No, it's not the best comparison. It's the worst. There are more lows to tank with than shields have mids after MWD and warp disruptor.

Do you even play Eve? Do you know what falloff means? What is this fit that allows your maelstrom to tank over 1.2k DPS using one ASB at a time? I also said I overloaded the ASB in my calculation of the tank, not just the armor tank. Using all weapons, tank, and EW modules for over five minutes on one cap booster on the hyperion isn't enough?

There are more Mids than lows to tank with after three damage mods..... etc etc etc ad infinitum.

After these armor changes armor will be in a much better place.

Alright, now at least it's not that awkward.
So the next logical step would be:

- make each and every local armor rep charge-able with nano-paste, I mean ALL of them;
- reduce bonus in charged mode to maybe 50% of base level;
- destroy ancillary thingy and pretend it never happened.

What it gives?
1. We eliminate must-have module. Must-have'ness is dumb, and always worth killing.
2. We introduce interesting gameplay around when to recharge each rep.
3. We bring back to life high-meta reps.
4. You, Fozzie, still have your burst tank option, also I dont personally agree with it. I mean, want a burst - overheat. Those heat rigs - they are right, I hope they'll be back soon.

Sounds good! Probably needs a bit of work to keep it from being grossly OP'd, but it's a decent idea. Sadly, Fozzie is married to the whole AAR module thing by now, so odds are we're stuck with it.

Ok, i really tried to like this whole idea of burst tanking pvp modules but i just cant, its flawed in its core.

The thing is really simple, if regular modules need significant amount of time to catch up to burst tanking modules ppl are only gonna use burst tanking ones. They are not using them for their "burst", they are using them because they will give them more EHP in the time frame of the fight.

Oversized shield mods are the main reason why active armor tanking is underpowered in comparison:


Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer: 60 armor/sec, 4320 armor per reload.

L-Ancillary Shield Booster: 97.5 shield/sec, 3510 total shield per reload.

These are both the cruiser-sized version. However cruisers can also fit the battleship version:

XL-Ancillary Shield Booster: 196 shield/sec, 8820 shield per reload.

The XL-ASB more than doubles your tank. It is far too easy to fit for what it does.



Active armor tanking will remain underpowered until it has an answer to oversizing or until oversizing ends. Personally I think it's obvious that oversizing is broken as hell and should go.

Fozzie is married to burst-tanking which I consider wrong for armor.
Ideal fight for shield tanker: you jump upon a camp, kill some and run away till reinforcement arrives; you defo need burst.
Ideal fight for armor tanker: you start a fight and as it escalates, your tank becomes even harder; you need a good buffer to hold incoming DPS till reactive hardener (or whatever) spools up. Keeping this buffer in a form of charges inside armor reps is a bit sneaky, but IMO it is a fair compromise.

Burst >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sustained for pvp.

Not realy

Burst>>>>sustained when you have <10-15 ppl at opposite fleet.

Burst >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sustained for pvp.

Holy crap, the man can't read. No wonder everything appears meaningless to him.

You appear to be under the impression that the AAR is better than an ASB in the long run. It isn't. If you could read and apply the slightest bit of math you would know this.

You also appear to be under the impression that hitpoints of armor are more valuable than hitpoints of shield, in any meaningful way, they aren't.

Indeed you appear to believe a cap-reliant AAR tank ship would have more lasting power than a cap-independant ASB ship, which is very amusing. I've got some bad news. The cap boosters you're running will empty your cargohold of charges just as fast and faster than an ASB will empty its cargohold of its charges. Not to mention an ASB ship inherently does more DPS by simple virtue of your 'so many more slots for armor tank' not having many, if any, space for damage modules.

Obviously the AAR is better, but that doesn't exclude it from being terrible.

- /facepalm

The fact that nobody uses anything other than 1600mm and 400mm plates is why they are excluded from the bonus
The 800mm and 200mm change is to help narrow that gap a bit (I know it doesn't narrow it all the way) and the 50mm change is there just to keep OCD people happy.

1600s still get the benefit of the new skill.

With 8 charges AMAR will repair 4275hp, with 8 uses MARII will repair 2560. And in one minute it takes AMAR to realod MARII will repair another 1600hp, or 4160 total, and this is assuming you have a ship with unlimited cap and run it constantly. So basically any time frame the so called burst module is plain better, even if you are completely ******** and start the repair cycle when its obvious that the fight will end soon and that you should just rep at 3/4.

Since anyone will obviously use this module instead of one repairer no matter what they do or want to accomplish, and it definitely wont make ppl reduce the number of reps (if i think that armor repairer will serve me better than anything else in that slot you can be sure i will think the same after you buff it). Since it is just a plain boost amount buff you acknowledge that the buff to reps is needed, why not just boost reps? This makes no sense at all, and all that burst tanking talk is bs.

New skill that reduces plate mass will hit new players. And also getting such a small buff to speed in practice does not solve anything, and will just force us to train another mediocre skill just because speed is that important. If you think plates are too heavy just reduce their mass.

The only problem with tanking in general is the stupidly powerful ASB and the fact that the signature radius, the main advantage of armor tanks, is less significant because mwd will boost it so much for both armor and shield that the difference will be too small to make a difference. Tweak that, dont introduce new modules and skills.

... This makes no sense at all, and all that burst tanking talk is bs....

But when I go up against high dps targets like blasters I don't need repairs nice and even, I need it bloody well now in the hopes that the boost lasts long enough for me to have gained the range necessary to mitigate damage, have capped the target out or killed him outright.

If you want burst tank - use shields. If you want armor - no burst then. Isnt it fair enough? Why you want everything homogenized?!