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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Namdor
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
17
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Posted - 2013.03.18 15:35:00 -
[361] - Quote
Oh, come on. She's basically crying about the fact that an RPG has character progression. Guys, it does not get much more obvious than this. |
Inkarr Hashur
Sine Nobilitatis
252
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Posted - 2013.03.18 16:10:00 -
[362] - Quote
Namdor wrote:Oh, come on. She's basically crying about the fact that an RPG has character progression. Guys, it does not get much more obvious than this.
And yet mods refused to lock the thread and revoke posting privileges. |
Eve Amada
Lightspeed Enterprises Fidelas Constans
20
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Posted - 2013.03.18 16:54:00 -
[363] - Quote
Please CCP for once locked a thread that is:
No Content Trolling Off Subject
or just make all the whiners (players with fewer skills than others that complain about it over & over) happy by giving them max skills in everything.
This thread needed to die 19 pages ago :P |
Velicitia
Arma Artificer
1253
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 17:43:00 -
[364] - Quote
Eve Amada wrote:Please CCP for once locked a thread that is:
No Content Trolling Off Subject
or just make all the whiners (players with fewer skills than others that complain about it over & over) happy by giving them max skills in everything.
This thread needed to die 19 pages ago :P
I'd agree ... but then they'll whine that they just got their blinged avatar destroyed by a bunch of people in noobships in 0.4 somewhere... One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |
Prisoner No14
The Random Tangent
17
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Posted - 2013.03.18 18:40:00 -
[365] - Quote
i think the easy fix would not be being able to train 1 char in 2 different specializations. Maybe being able to train 2 chars per account would work? but then again for someone like me i would just train a char up to sell as my second char as i already have 3 accounts. I agree that it took me some time to get this char up to par on my standards. Hey good things come to those that wait and have big pockets. I see no reason why you should not be able to train 2 chars at once on any given account it is not like you can play both at the same time anyways. ccp will never make this change because they get half or more of their revenue from alt accounts. |
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus Aeterna Anima
52
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Posted - 2013.03.18 19:17:00 -
[366] - Quote
Namdor wrote:Oh, come on. She's basically crying about the fact that an RPG has character progression. Guys, it does not get much more obvious than this.
Lol, you're really too dimwitted to get even the basics.
People are complaining that character progression is based on subscription time ALONE (modulo mappings/implants) and that the most efficient way of skilling a character to a specific goal is by NOT playing.
Personally I'm only annoyed by the fact that I'm forced into a discussion with a halfwit like you, who eats all the lies that they are fed about an 'automatic catch up' mechanism via the non-linear SP requirements or profession plateauing. The math disputing the former has already been presented (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2717029#post2717029) but of course a halfwit wouldn't understand the mechanisms.
As for the later, anyone who considers more than a year a reasonable time limit for plateauing a SPECIALIZED profession as PART of character progression must be living behind some moon where there is no competition over player attention.
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Inkarr Hashur
Sine Nobilitatis
252
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 19:24:00 -
[367] - Quote
I wasn't aware the size of your wallet or your hangar was no longer considered an aspect of character progression.
I guess I should just stop logging in. |
Namdor
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
23
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Posted - 2013.03.18 19:29:00 -
[368] - Quote
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:WHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!
There, there. Can I get you some warm milk? |
Frank Millar
No Self Esteem Malefic Aspects
124
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 22:20:00 -
[369] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:WOW and wanting to try out a healer (or any other class)-- roll new toon and have at it. oh, but you can't go out with your L35 mates, because you're L1. go find newbs to run with.
EVE and wanting to try out a logi (or any other "class") -- set Remote Armor Repair Systems (or Shield Emission Systems) to train L1 ... should take about 20 minutes or so. Grab a T1 logi frig or cruiser, fly with your mates. Good post.
I was just playing around in Evemon to see what it would take a new Amarr character to get in a T1 fitted Augoror.
No Attribute remap, no Attribute enhancing Implants, following the Certificates: slightly less than 5 days and 18 hours.
You'll need that time to get the few millions of isk for the Books, Ship and Modules anyway.
And then build from there. |
Ryuu Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2013.03.18 23:30:00 -
[370] - Quote
This thread is REALLY going places....
die thread...just DIE already... Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
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Velicitia
Arma Artificer
1260
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 00:14:00 -
[371] - Quote
Frank Millar wrote:Velicitia wrote:WOW and wanting to try out a healer (or any other class)-- roll new toon and have at it. oh, but you can't go out with your L35 mates, because you're L1. go find newbs to run with.
EVE and wanting to try out a logi (or any other "class") -- set Remote Armor Repair Systems (or Shield Emission Systems) to train L1 ... should take about 20 minutes or so. Grab a T1 logi frig or cruiser, fly with your mates. Good post. I was just playing around in Evemon to see what it would take a new Amarr character to get in a T1 fitted Augoror. No Attribute remap, no Attribute enhancing Implants, following the Certificates: slightly less than 5 days and 18 hours. You'll need that time to get the few millions of isk for the Books, Ship and Modules anyway. And then build from there.
and that's jumping into cruisers ... if you stick with the Inquisitor, you can jump in it in a few hours from being a freshly minted capsuleer (as you'll need the mechanic prereqs, but still you're getting them anyway). One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
455
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Posted - 2013.03.19 05:15:00 -
[372] - Quote
OMG how did I miss the first 3 pages of this EPIC topic, WHY did not a single person mail me or say anything.... Gawd lol |
Frank Millar
No Self Esteem Malefic Aspects
126
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Posted - 2013.03.19 09:03:00 -
[373] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Frank Millar wrote:Velicitia wrote:WOW and wanting to try out a healer (or any other class)-- roll new toon and have at it. oh, but you can't go out with your L35 mates, because you're L1. go find newbs to run with.
EVE and wanting to try out a logi (or any other "class") -- set Remote Armor Repair Systems (or Shield Emission Systems) to train L1 ... should take about 20 minutes or so. Grab a T1 logi frig or cruiser, fly with your mates. Good post. I was just playing around in Evemon to see what it would take a new Amarr character to get in a T1 fitted Augoror. No Attribute remap, no Attribute enhancing Implants, following the Certificates: slightly less than 5 days and 18 hours. You'll need that time to get the few millions of isk for the Books, Ship and Modules anyway. And then build from there. and that's jumping into cruisers ... if you stick with the Inquisitor, you can jump in it in a few hours from being a freshly minted capsuleer (as you'll need the mechanic prereqs, but still you're getting them anyway). Indeed. Still, I was pleasantly surprised. |
Velicitia
Arma Artificer
1263
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 11:05:00 -
[374] - Quote
Frank Millar wrote:Indeed. Still, I was pleasantly surprised.
you learn to EFT warrior like a boss when you fly with rookies... One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |
Juone Bang
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 11:32:00 -
[375] - Quote
What I would like to see thought about is making Engineering IV the requirement for Thermodynamics I. It's a huge 4 day wall if a new player wants to pvp right away. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
22
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Posted - 2013.03.20 02:49:00 -
[376] - Quote
Juone Bang wrote:What I would like to see thought about is making Engineering IV the requirement for Thermodynamics I. It's a huge 4 day wall if a new player wants to pvp right away.
I have it on good authority that a great many people PvP without having ever trained Thermodynamics at all. Silly I know, but they seem to do fine none the less. |
Nexas Alduin
TriFlexure Void-Legion
1
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Posted - 2013.03.20 08:35:00 -
[377] - Quote
I like how I've been playing less than 6 months and likely have more WH experience than the OP's purchased character likely does. Threads like this make me happy I was able to see that there was a lot more to Eve than SP. Between knowledge (thanks EveUni), experience (thanks asshats that taught me the value of warp stabs and d-scan), and risk (thanks risk/reward investment philosophy and portfolio management?) I think I've not only learned to become a better pilot in Eve but have also taken a different approach to the real world as well. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
102
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 13:18:00 -
[378] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:Juone Bang wrote:What I would like to see thought about is making Engineering IV the requirement for Thermodynamics I. It's a huge 4 day wall if a new player wants to pvp right away. I have it on good authority that a great many people PvP without having ever trained Thermodynamics at all. Silly I know, but they seem to do fine none the less.
Yea most of the people I know started to PVP long before they got Thermodynamics. It helps but so does every other skill in the game. The biggest problem with new players starting PVP in Eve is they try to do it solo. You can solo but with the support and knowledge of other players your experience will be much better.
The life cycle of many new Eve players...
Downloads game and starts playing. After a day or so buys the most expensive ship that they can get into but don't have skills to fly. Fits it with random modules. Jumps into lowsec... Wait... What's going on?? What does "Clone Activated" mean? How did i die so fast??? My ship had Hull, Armor, and Shield tank! This game is so unfair! Rage quits and goes back to WoW!... Smiles thinking "I may die but I rez in the graveyard and I still has my stuff!" |
Kodama Ikari
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
34
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Posted - 2013.03.20 14:13:00 -
[379] - Quote
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote: People are complaining that character progression is based on subscription time ALONE (modulo mappings/implants) and that the most efficient way of skilling a character to a specific goal is by NOT playing.
But this has been a defining feature of the game since launch, and appeals to new players and old alike. Sorry there's no level cap that you can hit in 2 days so you can start the 'gear grind' over again.
And I wasn't aware that logging in hurt your sp/hour. Some first-hand PI tips |
Namdor
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 15:34:00 -
[380] - Quote
Kodama Ikari wrote:Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote: People are complaining that character progression is based on subscription time ALONE (modulo mappings/implants) and that the most efficient way of skilling a character to a specific goal is by NOT playing.
But this has been a defining feature of the game since launch, and appeals to new players and old alike. Sorry there's no level cap that you can hit in 2 days so you can start the 'gear grind' over again. And I wasn't aware that logging in hurt your sp/hour.
But... but it's not fair!
Some people have been here for a long time, so they've already trained a bunch of stuff. How can new players possibly be expected to spend the same amount of time training the same stuff? It's preposterous!
I mean, good for Mr. BetaPlayer, spending the last 10 years accumulating 200 million skillpoints, but he has them now, and I don't, and it's not fair that he gets to have things that I don't have, so obviously the only solution is to just give me stuff so I don't quit. |
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Orlacc
332
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Posted - 2013.03.20 16:58:00 -
[381] - Quote
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:Namdor wrote:Oh, come on. She's basically crying about the fact that an RPG has character progression. Guys, it does not get much more obvious than this. Lol, you're really too dimwitted to get even the basics........ but of course a halfwit wouldn't understand the mechanisms.
I thought name calling was grounds for thread lock. "Measure Twice, Cut Once." |
Signal11th
The Retirement Club
932
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 17:00:00 -
[382] - Quote
Go someone lock this thread please.
OP Please just go play something else, I actually enjoy the fact that with my limited time I have to play I can still keep my SP in line with some neckbeard nerd who can bash buttons all fecking day long because he has no life no girlfriend and and has shares in Kleenex.
You can be useful in EVE in less than a week ask that of any "other" MMO.
I personally couldn't give a monkies that 4 out of 5 new players quit, that just saves me from having to block another 4 idiots in local.
*Goes off muttering to himself* God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster. |
Aglais
Liberation Army
190
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 21:19:00 -
[383] - Quote
The thing was though that battlecruisers were so outrageously OP compared to everything else that they were the only thing worth using. Due to the tiericide effort, especially now that it's effectively clipped the wings of battlecruisers and given them more defined roles (though completely smacking the Drake's utility- It only has anything resembling DPS if it's using kinetic missiles) people are using cruisers, which need less SP investment to fly, and also frigates more AFAIK. The game shouldn't have needed you to be in battlecruisers in order to get ahead. But that's been lessened again by tiericide.
I do think there's a problem however with how little money you can possibly make with a frigate; you should be able to, when your skills are good, take much riskier missions with frigates that will net good money. Unless this already exists as faction warfare or something. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1088
|
Posted - 2013.03.20 21:51:00 -
[384] - Quote
However few skill points you have, there is always something enjoyable to do in Eve.
Just use your skill points to have some fun. This is not a signature. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
8239
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 07:59:00 -
[385] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:However few skill points you have, there is always something enjoyable to do in Eve.
Just use your skill points to have some fun.
How can I have fun when I know there are people with more skillpoints than me???? Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
54
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 10:33:00 -
[386] - Quote
Kodama Ikari wrote:Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote: People are complaining that character progression is based on subscription time ALONE (modulo mappings/implants) and that the most efficient way of skilling a character to a specific goal is by NOT playing.
But this has been a defining feature of the game since launch, and appeals to new players and old alike. Sorry there's no level cap that you can hit in 2 days so you can start the 'gear grind' over again.
It would have been the same defining feature if someone had invested a little bit of brains towards future developments (like, say, the game being around for 7 years...) and implemented a limited catch up mechanism.
Different approaches that come to mind:
- from the start for every potential 1M SP without any mapping bonus (i.e. worst possible rate a player then could have had) they should have moved x% into a speed up pool for pilots newly created. You could then define ways to access that speed up pool, be it via double SP generation and/or via specific in-game achievements and/or specific missions until that pool is used up. Obviously i'd prefer the more active approach via achievements or missions.
- round out the tutorial (at increased difficulty) by giving baseline skills once certain checkpoints are reached. For example something slightly above the size of the lvl1 epic arc could give you electronics V. This could be combined with a specialist missions/achievement set where you chose ONE specialist profession and at the end of the achievement/mission set (something in the timeframe of 1 month at 2h daily invested, minimum) you end up with Vs in the defining skills for that set (for example scanning skills). To make this less of a free give away, part of it could be in low sec.
Quote: And I wasn't aware that logging in hurt your sp/hour.
I didn't write login, i wrote PLAYING.
There's a major difference between a capital pilot you can raise with only logging in to fill the skill queue and one that is played actively flying subcaps and making ISK and thus has to learn necessary skills for fitting requirements when they are needed, not when the (then 100% efficient) mapping is opportune. That can easily cost 50-100 days relative to the final goal.
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Velicitia
Arma Artificer
1273
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 12:49:00 -
[387] - Quote
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote: - from the start for every potential 1M SP without any mapping bonus (i.e. worst possible rate a player then could have had) they should have moved x% into a speed up pool for pilots newly created. You could then define ways to access that speed up pool, be it via double SP generation and/or via specific in-game achievements and/or specific missions until that pool is used up. Obviously i'd prefer the more active approach via achievements or missions.
- round out the tutorial (at increased difficulty) by giving baseline skills once certain checkpoints are reached. For example something slightly above the size of the lvl1 epic arc could give you electronics V. This could be combined with a specialist missions/achievement set where you chose ONE specialist profession and at the end of the achievement/mission set (something in the timeframe of 1 month at 2h daily invested, minimum) you end up with Vs in the defining skills for that set (for example scanning skills). To make this less of a free give away, part of it could be in low sec.
Because this wouldn't be exploited at all ... One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
54
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 13:16:00 -
[388] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote: - from the start for every potential 1M SP without any mapping bonus (i.e. worst possible rate a player then could have had) they should have moved x% into a speed up pool for pilots newly created. You could then define ways to access that speed up pool, be it via double SP generation and/or via specific in-game achievements and/or specific missions until that pool is used up. Obviously i'd prefer the more active approach via achievements or missions.
- round out the tutorial (at increased difficulty) by giving baseline skills once certain checkpoints are reached. For example something slightly above the size of the lvl1 epic arc could give you electronics V. This could be combined with a specialist missions/achievement set where you chose ONE specialist profession and at the end of the achievement/mission set (something in the timeframe of 1 month at 2h daily invested, minimum) you end up with Vs in the defining skills for that set (for example scanning skills). To make this less of a free give away, part of it could be in low sec.
Because this wouldn't be exploited at all ...
How could it even be exploited?
Variant 1 would give you a x%*75M SP (roughly 7*365*2h*1200SP/h) buffer to be used up over time, either actively or passively depending on implementation for a character created today. (Retroactive implementation might be discussion-worthy up to a limit, buffer would have to be lower due to the very nature of it) Since there are already players with 200M SP out there you can see how conservative the approach already is, even independent of x, which could easily be as small as 10-20% and still make a difference for newbs.
Variant 2 would give a very specific boost that can be finetuned by the developers easily. Also, for the first time it would give truth to the concept that you can really catch up within a realistic time frame by specializing. By the active nature alone, how would it be exploitable?
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Namdor
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
31
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Posted - 2013.03.21 15:22:00 -
[389] - Quote
Don't forget money, and stuff in general, either.
I mean, Entity has been snapping up rares since day one. Did I ever have a chance at an imperial apocalyps? NO. And how am I supposed to compete with someone who has been enjoying the power of compound interest for the last decade?
This is why Eve is dying. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
24
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Posted - 2013.03.21 15:31:00 -
[390] - Quote
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:- from the start for every potential 1M SP without any mapping bonus (i.e. worst possible rate a player then could have had) they should have moved x% into a speed up pool for pilots newly created. You could then define ways to access that speed up pool, be it via double SP generation and/or via specific in-game achievements and/or specific missions until that pool is used up. Obviously i'd prefer the more active approach via achievements or missions.
This would let people train opposite mapped skills at perfect speed without using a remap. That's bad. You should have to choose between perfect training speeds in one area vs reasonable training speed in all areas. Unless you are taking lots of high rank skills to 5 right off the bat general remaps work just fine for the first few months. Only when you start going for T2 ships and weapons do specialized remaps really start to matter.
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote: - round out the tutorial (at increased difficulty) by giving baseline skills once certain checkpoints are reached. For example something slightly above the size of the lvl1 epic arc could give you electronics V. This could be combined with a specialist missions/achievement set where you chose ONE specialist profession and at the end of the achievement/mission set (something in the timeframe of 1 month at 2h daily invested, minimum) you end up with Vs in the defining skills for that set (for example scanning skills). To make this less of a free give away, part of it could be in low sec.
There are already too many scanning alts, market alts, freighter alts, mission alts, FW alts, and research alts. We don't need people who are able to play for 14+ hours a day churning out 5 more a week per person.
Any game mechanic that allows you to gain SP faster by completing quests or otherwise spending time logged in is bad mkay? If people want to be able to grind skills they can and should go play WoW. The fact that this makes EVE have less mass market appeal is what what makes EVE a good game. New toons are perfectly capable of contributing to pretty much any situation. The early days of Goonswarm and more recently the success of Brave Newbies Inc prove that handily. |
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