Could you imagine starting to play WOW right now and have to grind through all of those expansions just to start playing the game at 90... Then the game only starts right?

Just to be slightly effective it takes about 1.5 years of training.

So all I am asking is what is being done about this huge problem EVE faces?

Who can I talk to about this to make it apparent?

This game is truly great but how does any new player have a chance at experiencing that greatness?

So all I am asking is what is being done about this huge problem EVE faces?

Who can I talk to about this to make it apparent?

This game is truly great but how does any new player have a chance at experiencing that greatness?

As a matter of fact, concerning pvp, you don't want to have too many skill points. Makes for more expensive clones and the "need" to fly more expensive shi(t)ps.

Maybe the OP is dumb but he raises a couple of good point, one being that a new player cannot do much in the first couple of months. You cannot realistically pvp all day long and as you mentioned most of the large entities that accept day 1 toon are community-based.

So they have to fill their day with pve and pve in EVE is horrible, lvl1 missions are really easy but some lvl2s missions will be tricky/impossible to run with poor skills in a cruiser, even with a good fit. I ended up after my first week wondering what i could do... Yes new players can mine and it's even easier now with the venture but that's a very specific gameplay, i would define it as "boring as f*ck". An active new player, that don't like mindless grinding and wants to play Eve maybe 1-2 hours per day just won't have much to do.

Over time the problem solves itself, players are able to do pvp with being podded in the first few seconds, and to run missions/rats/explore effectively. Myself i just went all-in with trading while learning about the community and the game but then again trading is a very specific type of gameplay.


I am not saying that this is a "huge problem" nor do i want newbies to be effective in high-end ships quickly but i think there is room for content here and CCP should work on that. Ofc you can find a charitable carebear that will let you salvage and loot some wrecks in lvl4s... that's not really fun either and you are left with the impression to clean the dishes. And a game that relies on vets'kindness to provide content to newbies... isn't that a flawed design ?

Needs more expletives.

On topic, Games like WoW have an entry barrier for there end game content, which is "gear", "gear" takes alot of time to gather & is a grind, before players are exposed to the end game content (raids) You don't just join WoW as a noob & do endgame content straight away, you have spend time "leveling" & "gear grinding. Fanatical players will rush & spend countless days grinding fast to acheive "geared". for instance my first WoW character took me 2 months to level, and about 3-4 months to gear. to be ready for end-game. there's fanatics that do it in a week.

You can't do that in EVE, the faster you grind isk/mine/LP by missions or w/e, has no correlation between isk & skillqueue.

And that's the key issue, players come from fast paced games where "grind" means "skill" & expect eve to be the same, well it isn't.

It doesn't feel as if there's enough information presented to new players in the game as to what direction they should go in sometimes.

This is a very valid point.
But the SP wall that I am talking about is really damaging the beauty of eve.
For new players this game is very complex. Most new people spend allot of time studying the game.
When they finally connect the dots and find out what they want to do they see the wall and get discouraged.
Until I bought a character at the bazaar the game had the same effect on me.
So much that I wanted to do but I was a year or two away.
Would be great to give some attention for the new players.
Most of eve's population are vets... They are so far past that wall they can't even imagine how it feels.
Alt pilots prove my point. This is the only game I have come across where it's normal to have 2-5 accounts.
That screams that something is the matter.
CCP makes their $ off those people and loose serious $ to new players that quit.

OP, I'm having more fun in this 1.5m SP character than I have ever had in my PvE mains. In fact, I think of Zaps as my main now since my high SP characters just seem stale in comparison.

One of the most important things you can learn about EVE is that the skill point journey is very enjoyable. Sure, a four year old thinks you need to 'get a bigger ship so I can get the baddies' but I realise that small ship PvP is fantastic:

1. Cheap (let's you learn by lots of mistakes)
2. Very fun
3. Arguably harder than large ship PvP due to the short time frame

Remember that skill points does not equate to skill. I can guarantee that a noob who buys a high SP character will die in lots of expensive explosions.

I can comprehend the issue with the "skillpoint wall" for you.
But that sight only causes the inexperience you still "stuck" in.

Of course it-¦s a "makes me game-quitting"-problem if the goal of your 4 pals and you is to mine togehter in maxed out hulks with maxed out orca-support. EvE is a sandbox, the way is goal. You never realy reach the finish line (and none realy will make 1st place).

My first thought after reading the inital post was "not that one again" (topic).
2nd thought was "Buy a time-machine and go back to 2003 and start paying your sub like some of us did".

On more serious thought the grass in 2003 wasnt more green then EvE is today.
Out of my experience EvE was by a LOT more inconvinient to play then nowadays.
Autopilot? Something you can dream about. Mining barges? Earning isk with mining? A balance between shipclasses (splash damage on torpedos was enough to pop frigs!). Anyone remember the "Bring your own minerals"-deals?
A rifter, throw-away-good of today, was like 1m a hull. My first thorax cost 12m.

Life in eve was hard. So it-¦s today - but it-¦s different. Low skillpoints but you know what to do and how to do it? There are plenty corps out there who accept new players with open arms. You can join a mining corp and participate in large mining gangs, for pvp there are plenty of options (from "clean" RvB-perma-war in highsec over lowsec piracy (or faction warfare) to nullsec entities) and wormhole-corps (there are a few corps out there who run the low-class-holes with drake-gangs).

No matter how many skillpoints you have, there will always be that "why didn-¦t i skill this one"-moments.

Keep your personal fun up.

As you don-¦t answer the question on what exactly you want to train for (1-1.5 years) before you can start to actually playing the game here a last note refering to pvp experience.

You want to fly a deimos in pvp? Buy a thorax, fit it like you would fit your deimos. Now buy the thorax and the modules 10 times. Fit them, use them, lose them. After you lost your 10th ship remember how much fun it was to lose those ships (and actually getting experience for the same price). A good thorax pilot anhilates a bad deimos-pilot every day.

TL;DR: HTFU

As a matter of fact, concerning pvp, you don't want to have too many skill points. Makes for more expensive clones and the "need" to fly more expensive shi(t)ps.

That's absurd. Precisely because it's THE OTHER WAY ROUND.

In WoW and similar games, someone at a lower "lower" level has nothing to do against "max level" characters.

In EvE, a 30 days player can consistently DESTROY a veteran player at EVERYTHING. Be it business success, commanding other players or simply 1vs1 PvP.

In EvE, your success is determined by your numbers, talent and preparation, and MUCH LESS BY TIME SPENT SUBSCRIBED than in ANY other games out there.

I will say it again this post is about new players and the 'SP wall".
Go read one of my earlier replies about roles. Maybe then you will understand what I mean :).

I agree that the SP system is broken!
But I don't recognize what Hefty describes. I have been around for some time now, and every now and then some noob (less then 4 years) comes by and shoots me down .

How is this possible? I mean I most likely have more SP then him, I think it would only be fair if, whenever someone initiate combat a SP check was made. The person with lower SP should get a x% miss chance depending on how big the difference in SP is...

It's only fair to us old timers!

This statement is completely untrue, but it is definitely the case that this perception exists.

That's a marketing problem more than a game mechanics problem, though. They definitely should do more to address the erroneous belief that you need 1.5 years of training to be slightly effective.

I am curious: What is it that you/your friends were interested in doing that simply could not be done without 1.5 years of training? Someone else asked you this on the first page, and you didn't really furnish a response.

This isn't the game for you.

...blather...

Just to be slightly effective it takes about 1.5 years of training... So I brought 4 of my friends in which all payed for 1 month + trial. They loved the first month of eve and into the seconds month they all saw just how truly pathetic they were in terms of SP. Everything they wanted to do was years of training away.

There are two sides to this problem - like people have already hinted at. The first aspect is goal and the second is the journey.

If people see the goal as amassing skill points to get into the big ships without there being anything worth doing in between then yes, that's a huge problem. Some people might even see that there is fun stuff to do before they get the skill points to do the 'big' stuff. The character bazaar is the solution for those people. Yes, it's costly and as such not the 'best' solution. Is there a different and better solution to allow new people quickly get to that point? Maybe, by removing the prerequisite skills so that you could train titan (or whatever) right from the start. Well, they could but it'd just be compromising the 'feel' of a skill system. You know how to fly a titan but not a frigate ... what's wrong with you?

So the answer to this question:
- There is value to taking the time to train ... represented by skill points
- There is stuff you can do for fun while you attain your skill point goals, the character bazaar is an alternative for those that don't want to wait.


Forums, run for CSM. CCP does listen to the community. If you have an alternative solution and support that's the best route to success.



Yes - like I said before. No, you will never get a new character into the skill point heights of the older characters. But the skill point system also levels out. Put my character in an assault frigate against a 10m skill point character and there could be no discernible difference in the number of EFFECTIVE skill points. Sure, I could jump into a t3 cruiser, carrier, or something and have a lot more effective skill points. I'm just saying - once you pick a ship to fly you are leaving a LOT of skill points behind.

The only difference between a new player and an old player are options. You say that it takes too long to acquire some options and you might be absolutely correct. But I say there is also value in having those kinds of options. I've gone through the phase where there isn't anything really the 'need' for anything new to train. This, in my opinion is worse than having long term skill training options.

There is no problem but there is things being done to help new guys like tiericide so t1 ships are nearly as good as t2



CSM



Specialization dont try to do everything. Join a new player friendly corp.


I build characters to sell and aslong as you dont try to do everyting with one character you dont have to train to long. janna pw 123 thats a 6 months tengu i did.


evemon plans download


freighter 32 days
tengu 111 days
cap 6months
manifacture/research 60 days
P.I. 45days

The cap character is the basic you need but the rest are solid. My 3m sp alt karma kills hulks fine kills . My trader alt only has 3m sp and my pve alt that i was using only had 10m sp and i made loads of isk running ded sites.

OP, go back to WoW.

This game is not for you, it is only for MATURE players :P

The only difference between a new player and an old player are options.