As a matter of fact, concerning pvp, you don't want to have too many skill points. Makes for more expensive clones and the "need" to fly more expensive shi(t)ps.

My PvP alt stopped training at 15m SP, and he doesn't even have perfect skills in anything. That's roughly 7 months of training though.

Well, that's sort of the thing - there really isn't a direction they "should" go. It's entirely dependent on what you want to do.

Also, I think a lot of people get hung up on flying a given ship or ship class as being something they want to do. New players will frequently say something like, "I want to fly a battleship," instead of, "I want to run level 4 missions," whereas older players generally recognize that ships are frequently-interchangeable tools for accomplishing whatever it is you actually want to do, and not, themselves, the thing that you do.

I've been playing for just over a month now, and I have to admit, the skill system is still a bit boggling and arcane to me. I can investigate simple questions such as "What does it take to fit T2 guns on my boat?" and get an answer and follow it, only to find out when I get there, I still can't fit T2 guns on my boat because I don't have enough cpu/power/smurfberries/etc. Trying to figure out what skills I need to do various things typically ends in me finding a guide someone wrote, and hoping it's somewhat accurate. It doesn't feel as if there's enough information presented to new players in the game as to what direction they should go in sometimes.

Well, that's sort of the thing - there really isn't a direction they "should" go. It's entirely dependent on what you want to do.

Also, I think a lot of people get hung up on flying a given ship or ship class as being something they want to do. New players will frequently say something like, "I want to fly a battleship," instead of, "I want to run level 4 missions," whereas older players generally recognize that ships are frequently-interchangeable tools for accomplishing whatever it is you actually want to do, and not, themselves, the thing that you do.

There is no "SP wall".

Oof. I give up.

Thread summary: Dunning-Kruger poster-child has all the answers, will copy+paste them until you agree.

Since you missed it.
This is the wall that I speak of.
My point is this...

As the game progresses the "SP wall" keeps on getting bigger.
When you play a game you don't want to stick to one specific role and tunnel vision it to be good.
You want to experience multiple roles and see different sides of everything.
In eve you simply cannot do that.
Mining for new players is the worst thing I could imagine for them...
Sitting there mining with low skills when they are simply fueling the bigger players.
To be good at mining and actually breach the wall to be effective you need mining skills and refinery skills.
That's 2 totally different skill paths that makes the wall even bigger.
Now this is only an example... So say this new player gets sick of mining. Guess what?
You are stuck with mining since it would open up a third path where you have to now start training.
That makes the wall even bigger. You want to still train mining and refining to be good but now you want to pvp or run missions. That increase in roles makes the SP training 3x harder... You have to step back and see just how useless new players feel. Now this new player wanting to run mission has to train weapon skills, tanking skills,core skills and piloting skills. Each one of those paths makes the wall tremendously bigger.

I guess I should have explained my post better but it would have been the biggest wall of text ever.
I really hope that I am making sense.

OP is just unexperienced player.

I started playing 3 months ago and I don't feel that there is any "SP wall"

I have fun, can do almost anything and I haven't even joined corp yet. (Will do soon)

I didn't miss it. What I'm asserting is that it's poppycock, and that, with respect to Eve and the many nuances of its interconnected systems, you are incompetent to the point that you lack even the vaguest notion of the depths of that incompetence.

This leads you to believe that you hold the solutions to what you, in your incompetence, have perceived to be problems.

As an example: You clearly have yet to grasp the fact that the opportunity cost inherent in the skill system is a major driving force behind the functionality of the Eve economy.

Hasn't even come REMOTELY close to dawning on you, yet, that homogeneity in skill training - which is really what you're promoting here - would, by definition, kill off a huge portion of economic incentive. When everyone can do everything, nobody needs anyone else to do anything. If it's trivial for me train a combat-miner-industrial pilot, why the **** wouldn't I do that? And once I've done that, why would I ever buy minerals on the market? Or ships for that matter? I can mine on my own. I can build on my own. I can fight on my own. What do I need an economy for, now?

The "problem" you are complaining about is a feature upon which the ENTIRE rest of the game is completely reliant. It is, literally, a requirement that not everyone gets to participate in every role on a whim. It was built that way, ON PURPOSE, and you - some arrogant, know-nothing scrub with a bought character - are sitting here trying to tell us that, for the good of the game, it must be changed to suit you and your impatient friends, without even a moment's consideration for why it was built that way, or what impact such a change would have outside of the tiny, insignificant portion of the game you're familiar with.

And for the love of god, please spare us any more of this insipid nonsense about new player retention. The game is currently enjoying the highest PCU numbers it has seen since the Great Monocle Debacle, so that argument is a non-starter.

Earlier, I was humoring you. I'm quite certain that, short of hopping in a capital ship, whatever the **** your friends wanted to do, it would not have taken them "years" of training to do it. Had you furnished an actual reply to the question (instead of copy-pasting the same ignorant, uninformed drivel over and over and over again), I probably could have given you realistic time estimates, as well as a host of intermediate activities for fun and profit to be done along the way.

I didn't have to read the second sentence to realize that you don't understand the whole reason for my post.
The four friends that I mentioned are all gone. All took different roles. All played differently.
All quit and gone because of one reason.
Either you are trailer trash or have no friends.
Since you took the cat out of the bag and started with the insults.
They were new players not old eve geysers...
Please get with the fact that this post is for new players.
Jou dom vokken poes.

You're right OP. No helpful ideas in the last six pages at all, it's all hopeless, might as well give up now and cancel my subscription.

You can do almost anything?
There is so many roles in eve if you trained to be able to do "everything" in 3 months you have one terrible skill list.
You might be able to mine or pvp that doesn't mean it's worth the amount of time you spend.
To be effective at even one role it takes a few months of training.
Then you are for example a 5/10 effective logistics support.
That's only one role to be a 5/10 and it would take months.

well if you want to do everything perfect it will take you around 20 years to train

Let's end this thread as there is no hope.

I've been playing for just over a month now, and I have to admit, the skill system is still a bit boggling and arcane to me. I can investigate simple questions such as "What does it take to fit T2 guns on my boat?" and get an answer and follow it, only to find out when I get there, I still can't fit T2 guns on my boat because I don't have enough cpu/power/smurfberries/etc. Trying to figure out what skills I need to do various things typically ends in me finding a guide someone wrote, and hoping it's somewhat accurate. It doesn't feel as if there's enough information presented to new players in the game as to what direction they should go in sometimes.

The four friends that I mentioned are all gone. All took different roles. All played differently.
All quit and gone because of one reason.

To get the core skills to an OK-ish level takes about 1.5 years.
That's like STANDARD level certs.

Also "subs are at an all time high".
You mean everyone has like 1-5 alts.
Speak to some miners and find out how many alts they have...

I would estimate 30-50% of subs are unique players.
Also the whole reason why people have alts is to train different skill paths.
This is the only game I have ever come across that people have this many alts.
I mean CCP promotes it. "start your sidekick".

So all I am asking is what is being done about this huge problem EVE faces?

Who can I talk to about this to make it apparent?

This game is truly great but how does any new player have a chance at experiencing that greatness?

Could you imagine starting to play WOW right now and have to grind through all of those expansions just to start playing the game at 90... Then the game only starts right?

So all I am asking is what is being done about this huge problem EVE faces?

Who can I talk to about this to make it apparent?

This game is truly great but how does any new player have a chance at experiencing that greatness?

I truly want to see this game grow so help me talk to the right people.

Ok, you win...

I've been having an unbeleive time!

Just as i was thinking of leaving, i made a quick and cheap incursus fit and flew into low sec for some plexing.

This time, i ran just before getting killed burning ship intact! I warped to a nearby station in the panic and managed to find some player wrecks to loot :)

finally, in my panic, I found myself in what I think was Caldari high sec space where I got podded and found out about kill rights :) Hopefully someone will buy mine!

I'm all subbed up and I got a plex (although I don't quite have the funds to sell it yet!) and I think i've realised a lot of what you all have been saying. This is a game of investing time. If i want a quick blast, i can go to sc2 for that. This is more about playing YOUR game and building up to what you want to do. I kept feeling it was all a grind to the next big thing but that's all part of the journey

I'm finding the certificates helpful and i'm having a surprising amount of fun working the Markets as well.

A little over the initial learning curve and the horizon is in sight

Thanks again

Veda

Bolded certain part for clarity. See, there are newbs who "get it".