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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
564
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 14:20:00 -
[121] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:There is crap loads to mine in wormholes that you then have to compress and take to Hi-sec to use for manufacturing as well as the need for Hi-sec alts so you can mine the Hi-sec ores as moving huge volumes out of a WH is depressing at best.
is there really? ask a wormholler how much they mine. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5687
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 14:39:00 -
[122] - Quote
Grimpak wrote:Frying Doom wrote:There is crap loads to mine in wormholes that you then have to compress and take to Hi-sec to use for manufacturing as well as the need for Hi-sec alts so you can mine the Hi-sec ores as moving huge volumes out of a WH is depressing at best. is there really? ask a wormholler how much they mine.
Wormhole mining can be pretty profitable, I'm told, but it's all about the gas clouds rather than the ore these days.
MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Rick Banning
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 15:04:00 -
[123] - Quote
Perhaps I am slightly late to the party, but couldn't a lot be solved by simply giving nullsec something unique? For example, you give nullsec a small group of items that can only be found there, and allow them to have an effect on high sec space. It could potentially be interesting to have such resources be able to be controlled by alliances or small corporations to a certain degree. The effect such resources could have could range from affecting high sec corporations and their stations or their production queues to something entirely new.
The way it is right now makes it seem like high sec has better resources that null is jelly of, so null needs something to make high sec jelly.
Personally, I have only played in high sec, but that is just because I am starting out. All I am trying to say is that there are other alternatives to just simply nerfing or buffing something. |
janzzen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 15:30:00 -
[124] - Quote
Rick Banning wrote:Perhaps I am slightly late to the party, but couldn't a lot be solved by simply giving nullsec something unique? For example, you give nullsec a small group of items that can only be found there, and allow them to have an effect on high sec space. It could potentially be interesting to have such resources be able to be controlled by alliances or small corporations to a certain degree. The effect such resources could have could range from affecting high sec corporations and their stations or their production queues to something entirely new.
The way it is right now makes it seem like high sec has better resources that null is jelly of, so null needs something to make high sec jelly.
Personally, I have only played in high sec, but that is just because I am starting out. All I am trying to say is that there are other alternatives to just simply nerfing or buffing something.
You mean something like technetium i guess?
I rest my case |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
330
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 15:40:00 -
[125] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:March rabbit wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:Decrease war declaration costs, increase NPC corp tax and and make it apply to LP as well as bounties then limit highsec POSes to medium and small towers and I think you'd go a long way to making highsec much more reasonable space. it's all good and refreshing. However would anyone describe to me why the hell CONCORD pays for killing rats in 0.0? Who the hell would even care about them infesting spaces which belongs to noone? Remove CONCORD payouts from killing NPC in 0.0 and it will be more reasonable space It would be no skin off my nose. But unlike you my intention in posting was to suggest things that would make highsec less terrible not to make stupid rhetorical arguments to try and further the advantage that bad game design gives me personally. 1. you gave to high-sec status "terrible". Your job to prove it first. And only if you can succeed at it then we will speak about fixes.
2. I asked really interesting question. Outside of ISK source for 0.0 bears i don't see any reasons for these payouts.
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March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
330
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 15:42:00 -
[126] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:No, you just proved my point with an excellent example. That risk exists & should be compensated for. ok.
- Any numbers please? - Any reasons why it should be CCP's job to compensate risks PROVIDED BY PLAYERS? |
Miri Amatonur
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 16:16:00 -
[127] - Quote
Thomas Gore wrote: People who don't want to PvP will rather leave the game than be forced to PvP.
Yes, there once was a browser game called Neveron. It had a similar learning curve as EVE, industry, PvP and so on. One day the Devs thought that there should be more fights.
At first they introduced NPC attacks in large volume. This drove away the casual players.
At second they introduced forced wars. That drove away the industrialists and the last casual players.
TLDR: Force all to pvp and you can kiss EVE good bye. |
Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
370
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 16:20:00 -
[128] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Some Rando wrote:Peter Raptor wrote:If CCP nerfs hisec, what have the hisec dwellers/industrialists got left A lot of other space to do business in. High-sec should be left to new players and the little coddled children who can't handle conflict in a PvP game. You reak of e-machismo and e-bravery. You must be, like, a dragon slayer in real life. Down with the e-cowards! Am I doing it right? Not bad, but not great. You should have also put in something about how you started playing in 2004 and, ideally, a complaint about the parlous state of solo PvP and a self-serving mock complaint about how so few people these days prefer not to fight in "blobs". Solo PvP is alive and well, I have no idea what you're on about. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5691
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 16:32:00 -
[129] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Malcanis wrote:No, you just proved my point with an excellent example. That risk exists & should be compensated for. ok. - Any numbers please? - Any reasons why it should be CCP's job to compensate risks PROVIDED BY PLAYERS?
I suppose that someone who knew about such things could query the database about how many stations have changed hands, butare you seriously disputing your own example?
MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
64
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 16:47:00 -
[130] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:Peter Raptor wrote:As I said elsewhere , many people play EVE to relax, manufacture stuff, hang out with friends, not to have an FC yelling at them for allegedly making the team lose a PVP match. If forced to PVP, many would rather leave. That's fine, live in high-sec if you think the rest of space is like that. The problem is that high-sec is just too good compared to the rest of.K-space. It needs to be nerfed to bring it in line. After that, a buff to null industry and maybe some slight improvements in null and low individual income would help balance the game, IMO.
High sec is not too good, high sec was much better a couple years ago and this didn't changed the fact many players took over null and did stuff over there. Problem is with time, several nerfs to high sec hurt also null sec by extent at the point it's now better to run poor isk reward missions than sites in null, you can thank all the mighty nerfs to anoms for a start.
You can nerf high sec as much as you want, this will not change a dime about null sec but make it so high sec is as uninteresting as null has become.
Many smart monkeys come up with comments about nef high sec yada ya, none, and I clearly say it: NONE of them comes with decent arguments what's going wrong with high sec and specially what's so wrong with null sec that makes high sec a better place to be despite all the nerfs across the time and many many players loss -alt accounts never loging in are not an argument, real players leaving the game is and CCP will never ever make public these numbers, so forget it.
Buff null sec to what it should be, make it interesting being there, rewarding enough to accept the risks involved, make it so more casual players have their place over there and want to fight for at their log in. But to do this, there's only one and a single manner to do it, it's to start putting to pieces "economic arguments" unable to adapt to the size of the problem or to the state where it is. Or simply make all the game pvp everywhere, get rid of concord and finish the game once and for all so a couple nerds with their dozen alts can have fun and everyone else just go somewhere else give their money for something worth of some fun. |
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Sean Parisi
Project Cerberus Caldari State Capturing
72
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 16:57:00 -
[131] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:Peter Raptor wrote:As I said elsewhere , many people play EVE to relax, manufacture stuff, hang out with friends, not to have an FC yelling at them for allegedly making the team lose a PVP match. If forced to PVP, many would rather leave. That's fine, live in high-sec if you think the rest of space is like that. The problem is that high-sec is just too good compared to the rest of.K-space. It needs to be nerfed to bring it in line. After that, a buff to null industry and maybe some slight improvements in null and low individual income would help balance the game, IMO.
Nerf Isn't needed for Highsec, Null Sec needs a complete change from the ground up to make it more worthwhile for industry and smaller organizations. |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
332
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 17:05:00 -
[132] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:March rabbit wrote:Malcanis wrote:No, you just proved my point with an excellent example. That risk exists & should be compensated for. ok. - Any numbers please? - Any reasons why it should be CCP's job to compensate risks PROVIDED BY PLAYERS? I suppose that someone who knew about such things could query the database about how many stations have changed hands, butare you seriously disputing your own example? i have no access to databases but i can assist a little.
Ok. Number of stations changed hands is 5 (any number is good for theoretical discussions). So your suggested value for increasing rewards in 0.0 is ...?
And second question is still here. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2223
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 17:14:00 -
[133] - Quote
janzzen wrote:Rick Banning wrote:Perhaps I am slightly late to the party, but couldn't a lot be solved by simply giving nullsec something unique? For example, you give nullsec a small group of items that can only be found there, and allow them to have an effect on high sec space. It could potentially be interesting to have such resources be able to be controlled by alliances or small corporations to a certain degree. The effect such resources could have could range from affecting high sec corporations and their stations or their production queues to something entirely new.
The way it is right now makes it seem like high sec has better resources that null is jelly of, so null needs something to make high sec jelly.
Personally, I have only played in high sec, but that is just because I am starting out. All I am trying to say is that there are other alternatives to just simply nerfing or buffing something. You mean something like technetium i guess? I rest my case Tech moons are in lowsec as well. Also the vast majority of nullsec lacks tech moons. |
Sean Parisi
Project Cerberus Caldari State Capturing
72
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 17:57:00 -
[134] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:janzzen wrote:Rick Banning wrote:Perhaps I am slightly late to the party, but couldn't a lot be solved by simply giving nullsec something unique? For example, you give nullsec a small group of items that can only be found there, and allow them to have an effect on high sec space. It could potentially be interesting to have such resources be able to be controlled by alliances or small corporations to a certain degree. The effect such resources could have could range from affecting high sec corporations and their stations or their production queues to something entirely new.
The way it is right now makes it seem like high sec has better resources that null is jelly of, so null needs something to make high sec jelly.
Personally, I have only played in high sec, but that is just because I am starting out. All I am trying to say is that there are other alternatives to just simply nerfing or buffing something. You mean something like technetium i guess? I rest my case Tech moons are in lowsec as well. Also the vast majority of nullsec lacks tech moons.
If they made it more hands on as opposed to determined solely by Null Sec power holders (CEO's, Directors, etc). Then yes the Unique resources will stimulate the economy, make them required in high volume and provide more infrastructure needed for domestic industry. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2223
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 18:03:00 -
[135] - Quote
Sean Parisi wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:janzzen wrote:Rick Banning wrote:Perhaps I am slightly late to the party, but couldn't a lot be solved by simply giving nullsec something unique? For example, you give nullsec a small group of items that can only be found there, and allow them to have an effect on high sec space. It could potentially be interesting to have such resources be able to be controlled by alliances or small corporations to a certain degree. The effect such resources could have could range from affecting high sec corporations and their stations or their production queues to something entirely new.
The way it is right now makes it seem like high sec has better resources that null is jelly of, so null needs something to make high sec jelly.
Personally, I have only played in high sec, but that is just because I am starting out. All I am trying to say is that there are other alternatives to just simply nerfing or buffing something. You mean something like technetium i guess? I rest my case Tech moons are in lowsec as well. Also the vast majority of nullsec lacks tech moons. If they made it more hands on as opposed to determined solely by Null Sec power holders (CEO's, Directors, etc). Then yes the Unique resources will stimulate the economy, make them required in high volume and provide more infrastructure needed for domestic industry. the solution to technetium, the unique nullsec resource that is also located in lowsec, is to tighten the bottleneck by requring it in 'higher volume' to build things |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5700
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 18:03:00 -
[136] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Malcanis wrote:March rabbit wrote:Malcanis wrote:No, you just proved my point with an excellent example. That risk exists & should be compensated for. ok. - Any numbers please? - Any reasons why it should be CCP's job to compensate risks PROVIDED BY PLAYERS? I suppose that someone who knew about such things could query the database about how many stations have changed hands, butare you seriously disputing your own example? i guess you missed the point of my question. I asked about your numbers for compensation for risks of bold part. Not for number of outposts people lose/capture every day.
You tell me. You built that station, and then you lost it. How much better would player built stations have to be than they are now for you to take a similar risk? MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
358
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 18:37:00 -
[137] - Quote
Nullsec's unique industry resource is supposed to be T2 production. Not necessarily the items used to manufacture it (moon goo), the end result should be ships and mods.
How much of this stuff do you see manufactured in nullsec and imported to empire? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5724
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 18:43:00 -
[138] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:Nullsec's unique industry resource is supposed to be T2 production. Not necessarily the items used to manufacture it (moon goo), the end result should be ships and mods.
How much of this stuff do you see manufactured in nullsec and imported to empire?
Or even manufactured in nullsec and used there. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2257
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 18:47:00 -
[139] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:March rabbit wrote:Malcanis wrote:March rabbit wrote:Malcanis wrote:No, you just proved my point with an excellent example. That risk exists & should be compensated for. ok. - Any numbers please? - Any reasons why it should be CCP's job to compensate risks PROVIDED BY PLAYERS? I suppose that someone who knew about such things could query the database about how many stations have changed hands, butare you seriously disputing your own example? i guess you missed the point of my question. I asked about your numbers for compensation for risks of bold part. Not for number of outposts people lose/capture every day. You tell me. You built that station, and then you lost it. How much better would player built stations have to be than they are now for you to take a similar risk? Why can't CONCORD protect me~~~
Oh right, we rely on our friends rather than NPCs. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Sean Parisi
Project Cerberus Caldari State Capturing
74
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 18:49:00 -
[140] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Sean Parisi wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:janzzen wrote:Rick Banning wrote:Perhaps I am slightly late to the party, but couldn't a lot be solved by simply giving nullsec something unique? For example, you give nullsec a small group of items that can only be found there, and allow them to have an effect on high sec space. It could potentially be interesting to have such resources be able to be controlled by alliances or small corporations to a certain degree. The effect such resources could have could range from affecting high sec corporations and their stations or their production queues to something entirely new.
The way it is right now makes it seem like high sec has better resources that null is jelly of, so null needs something to make high sec jelly.
Personally, I have only played in high sec, but that is just because I am starting out. All I am trying to say is that there are other alternatives to just simply nerfing or buffing something. You mean something like technetium i guess? I rest my case Tech moons are in lowsec as well. Also the vast majority of nullsec lacks tech moons. If they made it more hands on as opposed to determined solely by Null Sec power holders (CEO's, Directors, etc). Then yes the Unique resources will stimulate the economy, make them required in high volume and provide more infrastructure needed for domestic industry. the solution to technetium, the unique nullsec resource that is also located in lowsec, is to tighten the bottleneck by requring it in 'higher volume' to build things
You are reading what I said properly. I'm not even saying Technetium specifically, essentially you have resources available in both Low Sec and Null Sec that are needed for something in production (Tech 2, Tech3, Whatever) that require high volumes.
But the key is having it so it requires players to work together in order to harvest or obtain properly. As opposed to having one or two moon barons running one mine. Instead you have something like ring mining which encourages more players to occupy the space and use it in order to obtain this unique resource. You don't make it limited solely to specific systems either.
For example in order to create Tech 3 Items, we need players to work together within wormholes running sites. This encourages people to actually live and occupy their system. To bring more people on board in order to increase how much they can pull in.
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Kery Nysell
Nysell Incorporated
25
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 19:13:00 -
[141] - Quote
I find it interesting to see null-bears complaining about the tens of billions they need to pay for their sov costs and all ...
Guess what ?
As a highsec carebear, I *CANNOT* make tens of billions ... and yes, I've also been playing since 2004/2005 ...
So, from my point of view, nullsec = isk printing machine ... that very well deserves all the hindrances, it's SO EASY to make a fortune down there, compared to the grind and market pvp of high sec.
Flame away, I've got my asbestos suit. |
Miri Amatonur
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
25
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 19:33:00 -
[142] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:(...) Oh right, we rely on our friends rather than NPCs.
Where we would come back to smaller is better as a possible future for 0.0. The mega alliances and super coalitions of today can't be the right way.
How much more interesting could 0.0 be if it would resamble the small scale counties of medival Europe. Lots of PvP. Fast changing politics. Sounds interesting.
But the current game mechanics would need an adjustment to support this. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2263
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 19:36:00 -
[143] - Quote
Kery Nysell wrote:I find it interesting to see null-bears complaining about the tens of billions they need to pay for their sov costs and all ...
Guess what ?
As a highsec carebear, I *CANNOT* make tens of billions ... and yes, I've also been playing since 2004/2005 ...
So, from my point of view, nullsec = isk printing machine ... that very well deserves all the hindrances, it's SO EASY to make a fortune down there, compared to the grind and market pvp of high sec.
Flame away, I've got my asbestos suit. Yeah we kinda have to work together to make those. No, you can't do this sort of thing solo.
Don't worry though, highsec is nice and easy and broken, you can rely on CONCORD and the like, just be happy ^___^ Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow C.L.O.N.E.
957
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 19:37:00 -
[144] - Quote
Miri Amatonur wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:(...) Oh right, we rely on our friends rather than NPCs. Where we would come back to smaller is better as a possible future for 0.0. The mega alliances and super coalitions of today can't be the right way. How much more interesting could 0.0 be if it would resamble the small scale counties of medival Europe. Lots of PvP. Fast changing politics. Sounds interesting. But the current game mechanics would need an adjustment to support this.
Medieval Europe was actually relatively stable. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2263
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 19:40:00 -
[145] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Miri Amatonur wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:(...) Oh right, we rely on our friends rather than NPCs. Where we would come back to smaller is better as a possible future for 0.0. The mega alliances and super coalitions of today can't be the right way. How much more interesting could 0.0 be if it would resamble the small scale counties of medival Europe. Lots of PvP. Fast changing politics. Sounds interesting. But the current game mechanics would need an adjustment to support this. Medieval Europe was actually relatively stable. Then EVE will be different, and unstable ! Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Eternal Error
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
203
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 19:40:00 -
[146] - Quote
Kery Nysell wrote:I find it interesting to see null-bears complaining about the tens of billions they need to pay for their sov costs and all ...
Guess what ?
As a highsec carebear, I *CANNOT* make tens of billions ... and yes, I've also been playing since 2004/2005 ...
So, from my point of view, nullsec = isk printing machine ... that very well deserves all the hindrances, it's SO EASY to make a fortune down there, compared to the grind and market pvp of high sec.
Flame away, I've got my asbestos suit. First, if you can't make tens of billions in highsec (especially with that much sp/experience), you are terrible.
Second, it's not just about reward, it's about risk vs. reward. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2263
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 19:43:00 -
[147] - Quote
Eternal Error wrote:Kery Nysell wrote:I find it interesting to see null-bears complaining about the tens of billions they need to pay for their sov costs and all ...
Guess what ?
As a highsec carebear, I *CANNOT* make tens of billions ... and yes, I've also been playing since 2004/2005 ...
So, from my point of view, nullsec = isk printing machine ... that very well deserves all the hindrances, it's SO EASY to make a fortune down there, compared to the grind and market pvp of high sec.
Flame away, I've got my asbestos suit. First, if you can't make tens of billions in highsec (especially with that much sp/experience), you are terrible. Second, it's not just about reward, it's about risk vs. reward. Lies, with intel channels, blue lists and local nullsec has no risk, certainly not if your neighbor is a en evil blobbing supercapital blobbing evil Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Miri Amatonur
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
25
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 19:43:00 -
[148] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote: Medieval Europe was actually relatively stable.
But had a ton of conflicts going on. Most small scale (count vs count) and some major stuff like Hundred Years' War, crusades and so on. |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow C.L.O.N.E.
969
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 19:46:00 -
[149] - Quote
Miri Amatonur wrote:masternerdguy wrote: Medieval Europe was actually relatively stable.
But had a ton of conflicts going on. Most small scale (count vs count) and some major stuff like Hundred Years' War, crusades and so on.
Yes, but in EVE we mainly have lots of small scale conflicts and a big war every now and then, but things are pretty stable.
So I'd argue we're already where you think you want us to go. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2279
|
Posted - 2012.12.27 19:48:00 -
[150] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Miri Amatonur wrote:masternerdguy wrote: Medieval Europe was actually relatively stable.
But had a ton of conflicts going on. Most small scale (count vs count) and some major stuff like Hundred Years' War, crusades and so on. Yes, but in EVE we mainly have lots of small scale conflicts and a big war every now and then, but things are pretty stable. So I'd argue we're already where you think you want us to go. We also burn down whole regions, I mean you don't see the south of europe all burning and being blued that frequently, I hope. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
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