, the nature of EVE. [/tl:dr]
The short version:
To PvP nullbears I say: STFU, MTFU and look at the game from a perspective of balance. Your chosen profession is not what everyone else wants. People want different things from the sandbox and not necessarily the singular way of life that you lead.
To hi-sec carebears I say: You don't know how well you have it. Aspects of this game shelter you from the receiving end of some serious gangbang action.
Buff/nerf null-sec: Make industry and mining more viable in low and null. Make sovereignty harder to attain and keep in low and null. Remove alliances so that corps actually matter rather than the blob fest of alliances "owning" so much real estate in null.
Yes , I am an alt.-á |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2455
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 00:08:00 -
[172] - Quote
Katherine Jasmone wrote: STFU, MTFU and look at the game from a perspective of balance. Yeah, EVE Online is reallu unbalanced as it is.
This must continue in order to keep to a consistent trend. Never nerf highsec ~~ Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Sir Diablos
The Plebian Republic
5
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 00:22:00 -
[173] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:Peter Raptor wrote:If CCP nerfs hisec, what have the hisec dwellers/industrialists got left A lot of other space to do business in. High-sec should be left to new players and the little coddled children who can't handle conflict in a PvP game.
Indeed, because it can't be a sandbox unless it has no sand in it, hmmm? The devil is in the details... |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2455
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 00:34:00 -
[174] - Quote
Sir Diablos wrote:Some Rando wrote:Peter Raptor wrote:If CCP nerfs hisec, what have the hisec dwellers/industrialists got left A lot of other space to do business in. High-sec should be left to new players and the little coddled children who can't handle conflict in a PvP game. Indeed, because it can't be a sandbox unless it has no sand in it, hmmm? Yep, CONCORD will control our lives. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Katherine Jasmone
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 00:35:00 -
[175] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Katherine Jasmone wrote: STFU, MTFU and look at the game from a perspective of balance. Yeah, EVE Online is reallu unbalanced as it is. This must continue in order to keep to a consistent trend. Never nerf highsec ~~
Nope, highsec has its definite imbalances (just in the direction of catering to carebears, macroers and afkers.) Just make it a stepping stone - and in some regard a pseudo-haven while moving on to greater things.
Hi-sec should in someways provide any area for individuals and corps willing to stage into lo and null to gather enough resources: capitol, labor and other resources. Current null mechanics, industry, politics and PvP-blob mentality are barriers to entry into such areas for most if they never can muster the aforementioned resources to do so.
A thought for perhaps the F&I section - make asteroid belts "hidden" and force those who thrive on this to actually put in the effort to actually find their ore (like miners in the old days who had to collect soil and rock samples) instead of rinse and repeat the method of mining today. Similarly that those who would gank/pirate/ransom/grief would too have to work for their living. Not simply warp-to, ctrl and f1 (mash keys randomly).
But then again why should I agree with an individual in a corp that shelters/lives in an alliance that is in of itself an imbalance due to the blob mentality. When things (mechanics of null, lo or hi and some regards alliances) grow to the point of having their own inertia and this influence can be felt in a detrimental way then the game is in of itself imbalanced.
Yes , I am an alt.-á |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
215
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 01:19:00 -
[176] - Quote
In all seriousness, sitting in Jita and playing with orders is both ridiculously fun and profitable.
I feel bad for all you droolies who are like "durr numbers, i go shoot red crosses and spacerocks instead". Pathetic. |
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1869
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 01:30:00 -
[177] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:And when do those evil high sec players have the ability to decide who docks at all these glorious stations? Last I checked anyone, including null players can freely dock there and take advantage of all the services said stations provides. That's what we already do, obviously. You must think we're awfully stupid. The point is, nobody has to do anything for that capability, which is idiotic, seeing as to have any capability in null we have to spend hundreds of billions of isk on outposts, sov, ihubs, etc. and still not come anywhere close to what you get for free in highsec.
There's quite obviously a problem here, and you're willfully dismissing it. Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2455
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 01:36:00 -
[178] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:And when do those evil high sec players have the ability to decide who docks at all these glorious stations? Last I checked anyone, including null players can freely dock there and take advantage of all the services said stations provides. That's what we already do, obviously. You must think we're awfully stupid. The point is, nobody has to do anything for that capability, which is idiotic, seeing as to have any capability in null we have to spend hundreds of billions of isk on outposts, sov, ihubs, etc. and still not come anywhere close to what you get for free in highsec. There's quite obviously a problem here, and you're willfully dismissing it. Highsec is the way of the future, stop fighting it. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1869
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 01:40:00 -
[179] - Quote
Katherine Jasmone wrote:Nope, highsec has its definite imbalances (just in the direction of catering to carebears, macroers and afkers.) Just make it a stepping stone - and in some regard a pseudo-haven while moving on to greater things. Can't make things better than perfect without them being horribly broken. Highsec needs to be nerfed, there's no way around it and it's not even debatable. Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
DSpite Culhach
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2012.12.28 02:07:00 -
[180] - Quote
Sometimes in this discussions I feel like I'm reading the notes from a person in an insane asylum.
TL;DR
EVE is already hardwired with difficulty levels, they are Hard, Harsh, and Deadly. The new players already start on Hard difficulty, and most of the hardcore crowd want to force them to step up because "they don't have enough fresh meat to shoot at". How about you recruit new players for that, and let the more casual crowd explore the universe anyway they want.
---
* First off, Its just a GAME. Yea, that's really hard to comprehend for a lot of EVE players. One day, maybe all the devs will be caught in a meteorite acident, or a disgruntled ex employee will wipe the database and backups, or maybe they'll go bankrupt because of a screwup somewhere, and then, all your shiny spaceships and billion SP toons will be GONE.
* Since it states clearly everywhere that it's a "Sandbox" it means that some players will just take a look around, decide on what to settle on for X months and just do that. If They decide it's hisec, they will stay there regardless of how many nerfs you apply, if it's low/null they will join a corp and wonder around with them, uncaring of the extra difficulty because they want the challenge. The point of game for people is to find a confort zone, they will stay there untle THEY are ready.
* Every time a new patch comes out that changes mechanics, there's VERY LARGE corps that will VERY QUICKLY find a way to exploit them in some way, something that individual players are not able to do before CCP eventually goes "oh noes!" and "fixes" it. They make tons of money, and for the little players, the game just gets harder.
* It's pointless to say to carebears to "HTFU it's a PvP game" you don't get the right to start playing eve simply to quench your thirst for blood on easy prey, that why hisec protection exists in the first place, you want to kill at will, roam lowsec with the other piranhas, that's basically what it's design intention is, same way that null is where all the politics and blob battles happen as people try to push each other around. Different play styles for different people, that's what's cool about wormholes, yet another life choice available.
* If you can't find enough people to kill in low/null it's not because the carebears aren't been pushed there, most of them probably don't even want anything to do with it, and if you did force them, you'd just have less of them. If there is a lack of targets it's just because there's not enough of the PvP minded people around, these arguments are like trying to force someone that just want to be a logi pilot to do combat. Maybe he'd just rather not play, if his options of play style get taken away.
* You can nerf/boost high/low/null all you want. A new balance will just appear, and if it does not, and the game instead breaks down, it was never a proper sandbox to start with.
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