EVE Search - Farming complexes

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sonofollo Caldari Doomheim	Posted - 2005.09.01 06:18:00 - [241] im with that last post - ok so there are easy complexes in high sec space that are full pretty much all the time. Stop being a carebear and get into low sec. Im a happy little camper now - CCP 4tw.
sonofollo Caldari Doomheim	Posted - 2005.09.01 06:18:00 - [242] im with that last post - ok so there are easy complexes in high sec space that are full pretty much all the time. Stop being a carebear and get into low sec. Im a happy little camper now - CCP 4tw.
Sarduk Larish	Posted - 2005.09.01 09:43:00 - [243] I agree that only 1/10 and 2/10 complexes should be found in hi-sec space...but a stupid amount of money can still be made from certain 1/10 complexes that drop faction frigate BPC's. I often went into one of these when anything else was too hard, only to find the ship that drops the BPC (which coincedentaly is the one that dropps the key i needed for the next level) destroyed with everything else remaining. I was eventually forced to buy a key just to do the next stage and, suprise suprise, it hadnt been touched (the next stage never dropps a BPC). It doesnt bother me now of course, as i can attack cruisers in lowsec for a challange, but back then it was the 'peak' of my ability and it was denied by people obviously farming. I think the only solution to this would be (unfortunatly) removing the BPC from the 1/10 complex, and limiting BPC dropps to low sec complexes.
Sarduk Larish Amarr Equitatus Vindex	Posted - 2005.09.01 09:43:00 - [244] I agree that only 1/10 and 2/10 complexes should be found in hi-sec space...but a stupid amount of money can still be made from certain 1/10 complexes that drop faction frigate BPC's. I often went into one of these when anything else was too hard, only to find the ship that drops the BPC (which coincedentaly is the one that dropps the key i needed for the next level) destroyed with everything else remaining. I was eventually forced to buy a key just to do the next stage and, suprise suprise, it hadnt been touched (the next stage never dropps a BPC). It doesnt bother me now of course, as i can attack cruisers in lowsec for a challange, but back then it was the 'peak' of my ability and it was denied by people obviously farming. I think the only solution to this would be (unfortunatly) removing the BPC from the 1/10 complex, and limiting BPC dropps to low sec complexes. _______________________________________________ This dose of neutrality and reason brought to you by Khanid Krunch (2% Vitoc)-The only way to start your day.If your hungry in the morning reach for KK
Sarduk Larish Amarr Equitatus Vindex	Posted - 2005.09.01 09:43:00 - [245] I agree that only 1/10 and 2/10 complexes should be found in hi-sec space...but a stupid amount of money can still be made from certain 1/10 complexes that drop faction frigate BPC's. I often went into one of these when anything else was too hard, only to find the ship that drops the BPC (which coincedentaly is the one that dropps the key i needed for the next level) destroyed with everything else remaining. I was eventually forced to buy a key just to do the next stage and, suprise suprise, it hadnt been touched (the next stage never dropps a BPC). It doesnt bother me now of course, as i can attack cruisers in lowsec for a challange, but back then it was the 'peak' of my ability and it was denied by people obviously farming. I think the only solution to this would be (unfortunatly) removing the BPC from the 1/10 complex, and limiting BPC dropps to low sec complexes. _______________________________________________ This dose of neutrality and reason brought to you by Khanid Krunch (2% Vitoc)-The only way to start your day.If your hungry in the morning reach for KK
Trelennen	Posted - 2005.09.01 14:10:00 - [246] Originally by: Sarduk Larish I often went into one of these when anything else was too hard, only to find the ship that drops the BPC (which coincedentaly is the one that dropps the key i needed for the next level) destroyed with everything else remaining. I was eventually forced to buy a key just to do the next stage and, suprise suprise, it hadnt been touched (the next stage never dropps a BPC). Yeah, that's the first that should be changed, and been changed quick. Nobody, except people wanting fun, is doing the last stage on these, 'cause if you have a drop, it'll be on the key keeper, not on last stage, which is silly. I wonder if there's not a bug with the commander in 3rd stage, at least for 1/10: when you hit him, the combat log says sansha outpost commander, but when you kill him and go see in your journal tab in the wallet, it says something like centii something, which would explain why it never drops anything. No good loot should drop on the key keeper, or if it drops, with a chance near to null. You often find complexes with everything up except the key keeper, because for somebody in an AS, there's no risk to go straight on the key keeper, kill him and loot him, while having all the other pirates shooting at him, and that's plain wrong. If having an AS make the complex too easy, they shouldn't be allowed to go in. I know there are still frigates, and that's the class of the ship which is used to allow or not entrance, but tech level should be considered too imho. In addition, it seems that there is an unbalanced between types of complexes (eg. sansha, serpentis, guristas, etc.): for a given level, some will drop much more than others, which is again plain wrong. As for sansha, there is not a single 2/10 sansha complex, wtf? Only drones 2/10, and drones complexes are much less fun than pirates (I hate drones personaly), and are always less rewarding, 'cause with the minerals you get in there you make less than just with the bountys in pirates plex. I would see something like that: - equal repartition of complexes (eg. as many sansha 1/10 than serpentis 1/10, same for 2/10 or so) - same loot chances between these types. - no faction loot/BPCs on key keeper (or with a really low chance) - chances of loot depending of complexe quality. Currently in 1/10 and 3/10 you can get frig BPC (in 2/10 too, and 4/10 also I think). I take random figures for the show, would need some work around of course: like 1/20 chance to drop a faction BPC OR a faction loot on 1/10 commander and maybe 1/500 on the key keeper, and in 3/10 plexes it would be like 1/10 chance of a faction BPC OR a faction loot. (And maybe add in there for 4/10 a slight chance when you got faction bpc to have a faction cruiser, like 1/1000, as 5/10+ are mainly meant for BS - they can't enter lower ones - and it would make sense to be able to get a faction cruiser in a cruiser imho). Of course the more difficult and rewardy the complex is, the more it's moved to a lower sec zone. This would leave some nice complexes for low SP characters in high sec, with still a small to chance to have a worthy loot (should not be everytime you run it of course, far from here). And as easier plex would have much less chance to drop worthy loot, they won't be farmed as much, and lots of SP players will prefer to go for higher difficulty plexes in low sec 'cause they will give them more loot, instead of ruining others experience in low difficulty plexes.
Trelennen Disturbed Hoggs	Posted - 2005.09.01 14:10:00 - [247] Originally by: Sarduk Larish I often went into one of these when anything else was too hard, only to find the ship that drops the BPC (which coincedentaly is the one that dropps the key i needed for the next level) destroyed with everything else remaining. I was eventually forced to buy a key just to do the next stage and, suprise suprise, it hadnt been touched (the next stage never dropps a BPC). Yeah, that's the first that should be changed, and been changed quick. Nobody, except people wanting fun, is doing the last stage on these, 'cause if you have a drop, it'll be on the key keeper, not on last stage, which is silly. I wonder if there's not a bug with the commander in 3rd stage, at least for 1/10: when you hit him, the combat log says sansha outpost commander, but when you kill him and go see in your journal tab in the wallet, it says something like centii something, which would explain why it never drops anything. No good loot should drop on the key keeper, or if it drops, with a chance near to null. You often find complexes with everything up except the key keeper, because for somebody in an AS, there's no risk to go straight on the key keeper, kill him and loot him, while having all the other pirates shooting at him, and that's plain wrong. If having an AS make the complex too easy, they shouldn't be allowed to go in. I know there are still frigates, and that's the class of the ship which is used to allow or not entrance, but tech level should be considered too imho. In addition, it seems that there is an unbalanced between types of complexes (eg. sansha, serpentis, guristas, etc.): for a given level, some will drop much more than others, which is again plain wrong. As for sansha, there is not a single 2/10 sansha complex, wtf? Only drones 2/10, and drones complexes are much less fun than pirates (I hate drones personaly), and are always less rewarding, 'cause with the minerals you get in there you make less than just with the bountys in pirates plex. I would see something like that: - equal repartition of complexes (eg. as many sansha 1/10 than serpentis 1/10, same for 2/10 or so) - same loot chances between these types. - no faction loot/BPCs on key keeper (or with a really low chance) - chances of loot depending of complexe quality. Currently in 1/10 and 3/10 you can get frig BPC (in 2/10 too, and 4/10 also I think). I take random figures for the show, would need some work around of course: like 1/20 chance to drop a faction BPC OR a faction loot on 1/10 commander and maybe 1/500 on the key keeper, and in 3/10 plexes it would be like 1/10 chance of a faction BPC OR a faction loot. (And maybe add in there for 4/10 a slight chance when you got faction bpc to have a faction cruiser, like 1/1000, as 5/10+ are mainly meant for BS - they can't enter lower ones - and it would make sense to be able to get a faction cruiser in a cruiser imho). Of course the more difficult and rewardy the complex is, the more it's moved to a lower sec zone. This would leave some nice complexes for low SP characters in high sec, with still a small to chance to have a worthy loot (should not be everytime you run it of course, far from here). And as easier plex would have much less chance to drop worthy loot, they won't be farmed as much, and lots of SP players will prefer to go for higher difficulty plexes in low sec 'cause they will give them more loot, instead of ruining others experience in low difficulty plexes. ===== !!! Fix SB - Love for AFs - Fix drones AI !!!
Trelennen Disturbed Hoggs	Posted - 2005.09.01 14:10:00 - [248] Originally by: Sarduk Larish I often went into one of these when anything else was too hard, only to find the ship that drops the BPC (which coincedentaly is the one that dropps the key i needed for the next level) destroyed with everything else remaining. I was eventually forced to buy a key just to do the next stage and, suprise suprise, it hadnt been touched (the next stage never dropps a BPC). Yeah, that's the first that should be changed, and been changed quick. Nobody, except people wanting fun, is doing the last stage on these, 'cause if you have a drop, it'll be on the key keeper, not on last stage, which is silly. I wonder if there's not a bug with the commander in 3rd stage, at least for 1/10: when you hit him, the combat log says sansha outpost commander, but when you kill him and go see in your journal tab in the wallet, it says something like centii something, which would explain why it never drops anything. No good loot should drop on the key keeper, or if it drops, with a chance near to null. You often find complexes with everything up except the key keeper, because for somebody in an AS, there's no risk to go straight on the key keeper, kill him and loot him, while having all the other pirates shooting at him, and that's plain wrong. If having an AS make the complex too easy, they shouldn't be allowed to go in. I know there are still frigates, and that's the class of the ship which is used to allow or not entrance, but tech level should be considered too imho. In addition, it seems that there is an unbalanced between types of complexes (eg. sansha, serpentis, guristas, etc.): for a given level, some will drop much more than others, which is again plain wrong. As for sansha, there is not a single 2/10 sansha complex, wtf? Only drones 2/10, and drones complexes are much less fun than pirates (I hate drones personaly), and are always less rewarding, 'cause with the minerals you get in there you make less than just with the bountys in pirates plex. I would see something like that: - equal repartition of complexes (eg. as many sansha 1/10 than serpentis 1/10, same for 2/10 or so) - same loot chances between these types. - no faction loot/BPCs on key keeper (or with a really low chance) - chances of loot depending of complexe quality. Currently in 1/10 and 3/10 you can get frig BPC (in 2/10 too, and 4/10 also I think). I take random figures for the show, would need some work around of course: like 1/20 chance to drop a faction BPC OR a faction loot on 1/10 commander and maybe 1/500 on the key keeper, and in 3/10 plexes it would be like 1/10 chance of a faction BPC OR a faction loot. (And maybe add in there for 4/10 a slight chance when you got faction bpc to have a faction cruiser, like 1/1000, as 5/10+ are mainly meant for BS - they can't enter lower ones - and it would make sense to be able to get a faction cruiser in a cruiser imho). Of course the more difficult and rewardy the complex is, the more it's moved to a lower sec zone. This would leave some nice complexes for low SP characters in high sec, with still a small to chance to have a worthy loot (should not be everytime you run it of course, far from here). And as easier plex would have much less chance to drop worthy loot, they won't be farmed as much, and lots of SP players will prefer to go for higher difficulty plexes in low sec 'cause they will give them more loot, instead of ruining others experience in low difficulty plexes. ===== !!! Fix SB - Love for AFs - Fix drones AI !!!
Lobo Noturno	Posted - 2005.09.01 19:05:00 - [249] Let me give you guys a newbie view of the complexes issues and quailties... First of all, I do not understand why people are so angry about how easy is to get a bpc on 1/10 and 3/10 complexes. If I understood correctly, these ships are supposed to be used in fleet and PVP battles, and so should be "disposable". If they are disposable, then they must also be common enough to get. If they are rare, no one will use them in battle, not to mention the fact that they are inferior to tech 2 ships anyway... The only reason why there are people farming complexes right now is because these BPCs are still too valuable, selling for several millions, but this is not a fault from CCP design, nor is a long term issue, if you've been following the price trends on those ships/bpcs. On the last month, Faction frigates droped from 50+ million to just 20 mill, and faction cruisers came down to 50mill from a previous 100mill+. As market gets used to them, they will become cheaper, and farmers looking for easy profits will have to move to other activities that are more rewarding. No need to react on that. And the current dificulty and rewards are great for newbies. I think that maybe they should also make missions to give out faction bpcs more frequently, so that things get more balanced and people actually start using these ships for PVP, instead of hoarding them... One thing that I do agree, though, is that tech2 ships should be barred from entering low lvl complexes. It is just not fair to have invulnerable ship comming inside, taking down the gatekeeper and moving on without risk. One last thing: I did not notice that much camping on complexes. I was able to get the gatekeeper at least 4 of the 6 times I tried, and got one vigilant and one daredevil bpcs. Sure, there were times were people were already clearing it, but nothing absurd, considering that I'm playing only weekends and most of the time i am mining, instead of doing complexes... Lobo
Lobo Noturno	Posted - 2005.09.01 19:05:00 - [250] Let me give you guys a newbie view of the complexes issues and quailties... First of all, I do not understand why people are so angry about how easy is to get a bpc on 1/10 and 3/10 complexes. If I understood correctly, these ships are supposed to be used in fleet and PVP battles, and so should be "disposable". If they are disposable, then they must also be common enough to get. If they are rare, no one will use them in battle, not to mention the fact that they are inferior to tech 2 ships anyway... The only reason why there are people farming complexes right now is because these BPCs are still too valuable, selling for several millions, but this is not a fault from CCP design, nor is a long term issue, if you've been following the price trends on those ships/bpcs. On the last month, Faction frigates droped from 50+ million to just 20 mill, and faction cruisers came down to 50mill from a previous 100mill+. As market gets used to them, they will become cheaper, and farmers looking for easy profits will have to move to other activities that are more rewarding. No need to react on that. And the current dificulty and rewards are great for newbies. I think that maybe they should also make missions to give out faction bpcs more frequently, so that things get more balanced and people actually start using these ships for PVP, instead of hoarding them... One thing that I do agree, though, is that tech2 ships should be barred from entering low lvl complexes. It is just not fair to have invulnerable ship comming inside, taking down the gatekeeper and moving on without risk. One last thing: I did not notice that much camping on complexes. I was able to get the gatekeeper at least 4 of the 6 times I tried, and got one vigilant and one daredevil bpcs. Sure, there were times were people were already clearing it, but nothing absurd, considering that I'm playing only weekends and most of the time i am mining, instead of doing complexes... Lobo

Lobo Noturno	Posted - 2005.09.01 19:05:00 - [251] Let me give you guys a newbie view of the complexes issues and quailties... First of all, I do not understand why people are so angry about how easy is to get a bpc on 1/10 and 3/10 complexes. If I understood correctly, these ships are supposed to be used in fleet and PVP battles, and so should be "disposable". If they are disposable, then they must also be common enough to get. If they are rare, no one will use them in battle, not to mention the fact that they are inferior to tech 2 ships anyway... The only reason why there are people farming complexes right now is because these BPCs are still too valuable, selling for several millions, but this is not a fault from CCP design, nor is a long term issue, if you've been following the price trends on those ships/bpcs. On the last month, Faction frigates droped from 50+ million to just 20 mill, and faction cruisers came down to 50mill from a previous 100mill+. As market gets used to them, they will become cheaper, and farmers looking for easy profits will have to move to other activities that are more rewarding. No need to react on that. And the current dificulty and rewards are great for newbies. I think that maybe they should also make missions to give out faction bpcs more frequently, so that things get more balanced and people actually start using these ships for PVP, instead of hoarding them... One thing that I do agree, though, is that tech2 ships should be barred from entering low lvl complexes. It is just not fair to have invulnerable ship comming inside, taking down the gatekeeper and moving on without risk. One last thing: I did not notice that much camping on complexes. I was able to get the gatekeeper at least 4 of the 6 times I tried, and got one vigilant and one daredevil bpcs. Sure, there were times were people were already clearing it, but nothing absurd, considering that I'm playing only weekends and most of the time i am mining, instead of doing complexes... Lobo
velocoscientist	Posted - 2005.09.02 04:53:00 - [252] I read through all the previous posts but still not sure if i can say something of any use to anyone Anyway I’ve been playing for a couple of months but I’m not any good in fighting as i still train learning skills and mine. I have only found out about complexes about a week ago and been in only one (a 1/10 i think-which was actually difficult for me). As a result i don't know many things about complexes but i can say this: why can't complexes be as missions, i.e. the more difficult they are the more profitable they are (and as there are 10 different complexes instead of only 4 this could work out much better than missions). Experiences players will not be interested in 1-2-3/10 etc complexes which would be left to noobs. In addition more complexes would make it possible for everyone to try them (as is the case for kill missions). Is it farming when you do one kill missions after another? Of course not, especially after the missile nerf (which incidentally was a punishment only to newer players who never had the chance to make some money out of lvl4, if u think about it). It seems to me that only discrepancies with the risk vs reward system can lead experienced players to farm ‘easy’ complexes which are really meant for noobs (like me) Of course if complexes are too few for too many players (remember there was a new record lately), more complexes is the solution (with less ISK in rewards), if we want complexes to be an alternative to kill missions. Else, there is really no reason for complexes to exist at all. Finally I agree with people who say that economic principles may correct the problem to a point: As items become easier to find their price will decrease and people (especially experienced ones) will stop being interested in them and go elsewhere to make some isk. In any case something should be done if things are really that bad, but great care must be exercised so the solution will not create more (different) problems. I think this was somewhat the case after the missile nerf, as people who have invested in missile fighting had a greater loss and noobs just lost a chance older players had. A possible, but much more difficult solution to the later would perhaps be lvl5 missions which would give greater reward but with much more difficulty. Anyone who has gotten this far must read this, too: Please do something about ore thieves, I hate them
velocoscientist	Posted - 2005.09.02 04:53:00 - [253] I read through all the previous posts but still not sure if i can say something of any use to anyone Anyway I’ve been playing for a couple of months but I’m not any good in fighting as i still train learning skills and mine. I have only found out about complexes about a week ago and been in only one (a 1/10 i think-which was actually difficult for me). As a result i don't know many things about complexes but i can say this: why can't complexes be as missions, i.e. the more difficult they are the more profitable they are (and as there are 10 different complexes instead of only 4 this could work out much better than missions). Experiences players will not be interested in 1-2-3/10 etc complexes which would be left to noobs. In addition more complexes would make it possible for everyone to try them (as is the case for kill missions). Is it farming when you do one kill missions after another? Of course not, especially after the missile nerf (which incidentally was a punishment only to newer players who never had the chance to make some money out of lvl4, if u think about it). It seems to me that only discrepancies with the risk vs reward system can lead experienced players to farm ‘easy’ complexes which are really meant for noobs (like me) Of course if complexes are too few for too many players (remember there was a new record lately), more complexes is the solution (with less ISK in rewards), if we want complexes to be an alternative to kill missions. Else, there is really no reason for complexes to exist at all. Finally I agree with people who say that economic principles may correct the problem to a point: As items become easier to find their price will decrease and people (especially experienced ones) will stop being interested in them and go elsewhere to make some isk. In any case something should be done if things are really that bad, but great care must be exercised so the solution will not create more (different) problems. I think this was somewhat the case after the missile nerf, as people who have invested in missile fighting had a greater loss and noobs just lost a chance older players had. A possible, but much more difficult solution to the later would perhaps be lvl5 missions which would give greater reward but with much more difficulty. Anyone who has gotten this far must read this, too: Please do something about ore thieves, I hate them
velocoscientist	Posted - 2005.09.02 04:53:00 - [254] I read through all the previous posts but still not sure if i can say something of any use to anyone Anyway I’ve been playing for a couple of months but I’m not any good in fighting as i still train learning skills and mine. I have only found out about complexes about a week ago and been in only one (a 1/10 i think-which was actually difficult for me). As a result i don't know many things about complexes but i can say this: why can't complexes be as missions, i.e. the more difficult they are the more profitable they are (and as there are 10 different complexes instead of only 4 this could work out much better than missions). Experiences players will not be interested in 1-2-3/10 etc complexes which would be left to noobs. In addition more complexes would make it possible for everyone to try them (as is the case for kill missions). Is it farming when you do one kill missions after another? Of course not, especially after the missile nerf (which incidentally was a punishment only to newer players who never had the chance to make some money out of lvl4, if u think about it). It seems to me that only discrepancies with the risk vs reward system can lead experienced players to farm ‘easy’ complexes which are really meant for noobs (like me) Of course if complexes are too few for too many players (remember there was a new record lately), more complexes is the solution (with less ISK in rewards), if we want complexes to be an alternative to kill missions. Else, there is really no reason for complexes to exist at all. Finally I agree with people who say that economic principles may correct the problem to a point: As items become easier to find their price will decrease and people (especially experienced ones) will stop being interested in them and go elsewhere to make some isk. In any case something should be done if things are really that bad, but great care must be exercised so the solution will not create more (different) problems. I think this was somewhat the case after the missile nerf, as people who have invested in missile fighting had a greater loss and noobs just lost a chance older players had. A possible, but much more difficult solution to the later would perhaps be lvl5 missions which would give greater reward but with much more difficulty. Anyone who has gotten this far must read this, too: Please do something about ore thieves, I hate them
Iminent Penance The Last Ravens	Posted - 2007.02.13 16:08:00 - [255] Ah but just remember this: the main farmers nowadays are corps and alliances, why? Greed. boB alone controls about 15 10/10 deadspaces, and they wont allow even their friends to enter em. the only true way of eradicating this unfairness to everyone not in high poisitions within the biggest corps of eve is instancing, which would in the end, drastically reduce item values. Fair? No. 1/10-5/10 is camped beyond reason by farmers, 5/10-10/10 is all alliance territory. It cuts out chances for anyone that doesn't suckup to the big guys =-/
Iminent Penance The Last Ravens	Posted - 2007.02.13 16:08:00 - [256] Ah but just remember this: the main farmers nowadays are corps and alliances, why? Greed. boB alone controls about 15 10/10 deadspaces, and they wont allow even their friends to enter em. the only true way of eradicating this unfairness to everyone not in high poisitions within the biggest corps of eve is instancing, which would in the end, drastically reduce item values. Fair? No. 1/10-5/10 is camped beyond reason by farmers, 5/10-10/10 is all alliance territory. It cuts out chances for anyone that doesn't suckup to the big guys =-/
redrick002	Posted - 2007.02.13 19:04:00 - [257] I think one week is a very good time period for entering complex. That can prevent over farming
Midori Blacke Amarr Cor Unum	Posted - 2007.02.14 10:49:00 - [258] Necro is bad, okey?
Thira Rans	Posted - 2007.02.14 10:56:00 - [259] Honestly, I hope that in the long term the static complexes are nerfed and that hidden complexes get a boost. Complexes are there to provide a challenging PvE ground. Fact with static complexes is that they are farmed and provide a steady income for Alliances and Corps. Its funny that propably those people are also complaining about farming lvl 4 in high sec (ok, the alliances fight for their right, some with help from god, lol). But anyway. Does this make sense in the EvE philosophy? Considering that these static complexes yield much more valuable loot than almost anything else, not imho. I would prefer that in the long term the hidden complexes which you can't farm, give the better loot.
Elle D Caldari Ars Caelestis	Posted - 2007.02.14 11:21:00 - [260] do you guys read the dates on posts here? You're replying to a 17 month old thread... ACK!

Tulakh	Posted - 2007.02.21 08:28:00 - [261] Even though its a necro this issue obviously still excists nowadays. There are so many more tools these days then back then so it shouldn't be to hard to fix now. Simple ... 10% of the complexes keeps a always visible stat (example 2 of each type will always be visible). They will "despawn" after they are done and respawn completely at some other place (and to prevent someone locking several up if the "endboss" has not been done it spawns back up like usual). Then yes alot would actually dissapear, but they can be moved into the exploration content so you actually really have to LOOK for one instead of open up map and click it there (or working off a list of known locations). Alot less farming (the few statics are still sensitive for this)


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