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 HippoKing    |
Posted - 2005.08.18 22:42:00 -
[181] Edited by: HippoKing on 18/08/2005 22:42:37 i have 13 worms in my hangar - if i put em all on escrow now, does it mean i got em all in one day? edit: just realised how much i am gonna get flamed for having that many worms  |
 HippoKing Caldari The I-Win Button |
Posted - 2005.08.18 22:42:00 -
[182] Edited by: HippoKing on 18/08/2005 22:42:37 i have 13 worms in my hangar - if i put em all on escrow now, does it mean i got em all in one day? edit: just realised how much i am gonna get flamed for having that many worms |
 Scoundrelus |
Posted - 2005.08.19 22:30:00 -
[183] Didnt read the whole thing but listen to this: Ive been playing for a month and a half and someone was kind enough to let me know where there is one uncamped complex. Well thats nice and all but I dont want to shackle myself to one system. Every... and i mean EVERY single Complex ive ever entered is camped. Sometimes by like 3 people! This is messed up, im still new and I just want to do a complex, its not too much to ask! I do see it from others perspectives though. Tens of thousands of players and only so many complexes. Maybe add more complexes? Also if theyre going to limit the usage of a complex to doing it once per week then that complex better drop something pretty damn nice when I do it. Anchoring cans in a complex is also ridiculous. Possible solutions? Well the limiter is nice. But 1 week? No way. How about this: Make complexes bigger? Example, one acceleration gate to get in, once your in the first stage there 2 more acceleration gates leading to two different areas with different bosses and such. This wouldnt eliminate camping but possibly reduce it. Also more complexes doesnt hurt. Oh and the reason a lot of complexes like 1/10, 2/10 are camped it because of those faction drops. NO NEWB SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET A FACTION BPC SO EASILY. You should do one of those and get a nice item at the end, and you should have difficulty doing it. However you have players who've been playing for a year or so take a Harpy or something into a complex and clear it out without breaking a sweat! Another thing: Harpies and other assault ships can enter frigate/destroyer Complexes. This should be removed. Yes I understand they are frigate hull class but nevertheless they are too powerful to be in 1/10 complexes. Leave newbie complexes to the newbs. =============================================== I will punch you with my laser! -Scoundrelus |
 Scoundrelus The Black Fleet |
Posted - 2005.08.19 22:30:00 -
[184] Didnt read the whole thing but listen to this: Ive been playing for a month and a half and someone was kind enough to let me know where there is one uncamped complex. Well thats nice and all but I dont want to shackle myself to one system. Every... and i mean EVERY single Complex ive ever entered is camped. Sometimes by like 3 people! This is messed up, im still new and I just want to do a complex, its not too much to ask! I do see it from others perspectives though. Tens of thousands of players and only so many complexes. Maybe add more complexes? Also if theyre going to limit the usage of a complex to doing it once per week then that complex better drop something pretty damn nice when I do it. Anchoring cans in a complex is also ridiculous. Possible solutions? Well the limiter is nice. But 1 week? No way. How about this: Make complexes bigger? Example, one acceleration gate to get in, once your in the first stage there 2 more acceleration gates leading to two different areas with different bosses and such. This wouldnt eliminate camping but possibly reduce it. Also more complexes doesnt hurt. Oh and the reason a lot of complexes like 1/10, 2/10 are camped it because of those faction drops. NO NEWB SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET A FACTION BPC SO EASILY. You should do one of those and get a nice item at the end, and you should have difficulty doing it. However you have players who've been playing for a year or so take a Harpy or something into a complex and clear it out without breaking a sweat! Another thing: Harpies and other assault ships can enter frigate/destroyer Complexes. This should be removed. Yes I understand they are frigate hull class but nevertheless they are too powerful to be in 1/10 complexes. Leave newbie complexes to the newbs. |
 Abrasion |
Posted - 2005.08.20 12:53:00 -
[185] How about they just make complexes harder again like they were originally? Obviously if they are being farmed/camped its because they are an easy and good source of money. When they were first added they were so hard that it was months before people even started doing them, when ccp made them easier. |
 Abrasion |
Posted - 2005.08.20 12:53:00 -
[186] How about they just make complexes harder again like they were originally? Obviously if they are being farmed/camped its because they are an easy and good source of money. When they were first added they were so hard that it was months before people even started doing them, when ccp made them easier. |
 Darlan Flame |
Posted - 2005.08.20 15:08:00 -
[187] In any MMO game where you have any sort of NPC/mob that is non-instanced with a very high possible reward for slaying it, said NPC will be farmed. This is not a new concept. In fact, it's happened in every MMO that has ever exsisted. FFXI, everquest, SWG, RO, you name it, if it had a monster out in the open that dropped awesome loot, you can be damned sure he was being farmed. Game designers saw this, and invented instancing. Now each player could have the full experiance of the NPC content without having a large portion of it ruined by the people farming the awesome item the devs put in the game to get you there in the first place. Farming is an old problem. The answer was instancing. If you dont want instancing, fine. You get farming. There are two choices. There is no middle ground. Personally, I'm in favor of instancing. Very little pvp goes on in complexes regardless. To me at least, fun complexes are > stupid refusal to instance stuff because thats just how we do things here. Of course, since everyone is so steadfast against instancing anything at all, ever, let me introduce you to me friend, Ub3rF4rm3r. He's here from server restart on, and he's going to be hoarding every last passkey and killing every single overseer in the entire region. He's then going to take his ultra high end loot and make millions, thanks to his superior ability to grind. Ah yes, he too believes that superior grinders and farmers are better than instancing. I bet you two will get along great. |
 Darlan Flame GoonFleet |
Posted - 2005.08.20 15:08:00 -
[188] In any MMO game where you have any sort of NPC/mob that is non-instanced with a very high possible reward for slaying it, said NPC will be farmed. This is not a new concept. In fact, it's happened in every MMO that has ever exsisted. FFXI, everquest, SWG, RO, you name it, if it had a monster out in the open that dropped awesome loot, you can be damned sure he was being farmed. Game designers saw this, and invented instancing. Now each player could have the full experiance of the NPC content without having a large portion of it ruined by the people farming the awesome item the devs put in the game to get you there in the first place. Farming is an old problem. The answer was instancing. If you dont want instancing, fine. You get farming. There are two choices. There is no middle ground. Personally, I'm in favor of instancing. Very little pvp goes on in complexes regardless. To me at least, fun complexes are > stupid refusal to instance stuff because thats just how we do things here. Of course, since everyone is so steadfast against instancing anything at all, ever, let me introduce you to me friend, Ub3rF4rm3r. He's here from server restart on, and he's going to be hoarding every last passkey and killing every single overseer in the entire region. He's then going to take his ultra high end loot and make millions, thanks to his superior ability to grind. Ah yes, he too believes that superior grinders and farmers are better than instancing. I bet you two will get along great. |
Scoundrelus |
Posted - 2005.08.20 15:31:00 -
[189] The only game with 0 Farming (that bothers players) is Guild Wars. Since you get your own copy of the map and all. You can still farm but it doesnt bother players. =============================================== I will punch you with my laser! -Scoundrelus |
Scoundrelus The Black Fleet |
Posted - 2005.08.20 15:31:00 -
[190] The only game with 0 Farming (that bothers players) is Guild Wars. Since you get your own copy of the map and all. You can still farm but it doesnt bother players. |
 Inside Out |
Posted - 2005.08.20 18:30:00 -
[191] Edited by: Inside Out on 20/08/2005 18:31:46 Read above, for the first couple of months that complexes were added, they were not farmed atall, this is because they were super hard and there was a high risk when trying to do one. Now, CCP have nerfed the complexes in difficulty big time, now people can breeze through them without risk mostly (apart from the 10/10 sansha, its not possible even with a dreadnought, but thats a 1 off) - please note that nobody farms the 10/10 sansha complexes, NOBODY. Make the complexes harder again or forever watch them be farmed. |
 Inside Out |
Posted - 2005.08.20 18:30:00 -
[192] Edited by: Inside Out on 20/08/2005 18:31:46 Read above, for the first couple of months that complexes were added, they were not farmed atall, this is because they were super hard and there was a high risk when trying to do one. Now, CCP have nerfed the complexes in difficulty big time, now people can breeze through them without risk mostly (apart from the 10/10 sansha, its not possible even with a dreadnought, but thats a 1 off) - please note that nobody farms the 10/10 sansha complexes, NOBODY. Make the complexes harder again or forever watch them be farmed. |
 HippoKing |
Posted - 2005.08.21 14:27:00 -
[193] Screw faction ship BPCs - they are worth ****all now - i do complexes for faction loot |
HippoKing Caldari The I-Win Button |
Posted - 2005.08.21 14:27:00 -
[194] Screw faction ship BPCs - they are worth ****all now - i do complexes for faction loot |
 Zaldiri |
Posted - 2005.08.21 15:49:00 -
[195] This is wy I only to low sec complexes. Theres hardly anyone in them... and if there is anyone there who you dont like (cos there farming) you can attack them. ----------------------------------------------- Admiral of King Frieza's Super Saiyan fleet. |
 Zaldiri Caldari Automated Industries |
Posted - 2005.08.21 15:49:00 -
[196] This is wy I only to low sec complexes. Theres hardly anyone in them... and if there is anyone there who you dont like (cos there farming) you can attack them. ----------------------------------------------- Admiral of King Frieza's Super Saiyan fleet. |
 Talio ZomB |
Posted - 2005.08.22 12:13:00 -
[197] Just from reading most of the comments here I can tell a lot of the complexes ppl are doing are serpentis. Here's a question, any of you found faction loot in a Gurista complex? If I get to a serpentis 3/10 that has a stronghold I am guaranteed nice loot. But in all the many times I have done gurista 1/10, 2/10, 4/10 and 8/10, I have never ever found any faction loot. This is highly disappointing as, (me being selfish), I even solo the 8/10s which requires hauling like 6000 torps that I bought for like 2000 isk each through 0.0 to the complex system then getting my raven and slugging it out for a few hours to complete them to find only overseers, granted the overseers is worth a fair whack but I want faction gear. Do ccp hate us for hanging around Caldari space and the 0.0 around it? |
 Talio ZomB |
Posted - 2005.08.22 12:13:00 -
[198] Just from reading most of the comments here I can tell a lot of the complexes ppl are doing are serpentis. Here's a question, any of you found faction loot in a Gurista complex? If I get to a serpentis 3/10 that has a stronghold I am guaranteed nice loot. But in all the many times I have done gurista 1/10, 2/10, 4/10 and 8/10, I have never ever found any faction loot. This is highly disappointing as, (me being selfish), I even solo the 8/10s which requires hauling like 6000 torps that I bought for like 2000 isk each through 0.0 to the complex system then getting my raven and slugging it out for a few hours to complete them to find only overseers, granted the overseers is worth a fair whack but I want faction gear. Do ccp hate us for hanging around Caldari space and the 0.0 around it? |
Jasmine Constantine |
Posted - 2005.08.22 12:31:00 -
[199] Interesting thread, I can see how all this complex-camping is annoying for sure. I'm thinking the only solution is player-led response though surely? Wouldn't war-deccing and cleaning up the scoundrels be the cleanest route? Or maybe paying a small merc corp to clean out the campers? The one actual gameplay change that might be would looking at could be to stop starter corp members from being able to access complexes (because they are immune to wardecs) and that way anyone hunting for the fat loot would be facing potential risk? Anyway because I'm such a total complex/agent/anything that doesn't involve drones and guns in 0.0 noob, what is a Vigilant btw, and what does it do? _________________ Shoot Tyrants - join Jericho Fraction! |
 Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2005.08.22 12:31:00 -
[200] Interesting thread, I can see how all this complex-camping is annoying for sure. I'm thinking the only solution is player-led response though surely? Wouldn't war-deccing and cleaning up the scoundrels be the cleanest route? Or maybe paying a small merc corp to clean out the campers? The one actual gameplay change that might be would looking at could be to stop starter corp members from being able to access complexes (because they are immune to wardecs) and that way anyone hunting for the fat loot would be facing potential risk? Anyway because I'm such a total complex/agent/anything that doesn't involve drones and guns in 0.0 noob, what is a Vigilant btw, and what does it do? Star Fraction is recruiting |
nahtoh |
Posted - 2005.08.22 19:06:00 -
[201]
and 4/10s drop nothing...see a problem here? lucked out once and got a gila BPc...apart from that guristas 4/10 scout outposts drop crap...granted I don't farm it I may run it once every couple of days when I don't have lot of time online... "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS) |
 nahtoh Caldari Bull Industries |
Posted - 2005.08.22 19:06:00 -
[202]
and 4/10s drop nothing...see a problem here? lucked out once and got a gila BPc...apart from that guristas 4/10 scout outposts drop crap...granted I don't farm it I may run it once every couple of days when I don't have lot of time online... ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
 Mangus Thermopyle |
Posted - 2005.08.23 13:45:00 -
[203] The biggest problems are at the easy complexes, and they are the most important one to keep clean, so corp war wont solve much (could still be fun though). I wrote a suggestion to a solution in this thread. |
 Mangus Thermopyle Chosen Path Lotka Volterra |
Posted - 2005.08.23 13:45:00 -
[204] The biggest problems are at the easy complexes, and they are the most important one to keep clean, so corp war wont solve much (could still be fun though). I wrote a suggestion to a solution in this thread. |
Trelennen |
Posted - 2005.08.23 16:32:00 -
[205]
Well, these are not that easy for young players. So if you make all complexes more difficult, you prevent new players to have fun doing them. But still, it's way too easy for experienced players, and being that easy for them with such rewards in them, it's the best time investment for advanced players to make money, and that's the problem. I can't figure out a solution for having complexes doable by young players and still not too easy or unaccessible for more experienced ones (maybe a limit on total SP in navigation, spaceship command, gunnery and other combat skills?). Preventing starter corp people from running complexes is such a great idea... Currently complexes is one of the fun thing a solo or mostly solo player can do with agent running. And you want then to decrease their fun possibility, very nice. Having the complexes in a all respawn, and in another place is a good idea for me. Specialy if at the same time you have a limit of time between two complexes you can run (for each difficulty, higher ones needing more time between two). Make the key not viable outside the complex, and the key holder respawn when key looter has gone outside complex (and then can't enter that kind of complex for x hours). The locking of the entrance gate when there is already a player or a gang inside is imho a good idea. That's one of the reason you see so many jerks in there, who will get in after you and claiming the complex is theirs, and steal you some loot while you're fighting the other pirates, or steal you the boss. Making all complexes in low sec so you can attack that kind of guy? Great, then again you prevent any young player to enjoy a complex, because there will always be a jerk (strangely most of those jerks have 20M+ SP...) who will come, and you won't be able to do anything because you'd have no chance against them. Even worse, imagine you're struggling against those pirates, cause at your leel of skill there is a real challenge a real risk. Then come this *** who just add the little bit damage to what pirates do to kill you. What a big risk for him, gee... Also, given comments in there, I can see that some complexes are more farmed than others, and that is because some drops much better. Serpentis seem to be the best reward complexes, with a good loot each time you can do it with all structures and pirates in it. In addition it seems there is lots of them, at different difficulty levels. Take Sansha's, there's nearly none at difficulty 2/10, instead you have lots of drone complexes. Never anybody in those drone complexes, because only thing you get is some minerals (and not that much). Guess you can do what, 40K ISK running a drone 2/10 complex? I get more in 1/10 sansha only with bountys (and you don't have a good drop each time, far from that, even when you got the complex full of the droping pirates). |
 Trelennen Disturbed Hoggs |
Posted - 2005.08.23 16:32:00 -
[206]
Well, these are not that easy for young players. So if you make all complexes more difficult, you prevent new players to have fun doing them. But still, it's way too easy for experienced players, and being that easy for them with such rewards in them, it's the best time investment for advanced players to make money, and that's the problem. I can't figure out a solution for having complexes doable by young players and still not too easy or unaccessible for more experienced ones (maybe a limit on total SP in navigation, spaceship command, gunnery and other combat skills?). Preventing starter corp people from running complexes is such a great idea... Currently complexes is one of the fun thing a solo or mostly solo player can do with agent running. And you want then to decrease their fun possibility, very nice. Having the complexes in a all respawn, and in another place is a good idea for me. Specialy if at the same time you have a limit of time between two complexes you can run (for each difficulty, higher ones needing more time between two). Make the key not viable outside the complex, and the key holder respawn when key looter has gone outside complex (and then can't enter that kind of complex for x hours). The locking of the entrance gate when there is already a player or a gang inside is imho a good idea. That's one of the reason you see so many jerks in there, who will get in after you and claiming the complex is theirs, and steal you some loot while you're fighting the other pirates, or steal you the boss. Making all complexes in low sec so you can attack that kind of guy? Great, then again you prevent any young player to enjoy a complex, because there will always be a jerk (strangely most of those jerks have 20M+ SP...) who will come, and you won't be able to do anything because you'd have no chance against them. Even worse, imagine you're struggling against those pirates, cause at your leel of skill there is a real challenge a real risk. Then come this *** who just add the little bit damage to what pirates do to kill you. What a big risk for him, gee... Also, given comments in there, I can see that some complexes are more farmed than others, and that is because some drops much better. Serpentis seem to be the best reward complexes, with a good loot each time you can do it with all structures and pirates in it. In addition it seems there is lots of them, at different difficulty levels. Take Sansha's, there's nearly none at difficulty 2/10, instead you have lots of drone complexes. Never anybody in those drone complexes, because only thing you get is some minerals (and not that much). Guess you can do what, 40K ISK running a drone 2/10 complex? I get more in 1/10 sansha only with bountys (and you don't have a good drop each time, far from that, even when you got the complex full of the droping pirates). ===== !!! Fix SB - Love for AFs - Fix drones AI !!! |
 schartok |
Posted - 2005.08.29 18:03:00 -
[207] while i may not have a great answer for farming (i prefer soloing instances... hopefully difficult, but doable-with-care ones) i do look forward to finding giant secure containers inside deadspace complexes, it affords me the opportunity to log in with ms disposable and cost someone untold amounts of isk for the price of a pretty explosion)  |
 schartok |
Posted - 2005.08.29 18:03:00 -
[208] while i may not have a great answer for farming (i prefer soloing instances... hopefully difficult, but doable-with-care ones) i do look forward to finding giant secure containers inside deadspace complexes, it affords me the opportunity to log in with ms disposable and cost someone untold amounts of isk for the price of a pretty explosion) |
goobet |
Posted - 2005.08.29 19:58:00 -
[209] Edited by: goobet on 29/08/2005 19:58:56 just move em out to 0.0 they wont be nearly as crowded.  |
 goobet |
Posted - 2005.08.29 19:58:00 -
[210] Edited by: goobet on 29/08/2005 19:58:56 just move em out to 0.0 they wont be nearly as crowded. |
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Originally by: HippoKing
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