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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
6852
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 18:59:00 -
[481] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote: In short, null isn't meant for industry. Highsec is.
Says who? A dev? Hilmar? The book of Revelations? Link it, please.
If nullsec isn't "meant" for industry, then why are we able to build factory stations, mine ore and so on?
Of course nullsec is "meant" for industry. It just isn't good enough at it and a rebalance is required. Again and again you come back to the same old discredited "Hi-sec is far better for industry therefore hi-sec should be far better for industry" line. This is, what? The 4th time you tried this? The 5th?
If CCP make 0.0 ten times better for industry than hisec tomorrow downtime, will you be telling people "Oh... well hi-sec isn't meant for industry."? MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2481
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 19:00:00 -
[482] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote: Well, "should" is a matter of perspective. What aspect of null "should" be more desirable to move into it than highsec? The industry? Please.
All of it from a potential profit perspective, offset by risk of loss and opportunity cost from maintaining and defending the space. |

Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
205
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 19:14:00 -
[483] - Quote
So in short, you guys should clamor for seperate servers. A highsec server, a lowsec server and a nullsec server.
Because you guys are adopting a "grass is greaner on the other side of the fence" mentality as to what you "should" have, as a player of a game you log in to. Instead of playing by the rules, you're finding ways to find issue with them.
You don't want to ferry stuff from highsec, which is the best area for industry, because you think null should have good enough industry to not warrant it, therefore removing highsec need from nullsec desires. Ok fair enough.
Take away the synergy. Cool. Now it's nullsec dependant. Why have highsec at all then? Let's see how far your idea takes us down the rabbit hole shall we? Is your end desire to have a Wow-Esque model of shards and servers and clusters? Because alientating one security of space is doing exactly that.
So ramp up industry in null! Hell yea! Now gives highsec better bounty rats! Why not? It's none of null's business now! They are their own entity! **** off nullbear, this is my area! Oh wait, highsec is governed by Concord! That's right, highsec can't stop you from entering (not without risk of course, sec standings and all that).
So now you have a player governed highsec because highsec has better industry and it makes nulls jelly. Boohoo.
And Malcanis, of course the devs have stated that null isn't meant to focus on industry. How can 10 years of developing be so wrong? If it was so broken, don't you think it would have had something done about it by now? Oh wait, you want the absolute of a dev typing it? Then go find it, not my problem to prove against your accusations. I'm not the one trying to reinvent the wheel here.
"I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |

Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
205
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 19:16:00 -
[484] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Murk Paradox wrote: Well, "should" is a matter of perspective. What aspect of null "should" be more desirable to move into it than highsec? The industry? Please.
All of it from a potential profit perspective, offset by risk of loss and opportunity cost from maintaining and defending the space.
But you can make more isk in null than highsec. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |

Lord Zim
2254
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 19:16:00 -
[485] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:So in short, you guys should clamor for seperate servers. A highsec server, a lowsec server and a nullsec server. No. Don't be daft. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
6852
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 19:17:00 -
[486] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:So in short, you guys should clamor for seperate servers. A highsec server, a lowsec server and a nullsec server.
Because you guys are adopting a "grass is greaner on the other side of the fence" mentality as to what you "should" have, as a player of a game you log in to. Instead of playing by the rules, you're finding ways to find issue with them.
You don't want to ferry stuff from highsec, which is the best area for industry, because you think null should have good enough industry to not warrant it, therefore removing highsec need from nullsec desires. Ok fair enough.
Take away the synergy. Cool. Now it's nullsec dependant. Why have highsec at all then? Let's see how far your idea takes us down the rabbit hole shall we? Is your end desire to have a Wow-Esque model of shards and servers and clusters? Because alientating one security of space is doing exactly that.
So ramp up industry in null! Hell yea! Now gives highsec better bounty rats! Why not? It's none of null's business now! They are their own entity! **** off nullbear, this is my area! Oh wait, highsec is governed by Concord! That's right, highsec can't stop you from entering (not without risk of course, sec standings and all that).
So now you have a player governed highsec because highsec has better industry and it makes nulls jelly. Boohoo.
And Malcanis, of course the devs have stated that null isn't meant to focus on industry. How can 10 years of developing be so wrong? If it was so broken, don't you think it would have had something done about it by now? Oh wait, you want the absolute of a dev typing it? Then go find it, not my problem to prove against your accusations. I'm not the one trying to reinvent the wheel here.
The squirming and special pleading here is delicious. Oh god no we might have to compete on a level playing field! PANIC! MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
6852
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 19:18:00 -
[487] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Murk Paradox wrote: Well, "should" is a matter of perspective. What aspect of null "should" be more desirable to move into it than highsec? The industry? Please.
All of it from a potential profit perspective, offset by risk of loss and opportunity cost from maintaining and defending the space. But you can make more isk in null than highsec.
Not even close. All the richest players operate in empire. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |

Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
205
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 19:21:00 -
[488] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Murk Paradox wrote: Well, "should" is a matter of perspective. What aspect of null "should" be more desirable to move into it than highsec? The industry? Please.
All of it from a potential profit perspective, offset by risk of loss and opportunity cost from maintaining and defending the space. But you can make more isk in null than highsec. Not even close. All the richest players operate in empire.
Traders do yea. But for a person to person basis, null is richer. Null just spends more. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |

Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
205
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 19:23:00 -
[489] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:So in short, you guys should clamor for seperate servers. A highsec server, a lowsec server and a nullsec server.
Because you guys are adopting a "grass is greaner on the other side of the fence" mentality as to what you "should" have, as a player of a game you log in to. Instead of playing by the rules, you're finding ways to find issue with them.
You don't want to ferry stuff from highsec, which is the best area for industry, because you think null should have good enough industry to not warrant it, therefore removing highsec need from nullsec desires. Ok fair enough.
Take away the synergy. Cool. Now it's nullsec dependant. Why have highsec at all then? Let's see how far your idea takes us down the rabbit hole shall we? Is your end desire to have a Wow-Esque model of shards and servers and clusters? Because alientating one security of space is doing exactly that.
So ramp up industry in null! Hell yea! Now gives highsec better bounty rats! Why not? It's none of null's business now! They are their own entity! **** off nullbear, this is my area! Oh wait, highsec is governed by Concord! That's right, highsec can't stop you from entering (not without risk of course, sec standings and all that).
So now you have a player governed highsec because highsec has better industry and it makes nulls jelly. Boohoo.
And Malcanis, of course the devs have stated that null isn't meant to focus on industry. How can 10 years of developing be so wrong? If it was so broken, don't you think it would have had something done about it by now? Oh wait, you want the absolute of a dev typing it? Then go find it, not my problem to prove against your accusations. I'm not the one trying to reinvent the wheel here.
The squirming and special pleading here is delicious. Oh god no we might have to compete on a level playing field! PANIC!
I don't understand why you quoted me with that response. I spend more time in null than highsec. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
6852
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 19:23:00 -
[490] - Quote
Hi-sec isn't meant to be the place where you can be the richest! MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |

Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
205
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 19:23:00 -
[491] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:So in short, you guys should clamor for seperate servers. A highsec server, a lowsec server and a nullsec server. No. Don't be daft.
I'm not the one being daft here. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3621
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 19:23:00 -
[492] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Murk Paradox wrote: Well, "should" is a matter of perspective. What aspect of null "should" be more desirable to move into it than highsec? The industry? Please.
All of it from a potential profit perspective, offset by risk of loss and opportunity cost from maintaining and defending the space. But you can make more isk in null than highsec. Not even close. All the richest players operate in empire.
Open VFK to the richest players? Yes I am being provocative but in the end just having industry buffed etc. etc. won't bring wealthy players to you if you kill them. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

Lord Zim
2254
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 19:27:00 -
[493] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:So in short, you guys should clamor for seperate servers. A highsec server, a lowsec server and a nullsec server. No. Don't be daft. I'm not the one being daft here. You're saying nullsec shouldn't be the place where everyone who aren't sissies should aspire to go and live. That's daft.
You're saying that because I'm advocating a separation of sorts between hisec and nullsec, that they must be moved to different shards. That's daft. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |

Lord Zim
2255
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 19:50:00 -
[494] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Open VFK to the richest players? What's in it for us? Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
6852
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 19:51:00 -
[495] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Open VFK to the richest players? What's in it for us?
The privilige of seeing people you promise not to shoot making money in your space! MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |

Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
205
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 19:58:00 -
[496] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Hi-sec isn't meant to be the place where you can be the richest!
Well, 2 sides to that.
1)stop spending so much in null. Income is higher in null, but so are spending habits. Refer to your local null alliance titan loss for details (or whatever high end item that got blown up).
2)Tell that to the player market traders that drive the economy. When all you do is buy or sell... it's bound to generate profits.
All in all, if so many ships were not blown up in null, because hey, null is supposed to be industrial as you say (=P), then null would be far richer. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |

Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
205
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 19:59:00 -
[497] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:So in short, you guys should clamor for seperate servers. A highsec server, a lowsec server and a nullsec server. No. Don't be daft. I'm not the one being daft here. You're saying nullsec shouldn't be the place where everyone who aren't sissies should aspire to go and live. That's daft. You're saying that because I'm advocating a separation of sorts between hisec and nullsec, that they must be moved to different shards. That's daft.
Tell that to the devs then. They are the ones who created the game you want to change. I'm just pointing it out. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |

Lord Zim
2255
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 20:02:00 -
[498] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Tell that to the devs then. They are the ones who created the game you want to change. What do you think I'm doing? Sucking myself off?
Murk Paradox wrote:I'm just pointing it out. By telling us we're wrong for daring to try to tell CCP their game is suboptimally designed. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |

Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
205
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 20:24:00 -
[499] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:Tell that to the devs then. They are the ones who created the game you want to change. What do you think I'm doing? Sucking myself off? Murk Paradox wrote:I'm just pointing it out. By telling us we're wrong for daring to try to tell CCP their game is suboptimally designed.
Apparently you are. And no, not at all.
You decide the order in which I'm answering your questions.
You are way too hostile it seems. Maybe you're the reason null is broken. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |

Lord Zim
2255
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 20:27:00 -
[500] - Quote
No, null would be less broken if I had any say in it. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |

Jamyl Khanid
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
27
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 20:33:00 -
[501] - Quote
I went to Null and it was full of Scrubs  |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
6852
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 20:34:00 -
[502] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Malcanis wrote:Hi-sec isn't meant to be the place where you can be the richest! Well, 2 sides to that. 1)stop spending so much in null.
unfortunately, the manufacture of everything we need to buy is heavily subsidised in hi-sec. These subsidies mean that local industry is unable to compete - especially in addition to the many other unfair restrictions placed on 0.0 industry which would prevent us from building enough of what we needed. Even if hi-sec were to be deleted tonight, there simply isn't the manufacturing capacity in nullsec. It's just not there. This is an important point that has been explained to you ten or twelve times already.
You can't fly ISK into a fight... MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
6852
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 20:36:00 -
[503] - Quote
Jamyl Khanid wrote:I went to Null and it was full of Scrubs 
Much like when you look into a mirror. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |

Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
205
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 20:38:00 -
[504] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:Malcanis wrote:Hi-sec isn't meant to be the place where you can be the richest! Well, 2 sides to that. 1)stop spending so much in null. unfortunately, the manufacture of everything we need to buy is heavily subsidised in hi-sec. These subsidies mean that local industry is unable to compete - especially in addition to the many other unfair restrictions placed on 0.0 industry which would prevent us from building enough of what we needed. Even if hi-sec were to be deleted tonight, there simply isn't the manufacturing capacity in nullsec. It's just not there. This is an important point that has been explained to you ten or twelve times already. You can't fly ISK into a fight...
All those 50bil and 67bil ships are arguing with you. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |

Jamyl Khanid
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
27
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 20:41:00 -
[505] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Jamyl Khanid wrote:I went to Null and it was full of Scrubs  Much like when you look into a mirror.
The mirror in my CQ told me I was fairest of them all. Mirror don't like bich
|

Lord Zim
2255
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 20:44:00 -
[506] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:All those 50bil and 67bil ships are arguing with you. You mean the only thing you can't build anywhere else except in sov space?
Gee, I wonder why those are built in sov space.  Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |

Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
205
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 20:45:00 -
[507] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:All those 50bil and 67bil ships are arguing with you. You mean the only thing you can't build anywhere else except in sov space? Gee, I wonder why those are built in sov space. 
Yea strange isnt it. Damn that highsec for having everything. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
6854
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 20:50:00 -
[508] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:All those 50bil and 67bil ships are arguing with you. You mean the only thing you can't build anywhere else except in sov space? Gee, I wonder why those are built in sov space.  Yea strange isnt it. Damn that highsec for having everything. Because miners can afford everything~!
You're a living example of the quote
"It's difficult to make a man understand something when his living depends on not understanding it"
Don't worry, you'll understand soon enough. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |

Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
205
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 20:55:00 -
[509] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:All those 50bil and 67bil ships are arguing with you. You mean the only thing you can't build anywhere else except in sov space? Gee, I wonder why those are built in sov space.  Yea strange isnt it. Damn that highsec for having everything. Because miners can afford everything~! You're a living example of the quote "It's difficult to make a man understand something when his living depends on not understanding it" Don't worry, you'll understand soon enough.
I don't think you understand.
Let me say it again in case you missed it the first time.
I don't live in highsec. Or is that your point? Now you are just being confusing. Do you even play eve or just forum warrior? Too much pvp, not enough industry in your posts. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
6856
|
Posted - 2013.01.05 20:56:00 -
[510] - Quote
I heard you say it. I just think you're lying, either by omission or simply by not telling the truth. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
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